April 15, 2025 • 48 mins
"You're not a qualified person." With these dismissive words, the Canadian government repeatedly denied women access to the Senate based on a narrow interpretation of constitutional language. But in 1927, five determined women gathered over tea in Edmonton to launch a legal challenge that would reverberate throughout the British Empire.
The story begins with Lizzie Cyr, a sex worker arrested for vagrancy in Calgary, whose case inadvertently exposed the precarious legal standing of women in public office. This leads us to the Famous Five: Emily Murphy (the first female magistrate in the British Empire), Louise McKinney (temperance advocate and women's suffrage champion), Henrietta Edwards (legal expert called "Otter Woman" by Indigenous communities), Irene Parlby (rural women's advocate and cabinet minister), and Nellie McClung (fiery novelist and suffragist).
Facing constant opposition from men who disrupted their political meetings, these women cleverly rebranded their gatherings as "Pink Teas" – social events men typically avoided. Their petition asked a simple question: does the word "persons" in the constitution include women? When Canada's Supreme Court ruled against them in 1928, they appealed to Britain's Privy Council, which overturned the decision in 1929. Lord Sankey's landmark ruling established the "living tree doctrine" – the principle that constitutions must evolve with changing times.
Yet the Famous Five's legacy carries a troubling contradiction. While fighting brilliantly for women's legal recognition, all five supported eugenics – advocating for policies that led to thousands being sterilized without consent in Alberta until 1972. Their story reminds us that historical figures rarely fit into neat categories of hero or villain, often reflecting both the progressive and regressive ideas of their time.
Listen and decide for yourself how we should remember these complex women who fundamentally changed the legal standing of women while simultaneously promoting ideas we now recognize as deeply harmful.
https://www.famous5.ca/
The Famous 5 and the infamous Lizzie
By Diane Woollard
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC80555/
The Canadian Encyclopedia by Catherine Cavanaugh, Susanna McLeod, Mary E. Hallett, Eliane Leslau Silverman, Susan Jackel
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/henrietta-louise-edwards#Eugenics
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Oh, hey there, oh hey there.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
How's it going, you?
Went first I did.
It's a rarity, sometimes I'mallowed.
That's rude.
I mean you usually jumptogether like there, there,
there, there there there, there,there, there, there there.
So yeah, so we are about towhat.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
You always fail to introduce us.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
When you go first.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
This is why I go first.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
That's Kate.
I'm Bradley.
We're the History Buffoons.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yes we are, yes, and if you have not yet listened to
the Lizzie Sear episode, yes.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Part one.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That is part one to our story.
This is going to be part two,and we have a special drink to
commemorate this part too.
Yeah, so I'm excited to getinto this and figure out why I
got the drinks that we got.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Figure out more why, and also to uh conclude our
story about Lizzie Sears.
Lizzie Sears.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, and the, the big government, the major
development that is happeninglizzie sear anyways okay and so
here we go yeah, okay, so I gotus a pink drink.
Pink drink no, it is notstarbucks pink drink, which I
(01:39):
don't even know what that is,but is that a thing?
It is a thing.
Apparently it was on theirhidden menu and then people
loved it so much that they putit on their actual menu menu I
don't know what it is I don'tcare what I got is sea grumps
escapes jamaican me happy it iscalled jamaican me happy um.
It is from rochester, new york,and it is essentially a wine
(02:00):
cooler.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
It's pretty much, pretty much a wine cooler so
it's funny, because wine coolersis a misnomer, it's malt based.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
It is malt.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So it's more like a beer than a wine cooler, but
they're just Bartles and James.
Back in the day they used to bewine based and anyways, they're
still considered a wine cooler,even though they're an
alternative malt beverage thesedays.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Okay so.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Tell the folks what we have the pink drink in A mug,
a tea mug.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
It's a pink drink in a tea mug.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And there's significance to this.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yes, no, I just wanted to shoot the shit and do
something crazy.
Oh so what'd?
You do today organize the pinkdrink oh, okay no, we're gonna
cheers, we're gonna drinkthrough the, the very large
teacup that I have, because I donot have small teacups like you
, wouldn't?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
the british lands, cheers, cheers, that's so sweet
I've never I don't think I'veever had one of these before I
used I used to sell a lot ofthese yeah it was one of the uh,
I'd say top, top flavors that Isold it's pretty good actually
(03:23):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
It's not bad, okay.
So, as a brief recap of lastweek's episode on lizzie sear
yes, so she was arrested forvagrancy.
Yes, um, which is a sex worker.
Um, that was the title backthen.
Yeah, in 1970, 17, and sheended up in front of the
magistrate.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Alice jameson yeah, who shouldn't have been but was,
but isn't now she is yes and sothis is all taking place in
calgary, alberta.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
yes, so back then they mostly use vagrancy laws to
control prostitution right andbecause of the way society
blames sex workers and theirgrowing fear of stis, lizzie got
a pretty rough deal fromJameson Sure.
Now remember, jameson was onlythe second woman magistrate in
the British Empire at this point.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
David Bright, a historian, points out that there
is this deep-seated sexism inhow the law dealt with sex
workers.
Sure, and he argues thatJameson really jumped the gun,
sentencing Lizzie to six monthsof hard labor without even
letting her lawyer like properlydefend her.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, she just said this is what you get.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, and Lizzie's lawyer wasn't having it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, no, and can you blame him?
Yes, he was trying to do hisjob Do his job and he liked
doing his job.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So he appealed the case and one of his arguments
was that Jameson, being a woman,didn't have the legal right to
be a magistrate.
But the Alberta Court of Repealshot that down, saying
basically that there was nolegal reason women shouldn't
hold office.
That decision, along with otherexamples of women in public
roles, really helped pave theway for this next part of the
(05:01):
story which is thecha which isthe famous five and the persons
case.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Famous fives and the person case Persons, persons.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
As in multiple persons, oh persons.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Okay, gotcha.
So we're going to talk aboutthe famous five.
They are five women.
Okay, so I'm going to just kindof go do-do-do-do-do and kind
of like explain each one of them.
The first one you mightremember from our first story,
sure, and it's okay if you don'tI will mention who.
She is Good, so the firstfamous five is Emily Murphy.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Emily Murphy lived from 1868 to 1933.
Okay, she was a suffragist, areformer, a writer.
She was most remarkable in thatshe became the first female
magistrate in the entire britishempire in 1916 wow, where
allison jameson was the secondcorrect, yep, okay.
(05:55):
So one of the famous, five isone is the first female
magistrate 1916, and one was theother one, the second one um, I
don't know when she wasappointed, but the story took
place in 1917.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Okay, yeah, all right , yes.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
So before that, Emily Murphy really focused on
getting women the right to ownproperty.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
She pushed hard for what became the Married Women's
Protective Act in Alberta in1911, which gave wives and kids
some security if their husbandsend up leaving.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And her work as a judge and her advocacy for women
and children made her prettyfamous across Canada.
Right, and because of all that,a lot of people wanted her to
be appointed to the Senate, ofcourse, but the federal
government said women aren'tqualified persons.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Super polite way of saying no yeah, you suck now,
emily murphy is not one to backdown well, good for her she has
the same quote whenever I don'tknow whether to fight or not, I
fight, end quote I know that'ssupposed to be like moving, but
no shit, but okay.
(07:05):
Famous five, number two, louiseMcKinley.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Louise McKinley.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Nope Louise McKinney.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Louise McKinney.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Lived 1868 to 1931.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
She was a dedicated organizer and a huge supporter
of the Women's ChristianTemperance Union Okay, a group
that was really focused onprotecting women and children by
getting rid of alcohol.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Oh, as I'm about to take a sip of one.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Let's do that right now.
Let's cheers to prohibition.
Louise was known for beingdetermined, hardworking and not
afraid to speak her mind.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Good.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Her activism played a big role in getting women the
right to vote in Alberta, andshe was also a major force
behind Prohibition, which wentinto effect in 1916, though it
was later repealed we all knowYep.
She also fought for the DowerAct in Alberta, which gave women
the right to stop their homesfrom being sold or mortgaged
without them knowing, because,holy crap, apparently you can.
Bardo, which gave women theright to stop their homes from
being sold or mortgaged withoutthem knowing Because, holy crap,
(08:07):
apparently you can just loseyour house.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
That's wild.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Famous five, number three yes.
Henrietta Edwards.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Henrietta, mm-hmm.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
She lived from 1849 to 1931.
She was the oldest out of thefive.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Do all of these die in, like the early 30s?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Good Lord no, okay.
Out of the five, do all ofthese die in like the early 30s?
Um good lord?
No, okay.
Good, uh, she um henriettaedwards was an artist and a
legal expert of sorts, um bothmen and women would come to her
for advice on legal matters,especially those affecting women
and children makes sense in1990, nope, in 1893 she played a
key role in founding theNational Council of Women of
Canada.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
It's still around today and it's working to
improve life for women, familiesand society as a whole.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Henrietta was known for being thoughtful, caring and
really determined.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
She believed women shouldn't be slaves to fashion,
that it distracted them frommore important things.
She even refused to wearcorsets, which was a thing at
the time.
Sure, and besides her work withthe National Council of Women
of Canada, she launched Canada'sfirst women's magazine and
helped create the model for theCanadian YWCA.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
YW.
Is that like the YMCA, likeit's like the?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
YMCA, but for women.
So YWCA like women, yeah, youthWomen Community Association.
What is the C?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I always forget.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Should we ask working men?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Working men.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Isn't, don't they do the YMCA song?
Is that not working men?
No, the village people, that'sright, the working men, they all
have jobs.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Oh my god, the working men, the village people,
wow, they all have jobs.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
The village people, oh wow, but they all have jobs.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I mean there's a fireman and and a policeman.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah, they're all working men.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I'm sorry.
Native American.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Okay, so Henrietta Edwards was also one of the
founders of the Victorian Orderof Nurses in 1897.
Okay, was also one of thefounders of the Victorian Order
of Nurses in 1897.
She and her husband, Dr OliverEdwards, lived on several
indigenous reservations inSaskatchewan and Alberta.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Ooh Saskatchewan.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Her wise and compassionate advice earned her
the name Otter Woman, otterMm-hmm, from the women that she
lived with, from the people thatshe lived with.
Oh, okay, okay.
Famous five number four.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Famous five, number four.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Irene Parleby.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh, I've heard of her , have you no?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
She lived from 1868 to 1965.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Holy shit, someone made it past the 30s.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yes, she was actually born in London and then became
a farmer's wife out in WesternCanada.
Okay, she was a huge advocatefor rural farm women in Alberta.
In 1916 she organized andbecame the first president of
the United Farm Women'sAssociation.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Great organization.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Irene was known for her elegance, charm and quiet
determination.
She wasn't looking to get intopolitics, but she ended up being
elected to the Albertalegislature in 1921.
She was part of the UnitedFarmers of Alberta party and she
even became the first femalecabinet minister in Alberta and
(11:35):
the second in the British empire.
Despite this, she wasincredibly effective.
She convinced the minister ofhealth to create mobile medical
clinics, the minister ofeducation to set up distance
learning and other ministers tomake significant changes for
rural Albertians, albertans,albertans or Albertians,
(11:56):
albertans Albertans.
She also became known as theminister of cooperation the
minister of cooperation.
That just is a funny title, itis Later, in 1930, prime
Minister Bennett asked her to beone of Canada's delegates at
the League of Nations meeting inGeneva.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
All right Famous for number five.
This is Nellie McClung.
She lived from 1873 to 1951.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
She was a real powerhouse A novelist, reformer,
journalist and a key figure inthe suffragette movement.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
She was known for being feisty and charismatic
Okay, with a knack for winningpeople over with humor.
That's what I do, I feel like.
That's me To a T.
I'm a novelist, a reformer anda journalist.
A journalist, and I am feistyand charismatic.
None of the above, okay youreally are beneath the charm.
She was incredibly determined.
(12:50):
Sure, she spearheaded the fightto get women the right to vote
in north america, and her workdirectly led to manitoba being
the first province to grantwomen's suffrage and the right
to hold office in 1916 so shefought for north america.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
So she fought for North America.
So she fought for it in theUnited States too, not just
Canada, Mm-hmm Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
When she moved west to Alberta.
It just so happened that bothAlberta and Saskatchewan granted
women the right to vote soonafter Okay Nellie was elected as
liberal MLA for Edmonton from1921 to 1926.
So during that time she oftenteamed up with Irene Pearlby,
(13:30):
even though they were fromdifferent political parties, to
work on issues affecting womenand children.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So wait, you're telling me that people in
different political parties canwork together.
I know right, that doesn't seemfucking right at all, that
doesn't seem fucking right atall.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
So Nellie also broke ground as the first female
director of the boards ofgovernors, where she really
pushed for women to be decisionmakers, not just assistants,
sure, and in 1938, she waschosen as a delegate to the
League of Nations in Geneva.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And she was one of the few Canadians who advocated
for voting rights for AsianCanadians and, like many
progressives of her time, we getmore into this.
Nellie also supported the ideaof sterilization, believing it
would improve quality of life.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
That seems like a terrible fucking idea.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, we will get on, we will.
I will come circle back.
I will circle back to that.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Circle back okay.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Okay, so that's the famous five, right?
Yeah, they're all in politicsat some level right right,
they're all activists of somekind and 60 die in the 30s okay,
so section 24 of the britishnorth america act okay which was
basically canada's constitution.
(14:41):
Back then, gotcha laid out whowould be appointed to the Senate
.
The Canadian government hadalways read that as men only,
isn't that?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
weird.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
It was also based on this old fashioned idea that men
were supposed to be in chargeand women were supposed to
follow.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, I mean I get the time frame we're talking
about, so that's clearly part ofthat.
But to think back on it, it'slike okay.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So back in 1876, when some women in England tried to
vote, which was a big no-no,they got arrested, and when the
judge made his ruling heactually quoted some ancient
English law that said women wereonly entitled to quote pains
and penalties, end quote, andnot rights and privileges.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So they can get punished, but yet they don't get
anything.
They don't get benefits.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
That's fucking weird, wow so of course, women like
emily murphy yeah the magistrate, furious sure I mean, why
wouldn't she be?
They were being told theyweren't qualified persons, which
was absurd.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Well, yeah, because clearly they were.
I mean especially the one thatall those people went for advice
and shit.
What was her?
Her?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
name yeah, henrietta.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Edwards yeah, so it's like clearly she was qualified,
people went to her all the timefor advice, but yet you're,
just because of some antiquatedlaw, you'd be like, no, you're,
you can't do this.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So Emily Murphy was determined to find find a way
back.
She did.
One of her brothers, emily'sbrothers, told her about a
little-known clause in theSupreme Court of Canada Act.
Was it?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Santa.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It basically said that any five people could ask
the Supreme Court to interpretany part of the Constitution.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Hence the reason there are the famous five.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
On a beautiful summer day is that relevant?
Yes, august 27th, it was abeautiful day in 1927.
Okay, four of these women whathappened to the?
These women activists all metat emily murphy's house, aka
five.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Four women came to emily murphy's house, because
that was not clear so they arein edmonton.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
They're about three hours north of calgary, which is
where lizzie sear was.
Yes, okay, so they sat on herveranda enjoying tea is that why
we're having this?
Kind of oh yes and no yeswhat's the no part?
I'll tell you later oh but theyenjoy.
But they signed a letter askingthe government to send some very
(17:19):
specific questions to theSupreme Court.
So they're trying to do thewhole step up like hey, pass
this on to your boss, kind of athing.
Sure, so they're like we havequestions, please send this off
to the Supreme Court.
Gotcha Now, throughout theirquest in their petition they
faced a lot of opposition right.
Their suffrage.
Meetings were often disrupted,so they got, because every time
(17:44):
cause people didn't want them tobe persons, qualified persons,
they don't want them to holdoffice.
They were constantly gettinginterrupted by men.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, duh.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
But women got clever.
Women traditionally had teaparties for all sorts of
occasions, right Sure, Babyshowers, weddings, other women's
events and men didn't usuallygo to those.
Oh no, because the suffragistsstarted calling their political
meeting pink teas.
Pink teas and just like thatdisruptors stayed away.
(18:16):
They never came.
Started calling their politicalmeeting pink teas, Pink teas,
and just like that.
Disruptors stayed away.
They never came.
They never came to disrupttheir pink tea meetings.
Hence the reason why we'rehaving we're having pink alcohol
in a giant tea mug.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
This is really large.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Mm-hmm Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So that is why we have a pink drink.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I appreciate the interaction here.
Okay, so this the questionsthat they ask the supreme court.
The first one yeah is powervested in the governor general,
in council of canada, theparliament of Canada or either
of them, to appoint a female tothe Senate of Canada.
So who makes that decisionessentially Right?
(19:03):
Number two is itconstitutionally possible for
the parliament of Canada, underthe provisions of the British
North America act or otherwise,to make provision for the
appointment of a female to theSenate of Canada?
Okay, Okay.
Prime Minister Mackenzie King,just like those before him, were
swamped with requests toappoint women to the Senate.
(19:26):
Sure, okay, approximately500,000 people requested that
Emily Murphy, as a magistrate,be a senator, but the official
line was always sorry, it's notlegally possible so they shot it
down because of this again oldlaw, basically so or bias,
(19:47):
whatever you want to call itwhen the famous five sent their
letter to king's office.
Yeah, he sent it to the justicedepartment.
Okay, the justice departmentsaid they suggested taking it to
the Justice Department.
Okay, the Justice Departmentsaid they suggested taking it to
the Supreme Court but wanted tokeep the question simple.
So they said the question isnow does quote unquote persons
(20:08):
in the Constitution includewomen?
That was their question for theSupreme Court.
That is a terrible question.
It became known as the person'scase.
Okay, so it was argued in March1928.
Okay so Chief Justice FrancisAlexander Anglin started looking
(20:30):
at the rules for appointingsenators which are in the
Constitution Act of 1867.
Section 23, which I hadmentioned early on, lists the
qualifications.
You have to be at least 30, aBritish.
Subject own a certain amount ofproperty.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So like what?
Two acres I mean it?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
doesn't say and live in the province you're
representing, which?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
That makes sense but a section of section 23 uses the
pronoun he when it talks aboutthese qualifications and that's
(21:16):
what led people to argue.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
You walk up to a group of people and I mean I do
it just because I guess how Iwas raised or whatever.
Let's say there's I walk up toa group of friends, there's
three girls and three guys.
I usually go.
What are you guys doing?
yeah that doesn't mean I'mdiscounting the women there yeah
, yeah it's just allencompassing general speak, yeah
(21:39):
, or it's just like and it'sfunny because like for okay, the
oscars just happened not thatlong ago there's best actress
and there's best actor.
Typically you don'tdifferentiate that.
If you were an actor, Iwouldn't go hello actress, you
just go, you're a good actoryeah you know.
(22:00):
So it's funny that like theyfucking some are generalized and
some are specific.
Correct, yeah and they tried touse that to their advantage,
saying nope, sorry, just justjust, guys, because it says he
yeah, yeah which I get.
He represents the males.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
The males yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Whatever in that, but it doesn't mean it's all
encompassing, yeah, so so thenthere's section 24, which is
about how senators get appointed.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Okay, and it said, quote the governor general shall
summon qualified persons to thestate.
So who are these qualifiedpersons, right state?
So who are these qualifiedpersons, right?
All five judges agreed thatqualified persons doesn't
include women.
So and let me guess, all allthose people were male yeah, oh,
(22:47):
uh so I think so shit, I don'tknow actually I, I would assume
oh yeah, I would assume.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I mean whether we're wrong or not.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It would make sense because of who they are and
whatever.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
So of course they're just going to fucking keep
towing that line.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, so Ellen Smith, who was the first female member
of the legislative assembly,which is the MLA, I had told you
about I couldn't remember theacronym.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
What is it called again?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Member of the legislative assembly.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, the MLA Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So Ellen Smith was the first female member of this.
She expressed the collectivedisappointment of women across
America saying, quote it feltlike a crushing blow to hear a
man declare his own motherwasn't a person.
I was like, ouch, I love, Ilove that, that line that's
pretty great, because it's likehow's, how stupid is that?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
like?
What do you mean?
We're not a person.
Yeah, that just doesn't makesense yeah even for that time
it's like what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
so it's important to know that the point this at this
point in canada history thesupreme court's decision on
constitutional questions weren'tfinal right.
So the five famous five weren'tabout to give up.
They took their case to thehighest court at the time, which
was not the supreme court, itwas the judicial committee of
(24:08):
the privy council in britain.
Privy council, yeah, becausetheir names were listed
alphabetically on the appeal.
Henrietta edwards, um, she wasthe one with all the legal
advice and the eldest of all ofthem.
Yeah, her name came first, sothe case is officially called
edwards versus canada makessense, okay, okay, okay so you
(24:28):
think the other four are likewhat the fuck man?
yeah, and most people know it aslike the person's case.
But just to be clear so onoctober 18th 1929.
They got their answer okay lordsankey, the lord chancellor,
wrote the decision for the privycouncil and he completely
overturned the supreme court'sruling.
Oh, wow he said that qualifiedpersons could definitely include
(24:53):
women.
No kidding.
He even called the idea ofexcluding women from public
office a quote relic of daysmore barbarous than ours.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well see, and that's the thing, it's like you have to
update your shit.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
And then he said quote why should the word person
not include females?
End quote.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Because we're all persons.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
He concluded that the word persons in the
Constitution included both menand women and therefore women
were eligible to be appointed bythe state, and he would advise
King directly the chancellor.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
So this has no bearing on anything.
But so let's say a crime wascommitted and there's persons of
interest, so they'd only pickmen.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
That's a good question, you know what?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I mean yeah, because, let's say, this woman killed
this other woman, for thatmatter.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Persons of interest had to be a man.
I mean, how stupid is that?
No, you're right.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
That is fair.
Yeah.
So to reach this groundbreakingdecision, Lord Sankey
essentially introduced a wholenew way of thinking about the
Constitution, yeah, A way thatis now a cornerstone in canadian
law he famously described thebritish north america act as a
living tree.
A living tree mean meaning itwas meant to adapt over time.
(26:14):
Sure, likely right no, thatmakes sense he said the act gave
canada a constitution and, likeall constitutions, it was meant
to evolve with changing customsand practices.
So he emphasized that the PrivyCouncil wasn't there to
restrict the constitution withnarrow technical interpretations
.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Instead, they should give it a broad and flexible
reading, so that Canada couldgovern itself within its own
boundaries, just like theprovinces did.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
This approach became known as the living tree
doctrine.
Oh, and it basically means theconstitution should be
interpreted in a large andliberal way, allowing it to
adapt to modern society.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Totally agree.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, so while the person's case was a massive win
for Canadian women in the longrun, yeah, it did not
immediately get Emily Murphy aseat in the Senate.
Sure, okay, it actually tookanother year, until February
15th 1930, for Kareem Ree Wilsonto become the first woman
(27:13):
appointed to the Senate.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Okay, we're going to go back to some controversy,
okay, okay.
Okay.
Now, these women, they're supercomplex figures, right?
Yeah, and that's what made ittricky to commemorate them.
Sure, they were involved in alot of different causes, which
I've mentioned.
Yeah, all aimed at improvingthe lives of women and children.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, However, oh dear, in the lives of women and
children.
Yeah, however, oh dear.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
In the early 1900s, yes, science was seen as the key
to solving just abouteverything.
People believed the scientificand technological advances could
fix all sorts of socialproblems.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
But it can't, but okay.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Emily Murphy.
Yeah, Was one of those whobelieved that issues like
alcoholism, drug abuse and crimestem from mental deficiencies.
She was really concerned aboutoverpopulation.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, this is the one who wanted to sterilize.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
In a 1932 article, she argued that overpopulation
was the root of many of ourproblems and that nothing could
truly be fixed until it wasaddressed.
Oh good Lord, as tensionsleading up to World War II grew,
Murphy, a pacifist, eventheorized that wars were caused
by nations needing more land fortheir growing populations.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
That's not what it was at all.
You had psychopaths wanting tofucking just conquer.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
She believed that population control would reduce
the need for land and thereforeeliminate war.
Wow, she is fucking stupid,then her solution is to
sterilize people eugenics yeah,she supported selective
breathing, breathing breeding, Ihope they didn't do selective
breathing selective breedingokay and forced sterilization of
(29:00):
people she considered mentallydeficient so what, she got the
pick.
I mean fuck her she argued thatthose she deemed mentally and
socially inferior were reduced,were reproducing at a higher
rate than what she called god.
This is terrible Quote humanthoroughbreds.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
So wow.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Oh, I'm not done.
She lobbied the Albertagovernment for forced
sterilization, claiming thatmentally defective children were
a threat to society and afinancial burden on the state,
and that mental deficiency washereditary.
She even wrote to the Ministerof Agricultural and Health,
(29:44):
george Hoadley, about two womenin mental institutions who had
multiple children, calling it acrime to allow them to reproduce
.
The Alberta government passed aeugenics law in 1928, though
initially it required a parentalor guardian consent.
Sure later, after death,murphy's death, the government
(30:07):
amended the law to allow forcedsterilization.
So, largely due to murphy'sstrong advocacy, thousands of
albertans were sterilizedwithout their knowledge or
consent under the sexualsterilization act, which wasn't
repealed until 1972 that isdiabolical oh, we're not done
(30:29):
what a piece of shit she was.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Then we're not done.
I mean it's funny becauseyou're like, let's, yeah, go
women go, women and children butnot these women and children
but apparently go fuck yourself,because I get to tell you if
you can breed or not.
Fuck you.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Nellie McClung.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
She was also an advocate for eugenics movement.
The act sterilized.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Can I say something real quick?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
You're building women up really good.
You're shooting them fuckingdown right now.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
So the sterilization act yeah sterilized more than 2
800 people against their willand awareness from when it took
effect in 1928 until it wasrepealed in 1972.
That is wild irene parlby, alsoon the eugenics train.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
What was in this pink drink?
Seriously fucking dumb bitches.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
She expressed sympathy for the mothers of
mentally ill children and statedthat the great and only
solution to the problem was thesterilization of feeble-minded
persons, which now include women.
By the way, henrietta Edwards,was she on this train too?
She was also a supporter God.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Lord and she promoted .
I feel bad that I like thesepeople.
Two minutes ago.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I know she promoted positive eugenics, which is
promoting the breeding of fitmembers of society.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
So again, like thoroughbreds, I thought you
were going to be likesterilizing with a smile.
Positive eugenics.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
It'll be fine, we can do it this is great.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
You're going to love it.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
It is not known if Louise McKinney supported
mandatory sterilization ofmental defectives.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Come on, mckinney, redeem women Seriously.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
She did advocate for the creation of institutions to
care for feeble-minded peopleand to prevent their procreation
.
So she she was.
She promoted the buildings, theinstitutions.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
She was adjacent.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
She was.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And she also promoted really strict immigration laws.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Well, okay, that's fine, but I don't know, I'm
confused with the whole.
Like let's just sterilizepeople and not to their
knowledge either.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Why did I, pour my second pink drink into the tea
when I could have just had itfrom the bottle?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I don't know, because you're.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I'm committed to the pink drink in a tea mug.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Because you're now considered a person.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Oh, I think you.
Okay.
Emily Murphy was the firstfemale magistrate in British
Empire.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
She advocated for women's property rights Okay,
she pushed for social reforms.
She loved eugenics.
She died in her sleep in 1933,at the age of 65.
Even though she won this hugevictory for women's rights, she
never got to be a senator.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Well, probably because she wanted to.
Eugenics people, yep.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Henrietta Edwards co-founded the National Council
of Women of Canada.
Yeah.
Advocated for women's legalrights and reforms.
Published Canada's firstwomen's magazine.
Reforms.
Published canada's firstwomen's magazine.
She died on november 9th 1931 infort mcleod, alberta she was 81
(33:51):
years old, okay nelly mclung,instrumental in manitoba
manitoba's gaining women'ssuffrage in 1916, she was part
of the members of legislativeassembly.
She advocated for women'srights and social reform.
First female director of theCBC's board of governors
whatever the hell that meansDelicate to the league of
(34:12):
nations.
She died in Victoria, britishColumbia, on September 1st 1951
at 71 years old.
Louise McKinney, elected toAlberta legislature in 1917.
First woman elected in theBritish Empire.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Advocated for women's suffrage and prohibition.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
And eugenics.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
She was the one that we're like, she was the
institution one, she was theadjacent.
She championed social welfaremeasures and she died on July
10th 1931 at the age of 63.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
And then Irene Parlebyby elected to the Alabama
legislature.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Alabama.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Sorry, alberta, alberta legislature.
She was the first femaleAlberta cabinet minister.
Right, advocated for ruralwomen.
Okay.
Canadian delegate to the Leagueof Nations.
Yeah, she died 1965 at 97 yearsold.
Almost 80 years later, inOctober 2009, the Senate decided
(35:10):
to honor the famous five bynaming them the Canada's first
honorary senators.
Posthumously.
That is the second half of theLindsay Sear the famous five and
the person's case story.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
So are we done with Lindsay Sear?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
We're done with Lizzie Sear.
She was the catalyst.
Oh, she was a catalyst becauseshe was not considered a person
and the um?
The lawyer, Cameron, said thatthe magistrate shouldn't meet a
magistrate because she was awoman.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Well, okay, said that the magistrate shouldn't be a
magistrate because she was awoman.
Well, okay, you did a reallygood job at building this up in
the beginning did I pull the rugfrom out underneath your feet?
Yeah, I kind of fucking hatethese people.
Now fuck them.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Fuck the five seriously it's like you can do
all the right things and thenthis one thing you just oh well,
and it's not.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
It's like, who are they to say?
Like no, you can't breatheanymore, let's you, let's you
use some eugenics yeah let's uhsterilize you and like I get,
maybe to a degree, what theywere trying to go, but then who
are they to fucking say?
Isn't that nuts?
I mean, you're finally a person, don't be a dick seriously.
(36:27):
You're finally a person andyou're limiting the rights of
these other people minded peopleyeah, because stupid and that's
my point it's like cool, lookwhat you did.
You.
You made a great movement forwomen.
You're now people.
Thank God, I don't know whatyou were before, but yet let's I
don't know like they wereplaying God in a way, because
(36:52):
they were just trying to getmore power.
It seemed to a degree.
I know that's not really astraight line there, but now
let's use that power to be likeyou can breed.
You're a thoroughbred yeah youcan't breed.
It's like fuck you.
Yeah, they're very contradictory, very yeah that's why it's like
you built them up, like yeah,yeah this uplifting story.
(37:14):
Awesome women fuck these people, good lord.
And the fact that it lastedtill 1972, yeah, that's awful,
that's terrible, I meanseriously penny's cleaning her
daughter bonnie yeah that'ssuper sweet so how do you feel
about the pink drink in thegiant tea mug?
Speaker 1 (37:37):
it was delicious yeah , it actually wasn't bad.
It was a nice little treat.
It was a little different fromwhat we normally do called
you're making me happy yeah,yeah, yeah, I mean, thank you,
seagram's, I did escape.
I did escape alright.
Well, I'm glad you liked it andI'm glad you have opinions
(38:00):
about these women now.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I am all for what they were doing in the beginning
in the beginning, not so muchin the end, not so much in the
end.
Again, yeah, it's just, it'sjust wild to think that like
they had all these good ideasand like let's advance women
standing in society, basically,and then they fucking had to, in
my opinion, tarnish a littlebit what they did by like, hey,
(38:24):
we should probably startsterilizing people because we
think we should yeah, all womenare persons, except for you.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
For you, because you're feeble-minded in my eyes.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I mean good lord yeah , they had some controversy
follow them, that's for sure,but of course they have statues
for them.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Well, and they posthumously got awarded a.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Senate seat or whatever.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I mean, I feel like we should write a strongly
worded email and get thatrevoked right away For all those
poor people 2,800 people fromwas it 30 something to 72?
I don't remember the front year.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
I don't remember the front year.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
But yeah to 72.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah, 2,800 people were sterilized because they
thought and obviously most ofthem were dead by that time by
72, but all of them were dead by72.
But fuck, that's just.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I don't know why it's irritating me so much because I
I kind of like I said, andthat's why I think it's just
like caught me off guard becauseyou're like building up, I'm
like, yeah, go go.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
These women.
They're doing great things forall these people and that are
now persons, and I'm going tostart referring to women as
person, on their behalf.
Hey the famous five said Icould, but anyways.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
So I think we have some time for an idiom.
I would love to learn one fromyou.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, let's figure one out, Okay.
So the first idiom I'm going todo today, because the reason
being I meant I said one ofthese and I was.
I was hoping you might catch it, but I'm sure I caught it,
didn't say anything.
You might have, but I'm notsure.
If you did Doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Can I guess?
Yeah, what my whistle?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
No, oh, I said that one during this episode.
Yes, this one is, I said was itI during this episode?
Yes, um, this one is, I said,was it?
I guess?
I guess I don't remember whichone I said it in.
Was it elizabeth, or was it uh,something else?
Uh, uh, cut to the quick.
Oh, yes, yeah.
So the phrase cut to the quickcomes from the idea of cutting
(40:35):
through the dead skin to reachthe sensitive living tissue
underneath oh, oh, yeah, okayyeah.
Okay, the word quick in thiscontext is an archaic term that
means alive or living, nokidding, because like if you
ever had a dog and like you cuttheir fingernail even cats too,
(40:55):
yeah, like that's like when youcut the quick it's like it hurts
, it's the living tissue insidethe nail, basically yeah.
Yeah, so it says Zadium, cut tothe quick, has a vivid and
somewhat painful origin.
Here's how it came to be soquick as living flesh, like we
(41:19):
just said.
The word quick in this contextrefers to the sensitive living
flesh located at the base ofyour fingernails and toenails.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
So especially in animals like that, um, it's the
part that hurts if you trim yournails too short, like, have you
ever cut your fingernail tooshort?
Oh, yes, it hurts my son.
And then you like keep likehitting it on stuff and it like
separates, oh constantly.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
It's the worst.
My son, xavier, hates gettinghis nails cut oh, because of
that reason yeah, because healways says I cut them too short
.
Oh, but I'm like, dude, yournails are disgusting, we got to
cut so anyways.
Um, so the literal meaning isthe phrase originally had a
meaning meaning like referringto the act of physically cutting
into the sensitive area.
(41:57):
Basically, okay that's what it'ssaying.
Um, over time the phraseevolved to take on a
metaphorical meaning.
Because cutting to the quick isa painful experience idiom came
to be used to describeemotional pain or hurt that is
deep and piercing.
So basically, you know wheneveryou do that you can kind of
(42:21):
relate it to any type of painfullike situation.
Kind of you cut me to the quick.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Oh OK.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You basically got me into the living flesh, is what
they're saying.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
I kind of like, in that kind of phrasing, you cut
me to the quick.
Yeah, I kind of would assume itas you beat me to it.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
I can see what you mean, yeah, but knowing that
like what that mean.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Yeah, but knowing that, like what that is, does
that make a little more sense,then it does Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
So the metaphorical use of cut to the quick can be
traced back to the 16th century.
It appeared in Sir ThomasMore's Utopia in 1551, where he
used it to describe the extentof exploitation.
He used it to describe theextent of exploitation.
So while the phrase might sounda bit harsh, it effectively
captures the feeling of beingdeeply hurt or wounded, just
(43:06):
like the pain of cutting intothat sensitive flesh beneath
your nails Super sensitive Inever associated it with human
nails.
I guess I know what it meansnow and I get it nowadays.
But like when, I was younger Ialways just knew it of being
like into a dog or cat toenail,because have you ever seen one
(43:26):
of your cats like shed theirouter?
Yeah nail if you will yeahbecause it keeps growing.
Yeah, and like, well, you knowmy cat wicket, I have been
trying to fix her nails.
They've been growing so longthat they're curling up into her
pads, poor baby.
But I'm afraid to cut to thequick.
(43:46):
So it's kind of funny because,yeah, but anyways that, and I
also mentioned it in a recentepisode.
So the second idiom I have,because we're talking about
women finally being able to bepersons.
I just thought this was kind offunny.
It's really has no connection.
Okay, uh, plain jane, um, soplain meaning the word.
(44:17):
The word plain has been used todescribe someone of unadorned
or simple appearance since thelate 14th century wow jane has
been a very common given namefor girls throughout history.
Yes, it's kind of like johnsmith for men, basically right
in a way right um.
The earliest known use of thephrase plain jane is from 1912,
(44:39):
in the writing of comptonmckenzie.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Not familiar with their work um.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Some people believe the phrase might have been
influenced by jane seymour oh,henry the eighth wife the third
wife died of childbed fever.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Listen to our origin of weird story on Ignaz
Semmelweis.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Come on back full circle.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
folks See, this is why we do shit.
It's great.
The third wife of Henry theKing, the wife of King Henry the
Ace, sorry who was consideredless conventionally beautiful
than his other wives.
However, there's no concreteevidence to support this.
That's all you're saying.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
The phrase likely gained popularity in the early
20th century possibly due to itssimple and memorable nature.
I mean, it's pretty easy, PlainJane.
You've heard that most of yourlife, right?
I mean, I know I have.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
What are you insinuating?
Speaker 2 (45:39):
You're old, but I'm older.
I don't know Well, I thoughtyou were insinuating you're old,
but I'm older.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
I don't know well I thought you were insinuating
that I was a plain j no, I saidyou've heard this, not because
people called you that.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Wow way to make it personal remember I was
charismatic and feisty you'relucky, you're a person.
I almost spit out my pink drink.
Thanks, famous five.
Let's go euthanize people.
Oh wait, no, I didn't euthanize, sterilize people.
Close, there's the word um.
(46:10):
Basically, it's used todescribe a girl or a woman who's
considered ordinary orunremarkable in appearance.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yeah, it's like wow, that's a difference so my
ex-husband's mom would callpeople like that homely.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, that is another very common term for it.
Basically, Thankfully she nevercalled me that Thank God, but
it often carries a slightlynegative connotation, implying a
lack of attractiveness orglamour.
But obviously they don't knowthe exact origin.
It remains uncertain.
(46:44):
The combination of the commonname Jane with the descriptive
word plain created a phrase thathas become a lasting part of
our English language.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Very nice.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
I feel like the famous five are probably plain
Janes.
Just kidding, I have no idea, Idon't know.
I'm still a little bitter abouthow cunty they were about that.
Yeah, either way, maybe Ishouldn't use that word.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
There's going to be a lot of microphone sounds,
microphone.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Well.
I suppose, All right, buffoons.
That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Music by Corey Akers follow us wherever you get your
podcasts and turn thosenotifications on to stay in the
loop until next time, staycurious and don't forget to rate
and review us remember, thebuffoonery never stops, starts.
Oh, hey there, oh hey there.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
How's it going, you?
Went first I did.
It's a rarity, sometimes I'mallowed.
That's rude.
I mean you usually jumptogether like there, there,
there, there there there, there,there, there, there there.
So yeah, so we are about towhat.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
You always fail to introduce us.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
When you go first.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
This is why I go first.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
That's Kate.
I'm Bradley.
We're the History Buffoons.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yes we are, yes, and if you have not yet listened to
the Lizzie Sear episode, yes.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Part one.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That is part one to our story.
This is going to be part two,and we have a special drink to
commemorate this part too.
Yeah, so I'm excited to getinto this and figure out why I
got the drinks that we got.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Figure out more why, and also to uh conclude our
story about Lizzie Sears.
Lizzie Sears.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, and the, the big government, the major
development that is happeninglizzie sear anyways okay and so
here we go yeah, okay, so I gotus a pink drink.
Pink drink no, it is notstarbucks pink drink, which I
(01:39):
don't even know what that is,but is that a thing?
It is a thing.
Apparently it was on theirhidden menu and then people
loved it so much that they putit on their actual menu menu I
don't know what it is I don'tcare what I got is sea grumps
escapes jamaican me happy it iscalled jamaican me happy um.
It is from rochester, new york,and it is essentially a wine
(02:00):
cooler.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
It's pretty much, pretty much a wine cooler so
it's funny, because wine coolersis a misnomer, it's malt based.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
It is malt.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So it's more like a beer than a wine cooler, but
they're just Bartles and James.
Back in the day they used to bewine based and anyways, they're
still considered a wine cooler,even though they're an
alternative malt beverage thesedays.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Okay so.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Tell the folks what we have the pink drink in A mug,
a tea mug.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
It's a pink drink in a tea mug.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And there's significance to this.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Yes, no, I just wanted to shoot the shit and do
something crazy.
Oh so what'd?
You do today organize the pinkdrink oh, okay no, we're gonna
cheers, we're gonna drinkthrough the, the very large
teacup that I have, because I donot have small teacups like you
, wouldn't?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
the british lands, cheers, cheers, that's so sweet
I've never I don't think I'veever had one of these before I
used I used to sell a lot ofthese yeah it was one of the uh,
I'd say top, top flavors that Isold it's pretty good actually
(03:23):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
It's not bad, okay.
So, as a brief recap of lastweek's episode on lizzie sear
yes, so she was arrested forvagrancy.
Yes, um, which is a sex worker.
Um, that was the title backthen.
Yeah, in 1970, 17, and sheended up in front of the
magistrate.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Alice jameson yeah, who shouldn't have been but was,
but isn't now she is yes and sothis is all taking place in
calgary, alberta.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
yes, so back then they mostly use vagrancy laws to
control prostitution right andbecause of the way society
blames sex workers and theirgrowing fear of stis, lizzie got
a pretty rough deal fromJameson Sure.
Now remember, jameson was onlythe second woman magistrate in
the British Empire at this point.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
David Bright, a historian, points out that there
is this deep-seated sexism inhow the law dealt with sex
workers.
Sure, and he argues thatJameson really jumped the gun,
sentencing Lizzie to six monthsof hard labor without even
letting her lawyer like properlydefend her.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, she just said this is what you get.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, and Lizzie's lawyer wasn't having it.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, no, and can you blame him?
Yes, he was trying to do hisjob Do his job and he liked
doing his job.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So he appealed the case and one of his arguments
was that Jameson, being a woman,didn't have the legal right to
be a magistrate.
But the Alberta Court of Repealshot that down, saying
basically that there was nolegal reason women shouldn't
hold office.
That decision, along with otherexamples of women in public
roles, really helped pave theway for this next part of the
(05:01):
story which is thecha which isthe famous five and the persons
case.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Famous fives and the person case Persons, persons.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
As in multiple persons, oh persons.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Okay, gotcha.
So we're going to talk aboutthe famous five.
They are five women.
Okay, so I'm going to just kindof go do-do-do-do-do and kind
of like explain each one of them.
The first one you mightremember from our first story,
sure, and it's okay if you don'tI will mention who.
She is Good, so the firstfamous five is Emily Murphy.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Emily Murphy lived from 1868 to 1933.
Okay, she was a suffragist, areformer, a writer.
She was most remarkable in thatshe became the first female
magistrate in the entire britishempire in 1916 wow, where
allison jameson was the secondcorrect, yep, okay.
(05:55):
So one of the famous, five isone is the first female
magistrate 1916, and one was theother one, the second one um, I
don't know when she wasappointed, but the story took
place in 1917.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Okay, yeah, all right , yes.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
So before that, Emily Murphy really focused on
getting women the right to ownproperty.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
She pushed hard for what became the Married Women's
Protective Act in Alberta in1911, which gave wives and kids
some security if their husbandsend up leaving.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And her work as a judge and her advocacy for women
and children made her prettyfamous across Canada.
Right, and because of all that,a lot of people wanted her to
be appointed to the Senate, ofcourse, but the federal
government said women aren'tqualified persons.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Super polite way of saying no yeah, you suck now,
emily murphy is not one to backdown well, good for her she has
the same quote whenever I don'tknow whether to fight or not, I
fight, end quote I know that'ssupposed to be like moving, but
no shit, but okay.
(07:05):
Famous five, number two, louiseMcKinley.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Louise McKinley.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Nope Louise McKinney.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Louise McKinney.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Lived 1868 to 1931.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
She was a dedicated organizer and a huge supporter
of the Women's ChristianTemperance Union Okay, a group
that was really focused onprotecting women and children by
getting rid of alcohol.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Oh, as I'm about to take a sip of one.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Let's do that right now.
Let's cheers to prohibition.
Louise was known for beingdetermined, hardworking and not
afraid to speak her mind.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Good.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Her activism played a big role in getting women the
right to vote in Alberta, andshe was also a major force
behind Prohibition, which wentinto effect in 1916, though it
was later repealed we all knowYep.
She also fought for the DowerAct in Alberta, which gave women
the right to stop their homesfrom being sold or mortgaged
without them knowing, because,holy crap, apparently you can.
Bardo, which gave women theright to stop their homes from
being sold or mortgaged withoutthem knowing Because, holy crap,
(08:07):
apparently you can just loseyour house.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
That's wild.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Famous five, number three yes.
Henrietta Edwards.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Henrietta, mm-hmm.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
She lived from 1849 to 1931.
She was the oldest out of thefive.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Do all of these die in, like the early 30s?
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Good Lord no, okay.
Out of the five, do all ofthese die in like the early 30s?
Um good lord?
No, okay.
Good, uh, she um henriettaedwards was an artist and a
legal expert of sorts, um bothmen and women would come to her
for advice on legal matters,especially those affecting women
and children makes sense in1990, nope, in 1893 she played a
key role in founding theNational Council of Women of
Canada.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
It's still around today and it's working to
improve life for women, familiesand society as a whole.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Henrietta was known for being thoughtful, caring and
really determined.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
That's nice.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
She believed women shouldn't be slaves to fashion,
that it distracted them frommore important things.
She even refused to wearcorsets, which was a thing at
the time.
Sure, and besides her work withthe National Council of Women
of Canada, she launched Canada'sfirst women's magazine and
helped create the model for theCanadian YWCA.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
YW.
Is that like the YMCA, likeit's like the?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
YMCA, but for women.
So YWCA like women, yeah, youthWomen Community Association.
What is the C?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
I always forget.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Should we ask working men?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Working men.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Isn't, don't they do the YMCA song?
Is that not working men?
No, the village people, that'sright, the working men, they all
have jobs.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Oh my god, the working men, the village people,
wow, they all have jobs.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
The village people, oh wow, but they all have jobs.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I mean there's a fireman and and a policeman.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah, they're all working men.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I'm sorry.
Native American.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Okay, so Henrietta Edwards was also one of the
founders of the Victorian Orderof Nurses in 1897.
Okay, was also one of thefounders of the Victorian Order
of Nurses in 1897.
She and her husband, Dr OliverEdwards, lived on several
indigenous reservations inSaskatchewan and Alberta.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Ooh Saskatchewan.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Her wise and compassionate advice earned her
the name Otter Woman, otterMm-hmm, from the women that she
lived with, from the people thatshe lived with.
Oh, okay, okay.
Famous five number four.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Famous five, number four.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Irene Parleby.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh, I've heard of her , have you no?
Speaker 1 (10:49):
She lived from 1868 to 1965.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Holy shit, someone made it past the 30s.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yes, she was actually born in London and then became
a farmer's wife out in WesternCanada.
Okay, she was a huge advocatefor rural farm women in Alberta.
In 1916 she organized andbecame the first president of
the United Farm Women'sAssociation.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Great organization.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Irene was known for her elegance, charm and quiet
determination.
She wasn't looking to get intopolitics, but she ended up being
elected to the Albertalegislature in 1921.
She was part of the UnitedFarmers of Alberta party and she
even became the first femalecabinet minister in Alberta and
(11:35):
the second in the British empire.
Despite this, she wasincredibly effective.
She convinced the minister ofhealth to create mobile medical
clinics, the minister ofeducation to set up distance
learning and other ministers tomake significant changes for
rural Albertians, albertans,albertans or Albertians,
(11:56):
albertans Albertans.
She also became known as theminister of cooperation the
minister of cooperation.
That just is a funny title, itis Later, in 1930, prime
Minister Bennett asked her to beone of Canada's delegates at
the League of Nations meeting inGeneva.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
All right Famous for number five.
This is Nellie McClung.
She lived from 1873 to 1951.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
She was a real powerhouse A novelist, reformer,
journalist and a key figure inthe suffragette movement.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
She was known for being feisty and charismatic
Okay, with a knack for winningpeople over with humor.
That's what I do, I feel like.
That's me To a T.
I'm a novelist, a reformer anda journalist.
A journalist, and I am feistyand charismatic.
None of the above, okay youreally are beneath the charm.
She was incredibly determined.
(12:50):
Sure, she spearheaded the fightto get women the right to vote
in north america, and her workdirectly led to manitoba being
the first province to grantwomen's suffrage and the right
to hold office in 1916 so shefought for north america.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
So she fought for North America.
So she fought for it in theUnited States too, not just
Canada, Mm-hmm Wow.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
When she moved west to Alberta.
It just so happened that bothAlberta and Saskatchewan granted
women the right to vote soonafter Okay Nellie was elected as
liberal MLA for Edmonton from1921 to 1926.
So during that time she oftenteamed up with Irene Pearlby,
(13:30):
even though they were fromdifferent political parties, to
work on issues affecting womenand children.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So wait, you're telling me that people in
different political parties canwork together.
I know right, that doesn't seemfucking right at all, that
doesn't seem fucking right atall.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
So Nellie also broke ground as the first female
director of the boards ofgovernors, where she really
pushed for women to be decisionmakers, not just assistants,
sure, and in 1938, she waschosen as a delegate to the
League of Nations in Geneva.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
And she was one of the few Canadians who advocated
for voting rights for AsianCanadians and, like many
progressives of her time, we getmore into this.
Nellie also supported the ideaof sterilization, believing it
would improve quality of life.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
That seems like a terrible fucking idea.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, we will get on, we will.
I will come circle back.
I will circle back to that.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Circle back okay.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Okay, so that's the famous five, right?
Yeah, they're all in politicsat some level right right,
they're all activists of somekind and 60 die in the 30s okay,
so section 24 of the britishnorth america act okay which was
basically canada's constitution.
(14:41):
Back then, gotcha laid out whowould be appointed to the Senate
.
The Canadian government hadalways read that as men only,
isn't that?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
weird.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
It was also based on this old fashioned idea that men
were supposed to be in chargeand women were supposed to
follow.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, I mean I get the time frame we're talking
about, so that's clearly part ofthat.
But to think back on it, it'slike okay.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
So back in 1876, when some women in England tried to
vote, which was a big no-no,they got arrested, and when the
judge made his ruling heactually quoted some ancient
English law that said women wereonly entitled to quote pains
and penalties, end quote, andnot rights and privileges.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So they can get punished, but yet they don't get
anything.
They don't get benefits.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
That's fucking weird, wow so of course, women like
emily murphy yeah the magistrate, furious sure I mean, why
wouldn't she be?
They were being told theyweren't qualified persons, which
was absurd.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Well, yeah, because clearly they were.
I mean especially the one thatall those people went for advice
and shit.
What was her?
Her?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
name yeah, henrietta.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Edwards yeah, so it's like clearly she was qualified,
people went to her all the timefor advice, but yet you're,
just because of some antiquatedlaw, you'd be like, no, you're,
you can't do this.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
So Emily Murphy was determined to find find a way
back.
She did.
One of her brothers, emily'sbrothers, told her about a
little-known clause in theSupreme Court of Canada Act.
Was it?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Santa.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It basically said that any five people could ask
the Supreme Court to interpretany part of the Constitution.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Hence the reason there are the famous five.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
On a beautiful summer day is that relevant?
Yes, august 27th, it was abeautiful day in 1927.
Okay, four of these women whathappened to the?
These women activists all metat emily murphy's house, aka
five.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Four women came to emily murphy's house, because
that was not clear so they arein edmonton.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
They're about three hours north of calgary, which is
where lizzie sear was.
Yes, okay, so they sat on herveranda enjoying tea is that why
we're having this?
Kind of oh yes and no yeswhat's the no part?
I'll tell you later oh but theyenjoy.
But they signed a letter askingthe government to send some very
(17:19):
specific questions to theSupreme Court.
So they're trying to do thewhole step up like hey, pass
this on to your boss, kind of athing.
Sure, so they're like we havequestions, please send this off
to the Supreme Court.
Gotcha Now, throughout theirquest in their petition they
faced a lot of opposition right.
Their suffrage.
Meetings were often disrupted,so they got, because every time
(17:44):
cause people didn't want them tobe persons, qualified persons,
they don't want them to holdoffice.
They were constantly gettinginterrupted by men.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, duh.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
But women got clever.
Women traditionally had teaparties for all sorts of
occasions, right Sure, Babyshowers, weddings, other women's
events and men didn't usuallygo to those.
Oh no, because the suffragistsstarted calling their political
meeting pink teas.
Pink teas and just like thatdisruptors stayed away.
(18:16):
They never came.
Started calling their politicalmeeting pink teas, Pink teas,
and just like that.
Disruptors stayed away.
They never came.
They never came to disrupttheir pink tea meetings.
Hence the reason why we'rehaving we're having pink alcohol
in a giant tea mug.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
This is really large.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Mm-hmm Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So that is why we have a pink drink.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I appreciate the interaction here.
Okay, so this the questionsthat they ask the supreme court.
The first one yeah is powervested in the governor general,
in council of canada, theparliament of Canada or either
of them, to appoint a female tothe Senate of Canada.
So who makes that decisionessentially Right?
(19:03):
Number two is itconstitutionally possible for
the parliament of Canada, underthe provisions of the British
North America act or otherwise,to make provision for the
appointment of a female to theSenate of Canada?
Okay, Okay.
Prime Minister Mackenzie King,just like those before him, were
swamped with requests toappoint women to the Senate.
(19:26):
Sure, okay, approximately500,000 people requested that
Emily Murphy, as a magistrate,be a senator, but the official
line was always sorry, it's notlegally possible so they shot it
down because of this again oldlaw, basically so or bias,
(19:47):
whatever you want to call itwhen the famous five sent their
letter to king's office.
Yeah, he sent it to the justicedepartment.
Okay, the justice departmentsaid they suggested taking it to
the Justice Department.
Okay, the Justice Departmentsaid they suggested taking it to
the Supreme Court but wanted tokeep the question simple.
So they said the question isnow does quote unquote persons
(20:08):
in the Constitution includewomen?
That was their question for theSupreme Court.
That is a terrible question.
It became known as the person'scase.
Okay, so it was argued in March1928.
Okay so Chief Justice FrancisAlexander Anglin started looking
(20:30):
at the rules for appointingsenators which are in the
Constitution Act of 1867.
Section 23, which I hadmentioned early on, lists the
qualifications.
You have to be at least 30, aBritish.
Subject own a certain amount ofproperty.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
So like what?
Two acres I mean it?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
doesn't say and live in the province you're
representing, which?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
I get that.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
That makes sense but a section of section 23 uses the
pronoun he when it talks aboutthese qualifications and that's
(21:16):
what led people to argue.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
You walk up to a group of people and I mean I do
it just because I guess how Iwas raised or whatever.
Let's say there's I walk up toa group of friends, there's
three girls and three guys.
I usually go.
What are you guys doing?
yeah that doesn't mean I'mdiscounting the women there yeah
, yeah it's just allencompassing general speak, yeah
(21:39):
, or it's just like and it'sfunny because like for okay, the
oscars just happened not thatlong ago there's best actress
and there's best actor.
Typically you don'tdifferentiate that.
If you were an actor, Iwouldn't go hello actress, you
just go, you're a good actoryeah you know.
(22:00):
So it's funny that like theyfucking some are generalized and
some are specific.
Correct, yeah and they tried touse that to their advantage,
saying nope, sorry, just justjust, guys, because it says he
yeah, yeah which I get.
He represents the males.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
The males yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Whatever in that, but it doesn't mean it's all
encompassing, yeah, so so thenthere's section 24, which is
about how senators get appointed.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Okay, and it said, quote the governor general shall
summon qualified persons to thestate.
So who are these qualifiedpersons, right state?
So who are these qualifiedpersons, right?
All five judges agreed thatqualified persons doesn't
include women.
So and let me guess, all allthose people were male yeah, oh,
(22:47):
uh so I think so shit, I don'tknow actually I, I would assume
oh yeah, I would assume.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I mean whether we're wrong or not.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It would make sense because of who they are and
whatever.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
So of course they're just going to fucking keep
towing that line.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, so Ellen Smith, who was the first female member
of the legislative assembly,which is the MLA, I had told you
about I couldn't remember theacronym.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
What is it called again?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Member of the legislative assembly.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, the MLA Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So Ellen Smith was the first female member of this.
She expressed the collectivedisappointment of women across
America saying, quote it feltlike a crushing blow to hear a
man declare his own motherwasn't a person.
I was like, ouch, I love, Ilove that, that line that's
pretty great, because it's likehow's, how stupid is that?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
like?
What do you mean?
We're not a person.
Yeah, that just doesn't makesense yeah even for that time
it's like what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (23:48):
so it's important to know that the point this at this
point in canada history thesupreme court's decision on
constitutional questions weren'tfinal right.
So the five famous five weren'tabout to give up.
They took their case to thehighest court at the time, which
was not the supreme court, itwas the judicial committee of
(24:08):
the privy council in britain.
Privy council, yeah, becausetheir names were listed
alphabetically on the appeal.
Henrietta edwards, um, she wasthe one with all the legal
advice and the eldest of all ofthem.
Yeah, her name came first, sothe case is officially called
edwards versus canada makessense, okay, okay, okay so you
(24:28):
think the other four are likewhat the fuck man?
yeah, and most people know it aslike the person's case.
But just to be clear so onoctober 18th 1929.
They got their answer okay lordsankey, the lord chancellor,
wrote the decision for the privycouncil and he completely
overturned the supreme court'sruling.
Oh, wow he said that qualifiedpersons could definitely include
(24:53):
women.
No kidding.
He even called the idea ofexcluding women from public
office a quote relic of daysmore barbarous than ours.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Well see, and that's the thing, it's like you have to
update your shit.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
And then he said quote why should the word person
not include females?
End quote.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Because we're all persons.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
He concluded that the word persons in the
Constitution included both menand women and therefore women
were eligible to be appointed bythe state, and he would advise
King directly the chancellor.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
So this has no bearing on anything.
But so let's say a crime wascommitted and there's persons of
interest, so they'd only pickmen.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
That's a good question, you know what?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I mean yeah, because, let's say, this woman killed
this other woman, for thatmatter.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Persons of interest had to be a man.
I mean, how stupid is that?
No, you're right.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
That is fair.
Yeah.
So to reach this groundbreakingdecision, Lord Sankey
essentially introduced a wholenew way of thinking about the
Constitution, yeah, A way thatis now a cornerstone in canadian
law he famously described thebritish north america act as a
living tree.
A living tree mean meaning itwas meant to adapt over time.
(26:14):
Sure, likely right no, thatmakes sense he said the act gave
canada a constitution and, likeall constitutions, it was meant
to evolve with changing customsand practices.
So he emphasized that the PrivyCouncil wasn't there to
restrict the constitution withnarrow technical interpretations
.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Instead, they should give it a broad and flexible
reading, so that Canada couldgovern itself within its own
boundaries, just like theprovinces did.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
This approach became known as the living tree
doctrine.
Oh, and it basically means theconstitution should be
interpreted in a large andliberal way, allowing it to
adapt to modern society.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Totally agree.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, so while the person's case was a massive win
for Canadian women in the longrun, yeah, it did not
immediately get Emily Murphy aseat in the Senate.
Sure, okay, it actually tookanother year, until February
15th 1930, for Kareem Ree Wilsonto become the first woman
(27:13):
appointed to the Senate.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Okay, we're going to go back to some controversy,
okay, okay.
Okay.
Now, these women, they're supercomplex figures, right?
Yeah, and that's what made ittricky to commemorate them.
Sure, they were involved in alot of different causes, which
I've mentioned.
Yeah, all aimed at improvingthe lives of women and children.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, However, oh dear, in the lives of women and
children.
Yeah, however, oh dear.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
In the early 1900s, yes, science was seen as the key
to solving just abouteverything.
People believed the scientificand technological advances could
fix all sorts of socialproblems.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
But it can't, but okay.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Emily Murphy.
Yeah, Was one of those whobelieved that issues like
alcoholism, drug abuse and crimestem from mental deficiencies.
She was really concerned aboutoverpopulation.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah, this is the one who wanted to sterilize.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
In a 1932 article, she argued that overpopulation
was the root of many of ourproblems and that nothing could
truly be fixed until it wasaddressed.
Oh good Lord, as tensionsleading up to World War II grew,
Murphy, a pacifist, eventheorized that wars were caused
by nations needing more land fortheir growing populations.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
That's not what it was at all.
You had psychopaths wanting tofucking just conquer.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
She believed that population control would reduce
the need for land and thereforeeliminate war.
Wow, she is fucking stupid,then her solution is to
sterilize people eugenics yeah,she supported selective
breathing, breathing breeding, Ihope they didn't do selective
breathing selective breedingokay and forced sterilization of
(29:00):
people she considered mentallydeficient so what, she got the
pick.
I mean fuck her she argued thatthose she deemed mentally and
socially inferior were reduced,were reproducing at a higher
rate than what she called god.
This is terrible Quote humanthoroughbreds.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
So wow.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Oh, I'm not done.
She lobbied the Albertagovernment for forced
sterilization, claiming thatmentally defective children were
a threat to society and afinancial burden on the state,
and that mental deficiency washereditary.
She even wrote to the Ministerof Agricultural and Health,
(29:44):
george Hoadley, about two womenin mental institutions who had
multiple children, calling it acrime to allow them to reproduce
.
The Alberta government passed aeugenics law in 1928, though
initially it required a parentalor guardian consent.
Sure later, after death,murphy's death, the government
(30:07):
amended the law to allow forcedsterilization.
So, largely due to murphy'sstrong advocacy, thousands of
albertans were sterilizedwithout their knowledge or
consent under the sexualsterilization act, which wasn't
repealed until 1972 that isdiabolical oh, we're not done
(30:29):
what a piece of shit she was.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Then we're not done.
I mean it's funny becauseyou're like, let's, yeah, go
women go, women and children butnot these women and children
but apparently go fuck yourself,because I get to tell you if
you can breed or not.
Fuck you.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Nellie McClung.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
She was also an advocate for eugenics movement.
The act sterilized.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Can I say something real quick?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
You're building women up really good.
You're shooting them fuckingdown right now.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
So the sterilization act yeah sterilized more than 2
800 people against their willand awareness from when it took
effect in 1928 until it wasrepealed in 1972.
That is wild irene parlby, alsoon the eugenics train.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
What was in this pink drink?
Seriously fucking dumb bitches.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
She expressed sympathy for the mothers of
mentally ill children and statedthat the great and only
solution to the problem was thesterilization of feeble-minded
persons, which now include women.
By the way, henrietta Edwards,was she on this train too?
She was also a supporter God.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Lord and she promoted .
I feel bad that I like thesepeople.
Two minutes ago.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I know she promoted positive eugenics, which is
promoting the breeding of fitmembers of society.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
So again, like thoroughbreds, I thought you
were going to be likesterilizing with a smile.
Positive eugenics.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
It'll be fine, we can do it this is great.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
You're going to love it.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
It is not known if Louise McKinney supported
mandatory sterilization ofmental defectives.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Come on, mckinney, redeem women Seriously.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
She did advocate for the creation of institutions to
care for feeble-minded peopleand to prevent their procreation
.
So she she was.
She promoted the buildings, theinstitutions.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
She was adjacent.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
She was.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And she also promoted really strict immigration laws.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Well, okay, that's fine, but I don't know, I'm
confused with the whole.
Like let's just sterilizepeople and not to their
knowledge either.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Why did I, pour my second pink drink into the tea
when I could have just had itfrom the bottle?
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I don't know, because you're.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I'm committed to the pink drink in a tea mug.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Because you're now considered a person.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Oh, I think you.
Okay.
Emily Murphy was the firstfemale magistrate in British
Empire.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
She advocated for women's property rights Okay,
she pushed for social reforms.
She loved eugenics.
She died in her sleep in 1933,at the age of 65.
Even though she won this hugevictory for women's rights, she
never got to be a senator.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Well, probably because she wanted to.
Eugenics people, yep.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Henrietta Edwards co-founded the National Council
of Women of Canada.
Yeah.
Advocated for women's legalrights and reforms.
Published Canada's firstwomen's magazine.
Reforms.
Published canada's firstwomen's magazine.
She died on november 9th 1931 infort mcleod, alberta she was 81
(33:51):
years old, okay nelly mclung,instrumental in manitoba
manitoba's gaining women'ssuffrage in 1916, she was part
of the members of legislativeassembly.
She advocated for women'srights and social reform.
First female director of theCBC's board of governors
whatever the hell that meansDelicate to the league of
(34:12):
nations.
She died in Victoria, britishColumbia, on September 1st 1951
at 71 years old.
Louise McKinney, elected toAlberta legislature in 1917.
First woman elected in theBritish Empire.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Advocated for women's suffrage and prohibition.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
And eugenics.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
She was the one that we're like, she was the
institution one, she was theadjacent.
She championed social welfaremeasures and she died on July
10th 1931 at the age of 63.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
And then Irene Parlebyby elected to the Alabama
legislature.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Alabama.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Sorry, alberta, alberta legislature.
She was the first femaleAlberta cabinet minister.
Right, advocated for ruralwomen.
Okay.
Canadian delegate to the Leagueof Nations.
Yeah, she died 1965 at 97 yearsold.
Almost 80 years later, inOctober 2009, the Senate decided
(35:10):
to honor the famous five bynaming them the Canada's first
honorary senators.
Posthumously.
That is the second half of theLindsay Sear the famous five and
the person's case story.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
So are we done with Lindsay Sear?
Speaker 1 (35:27):
We're done with Lizzie Sear.
She was the catalyst.
Oh, she was a catalyst becauseshe was not considered a person
and the um?
The lawyer, Cameron, said thatthe magistrate shouldn't meet a
magistrate because she was awoman.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Well, okay, said that the magistrate shouldn't be a
magistrate because she was awoman.
Well, okay, you did a reallygood job at building this up in
the beginning did I pull the rugfrom out underneath your feet?
Yeah, I kind of fucking hatethese people.
Now fuck them.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Fuck the five seriously it's like you can do
all the right things and thenthis one thing you just oh well,
and it's not.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
It's like, who are they to say?
Like no, you can't breatheanymore, let's you, let's you
use some eugenics yeah let's uhsterilize you and like I get,
maybe to a degree, what theywere trying to go, but then who
are they to fucking say?
Isn't that nuts?
I mean, you're finally a person, don't be a dick seriously.
(36:27):
You're finally a person andyou're limiting the rights of
these other people minded peopleyeah, because stupid and that's
my point it's like cool, lookwhat you did.
You.
You made a great movement forwomen.
You're now people.
Thank God, I don't know whatyou were before, but yet let's I
don't know like they wereplaying God in a way, because
(36:52):
they were just trying to getmore power.
It seemed to a degree.
I know that's not really astraight line there, but now
let's use that power to be likeyou can breed.
You're a thoroughbred yeah youcan't breed.
It's like fuck you.
Yeah, they're very contradictory, very yeah that's why it's like
you built them up, like yeah,yeah this uplifting story.
(37:14):
Awesome women fuck these people, good lord.
And the fact that it lastedtill 1972, yeah, that's awful,
that's terrible, I meanseriously penny's cleaning her
daughter bonnie yeah that'ssuper sweet so how do you feel
about the pink drink in thegiant tea mug?
Speaker 1 (37:37):
it was delicious yeah , it actually wasn't bad.
It was a nice little treat.
It was a little different fromwhat we normally do called
you're making me happy yeah,yeah, yeah, I mean, thank you,
seagram's, I did escape.
I did escape alright.
Well, I'm glad you liked it andI'm glad you have opinions
(38:00):
about these women now.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I am all for what they were doing in the beginning
in the beginning, not so muchin the end, not so much in the
end.
Again, yeah, it's just, it'sjust wild to think that like
they had all these good ideasand like let's advance women
standing in society, basically,and then they fucking had to, in
my opinion, tarnish a littlebit what they did by like, hey,
(38:24):
we should probably startsterilizing people because we
think we should yeah, all womenare persons, except for you.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
For you, because you're feeble-minded in my eyes.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I mean good lord yeah , they had some controversy
follow them, that's for sure,but of course they have statues
for them.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Well, and they posthumously got awarded a.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Senate seat or whatever.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I mean, I feel like we should write a strongly
worded email and get thatrevoked right away For all those
poor people 2,800 people fromwas it 30 something to 72?
I don't remember the front year.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
I don't remember the front year.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
But yeah to 72.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Yeah, 2,800 people were sterilized because they
thought and obviously most ofthem were dead by that time by
72, but all of them were dead by72.
But fuck, that's just.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I don't know why it's irritating me so much because I
I kind of like I said, andthat's why I think it's just
like caught me off guard becauseyou're like building up, I'm
like, yeah, go go.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
These women.
They're doing great things forall these people and that are
now persons, and I'm going tostart referring to women as
person, on their behalf.
Hey the famous five said Icould, but anyways.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
So I think we have some time for an idiom.
I would love to learn one fromyou.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, let's figure one out, Okay.
So the first idiom I'm going todo today, because the reason
being I meant I said one ofthese and I was.
I was hoping you might catch it, but I'm sure I caught it,
didn't say anything.
You might have, but I'm notsure.
If you did Doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Can I guess?
Yeah, what my whistle?
Speaker 2 (40:14):
No, oh, I said that one during this episode.
Yes, this one is, I said was itI during this episode?
Yes, um, this one is, I said,was it?
I guess?
I guess I don't remember whichone I said it in.
Was it elizabeth, or was it uh,something else?
Uh, uh, cut to the quick.
Oh, yes, yeah.
So the phrase cut to the quickcomes from the idea of cutting
(40:35):
through the dead skin to reachthe sensitive living tissue
underneath oh, oh, yeah, okayyeah.
Okay, the word quick in thiscontext is an archaic term that
means alive or living, nokidding, because like if you
ever had a dog and like you cuttheir fingernail even cats too,
(40:55):
yeah, like that's like when youcut the quick it's like it hurts
, it's the living tissue insidethe nail, basically yeah.
Yeah, so it says Zadium, cut tothe quick, has a vivid and
somewhat painful origin.
Here's how it came to be soquick as living flesh, like we
(41:19):
just said.
The word quick in this contextrefers to the sensitive living
flesh located at the base ofyour fingernails and toenails.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
So especially in animals like that, um, it's the
part that hurts if you trim yournails too short, like, have you
ever cut your fingernail tooshort?
Oh, yes, it hurts my son.
And then you like keep likehitting it on stuff and it like
separates, oh constantly.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
It's the worst.
My son, xavier, hates gettinghis nails cut oh, because of
that reason yeah, because healways says I cut them too short
.
Oh, but I'm like, dude, yournails are disgusting, we got to
cut so anyways.
Um, so the literal meaning isthe phrase originally had a
meaning meaning like referringto the act of physically cutting
into the sensitive area.
(41:57):
Basically, okay that's what it'ssaying.
Um, over time the phraseevolved to take on a
metaphorical meaning.
Because cutting to the quick isa painful experience idiom came
to be used to describeemotional pain or hurt that is
deep and piercing.
So basically, you know wheneveryou do that you can kind of
(42:21):
relate it to any type of painfullike situation.
Kind of you cut me to the quick.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Oh OK.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You basically got me into the living flesh, is what
they're saying.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
I kind of like, in that kind of phrasing, you cut
me to the quick.
Yeah, I kind of would assume itas you beat me to it.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
I can see what you mean, yeah, but knowing that
like what that mean.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
Yeah, but knowing that, like what that is, does
that make a little more sense,then it does Okay.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
So the metaphorical use of cut to the quick can be
traced back to the 16th century.
It appeared in Sir ThomasMore's Utopia in 1551, where he
used it to describe the extentof exploitation.
He used it to describe theextent of exploitation.
So while the phrase might sounda bit harsh, it effectively
captures the feeling of beingdeeply hurt or wounded, just
(43:06):
like the pain of cutting intothat sensitive flesh beneath
your nails Super sensitive Inever associated it with human
nails.
I guess I know what it meansnow and I get it nowadays.
But like when, I was younger Ialways just knew it of being
like into a dog or cat toenail,because have you ever seen one
(43:26):
of your cats like shed theirouter?
Yeah nail if you will yeahbecause it keeps growing.
Yeah, and like, well, you knowmy cat wicket, I have been
trying to fix her nails.
They've been growing so longthat they're curling up into her
pads, poor baby.
But I'm afraid to cut to thequick.
(43:46):
So it's kind of funny because,yeah, but anyways that, and I
also mentioned it in a recentepisode.
So the second idiom I have,because we're talking about
women finally being able to bepersons.
I just thought this was kind offunny.
It's really has no connection.
Okay, uh, plain jane, um, soplain meaning the word.
(44:17):
The word plain has been used todescribe someone of unadorned
or simple appearance since thelate 14th century wow jane has
been a very common given namefor girls throughout history.
Yes, it's kind of like johnsmith for men, basically right
in a way right um.
The earliest known use of thephrase plain jane is from 1912,
(44:39):
in the writing of comptonmckenzie.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Not familiar with their work um.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Some people believe the phrase might have been
influenced by jane seymour oh,henry the eighth wife the third
wife died of childbed fever.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Listen to our origin of weird story on Ignaz
Semmelweis.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Come on back full circle.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
folks See, this is why we do shit.
It's great.
The third wife of Henry theKing, the wife of King Henry the
Ace, sorry who was consideredless conventionally beautiful
than his other wives.
However, there's no concreteevidence to support this.
That's all you're saying.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
The phrase likely gained popularity in the early
20th century possibly due to itssimple and memorable nature.
I mean, it's pretty easy, PlainJane.
You've heard that most of yourlife, right?
I mean, I know I have.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
What are you insinuating?
Speaker 2 (45:39):
You're old, but I'm older.
I don't know Well, I thoughtyou were insinuating you're old,
but I'm older.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
I don't know well I thought you were insinuating
that I was a plain j no, I saidyou've heard this, not because
people called you that.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Wow way to make it personal remember I was
charismatic and feisty you'relucky, you're a person.
I almost spit out my pink drink.
Thanks, famous five.
Let's go euthanize people.
Oh wait, no, I didn't euthanize, sterilize people.
Close, there's the word um.
(46:10):
Basically, it's used todescribe a girl or a woman who's
considered ordinary orunremarkable in appearance.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yeah, it's like wow, that's a difference so my
ex-husband's mom would callpeople like that homely.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, that is another very common term for it.
Basically, Thankfully she nevercalled me that Thank God, but
it often carries a slightlynegative connotation, implying a
lack of attractiveness orglamour.
But obviously they don't knowthe exact origin.
It remains uncertain.
(46:44):
The combination of the commonname Jane with the descriptive
word plain created a phrase thathas become a lasting part of
our English language.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Very nice.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
I feel like the famous five are probably plain
Janes.
Just kidding, I have no idea, Idon't know.
I'm still a little bitter abouthow cunty they were about that.
Yeah, either way, maybe Ishouldn't use that word.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
There's going to be a lot of microphone sounds,
microphone.
Speaker 2 (47:15):
Well.
I suppose, All right, buffoons.
That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
Buckle up, because we've got another historical
adventure waiting for you.
Next time Feeling hungry formore buffoonery, or maybe you
have a burning question or awild historical theory for us to
explore.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Hit us up on social media.
We're History Buffoons Podcaston YouTube X, instagram and
Facebook.
You can also email us athistorybuffoonspodcast at
gmailcom.
We are Bradley and Kate.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Music by Corey Akers follow us wherever you get your
podcasts and turn thosenotifications on to stay in the
loop until next time, staycurious and don't forget to rate
and review us remember, thebuffoonery never stops, starts.
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