June 22, 2025 • 56 mins
Comedian Drew Fralick is a rare breed. He is a comedian, but he is also a full-time pastor and a licensed mental health counselor. He performs stand-up comedy in English and Mandarin. Host Mohammed Magdi catches up with Drew over a shisha session, and they cover everything, from the tales of living in downtown Detroit to creating what's possibly the only comedy club that's part of a church in America.
Get tickets for Backstage Comedy shows: https://thebackstagehk.com/
Subscribe to our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hohopod
Leave us a review: (please!) https://www.ratethispodcast.com/hohohkpod
Check out Drew Fralick's Blog: https://www.drewfralick.com/
Follow Mohammed on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theothermohammed
Follow Vivek on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/funnyvivek
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
So I reiterate here, the bill isdead.
The story of this great city is about the years before this
night. Hey everybody, it's a new
(00:23):
episode of Ho Hong Kong. I'm sitting here with someone
I'll introduce in a second, but Novivek today Novivek.
I think last week we had no me. I was doing a show.
Actually, no, I was watching Nora Yang in so Nora Yang, you
(00:44):
might have heard her mention on the podcast before.
She runs spicy comedy in Shanghai and she was a young
comic when we first when she first started at Kung Fu comedy
and now she's pretty much the biggest name in comedy in in
China and one of the biggest. And her and her crew came to
Hong Kong to do a showcase at the Poly at the Polytech
(01:08):
University and at the Jockey Club Theatre.
And so anyway, I was I was watching Nora's show and it was
a lot of fun and it was good to catch up with her.
And so this week, this time, no Vivek.
And for oh man, we're going to get to it when he's back on the
podcast. But I think you guys know,
(01:30):
especially people on the WhatsApp group, Vivek is the
opening act for Jimmy O Yang in Hong Kong.
And as a time of recording, I went to the show last night and
I saw him and it was honestly like I was just like, Vivek is
older and obviously in a way, inmany ways is more experienced.
But I also had this like proud, I don't know, friend dad moment,
(01:54):
whatever it is, where I was justlike almost tearing up watching
him, like not just like do really well, but Vivek And I
will, you know, on the podcast, I will, I'll talk to him about
it because he is someone who is generally very like
businesslike, just everything iswork.
And when I saw him the night before, when he like, you know,
the gig was confirmed and he didthe rehearsals and everything,
(02:15):
he was so giddy. And I've never almost I've never
seen him like that. Like I've never seen him
genuinely like bouncing about this show and for a good reason.
He he was really excited. Obviously huge opportunity.
Colosseum is that, you know, 12,500 theater, I believe for
Jimmy's setup, it's about 10,000obviously all sold out and just
(02:36):
Vivek came out guns blazing. He's the first act like there's
nothing before him. So he is walking up to what we
call in the business, a cold room and he just gets him going,
man. He just gets him going, gets
multiple applause breaks, just absolutely destroys.
And by the at the time when we're recording right now, he is
doing the Saturday shows, which is 3 and 8:00 PM and he's doing
(03:01):
the Sundays he's doing all five of them.
So we'll get to it when when Vivek is back.
Another update that is kind of funny from my side is I had a
couple of videos on Instagram that actually is it went a bit
of, you know, viral, I guess, you know, many Hong Kong viral,
(03:21):
you know, the, the a couple of weeks ago we talked with Daniel
Fernandez about like the hate comments and all of that and I
got a little taste of that. So if you go on my Instagram,
the other Mohammed, it's not really a plug, it's just, you
know, for context, I posted a couple of videos.
I started, you know, putting outmore videos because you know,
it's what comedians do and you're not supposed to just
(03:42):
hoard all your material and people don't know if you're
legit or not, whatever. So I put, by the time this
recording, I put 3 new bits and one of them was about me going
to Manila and you know, you can see the bits or whatever.
And I got like generally positive feedback.
And then I put this other one that is related to Hong Kong
about how I made it to the xpat bubble.
(04:05):
And that went, as I said, like kind of Hong Kong viral with
over 80 comments by the time I'mI'm recording this.
And I don't want to say mixed reaction.
A lot of it is positive. Very, a lot of it is really
positive, but then the negative is also quite harsh.
So I started getting a little bit taste of that.
(04:25):
And then the third video I put, which is like, you know, making
fun of myself a little bit. I'm poor in Hong Kong, but rich
in Egypt. And again, you know, again, some
traction and you know people, you know someone for example, a
comment that got 7 likes, which is, you know, I guess
significant that seven people agreed with them.
He said, are these paid actors to laugh?
(04:50):
And I'm like, Ouch. You know, you can obviously go
on comment. I honestly, I am more than happy
to engage because you know, the between you and me that is good
for any kind of engagement is good because, you know, keeps
the algorithm going. It keeps the whatever you call
them that the overlords of of this fucking robot going.
So I'm happy for you. Everyone, please go on.
(05:12):
Just say whatever you want. You can troll me.
You can pretend that you don't like it.
Whatever it is, it will help. But you know, I had a my my
following before was built with a couple of videos that I put
from old Comedy Central tapings about they're translated in
Arabic and they're about like, you know, context was a little
(05:33):
bit more more Middle Eastern. So a lot of my followers that
the bulk of my followers are actually from Egypt, which is
great. But it's also doesn't doesn't
necessarily help me move ticketsin Hong Kong.
So the fact that I'm getting a little bit of traction in Hong
Kong is cool. So please keep that going.
Then we can we can put out more fun stuff.
So let's get to our guest. Our guest, as you can tell from
(05:56):
the title, is Drew Frehlich. Drew is is an old friend.
He has been on the podcast before via Zoom, I believe.
Drew. Yeah, that's right.
Yep. Yeah, so and Drew used to be
based in Shanghai doing stand up.
He started stand up before me, actually.
And you were pretty much at the first.
Do you remember my first open mic?
Were you there? I do, yeah.
We talked a lot about it. It was please tell me the first
(06:18):
time that Muhammad did open mic in Shanghai.
I remember they called us all together for a meeting
afterwards and they said these new comics, especially this one
guy you had a joke about come ina bowl and and I remember we
didn't remember. It's come in a bowl.
Like coming like, you know, semen in a, in a bowl, you know,
in a, you know. I have no memory of that.
(06:40):
So you know, for those of you who follow Muhammad, you may be
interested to know that for the first month he was doing comedy
in Shanghai, nobody actually knew his name.
We just referred to him as come in a bowl guy.
Well, that is new to me. New to me right now.
You can ask, You can ask. So we were like these new
comics, they're too dirty. It's a real threat to the scene,
(07:02):
which you know, but he, he, he found.
I don't, I've never even heard you do that bit.
I think he did it one time. No, yeah, it, it must have been
like, you know, obviously when you're like brand new.
Yeah, I think you had like you wanted to say that for years and
then you got it off your chest and then you started writing
real. Jokes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was good.
That's amazing. So I remember that I told the
story for, so I'm not gonna do it again, but I remember Audrey
(07:25):
Moray being the host of my firstopen mic, and man, she was a
killer. Yeah, she was great.
She had the the piano, the PowerPoint slides, the deadpan.
By the way, I'm going to put themic next to the cheesa for a
second because we're recording over cheesa so you can just hear
this. Yeah, that's how professional
(07:48):
we. Are that's right?
And we have Turkish coffee with cardamom in it.
Yes, we are. Yeah, Bond of Howick for my
buddies in Egypt. Yeah, Cardamom coffee.
And we're just having a great old time.
And it's just one of these timeswhen we just turn on the
recorder and see what happens. I wanted to comment on a few of
your recent videos. Can I can I do that here?
OK. You did watch the videos?
I don't even. Know I did.
(08:09):
I watched the videos. So I follow Mohammed on
Instagram. The other Mohammed, he already
plugged that, but I'll go ahead and plug it again.
Yes, thank you. I did watch the videos.
I didn't comment. I tend to just like stuff.
I don't really comment. I don't like to get.
I don't believe you liked eitherof.
Them no, I did. I liked them.
I will check later. Go back and check.
I'm sure I I'm sure I did. I'm sure I did.
(08:32):
I'm sure I didn't just scroll past it and go but.
You watched them? Yeah, I did watch them.
Yeah. OK.
And tell. Me your comment.
No, I, I connected with the Manila one.
I, I, I, I enjoyed it. I've been to Manila.
Yeah. And I was there for a couple
days and I like that, you know? And it was good, yeah.
Yeah, my buddy, keep going, Mikey Andreas, who is, she's
(08:54):
just going really well now, by the way, perfect.
You might hear us say that because it was like hard to keep
get it going, but now we're having a nice cloud.
My buddy Mikey Andreas was like one of the bigger comics in
Manila. He shared he actually the video
because he and he was like, I even messaged him.
I ran it past him before I put it online.
I'm like, is this going to get me in too much trouble?
(09:14):
And he was like, absolutely not.Yeah, you don't want to run
afoul of the Manila crap. Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, OK.
Do you have comments on the other one?
Well, the Manila one, I just want to say, you know, I did go
to I, I tried some of the food in Manila.
It was quite good. Yeah, it was Papa John's pizza
near the airport. Do.
You have a Wendy's there? Oh, do they have a Wendy's now?
(09:35):
OK, the other two videos were what?
You'll have to remind me. Well, one was about, I said like
the expat bubble thing. So I used to leave.
That's the one that went like quote UN quote like proper.
Volume, when did you put that one out?
Was that? June 5, So that's about by now.
It's about 11 days. Ago.
OK, OK, I got you. But yeah, like, you know, it has
right now with 40,000 views. Wow.
(09:57):
Yeah. So it's like, yeah, again, like
so I think. Yeah, 'cause I put stuff on
Instagram, you can follow me as well.
It's Freilich, under score Drew.Very easy to remember.
Very easy. I'd also be in the show notes.
But my video you know they get like 6 views or whatever.
Well, there is there is, there is something to it, Not that I
claim to know like obviously I would have more success if I
(10:18):
know really the recipe. But I do believe that this
particular one and you are a mental health counselor by by
profession. So you might agree or not.
I think you need the content that goes viral in my opinion.
It needs to be upsetting. I don't believe it's necessarily
(10:38):
upsetting. It needs to provoke an emotion.
That is. Beyond, like, I like this, yeah.
Because there's a lot of really good content.
It needs to provoke. So there's a lot of really funny
content of like, cats jumping around or whatever.
Yeah, but it needs to provoke anemotion.
So it's what I feel. There's the six big emotions.
We can get into that later too. There's six.
If it provokes one of the six big emotions, then I think.
(11:02):
That's this one. Maybe you can tell me which
emotion did it provoke because the bit quickly is about how I
used to live in Tim Tatroy and that's Kowloon and that's like
where quote UN quote the brown people live or whatever, right?
And the whole like, you know, obviously.
OK, so right there. Shame.
Yes, that's one of the six big emotions.
Yeah. Shame.
Yeah. Shame.
Tapping into the shame. Tapping into the shame.
Mine evoke boredom, which is notone of the big six emotions, so
(11:25):
that's OK. Keep going.
All right, so. And then I say I did better and
now I live on Hong Kong Island. OK, so that's anger, jealousy,
right? There you go.
Yeah, there you go. Yeah, exactly.
And then I ended by saying I'm sorry your life still sucks if
you still live there. Back to right.
Back to shame, Yeah. Right back to shame, yeah.
I can write with you around thatyou.
(11:46):
Should you should write jokes that are like shame, anger,
shame? That's a great.
You know, shame is the most powerful of the six emotions,
actually. Yeah.
There you go. So.
That's amazing. But OK, so for people who are
not familiar with you, you have such an interesting.
Which is everyone. Yes, which is everyone.
Not after this. People would be more familiar.
With it, I was on the podcast like, what was it 4 years ago?
(12:08):
Yeah, yeah, right. When I first became the pastor
of a church. Right, that's which is a perfect
segue. Yeah.
What the hell is a pastor of a church doing doing?
Also professional stand up. Yeah.
So, you know, I was a comic for,I don't know what has it been 15
years, something like that. It's been a while.
Yeah. So about four years ago, the
(12:30):
pastor of our church was leavingand they hadn't found a
replacement and. So you are just a churchgoer at.
That place, I just go to church.Yeah.
I sat in the back row. Sure, sure.
I was there. Yeah.
And he was leaving and he said why don't you be the pastor,
right? I said, what?
How am I going to be the pastor?I've never done anything like
(12:51):
that, you know, he said, Well, you're a comedian and you're a
mental health therapist that's basically a pastor.
Like, you deal with mental health stuff and you give, you
know, speeches or whatever. And so I said, you know, I don't
really know if I'm interested inthat.
That sounds really different than what I'm used to.
He said, well, why don't you do the interim pasture, which is
(13:12):
like, you just do it till they find, you know, a real pasture.
That's how they, I don't know ifyou ever watch the show Lost.
Yeah, lost. Yeah.
Yeah, right. Like I think one of obviously
the lost literally lost the plottowards the end, yeah.
But one of the IT got weird it. Got weird, but I remember one of
the good whatever, one of the good plots of the show is that
(13:32):
they were trying to trick one ofthe guys who was stuck in a
basement, was trying to trick Jack or whoever it is OK to take
over from him. OK?
And he told him the exact same thing he told.
OK. Oh yeah, the next guy is going
to come. Yeah, yeah, he's coming.
Yeah. You have to keep resetting this
so the world doesn't end. Yeah, until and then he just
fucking bailed on him and ran away.
(13:54):
Interesting. I'll have to.
I'll have to go back and watch that episode, basically.
That's basically what they did to me.
Yeah. So, yeah, so they said be
interim, you know, and it won't take long.
You know, they'll be, they'll find somebody within like a
month. Yeah.
So anyway, so they so, yeah. So I was doing it and they
obviously didn't find anybody else, right?
But I started enjoying it. I was like, oh, I kind of like
(14:15):
this job. It's pretty fun.
And so later the next year, I said, hey, listen, I'll do, I'll
apply for this job. But I got to do it with my wife.
You know, my wife is, you know, Laurie, she's very type A, very
like a leader, you know, she's aleader, you know what I mean?
She's a leader. I'm like a clown, you know what
I mean? I always say, like, Laurie,
she's like Barack Obama, and I'mlike George W Bush, you know,
(14:38):
like people are like, ah, that'dbe a fun guy to have a beer
with, you know what I mean? So, yeah, so we've been doing it
for four years. Wait, wait, wait.
Like there is now that pops a few questions like #1 is how?
First of all, I, I obviously I'mnot Christian and I don't know
much about that word. Yeah, I didn't know pastor is a
job. Yeah, it's a job, Yeah.
So it's just like a regular job.Yeah, yeah, that's what what is
(15:01):
the job description? Yeah, so you, you know, it is
you preach every Sunday. So it's like comedians, you
know, they come up with like, what, a new 45 minutes every a
couple years or something. Like that, Yeah, like that I, I
said in the podcast before, likethe highest level comedians,
like the Dave Chappelle's of theworld, they come up with an hour
a year. An hour A.
Year during every day, yeah, that's how difficult.
(15:23):
But it's tight. It's a tight hour.
Of course it's a tight hour. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Pastor, you preach every Sunday, and it's basically you
come up with a new 45 minutes every week, right?
Not as tight. Yeah, obviously.
Yes. And, you know, you can, like,
steal material from John or Paulor Moses or something like that.
You know, you can read from the book.
Yeah. But yeah, you come up with
(15:44):
basically a new 45 minutes everyevery week, right?
Which is daunting, you know? Yeah.
Of course, it's daunting, but dopeople like, like comedy?
If you're, like, recycling material, they will call you out
or like, you would feel them like checking out and stuff.
You know, Of course, we've all been there.
Yeah. Yeah.
When you're doing a bit that toomany people in the audience are
familiar with. Yeah.
And they're like, oh, here we go.
(16:05):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the problem with that is my bits are like 25 minutes long.
That's your comedy? Yeah.
So. Yeah, so.
People check out, you know, and then you got to sit through 24
1/2 more minutes of the joke youyou've heard and are a little
stale on, you know, Yeah. So people do check out, but it's
a whole different craft. You have to figure out.
(16:25):
You you figure it out. It takes a couple years to
really, yeah, get good at it. But you figure it out and.
And how does that you find a way?
You have comedy. Well, with comedy, it's like,
you know, like tonight I'm gonnado backstage comedy.
We didn't do that. Yeah.
The main reason Drew's in Hong Kong, aside from catching up
with me, is that he's headliningby the time you listen to this
(16:45):
show's over. It'll already be over, but you
missed a lot of fun if you weren't there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you tend to.
We had to have an agreement of you not throwing stuff at the
audience or you losing props because that was one of your
things back in Shanghai sometimes.
Yeah, back in the day, you know,I did a lot of prop comedy.
I would throw, you know, I wouldthrow stuff in the audience.
(17:07):
I was like a Power Ranger once on stage and yeah, I was like a
frog or. Something I would get like
outfits for different comics to wear and we would like we would
have a fashion show or, or it was all weird stuff.
You know, there was one time I my mom was in town in Shanghai
for her birthday. So I got her a pinata to hit at
the end of the show. Yes.
(17:27):
Yeah. And it was stuffed with
cigarettes and hot Lajao hot Peppers and stuff like that.
No, there won't be any of that tonight.
I'll. I'll behave myself.
Yeah. Yeah, no, the Hong Kong audience
are pretty sophisticated. They are not really degenerates
like our high audience of English drunk English teachers.
No, no, you. Also got to remember the ticket
back then for pretty much all ofthe local shows were 50 RMB.
(17:50):
Tonight's ticket, it's 230 Hong Kong dollar, and that's
considered cheap, but it's stilla significant jump.
That's a big investment. It's a big investment, exactly.
Yeah. I'll be on my best behavior, I
promise. But now going back to yeah, how
does that help you with with comedy?
Yeah. So I mean, you just get used to
doing longer sets, you know, So it's like tonight I'll do 40
(18:11):
minutes. That's just like a that's kind
of a normal length now, you know.
Do you, do you sneak in like actual comedy bits in your in
your sermon? Oh yeah, Yeah, I do, yeah.
Give me an example. OK, so I did a sermon a couple
weeks ago. What was it about?
I'm trying to remember, I was talking about this idea of I was
(18:34):
talking about racism, right? You know, because my church is
like mostly white, right? And so sometimes.
You're in Detroit, which is a lot of black.
Right. Yeah.
So we, we're like our church is right off at Eight Mile.
Do people know what that is? Eight Mile?
It's like, it's like the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's like a mile from Detroitor whatever.
So Oscar winning movie. Yeah, I don't think it won an
Oscar. The song did.
(18:56):
The song did, yes. Have you seen that movie
recently? Not recently.
Does it not hold up? It's.
Not aged well. Why?
I, I, this was maybe a month ago, I was like, you know what,
I need to, I'm going to watch Eight Mile again.
And I watched it. It's a, it's, it's not good.
It's, it's, it's, it's not a good movie.
You know it's not a good movie. The song is a banger.
(19:16):
Yeah, the song's great. The best songs of all time.
It's a great song. It's a great song, but not a
great movie, really. It's kind of, it's like Steven
Segal kind of that level. It belongs in the DVD bin at
Walmart, you know. But as as an 8 mile resident,
yeah, of eight mile resident, does it represent dent the the
the eight mile hood well? Oh, you mean our church?
(19:38):
Yeah. Yeah, it, yeah, it does.
Yeah, I would say so. It's a it's very blue collar
church. Yeah.
You know. So you're talking about racism?
Yeah, So I'm talking. About racism, I'm trying to
remember. You kind of put me on the spot
here, but I'm trying to remember.
That's what we do on the podcast.
Yeah, exactly. I had AI had like a joke that I
had written about Adolf Hitler. And so I tried to throw that.
OK. I'm on board.
(20:00):
I tried. I tried to throw in this joke
about Adolf Hitler. Oh, I remember what it was.
I was saying that, you know, cuzthere's this thing in comedy,
like baby Hitler jokes, people know what that is, right?
Of course. So there's like this like trope
in comedy, like baby Hitler, Like would you go back in time
and kill baby Hitler or something like that, right.
Very, very tried. Tired.
Premise. Yeah, people had talked about
(20:21):
that. So in my sermon, I was trying to
talk about, you know, racism andhow Adolf Hitler was a huge
optimist and not a good guy, buthe's optimistic.
Yes, That's what that's what I'msaying.
Just to be clear, not a good guy, OK?
Definitely cutting this out of the.
Pod the podcast does not endorseAdolf Hitler, but he was an
optimist. You know, he thought, oh, you
(20:41):
know, I can make the world a better.
Place he's an ambitious. Person.
Yeah, not. Ambitious, I think is, is, is,
yeah, still appropriate. But again, let me be clear, not
good guy. So anyways, yeah, so I was
saying that what they should have done is they should have
taken Adolf Hitler to the future, to like, a Six Flags
amusement park in America where he could see all the people,
like overweight Americans eatinghot dogs and, like, you know,
(21:04):
wearing tube tops and, like, going down roller coasters.
And if he had seen Six Flags, hewould have not believe that, you
know, whites were the supreme race because they'd be like,
look at these people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I tried that during church and it, it, it flopped.
You know, it's a huge flop. Why?
I, I, I think I, I didn't go, I kind of bailed halfway through
(21:26):
it, you know? See, which is not your usual
like you usually commit. Yeah, I, I was a little thrown
off. I I I lost my nerve.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
But I explained it to some people later.
They thought it was hilarious. Obviously.
So yeah, you can insert things in.
I did my first year pastoring. I did like 6 funerals the first
six months, like a bunch of. People, is that just part of the
job? Yeah, you do.
(21:47):
People's funerals. Yeah, and a bunch of people had
passed away, like all in succession, right when we.
First started usually like like your usual churchgoers.
Yeah, yeah. So churchgoers, they passed
away. Yeah.
And I remember this one guy. It was the first funeral that I
did as pastor, and the church was just like packed.
There was more people there thanI've ever seen there ever.
Wow. It was the most.
(22:07):
There's probably 400 people. There.
So the person who passed away was probably like loved like,
like a popular person. Yeah, very.
Popular, like big person in the community or whatever.
And I tried to do a joke during his eulogy.
Yeah. And that really bombed.
Oh. Man, that was.
Really. What was the joke?
The joke was like, you know, what is heaven like?
(22:28):
What will it be like? You know, will the Detroit Lions
always be like winning the in playoffs or.
Something like that, right, Right.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't.
There is also something obviously your community knows
you're a comedian, right? Yeah, they know.
Yeah. So, but I think there is
something cringy about like someone who is trying to be
funny if you are not really familiar with them, right.
(22:50):
Yeah. Like when people are like, you
know, not necessarily like a boss or whatever, but like maybe
yes, like a pastor actually is agood example.
Like or like in our word Imam. If the Imam I was trying to be
funny. A lot of the times it's, it's
kind of cringe because you're like, dude, like just, you know.
Yeah, just read, just read the script.
Just just just read the script, yeah.
Yeah, you have to have a particular skill and you do have
(23:11):
it. But then again, if you're like,
obviously you know, if you're not reading the room or.
Whatever. Yeah.
Read the room like you're at a funeral.
Don't. It's not your comedy special,
you know? Yeah, The.
You know, our church is pretty wild too, because they know that
I'm a comedian and so they'll Heckle me during the sermon.
Oh, that's amazing. That's a normal thing.
(23:31):
You're right. Like people will shout stuff
out. Do you do crowd work with them?
Do you like Santor with? Yeah, a little bit.
Yeah. Lovely.
Yeah. It's kind of fun.
Yeah. And there's kind of like four or
five people who are like the regular hecklers, right?
What do? They say usually.
They'll just, they'll just try to throw me off, you know,
they'll shout something at me. They'll say, oh, but you do that
or something, whatever. And.
(23:52):
Which again, like I don't believe I've even been in any
like regular service before. Maybe I pass by and like while
traveling or whatever, but obviously the, at least for me,
the traditional way of like a sermon in a church is very one
way. Yeah, I don't believe like
except for like the Amen or whatever.
Yeah. Amen.
Yeah. Hallelujah.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(24:12):
Stuff like this, like someone getting in the zone, I don't
believe anyone like really hackles.
Yeah. So the fact that you.
It's not that common, yeah. It's not that, but that's cool.
Yeah, it's cool. And you know, the other thing
too is our church. Interestingly, we have a few
comics who are, like, members atthe church, too.
Yeah. So they moved to Detroit and
became, like, members of the church.
Yeah. And they were doing comedy
(24:33):
before. Yeah.
And there's one lady, she sits in the front row, actually, and
she's a comic. She's been doing it for like 10
years. So it's a very comedy friendly
church. Yeah.
Maybe the most comedy friendly church in America.
One could. One could argue.
Yeah. Yeah.
But you also have, like, in America, there's a market that
I'm sure you're familiar with oflike, like church comedians,
right? Like or like, you know,
(24:55):
religious comedians. Oh, right.
Yeah. So there's like a whole, like,
Christian comedy circuit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's like a whole world untoitself.
How does that overlap not necessarily overlap?
How does that, how much does it like come close to what you do?
Because to me it sounds like it's it's almost is kind of
close. It's a little bit different
because like Christian comediansgenerally most of the time
(25:18):
perform mostly in churches or like church conferences or
something like that. I'm a little bit weird cuz I
started out doing comedy and then went to the church world.
Yeah, and but there's some overlap.
But you also wrote a show, or you just recorded it actually.
Yeah, two weeks ago. Yeah, right.
That is I, I don't believe it's Christian comedy, but it's like
(25:40):
you. According to you, it's basically
half sermon, half comedy. Is that correct?
Yeah, so I recorded a show abouttwo weeks ago.
It's called commentary. Yeah.
And it's not Christian comedy cause I've done the show in
other places that thought they were about to watch Christian
comedy and very quickly realized, wait, wait, what is
(26:01):
this? I did a show last year in
Michigan, and it was, it was at a cafe.
The room was full and people thought like, OK, we're here to
watch Christian comedy, right? Well, then I get into it and
like, you know, they're like, wait, wait, this is not what we
thought it was. And so.
What? What when you said you got into
it, was it like more like, oh, it's a regular sermon that like
(26:22):
threw them off? No.
Or was it more regular comedy that threw them?
Off it was a more regular comedy, right?
Yeah, I see, I see. Yeah.
So this show is basically, I've taken, it's called commentary, a
blending of sermon and stand up.So I've tried to take like the
last four years of writing sermons and the craft that goes
into that and combine it with what I know about comedy and
basically try to blend the two artistic genres.
(26:46):
And do you? Believe writing a sermon is
artistic? Oh yeah.
OK, so it's not just like literature.
No, I mean, like writing a sermon is artistic craft, just
like storytelling, just like comedy, just like anything.
Yeah. There's a whole, there's a whole
way of doing it, which I didn't realize.
Yeah. When I first started, I thought,
oh, it's just like comedy. You stand up there, you talk,
(27:07):
blah, blah, blah. It's like a whole different
genre, which I've discovered. And it's been very interesting
to get good at that and figure out how to do that well.
Well, that also ties into your doctorate that you're doing.
Yeah. And you're doing it also along
the same same lines. Can you explain what your doctor
doctor will also be like? I'm sure everyone listening
(27:29):
knows I don't. You can correct me.
Doctors like bachelor's, master's, doctorate, right?
That's right, yeah. OK, so doctors like the height,
There's nothing. Higher.
There's nothing higher. In that form of whatever study,
right? Yeah.
And you. And then after that, you're
officially a doctor. I guess that's correct, yeah.
Doctorate in what? What is it?
(27:50):
What would it be? Doctorate in what?
Yeah, so the doctorate I'm doingright now is in relational
neuroscience and spiritual formation.
Oh my God, those are two big words were above.
They're way above my pay, right my friend?
Yeah, Hey, hey, give on. This is a good time to remind
folks we got a Patreon. Go ahead and give on that.
Exactly. We got bills to pay, folks.
Yes, we got bills to pay. patreon.com/O pod when?
(28:12):
We will definitely get through to talk.
Like there is obviously some chat between before or whatever
and he's like, oh, I don't want to talk, for example, I don't
want to talk about like, you know, the particular comics or
whatever. I'm going to get him to do that
on the Patreon. Oh, that's on the Patreon.
Oh, I gotcha. OK, great.
OK. Yeah.
So keep going. Yeah.
So the doctorate is, you know, relational neuroscience just
basically means like how our brains are affected by the
(28:36):
relationships we have, specifically early childhood
attachments to our parents. Yeah.
And then how that influences therelationships, friendships, love
relationships that we have laterin life.
Yeah. And how that can contribute to a
whole bunch of either mental Wellness or mental disorder, all
this stuff. Yeah, that's kind of the one
(28:57):
side of it. And then the spiritual formation
side, this is kind of looking atthe Christian practices of like
meditation and different disciplines.
Meditation. Oh yeah.
Oh, really? Oh yeah, Christians have been
meditating forever. I thought it's like, you know, a
Buddhist thing. No, there's there's lots of
Christian meditation. OK, what is that like?
What is it like? I'm not.
(29:19):
I don't know a lot about Buddhist meditation, so I don't
know what the difference is. Because I practice yoga and, you
know, sometimes it's like, you start with like 10 minute
meditation. Yeah.
So like you're sitting in one spot and you're closing your
eyes. You're doing breath exercises.
Yeah. Sometimes it's just like, you
know, notice your body and stufflike this.
Yeah. Yeah.
So there's stuff like that in Christian meditation, for
(29:42):
example, there's one type of prayer called centering prayer.
And the way you do that is you sit and you clear your mind.
Yeah. And then you have like one word
that you will pick out. The word could be just something
simple. It could be love.
Yeah. Or something like that.
Yeah. And basically you sit there, you
meditate, and every time your mind starts to wander to
(30:03):
something, yes, you just kind ofrepeat that word in your mind to
kind of bring you back to center.
Yeah. And you're essentially trying to
just clear your mind and connectwith God and yourself and your
body and all that in one. So we study things like that,
all, all that. Stuff.
How do you use this, this doctorate as a profession after
(30:25):
that? Like, what do you do?
You teach it. Yeah, so you, you can work at a
university, you could be a pastor, you could be a
therapist. You can.
And what would you like to do? Like ideally after you get it,
what would you like to do? Yeah.
So for me, I think that I've done counseling, I've done
coaching, I've done, you know, what we call shepherding, just
(30:48):
like helping people along, right?
So I think, you know, for the rest of my career, I'll just be
doing that. I'll be helping people figure
life out, you know, and using what I've learned to kind of
help that along so well. I want to move on a little bit
to the Detroit comedy scene because I think that's let's do
yeah, some of the. Something I know very little
about, yeah. But it's also like a lot of
(31:10):
funny stories you have told me we're actually over that because
it's obviously, again, correct me if I'm wrong, it's obviously
like kind of, I wouldn't say a young scene, but it's like more
like not very. It's a small scene, I think.
It's a, it's not a young scene, it's been there for a while.
It's probably a medium sized scene I would say.
But there is a lot of like what we call like the the hell rooms,
(31:33):
right? Yeah, there's a lot of, what
would you call that, like a room?
Like you're trying to do comedy,but they've got Monday Night
Football on in the background, you know, or people are eating
fish and chips and talking or somebody's having a birthday.
Yeah, there's a lot of rooms like that.
Yeah, but there's also like. That's everywhere though, right?
(31:53):
It is. They have that.
Do you? Remember Zapatas?
Yeah, Zapatas. Yeah, yeah, with all Shanghai
folks. There was a Mexican bar on
Kuashanlu called Zapatas, and someone started that open mic
there. And it was like, I remember it
because on Monday night and we would go and they had like a
Taco night or whatever at the same time.
And there's a lot of people there who are not there for
(32:14):
comedy and they don't know thereis comedy.
They're just there for cheap tacos.
And we were forcing comedy on them.
And I think the difference is that you were telling me as well
that, like, it can get kind of dicey because everyone has a
gun. Well, not everyone has a gun,
but. OK, most people do.
It's hard. Yeah.
Maybe. I don't know.
Well, sure, for the sake of the podcast, sure, we'll say that.
(32:36):
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, it can get open mic, canalways be messy, you know what I
mean? So.
But in Hong Kong, I mean, there's no guns in Hong Kong,
right? Are there?
There's no guns here. No, there, I mean there is a
very, very, very small number with a triads and obviously
that's just like that's the actual gangs based.
Yeah, yeah. So the gangs like I have seen a
(32:57):
not a shoot out like a shoot. What is it called?
Like when you shoot a window of a store.
Oh, that's a drive by. A drive by, yeah.
I have seen it myself in TST. Oh really?
The video I was like, really? Why do you think I get the fuck
out? Wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen it like and when I
asked my like. Out of curiosity, what were they
shooting? What was the store?
You were shooting a storefront that I understood later, means
(33:18):
like, you're not paying rent. Oh, it's either you're not
paying rent or you're like, you know, you didn't pay your fee.
Oh, you didn't pay your fee? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we shoot out your windows. Yeah, Yeah.
It was also like a way to destroy a business because
obviously people be like, oh fuck, this is a dangerous place.
Yeah, yeah. Like you're not going to go buy
croissants at the place that just got their windows.
Shot right yeah, I've seen it MyI was on my rooftop on Tim tutor
(33:41):
just looking over wow because I just like I.
What time of day was it? It was like 10:00 PM or
something. OK.
Yeah. And it was like, that's.
Good. You want to get it out of the
way early in the evening. You know you don't want to stay
up all night. No, and I've seen it because you
know, the, the, the wheels like the, the braking like got my
attention and I looked and then someone jumped out of an Audi,
shot a couple of of of bullets at the front, obviously
(34:04):
shattering the windows and they just got in the car and ran
away. Oh.
They got out of the car. I don't actually remember.
Maybe they shot while they are in the car.
OK. I don't remember.
Yeah. Cuz in America, drive bys,
they're kind of like the McDonald's drive through, you
know, you just want to stay in the car.
It's cold out, you know, you don't want to just roll.
Just roll the window down. You have your seat warmers, you
know? Yeah.
Yeah. OK.
(34:24):
But where you are also like, andI think you might have even
mentioned this like a few years ago.
Yeah, it was legitimately like kind of scary during COVID, you
said. Yeah, Yeah.
Because you were saying also, and I think maybe until now a
little bit, is that the cops arekind of like hands off, like the
whole city is kind of like a bitloose.
(34:44):
It's changing, you know, I mean like Detroit, I'm sure people
are familiar somewhat with like Detroit story and like going
through. Bank give us a very, very.
Okay, score. So basically 80s and 90s,
Detroit was like the murder capital of the world, right?
Lots of crime. Of the word.
Yeah, for a while there, for a while there it was, yeah.
I mean, like the 60s and 70s, a lot of companies left.
(35:06):
There was white flight. There was a lot of like just
pulling out of Detroit. And then the 80s and 90s it was,
you know, it was just kind of a lot of crime, right?
And then in 2010, the city went through bankruptcy.
So it's the only, it's, I think it's the only major city in the
US that went through like a bankruptcy.
So what does that like? It means the whole city doesn't
have money to afford services. And right.
(35:28):
Right. Yeah.
So then for a couple of years, they had like a emergency
manager. They didn't have a mayor.
They essentially had like, AI think it was like a federal
manager. Yeah.
And now things are like turning around a lot.
There's a lot of people moving in and services are way better.
There's still a long way to go. But I mean, things are quite a
bit different than they were even five years ago.
(35:49):
So, yeah, things are better. But there's still, you know, it.
It's not like Hong Kong where, right, you can just walk around
at 3:00 in the morning and just like, you're fine, right?
I mean, that's that's how it is here.
Can you do that in in downtown Detroit at night?
You can visiting you and then like I go out at a bar and walk
back by myself or whatever. You're probably living like
(36:11):
downtown. Yeah, you're probably fine, but
there's certain neighborhoods you wouldn't want to go to, you
know, yeah, after dark or whatever.
It's not a great idea. What would you like?
Would you get caught in a crossfire for example, or was it
more like? No, I mean, no, no, it's not
like the Donbass region of Ukraine or something, but you
know, but it's just, you know, you never know.
I mean, there's just certain places you don't want to be out
(36:32):
at night. You have no business being in
certain neighborhoods and right,it's just stuff can happen.
Or something. Maybe.
Yeah, it's possible. Yeah, It's not like CrossFit.
It's not like. I don't watch too many movies.
Yeah, it's not like enemy you'veseen enemy at the gates.
It's not like or the town. Yeah, it's not the tractor
factory, the enemy of the gates.No, no, it's not like that, but.
(36:54):
But yeah, bringing it back to Shanghai, when we started, we
had also our own, like, hell rooms.
And I had many of them. Yes.
But going back to what you're saying about, like, committing
to the bit and stuff like this, Yeah.
You were like, for a long time. And the equivalent of you here
would be Tammy Chen, who is justlike a comedian's comedian, OK?
And you were also the comedian'scomedian, OK, Because we just
(37:16):
like to watch you from the back of the room.
And we have in the business whatwe call playing to the back of
the room. And a lot of the times you would
do that and just like, you know,try to make your friends laugh.
Yeah. And if the audience got on
board, great. But sure, sure they didn't.
Sometimes they did you know it was fine.
Sometimes. Yeah.
But like it takes a certain level of I think commitment sure
(37:39):
to do that. How did you like?
I think the simplest way to ask,why do you do that?
Like why aren't you just doing regular standoff?
Yeah. So, you know, the real comedy
is, you know, it's not about making people laugh or telling
jokes. I mean, that's kind of a myth,
right? No, but I'll keep going.
No, I mean, real comedy is aboutcommitment.
(38:01):
That's what it really is about. You know, it's about.
And you, it's, it's about commitment.
You know, it's about putting your mind to something and then
following. It's about follow through.
I believe, I think, I believe, Iagree with you to the idea of
like it's getting getting the audience to really see what you
are saying like or to really seewhat you're thinking right, like
(38:23):
really put them through. Through Yeah, put them through
some stress. It could be stressed.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, in your case, yeah,
sure, sure. A lot of times.
But it's like, yeah, because obviously you're saying it
because it makes you laugh. Can we agree on that?
Yeah, like I enjoy it exactly, which is nice.
Yeah, it is. You know, I referenced this
(38:44):
before. Like, there is a really good
talk called Talking Funny. You might know it.
Yeah. Like Jerry Seinfeld, Louis CK
Gervais and Chris Rock. And one of them was talking
about, like, if it makes me laugh, it's now my job to get
the audience to see what I'm seeing.
Sure. That's it.
Like once the that's the job, yeah, or that's the craft.
Yeah, try to convince them that you know it is.
(39:04):
Funny to convince them that thisglass of water is funny.
Yeah. Yeah.
How good you are is like, if youactually see, they will laugh.
Yeah. Because they now are in your
head. Yeah, or they may not and and
you know, that's OK too, I guessbecause.
Well, it's not OK for a producer.
Well, it'll be, you know, it'll be painful for people, but you
(39:27):
know, maybe your comedy impactedthem or something, you know?
Let's let's mention one of those, one of those legendary
stories that I think I might have mentioned, but not when
you're on, which is the final ofthe Hong Kong International
Comedy Festival. Yeah, yeah, OK.
The one that both we both of us were on and Chris Baker ended up
(39:47):
winning, Yes. And you were like so the back.
Oh no, this is a China 1, not the Hong Kong.
Yeah, sorry, China 1. Yeah, yeah, the China one, yeah,
yeah. So the very quick version of it
is like China International Comedy Festival running a
festival. People are flying in from Asia.
It's like pretty good. Yeah, they fly in, yeah.
Fly in like big International Festival, good talent.
In the prelim you absolutely destroy.
(40:09):
Like in the prelim round, you were like, you're basically went
into the final as the favorite. Like in the gambling terms,
right? You are like the yeah, like if
people are putting money on, you're like, oh, that's my
horse. Yeah, yeah, I'm.
Gonna put money on this. They would have lost money that
night, yeah. Definitely.
So you, so again, you're like, we all know you are like the
(40:30):
guys who are coming from here, Darren, Tammy, whatever, they're
coming in. I think these guys are also in
the final. I was in the final.
Everyone was terrified of you. Absolutely.
Terrified they shouldn't have been.
Yeah, so I have a video of this as well, because you do a video
of my own set and you're. For me you have the video on
that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do.
Oh OK, I want. To see it up, I would watch.
Yeah, I would love to see. That so?
(40:50):
So you decide to go up as dressed up as Lady Macbeth.
Yeah. Lady Macbeth.
Yeah, yeah. Which by the way, correct me if
I'm. Wrong.
That's Shakespeare. Well, but it's also a set you
have never done before, I imagine.
I think. No, I've never done that set
exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. So you decide.
I wrote it. I wrote it.
You wrote it for the final. I wrote it out.
Yeah, but I want people to understand we're not talking
(41:12):
about an open mic like little jokey thing at the time.
And this is no exaggeration. This is one of two biggest
comedy festivals in all of right, the Hong Kong 1 and the
China one, where all of people are flying.
It's a big deal. You're also winning 40,000 or
30,000 or R&B. It's a lot of money.
(41:34):
It's a lot of money. You win a spot at the Comedy
Cellar, Yes. Like it's legitimately,
objectively a big thing. Yeah, it's a big thing, yeah.
So what? Just walk me through your not
just like even what you were thinking on stage, but like why?
Just your thought process. I thought, you know, I want to
do something special for the finals.
You know, I and I think somebody, I can't remember who
(41:57):
it was, one of the comics told me like you can't do like your
old bits on the finals. Oh, that comic did not want you
to win. Well, they succeeded, and
that's. Exactly.
I know it wasn't me because I liked you too much.
So. To make to do that to you.
One of the comics, I can't remember who, but he told me, he
said you can't do old bits on the finals.
(42:17):
And that was a rule. That was a rule actually, that
that is true. You couldn't do stuff that you
had done in the prelink, correct?
Yes. In the finals, yes.
But he said yeah, you can't do old bits.
You got to, you know, you shoulddo something new.
And I thought, you know, it was not a rule.
That's not a rule. Yeah, I found out later, Yeah.
Yeah, no, but you're now making it sound like.
So you got tricked into writing.No, I didn't get tricked.
(42:38):
I didn't get tricked. Yes, I sound like Donald Trump.
This is the first time I'm hearing it.
Yeah, exactly. First I killed.
Yeah, I don't know what the wrong I.
Killed. I don't know what the deal is.
The audience is stupid. Yeah, I was the best.
This is the worst audience ever.So anyway, so yeah.
So I thought, I want to write something special for the
finals. Yeah.
And so I wrote this piece. It was more of a it wasn't, it
(43:02):
wasn't stand up. We could say that.
Yeah, we can say that. Yes, we can.
Definitely. It wasn't stand up.
It was more of a performance piece.
It was performance art. But what so?
So it was Lady Macbeth. What I had done is I dressed up
like Lady Macbeth, and I had taken one of her famous
monologues. Yeah.
From Shakespeare where she says,you know, she's sleepwalking.
(43:24):
Yeah. And she's saying out damn spot
and, you know, blah, blah, blah.Yeah.
And I had taken that. And what I did is I would do a
couple lines from that monologue.
Yeah. And then I would do a couple
lines from like, female singer songwriters from the 80s,
nineties and today, right? And I would mix them in, Yeah.
And kind of weave them together in this.
(43:45):
This is also. Like a 12 minute set.
Yeah, it was lengthy. It was lengthy.
Yeah. So it was.
And you know, once you get on the bus you're, you're on, you
know, there's no, well, there's no backup plan.
I think there is no backup. Plan, I mean, you come on stage
and address like, what are you supposed to do?
You know, that's the problem. That's full commitment.
That's full commitment. You got a, you got a wig on.
Without. Yeah, like 5 minutes before he
(44:07):
could have bailed. The funny part is, I don't know
if you you probably remember it being one of the hottest bombs
in the history of mankind. I don't know if it was the
hardest bomb. It was, I think it was bad.
It was not. Great.
No, but the point is people. Didn't know what was going on.
The what makes me laugh the mostis that you actually did try to
(44:28):
bail at a minute line. Oh, did I?
Yes. OK, Yeah, yeah, Yeah, I have the
video. So you actually tried to bail a
minute line basically after the entire you did?
Yeah. It was done, it was done, it was
done and then I had three minutes left.
So you tried to get a regular machine, so the.
Problem was, first of all, if you're listening to this and
you're a new comic, let me give you a little bit of advice.
(44:49):
Yes, please. When you write something, make
sure you fill the time because if you have 3 minutes left at
the end and you're standing up there in a dress, yes, it's very
hard to go into regular material.
Which you did, you know I did. I did.
I was like, hey, what's up with airline food in China, you know?
I I think you might have gone into like a Katy Perry bit.
Yeah, it might have been Katy Perry.
(45:10):
Yeah, that was. It was singing, so it was.
Still similar. It was adjacent, you know.
Yeah, it was. Adjacent, I think maybe it was
still like a smarter choice, I think because you're like, oh,
I'm not going to change gear completely.
Yeah, it was within the realm ofsinging and stuff like.
That and it did not work. No, it didn't work.
So what happened was after the competition was over, one of the
(45:32):
judges, who was a very nice guy,he just walked up to me and just
gave me a big hug. He didn't.
He didn't even say anything. He just, he just patted me.
It's like when your cat dies or something and your dad gives you
a hug. Like, yes, he was just like, you
know, it'll be all right, you know?
Yeah. And.
I also think like this is not like, you know, obviously we're
close friends and we trust each other, whatever, sure.
(45:52):
But I I genuinely think that youyou being OK with bombing more
than most comics, it's kind of inspiring.
And I, well, thank you, MuhammadI.
Know I appreciate that like you know whatever again like I was
trashing each other sure I actually think it's like kind of
(46:13):
admirable because a lot of comics including.
Myself. That's very sweet of you.
I I think a lot of comics, including myself, are so nervous
to get every time to the next laugh so.
Right. Right.
And you're so comfortable in thesilence that is like.
Yeah, no, it's. Not Was he at peace with this?
Yeah. Yeah, Well, again, it goes back
to Christian meditation. You know, that's what comedy can
(46:34):
be, just silence, you know, justpure.
It's nice to just have a break from all the noise, you know,
And if I can provide that to people, too, you know, that's a
service. I mean, people paid money.
They may not get to laugh, but maybe they'll get a little a
mental break. But I think the difference
between you and comics bombing and which we see all the time
and whatever is that like you'reyou're bombing is deafening.
(46:56):
Cause a lot of a lot of it is like, you know, very like high
energy, very yelly, very like you, right.
Yeah, carry it with energy. Yeah.
But it's just. Like, and then when it's
silenced afterwards, it hits. It really hits.
The silence really hits, yes. Did I tell you about the time I
bombed in Shanghai last year? No.
(47:18):
OK, deal. Like this story?
So you came back and continued after many years.
Yes, yes, yes. I came back and continued
tomorrow. So, so last year I came to
Shanghai for like a week and I had just flown in.
Yeah. And I think it was my second day
there. And they had an open mic.
(47:38):
And I contacted one of the comics and I said, hey, can I
get on the open mic? And he was so excited.
He goes, Oh my gosh, yes, absolutely.
We're going to have you close. It's going to be so great.
And he starts messaging all the other comics right in Shanghai
who have never met me. Because you got to come heard of
the magic. Yeah, the legend, yeah, You got
to come see this guy. You got to come see this guy.
He's unbelievable. He's, he's amazing, you know,
and so, so I go to Sopa mic and again, it's my second day there.
(48:01):
It's like jet lag is very, very intense.
So I get up there and I literally fell asleep on stage.
I, I fell asleep. I like, I like, was so tired.
I fell asleep for I think maybe 45 seconds, right?
And somebody like patted me and they were like, are you OK?
And I woke up in this room and there's just 50 people just
(48:23):
staring at me and this hot, hot light, you know, Oh my God.
And, and, and then I kind of rambled about something or
another. I don't even remember.
I was just rambling. It was like a dream.
So then finally it hits 9 minutes and they give me the
light and I said, hey, I just saw the light, that's good news
for me. And so then I went off and it
(48:46):
was a horrible bomb and all the comics were like, that guy that
guy sucks at. That's the legend, that's the
true failure that everyone was scared it.
Was great. Yeah.
It was a hard bomb. I try to make it special when I
bomb, you know, If I can, you know?
That I agree with you with. It's always memorable.
Yeah, it's always. Well, you know, again, I try to,
(49:06):
you know, make it, you know, whatever.
I try to make it a bit serious. Maybe you maybe what we do
remember watching a show is likeor maybe the take away is
memory. Yeah.
You know, like sometimes you watch a movie or a play, right?
And even if it was good, it's not memorable.
(49:28):
Yeah. So again, real comedy, not about
writing jokes or making people laugh.
That's just a myth. Yes.
It's about creating memories, right?
That's what real comedy that. Yeah.
I don't agree with the first part, but I do agree with the
second part. I don't even think it's comedy.
It's real art, I think people. Say like, oh, you got to write
jokes. That's not true.
(49:48):
Yeah, but I mean, at the same time, you can also create a
memory by being a Gary Jackson. That's that's a memory of
everybody in the audience. I guarantee you will never
forget that day for the rest of their.
Life. No.
They'll cherish that day. You were cherished.
So very, very briefly. Gary Jackson is the comedian who
a few years ago in in Hong Kong at an open mic, got heckled by
(50:11):
someone in the audience and picked up a pint of glass of
beer and glass the person in theface right.
And while that part is this part, being funny is up for
debate for sure, right? I think we can agree that for
the audience it was very memorable.
Yeah, I mean, memorable is one way to put it.
(50:32):
Another, some may call it traumatic is another.
But that's memory as you're you're a.
Sure, traumatic memory. Yeah, exactly.
Traumatic. It's traumatic memory.
Right. Yeah.
So, you know, 230 Hong Kong dollars tonight you may, you may
have a good night. You may have a traumatic memory,
you know, you never know. It's it's spin the wheel, you
know? Just before we wrap up and we'll
(50:53):
get into this more in the Patreon.
We're also, you know, we've beenin Hong Kong for a couple days
and we've been, you know, trading stories about like the
old days in Shanghai and stuff. We have both done horrible
rooms. Around China, yes.
And you mentioned one in Hefei, I think.
Oh. Yeah, Hefei.
Yeah, Hefei. Yeah, like that's probably stood
out to me the most as one of theworst, just like describe to the
(51:16):
audience that night. Yeah.
I mean, like it was just, it wasthis dive bar in Hefei, which is
like a town in central China. Yeah.
And capital? Of Anhui province.
Oh, yeah. Capital of Anhui province.
Yeah. And I just remember every It was
weird. There was probably 100 La Wais
there. Yeah.
(51:37):
And Guilo for people. Oh, Guilo.
Yeah, Guilo. Look at that.
Learn a new word. And every single one of them was
smoking cigarettes, right? It was like a cigar lounge,
right? You couldn't even see the back
of the room because it was so smoky.
Yeah. So I mean, that was one of the
worst rooms. You might remember the show in
Quenchon where the venue caught on fire during.
And I think. Legendary.
Story. What was the name of that bar?
(51:58):
I think it was called like the flame bar or something.
What? Was the name, I don't remember.
It was it was something fire related, which was ironic.
Yes, so that that ceiling caughtfire during the show.
Yeah. Yeah.
And then you. They had a fire.
They had a fireplace. No, no, I wasn't on stage.
I don't even think I was at thatshow.
Oh, OK. But I just remember Andy telling
me somebody actually threw up onhim during the show and then the
(52:22):
and then the bar caught on fire.Right.
So I think I'm also mentioning this to try to compare those Hal
gigs to what is like in regular Detroit scene.
Oh, I gotcha. Yeah, yeah, not quite that bad,
not as big of a fire hazard, but.
Not a OK. But you will get heckled.
Yeah, you will get. Yeah, you'll get heckled.
And the other thing, I don't know if they do that here, if
(52:43):
they do this here, but they'll like Jingle their keys.
Do they do that? No.
So people pull out their keys and they'll Jingle their keys.
That means basically like, it's time to go, right?
Like I'm getting my keys, it's time to go.
Yeah. So they'll Jingle their keys at
you till you get off stage. Yeah, and that's.
Pretty brutal. One final question is you also
run the Joke gym in in Detroit? Yeah, so Joke Gym is a comedy
(53:05):
club in the basement of our church.
As far as I know, it's the only comedy club in the basement of
an active church right in America.
That's amazing. And we're trying to kind of like
poke fun at religion. Yeah, Poke fun at comedy.
It's just a very laid back environment.
(53:25):
We have a really great time. People can check it out.
The website is Joke, jimdetroit.com.
Yeah. And we have shows every month
and it's, yeah, it's a ton of fun.
If you're passing by Detroit, make sure you please do.
Yeah. You pass by that joke.
Jim Drew, thank you so much for doing this.
Thank you so much fun. Hey, it was a good time, yeah.
It was a good time. Thanks for all the stories.
(53:47):
We'll get into the Patreon, where we trash a couple of
comics that we may or may not like, including one former
person who has a certain job in America of authority that I am
fascinated by because you keep telling me about him a lot.
So I'm just gonna get you to. Sure.
Yeah, you have to pay money for that one, folks.
Yeah and yeah, thanks for doing this.
(54:09):
You are you'll be back in your kid is from China right And
you're hope we're hoping that tosee more of you and when you
come back to to China every time.
Absolutely. And thanks everyone for
listening, this has been a blast.
Followed Drew on all the stuff you are seeing in the show
notes. Follow me.
All of this stuff. We will.
(54:33):
I might do this again in the beginning of the episode, but we
have just announced, I don't believe I mentioned this at all.
We have just announced 2 theatreshows later in the summer.
Not not regular theatre shows. We're talking about huge.
So we are bringing Joe Wong. If you're not familiar with Joe
Wong, just look him up. He has 1 I believe the set the
(54:54):
comedy set with the most views on Colbert.
Like stand up comedy set 6 million views on YouTube when he
went on Colbert. He does Don Letterman.
He also hosted the correspondence dinner when Joe
Biden was vice president and he roasted Joe Biden.
This guy's an absolute legend. So he is doing 2 shows with
(55:14):
Backstage Comedy at the Kitty WuStadium at Tom Pao close to Kai
Tech Arena on the 13th and 14th of August.
And tickets are on sales, you know, on the website
backstagecomedy.com. And we also have Ben Quinlan
headlining his own theatre show on September 21st and he will be
(55:35):
recording it for him as a special and that's also on sale
right now. So come enjoy our theatre shows
and also it will be a great way to support the art in Hong Kong.
Thank you so much for joining inand we will see you on the
patreonpatreon.com slash. If not, we'll see you next week.
Thank you.
So I reiterate here, the bill isdead.
The story of this great city is about the years before this
night. Hey everybody, it's a new
(00:23):
episode of Ho Hong Kong. I'm sitting here with someone
I'll introduce in a second, but Novivek today Novivek.
I think last week we had no me. I was doing a show.
Actually, no, I was watching Nora Yang in so Nora Yang, you
(00:44):
might have heard her mention on the podcast before.
She runs spicy comedy in Shanghai and she was a young
comic when we first when she first started at Kung Fu comedy
and now she's pretty much the biggest name in comedy in in
China and one of the biggest. And her and her crew came to
Hong Kong to do a showcase at the Poly at the Polytech
(01:08):
University and at the Jockey Club Theatre.
And so anyway, I was I was watching Nora's show and it was
a lot of fun and it was good to catch up with her.
And so this week, this time, no Vivek.
And for oh man, we're going to get to it when he's back on the
podcast. But I think you guys know,
(01:30):
especially people on the WhatsApp group, Vivek is the
opening act for Jimmy O Yang in Hong Kong.
And as a time of recording, I went to the show last night and
I saw him and it was honestly like I was just like, Vivek is
older and obviously in a way, inmany ways is more experienced.
But I also had this like proud, I don't know, friend dad moment,
(01:54):
whatever it is, where I was justlike almost tearing up watching
him, like not just like do really well, but Vivek And I
will, you know, on the podcast, I will, I'll talk to him about
it because he is someone who is generally very like
businesslike, just everything iswork.
And when I saw him the night before, when he like, you know,
the gig was confirmed and he didthe rehearsals and everything,
(02:15):
he was so giddy. And I've never almost I've never
seen him like that. Like I've never seen him
genuinely like bouncing about this show and for a good reason.
He he was really excited. Obviously huge opportunity.
Colosseum is that, you know, 12,500 theater, I believe for
Jimmy's setup, it's about 10,000obviously all sold out and just
(02:36):
Vivek came out guns blazing. He's the first act like there's
nothing before him. So he is walking up to what we
call in the business, a cold room and he just gets him going,
man. He just gets him going, gets
multiple applause breaks, just absolutely destroys.
And by the at the time when we're recording right now, he is
doing the Saturday shows, which is 3 and 8:00 PM and he's doing
(03:01):
the Sundays he's doing all five of them.
So we'll get to it when when Vivek is back.
Another update that is kind of funny from my side is I had a
couple of videos on Instagram that actually is it went a bit
of, you know, viral, I guess, you know, many Hong Kong viral,
(03:21):
you know, the, the a couple of weeks ago we talked with Daniel
Fernandez about like the hate comments and all of that and I
got a little taste of that. So if you go on my Instagram,
the other Mohammed, it's not really a plug, it's just, you
know, for context, I posted a couple of videos.
I started, you know, putting outmore videos because you know,
it's what comedians do and you're not supposed to just
(03:42):
hoard all your material and people don't know if you're
legit or not, whatever. So I put, by the time this
recording, I put 3 new bits and one of them was about me going
to Manila and you know, you can see the bits or whatever.
And I got like generally positive feedback.
And then I put this other one that is related to Hong Kong
about how I made it to the xpat bubble.
(04:05):
And that went, as I said, like kind of Hong Kong viral with
over 80 comments by the time I'mI'm recording this.
And I don't want to say mixed reaction.
A lot of it is positive. Very, a lot of it is really
positive, but then the negative is also quite harsh.
So I started getting a little bit taste of that.
(04:25):
And then the third video I put, which is like, you know, making
fun of myself a little bit. I'm poor in Hong Kong, but rich
in Egypt. And again, you know, again, some
traction and you know people, you know someone for example, a
comment that got 7 likes, which is, you know, I guess
significant that seven people agreed with them.
He said, are these paid actors to laugh?
(04:50):
And I'm like, Ouch. You know, you can obviously go
on comment. I honestly, I am more than happy
to engage because you know, the between you and me that is good
for any kind of engagement is good because, you know, keeps
the algorithm going. It keeps the whatever you call
them that the overlords of of this fucking robot going.
So I'm happy for you. Everyone, please go on.
(05:12):
Just say whatever you want. You can troll me.
You can pretend that you don't like it.
Whatever it is, it will help. But you know, I had a my my
following before was built with a couple of videos that I put
from old Comedy Central tapings about they're translated in
Arabic and they're about like, you know, context was a little
(05:33):
bit more more Middle Eastern. So a lot of my followers that
the bulk of my followers are actually from Egypt, which is
great. But it's also doesn't doesn't
necessarily help me move ticketsin Hong Kong.
So the fact that I'm getting a little bit of traction in Hong
Kong is cool. So please keep that going.
Then we can we can put out more fun stuff.
So let's get to our guest. Our guest, as you can tell from
(05:56):
the title, is Drew Frehlich. Drew is is an old friend.
He has been on the podcast before via Zoom, I believe.
Drew. Yeah, that's right.
Yep. Yeah, so and Drew used to be
based in Shanghai doing stand up.
He started stand up before me, actually.
And you were pretty much at the first.
Do you remember my first open mic?
Were you there? I do, yeah.
We talked a lot about it. It was please tell me the first
(06:18):
time that Muhammad did open mic in Shanghai.
I remember they called us all together for a meeting
afterwards and they said these new comics, especially this one
guy you had a joke about come ina bowl and and I remember we
didn't remember. It's come in a bowl.
Like coming like, you know, semen in a, in a bowl, you know,
in a, you know. I have no memory of that.
(06:40):
So you know, for those of you who follow Muhammad, you may be
interested to know that for the first month he was doing comedy
in Shanghai, nobody actually knew his name.
We just referred to him as come in a bowl guy.
Well, that is new to me. New to me right now.
You can ask, You can ask. So we were like these new
comics, they're too dirty. It's a real threat to the scene,
(07:02):
which you know, but he, he, he found.
I don't, I've never even heard you do that bit.
I think he did it one time. No, yeah, it, it must have been
like, you know, obviously when you're like brand new.
Yeah, I think you had like you wanted to say that for years and
then you got it off your chest and then you started writing
real. Jokes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was good.
That's amazing. So I remember that I told the
story for, so I'm not gonna do it again, but I remember Audrey
(07:25):
Moray being the host of my firstopen mic, and man, she was a
killer. Yeah, she was great.
She had the the piano, the PowerPoint slides, the deadpan.
By the way, I'm going to put themic next to the cheesa for a
second because we're recording over cheesa so you can just hear
this. Yeah, that's how professional
(07:48):
we. Are that's right?
And we have Turkish coffee with cardamom in it.
Yes, we are. Yeah, Bond of Howick for my
buddies in Egypt. Yeah, Cardamom coffee.
And we're just having a great old time.
And it's just one of these timeswhen we just turn on the
recorder and see what happens. I wanted to comment on a few of
your recent videos. Can I can I do that here?
OK. You did watch the videos?
I don't even. Know I did.
(08:09):
I watched the videos. So I follow Mohammed on
Instagram. The other Mohammed, he already
plugged that, but I'll go ahead and plug it again.
Yes, thank you. I did watch the videos.
I didn't comment. I tend to just like stuff.
I don't really comment. I don't like to get.
I don't believe you liked eitherof.
Them no, I did. I liked them.
I will check later. Go back and check.
I'm sure I I'm sure I did. I'm sure I did.
(08:32):
I'm sure I didn't just scroll past it and go but.
You watched them? Yeah, I did watch them.
Yeah. OK.
And tell. Me your comment.
No, I, I connected with the Manila one.
I, I, I, I enjoyed it. I've been to Manila.
Yeah. And I was there for a couple
days and I like that, you know? And it was good, yeah.
Yeah, my buddy, keep going, Mikey Andreas, who is, she's
(08:54):
just going really well now, by the way, perfect.
You might hear us say that because it was like hard to keep
get it going, but now we're having a nice cloud.
My buddy Mikey Andreas was like one of the bigger comics in
Manila. He shared he actually the video
because he and he was like, I even messaged him.
I ran it past him before I put it online.
I'm like, is this going to get me in too much trouble?
(09:14):
And he was like, absolutely not.Yeah, you don't want to run
afoul of the Manila crap. Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, OK.
Do you have comments on the other one?
Well, the Manila one, I just want to say, you know, I did go
to I, I tried some of the food in Manila.
It was quite good. Yeah, it was Papa John's pizza
near the airport. Do.
You have a Wendy's there? Oh, do they have a Wendy's now?
(09:35):
OK, the other two videos were what?
You'll have to remind me. Well, one was about, I said like
the expat bubble thing. So I used to leave.
That's the one that went like quote UN quote like proper.
Volume, when did you put that one out?
Was that? June 5, So that's about by now.
It's about 11 days. Ago.
OK, OK, I got you. But yeah, like, you know, it has
right now with 40,000 views. Wow.
(09:57):
Yeah. So it's like, yeah, again, like
so I think. Yeah, 'cause I put stuff on
Instagram, you can follow me as well.
It's Freilich, under score Drew.Very easy to remember.
Very easy. I'd also be in the show notes.
But my video you know they get like 6 views or whatever.
Well, there is there is, there is something to it, Not that I
claim to know like obviously I would have more success if I
(10:18):
know really the recipe. But I do believe that this
particular one and you are a mental health counselor by by
profession. So you might agree or not.
I think you need the content that goes viral in my opinion.
It needs to be upsetting. I don't believe it's necessarily
(10:38):
upsetting. It needs to provoke an emotion.
That is. Beyond, like, I like this, yeah.
Because there's a lot of really good content.
It needs to provoke. So there's a lot of really funny
content of like, cats jumping around or whatever.
Yeah, but it needs to provoke anemotion.
So it's what I feel. There's the six big emotions.
We can get into that later too. There's six.
If it provokes one of the six big emotions, then I think.
(11:02):
That's this one. Maybe you can tell me which
emotion did it provoke because the bit quickly is about how I
used to live in Tim Tatroy and that's Kowloon and that's like
where quote UN quote the brown people live or whatever, right?
And the whole like, you know, obviously.
OK, so right there. Shame.
Yes, that's one of the six big emotions.
Yeah. Shame.
Yeah. Shame.
Tapping into the shame. Tapping into the shame.
Mine evoke boredom, which is notone of the big six emotions, so
(11:25):
that's OK. Keep going.
All right, so. And then I say I did better and
now I live on Hong Kong Island. OK, so that's anger, jealousy,
right? There you go.
Yeah, there you go. Yeah, exactly.
And then I ended by saying I'm sorry your life still sucks if
you still live there. Back to right.
Back to shame, Yeah. Right back to shame, yeah.
I can write with you around thatyou.
(11:46):
Should you should write jokes that are like shame, anger,
shame? That's a great.
You know, shame is the most powerful of the six emotions,
actually. Yeah.
There you go. So.
That's amazing. But OK, so for people who are
not familiar with you, you have such an interesting.
Which is everyone. Yes, which is everyone.
Not after this. People would be more familiar.
With it, I was on the podcast like, what was it 4 years ago?
(12:08):
Yeah, yeah, right. When I first became the pastor
of a church. Right, that's which is a perfect
segue. Yeah.
What the hell is a pastor of a church doing doing?
Also professional stand up. Yeah.
So, you know, I was a comic for,I don't know what has it been 15
years, something like that. It's been a while.
Yeah. So about four years ago, the
(12:30):
pastor of our church was leavingand they hadn't found a
replacement and. So you are just a churchgoer at.
That place, I just go to church.Yeah.
I sat in the back row. Sure, sure.
I was there. Yeah.
And he was leaving and he said why don't you be the pastor,
right? I said, what?
How am I going to be the pastor?I've never done anything like
(12:51):
that, you know, he said, Well, you're a comedian and you're a
mental health therapist that's basically a pastor.
Like, you deal with mental health stuff and you give, you
know, speeches or whatever. And so I said, you know, I don't
really know if I'm interested inthat.
That sounds really different than what I'm used to.
He said, well, why don't you do the interim pasture, which is
(13:12):
like, you just do it till they find, you know, a real pasture.
That's how they, I don't know ifyou ever watch the show Lost.
Yeah, lost. Yeah.
Yeah, right. Like I think one of obviously
the lost literally lost the plottowards the end, yeah.
But one of the IT got weird it. Got weird, but I remember one of
the good whatever, one of the good plots of the show is that
(13:32):
they were trying to trick one ofthe guys who was stuck in a
basement, was trying to trick Jack or whoever it is OK to take
over from him. OK?
And he told him the exact same thing he told.
OK. Oh yeah, the next guy is going
to come. Yeah, yeah, he's coming.
Yeah. You have to keep resetting this
so the world doesn't end. Yeah, until and then he just
fucking bailed on him and ran away.
(13:54):
Interesting. I'll have to.
I'll have to go back and watch that episode, basically.
That's basically what they did to me.
Yeah. So, yeah, so they said be
interim, you know, and it won't take long.
You know, they'll be, they'll find somebody within like a
month. Yeah.
So anyway, so they so, yeah. So I was doing it and they
obviously didn't find anybody else, right?
But I started enjoying it. I was like, oh, I kind of like
(14:15):
this job. It's pretty fun.
And so later the next year, I said, hey, listen, I'll do, I'll
apply for this job. But I got to do it with my wife.
You know, my wife is, you know, Laurie, she's very type A, very
like a leader, you know, she's aleader, you know what I mean?
She's a leader. I'm like a clown, you know what
I mean? I always say, like, Laurie,
she's like Barack Obama, and I'mlike George W Bush, you know,
(14:38):
like people are like, ah, that'dbe a fun guy to have a beer
with, you know what I mean? So, yeah, so we've been doing it
for four years. Wait, wait, wait.
Like there is now that pops a few questions like #1 is how?
First of all, I, I obviously I'mnot Christian and I don't know
much about that word. Yeah, I didn't know pastor is a
job. Yeah, it's a job, Yeah.
So it's just like a regular job.Yeah, yeah, that's what what is
(15:01):
the job description? Yeah, so you, you know, it is
you preach every Sunday. So it's like comedians, you
know, they come up with like, what, a new 45 minutes every a
couple years or something. Like that, Yeah, like that I, I
said in the podcast before, likethe highest level comedians,
like the Dave Chappelle's of theworld, they come up with an hour
a year. An hour A.
Year during every day, yeah, that's how difficult.
(15:23):
But it's tight. It's a tight hour.
Of course it's a tight hour. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Pastor, you preach every Sunday, and it's basically you
come up with a new 45 minutes every week, right?
Not as tight. Yeah, obviously.
Yes. And, you know, you can, like,
steal material from John or Paulor Moses or something like that.
You know, you can read from the book.
Yeah. But yeah, you come up with
(15:44):
basically a new 45 minutes everyevery week, right?
Which is daunting, you know? Yeah.
Of course, it's daunting, but dopeople like, like comedy?
If you're, like, recycling material, they will call you out
or like, you would feel them like checking out and stuff.
You know, Of course, we've all been there.
Yeah. Yeah.
When you're doing a bit that toomany people in the audience are
familiar with. Yeah.
And they're like, oh, here we go.
(16:05):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And the problem with that is my bits are like 25 minutes long.
That's your comedy? Yeah.
So. Yeah, so.
People check out, you know, and then you got to sit through 24
1/2 more minutes of the joke youyou've heard and are a little
stale on, you know, Yeah. So people do check out, but it's
a whole different craft. You have to figure out.
(16:25):
You you figure it out. It takes a couple years to
really, yeah, get good at it. But you figure it out and.
And how does that you find a way?
You have comedy. Well, with comedy, it's like,
you know, like tonight I'm gonnado backstage comedy.
We didn't do that. Yeah.
The main reason Drew's in Hong Kong, aside from catching up
with me, is that he's headliningby the time you listen to this
(16:45):
show's over. It'll already be over, but you
missed a lot of fun if you weren't there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, you tend to.
We had to have an agreement of you not throwing stuff at the
audience or you losing props because that was one of your
things back in Shanghai sometimes.
Yeah, back in the day, you know,I did a lot of prop comedy.
I would throw, you know, I wouldthrow stuff in the audience.
(17:07):
I was like a Power Ranger once on stage and yeah, I was like a
frog or. Something I would get like
outfits for different comics to wear and we would like we would
have a fashion show or, or it was all weird stuff.
You know, there was one time I my mom was in town in Shanghai
for her birthday. So I got her a pinata to hit at
the end of the show. Yes.
(17:27):
Yeah. And it was stuffed with
cigarettes and hot Lajao hot Peppers and stuff like that.
No, there won't be any of that tonight.
I'll. I'll behave myself.
Yeah. Yeah, no, the Hong Kong audience
are pretty sophisticated. They are not really degenerates
like our high audience of English drunk English teachers.
No, no, you. Also got to remember the ticket
back then for pretty much all ofthe local shows were 50 RMB.
(17:50):
Tonight's ticket, it's 230 Hong Kong dollar, and that's
considered cheap, but it's stilla significant jump.
That's a big investment. It's a big investment, exactly.
Yeah. I'll be on my best behavior, I
promise. But now going back to yeah, how
does that help you with with comedy?
Yeah. So I mean, you just get used to
doing longer sets, you know, So it's like tonight I'll do 40
(18:11):
minutes. That's just like a that's kind
of a normal length now, you know.
Do you, do you sneak in like actual comedy bits in your in
your sermon? Oh yeah, Yeah, I do, yeah.
Give me an example. OK, so I did a sermon a couple
weeks ago. What was it about?
I'm trying to remember, I was talking about this idea of I was
(18:34):
talking about racism, right? You know, because my church is
like mostly white, right? And so sometimes.
You're in Detroit, which is a lot of black.
Right. Yeah.
So we, we're like our church is right off at Eight Mile.
Do people know what that is? Eight Mile?
It's like, it's like the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's like a mile from Detroitor whatever.
So Oscar winning movie. Yeah, I don't think it won an
Oscar. The song did.
(18:56):
The song did, yes. Have you seen that movie
recently? Not recently.
Does it not hold up? It's.
Not aged well. Why?
I, I, this was maybe a month ago, I was like, you know what,
I need to, I'm going to watch Eight Mile again.
And I watched it. It's a, it's, it's not good.
It's, it's, it's, it's not a good movie.
You know it's not a good movie. The song is a banger.
(19:16):
Yeah, the song's great. The best songs of all time.
It's a great song. It's a great song, but not a
great movie, really. It's kind of, it's like Steven
Segal kind of that level. It belongs in the DVD bin at
Walmart, you know. But as as an 8 mile resident,
yeah, of eight mile resident, does it represent dent the the
the eight mile hood well? Oh, you mean our church?
(19:38):
Yeah. Yeah, it, yeah, it does.
Yeah, I would say so. It's a it's very blue collar
church. Yeah.
You know. So you're talking about racism?
Yeah, So I'm talking. About racism, I'm trying to
remember. You kind of put me on the spot
here, but I'm trying to remember.
That's what we do on the podcast.
Yeah, exactly. I had AI had like a joke that I
had written about Adolf Hitler. And so I tried to throw that.
OK. I'm on board.
(20:00):
I tried. I tried to throw in this joke
about Adolf Hitler. Oh, I remember what it was.
I was saying that, you know, cuzthere's this thing in comedy,
like baby Hitler jokes, people know what that is, right?
Of course. So there's like this like trope
in comedy, like baby Hitler, Like would you go back in time
and kill baby Hitler or something like that, right.
Very, very tried. Tired.
Premise. Yeah, people had talked about
(20:21):
that. So in my sermon, I was trying to
talk about, you know, racism andhow Adolf Hitler was a huge
optimist and not a good guy, buthe's optimistic.
Yes, That's what that's what I'msaying.
Just to be clear, not a good guy, OK?
Definitely cutting this out of the.
Pod the podcast does not endorseAdolf Hitler, but he was an
optimist. You know, he thought, oh, you
(20:41):
know, I can make the world a better.
Place he's an ambitious. Person.
Yeah, not. Ambitious, I think is, is, is,
yeah, still appropriate. But again, let me be clear, not
good guy. So anyways, yeah, so I was
saying that what they should have done is they should have
taken Adolf Hitler to the future, to like, a Six Flags
amusement park in America where he could see all the people,
like overweight Americans eatinghot dogs and, like, you know,
(21:04):
wearing tube tops and, like, going down roller coasters.
And if he had seen Six Flags, hewould have not believe that, you
know, whites were the supreme race because they'd be like,
look at these people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I tried that during church and it, it, it flopped.
You know, it's a huge flop. Why?
I, I, I think I, I didn't go, I kind of bailed halfway through
(21:26):
it, you know? See, which is not your usual
like you usually commit. Yeah, I, I was a little thrown
off. I I I lost my nerve.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
But I explained it to some people later.
They thought it was hilarious. Obviously.
So yeah, you can insert things in.
I did my first year pastoring. I did like 6 funerals the first
six months, like a bunch of. People, is that just part of the
job? Yeah, you do.
(21:47):
People's funerals. Yeah, and a bunch of people had
passed away, like all in succession, right when we.
First started usually like like your usual churchgoers.
Yeah, yeah. So churchgoers, they passed
away. Yeah.
And I remember this one guy. It was the first funeral that I
did as pastor, and the church was just like packed.
There was more people there thanI've ever seen there ever.
Wow. It was the most.
(22:07):
There's probably 400 people. There.
So the person who passed away was probably like loved like,
like a popular person. Yeah, very.
Popular, like big person in the community or whatever.
And I tried to do a joke during his eulogy.
Yeah. And that really bombed.
Oh. Man, that was.
Really. What was the joke?
The joke was like, you know, what is heaven like?
(22:28):
What will it be like? You know, will the Detroit Lions
always be like winning the in playoffs or.
Something like that, right, Right.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't.
There is also something obviously your community knows
you're a comedian, right? Yeah, they know.
Yeah. So, but I think there is
something cringy about like someone who is trying to be
funny if you are not really familiar with them, right.
(22:50):
Yeah. Like when people are like, you
know, not necessarily like a boss or whatever, but like maybe
yes, like a pastor actually is agood example.
Like or like in our word Imam. If the Imam I was trying to be
funny. A lot of the times it's, it's
kind of cringe because you're like, dude, like just, you know.
Yeah, just read, just read the script.
Just just just read the script, yeah.
Yeah, you have to have a particular skill and you do have
(23:11):
it. But then again, if you're like,
obviously you know, if you're not reading the room or.
Whatever. Yeah.
Read the room like you're at a funeral.
Don't. It's not your comedy special,
you know? Yeah, The.
You know, our church is pretty wild too, because they know that
I'm a comedian and so they'll Heckle me during the sermon.
Oh, that's amazing. That's a normal thing.
(23:31):
You're right. Like people will shout stuff
out. Do you do crowd work with them?
Do you like Santor with? Yeah, a little bit.
Yeah. Lovely.
Yeah. It's kind of fun.
Yeah. And there's kind of like four or
five people who are like the regular hecklers, right?
What do? They say usually.
They'll just, they'll just try to throw me off, you know,
they'll shout something at me. They'll say, oh, but you do that
or something, whatever. And.
(23:52):
Which again, like I don't believe I've even been in any
like regular service before. Maybe I pass by and like while
traveling or whatever, but obviously the, at least for me,
the traditional way of like a sermon in a church is very one
way. Yeah, I don't believe like
except for like the Amen or whatever.
Yeah. Amen.
Yeah. Hallelujah.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(24:12):
Stuff like this, like someone getting in the zone, I don't
believe anyone like really hackles.
Yeah. So the fact that you.
It's not that common, yeah. It's not that, but that's cool.
Yeah, it's cool. And you know, the other thing
too is our church. Interestingly, we have a few
comics who are, like, members atthe church, too.
Yeah. So they moved to Detroit and
became, like, members of the church.
Yeah. And they were doing comedy
(24:33):
before. Yeah.
And there's one lady, she sits in the front row, actually, and
she's a comic. She's been doing it for like 10
years. So it's a very comedy friendly
church. Yeah.
Maybe the most comedy friendly church in America.
One could. One could argue.
Yeah. Yeah.
But you also have, like, in America, there's a market that
I'm sure you're familiar with oflike, like church comedians,
right? Like or like, you know,
(24:55):
religious comedians. Oh, right.
Yeah. So there's like a whole, like,
Christian comedy circuit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's like a whole world untoitself.
How does that overlap not necessarily overlap?
How does that, how much does it like come close to what you do?
Because to me it sounds like it's it's almost is kind of
close. It's a little bit different
because like Christian comediansgenerally most of the time
(25:18):
perform mostly in churches or like church conferences or
something like that. I'm a little bit weird cuz I
started out doing comedy and then went to the church world.
Yeah, and but there's some overlap.
But you also wrote a show, or you just recorded it actually.
Yeah, two weeks ago. Yeah, right.
That is I, I don't believe it's Christian comedy, but it's like
(25:40):
you. According to you, it's basically
half sermon, half comedy. Is that correct?
Yeah, so I recorded a show abouttwo weeks ago.
It's called commentary. Yeah.
And it's not Christian comedy cause I've done the show in
other places that thought they were about to watch Christian
comedy and very quickly realized, wait, wait, what is
(26:01):
this? I did a show last year in
Michigan, and it was, it was at a cafe.
The room was full and people thought like, OK, we're here to
watch Christian comedy, right? Well, then I get into it and
like, you know, they're like, wait, wait, this is not what we
thought it was. And so.
What? What when you said you got into
it, was it like more like, oh, it's a regular sermon that like
(26:22):
threw them off? No.
Or was it more regular comedy that threw them?
Off it was a more regular comedy, right?
Yeah, I see, I see. Yeah.
So this show is basically, I've taken, it's called commentary, a
blending of sermon and stand up.So I've tried to take like the
last four years of writing sermons and the craft that goes
into that and combine it with what I know about comedy and
basically try to blend the two artistic genres.
(26:46):
And do you? Believe writing a sermon is
artistic? Oh yeah.
OK, so it's not just like literature.
No, I mean, like writing a sermon is artistic craft, just
like storytelling, just like comedy, just like anything.
Yeah. There's a whole, there's a whole
way of doing it, which I didn't realize.
Yeah. When I first started, I thought,
oh, it's just like comedy. You stand up there, you talk,
(27:07):
blah, blah, blah. It's like a whole different
genre, which I've discovered. And it's been very interesting
to get good at that and figure out how to do that well.
Well, that also ties into your doctorate that you're doing.
Yeah. And you're doing it also along
the same same lines. Can you explain what your doctor
doctor will also be like? I'm sure everyone listening
(27:29):
knows I don't. You can correct me.
Doctors like bachelor's, master's, doctorate, right?
That's right, yeah. OK, so doctors like the height,
There's nothing. Higher.
There's nothing higher. In that form of whatever study,
right? Yeah.
And you. And then after that, you're
officially a doctor. I guess that's correct, yeah.
Doctorate in what? What is it?
(27:50):
What would it be? Doctorate in what?
Yeah, so the doctorate I'm doingright now is in relational
neuroscience and spiritual formation.
Oh my God, those are two big words were above.
They're way above my pay, right my friend?
Yeah, Hey, hey, give on. This is a good time to remind
folks we got a Patreon. Go ahead and give on that.
Exactly. We got bills to pay, folks.
Yes, we got bills to pay. patreon.com/O pod when?
(28:12):
We will definitely get through to talk.
Like there is obviously some chat between before or whatever
and he's like, oh, I don't want to talk, for example, I don't
want to talk about like, you know, the particular comics or
whatever. I'm going to get him to do that
on the Patreon. Oh, that's on the Patreon.
Oh, I gotcha. OK, great.
OK. Yeah.
So keep going. Yeah.
So the doctorate is, you know, relational neuroscience just
basically means like how our brains are affected by the
(28:36):
relationships we have, specifically early childhood
attachments to our parents. Yeah.
And then how that influences therelationships, friendships, love
relationships that we have laterin life.
Yeah. And how that can contribute to a
whole bunch of either mental Wellness or mental disorder, all
this stuff. Yeah, that's kind of the one
(28:57):
side of it. And then the spiritual formation
side, this is kind of looking atthe Christian practices of like
meditation and different disciplines.
Meditation. Oh yeah.
Oh, really? Oh yeah, Christians have been
meditating forever. I thought it's like, you know, a
Buddhist thing. No, there's there's lots of
Christian meditation. OK, what is that like?
What is it like? I'm not.
(29:19):
I don't know a lot about Buddhist meditation, so I don't
know what the difference is. Because I practice yoga and, you
know, sometimes it's like, you start with like 10 minute
meditation. Yeah.
So like you're sitting in one spot and you're closing your
eyes. You're doing breath exercises.
Yeah. Sometimes it's just like, you
know, notice your body and stufflike this.
Yeah. Yeah.
So there's stuff like that in Christian meditation, for
(29:42):
example, there's one type of prayer called centering prayer.
And the way you do that is you sit and you clear your mind.
Yeah. And then you have like one word
that you will pick out. The word could be just something
simple. It could be love.
Yeah. Or something like that.
Yeah. And basically you sit there, you
meditate, and every time your mind starts to wander to
(30:03):
something, yes, you just kind ofrepeat that word in your mind to
kind of bring you back to center.
Yeah. And you're essentially trying to
just clear your mind and connectwith God and yourself and your
body and all that in one. So we study things like that,
all, all that. Stuff.
How do you use this, this doctorate as a profession after
(30:25):
that? Like, what do you do?
You teach it. Yeah, so you, you can work at a
university, you could be a pastor, you could be a
therapist. You can.
And what would you like to do? Like ideally after you get it,
what would you like to do? Yeah.
So for me, I think that I've done counseling, I've done
coaching, I've done, you know, what we call shepherding, just
(30:48):
like helping people along, right?
So I think, you know, for the rest of my career, I'll just be
doing that. I'll be helping people figure
life out, you know, and using what I've learned to kind of
help that along so well. I want to move on a little bit
to the Detroit comedy scene because I think that's let's do
yeah, some of the. Something I know very little
about, yeah. But it's also like a lot of
(31:10):
funny stories you have told me we're actually over that because
it's obviously, again, correct me if I'm wrong, it's obviously
like kind of, I wouldn't say a young scene, but it's like more
like not very. It's a small scene, I think.
It's a, it's not a young scene, it's been there for a while.
It's probably a medium sized scene I would say.
But there is a lot of like what we call like the the hell rooms,
(31:33):
right? Yeah, there's a lot of, what
would you call that, like a room?
Like you're trying to do comedy,but they've got Monday Night
Football on in the background, you know, or people are eating
fish and chips and talking or somebody's having a birthday.
Yeah, there's a lot of rooms like that.
Yeah, but there's also like. That's everywhere though, right?
(31:53):
It is. They have that.
Do you? Remember Zapatas?
Yeah, Zapatas. Yeah, yeah, with all Shanghai
folks. There was a Mexican bar on
Kuashanlu called Zapatas, and someone started that open mic
there. And it was like, I remember it
because on Monday night and we would go and they had like a
Taco night or whatever at the same time.
And there's a lot of people there who are not there for
(32:14):
comedy and they don't know thereis comedy.
They're just there for cheap tacos.
And we were forcing comedy on them.
And I think the difference is that you were telling me as well
that, like, it can get kind of dicey because everyone has a
gun. Well, not everyone has a gun,
but. OK, most people do.
It's hard. Yeah.
Maybe. I don't know.
Well, sure, for the sake of the podcast, sure, we'll say that.
(32:36):
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, it can get open mic, canalways be messy, you know what I
mean? So.
But in Hong Kong, I mean, there's no guns in Hong Kong,
right? Are there?
There's no guns here. No, there, I mean there is a
very, very, very small number with a triads and obviously
that's just like that's the actual gangs based.
Yeah, yeah. So the gangs like I have seen a
(32:57):
not a shoot out like a shoot. What is it called?
Like when you shoot a window of a store.
Oh, that's a drive by. A drive by, yeah.
I have seen it myself in TST. Oh really?
The video I was like, really? Why do you think I get the fuck
out? Wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen it like and when I
asked my like. Out of curiosity, what were they
shooting? What was the store?
You were shooting a storefront that I understood later, means
(33:18):
like, you're not paying rent. Oh, it's either you're not
paying rent or you're like, you know, you didn't pay your fee.
Oh, you didn't pay your fee? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we shoot out your windows. Yeah, Yeah.
It was also like a way to destroy a business because
obviously people be like, oh fuck, this is a dangerous place.
Yeah, yeah. Like you're not going to go buy
croissants at the place that just got their windows.
Shot right yeah, I've seen it MyI was on my rooftop on Tim tutor
(33:41):
just looking over wow because I just like I.
What time of day was it? It was like 10:00 PM or
something. OK.
Yeah. And it was like, that's.
Good. You want to get it out of the
way early in the evening. You know you don't want to stay
up all night. No, and I've seen it because you
know, the, the, the wheels like the, the braking like got my
attention and I looked and then someone jumped out of an Audi,
shot a couple of of of bullets at the front, obviously
(34:04):
shattering the windows and they just got in the car and ran
away. Oh.
They got out of the car. I don't actually remember.
Maybe they shot while they are in the car.
OK. I don't remember.
Yeah. Cuz in America, drive bys,
they're kind of like the McDonald's drive through, you
know, you just want to stay in the car.
It's cold out, you know, you don't want to just roll.
Just roll the window down. You have your seat warmers, you
know? Yeah.
Yeah. OK.
(34:24):
But where you are also like, andI think you might have even
mentioned this like a few years ago.
Yeah, it was legitimately like kind of scary during COVID, you
said. Yeah, Yeah.
Because you were saying also, and I think maybe until now a
little bit, is that the cops arekind of like hands off, like the
whole city is kind of like a bitloose.
(34:44):
It's changing, you know, I mean like Detroit, I'm sure people
are familiar somewhat with like Detroit story and like going
through. Bank give us a very, very.
Okay, score. So basically 80s and 90s,
Detroit was like the murder capital of the world, right?
Lots of crime. Of the word.
Yeah, for a while there, for a while there it was, yeah.
I mean, like the 60s and 70s, a lot of companies left.
(35:06):
There was white flight. There was a lot of like just
pulling out of Detroit. And then the 80s and 90s it was,
you know, it was just kind of a lot of crime, right?
And then in 2010, the city went through bankruptcy.
So it's the only, it's, I think it's the only major city in the
US that went through like a bankruptcy.
So what does that like? It means the whole city doesn't
have money to afford services. And right.
(35:28):
Right. Yeah.
So then for a couple of years, they had like a emergency
manager. They didn't have a mayor.
They essentially had like, AI think it was like a federal
manager. Yeah.
And now things are like turning around a lot.
There's a lot of people moving in and services are way better.
There's still a long way to go. But I mean, things are quite a
bit different than they were even five years ago.
(35:49):
So, yeah, things are better. But there's still, you know, it.
It's not like Hong Kong where, right, you can just walk around
at 3:00 in the morning and just like, you're fine, right?
I mean, that's that's how it is here.
Can you do that in in downtown Detroit at night?
You can visiting you and then like I go out at a bar and walk
back by myself or whatever. You're probably living like
(36:11):
downtown. Yeah, you're probably fine, but
there's certain neighborhoods you wouldn't want to go to, you
know, yeah, after dark or whatever.
It's not a great idea. What would you like?
Would you get caught in a crossfire for example, or was it
more like? No, I mean, no, no, it's not
like the Donbass region of Ukraine or something, but you
know, but it's just, you know, you never know.
I mean, there's just certain places you don't want to be out
(36:32):
at night. You have no business being in
certain neighborhoods and right,it's just stuff can happen.
Or something. Maybe.
Yeah, it's possible. Yeah, It's not like CrossFit.
It's not like. I don't watch too many movies.
Yeah, it's not like enemy you'veseen enemy at the gates.
It's not like or the town. Yeah, it's not the tractor
factory, the enemy of the gates.No, no, it's not like that, but.
(36:54):
But yeah, bringing it back to Shanghai, when we started, we
had also our own, like, hell rooms.
And I had many of them. Yes.
But going back to what you're saying about, like, committing
to the bit and stuff like this, Yeah.
You were like, for a long time. And the equivalent of you here
would be Tammy Chen, who is justlike a comedian's comedian, OK?
And you were also the comedian'scomedian, OK, Because we just
(37:16):
like to watch you from the back of the room.
And we have in the business whatwe call playing to the back of
the room. And a lot of the times you would
do that and just like, you know,try to make your friends laugh.
Yeah. And if the audience got on
board, great. But sure, sure they didn't.
Sometimes they did you know it was fine.
Sometimes. Yeah.
But like it takes a certain level of I think commitment sure
(37:39):
to do that. How did you like?
I think the simplest way to ask,why do you do that?
Like why aren't you just doing regular standoff?
Yeah. So, you know, the real comedy
is, you know, it's not about making people laugh or telling
jokes. I mean, that's kind of a myth,
right? No, but I'll keep going.
No, I mean, real comedy is aboutcommitment.
(38:01):
That's what it really is about. You know, it's about.
And you, it's, it's about commitment.
You know, it's about putting your mind to something and then
following. It's about follow through.
I believe, I think, I believe, Iagree with you to the idea of
like it's getting getting the audience to really see what you
are saying like or to really seewhat you're thinking right, like
(38:23):
really put them through. Through Yeah, put them through
some stress. It could be stressed.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, in your case, yeah,
sure, sure. A lot of times.
But it's like, yeah, because obviously you're saying it
because it makes you laugh. Can we agree on that?
Yeah, like I enjoy it exactly, which is nice.
Yeah, it is. You know, I referenced this
(38:44):
before. Like, there is a really good
talk called Talking Funny. You might know it.
Yeah. Like Jerry Seinfeld, Louis CK
Gervais and Chris Rock. And one of them was talking
about, like, if it makes me laugh, it's now my job to get
the audience to see what I'm seeing.
Sure. That's it.
Like once the that's the job, yeah, or that's the craft.
Yeah, try to convince them that you know it is.
(39:04):
Funny to convince them that thisglass of water is funny.
Yeah. Yeah.
How good you are is like, if youactually see, they will laugh.
Yeah. Because they now are in your
head. Yeah, or they may not and and
you know, that's OK too, I guessbecause.
Well, it's not OK for a producer.
Well, it'll be, you know, it'll be painful for people, but you
(39:27):
know, maybe your comedy impactedthem or something, you know?
Let's let's mention one of those, one of those legendary
stories that I think I might have mentioned, but not when
you're on, which is the final ofthe Hong Kong International
Comedy Festival. Yeah, yeah, OK.
The one that both we both of us were on and Chris Baker ended up
(39:47):
winning, Yes. And you were like so the back.
Oh no, this is a China 1, not the Hong Kong.
Yeah, sorry, China 1. Yeah, yeah, the China one, yeah,
yeah. So the very quick version of it
is like China International Comedy Festival running a
festival. People are flying in from Asia.
It's like pretty good. Yeah, they fly in, yeah.
Fly in like big International Festival, good talent.
In the prelim you absolutely destroy.
(40:09):
Like in the prelim round, you were like, you're basically went
into the final as the favorite. Like in the gambling terms,
right? You are like the yeah, like if
people are putting money on, you're like, oh, that's my
horse. Yeah, yeah, I'm.
Gonna put money on this. They would have lost money that
night, yeah. Definitely.
So you, so again, you're like, we all know you are like the
(40:30):
guys who are coming from here, Darren, Tammy, whatever, they're
coming in. I think these guys are also in
the final. I was in the final.
Everyone was terrified of you. Absolutely.
Terrified they shouldn't have been.
Yeah, so I have a video of this as well, because you do a video
of my own set and you're. For me you have the video on
that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do.
Oh OK, I want. To see it up, I would watch.
Yeah, I would love to see. That so?
(40:50):
So you decide to go up as dressed up as Lady Macbeth.
Yeah. Lady Macbeth.
Yeah, yeah. Which by the way, correct me if
I'm. Wrong.
That's Shakespeare. Well, but it's also a set you
have never done before, I imagine.
I think. No, I've never done that set
exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. So you decide.
I wrote it. I wrote it.
You wrote it for the final. I wrote it out.
Yeah, but I want people to understand we're not talking
(41:12):
about an open mic like little jokey thing at the time.
And this is no exaggeration. This is one of two biggest
comedy festivals in all of right, the Hong Kong 1 and the
China one, where all of people are flying.
It's a big deal. You're also winning 40,000 or
30,000 or R&B. It's a lot of money.
(41:34):
It's a lot of money. You win a spot at the Comedy
Cellar, Yes. Like it's legitimately,
objectively a big thing. Yeah, it's a big thing, yeah.
So what? Just walk me through your not
just like even what you were thinking on stage, but like why?
Just your thought process. I thought, you know, I want to
do something special for the finals.
You know, I and I think somebody, I can't remember who
(41:57):
it was, one of the comics told me like you can't do like your
old bits on the finals. Oh, that comic did not want you
to win. Well, they succeeded, and
that's. Exactly.
I know it wasn't me because I liked you too much.
So. To make to do that to you.
One of the comics, I can't remember who, but he told me, he
said you can't do old bits on the finals.
(42:17):
And that was a rule. That was a rule actually, that
that is true. You couldn't do stuff that you
had done in the prelink, correct?
Yes. In the finals, yes.
But he said yeah, you can't do old bits.
You got to, you know, you shoulddo something new.
And I thought, you know, it was not a rule.
That's not a rule. Yeah, I found out later, Yeah.
Yeah, no, but you're now making it sound like.
So you got tricked into writing.No, I didn't get tricked.
(42:38):
I didn't get tricked. Yes, I sound like Donald Trump.
This is the first time I'm hearing it.
Yeah, exactly. First I killed.
Yeah, I don't know what the wrong I.
Killed. I don't know what the deal is.
The audience is stupid. Yeah, I was the best.
This is the worst audience ever.So anyway, so yeah.
So I thought, I want to write something special for the
finals. Yeah.
And so I wrote this piece. It was more of a it wasn't, it
(43:02):
wasn't stand up. We could say that.
Yeah, we can say that. Yes, we can.
Definitely. It wasn't stand up.
It was more of a performance piece.
It was performance art. But what so?
So it was Lady Macbeth. What I had done is I dressed up
like Lady Macbeth, and I had taken one of her famous
monologues. Yeah.
From Shakespeare where she says,you know, she's sleepwalking.
(43:24):
Yeah. And she's saying out damn spot
and, you know, blah, blah, blah.Yeah.
And I had taken that. And what I did is I would do a
couple lines from that monologue.
Yeah. And then I would do a couple
lines from like, female singer songwriters from the 80s,
nineties and today, right? And I would mix them in, Yeah.
And kind of weave them together in this.
(43:45):
This is also. Like a 12 minute set.
Yeah, it was lengthy. It was lengthy.
Yeah. So it was.
And you know, once you get on the bus you're, you're on, you
know, there's no, well, there's no backup plan.
I think there is no backup. Plan, I mean, you come on stage
and address like, what are you supposed to do?
You know, that's the problem. That's full commitment.
That's full commitment. You got a, you got a wig on.
Without. Yeah, like 5 minutes before he
(44:07):
could have bailed. The funny part is, I don't know
if you you probably remember it being one of the hottest bombs
in the history of mankind. I don't know if it was the
hardest bomb. It was, I think it was bad.
It was not. Great.
No, but the point is people. Didn't know what was going on.
The what makes me laugh the mostis that you actually did try to
(44:28):
bail at a minute line. Oh, did I?
Yes. OK, Yeah, yeah, Yeah, I have the
video. So you actually tried to bail a
minute line basically after the entire you did?
Yeah. It was done, it was done, it was
done and then I had three minutes left.
So you tried to get a regular machine, so the.
Problem was, first of all, if you're listening to this and
you're a new comic, let me give you a little bit of advice.
(44:49):
Yes, please. When you write something, make
sure you fill the time because if you have 3 minutes left at
the end and you're standing up there in a dress, yes, it's very
hard to go into regular material.
Which you did, you know I did. I did.
I was like, hey, what's up with airline food in China, you know?
I I think you might have gone into like a Katy Perry bit.
Yeah, it might have been Katy Perry.
(45:10):
Yeah, that was. It was singing, so it was.
Still similar. It was adjacent, you know.
Yeah, it was. Adjacent, I think maybe it was
still like a smarter choice, I think because you're like, oh,
I'm not going to change gear completely.
Yeah, it was within the realm ofsinging and stuff like.
That and it did not work. No, it didn't work.
So what happened was after the competition was over, one of the
(45:32):
judges, who was a very nice guy,he just walked up to me and just
gave me a big hug. He didn't.
He didn't even say anything. He just, he just patted me.
It's like when your cat dies or something and your dad gives you
a hug. Like, yes, he was just like, you
know, it'll be all right, you know?
Yeah. And.
I also think like this is not like, you know, obviously we're
close friends and we trust each other, whatever, sure.
(45:52):
But I I genuinely think that youyou being OK with bombing more
than most comics, it's kind of inspiring.
And I, well, thank you, MuhammadI.
Know I appreciate that like you know whatever again like I was
trashing each other sure I actually think it's like kind of
(46:13):
admirable because a lot of comics including.
Myself. That's very sweet of you.
I I think a lot of comics, including myself, are so nervous
to get every time to the next laugh so.
Right. Right.
And you're so comfortable in thesilence that is like.
Yeah, no, it's. Not Was he at peace with this?
Yeah. Yeah, Well, again, it goes back
to Christian meditation. You know, that's what comedy can
(46:34):
be, just silence, you know, justpure.
It's nice to just have a break from all the noise, you know,
And if I can provide that to people, too, you know, that's a
service. I mean, people paid money.
They may not get to laugh, but maybe they'll get a little a
mental break. But I think the difference
between you and comics bombing and which we see all the time
and whatever is that like you'reyou're bombing is deafening.
(46:56):
Cause a lot of a lot of it is like, you know, very like high
energy, very yelly, very like you, right.
Yeah, carry it with energy. Yeah.
But it's just. Like, and then when it's
silenced afterwards, it hits. It really hits.
The silence really hits, yes. Did I tell you about the time I
bombed in Shanghai last year? No.
(47:18):
OK, deal. Like this story?
So you came back and continued after many years.
Yes, yes, yes. I came back and continued
tomorrow. So, so last year I came to
Shanghai for like a week and I had just flown in.
Yeah. And I think it was my second day
there. And they had an open mic.
(47:38):
And I contacted one of the comics and I said, hey, can I
get on the open mic? And he was so excited.
He goes, Oh my gosh, yes, absolutely.
We're going to have you close. It's going to be so great.
And he starts messaging all the other comics right in Shanghai
who have never met me. Because you got to come heard of
the magic. Yeah, the legend, yeah, You got
to come see this guy. You got to come see this guy.
He's unbelievable. He's, he's amazing, you know,
and so, so I go to Sopa mic and again, it's my second day there.
(48:01):
It's like jet lag is very, very intense.
So I get up there and I literally fell asleep on stage.
I, I fell asleep. I like, I like, was so tired.
I fell asleep for I think maybe 45 seconds, right?
And somebody like patted me and they were like, are you OK?
And I woke up in this room and there's just 50 people just
(48:23):
staring at me and this hot, hot light, you know, Oh my God.
And, and, and then I kind of rambled about something or
another. I don't even remember.
I was just rambling. It was like a dream.
So then finally it hits 9 minutes and they give me the
light and I said, hey, I just saw the light, that's good news
for me. And so then I went off and it
(48:46):
was a horrible bomb and all the comics were like, that guy that
guy sucks at. That's the legend, that's the
true failure that everyone was scared it.
Was great. Yeah.
It was a hard bomb. I try to make it special when I
bomb, you know, If I can, you know?
That I agree with you with. It's always memorable.
Yeah, it's always. Well, you know, again, I try to,
(49:06):
you know, make it, you know, whatever.
I try to make it a bit serious. Maybe you maybe what we do
remember watching a show is likeor maybe the take away is
memory. Yeah.
You know, like sometimes you watch a movie or a play, right?
And even if it was good, it's not memorable.
(49:28):
Yeah. So again, real comedy, not about
writing jokes or making people laugh.
That's just a myth. Yes.
It's about creating memories, right?
That's what real comedy that. Yeah.
I don't agree with the first part, but I do agree with the
second part. I don't even think it's comedy.
It's real art, I think people. Say like, oh, you got to write
jokes. That's not true.
(49:48):
Yeah, but I mean, at the same time, you can also create a
memory by being a Gary Jackson. That's that's a memory of
everybody in the audience. I guarantee you will never
forget that day for the rest of their.
Life. No.
They'll cherish that day. You were cherished.
So very, very briefly. Gary Jackson is the comedian who
a few years ago in in Hong Kong at an open mic, got heckled by
(50:11):
someone in the audience and picked up a pint of glass of
beer and glass the person in theface right.
And while that part is this part, being funny is up for
debate for sure, right? I think we can agree that for
the audience it was very memorable.
Yeah, I mean, memorable is one way to put it.
(50:32):
Another, some may call it traumatic is another.
But that's memory as you're you're a.
Sure, traumatic memory. Yeah, exactly.
Traumatic. It's traumatic memory.
Right. Yeah.
So, you know, 230 Hong Kong dollars tonight you may, you may
have a good night. You may have a traumatic memory,
you know, you never know. It's it's spin the wheel, you
know? Just before we wrap up and we'll
(50:53):
get into this more in the Patreon.
We're also, you know, we've beenin Hong Kong for a couple days
and we've been, you know, trading stories about like the
old days in Shanghai and stuff. We have both done horrible
rooms. Around China, yes.
And you mentioned one in Hefei, I think.
Oh. Yeah, Hefei.
Yeah, Hefei. Yeah, like that's probably stood
out to me the most as one of theworst, just like describe to the
(51:16):
audience that night. Yeah.
I mean, like it was just, it wasthis dive bar in Hefei, which is
like a town in central China. Yeah.
And capital? Of Anhui province.
Oh, yeah. Capital of Anhui province.
Yeah. And I just remember every It was
weird. There was probably 100 La Wais
there. Yeah.
(51:37):
And Guilo for people. Oh, Guilo.
Yeah, Guilo. Look at that.
Learn a new word. And every single one of them was
smoking cigarettes, right? It was like a cigar lounge,
right? You couldn't even see the back
of the room because it was so smoky.
Yeah. So I mean, that was one of the
worst rooms. You might remember the show in
Quenchon where the venue caught on fire during.
And I think. Legendary.
Story. What was the name of that bar?
(51:58):
I think it was called like the flame bar or something.
What? Was the name, I don't remember.
It was it was something fire related, which was ironic.
Yes, so that that ceiling caughtfire during the show.
Yeah. Yeah.
And then you. They had a fire.
They had a fireplace. No, no, I wasn't on stage.
I don't even think I was at thatshow.
Oh, OK. But I just remember Andy telling
me somebody actually threw up onhim during the show and then the
(52:22):
and then the bar caught on fire.Right.
So I think I'm also mentioning this to try to compare those Hal
gigs to what is like in regular Detroit scene.
Oh, I gotcha. Yeah, yeah, not quite that bad,
not as big of a fire hazard, but.
Not a OK. But you will get heckled.
Yeah, you will get. Yeah, you'll get heckled.
And the other thing, I don't know if they do that here, if
(52:43):
they do this here, but they'll like Jingle their keys.
Do they do that? No.
So people pull out their keys and they'll Jingle their keys.
That means basically like, it's time to go, right?
Like I'm getting my keys, it's time to go.
Yeah. So they'll Jingle their keys at
you till you get off stage. Yeah, and that's.
Pretty brutal. One final question is you also
run the Joke gym in in Detroit? Yeah, so Joke Gym is a comedy
(53:05):
club in the basement of our church.
As far as I know, it's the only comedy club in the basement of
an active church right in America.
That's amazing. And we're trying to kind of like
poke fun at religion. Yeah, Poke fun at comedy.
It's just a very laid back environment.
(53:25):
We have a really great time. People can check it out.
The website is Joke, jimdetroit.com.
Yeah. And we have shows every month
and it's, yeah, it's a ton of fun.
If you're passing by Detroit, make sure you please do.
Yeah. You pass by that joke.
Jim Drew, thank you so much for doing this.
Thank you so much fun. Hey, it was a good time, yeah.
It was a good time. Thanks for all the stories.
(53:47):
We'll get into the Patreon, where we trash a couple of
comics that we may or may not like, including one former
person who has a certain job in America of authority that I am
fascinated by because you keep telling me about him a lot.
So I'm just gonna get you to. Sure.
Yeah, you have to pay money for that one, folks.
Yeah and yeah, thanks for doing this.
(54:09):
You are you'll be back in your kid is from China right And
you're hope we're hoping that tosee more of you and when you
come back to to China every time.
Absolutely. And thanks everyone for
listening, this has been a blast.
Followed Drew on all the stuff you are seeing in the show
notes. Follow me.
All of this stuff. We will.
(54:33):
I might do this again in the beginning of the episode, but we
have just announced, I don't believe I mentioned this at all.
We have just announced 2 theatreshows later in the summer.
Not not regular theatre shows. We're talking about huge.
So we are bringing Joe Wong. If you're not familiar with Joe
Wong, just look him up. He has 1 I believe the set the
(54:54):
comedy set with the most views on Colbert.
Like stand up comedy set 6 million views on YouTube when he
went on Colbert. He does Don Letterman.
He also hosted the correspondence dinner when Joe
Biden was vice president and he roasted Joe Biden.
This guy's an absolute legend. So he is doing 2 shows with
(55:14):
Backstage Comedy at the Kitty WuStadium at Tom Pao close to Kai
Tech Arena on the 13th and 14th of August.
And tickets are on sales, you know, on the website
backstagecomedy.com. And we also have Ben Quinlan
headlining his own theatre show on September 21st and he will be
(55:35):
recording it for him as a special and that's also on sale
right now. So come enjoy our theatre shows
and also it will be a great way to support the art in Hong Kong.
Thank you so much for joining inand we will see you on the
patreonpatreon.com slash. If not, we'll see you next week.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.