121 | HOA Board Heroes: Why Fairness & Listening Matter Most - HOA Insights: Common Sense for Common Areas

Episode Transcript
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Dulce Warren (00:00):
Your good intentions are a great start,

(00:03):
and you need to make sure youunderstand to the best of your
ability What are in thosegoverning documents and what
you're held to account for. Andonce you sign sign up to be on
the board, your knowledgedeficit is not an excuse in a
court of law or towards the cityor towards the regulations, and

(00:23):
most importantly, towards theowners.

Announcer (00:27):
A regular highlight of the HOA Insights podcast is
our Board Heroes feature, wherewe dedicate one episode each
month to celebrate theremarkable efforts of HOA board
members. To us a board hero isone of the 2 million elected
volunteers who deserverecognition for excelling in a
role that often goes unnoticed.
Today, we're excited tospotlight one of these
exceptional board heroes andshare their inspiring story. If
you match our definition of aboard hero, or know someone who

(00:50):
does, please reach out to us ourcontact details and those of our
sponsors are provided in theshow notes.

Julie Adamen (00:57):
Hi. I'm Julie Adamen, and this is Common Sense
for Common Areas, and with metoday is Dulce Warren from
Colorado. Dulce, introduceyourself.

Hi, pleased to meet you. I love your podcast,
so it's my honor to be here andshare with others. So I'm Dulce,
and I've served as a volunteerfor my condos HOA board for
three years. Our association asa small, 16 unit property in
West Metro, Denver, and when I'mnot wearing my board member hat,
I'm a nurse. I've worked in thefield for 25 years, doing all

(01:30):
kinds of things, and now I getto work from home, which really
helps me understand the needs ofthe property and see the vendors
that come and go. Three wordsthat I would use to describe the
job be of being a board member,are responsible, objective,
fair. And I also want to throwin a fourth bonus, one, being
ethical. This really importantto me. I was a Girl Scout, after

(01:52):
all. The main story I'd like totell is how my goal of saying
yes to being a board member ledto a lot of learning and
responsible long term costsavings for my community and
fellow owners via riskmitigation.

Well, that's fantastic. Dulce, you know,
before we started recording, wewere talking a little bit about
how you got on the board. Whydon't you tell everyone how that
happened?

Well, I closed on my property in November, and
then I went to the first boardmeeting in January and and was
asked to join after thatmeeting, I was reached out to by
the two board members at thetime and, and I said, Sure, why
not? And, and like a lot ofpeople, I've learned that came
at a high cost to my sanityinitially, but it's been so

(02:38):
worth it, because this is myhome. I live here. I'm not a
renter, and it's just importantto me to make sure it's the
community I want to see

that's a terrific reason to be there. In fact,
that's the most altruisticreason you can have as a board
member. And I think most boardmembers, in my experience, they
really are trying to do theright thing. They may be going
about it in a rather strangeway, but they really, at, you
know, internally, want to do theright thing. Then there's the
other crazy people, but that's asmall percentage so. And also,

(03:09):
we were talking about the aboutthe thing that you really need
to do for people, you know,whether it's board members,
other board members, homeowners,tenants, is to listen. We'll
talk a little bit about that,because here on the common sense
podcast, we often talk about thecommunication techniques that
happen between board members andhomeowners, and the homeowners

(03:32):
can be very difficult becausethey feel so out of control
because they're not in charge.
And you are, give everyone alittle sense of the listening.

Yes, I'm in a better position to listen now,
since we went into a phase oftransition between one
management company to another,prior to February, when I began
communicating directly with ourhomeowners through a Google
account, I sent up for ourassociation and I Google Voice

(04:01):
number prior to that, the onlyway for me to communicate
directly with other owners is ifI saw them outside, which was
minimal, or during our annualmeetings, which is me minimal,
because it's an annual meeting.
So when it came to a point wherewe needed to change management
companies and I set up thoseaccounts, I really went with the

(04:22):
intention of positive changemanagement. Leaned in on some
training and skills and expertsthat I've seen when there's a
change coming, and just reallybeing positive and addressing
the people, the owners and myneighbors, the way I would want
to be addressed. So just realfriendly, but direct and with a
plan of what they could expect,to the best of my knowledge.

(04:46):
Well,

so that's really good communication is what
you're talking about, as well aslistening. You're communicating
what is appropriate informationthat they can make their
decisions on, or how they viewthe association. Would you call
yourself a politician?

Them. I think I'm learning to be

the best board members. Have to be you, our
politician. I don't mean thatthe bad sense. I just mean
because people, people, people,everything is people. The hard
skills that to be in managementis, you know, financials have to
get prepared, reserve studies,done, all these regular things
that we do. But it's those softskills that really make the
difference between reallyeffective board members and ones

(05:26):
that are just kind of scrapingalong. Now you are a nurse. Can
you tell me if that training hashelped you?

Absolutely. I've had the honor and privilege of
being in several different typesof roles, being, you know, a one
to one caregiver in people'shomes, doing, you know, long
term Home Health Nursing. I'vealso been a labor and delivery
nurse and nurse practitioner inthat type of OB setting, and
then also having a big team tosupport during the covid

(05:58):
pandemic as an infectiousdisease nurse. So you can only
imagine what people expectedneeded from me as a partner and
as a leader. So I really learnedfrom those experiences that when
people are really upset, youreally just have to listen and
have a goal of a shared goal, inmind of safety. And in this

(06:20):
case, for HOAs, the shared goalwould be safety, also and and
harmony, and, you know,maintaining property values, but
really peace. And I've kind of,you know, just the lay of the
land for my community, everyoneis pretty private. A lot of the
owners and renters have beenhere for, gosh, I know one owner
said they've had a rent for 13years. And so what I've observed

(06:43):
is everyone wants the same asme, is kind of peace and
privacy. So keeping that inmind, I kept that messaging very
focused. I think I'm deviatingfrom the question, but I just
try to be really respectful.

Yeah, no, you were, you actually, you were
right there on it. I really wantto key in on the word you said
was peace, which is sointeresting. You don't hear that
very much in the HOA managementworld, whether you're managing
as a manager or managing as aboard member, because you're all
in the administration of thecommunity, you never hear that.
You'll hear harmony, but youwon't hear peace. And actually,
when we first started talkingbefore we recorded, you kind of

(07:18):
exude that, but it's just thiscalm, focused kind of demeanor
like, Well, you're a nurse, sowhen the bombs are going off on
either side, you're just rightthere. Yeah,

yeah. Thank you for that. And some of that is me
infusing my value of wanting tobe left alone into the
community. No, I'm not

saying standoffish. I just want peace.

I do. I do. I wave to people, but really I, you
know, my role here is not to beyour best friend, that I'm not a
dormitory Ra. I don't want to bein people's business. I hear
what other friends of mine havetold me about their HOAs from
people citing them for havingsomething they perceive as tacky

(08:01):
on their patio, and that is notme. If it's beautiful to you and
it's not trash attractingsquirrels, you do whatever you
think you want to do. I'm notthe you know, visual police
here, as far as that goes. So Ireally just want people to feel
like this is their home, becauseit is and respect that I like my

(08:25):
patio chairs, and I hope peopledon't mind them. In your

association, you must have normal kind of
guidelines or rules andregulations that most
associations do, like, you know,you can't have to have flowers
in the pots for weeks at a timeor something like that. Or do
you not? Ours

aren't that specific. They're pretty old and
haven't been updated in a longtime. As it pertains to that, we
did do a recent amendment to ourdeclarations that has to do with
an insurance issue. But otherthan that, one of our documents
is photocopy, scanned in, andthey are typed. So

seen them, yeah, kind of scanned in sideways.

So there really aren't down to the nitty gritty
of of what? Because I know someof it, it's a certain color.
They're familiar with some ofthat, but it really isn't. And
so I think it's up to how nittygritty people want to be,

yeah. Well, you know, what you're trying not to
be is micromanaging, whichthere's a thing that ticks
people off more than trying tomicromanage them. On the other
end, sometimes there's someonewho needs a little
micromanagement, because, youknow, their cars up on board.
Whatever I just said, where youare is that it's relative,
relatively affluent. I'm justgoing to use that word for lack

(09:40):
of something else, because youonly have 16 units, right? And
16 units in four buildings, andthey're long established, so
people just seem to have thesame kind of Zen, if you will,
who live building, which isreally great, because usually
those folks for now don't needany. Kind of micromanaging until

(10:01):
somebody new moves in, maybe,but until that time, things can
just kind of work as they worknow. Now let me ask you this,
have you ever had to deal with acomplaint from one owner against
another?

Yes, that's currently happening, and it's
understandable, and we havedressed it. It specifically has
to do with an area of parkingthat one specific unit, because
it's one of the larger unitsdoes have in our in our
governing documents, it is veryclear that there is a special
parking spot for them. And thisindividual is it's not happy

(10:35):
that some of the neighbors parkat it, park in it, that being
said, these units, this condoassociation, was established
over almost 40 years ago, andthere was never anything done
that we now have in the workssuch as stenciling and marking
that space. So I don't feel it'sfair to suddenly punish people

(10:59):
when there's no signage andthere's no markings, have

they been doing it for years?

Parking in the spots? I think maybe it hasn't
been an issue until recently.
You know, because there's morevisitors to this one owner, they
seem to be a matriarch in theirfamily, and I think it's
wonderful they have visitors,and it's not every time, because
I can see that spot, but itbothers this person, and they do
have property rights to it, andalso it's not marked. With our

(11:24):
new property manager, we we havethat as one of our projects in
progress, to get it marked, andI let the owner know that, yes,
I hear you totally we need thatspot open for you, for when your
family comes and and, yes, sothat's in the works, and they
seemed okay with that, so we'llmake sure that project gets
done. But if it's not marked, Idon't think it's fair for

(11:48):
strangers to know that it's notvisitor Park. I

think that's really reasonable. And the fact
that you are, you actuallyphysically going and talking to
people, I'm sure you are, butyeah, not

for that, not for that

email,

uh, we did send out an email just to let people
know, and copied it directlyfrom the declarations document
that those two specific unitsthat have more space are
entitled to more spots. And so Idid copy and paste that and then
linked or attached the documentfor reference. But not everyone

(12:23):
reads their emails, and we havea plan, and I did put in the
enforcement of it in violations,but really, truly, until that's
March, which will be doneshortly, I am not in the
business of punishing people whomay not read their emails or
share emails with theirvisitors.

So in this time of trying to create peace that you
like, and I just love thatagain, I love it, but it's just
so unusual that that'ssomebody's mindset. Is it? So in
this time, what is probably theworst thing you've had to deal
with so far? If it was theparking issue, you're very like,
Lucky.

It kind of is the parking issue. It is the parking
issue, snow removal. There wasanother owner. I mean, people
are pretty copacetic around herebecause they've lived here for
so long. And there's precedingAirbnb and short term rentals.
There was already a clause inour governing documents. It says

(13:18):
no lease is shorter than sixmonths. So everyone pretty,
pretty much is stable. Somebodywas pretty upset that during a
major snow storm that wasunexpected, that dumped a lot,
the snow removal vendor didn'tcome until 3pm and and they had
to shovel, and they wanted to becompensated. So, you know,
discussion and email with withthat individual, and thank them

(13:39):
for being a good neighbor thatthis is shared property and we
don't get reimbursed for caringfor our own property. And thank
you so much again, and it's abig snow storm, but that's that
seems to be it. Assessments arealways something people complain
about, and it's my money too, soI get that, and also inflation
and so explaining people all thereasons the assessments had to

(14:03):
go up, namely, insurance costs,among other things, and wanting
to have a savings so they don'thave to fork out $2,000 in the
future for something. You know,they seem to go oh and but it's
that change management and beingable to speak directly to my
fellow owners without the otherproperty management company

(14:24):
interceding, I think has beenvery fruitful, because I live
here and and then my demeanor,like you said, just being
respectful and trying to bereasonable, calm,

very, very calm.

Unknown (14:35):
I do. I try to

do everything. I mean, it's you could, well, you
couldn't do everything you'vedone as a nurse, I mean, you
just listed a huge thing withouthaving that chill kind of vibe
about you, you have to

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Let me ask you, does your association put out a
newsletter or an E blast? Idon't mean like a written, you
know, not like a printnewsletter, but e blast or
anything.

I don't think historically, they have and they
haven't. Recently, the onlything we would get was kind of
an automated email would be fromthe previous property management
company that they would send outto everyone about if it was
going to freeze, to leave yourpipes, you know, open a little
bit, or, I don't know, ordelayed trash pickup due to
holidays. That's really it. SoNo, and I'm not sure that that's

(15:56):
something that would be receivedwell, or is needed here, I
haven't got anyone asking forit. It's really the snow, the
parking space and dumpstersbeing overfilled. Oh, that's a
big issue, but we're solvingthat. And so how are you solving
the gap? We're solving thatbecause I can see it right out
my window, and

the stork resident, I

could see it on my kitchen window so I know when
it's full. And I had heard fromthe previous management company
a couple times. They reached outto me and said, Hey, do you want
to go to three times, threetimes a week for trash because
you've gotten an overcharge? AndI said, Well, how many times has
this occurred over the lastyear? And they said, Two. Well,
to me, that doesn't seem likeit's a problem because I really

(16:42):
didn't see it. And the two timesI had seen it was around
Christmas time, so kind ofexpected in one other time, when
there are new owners, where Isaw they were doing some
remodeling that apparently hadbeen going on more than I had
noticed, because I didn't alwayswork from home. Yeah, so with
our and I just said, if it'shappening more often, please
tell me, and I wouldn't get aresponse, which was not uncommon

(17:04):
with the previous company. Youknow, it was frustrating. So
with the new company, the theguy we have is just so
responsive and and that's all Itold him, We wanted someone to
communicate. And he thought,That's it. I'm like, Yeah,

it's really it, yeah, phone call return to be
nice. Wouldn't it be Oh, he'she's

great. Amy looks in the neighborhood, and he
lives a small operation. So hesaid, Hey, I sent you an email
with all the pictures of theoverages you guys have had, and
it's only been when the lid sixinches, and that's just not
okay. And I'm going to talk tothem. So in the short time that
we transitioned to the newmanagement company and

(17:43):
bookkeeper. This is currently inprogress. I just signed the
contract for the trash pickup.
We went from two times a week tothree times a week. Got a
loyalty discount, and because wehave recycling and they're
merging that account, which Iguess it wasn't, and changing it
to a residential account, we'resaving $100 going from two times
a week to three times a week. Soyay. Yeah.

And you would have expected your previous company
to figure that one out, likethey should know that kind of
thing if you deal with the samevendors all the

time, yeah. When I asked, well, how often is this
happening? The response from theowner of the company was, you
can check it out yourself, ifyou want, and call the garbage
company yourself, on

behalf of our entire profession. Sorry.

I just was kind of like, well, our contract with
you is ending in two weeksanyway. And I just said, Okay,
thank you. Oh, that's

what. He already knew he was terminated. That's
why he had that answer. But it'sstill highly unprofessional.

The whole time I've been here, there's a
typical answer. And so Ithought, Okay, this is just
affirming my decision. Oh, andone thing I just wanted to touch
on for any board members outthere listening is something
else in my tool belt, maybeabout my calm as I was a high
school teacher for five years,and and I ran a CNA program, so

(19:04):
I had teenagers, and learned alot through that experience. And
then also I was a professor in anursing program. And so to be
able to listen and be fair andwhen it's high stakes for a
large group of people issomething I've done several
times, so it's always achallenge, but just leaning in
on those experiences has reallyhelped. But it's higher stakes

(19:27):
here, because these are people'shomes. They're not apartments,
and this is their place ofsolitude. And I really try to
respect that to the end, that Iwant it to be respected for me.

Yes, you know, we always in our end in the
industry, your end or our end ofthe industry, and the management
side of it is that everything isso personal to people, because
it is personal you're dealingwith their money and their
living arrangements, and theirliving arrangement is typically
the largest thing they're goingto own in their life, you know,
and that's the thing they'recounting on appreciating over a
period of time. And so to havethat kind of action. Attitude

(20:00):
is, is one that's really goingto help, because it is personal.
I know from us absolutely on themanagement end, especially
younger managers, because theyjust haven't had that life
experience yet. I startedmanaging when I was 26 or so,
and hard to believe, since I'monly 35 but lo these many years
ago, you know, and you justthink you know everything. When

(20:22):
you're 26 or 32 you just knoweverything. And then you get to
be about 50, you're like, Ohman, I should have handled that
differently. But it's kind offunny, because your profession
has allowed you to develop this.
And when you said you lean intoit, I think that's really good
advice, because most of theboard members have had something
professionally that they havedone, or maybe they've been a
stay at home mom with littlekids lean into that too, because

(20:45):
often, yeah, it's like dealing,yeah, it is a skill set, and you
know, most of the skills thatpeople develop do transfer
somewhere into being a boardmember. So let me ask you
another question, and you cantell the board members out there
who are listening from one ofyour own board members. What is
the biggest piece of advice youwould give to someone

(21:07):
considering being on theirboard? Listen to this podcast. I
didn't pay her to say thatreally

know that your good intentions are a great
start, and you need to make sureyou understand to the best of
your ability What are in thosegoverning documents and what
you're held to account forbecause you will be and once you
sign, sign up to be on theboard, your knowledge deficit is

(21:36):
not an excuse in a court of Lawor towards the city or towards
the regulations, and mostimportantly, towards the owner.
So towards

the owners. Yeah, I was just going to say that
because it's difficult for allboard members out there. You
know, you've got this big thing,thick thing of paper, the
bylaws, the CCRS, and then youmight have rules and regulations
and architectural guidelines andpolicy manual, blah, blah, blah,
all this stuff. It's a lot. Itdoesn't mean you have to
memorize everything, but youshould be familiar enough or

(22:06):
have someone on the board whocan answer to speak to almost
anything in those documents.
Because there is nothing worseas a board member than being
caught flat footed at a meetingwhen someone asks you, I'm not
saying they're being a jerkabout it, but they're asking
you, well, what says that wehave to do X, and then you
could, well, that has to do withadministration, so it's probably
in our bylaws. In fact, let melook it up so this that that

(22:29):
general Familiarity isincredibly important, incredibly
Yeah, and not that you have

to memorize it. So I don't want to put that on
people, because have thingsmemorized, but humility is key.
That's a great question. I'mgonna need to get back to you,
because I I'm sure there'ssomething I don't have a
memorized. So just being open.
There's no need to be a know itall. And, no, you

don't have to. And in fact, if you try to be the
know it all and you're faking itor winging it, I guarantee you
someone's gonna catch you up andyou're gonna look even worse. I
tell the same things drive alarge suite of online courses
for board members, actually, butas well as for Association
managers, and that's one of thethings always, if you don't have
the answer, just say you don'thave the answer. And get to say,

(23:16):
I'll get back to you, but youhave to get back to them. If you
don't, you lose credibility as amanager or as a board member,
and as soon as, especially boardmembers, as soon as you lose
credibility, I mean, then thehomeowners just won't have a lot
of respect for you. Yeah, I just

try to keep that in mind. How would I perceive
me? And just not beingdisrespectful and setting a
boundary when needed, but beingbeing direct and kind about it,
and explaining why it'simportant. Because I've had to
do that

too. Yeah. And so for everyone to if someone
missed the first part, they'llsay as they have 16 units. So if
you're living in a 1500 unitcomplex, it might be you still
have to do the same type ofthings, be respectful,
communicate, well, you may notbe as personal for that many
units. I mean, she could havealmost a personal relationship

(24:05):
with all the people who livethere, or at least knows them on
site, probably by name. I livein a 2000 unit Hoa, and there's
no way they can know everybody.
You'd be surprised. They know alot, but there's no way they
could know everyone. So so theselarger associations have a more
of a communication strategy thatis written, meaning email.
Occasionally we still get, youknow, hard paper stuff, because

(24:26):
we do have a lot of older I'm ina 55 and better community, also
known as God's waiting room,but, but it's great here. I
really like it. But as thecohorts are getting a little bit
younger, so the 80 somethingstart to move out, and I'm in my
60s, so the 60s are, were theyoung people around, you know?
And so we're like, don't send itto me snail mail. I want an

(24:48):
email. And so they have reallyanswered that. But no matter
what Association you're incommunication is absolutely key.
Robert and I talk about it allthe time, so you'll say we're
almost. Done. Our time is almostup, so why don't you give the
Board members your last words ofwisdom on being a board member?
Why to do it and what actuallyis great about it?

Because it can't be. I think you should do it
because it's your home, and ifyou care about your home and
your piece, because that'simportant and the harmony of the
association, you know yourproperty value. Maybe you don't
plan to live there forever, thenit really behooves you to be on
the board to make that changefor positive Living Environment
and Community and your city.
Just make all of it a betterplace. On the granular level,

that's why I would encourage you to do it. Is be
part of that change you want tosee. But really, it's true, that
makes a difference. It does makea difference. I completely
agree, you know. And sometimes,if you just clean up your own
backyard, things look better.
And I mean that the large sense,you know. So if more people had
that attitude about theircommunities, whether it's a city
or a small town, I think we'dall be better off. And the next

(25:56):
thing is, of course, the bettercommunication and striving for
some sort of peace, because youmay have noticed that we are
living in very polarized times.
Yes, I can't even believe whatgoes on. Yes, so much of the
time, and in the industry,people are not becoming board
members. And in fact, we'rehaving a very difficult time

(26:19):
finding people to be boardmembers, or keeping them on the
board for not just more than oneterm, but to finish a term out,
it's become very difficultbecause of how they get treated
as board members.

Thank you, and I would just add to that, what I
learned recently is, if there'sno one on the board, then the
court takes over the board. Andso I would give that information
to people who are considering ittoo. If you, as an owner on your
own property, want to makedecisions and not have a court

(26:52):
make the decisions for you, andas a homeowner, then you should
definitely be on the board. Ididn't even know that when I
joined, but now that I know thatI will definitely

it's basically receivership. It goes in, yeah,
receivership.

Unknown (27:05):
Thank you for that term. Yeah, I learned that, oh,
oh boy, oh yeah, boy. And yeah,

there's difficult times, and I've had to set
boundaries with a few people.
Please don't contact me on mypersonal number, etc, because
I've never given it out. Butpeople can find it. So setting
that tone in a respectful way ischallenging, but I just think
it's important. This is my home,and I want to be in charge of
managing it, not some stranger.

(27:32):
So that's why I'm on the board,because I have an ethical
intent, and I think people seethat and

over obligation and ethical

obligation. So do it because I think it's the
right thing to do if you careabout your home and you don't
have to do it forever, and youcan be the face of HOAs are not
terrible.

Yeah, that's right, because they're not.
People always think they are,but they're not. They can be
challenging, but I just say it'sit's not challenging. It's kind
of a it, you'll never be bored.
How about that? No, no, never oneither end, either end. Well,
don't say this has beenabsolutely delightful to get to
know you, and this is it forcommon sense, for common areas,
stay tuned to the podcast. We'reeverywhere that you can get your

(28:12):
podcasts, from YouTube toSpotify and everything in
between. So for everyone outthere, have a great day and get
on your board.

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121 | HOA Board Heroes: Why Fairness & Listening Matter Most

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}121 | HOA Board Heroes: Why Fairness & Listening Matter Most