Brian O'Neill's Remarkable Life Story

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Brian O'Neill's journey from surviving a near-death experience to becoming one of Pittsburgh's most beloved columnists reads like a chapter from a novel – except every word is true. 

At 23, O'Neill was sucked through a storm drain pipe during a flash flood in Danville, Virginia, an experience he recounts with both terror and humor. "I honestly thought God was going to kill me in a sewer in Danville, Virginia," he shares. This brush with death unexpectedly launched his journalism career when his published account caught the attention of editors at larger papers, eventually leading him to the Pittsburgh Press in 1988.

For 32 years, O'Neill chronicled Pittsburgh through his distinctive columns, developing a deep appreciation for what he calls "The Paris of Appalachia." His perspective on the city's unique position – straddling the Northeast, Midwest, and South – offers profound insight into Pittsburghers' character: "They have the work ethic of Midwesterners, can get in your face like Northeasterners, but they're also friendly like Southerners."

Baseball emerges as O'Neill's lifelong passion throughout the conversation. From witnessing Willie Mays' first home run as a Met to analyzing the Pirates through his "Stats Geek" column, O'Neill represents the quintessential thoughtful fan. His memories of the electric 2013 Wild Card game and appreciation for underrated Pirates like Brian Giles and Jack Wilson speak to someone who understands baseball's soul – its unpredictability and personal stories beneath the statistics.

What truly shines through is O'Neill's storytelling gift and authentic love for Pittsburgh. Whether recounting his humorous feud with former County Coroner Cyril Wecht or explaining how he fulfilled his childhood dream of living close enough to walk to baseball games, O'Neill demonstrates why his perspective resonated with readers for over three decades.

Join us for this remarkable conversation with a true Pittsburgh treasure. What strange twists of fate have shaped your life? We'd love to hear your story in the comments.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
that's the sound of hold my cutter right there.
That's, uh, the, the theme song, uh, the theme music of hold my
cutter here at burn by rockypatel.
Michael mckenry has picked outfor another irishman.
If you've been watching orlistening to a recent podcast,
you might've heard the otherIrishman that we had on here,
but this guy is special.
So, michael, you went with theEmerald for Brian O'Neill, the

(00:32):
esteemed author and longtimecolumnist for the Post Gazette
and Pittsburgh Press.
Why the Emerald?
I was studying.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Irish history.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Dushet.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Dunshat Mac Brian, okay, and Dushet Dushet Mac
Brian, okay.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Dushet, a famous king in Ireland this was his
favorite, so I was like we gottago with it.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
We got Brian on the podcast, we've got the king,
king O'Neil, and I think there'ssome relation there.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
I haven't put it together.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm still working through the map, but we'll get
there.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
Don't you feel like a king here?

Speaker 1 (00:59):
you feel like a king sitting here, don't you?
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:01):
you look like a king, yeah I feel, I do feel like a
king.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I love it uh, tell us about, first of all, how long a
couple years retired now Iretired uh in the summer during
covid, so it's been five yearsyeah it's a really good time to
retire.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
It was yeah, all the handwriting was on the wall.
That was time to to go.
So I'd written a column inPittsburgh for 32 years and I
said everything I wanted to say.
It seemed like a good time tosay goodbye, so I said that, Do
you miss it?
I don't.
No, I don't.
I really enjoyed it while I didit and it was a great job.

(01:41):
It was a privilege really, butI don't miss it.
I enjoy retirement.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
I find plenty to do.
Do you write on the side as ahobby?

Speaker 3 (01:53):
A little, yeah, occasionally, but nothing, you
know.
I've been trying to write somefiction which is like the
equivalent of those guys who putships in bottles.
You know the odds of it goinganywhere are pretty slim, but
it's just fun.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Do you know how they do that?
By the way, how do they put thebottle.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Oh, I thought you knew, I thought you knew.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
No, Actually I do.
I figured one of you guys.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
You guys are so smart I saw it once on a YouTube or
something they lay the masksflat and they can squeeze it
into the bottle I guess theydon't complete the bottle and
then, once the ship's in there,they bring the mask back up and

(02:39):
then they close the bottle.
It seems like it's cheating.
It is cheating.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I didn't know that.
I thought they had these littletweezers or something it could
be.
I just made it seems like it'scheating.
It is cheating, I didn't knowthat absolutely.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
I thought they had these little tweeters or
something it could be.
I just made it up.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
But hey, it sounded, sounded great, it's like magic
tricks.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Magic tricks are cheating, right.
Uh, so about 32 years as acolumnist for the press and the
post, because it wouldn't getinto the book that you wrote a
few years ago, the paris ofappalachia, pittsburgh in the
21st, because there's aparticular chapter on the
pirates and the Steelers.
But we'll get into that andthat's why I asked you about
like writing on the side if youhave any aspirations about

(03:13):
trying to do another book.
But how did you end up, brian,in Pittsburgh in the first place
?
Because you're not aPittsburgher initially.
What Jersey?
Where are you from?
Long Island actually.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
Long Island, or initially what?
Jersey?
No, long Island, actually LongIsland.
Okay, yeah, so yeah I went.
I grew up on Long Island, likedLong Island.
I was a Mets fan in those days.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Is that standard?
By the way, Brian, Is thatstandard?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
Long Island guys, there were a lot of Yankees fans
around too, but I that's a realfight too, isn't it?
Yeah, oh yeah, you can't be both.
And.
But I learned that's a realfight too, isn't it?
Yeah, oh yeah, you can't beboth.
And I learned the differencebetween good and evil early.
So I went with the Mets, so Iwent to Syracuse, and then I was

(03:57):
looking for a job and a friendof mine had gotten a job in a
place called Danville, virginia,which, uh, if you know the song
, the night they drove Dixiedown, I wrote it wrote on the
Danville train.
So, it was the last capital ofthe Confederacy.
It was culture shock for me,but it was a good place to learn
because the city government wasboth incompetent and corrupt.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
So it was funny to write about and then I, so it
kept you busy, I like that yeah,I got, I recommend this now to
all young journalists.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
And then I kept you busy.
Yeah, I got, I recommend thisnow to all young journalists.
I got caught in a flash floodand got sucked through a storm
drain pipe came out the otherside hung on to a tree for a
couple hours, like Willy Wonka.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Did Willy Wonka do that?
That kid in the chocolate thatgot stuck.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah, I came flying through this what in a flash
flood september 1979?
This isn't true.
It's absolutely true, and uhyeah, you recommend this to kids
I do, because it got me a jobat a bigger paper.
I wrote a story.
I wrote a story about it and,uh, I wound up quitting my job
with the editor a month laterfor ethical reasons.

(05:05):
And I was home, you know,watching the gong show and my
editor ran into a guy.
There was a job opening inBlacksburg, virginia, and he
said, well, brian O'Neill'spretty good.
And he said, well, we'relooking for someone a little
older.
You say he's 23.
He said well, he's the guy whogot sucked through the sewer.
Oh, really that was a goodstory.
No way, that is wild.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
That is unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
There's so many diggings going through my head
right now.
That is crazy Is.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Dune Shaq McBrien.
Did he ever do that?
I bet?

Speaker 2 (05:33):
not.
I don't think they had goodplumbing back then.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
He is the king that would have been.
No, that's absolutely a truestory.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
That's incredible what was going through your
brain it was scary.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
You know it was water's no joke.
No, and you find out.
Like I'm from long island,there are no rivers to speak of,
so I was playing.
Everybody worked we're allfresh out of college in at this
small newspaper, so we workedfour to midnight and we usually

(06:08):
played cards afterwards and uh,you know beers and cards.
And I left the party duringthis electrical storm and uh,
we're listening on the radio.
It didn't say flash flood andhe said electrical storm too.
There was an electrical storm.
Yeah, so I drive, I get into myvet.

(06:28):
I was driving a vet then it wasa Chevette, but I always like
to say oh, that's good, AChevette.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
You were driving a vet.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
That's a vet.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
That's good, so I drive down.
I have no idea.
Corvette is, yeah, a Chevette.
They didn't last.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
They were like slightly above a Pacer, yeah
yeah.
But anyway, I drove to thebottom of the hill.
I had to cross the river to getto my apartment and when I hit
the light, my car startedfilling up with water.
And when I hit the light, mycar started filling up with
water and I got out of the carbecause you know, there was

(07:10):
things floating around thedashboard and I knew enough
science that sitting in waterduring an electrical storm is
not a good idea.
So I sloshed through the waterand I go back up the hill to my
friend's apartment, which I hadjust left, and, um, I'm not

(07:31):
making very good headway causeI'm in waist deep water.
And I and I thought, and don'tdo this, kids.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
You're going uphill too right I'm going uphill.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
How old are you again ?

Speaker 3 (07:39):
I'm 23.
Okay, and uh, I think if I Iget on the shoulder of the road,
the water won't be as deep andI can run faster.
So I go to the shoulder of theroad and it was true, and I'm
running faster.
But then it was like one ofthese Warner Brothers cartoons.
I'm running along and when Ibob up, my legs have gone into

(08:00):
this pipe that's going under theroad and I've got no leverage
to get out.
All the water is coming thisway, pushing me.
There was no way I could getout of it.
And they say your life flashesbefore your eyes.
I was 23.
It wouldn't have even held myinterest, but I was thinking.
I honestly thought I was made aGod.

(08:22):
He was going to kill me in asewer in Danville, virginia, and
I was thinking about my poorparents because, as a Catholic
in the little town I grew up in,I knew the route to the
afterlife and I can picture myfather at Kelly's funeral home.
You know like, yeah, he died inthe sewer, just keep a gun.
Yeah, but so anyway, I wasdrowning where I was, so I

(08:43):
thought my only hope was to letgo and hope it was a short pipe.
So I just let go and I go,whipping through this pipe
upside down, slamming my handsagainst the top of this pipe,
wondering when it will end.
And it was blessedly short, itwas only a two lane road.
So then I come out and I canstill remember to this day, you

(09:05):
know, 45 years later, that firstbreath when I got out the other
side.
But now I'm in a river, I'm inlike the Yakagini, I'm in rapids
.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
So I, I, I don't think anybody in Pittsburgh has
known this story.
You never this quiet.
You never wrote about this in.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
Pittsburgh, did you?
I wrote about it once or twicebut people forget.
But anyway, I'm hanging on tothis tree and I look downstream
In the river, in the river, andI look down and this river would
have been like a creek the daybefore.
It was just swollen with allthis storm water creek the day

(09:48):
before.
You know, it was just swollenwith all this storm water.
And uh, I look downstream andthis it looks like this big tree
has fallen and got goes all theway across.
So I think to myself self, ifyou get to that tree, you can
shimmy across and get to land.
So I let myself back into theyou know river and I hit this
tree like really hard and Imanaged to climb up onto it.

(10:08):
But then I see it doesn't goall the way across.
So I think at this point andit's like two in the morning,
you know, I'm completely, I'mcompletely by myself.
I was, you know, two minutesbefore I was at a poker table.
This is nuts, yeah.
So I climb as high as I caninto the branches, figuring God

(10:30):
is not going to kill me withlightning, and I look back at
where I was and I watch that gounderwater and I just wait for
hours in this tree and then itstopped raining, the water
calmed down, imed down and I gotto the shore.
I looked downstream, my, I meanI looked down the hill and

(10:52):
there's my car and it's just onwet pavement.
I walked past where the pipeand it's just a little dribble
at this point, and this wouldhave been the culmination.
Actually, there are two codasto this story.
I knock on the door, it's now Idon't know three in the morning
and we're all journalists.
So we live in sketchy parts oftown because we have no money.
So my friend Chris Fulleranswers the door with a big

(11:18):
knife in his hand because therehad been a shooting.
There had been a shooting.
It would have been shooting.
There'd been a shooting.
But I said, chris, whatever youdo, don't laugh, but you'll
never guess where I've just been.
So I spent the night on hiscouch.
I get it.
He gets a call from the editor.

(11:39):
They tell him what happened tome.
He says get him in here andhe's got to write that story.
So instead of going to theDoobie Brothers concert in
Greensboro, north Carolina, Iwrite this story for the Sunday
paper.
It goes all over the state andI go to church on crutches
because I sprained my ankle inall this.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
I was going to say you had.
Yeah, I was going to say that.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
This is the best part of the whole story.
I go to church and there'sFather Duffy who's like right
out of Central Casting.
This is his first parish.
He's from Chicago, chicago,irish, kind of a wise guy but a
priest, and he liked me becausewhen he came to Danville I wrote

(12:22):
a story on him and it ran onthe front page in the same day
as the story with the Pope, youknow, next to it.
So he sent it to his mother,duffy did.
I don't know what the Pope didwith it.
I'm sure the Pope was honoredas well.
So anyway, yeah, probably, Ilike to think so, but I'm on my
crutches and Father Duffy's,like Brian, what happened?

(12:45):
So I say you're not going tobelieve it, but I got sucked
through a sewer and it's in thepaper today.
He goes have all these peopleread this story?
I said well, I hope so.
He goes honest to God.
This is what he said.
He goes do me a favor Duringthe mass if you could walk up
the center aisle and throw yourcrutches down.
It would really help my career.

(13:06):
I've got the best line.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
I ever heard from anybody.
You were probably tempted totry and do that.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
Oh my gosh, yeah, true story yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Wait, was it pitch dark too, right?
Oh yeah, completely dark, allby myself.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
It was as scary as more scary than you would want
anything to be.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
How long did it feel like it lasted, Uh?

Speaker 3 (13:28):
you know, it couldn't have lasted very long.
I mean, I wasn't having what inyour brain, in my brain.
It was taking forever.
You know, going through thatpipe was taking forever and it
was probably not 10 secondsbecause I was going really fast.
It would.
It would make a great ride atKennywood actually, if you knew
that.
Yeah, yeah, but it wascompletely.

(13:49):
It was so.
It was like you were suddenlythrust into a movie and it was
like it was so surreal, it madeno sense and but I survived.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
You're lucky to survive.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
I am very lucky, yeah , and I got you know.
This is basically the BibleBelt where I survived.
You're lucky to survive.
I am very lucky, yeah, and Igot you know.
This is basically the BibleBelt where I was.
So I got all these letters fromfolks who were telling me that
the thing to do in thosesituations is to shout the
Lord's name.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
And I said I promise you you have no idea.
Only the Lord knows.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
I'm knows I took it the right way, but uh, right
after confession too yeah soeasy to say too yeah, yeah, as
you're drowning, yeah right,right, yeah, getting sucked into
a pipe.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, oh my goodness.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
And you know it's.
It's what's really funny aboutthat is like a lot of people
know about this, you know.
And so whenever it happens,like anywhere in the country and
it happens more often than youthink that some usually usually
it's a kid, but they get caughtand they come out the other side
.
It's happened at twice inPittsburgh since I've been here,

(14:59):
yeah, and and it's like a smallfraternity, but everybody I go
and I talk to them when I canand uh, yeah, they're all like
oh, so you talked to the otherswho've gone through a similar
experience and they, they,they're like yeah, it was really
scary, but it was didn't takethat long, you know so.

(15:20):
But there are other people whonever come out.
The other side so it's, it's.
But there are other people whonever come out the other side.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
So it's, it's, it's, it's.
It was, I don't know, a fewyears ago.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
There was a horrible in Verona, right Washington
Boulevard.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah what happened.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
The people drowned in similar circumstances.
Yeah, that's.
That's like a bathtub thatfills up in heavy rain, it's
still not right, they cut offthe traffic now when it rains
hard there.
But yeah, that's my story.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
So that story then catapults you to the Rono times
Right.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, which was I can't help it.
That's kind of like a pipedream.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Now, that's good.
Right, that is really good.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
It was just there.
I have to say it.
It was good.
Thank you, I like that.
You know, when things get tooserious, sometimes I go for you.

Speaker 3 (16:16):
Well done, yeah, that's very good, I never
thought of that in 50 years.
I'm going to use that.
But yeah, I got a job at theRoanoke Times and I wound up
getting a column there, andthat's how I.
How many years there at RoanokeEight years and five as a
columnist.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Were you looking to get out, or did this Pittsburgh
just happen?

Speaker 3 (16:39):
Well, that's a funny story too, because a lot of
things in my life are luck.
And there was a PittsburghPress columnist in the late 80s
I won't say his name, may herest in peace but he got fired

(17:00):
for plagiarism, I know, and hehad written a column on the
autobiography of Banna White andhe had borrowed too much from
this Rhode Island columnistnamed Mark Patinkin very good
Providence columnist Anyway.

(17:21):
So he got fired.
So I'm in Roanoke and my editorgets something out of editor
and publisher.
You know, columnist fired forplagiarism.
You know it's like, let this bea lesson to you.
I pick it up and I'm like, well, you know it's like, let this
be a lesson to you.
I pick it up.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
I'm like well, the lesson is, there's a job.
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
So long story short.
There's a funny story of.
I could tell about that too,but uh, I wound up here and I
didn't realize that was thatcreated the opening that is
firing.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, I got here in October 88.
I didn't realize that createdthe opening.
His firing.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Yeah, I got here in October of 88.
Actually I didn't even know.
I thought about applying.
But I had a girlfriend, I had ahouse, I had a dog in Roanoke.
I was like, yeah, maybe I won'tapply.
And then months went by and Igot a call from the Pittsburgh
Press and I'm like, wow, Ididn't even have to apply.

(18:15):
How'd they find me?
And I called him and MattKennedy said yeah, brian, what
can you tell us about DarylLaurent of the Lynchburg News?
I'm like what he goes?
Did he put me down as areference?
I said.
He said no, I'm just callingthe columnists around him to see
what they think of him.
I said, well, I really likewhat he said.

(18:35):
I mean, I don't see him all thetime, but what I've read I
liked.
But then it was like one ofthose things from like Animal
House.
I got the devil on one shoulderand the angel on the other.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Is he trying to?

Speaker 3 (18:44):
is that guy also applying?
He had applied for the job, sohe's asking you about this guy,
yeah that had applied for thejob.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
You don't want to talk him up.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
Yeah, so you wiggle in.
Yes, so yeah, I tried to figureout how to answer the question
honestly and still get my footin the door.
So I said he's a pretty goodcolumnist, but a real jerk.
No, I said only nice thingsabout Daryl and he was a very
good columnist.
But I said I'll tell you what.
Were it not for me, darylLorant would be the best
columnist in Virginia.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Wow what a great line .
Did you drop that line?

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, I love it, nice that's great, he said really I
said, yeah, how do I apply forthis job?
So I said, send us some clips.
And I sent some clips, I cameout, got the interview and I got
the job.
And then that was in 88?

Speaker 1 (19:31):
88,.
Yeah, and boy, you quicklyadopted this city.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
I loved it.
It's just like Michael wassaying.
It's like love at first sight.
It was a perfect.
It just suited me immediately.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
You got a mixture of probably a lot of where you were
from in Long Island went downto the Bible Belt and then you
get right in the middle.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, that's what Pittsburgh.
That's some of what I talkabout in the book.
Pittsburgh is unique I mean, Isuppose every city is in some
way but there is no city likePittsburgh, for many reasons.
But one which I didn't fullygrasp until after the book came

(20:12):
out.
Somebody wrote to me One whichI didn't fully grasp until after
the book came out.
Somebody wrote to me this islike a two-minute story, but he
said if you can picture a map ofthe United States, the lower 48
states are divided into fourbig groups the northeast, which
Pennsylvania is in.
The south, which begins at theMason-Dixon line.

(20:32):
The midwest, that begins, uh,you know, with ohio.
And the west.
There is no other metropolis inamerica that nearly straddles
three major regions of thecountry.
Wow, that is why pittsburghershave, think, the work ethic of

(20:55):
Midwestern Westerners.
They can get in your face likeNortheasterners, but they're
also friendly like Southerners.
So it's those three aspectsinform our culture in ways we
don't even realize.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
That's a great call.
Yeah, you called it, I thinkknow in one of your pieces,
maybe part of the book.
Uh, like the three bears, thethird bear what is it?
The third bear of cities nottoo big, not too small, just
right, yeah, not too hard, nottoo soft yeah, just right just
right, yeah, there's a big badwolf in that scenario uh,

(21:33):
cleveland, I guess I don't know,I can't remember.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, no, there's no wolf in that story.
It's been a while.
Yeah, it's just bears andgoldilocks.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah so he, so brian, was goldilocks just right, I
could see that with his hair,yeah so anyway.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
So brian now, so you do also 30 years, 32 years or so
, as a columnist.
Now how did you?
Because you continue to be acolumnist, but you know I really
got, I read all your stuff thatyou wrote but also really was
fond of the Stats Geek For thoseeither watching or or or

(22:14):
listening.
You may not even realize it,but it was a regular column.
The stats geek, which wasbaseball, uh, statistics, but
but with a twist.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, it was.
It was actually before Michaelgot to the pirates.
But uh, in 2003, I read thebook money ball and uh, and I
thought and I was a longtimebaseball fan but they were
talking about things that I'dnever fully grasped before.
And I looked at our sports pageat the time and we weren't

(22:51):
talking about those things.
So I went to the sports editorand I said, how about if once a
week, I was the only sportswriter in the country who never
talked to an athlete who justwrote a column based on what I
saw and the statistics?
And I and I think I could writea pretty good column just on

(23:12):
those two things?
And so I did, and I talkedabout like the A's at the time.
I mean, like the thing aboutMoneyball, it's all about
finding what's undervalued, andat the time it was on base
percentage.
There are other things that youknow fielding, catcher, framing
that might be undervalued.

(23:33):
So you got to find those thingsif you want to succeed.
But they were doing things inOakland that like we don't steal
, we don't bunt.
So I started watching thosegames with that in mind and I
remember a game where JackWilson it was the perfect
opportunity for him to lay downa bunt, and he didn't do it.

(23:56):
It was first and second andnobody out.
Instead he like waited out awalk.
He got a walk which moved therunners over anyway, and then
there were like a couple ofsacrifice flies and I realized
if he had bunted they wouldn'thave scored any runs, you know,
and so that was a case thatshowed me well, the A's were on

(24:18):
to something.
So I looked at that.
I did that for about three orfour years and then it was taken
up too much.
I had to do my other column too, so I went back to that.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
It took a lot of time .

Speaker 3 (24:32):
Yeah, it was fun, though you know I would do it
yeah it was a lot of fun and Iremember one time I did talk to
an athlete.
I mean, my eyes were telling methat Jack Wilson was a terrific
shortstop.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Second best all time in Pirate history, defensively
Behind Honus Wagner.
Yeah, no, that's what I wasseeing.
I looked it up recently behindHonus Wagner.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yeah, no, that's what I was seeing Just looked it up
recently.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
I love Jack Wilson, but this is where the debate
comes Like.
How in the world does anybodyknow where Jack Wilson compares
to?

Speaker 3 (25:01):
Honus Wagner.
Well, here's what I was.
Completely agree, I understandit's a defensive, yeah, but well
, they say Mazeroski, who wasobviously a great defensive
second baseman.
The stats show that too.
I mean, like when you say, well, I don't know how they get that

(25:22):
, but then you see that, like,the best center fielders are
Willie Mays and Andrew Jones andstuff like that.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
I don't know if they're very Kevin Kiermaier.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
If the stats back up what you think you see, then
it's something.
So the Pirates weren't good inthe early 2000s, but I was
watching Jack Wilson begindouble plays that shouldn't have
even been one out.
all of a sudden two outs.
And so I'm talking to myfriends and it's like that's

(25:54):
just because the Piratespitchers put so many men on base
.
I'm like that's not the onlyreason.
So I went to Baseball Referenceand Baseball Prospectus and
they showed Baseball Prospectushad a stat about how many double
plays you get when there is adouble play opportunity and that

(26:17):
also showed that the pirateswere very high and uh, the
league once or twice with himand yes, yes, and I would vary a
second baseman he was always.
So I went to baseball referenceand I said can you show me the
list of, uh, of shortstops, themost double plays made in their

(26:40):
first thousand games in themajor leagues, whatever,
whatever, wherever Wilson was atthat point I asked for, and
Wilson was right up there nearthe top with, like you know,
rizzuto and names you know, know.
So this was the one time Iwanted to talk to an athlete, so
I go in with this list to jackwilson at a clubhouse before a

(27:02):
game and he's like.
It was the only time I ever methim, but he was such, he's like
a big kid, you know and um andso you know it was.
You know'm coming out of nowhere, but he was nice to me and I
said I just wanted to show youthis thing.
And I show him the list and hesees it, and he had no idea that

(27:25):
he was up there with all theseguys.
So he goes.
That is so cool, Isn't thatgreat?
And Freddy Sanchez comeswalking by and he goes what are
you guys talking about?
And Wilson goes, double playsand how we rock Sounds just like
him, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
He'd say the same thing today, yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
But he I was glad those stats came out later about
Wilson being at the very topdefensively all time, because he
really was a terrific player ona bad team and they never get
their due Like Jason Kendall wasa terrific hitter, a catcher

(28:12):
who steals bases like a bearriding a bicycle, you know, but
the teams weren't good, so Idon't think he got the credit he
deserved either, but anyway,well, that's what I love about
you know, regardless of the team, the woes of the team

(28:33):
collectively.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
People ask about how you can be excited about the
team.
The woes of the teamcollectively.
People ask about how you can beexcited about the team I'm
excited about the players overthe years.
Yeah, because everyone has anindividual story.
Every individual game is astory, that's it and the book is
the season, and you turn thepage Exactly.
Each chapter is different andyou never know what's going to
happen.

(28:55):
It's a great book to read as abaseball fan, but just over the
years you talk about playersthat don't get their due.
Someone recently said and I'llask both you guys see if I can
find this my brother and I havethis buddy who's a big baseball

(29:15):
fan in New York.
He's a big, huge Mets fan.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
You know what I love about what you said about the
book Brownie.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Like you, being a columnist and always trying to
find that story is, no book iswritten until the games are
played.
Yeah, yeah, and too often weassume you being a Mets fan.
I mean they signed Soto, right?
$700 million, right.
Crazy amount of money.
Whatever it was, gratitude ifit is, that doesn't mean
anything.
Still got to play the games.
They still got to play the game,and the true beauty in baseball
is there's a great chance thatthey're going to lose at least a

(29:44):
couple games to teams that arepaying their team $35 to $100
million yeah, and they have oneof the highest payrolls in
baseball.
That's the cool part aboutbaseball you can't buy a
championship.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
Right, I was talking with Michael before we went on
about a fond memory I have from.
I had to look it up it was 2012.
I'm doing the dishes listeningto a Pirates game it's humbling.
Yeah, and they're playing theReds, it's 4-4.
And uh, it's, they're.
They're playing the reds.
It's four to four, and this is2012.

(30:16):
The pirates are just startingto get good and people are
starting to think it's like june.
The pirates have a winningrecord in june, which was pretty
rare.
And uh, they're playing theirdivision rivals in cincinnati
and it's four to four.
And a ninth and aroldis chapman, a a young Raldus Chapman,
comes in and I looked it up, hehadn't given up a run yet it was

(30:38):
June and he'd struck out, Ithink, literally half the
batters he'd faced.
So you know, people in thestands and great American
ballpark are probably going upto use the men's room and
nothing's going to happen in aknife.
Look at these guys at thebottom of the Pirates lineup
Clint Barmas doubles and thenMichael McHenry comes up.

(30:59):
According to what I read, youtried to bunt.
Maybe it went foul or something.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
I think he almost hit me in the face.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Oh really.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Yeah, and then?

Speaker 2 (31:08):
they pulled it back.
They're like nah, probablytough to bunt.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
And the broadcast was this McHenry's trying to bunt
Bob.
What is this all about?
Why would you bunt McHenry?

Speaker 3 (31:18):
here in this situation 4-4.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
It's crazy, I'll get so rolled as Chapman.
As Chapman, he almost gotkilled.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
What's this manager thinking?
He threw it right at my face.
I'll never forget.
I was like bunt, bunt, oh death.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Right, I can't imagine.
I mean that would be scarierthan getting sucked through a
sewer pipe.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
They took off.
They were like swipe, swipe,swipe, swipe, swipe.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
Scarier than getting sucked through by a sewer pipe.
No, no chance but close.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Close yeah, close, close yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
He's condemned to five Struck by lightning.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
That was just a Chapman 102 at your face is no
fun, but anyway it went one andtwo and then, as I'm doing the
dishes, mike McHenry doubles.
The Pirates go ahead, and I canstill remember that.
You know it's just like,because you know it's baseball.
It wasn't supposed to happenthat way.
Nobody in Cincinnati thought itwas going to happen that way,

(32:14):
and Clint Barmas and MikeMcHenry beat Aroldis Chapman
when he was unbeatable.
So that's why we watch thegames.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
So here's the text from this guy, this player,
former Pirate, career average291, a 902 OPS, 51 war more than
Kiner or Rice, 137 OPS plushigher than Griffey.

(32:42):
More homers and RBIs than HackWilson 35 plus homers, 90 plus
RBIs, 90 plus walks.
Four times in his career.
Never struck out more than 80times.
Did not receive one Hall ofFame vote off the ballot
immediately.
Who?

Speaker 3 (32:51):
am I?
I have an idea who that is, butdid he play in the last 30
years?

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
Brian Giles.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
I saw his numbers recently too.
It's crazy how good he was.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, he's the best left fielder at PNC Park I've
seen.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Well, I saw Bonds.
Well, I'm talking about Pirate.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Jason Bay was really good too.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Did you see his comparison to Soto at the same
age.
Yes, same amount of bounce.
Excuse me, not the same age.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
He was better in a lot of ways.
I wrote a column, a Statskecolumn that was very
controversial because peopledon't want to hear that I said
Brian Giles is putting up Hallof Fame numbers here, and
they're like what are youtalking about, brian Giles?

Speaker 1 (33:32):
I'm like look, yes, just watch him play, though, for
me, Brian O'Neal Watch him play, that's right.
I saw him play every day.
He was incredible.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
It's the argument I have about Brian.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
It's the argument.
I want to get off the beatentrack here, but it's the
argument about Brian Reynoldsand the statistics saying he's
not a great left fielder.
I don't care, I watch everygame.
He's a really good left fielder, really good.
I wouldn't take him out of leftfield, all right, anyway.
So it was easy.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
You go to the super-duper new metrics and
stuff.
It could just be badpositioning you know that's true
, yeah.
It's sometimes simpler than wewant to make it, but yeah, he
was a gold glove finalist incenter field two years ago.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
Yeah, you know.
Speaking of things, since BillyWagner just made the Hall of
Fame and you brought up BrianGiles, I was at that game in
2001.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
The Grand Slam, yes, when the Pirates went into
Another.
You're talking aboutunpredictable, it was ridiculous
.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
The Pirates were down by six runs, I think I think
six or seven.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
It was the greatest comeback in history.
At that point, I think.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
I think With two outs and nobody on in the bottom of
the ninth for a team to walk off.
We just beat that comeback likea year ago.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
With two outs, nobody on.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Two outs.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
nobody on that's when the comeback started, we just
beat it with seven runs.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Okay, I remember going back and seeing that game.
I was like oh my gosh, becausethe names they had to beat was
different.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
Yeah, this friend of mine owned a restaurant on 6th
Street at the time and he waslistening to the game on the
radio.
And when Brian Giles hit thehome run, he ran up onto 6th
Street and saw all these Piratesfans walking down the street.
And he's like you idiots, youleft, you missed the greatest

(35:16):
comeback in history.
And they're like what are youtalking about?
They lost?
No, they didn't.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Listen to the fireworks.
Another great lesson you morons, morons, believe it early
that's listen to the fireworksyou morons, morons.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
That's a great way to get people into your restaurant
, michael I don't care, they'recrazy.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
You guys got to watch Billy Wagner pitch that guy was
special, he just didn't hit himand the fact that Giles clipped
him is really impressive.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
That was like.
It was one of those times andI've had a few of these
experiences where everybody inthe park is waiting for this one
thing to happen.
And it happened.
Yeah, you know, I was at WillieMays' first game as a Met.
Same thing, wow, we're justwaiting, we're all there.

(36:03):
He's back in New York.
Everybody wants a home run.
It's the fifth inning of a tiegame, fifth or sixth?
He hits it into the bullpen.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
He hit a home run his first game back.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
His first game as a man Hits it into the bullpen.
It's like what you dream of.
Yes, it was this moment ofsilence, because nobody could
believe it.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
It's so unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
And then it erupted this full house on a Saturday,
just went berserk becauseeverything that they had hoped
for had just come true.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Wow, isn't that something else?

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Baseball's great yeah .

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Baseball's great.
That is great, you were at thatgame.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
I was at that game.
Was that opening day that year?
No, it was like May.
He got traded.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
May for Mays.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Yeah, May for Mays.
Yeah, he got traded during theseason.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
I didn't know it was during the season, yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:56):
And yeah, it was fantastic.
I was also at the game wherePete Rose mugged Bud Harrelson
in the 1973 playoffs.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Oh really yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
And everybody wanted Pete Rose dead.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
And people were chanting things that I can't
repeat here, and finally theMets were going to forfeit this
playoff game and they were wayahead and Willie Mays, yogi
Berra, tom seaver and russiestob walked out the left field,
where the trouble was, where Ihappen to be sitting, and uh,

(37:32):
they said you know, stop it.
And then, like everybody, hey,willie said to sit down yeah oh
my gosh yeah, so yeah, that's.
I mean that's baseball, as youwere saying.
I mean it's like you never knowwhat you're going to get and
you know that's what makes itgreat.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
So one of those two moments you just mentioned.
If I asked you the greatestmoment of your baseball fandom,
either that you attended orwatched.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
I would say the wild card game.
Here Were you there, I wasthere.
Yeah, that was unbelievable.
I mean, that was everything youwanted in a baseball game.
And when Cueto dropped the ball, and then Russ, Martin hit the
home run.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
The next pitch.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
Yeah, it was ridiculous.
I mean, it was so fun.
You couldn't write a storybooklike that, yeah and it was a
blackout because of McCutcheon'srequest, you know.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
I heard Cutch speaking about that the other
day.
We were sitting there talking.
He was talking to some of theyoung guys.
It looked like the bridge wasmoving when they were walking
across.
Yeah, I went out early, I washurt and I'd just gotten off my
crutches, so I was out watchingand because the way they were
flowing through the bridge.
It really did look like whenit's a bridge was going like

(38:50):
this I don't think it was reallydoing that.
Wow, obviously, but like fromour perspective, if we could
find video and you watch it.
They're so in flow as they'rewalking.
It looked like it was movinglike a snake it was wild.
It's tremendous I had neverheard him talk about it like
that, because most of the timeyou just hear his account, but

(39:12):
he was talking about it almostlike a fan in the moment instead
of a player.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah, he is a fan.
He was still caught up, yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
But yeah, think about that, Thinking about that whole
bridge moving the sea ofhumanity.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
That day, hours before the game Hours, I
remember going up to the top atPN's where we hang out sometimes
, you and I, well before this isthree hours before the game and
looking down at the cornerthere of General Robinson and
Federal Street where theClemente Bridge meets at the
corner there, and just all a seaof black everywhere on the

(39:41):
streets waving Jolly Rogers,wanting to get in that ballpark.
And then when they opened thegates two hours before game time
, it was like, as Milo Hamiltonused to say, somebody threw
honey on an anthill.
I mean it was wild.
I mean the place filled up likethat.
But two hours before the game,yeah.

(40:02):
Incredible.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
I've seen a lot of good things, I've been to a lot
of games, but that that's rightat the top.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
It goes back to.
Well.
Didn't even ask you how youbecame such a baseball fan
originally.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
You said you were a cover of politics, right, but
what was it?
I mean I was.
I was a.
You know, when I was a kid,baseball was.
My father was a big baseballfan.
He'd been a yankees fan until1945 and they traded his
favorite pitcher, hank barrowi,to the cubs and he dropped no
that's how you became a mets fan, so he dropped the hatred there

(40:39):
they call that.
I'm irish, so I can say thatthey call this irish alzheimer's
.
You forget everything but yourgrudges.
So he's like.
He's like.
He's like the yankees are deadto me.
So he became he became a newyork giants fan.
So so when I was a little kid,I remember asking you know, I

(40:59):
was starting to collect baseballcards who's the best baseball
player?
Dad willie mays is the bestbaseball boy.
So I would you know, learn fromhim.
And uh and my I played littleleague, not well.
I peaked at 12.
Uh, the.
Uh, the car plays wine andliquor blazers won the pennant.
Uh, I was pretty good.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
The what, the what, everywhere, the wine and liquor
blazers 12 years old I was 12years old.
Well, new York.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
New York's, not Pennsylvania, so the, the, the
liquor stores were private, sothere were the Rowan realty,
rockets and et cetera, like thelittle businesses in town.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Sponsored sponsored, not every day, with the name on
the back though.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
Yeah, the call place wine and liquor blazers.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
You guys see that these bears it's exactly the
same thing.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Yeah, absolutely yeah same thing.
No game right here, boys.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
By the way, here's a crazy bit of trivia.
The catcher on the Carl PlaceWine and Liquor Blazers in the
movie the Natural, joe Masso, isthe catcher in the Natural.
Come on, yeah, he got intoacting and he had this bit part

(42:10):
in the natural.
So I could always say that thecatcher on my little league team
was the catcher in the natural.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Oh my gosh how cool is that joe maso.
Yeah, did you stay in touchwith him by chance?
No, and how did you know?
When did you find out that yourteammate was in the natural?

Speaker 2 (42:22):
I think, feel like he's right.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Somebody told me and I looked it up.
You can look it up on check mein imdbcom.
Joe Maso.
His credit is additional night.
I don't think he had a line inthe movie, but he was the
catcher.
But the memory I have as a kid,the reason I live where I live,

(42:44):
where I can walk to the Piratesgames, when I was in the third
grade I'd never been to a gamebefore and my brother won
tickets on this kid's show, theChuck McCann show.
He won for some reason threetickets to a Yankees game
against the Kansas CityAthletics.
So my father good father thathe was takes us to the Yankees

(43:10):
game.
And you know I'm nine years old,I'm totally in awe.
You know we're in the Bronx.
You know we rode the subwaylooking up at everything and
we're outside and I rememberthese teenagers talking to each
other.
You know I'm trying to takeeverything in and one kid, I'm
listening to conversations andthis guy says to the other guy

(43:32):
you want to go to the game andthe other guy says who's
pitching?
And I'm like that was imprintedon my brain.
It's like imagine living closeenough to a baseball stadium
that you could decide that daywhether you wanted to walk to
the game.
So in 1990, when this townhouseon the north side came open and

(43:57):
everybody who grew up inPittsburgh and I mean everybody
was telling me not to buy on thenorth side.
I was like, are you kiddingthat?

Speaker 1 (44:06):
was the time.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
This house is not expensive and I can walk to see
Bonds of Benin Van Sluyken.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah, you had street cred.
You went through a pipe andalmost got stabbed.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
That's right, that's true, yeah so it turned out to
be the best move I ever made.
I could not afford to live inthat neighborhood.
Now I I do live in thatneighborhood still, but I
couldn't afford to buy in thatneighborhood because the prices
have gone through the roof.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
But at the time.
So it was also a greatinvestment.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
Yeah, well, it's the best investment I ever made.
I zigged when people weretelling me to zag.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
How many games do you think you went to in the early
90s, the Bonds years?
Did you go again as a fan, notfor work, I always went as a fan
.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
I've rarely sat in the press box.
Uh, I'd say 20 or 30 games ayear, that's great yeah yeah,
and what you saw.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Willie mays now talk about barry bonds.
How good was barry bonds?
Both you guys got some of that,because for me growing up he
was he was one of my favoriteshe was great.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
Here's the thing about, I think, people.
Because he was, you know, hewas arrogant and uh, uh, you
know there were people who wouldsay to me uh, so he's, you know
what is that?

Speaker 2 (45:22):
30 homers 30 steals.
What is it?

Speaker 1 (45:28):
you know, that's just a deal.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Those are pretty important skills, but, uh, but
the thing I remember most aboutbonds, just on a day-to-day
basis, watching him every day,like you were talking about
watching Brian Reynolds when theball was hit into the corner he
would get to it fast, turn andthrow and I don't know how many

(45:54):
doubles he kept.
Singles which did not, you know, doesn't wind up as a stat
anywhere, except maybe in thesenew stats.
They show that, but that alwaysimpressed me that he covered
that ground.
It was, I mean, the.
The pirates essentially had twocenter fielders, you know vance
, like and bonds.

(46:14):
Uh, so that's what that mightbe.
The thing I remember most aboutbonds, you know, on a
day-to-day basis, there are sohe did the job.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, as arrogant as he was, he always did the job.
That, yeah, as arrogant as hewas, he always did the job.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
That's what I loved about him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And like somebody said and Inever realized this before
Clemente would have been thecenter fielder if the Yankees
didn't have, if the Piratesdidn't have, Verdon.
You know, same here, thePirates had Van Slyke, so Bonds
was in left field and he stayedin left field.
But he might have been a verygood center fielder.

(46:47):
I mean, he had all the tools.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Turns out to be one of the greatest left fielders,
maybe of all time right.
How about the book the Paris ofAppalachia and why you wrote it
?

Speaker 2 (46:59):
and what is it about Appalachia?
Because I grew up in Tennessee,right in the middle of Smoky
Mountains.
Where does Appalachia end?
Because I didn't even put thatin my brain, that Pittsburgh's
in Appalachia.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
Yeah, one of the reasons I made that title is I
wanted Pittsburgh to realizethat all these hills weren't on
loan from Morgantown that wewere actually, you know, Swirl.
Hill.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
Summer Hill, troy Hill, pleasant Hills.
There's a reason for all this.
There's a lot of hills, there'sa lot of things going on.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
So Winkley Heights, whatever, so what I'd heard the
original title of the book wasgoing to be.
I love Pittsburgh like abrother, and my brother drives
me nuts.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
That one too, that's good.
I thought that was good, thatsounds like a sequel, right.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
But I wrote after I wrote the book, the publisher
said no, that's not your title.
Your title is on page 13.
When you talk about this theParis of Appalachia, which I had
heard as like a put down ofPittsburgh Like yeah, it's the
Paris of Appalachia.
Why would that be a put down?
Well, it's like the best beachin Iowa, the smartest guy in
prison, you know it's likeSomebody's got to have that

(48:06):
award.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
I couldn't figure.
I also thought that shouldn'tbe a put down.
Paris is nice.
I've been to Paris.
They don't know how topronounce Versailles, but it's
nice.
Yeah, that's their problem.
And Appalachia is beautiful.
It just has a bad rap.
It's beautiful, it is beautiful, beautiful, it's beautiful,
it's absolutely beautiful.
And it goes on.
I mean, the Appalachian Trailgoes from Georgia to Maine.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
You know there's a lot of….
When you think aboutPennsylvania or Pittsburgh, you
don't think about Appalachia,you don't.

Speaker 3 (48:38):
You think about West Virginia, western Kentucky,
tennessee, western Kentucky,tennessee.
But one of the reasons I wasglad we wound up calling it,
that is Appalachia, is a lotmore nuanced and complex than

(49:00):
these.
You know it's the image in theAmerican mind is just white
poverty, and it's so much morethan that.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Our entire history is written in Appalachia, for the
most part right?

Speaker 3 (49:11):
Yeah, so much has happened here and so much
important stuff has happenedhere, so I wanted and the cover
art was perfect for the title asit turned out, and the cover
art was perfect for the title asit turned out I already had the
cover art the guy named RonDonahue, in Lawrenceville, who
goes out every day in Pittsburghand paints you know what he

(49:35):
sees Well, every nice day inPittsburgh.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
So you know 20, 30 times a year.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
But he's a brilliant painter, has books of his own,
of his own paintings, so I hadthat in mind as the cover.
So when they said it should bethe Paris of Appalachia, I
thought, yeah, that would workbetter.
How about?

Speaker 1 (49:54):
the chapter.
The pirates and the stealersand the penguins are included in
it.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
I guess it's just all about yeah, yeah, I knew I was
writing a book about Pittsburgh.
I had to.
I had to include sports.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
So that's what's blowing me away here is the love
for sports.
Yeah, and it's, it's, it'sdifferent, it's really different
.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
I don't even know how to explain it to people.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
Yeah, if you.
You know if the pirates, uh, doyou know, get back into the
playoffs?
You know the people turned out,the people turn out here.

(50:38):
You know this is an ideal placefor a baseball park for a lot
of reasons.
Pittsburgh is within 250 milesof 42 million Americans, which
is why, you see, when thePhillies are in town, the Mets
are in town, cubs, cardinals,all these out-of-town jerseys
people are coming because it'seasy.
It's relatively easy to get to,it's an inexpensive ticket.

(51:01):
It's a beautiful ballpark thatfeeds some incredible percentage
of the fans in pnc park arefrom out of state like it's.
I think it's more than 40percent.
Uh, some of those are ohio,west virginia.
You know pirates fans, but, uh,when the pirates are good, like

(51:23):
they were in 2013, 14 and 15,the attendance was higher for
the pirates than for thepopulation of the seven county
metro area.
There were more people buyingtickets than live in the seven
counties around pnc park.
so the fans are there.

(51:44):
If you give them the productthat they want to see and as
soon as they see it, if you givethem any glimmer of hope, they
come.
So yeah, I do hope you know inthese Skeens years that they
recognize that and build around,you know, a generational talent

(52:06):
.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Yeah, there's an opportunity there like we
haven't seen in our lifetime.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
This is like when I was a kid, when I was 13, and
the Mets finally got to 500 in1969.
In like June and Tom Seavergoes.
What are you all talking about?
500 we're?
We want to win it all, yeah,right.
But the Mets recognized theyhad Seaver, they had Kuzmin,

(52:31):
they had Nolan Ryan who wasn'treally Nolan Ryan yet, uh, but
they had Cleon Jones who wasplaying like Roberto Clemente.
That year they had a team thatcould compete a lot like the
Pirates, with Jones and Skeens.
So they went out and got DonClendenin to play first and they
wound up going to the WorldSeries, winning the World Series

(52:52):
, and Don Clendenin was the MVPof the World Series.
If you see what you have andthe Pirates have it in the
pitching.
This is not anything thatanybody doesn't know.
If the Pirates get to theplayoffs with these pitchers,

(53:14):
they can compete with anyone.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Last, year we were considered one of the most
terrifying teams if we made theplayoffs.
Yeah, Because of the pitching.
I know the bullpen collapsed atthe end, but even so, those
guys could have hit stride.
If they hit stride it's trouble, that's right.
You think about how LA won lastyear.
They didn't win because they'restarting pitching.
They won because of the bullpenRight.
Nobody talked about LA'sbullpen until they were almost

(53:37):
exposed.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
And it all turned on at the right time and there's a
bunch of guys that want to takethe ball.
Knowing these guys, they wantthe ball and that's a difference
maker.
And the dodgers also wonbecause of good fundamental
baseball 100 that the yankeesjust failed at, just like basic
stuff that's usually what winsplayoffs games, I think you know
, pitching a good defense nodoubt, um brian, you write the
book.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
You make pittsburgh your home.
Um, you wrote for like 32 yearscolumns.
You did the stats geek.
Was there, uh, someone in yourlife, either in pittsburgh or as
you grew up, aside from yourfather, who who, uh, maybe
mentored you?
Someone you idolized, perhapseven writing wise-wise, somebody
you looked up to?

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Yeah, when I was in college, in my house we didn't
get the New York Times, we gotthe New York Daily News and
Newsday, which is the LongIsland newspaper.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Is there a reason why not the Times?
Just curious, my father was theonly Irish Republican.
And my mother was not going tobe dropped off at my house.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
And my mother was an unreconstructed Roosevelt.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
There's that grudge.
There's that grudge, yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
There's a Roosevelt Democrat.
Yeah, my father got drafted atage 30 before Pearl Harbor,
before Pearl Harbor in thepeacetime draft, and he blamed
Roosevelt and never voted foranother Democrat again.
But he was there when they tookBerlin at 35.
Oh my gosh, wow, where was I?

(55:15):
So, yeah, anyway.
So in my house we didn't get theTimes.
We got the New York Daily Newsand Newsday and at the time the
New York Daily News had thesetwo columnists which remain the
best one to punch in the historyof newspaper columns wrote.

(55:36):
Each of them wrote three days aweek and they didn't do it.
These weren't thumb suckingcolumns you know about.
You know national politics.
They were hitting the streets,walking upstairs in Harlem, you
know, going to the docks, doingwhere.
Wherever the story was, theywere looking for it.
So I idolize those guys and, uh, and I, I, I wouldn't, you know

(55:59):
, put myself anywhere near them,but that's what I aspired to,
to do it the right way to talkto people, to get out of the
office, to not just sit at yourdesk and make phone calls mind
in Pittsburgh press or PostGazette that you're most proud

(56:21):
of that or maybe got the.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
I think I read something that you said or maybe
you're quoting someone that agood column is.
One is back in the day when wehad the newspapers and when
people would cut out editorials,yeah, and put them on the
refrigerator right, that's what,in fact, when I wrote, when I
submitted my columns for the jobin Pittsburgh I said I found

(56:45):
the letter recently.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
I kept a copy I said that a columnist should be
judged not by how many awards hewins but by how many
refrigerator doors his columnwinds up on.
That's great, well said.
So yeah, I mean there'ssomething.
There's one column I probablycan't.

(57:08):
I don't know what I can say onthis.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
You can say anything, whatever you want.
You're having some coffee and astogie.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
This is about the late Cyril Wecht, the coroner.
He didn't like me If CyrilWecht the coroner?
Oh yeah, he didn't like me.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
If Cyril didn't like you, there was no getting around
.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Yeah, he didn't like me because I would say things
You'd question me.
I would question his brilliance.
Yeah, and he was brilliant.
That's what everyone says.
I thought he was just smart andaccomplished.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Well, and he knew it.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
just smart and accomplished and he knew it, but
anyway.
So he runs against Jim Roddyfor county executive and he
should have won.
But this brilliant man bringsin Johnny Cochran to campaign

(57:59):
for him and Cyril already hadthe black vote.
So all Johnny Cochran tocampaign for him and Cyril
already had the black vote.
I mean so all Johnny Cochran,like one of the most divisive
figures at the time OJ's lawyer.
He brings OJ's lawyer tocampaign for him, like three
days before Election Day.
So there were people in thearound the county who didn't
like that.

(58:19):
So Jim Roddy winds up becomingcounty executive.
So this guy, just a guy, anengineer I think he was a smart
guy.
He writes a letter to theeditor saying I'm so glad we
have Jim Roddy, a gentleman,instead of Cyril Wex who is full

(58:42):
of himself or something.
It was just a letter to theeditor like two sentences.
So Cyril is livid.
He dictates a letter to hissecretary on county stationery
because he was the medicalexaminer at the time, to the guy

(59:04):
who wrote this letter and itwas something like you know,
when I'm coming back from aspeech or paid big money to give
testimony at a trial, whatgives my heart good is to come
back to Pittsburgh and see thatI'm not an insignificant asshole

(59:28):
like you, I mean, and he waslike that word On county
stationary.
On county stationary.
So you know he dictated thisletter and had his secretary
type it.
Are you?

Speaker 1 (59:40):
sure you want me to write this Dr.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Wecht Use the A word.
So the guy receives the letter,he calls me, he tells me what
he got.
I said that's a column, thankyou.
So he brings it to me and I seeit's real, and I call Cyril and
of course he doesn't want totalk about it.
It's real and I call Cyril andof course he doesn't want to

(01:00:05):
talk about it.
Uh, so I write a column, uh,and it was the most well-read
column I've ever written, um,and not a single person objected
to the word being in the paper.
Not one.
Because it was so ridiculousthat this guy had done this
thing to this man who was just,you know, writing a relatively

(01:00:31):
insignificant letter to theeditor.
So then Cyril's mad at me neverforgave me and he would
continue to write to me, whichonly gave me more columns.
You, you know he would write methis letter and I would, you
know he called me, you and theother editor, buttock, hunting,
hugging members of the newsroom.
I'm like, and I'm like, righthere's another column, thank you

(01:00:52):
, I don't hug just one buttock,I hug them both, you know, and
uh, and he would keep writingyou would just keep writing and
he said so, he was just teeingyou up, just keep writing.
And he said so, he was justteeing you up.
He was just teeing me up and itjust went on and on.
He said you couldn't be electedblock leader.
So I printed that and I wroteanother column.
I said how this year all I waselected block leader at the

(01:01:15):
Memorial Day block party and Ididn't even have to attend bar
that long.
So you know he was.
Uh, I'm glad you had fun withit.
Yeah, I had a lot of fun.
But he wrote a book, uhco-wrote it.
He had a ghostwriter, but uh,it's got a great title.
It's not a great book, but it'sgot a great title the deaths

(01:01:36):
and life of Cyril Wecht, that'sgreat.
I go to the index to see what hesaid about me and of course
it's not favorable.
But I read those two or threepages of his vindictiveness and
all right, you've got a right tosay that.
But he spent a lot more timegoing after the DA Zapala who he

(01:01:59):
didn't like and Cyril has sincedied, a lot more time going
after the DA Zapala who hedidn't like and what Cyril has
since died.
And and the thing Cyril neverrealized is I liked him.
I found him very entertaining.
I always, when you could votefor a coroner, I always voted
for him for coroner.
I just didn't think he'd be agood County executive, but

(01:02:23):
anyway, I got his book from thelibrary like a year and a half
ago.
And, in the way, if, if nobodywants the book you've you've
taken out, it is automaticallyrenewed.
So it's been automaticallyrenewed for like a year and a
half.
Oh my gosh.
So that's, that shows youthey're not exactly flying off

(01:02:45):
the shelves, well, he was.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
He was certainly interesting.
That that that I will give you.
I I got along with him.
I disagree with him politicallybut, uh, he never hold him.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
He was very smart, he was, and he was funny, yes, uh
very interesting interesting, agood conversationalist, but you
know if you disagreed withanything he said you know how
dare you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
He was taken aback by that.
Who are you to disagree with me?
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
Yeah, it's like I once wrote.
You're like this is true, Ijust thought this was fact.
You know he never met amicrophone.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
He didn't like and he like took great offense at that
, which is funny because I thinkyou know, I would have thought
he would not disagree with that.
No, I mean, it was fact.
He loved it.
Yeah, he loved the mic andanyway.
So, in terms of Pittsburghwriters, guys at the

(01:03:42):
Post-Gazette Press, were youclose to any of them?

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
Gene Collier, I was going to ask you about Gene.
Gene Collier is a great guy.
Now there's a brilliant guyright.
Yeah, oh yeah.
He's one of the best sportswriters I think I've ever read.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
What makes a great sports writer in your mind?

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
The thing I like about Collier in particular and
this isn't true of all sportswriters, but with Collier it's
almost like he's kicking out theslats of what a sports writer
should be, like he's notconfined by conventions and he's

(01:04:20):
trying to push the envelope allthe time with uh things you
maybe didn't think belonged onthe sports column until you read
it in g college.
Like he had this one runningbit every year about bear season
in pennsylvania the bear, theBears versus the humans.

(01:04:40):
The humans win again and youknow with the stats but really
it's not fair.
But he would give theplay-by-play.
The Bears thought they hadsomething this year, but once
again, you know.
Humans undefeated, Right right.
So he would do things like that.
That I think were great.
Smizek was really good.

(01:05:00):
So he would do things like that.
That I think were great.
Smysuk was really good.
Other columnists in otherarenas, like Peter Leo I liked
him.
He wrote a humor column for usfor a long time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Did he get along with Kaiden?

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
I got along with him Speaking of Surly.
Yeah, he had an edge to him,but I got along with him.
And certainly Smysuk had anedge to him, them uh, and
certainly smizik had an edge tohim, but uh, smizik, I think,
drove the the sportsconversation in pittsburgh as
much as anyone ever has.
Fair.
Yeah, uh, so I, I liked youknow, and he's pittsburgh born

(01:05:34):
and bred, so he knew the townand ron cook.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
I thought was great too his profiles in particular I
think were, I think he oftenuniquely, would say write what
many Pittsburghers were thinkingin that language too well said.
Now I kind of understand thatwell geez, what a treat to have

(01:06:00):
you here oh, it was my pleasure.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
This has been a lot of fun.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
This has been an absolute blast.
That's about a pipe dream.
Brownie that's not going to beused forever now, michael.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
The pipe dream and the emerald for the Irishman.
The king, the king.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Yeah, king.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
What was the name?

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
I don't remember, I know you don't, matt Bryan.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
That's why I asked you Matt.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
Bryan.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
There was a King, brian O'Neill, like 12, 15.
I looked him up one time.
The Vikings kicked his ass.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
So that he's kind of like the bear.
He was the bear, that's right,that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
That's good.
A lot of fun.
Enjoyed it and make sure youlike and subscribe and join us
next time.
Another edition of Hold myCutter.
Hold my Cutter.