Don Kelly's Remarkable Path in Baseball

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Discover the magic of Pittsburgh baseball and the vibrant Yinzer culture in our latest episode of Hold my Cutter, where Greg Brown and Michael McKenry are joined by a special guest. We kick off our discussion at Burned by Rocky Patel, diving into the fascinating world of the San Andreas cigar and its humorous connection to Don Kelly's adventures. You'll get chuckles from our debate on what truly defines a "Yinzer," with John Wehner taking the spotlight as our appointed "judge" of this unique identity. As we explore the baseball journeys of Donnie Keller and others, we paint a picture of PNC Park's serene beauty under the night sky and the passion that fuels a lifelong love for the game.

Journey alongside us from high school diamonds to the major leagues, as our guest shares their personal growth story marked by unexpected opportunities and perseverance. Learn from the impactful mentorship of legendary coach Ed McCloskey, whose innovative coaching methods left a lasting legacy in baseball. The tales of triumph and challenges faced in the Coastal Plain League, including the thrill of being drafted by the Detroit Tigers, highlight the transformative power of resilience and determination. Our conversation reveals the importance of embracing competition and seizing every opportunity, echoing lessons that resonate in modern coaching practices.

We wrap up with an exploration of resilience in the face of adversity, from overcoming injuries to crafting a liberated mindset in professional baseball. Hear stories of personal growth and serendipitous meetings, like the heartwarming basketball connection that led to a lifelong partnership. As we recount the experiences of facing iconic teams like the Yankees, you'll gain insights into the pressures and privileges of major league baseball. Celebrate the development journey of the Pittsburgh Pirates and the remarkable resilience of players like Jared Triolo. Stay tuned as we welcome the legendary Don Kelly to share his captivating career stories, promising more engaging and insightful conversations in upcoming episodes.

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!!!

www.holdmycutter.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Hold my Cutter.
We're coming your way here atBurned by Rocky Patel, just a
few blocks down from PNC Park onthe North Shore.
Greg Brown, michael McHenry and, as always, our special guest,
decides on what our smoke of theweek is, and this one is the
San Andreas, the Rocky Patel,and it is a doozy son Dark

(00:24):
Mexican San Andreas Madurowrapper.
Finally, aged for no less than11 years, the Rocky Patel
Vintage 2006 San Andreas,another addition to the vintage
line, one of the finestcollections of premium cigars on
the market, created in Rocky'sNicaraguan Cigar Factory and
Fort usually nicknames thesecigars.
Do you have one?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
in mind.
I do so.
06 was my draft, you know.
So this was built in 06.
Drafted number one, just likeLuke Hochaver.
So this is the hoach, this isthe hoach.
The hoach, yeah.
And two, we should maybeclarify how this was found,
please.
Right, the San Andreas Faultshakes you to the bones, right?
So how he gets the tobacco.
Rocky Patel I don't know if youknow Don Kelly, rocky Patel

(01:05):
Good buddies, he's the Don Wentdown in the fault when they were
playing in LA.
Not only did they play well outthere, he went and got us
tobacco to make this cigar.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
All true.
Don Kelly, all true.
Do you like it?
I love it, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
It was risky.
Thanks for this selection.
It was risky.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
You just did make it out of there.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
The fog got shaky when he went down there.
It's like Chuck Norris, youknow what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
The Don the Don.
This is a beauty, san Andreas.
Don Kelly, who some consider Ido, I consider you a yinzer.
My broadcast partner, johnWainer, does not.
We call John the judge.
He makes the decisions.
Oh yeah, judge, john, he makesthe decisions on who's a yinzer,
because he's a carrot guy andhe thinks that anybody outside

(01:46):
Pittsburgh proper can't callhimself or herself a yinzer.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
What is?

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Pittsburgh proper?
Do you know that?
I don't.
But I mean, I'm kind ofstruggling with this judge
nickname oh yeah, judge John.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Oh yeah, he judges everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
He's also an executioner, but we don't talk
about that side of the bat.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Well, we need to get rock in here.
We need to talk about trueYenzers, because there's a lot
of people that would takeoffense to that, including you.
I do, I do, you're right.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
You know that you don't have the dialect, you
don't have the Yenzer, you nevercall like a.
I don't know what they a steelmill.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
You know Brownie.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Oh, you can do the dive pad.
Yeah, we got it in there.
You've just cleaned it up sinceyou've become a big league
coach.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
That's one thing about Wainer.
You should watch his old gameswhen he first started.
It's hilarious Because he hadsome really yinzuri's going.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
It still comes out when he gets a little fiery in
there, it comes out.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
It's like everything in his soul just comes out of
him.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Donnie, we had him in here earlier for Hold my Cutter
, and he had a few coffees.
How about the coffee?
The coffee's great, sir PipingHot.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Or.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Ice Coffee is what we've got going today.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Yeah, yeah, we like the Ice Coffee.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Donnie Keller, our guest.
Now six seasons coming up on apirate coach.
Can you believe how fast it?

Speaker 3 (02:59):
is going Six seasons, six, six, six, six.
Wow, that's crazy, isn't it?
What's it?

Speaker 1 (03:03):
like for a Yinzer to be back wearing a Pirates
uniform.
Maybe take us back to when yougot the call that you were going
to be.
We'll get to your playing days,but what was it like to come
kind of full circle and become acoach now for the Pittsburgh
Pirates?

Speaker 3 (03:21):
I can just tell you from my standpoint walking out
at night after games, I justit's unbelievable.
It's so surreal.
Leaving the dugout, I walkedthrough the field every night.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
You still feel that way, even now when you walk
through.
Oh, that's great.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Nobody's in the stadium, the city is lit up,
it's the most beautiful ballparkin America and to walk out by
myself sometimes my boys arewith me to get that experience
as a yinzer, to be with thePirates and be here since 2020
and to get that call in 2019,December of 19, that they

(03:56):
offered me the job to come backas the bench coach.
Just an awesome moment as aPittsburgher to be able to come
back and be here.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Do you ever?
I do this every now and then.
Then I haven't done it inprobably about a year or so,
just games over.
We obviously do the post gamenow in the studio, but I used to
sit and kind of watch them pickup.
Used to they pick up at night,now they pick up in the morning,
but like I just sit there andkind of like just let life calm
down.
It's such an incredible, likesurreal place, especially with
the lights on.

(04:24):
Like you said, do you ever justkind of go sit out in the
stands or sit in the dugout fora little while after the?

Speaker 3 (04:28):
game it is.
You know, I haven't just satthere but just walking and
taking my time walking out inthe the.
There's only certain they killthe lights.
There's only like one light oneach light tower that's giving

(04:49):
enough light.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
It's almost a little heavenly, it is.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
And you see the city and it's calm and it's a really
cool feeling.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Baseball in your blood, huh.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
It is From day one, do you remember?

Speaker 1 (05:00):
What was it?
Why baseball?

Speaker 3 (05:01):
I don't know.
My dad loved the game.
He got me into it and just tookto it, loved it the ups, the
downs, as we all know, there's alot of failure in it, but
learning through that,continuing to grow and get
better, and just always enjoyedthe game of baseball.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
You're folks both from.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Pittsburgh, From Pittsburgh.
Born in Butler.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Okay, that's the interstate, it's still theenzer
territory.
We got to ask Rock, you knowhow far does that go Surrounding
?

Speaker 3 (05:30):
counties.
Yeah, going out there fromButler moved to Mount Lebanon
when I was three.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
What did they do for a living?

Speaker 3 (05:35):
My dad was a banker, my mom was a homemaker and, like
I said, mount Lebanon when Iwas three and have lived in
Pittsburgh ever since and youhad the big growth spurt, didn't
you?
I did so as a junior.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, this one hurt me to the core a little.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Junior in high school you had a little bit of a
growth spurt.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Just listen, you did.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, yeah At 11.
And then it stopped, dude.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
yeah, and I didn't start growing really until I was
a junior.
I was five, eight, five, nineas a junior in high school and
now now I'm six, four I grewlate, and here's the thing that
I'll tell you this story.
And I was telling alex avila indetroit the one year when I was
a junior in high school I wasin I would play second base.
We had a guy named josh wilsonwho was he was okay, he was all

(06:22):
right.
Yeah, pretty good player himself, best high school player that I
had ever seen myself play andwe had a senior shortstop, mike
neemeth, who ended up I believehe went to colgate.
He was a senior shortstop.
Josh would play second.
When josh would pitch, I wouldplay second base.
Well, josh is pitching, you'renot going to dh for josh.
So here I am as a junior.

(06:44):
No, they would dh for me and Iwould only play second base.
So I'm telling alex avila thestory in detroit.
Leland comes walking by.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
That doesn't sound like a bad effing idea you think
I can get away with that sogood, it's classic oh my gosh,
so uh, so you end up mount levinin high.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
So you end up Mount Lebanon High School and you end
up starring there and then goingto Point Park.
Fellow pioneer, you're in thePoint Park Hall of Fame.
Your numbers at Point Park wereinsane.
Go ahead, sorry.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
So you're a junior, you're 5'9".
How much you grow between yourjunior and senior year?
Is that when you?

Speaker 3 (07:19):
had that score 6'1".

Speaker 2 (07:21):
So did you just become like the guy who was DH
for, to like kind of legendary?

Speaker 3 (07:25):
No, or did it take some time to get all this to
work together?
It really didn't happen until Iwas at Point Park that I really
developed and got better.
But my senior year I startedoff hitting ninth and worked my
way up and by the end of theyear I was hitting fourth.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
I tell kids all the time wait for it.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, it's going to come.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
You know if kids all the time wait for it, yeah, it's
gonna come.
You know, if you grow lateyou're gonna surprise everybody,
but your growth will continuewhere I was 12 throwing 86.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
You know when you know, when I was 18, I was
throwing 86.
You know, it's a big difference.
Yeah, so that's awesome.
Uh, speaking of so, edmccloskey, your coach, yeah, I
mean talking about legend, right, legend at mount lebanon yeah,
and now he's like an assistantfor his son.
Yeah, what makes a guy like EdMcCloskey so good?
He's like 85 or so years oldnow.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
He's his assistant for his son Matt.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
Now he's assistant on the team.
That's incredible.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Yeah, mrs McCloskey was my third grade teacher.
Oh my gosh.
So I had her in third grade andthen Ed as a coach.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Was that a recruiting violation of some sort?
Probably yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Get away with it.
So last year, my senior year,we won the state title in
Pennsylvania and last year wasour 25th anniversary.
So to be able to have, therewere 18 guys that came down to
PNC Park, that we had a reunionof sorts and Ed came down.
And when you talk about Ed, thepassion that he down, and when
you talk about ed, the passionthat he has, when you talk about

(08:48):
passion for the game juststudent of the game still at 80
some years old, still you cantell being around him he loves
the game of baseball.
Just continually learning andjust tremendous guy.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Do you remember anything?
Any lessons from those daysthat that still kind of hold
true truisms?
I guess these are kind ofbasics now in baseball.
Any lessons from those daysthat still kind of hold true
truisms?
I guess these are kind ofbasics now in baseball.
Any level in baseball, right,that you could learn from even a
high school coach, of course.
Oh, no doubt, Right.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, you're always learning, especially at that age
.
The one thing that I loved andlooking back now as a coach that
he did our senior year he wasvery regimented, very
disciplined and everything.
But the coach that he did oursenior year he was very
regimented, very disciplined andeverything.
But the one thing he did.
He knew that that team wasspecial and when we would
practice it was a coach pitch bp, but there was, there was

(09:35):
defense out there.
Right, you had to play theposition that you were going to
play the next game.
The first three innings, thatwas the teams.
The last three innings wereours and you could play any
position you wanted.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
You guys were taking their shirts off, that's amazing
.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Oh, it was freeing you know guys it freed guys up.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
And what about the competitiveness?

Speaker 3 (09:55):
oh, competitiveness, yeah, and you're you're playing
against each other in acompetitive environment,
practicing but allowing.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
He allowed us to be ourselves too well, that sounds
like something that you takeeven to this day in spring
training the guys.
Then, as you, as bench coach,you set up these spring training
drills and you'll do that.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
You'll let these guys play just for for fun, as you
say, freeing no doubt, and theone thing that that we've done
um a couple years.
We didn't get to do it thispast year because the timing I
don't know, the schedule wasjust kind of crazy.
It seemed quick, it was quickand we didn't have back-to-back
days at home.
It was like it was every otherday and it was there, was no,

(10:34):
the rhythm was kind.
It was good for a sense ofgetting the guys there, but
disjointed yeah, disjointed alittle bit and we've had
outfielders take infield andinfielders play outfield and
guys just love getting to adifferent position and kind of
looking back at high schoolthat's kind of that's where some
of that comes from is like guyslike ed that allowed us to

(10:57):
experience different positionsand freedom to just go out and
play well, you've heard the.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
The whole like thing that's going viral right now is
like don't specialize in yoursport now tell kids you can not
play all kinds of sports?
yeah, yeah but that's kind ofwhat you're doing when you're
playing all those differentpositions right, when you can
move guys around, you're makingtheir bodies move differently.
They have to fill things and Iabsolutely love that, because
some kids just don't want toplay basketball.
They don't want to playfootball, they love with

(11:23):
baseball.
And I'm like you can't takethat away from that kid, but
don't marry him to a position at13.
And that's what a coach likethat, like you, don't hear about
that very often anymore.
Most of the coaches now want towin now at 13, 14, all the way
through high school.
That's so cool.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
The fact you can implement it now too.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
It's cool, really cool.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Why Point Park?
How'd you end up there?
Great question, brownie.
So I had opportunities atDuquesne in West Virginia to be
a recruited walk-on or go toPoint Park as a scholarship
player and get to play as afreshman, and best decision that
I ever made was going to PointPark.
Why do you say that I wouldn'tbe sitting here right now?

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Really, I can guarantee you.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
Because to get there as a freshman and be able to
play as a freshman and go to aplace that I wasn't fully
developed, you know, a placethat allowed me to grow, rather
than going to a d1 school andsitting the bench until junior
senior year, going to point park, getting to play, building
confidence and developing myselfphysically but also as a person

(12:27):
, was the best thing that everhappened.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
What was that process ?
Take us through your freshman,sophomore, junior year, kind of
how.
That kind of manifested becauseyou're 6'1 going in.
I'm guessing I was 6'1" 6'2".

Speaker 3 (12:38):
I grew a little bit at Point Park.
I was probably 6'2" 6'3".
By the time I got there I grew170 pounds soaking wet.
It's a beanpole yeah so I hadnever really lifted before.
So to get to a place where Istarted working out, started
lifting, started maturing andplaying, as a freshman I played

(13:01):
third base my freshman year andthen switched over to shortstop
my sophomore and junior year.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Big shortstop, man 6'4".
Yeah, that's too low.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
Yeah, I wasn't as good as too low.
Not many, are I thought youwere going to compare to.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
O'Neal.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Oh man Cruz.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
You need more stilts, tall shortstops, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, so after my sophomore year I got the
opportunity to go down toPetersburg, Virginia, and play
in the Coastal Plain League.
And that was really what yearwas that?
I was there in 2000.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Okay, I played there in 2005.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
Who'd you play?

Speaker 2 (13:35):
for the Swamp Dogs.
Wow, was that Fayette, fayetteyeah, I think it collapsed
recently.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Did it?
Yeah, I don't think it's.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
The coach owned the team him and his dad and I think
it just collapsed recently.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
That doesn't get as much attention as the other
leagues.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
No, it's kind of like behind Cape Cod, maybe north is
it Northwoods or Northwoodsit's Northwoods, Coastal Plains,
Coastal Plains you play as manygames, it's just the travel's
not as bad that Northwoods is nojoke.
Is it like?

Speaker 2 (14:02):
13, 14-hour bus trips everywhere you go.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Wow, that's crazy.
So, Donnie, is that whatstepped things up for you in
terms of your development andwhen?
I guess the Tigers took notice?

Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah, so I think it was going into.
So I went down to CoastalPlaying League in Petersburg,
had a good showing down.
There came back and Mike Wilsonwas the head coach at Duquesne
at the time and Josh's dad, andhe ended up having a scout day
which was awesome, duquesne.
And then we followed Point Parkafter they were done and that

(14:35):
was like the time thateverything jump-started and
started to kind of getrecognized as an NAIA player.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
What was the draft like for you in the Tigers?
Select you oh it was crazy.
How big a day was that.
Where were you?
I was at home.
And back in the Tigers selectyou oh it was crazy.
How big a day was that whenwere you.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
I was at home.
And back in the day.
I don't know how it was whenyou got drafted for it.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
This was 2001,.
Right, this was 2001.
Eighth rounder and it was allon the computer.
And you were listening for ohthat's crazy.
No MLB network yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
No ML, yeah, and they said that you'll probably get a
call 20 minutes before.
I never got the call.
We heard it on the computerbefore I got the phone call.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Oh man Same Did you really.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Yeah, it was wild.
So to hear your name called,that you were drafted was really
awesome.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
And who called you?

Speaker 3 (15:20):
Oh my God, Remember who the person was.
You know what I think it was.
Lou Laszlo was the guy thatscouted me.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Lou Laszlo was the guy that scouted me.
I think it was Dan.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Lunetta involved at the time Lunetta was there at
the time.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
So the Tigers draft you?
Were you bummed out at all?
Were you thinking the Pirates?

Speaker 3 (15:32):
maybe I did so, I don't know if you remember a guy
named Elmer Gray.
Oh yeah, Legendary.
Legend scout and I knew Elmerhad scouted me and I knew that
he had turned me in.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
So I thought there maybe was a chance with the
Pirates, but ended up going toDetroit, go to the Tigers, and
now this sets the stage for yourdevelopment in so many ways, I
would think, because a number ofminor league cities you don't
make it to the big leagues withthe Tigers you end up signing
with the.
Pirates after a handful ofyears in Detroit's system.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
And that jump.
So NAIA Coastal Plains,obviously you're playing a
little bit better competitionconsistently.
Did that prepare you for whatyou were going to face in rookie
ball and short season?
And as you went forward,because, like it's a big
difference, because like Iremember them saying you know
when you get into pro ballyou're going to face friday
night guys every day yeah andthen, as you move up, it's the

(16:24):
best friday night guy.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
Do you move up?
It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
You're running into good competition in NAIA, but
you may face a guy every othertime.
I was in a mid-major and mostof the Friday night guys were
drafted, or maybe a closer ortwo, but I never saw that
Saturday night guy that you justfeasted on.
How was that adjustment for you?

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah, really good question.
I think that, coming from PointPark, where one for you?
Yeah, really good question.
I think that you know as comingfrom point park, where we
played our home games in inbutler, at pullman park, so it
was a hour drive.
To play our home games, we usedto practice underneath the
bloomfield bridge, so you havethe grit that's for sure, that's
where that, like you know, youtalk about love for the game.
We're hitting wiffle balls onthe wharf yeah, fishing them out

(17:05):
of the.
Out of the.
I go to Oneonta and here we'vegot batting cages and you know
I'm looking at it like holy crap, this is unbelievable.
Some of the Friday night guysare coming in and like oh man,
this is not North Carolina orTexas or Bandy.
And so to have that perspectivegoing into it and get to face

(17:26):
those guys.
You know, yeah, it wasdifficult, it was challenging,
but that's what we live for nodoubt you know, that's what we
live for and when, when you goin there and you get that
opportunity to face those guyslike um.
I'll never forget we were goingback to coastal plain league and
we faced a guy named bubbybuzzacaro and he was undefeated

(17:47):
made it to the big leagues withuh, atlanta, really, yeah,
really good pitcher, especiallyI forget where he went north
carolina, wesleyan or somethinglike that but he had never lost
in the coastal plain leaguebefore.
He was undefeated.
Wow, and we go out to face himand I'll never forget our coach.
He's like hey, in order to bethe best, you got to beat the
best.
And we went out and beat theguy for the first time and it

(18:09):
was just like having thatexperience of like.
Then the confidence starts tobuild from, like you said,
coastal playing league.
Then you get in, you startfacing some of these really good
pitchers every night.
You start to prove to yourselfhey, I, you can do this.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, so cool and you're playing oneonta, right?
So, uh, is that where you metmike rubello for the first time?
Yeah, that's the low level ofthe tiger system, and mike
rubello then becomes a coach forthe pirates, for the pirates,
thanks to you, I guess.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
Well, or vice versa I don't know about thanks to me,
uh, but we were teammates andwhen shelty we were.
When I got hired, we weretalking about people to bring in
baseball good baseball peopleand Rabs is a really really good
baseball person and nobodybetter to get into the system.
But yes, we were drafted thesame year Two meets throughout

(18:58):
the levels.
No.
So Rabs, first year in Oneonta,second year in West Michigan
and then missed like a coupleyears and then we got back
together in, I think, 05.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
By the way you know, I think he struck out 16 times
all year, that first year atOneonta.
Maybe that's too many.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (19:15):
what it was 16.
16 times.
You had some kind of crazyrecord at Point Park.
Your philosophy was always putthe ball in play.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
I want to hear those numbers at Point Park too, by
the way, I know you got themCrazy numbers.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
What is it?
I want to hear those numbers.
His numbers at Point Park arecrazy.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
I only know one of them and the only reason I know
this is I just ran into the guythat really taught me how to hit
.
That was instrumental.
There were two guys.
One was Al LeBarry, who is ahitting coach still in Carnegie,
pa.
If you ever get a chance, swingby his place.
It is phenomenal.
You talk about the Rockytraining gym.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Oh, it's my favorite.
Yes, you got to go, I got to go.
You got to check him out.
Write down the address, I'llshow you.
It's a one-room.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
You would consider it a hole-in-the-wall type place.
But he just breathes, he's justbreeds.
He's your mickey, he's the guy.
Yeah, you know, come on, donnie, if you get down there.
So the other day, um my twooldest, brett and luke, we ended
up popping in to say hi to himjust out of the blue and he
started talking to the kids andhe was like telling them this
story about when I was at pointpark and I was going to get

(20:21):
drafted and I only struck outfour times the whole year in 104
hundred and four years.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
That's so dumb.
Do you have it?
158 at-bats?
Well, first of all, in threeyears at Point Park, he struck
out 20 times in three years.
Three years.
His OPS freshman year 978.
Next year 1,059.
Final season, point Park 1,092.
Whoopsies 20 total strikeouts.

(20:50):
But I didn't hit for power.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
And I think that's who I was at the time.
I never really became a powerhitter, but I think when you
look at development of hitters,to have that approach going in
of back control, control thezone, opposite field approach
and then learn as I grew up anddeveloped how to pull the ball

(21:13):
and how to drive the ball atpoint park I didn't drive the
ball much, I was on base, steelbases, score runs, do that.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
And you always have something to fall back on.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
I love guys that can control the barrel because you
can teach quote unquote, whetherit's in the weight room or
whatever else.
Power.
I love guys that can controlthe barrel because you can teach
quote unquote, whether it's inthe weight room or whatever else
.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Power, Power comes.
If you're making consistentcontact, good things are going
to happen.
Yeah, I agree, that's awesome.
Were you ever frustrated,Donnie?
Six years in the Tigers minorleague system?

Speaker 3 (21:41):
Any frustrations that you didn't get an opportunity
to play in the big leagues withDetroit at that time.
That first go around?
Really good question, but I did.
They put question, but I did,so I they put me on the 40-man
roster going into 04 and I endedup getting hurt, which, in
hindsight, was one of the bestthings that ever happened to me,
because why is that so it ledme to?
There was a guy that was is wastraining me here, steve aramis.
He's still around.
He's at amerifit in mountlebanon and I'm actually taking

(22:03):
my boys there now.
He's training my boys, but hewas the one that was
instrumental in figuring outwhat was going on.
Took me to a PT up in Adrian,michigan named Gary Gray.
They figured out that theshoulder problem that I was
having was really a problem inmy left hip.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Oh my God, the cross dominance.
Yep, you're speaking mylanguage wrong.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
Ended up helping me gain more power as a hitter,
because you're moving.
Now I'm moving better, I'musing my legs, so if I didn't
get hurt, I don't know if wewould have figured that out.
But had a terrible year.
They took me off the 40 man,went back in 05.
Had another really good year.
They put me back on the 40 manafter 05, going into 06, and I
was terrible really terrible.

(22:44):
So here's a kid from mountlebanon and I don't I hate to
jump on any questions.
You have this will lead into it.
No, no is.
Here's a kid from mount lebanonthat grew up trick-or-treating
at jim leland's house that'scrazy so I used I swear he gave
out the he gave out the bigcandy bar.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
The worst candy like the worst, the worst.
I don't think I ever saw acandy bar.
What do you mean, hey Katie?

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Katie kids at the door, Go, go, go.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
You never saw Leland.
You saw Katie Boo.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
We used to make sure we hit Leland's house because he
gave the big candy bars.
Now Tigers put me on the 40 manand they hire Jim Leland as the
manager Stoked and scared todeath.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Did you want the big candy bar too?
Oh, I asked them first day.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
So to have Leland as my manager.
And here's another good storyfrom Jim.
I'm sitting there in springtraining getting ready for a
game we're playing the Yankeesand Leland walks by my locker.
I'm just sitting there he goes,kelly playing shortstop today,
batting third against theYankees on ESPN.
Don't shit your pants, dude.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
Oh my gosh.
First ground ball right throughmy legs.
No way you got it out of theway.
Yeah, literally, yeah, it wasbad, literally, literally, shit
my pants.
Unreal man, you've got to bekidding.
Yeah, it was literally.
Literally shit my pants.
But just a little bit.
Just a little bit so yeah andthen.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
So then from I made that mistake and then I played
scared.
From then on I was just springtraining.
Yes, because I and I wassupposed to make the team, but I
played so bad you played onyour heels, I did yeah I was
playing defensive.
I was playing not to make anerror.
I was playing not to strike out, I was playing not.
And through that, through thattime in my career, I learned I

(24:30):
got.
I got sent back to double athat year and I became like, um,
I guess the thing that wasgoing through my mind is are we
playing a game of do's, are weplaying a game of don'ts?
And mentally, as we start, as Istarted to go, it's like, okay,
if I'm gonna make it to the bigleagues, I gotta change this
from playing not to screw up toplaying aggressive, to play the
game of baseball and have fun,to go out there.

(24:52):
And, you know, do things theright way, play free, like I did
in high school.
And if I wouldn't have gonethrough that, I don't think I
would have would have learnedthat.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
So what was that year like then?
That last year in the minorswith the Tigers yeah, it was
hell.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
With the.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Tigers yeah, it was hell, but you're freed up.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
I didn't learn it until the end of that year.
When I was freed up was when Icame to Pittsburgh.
Oh, wow, okay, does that makesense?

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yeah, you think you freed up because you kind of got
out of where the don'ts were.
Is that what it was?

Speaker 3 (25:21):
No, got away from that, got away from that mindset
of not screwing up to going outand playing the game and then
so then it led into the Tigerstook me off the 40 man.
And I mean that off season waswild because the Tigers took me
off the 40 man.
In the beginning of September,carrie and I were dating.
At the time we were engaged toget married.

(25:42):
I ended up going back.
I re-enrolled at school atPoint Park.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Didn't know that To go back to do back.
I re-enrolled at school atPoint Park.
Didn't know that To go back todo it.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
I had a bad accident.
I got burned on my hand, hadended up.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
He saved somebody from a house fire.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Yeah, wait a second.
Terry and I.
What happened?
We had a little fire at thehouse.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
A little fire at the house.
Just a little fire Burned myhand.

Speaker 3 (26:07):
The dawn it was a grease fire.
Jeez, this was rougher than thefault that I went into to get
this tobacco.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah well, that's where you learn your lesson how
to get into the fault to getthese cigars.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
So anyway, long story short, ended up, the off season
was unbelievable.
I ended up graduating school,got married, signed with the
Pirates and then made the teamin spring training coming out of
camp.
So to go from playing the yearbefore not to screw up and
learning through that themindset of staying aggressive,

(26:37):
playing free, understanding whatthat takes and how that's not
the way to go and then to beable to change that going into
2007 with the Buccos was.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Do you think all that kind of gave you a perspective,
a lot Like what you're capableof?
Like you graduate, you getmarried, you burn your hand and
yet you're still going to camp,still going, yeah, well, no wait
a minute Don.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
You burned your hand before you were signed with a
club, yet I did.
Oh, they didn't know.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Did they know?
Of course they did.
You can say it now.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
Weird things that happened around the offseason.
There's this point about thehold my cutter.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
There's the stories that come out later.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
He could have played he would have been fine he could
have played.
I came in 100% in springtraining.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
Who made the call from the Pirates To sign me?
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
It was through John Mercurio.
Oh, it was.
I can't wait to talk to Merckabout this.
Did you ever know?
Oh, he'll say, yeah, I knew allalong.
Hey, merck's got some goodstories the same guy.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
How about that Merck signed Neil Walker too?
Wow, pretty good so you end upwere there other options too,
besides the Pirates?

Speaker 3 (27:42):
to sign that offseason yeah.
I can't remember that offseason.
As soon as you get a call fromthem, you're going right.
Yeah, as soon as the Piratescalled.
What was that like?

Speaker 1 (27:49):
to think I'm going to now play with the Pirates
organization.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, I was so excited.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
And your manager of the Pirates is spring training.
It's unbelievable, jim.
It's Donnie Kelly, man we love.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Don Jim Tracy.
I love this guy man.
He can play all the positions.
I played for Jim Tracy too, didyou?

Speaker 1 (28:10):
So spring training now.
You have a good spring,obviously because you made the
club right.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
I did yeah, A lot of things had to happen.
Freddy Sanchez got hurt andthen we had signed a guy named
Nick Green from Atlanta.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Nick Green, nick Green, nick Green and he got
hurt in spring training.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
So Mick Green, nick Green, nick Green and he got
hurt in spring training, so itgave me an opportunity to play.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
What a tribute.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
And I played second base a lot, a little bit of
shortstop and played well enoughto make the club.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
And your first big league.
By the way, you are one of onlythree Point Parkers, pioneers
to make the big leagues right.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah, I believe so.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
John Stupor, the pitcher, and Bobby.
Right, yeah, john Stupor thepitcher and, uh, bobby.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Madrish, bobby Madrish, when you say he played
for Seattle, yeah, seattle and Ibelieve.
Cincinnati okay, or maybedrafted by Seattle played for
Cincinnati something, but hemade the big leagues yeah you,
you and and uh, the other twoand uh.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
What was the first game like?
I think you pinch hit openingday down in Houston right April
2nd 2007.
How about this?
Michael McHenry loves theseties.
Ten inning, 4-2 Pirate win,Jason Bay.
It's the home run.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Jason Bay is the only other Pirate to win Rookie of
the Year before Paul Skeens.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
And the winning pitcher in that game.
Who was it?
Matt Capps.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
How about that Full circle?

Speaker 1 (29:27):
But you pinch hit for Damaso Marte in the ninth
inning and your first big leaguepitcher was Brad Lidge.
Brad Lidge, Hello Yikes.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Slider's real huh.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Oh, he was filthy.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
That was right in the middle of his prime, too
Unbelievable.
A couple days later you getyour first base hit and again
it's a pinch hit, pinch hit Inthe second inning.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
So that game.
Wait, wait, wait.
Second inning For Zach Duke,for Zach Duke, and that game was
against the San FranciscoGiants.
Barry Bonds hit two home runsin that game at PNC Park, and
again, being a kid fromPittsburgh getting my first hit
in the game.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
That was cool.
And to you know again, being akid from Pittsburgh, getting my
first hit in the game.
Oh, that was cool.
Man down, sorry, that's a don't.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
That's a don't yeah that's a don't, that's another
don't.
So, yeah, how cool was that tohave that be your first Stunk
losing Felt.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
Bad for Zach, yeah, but just very.
He was unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
And your first hit off of Russ Ortiz.
Oh nice, Pretty good stuff,yeah.
So yeah, you're watching BarryBonds.
How surreal is that.

Speaker 3 (30:36):
I mean unbelievable.
He's not watching.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
He's playing against.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
He's a different animal.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
You watch him growing up.
Now he's like right there,that's so cool, he's not
mythical.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
You didn't get much playing time.
25 games total for the Pirates.
Yeah, back to the minors.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
Back to the minors and again going back to learning
, being an everyday player inthe minor leagues, getting up to
the Pirates and being in autility role, not getting to
play every day it is, and youknow what I falling back into
that negative negativity.
You sit there and you wonder,okay, what do they expect me to
do?
I'm not getting an opportunity.
They expect me to go out andplay, and it becomes this

(31:14):
negative type of thing.
And what I learned that year isour brain doesn't have a switch
in it that can go from negative, complaining, feeling sorry for
ourselves and then you get anopportunity and now, oh, we got
to flip it on and be positiveand go and compete.
Plus, you've got to try as hardas it is, even being in that
role, to flip that switch, to bein that aggressive, positive
mindset, because you never knowwhen you're going to get that

(31:36):
opportunity to play.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
What did you tell yourself Like how did?

Speaker 3 (31:39):
you In that moment.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
I was not.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
It sounds easy, but it's really hard In know I think
it was reflecting on the yearafter 2007,.
Being in Arizona applying someof the things that I learned
through the minor leagues of thedon't type of mentality.
But then when I got theopportunity in Detroit is okay,
I can't control if I'm in thelineup when I get to play.

(32:01):
What's going on, I just have tobe ready.
And what is it going to takefor me to be ready whenever
Leland at the time needs me tobe?

Speaker 2 (32:10):
ready?
What was it?
What was you being ready?
How would you define that?

Speaker 3 (32:15):
It changed.
You know like it evolved andI'm sure you dealt with some of
the same stuff.
You know, when you're notgetting that opportunity to play
every day, what are some thingsyou can go to?
Can you stand in on a bullpen?
Opportunity to play every day?
What are some things you can goto?
Can you stand in on a bullpen?
Can you do velo machine?
Can you do?
What are the things that youcan go to that can help you stay
prepared?
You know, as a guy that playeda lot of different positions, I
had to take ground balls atthird.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
If I felt ready at third base, I was good
everywhere else you're one ofthe first I've heard that most
guys say, you know they need tomake throws, yeah, but most of
the time they say shortstop yeah, I had to be ready at third.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Isn't that interesting.
What do I?
That is speed, oh, the hotcorner, if it makes sense it's
shortstop, I felt like and Ididn't play short all that much
I knew that like, if, if I wasgoing to go in, it was probably
going to be third, maybe second,um outfield.
So the hardest one for me wasthird base so the timing of the
game was important there.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, wow well so.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
So now you go back to the minor leagues and you end
up playing in the minor leaguesat Indianapolis with Andrew
McCutcheon and Neil Walker right, yeah how cool is that?
Unbelievable.
That team was probably prettygood.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
It was pretty good.
We had Bixler, steve Pierce, uh, just awesome team.
Neil and I got to play.
I played short, he played third.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
He was playing third base at the time.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
So we shared the left side of the infield in AAA at
Indy.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
How did you end up meeting Kerry, by the way?
Is it through his brother, matt?

Speaker 3 (33:39):
No, it's funny, you ask, he swept off.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
I mean obviously he just came in.
It was a do immediately.
Very aggressive there, Yep.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
So when my sister and my wife played basketball and
they played on the same AAU teamin high school and then they
ended up going to the NECconference my wife Carrie went
to Wagner, my sister Ashley wentto Quinnipiac and I caught up
to Matt in 2003 in double-A.
He played for the Tigers aswell and I caught up to him in

(34:10):
double-A and still hadn't metCarrie.
Didn't know Carrie.
I go to watch my sister playher senior year at Quinnipiac
and followed her down throughWagner.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
This is what year.
Okay, and Matt ended up meetingCarrie after the game, after
Quinnipiac played Wagner inbasketball so everyone thinks
it's through baseball, but itwas actually through basketball
that we ended up meeting andthrough your sister, essentially
, yeah, yes, wow, so you spendthat one year at Indy.
And then what happens afterthat?

Speaker 3 (34:43):
season In Indy.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
After the one year of the Pirates organization, I
signed with the ArizonaDiamondbacks for one year of the
pirates organization.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
I signed with the arizona diamondbacks for one
year okay, and what happenedthere?
Triple a the whole year and butI did going there more lessons
the guy.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yeah, I met up with the guy joel youngblood, geez
yeah, it was a long time bigleaguer, yeah, long time.
Big leaguers played a number ofpositions.
How to?

Speaker 3 (35:03):
hit um.
You know different drills,different things.
It got me to feel somedifferent things and um ended up
then played the full year therein triple a, signed back with
the tigers in 09 and then endedup getting up that year a little
bit and then was with them from09 through 14 do you assume,
I'm sorry?

Speaker 1 (35:21):
no, no, no, go ahead I was just gonna say do you
assume that it was leland whobrought you back he?
He was your sponsor to comeback to Detroit.
You know what?
Leland loves you type ofplayers.
He did, he loves you and Wainer, well, he's that type of player
as a manager.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Like he's gritty.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah, so he wants his gritty players, which I love.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
The guy that called me to come back was Glenn Eazell
.
He was the minor leaguedirector.
And was Glenn Eazell, he wasthe minor league director.
And going back to your questionabout like opportunity and
everything, like I was kind ofhesitant at first because I
didn't know what kind ofopportunity I was going to get
signing back over there.
I wasn't sure and I really hadnever talked to Leland about
going back that year until I hadsigned back.

(36:03):
But I went back a differentplayer and a different person
too.
You know I was more confident.
I learned a lot going back intothat situation and you know,
playing in the playoffs yourselfyou learn it's different, it's
different.
And when you go through baseballright in spring training you're

(36:24):
competing to make a team right.
You feel that coming down tothe end you don't know what's
going to happen.
That matters big time.
You're feeling that pressure,these things that you go through
.
Then you get your first bigleague at bat and you feel that
pressure.
Then you know somebody's comingoff the DL or IL and you might
get sent down.
Somebody's got to get sent downand you start to feel that
pressure.
All these things add up thatprepare you for you can't take

(36:48):
them away.
You can't take it away and itprepares you for the pressure
you're going to face in apennant chase and in the
playoffs.
If you can't handle it inspring training and you can't
handle it when there needs to bea move made, how are you going
to be able to handle it wheneverthere's 45,000 people 57,000 at
Dodger Stadium screaming andall the pressure is on?

Speaker 2 (37:09):
When you signed back to Detroit, did you feel like
you had something to prove orunfinished business A lot when I
went back to Colorado.
When they called, I turned downthree big league deals and I
went to Colorado.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Because you wanted to prove to them.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
I think it was.
Prove it to me, prove it toyourself.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
That's really cool.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, I was thinking the samething when you were, you know,
asking that question like isthat kind of there, especially
when you showed up.
Because when I showed up I waslike, yep, I made the right
choice.
My family thought it was nuts,let's turn it down like
guaranteed money to go sign aminor league deal.
Because I was like, nope, thisis where I need to be and it was
the best opportunity for me toto stick, possibly for multiple
years.
But I wanted to ask you thatbecause you know we have some
similarities when it comes tokind of bouncing all over the

(37:52):
place and figuring it out as yougo.
Because yeah it had to feel goodit did and it is.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
It's like you, when, when you make that decision to
go back and you know like I hadfailed the last time I was there
was 06 and I played so bad andto go back into that situation,
knowing that the last time I washere I was really, really bad.
But I'm gonna prove it, I'mgonna prove it to myself and I'm
gonna prove it to them.
I can do this, I can play atthis level.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, so cool.
It really must make youappreciate players like you,
then, and really appreciate howtough it is especially higher
drafted players, but just aboutanybody when they get to the
major leagues.
We want success now.

Speaker 3 (38:40):
And I don't think there's a better example of this
than Jared Triolo this year.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah, Congratulations .
By the way, it's got to be agreat feeling for you too, A
gold-glover utility player.
I mean, that's all, yeah,that's the work that you helped
put in.
I mean, it's his, but you'vegot to feel so great as a coach.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
I feel great for him because when you look at his
season, it was tough, it wasreally tough.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
You could see it in his eyes.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Dude, like the way that he worked, the teammate
that he was, the work that heput in Offensively.
He starts off as the startingsecond baseman Struggles,
doesn't hit real well, goes tothe bench, stays ready every
single day and he booted.
I believe you can correct me ifI'm wrong.
I think it was the first groundball that was hit to him this

(39:24):
year and then he didn't makeanother error until I don't even
know when, like July August.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, it was a long time.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
It was a long time Bouncing around, bouncing around
to different positions now andthen to continue to work
offensively, to come on strongthe last 45 days of the year and
get his average up, geteverything up.
I don't even know what he hit,maybe 750 ops those last 45 days
the last 45 days he was better.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
He was better than average.
He's better than average youknow, into how many guys do we
see, because of his defense,makes him a glorified great
player.
Great player, yeah, you know.
And how many guys do we see?
Because of his defense, makeshim a glorified great player.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Great player and how many guys do we see that play
the game that when they're nothitting, they don't play defense
and it goes down?
They're just struggling andwhatever he was, the same guy
every day worked his butt offand for him to be rewarded with
a gold glove at the end, it'sjust.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
It won't be his last.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
No, it was awesome.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
So no doubt that your experience bouncing around at
the major league level helps ina big way when you're coaching
these players to do the samething.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Can I speak on that real quick.
You're invaluable to them.
That's from them talking to me.
You know like you're invaluablebecause you know Jack Wilson
taught me this and I learnedthis at the USA event.
I was his assistant coach andhe said you'll be their favorite
.
And I didn't know what thatreally meant until this year
when I got to manage for the 18Uat trials and I and I had to

(40:48):
discipline players, I had to getonto players and I wasn't the
favorite and I watched myassistant coach kind of fill the
gaps and that's the same thingto him that Jack said to me.
But there's some incredibleconnection you can have,
especially with what you've beenthrough with those guys and you
can see it I get to watch itover at Sportsnet all the time
when you're teaching themthroughout the game and they

(41:09):
have your trust but they'recoming to you, you're not having
to come to them.
That's when you know greatnessof a coach is there.
When a guy's coming to you, itshows that man, not only does
that guy respect you, he wantsto know how can I do better?
And I saw that all year thisyear.
You know, with with guys andthere was a lot of movement in
the infield, you know, but itwasn't just the infield, this is
multiple guys, even the olderguys, coming to you, and that's

(41:33):
just something I wanted to sharefor our fans, because that's
not normal Browning and you knowthat like it takes a lot to
earn their trust and once you do, you got to kind of hold onto
it kind of very gently and allowthem to do it, and you do a
great job of that.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
Well, I appreciate that.
I think that you know, lookingback on, when we talk about our
playing career and the ups anddowns and not just baseball, but
life like we don't you don'tlearn a ton through success.
You know you learn a tonthrough failure and things that
maybe you didn't do real well.

(42:06):
And now, being a parent tryingto pass that on to my boys of,
like, hey, when I try to coachyou, when I try to discipline
and teach and coach and doeverything, it's because I care
about you.
Coach and do everything, it'sbecause I care about you and I
don't want you, if I can helpyou, not make the same mistakes
that I did or you're going to.
But how can I help you throughthat?
How can, how can I help yourmindset?
How can I help you stay?

(42:27):
Try to stay level because, asyou know, that roller coaster,
the the players are going to beon, they're always going to be
on it.
So how do we stay level to tryto keep them?
Keep those dips and the peaks.
Keep that down too, because youknow the worst thing in this
game is when you start to feeltoo good about yourself.
And now you get up therebecause you know it's coming,

(42:50):
it's going to happen.
The next day.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, exactly exactly .

Speaker 1 (42:54):
The problem is, I guess it's a problem, but
there's extra pressure onplayers and the team in this
town because they want instantsuccess, because they want this
team to win so badly.
So again it's multiplied thatpressure because fans don't want
to.
Oh, he's failing, but in theend he's going to be better for

(43:16):
it.
Well, they take the person outof it as in the end he's going
to be better for it.
Well, you know, they take theperson out of it as a fan.
They don't want to hear that.
So there's that extra pressure,I think, on players.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
And you know what it's it's.
In my opinion, it's not justisolated to Pittsburgh, it's the
big leagues you know, like it'sthe, and there should be you
know like there should be.
There should be pressure.
I often get chills thinkingabout this.
You guys remember Pedro Gomez,Of course, so I mean awful.
What happened when he passedaway?

(43:47):
The?

Speaker 1 (43:48):
ESPN.
Espn baseball reporter Baseballreporter.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
And so 2012,.
We were playing the A's in theplayoffs and Kerry and I went to
Morton's across the street fromthe hotel just to grab like an
appetizer or something.
And we're just in there andPedro Gomez is in there and he
ends up coming over and talkingand saying hi, and I'll never
forget what he said.
It was the first time I'd everheard it, but he started.
He was like hey, tomorrow, whenyou're out there, remember

(44:13):
pressure is a privilege there,remember pressure is a privilege
.
Amen, and oh, like, what anugget of you know we we put
that pressure on ourselves andthere should be.
In the big leagues.
There's pressure to compete,there's pressure to succeed and
produce and win and you're goingto feel that.
But it goes back to what wewere talking about spring
training first, at bat.
You know you feel that pressurefirst time you get sent down.

(44:35):
You want to be in the bigleagues.
How do you manage that?
How do you continue to workthrough it, continue to calm
yourself down so your heartbeatdown, slow your mind down to be
able to stay competitive andstay aggressive in those moments
where and I know that you feltit and Brownie I'm sure even
announcing when you first got.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Yeah, we talk about.
Yeah, yeah, you still do itwhen, when the big games.
You still do when the big games.
You still feel it, you feel it.
And no doubt, the minute Idon't know if you felt this now
as a broadcaster for it, but theminute you start feeling real
good about what you just did onthe air the night before the
next day, it's a guaranteeyou're going to butcher the
English language like you'venever butchered it.

(45:13):
You're fumbling and bumbling,and that's why you've got to
stay level-headed throughout,whether you're on the field or
looking at the game or talkingabout the game.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
But you can always learn from it, right?
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
You always do.
Speaking, though, of pressure,so you end up playing in the
postseason four straight yearswith the Tigers 11, 12, 13, and
14.
The 2012 World Series you playagainst the Giants.
You helped the Tigers get, inboth instances, to those big
games 2011,.
Well, I should ask you first,your single greatest moment?

(45:45):
Is it the 2011 ALDS?
Yes, game 5.
At Yankee Stadium, leland batsyou second and you're playing
third base.
I didn't go back and look atthe other box scores.
Was that unusual?
Did you start every game that?
No, you did not.
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
I mean say some of your teammates.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
On that team.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
That team was really really good.
Oh, it was really good.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Miguel Cabrera, victor Martinez, scherzer,
verlander, porcello Pfister.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Fielder he wasn't there.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
yet he wasn't there, oh, okay.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Because the next year is when Victor Torres ACL
resigned Prince, so he came in2012.
2011, yeah, alex Avila, brandonInge Maglio Ordonez I mean come
on, yeah, so him not in second,I mean that's aonez.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
I mean come on, yeah, so he hit that in second.
I mean that's a big deal, it'sa great team.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
When did you find out you'd be starting.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Really good question.
So game four we were up 2-1.
I played right field in gamefour and we ended up losing that
game.
And after that game I was inthe elevator leaving with my dad
and my father-in-law and genelamont gets on the elevator and
he asked he's the coach.
He was our bench coach for thetigers.

(47:04):
He asked my dad and myfather-in-law are you guys going
to new york for game five?
And they're like no, we tooktime off work.
We can't get off work to go upthere.
And he's like well, you mightwant to.
He's playing third base, bat insecond and my butt old as well
wait a minute.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
So that's what you found out.
Yeah at the hotel, no at theballpark.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Yeah his sandra is drea's fault.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah so at the ballpark, on the elevator
, lamont tells you and your, mydad, my dad your father-in-law
that you're playing, and didthey?
I didn't sleep for two nightswhat a nonchalant way to tell me
.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
Yeah, we had that night and then the next night
not playing.
Well, we played that night,then we had a day off and then
we played the following night atYankee Stadium, game five, and
it was.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
So you're batting second one out first inning.
Yvonne Nova, former Piratepitcher.
I think it's an oh one count ifI'm not mistaken that sinker.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Oh, there's a little curveball oh, it was you got.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
He went down and got it in and he crushed it.
You, boogie, whipped it homerun yeah, I get chills thinking
how good did it feel,unbelievable, what's it feeling
like you know what at yankeestadium game five people have
asked me about that before.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
I said you know what it was like, because nobody
really knew who I am.
They know Miggy and all thesuperstars on our team, but here
I am about a second.
I hit a home run.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
But guys like you win those series.
It never fails.
It's crazy, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Yeah, and so it was like being the new kid at school
and walking, just popping themas hard as you can right in the
nose.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
You're just in the yard.
Bam, take that big dog I loveit being in Yankee Stadium.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
and then Delman Young .
We went back to bat Followedyeah, followed you in the home
run.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
And you went by one run that game 3-2 final.
But thinking back to that atbat, can you take us through the
whole thing?
You're walking off to the plate.
Yankee Stadium plays crazy.
And You're walking off to theplate.
Yankee Stadium plays crazy.
You know and you talk about.
You didn't sleep for two days,yeah.
And what are you thinking whenyou get to that plate?

Speaker 3 (48:59):
I don't even know, I blacked out.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah, like you're just, I mean you couldn't have
you said first inning Mm-hmmRight.
Second batter of the game.
I mean, look at those 68%sinkers.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
He throws.
Do you know what the rest ofthe game for me looked like?
No, I struck out three times noyeah, nobody, no, like nobody
talks about that because you getthe home run right.
Yeah, you know, and that liketo me it's the dichotomy of
basically like yeah, dude, wow,and whether you have the three
strikeouts first and you stillhave that fourth at bat you
still have an opportunity to doit, yep right and I hit the home
run in the first.
I didn't mean to strike out theX3, but it was the home run that
was the big hit and you neverknow in any game what pitch is

(49:42):
going to be the game winner.
Not saying that that home runwas, but you always have an
opportunity to do something tohelp the team win.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
The Tigers go on to play the Rangers, I think then
in the ALCS right, yeah.
Can't pull that out in 11.
We lost in uh six games downthere but then you get another
chance and in game two of thealds 2012, you're playing
oakland.
Now, if that moment wasn'tenough for you at yankee stadium
to help win against the yankees, now game two of the alds.

(50:12):
The tigers are up one game tonone.
You're're now in Detroit, atComerica, against Oakland, and
now you have a chance.
You come to the plate todeliver the game winning and you
do hit a fly ball to centerfield sacrifice fly.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
What was that like?
Well, you know, what I lovethinking about for that moment
is what happened before, becausethat year we signed Prince and
I did not.
I didn't have a good year.
I hit 180, 180, I don't evenknow, 170 something during the
regular season, got sent down toAAA.
I got taken off the roster,sent to AAA in August and then
got recalled in September backup to the big, put me back on

(50:48):
the roster so that the ups anddowns of baseball going down,
getting that is loaded.
I pinch ran for Delman Young,ended up scoring the tying run
in the eighth inning and then,when ninth inning came around, I
think Omar Infante was on first, Miguel Cabrera got a base hit

(51:10):
and Omar went first to third.
So Miggy's on first, omar's onthird, prince Fielder's coming
up with one out in the ninthinning.
Are you going to pitch toPrince Fielder or are you going
to pitch to me?

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Well, I don't know.
I'd have thought about it.
I'd look at some of the numbershere.
Well, Bob.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Melvin didn't think too long, he walked Prince right
away.
So like when you're going up tothe plate in that moment and
you talk about feeling it likefeeling the pressure and feeling
45,000 people screaming yeah, along time to think about it too
, because they actually had tothrow the four pitches then,
yeah, they did, you're right,it's crazy.

(51:44):
So going up there and beingable to come through and not
getting the winning run, I meanunbelievable.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
And then you go on to play in the ALCS, this time
against the Yankees, right, yeah, swept the Yankees right,
mm-hmm, yeah, swept the Yankees.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
What was that like?

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Ooh, sweep the Yankees, and then you go to the
World Series.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
World Series yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Do you remember being introduced on the foul line in
a World Series game?

Speaker 3 (52:07):
Yeah, San Francisco first and then at home.
I mean, that's what you playfor as a kid.
Like're five, six years old andyou're in the backyard dreaming
of that.
And I'll tell you what.
I got into a game in sanfrancisco and that ball was it
hit a fly ball.
To me that sucker was movingall over the place up there it
was not a normal flying rightyeah, right field man gosh and

(52:32):
so that, and so a world series.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Now it didn't work out in terms of winning the
world series, but just gettingto the pinnacle and having that
opportunity, as you say, that'swhat you dream about as a kid,
that you play for and now as acoach for the Pirates, donnie
and Michael and I talk aboutthis all the time, and when we
talk to fans who suggest andmore than one person has done it

(52:56):
that the Pirates' ownershippeople don't care about winning,
I follow up right away andthink do you know how much you
want, as a fan, the team to win?
Do you know how much I want, asan announcer, the team to win?
Do you know how much guys likeDonnie Kelly and the manager
don't want?
You don't think they want thisteam to win.
That's why you're there.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
That's it that's the only reason and trying to.
So when you talk about thatstuff, how do you continue to
get better, even through the upsand downs?
Like, yeah, last year was tough, it was a really hard year and
it was disappointing, I know,for the fans.
It was disappointing for us.
The only way that it's acomplete failure is if we don't
learn something from it to applyLike your whole career.

(53:39):
Yeah, like next year when we'rein it and we're fighting to do
it.
We have experience to draw onfrom last year.
So forgive me for not knowingthe exact timing of your career.
What was the first year thatyou came?
11.
11.
Dude, so you're there the wholetime.
2011, pirates get to August.
They get swept by somebody inSan Diego at home and they were

(54:01):
in it until August.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
We got destroyed by San Diego at home, at home, and
the wheels fell off, fell off.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
They fell off August and September 2012,.
Make it to September Wheelsfall off, fall off.
But it set the stage for 13, 13, 14 and 15 for the team to win.
And so the way that I waslooking at is like two years ago
we got to june and went tomilwaukee or chicago, milwaukee,

(54:27):
chicago lost nine straight tothose guys.
It fell off in june.
This year we skipped july, wegot to august and faced that
tough stretch.
So next year we'll skipseptember and go to october.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Well, I mean, I think something we don't talk about
about this year's team is howconsistent you were almost
through june.
I don't think we lost threegames in a row until sometime in
july right, yeah how good.
We just never rattled off thatnine game winner right, but you
know obviously august happenedbut off that nine game winner,
right.
But you know, obviously augusthappened but like that's the
thing is, like you're gonnalearn from that and the team

(55:02):
just keeps getting better.
But going back to his point,you know, the mitch kellers of
the world just don't happen.
He failed and failed and failed.
He didn't have the year hewanted.
There's no doubt in my mindthat man's gonna be back and
better.
You know, we're talking aboutpaul skeens.
He's ever.
We're talking about jared jones, talking about, you know, the
young bucks up and coming.
But a guy like mitch kellercould be the separator going in

(55:23):
next year, because this guy willprobably have an under four era
and be a difference maker,because every time he's gone
backwards he takes two stepsforward and if you get a team
like that which I feel like weare are, that's when it gets
real special.

Speaker 3 (55:37):
You're right and like I had, so we may get to this.
I'm not sure.
Yeah, we will, but after I wasdone playing, I got to scout.
The coolest thing for me is Igot to scout the Pirates, that's
cool, not even knowing who wereyou scouting for.
I was with the Tigers, okay, thepirates.

(56:00):
So now I got to see mitchkeller in double a dominate like
absolute dominate.
And I'll never forget a game Iplayed with michael ryan in
indianapolis he was the managerof the altuna curve that year
and we're they were inharrisburg.
Mitch is pitching not having agreat outing, but bases loaded
two outs in the fourth inningand and Michael Ryan goes out to
the mound and I thought he wasgoing to take him out.
He didn't.
He left him in and bases loadedtwo outs.

(56:22):
He gets to a 3-2 count and I'llnever forget the curveball he
threw this guy to strike him out, and it was one of those
moments that you're like wow,that guy's a dude right there,
it's in there.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Yeah, it's, that's a guy you know.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
And then I saw his last outing in double a that it
was almost a no hitter.
It just happened to be there.
And then I saw his first outingin triple a that he got
absolutely shelled and so liketo your point, mitch keller has
been through it he has he's gonethrough those ups and downs.
He's been.
He gets to the big leagues itwasn't all you know, linear

(56:57):
straight up, like.
He's been through those ups anddowns and there's no doubt that
he has that metal to come backand and be stronger and be that
guy for us.
He's like yeah, his developmenthas been unbelievable it's fun
to watch, fun to watch him growin the big leagues yeah, but
that's, that's what it takes.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
I mean betting on those guys, like talking about
triolo and Keller and Reynolds,like nobody talks about 2020
with Reynolds.
I know he's an outlier, butthat guy always hit.
There's no way that year didn'tmake him three times better
because he didn't use COVID asan excuse.
He was like why did I hit below200?
Like what happened?
He went home, he went to thedrawing board and got better.

(57:33):
And if you create a team likethat, which I think the pirates
have done a great job of puttingyou know the right guys in the
right place, you have leadersyou know that are going to lead,
people are going to follow,make it special, then, because
that's what it was in 11, 12 and13.
You saw that coming to life.
But there's a lot of peoplethat were in and out, like matt
diaz when he was here in 11, theimpact he had on the bench

(57:54):
players.
When, when Jay Hayes coming up,I'm coming up and we're trying
to figure out.
Like, dude, I've played everyday.
I used to play 130 games a year.
I'm playing every three to fivedays and then I played 25 games
almost in a row.
And then Doman comes back andI'm sitting on the bench and how
to deal with that, but I haveMatt Dye's arm around me, loving
on me.
Those are me loving on me.

(58:21):
Those are the separators andthat's what guys like donnie
kelly as he got older guy comesup, you can see it, put your arm
around him and you're seeingthat on the bench this year and
some of those guys won't be onthe team this next year, but
that effect resonates throughoutyou're right, no doubt about it
.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
It is so much fun to have the don with us, and our
next episode we're going to hearabout, uh, the pitcher, don
kelly, the catcher, don Kelly Awhole lot more to get to and
some of our guests here on Holdmy Cutter.
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(58:51):
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David Allen here for you, donKelly the Don here for us.
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