Kent Tekulve on Iconic Pitching, Reliever Evolution, and Pirates' Historic Moments

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Step into the world of baseball lore with our special guest, the legendary Kent Tekulve, renowned for his iconic sidearm pitching and unmatched durability on the mound. Discover the untold stories of his career as he led the National League in appearances and held the record for the most games pitched in relief. With humor and a touch of nostalgia, we imagine how Kent's career might have unfolded in today's game with new roles like the "opener." This episode promises a rich tapestry of insights into his exceptional journey and the evolution of pitching mechanics over the decades.

Join us for a fascinating exploration of the intricate dynamics between starting and relief pitching. We'll share candid experiences from the minor leagues, shedding light on the unique mindset and adaptability required for relievers. Hear about the memorable performances of Goose Gossage and his impact on the 1977 season, and relive the thrilling moments of a dramatic doubleheader victory in 1978. With strategic insights and personal reflections, this episode captures the unpredictability and excitement that make baseball history so compelling.

As we recount Kent's transition from a minor league starter to a major league closer, we also delve into the strategic lineup changes that defined a pivotal season for the Pirates. Discover how key acquisitions like Tim Foley and Bill Madlock strengthened the team's competitiveness, and relive the excitement of the 1979 World Series. With anecdotes of favorite managers, teammates, and unforgettable games, this nostalgic journey through baseball's rich past offers a celebration of the sport's enduring appeal and strategic depth.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
We welcome you to another episode of Hold my
Cutter here at Burn by RockyPatel.
We're just a few blocks downfrom PNC Park on the North Shore
.
We have a very special guestthis episode and he and our
guests will receive gift cardsfrom David Allen, david Allen
Clothing.
Great opportunity for you tostop by Pittsburgh's premier

(00:29):
men's custom suit and customclothing store in Mount Lebanon
on Washington Road.
David Allen Clothing gift cardsto our guests, and our guest
has suggested this is one ofMichael McHenry's favorites the
Rocky Patel no 6.
You like this one?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I do.
I call it the devil's breath.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah.
Well our guest calls it theRennie Stennett, with good
reasoning, but it has a 95rating.
Am I right on that Teague,rennie Stennett?

Speaker 3 (00:59):
It's the best no 6 I've ever heard.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
And our thanks.
Thanks as always to eric katzfrom berkshire hathaway home
services.
Ask eric katzcom aska-r-a-h-k-a-t-z.
Ask eric katzcom.
Yeah, here at uh, burned byrocky patel and the number six,
uh is a tremendous cigar, agreat smoke and, in case you
haven't guessed, kent to colbyis our guest, a former teammate
teague was saying this is kindof like a jumbo hot dog.

(01:27):
Was he saying that?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:28):
I mean it kind of looks like it, right, it's a
ballpark hot dog.
I mean, look at that thing.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
A bun that would fit right in there.
You could actually sell thatone as a super dog.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
You could drop down a sacrifice bunt with that.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
It could be a Superdog.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
He could drop down a sacrifice bunt with that you
probably could.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
No one would want to waste it on a sacrifice bunt,
you know hey they used to usebats like this Just, no handle
just all barrel.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
It's unreal.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
It's crazy.
Teak was a great hitter in hisday.
Oh yeah, he was telling me allabout it.
Also his base running.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
I don't know about it .
Also, his base running.
You were telling me about thattoo.
You were telling me about that,yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Kent DeColvi, of course.
16 years in the big leagues,184 saves.
Just a remarkable career, somany accolades, an All-Star in
1980, of course, world Serieschampion with the Pittsburgh
Pirates, pirates Hall of Famer.
And it all started well evenbefore Marietta College.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
Wait a minute.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Wait a minute, let's stop right here.
No, let's start right here.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Okay, let's start right here.
Hey, you just talked about whata great hitter I am.
Not one number did you mentionhad anything?

Speaker 1 (02:31):
to do with my hitter.
Is there anything good I cansay about your hitting?
Give me something.
I had about 20 sacrifice bumps.
Well, that's pretty good.
That's 20 more than McHenry had, but you weren't asked to bunt
much.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
You were a cleanup hitter in your day.
I don't know about that, butdidn't get us often.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Notice the emphasis on sacrifice.
Not bunting for a hit.
You had to run fast to get tofirst base.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Did you ever think you were going to get there,
though?
Did you ever fight for it?

Speaker 3 (03:01):
or did you just kind of give that?
Got it down, jogged a first,usually on the bunts.
I knew when it was down it wasokay, it was going to get the
job done.
It was the numbers that I wouldhit in the infield that I would
all of a sudden have thisflashback of being 15 years old
and thinking I could still beatit out.
I usually found out number oneI was out by three or four steps
.
And number two it took me about20 more steps after I went by

(03:24):
first base to actually getstopped.
I wasn't one of those guys whocould stop and just make a quick
U you got long legs, I get it.
Yeah, it was not pretty when Iwas at the plate.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
How about?
Are you aware, michael McHenry,of this guy's durability?

Speaker 2 (03:38):
I was waiting.
It's my favorite part aboutyour career?

Speaker 1 (03:41):
It really is he led the National League in games
four times, 90 or more games.
Say that again yeah, 90 or moregames, 90 or more games three
times.
But do you know he has therecord, the National League
record, for most games pitchedin the history of the National
League.
He's right here In relief, inrelief, yeah, in relief.
And how many is that?

(04:02):
Let's see, he'd probably know Ithink it's 1,050.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
Yeah, 1,050 1,050 games yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
I mean, it's unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
And the most innings pitched in relief.
The least number of games everstarted in the major leagues
Zero.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
That's relief right there.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
That's pure relief.
No, that's only being able todo one thing.
Well and doing it well, you andyour manager, both
understanding that that's theonly thing you can do.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
By the way, however, if you had pitched in the modern
era, you'd have been an opener.
You'd have been a pretty goodopener.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
You would have gotten a start.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
Oh, that would have ruined the record though.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
No.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
You would not have liked that.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
The opener's only been around for like 10 years.
Yeah, the game's been aroundfor 150 years.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
I like being in the 150-year category, okay but
let's just rewind the clock,let's go back and let's just say
that Danny Murtaugh or JohnFelski comes over to you and
says hey, you're going to be ouropener tomorrow, You're going
to say what's that?
Well, what is that he would?

Speaker 3 (05:06):
have got what a can of beer.
Nobody knew what an opener was,except we did know one thing
about an opener that if you loston opening day, there would be
no more beer sales in the restof the season at the ballpark
because we had lost the openerand you couldn't have any beer.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Nobody knew that much , knew that we had lost the
opener and you couldn't have anybeer.
We knew that much.
We didn't know openers.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
But the idea of starting.
Actually, you mentionedMurtaugh and you mentioned
Felski.
Neither one of them brought itup.
Chuck did actually bring it upa couple times.
We did discuss it a coupletimes, but Chuck being the smart
man, he was found a betteroption, like go to the minor
leagues and call Eddie Whitsonup.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
It was a pretty good idea one time.
By that point, you're thecloser and they're not going to
start.
It's a huge risk too.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
They're not going to open up with a closer Every time
they do it, it's a huge riskbecause you don't know how
they're going to handle it andif they're pitching really well
and it.
Yeah, I think when a guy'shaving success, you double down
on it.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Well, my biggest concern when we talked about it
was how am I going to warm up?
I can't warm up for 20 minutes.
My God, I'll be out of gasbefore I get.
I won't be able to walk fromthe bullpen into the dugout.
Yeah, so I was actually goingto go throw for about 25 pitches
in the batting cage in theclubhouse and then just walk out

(06:25):
to the mound and pitch thefirst inning.
If we ever did it, we never gotto it That'd be terrifying.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Just walks out of the dugout.
Nobody's seen him yet, yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Rubber band man baby.
That was the only note.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
You have these injuries and pitching changes,
and I was involved in a lot ofthose over the course of my
career.
If somebody would get hurt, Ihad to come in you know, without
warming up their ability.
Yeah, and I had the ability towarm up quickly.
I mean, it only took me 18, 20throws and I could be ready to
pitch.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
What's the least amount to go in like that you
did in your career.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Okay, well, we'll finish the first one first.
Okay, 18 pitches or whatever toget in.
So I knew that I could do that.
So if I got called into a gameand it was like a Sunday
afternoon and I knew the umpiresthey were flying commercial,
then had commercial flights thatthey had to fly out Sunday
night to get to where they weregoing I would ask the third base

(07:23):
umpire on the way, by what timedid you guys fly?
And he'd say it's like 6o'clock, we've got to get there.
Boom, I'd throw 18 pitches.
They were happier than hellwith me.
Boom, boom, boom.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
They're all calling strikes.
That's analytics right there.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
That's analytics.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Got to know your umpires.
Absolutely Know how to take careof them and they would take
care of you.
On the other side I had thisthing with Chuck that if for
some reason we got into a gameand all of a sudden something
happened, real quick, bing, bing, couple base hits, a walk, a
hit batter, whatever, and hehadn't gotten me up yet and he

(08:01):
needed me to be ready to go innow for the next batter.
Send the catcher out.
Do the usual thing Send thecatcher out.
Catcher gets chased back, Walkout slowly, Kill as much time as
you can.
By the time the umpire saysChuck, you've got to make a
decision, I told him I will beready.

(08:23):
I could get ready in 10 to 12pitches in the summer when it
was warmer, and in 10 to 12pitches and feel comfortable
enough to pitch to the firsthitter.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Okay, because of that .
So that's a secret weapon?
Then?
Yes, because the opposingmanager doesn't see anybody
warming up in the bullpen.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
That's a really good point.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
I'm going to get to Colby.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
The opposing manager is doing a dance in his dugout
because his guys are coming outof the dugout and getting on
base so quick.
He's not worried about who's inthe bullpen.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, but again I'm going back to this day and age
where they concern themselveswith who's up in the bullpen and
whatnot.
I mean, did, did.
Did tanner do that often?
No, it didn't happen.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Often, yeah no, it was.
It was more of a situation ofif you need this, I can do that.
If you need, if you get caughtin this situation and you, you
know, haven't, haven't gotten meup already or haven't started
me, I can be ready, that'sthat's incredible, because in
today's game they kind of createa threshold for them.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
You created a threshold and said this is what
I need.
To feel comfortable, that's theway it should be.
Like I can do it in 12 pitches.
I can pitch four days in a row.
We just don't hear that muchanymore.
That's really cool.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Well, that was kind of the way everybody did it back
then.
The communications were two-waybetween the managers and
particularly the relief pitchers, about how you felt after you
pitched two or three or fourdays in a row.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
And you were willing to say I don't feel great yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
That's cool.
We got to the point with Chuckthat on a normal day, just say
we were a normal day.
I pitched an inning the nightbefore.
I pitched two innings the nightbefore.
Whatever, if I don't come andtalk to you and tell you
something, count on me, I canpitch three innings.
That was my normal.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Three.
I only got three.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
That's the thing we didn't talk about the games.
Right Right 1050,.
I caught Latroy Hawkins'thousandth game.
It was a cool moment for me,but like thinking about him
throwing two, three inningsback-to-back days, no chance.
Love you, latroy.
Come on the podcast, but nochance.
That's the difference of yourall's era.
Well, you're talking about the1,050 games.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
I basically over that period of time, not bragging,
I'm just saying I averaged aninning and a half per game over
my career, for, you know, everyappearance that I made averaged
out to an inning and a half.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
You hear that.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
Some of them are a third or two thirds.
If we'd come in you know wedidn't just automatically start
the ninth If Grant Jackson waspitching and he's pitching well,
or whatever he would pitch andthen all of a sudden they get a
couple guys on, I might come inand get a save and only pitch a
third of an inning.
But then there were the othertimes where I would pitch three
innings.
And then there were the extremetimes we had about, oh, I'd say

(11:09):
four or five, maybe six of themover the course of my time with
Chuck, where I actually, indouble headers, pitched three
innings in both games.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
That's called a start .

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Six innings quality start.
I would throw three innings.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
in the first game it wasn't as bad as it thought, as
you would think it was, becausethere was only 20 minutes
between the games, so I was notpitching the second time after
having, you know, gone home,slept.
You know it wasn't a day night.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
I feel like when you wake up the next day you realize
what you did.
I I completely agree.
I wish I would try that.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
That's beautiful but maybe not three innings both
games.
But that's pretty sick becauseI you know they needed me for
both games.
We only had five guys in thebullpen and the other guys were
pitching too but take how muchof that was was your style,
because you were the.
I mean definition of a rubberarmed well, I think a lot of it
was given to me by the guy.
Yeah, yeah, above, um.
I was fortunate that I, youknow, the big joke was I did my

(12:09):
arm never got tight because Ididn't have any muscles to get
you know at the time did youever have arm problems at all?
no, in your career seldom Ifinally went on the the disabled
list when I was 41 years old,my second last year in
Philadelphia.
I went on for 15 days and itwas basically just a tired
rotator cuff.
I had just thrown too manypitches and at that age it had

(12:32):
finally given out on me.
But I really never had any armtrouble at all.
Part of it was the fact that Iwas just given an arm that was
resilient and some guys couldthrow more than others.
And I think the deliverybecause of the arm being down so
far where you can tighten yourshoulders or your muscles in

(12:54):
your tendons up in the upperpart of your shoulder that's
usually where your tightnesscomes from.
Well, well, with my arm slotand throwing from down here, my
muscles and tendons while I wasthrowing were always on my
shoulder bone, so they weresupported.
The normal guy takes his armand lifts it up.
Here.
All these muscles, all thesetendons are up in the air and

(13:18):
they're not supported.
So therefore they're doing thesame amount of work that I was
doing, they're putting the sameamount of strain on them that I
had, but they don't have thesupport that I had.
So I think that was factored inwith all the other things that
we talked about that allowed meto do what I did.
Did you always pitch that way?

(13:38):
I, of course.
You remember Bruce Keeson.
Yeah, bruce Keeson and I weretwins.
My whole life.
I was a dead sidearm pitcherand in fact, my first year in
1969 in the New York Penn League, bruce and I were on the same
team.
He had just been drafted theyear before out of high school
and I signed out of college.
So we're on the same team andthat, of course, 1969 is the

(14:03):
year after 1968 when Bob Gibsonhad the 112 run average.
They lowered the mound 112.
They did all this other stuff.
You don't remember Bob Gibson's?

Speaker 2 (14:14):
112.
I do, I do Every time I hear it, it just makes me go.
What?

Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yeah, so they decided okay, the hitters.
You know it's too tough on thehitters, we're going to lower
them.
So it went from 18 inches to 11inches.
They dropped the mound down.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
So you were right in the middle of that.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
Huh, you were right in the middle of that.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
I was right in the middle of out on the mound the
first time Did it feel like youwere throwing on flat ground?

Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah, the idea was that it was supposedly going to
make it easier on the hittersand the pitchers weren't going
to be able to have as much of anadvantage.
Professionally, my entirecareer I pitched on an 11-inch
mound, or what was supposed tobe an 11-inch mound.

(14:59):
The one in Houston was about 18inches, and JR Richards was
6'8" and he was throwingdownhill from the top of the
Astrodome, and Dodger Stadiumwas probably a little higher
than the other ones.
They didn't regulate it quiteas well as they do now.
But no, you got used to it andit was just part of you got used
to it and you know that wasjust part of what you got used
to and it affected the guys thatthrew sidearm less than it

(15:23):
affected the guys that threwoverhand, because they were
using the downhill plane todevelop leverage to throw it.
We were developing our powerfrom twisting in our long arms
and our long legs.
We had long arms.
You know most of those guys.
The guys that you saw were talland thin.
Okay, so, we had long arms, longlegs.

(15:43):
We had longer levers than mostguys, so we could develop power
that way, because we didn't havethe strength in our shoulders
and in our body to develop thatdownhill playing that everybody
else the normal pitchers weredoing.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Thinking about how much that would mess up your
biomechanics.
You know, seven inches is a bigdeal because they're stride
length, everything else mess itup.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
I want to go back and your foot's sitting on the
ground before it's supposed to.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
You're like oh man, there we go, there were a lot of
guys in spring training thatyear that when they were making
the switchover, they wereactually stumbling when they
were pitching because theirfront foot was coming back.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, my goodness, absolutely, because they're used
to that.
They call it riding the slopeRight.
Where'd the slope go right?
Yeah, the slope's gone, you'reon the body slopes.
Now You're like ooh ooh.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah, it's crazy, but just want to clarify.
So you always threw that way.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
I always threw sidearm.
That's what I mean.
I threw that way all the wayuntil I got the double A ball
and there was an old scout inthe organization by the name of
George Detour.
He had been around forever.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
So when did that start, though?
Like talking about high school,college, when you started
throwing sidearm.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
When I was nine years old the first time I picked up
the ball.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
I'd catch it with my dad in the backyard.
You said I'm going to be agunslinger.

Speaker 3 (16:55):
That was my natural way to throw Because I was
always told I didn't havestrength.
So I had long arms and longlegs and I developed that
Slingshot and stayed that wayall the way to high school,
college, all the way up todouble A ball.
I run into George Detour onegame.
He's just going around watchingteams in the organization.

(17:15):
He sees me pitch one night andhe says you know, teague, it
says your ball when you'rethrowing.
I'm still throwing sidearm.
When it's around the edges ofthe strike zone it's moving
really well.
It really sinks good,everything's good, your slider's
good, but when it actually getsinto the strike zone, when it's
in the actual strike zone, it'snot moving as well.

(17:36):
You got to find some way to getthat movement in the strike
zone Because what was happeningwas, as I was moving up levels,
the hitters were getting better.
They were swinging at fewer ofthose pitches that were on the
outside edges of the strike zoneand moving well, and they were
waiting for me to throw ballsthat didn't move as well in the
strike zone and I was startingto get hit harder, waiting for

(17:57):
me to throw balls that didn'tmove as well in the strike zone
and I was starting to get hitharder.
So I had to figure outsomething to do to try to, you
know, make it move like that inthe strike zone.
I tried to be like the normalguy and throw it overhand.
How'd that go?
That didn't go very well at all.
Yeah, nine years old right,there's actually a term for what
me throwing up here looks like.

(18:18):
It's called batting practice.
It's about 82 mile an hour.
It's perfectly straight.
It doesn't move.
Good job, Scout.
Yeah.
Well, no, Scout didn't do it,you just got to try it.
Yeah, they just tried it, itworked and whatever.
So, anyway, I remember playingcatch I'm trying to figure out

(18:41):
how to get this movement in thestrike zone Playing catch with a
guy I can't even remember who.
It was now one of my teammatesbefore the game in Nile Field,
and I grew up in Cincinnati andthe Reds when I was a kid I was
about 10, 11 years old had ajourneyman reliever by the name
of Ted Abernathy who threw fromdown here.
He was one of the rare guysthat I'd ever seen throw there.
He was with the Reds for a fewyears, middleman type of guy,

(19:05):
and for some reason he poppedinto my head while we're playing
catch.
Well, I'm throwing side run.
Oh yeah, Abernathy, he used tothrow down here.
I just dropped down and I throwone down there.
The ball hits the guy that I'mplaying catch with in the knee.
Oh, that's a good feeling thebottom just falls out, he can't
even get a glove on it.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Wow, it's called handcuffs.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I'm
looking at this going.
Hmm, we may have foundsomething here.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
So you just dropped your arm.
Saw a little bit lower.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
I dropped it to about down in here somewhere.
About one quarter instead ofhalf Side arm is half so it's
about a quarter.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
So it wasn't a slingy right.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
It was sinking and sliding, sinking and moving in
that direction.
Eventually I played with it andmoved it.
You've got to do other things,but it was just the idea that
all of a sudden Ted Abernathypops into my head.
The answer to my question ishow do I get the movement in the
strike zone has now beenanswered.
I knew after one throw playingcatch in the outfield.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
I got the answer to the problem.
That's the aha moment.
That's the aha moment.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
So now the second part of the equation is okay,
that's a really good fastball.
How in the heck am I going tothrow a breaking?

Speaker 2 (20:17):
ball from down there I was waiting for this.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
So it took me about two, maybe two and a half years
to figure out actually how tothrow a breaking ball from down
there.
That wasn't something that wentup in the strike zone.
There's one guy I can'tremember his name.
That was San Francisco.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, Tyler Rogers.
I think it's Rogers.
Yeah, Tyler Rogers.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
He actually throws a breaking ball that goes up.
Yeah, I call him Knuckles,because back then you wanted the
ball moving down so they'd hitthe top of the ball with the
bottom of the bat gets it goingto the ground, especially when
you're throwing sinkers.
So it took me a couple years tofigure out exactly how to do
that and that's where thatfortunately happened.
The rest of that AA a seasonand during, you know, my time in

(20:58):
triple a, before I ever got tothe big leagues.
By the time I got to the bigleagues in 70, well, 75, when I
came up to stay, I pretty muchhad figured out how to do, how
to mix the breaking ball and thesinker together, and I
basically pitched with those twopitches for 15 years.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
So let's go back to catch play.
What was catch play like foryou?
When did you start playingcatch, whether it's after the
season or before spring training, and then also like what was
the routine like?
Because I mean, they got gizmosand gazmos, they got trinkets,
they got everything going on.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Nowadays, I want to hear about how you used to do it
in the normal 150 years, as youwere talking about okay, so
you're talking about when, whenI'm playing in the minor leagues
or early in my major league, ormy whole major league?

Speaker 2 (21:41):
career.
Yeah, you go minor league,major league, however you want
to take it.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
My off-season throwing program.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, season ends.
Take me all the way to theseason.
And then how you threw inseason.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Okay, very simple, won't take long.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
I knew it wouldn't.
We've had this conversation andI want fans to hear it, because
we talk about pitch counts, wetalk about all these things and
talking to guys like you, it issuch a simplicity.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
It makes me happy Because I threw so much and I
was so skinny and not reallystrong, Very mobile.
Yeah, we didn't lift weightsback then.
We used them more forstretching than anything else
12-ounce cans, 12-ounce cans.
But my off-season conditioningprogram consisted of the last
day of the season.
I put all my equipment in myequipment bag.

(22:26):
I put the ball in the glove, Iput the glove in the bag, I
zipped the bag shut and I handedit to John Hallahan, our
equipment manager.
He put it away and he put itover the next year.
He would load it on the truck,he would take it down to spring
training.
He would bring it out the firstday of spring training.
He'd put it over.
He'd put it in my locker.
I'd sunstrip the top of it.
There he is, I'd take the gloveout, I'd take the ball, I'd

(22:48):
throw it in a couple times,feels good, feels good program.
My arm was as much as I threwduring the season needed the
off-season to rest, to heal, toget strong again.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
So when you picked it back up.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
When I first started throwing in spring training, it
was terrible because I hadn'ttouched the ball for five months
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
And how long was spring training then?

Speaker 3 (23:14):
Middle of February, about six weeks.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah, about the same.
And by the time, in six weeks,I could go from not having
thrown all winter long to beingready to close on opening day.
I had a routine that I would gothrough during spring training,
a way I would build up so thatI didn't need to be throwing all
winter long and I could let myarm rest and recover and then

(23:38):
rebuild it during those sixweeks to be ready for the season
to start.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
That's why everybody's different.
That's why I love that.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Because there's guys that can do that and do that
well, and I absolutely love that.
It's so funny.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Just zip it up and show something sweet to you.
See it again.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
Like I said, those first couple, I would get my
brains beat out.
The first couple of hours ofspring training I mean the
ball's not moving, it's got novelocity on it or anything else.
And Chuck had come over andsays yo, why don't you throw a
little bit during the winter,just so you can?
You know, don't get your brainsbeat out in spring training.
I said, Chuck, I want to get mybrains beat out in spring
training.
The more I get to throw duringspring training, the quicker I'm

(24:19):
going to get my arm strong andthen tired, because I have to
get it tired before opening dayso that the ball sinks will you
say that again?

Speaker 2 (24:24):
yes, I love that we do not talk about that today's
game.
Everything's about optimization.
You got to get to that pointwhere you know you find where
you can stay all year long.
So you hear that brownie ohyeah, I heard that my first
spring training.
He's like, yeah, I don't wantto feel great going into that
first game.
I'm like what?
Like no, if I feel too good,I'm moving too fast, I can't be

(24:46):
who I am.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
Well, you've got to be that guy if you have to make
the team.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, if you have to make the team.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
If you've got your position whether it's a setup
guy, whether it's a closer,whether it's a starter, whatever
it is then it changes to.
I have to be ready to pitch onopening day.
So, the first day of springtraining is not now the start
point, opening day is, whichmakes it easier because now

(25:19):
you've only got to worry aboutsix months instead of seven and
a half months that you have tobe competitive.
Yep, that's the great advantageof having established your
position on the club.
Amen is that you only have todo it for six months.
That first month and a half youdon't have to do it, you know,
you just find your way to getthrough it, to be where you want
to be on opening day.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
It's exhausting right teak when you're fighting for
that job.
That month and a half isexhausting.
It's like oh did I make theteam and then you're just on the
plane.
You're like I guess I made theteam.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
I don't know which is worse the physical exhaustion
of having to bear down on everypitch, every hitter that you
face, no matter if it's in asquad game, no matter if it's an
exhibition game, no matter whatit is.
You've got to bear down andyou've got to get that guy out.
And then the mental part of it.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
The mental part, yeah .

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Oh my gosh, I've got to do this, because if I don't
do it today and I do it tomorrowand then I don't do it again
the next day, that's not goingto be good enough to make the
team, or that's not good enoughto be in the starting rotation,
or whatever it is.
That is a tough five weeks.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
It's a tough five weeks.
You're exactly right.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Thank you for that.
But, teague, certainly when youwere going pitching at Marietta
College, you weren't thinkingin a few years, I want to be a
closer on a Major Leaguebaseball team, one of the best
closers in baseball.
How did that evolve?
Where you became the closer?

Speaker 3 (26:37):
for the Pirates?
Did that evolve where youbecame the closer?
Well, I didn't.
For the pirates I mean Iliterally.
You know I was.
I was started out in the minorleagues my very first year when
I signed in the middle of 69 69,okay, when I was playing with
bruce keeson in geneva, new york, and I was a starter because
I'd been a starter in collegeand they needed starters there
and so I was a starter that year.

(26:58):
The next year you've got tounderstand the minor league
system and how it works.
In the minor leagues, the bulkof the innings they want to be
pitched by the prospects, theguys that are going to be the
good players, the guys thatthey've paid the money to, the
guys that they envision as beingthe stars of the future.

(27:20):
So therefore those guys arestarters in the minor leagues,
the guys you know.
I was not viewed as that.
I was viewed as somebody thatjust didn't pitch well enough
last year that I get a chance toplay again this year.
So therefore, my second year in1970, I got put into the
bullpen, started as a setup guyand pitched well enough that by

(27:46):
mid-season or so in 1970, Ibecame the closer in Salem,
virginia, in high-class A ball.
I spent the rest of my minorleague career as a reliever and
pretty much as a closer all theway through, because when I got
to the next level then I waspitching well.
There I pitched well, I keptpitching well.

(28:08):
So there was never I kind ofearned the right to be the
closer on a minor league team.
So I earned that.
So that was where that was myposition in the minor leagues.
I was a closer, I wasn't really.
I don't know exactly when ithad to be either late double-A
or early triple-A before I wasever considered a prospect.

(28:28):
You know nobody ever consideredme to be the guy that was going
to be in the big leagues.
We called suspects, suspectyeah, I was a suspect for a long
number.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
I went from a prospect to a big leaguer, to a
suspect.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
You can go both ways.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
We had an all-suspect team in one of my teams I
played with.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
You ever look in the general manager's office at that
board?

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, the white board .
It's got everybody's name on iton all the different levels.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
You can tell by the different colors who are the
prospects and who are thesuspects?

Speaker 2 (28:59):
That's so true.
The prospects are high on theboard.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
The suspects are low on the board, usually their
name's spelled wrong Smallerfont Maybe an asterisk or two.
But that was kind of how Iswitched over to being a
reliever was just the fact thatI wasn't a prospect.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
I see.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
And therefore I became a reliever in my second
year of seven years in the minorleagues, which at the time I
hated because I was of the samementality that most people were
at that time.
Relief pitchers were guys thatweren't good enough to start and
I had always been a starter.
And I had been a starter theyear before and I'd pitched well

(29:35):
, but I was being made areliever.
I didn't understand the proball, you know prospect suspect
thing.
So all of a sudden now I don'tlike being a reliever, but I
gotta, I keep wanting to play,so I better do good at it.
So, and then at the end itturned out to be the best thing

(29:56):
that ever happened to me,because most guys, by the time
they get to the big leagues,they've pitched, they've started
the majority of their minorleagues.
They get called to the bigleagues and they get put in the
bullpen because we need an armin the bullpen, or we need this
guy or that guy, or we need this, and they have no idea what to

(30:16):
do.
They don't even know how to warmup as a reliever, because
they've always had 20 minutesand you start at this time and
you say this may fastballs andthis may curveballs, and then
you do this, and then you take abreather and take a drink of
water and you do this and you dothat, and then you sit down for
five minutes and then you startthe game.
Well, relievers don't do that.
You've got to adjust to wholedifferent programs and you don't

(30:38):
know when you're going in andyou don't know what the
situation is when you'restarting okay, it's going to be
the top of the lineup in thefirst inning and we've got nine
innings to go and the relieveryou don't know, until you walk
through that gate and walk outonto the field, what the
situation's going to be.
I I can't prepare for who thebatter is.
I can't prepare for what thesituation is going to be, what

(30:58):
scores.
It's all up in the air.
So I had six years of that inthe minor leagues, experience of
doing that, which actuallyturned into a huge advantage for
me when I came to the bigleagues, because I wasn't having
to transition at that pointagainst major league hitters to

(31:18):
think like a reliever,understand situations like a
reliever it was.
I had already done it that part.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
It became your home.
Yeah, I was more comfortablethere.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
They put me back to being the starter.
I would have been lost.
So you know they weren't goingto do that at 6'4 and 155 pounds
, because about July I wouldhave just melded into a puddle
one day.
But um, you know, it was amatter of I had that experience
and then the other guys werecoming in that I was competing
with didn't have it.

(31:49):
So that would actually turninto an advantage what was your?

Speaker 2 (31:52):
uh, real quick, before we move on from this, you
talked about the startersroutine a couple water, a couple
fastballs away.
What was your routine, the18-pitch routine you were
talking about with the catcher?
Did you start with him up andthen he got down and he threw
eight fastballs?

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yeah, I would start up.
This is one of my favorites.
This is not the first time I'vethrown the ball.
All day long I've playedcatcher.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Right, you played catcher earlier.
You're about to go in and closethe game.
I'm stretched.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
I'm pretty loose physically but I would throw
about four or five pitches,standing up almost three-quarter
, just to get everything loose.
Make sure you bend.
Effort level like hard or soft,depending on the situation.
If I needed to be ready quick,it was harder.
If I knew I had time, it wouldbe a little softer.

(32:41):
My whole idea of warming up inthe bullpen was just basically
to get my arm loose, get thefeel of my breaking ball.
I didn't care exactly where itwent, I just wanted to feel the
release.
Because what a lot of guysoverlook is that when you go
into the game, the gamesituation as far as the

(33:07):
atmosphere that you're going tobe throwing in is totally
different than the one thatyou're warming up in.
You know, if I'm warming upover at PMC Park, I'm warming up
with a wall right next to methat's blocking all the wind.
I'm throwing in a totallydifferent direction.
The sun's shining differently,everything is different.

(33:28):
So if I get myself fine-tunedunder those conditions and then
I go out to the mound and all ofa sudden there's a big hole in
the mound where this other guyhas been pitching and the wind's
blowing this way instead ofblowing this way and my breaking
ball is moving more than so.
I warmed my arm up in thebullpen.
I used the eight pitches.

(33:49):
When I got to the mound that Ihad before I had a pitch to the
first hitter to fine tune thecontrol.
So it was loosen the body,loosen the arm, walk into the
mound, fine tune the control ineight pitches, which took a
while to learn how to do.
But you know, because I wasbasically throwing three
fastballs, three sliders, acouple more fastballs, and it

(34:12):
was, you know, let's go.
So, um, that was what I wasdoing.
You know, those two differentsegments were two different
parts of my routine.
I never wanted to be fine-tunedin the bullpen.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
And it shows up.
How many times have you guys?
God, I felt terrible in thebullpen but all of a sudden my
stuff was really good when I gotin the game.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
I felt really good in the bullpen.
I was sort of right where.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
I wanted to the game.
I'm throwing it all over theplace.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Well, the condition changed.
The condition changed.
Most people don't talk aboutthe elements enough.
It's really good.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Favorite bullpen ever .
Favorite bullpen ever, and why?

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Besides the tradition you did, which you'll talk
about in a minute.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah, we might Probably my favorite bullpen was
Dodger Stadium.
It's the same as Not so muchbecause it was Dodger Stadium,
although that was a great placeto play.
But you were in this littletunnel-like thing with the

(35:18):
corrugated metal walls on twosides and a corrugated metal
wall in front of you, facing thefield, with a chain-link fence,
basically as the background,right behind the catcher.
It was the loudest noise,loudest Because you were in this
tunnel with this corrugatedmetal all around you Pow If you

(35:41):
got a catcher that had a goodcatcher's mitt and you make that
noise, boom.
You came out of there feelinglike you're throwing a million
miles an hour.
Now you weren't.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
It's all about that confidence.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
It feels good, but you also don't want to try to
throw fastballs by somebody.
You can't throw fastballs by.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
You learn that that's being honest with yourself, but
uh my favorite bullpen becauseof the fact that I mean the
mound was always.
I mean both mounds the fieldmound and the bullpen mound in
dodger stadium were play.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
They were absolutely immaculate.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
You put your foot down.
It stayed right there.
There weren't any holes in it.
Even late in the game, afterthree or four guys had warmed up
on it, there were no holes init.
And you had that tube aroundyou making everything sound like
it's like 110 mile an hour.
I felt like I was throwing likeGoose Gossage did.
I'm sure, and it was really funto sit in the bullpen and

(36:36):
listen to him warm up and itgets tighter too, bullpen and
listen to him warm up, and itgets tighter too.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Yeah, it gets narrower.
You have the two bullpens andit gets tighter.
So the guys are sitting therewatching like man Teek's on it
today.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
Boom.
It's unreal how fast.
Only the rookies.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
The rest of the guys knew they were doing the same
thing Like oh, shut up rookies.
Hey Teek, how fast do you thinkyou threw?

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Probably, um, probably in my prime, with a
little bit of breeze at my back,I probably I could probably
touch 90, okay, uh, it wasprobably my, my fastest in my
prime.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
You mentioned goose gossage, who came to the pirates
, I think in 77, right 77?
Um, what was it like I want toget to that too how you evolved
into that closers roleeventually.
But what was it like to be inthe bullpen with a guy like that
, because if you throw him outthere today, you wonder how fast
he'd be throwing with thenumbers that we're seeing now.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Well, yeah, I mean, we didn't really do a whole lot
of radar.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Yeah right.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
I'm guessing that I was throwing 90.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, he could have been throwing 97.
He wouldn't, yeah, yeah, I hecould have been throwing 97.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
He wouldn't yeah, I mean, but Goose, you know it was
a combination of he threw hard,he was big, he had this giant
fuzzy mustache thing yeah.
And it was just arms and legsand stuff all over the place.
There was nothing under control.
And then all of a sudden, boom,this ball would come flying out

(38:00):
.
And the year that he was withus, I don't know that I ever saw
in my entire 15-year majorleague career a reliever have a
better year than he had in 77.
I mean every pitch he had thistremendous fastball that
everybody talked about.
Nobody talked about his slider.
He had a slider that was justlate, hard broke, and both of

(38:25):
them all year long.
I mean he didn't hit a streakall year long where he didn't
have perfect command of it.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
That fastball was knee-high on the outside corner.
That's hard to do with a lot oflegs and arms.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
It was inside.
The slider was right there.
I mean, it was the mostdominant stuff that I ever saw.
His best day came in againstthe Dodgers.
I can't remember who waspitching.
That was bases loaded, nobodyout.
Goose comes in.
Nine pitches later the game'sover with and nobody's hit a

(38:57):
foul ball yet.
Nine pitches later.
Nine pitches later, ninepitches later he struck out
three guys on nine pitcheswithout a foul ball, with the
bases loaded and nobody out Wow.
And then he throwed hismustache Wow.
He was stomping off the moundand in between pitches.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, but he probably had a presence and people were
terrified of him a little bit.
Oh, he was, and in betweenpitches, yeah, but he probably
had a presence and people wereterrified of him a little bit.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Oh, he was.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
You should have been yeah, and if you got hit, if
you're hitting and you got hitby him, you knew it was on
purpose.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
If you didn't know him in the clubhouse and you
only knew him on the field,you'd be terrified of him too,
because there was nothingpleasant about Goose anytime he
walked out of that dugout ontothe field in the bullpen.
There was nothing pleasant atall about him.
He was just mad, he was upset,he was going to strangle

(39:50):
somebody and he was going tojust somebody was going to have
to pay hell for the fact that hewasn't feeling good today.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
I love my psychopaths out in the bullpen and you walk
in the bullpen.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
and you walk in the bullpen and you know, walk into
the clubhouse and he's just likeeverybody else.
He grabbed a beer and you knowwe were running around and
talking, but nobody else knewthat but us.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Chuck Tanner brought him in from the White Sox right.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Because he had managed him.
He had managed him in the WhiteSox, he and Terry Forrester and
over in a trade in the um thatwould have been the winner of 76
for uh.
Richie zisk, richie zisk wentto the white socks man.
What a team we ended up with.
Uh, and goose and terry wereboth here for just the one year.
77 goose league became a freeagent.

(40:33):
I think terry did too I think soterry was got hurt a little bit
more during that year, butgoose Goose became the free
agent, went to the Yankees andbecame the best reliever in
baseball.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
So that's a contrast going from no disrespect from
Goose Gossage to Kent DeColviein 78, right.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
I had to make it worse too.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
You know, I mean in terms of opposing hitters.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
I mean, that's a different style yeah, and I
think the Pirates were actuallyafraid of that.
Hmm, yeah, and.
I think the Pirates are actuallyafraid of that.
Hmm, you know, because theyobviously.
I mean I had a great year in 75, or 77.
Uh-huh, I mean, I was 10-1.
We had a good hitting team.
I would always come in down arunner or two.
We'd score a runner or two assoon as I'd come.

(41:17):
As soon as I'd, you know,they'd score the runs and we'd
take the lead.
I'm out.
Goose is in game's over.
I still have a hard timebelieving that I lost a game
that year.
Yeah, because I was 10-1.
Jeez, but I was in the.
You talk about being in therocking chair.
Yeah, I was in the rockingchair.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Take a Goose yeah here's Goose.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
But now we go to Goose leaves, we go to 78, you
would think, after being 10-1and everything, that I would be
the closer.
But the Pirates at that timehad gotten so enamored and so
into Goose, this hard throwerthat strikes a bunch of guys out
, that you don't have to worryabout errors, you don't have to

(41:52):
worry about anything else.
That's what they were lookingfor.
They wanted to replace Goosewith Goose 2.0.
And they actually made a tradeduring that winter.
In fact you didn't evenremember no, I didn't Is we made
a trade with Cleveland to getJim Bibby.
So the original plan in 78 wasthat Jim Bibby was going to be

(42:17):
the closer because Bibby's 6'6and throws hard and he's got
these giant hands and sweatslike crazy and he kind of has
the goose personality.
He's got all that and the onlyproblem was Jim wasn't cut out
to be a closer.
I can't explain what it is, butthere's something about closers

(42:38):
that are a differentpersonality and you can't define
it.
You can't define it, you can'tteach it.
It's just either there or it'snot there.
Jim did not have it, so he wasthe closer for the first month
of the season.
I actually took over around May1st as the closer in 78.
And then I saved 31 games fromthere out to the rest of the
season.

(43:01):
That was the year that we almostcaught the Phillies at the end
of the regular season, which wasone of the greatest pennant
chases I think I've ever been in.
It was never so much fun to be12 games behind in the middle of
August, as it was in 1970.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
I remember being a fan and reading something in the
Pittsburgh Press about ChuckTanner after you guys had lost.
I don't know what it was likegoing into the middle of August
like 11 games out or somethingand you just lost.
I think you got swept by thePhillies, who you're chasing in
the National.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
League East and it's just devastating and we're going
to the West Coast, which is theworst place in the world to go.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
And you know just reading the story in the paper,
tanner said something like thisisn't the end, this might just
be the beginning, and you'rethinking right what?

Speaker 2 (43:43):
that's a bold statement.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
It was all and the teams, the pirates won 23
consecutive home games from thatpoint on 23 straight home games
.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
The exact question chuck got was.
He says well, you know, becausewe just got swept by the
phillies and of course thephillies, everybody knew that
was the team you had to beat.
And the question was well, nowthat the Phillies, you know
you're this far behind thePhillies, this is you know,
you're starting to look forwardto next year and you're going to
start playing.
You know some of the youngerguys are doing whatever.

(44:12):
And that's when Chuck made thestatement and says you know,
don't be in too much of a hurry.
Sometimes when you think it isthe end, it might just be the
beginning.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
What did that do in the clubhouse?
Because you guys get the paper.
You see what he said.
But he's such a positive guy.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
You weren't surprised by it, were you?
We heard that all the time.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
But that had to mean something, right it actually in
reality, because you've got tobe who you are.
We were kind of like everybodyelse, we were kind of laughing
at him too.
He says what are you?

Speaker 1 (44:39):
kidding, are you nuts ?

Speaker 3 (44:41):
We're this far behind the Phillies.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Are you crazy?
They just won 100 games in arow.
What have?

Speaker 2 (44:46):
you been doing.
That's great, yeah, I mean, itwasn't like this, but it takes
that crazy belief right.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
It wasn't something like an inspirational thing that
drove them.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Yeah, let's go get them.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Let's go catch the Phillies.
No, it wasn't that at all.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
Yeah, but when your leader believes it has to mean
something, that's cool, it wasjust right around that time we
happened to get hot, went to theWest Coast and got hot, won
like 10 or 11 out of 12, whichyou normally don't do.
And the Phillies, who did notgo to the West Coast at the same
time we did, they went at adifferent time, so they were
playing on the East Coast andthey hit a slump After that.

(45:24):
It could have almost been withthem they might have won all
those games for months and said,okay, we got this taken care of
now and they went into a slumpand we were just I don't know
why we just started playing goodball and started winning games
on the West Coast, where youusually didn't win games.
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
And did not lose at home until toward the very end
of the year.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
That's got to be close to the record right.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Well, it was a pirate record for sure, and it came
down to the last four games ofthe season against the
Philadelphia Phillies.
So awesome Win a wild, twinightdoubleheader on a Friday night.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
I won both of those night.
Double header on a Friday night.
I won both of those, did youreally?

Speaker 1 (45:59):
I won both of those games, One was a walk-off throw
away First one fly ball intoright center field.
Gary Maddox Gary Maddox andBatry run together.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
They both stop Two of the best outfielders in the
National League.
They both stop.
The ball drops Hits on theester turf Bounces straight up
in the air.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Like a trampoline.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
Love Like a trampoline.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Love it.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Ed Ott was on first base.
He's going to third base.
They're trying to throw him outat third base.
He's out by 15 feet.
He shouldn't be running tothird base.
We're down a couple runs Tiegame.
We're tied.
He's already in scoringposition.
He shouldn't be going to thirdbase Ball hits him in the
shoulder, bounces him in thedugout.

(46:41):
We win the game.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
He gets home Game two Tied again Warren Brewster on
the mound, was it Brewster?

Speaker 1 (46:49):
I was trying to remember Dave Parker at third.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
And he balks in the winning.
No that's the worst.
Now we've won a doubleheader.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
We've got to win four in a row.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Are we at home?
Yes, oh, it's wild.
The place is going crazy.
It's the first play-doh moment.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
You have to win four in a row just to force a tie.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
I think the Pirates had to play one more game on
Monday and then we had to playon Monday against the Reds
because we had an extra game wehad to play.
So now we do this on.
You're going oh Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Momentum baby, something's happening right, it
carries on.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
We start Saturday, we come in Saturday.
Now we have a single gameSaturday.
Single game Sunday.
We get them out in the top ofthe first Bottom of the first.
Stargell hits a grand slam withnobody out.
We got four runs on the board.
They haven't gotten out.
We're going.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Something special is going on.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
And then, unfortunately, randy Lurch,
their pitcher, hit two home runsoff us.
We ended up losing that game onSaturday.
We beat them again on Sunday,so we didn't have to go to
Cincinnati and play on Monday.
But yeah, that whole stretch ofall of that Unforgettable.
It's as exciting as baseballcould be when you didn't end up
winning it.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yeah, because you're chasing something.
That's crazy, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
And you're doing it as a group.
It was a different person everynight.
Yeah, willie hit a lot of homeruns and did a lot of things, or
Dave did a lot of things, butit wasn't.
Everybody was kicking in andcontributing and doing whatever
they were doing.
That was a fun fun thing,unreal.
And then that sets up 1979.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Did you think, going into 79, that it was because of
what happened in 78, that, okay,we got the team that can
overtake the Phillies in 79?

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Well, I think what we felt was we knew we were good
enough At 78, like most years,we had gone off to a slow start.
I've got a theory on that.
I'd love to hear it, because wealways got off to slow starts.
We had a big team, big players.

(48:55):
I mean Candelaria's 6'7",bibby's 6'6", parker's 6'5", and
these are big human beings, allright, where most teams their
starting lineup is 6'2", 185,190 pounds.
Well, in cold weather, bigbodies don't loosen up and don't

(49:15):
stay loose in cold weather.
So the Rabbits were running allaround and they were doing all
that stuff and we weren't thepower guys, weren't doing it.
But once it warms up and thebig bodies start getting loose,
you guys were a diesel team.
Yeah, the big bodies just keepon going.
It doesn't matter when you getto August and it gets hot, these

(49:37):
big guys can just plow throughit, these rabbits they're
hitting the wall.
They're hitting the wall.
So we always got off to a slowstart.
So going into 79, the thoughtwas let's just don't get behind
the Phillies so far.
We have to chase them down fromso far and we'll be fine.
Now it ended up in 79.

(49:58):
We had to beat the Exposbecause the Phillies had some
injuries.
But the Phillies were our mainconcern in 79.
So the whole focus from 78carried into 79 was let's don't
get behind them like we did.
I mean we talked about it allspring, get off, get off, get
off good start, get off, goodstart.
Of course we still had the bigbodies, we still didn't play

(50:22):
well in the cold weather and westill got behind in 79 also.
But came charging, but the planwas in place.
We didn't have the horses toexecute the right.
You know there was a plan.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
The thoroughbreds weren't ready.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
Yeah, it was a plan that was made for somebody else,
not for us.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Although I want to get your opinion on what I
thought, looking at it from afan's perspective, that the two
moves that were ingenious, thatI thought kind of put them over
the top, needing a sure-handedshortstop.
They went and got Tim Foleyearly from the Mets.
Frank Tavares was a goodoffensive shortstop but was
erratic, right, Right.
And then trading for BillMadlock was kind of the

(50:59):
finishing touch.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
And then trading for Bill Madlock was kind of the
finishing touch.
Yeah, those two guys.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
First of all, the Foley trade.
Frankie was a good shortstop.
Did this happen before season?

Speaker 3 (51:08):
All this takes place in season.
We leave spring training withFrank Tavares as our shortstop,
phil Garner is playing thirdbase, okay Okay.
But Frankie was a really rangy,good shortstop, good arm, makes
spectacular plays, but had atendency to just relax on the

(51:33):
routine plays and did not makethe routine.
He would make errors on theroutine plays and then make a
spectacular play.
We needed somebody that madethe routine play all the time
and when they made the tradewith the Mets, sent Tavares to
the Mets and we got Foley.
Foley's a veteran guy.
He's definitely not nearly asflashy as Tavares.

(51:56):
He doesn't make the outstandingplays that Tavares makes, but
he catches everything.
He's solid with everything thathe does.
He doesn't make the outstandingplays that Tavares makes, but
he catches everything.
He's solid with everything thathe does.
He doesn't hit as well asTavares, but you know, frankie
was an okay hitter.
He wasn't a great hitter but hewas an okay hitter and Timmy
was probably about the same, butTimmy fit into our lineup

(52:17):
better than Frankie did.
Frankie was kind of a leadofftype guy and by that time we had
Omar Marino playing centerfield who could steal.
I think he stole 70-some basesthat year and Timmy was the
perfect guy to hit second behindhim, because Timmy would just
take pitch after pitch afterpitch.
He'd be in the hole 0-2, 1-2all the time and not care taking

(52:41):
pitches, giving Omar a chanceto get a good jump and steal a
base.
Plus.
He also and this is one of thethings nobody talked about this
enough but he was also a goodbunter.
If somebody else was as apitcher, got on and Omar did
something or whatever and he hadto bun him over, he was a good
bunter.

(53:01):
And he also was good at usingthe bunt using a fake bunt to
protect Omar.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
It's miserable as a catcher.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Wait until you hear how miserable he was.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Because it's right in your eye, if you follow it back
, you can't see, like, if you'reon playing with the ball with
that barrel and you go all theway back.
You can't see If you're onplane with the ball with that
barrel and you go all the wayback.
You have to stay back, you haveto wait and wait, and wait and
it's like, oh no, you justdescribed him fully.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
He would square around.
He has no intention of bunting.
He's waiting for Omar to get ajump.
He puts the bat out in front ofhim, flat across, no angles,
straight across, and when theball comes he pulls the bat back
, not where the ball is at.
The ball might be down herewhere the eye level of the

(53:52):
catcher is going to be.
He knows where the eye level ofthe catcher is going to be, so
that the bat is coming back atthe catcher and his eyes.
Okay, we're using our eyeballs.
The catcher is going to be sothat the bat is coming back?
How great is that At thecatcher?

Speaker 2 (54:01):
and his eyes.
Okay, we're using our eyeballs,we're looking here, so the
barrel's here.
Ball may be here, I'm goinghere, but I'm coming back.
All I see is a bat.
Wow.
So you pull back, naturally,right.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Well, you pull back and you can't be aggressive and
go forward and attack the ballto get into your throwing motion
.
It's almost like you'rethrowing it Because he's holding
you back with the bat man.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
And you have to worry about catching it first.
That's our number one job.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
And you've got Omar Marino running yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
That's a bad combination for a catcher.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Especially on a fastball.
If it's a fastball count, he'sprobably not going to run Right
it.
It's the best time to do itbecause he's like, oh, I'm going
to see it.
It goes all the way back.
But then they start rollinginto you.
It changes everything.
It's such an incredible thingIf you have a guy that's that
comfortable man, you could justrun and run and run that took

(54:56):
him in the number two hole frombeing.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
you know he'd hit 260 or whatever he'd hit.
It made him his value the sameas a 320 hitter because he did
so much more to allow Omar to dowhat he did.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
He's getting free 90s for him.
He made Omar better.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
He made him better and he made us better because as
soon as he gets done, you'vegot Parker Stargell, bill
Robinson Medlock coming up.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
I mean, think about that.
Good luck with that.
You've got a guy that can run,so he doesn't waste himself by
either bunting or whatever.
Now he's on second base RightTwo strike nubber.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
Nubber to second base .

Speaker 2 (55:28):
He runs to third base and it's like, oh no.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Look at these giants coming up.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Yeah, and you're worried and there's one out.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
That's incredible.
So that combination was yeah.
So that that trade, yeah,changed us there defensively and
offensively, we get oh gosh, Ican't remember who was just
before, after the, after the umall-star break I think it was
just after the all-star break wemake a trade with san francisco
to get bill madlock.
Our initial setup was Garner wasplaying third, rennie Stennett

(56:06):
was playing second.
That was our original setup.
And number six yeah, number six.
Well, rennie had broken hisankle a few years before and he
didn't have the range at secondbase.
He was still a pretty goodhitter, but he didn't have the
range at second base that he hadbefore.
He was a good fielder too.
So what happened?
When Medlock comes in, thatallows us to take Garner, who is

(56:30):
a much better second basemanthan he is a third baseman, put
him at second base, putStennett's bat on the bench
where his limited defensiverange doesn't affect us, and
puts, you know, madlock at thirdbase, who's got a batting title
, is going to have may have hadtwo at the time and was going to

(56:52):
win another one with us andchanges that dynamic of the arm.
I remember hearing I was not inthe meeting, but the uh, the
first meeting when bill cameover, bill had a reputation of
being a little little test, heuh he had been with the cubs.
He had been with the giants onboth teams.
You know he batted third.

(57:12):
He was supposed to be the guyand I'm not sure he was real
comfortable with his personalitydidn't match up with being the
guy.
So he comes over to us and hisfirst meeting with Tanner
they're sitting there talking.
He says, bill, here's what Iwant you to do.

(57:33):
I want you number one becausehe was the most important player
on both of those teams.
They never let him run.
He could run pretty good, butthey never let him run.
He was the most importantplayer on both those teams.
They never let him run.
He could run pretty good, butthey never let him run.
So because, bill, I want you tosteal whenever you want to.
You've got the green light.
Run whenever you want to, andof course, matlock's eyes light
up, because nobody's ever lethim run before and he's always

(57:54):
wanted to run.
He says play third base everyday and you're going to bat
sixth.
And all of a sudden, theexcitement about.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Shoulders shrug Whoa, whoa, whoa.
The excitement of being able torun kind of went downhill but
I'm a third hitter.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
He says well, we have Foley batting second, Dave's
batting third, You're probablynot going to hit in front of him
.
Willie's hitting fourth.
're probably not going to hitin front of him.
Willie's hitting fourth, You'renot going to hit in front of
him.
We got this platoon hittingfifth.
So we're always going to havethe advantage, with Bill
Robinson and John Milner, of aright-hander or left-hander

(58:32):
hitting fifth.
So you're going to hit sixth.
And you know, he kind of says Ithink it was a reverse.
I think he told him he wasgoing to hit sixth first and
then told him.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Oh and, by the way, you can run when you want.
Yeah, yeah, but so.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Better psychology there.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
But he buys into it.
Okay, he's hitting.
Here's a guy with two battingtitles, hitting sixth in our
lineup.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
He's just another third hitter.
I mean, if you think about it,the way the lineup's played, but
I mean yo.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
So now he fills in, Our offense gets so much deeper,
Our offense gets so much betterbecause Foley can move Omar
around.
Omar can run more because he'sgot more chances.
He doesn't have to force a run,he can wait until he gets to
the jump Everything you know.
And Medlock hitting sixth.
Otten and Kosha are platooncatchers, One left-handed, one

(59:27):
right-handed.
Because Medlock's running, theygot a lot more fastballs.
They both had their bestoffensive years that year
because they were both deadfastball hitters.
Neither one of them were verygood breaking ball hitters, but
because Medlock was always onbase, because he's that good a
hitter and he's going to run.
They're getting more fastballs,but it's hot, it's Nekosha, he's

(59:50):
a rookie.
We'll throw them the fastballsand see about throwing Medlock
out.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
So we got so much better offensively and
defensively with that one move,you became a different type of
threat.
You weren't just big boppers ohyeah, right, you became a
different threat.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
We became a defensive .
We could beat you with defense.
We could beat you with longballs.
We could beat you with running.
Our pitching staff wasunderrated, especially our
starters.
Everybody knew we had a decentbullpen, but our starters were
underrated.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
So yeah, we put all the pieces together.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
All of a sudden everything was right there and
Willie that year was the onlyone that really got hurt.
He only played, I think think110 games that year.
He's 38 years old and he's gotbad knees, but all these other
guys could move around.
We had this lineup that waskiller that we sent out there
every day.
Basically, when we looked at it, as soon as the opposing

(01:00:58):
starting pitcher went out of thegame, the game was over.
As soon as our hit startingpitcher went out of the game,
game was over.
As soon as our hitters got alook at their bullpen, which
typically number one if we werewinning, you weren't seeing
their best guys.
Number two even if you wereseeing their best guys, our guys
didn't care, they were stillbanging.
So I mean we had all theelements, the whole thing, put

(01:01:20):
together.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Well, on another episode you'll be able to listen
to Teague talk about the 79World Series itself, of course,
what it's like to be on themound for Game 7.
You can also hear aboutTeague's broadcasting career and
some of his favorite managersand teammates on another episode
of Hold my Cutter.