Unearthed: Forgotten Baseball Heroes and Their Unmarked Graves

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Unearthed: Forgotten Baseball Heroes and Their Unmarked Graves

When Brendan Schuster discovered that Honus Wagner was buried just 15 minutes from his home, he never imagined this curiosity would evolve into a profound mission to honor forgotten baseball heroes. In this deeply moving episode, we journey with Brendan through Pittsburgh's cemeteries as he uncovers the unmarked graves of Negro League players who shaped America's pastime yet were denied proper recognition even in death.

Brendan takes us back to 2006 when a chance encounter with Buck O'Neil—the charismatic Negro League legend—transformed his understanding of baseball history. After meeting Vince Chiarmella during the pandemic and discovering their shared passion for baseball burial sites, the two launched the Josh Gibson Unmarked Grave Project, dedicated to identifying and properly marking the final resting places of Negro League players.

The stories Brendan shares are equal parts detective work and historical preservation. From finding Ernest "Pud" Gooden's burial site to connecting with the descendants of Willis Moody, each marker placed represents not just a name etched in stone but a legacy restored. Most touching is how this project has inspired the next generation—seventh-graders at Seneca Valley raised money selling lollipops to fund a grave marker, creating a connection to history they'll carry throughout their lives.

While the project has successfully marked 11 players' graves in Allegheny County, with 10 more identified, Brendan reveals the staggering truth that an estimated 3,000 Negro League players lie in unmarked graves across the country. His mission continues to grow, connecting communities to their forgotten heroes one headstone at a time.

Discover how you can support this remarkable initiative by visiting jgfmemorialmarkers.org and help ensure that these extraordinary athletes—who played three games a day with subpar equipment while sleeping on suitcases—finally receive the recognition they deserve.

Josh Gibson Foundations

(Unmarked Grave)

http://www.jgfmemorialmarkers.org

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!!!

www.holdmycutter.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:07):
well, we welcome you to another episode of hold my
cutter here at burn by rockypatel, just in a short walk from
pnc park, and we're pleased tobe joined by brendan schuster.
And let's find out why brendanschuster decided on this as our
cigar special, our featuredcigar.
What is it about this cigar?

Speaker 3 (00:28):
It's a Deadwood brand and you'll understand that a
lot more as this podcast goesalong.
He chased his ghost.
Uh-huh, yeah, that's what hedoes.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Is that true, Brendan ?
You chase ghosts.

Speaker 4 (00:42):
Yeah, I see dead people.
We'll save that.
Let's get to the point.
That's what my wife always says.
She says why don't you just sayyou see dead people?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
What is that?
Let's get right to it, we'llfind out.
What do you do?

Speaker 4 (00:56):
Thanks for having me.
We're talking about a fullcircle moment right now.
I mean, really, I've got 20years to cover in like 45
minutes.
So we'll get to the point, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
No, you do not rush Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
So, first and foremost, I got.
I got a couple of things foryou guys.
Come on, he comes bearing giftsthis year is on behalf of the
Josh Gibson foundation, so he'sgoing to hang it up somewhere.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
We'll do that.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
We'll get a close-up of that.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Wow so sick.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
I brought you each a signed book from Vince, and I
Never heard of them either.
This is the second.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
This is the second.
Your first one that waspublished is a follow-up to
Never Heard of Him.
Yes, follow-up to Never Heardof Him.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
Yes, correct.
So Vince wrote Never Heard ofHim.
Okay, vince and I wrote NeverHeard of them.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Vincent Chiaramella is your partner here, your
co-author friend.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
And this is about the ghost.
So this is about just 12baseball players you really
don't hear about In the book.
There are three guys that arepart of the Unmarked Grave
project that we did write aboutIn the book.
There are three guys that arepart of the Unmarked Grave
project that we did write aboutDave Allen, who played for the
Pittsburgh Keystones in 1887,willis Moody and Emmett Bowman.

(02:15):
So there's three just guys thatwe, or two we have markers for
one we're working on, but theother nine are just random
baseball players that most guyshave not heard of so, so that
that kind of brings it thank you, by the way.
Yeah, yeah, thank you very muchuh, never heard of them either.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
12 more tales from pittsburgh's baseball past.
And brendan schuster is ourguest.
He and vince chirabellaco-authored that book that's the
follow-up to Never Heard of Him.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
And again, you somehow found this niche
opportunity to go and findgraves, unmarked graves yes, so
it all started when I read abook called Bury my Heart at
Cooperstown in 2006.

(03:06):
It was short stories of howbaseball players died and where
they're buried.
So I got this interest and Ithought, wow, Pittsburgh,
they're rich in baseball history, they have the Pirates, the
Grays, the Crawfords.
There's got to be some playersburied in the area.
So I got on Google, did asearch real quick and my first

(03:27):
find was Hannes Wagner, who was15 minutes from my house.
I said, whoa, this is cool, 15minutes from where you grew up
in Carnegie.
No, I was in Dorman at the time.
So, he's in Jefferson MemorialCemetery.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Oh, where he's buried .
I'm sorry, was it unmarked?

Speaker 4 (03:44):
No, he's in a marked grave.
I went first and I found wherehe's buried.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Can I interrupt you as we go along here?
I've kicked myself because Iwant to start doing this myself.
I'm fascinated by this as well.
I haven't even been to his homesite and the library and the
little mini museum to his grave.
I haven't even been to his homesite and the library and the
kind of little mini museum inhis honor.
What's that grave like?
Is it a very simple grave?
Is it small?
Is it?

Speaker 4 (04:11):
big, Very simple.
It is Right alongside of theroad in the cemetery flat marker
.
You could easily just pass itby.
But if you're looking for it,you will find a bobblehead or a
hat or a ball.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Somebody will stop by in his honor A baseball
memorabilia will be at his grave.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
He's definitely one of the best players of all time.

Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yeah, yeah.
I know, yeah, yeah, you coulddrive right past him and not
notice that he was arguably thegreatest shortstop of all time.
Wow, right, and JeffersonMemorial.
So then I felt like I was ontosomething.
Yeah, I mean, this is cool, whoelse is around?
Yep.
So then a family friend and I,I said Joe, I said Josh Gibson

(04:54):
is in Allegheny Cemetery, let'sgo find him.
And we just felt like twolittle kids, you know, like we
were trespassing or we werethought does anybody?

Speaker 3 (05:02):
else know that he's here.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Like this is a treasure, you know.
So went um before a familyevent.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
You went during the day, right, yes, yeah okay, went
during the day and, uh, sureenough, we pull up, you know, we
see a sign that says joshgibson, with an arrow pointing
up the hill, and uh, you know,the excitement is just building
up.
Oh, this is cool.
So, sure enough, we walk up thehill and there's the grave of
Josh Gibson, the greatest powerhitter of all time, who never

(05:35):
made it into the major leagues,and same with his grave as
Hannes Wagner's, there'sbaseballs and bats and gloves
and anything else you can nameAgain, a modest gravestone for
Josh Gibb, although there is amarker that says his grave site
is up this way Did you feel likean energy or something.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
There had to be an excitement, but was there a
little bit more to it?

Speaker 4 (05:57):
Yeah, so in the book I write about, you know, in the
movie Shawshank Redemption, howMorgan Freeman walks up at the
end of the movie to this longstone wall and he hears his
friend's voice in the background.
Andy, if you come this far, ifyou're willing to go a little
bit further.
And you hear a bird in thebackground.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
So you look around.
So that's how I felt.
That was the exact feeling.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
If I find myself with somebody looking at me.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
Who else is looking?
Who else knows about this?
Am I allowed to be here?
Yeah, you know, I've neverreally been to a cemetery before
.
What are the rules, you know?
So there's a lot of questions.
A lot of questions started asfar as okay.
Why Pittsburgh, you know?
Why are they buried here?
Why?
Why Pittsburgh?
Why are they buried here?
Why this cemetery?

(06:47):
Who else is around?
Who was here when he was buried?
You think, for example, it wasBabe Ruth here who was at the
ceremony.
So the question started.
So that's kind of how thingsstarted for me in 2006.
I had this feel to find thegraves of baseball players.

(07:10):
So fast forward a little bit toCOVID.
We're going to go to COVID.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Well, that's not a little bit.
That's fast forward a long.
That's what 14 years, 14 years.
We'll get 14 years.
So over 14 years, were youtrying to find grave sites of
players?

Speaker 4 (07:27):
During that time the interest was always there, but
it really didn't take off untilCOVID Okay, Because I was
working, my wife was at homeraising kids.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
So it was just a time .
It was just a time but it wasalways there.

Speaker 4 (07:42):
I always had the interest reading books and just
kind of wanting to do it.
So 2020, the COVID happened.
We made an annual trip to.
We would always go to OceanCity, maryland.
That trip didn't happen becauseof riots and COVID, but we
still wanted to get out of town.
So we went to the SmokyMountains.

(08:03):
I said, hey, while we're downhere by the way while we're down
here, let's go see the grave ofShoeless Joe Jackson in
Greenville, South Carolina.
So it was like our first familytrip we did together on a
baseball journey.
So we saw some things forShoeless Joe in Greenville.
Did you see his little house?
It was during the move, so theywere moving it only like 100

(08:26):
yards.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
It was right across from the ballpark wasn't it.
Is that the one you saw?
Yep yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
Saw the beginning of the move, didn't go in it
because it was underconstruction.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Did you talk to the woman, the curator there, her
story?
Just curious, no All right.
We'll talk about that Ourpost-podcast Wild story about
the woman who ended up gettinginvolved.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Well, share it now.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
I want to know Well.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
I don't want to stop the momentum here, I don't want
to stop the momentum.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
We'll get back to it, we'll get back to it.

Speaker 3 (08:57):
I'm on the edge of my seat now.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
I have another smoke.
It was the first familybaseball adventure we went on.
We came back and said, okay,let's find more.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Are you forcing your family into this?
Are they baseball fans?
I wouldn't say.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
I'm forcing them.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
I met your wife.
She seems proud.
You're encouraging.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
My wife Erica is very encouraging of what I do for
sure.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Think about it, Brownie.
He finds unmarked graves.
Some of these families don'tknow.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, but I know but this is prior to this mission
that he's on.
He has his kids and his wife goto Joe Jackson's place.
We're going to Greenville Didyou find his shoes by chance.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
Shoes were there, balls were there?
The original shoes?
I don't think were there.
I would have had them.
I would have taken them,fronzed them up, yeah, so anyway
.
Then we were like, okay, whoelse is around?
Oh, cy Young is less than twohours away in Paoli, ohio.
Let's go see his grave.
Talking about being in theheart of Amish country, you know

(10:04):
here's, you got an award namedafter the greatest pitcher of
all time and he's in the heartof Amish country.
If you did not know, you wouldjust drive right by the church.
Really, really, and it's always, the kids always say, oh,
that's the trip we lost tointernet.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
So again, you saw the grave site and you wouldn't
know it otherwise.
It's not a big sign.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
Correct Small church.
The grave is bigger.
It's not a flat marker for him,but it does say Young on the
front and Denton Cy Young on thefront.
So then again hats balls allaround him.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
So he sticks out once when you're in the cemetery.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
But if you're not, no clue.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
But he was an Amish right.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Right, just when you're in the cemetery, but if
you're not, yeah, no clue.
But but he was an amish, right,right, right, just buried in
amish, but it was like aone-stop town.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Okay, yeah, you know, yeah, so, okay, this is cool,
we're onto something.
And then we went and saw uhlefty grove, where he grew up in
lunacoming, maryland, which islike an hour and a half away
near deep creek.
So we were making these familytrips, weekend trips, we would
go find a hotel spend the night.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Based around this too , by the way.
Based around baseball gravesright, yes, and how would you
end up picking these spots?

Speaker 4 (11:13):
though I think I just did a Google search to see
who's around the area.
Okay, and that's where we found.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
What do you type in Google-wise?

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Baseball burial sites around the Pittsburgh area
Pretty much, yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
No FBI calling you or anything.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
I'm looking that up right now as we speak.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
Go ahead, so things just start popping up and then
so you get to a point, you knowit was 2020.
We're in that year and I see anad on Facebook for this book
called Grates in the GraveyardOver 100 baseball over 100

(11:57):
graves of baseball playersburied in Allegheny County.
You know from managers,executives, basically
personalities, over 100 players.
I said personalities, over 100.
I said stop, over 100.
I only found like three.
Wait a second.
You mean to tell me thatthere's over 100 in Allegheny

(12:17):
County?
I quickly ordered the book andI looked up the guy's name Vince
Tormella.
Wait a second.
We have some mutual friends.
Huh, wait a second.
He's in Bethel Park, like I am.
So I messaged a friend.
I said do you know this guy?
Calm off.
And she said he's my neighbor.
What I said, I'm going tomessage him.

(12:40):
And it turns out he lives aboutan hour away from me and we had
some back and forth.
I said it's basically like themovie Step Brothers where we
said did we just become?

Speaker 3 (12:49):
best friends.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
I like to do this stuff too, I like to do this
stuff too, this is awesome.
Come on this is cool, but over100.
So I got the book and I'm likewhoa, like this is super cool.
I've got to find these guys andhe has a checklist on the back
of the book.
You go to the certain cemeteryBob Prince is close by.
There are certain guys that youknow and heard of.

(13:10):
Other guys one cup of coffeeplayers, we call them, played
one game in 1904.
You just never heard of them.
But then when you visit thegrave.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
when you visit the grave, You're at 23,000,.

Speaker 4 (13:24):
I should say yeah, when you visit the grave, you
feel like you got to know him.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
You're there, you're standing next to him and it's
something about him, what goesinto the research, like up to
that?
Because you say you got to knowhim, I'm sure you're learning
all about him.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
Yeah so.
Vince Spearhead when he wrotethat book, grace in the
Graveyard.
The research is very intense.
You're really going line byline with players.
You see a team picture.
You say, okay, I'm going toidentify all these players, see

(14:03):
where they're buried, see who'sin Pittsburgh, and I'm going to
find where they're buried.
And then you start once when Isee the grave that's when I'm
doing a little more researchfind out who exactly was this
person.
Who did they play for, what didthey do?
What's their connection toPittsburgh?
And there's a lot of guys thatare connected to each other in
Pittsburgh.
They all kind of played witheach other, know each other

(14:24):
somehow.
So it's pretty cool to connectthe dots.
So Vince and I ended up hookingup One time we said he said,
hey, if you want to go on a,I'll take you around.
I'll show you some graves.
Of course, yeah, man, I want togo.
So he took me to CalvaryCemetery.
It was the first time we wentout and found these markers of

(14:45):
the baseball players.
And as we're looking around,he's telling me okay, well,
so-and-so is buried right here.
There's nothing there.
Well, yeah, that's where he'sburied.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
What do you mean?
There's nothing there.
There's nothing there Well howdo you know where it is?

Speaker 4 (15:06):
He did the research to find out.
Okay, so-and-so.
Is in an unmarked grave in thislocation.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
And is it a roundabout or is it pretty
precise?

Speaker 4 (15:19):
Pretty close.
He's been near spot on.
But then once we confirm withthe cemetery and a marker goes
to be put in, they know theexact spot.
But if he takes a picture fromhere to there it's in the
picture.
You know of where the playersmarked.
Yeah.
So I mean pretty darn close.

(15:40):
So I just I felt at that timehe said, yeah, so-and-so played
for this team, but they don'thave a marker.
And you're walking right overthem.
Nobody has come to see themarker, nobody knows that the
player is there, any cemeterygoers, family members, friends?

(16:00):
They have nothing to see.
They probably don't even know.
They probably don't.
Yes, right, exactly.
So a lot of questions, yeah,and I felt like is this even
legal?
Is this allowed to be done?
How did this happen?
Why isn't there a marker?
Now, who do I contact?

(16:20):
What do we do to get them amarker?
You know, this was kind of outof my territory at the time.
So that's how the interest,that's how I got to where I am
today with the Josh GibsonUnmarked Grave Project and it
all kind of.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
When did that exactly start?

Speaker 4 (16:41):
So when it all started.
Sometimes the pieces just fallinto place where they're
supposed to.
So it all started when Sean,the great-grandson of Josh
Gibson, josh's wife Helen,sean's great-grandmother, was in
an unmarked grave for 92 yearsin Allegheny Cemetery.

(17:05):
She's buried close to Josh downthe hill, but they got a marker
for her.
This wasn't through the JoshGibson Unmarked Grave Project,
but they got a marker for her inAugust of 2022.
The Josh Gibson Foundation didNot necessarily.

(17:26):
I'm not sure who found her andgot the money for her.
Somebody did so.
They put a marker in for herand so they got them.
They put a marker in for herand you drive on the road
through Allegheny County,allegheny Cemetery, on the way
to see Josh.
Helen is right on the road andif you didn't know again you

(17:49):
would drive right by her and itsays you know the wife of Josh
Gibson, helen Gibson, the wifeof Josh Gibson.
She died the day after she gavebirth to their twins.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Ah, Wow, josh.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
Jr and Helen.
So she died in 1930.
What year did he die?
1947.
January of 1947.
His birthday is coming up inthree days, December 21st.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
By the way, before I forget, I googled baseball
burial sites around PittsburghSt John's Lutheran Cemetery,
uniondale Cemetery, alleghenyCemetery, voetley Cemetery, the
Homewood Cemetery, southsideCemetery, Greenwood Cemetery and
PNC Park.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
PNC Park.
That would explain a lot.
That would explain a lot.
That would explain a lot.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
So anyway, but these other grave sites it's familiar
to you that they indeed have?

Speaker 4 (18:47):
Yep, okay, so the who's buried at PNC?

Speaker 3 (18:52):
Well, Jimmy Hoffa Stay tuned, stay tuned yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:55):
That I'm not aware of , but I'm sure somebody is Stay
tuned.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
That I'm not aware of , but I'm sure somebody is.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
Yeah, somebody's under there.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
So where was I Back?
To his widow.
She's buried there.
He died in 47.
47.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
And so they got a marker for her thought to
himself okay, are there anyother Negro League baseball
players with unmarked graves inthe Pittsburgh area?
So that's when he, sean andVince knew each other from prior

(19:30):
conversations with trying tofind graves and certain things
along that nature.
So Sean reached out to Vinceand said, hey, are you aware of
any other any Negro Leaguebaseball players buried in the
Pittsburgh area?
So he said yeah, I am, I have alist started.

(19:51):
He said, okay, we're going todo a Josh Gibson on Mark Grave
project, which I then jumped onboard in March of 2023.
So there was four or five of uson the committee that got a
list of events, provided us thelist of the players where

(20:13):
they're buried, and we were justconquering divide and we was
just conquering, dividing,conquering.
So I took four or five players,so-and-so, took a couple players
and it was then our job toreach out to the cemetery to
confirm that the player's there,to get the okay to put in a
marker.
We introduced ourselves and whowe were working with.

(20:35):
So that's how things started.
But everything we have to raisemoney for these markers that
you know cost anywhere, but youknow roughly $900.
It's like $600 for the marker,$300 for the footer if the
cemetery doesn't spot the footerso we have to raise money for
the markers so it doesn't happenovernight and then so the first

(21:00):
marker we had, the firstbaseball player marker we had
put in, was for a guy namedErnest Pudd Gooden.
In July of 2023.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
Pudd, pudd.

Speaker 4 (21:10):
Gooden, yeah, Played for whom?
He played for the secondPittsburgh Keystones.
There was two PittsburghKeystones, the 1887 team.
That only lasted two weeks andthen there's a second Pittsburgh
Keystones team that played in1921 and 1922.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Well, you don't hear much about that team do you,
they must not have been verygood.
I guess they were dwarfed bythe craze.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
It just didn't turn out the way they wanted all
color team, so he was the firstmarker put in, and then things
just kind of steamrolled fromthere.
So that's where we're at.
From July of 2023 to now, wehave 11 players marked, do you?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
have a goal.
I guess it's endless.
There is no limit Right.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
So we know of 21 players that don't have a marker
.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Is this pre-11 that you already have?

Speaker 4 (22:16):
Was that before the 11?
There was a total of 21.
Okay 11 marked now, so 10 moreto go All in.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
Allegheny County.
Yes, that's crazy.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
All in Allegheny.

Speaker 3 (22:29):
County.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
So I'm saying beyond that who knows where you go,
right, right, so there's otherplayers.

Speaker 4 (22:37):
One of two things.
There's other players that,according to their death
certificate, it says died inPittsburgh.
Burial information unknown.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Where do you find that?
Do you have to go to thecourthouse Because it's
obviously not digital baseballref.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
So it's really if you're aware of a player, google
, search him Emmett Bowman, finda grave and it will give you
the information.
Most likely it will give youthat information.
Oh, emmett Bowman buried inCoriopolis Cemetery.
If there's no plot information,no picture of the grave, most
likely he's in an unmarked grave.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
So do you go then?

Speaker 4 (23:22):
So you can go to the cemetery or call the cemetery
first and say, can you confirmwith me that you have a guy by
the name of Emmett Bowman, whowas born this year, died this
year, in your cemetery, and theycan confirm yes or no.
So if it's not available online, we've got to call the cemetery

(23:42):
and then they look throughtheir records and say, yeah,
your name.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
You have a.
You have priority as to who youwant to get in first.
So how do you do that?

Speaker 4 (23:50):
How how we're prioritizing the markers is per
cemetery.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
That's how we, that's how we kind of you can kind of
knock out more you go cemeteryfirst, so it could be three in
one cemetery and you're going toget that done and then go to
the next cemetery.
Yes, that's the game plan I see.
When you find the player,they're at the cemetery.
It's unmarked.
Do you get to contact family?
Have you gotten that privilege,a couple?

Speaker 4 (24:20):
times I've been in contact with Willis Moody Wayne.
Moody Wayne Moody is thegrandson of Willis.
Moody Wayne wrote a good bookthat you should have on your
bookshelf, called the Real Storyof the Niggerleaks.
Oh wow, the Real Story of theNiggerleaks.
He wrote that book and smallworld because he graduated a few

(24:45):
years after my mother-in-lawdid in high school.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
Please tell me he's from around here.
Yeah, of course, really Livingaround here, yes, he does.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
I don't know exactly where, but he is in the
Pittsburgh area, wow.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Wow, he is in the Pittsburgh area.
Wow, I mean the rich baseballhistory in Pittsburgh.
That's the point of Hold myCutter.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Hey, we're exposing all this stuff.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
So he's the grandson of Willis Moody, who played for
the Homestead Grays in the early1920s, still living An author.
So we've shared a lot ofinformation, we've gone back and
forth.
I hooked him up.
I run a Facebook page calledDown from the Attic, vintage
Sports.
It's just a general interestpage.

(25:24):
Anyone can post on it.
But anyway he started to sharea lot of old newspaper articles
of his grandfather, willis Moody, so the story was out there.
Wow, he's playing with allthese other players that we know

(25:45):
about.
So that's one connection that Ihad with a family member.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
Did he know anything about this grave?

Speaker 4 (25:54):
So he knew he was unmarked and he's in Chartier
Cemetery in Carnegie.
He also has other family buriedthere.
So his initial thought was thathe wanted to do a stone on his
own.
He had an idea of what thestone wanted to look like.
But over the summer he reachedout to us and said hey, can you
put my grandfather on theproject?

(26:17):
Like to get a stone put in forhim?
So, just last week we got thatapproved.
I called a short-tier cemeteryand they said, yep, this is all
we need is the paperwork fromRome Monuments.
Who we work with.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Okay, and that's my next question, though, you have
to keep kind of a uniform onthis, I would think.
Right, it's fairly as simple asyou can make it.
Does any one grade get moreletters on it than any other?

Speaker 4 (26:48):
No, it's a simple name birth date, death date,
negro League baseball player.
Oh, that's it Flat marker 12 by24.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
It doesn't matter if one player is better than the
other.
No, correct.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Or how many teams they played for I see, so the
markers are just one simpletemplate of names.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
I'm sure the cost starts to go up as you put more
on it, right yeah?

Speaker 4 (27:15):
Now we're at a point where there's about four or five
guys that we know what cemeterythey're buried in, but we don't
know where they're buried.
So what do you do then?
So one guy, for example, is SamStreeter.
He was cremated.
He's in Homewood.
Cemetery.
He's in a section.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
So he could be everywhere Literally.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
He's in a section and the cemetery confirmed it, but
he doesn't have a lot like anactual plot himself.
So what we need to do with himis we talked to the cemetery and
they said, yeah, you can do aplaque, a plaque next to a tree
along the road.
All right For him, and that's awork in progress right now as

(28:01):
far as how much we want to writeon it.
Well, that's an interestingdynamic now, right now, as far
as how much we want to write onit.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
That's an interesting dynamic.
Now You've introduced somethinghere.
Because a plaque is cheaperthan the gravestone, you can
write more on it.
That's interesting, if youdon't find the gravesite.
Or you could put a plaque upinstead of a gravestone.

Speaker 4 (28:20):
That's something we're working through the
details with, because we've notdone a plaque yet.
We've just done the markers.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
You can almost tell the rich history of a plaque.

Speaker 4 (28:30):
So you picture an historical marker, the 1903
World Series marker right after.
Something in that nature.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Although there must be policies in these cemeteries,
you probably can't just startdotting all these cemeteries
with historical markers Right,so you've got to get the
approval.

Speaker 4 (28:47):
Every cemetery is different.
Yeah, I say that they have adifferent personality.
Some are well-maintained, someare more helpful than others.
Some you call them, they answerright away, they give you the
information right away orthey'll get back to you within
24 hours.
Others not so much.
Others were well, this guy here, good luck talking to that

(29:10):
cemetery.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Because of this reason, I think it would be
really cool if you go up to acemetery and there's a plaque
and it tells you some of thepeople that are buried there.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, but again I don't think that cemeteries I
don't think they really care.
I disagree with you.
Some do, some don't.
I think it would be awfullyinteresting to see if this
develops like this.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
I mean, if I was anywhere near Josh Gibson, I
would go see his grave.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Yeah, well, now I'm thinking what I want to do is I
want to get a nice plaque by theJosh Gibson grave site that has
all the information on it.
How about that?
Hold my cutter.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Sponsored by Hold.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
My Cutter, by the way , speaking of before we go any
further, if somebody wants tocontribute to the Josh Gibson
Foundation, or do you?

Speaker 3 (29:55):
I'll get all this information.

Speaker 4 (29:58):
We have a website, wwwjgfmemoriamarkersorg.
On the website.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
Okay, awesome, and it's only about two years old.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
Yes, yeah, march of 2023, I think, is when, roughly,
the website went live.
Okay, so on the website it hasthe players, the cemeteries, a
little bit more about theproject, and then there's a
donate button on the right-handside, very simple to fill out.
If you want your name on thelist once when you donate, you

(30:32):
can put your name andinformation out there.
If not, you can go anonymous.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Leonard Lee is our director, producer and sidekick.
What do you think of all this,leonard Len?
We call him Len Len Lee.
Very amazing.
I think it's cool that Is he on.
Can you hear me?
I can't hear him.
Can you hear me now?
How about now?
There we go.
I can hear you now.
What were you saying?
He's behind the lights, so wecan't see him right now.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
I'm the behind-the guy yeah but honestly, uh, the
fact that you know you're goingout your way and doing this type
of research and just keeping,uh, you know, keeping the
culture informed, you know, Ithink that's big uh, especially
in the baseball community, theblack culture as well, I think,
um, you know, that's kind ofamazing it's amazing, you know

(31:18):
it really is, isn't it?

Speaker 4 (31:19):
it's keeping these stories alive.
You know, and I'm, I'm, I'm,always've always been a big fan
of Rocky.
I'm from the Philadelphia area.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
It looks like you're making fun of Rocky.
I've always liked Rocky.
You're making fun of him.

Speaker 4 (31:31):
And I've always liked the story of the underdog and
these guys who played were justas good, if not better, than the
players in the major league,but they weren't given the fair
chance.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
I mean all they had to go through.
I mean they were playing threegames a day.
Yeah, I mean, it's no joke.
Bad bus rides yeah, absolutely,it's crazy to think.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
For them to perform the way they did, with no sleep
or sleeping on their suitcase asa pillow Yep, the worst
equipment, the worst equipmentand to go out and perform the
way they did.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
And do um, so I do enjoy.
And you know baseball, we'vetalked about this on all, almost
every one of our podcasts.
Baseball's about stories thatnobody has better stories than
the negro leagues, I mean.
And they, because they lovebaseball so much, they wore it
on their sleeves and they just,uh, some are, you know, just
like any story over the years.
Uh, don't, don't know how muchtruth there is to them, but uh,
the one about josh gibson hits apop-up in Pittsburgh at Forbes

(32:27):
Field.
You know that one Yep Pop-up sohigh didn't come down.
They don't know what happenedto it.
Next day they're playing in.
Washington.
Next day they're in WashingtonDC.
A fly ball comes out and thesky is caught.
The umpire says you're out fromyesterday in Forbes Field, yep
exactly.

Speaker 4 (32:44):
So that's how these stories come about.

Speaker 3 (32:46):
He's like Paul.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Bunyan yeah right, absolutely.
And to hear you know Cool PapaBell, oh, he was so fast.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
And their nicknames.
Is he the one that could turnthe lights off?
Yep.

Speaker 4 (32:58):
Get out of bed for now.
That's where Ali got it, yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
There's one where he pulled Papa Bell so fast.
He used a single up the middle,he ran second and it hits him
in the back.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, that's right.
That's a great one.
That is so great.
You had that problem, didn't?

Speaker 4 (33:13):
you, I did.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
Absolutely Still do.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
So I got interested in black baseball in Pittsburgh.
So in 2006, the same year whereI really started hunting for
graves, ironically is, I went toCooperstown and that was the
same year that about 17 NegroLeague players were inducted
into the Hall of Fame.
It was that year where mymother-in-law told me she said,

(33:39):
when you go up there, see if youcan meet Buck O'Neill.
Never heard of him, didn't knowanything about him.
Okay, sure, okay, I'll keep myeyes open.
So, sure enough.
On Main Street, cooperstown,signing Buck O'Neill, 3 o'clock
2.30.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Wait, wait wait, was that just random, yeah, just
random.

Speaker 4 (34:04):
That's great.
I was with my buddies and somefamily, just random.
I didn't plan it out.
Did she know?
She knew he was going to bethere?

Speaker 3 (34:13):
She didn't know any detail Wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
I love that the name sounds familiar.
My mother-in-law just told meokay, guys, I'll catch up with
you.
What a great mother-in-law justtold me okay, guys, I'll catch
up with you.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
What a great mother-in-law yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
So I got in line.
Okay, I was the third one inline and I just didn't know who
he was.
Oldest living nigger leaguebaseball player at the time, 94
years old.
Why not?
Went in Rome, you know.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Probably didn't look.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
94, did he Went in Rome, by the way, rome Graves,
yeah, exactly Graves.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
He pulls up in his car.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
He was riding shotgun and he gets out of the car.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
And now Brennan is actually standing up out of his
chair and strutting.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
He's got a swagger.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
But, by the way, with a gigantic smile on his face,
because he always smiled.
Oh, smiling ear to ear Smilingear to ear.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
He had the swag Tony At 94, the swag?

Speaker 2 (35:11):
I don't think he meant.
That's just where he walked,yeah.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Could have been a hip issue.
I don't know but he was verycool.
No, and I said, well, like allof a sudden, you hear the
stories about him.
It's so true.
He like lit up the room.
Okay, he comes out of the car.
Hey boys, hey boys, who are weplaying today, boys?
Hey girls, how are you doingtoday, girls?

(35:34):
Oh, okay, all right, he sitsdown.
I said, okay, now, I'm likestarstruck.
Now, what am I going to say tohim?
He just made this bigimpression on me.
What am I going to say?
Okay, think, think, think, bigbrain, pittsburgh, craze
Crawford.
He had to have played inPittsburgh, he just had to.

(35:55):
So I get up in line.
I said hey, buck, nice to meetyou.
I drove all the way up fromPittsburgh to see you and he
stopped, he put his sharpie down, looked me in the eye and said
Pittsburgh, the north side ofPittsburgh, I love Pittsburgh.
And he just went back 70 years.

(36:19):
You could see this happening.
Oh yeah, and we both justflashed back to a time when he
was playing just like that, andhe shook my hand.
He said take care, young buck.
Wow, I swear, he was likemagical, unbelievable.
And then you read these booksand watch them on YouTube.

(36:41):
He's the coolest guy that everlived.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
That's amazing.
I'm sorry.
I don't want to interrupt you,but you were at an event we did
weeks ago up in Newcastle ChuckTanner Day and people got up and
talked about Chuck, and Chuckwas one of those rare people
that, when you're in hispresence, he made you feel
better about yourself.
You walked away like I want tospend the rest of my life just

(37:06):
hanging out with this guybecause I feel so good about
myself what made him it.
Just some people a handful of mylifetime have had that effect.
You know what I'm talking about, brennan, because you know.
So I'm right now listening toold audio tapes that I have.
My wife saved boxes of oldaudio tapes when I was doing
minor league baseball and we hadBuck O'Neill in a booth with us

(37:29):
for a couple of innings once.
And people have asked me yourmemories of your career, your
minor league career.
I spent five years doing thesegames.
That's at the top of my list.
He came in for a couple ofinnings.
Can we digitize that?
That's amazing.
You've got to get that.
I'm looking, I'm looking for it.
You know what I'm talking aboutBecause you had the moment with

(37:49):
him.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
It was one of those moments, for sure.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
And people say who is the most?

Speaker 4 (37:56):
influential person in your life, buck O'Neill's top
five.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Isn't that amazing.
One little interaction, fiveminutes he just had that aura.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
He just had that aura .
So at that time I said I've gotto learn more about black
baseball in Pittsburgh.
I know there's something there.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
So this elevated your journey.

Speaker 4 (38:15):
Yes, so that was part of my interest of how things
kind of started.
I've got to learn more.
I'm home to the greatestPittsburgh Crawfords for crying
out loud, Two of the greatestteams that I've ever played in
the Negro Leagues.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Talk about that process.
A lot of people maybe they know, maybe they don't, but talk
about where did you start fromthere?
Obviously you get a deeperinterest because a good old buck
Go from there.
What was the next step?

Speaker 4 (38:44):
and you were just like the next aha moment.
Um, the next moment wasprobably we're going to 2020,
february 2020 so think about it,his love right.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Oh, six to 2020.
That's when I left college,brownie but okay, there we go
again.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
But I'm just, I'm just saying, that's a long time
yeah, so my entire pro career.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yep right, yeah, and I'm in the booth now.
Yep 2020 that's nuts it is.
And his love carried him allthe way in his next big moment
chasing that moment, obviouslyit's a euphoric feeling.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Keep going so the next moment was february of 2020
, before covid um Sean Pre-COVID.
Yes, sean hosted the 100thanniversary of the Negro Leagues
at the Heinz History Center,because they were formed by Rube

(39:36):
Foster in 1920.
February 1920.
They celebrated the 100thanniversary, so my wife Prior to
that, the Negro Leagues.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
Was there anything During that time?
Was it just like Sandlotbaseball at the time?

Speaker 4 (39:57):
Pre-Negro Leagues yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
I grew up One of my first books was the Josh Gibson
book.
My grandmother gave it to mewhen I was four or five.
I could barely read it.
But Josh Gibson, jackieRobinson, so I fell in love with
those guys.
But I never thought about priorto that Was there anything
there?

Speaker 4 (40:13):
Sandlots, yeah, I mean you think you know they
played at Greenleaf Field, theHill District.
They played at Forest Field,but prior to when.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
I did Nothing organized.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
So they did barnstorming, which they would
have a team and they would justgo from town to town and do
basically pickup games.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
So they'd just go whoop up on people.
Yeah, pretty much, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
You know.
So Sandlots from, we'll say,1900 to 1920.
So even when I wrote on EmmettBowman, who died in 1912, he
didn't have a headstone for 111years.
He died at 26 years old fromtuberculosis.
But he played with anothergreat around here, Pete Hill,

(41:01):
who grew up in Homewood, RubeFoster, Grant, Homerun Johnson,
these pre-Nigger League players,and he was the trailblazer for
what we now know as the NiggerLeagues that started in 1920.
And then that formed and then27 years later Jackie Robinson

(41:21):
integrated baseball and then theNigger Leagues kind of faded
out because everybody wanted tosee Jackie play in the majors
and others that followed him.
They were more now going toMajor League Baseball games.
So the Negro Leagues eventuallyfaded out during that time.
So the 100th anniversary of theNegro Leagues, that's where I

(41:43):
met Sean for the first time andI met Al Oliver.
What a great human.
And just they presented on theNegro Leagues.
You know, not only just Josh,but other players of just the
history of the game.
I said this is cool, like thisis just right up my alley.
I like history, I like baseball.
That's so great.
My baseball career didn't turnout too much so I like history I
like baseball.

(42:03):
That's so great.
My baseball career didn't turnout too much, so I'm like I'm
going to dig into this.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
And things really evolved, you know, from 2020 to
where we are now with thenputting in the markers for these
players.
That's a lot of stuff in ashort amount of time.
You've done yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
How many times have we heard the story?
Instead of being oh, pitiful meduring 2020, people said you
know what I'm gonna do?
Something oh yeah, andsomething great comes out
talking to david allen aboutthat.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Yeah, right, isn't that crazy?

Speaker 3 (42:30):
yeah, because you could sit back and be like why
is this happening?
Yeah, or you could take charge,so that's what you took charge,
that's all vince.

Speaker 4 (42:36):
When he wrote the grace in the graveyard book that
was his uh project, he said I'mgonna walk in cemeteries and
try to find family members.
Then he thought, you know what?
I'm going to try to findbaseball players.
So that's how he started withthe book made of negative into
positive right there.
And then we just traveledaround learning more about

(42:59):
players in the area and thenjust resurfacing their stories
that we now have.
I wrote on Willis Moody andEmmett Bowman in the book you
Google search Emmett Bowman,you're not going to find
anything about him Nothing.
So I kind of twisted it withthe Josh Gibson Foundation and

(43:19):
how he was basically my firstassignment and how it was my
personal story of that playerInteresting, but yeah, he played
with the Philadelphia Giantsuntil 1911.
It was his last baseball careerseason and died in 1912.
And then his brother, george,played in the Negro Leagues but

(43:42):
he's buried in Iowa.
Another guy that we had inMarch is Lefty Pangburn.
He's in Round Hill Cemetery.
He played with Emmett's brother.
So they all, there's all theseties and connections.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
What's one or two players that you just resonated
with.
They don't have to bewell-known, could add a cup of
coffee, but you're just like,wow, what a story.

Speaker 4 (44:08):
I would have to say Emmett Bowman.
I think, just because he was myfirst one, that I had him,
until you see the marker put in,you know.
What a great moment.
What does that feel like?

Speaker 2 (44:19):
By the way, is there a ceremony?
Are you always there when it'sput in?
No, okay.

Speaker 4 (44:23):
So there was a ceremony for Pud Gooden because
it was like the first mark.
Is that his real name, ernestPud Gooden?
Pud was his nickname.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
You want to know where I got the nicknames from?
Yeah, I know, I know.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
But nicknames have been phased out over the years
too, unfortunately with baseball.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
That's sad years too, unfortunately with baseball.
Yeah, so there was a ceremonyfor him in july of 2023.
Not all have ceremonies, butwhen I first saw emma bowman, I
knew nothing about him until Iwalked up that hill and saw his
stone.
I said I need to learn moreabout this guy.
Yeah, who is he?
Who did he play for?
You know?
And that that's when Vince and Ihad this idea of writing the

(45:06):
book.
He said I already had my storywritten on Willis Moody.
He said pick two more guys towrite about.
I said I want to challengemyself and write about Emma
Berman just because of the storyand you can read about it.
How I walked up and the sunshining, man neat.
I just expressed how it was andhow it happened.

(45:29):
Then I said so if they weremarked, if there was a story on
them in the newspaper, if therewas a story on them in the
newspaper, it was on the backpage, very bottom, so they
didn't get the credit or thespotlight that other, like your
Hannes Wagners of the world orChrissy Mathesons were getting

(45:50):
during 1903, 1910, at the time.
So they were always put off tothe side.
So finding this information wasa challenge to find and write
about.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Now, brandon, this is a dumb question.
Are these all Negro Leagueplayers?
No, okay, it's kind of morphedinto this for you the grave
sites and the Josh GibsonFoundation.
It started out beyond that, andso now you're kind of
concentrating on the NegroLeague players.
Get their grave sites, butthere are then many others that
are unmarked, aren't there.
There's other white playersthat are unmarked aren't there.

Speaker 4 (46:24):
There's other white players that are unmarked.
Yes, so that's another projectto tackle.
We're just focusing on theNegro League and there's other
Negro League players buriedoutside of Allegheny and in
other cities Philadelphia andCleveland so Sean has been
contacted by people from thesecities.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Beyond this area and they're seeing what we're doing.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
Hey, do you know about so-and-so?
He's unmarked here.
How can you help?
What can we do?
And it's kind of like hey,we're focusing on Pittsburgh
right now.
Maybe after we're finished wecan further extend the project,
but until then we're trying tofocus on Allegheny County right

(47:07):
now.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
Do you have 11 left that you know of.

Speaker 4 (47:10):
So now there's two that are in progress, three more
that we got approved forAllegheny.
So I think three, five, I thinkthere's six that are in the
process of being put in.
So that would put us at 17, putin to start the spring of 2025.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
And then there's like four where we have to decide
what we're going to do, becausethey're not going to get a
marker, unless somehow we'retold where they are in the
cemetery.
But we're working on plaquesand other things.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
How many people do you have working?
Not just you and Vince right.
You two are pretty much it,though.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
Me, vince, sean Chris Cox, but I'm actually doing the
research Mainly me and Vince.
Yeah, yeah, man, what a projectyou love it.
Oh, love it.
Yeah, I can tell what a projectyou love it.
Oh, love it.
Yeah, I can tell.
So another story to share.
Last August I was helping runthe Josh Gibson booth at a party

(48:12):
and a teacher came up to mefrom Seneca Valley and said this
is so cool, I need to dosomething with my seventh grade
class, can you help me?
So me and him hooked up and hisclass raised money, oh, oh,
raised money, and he created theawareness of how to keep and

(48:33):
preserve history.
So I worked with him at thebeginning of this year.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
That's a brilliant idea.
Yeah, yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
What the kids were doing.
They would get on the morningannouncements and they would say
, hey, we're raising money Ican't think of the guy's name
offhand, but raising money for agrave marker Any dollar you
donate, you get a lollipop.
How about that?
And no, they made flyers, theymade banners in their cafeteria.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
How neat is that.

Speaker 4 (49:03):
And then I went in March to Seneca Valley and they
gave me the check for what theydonated.
I passed it along to Sean forthe foundation and there was a
good group of them that reallyjust were passionate about it
and they just had a smile ear toear.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
They got to tie their name to something.
Yeah, it says a lot when you'relistening?

Speaker 4 (49:23):
The Seneca Valley?
Yes, correct, seneca Valley dida news article on it.
But I always think too wow,what did I just do there?
These kids are not going toremember a math test or a math
lesson or learning aboutsomething here in 7th grade.
What are they going to learnabout?
I remember in 7th grade Iraised money for this marker

(49:45):
Absolutely they will.
This guy was in an unmarkedgrave and we were on TV and we
met Sean and this guy came in.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
It's because, you're giving them ownership.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
So it's yeah.
That's crazy, and that was likeI look back at it.
I said I was really a part ofthat, so it's yeah, that's not
true, it's given to ownership.
That's crazy.
And that was like I look backat it.
I said I was really a part ofthat, man, you know.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
So it's spreading, so you've got to do that again,
right, yeah, right, you've gotto figure out a way to do that
again.

Speaker 4 (50:06):
So exactly, other schools in the area, other
certain events, to spread theword, to create the awareness.
It's just something that Iwould love to do big picture
dream a little for me.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
What's the dream?
That there's no unmarked gravesis that too big?

Speaker 4 (50:33):
there's a guy in Illinois who says there's about
3,000 players in nigger league,players in unmarked graves about
3,000 players in Negro Leagueplayers in unmarked graves 3,000
?
Around the country?

Speaker 3 (50:46):
Yes, Wow, yeah, so Sounds like another team up.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
I'm just saying, Jeez , there's a.
I know so it's a never endingproject here in Allegheny County
.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
We can get to it quicker than the other ones that
are still nationwide.

Speaker 4 (51:03):
First, things first, how we're ever going to get all
those, or whether we'll be apart of that, cemetery to
cemetery.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
We're a part of this in Pittsburgh.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
But dreaming-wise, it'd be cool to get all of them.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
Certainly Think about any book you write, Right that
too.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
If they have unmarked grave, think about the story.

Speaker 4 (51:24):
That's untold so the wheels are already spinning for
a possible other book, down theline of what I could do to write
my own book.
So it's to keep these storiesalive.
And you know it's uh, yeah, tokeep these stories alive and you
know it's um pretty fascinating.
It's it's strange to know thatthere's so many in on more

(51:47):
graves, but it's raising thatmoney, creating new work.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
It's getting them so many stories they deserve.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Um has mlbpa got involved at all?

Speaker 4 (51:57):
I'm not sure to an extent of how much Maybe we need
to call.
Yeah, sounds good to me.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
I think this is something that they would really
get behind.
I mean, you've got to thinkthere's not even 24,000 guys,
including the Negro Leagueplayers, that have even played
the major leagues.
So if you put that inperspective, I don't know if
you're going after minor leagueplayers too, If you are kudos to
you.

Speaker 4 (52:26):
But kudos to you.
But I mean, think about it.
There's no reason why theywouldn't want to get behind.
Because you're talking about 23000.
You got 3 000 to go if you goleague wise.
Yeah, we got work to do, noright, exactly, wow.
So every marker that we haveinstalled we have a sign with a
qr code just identifies theplayer, so it kind of gets the
attention when somebody'swalking by.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
Oh, who's this on the ?

Speaker 4 (52:39):
grave it's.
It's a so you have the in theground and then it's just a sign
that's in the ground like ayard sign that says you know for
the Josh Gibson Foundation onMark Grave Project so cool.
And here is Emmett Bowman.
He played for these teams.

(53:00):
And then a QR code.
You can just use your phone,get on the QR code and it'll go
right to our website to givemore information on the player
so that kind of ties in therewith just creating more
awareness of some of theseplayers.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
It's all started with the interest, which is so cool
to come full circle.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
It was 20 years later to say I'm sitting here with
you guys right now talking aboutI read a book that I was
inspired by.
Now I wrote a book.
Did you ever think?

Speaker 3 (53:32):
you'd write a book.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
Not this soon.
What do you do?

Speaker 3 (53:34):
for a living.

Speaker 4 (53:35):
I work at GNC so international Fellow meathead my
friend oh man.
So 20 years with the companynow, wow, pittsburgh Company.
Yeah, pittsburgh Companyfounded in 1935.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Or gold yeah or gold yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
So I've been in the area since I was 18, went to
Cypriot Rock and my wife wasfrom here and the rest is
history Stayed in the Pittsburgharea.
I've had family that lived here, like Monroeville and
Bridgeville years ago.
I never met them.
They were relatives, but anywayit all comes together.

(54:17):
So, yeah, to say, read a bookthat inspired me here and it
just kind of happened whereVince said, hey, why don't you
write a couple on a couple ofplayers?
And I said sure.
And then he's like I'm going toplug it in into the book.
I'll put your name on the frontcover and then there's pictures

(54:39):
in there.
Into the book.
I'll put your name on the frontcover, then there's pictures in
there.
You'll talk about our familytrips and the kids and just how
I started doing this.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
How many grave sites total have you visited, not just
the ones that you've putmarkers in?

Speaker 4 (54:55):
I've tried to keep a list.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
What would your guess be?

Speaker 4 (54:58):
It's not accurate, but it is roughly 100.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
100?
Yeah, is there one that standsout as the most impressive?
Because we talked about thoseunmarked, but what about maybe
the most impressive headstonethat you've seen, nellie Fox.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
Nellie Fox, which he's very aware of.
You have to think long for that.

Speaker 4 (55:12):
Nellie Fox is in St Thomas, pa.
St Thomas, pa.
St Thomas, that's where he wasfrom, played for the White Sox
Hall of Famer.
He had over 3,000 hits and 90%of them were singles.
It just goes to show hit theball, get on base.

(55:33):
His marker was cool.
You could see it a mile away.
Is that up north central PA?
Where is?

Speaker 2 (55:41):
that.

Speaker 4 (55:43):
It's central, more south central.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
You said you could see it from a mile away.
What do you mean?
Was it lit up?

Speaker 4 (55:52):
No kind of exaggerating, but you pull in
the cemetery, it's a big marker.
It doesn't have fireworks on itor anything, but it's a big
marker.
It doesn't have fireworks on itor anything, but it's a big
marker.
When he was inducted into theHall of Fame that was it was
different than the other markersthat I was finding that were
just flat markers with just aname on the marker.

(56:14):
That's right near Chambersburg.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
I'm from Central PA and I should know that.
Come on, let's get with it.

Speaker 4 (56:18):
I think it sounds like you guys are on an
adventure that's right nearChambersburg.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
I'm from central PA and I should know that.
Come on, brownie, come on,let's get with it, let's go.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
Come on, it sounds like you guys are on an
adventure here.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Yeah, we are.
We're going to be to find gravemarkers.
We'll be following you.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
We're going to have a caravan going.
I like it.
I like it.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
Like Dumb and Dumber the other way totally redeem
yourself.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Yeah, we're in the wrong cemetery.
How many times have you justbeen completely like either
dumbfounded or lost?

Speaker 4 (56:48):
um a few, a handful of times.
Yes, so it is.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
It is helpful if you're prepared yeah, I mean, I
use google maps all time.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
It wears me out especially if you're traveling
away from your home.
Yeah, so if you know where theyare, if they have a pin on them
like a GPS marker, which ishelpful, say, okay, he has a
marker easy to find we can pullin and the GPS will take us
right to where he's buried JudyJohnson in Wilmington, delaware.
Great example they were comingback from the shore.

(57:19):
I knew he had a marker.
That's where he was from.
The cemetery was not marked atall.
I put on the GPS marker, droveright up to him.
If he was not marked like that,there was no way I would have
been able to find him.
No way.
So that is helpful.
Is there anybody you found notin the cemetery, so that is
helpful.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Is there anybody you found not in a cemetery?

Speaker 4 (57:44):
there was a cemetery.
No, not just yet, but there aretimes where you've been misled.
You know where the name of thecemetery is very similar, or
like Uniondale, for example.
You have Uniondale.
For example, you have Uniondale1, 2, and 3 right here on the
north side.
That can be confusing.

(58:04):
Oh geez, and Uniondale, whichone?
There's three Uniondales.
Yeah, what?
Yep?
There's a 1, 2, and 3.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Yalzer, not a yinzer, explain you are a yalzer.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Explain why you're a y'all sir.
Explain why you're a y'all sir.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Because I'm from Tennessee and now I live in
Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
He's a y'all.
Sir.
Can't be a full yinzer, can'tbe a full y'all.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
So I go with the y'all, sir, because that's how
we use y'all.
It's the same way you guys useyins.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
Y'all, sir yinzer.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
How can there be three of one place Confusing
Less from the south?
That's just how they're named.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
There are towns around there Three is unusual
there are boroughs and townsaround there.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Thing, one, thing, two.

Speaker 4 (58:43):
Thing three or there's a cemetery that's split,
yeah.
Or, like Nellie Fox, there's acemetery in Cooperstown.
Okay, here's a cemetery, butthe road goes right through it.
So what side is he on?
You've got to split it, yeah.
How do I know where to?

Speaker 2 (58:57):
look.

Speaker 4 (58:58):
I interrupted you, by the way.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
I think I interrupted you the details on the Nelly
Fox, why that was so impressive,that gray side.
What made it so impressive?

Speaker 4 (59:05):
Well, it, was a big marker.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
It's huge.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
Huge marker, okay, and it was different than other
markers that I found Did it havea lot of details.
Yes, Okay, details on it, andit was just different from the
other flat markers on the ground, so that was like my first cool
marker that I saw.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Was there also a story about Rube Waddell, though
in Prospect PA?
Why?

Speaker 4 (59:27):
that was so unique.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Rube Waddell is buried in Texas, by the way, a
Hall of Famer former pirate inthe early 1900s, like four years
with Louisville and Pittsburgh.
He was one of the guys thatcame over from Louisville to
Pittsburgh.
Barney Dreyfuss right.

Speaker 4 (59:42):
I think he was.
Yeah, he was a strangecharacter, a very, very strange
character, but he lived inProspect, so there's a
historical marker for him.
His house is still standing,which is going to be torn down
soon, so that's just.
Even though he's not buriedhere, he's from here.
Historical marker here.
One guy I found who played forthe Grays, smokey Joe Williams.

(01:00:05):
He's in Suitland, maryland near.
Washington DC.
I said, oh, he's an easy stopon the way home.
Meanwhile we pulled into acemetery.
We weren't sure if we were inthe right cemetery and after
walking around the cemetery foralmost an hour, I said erica,

(01:00:28):
let's just go like, forget it,I'm you know, the kids are tired
, we need to get home.
She said no, we are here, we'regonna find don't lie, it's
getting dark.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
You're a little nervous.

Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
So, sure enough, he's right in front of us.
I just walked over him.
You're always listening to lifeJeez.
He's in the cemetery, he's inthis section.
I find him.
I look at him in the pictureand find a grave Looking at the
background.
Okay, he's in this section.
Where is he?
And we must have walked by 10,15 times.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
He's right there, right near our car, where we
parked.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
It's almost like a detective story.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
He was smoking.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Ah yes, no doubt.
That's why I'm part of the deal.
Hold my cutter.

Speaker 4 (01:01:12):
Hold my cutter.
That can happen a lot too often.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Do you have?

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
any like ghost stories.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Just to confirm, because most of the time I'm
wrong, but in 1899, barneyDreyfus purchased the Pittsburgh
National League Club, arrangedthat trade with the team he
previously owned, the LouisvilleColonels, and he brought with
him Hannes Wagner, fred Clarkand Rube Waddell.

Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
Greatest trade in.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Pittsburgh history and that led to all the
championships.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
Anyway, I'm sorry, that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
I feel like good trades, good stories.
I'd just like to confirm yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:45):
There's Walter Johnson.
He's in Rock Hill, maryland, soagain another one.
When we travel go to Ocean City, maryland, for our vacation
let's find a guy, walter Johnson, big train Hall of Famer, one
of the first five inducted theoriginal big train.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
We got a big locomotive in our Paul schemes,
so you know between WalterJohnson, the Hannes Wagner.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
Christy Matheson, babe Ruth, ty Cobb were the
first five.
Christy Matheson is in PA also,but I haven't seen Babe Ruth or
Ty Cobb yet, so I've seen threeout of the five.
Christy Matheson is in PA also,but I haven't seen Babe Ruth or
Ty Cobb yet, so I've seen threeout of the five, do you?

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
know where they're buried.

Speaker 4 (01:02:24):
Of the inaugural class Babe Ruth, new York.
Ty Cobb, georgia.
Okay, so Walter Johnson.
So we went and found him on theway to the shore, got to his
grave.
His grave's right along thewood line.
There's a book, there's ballsthat people are leaving.
My two kids, kogan and Kara,they're just kind of up to no

(01:02:50):
good.
They're looking in the woodsand they see this crazy creepy
doll that's in the woods.
That had no reason to be thereat all.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
It wasn't walking, was it?
No, it wasn't walking, it was adoll.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
Just like in the tree .

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
So that was the core.

Speaker 4 (01:03:09):
So every time we talk about that's how they think of
Walter Johnson.
Oh, the creepy doll story.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
I bet they have some really good stories.
Well, could you imagine a kid?
What'd you do in a graveyardwhen you were a?

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
kid Not go yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
I lived there, if I could find one.

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
I was there.
They always talk about it Stayaway.
They always say, hey, on theway to the shore can we stop and
see if that creepy doll's stillthere.
So Walter Johnson was not thebig train.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Walter Johnson was Creepy Doll yeah, Creepy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
Doll.
No internet for Cy Young.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Yeah, of course that's Creepy Doll, no internet,
so that's how you really havemore yes exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
So that's how the kids know.
Kara, our youngest one, hasreally helped out and she's
adventurous with the graves.
Oh okay, she loves it.
She's going out with Vince andI oh nice.
And has done promo videos ofwhere we are, who the player is.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
Wow, I'm sure it's a blast.
I mean, that's an adventure fora kid.
Yeah Right, you don't know whatyou're going to find.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
So she talks, you know.
So she's a Philadelphia fan,like I am.
She's daddy's girl, are westill alive?
Yeah.
And so she talks to her guyfriends in school and she'll say
okay, oh, do you know whoHannes Wagner is?
No, do you know who Josh Gibsonis?

(01:04:29):
No, do you know who FrankMiller is?
Do you know who Pud Gooden is?
Do you know who Emmett Bowmanis?
Wow, no, you call yourself aPittsburgh fan and you don't
know who these guys are.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
That is so great.

Speaker 4 (01:04:42):
She is aware of the project and what?

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
I do.

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
It's teaching her.
She's on board with it.
I always say she's going to bea baseball executive someday how
old is she, she's 11.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
That's great.

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
Name drop in like no problem.
11, that's great.
Oh, what's his name dropping?

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
like no problem, yeah , um, that's great stuff, but
that's that's the test when shebrings her first date home.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
You know, I always think about being uncle mike,
from bad boys too, so terrifywhoever comes home.
Are you gonna give them, like a, a test?

Speaker 4 (01:05:16):
I thought about it.
You knowus Wagner Well she'llhave done that already.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
She will have done that already.
What about Josh Gibson?
No Beat it man.

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
Where are they buried ?

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Yeah, right, yeah, but she will have already done
that, could you imagine?

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
By the time they get there.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
She could be smitten.
Yeah, she's smitten, she mightbe smitten.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
The flying Dutchman.
He ain't coming to the house,Ain't no chance.
She's stepping one foot in theSchuster house.
This guy doesn't know aboutHannes Wagner.

Speaker 4 (01:05:43):
I'm taking him to a cemetery.
Might be back, I don't know,but we're going to a cemetery.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
I like it.
I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Yeah, what an absolute blast man to have you
on the show and you said beforethat you were a big fan, that
you loved Hold my Cutter.
It's your favorite podcast ofall 100%.
You're aware by now we justfound this out that it's a top
25% listener response podcastaround the country and we're

(01:06:10):
thrilled that you joined us.

Speaker 4 (01:06:11):
Thanks for having me An honor to be here.
Appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Oh, honor's ours.

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
We look forward to working with you guys again,
absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
And we're going to go searching for some graves when
we leave here and maybe we'll doa live podcast from one of the
grave sites, a cemetery.
I like it.
At night, leonard, did that beall right with you?
I'm down, man, let's do it,let's do it.
Let's do it.
See you next time.
On Hold my Cutter.