What Happens When the Mask Comes Off?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
everyone's uh.
Fred kusick used to say uh, Idon't know, fred, but uh, I've
been hitting ahead a lot oftimes by a hockey puck, so I'm
not quite sure about that playthat is spanky lavalier to start
.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hold my cutter, mike spank lavalier, the former
buckle catcher who lives here ingraydon.
A special edition of hold mycutter, mike spank levier, the
former buckle catcher who liveshere in graydon.
Special edition of hold mycutter.
Spanky, said you know I I thinkthere are thousands and
thousands of people that aretuned in now to hold my cutter.
I'd like to jump on board here.
And he decided he's the firstguest, by the way, who's
provided us with stogie?

(00:40):
He's a legend, an absolutelegend.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
This is my go-to everyday cigar Oliva yes, Okay,
the Oliva, I'm sorry.
Siri G, which is, like I said,a very fine cigar.
My favorite is Monte Cristo no2.
Oh yeah, the Monte Cristo.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
No 2.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I don't break any laws.
So for this we've I don't breakany laws.
So for this we've got the legalstokes.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
The Oliva from.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Spanky LaValle.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, let me.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
I want you to cough so fucking bad, excuse me.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's the first F-bomb Spanky will drop.
And the last one Very specialedition of Hold my, we started,
yeah, we started.
You started out with your uh, Imean you just quoting the movie
, whatever, yeah, what is itolivio?
I called it olivia, oliva,oliva good catcher spanky, how
long have you lived in bradent I?

Speaker 1 (01:42):
moved here from St Pete, moved from New Hampshire,
st Pete, 1985.
And when I got traded to thePirates in 87, my in-laws were
snowboarding from New Hampshireto Bradenton and figured well,
you know what, let's just moveto Bradenton.
So I've been here since 1988.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
That's unbelievable 1988.
And you hear people who havelived in one place for a long
time.
You hear it up in Pittsburgh,the Cranberry area, how much
it's changed.
You know there are just cowpastures.
I mean it has changed this area.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, especially out east.
The Lakewood Ranch wasbasically just milk cow farms
and now it's a thrivingcommunity, great golf courses,
great restaurants.
A little too far out from myliking, but yeah, everything

(02:37):
east of the interstate wasbasically palmetto, bushes and
cows, and now it's someabsolutely fabulous
neighborhoods.
Spanky, we call those heiftobushes and cows.
Now it's some absolutelyfabulous neighborhoods.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
We call those heifers , not cows.
Tennessee just saying.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Don't you eat heifers , you milk cows.
Good point.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
We call those slugbusters.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
I majored in cow biology in college, did you?
No, absolutely not.
I majored in cow biology incollege, did you no, absolutely
not.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
I majored in baseball .
So two catchers walk into a barand this is what you get.
This is what you're going toget all day baby.
You get McHenry and LaValle.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
You know I couldn't help it.
I had to take it off the.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I might do the same thing at some point.
Yeah, I kind of feel cool withit.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
I can to take it off the.
I might do the same thing atsome point.
Yeah, I kind of feel cool withit.
I can't, because it's got thisbeautiful catching glove.
This is what the athletes use.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Oh, that's, it's this kind of glove.
Yeah, hey, greg, these areathletes.
These are athletes.
Greg, you understand, I don'twant to move, you understand.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
The athletes.
You's what they want, right,you put the cigar in it.
It's a beautiful display.
That's all Michael LaValleeright there.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, it's a concept that a lot of catchers don't get
is get the ball inside theglove.
It usually helps.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
That helps a lot.
It helps a lot.
Yeah, Catching the ball isimportant.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
And it's funny because nowadays a lot of these
guys use small gloves, 33-inchgloves.
This is a 35-inch glove.
That's what I used and I had noissues getting the ball out and
I just figured you know, maybeI'm not as good as the other
kids, I need a bigger glove.
So that's what I used and Inever even thought about going

(04:24):
to a smaller glove.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
You know they didn't make a glove above 33 and a half
.
For a long time it was anall-star guard for a long time.
They discontinued that 35.
They brought it back becauseall the receiving numbers and
everything else.
That's a game changer.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Oh yeah, you know, and it's one thing you know if
you have to be perfect all thetime and it's tough, because you
know as a catcher it's a longseason you got bumps, you got
bruises, you know you take abeating mentally and physically.
You got to babysit thoseknuckleheads on the mounds.

(04:57):
So the last thing you want todo is have issues with your
glove, no doubt.
And if you've got somethingthat you're comfortable with,
you know you can handle just oneless thing to check off, you
don't have to worry about noquestion, no question by the way
, if you're watching hold mycutter right now on youtube,
you're where the heck are theseguys?

Speaker 2 (05:14):
we're actually doing a special edition of hold my
cutter in bradenton, florida,right outside the uh, what's
this called?
Is this called the mckechnieclubhouse at lecom park?

Speaker 3 (05:24):
I believe it's I think it's a greg brown
clubhouse no, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Not yet, not, not yet , not yet.
No, not not yet.
It should be.
Yeah, it's just a matter oftime yeah, just a matter of time
.
So anyway, we're here insidethis tent area.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
We're renaming things yes, we are nowadays, in this,
in this country, 100everything's been renamed gulf
of america, just along theAmerica.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
We're just along the Golf of America, right back a
few miles from us.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
I wonder if they're going to change.
It's so true, they've got tochange the street now.
Golf of Mexico Drive.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's got to be Golf of America.
Drive, that's right 100%.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
You've got to be in uniform.
You've got to stay current.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
You got to stay current, stay current.
How much do you pay attentionto the current state of baseball
, the Pirates and, specifically,catchers?
Do you ever watch games andconcentrate?
Because I know he does.
He just took a giant leap forus.
I know this big sigh, I don'twant to hear how great baseball

(06:20):
was back when you played.
I am trying my best to say thisin a way that doesn't sound
like I'm an old disgruntled guy.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
I think there's a balance to it.
You know what Nowadays?
I don't understand the catchingthat's going on right now.
I used to help with some collegekids around and they started
catching on on me.
I used to help with somecollege kids around and they
started catching on in me and Icouldn't teach them because I
don't believe in it.
But again, that's part of theold-fashioned part.

(06:55):
I just don't see it, especiallyat the younger levels, being
able to do that.
The big leagues guys are alittle more pinpoint, I get it
Okay.
But at the lower levels, ableto do that, the big leagues guys
are a little more pinpoint, Iget it okay.
But at the lower levels college, high school, little league if
you're on a knee you're notdoing any service.
Well, how do you ever build upstrength?

(07:15):
Well, you know, there's a lotof endurance, there's a lot of
things.
Um, you know, and I tell all mykids, uh, that whenever I was
uh coaching, catching aroundhere, be a kid swim, ride your
bike.
You know you're not going to getany stronger with that nintendo
.
You might have some badassthumps but you know what?

Speaker 2 (07:36):
that ain't gonna help you.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
But yeah, just you know what be um.
Be an athlete, play all thesports, yeah, sports.
You develop different musclegroups.
To me as a catcher, you needall of that all of it.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Okay, I want to hear a debate.
Yeah, you take the side of.
You know what I like one-kneecatchers and Spanky can retort
what's the great benefit of ofcatching these days, and most of
them do, I don't.
Is there anybody that's notdoing it?

Speaker 3 (08:07):
now.
No, um, there's not.
There's guys that transitioninto a normal stance, but no,
nobody's really doing it anyother way.
Now and to spanky's point, Ithink it's a disservice because
you watch these guys at themajor level and they were more
pinpoint.
They're getting paid to receivethe ball better, they're able
to manipulate, because if me andyou I I've been fortunate

(08:29):
enough recently to catchbullpens and do this off a knee
we would have been different.
I mean, you're gold glover, Ireally believe I could have been
that much better because itkept me, it keeps me close to
the ground, but I wouldn't staythere.
And that's one thing I telleverybody is Stone Brown.
Just today we're watchingsomebody catch, not going to
mention any names, they'retipping the pitches.
That's the biggest thing for meis I can see, because they're

(08:51):
vulnerable one way or the otherand they have the wrong knee
down and they can't move to theleft, they can't move to the
right, so they'll give away apitch.
And especially at the collegelevel, I do a lot of college
stuff and I see these guys andthey set up early and it's like
all right, here comes a fastballup, here comes a breaking ball
down.
You can see the anxietyimmediately, because most of
these guys don't have the rhythmand timing.

(09:11):
Because that's what, more thananything, folks, knee down or
not, you can catch the knee down.
I'm sure there's some picturesout to you as you're catching
the ball, your knee's fallingdown.
That's being athletic.
What these guys aren'tunderstanding, they're getting
stuck in unathletic positionsand that's where, at the major
league level, you can get awaywith it, because they miss in
like a three to five foot area.
Even in college these guys arethrowing 100.

(09:33):
Now They'll miss seven feet andyou cannot get to that ball.
So I could sit here and debatethem.
The analytics will show thatthese guys are blocking better.
But you look at the size of theguys like even on our team
Outside of Henry Davis,everybody is 6'1 or taller.
It is a different animal.
It helps them stay grounded andthey can cover more space.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
That's the point.
Okay, so you were not that tall.
Was that one of the reasons whyit wouldn't have made sense for
you anyway?
Right, I always believed thatwas an advantage of anything.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, you know, being five foot eight is I fold up
better than that guy.
That's six foot four yeah, hefunnels the ball in differently.
Yeah, exactly, and you know oneof the things you know.
The argument is you know you'regoing to get pitches.
Well, I can tell you this ifthey ever go to that automated
umpire, guess what?

Speaker 2 (10:27):
You don't have to make anything look good.
It's one of the reasons theywon't do it.
They will not go to the ABSsystem.
They're going to go to thechallenge system in spring
training this year and then nodoubt it will be in baseball,
major league baseball, duringthe regular season next year.
But it will be just thechallenge because they don't
want to impact these catchers.
The framing how big Spanky whenyou played.
I can't recall the framingstuff being so important.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Well, I can tell you this the relationships between
catchers and umpires was a hugefactor.
So that really was moreimportant than anything, Because
now if you were pulling pitcheslike the guys do now to make
pitches look better, you wouldhit all 160 at the plate once

(11:10):
you get up there yeah becausethe umpires would tell you you
do that again.
Okay, every pitch is going to bea ball that you do that and
when you get up to the plate,it's.
It's not going to be 17 inches,it's going, going to be more
like 27 inches oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
They're not wild, they won't try about it.
I got that as a rookie, did youreally?

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
My first start.
I got four Ks.
I struck out on the first threestrikeouts.
I couldn't have hit the ballwith a boat paddle.
There's no shot.
He's exactly right.
In your day you talk about theguys in Atlanta and stuff like
that.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
You couldn't hit those guys in a 32 inch play
Okay, so so the relationshipwith the catcher and the umpire
was almost more important thanall the framing stuff.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
Um, much more.
So.
I mean and it was, it was.
I mean I'd like to every pitchto make it look good.
That was close, but what I'mseeing now is some pitches that
aren't that close.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
They're trying to make it look good and it looks
silly.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
I mean to me it looks very silly to try to manipulate
a pitch that's six inches offto make it look like a strike.
Did it back in my day?
I mean, you might even have anumpire come around in front of
home plate, dust it off and giveyou the dickens You're like.
I don't know if anybody knowswhat the dickens are, oh yeah
you're like I don't know ifanybody knows what the dick is.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Well, you get your ass chewed out.
That's like a little boy yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
So it was like, okay, I will not do that and that was
a big part of catching back inthe day.
It was, you know what keep theball in front of you at all
costs, okay, and if you can makeit look good, you do, but
you've got to catch the ball andkeep it in front of you.
That was a big thing back then.
Who's?

Speaker 2 (12:45):
And if you can make it look good, you do, but you've
got to catch the ball and keepit in front of you.
That was a big thing back then.
Who's your favorite?
Ump and your least favorite umpBecause you can say this now
Statue of limitations.
Now you can go ahead and spillthe beans and he used to look.
That used to be the first thinghe looked at.
Who's umpire today?
Everybody used to do that plateumpire was Well, yeah, normally

(13:07):
, you know, if you had you know.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
First game of the series.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, who do we have?
Yeah, what's the crew?

Speaker 1 (13:13):
And then I always liked catching for a pitcher's
umpire.
Yeah, because for me, those youknow 36, 40 at-bats where you
know 36, 40 at bats where youknow I liked it Calling strikes
versus at the plate.
You know maybe four at batswhere I had to have a big zone
and I had a big bat.
I had a 35-inch bat.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
You also swung a big bat too.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Yeah, okay, hold my cutter that almost went over his
head by the way, which is rare.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
He's not used to hearing that value you're using
doesn't take it very well.
That's not a big thing goingover my head.
I'm short, but knowing that Ialways preferred a pitcher's
umpire.
It was much more difficult andI always maintained no matter
what league you're in, if youcall more strikes than balls,

(14:09):
you'll have less trouble withplayers and umpires and fans,
that's well said.
Yeah, because you know what,when you call strikes, the game
moves.
Kids swing the bats, moreEverything about it is good.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
That's why I hate the automated system, because it's
going to be a lot more ballsyeah, the bats more.
Everything about it is good.
That's why I hate the automatedsystem, because it's going to
be a lot more balls.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, the automated system.
I don't know how they can do it, because I mean, everything is
flawed.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
They won't.
It's not going to be full-timeautomated.
It's going to be a challengesystem, but it's going to be
interesting.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
Did you hear the story about Jason DeLay?
No, you'll love this.
Six times in a row Challenge,one in a game.
So he did six in a game and oneeach challenge.
One, each challenge Six times.
Each call was our turn.
The umpire goes will you pleasenot do that again Because you
got to think.
I mean, you think about thatsphincter Spanky.
It may be like this and it'slike uh-oh, uh-oh, been at one

(15:05):
point.
But like, going back to hispoint and I think the umpires
and the relationship, I thinkthe automated system, when it
came about for them to getjudged, you know, so they
started getting graded.
That was when I was in andthat's when it changed, and it
changed everything.
I went from a top 10 receiverto the bottom 10 in a heartbeat,
so you really had no choice tochange.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, the uh the back of the day, you know the
umpires weren't, you know,graded like they are now.
Yeah, and you kind of couldpolice the game.
Yeah, you know the way youneeded to.
If one of the hitters was alittle mouthy, you get a little
tap.
Move a little further outsidewould you play into?
that, oh, absolutely.

(15:41):
Oh, my gosh.
I mean Runge.
He was a very, very good umpire.
You knew if someone was on hisbad side.
He'd tell you beforehand,really, and Donnie was a veteran

(16:01):
guy so he knew what was goingon.
So I line up about three inchesoutside and Paul goes further.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
No, way Further.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
By the time he punches the guy out, I'm a foot
outside.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
The next time up the hitter goes.
Paul, I get it.
I'm sorry it won't happen again.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
That's the way it should be right there, I'm sorry
, and now you go back to normal.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Wow, but that's you know.
That's.
You know part of the game andyou know umpires back then were
graded on how they kept the gamegoing.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
You know the flow of the game.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
How they did stuff like that and their
relationships, theirrelationships.
They didn't have a clock, theyhad an umpire speeding up the
game.
You know there's a lot to besaid and I have trouble with the
clock, especially in tightsituations.
You know where you get ayounger kid out on the mound or
a younger catcher.

(16:58):
The game's still too fast.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
It's speeding up and then they throw a pitch they
don't want to throw.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Now you make a mistake, yep, you know.
So that part I don't like.
There's a few abusers likethere is in every sport.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
You know golf.
They put them on the clock, etcetera.
You know what you know.
Take care of the abusers.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Let everybody else play yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Hey.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Well, I love the clock.
I think it's the greatestinvention since the Emancipation
Proclamation and they'relearning, but to his point.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
There was a couple times even Jones brought it up.
The clock sped him up last yearand he threw a pitch he didn't
want to throw.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
And I thought he was hurt.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
I genuinely thought he was hurt because he throws a
ball of his own.
He ends up walking the guy.
We lost one of those games.
So be it, but it sucks when ithappens to your team?

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Sure, of course it does.
Were you truly you know whenthe Pirates got you from the
Cardinals on?
I guess it was April 1st 1986?
87.
87.
87.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
I was watching you, then I was in my crib.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
It was.
I figured that.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
Spanky yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Shit in your pants, like you do now.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, some things don't need tochange.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, Of course the Pirates got Van Slyke and Mike
Dunn, the pitcher, and the TonyPena deal and got Lavallee, as
you mentioned First, four yearsof Pirate, you win the Gold
Glove.
How much hockey you playedgrowing up in Massachusetts.
Did it help you?
You talked about a moment agoabout playing all the sports so

(18:25):
it makes you more athletic.
So in a way that did, butspecifically as a catcher, did
that help you at all?

Speaker 1 (18:28):
I think, if anything, strong legs Okay, you know, I
wasn't a goalie, those guys arenuts.
I mean catching and goalie, twodifferent things.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
You don't want to try ?

Speaker 1 (18:38):
as a goalie the guy in front of you is trying to tip
it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they'retrying to hit it the other way.
Yeah, in baseball, so yeahwe're.
We're much different.
So much wait, we're trying tofoul tip it.
Uh, no, that's what I'm saying.
In hockey, they're trying toredirect it.
So now you've got this puck,yeah that's this wide and then

(18:58):
it's going 100 miles an hour andthey're trying to deflect it,
you know, into your past, you,whatever.
Yeah, you know, we're with us.
They're trying to hit it intoyour pasture or whatever.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
With us.
They're trying to hit it theother way, yeah, which is nice,
completely different.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
But I would say most of playing other sports.
Yes, you develop differentmuscle groups, but you also
develop different mindsets.
A hockey mindset is differentfrom a baseball mindset.
It's different from a soccermindset.
It's different from a footballmindset and I like that idea of

(19:35):
kids playing all these sports,because now you get different
things going on.
In football, you lose yourtemper, you're going to get a
penalty.
And in baseball you lose yourtemper, you're gonna you're
gonna get a penalty.
Um in, in baseball you loseyour temper, you're you're
worthless.
Golf, you're worthless.
The only thing I loved abouthockey I could lose my temper
and still be good yeah, theywant you to lose your temper.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Some things never change.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
I, I love the mindset .
Mindset thought Brownie right,Because even in the broadcast
you have to have a differentmindset there, because I'm a guy
that gets sped up and I have tolearn how to slow down.
Same thing I had in the game,but that mindset is a game
changer.
I think that's the separator tostay in the big leagues, don't
you think it really is?

Speaker 1 (20:25):
And that's like I said, it comes from different
types of competition.
Once you get involved and yousign your first professional
contract, then it's a matter ofreally refining how you react to
the game.
And once you get that rightmindset and make the proper
reactions, that's whenever yourathleticism you know is able to

(20:48):
show through.
Instead of thinking so much,it's natural, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
I'm going to ask both of you guys, because you've
seen a lot of games Like when doyou see that manifest in guys
in my leagues?
Because obviously it's going alot faster for guys now.
We saw Prodigies get to the bigleagues leagues earlier, but
like now they're rushing to thebig leagues.
And we saw last year jacksonholiday they brought him down.
That was brilliant.
Came back different cat.
But like when or what do youguys look for?

(21:14):
Like you in the booth you'vebeen in the booth too but like
what are you guys looking forwhen you're watching a guy and
say something's shifting and howlong maybe does it take?
Because I feel like I needed tofail more and I would have been
better served at points being atriple a, getting some
understanding of who I am andthen coming back with a
different mindset.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
I mean, for me it's it was a looking at a quiet um
confident pace everythingstarted to slow down, so
basically, yeah, it's where you,where you're not so anxious and
you can tell a hitter when he'sanxious he is committing too
soon.
We're a guy once he slowseverything down and then you've

(21:53):
got that confidence that I cantake this pitch and still be
able to produce.
Versus when you're younger it'slike, well, I just missed my
cookie, now I'm done.
Yeah, panic.
I think that's a big part of it.
And a lot of guys you can readtheir faces and you can see
their eyes.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Well, you can see it after and at bat Boy.
You can see them go back to thedugout and just see it.
They say the deer in theheadlight look, but you can
absolutely see it.
It's amazing how these guysthat struggle as young guys it
does feel like it is 0-2immediately when they get to the
plate.
It's an old cliche again, butthey are behind in the count all
the time.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Well, you know, and back in the day, you know your
premium home run hitters.
Rob Deere would strike out 100times.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah, now everybody does.
Yeah, you know.
So that part's a little bitdifferent.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, and it's a lot does.
Yeah, you know.
So that part I think that's alittle bit different.
Yeah, and it's a lot different.
You know where you.
You know you don't see as muchas the two-strike approach now
and that's the emphasis backwhen I played, which is a
different um emphasis and you'recompensated differently than
when we were back then.
So that part I understand.
You know you're going to getpaid, get the ball out of the
ballpark and you're not going tobe kind of penalized for

(23:12):
striking out so we're back inthe day If you struck out too
much and you didn't have any popyou're gone, but you really
don't get rewarded for being aguy that moves.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
When he was with the Pirates, a J-Bell type.
Not much of a reward for thattype of baseball player these
days, unless you're on a greatteam.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
We had a cool conversation the other day about
10 more points on the battingaverage.
You think about the on-basepercentage.
It puts us in a better categorywhen it comes to offense, right
?
Just 10 more points on ourbatting average overall.
How do you balance that?
Because that's the one thingthat's so hard to watch is there
is guys chasing the arbitrationnumber.
Right, If they have five morehome runs, that may be $200,000,
$300,000.
I mean, it's not a little bitof money.

(23:50):
So how do you balance it out?
Because if they maybe get fivemore hits instead of 10 more
strikeouts, that's a big deal.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Yeah, it really is, and that's what's driving a lot
of what we see on offense now isthat paycheck that money and
you know what?

Speaker 3 (24:04):
But to win you've got to do both yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
And you know it.
Just you know that's one of thethings Clint, when he was
manager here, I would help inspring training and I saw
situational heading I saw noneof it and I was absolutely
flabbergasted.
Yeah, you know your big guyswere a lot of pop.
You don't expect them to.
You know, roll the ball over.
You know, hit the ball secondbase, then move a runner.

(24:32):
But you expected your littleguys to be able to do that and
now you don't see that.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Well, it's interesting, though Spanky, in
that you're now hearing guyslike Andrew McCutcheon quoted
the other day.
Pirate Fest said it, and it'snot a great secret the only way
a team like the Pirates can winis to have players like that.
Now you need some guys likeCruz to hit the ball in the
ballpark, otherwise you bettermove guys Well, you know, and

(24:58):
PNC, I wouldn't call it a homerun.
It's paradise, especially for arighty, that's gigantic.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
And left and center is gigantic.
I mean, right field looksfairly reachable but it's not
like some of these other littleband boxes.
And you go back to the dayswhenever I played with and
against the Cardinals.
St Louis Bush Stadium was avery big ballpark and they had
their team.
It was made of defense andspeed and they hit the ball on

(25:31):
the ground, beat it out, stolebases and they were custom built
for that ballpark.
Where something you know.
I'd like to see that a littlebit more in the game.
Yeah, we were talking about thegrass.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
We have some of the slowest grass in all baseball,
it's kentucky bluegrass and it'sthick.
And I I said I wish they wouldchange it and they've been
looking into it about changingto permuta.
But yeah, to your point.
Then you think about thepitching, you think about the
defense.
I, I kid you not, I bet if itwent to permuta it's 10 points
of the batting averageimmediately, because that's how
much faster it is.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Well, that's uh back in the day at jack murphy
stadium.
You know that that was a veryfast track.
Um, you'd go to uh and I didthis a wrigley field especially
early in the season the grass islike six inches thick and it'd
be wet, and so in battingpractice I went, put a ball down
behind the pitcher's mound andput a little grass on top of it.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
I remember you did this.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
And didn't tell anybody no, I didn't.
And so I go out about the fourthor fifth inning and I go and
Frank Pulley is the second placeumpire.
I go, frank, could you pick upthat ball right there?
And he looks at me and goes,what are you doing?
I go there's a ball there, andtell him to cut the grass, you
know, because I mean youcouldn't hit the ball, you threw

(26:50):
that grass.
And sure enough, he comes overand picks it up.
And I go see, you know, just Idid that, I mean it, just you
know something to you know, toprove a point, I mean and this
is nothing against Ryan Sandberg, but Ryan Sandberg at Wrigley
Field was a much better defenderthan he was.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, I think slower right, slowed him down, slowed
the ball down, he got to theball.
Quite the range you know, buthey again you know it's Tailored
to that team, though Exactly.
Yeah, Going to help my secondbaseman.
That was the ballpark.
That's the way it goes.
What's your favorite ballpark,by the way?
I?

Speaker 1 (27:28):
loved Wrigley.
I really loved Wrigley.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Just the atmosphere, yeah, everything about it, you
know it was the day games Backin our day.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
you only knew what day it was.
It was Sunday because it was aday game yeah, everything else
yeah until you went to wrigleyand then you don't know what day
it was yeah, then you had someday games, yeah, and I mean that
was just kind of cool.
You'd see people of all types,you'd get suits.
Yeah, you know, coat and tie,come in, rip off the tie, grab a

(28:03):
, an old style yeah, chug it, goto work.
Hot dog mustard all over your,your nice, um, uh, pressed um
button up shirt.
Yeah, I mean to me that wasjust cool as could be, yeah.
And then you had the otherfolks that were just regular
folks just coming out to see aball game in the afternoon.
Loyal, loyal, yeah, very, andand just the atmosphere was

(28:23):
fabulous.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
I liked Kingdom Yards back in the day I thought that
they had great atmosphere alsoOne of my favorites.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Baltimore.
Hey, spanky, we love checkingguys.
Major League debuts.
September 9, 1984 in Montreal.
You came in, I think, to catchright in the 10th inning.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, so back in the day at Olympic Stadium the
bullpens were like our bullpenvisit.
Bullpen was beyond right fieldand they had like a nice fishing
house that was the bullpen, andso we had like six different
catchers.
They called me up basically tocatch in the bullpen.

(29:04):
So I was like great, and nowwe've gone through Bo Diaz,
ozzie, virgil John.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Walken.
I should mention that the folksthat don't hit with the
Phillies obviously.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Everybody.
And now they just pinch run forour last catcher.
And I know it is and I go, I'min the game.
And now I start getting reallynervous and the phone rings and
I'm going let's get.
It's the wrong number.
So now it says hey, you knowyou're catching, get in here.

(29:35):
So now you have to run.
And I had to run across theirdugout to get to our dugout.
Okay, and I was shaking like aleaf Wait, wait, you had to run
from right field, oh, like infront of their dugout.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Go get us my game.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
And I I I get timed against a turtle and lost Okay.
So it took a long time for meto get to the dugout.
So I get there and and I'm I'mshaky a little bit.
This is my debut and jerry,that's unbelievable.
And jerry kuzman comes over andhe's helping me put my shin
guard no way, no.
And then with the phillies, andhe goes kid you'll be okay,

(30:15):
you'll be okay were you shaky alittle bit I was really shaky
you know, once I got to thefield I was okay, but the lead
up to that it was just likewhat's the deal?
I started out the year in 1984in double a as a backup catcher,
so this was a fast track hugething for me what was it like?

Speaker 2 (30:36):
who was the pitcher, by the way?

Speaker 1 (30:37):
yeah oh, larry anderson, oh my god, larry
anderson.
All he threw was sliders and Iwasn't quite sure, you know,
hadn't seen that much of reallyany of those guys.
And so I put down a one.
He shook his head Slider, yeah,one, no Slider.
So I just put down slider andhe'd be back door.

(31:00):
He'd use both sides and I justsaid, well, there's no need for
a one or a two, it's just slider, slider, slider, slider, and he
gets out of the inning.
We won the ballgame, so I camein catching for the save, so you
got your first save.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
That's right.
Yeah, good for you.
Didn't you get in a bat thatday too?
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (31:21):
I was a little excited Back then I was a Pole
hitter with no power, thatdidn't go.
Dick Rapafee Was a sinkerballer, and he throws me a
little sinker outside and Ipolitely hit a 42 hopper to the
second baseman and I'm notbeating him.
You were trying to hit it inthe seats though.
Oh hell yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
I go up there.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Now batting like.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
La Vallee.
Oh, that's right, Of courseyou're in Montreal.
It's perfect.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
I didn't even thought about that, and now I'm going
to make a huge splash.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
You were like 5'11 at that point.
The fans in Montreal love thathe's batting.
Mike is a bat, yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
I get up to the plate and my spikes never touched the
.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
AstroTurf and get in there.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
And no game plan, no, nothing, it was just like I'm
just going to knock the piss outof this.
Wait, did you guys?

Speaker 3 (32:15):
really wear spikes in the AstroTurf.
Oh yeah, oh, no wonder you guyshad so many problems?

Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, I've got two replacement knees.
Yeah, yeah, I've got tworeplaced knees.
Yeah, yeah, but you know what?
Ouch, I love hitting on it.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
But taking the toll on your body, backs, knees yeah,
because they just threw carpetdown over cement Pretty much.
Yeah, yeah, it was Montreal wasan older place too, and it was
cold.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
I heard everybody I've ever talked to that I
didn't get to play montreal.
They loved it like they lovethe city, they love the town.
It makes me wonder why baseballis not there anymore, because I
know that they would support itthe fans at that time I don't
think appreciated.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
The game makes sense, you know and hockey is a much
different game to watch.
Yeah um, I had a chance to goto the Forum in Montreal A huge
event Saturday everybody coatand tie the women dressed in the
nines.
This is an event where thebaseball you'd have 5,000 people

(33:16):
in an 80,000-.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
When they were winning.
They were one of the best teamsin the early 90s.
For me they had the best teamsin the early 90s.
They had great teams From Martyand Dawson, I mean for me.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
They had the best scouting system that I ever saw
while I was playing.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Yeah, some of the names if you drop some of the
names in the early 90s.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Raines, Raines and Dawson, and I mean the pitching
staff that they had, I mean itwas absolutely fabulous.
They had a very, very good team.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
How about your first big league start about 12 days
later.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Do you remember?
Let's find the whole thing out.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Do you know where you were?

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, we were at the vet.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
No, no, of all places , three River Stadium, we were
in Three River Stadium.
Man Wow, and your first hit isoff of.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
Rick Roden.
Yeah, yeah, so I get the ballback and they can't even write
on it because there's so manyscuff marks.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Oh, because of Roden, and tack marks.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
They had to use a different ball.
So the ball I have at home formy first hit isn't the real ball
?
Of course not, I couldn't evenwrite on it.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
Tricky Ricky, Did you keep it though?

Speaker 1 (34:27):
You have that ball.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I still have it Looks like the
Sandlot ball.
Oh yeah, Just messed up.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, it's just like you know.
It looks like you know.
If you give your kids a balland they go play back, that's
what it looked like.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Did you end up catching him at all later?
No, you never did no.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Tricky was gone by the time I got to Tricky.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
So that's 84.
And now in April again April1st 1987, you're traded to the
Pirates.
But you had been traded fromthe Phillies to the Cardinals in
84, right.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, in the winter meetings in 84.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
And what was that like?

Speaker 1 (35:06):
And this was a mess because I had a very, very good
year.
I said I started off the yearas the backup in AA got off to a
very good start.
Aaron Dalton was in AAA.
He got hurt.
They called me up rather thanthe number one guy because he
was just not doing very well,that's the one event.
And then I get to AAA.

(35:28):
First time I got a chance toplay every day.
I ended up hitting like 320.
I had like five or six homersthis is in a month and a half
and I never hit many home runsand the Cardinals, liked what
they saw, made the trade.
I ended up having knee surgeryjust a little slight tear of the

(35:50):
meniscus and it was outpatient.
I went in, got it done, leftthat day and two days later
Bruce Suter signed with theBraves.
So I get traded for Jeff Lottie.
That was two right-handers outof their bullpen, and so now we
can't do the trade.
So I called it off becauseLottie was going to be their

(36:13):
closer, so they called off thetrade.
And once they called off thetrade, the Phillies had already
filled my spot on the roster.
So I became a free agent and theCardinals wanted me anyway.
So I ended up signing with theCardinals.
Made a little extra money on it, man.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
And you see, now you play for Whitey.
Yeah, what was that like?

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Whitey was extremely.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Tough, brilliant, oh, brilliant, brilliant as a field
general oh yeah, explain thatdeeper.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
I want to hear more about it.
You're talking about a guy thatwas three innings ahead of
everybody.
You know he handled hispitching staff, all of his you
know moves that he made.
It was just every time it wasbrilliant.
He was not what you'd call ayoung guy's manager.

(37:08):
He took care of his veteran guysReally not a whole lot of
interaction with the youngerguys, so it was great to watch
and to learn, but then wheneverI get traded over to Pittsburgh,
but then whenever I get tradedover to Pittsburgh, then I came
across another incredible fieldmanager that was a players

(37:29):
manager.
I was so fortunate to haveback-to-back guys that were just
two of the best.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Later you played for Geno Lamont right, the White Sox
.
How about the pitching staff?
By the way, in 86, were you ateammate with Clint Hurdle in 86
?
Yes, I was.
Isn't that wild?
Yes, I was.
How about it?

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Clint was our utility guy, played first, played the
outfield.
He was our third catcher.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
He played everywhere.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
And yeah, Clint was a little wilder back then.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, yeah, by the time we got him here.
Yeah, clem was a little wilderback then.
Yeah, yeah, by the time we gothim here.
Yeah, yeah, in 84, the pitchingstaff for the Cardinals Bob
Forsh, danny Cox, john Tudor,tim Conroy, the Gateway High
School product, who's a longtimescout, I think, with the Royals
now, todd Worrell was a closer,so that's the other thing too.
You had.
You had some good pitchingstaffs over the years, didn't

(38:24):
you?

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Yeah, the phenomenal, that's because they're catching
.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Well, yeah, I understand, but you always like
to give a nod to the pitchers.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
These were proven guys.
Joaquin Andujar was there alsoand these are good quality,
talented guys that helped mewith my developments.
Calling games of just kind offeeling out what they wanted to
do and paying attention to it.
That helped me out an awful lot.

(38:52):
But that team is pitching.
The defense and the speed werejust incredible, did you?

Speaker 3 (38:57):
I'm sorry.
Go ahead, no Spanky, like whenyou say they helped you kind of
fill out what they wanted to do.
Go a little bit deeper, Becausenow it's complete you talk
about back in the day.
You said that a couple times.
That's one thing I miss.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
I miss guys tearing up their scouting report and
going off field, especially offthat guy that's the one thing
that I, and I still believe tothis day, is that guy on the
mound is a different guy everytime.
He takes them one thousandpercent,000%, and so your
scouting reports the only thingI really ever wanted to know
about the other team.

(39:29):
Okay, yeah, I want to know hisweaknesses, but is he hot or is
he cold?
So if your superstar on theother team was cold, we'd do
different things against himrather than try to get them out
the same way, you know, when hewas on fire.
Now you had to pay a littledifferent attention and, yeah, I

(39:50):
learned that a lot from BobForge and Tudor you know where
they would pitch different guysdifferent ways, depending on
situations and what they've beendoing lately.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
So, in terms of of what you as a catcher, your
priorities and your in your mind, one of the first, most
important things is to know what.
First of all, as a broadcast,yes.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
You notice, the amateur hasn't touched his mic.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you're not supposed toplay with it Anyhow.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Okay, well, you're not supposed to play with it
Anyhow, my name's Mike.
So my question was when youprioritize as a catcher and you
were catching Spanky mostimportant to you was to know
whether guys were hot or cold,first and foremost.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, so much stuff goes into your brain For cold,
first and foremost, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
So much stuff goes into your brain.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
For the opposing team yes, yeah.
But for my pitcher, what has hegot that night?
Because out of 35 starts he'sgoing to have probably 10 starts
where he's got his best stuff.
You don't have to vary too much.
He's going to have 10 startswhere he stinks, where you have
to try to get him.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
That's the hardest working night for a catcher,
right yeah, you're mentallyexhausted.
To get you through it, get himthrough fifth or sixth inning
back in the day.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
That was a job well done for me.
Yeah, and it was the in-between, it was those 15 starts in
between where kind of good stuff, kind of not as bad.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
That's usually when they don't know either.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
And that's where I needed to know and differentiate
that and hopefully know earlyenough in the game to get the
most out of it.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
So you platooned when we were at the Pirates with
Slott and then, I think, ronKarkovice when you were at the
White Sox.
What's that like when it's kindof a dual situation?
Do you try, do you guys bothkind of combine and figure out
how to catch certain pitchers,or do you put your own stamp on
it?
How does that work?

(41:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (41:58):
it was pretty much an individual thing.
I mean, he had the book onhitters.
You know, Donnie knew, you knowthe book, I knew the book.
But how we handled the pitchingstaff was completely different.
It was.
And if you ask the pitchers, youknow it's like oh yes, spanky,
you know, gets me to do this, orDonnie got me to do this.

(42:20):
You know, those are thedifferent things that just make,
make us all different.
Yeah, no doubt.
You know, instead of becomingrobotic and that's to me that's
the worst thing, because I wouldhit off the catchers you know
that would be.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
You know, if I had a catcher, that was just a
blockhead.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
I kind of knew what was coming, huh I wish I would
have knew that more, like a lotof the reds guys did that and
would pay attention to what thecatcher's doing.
Votto cared more about what ifI was catching or if Russell was
catching.
I'll never forget he tapped meon the leg and said today's my
day Never got a hit off me.
It's three years into my careerhe's never got a hit off me.
Votto never got a hit off no hegot a broken back single through

(42:58):
, the yelled at me.
I said you can't get it likethat, you can't get it like that
.
But I took pride in that too,because I always tried to see
who was up there, and especiallythe big guys.
But that's something in mycareer because I didn't think
about that.
I wish I would have paid moreattention, because I mean a lot
of those guys, you know, likehe's talking about blockheads,
they put down what they can'thit, like oh I can't hit the
breaking ball, I'm gonna throwthe breaking ball down.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Yeah, yeah, you know, and, as you know, you know,
especially younger pitchers yeah, you know, it was like you know
, oh, two fastball up and in,and now I'd be diving out over.
You knew what was coming forthat.
One, two pitch.
That's kind of what analyticsare doing now.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
It's making it very predictable.
If you pay attention, you'llsee a guy and you'll know okay,
here comes a heater up, you knowit.
It becomes to where.
That's where his style and Ibelieve, my style like.
I think about the personalityfirst and then kind of rotate
down.
It matters so much more becauseyou will throw a wrinkle and
then that guy's complete gameplan goes out the window.
And it's fun tell me, it's notfun to see that guy's head go.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Oh well, there were certain guys that I would sit on
a certain pitch.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Okay, and try to eliminate that for later on in
the ballgame, Dennis Martinezhad a great curveball okay.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
So my first two at-bats I'd be looking for the
curveball and I would make agood swing at it, and if he
didn't throw it, I'd do my bestwith two strikes.
But I felt good enough about mygame plan that I didn't mind
hitting with two strikes.
But I I felt good enough aboutmy my game plan and I didn't
mind hitting with two strikes.
But if he threw me that hook,okay, I was gonna make a good
pass at it.
Try to eliminate that for lateron in the game, because that's

(44:34):
one of his best pitches try toeliminate it.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
Man, think about that .
Let's just set that game.
You hate to say it, nobody.
I'm sure the guys do that now,but but not as much I know, I
know I again, I hate to well, itI'm sure the guys do that now,
Not as much though I know.
Again, I hate to suggest thatYou've got to balance where.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
I think that's where some of the hitters are lacking.
Now you balance the analyticswith your own brain and what
you're seeing, because your eyesaren't lying to you.
If you let that inside.
Now you can go ahead andbalance that.
You know we didn't have theanalytics.

(45:09):
We didn't have.
You know, all of the uh, thecomputer stuff and and printouts
and stuff.
You know that they have now,which is to me a great advantage
, yeah.
But sometimes the greatadvantage can become your
detriment.
Right when you pay too muchattention, you become robotic.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
So how did you get to the point where you went up and
looked for that good breakingball, like what made you come to
that conclusion?

Speaker 1 (45:32):
It's not easy.
It was always against one ofthe better pitchers.
You know it's like well heck.
You know you're facing Nolan.
I've tried to eliminate hisfastball.
Good luck with that you have tobe realistic about it.
But you know you're betterstarters.
You know I would try.
You know one guy maybe had areal good changeup.

(45:53):
Let's sit on the change, that'snot easy though.
No, it's very hard, and it's tothe point where you said you get
your confidence level up andyour patience level to where
you're comfortable.
Confidence and comfortabilityis a huge thing.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
We've heard that before.
Oh yeah, Mike Berger wastalking about confidence and
momentum.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
That you get that comfortability and then you
become good, and then good turnsinto great.
That's well said.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Spanky.
Did you have an inkling, by theway, of the trade to Pittsburgh
?
It was a three-for-one deal.
Again, it was April 1st.
Everybody thought it was anApril Fool's joke.
It was Tony Pena.
Here you are.
Tony Pena is one of the mostpopular catchers in recent
memory.
He got his first hit throughRivers Of course I know he's
written in stone April Fool'sDay 1987.

(46:44):
It was no joke.
When Tony Pena was traded,pirate fans had lost one of
their favorite players, and theyknew little about Andy Van
Slyke and even less about MikeLaValliere and Mike Dunn, but by
season's end they would knowplenty.
He may not have been thebiggest name in the deal, but

(47:05):
his stocky build reminded piratefans of a famous buck backstop
named Smokey Burgess, mikeSpanky LaValliere earned a name
for himself in 87 as he quietlyhit 300 while catching in over
100 games.
His lightning-quick releasecaught many would-be

(47:35):
base-dealers dead in theirtracks, as LaValliere earned
himself a 1987 Gold Glove Award.
Well, let's just say Did youhave an inkling that was coming?
No, no idea, no idea.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Whatsoever.
We had a B game that morningand Steve Lake was the other
catcher with the Cardinals andSteve Lake caught all nine
innings.
This is the end of springtraining.
There's only two catchers.
He caught all nine innings.
So I'm out getting ready forthe a game at l lang stadium me
and andy and we're going throughyou know our running and

(48:10):
getting ready and dave rickettscomes in and says how many days
come on?

Speaker 2 (48:15):
you're not playing.
How many days before theregular season is this?

Speaker 1 (48:18):
like three or four okay, yeah so uh, hello, he goes
, you're not playing and I go.
What?

Speaker 2 (48:23):
do you?

Speaker 1 (48:24):
mean, I'm who's catching laker?
Well, you know what?

Speaker 2 (48:27):
nobody's catching the doubleheader right, yeah,
especially in spring training.
Yeah, now it's okay.
So now, andy and I, weresitting in the dugout that's
like, and we're going all right,we're traded.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
But okay, well, there's only two places where we
don't want to go.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
We don't want to go to Montreal because of the whole
thing up there, or Pittsburgh,what?
No way, I have to admit it.
I mean, they had just lost 100games, three or four seasons in
a row.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Getting over the drug trials.

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah, all of this stuff.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
There's a lot of you know, and you're leaving an
absolute fabulous organizationwith the Cardinals, and then you
know, get called into theoffice, been traded to the
pirates, you know, and it's justlike you want to talk about
someone killing your pet snake.
Oh boy, I was just like youwould say pet snake, not your
little dog.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Pet snake, yeah, not your little dog.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Yeah, pet snake, yeah .
So it was just like, well youknow, and then you know.
So the next day, me and Andygot to make a good impression,
and so we leave St Peter early,right.
There's an accident on theSkyway.
We got no cell phones, we can'tcall, we can't tell.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
So we come moseying in you're trying to get to
bradenton, which is just overthe skyway bridge, so so we're
so we're um.
We come moseying in about 11,30 just you and vance like right
, and I'm sure, I'm sureeverybody's going.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Look at these two prima donna assholes, yeah, you
know coming in when they want,right, well, you know, leland
comes right over.
Yeah, you say you know, hey, wewere, you know, glad to have
you.
We really wanted you, you knowyou want.
You want number 10.
That was your number with thephillies and carters number 10
and I look at I go that's yournumber.

(50:19):
He goes no, no, you can have it.
So now I'm going is this guynuts or is this a test?
So I'm not going to take themanager's number.
So what are you crazy?
Yeah, it says no, no, no, I'llget another number.
It's just a number.
Yeah, yeah, and, but that wasmy first interaction with what
do?

Speaker 2 (50:39):
you think what?
Was it just a test?
Do you think?
What?
Do you think?
I don't know you ever, you evertalked to him about it?

Speaker 1 (50:43):
no, I'd love to ask him no, yeah, I would too.
That'd be a great.
I think he didn't.
I think it was genuine, I do heprobably did.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
It was just it was only a second year going into a
second year as a big leaguemanager and and so so you know,
obviously don't have any blackand gold, I've got red spikes.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
So hooli or um clubhouse guy at the time and
nobody had my size.
You know I had size.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
You know, 4f, you know it's 10 feet 4F, is that
German?

Speaker 1 (51:16):
So nobody's got my and I'm not going to wear the
rest.
Go to local Little League folks.
So Hooli takes like a four-inchbrush and house paint and
paints my spikes black.
That's awesome, right, wow.
And so now the laces are allgooey and I'm tightening my
shoes.
I got paint all over my spikesand about the third inning it

(51:38):
all wears off anyway.
But it was like yeah, welcometo Pittsburgh.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Are you in right away , that the next day?
You guys know that yeah thatgame I was like the next day
yeah, started that.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
I love that they were driving across the skyway.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
It's like lavalier and they're in the walk of the
clubhouse and they're in thegame did you love that, though,
oh yeah, yeah, like I think it's.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
I think it's a statement.
I really do so.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
yeah, what was, what was it like, though, to replace
a guy like Tony Pena?
I mean, let's know secret howpopular he was, so was he a part
of that trade?

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Yeah yeah, Tony was the main guy.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
He was the main part of the trade.
He was the main guy, yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Whitey got him mostly for the offense and that he
didn't have to pinch run for him.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
He always had to pinch run for for me, so that
was.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Whitey's thought process.
I did talk to Whitey about thatlater.
He says your defense was fine.
Nothing went wrong with that.
But offensively I thought wewere a better ball club.
When we got a faster catcher ithad maybe a little bit more pop
.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
But coming to Pittsburgh and I got to ask that
how are you going to replaceTome?

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Nobody's going to replace him.
I'm me.
I'm going to be me.
I'm going to do my best.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Well, let me ask you though Did you know how popular
he was in Pittsburgh?
Oh yeah, even before you gothim, oh yeah.
I mean he was forever.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
He was the only representative to the All-Star
team yeah, yeah.
You, you know whatever,speaking of a guy that's talking
about yeah, there's a knee down.
Yeah, well, I'll tell you thishe and benito santiago had their
knees down, except when peopleare on base, or if there was two
strikes, then they were inconventional okay catching mode,

(53:17):
but everybody goes.
Well, they caught with one kneedown?

Speaker 2 (53:20):
yes, they did, but only with, uh, you know, with
less than two strikes and withuh, without anybody on base.
So you, know, but that's uh,that's a compromise, that's,
that's a good one I like thatcompromise.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
There's guys doing that.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Now you know what that isn't that that to me makes
a little more sense.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
That to me isn't a bad thing yeah, you know, as
long as you're not developingbad habits with you receiving
and I've got no issues with it.
I was always comfortable justdoing what I did 100%.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
You know, so I wasn't ever comfortable on one knee.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
I didn't get comfortable to one knee until I
was like 52 years old in fantasycamp.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
When I couldn't get it to my regular stance yeah
let's just sit down here when Icouldn't get it to my regular
stand.
So how quickly did you find outthat you became because I think
it was pretty quick really afolk hero in Pittsburgh?
It did not take long, withoutdisrespecting Tony Pena, for
them to forget him and fall inlove with Mike Spanky.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
LaValliere.
Well, you know what I think,just my work ethic.
Yeah, I had to play 100 ballsto the wall every game because I
always felt that I was theleast talented guy physically at
the ballpark that day on thefield so I mindset or did you

(54:41):
really believe that?
and I and I I believed that yeahI wasn't as talented, but I
also thought that that was anadvantage that people wouldn't
look at me like, oh gee, whiz, Ineed to bear down.
I thought that was an advantageand I played that as an
advantage they also loved yourpersonality though and it's easy
.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Reporters and stuff.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
You're good to me because you know what?

Speaker 2 (55:03):
I'm a you're a people person, I'm a carry a lunch
pail kind of guy yeah, yeah, youknow I'm a bearish shot guy.
I mean, that's why you're madefor Pittsburgh.
That's what Pittsburgh was allabout.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
You know.
So that was you know, somethingthat you know.
If there was a match made me togo to Pittsburgh, you think
about the most popular catchersover the several decades?

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Smokey Smokey Burgess , sangy Manny Sangy and Spanky
Smokey Sangy Spanky Three of themost popular catchers in the
history of the Pirates Like achevelle of catchers.

Speaker 3 (55:37):
Sss.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
You go there in 1987.
Your first full year of thePirates.
You win a gold glove.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Well, I'll tell you this and not too many people
remember this, but I obviouslydo my first throw is the second
game of the season.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
John Tudor started for the Cardinals, so Junior
Ortiz started Of all things,you're playing against the
Cardinals, right?
How wild is that?

Speaker 1 (56:02):
The second game Danny Cox is throwing for them.
I know, danny, I caught him, soI'm playing.
Bob kipper walks vince colemanto lead off the game now I'm
going off vince coleman I'veseen vince wreak havoc right so
kip just barely moves.
There goes vince.
I catch the ball and, and he'svince is almost already like

(56:25):
dusting himself off and I go andI'm gonna hold the ball and my
arm just doesn't stop.
The ball comes out of my handand it goes, lands on the back
of the mound and rolls on theturf and doesn't make second
base.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Get out of here.
That was my first throw.
That was my first throw as apirate.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
You think I heard any boos oh.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
We got you for banging it.
Oh no, Are you kidding?

Speaker 1 (56:58):
me.
He doesn't want to go, and so Iend up.
Yeah, so it's not how you start, it's how you finish.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Wow, that's wild.
Yeah, your first throw.
I didn't realize that.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Oh god, you want to talk about, you know, wanting to
have a shovel and dig a holeand jump in right there, my gosh
, oh and I don't, I don't thinkI don't think I took my mask off
.
Uh, even my first at bat.
I'm so embarrassed.
I think I went up to the platewith my mask unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
So that's 87.
Uh, you mentioned kipper, brianfisher, big daddy rick russell,
doug drabick, part of thatstaff, mike dunn, who was part
of that trade, you and lavalieryou.
And uh, vance like and dunn waslike the sporting news rookie
of the year that year too.
And then jim got your closer 88.
Talk about that 88 year.
Well, when did it happen?

(57:49):
What?
88, we kind of like it's just abad luck well, you know what?

Speaker 1 (57:56):
the, the mets were fabulous.
Yeah, I mean we really weren'tas good as them.
And, um, you know we, you knowwe played good brand of baseball
, played good defense, we threwstrikes, we did a lot of good
things, but we didn't have the,the, the horses to win that race
.
The, the, the mets were stilltoo good and they, they had

(58:17):
everything you know they just,they were just that good, um,
but we got a taste of what it'sgoing to take to be good and
that was something that you know, jumping off, we had a lot of
after that season going into 89.
A lot of hope, a promise ofokay.
Now we've been together a fewyears here, you know we're going

(58:40):
to contend this year.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
And then we all got hurt.
Who was the first that got hurt?
Was you?

Speaker 1 (58:44):
I think it was Sid.
Was that Sid?
Sid got hurt first.
This is 89 or 89?
89.
It's all the hope going into 89.
Sid getting hurt for the firstcouple weeks and then not long
after you get out, yeah.
Sid and I had surgery the sameday at Passavant Hospital.
Same day.

(59:07):
Well, yeah, I went up to visithim he was.
He didn't take to the anesthesiaas good as me, because um I'm
pretty good at it, so, but uh,so so I went to try to pop him
up a little bit, and and uh, Iended up missing a little over
three months.
And then andy hurt what wasyour surgery I had a torn ACL
and partially torn MCL Threemonths.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Who was it?
Who was it?
He wasn't at the plate, it wasRex Hudler.
That's right, and to this day,if I see him, I'll kill him.
So you think it was a dirtyplay?
It was a dirty play.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, he came in diving knees to knees.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
It was not a slide.
Did he hit you on the side?
It was a takeout.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
No, hit me straight.
I was in perfect position.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
So that's why they hit you on the side.
Hit me straight.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
And it went down and my knee was like this.
So the bottom of my knee wastouching the ground.
That's not good.
If you're wondering, yeah, thebottom of my back of my knee was
touching the ground and I wasstill up.
So yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
What was the play Spanky?
What was the play?
Describe what happened Hudlersat second.
Where was the hit?
They said I think it might havebeen to Andy To.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Andy and center, threw it home.
I catch it.
Go to make.
The tag Takes out my knee.
Gosh, is it like bang, bang,yeah and um it?
It ticked me off because theumpire called them safe and
usually, if there's contact athome plate at all, you know your
catcher's going to get thebenefit of the doubt.
Yeah, and jim quick was theumpire and I told him about that

(01:00:38):
afterwards I said you know whatevery ball in the dirt, I will
get out of the way and you willwear that.
Just because of that play, Iwas pissed.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Well, so now you come back, come back, and now it's
90.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
In record time by the way yeah an unbelievable
recovery and then 90,.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Do you guys go into spring training and think we got
a really good shot here?
Absolutely, you do.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Yeah, I mean, it was basically a continuation, file
89,.
You know, it was just too manyinjuries for us to contend
Couldn't overcome, yeah.
And then it was just like youknow, 90?
All right, we're here.
You know, made a couple more,sid and Leland made a couple
more acquisitions and that'slike you know, filled a couple

(01:01:20):
holes.
And then it was like you knowwhat, we got a good ball club
here, filled a couple holes andthen it was like you know what,
we got a good ball club here andjust seeing 24 run out to left
field every night made us abetter team.
That was special, huh.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Greatest player you ever saw.
The best player ever.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Yeah, yeah, none bar none.

Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
From the gate, From the gate right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Yeah, just unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
It's a shame that what's taking place.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
You know, should it be in the Hall of Fame?
Hey, you know what, ifeverybody in the Hall of Fame
was milking cookies, okay, thenI'd say he doesn't belong
there's a lot of guys in theHall of Fame that were, you know
, red juice and amphetamines inorder to take the field.
You know what's a performanceenhancing drug, so you know what
Barry didn't help himself beingas caustic as he was to

(01:02:12):
everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
I did a lot of crossword puzzles.
Just before doing the show.
He did that To bone up.
I've got it here on my phone.
So, spanky, which is the bestof the three-division title
teams?
90-91-92?

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
um I want to say 91.
We were probably why?
Why best team?
Uh, we had a taste in 90 and Ithink we're a little strong.
I like that word, he uses tasteget the taste?

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
yeah, because, you get that taste, you want more.
You know it's like eating alazy potato chip you can't just
have one yeah, yeah yeah, Ithink, I think uh, 91.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
I think we're overall a better ball club did, but uh,
you know you run into the Reds,you know, and you know, it's
just that team was stacked.
And the Braves.
I mean you get the Braves andthe Reds and you know everybody
was, you know they were,everybody was good.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
In the NLCS in 92, when Waukee pitches that
complete game and you're goingdown to Atlanta but still down.
Do you guys confident at thatpoint?

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Yeah, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Because it's almost like you're unstoppable Until.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Randy March called Sid safe.
I knew we were going to win.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
He was safe, wasn't he?
No, really, do you think ifreplay?

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Whenever I do games for ESPN, he was 100%.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Have you broken it down Like Zabruder, filmed it
and looked at.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
There wasn't enough angles.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
It would be inconclusive.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
I had my tech guys with ESPN look at it and it's
inconclusive.
But when you bend leg slide,your front foot is up in the air
.
Because if it's down, you'regoing to catch a spike.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
And break your ankle.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Sid says he's safe.
Umpire said he's safe.
That's what the call was.
But I still believe that I gotthat back leg before.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
It was an unbelievable attempt I was able
to actually he's a big guy.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
It was a heck of a play by LaVallia too.
He's leaning back.
That leg's going to go up.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
What's really weird about sports, and baseball in
particular?
When guys make great plays,unless the out is called, it's
like forgotten 100, but the playis.
It's an unbelievable catch andtag by lavalier.
What do you think about thethrow from bonds?
He gets criticized so much forit, bar.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Barry never possessed a great arm.
Yeah, you know if there was anything to his game that wasn't
as good as everything else.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
It was his arm.
It was okay.
It was a very average arm.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
So you know and everybody likes to put the blame
on Barry there's a lot ofthings in that ballgame that we
could have added on a run here arun there.
Everybody looks at that oneplay because that was the end.
But we had chances earlier inthat ballgame to win the game

(01:05:07):
back then you can win games inthe third and fourth inning it's
not always the ninth.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
It's really unfair to put the blame on Stan or Barry
or anybody, Because Melinda wasthrowing some strikes that
weren't being called right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
Well, I had some issues with Randy Marsh.
Were you saying stuff to Marsh,by the way?
Yeah, I was All polite, though,right, let's say I wasn't as
polite.
I wasn't one of those guys thatwould bury an umpire.
Yeah, yeah I was.
I was, but in the heat of themoment of that you know it's a
randy that's a strike, you know,and I may have had a adjective

(01:05:44):
or two, um, you know, besidesthat, um, it was a combination
of a number of things that wentwrong.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
yeah, and and it just .

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
You know, now you can look back.
It's like it wasn't meant to be, but you know what it's.
Just I don't know if anythingcould have been changed or if
anybody would have changedanything.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
You know it.
Just it didn't work.
How tough was the clubhouseafterward?

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
Oh, I was literally crying.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
You can hear the tears.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
I don't pretend the care level was at high.
Oh my gosh, it was unbelievablethe devastation.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
I don't pretend, the whole city shrunk To ever have
been in that position.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
But if anybody's seen Saving Private Ryan at the end,
whenever the tank is shooting,everything and everything goes
quiet and he can't hear anything.
That's what it felt like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
It was a that's silent.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
It was a numbing feeling of wow, I can't believe
this.
That's it.
Yeah, it was.
It was surreal, it really was.
It was uh, yeah, I didn't getpissed off until after.
I was so numb to start with.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
And it just was.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
I didn't watch the replay, for I want to say a good
15 years, Really Wow.
It was the lowest point of mycareer.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
And then how about 93 ?
How hard was that?
I mean, I know, it didn't endwell.
Well, you know what?
And then how about 93?
How?

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
hard, was that?
Yeah, it was very hard.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
I mean, I know it was , it didn't end well.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Well you know what being released on Easter Sunday.
No, yeah, it's a little bit.
You know, they were sending amessage, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
I was the player rep and I didn't have too many good
things to say.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Ted Simmons was the general manager Because 93 is
right before it all kicked off,right when it was all kicking
off 93?
.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Yeah, with the strike and everything.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
It was 94.
94 was the strike.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
But there was rumbling going on.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
A lot of it was.
You guys were very outspoken.
We had lost, you know, Bonokenwe had lost.
Bonilla.
We had lost Bonds, we werelosing guys and they were
misrepresenting their offers inpublic.
To Doug Drabeck Dougie and Ihave been great friends.
We've got to talk about therelationship and so Dougie and I

(01:08:09):
have been great friends.
So I knew every little bit ofthat negotiations and what the
pirates management was saying tothe public was nowhere near
what they were offering him.
And Dougie was.
He's much more of aprofessional than I am and I'm
sticking up for my picture, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
I says you know, this is crap You're, you're giving
this guy a bad name.
You know this guy wants nothingmore than to stay here.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
And you're not even coming close.
You're making it look like hewants so much money.
Yeah, that he's greedy and hedoesn't want to be in.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
Pittsburgh, and that's not fair and that puts a
huge divide in that clubhouse,yeah Between front office.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
So I was outspoken about it and I believe
ultimately that's why theyreleased me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:54):
Well, something happened because they ended up
paying the balance of thatcontract too.
So I mean, obviously there wassomething about that.
It was a message.
What do you mean?
The balance of?

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
the contract.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
I mean, I had signed a three-year deal and I played
one year on that deal and theyreleased you.
And then the last two years,know they?

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
they basically, uh, ate it yeah, they're definitely,
yeah, yeah, definitely.
So that was you know and youknow it was.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
It was very difficult , yeah, you know, because you
know I not only you know lovethe organization, you know, but
the city and you know, really Iwanted to end my career as a
pirate you know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
So it was very, very difficult um, I was I mean just
ripped at at ted simon at tedyeah, and and uh I saw him about
two years ago, three years agoat cardinal fantasy camp, had
you spoken, and I hadn't talkedto him since no kidding and and

(01:09:55):
he came to me because youprobably want to kill me, don't
you wow?

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
I said you're absolutely right and we had a
chat and productive, and I foundout what it was all about and
we hugged no kidding yeah, Imean I 30 years later.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Yeah, and it was probably felt good, didn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
yeah, it did.
You know it was a burden, um,and and it's anybody to have
that kind of animosity towardssomebody, it just it's not, it's
not good, yeah, it's nothealthy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
So simmons.
And so simmons claims it wasnot well he was doing.
Yeah, it was basically you know.
He was told.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
Yeah, you know and that and that's you know that
was good enough for me, yeah,and you know what that was.
You know that was good enoughfor me, yeah, and you know what
that was.
You know something that youknow.
I wish I would have known andhandled it better.
But I was a bitter guy to TedSimmons, you know, and never saw
him again until said aboutthree years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
Well, not to stir anything up again, but it was
still Simmons who misrepresentedwhat Drabik wanted.
I mean, there's no doubt aboutthat.
Simmons didn't have to do that.
Well, you know what he didn'thave to.

Speaker 1 (01:11:01):
There was a lot more than you know.
Ted was the fall guy but therewas a guy that was the president
of the club Mark Sauer sourthat was calling a lot of shots
yeah his last name says it all,then yeah, so it's making it.
Yeah, that's you know if hewants to come down spring
training, I'll put the gear on.
We'll play at the plate markyou want I want.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
I'm a sour fan.
Sour hired me, so I can't sayanything about sour, but anyway.
So you go to the white socksnow and you play for gene lamont
, yeah that was great.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
Your third great manager, geno, was awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
Who had been the longtime coach of Jim Leland.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Yes, different temperament than Leland, but a
great baseball mind.
He was very quiet and he didn'tcome across.
He didn't get the credit forbeing the baseball guy that he
was yeah absolutely fabulous hewas very, very good, you know,
but again, his temperament well,he wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
He wasn't as good with the media as they wanted
him to be.
Yeah, I think right, yeah anduh that was a very comfortable
feeling.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
Yeah, um, but I was.
I was the backup.
Catcherarko was the number oneguy, karko.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
Weiss so.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
I played once a week, once every couple weeks, which
was, you know I didn't like it,but it is what it was.
Yeah, and I tried to do my bestyou know to whenever I get in
there, just be your best.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
Yeah, try to win that ballgame.
Yeah, and you have a goodbaseball mind I mean a great
baseball mind in my, in myopinion, and I learned a lot
from you as a young buck andcontinue to learn.
But, like, did you spend a lotof time with those guys as a kid
?
Like I took a lot of pride intrying to be around the race
here, just of the world that, uh, jeff bannister's clint hurdles
and I'd be, especially when Ididn't play.
I try to be as close to him aspossible, hear kind of what's

(01:12:50):
going on, play the game of mymind with them.
I feel like you did a lot ofthat.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Well, that's a you know whenever I went over to the
white spots you know, I hadn'tcaught any of the guys, the
talent.
I mean jack mcdowell, alexfernandez, jason beret, wilson
alvarez holy.

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
I mean, these are just.
I didn't know that this is, youknow.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
First, time that I was able to, you know, basically
put a one down without crossingmy fingers.
Here you go Give me your bestfastball, because every one of
those guys had legit cheese Likethunder, yeah, so.
I mean, but it was spent a lotof time back in the day.
We spent a lot of time in thelocker room together, talking

(01:13:31):
before, after, I mean with thewhite socks, and we were cigar
smokers.
So before, like after battingpractice, we'd light up in the
locker room right and then allof a sudden be like infield 10
minutes.
Ah crap, put out your cigarwell, take infield, isn't that
beautiful?
Yeah, so I mean you know andthen after the game was the same
kind of thing you know.

(01:13:52):
But I get to know and I thinkthat's a big part of it is your
relationship with your pitchingstaff, because when those guys
know that you care, they'regoing to give you everything and
that's a big thing.
If they think that you don'tcare and you're only thinking
about your stats, your offense,then they're going to kind of

(01:14:12):
not give it the best, yeah, notget the best out of it.
But I, you know, I felt thatyou know, the next day in the
paper, never had an L, lostLaValliere, but I felt like I
was part of that.
You know, if we get the L, Iwas part of that and I think I
came across to my pitchingstaffs like they knew that.

(01:14:34):
And that's where you know,building that, you know, that
kind of trust, you know, was ahuge, huge thing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
How about your relationship with Bob Walk?

Speaker 3 (01:14:45):
Yeah, and I want to talk about the call from the
booth.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
Explain because Walkie loves to tell the story.
Okay, so.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
I've got more Walkie stories, stories, I'm sure.
Um, we are here to hear them,yeah, so, uh, back in 89,
whenever I was hurt, um, I usedto sit up on the fourth level
and, um, maybe drink beer andmaybe eat hot dogs.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
Uh, nothing confirmed .
Nothing confirmed, yeah, um,maybe not confirmed, maybe not.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
But uh, you know, I told walkie I says it's amazing
because you sit up there, yousee the whole field, you know
from up there what a greatvantage point.
I says you know, walkie, if youever get stuck, look up there,
right, just look up there.
So kevin mitchell's up at theplate and walkie throws him a
curveball.
He hits it nine miles foul atthree rivers Right.

(01:15:35):
And so Waukee's on the moundand he's like this and there's
like the light bulb went off.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
And he looks up, he remembers Wait a minute,
spanky's up there.

Speaker 1 (01:15:44):
I about fall out of the booth.
I'm yelling hook him again,hook him again.
He hooks him again.
He pops it up, waukee walks offand gets his cap.
That is the greatest thing ofall time, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
I get it.
He realizes he's all bummed out, doesn't know what to do.
Uh-oh, lavalliere's up therespanking.
Could you imagine him justgoing?
Yeah, his head was down and youcould see, because when Wacky
fought a lot smoke yeah, it wasexactly like that His head was
down.

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
And you could see the wheels just spinning, because
when Wacky fought, a lot smokecame out of his ears, so it was
smoking.
That still happens and I'mgoing.
Oh my God, I can help him here.
I know I can and just like thathe looked up and I just like I
may have spilled a hot dog, butI fell out and whenever, just

(01:16:35):
like I may have spilled ahundred but I felt, fell out and
and whenever you did it, oh mygod it was, it was one of the
greatest moments.
That's so tremendous so much fun.
Oh my gosh, what a blast, yeah,I'll tell you what yeah so much
fun.
One of many, oh, whirlybirdstories we Whirlybird.

Speaker 2 (01:16:53):
We have to have another show with Spanky just
talking Whirlybird stories.

Speaker 3 (01:16:56):
I'll get me and Walkie together and Drebeck.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
Oh yeah, and Drebeck, that's what we're going to do.

Speaker 3 (01:17:01):
Yeah, him and Drebeck at Fantasy Camp are like two
legends walking around.
Yes, they're still going out.
When?

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Walkie comes down.
We've going to be coming backlast week.
We're going to have you down.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
You two just spin tails well, I'll check my social
schedule yeah, yeah, you mightbe.

Speaker 2 (01:17:16):
Uh, you're traveling around the world these days.
You are a world traveler.
Yeah, well, you know what?

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
not getting any younger, yeah, yeah, so welcome
to the club if I don't go now.
Yeah, understand, you know whatthe wheelchairs just don't go
really good on the beach, so sothank you Enjoy while I can.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
Spanky.
You said when you sat down herewith us so many people have
said your favorite podcast andyou are a podcast aficionado.
One of the first things he saidwas my favorite podcast is Hold
.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
My, he was going like this Especially catchers,
catchers and pitchers Hold myCutter.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
They love Hold my Cutter.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
You know.
So, yeah, I got to show up.
I got stogies, I got the torch,you got the torch, we got the
catchers.

Speaker 3 (01:18:01):
You set the setup.
I mean you know what Anesthesia.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
Anesthesia.
This podcast was made for meand you Best, cutter you ever
caught real quick.
Alex Fernandez oh nice, itactually had noise.
It screamed, it said noise.
Yeah, it was, it had noise, itwas devastating.

(01:18:26):
But the best one I've seen wasMariano.
Yeah, because we get a reportright and this is his rookie
year and he comes up inSeptember and at the time he was
starving Right, and so we getthe report.
You know sinker slider guy Allright.
So Tim Raines first, that batcomes back.
He's got about eight inches ofhis handle left after he snaps.

(01:18:51):
It's now a pencil Right.
Joey Corr is up next.
He's got less, and joey beingthe fired up little guy, yeah,
yeah, and he goes sinker slayer,my ass, this guy's got a cutter
from hell.
Right, tell that scout that hecan.
Yeah, he needs a new job.
But yeah, alex Fernandez,stuff-wise I love Dougie and

(01:19:19):
Dougie had great stuff, but forpure four pitches Alex was one
of the best.

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
I'm surprised that he never got a sigh.

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
Yeah Well, heck man, we're going to give you an MVP
for one of the top guests onHold my Cutter Cheers Legend.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
Fellas, he's a cutter Always available.

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
Make sure Spanky always tells us, make sure you
tell your viewers, yourlisteners, like and subscribe
and send the questions onanything To Spanky.
To Spanky.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
Yes, I'm single ladies out there, oh there you
go.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
It's called a plug, that's a plug.
Go get spanky.
Yeah, the plug didn't take holdmy cutter, thank you.

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