September 26, 2024 • 22 mins
Why do some screenplays get green lit, while others never see the light of day?
Join us this week for some behind-the-scenes intel from a studio script reader, a self-described "first gatekeeper" who's been part of the process of getting stories from page to screen for over two decades.
"One of the first things you learn as a reader is, even on the worst script, you have to say something nice. And that is partly so the execs can get on the phone and have your coverage in their hands and be like, 'We really like the character of, uh... "Joe," but unfortunately we already have something similar in development.'"
We discuss the method behind the apparent Hollywood madness of what gets made, including how some scripts improve through the development process, while others end up getting... ugh... "noted to death."
"I've seen stuff in development where it was like, there was something special about this script, and you killed it."
Listen in to hear stories of how films you've definitely heard of made it from the reader's desk to the screen... including one that almost didn't. And hear how our confessor stumbled onto this hard-to-find career path... and discovered, against all odds, that it was actually their dream job.
Have you had experience as a Hollywood script reader? Confess! Send us a DM @fessuphollywood or leave us a comment. We'd love to hear from you!
Connect with us:
Check out some of our favorite shows:
- Screenwriters' Rant Room
- Screaming into the Hollywood Abyss
- It Happened in Hollywood
- The Secret History of Hollywood
Hollywood Confessional is a Ninth Way Media production, produced by Meagan Daine and J.R. Zamora-Thal.
Sound Effects and Music provided by Zapsplat and Pixabay.
Keywords: filmmaking podcast, film podcast, screenwriting podcast, entertainment podcast, Hollywood, filmmaking, writerslife, actorslife, setlife
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
In nomine Cinema e TV , Espiritu Streaming Amen.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, hello, Hollywood faithful, Welcome back
to another episode of theHollywood Confessional.
I'm your favorite podcastpriest Megan Day.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And I'm your other favorite, jr Zamora-Thal, and
this is the podcast where wehave industry professionals
share their deep, dark Hollywoodsecrets anonymously, of course.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And this episode is the one that I think so many of
us have been waiting for.
This is the confessions of agatekeeper also known as, in
this particular case, a scriptreader keeper also known as, in
this particular case, a scriptreader and JR.
Last week, you talked a littlebit about your notorious
(00:56):
experience as a reader, for, butyou basically only talked about
how it ended, so I was reallycurious what was it like before
then?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Well, it came at a time back when I was still an
engineer.
I was working a full-time job,you know, nine to six, and I was
lucky enough to be able to fitan internship, an in-person
internship, where I would goonce a week during that time
because I was ready totransition into film, I was
ready to get out of engineering,and so I was looking for a way
(01:23):
to do more because I really, youknow, wanted to get all my
ducks in a row before I wasgoing to make this switch.
So the producer that I wasinterning with was really nice
and set me up with a remoteinternship as a script reader,
which allowed me to read scriptson my own time, and it's an
incredible opportunity to justread what else is out there,
(01:44):
because it helps you grow as awriter.
So so much.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Wow, that's a lot, though you were working
full-time as an engineer andthen also working part-time as a
essentially a volunteer scriptreader.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, and as an intern for uh, for this company,
that it was a great experienceand you know I was working two
internships in a job.
But that's kind of the dream,right?
You do what you got to do inorder to get where you want to
go.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Is that the dream?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Listen when you're an engineer looking on the outside
, any internship is a dream.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
All right.
Well, you know, there's so manydifferent interesting ways in
right, and so this week, fromour confessor, we have someone
who took the studio route as areader.
So most of the reader jobs thatI'm aware of Are not paid.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I was certainly not.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, like yours.
You know you're working for amanagement company or whatever
interning.
I had one of those as well, butlike this person who we're
going to be hearing from thisweek, they got in on the studio
route and then they had a veryinteresting journey that ends
with something I totally did notexpect, so you ready to hear
about that?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Let's step into the confessional booth.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Forgive me, Father, for I am a Hollywood script
reader.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And I love my job.
Wow, you are seriously blessed.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Either that or you have got some major penance
coming.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Well, essentially what a script reader, also known
as a story analyst does iswrite coverage.
So we're the first gatekeeper,I guess you'd call it.
I read a script and then Icover it, which basically means
writing a book report like youdid in elementary school.
I write like one and a half toa two-page synopsis and then
like three quarters of a page ofcomments and then I turn it
(03:46):
into the agency or the studio.
Coverage is mostly a tool forexecutives, but they get a ton
of submissions, as you canimagine, and because they're
busy executing all day, theycan't read everything that comes
in.
So a reader is part of aprocess of weaning out, like I
can't say yes to something but Ican say no, and sort of winnow
(04:08):
down the number of scripts anexec has to take home to read
over the weekend.
One of the first things youlearn as a reader is, even on
the worst script you have to saysomething nice, and that is
partly so.
The execs can get on the phoneand have your coverage in their
hands and be like we really likethe character of Joe, but
(04:32):
unfortunately we already havesomething similar in development
.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I am very worried about how many times I've gotten
that exact feedback.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Well.
So I didn't set out to be areader when I first moved to LA.
Like anybody else, I guess Iwanted to be a writer director.
But I was looking for a job andI had a friend that I was
working on a no budget indiemovie with who was a reader for,
and he was like I'm getting toomuch work, they're looking for
somebody else to do it.
You know what coverage is right?
(05:02):
I had no idea what coverage wasand this was like 25 years ago
and resources just weren'tavailable like they are now.
But my friend showed me anexample and explained what he
did and I was like what?
You read scripts and they payyou.
So I got in touch with a guy.
He had me do sample coverage.
It took me all day to do it.
(05:23):
I had no idea what I was doing,but I guess it was good enough
because he hired me and my firstgig was reading for a producer
who had a deal with.
Most of what I read wasterrible.
Oh no, I used to say it was 99%shit.
Now it's like 90% shit.
So I'm moving up in the world.
In the beginning I wasn'tgetting enough work.
(05:43):
I was always hustling, tryingto juggle as many different
companies as I could to cobbletogether a living.
At one point I got a jobreading from the slush pile
Unwrapped writers who werelooking for an agent basically
any crackpot that could gettheir mailing address.
That stuff was like just bottomof the barrel the worst spiral
bindings, weird fonts, 400 pagefantasies, illustrations and
(06:07):
magic marker.
It was like have you even seena movie?
Like I don't know what this is,but it is not a movie.
It was also kind of a shit jobbecause it only paid 35 bucks a
script which, even if you cancrank one out in three hours, I
guess some people could do it intwo.
I could never do it in two.
Like.
I knew people who would be like, yeah, I cover four scripts a
(06:27):
day.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Oh geez, Four scripts a day.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
I'm like you're out of your fucking mind.
I can't do that.
I do two and my brain shuts off.
Plus, back then you had to pickup and drop off the scripts.
It was like drive from my placein to in Beverly Hills to pick
up scripts at like 6 30 PM.
So you're driving in rush hourboth ways, driving across town,
(06:51):
dropping off coverage that I hadprinted out.
I would even make copies forthe different executives that
were going to read it.
So like, go in with my coverage, make copies, collate, staple,
drop it off, pick up scripts.
This was Monday, wednesday,friday, without fail Is
different than a lot of places.
They don't want people walkingin off the street.
So I had a photo ID badge and Iguess I felt like dress for the
(07:14):
job you want.
So I would wear like khakis anda button down shirt, not really
dressing up, but I wanted tolook presentable.
But there was one time on aFriday I was on my way home from
the beach and so I'm likewearing a tank top and flip
flops or whatever.
I just kind of like roll inthere like looking like a bum
and they were so much nicer tome, what it was crazy People who
(07:38):
had never talked to me, talkedto me and I think it's because
they were like oh, that guy'sgot to be a director.
Any guy who would walk in herelooking like that must be
somebody.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Ah, LA, don't dress for the job you want.
Dress like the trust fund isfull and the margaritas are
empty.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I want to dress like that.
I want to dress like that.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Well, I eventually got fired from that job.
Usually they don't fire youyour phone just stops ringing.
But for whatever reason theytook the time to fire me and I
wasn't indignant about it oranything.
But I did ask why and she waslike I didn't think your
coverage was inspired.
No fucking way.
I'm like are you fuckinggetting me inspired?
(08:20):
I'm reading the worst of theworst People who have no fucking
clue what they're doing, likeyou try getting inspired from
that.
So that was shitty.
But I worked for a ton ofdifferent companies.
I basically never said no toanything, I never took a
vacation, I always took workwith me and I soon found ways to
make more money.
(08:40):
Like, for instance, you getyour regular fee for coverage
and that's like a two-dayturnaround.
So you get the script on likeMonday afternoon or evening and
then it would be due Wednesdayend of day.
But for the high priority stufflike, say, there was something
that everybody had eyes on, aspec with a bidding war or
something with so-and-soattached that would be overnight
(09:01):
.
It would be due at 9 am or 10am, depending on when they
started their workday.
By then they were messengeringme the scripts.
There were times when I'd belike where is this fucking guy?
It's 10, 11.
I gotta get going on this thing.
But you get it to them next dayand do a good job and you get
more money.
I always said yes to anovernight, no matter what, and I
did that for a lot of years andmy fee went up every.
(09:23):
Every time I went to a newcompany and they asked me what
my fee was, I'd like bump it up,like you know, 10, 20 bucks.
So you know it was like 35bucks, then it was 50 for a
while, then it became 60.
And towards the end it was like95, 105.
That's pretty much the max.
I would be very surprised if itwas anything above that now,
because it did not keep up withthe price of the cost of
inflation.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
So if freelance readers are making the max doing
two scripts a day, say six daysa week, that's how much.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Oof, that's about 50 grand a year.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
As independent contractors before taxes.
How low can I go?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Well, at a certain point I started getting
referrals.
I worked for for a long time.
Little by little, not only didmy fee go up, but the quality of
work improved.
That's how I know I'm moving upin the world.
I've definitely read somereally really good stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
What makes something really really good?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
There's a Tolstoy quote, something about all happy
families being happy in thesame way and all unhappy
families being different.
All bad scripts are bad in thesame way and all the good ones
are different.
I do these sort of check boxesexcellent, good, fair or poor.
I hardly ever give out anexcellent and I try not to give
out a poor.
(10:43):
I only give out a poor if I'mlike personally offended by
something, if I feel like theyhave their heart in the right
place, okay, it's just a pass.
90% of what I read is a pass.
Top 10 percentile is consider.
Top 1 percentile is a recommend.
Logline is the most important,because a logline is the concept
right and the concept is theone thing you can't fix.
(11:05):
A good concept that's badlyexecuted can be fixed.
It goes through rewrites.
You also get a sense of like.
Is this a movie that people wantto see?
Can I imagine a poster?
What's the poster?
What's the tagline on theposter?
As opposed to the logline?
Is it something that we haven'tseen before?
You know there's that sort ofcliche Give me the same but
(11:25):
different.
Some cigar-chomping studiomogul said that.
Does this seem like a successfulmovie of the past?
But not exactly like that movieSome new twist, some new angle.
Beyond that, I'm looking atstructure.
It doesn't have to like followBlake Snyder's beat sheet, but
there are certain truisms.
Like we need an incitingincident ideally within the
first 15 pages.
Like we need an incitingincident ideally within the
(11:45):
first 15 pages.
Are the stakes being raisedthroughout the story?
Is there a dramatic climax?
Is there a satisfying ending?
I figured out early on thatwhen you're getting paid by the
script, it's in your bestinterest to finish quickly.
So if I'm just flipping pageslike I can't wait to get to the
end of this thing, that's goingto be a pass.
But if it's like, huh, I'mactually reading this script and
(12:08):
I'm enjoying it.
I'm engaged and involved and Iwant to know what happens next.
That's how I know it's going tobe a consider or a very rare
recommend.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Can you tell us about some of the ones that have
gotten that extra specialrecommend?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
There's a few that I've read like that that just
knock my socks off, like when Iread Get Out, I felt that way.
I was like, okay, I know whoJordan Peele is, I'm expecting
this to be a comedy, a horrorcomedy, like scary movie, and it
is not that.
And I was like this is amazing.
That's one that just totallytook me by surprise.
I still think it's one of thebest of this century.
(12:41):
It's weird Sometimes scriptschange pretty radically during
development.
Like you know, get Outoriginally had a totally
different ending, but I stillloved the first draft, even
though I think the ending theychose is better.
A lot of times, as a storyanalyst, I'm reading an early
draft, the ones we have indevelopment.
I read one, two, three, four orfive drafts and sometimes they
(13:01):
get better, sometimes they don't.
It's a fucking miracle when amovie comes out good.
There's many points on thetimeline where it can all go to
shit.
But I've seen stuff indevelopment where it was like
there was something specialabout this script and you killed
it.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh no, that's terrible.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
How does that happen?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Like I said, it's weird.
You try to fix one thing, startyanking on this one thread and
it's like the Weezer sweatersong the whole thing just
unravels.
Yeah, sometimes I try to makethings more conventional, try to
make the character more likableor relatable, and really good
writers can understand a noteand incorporate it in an elegant
fashion.
(13:40):
But not everybody can do thatand a lot of times you feel like
they're just tacking on somescene or just trying to make it.
You know we need a bigger thirdact and the whole thing falls
apart.
Sometimes those get made, but alot of times they don't,
because the first draft wasflawed but now you've noted it
to death.
It's like I kind of liked itbefore, but now I don't Pretty
(14:00):
sure.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I've gotten that feedback before.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Anyway, eventually I guess I did start making a name
for myself as a reader.
You're mostly dealing withassistants and sometimes the
assistants move up to becomeexecutives and they remember you
.
So one day, after years andyears of freelancing, I got a
call and I knew the person whocalled me.
But he was like so-and-soreferred you and I was like
racking my brain.
I had no idea.
I was like oh yeah, mike, greatguy, you know what am I going
(14:35):
to say.
But I'm glad I took that jobbecause it was for, and I
freelanced for them for a numberof years and then they became a
signatory, which got me intothe story analyst union.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I did not even know.
There was a story analyst union.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Getting into the union was something that I'd
wanted to do for a long time.
It's really just the legacystudios that actually have story
departments left over from likethe old days.
Those legacy companies have along standing contract that they
only work with union readersand it's sort of like a catch 22
.
If you know anything aboutunions, there's open shops and
(15:06):
closed shops.
This was very much a closedshop, so there's very few ways
that you could get into theunion.
In order to join, you had tohave 30 days working for a union
company.
A signatory is what they callit, but you can't get your 30
days unless you're hired by asignatory.
So when I was freelancing forand they decided they wanted to
become a signatory, that's how Igot it.
I survived a number of HungerGames style layoffs, I got my 30
(15:30):
days and now I'm no longer afreelancer, I'm an employee in
the union.
I have a 40 hour guaranteedweek, I get weekends off which
is amazing and I am actuallyputting money towards a pension.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
This is entirely unheard of in this industry.
This is entirely unheard of inthis industry.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
So can I hold on to this job until I retire?
You know I prefer if theydidn't know how old I am.
They know how old I am.
But you know it's a very ageistindustry.
It's like that Dazed andConfused line.
I keep getting older and theassistants stay the same age.
(16:12):
The funny thing is, when Istarted writing coverage I never
thought it was going to bepermanent.
I have literally said I can'timagine doing this when I'm 50,
but now I'm bleep and I'm doingit and I'm actually in a really
good place because I have aunion job.
It's a great gig, you know.
After hustling for so long, itjust feels like a relief.
I think it's my dream job.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Amen to finding your dream job or letting your dream
job find you.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I take back what I said about penance reluctantly.
Go create in peace.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Wow, I had no idea that was a job, and if that's a
union job, I want this job.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Oh my God, I know right, and listeners.
By the way, this is Anna Karini.
She is our wonderful performeron this episode.
Hello, that was so fun, yeah,and it's really crazy, right,
and it makes me think, like evenjust recording the episode now,
after having done the interview, I'm hearing different things,
right, and the thing that struckme the most was like the fact
that Once you have a union joband like, you have that sense of
(17:21):
stability and like, and it'sall tied into the like, the
legacy studios and that systemof story development that they
used to have I feel like you cando so much better than people
who are just freelancing or,like JR was talking about in the
intro, like interning, asyou're working a full-time job
(17:41):
to pay your bills as an engineerand then you're just like
cramming reading into the cracks, like I mean, this is a really
critical part of storydevelopment and that's how
movies get made Right, and Ifeel like part of the reason
that a lot of times, things getto the screen and they're not as
good as we kind of hope thatthey would be.
(18:02):
I mean, the the confessor getsinto that.
A lot times things get to thescreen and they're not as good
as we kind of hope that theywould be.
I mean, the confessor gets intothat a lot, but I think it's
probably because people arescrambling to be able to pay
their bills a lot of times andthey're not able to.
I mean, this goes for execs too.
They don't have the time to beable to really dig into a story.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Yeah, that's a really great point.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
To speak to that too.
I mean, I was an intern readingscripts.
Giving these notes.
That's a union job.
This confessor had so much moreexperience than I did as a 20
something intern, and so thenotes that you're getting from
the confessor are going to befar and away better than
anything I was giving at thattime.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Same here.
You know, when I was first, Iwas somewhere in my 20 and
trying to like become a writerand that's just one of the
things that sort of feels like,oh, maybe you know, maybe I
could learn and also get afoothold in Hollywood by being a
reader and I did some of thelike unpaid reader jobs.
Remember the first one I got?
(19:03):
I mean, I did not go to filmschool and, um JR, as we were
discussing right before werecorded this, I was not allowed
to watch anything that was morethan a PG when I was growing up
in school, right.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I still don't know how you got here.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Dude, it was a long journey, but I but I remember I
had to fill out this applicationand they were like, what are
some of your favorite movies?
And I was like, um, I reallylove the princess, yeah, it was
all that kind of stuff, Right,and I was like I really don't
think this is what they'relooking for.
But they had me do a sample andI guess the sample was good
(19:34):
enough, but I knew nothing,Right, and that's what you're
going to get.
I mean, hopefully not that bad.
But if you're not paying forlabor, whereas if you are, you
know, like creating a pipelineand making this a career, a
sustainable career, then you'regoing to get somebody that you
know has, at this point, thisconfessor has what like 25 years
(19:56):
of experience, maybe more,that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
I am blown away by this being a full-time union job
and that this person got toread get out.
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
yeah, that's so cool you imagine having that script
come across and like I mean, howfun for this person when they
find the ones like that yeah andum, and we have been given
permission to say that thisperson is anonymous, but they
are on social media, um, as thehollywood and they if you are
interested in reading more aboutthe sorts of like the scripts
(20:26):
that they have had the chance toread and help with development
on it's at H wood S C R P T R EA D R.
Write it down or something orjust look up Hollywood Script
Reader, but anyways, they post alot of really interesting
(20:46):
stories, including about ascript that they passed on that
went on to win many Oscars.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
This is one of my favorite stories.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
So definitely worth checking out their account and
following them for that.
Thank you so much forperforming that story for us,
Anna, and for joining us on theoutro.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Thanks for having me.
This was so fun.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And listeners.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
We've been talking a lot.
It's funny.
The confessor also talked aboutlike being fired by being
ghosted, so that's been asubject of conversation lately.
Next time we have a story ofpeople who are let go not fired
but laid off and what it's liketo be the last person standing
(21:32):
but until then, if you have anyconfessions of your own and
you'd like to reach out, you canfind us on instagram and x at
fessa paul, join us and untilthen, go create in peace.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
The Hollywood Confessional is produced by
Megan Dane and JR Zamorathal.
Our cast for this episode, AnnaKarini.
Special effects provided byZapSplat and Pixabay.
Hollywood Confessional is aNinth Way Media production.
Follow us on socials atFessUpHollywood.
Thanks for watching.
In nomine Cinema e TV , Espiritu Streaming Amen.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello, hello, Hollywood faithful, Welcome back
to another episode of theHollywood Confessional.
I'm your favorite podcastpriest Megan Day.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And I'm your other favorite, jr Zamora-Thal, and
this is the podcast where wehave industry professionals
share their deep, dark Hollywoodsecrets anonymously, of course.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And this episode is the one that I think so many of
us have been waiting for.
This is the confessions of agatekeeper also known as, in
this particular case, a scriptreader keeper also known as, in
this particular case, a scriptreader and JR.
Last week, you talked a littlebit about your notorious
(00:56):
experience as a reader, for, butyou basically only talked about
how it ended, so I was reallycurious what was it like before
then?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Well, it came at a time back when I was still an
engineer.
I was working a full-time job,you know, nine to six, and I was
lucky enough to be able to fitan internship, an in-person
internship, where I would goonce a week during that time
because I was ready totransition into film, I was
ready to get out of engineering,and so I was looking for a way
(01:23):
to do more because I really, youknow, wanted to get all my
ducks in a row before I wasgoing to make this switch.
So the producer that I wasinterning with was really nice
and set me up with a remoteinternship as a script reader,
which allowed me to read scriptson my own time, and it's an
incredible opportunity to justread what else is out there,
(01:44):
because it helps you grow as awriter.
So so much.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Wow, that's a lot, though you were working
full-time as an engineer andthen also working part-time as a
essentially a volunteer scriptreader.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, and as an intern for uh, for this company,
that it was a great experienceand you know I was working two
internships in a job.
But that's kind of the dream,right?
You do what you got to do inorder to get where you want to
go.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Is that the dream?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Listen when you're an engineer looking on the outside
, any internship is a dream.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
All right.
Well, you know, there's so manydifferent interesting ways in
right, and so this week, fromour confessor, we have someone
who took the studio route as areader.
So most of the reader jobs thatI'm aware of Are not paid.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I was certainly not.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, like yours.
You know you're working for amanagement company or whatever
interning.
I had one of those as well, butlike this person who we're
going to be hearing from thisweek, they got in on the studio
route and then they had a veryinteresting journey that ends
with something I totally did notexpect, so you ready to hear
about that?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Let's step into the confessional booth.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Forgive me, Father, for I am a Hollywood script
reader.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And I love my job.
Wow, you are seriously blessed.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Either that or you have got some major penance
coming.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Well, essentially what a script reader, also known
as a story analyst does iswrite coverage.
So we're the first gatekeeper,I guess you'd call it.
I read a script and then Icover it, which basically means
writing a book report like youdid in elementary school.
I write like one and a half toa two-page synopsis and then
like three quarters of a page ofcomments and then I turn it
(03:46):
into the agency or the studio.
Coverage is mostly a tool forexecutives, but they get a ton
of submissions, as you canimagine, and because they're
busy executing all day, theycan't read everything that comes
in.
So a reader is part of aprocess of weaning out, like I
can't say yes to something but Ican say no, and sort of winnow
(04:08):
down the number of scripts anexec has to take home to read
over the weekend.
One of the first things youlearn as a reader is, even on
the worst script you have to saysomething nice, and that is
partly so.
The execs can get on the phoneand have your coverage in their
hands and be like we really likethe character of Joe, but
(04:32):
unfortunately we already havesomething similar in development
.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I am very worried about how many times I've gotten
that exact feedback.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Well.
So I didn't set out to be areader when I first moved to LA.
Like anybody else, I guess Iwanted to be a writer director.
But I was looking for a job andI had a friend that I was
working on a no budget indiemovie with who was a reader for,
and he was like I'm getting toomuch work, they're looking for
somebody else to do it.
You know what coverage is right?
(05:02):
I had no idea what coverage wasand this was like 25 years ago
and resources just weren'tavailable like they are now.
But my friend showed me anexample and explained what he
did and I was like what?
You read scripts and they payyou.
So I got in touch with a guy.
He had me do sample coverage.
It took me all day to do it.
(05:23):
I had no idea what I was doing,but I guess it was good enough
because he hired me and my firstgig was reading for a producer
who had a deal with.
Most of what I read wasterrible.
Oh no, I used to say it was 99%shit.
Now it's like 90% shit.
So I'm moving up in the world.
In the beginning I wasn'tgetting enough work.
(05:43):
I was always hustling, tryingto juggle as many different
companies as I could to cobbletogether a living.
At one point I got a jobreading from the slush pile
Unwrapped writers who werelooking for an agent basically
any crackpot that could gettheir mailing address.
That stuff was like just bottomof the barrel the worst spiral
bindings, weird fonts, 400 pagefantasies, illustrations and
(06:07):
magic marker.
It was like have you even seena movie?
Like I don't know what this is,but it is not a movie.
It was also kind of a shit jobbecause it only paid 35 bucks a
script which, even if you cancrank one out in three hours, I
guess some people could do it intwo.
I could never do it in two.
Like.
I knew people who would be like, yeah, I cover four scripts a
(06:27):
day.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Oh geez, Four scripts a day.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
I'm like you're out of your fucking mind.
I can't do that.
I do two and my brain shuts off.
Plus, back then you had to pickup and drop off the scripts.
It was like drive from my placein to in Beverly Hills to pick
up scripts at like 6 30 PM.
So you're driving in rush hourboth ways, driving across town,
(06:51):
dropping off coverage that I hadprinted out.
I would even make copies forthe different executives that
were going to read it.
So like, go in with my coverage, make copies, collate, staple,
drop it off, pick up scripts.
This was Monday, wednesday,friday, without fail Is
different than a lot of places.
They don't want people walkingin off the street.
So I had a photo ID badge and Iguess I felt like dress for the
(07:14):
job you want.
So I would wear like khakis anda button down shirt, not really
dressing up, but I wanted tolook presentable.
But there was one time on aFriday I was on my way home from
the beach and so I'm likewearing a tank top and flip
flops or whatever.
I just kind of like roll inthere like looking like a bum
and they were so much nicer tome, what it was crazy People who
(07:38):
had never talked to me, talkedto me and I think it's because
they were like oh, that guy'sgot to be a director.
Any guy who would walk in herelooking like that must be
somebody.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Ah, LA, don't dress for the job you want.
Dress like the trust fund isfull and the margaritas are
empty.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I want to dress like that.
I want to dress like that.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Well, I eventually got fired from that job.
Usually they don't fire youyour phone just stops ringing.
But for whatever reason theytook the time to fire me and I
wasn't indignant about it oranything.
But I did ask why and she waslike I didn't think your
coverage was inspired.
No fucking way.
I'm like are you fuckinggetting me inspired?
(08:20):
I'm reading the worst of theworst People who have no fucking
clue what they're doing, likeyou try getting inspired from
that.
So that was shitty.
But I worked for a ton ofdifferent companies.
I basically never said no toanything, I never took a
vacation, I always took workwith me and I soon found ways to
make more money.
(08:40):
Like, for instance, you getyour regular fee for coverage
and that's like a two-dayturnaround.
So you get the script on likeMonday afternoon or evening and
then it would be due Wednesdayend of day.
But for the high priority stufflike, say, there was something
that everybody had eyes on, aspec with a bidding war or
something with so-and-soattached that would be overnight
(09:01):
.
It would be due at 9 am or 10am, depending on when they
started their workday.
By then they were messengeringme the scripts.
There were times when I'd belike where is this fucking guy?
It's 10, 11.
I gotta get going on this thing.
But you get it to them next dayand do a good job and you get
more money.
I always said yes to anovernight, no matter what, and I
did that for a lot of years andmy fee went up every.
(09:23):
Every time I went to a newcompany and they asked me what
my fee was, I'd like bump it up,like you know, 10, 20 bucks.
So you know it was like 35bucks, then it was 50 for a
while, then it became 60.
And towards the end it was like95, 105.
That's pretty much the max.
I would be very surprised if itwas anything above that now,
because it did not keep up withthe price of the cost of
inflation.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
So if freelance readers are making the max doing
two scripts a day, say six daysa week, that's how much.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Oof, that's about 50 grand a year.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
As independent contractors before taxes.
How low can I go?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Well, at a certain point I started getting
referrals.
I worked for for a long time.
Little by little, not only didmy fee go up, but the quality of
work improved.
That's how I know I'm moving upin the world.
I've definitely read somereally really good stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
What makes something really really good?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
There's a Tolstoy quote, something about all happy
families being happy in thesame way and all unhappy
families being different.
All bad scripts are bad in thesame way and all the good ones
are different.
I do these sort of check boxesexcellent, good, fair or poor.
I hardly ever give out anexcellent and I try not to give
out a poor.
(10:43):
I only give out a poor if I'mlike personally offended by
something, if I feel like theyhave their heart in the right
place, okay, it's just a pass.
90% of what I read is a pass.
Top 10 percentile is consider.
Top 1 percentile is a recommend.
Logline is the most important,because a logline is the concept
right and the concept is theone thing you can't fix.
(11:05):
A good concept that's badlyexecuted can be fixed.
It goes through rewrites.
You also get a sense of like.
Is this a movie that people wantto see?
Can I imagine a poster?
What's the poster?
What's the tagline on theposter?
As opposed to the logline?
Is it something that we haven'tseen before?
You know there's that sort ofcliche Give me the same but
(11:25):
different.
Some cigar-chomping studiomogul said that.
Does this seem like a successfulmovie of the past?
But not exactly like that movieSome new twist, some new angle.
Beyond that, I'm looking atstructure.
It doesn't have to like followBlake Snyder's beat sheet, but
there are certain truisms.
Like we need an incitingincident ideally within the
first 15 pages.
Like we need an incitingincident ideally within the
(11:45):
first 15 pages.
Are the stakes being raisedthroughout the story?
Is there a dramatic climax?
Is there a satisfying ending?
I figured out early on thatwhen you're getting paid by the
script, it's in your bestinterest to finish quickly.
So if I'm just flipping pageslike I can't wait to get to the
end of this thing, that's goingto be a pass.
But if it's like, huh, I'mactually reading this script and
(12:08):
I'm enjoying it.
I'm engaged and involved and Iwant to know what happens next.
That's how I know it's going tobe a consider or a very rare
recommend.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Can you tell us about some of the ones that have
gotten that extra specialrecommend?
Speaker 3 (12:19):
There's a few that I've read like that that just
knock my socks off, like when Iread Get Out, I felt that way.
I was like, okay, I know whoJordan Peele is, I'm expecting
this to be a comedy, a horrorcomedy, like scary movie, and it
is not that.
And I was like this is amazing.
That's one that just totallytook me by surprise.
I still think it's one of thebest of this century.
(12:41):
It's weird Sometimes scriptschange pretty radically during
development.
Like you know, get Outoriginally had a totally
different ending, but I stillloved the first draft, even
though I think the ending theychose is better.
A lot of times, as a storyanalyst, I'm reading an early
draft, the ones we have indevelopment.
I read one, two, three, four orfive drafts and sometimes they
(13:01):
get better, sometimes they don't.
It's a fucking miracle when amovie comes out good.
There's many points on thetimeline where it can all go to
shit.
But I've seen stuff indevelopment where it was like
there was something specialabout this script and you killed
it.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh no, that's terrible.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
How does that happen?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Like I said, it's weird.
You try to fix one thing, startyanking on this one thread and
it's like the Weezer sweatersong the whole thing just
unravels.
Yeah, sometimes I try to makethings more conventional, try to
make the character more likableor relatable, and really good
writers can understand a noteand incorporate it in an elegant
fashion.
(13:40):
But not everybody can do thatand a lot of times you feel like
they're just tacking on somescene or just trying to make it.
You know we need a bigger thirdact and the whole thing falls
apart.
Sometimes those get made, but alot of times they don't,
because the first draft wasflawed but now you've noted it
to death.
It's like I kind of liked itbefore, but now I don't Pretty
(14:00):
sure.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I've gotten that feedback before.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Anyway, eventually I guess I did start making a name
for myself as a reader.
You're mostly dealing withassistants and sometimes the
assistants move up to becomeexecutives and they remember you
.
So one day, after years andyears of freelancing, I got a
call and I knew the person whocalled me.
But he was like so-and-soreferred you and I was like
racking my brain.
I had no idea.
I was like oh yeah, mike, greatguy, you know what am I going
(14:35):
to say.
But I'm glad I took that jobbecause it was for, and I
freelanced for them for a numberof years and then they became a
signatory, which got me intothe story analyst union.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I did not even know.
There was a story analyst union.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Getting into the union was something that I'd
wanted to do for a long time.
It's really just the legacystudios that actually have story
departments left over from likethe old days.
Those legacy companies have along standing contract that they
only work with union readersand it's sort of like a catch 22
.
If you know anything aboutunions, there's open shops and
(15:06):
closed shops.
This was very much a closedshop, so there's very few ways
that you could get into theunion.
In order to join, you had tohave 30 days working for a union
company.
A signatory is what they callit, but you can't get your 30
days unless you're hired by asignatory.
So when I was freelancing forand they decided they wanted to
become a signatory, that's how Igot it.
I survived a number of HungerGames style layoffs, I got my 30
(15:30):
days and now I'm no longer afreelancer, I'm an employee in
the union.
I have a 40 hour guaranteedweek, I get weekends off which
is amazing and I am actuallyputting money towards a pension.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
This is entirely unheard of in this industry.
This is entirely unheard of inthis industry.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
So can I hold on to this job until I retire?
You know I prefer if theydidn't know how old I am.
They know how old I am.
But you know it's a very ageistindustry.
It's like that Dazed andConfused line.
I keep getting older and theassistants stay the same age.
(16:12):
The funny thing is, when Istarted writing coverage I never
thought it was going to bepermanent.
I have literally said I can'timagine doing this when I'm 50,
but now I'm bleep and I'm doingit and I'm actually in a really
good place because I have aunion job.
It's a great gig, you know.
After hustling for so long, itjust feels like a relief.
I think it's my dream job.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Amen to finding your dream job or letting your dream
job find you.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I take back what I said about penance reluctantly.
Go create in peace.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Wow, I had no idea that was a job, and if that's a
union job, I want this job.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
That's incredible.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Oh my God, I know right, and listeners.
By the way, this is Anna Karini.
She is our wonderful performeron this episode.
Hello, that was so fun, yeah,and it's really crazy, right,
and it makes me think, like evenjust recording the episode now,
after having done the interview, I'm hearing different things,
right, and the thing that struckme the most was like the fact
that Once you have a union joband like, you have that sense of
(17:21):
stability and like, and it'sall tied into the like, the
legacy studios and that systemof story development that they
used to have I feel like you cando so much better than people
who are just freelancing or,like JR was talking about in the
intro, like interning, asyou're working a full-time job
(17:41):
to pay your bills as an engineerand then you're just like
cramming reading into the cracks, like I mean, this is a really
critical part of storydevelopment and that's how
movies get made Right, and Ifeel like part of the reason
that a lot of times, things getto the screen and they're not as
good as we kind of hope thatthey would be.
(18:02):
I mean, the the confessor getsinto that.
A lot times things get to thescreen and they're not as good
as we kind of hope that theywould be.
I mean, the confessor gets intothat a lot, but I think it's
probably because people arescrambling to be able to pay
their bills a lot of times andthey're not able to.
I mean, this goes for execs too.
They don't have the time to beable to really dig into a story.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Yeah, that's a really great point.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
To speak to that too.
I mean, I was an intern readingscripts.
Giving these notes.
That's a union job.
This confessor had so much moreexperience than I did as a 20
something intern, and so thenotes that you're getting from
the confessor are going to befar and away better than
anything I was giving at thattime.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Same here.
You know, when I was first, Iwas somewhere in my 20 and
trying to like become a writerand that's just one of the
things that sort of feels like,oh, maybe you know, maybe I
could learn and also get afoothold in Hollywood by being a
reader and I did some of thelike unpaid reader jobs.
Remember the first one I got?
(19:03):
I mean, I did not go to filmschool and, um JR, as we were
discussing right before werecorded this, I was not allowed
to watch anything that was morethan a PG when I was growing up
in school, right.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I still don't know how you got here.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Dude, it was a long journey, but I but I remember I
had to fill out this applicationand they were like, what are
some of your favorite movies?
And I was like, um, I reallylove the princess, yeah, it was
all that kind of stuff, Right,and I was like I really don't
think this is what they'relooking for.
But they had me do a sample andI guess the sample was good
(19:34):
enough, but I knew nothing,Right, and that's what you're
going to get.
I mean, hopefully not that bad.
But if you're not paying forlabor, whereas if you are, you
know, like creating a pipelineand making this a career, a
sustainable career, then you'regoing to get somebody that you
know has, at this point, thisconfessor has what like 25 years
(19:56):
of experience, maybe more,that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
I am blown away by this being a full-time union job
and that this person got toread get out.
Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
yeah, that's so cool you imagine having that script
come across and like I mean, howfun for this person when they
find the ones like that yeah andum, and we have been given
permission to say that thisperson is anonymous, but they
are on social media, um, as thehollywood and they if you are
interested in reading more aboutthe sorts of like the scripts
(20:26):
that they have had the chance toread and help with development
on it's at H wood S C R P T R EA D R.
Write it down or something orjust look up Hollywood Script
Reader, but anyways, they post alot of really interesting
(20:46):
stories, including about ascript that they passed on that
went on to win many Oscars.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
This is one of my favorite stories.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
So definitely worth checking out their account and
following them for that.
Thank you so much forperforming that story for us,
Anna, and for joining us on theoutro.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Thanks for having me.
This was so fun.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And listeners.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
We've been talking a lot.
It's funny.
The confessor also talked aboutlike being fired by being
ghosted, so that's been asubject of conversation lately.
Next time we have a story ofpeople who are let go not fired
but laid off and what it's liketo be the last person standing
(21:32):
but until then, if you have anyconfessions of your own and
you'd like to reach out, you canfind us on instagram and x at
fessa paul, join us and untilthen, go create in peace.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
The Hollywood Confessional is produced by
Megan Dane and JR Zamorathal.
Our cast for this episode, AnnaKarini.
Special effects provided byZapSplat and Pixabay.
Hollywood Confessional is aNinth Way Media production.
Follow us on socials atFessUpHollywood.
Thanks for watching.
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