June 6, 2024 • 29 mins
"I love writers. But if there's one thing my mom taught me, it's if you love something make it suffer."
With that tweet, the parody account that slayed with truth and laughs during the 2023 Hollywood labor strikes was born. And so was the question, "Who is Fake Carol?"
This week, the writer behind @itsmecarolamptp joins us in the booth to give us an answer. From their initial inspiration to the account going "Hollywood viral," they share how their satirical portrayal of the studios' lead negotiator caught fire, and even managed to fool a few journalists during the strike.
Our guest also opens up about the emotional rollercoaster of being "Fake Carol" while struggling in their real life. Through their personal journey, they highlight the profound importance of community and hope in sustaining a creative career. Join us in the booth for laughs and inspiration as we relive this cultural moment through the words of the real-life person who made it happen.
Connect with us:
Check out some of our favorite shows:
- Screenwriters' Rant Room
- Screaming into the Hollywood Abyss
- It Happened in Hollywood
- The Secret History of Hollywood
Hollywood Confessional is a Ninth Way Media production, produced by Meagan Daine and J.R. Zamora-Thal.
Sound Effects and Music provided by Zapsplat and Pixabay.
Keywords: filmmaking podcast, film podcast, screenwriting podcast, entertainment podcast, Hollywood, filmmaking, writerslife, actorslife, setlife
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
In nomine Cinema e TV Espiritu Streaming.
Amen.
Hello, hollywood, faithful,welcome back to another episode
of the Hollywood Confessional.
I'm your podcast priest, jairZamorathal.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And I'm Megan Dane and um psych.
We told you guys last time thatwe were going to be
interviewing Mo Ryan this week.
We are super excited to bringthat interview to you shortly.
However, we have a very specialsurprise guest this week.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I am very excited for this guest.
I'm very excited to showeverybody our Mo Ryan interview,
but this guest is also veryexciting to me.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, we didn't really know what was going to
happen with this story.
So just a very brief intro tothose who might not be familiar
Back during the writer's strikeof 2023, I'm going to say that
like it's a historical moment orsomething.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Why does that feel so far in the past when you say
the year?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It does.
Yeah, it seems like an epic ago.
So back in 2023, when we hadthe writer strikes, there was an
individual who provided a verypowerful public service by
creating a parody account ofCarol Lombardini, who was the
lead negotiator for the AMPTPbasically the studio union at
that time and this parodyaccount is called it's Me, Carol
(01:31):
, and it kind of kept us allgoing in a rough time.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I'm going to be honest.
When I first saw it I reallythought it was Carol.
Because of the articles thatwere coming out in Deadline, I
was like, oh my god, she is thatme.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
This is the true Carol.
And so you know, everybody waslike oh, who is it, who is it,
who is the real Carol.
And so now we know.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Now we know.
But in true Hollywood,confessional fashion, we are not
unmasking fake Carol.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
But will fake Carol unmask themselves?
Let's step into the booth andfind out.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Forgive me, Father, for I am not the real Carol
Lombardini.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Good to get that cleared up.
So tell us who you really are.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
And maybe who Carol is and why you decided to
impersonate this woman who,until about a year ago, I guess,
a lot of us had probably nevereven heard of?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Okay, back in 2023, before the writer's strike had
started and we were still innegotiations, I was on several
group texts with other writersIn the run-up to the strike.
Everybody would be sharinglinks and information analysis
as to what was going on, and oneday I was like what is the
AMPTP?
And they explained to me thatit's this organization that
(03:00):
works on behalf of studiosthat's run by lawyers, operated
by this lady out of a mall inSherman Oaks.
I just remember thinking thatis the craziest fucking thing
I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
For any of our listeners who may not be
familiar, the AMPTP is theAlliance of Motion Picture and
Television Producers.
It's an association ofcompanies, kind of like a union
is an association of individuals, and the lady in question,
carol Lombardini, is the AMPTP'spresident.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
According to their own website.
Carol has worked for the AMPTPsince its formation in 1982.
She serves as chief negotiatorfor more than 80 industry-wide
labor negotiations on behalf ofmore than 350 motion picture and
television producers.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
And some of those producers are pillars of the
industry.
We're talking Disney, nbc,netflix, amazon, apple, warner
Brothers.
They're all members of theAMPTP.
And little trivia the officesare actually located at the
Sherman Oaks Galleria, wherethey were sublet to the AMPTP by
Warner Brothers during the2007-2008 writer's strike.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It all comes full circles.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
So, leading up to the 2023 strikes, we were facing a
lot of fear and anxiety and whenI found out it all ran through
this one lady.
I immediately looked her up onGoogle and she's in this sort of
business casual pantsuit orsomething and it was like, oh,
this is so funny.
(04:37):
That would be a funny Twitteraccount.
I refuse to call it X.
So, anyway, I registered thename it's me, carol A-M-P-T-P,
and I just kind of sat on it fora while.
Then the writer's strike beganand I had to work a day job, so
(04:59):
I would go out and pick it whenI could like I could sneak out
on a Friday or do an earlymorning shift.
But by the first or second weekI was starting to feel like, oh
, we're going to be doing thisfor a while, and I started to
feel an intense sort of FOMO,not being able to be out there
with the other writers and myfriends.
I wanted to be helpful and tobe a part of this, this bigger
(05:23):
labor action that I believed inso deeply.
I wanted to feel connected.
One day I took a walk and onthe walk I decided, okay, I'm
going to make this account.
I got the picture, wrote herbio.
I wrote several initial tweetslike what might this lady be
thinking about?
And one of them I'm going toparaphrase my own joke and ruin
(05:47):
it it was something about hermother I can't remember.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Oh, I got it.
I got it.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
It was like I actually love writers, and if
there's one thing I learned frommy mother, it's if you love
something, make it suffer.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
And that was the genesis of the fake Carol
account.
That joke started gettingpassed around and retweeted.
Several people startedfollowing and sharing the
account and some of those earlysupporters were key people with
big followings.
So it started slowly at firstand then it started to snowball.
(06:23):
Early on I was just trying tofigure out how much of this do I
want to seem real?
You know like you create anaccount and you're trying to
trick people into thinking it'slegitimately that person so you
can say crazy shit and it'sfunny.
Multiple journalists, some ofthem pretty respected I think,
would DM me asking me forcomments on things, thinking it
(06:45):
was Carol One of them.
I sort of did feel bad aboutthis one.
She DM'd me and I kept goingwith her.
I made up an assistant namedKayla, who I put in touch with
her to coordinate my schedule.
I had this whole crazy thingwhere I was like Carol is too
(07:06):
busy for a phone interview but,she's given a few things you can
quote her on.
I was like really trying tocalibrate it to be just crazy
enough, where it was obviously ajoke, but like can I trick this
person into posting it?
I think she figured outsomewhere along the way that she
was not talking to the actualCarol Lombardini.
(07:27):
But there were multiple peoplewho used something crazy.
I had tweeted as if it weretrue.
One was like a big journalistwith 300,000 followers or
something and I immediatelytweeted back at them.
You are using me as a source.
I am making a parody Twitteraccount.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Which, to be fair, it does say in your bio Cat Mom
recovering Buffy addict.
Lead negotiator for the AMPTP.
Parody of a person.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Hey, but who reads?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
anymore, Exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Little by little, the account took on its own life.
Some of the jokes startedgetting more and more people
sharing them and I was like, oh,it seems like people are
starting to pay attention.
Then somebody I respect, whowas involved in negotiations,
reached out to me and was likewhat you're doing is meaningful,
it's getting to them.
That was the first time I waslike, oh wow, maybe there's
(08:27):
something else going on beyondme just poking fun at this sad
small lady.
Because of the anonymity thing.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
This account can speak truth to power and,
speaking as one of the workerswho was on strike, we needed
something to rally around.
In that moment, fake Carolcreated a face that we could all
get behind.
You would tweet something andit was like, yeah, this is what
we're doing.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Fake Carol humanized the conflict in the most perfect
way.
Otherwise it was just like wewere fighting the studios and
they feel like this omnipotentmonolith.
But the fact that it's all runby this one woman who works out
of the Galleria, it's absurd.
I mean, when you boil it downto that and all of a sudden it's
like, oh, we could actually winthis.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
And it's also the banality of that.
I do think it's kind of evil.
With your legal education, youdevote your one life to
depressing workers' wages acrossan entire industry on behalf of
a handful of multinationalconglomerates.
That's kind of an evil choice.
(09:33):
In my book there were timeswhen I was like should I feel
bad that I'm making fun of thiswoman?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Nah.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Anytime I would get near a sense of feeling sorry
for her.
I constantly come back to no,what she's doing is wrong.
I guess somebody has tonegotiate on behalf of the
billionaires.
But in the context of wherethis business has gone in,
seeing the human result in reallife, I've been in the situation
(10:01):
of I've got to think ofsomething else to do.
I can't stay in LA.
It's fucking heartbreaking.
And to look at the system thatwas created and this person
makes 3 million a year orwhatever to contribute to that.
And then you look at thebanality of it a lady in a mall
who's grinding down an entireindustry of people.
(10:24):
I wanted to counter that to bea force for good.
As the strike went on, Istarted to see the influence
growing.
Even now, the account only hasabout 6,000 followers.
It's not, objectively, amassive social media following.
It's just that among thosefollowers were an unbelievable
(10:47):
amount of writers andjournalists, people in the
Hollywood community.
I would say it went Hollywoodviral.
After several months there wasa situation where we'd been on
strike for a while and then thestudios invited the negotiating
committee to a meeting.
It was basically the first timeit sounded like there might be
some progress.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Right, I remember that there were all these rumors
floating around like this is itwe're going to get a deal and
it has to be now or else?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Then they got the negotiating committee in there
and basically just lectured themand it ended up in another
impasse.
At that point I wrote a fakeletter from Carol and that was
when I felt like, okay, I knowthis voice.
Now you know, I know what I'mdoing here.
And it kind of locked in for mehow to write as this funny
(11:36):
character but also use it toshine a light on what they were
doing to try to counter theirmisinformation.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And now a reading from Fate Carol's letter to the
AMPTP.
Dear AMPTP members, after 102days of doing jack shit outside
of cutting down some trees andidly hoping writers lose their
homes, we sat down with the WGAlast night and, in bad faith,
grabbed them by the metaphoricalear and gave them a very stern
talking to about how they'relucky.
(12:07):
We even offered what we did andwere the smart geniuses with
all the power around here, andit's time to end the strike and
for them to get their littleasses back to work making big
fat hit shows and movies fordaddy to monetize Yours in
mutual greed.
Carol Lombardini.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Speaking of countering information, didn't a
profile on Carol come out inthe New York Times around the
same time?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yes, and it was clearly written to launder her
reputation.
Like we have a grown-up,competent negotiator and she's
doing a great job.
There was one line in it, areading from the New York Times
profile on Carol Lombardini andshe's doing a great job.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
There was one line in it, a reading from the New York
.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Times profile on Carol.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Lombardini, a parody account just popped up on
Twitter.
Yes, carol is aware of it.
No, she is not amused.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
I remember reading that article in bed, putting my
phone down and just laughing sohard.
That kept me going for monthsLike, whatever else happens,
that was enough.
No, she is not amused.
So towards the end, wheneverything was coming down to
(13:19):
the wire, it got insane.
It was this fever pitch ofevery day.
Everything I was posting, I wasgetting such insane feedback.
Everyone was sharing.
Every post was getting like athousand likes.
David Simon, the creator of theWire, tweeted some really nice
thing.
It felt like being blasted byour fire hose of compliments and
(13:42):
goodwill, like being cheered onfrom people I really respected.
Then we got to the last day ofthe strike.
I was chaperoning a kid'sbirthday party.
We had like 30 third graders ina big party with a bouncy house
and stuff.
It quickly devolves into likechild Thunderdome.
(14:05):
I'm getting this barrage oftexts.
I knew the strike was ending.
They kept doing the last bestand final offer dance.
I was at this party.
That in and of itself felt likethe Normandy beach scenes from.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Saving Private.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Ryan, everywhere I look, some kid is crying or hurt
or needs something and I'm nottotally glued to my phone but
because it was the last hours ofthe strike, everyone was like
you have to have the perfectfinal tweet.
And I was like, yeah, what do Isay?
And I tweeted a bunch of stuffand it kind of went viral.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Well, we left, we cried, we fucked around, we
found out, we murdered sometrees and we wished a little
light homelessness on certainpeople.
But overall, I think we canagree.
I personally did a great job.
Now, if you'll excuse us, weneed to go at tone.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
And I basically wake up in the morning and my DMs are
the New Yorker Vanity Fair, theHollywood Reporter.
Every publication was like ifyou want to reveal yourself, can
we please have the exclusive?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
For the record, you also had a DM from the Hollywood
Confessional, but we were coolwith you staying anonymous.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Oh my God, did you DM me?
I'm so sorry.
I was so overwhelmed.
I remember having a breakdownas to what any of this means.
What am I supposed to do, like?
How am I supposed to feel?
How am I supposed to navigatewhat felt like a very intense
pressure to reveal myself?
The strike was ending.
(15:33):
I was feeling so much love andsupport for the fake Carol thing
.
All this press was wanting tointerview me.
But the real me I'm like at thelowest point in my career.
I have not worked in four years.
I just got kicked off the guildinsurance.
For the first time in 10 yearsI've been, really since the
(15:55):
pandemic, in an incredibly darkplace, not seeing any hope or
reasons for optimism.
I had been somewhat established.
I worked steadily for anextended period of time.
I've had some success and itjust felt like the rug had
gotten pulled out from under me.
I'm looking at other careerpaths like what am I going to do
(16:16):
?
Instead?
It feels like I can't keepdoing this and providing for my
family or have a stable life.
I never started the Carol thingto get anything out of it.
It was never like I'm going todo this funny thing and make it
go viral and everyone's going towant to hire me.
People kind of put that onCarol.
There was this constant refrainof oh, when the strike's over,
(16:39):
you guys need to hire thisperson or like, give Carol an
overall deal.
I know it's just social mediapeople saying nice things to
show that they liked what you'redoing, but I don't know it also
affected me.
I was like yeah, that would bemy dream that this would end in
Somebody would give me a job togo back to.
(16:59):
So when the press stuff startedhappening, I also felt this
pressure.
A couple of people in my orbitwere like you need to take as
much advantage of this as youcan.
You've got a limited windowwhere you've got the attention
of Hollywood and that's a reallyhard thing to get.
You need to do whatever you canto capitalize on this and just,
(17:22):
I don't know something feltwrong about that.
Do whatever you can tocapitalize on this and just, I
don't know something felt wrongabout that.
I talked to some people I knewwho were high level in the guild
, trying to get as much adviceas I could from enough different
people to get a handle on.
What does this whole thing meanBeyond the distortion field of
social media?
How significant even you know,was it?
One of the points that was madeto me was listen, this is a
(17:44):
weapon.
You reduce this scaryorganization and entity down to
a much more understandable humanthing.
So, going forward, it'ssomething that might be, you
know, helpful.
Again, this person wasencouraging me.
Like, look, if you come out andit's just you, the thing loses
all its power, and I agreed withthat.
(18:07):
But I had to figure it out formyself.
Going back to how the whole fakeCarol thing started being
surrounded by other reallyengaged, inspiring writers and
labor organizers.
That was the secret sauce.
It's very easy for me to make ajoke about the Cheesecake
Factory and the Galleria andmake up some stupid cocktail
(18:30):
that Carol would like to drinkthat's, you know, very
low-hanging fruit and stuff.
But I think what resonated withpeople were those moments when
we didn't know what was going onbut the studios were putting
out this constant drumbeat ofmisinformation meant to prey
upon all our fears and anxietiesand get us to take a bad deal,
(18:53):
because that's how you breaklabor and to have that group of
people from whom I was learningwhat was going on while it was
going on.
I think that's what gave theCarol account a certain amount
of credibility.
Whatever authenticity it had,it was because there was a
community of people I wasinteracting with that were
(19:15):
heavily influencing it.
Carol was all of us, Not justthat group text, but everybody I
talked to on the lines, peopleI would see on Twitter that did
inspiring things to lifteverybody else up.
To me, that was the stakes ofwhat this was about.
(19:38):
Where I netted out was I gave aninterview to the Hollywood
Reporter.
They were one of the onlypeople who offered to preserve
my anonymity.
Also, the reporter I hadinteracted with on a picket line
.
I felt like I could trust her.
She doesn't know that, sheknows me, but she knows me.
And there were things I wantedto say, things I wanted people
(20:00):
to know about me and what I wastrying to do.
So I did that and that came outon Tuesday or Wednesday.
And then we had the end ofStrike Writers Meeting at the
Hollywood Palladium.
The last time I was there, Ithink I was seeing LCD Sound
System or something A huge musicvenue packed with writers, the
(20:23):
whole stage, Ellen Stutzman, thewhole guild's up there, and I'm
in the far back balcony withsome of my friends waiting to
hear from leadership how it wentand what they thought.
And as they're getting into it,Chris Kaiser is doing this thing
where he gives a superinspiring speech and everybody's
(20:43):
applauding and standing ovatingand he does a thing like drew
carey standing ovation, greenenvelope, joelle garfinkel
standing ovation, and then hesays fake carol.
And I just intimidated to seethe whole fucking place a
(21:04):
standing ovation.
I'm so glad that I wasanonymous because I could enjoy
that moment free of beingself-conscious.
I could just sit there,invisible and feel it.
I had been wrestling with.
What is this thing?
What does it mean to me nowthat the strike is over, and
(21:28):
what that did for me was itreleased me to feel like, okay,
this was impactful If it's beingmentioned in the same breath as
people who had done way biggerthings than I had.
It helped me accept that, yeah,you're not crazy.
There was something kind ofmeaningful about that, but at
(21:49):
the same time, it felt veryemotional because my confidence
as a creative person was at anall-time low.
Sitting down in the morning andworking on projects, I felt this
constant, overwhelming sense ofyou know, why are you even
trying?
It's like imposter syndrome.
(22:09):
If you were really talented,you would still be working
Successful.
I'm sure every writer canrelate to that voice in your
head You're a fucking crazyperson.
Why are you doing this?
And that voice for me in thelast few years had gotten really
loud, but that night at thePalladium I realized I didn't
(22:32):
want to reveal myself.
What I finally accepted was that, even if nothing comes out of
it, if there's no cash andprizes associated with this
parody Twitter account, itrestored my confidence.
I felt like you got theattention.
All these people that you lookat and objectively believe are
better, more successful,operating at a higher level than
(22:55):
you.
Those people all stopped andnoticed and I think I don't know
.
I think I needed that.
I feel like writers.
We use hope and optimism asfuel.
Why would you sit alone in aroom doing homework for your
whole life if you didn't havethis naive, deluded belief that
(23:16):
the words that are falling outof your head and onto the screen
are going to have value?
Everyone who works in thisbusiness knows that.
You're constantly comparingyourself to everybody else and
you're constantly fighting thisbattle to prove that you deserve
to be here, and I feel likewith Fake Carol, I got that back
(23:36):
.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
That's beautiful.
Thank you so much for sharingboth of these stories with us
the story of fake carol and thestory of real you.
It's kind of both a personalstory and a story about all of
us, and so I'm wondering if youcould write them both an ending,
what?
What do you hope would happenfor you and for the industry as
(24:02):
a whole?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Hmm, I hope for me what I hope for everybody that
we all can continue to pursueand achieve and live out our
creative dreams, whatever theymay be.
I hope we can do that in anindustry and a landscape that is
still hospitable to human life.
From the pandemic into theNetflix stock correction, into
(24:26):
the strike, into the post-strikeGod, the past few years have
been an endless litany ofhorrors for this industry and
it's really been impossible tonavigate.
Having gone through this longperiod of time where work slowed
down like way down, I feel likeI've gone through the whole
(24:47):
cycle of grief about my careerand in some ways, it's been
helpful to have that ego death.
I don't know what will happen.
I've had some opportunitiesthat have come my way.
I don't know if there'll beanything concrete, but it's
opened some doors and, more thananything, it's been clarifying
(25:07):
for me just in terms of my ownrelationship to my own writing.
Fake Carol reminded me of thejoy of just writing something
for fun, to entertain myself andmy friends and to make other
writers laugh, and how much Ilove I just love writers.
It helped me get back to thesimple, pure reason we all start
(25:30):
to do this thing.
I hope for myself what I hopefor everybody that we can, one
way or another, as soon aspossible, find our way back into
doing the thing that we love.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Amen to that.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story with us.
Go create in peace wow, thatquickly became one of my
favorite stories oh, I know, metoo.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
I did not expect.
I didn't really know what toexpect, I guess yeah when we
first found out that we weregoing to um be hearing from this
person.
It's like you have an image ofwho it might be right right and
like I guess I don't know, maybeI'm guilty of, of doing some of
(26:15):
the things that they mentionedin this confession, of like sort
of putting things on fake Carol, like, oh, fake Carol, like
somebody would give this persona job and somebody, oh, like
this, they must be like this.
And I sort of imagined thatthis is probably, you know,
somebody who's just like rolling.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, and what I really loved about it is what a
hopeful tone it ended on.
I thought that was beautifuland it like really reminded me
sort of why we all write.
It's not just to put things outinto the void, it's to say
something and it gives uspurpose.
And the way Fate Carol foundtheir purpose through the
account and found their love forwriting again, that was just so
(26:54):
beautiful.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, I think it was like the ultimate act of
rebellion.
Yeah, I mean, you know, as partof this industry is like the
pressure to sell yourself right,and the opportunity was there
(27:15):
for this person.
They created this thing notreally expecting anything from
it, and then it kind of blew upand then it was like they were
faced with this choice ofwhether or not to try to
capitalize on that, and I lovethat they chose not to do so and
then that that brought themback to, like you say, that sort
of sense of why they do thisand why we all do this.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I mean, that's a perfect third act, if I've ever
heard one.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, agreed, and also, not to be underestimated,
the power of leaving the accountanonymous.
I mean, we have IATSEnegotiations going on right now.
There should be JR and I areboth members of Local 871.
And there is supposed to be,hopefully, some kind of
(28:02):
announcement, I think onWednesday, which will have
actually already transpired bythe time you guys are listening
to this, so you may know moreabout it than we do right now.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I hope we don't go back to strike talk.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Oh God, yeah, I know, and I could go on.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I know everything about organized labor now, just
from you, Megan.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
You're welcome, but you know, hopefully, like fake
Carol, is a weapon that will notbe needed, but in the event
that it becomes necessary, youcan follow fake carol at.
It's me, carol, am ptp ontwitter and, hey, you can follow
us while you're at it at fessup hollywood twitter or, uh,
(28:48):
instagram, or that's pretty muchthe only two that we even try
to keep up with, so I guessthat's about it.
And coming up only two that weeven try to keep up with, so I
guess that's about it.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
And coming up in two weeks, we finally have our
interview with Mo Ryan.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
For reals this time.
For real this time.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
It's an incredible interview.
I think you all are going tolove it, so tune in then.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Thank you guys so much for joining us.
We will talk to you next timehere on the Hollywood
Confessional.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And until then, go create in peace.
The Hollywood Confessional isproduced by Megan Dane and Jair
Zamora-Thal.
Joelle Garfinkel is ourco-producer and AJ Thal is our
post-production coordinator andeditor.
Our cast today Timothy Wardell,anna Rapallo.
(29:38):
Special effects provided byZapSplat and Pixabay.
Hollywood Confessional is aNinth Way Media production.
Follow us on socials atFessUpHollywood.
In nomine Cinema e TV Espiritu Streaming.
Amen.
Hello, hollywood, faithful,welcome back to another episode
of the Hollywood Confessional.
I'm your podcast priest, jairZamorathal.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
And I'm Megan Dane and um psych.
We told you guys last time thatwe were going to be
interviewing Mo Ryan this week.
We are super excited to bringthat interview to you shortly.
However, we have a very specialsurprise guest this week.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I am very excited for this guest.
I'm very excited to showeverybody our Mo Ryan interview,
but this guest is also veryexciting to me.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, we didn't really know what was going to
happen with this story.
So just a very brief intro tothose who might not be familiar
Back during the writer's strikeof 2023, I'm going to say that
like it's a historical moment orsomething.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Why does that feel so far in the past when you say
the year?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
It does.
Yeah, it seems like an epic ago.
So back in 2023, when we hadthe writer strikes, there was an
individual who provided a verypowerful public service by
creating a parody account ofCarol Lombardini, who was the
lead negotiator for the AMPTPbasically the studio union at
that time and this parodyaccount is called it's Me, Carol
(01:31):
, and it kind of kept us allgoing in a rough time.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
I'm going to be honest.
When I first saw it I reallythought it was Carol.
Because of the articles thatwere coming out in Deadline, I
was like, oh my god, she is thatme.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
This is the true Carol.
And so you know, everybody waslike oh, who is it, who is it,
who is the real Carol.
And so now we know.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Now we know.
But in true Hollywood,confessional fashion, we are not
unmasking fake Carol.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
But will fake Carol unmask themselves?
Let's step into the booth andfind out.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Forgive me, Father, for I am not the real Carol
Lombardini.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Good to get that cleared up.
So tell us who you really are.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
And maybe who Carol is and why you decided to
impersonate this woman who,until about a year ago, I guess,
a lot of us had probably nevereven heard of?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Okay, back in 2023, before the writer's strike had
started and we were still innegotiations, I was on several
group texts with other writersIn the run-up to the strike.
Everybody would be sharinglinks and information analysis
as to what was going on, and oneday I was like what is the
AMPTP?
And they explained to me thatit's this organization that
(03:00):
works on behalf of studiosthat's run by lawyers, operated
by this lady out of a mall inSherman Oaks.
I just remember thinking thatis the craziest fucking thing
I've ever heard.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
For any of our listeners who may not be
familiar, the AMPTP is theAlliance of Motion Picture and
Television Producers.
It's an association ofcompanies, kind of like a union
is an association of individuals, and the lady in question,
carol Lombardini, is the AMPTP'spresident.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
According to their own website.
Carol has worked for the AMPTPsince its formation in 1982.
She serves as chief negotiatorfor more than 80 industry-wide
labor negotiations on behalf ofmore than 350 motion picture and
television producers.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
And some of those producers are pillars of the
industry.
We're talking Disney, nbc,netflix, amazon, apple, warner
Brothers.
They're all members of theAMPTP.
And little trivia the officesare actually located at the
Sherman Oaks Galleria, wherethey were sublet to the AMPTP by
Warner Brothers during the2007-2008 writer's strike.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
It all comes full circles.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
So, leading up to the 2023 strikes, we were facing a
lot of fear and anxiety and whenI found out it all ran through
this one lady.
I immediately looked her up onGoogle and she's in this sort of
business casual pantsuit orsomething and it was like, oh,
this is so funny.
(04:37):
That would be a funny Twitteraccount.
I refuse to call it X.
So, anyway, I registered thename it's me, carol A-M-P-T-P,
and I just kind of sat on it fora while.
Then the writer's strike beganand I had to work a day job, so
(04:59):
I would go out and pick it whenI could like I could sneak out
on a Friday or do an earlymorning shift.
But by the first or second weekI was starting to feel like, oh
, we're going to be doing thisfor a while, and I started to
feel an intense sort of FOMO,not being able to be out there
with the other writers and myfriends.
I wanted to be helpful and tobe a part of this, this bigger
(05:23):
labor action that I believed inso deeply.
I wanted to feel connected.
One day I took a walk and onthe walk I decided, okay, I'm
going to make this account.
I got the picture, wrote herbio.
I wrote several initial tweetslike what might this lady be
thinking about?
And one of them I'm going toparaphrase my own joke and ruin
(05:47):
it it was something about hermother I can't remember.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Oh, I got it.
I got it.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
It was like I actually love writers, and if
there's one thing I learned frommy mother, it's if you love
something, make it suffer.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
And that was the genesis of the fake Carol
account.
That joke started gettingpassed around and retweeted.
Several people startedfollowing and sharing the
account and some of those earlysupporters were key people with
big followings.
So it started slowly at firstand then it started to snowball.
(06:23):
Early on I was just trying tofigure out how much of this do I
want to seem real?
You know like you create anaccount and you're trying to
trick people into thinking it'slegitimately that person so you
can say crazy shit and it'sfunny.
Multiple journalists, some ofthem pretty respected I think,
would DM me asking me forcomments on things, thinking it
(06:45):
was Carol One of them.
I sort of did feel bad aboutthis one.
She DM'd me and I kept goingwith her.
I made up an assistant namedKayla, who I put in touch with
her to coordinate my schedule.
I had this whole crazy thingwhere I was like Carol is too
(07:06):
busy for a phone interview but,she's given a few things you can
quote her on.
I was like really trying tocalibrate it to be just crazy
enough, where it was obviously ajoke, but like can I trick this
person into posting it?
I think she figured outsomewhere along the way that she
was not talking to the actualCarol Lombardini.
(07:27):
But there were multiple peoplewho used something crazy.
I had tweeted as if it weretrue.
One was like a big journalistwith 300,000 followers or
something and I immediatelytweeted back at them.
You are using me as a source.
I am making a parody Twitteraccount.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Which, to be fair, it does say in your bio Cat Mom
recovering Buffy addict.
Lead negotiator for the AMPTP.
Parody of a person.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Hey, but who reads?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
anymore, Exactly.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Little by little, the account took on its own life.
Some of the jokes startedgetting more and more people
sharing them and I was like, oh,it seems like people are
starting to pay attention.
Then somebody I respect, whowas involved in negotiations,
reached out to me and was likewhat you're doing is meaningful,
it's getting to them.
That was the first time I waslike, oh wow, maybe there's
(08:27):
something else going on beyondme just poking fun at this sad
small lady.
Because of the anonymity thing.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
This account can speak truth to power and,
speaking as one of the workerswho was on strike, we needed
something to rally around.
In that moment, fake Carolcreated a face that we could all
get behind.
You would tweet something andit was like, yeah, this is what
we're doing.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Fake Carol humanized the conflict in the most perfect
way.
Otherwise it was just like wewere fighting the studios and
they feel like this omnipotentmonolith.
But the fact that it's all runby this one woman who works out
of the Galleria, it's absurd.
I mean, when you boil it downto that and all of a sudden it's
like, oh, we could actually winthis.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
And it's also the banality of that.
I do think it's kind of evil.
With your legal education, youdevote your one life to
depressing workers' wages acrossan entire industry on behalf of
a handful of multinationalconglomerates.
That's kind of an evil choice.
(09:33):
In my book there were timeswhen I was like should I feel
bad that I'm making fun of thiswoman?
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Nah.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Anytime I would get near a sense of feeling sorry
for her.
I constantly come back to no,what she's doing is wrong.
I guess somebody has tonegotiate on behalf of the
billionaires.
But in the context of wherethis business has gone in,
seeing the human result in reallife, I've been in the situation
(10:01):
of I've got to think ofsomething else to do.
I can't stay in LA.
It's fucking heartbreaking.
And to look at the system thatwas created and this person
makes 3 million a year orwhatever to contribute to that.
And then you look at thebanality of it a lady in a mall
who's grinding down an entireindustry of people.
(10:24):
I wanted to counter that to bea force for good.
As the strike went on, Istarted to see the influence
growing.
Even now, the account only hasabout 6,000 followers.
It's not, objectively, amassive social media following.
It's just that among thosefollowers were an unbelievable
(10:47):
amount of writers andjournalists, people in the
Hollywood community.
I would say it went Hollywoodviral.
After several months there wasa situation where we'd been on
strike for a while and then thestudios invited the negotiating
committee to a meeting.
It was basically the first timeit sounded like there might be
some progress.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Right, I remember that there were all these rumors
floating around like this is itwe're going to get a deal and
it has to be now or else?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Then they got the negotiating committee in there
and basically just lectured themand it ended up in another
impasse.
At that point I wrote a fakeletter from Carol and that was
when I felt like, okay, I knowthis voice.
Now you know, I know what I'mdoing here.
And it kind of locked in for mehow to write as this funny
(11:36):
character but also use it toshine a light on what they were
doing to try to counter theirmisinformation.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
And now a reading from Fate Carol's letter to the
AMPTP.
Dear AMPTP members, after 102days of doing jack shit outside
of cutting down some trees andidly hoping writers lose their
homes, we sat down with the WGAlast night and, in bad faith,
grabbed them by the metaphoricalear and gave them a very stern
talking to about how they'relucky.
(12:07):
We even offered what we did andwere the smart geniuses with
all the power around here, andit's time to end the strike and
for them to get their littleasses back to work making big
fat hit shows and movies fordaddy to monetize Yours in
mutual greed.
Carol Lombardini.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Speaking of countering information, didn't a
profile on Carol come out inthe New York Times around the
same time?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Yes, and it was clearly written to launder her
reputation.
Like we have a grown-up,competent negotiator and she's
doing a great job.
There was one line in it, areading from the New York Times
profile on Carol Lombardini andshe's doing a great job.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
There was one line in it, a reading from the New York
.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Times profile on Carol.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Lombardini, a parody account just popped up on
Twitter.
Yes, carol is aware of it.
No, she is not amused.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
I remember reading that article in bed, putting my
phone down and just laughing sohard.
That kept me going for monthsLike, whatever else happens,
that was enough.
No, she is not amused.
So towards the end, wheneverything was coming down to
(13:19):
the wire, it got insane.
It was this fever pitch ofevery day.
Everything I was posting, I wasgetting such insane feedback.
Everyone was sharing.
Every post was getting like athousand likes.
David Simon, the creator of theWire, tweeted some really nice
thing.
It felt like being blasted byour fire hose of compliments and
(13:42):
goodwill, like being cheered onfrom people I really respected.
Then we got to the last day ofthe strike.
I was chaperoning a kid'sbirthday party.
We had like 30 third graders ina big party with a bouncy house
and stuff.
It quickly devolves into likechild Thunderdome.
(14:05):
I'm getting this barrage oftexts.
I knew the strike was ending.
They kept doing the last bestand final offer dance.
I was at this party.
That in and of itself felt likethe Normandy beach scenes from.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Saving Private.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Ryan, everywhere I look, some kid is crying or hurt
or needs something and I'm nottotally glued to my phone but
because it was the last hours ofthe strike, everyone was like
you have to have the perfectfinal tweet.
And I was like, yeah, what do Isay?
And I tweeted a bunch of stuffand it kind of went viral.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Well, we left, we cried, we fucked around, we
found out, we murdered sometrees and we wished a little
light homelessness on certainpeople.
But overall, I think we canagree.
I personally did a great job.
Now, if you'll excuse us, weneed to go at tone.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
And I basically wake up in the morning and my DMs are
the New Yorker Vanity Fair, theHollywood Reporter.
Every publication was like ifyou want to reveal yourself, can
we please have the exclusive?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
For the record, you also had a DM from the Hollywood
Confessional, but we were coolwith you staying anonymous.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Oh my God, did you DM me?
I'm so sorry.
I was so overwhelmed.
I remember having a breakdownas to what any of this means.
What am I supposed to do, like?
How am I supposed to feel?
How am I supposed to navigatewhat felt like a very intense
pressure to reveal myself?
The strike was ending.
(15:33):
I was feeling so much love andsupport for the fake Carol thing
.
All this press was wanting tointerview me.
But the real me I'm like at thelowest point in my career.
I have not worked in four years.
I just got kicked off the guildinsurance.
For the first time in 10 yearsI've been, really since the
(15:55):
pandemic, in an incredibly darkplace, not seeing any hope or
reasons for optimism.
I had been somewhat established.
I worked steadily for anextended period of time.
I've had some success and itjust felt like the rug had
gotten pulled out from under me.
I'm looking at other careerpaths like what am I going to do
(16:16):
?
Instead?
It feels like I can't keepdoing this and providing for my
family or have a stable life.
I never started the Carol thingto get anything out of it.
It was never like I'm going todo this funny thing and make it
go viral and everyone's going towant to hire me.
People kind of put that onCarol.
There was this constant refrainof oh, when the strike's over,
(16:39):
you guys need to hire thisperson or like, give Carol an
overall deal.
I know it's just social mediapeople saying nice things to
show that they liked what you'redoing, but I don't know it also
affected me.
I was like yeah, that would bemy dream that this would end in
Somebody would give me a job togo back to.
(16:59):
So when the press stuff startedhappening, I also felt this
pressure.
A couple of people in my orbitwere like you need to take as
much advantage of this as youcan.
You've got a limited windowwhere you've got the attention
of Hollywood and that's a reallyhard thing to get.
You need to do whatever you canto capitalize on this and just,
(17:22):
I don't know something feltwrong about that.
Do whatever you can tocapitalize on this and just, I
don't know something felt wrongabout that.
I talked to some people I knewwho were high level in the guild
, trying to get as much adviceas I could from enough different
people to get a handle on.
What does this whole thing meanBeyond the distortion field of
social media?
How significant even you know,was it?
One of the points that was madeto me was listen, this is a
(17:44):
weapon.
You reduce this scaryorganization and entity down to
a much more understandable humanthing.
So, going forward, it'ssomething that might be, you
know, helpful.
Again, this person wasencouraging me.
Like, look, if you come out andit's just you, the thing loses
all its power, and I agreed withthat.
(18:07):
But I had to figure it out formyself.
Going back to how the whole fakeCarol thing started being
surrounded by other reallyengaged, inspiring writers and
labor organizers.
That was the secret sauce.
It's very easy for me to make ajoke about the Cheesecake
Factory and the Galleria andmake up some stupid cocktail
(18:30):
that Carol would like to drinkthat's, you know, very
low-hanging fruit and stuff.
But I think what resonated withpeople were those moments when
we didn't know what was going onbut the studios were putting
out this constant drumbeat ofmisinformation meant to prey
upon all our fears and anxietiesand get us to take a bad deal,
(18:53):
because that's how you breaklabor and to have that group of
people from whom I was learningwhat was going on while it was
going on.
I think that's what gave theCarol account a certain amount
of credibility.
Whatever authenticity it had,it was because there was a
community of people I wasinteracting with that were
(19:15):
heavily influencing it.
Carol was all of us, Not justthat group text, but everybody I
talked to on the lines, peopleI would see on Twitter that did
inspiring things to lifteverybody else up.
To me, that was the stakes ofwhat this was about.
(19:38):
Where I netted out was I gave aninterview to the Hollywood
Reporter.
They were one of the onlypeople who offered to preserve
my anonymity.
Also, the reporter I hadinteracted with on a picket line
.
I felt like I could trust her.
She doesn't know that, sheknows me, but she knows me.
And there were things I wantedto say, things I wanted people
(20:00):
to know about me and what I wastrying to do.
So I did that and that came outon Tuesday or Wednesday.
And then we had the end ofStrike Writers Meeting at the
Hollywood Palladium.
The last time I was there, Ithink I was seeing LCD Sound
System or something A huge musicvenue packed with writers, the
(20:23):
whole stage, Ellen Stutzman, thewhole guild's up there, and I'm
in the far back balcony withsome of my friends waiting to
hear from leadership how it wentand what they thought.
And as they're getting into it,Chris Kaiser is doing this thing
where he gives a superinspiring speech and everybody's
(20:43):
applauding and standing ovatingand he does a thing like drew
carey standing ovation, greenenvelope, joelle garfinkel
standing ovation, and then hesays fake carol.
And I just intimidated to seethe whole fucking place a
(21:04):
standing ovation.
I'm so glad that I wasanonymous because I could enjoy
that moment free of beingself-conscious.
I could just sit there,invisible and feel it.
I had been wrestling with.
What is this thing?
What does it mean to me nowthat the strike is over, and
(21:28):
what that did for me was itreleased me to feel like, okay,
this was impactful If it's beingmentioned in the same breath as
people who had done way biggerthings than I had.
It helped me accept that, yeah,you're not crazy.
There was something kind ofmeaningful about that, but at
(21:49):
the same time, it felt veryemotional because my confidence
as a creative person was at anall-time low.
Sitting down in the morning andworking on projects, I felt this
constant, overwhelming sense ofyou know, why are you even
trying?
It's like imposter syndrome.
(22:09):
If you were really talented,you would still be working
Successful.
I'm sure every writer canrelate to that voice in your
head You're a fucking crazyperson.
Why are you doing this?
And that voice for me in thelast few years had gotten really
loud, but that night at thePalladium I realized I didn't
(22:32):
want to reveal myself.
What I finally accepted was that, even if nothing comes out of
it, if there's no cash andprizes associated with this
parody Twitter account, itrestored my confidence.
I felt like you got theattention.
All these people that you lookat and objectively believe are
better, more successful,operating at a higher level than
(22:55):
you.
Those people all stopped andnoticed and I think I don't know
.
I think I needed that.
I feel like writers.
We use hope and optimism asfuel.
Why would you sit alone in aroom doing homework for your
whole life if you didn't havethis naive, deluded belief that
(23:16):
the words that are falling outof your head and onto the screen
are going to have value?
Everyone who works in thisbusiness knows that.
You're constantly comparingyourself to everybody else and
you're constantly fighting thisbattle to prove that you deserve
to be here, and I feel likewith Fake Carol, I got that back
(23:36):
.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
That's beautiful.
Thank you so much for sharingboth of these stories with us
the story of fake carol and thestory of real you.
It's kind of both a personalstory and a story about all of
us, and so I'm wondering if youcould write them both an ending,
what?
What do you hope would happenfor you and for the industry as
(24:02):
a whole?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Hmm, I hope for me what I hope for everybody that
we all can continue to pursueand achieve and live out our
creative dreams, whatever theymay be.
I hope we can do that in anindustry and a landscape that is
still hospitable to human life.
From the pandemic into theNetflix stock correction, into
(24:26):
the strike, into the post-strikeGod, the past few years have
been an endless litany ofhorrors for this industry and
it's really been impossible tonavigate.
Having gone through this longperiod of time where work slowed
down like way down, I feel likeI've gone through the whole
(24:47):
cycle of grief about my careerand in some ways, it's been
helpful to have that ego death.
I don't know what will happen.
I've had some opportunitiesthat have come my way.
I don't know if there'll beanything concrete, but it's
opened some doors and, more thananything, it's been clarifying
(25:07):
for me just in terms of my ownrelationship to my own writing.
Fake Carol reminded me of thejoy of just writing something
for fun, to entertain myself andmy friends and to make other
writers laugh, and how much Ilove I just love writers.
It helped me get back to thesimple, pure reason we all start
(25:30):
to do this thing.
I hope for myself what I hopefor everybody that we can, one
way or another, as soon aspossible, find our way back into
doing the thing that we love.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Amen to that.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story with us.
Go create in peace wow, thatquickly became one of my
favorite stories oh, I know, metoo.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
I did not expect.
I didn't really know what toexpect, I guess yeah when we
first found out that we weregoing to um be hearing from this
person.
It's like you have an image ofwho it might be right right and
like I guess I don't know, maybeI'm guilty of, of doing some of
(26:15):
the things that they mentionedin this confession, of like sort
of putting things on fake Carol, like, oh, fake Carol, like
somebody would give this persona job and somebody, oh, like
this, they must be like this.
And I sort of imagined thatthis is probably, you know,
somebody who's just like rolling.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, and what I really loved about it is what a
hopeful tone it ended on.
I thought that was beautifuland it like really reminded me
sort of why we all write.
It's not just to put things outinto the void, it's to say
something and it gives uspurpose.
And the way Fate Carol foundtheir purpose through the
account and found their love forwriting again, that was just so
(26:54):
beautiful.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, I think it was like the ultimate act of
rebellion.
Yeah, I mean, you know, as partof this industry is like the
pressure to sell yourself right,and the opportunity was there
(27:15):
for this person.
They created this thing notreally expecting anything from
it, and then it kind of blew upand then it was like they were
faced with this choice ofwhether or not to try to
capitalize on that, and I lovethat they chose not to do so and
then that that brought themback to, like you say, that sort
of sense of why they do thisand why we all do this.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I mean, that's a perfect third act, if I've ever
heard one.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Yeah, agreed, and also, not to be underestimated,
the power of leaving the accountanonymous.
I mean, we have IATSEnegotiations going on right now.
There should be JR and I areboth members of Local 871.
And there is supposed to be,hopefully, some kind of
(28:02):
announcement, I think onWednesday, which will have
actually already transpired bythe time you guys are listening
to this, so you may know moreabout it than we do right now.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I hope we don't go back to strike talk.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Oh God, yeah, I know, and I could go on.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I know everything about organized labor now, just
from you, Megan.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
You're welcome, but you know, hopefully, like fake
Carol, is a weapon that will notbe needed, but in the event
that it becomes necessary, youcan follow fake carol at.
It's me, carol, am ptp ontwitter and, hey, you can follow
us while you're at it at fessup hollywood twitter or, uh,
(28:48):
instagram, or that's pretty muchthe only two that we even try
to keep up with, so I guessthat's about it.
And coming up only two that weeven try to keep up with, so I
guess that's about it.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
And coming up in two weeks, we finally have our
interview with Mo Ryan.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
For reals this time.
For real this time.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
It's an incredible interview.
I think you all are going tolove it, so tune in then.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Thank you guys so much for joining us.
We will talk to you next timehere on the Hollywood
Confessional.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
And until then, go create in peace.
The Hollywood Confessional isproduced by Megan Dane and Jair
Zamora-Thal.
Joelle Garfinkel is ourco-producer and AJ Thal is our
post-production coordinator andeditor.
Our cast today Timothy Wardell,anna Rapallo.
(29:38):
Special effects provided byZapSplat and Pixabay.
Hollywood Confessional is aNinth Way Media production.
Follow us on socials atFessUpHollywood.
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