October 10, 2024 • 18 mins
Welcome back Hollywood Faithful!
Surviving the emotional waves of Hollywood layoffs is no small feat. This week, our guest, a project manager in post-production localization, shares their story of how they watched as most of their team disappeared.
Join us for an interesting conversation about the difficulty of survivor's guilt and the uncertainty of a volatile industry.
Connect with us:
Check out some of our favorite shows:
- Screenwriters' Rant Room
- Screaming into the Hollywood Abyss
- It Happened in Hollywood
- The Secret History of Hollywood
Hollywood Confessional is a Ninth Way Media production, produced by Meagan Daine and J.R. Zamora-Thal.
Sound Effects and Music provided by Zapsplat and Pixabay.
Keywords: filmmaking podcast, film podcast, screenwriting podcast, entertainment podcast, Hollywood, filmmaking, writerslife, actorslife, setlife
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
In nomine Cinema e TV , Espiritu Streaming Amen.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello Hollywood faithful, Welcome back to
another episode of the HollywoodConfessional.
I am your podcast priest, MeganDane.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And I'm JR Zamora-Thal and, just to remind
everybody, this is the podcastwhere we invite industry
professionals to share theirdeep, dark Hollywood secrets,
and today we've got a deeper,darker secret, I think.
It involves something I thinkmany of us are going through as
the industry contracts a littlebit, which is layoffs.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We typically start off episodes.
You know, kind of joking aroundin this and that, but we talked
a little bit about itbeforehand.
It's like this is no joke.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
It's very real life.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, some real shit that we're about to get into, so
why not just get into it?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Let's step into the confessional booth.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Forgive me, father, for half my team got laid off
and I didn't.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Survivor's Guilt is real Talk to us.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
I work in post-production.
I'm a project manager for acompany that deals with what's
called localization, which isbasically dubbing and subtitling
.
The way it works is a projectmanager from, say, warner
Brothers brings us a project.
They say we need this subtitledin 42 languages and dubbed in
30 languages by these dates.
We then say for this amount ofwork, here's how much you'll
(01:41):
have to pay us.
Then, as a project manager, Igo out and try to find the best
rates from dubbing andsubtitling studios or from
freelancers and I coordinate thedelivery.
There's a lot of differentscenarios that can come up at
various stages of the process.
For example, we can getsomething dubbed from a studio,
but when the client sees that,they say the actor's reading was
weird on this line or thetranslation doesn't work so I
(02:03):
have to go back to the studioand get it retranslated or have
them bring the actor back in todo it again.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So you basically need training in international
diplomacy to do this.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
There's a lot of back and forth and the job
definitely takes a while tolearn.
I didn't exactly set out towork in localization.
I started my career in scriptdevelopment.
I worked eight or nine years inthe area, first in Europe, then
in the US, and then I did a bitof development for reality TV.
But at some point I startedlooking for something more
stable.
As we all know, there's not alot of stability in the
(02:35):
entertainment industry.
I found out about localizationand I realized okay, this is a
new space I haven't explored.
I was also curious, comingwhere I come from.
I grew up learning English withsubtitles, so I have a deep
respect and appreciation forthis part of TV and filmmaking
being done right.
So I got the job and I startedworking in this area.
(02:56):
I soon realised it was a lotmore work than I had anticipated
but luckily there was oneproject manager who was
especially helpful and reallysupportive.
She'd been working insubtitling a long time, she had
a lot of experience and she wasa big fan of movies and loved
reading just a very, very sweetperson.
So with her help I got settledinto the job and I became part
of what turned out to be a verytight-knit team.
(03:18):
We worked very closely together.
We'd cover for each other.
We helped each other onprojects for years, and then the
industry started to change.
This is late 2022, early 2023.
Chatgpt launched, so there wassuddenly a lot more conversation
about AI.
There was also rumours of awriter's strike.
I started to get nervous, butnobody else seemed worried.
(03:44):
The majority of my colleagueshave worked in this space for
way longer than I have, and themajor companies in this space
have been around for a long time, so these jobs feel very stable
.
The people who get them and stayhere, they kind of know they're
always going to have a job.
So I was trying to raise alarmbells and be like look, this
isn't going to be like anythingwe've ever seen before.
I really feel like this isgoing to affect us in some way.
But everyone else seemed tothink it was smooth sailing,
(04:05):
like, well, they're going tokeep the boat floating like
they've done in the past, andfor a while it seemed like they
were right.
We got all the way through thestrikes with no major layoffs.
But then, at the beginning of2024, the companies started
having sort of mini layoffs.
You'd hear like, oh, these twopeople have been laid off, just
two from this department, andthe way they would justify it
would be oh, you know, duringCOVID we hired so many people
(04:27):
because it was a bigger demand.
So now we're just trimming thefat, which is a terrible term
that I hate, but it's just whatthey were saying.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Did you believe them or did you always have a sense
that this was just the beginning?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I was trying to stay positive.
I figured maybe they weretrying to prevent a big round of
layoffs by doing these littletrims.
But it turns out I was wrong.
One day we woke up and half ourteam said we have these weird
early meetings at 8am with HRand the manager.
What's that about?
It was around the time when wewere supposed to get one-on-one
performance reviews.
(04:59):
We usually get like a 2% raisearound this time.
So I was like oh, I'm sure it'sfine.
In my heart I was even a littlebit jealous because I was like
I don't have a meeting.
What's going on?
I'm not getting a raise?
Oh no.
But I was like it's fine, theydeserve it.
I hope they're even getting alittle bit extra.
I was trying to be happy forthem, but then in the middle of
(05:19):
it, one of my friends sent me amessage saying I'm getting laid
off.
Here's my number in case youwant to contact me.
I was like, yeah, right, whatkind of joke is this at 8am.
But she was like no, this isfor real, I'm getting laid off.
And then, of course, the pennydropped and I was like oh, that
means this person is gettinglaid off and this person is
(05:41):
getting laid off and we justsort of went into panic mode.
I was slacking my directmanager like hey, what's going
on?
Did you know about this?
And she was like no, I didn'tknow.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And it was all like immediate, I mean they weren't
given notice, it was just likeit's over, goodbye.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Oh my God.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
It's basically like a 10, 15 minute meeting per
person.
They would just go in.
Our department director wouldbe there with an HR person.
They would be like here, thisis what's happening.
We're doing mass layoffsbecause we don't have a lot of
work.
You're going to be signed outof everything.
This is your last day, so yougot absolutely zero heads up, no
(06:17):
time to prepare, no time to doanything, and you're just
unceremoniously ejected from thecompany.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
This is so fucking wrong, yeah, not to mention
traumatizing, to everybodyinvolved.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It is.
All of us on the team had gonethrough layoffs in the past.
We know exactly how bad it canfeel and how much of a long-term
effect it can have on yourpsyche.
The first job I cared aboutwhen I moved to LA was with a
video licensing company.
I started from the bottom as anintern and then I slowly moved
up all the way to being adevelopment producer.
That was a very boom and bustkind of company and at the time
(06:48):
I didn't know that's a normalsituation here.
Back in Europe.
I was a grade A student.
I'd always had jobs where I wasappreciated.
Where I've grown, I never wentthrough any sort of layoffs.
I've never been fired.
I kind of associated these jobsto my identity in some way.
So when I landed the job withthe licensing company and
started growing, getting closewith people and everything, then
(07:09):
they had that same thing threerounds of layoffs.
They started trimming everybodyoff, conserving the core team.
I was in my mid-30s and hadnever experienced anything like
this.
I thought I can do whatever Ican prove myself as long as I'm
given a chance.
But they did three rounds oflayoffs and I was part of the
last one, which was the majorityof the people, it was typical,
(07:29):
unceremonious brought into anoffice 10 minute meeting.
Unfortunately, we've signed youoff of everything.
That's it.
Be on your merry way.
Oh, and the funny thing is themorning before my car had been
totaled what?
I was sitting at a stoplightand this guy just rammed into me
and totaled the side of my car.
I still made it to work becauseI was like the car still runs.
I was still trying to be theA-plus employee Showing up at
(07:53):
work.
I was all shaken.
I was already half out of mybody because of that.
And then I got called into thismeeting and it was like guess
what?
You're being laid off.
Oh, my god, I'm so sorry.
At that point I had to laugh.
I was like this is ridiculous.
Everybody was looking at mewith such pity, knowing I'd just
been through that accident, andI was feeling kind of like good
about it.
I was like, yes, you shouldfeel bad.
(08:14):
All of you people who arestaying feel bad for me.
That was the only thing I couldtake.
I was like I don't care aboutyour feelings, I only care about
my feelings.
Right now, you should feel bad.
A week later they called me backand asked if I wanted to come
back as a contractor.
Of course they did no-transcript, and even though it felt like
(08:37):
some sort of redemption, I stillcarry the trauma of that
rejection, and when other peopleget rejected in that way, I
feel for them.
So that morning at my currentjob, when we realised what was
happening, I started relivingall that trauma.
I realised my manager, anotherco-worker and I were the only
three people on my team whodidn't have meetings scheduled,
meaning we were the only oneswho were staying.
So I started talking to themabout how we could best support
(09:00):
the people who were getting laidoff.
We realized that one more ofour team members had a meeting
coming up, a nice projectmanager who had helped me so
much when I started.
She was the most experiencedmember of the team and the
oldest, and she was also takingcare of her elderly parents.
We decided to call her and giveher a heads up for, I don't
know, maybe a little closure,and when we got her on the phone
(09:22):
, she was already crying.
Oh no, oh god, it was superheartbreaking.
We told her what was up and shejust said yeah, I figured.
Nobody ever talks about howtraumatizing it is to be set
aside like that.
People like to think the jobI'm doing doesn't define me, but
I think it does on some level,because we spend so much of our
(09:42):
waking hours with this job andthe people we're working with
and we want some sense ofsecurity and, of course, our
livelihood is tied to it ourmedical insurance so saying,
yeah, well, it doesn't matter,it's just a job, I can get
another job.
It's not true.
Ultimately, around 15% of thecompany, which is a big global
company, got laid off.
The majority of people werefrom the US, because we're the
(10:04):
most expensive employees and nowwe're restructuring, trying to
figure out how we can handle thework from the people who are no
longer working with us.
Since the layoffs, we've beenkeeping in touch with people
from our team and trying tofollow their journey and help in
any way we can, but the realityis very, very few people that
were laid off have been able tofind jobs.
The last time I talked to theproject manager, I could tell
(10:25):
she was not in a good place.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Given this whole experience, have you learned
anything that might help peoplewho have been laid off or think
they might be?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I would say seek therapy immediately, because
back when I got laid off for thefirst time, I didn't.
I just kind of ruminated on itfor years before I actually
started talking about it.
I think it's very important tohave support and talk to people
who have your back, people whounderstand, even if they haven't
gone through it themselves.
It's important to surroundyourself with people who will
validate you instead of justsaying oh, you're going to find
(10:56):
another job, don't worry.
I don't understand this fakestoicism we have to put on when
it comes to these things.
Any other kind of trauma.
It's like, oh, it's terrible,it's such a blow, but we don't
talk about how much layoffsaffect people.
You develop anxiety, youdevelop a lot of fears.
You don't really want to takerisks.
When I started in thelocalization industry, I had a
(11:16):
pull to maybe go back intodevelopment, but I felt like, no
, this is a safe place to be.
I cannot take risksunnecessarily.
It just becomes survival overeverything and you feel like you
kind of have to hold on.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Do you think you're going to be able to hold on to
this job or do you think there'sgoing to be more layoffs?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Considering how evasive my director was when I
last talked to him, I do thinkthere'll be more layoffs.
They're telling us we won'thave another one this year, but
I'm having a lot of troublebelieving them.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
If you could say anything to the people who are
making these decisions, whatwould you say?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Oh my gosh.
So many things Such as, such asdon't do it this way.
I've been talking about this adnauseum with my colleagues.
They are not allowed to do itthis way in Europe.
They have to tell you we aregoing to have layoffs.
They have to give you notice,and it's usually like three
months it's not weeks, unlessyou've documented bad behavior,
issues with your work.
But even that it rarely happens, because they realize that
(12:10):
people depend on their work,even though there's subsidized
medicine there and people don'trely on these jobs as much as
they do in the States.
It's illegal to lay off a bunchof people in a 10-minute session
.
You cannot do that.
People depend on theirlivelihoods, they have kids,
they have elderly parents whorely on them.
This is pretty common senseover there that you cannot do
(12:30):
this.
You're creating generations andgenerations of traumatized
people.
For what?
And you're not getting the bestout of people.
You're just getting people whoare trying to survive and make
it through another day and don'treally give a shit about your
company.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Give people a heads up offer,support.
Don't cut off medical benefits,because that's crazy.
There has to be a different wayto do this, especially in
(12:52):
california.
We're one of the richest statesin the country, in the richest
country in the world.
It's really mind-boggling, whenyou think about it as a
European, that comes herethinking America, land of
possibilities.
I'm like there's so much wealthgoing around.
How is it that we haven'timproved the way of doing this?
So be better.
That's what I would say to them.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Amen.
Thank you so much for burdeningyour soul with us.
Go create in peace with us.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Go create in peace.
Okay, so many things to talkabout in that episode.
One of the things that hits methe hardest is the inhumanity in
the way that these things arehandled, and it reminds me of a
story that I was hearing from afriend just the other day who
experienced some layoffs, and inthat person's situation, they
didn't even get called into anoffice or anything.
They just tried to log ontotheir accounts and found that
(13:46):
they were locked out.
Nobody bothered to even tellthese people that they were
losing their jobs, and that isabsolutely reprehensible.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
It's so infuriating and at the risk of sounding like
an old man shaking his fist atthe sky.
It seems to me that there's suchan epidemic of
non-communication going on thesedays.
I mean, it trickles all the waydown to like I was on an
airplane and somebody wanted theseat next to me and just stood
in the aisle as I had myheadphones on reading a book,
because they didn't want to tapme on the shoulder and ask if
(14:17):
they could sit in the seat nextto me.
They just stood there lookingat me until finally I felt their
presence and looked up.
That's a little creepy.
And that's benign.
It's creepy and benign, but tome it's indicative of a larger
problem that you see in aharmful way when people get laid
off and they're not even toldthat they're laid off.
It's one thing to not be ableto plan if you get told in the
(14:39):
day, but at least you can startdealing with it that day.
I know if it were me I wouldthink tech issue before I got
laid off and this would fuckwith me for a week before I even
realized that I didn't have ajob.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh, that's really true.
That's a great point.
I mean, yeah, that's the thingthat, like communication, is
necessary for human life.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yes, we're social creatures.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
We're social creatures, we have to
communicate, to connect witheach other.
When you remove that elementfrom our interactions, they are
not human interactions anymoreand they remove this piece of
what we are as beings.
And I think, like you say, it'ssort of it's epidemic.
It's everywhere, it's in everyaspect of our lives.
We lose the ability tocommunicate and we end up in
situations where we want to sitin a seat but we feel like we
(15:24):
can't even talk to somebodybecause we've gotten so
conditioned to not being able toexpress things and not being
treated with respect.
I mean, obviously you wouldhave been very happy to say of
course you can sit here, Let meget up and let you get in, or
whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
And as an introvert, I understand the fear or the
adrenaline kick that comes withtalking to a stranger or talking
to somebody and asking for whatyou want.
But there is literally no otherway to get what you want than
to use your voice andcommunicate Right, and if we're
not communicating with eachother, the whole damn system
breaks down.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
That's right, and the fact that this is a top-down
problem is what makes it Trulyharmful.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I love what the confessor wassaying.
If they could talk to thepeople that made these decisions
, whose idea was it to just lockpeople out of their accounts
and not yeah, what cruelmotherfucker thought this was of
(16:23):
their accounts?
And not?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, what cruel motherfucker thought this was
the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Right, I mean, could you not give people a day a week
?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Whose parents didn't hug them enough and teach them
how to be productive members ofsociety.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, that's.
That's clearly the problem.
Parents hug your children.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Don't create sociopaths.
Parents hug your children.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Don't create sociopaths.
If you need a seat, asksomebody.
And if you need any kind ofhelp, if you are experiencing
any kind of struggle related toa layoff, there are some
(17:05):
resources in the Hollywoodcommunity for you.
A couple that we can name isthe Entertainment Community Fund
, as well as our own, JoelGarfinkel's Green Envelope
Grocery Fund, still functioning.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
They will provide different types of assistance
financial assistance and otherkinds for people who are
experiencing a shortfall due tolack of work, and if you can't
find the help that you need andyou just need somebody to help
you find that help please feelfree to reach out to the podcast
.
We're at FessUpHollywood, onInstagram and X, and we would be
(17:32):
more than happy to help lend ahand in your search for what you
need.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Absolutely so.
I hope everyone out there isdoing well and keeping the faith
.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Until next time, go create in peace special effects
provided by zap splat andpixabay.
Hollywood confessional is aninth way media production.
Follow us on socials at fess uphollywood.
In nomine Cinema e TV , Espiritu Streaming Amen.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hello Hollywood faithful, Welcome back to
another episode of the HollywoodConfessional.
I am your podcast priest, MeganDane.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And I'm JR Zamora-Thal and, just to remind
everybody, this is the podcastwhere we invite industry
professionals to share theirdeep, dark Hollywood secrets,
and today we've got a deeper,darker secret, I think.
It involves something I thinkmany of us are going through as
the industry contracts a littlebit, which is layoffs.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
We typically start off episodes.
You know, kind of joking aroundin this and that, but we talked
a little bit about itbeforehand.
It's like this is no joke.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
It's very real life.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, some real shit that we're about to get into, so
why not just get into it?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Let's step into the confessional booth.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Forgive me, father, for half my team got laid off
and I didn't.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Survivor's Guilt is real Talk to us.
Speaker 3 (01:19):
I work in post-production.
I'm a project manager for acompany that deals with what's
called localization, which isbasically dubbing and subtitling
.
The way it works is a projectmanager from, say, warner
Brothers brings us a project.
They say we need this subtitledin 42 languages and dubbed in
30 languages by these dates.
We then say for this amount ofwork, here's how much you'll
(01:41):
have to pay us.
Then, as a project manager, Igo out and try to find the best
rates from dubbing andsubtitling studios or from
freelancers and I coordinate thedelivery.
There's a lot of differentscenarios that can come up at
various stages of the process.
For example, we can getsomething dubbed from a studio,
but when the client sees that,they say the actor's reading was
weird on this line or thetranslation doesn't work so I
(02:03):
have to go back to the studioand get it retranslated or have
them bring the actor back in todo it again.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So you basically need training in international
diplomacy to do this.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
There's a lot of back and forth and the job
definitely takes a while tolearn.
I didn't exactly set out towork in localization.
I started my career in scriptdevelopment.
I worked eight or nine years inthe area, first in Europe, then
in the US, and then I did a bitof development for reality TV.
But at some point I startedlooking for something more
stable.
As we all know, there's not alot of stability in the
(02:35):
entertainment industry.
I found out about localizationand I realized okay, this is a
new space I haven't explored.
I was also curious, comingwhere I come from.
I grew up learning English withsubtitles, so I have a deep
respect and appreciation forthis part of TV and filmmaking
being done right.
So I got the job and I startedworking in this area.
(02:56):
I soon realised it was a lotmore work than I had anticipated
but luckily there was oneproject manager who was
especially helpful and reallysupportive.
She'd been working insubtitling a long time, she had
a lot of experience and she wasa big fan of movies and loved
reading just a very, very sweetperson.
So with her help I got settledinto the job and I became part
of what turned out to be a verytight-knit team.
(03:18):
We worked very closely together.
We'd cover for each other.
We helped each other onprojects for years, and then the
industry started to change.
This is late 2022, early 2023.
Chatgpt launched, so there wassuddenly a lot more conversation
about AI.
There was also rumours of awriter's strike.
I started to get nervous, butnobody else seemed worried.
(03:44):
The majority of my colleagueshave worked in this space for
way longer than I have, and themajor companies in this space
have been around for a long time, so these jobs feel very stable
.
The people who get them and stayhere, they kind of know they're
always going to have a job.
So I was trying to raise alarmbells and be like look, this
isn't going to be like anythingwe've ever seen before.
I really feel like this isgoing to affect us in some way.
But everyone else seemed tothink it was smooth sailing,
(04:05):
like, well, they're going tokeep the boat floating like
they've done in the past, andfor a while it seemed like they
were right.
We got all the way through thestrikes with no major layoffs.
But then, at the beginning of2024, the companies started
having sort of mini layoffs.
You'd hear like, oh, these twopeople have been laid off, just
two from this department, andthe way they would justify it
would be oh, you know, duringCOVID we hired so many people
(04:27):
because it was a bigger demand.
So now we're just trimming thefat, which is a terrible term
that I hate, but it's just whatthey were saying.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Did you believe them or did you always have a sense
that this was just the beginning?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
I was trying to stay positive.
I figured maybe they weretrying to prevent a big round of
layoffs by doing these littletrims.
But it turns out I was wrong.
One day we woke up and half ourteam said we have these weird
early meetings at 8am with HRand the manager.
What's that about?
It was around the time when wewere supposed to get one-on-one
performance reviews.
(04:59):
We usually get like a 2% raisearound this time.
So I was like oh, I'm sure it'sfine.
In my heart I was even a littlebit jealous because I was like
I don't have a meeting.
What's going on?
I'm not getting a raise?
Oh no.
But I was like it's fine, theydeserve it.
I hope they're even getting alittle bit extra.
I was trying to be happy forthem, but then in the middle of
(05:19):
it, one of my friends sent me amessage saying I'm getting laid
off.
Here's my number in case youwant to contact me.
I was like, yeah, right, whatkind of joke is this at 8am.
But she was like no, this isfor real, I'm getting laid off.
And then, of course, the pennydropped and I was like oh, that
means this person is gettinglaid off and this person is
(05:41):
getting laid off and we justsort of went into panic mode.
I was slacking my directmanager like hey, what's going
on?
Did you know about this?
And she was like no, I didn'tknow.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
And it was all like immediate, I mean they weren't
given notice, it was just likeit's over, goodbye.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Oh my God.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
It's basically like a 10, 15 minute meeting per
person.
They would just go in.
Our department director wouldbe there with an HR person.
They would be like here, thisis what's happening.
We're doing mass layoffsbecause we don't have a lot of
work.
You're going to be signed outof everything.
This is your last day, so yougot absolutely zero heads up, no
(06:17):
time to prepare, no time to doanything, and you're just
unceremoniously ejected from thecompany.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
This is so fucking wrong, yeah, not to mention
traumatizing, to everybodyinvolved.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It is.
All of us on the team had gonethrough layoffs in the past.
We know exactly how bad it canfeel and how much of a long-term
effect it can have on yourpsyche.
The first job I cared aboutwhen I moved to LA was with a
video licensing company.
I started from the bottom as anintern and then I slowly moved
up all the way to being adevelopment producer.
That was a very boom and bustkind of company and at the time
(06:48):
I didn't know that's a normalsituation here.
Back in Europe.
I was a grade A student.
I'd always had jobs where I wasappreciated.
Where I've grown, I never wentthrough any sort of layoffs.
I've never been fired.
I kind of associated these jobsto my identity in some way.
So when I landed the job withthe licensing company and
started growing, getting closewith people and everything, then
(07:09):
they had that same thing threerounds of layoffs.
They started trimming everybodyoff, conserving the core team.
I was in my mid-30s and hadnever experienced anything like
this.
I thought I can do whatever Ican prove myself as long as I'm
given a chance.
But they did three rounds oflayoffs and I was part of the
last one, which was the majorityof the people, it was typical,
(07:29):
unceremonious brought into anoffice 10 minute meeting.
Unfortunately, we've signed youoff of everything.
That's it.
Be on your merry way.
Oh, and the funny thing is themorning before my car had been
totaled what?
I was sitting at a stoplightand this guy just rammed into me
and totaled the side of my car.
I still made it to work becauseI was like the car still runs.
I was still trying to be theA-plus employee Showing up at
(07:53):
work.
I was all shaken.
I was already half out of mybody because of that.
And then I got called into thismeeting and it was like guess
what?
You're being laid off.
Oh, my god, I'm so sorry.
At that point I had to laugh.
I was like this is ridiculous.
Everybody was looking at mewith such pity, knowing I'd just
been through that accident, andI was feeling kind of like good
about it.
I was like, yes, you shouldfeel bad.
(08:14):
All of you people who arestaying feel bad for me.
That was the only thing I couldtake.
I was like I don't care aboutyour feelings, I only care about
my feelings.
Right now, you should feel bad.
A week later they called me backand asked if I wanted to come
back as a contractor.
Of course they did no-transcript, and even though it felt like
(08:37):
some sort of redemption, I stillcarry the trauma of that
rejection, and when other peopleget rejected in that way, I
feel for them.
So that morning at my currentjob, when we realised what was
happening, I started relivingall that trauma.
I realised my manager, anotherco-worker and I were the only
three people on my team whodidn't have meetings scheduled,
meaning we were the only oneswho were staying.
So I started talking to themabout how we could best support
(09:00):
the people who were getting laidoff.
We realized that one more ofour team members had a meeting
coming up, a nice projectmanager who had helped me so
much when I started.
She was the most experiencedmember of the team and the
oldest, and she was also takingcare of her elderly parents.
We decided to call her and giveher a heads up for, I don't
know, maybe a little closure,and when we got her on the phone
(09:22):
, she was already crying.
Oh no, oh god, it was superheartbreaking.
We told her what was up and shejust said yeah, I figured.
Nobody ever talks about howtraumatizing it is to be set
aside like that.
People like to think the jobI'm doing doesn't define me, but
I think it does on some level,because we spend so much of our
(09:42):
waking hours with this job andthe people we're working with
and we want some sense ofsecurity and, of course, our
livelihood is tied to it ourmedical insurance so saying,
yeah, well, it doesn't matter,it's just a job, I can get
another job.
It's not true.
Ultimately, around 15% of thecompany, which is a big global
company, got laid off.
The majority of people werefrom the US, because we're the
(10:04):
most expensive employees and nowwe're restructuring, trying to
figure out how we can handle thework from the people who are no
longer working with us.
Since the layoffs, we've beenkeeping in touch with people
from our team and trying tofollow their journey and help in
any way we can, but the realityis very, very few people that
were laid off have been able tofind jobs.
The last time I talked to theproject manager, I could tell
(10:25):
she was not in a good place.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Given this whole experience, have you learned
anything that might help peoplewho have been laid off or think
they might be?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I would say seek therapy immediately, because
back when I got laid off for thefirst time, I didn't.
I just kind of ruminated on itfor years before I actually
started talking about it.
I think it's very important tohave support and talk to people
who have your back, people whounderstand, even if they haven't
gone through it themselves.
It's important to surroundyourself with people who will
validate you instead of justsaying oh, you're going to find
(10:56):
another job, don't worry.
I don't understand this fakestoicism we have to put on when
it comes to these things.
Any other kind of trauma.
It's like, oh, it's terrible,it's such a blow, but we don't
talk about how much layoffsaffect people.
You develop anxiety, youdevelop a lot of fears.
You don't really want to takerisks.
When I started in thelocalization industry, I had a
(11:16):
pull to maybe go back intodevelopment, but I felt like, no
, this is a safe place to be.
I cannot take risksunnecessarily.
It just becomes survival overeverything and you feel like you
kind of have to hold on.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Do you think you're going to be able to hold on to
this job or do you think there'sgoing to be more layoffs?
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Considering how evasive my director was when I
last talked to him, I do thinkthere'll be more layoffs.
They're telling us we won'thave another one this year, but
I'm having a lot of troublebelieving them.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
If you could say anything to the people who are
making these decisions, whatwould you say?
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Oh my gosh.
So many things Such as, such asdon't do it this way.
I've been talking about this adnauseum with my colleagues.
They are not allowed to do itthis way in Europe.
They have to tell you we aregoing to have layoffs.
They have to give you notice,and it's usually like three
months it's not weeks, unlessyou've documented bad behavior,
issues with your work.
But even that it rarely happens, because they realize that
(12:10):
people depend on their work,even though there's subsidized
medicine there and people don'trely on these jobs as much as
they do in the States.
It's illegal to lay off a bunchof people in a 10-minute session
.
You cannot do that.
People depend on theirlivelihoods, they have kids,
they have elderly parents whorely on them.
This is pretty common senseover there that you cannot do
(12:30):
this.
You're creating generations andgenerations of traumatized
people.
For what?
And you're not getting the bestout of people.
You're just getting people whoare trying to survive and make
it through another day and don'treally give a shit about your
company.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Give people a heads up offer,support.
Don't cut off medical benefits,because that's crazy.
There has to be a different wayto do this, especially in
(12:52):
california.
We're one of the richest statesin the country, in the richest
country in the world.
It's really mind-boggling, whenyou think about it as a
European, that comes herethinking America, land of
possibilities.
I'm like there's so much wealthgoing around.
How is it that we haven'timproved the way of doing this?
So be better.
That's what I would say to them.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Amen.
Thank you so much for burdeningyour soul with us.
Go create in peace with us.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Go create in peace.
Okay, so many things to talkabout in that episode.
One of the things that hits methe hardest is the inhumanity in
the way that these things arehandled, and it reminds me of a
story that I was hearing from afriend just the other day who
experienced some layoffs, and inthat person's situation, they
didn't even get called into anoffice or anything.
They just tried to log ontotheir accounts and found that
(13:46):
they were locked out.
Nobody bothered to even tellthese people that they were
losing their jobs, and that isabsolutely reprehensible.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
It's so infuriating and at the risk of sounding like
an old man shaking his fist atthe sky.
It seems to me that there's suchan epidemic of
non-communication going on thesedays.
I mean, it trickles all the waydown to like I was on an
airplane and somebody wanted theseat next to me and just stood
in the aisle as I had myheadphones on reading a book,
because they didn't want to tapme on the shoulder and ask if
(14:17):
they could sit in the seat nextto me.
They just stood there lookingat me until finally I felt their
presence and looked up.
That's a little creepy.
And that's benign.
It's creepy and benign, but tome it's indicative of a larger
problem that you see in aharmful way when people get laid
off and they're not even toldthat they're laid off.
It's one thing to not be ableto plan if you get told in the
(14:39):
day, but at least you can startdealing with it that day.
I know if it were me I wouldthink tech issue before I got
laid off and this would fuckwith me for a week before I even
realized that I didn't have ajob.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh, that's really true.
That's a great point.
I mean, yeah, that's the thingthat, like communication, is
necessary for human life.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yes, we're social creatures.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
We're social creatures, we have to
communicate, to connect witheach other.
When you remove that elementfrom our interactions, they are
not human interactions anymoreand they remove this piece of
what we are as beings.
And I think, like you say, it'ssort of it's epidemic.
It's everywhere, it's in everyaspect of our lives.
We lose the ability tocommunicate and we end up in
situations where we want to sitin a seat but we feel like we
(15:24):
can't even talk to somebodybecause we've gotten so
conditioned to not being able toexpress things and not being
treated with respect.
I mean, obviously you wouldhave been very happy to say of
course you can sit here, Let meget up and let you get in, or
whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
And as an introvert, I understand the fear or the
adrenaline kick that comes withtalking to a stranger or talking
to somebody and asking for whatyou want.
But there is literally no otherway to get what you want than
to use your voice andcommunicate Right, and if we're
not communicating with eachother, the whole damn system
breaks down.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
That's right, and the fact that this is a top-down
problem is what makes it Trulyharmful.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I love what the confessor wassaying.
If they could talk to thepeople that made these decisions
, whose idea was it to just lockpeople out of their accounts
and not yeah, what cruelmotherfucker thought this was of
(16:23):
their accounts?
And not?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, what cruel motherfucker thought this was
the right thing to do.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Right, I mean, could you not give people a day a week
?
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Whose parents didn't hug them enough and teach them
how to be productive members ofsociety.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, that's.
That's clearly the problem.
Parents hug your children.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Don't create sociopaths.
Parents hug your children.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Don't create sociopaths.
If you need a seat, asksomebody.
And if you need any kind ofhelp, if you are experiencing
any kind of struggle related toa layoff, there are some
(17:05):
resources in the Hollywoodcommunity for you.
A couple that we can name isthe Entertainment Community Fund
, as well as our own, JoelGarfinkel's Green Envelope
Grocery Fund, still functioning.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
They will provide different types of assistance
financial assistance and otherkinds for people who are
experiencing a shortfall due tolack of work, and if you can't
find the help that you need andyou just need somebody to help
you find that help please feelfree to reach out to the podcast
.
We're at FessUpHollywood, onInstagram and X, and we would be
(17:32):
more than happy to help lend ahand in your search for what you
need.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Absolutely so.
I hope everyone out there isdoing well and keeping the faith
.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Until next time, go create in peace special effects
provided by zap splat andpixabay.
Hollywood confessional is aninth way media production.
Follow us on socials at fess uphollywood.
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