April 11, 2024 • 27 mins
Imagine you're working your ass off for a thankless 60+ hours a week job on a TV show, and you discover everyone else in your position is making more than you.
PS, they're all men. And you're the only woman.
In this week's episode of the Hollywood Confessional, we hear a confession from an office production assistant who found herself in this very dilemma.
"When I was handed all of the pay cards with everybody's rates on them for
that week, it happened that the card on top was another production assistant.
And when I looked at his card –- not trying to look, but in receiving something, one
must look at it -- I realized he was getting paid $50 more a week than me."
Awareness leads to action in this inspiring story from a PA who found the courage to confront her boss and demand fair pay... despite the very real fear that doing so could end her career.
"I was really scared. I feel scared even just describing this story to you. Because think about what this guy could do to me, you know? He could make it so I could never work in this town again."
We get into the dangers of taking a stand when you feel like you have no power, and the calculated risks that come with following your beliefs. Finally, we discuss what entertainment industry workers can do to protect themselves in similar pay gap situations.
Spoiler... sometimes these stories have a happy ending.
Connect with us:
Check out some of our favorite shows:
- Screenwriters' Rant Room
- Screaming into the Hollywood Abyss
- It Happened in Hollywood
- The Secret History of Hollywood
Hollywood Confessional is a Ninth Way Media production, produced by Meagan Daine and J.R. Zamora-Thal.
Sound Effects and Music provided by Zapsplat and Pixabay.
Keywords: filmmaking podcast, film podcast, screenwriting podcast, entertainment podcast, Hollywood, filmmaking, writerslife, actorslife, setlife
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
J.R. (00:01):
In nomine Cinema e TV, Espiritu Streaming Amen.
Meagan (00:16):
Hello Hollywood Faithful .
This is your favorite podcastpriest Meagan Daine.
J.R. (00:21):
And this is J.
R.
Zamora-Thal back at you withanother episode of the Hollywood
Confessional.
Meagan (00:26):
Thank you guys so much for joining us now.
If you are joining us for thefirst time, you will be thrilled
to know that this is a podcastwhere Hollywood professionals
share their deep, dark, mostinsane behind the scenes secrets
, and we are so thrilled to havea great story this week from
someone who knows who sort offigured out the secret to
(00:47):
Hollywood, what we all want toknow, which is what to do when
you find out that someone issecretly fucking you over.
(01:08):
.
J.R. (01:08):
You know, I got some advice from a concierge in Italy
.
It was advice for crossing thestreet in Rome, but it applies
to Hollywood and it applies tothis story.
Meagan (01:13):
Okay, let's hear it.
J.R. (01:14):
The advice is you must be bold, but not too bold.
Meagan (01:18):
And.
J.R. (01:19):
.
Meagan (01:20):
I love that you must be bold, but not too bold.
Should we like go out and getinto it?
J.R. (01:27):
Let's step into the booth.
Confessor (01:37):
Forgive me, Father, for I saw what was right in
front of me.
J.R. (01:40):
Oh, the cardinal sin in Hollywood.
We're so sorry that happened.
Meagan (01:45):
Also please tell us what you saw.
Confessor (01:47):
I come from a family where you have to work hard.
I didn't go to a big school.
I went to a state school whereI studied drama and I realized
sort of midway through thatwhile I enjoyed acting, I wasn't
willing to put up with thespecific kind of cruelty that
you face as an actor.
J.R. (02:02):
Actors have to have the thickest skin.
In Hollywood, I tried being anactor and I went on one audition
and they told me that I wasn'tfat enough and that I wasn't
dark enough.
It was so fucking weird.
I was like this feels terrible.
Confessor (02:18):
Yeah, I couldn't handle that Like that level of
personal and unfixable rejection.
You can't hard work your wayout of that.
That's just luck.
At the same time, I had alwaysbeen a person with really strong
opinions and a lot to say and Ihad a really good professor who
sat me down and was like you'reso good, you work so hard, I
believe in you.
But you never told me what youwant to do and I want to help
(02:40):
you do whatever you want to do.
So tell me what you want to do.
And it felt so hard to admitthat what I wanted to do was
writing.
It felt at the time like howdare I believe that I could do
this, how dare I think I'm sospecial that I can become a
writer?
But he was so very wonderfulabout it.
He was just like of course youcan Like, if anyone can do it,
you can.
I believe in you.
(03:00):
What a great guy.
He was also like you actuallyhave to get over yourself and
fucking write something down.
And I was like ooh, scary.
But he pushed me to write myfirst scripts and taught me a
lot about the industry.
He was just a really meaningfulfigure in my life After college
.
I was just like.
I will do anything in the filmindustry at all.
(03:21):
I would do anything for anybody.
I knew one person from collegewho had come to LA to try to
work in the industry and shehappened to know someone who
worked at and that's where I gotmy first job.
It was kind of an adjacent job.
I was basically like a post PA,but I was so idolistic I wanted
everyone to think I was so goodat my job.
But I was so idolistic I wantedeveryone to think I was so good
(03:44):
at my job.
Like I never even checked myFacebook while I was at work.
When I was bored I would readCNN, so I would look busy.
I would always be going topeople's offices Like how can I
help you?
What can I learn?
Like so fucking green and justthe exact naive, young,
vulnerable person that youimagine.
J.R. (04:04):
The one that we all were.
Confessor (04:05):
There was one time when I went into somebody's
office and I was like is thereanything I can do to help you?
I just really want to behelpful.
And he I now know as a joke waslike go get me water, which is
kind of a mean joke because Idid.
It doesn't sound that crazy togo get someone water, but in
retrospect he was just one tierabove me.
It wasn't like he was the bigboss in the middle of a
(04:27):
desperate situation.
It was like this guy who wasfucking with me.
You know what I mean.
I hate this man.
Yeah, I was just so fuckingnaive and had no spine.
Meagan (04:37):
I never pushed back on anybody, but it sucks that
you're in a position ofresponding to this guy being a
dick by, like, blaming yourself.
I mean, you do have a spine,you were a hard ass worker and
you were determined to make it,and you were also clearly a very
nice person who wanted to learnand do a good job and like all
of those things, and thisdouchebag guy took advantage.
Confessor (04:58):
I was very easy to take advantage of.
At that time I just reallyhadn't developed like the
toughness that you need tosurvive in this industry.
People here will push you untilyou say no.
And if your bar for when you'regoing to say no is as low as it
was when I was in thatsituation, people are going to
push you really hard and they'regoing to push you really far.
Part of growing up in thisindustry is like realizing that
(05:21):
you have to move that bar a lotfurther.
You have to be a lot strongerin what you are or what you're
not willing to put up with andthere's a lot of things that I'm
willing to put up with, if I'mbeing honest.
But back then the bar was likebelow the floor.
It was like a hole dug in theearth.
Luckily, my boss at this companywas a very, very nice person.
Like when I first accepted thejob I took the first rate I was
(05:43):
offered and he just looked me inthe eyes and was like no,
you're asking for more.
A really, really lovely boss.
So one day someone on a showour company was involved with,
let me know that their show hadan opening for an office PA.
It felt like this really bigentry point for my career,
potentially my first job on anactual show.
I basically stormed into myboss's office and was like look,
(06:05):
I have a confession to make.
I don't actually want to bedoing the things that I'm doing
with you at all.
I've been pretending so youwould like me, but you like me
now.
So please help me get aninterview on this other job.
And, to his credit, heimmediately got me the interview
.
I hadn't washed my hair, Iwasn't ready for this at all,
but it was.
(06:26):
Oh that is insane.
It felt very Hollywood.
It was like, oh my God, my bigbreak it's happening.
I had to go over and meet withthe line producer.
I went up to the office it'slike up in this big building.
You know, I'm in like a reallyclassic part of Hollywood.
I meet with the line producerand he's in flip-flops.
J.R. (06:47):
Uh-oh.
Confessor (07:04):
He was a fine guy, but he was a line producer.
You know what I?
Uh oh, you're just like wow,I'm so impressed by these people
.
They make more money than Icould imagine.
It's like they're glittering,even though in reality that's
just like a fucking guy.
The interview was short, aslapdash.
(07:25):
Then I started the job and itturns out being an office PA is
hard.
All PA jobs are hard, butsomething that's weird about
being an office PA is thatyou're alone.
Like set PAs have other PAsaround them, but an office PA at
least in this job, I was theonly one with people who were
above me on the chain of command, and then I was driving around
a lot and delivering stuff toand from set.
So if you're an office PA, thenyou're basically also a car PA.
(07:46):
People aren't particularlypolite to you.
I had one experience when wewere in skid row and we were
filming and I in my young 20somethingness and I would still
do this today but I was like,look, we have all this food and
all these water bottles.
I'm going to bring some waterbottles to get to these guys
that are just outside the set,that are clearly very homeless
(08:07):
and having a tough time and thetranspo guys laughed at me and
made fun of me until I criedthose fuckers.
They would also make fun of mebecause my car was dirty and I
was like it's dirty because Ican't afford to clean it.
They're paying me very littlemoney and the same guys detail
the line producer's car everyweek.
J.R. (08:26):
Those fuckers.
Confessor (08:29):
You do get paid mileage, and people would always
tell me that as though it was agreat thing.
They'd be like well, I knowyou're not getting paid very
much, but like you get mileage,that's amazing.
And I would be like that's likecompensation for wear and tear
on the car that I had to buy todo this job.
I mean it's not like it's likefree money, but the people above
me in production would alwaysbe like you're so lucky.
(08:51):
You should be thankful for thisabusive relationship, exactly,
exactly.
I think that's just the vibe ofa lot of PA jobs.
It's like sort of like well,aren't you very, very grateful?
And of course, I was very, verygrateful to be there.
I loved working in TV.
I liked the show that I wasworking on a lot.
There were so, so many manyreasons why I was happy to be
(09:12):
there, but it was weird that inthis industry they're like you
should be grateful.
Part of my job was toalphabetize everyone's contracts
and then take everyone's paycards in every week to the
accounting firm, and so I knewvery vaguely how much money
everybody was making.
But in my super sweet naivenessI wasn't like trying to figure
out where I fell in thatspectrum.
(09:32):
You know what I mean.
Now I would be all over thatshit.
I'd be digging in there makingcharts, making spreadsheets, but
at the time I was just like, oh, what a cool thing to be
alphabetizing people's contracts.
But one day, when I was handedall of the pay cards with
(09:55):
everybody's rates on them forthat week, it happened that the
card on the very top was anotherproduction assistant.
And when I looked at his cardagain not trying to look, but in
receiving something one mustlook at it and when I glanced at
it I realized he was gettingpaid $50 more a week than me.
I think I was making $600 aweek for 60 hours.
(10:16):
That's criminal Somewherebetween $600 and $700.
And I was sharing a one-bedroomapartment with my boyfriend.
We never bought anything.
My whole life was like teensytiny.
So $50 a week was a significantamount of money to me.
And at that point point Ilooked at the other time cards
and I found out that all of themale set PAs were getting paid
the higher rate.
(10:38):
I said I was naive, but I wasalso very indignant about
inequality and looking at thesituation where every man was
getting paid more money than meand I, who I was intentionally
or unintentionally segregatedfrom them and was the only woman
at this level was getting paidless.
It just felt like such a clearviolation of the ethics of me as
a human being.
Also, some of the content ofthe show was about the gender
(11:01):
pay gap.
The show I was working on wasvery clearly trying to send a
message about the exactsituation that I was in.
It sort of felt like a messagefrom the universe or whatever,
like divine intervention.
I had been so excited about thecontent they were doing.
I was really proud to even be ateeny part, like just to be the
person alphabetizing those timecards so the show could get
(11:22):
made.
You know what I mean.
And it felt so crushing andpainful to see how, like, the
veneer lifts and the reality ismore sinister.
You know, the reality is thatwe may believe this, but we're
not willing to act according toour values.
We're not willing to do thehard and messy work that it
takes to live up to the peoplethat we thought we were.
It feels very akin to like anyHollywood movie, where this is a
(11:44):
glittering place full ofopportunity and pizzazz, and
then you see the next shot,which is inevitably like people
doing drugs on the street ass.
And then you see the next shot,which is inevitably like people
doing drugs on the street.
It's the dichotomy of this townOn one hand, anything is
possible and dreams can cometrue and on the other hand, it's
a meat grinder and will crushyou.
So what did you do After I foundout?
I immediately called friends.
(12:05):
I did a lot of like researchbecause, like, if I'm gonna go
into the situation I had to beironclad and know that I'm not
just reacting emotionally towhat feels unequal.
So I called everyone I knew whocould maybe shed light on
whether or not these jobs werenormally paid differently.
I did a lot of research, Italked to a lot of people at my
own level and then the firstboss I had I wound up going to
(12:28):
him because he had been sosupportive of me.
I was like, hey, I need a quickgut check.
I'm really upset about this,but I need to know if I'm being
irrational here.
I want to say something, but Idon't want to lose my job or
look like an idiot.
And again, to that man's credit, he was very kind about it.
He said that he thought it wasfucked up and he told me that I
should go and talk to the lineproducer myself, but that he
(12:49):
would have my back, which wasamazing.
If you're going to be anybody inHollywood, be that guy right.
Be the guy that sees a personwho is suffering over $50 a week
and says I will be behind youin that.
He also told me that I shouldalso ask for back pay, which is
something I hadn't even thoughtabout.
We were far enough along inproduction that adjusting this
for the duration would have costthem about $200, were far
(13:10):
enough along in production thatadjusting this for the duration
would have cost them about $200.
But adjusting it for back paycosts, like you know, probably
two grand, which is a hugeamount of money at that pay rate
.
That was like a month of rent.
Confronting the line producerwas so, so scary.
Still, like in the top of someof the most terrifying things
(13:32):
I'd ever done in my life.
I sent him an email and I waslike hey, when I come by set, I
need to talk to you.
So I came by set and I went tohis little trailer.
I also had severe anxiety.
So at the time I was like I wassweaty, my voice was shaking, I
(13:53):
was already crying.
I was not girlbossing my wayinto this.
I was like like imagine a wetferret shows up at your door and
says you're not paying meenough.
That's the vibe here.
Just very easy for a man tosort of be like.
Look at that hysterical littlebitch, you know what I mean.
Damn, it felt horrible and Iwas really scared.
(14:15):
I feel scared even justdescribing this story to you.
Like I feel a tightness in mychest just remembering how
scared I was, because thinkabout what this guy could do to
me.
You know he could make it so Icould never work in this town
again.
Any future job was tied to thisone.
And that's how it always is inthis town, like if you can't get
(14:36):
someone to say that you weregood at the job that you just
did, it's really hard to getyour next job, and especially
when you have very few jobs onyour resume, when you're like
I've got two jobs to my name andone of those jobs that guy
fucking hates me.
That's scary.
This was the kind of place thatI hoped I would get promoted in
.
You know, I hoped that I wouldwind up as one of their writers
(14:59):
one day, and so causing troubleat that low level felt really
scary.
But on principle I had to do it.
So I went in and I likeblubbered through, like hey, I
noticed when I was looking atthe time cards that I'm $50 less
than like all the other PAs andit just feels like I just I
just really like wanted todiscuss that.
(15:20):
You know what I mean.
And he was just like OK, sowhat?
J.R. (15:26):
What an asshole.
Confessor (15:28):
He really made me work for it.
He kept being like, so whatDoesn't matter?
And it was a good thing.
I did all that research.
Because he was like office PAsare always paid less than set
PAs.
And I was like no, they're not.
I've researched it, I haveasked many people, I have
Googled it, I have like I havedata that shows that they're not
.
And then he was like, well,like I have data that shows that
(15:49):
they're not.
And then he was like, well,that's just the way it is.
Like what are you even doinghere?
You wet little ferret Like fuckyou.
Until, eventually, I said themagic words for getting sued,
which are.
It just really feels bad as awoman to know that all the men
are getting paid more than me,oh shit.
And that was when I could seehis brain start to flip and
(16:11):
realize that like it was goingto cost him more money to say no
to me and keep in mind up untilthat point I hadn't brought up
back pay.
So in his mind he's being thismuch of a dick.
Over 200 bucks.
This is a man who's getting hiscar detailed every week.
Like the money that I'm askingfor is less than he's spending
on making his fancy car looknice.
But if he gives me anything he'ssetting a precedent and he
(16:34):
didn't want to.
He didn't respect me and hedidn't respect you know the hard
hours that I was putting in andhe thought I should be grateful
for the position that I was in.
I also think you know, ifyou're looking at the deep
psychology of it.
I hope his reaction a littlebit came from shame.
We're literally making contentabout how horrible it is to
(16:54):
treat people this way.
I think it's hard to admit thatyou've done that Also.
He's just a dick.
Meagan (17:00):
Yeah, there it is.
Confessor (17:05):
The minute I said it feels bad as a woman to be paid
less than a man, he said okay,fine you can have the money
money.
I'll adjust it on your timecard.
And then after that Iimmediately turned to him and
said okay, let's talk about backpay then, and he like literally
swallowed.
He was pissed that I said that,but like he looked like he was
(17:26):
doing the math in his head andwas like okay, fine.
J.R. (17:30):
Oh, my God.
Confessor (17:31):
It wasn't even that much money.
But after this conversation Iwalked away and obviously like I
cried for like an hour as I wasdriving stuff from point A to
point B because I wasn't aboutto stop doing my job.
So I'm crying and driving, andthen a couple of days later I
came back to set and he ran intome and pulled me aside and he
went how did you know?
(17:52):
How did you find out about this?
He was like angry and he wastrying to figure out like who
had told me how much money theymade.
And I just looked him in theeye and I was like you handed it
to me.
Every day you hand me theirtime card.
You gave it to me.
His rage was so intense and itwas just there's no one to blame
(18:13):
but yourself.
You asked me to alphabetizeeveryone's contracts and then he
was like well, how did you seeit?
And I was like I have eyes.
I know you hope that I don't,but it would have to have been
hard for me to not see it,because I have to, because you
put it in front of my fuckingface and I'm not brainless and
stupid that I can't see thenumbers that I was taught in
(18:34):
kindergarten.
J.R. (18:36):
What was he like after that?
Confessor (18:38):
It was just sort of like he was neutered, you know,
like he was mad, but there wasnothing he could do.
I wanted to give him verylittle credit in the story but
to his credit, he didn't fire me.
After that I became anassistant on the creative side
and then I worked my way up.
Meagan (18:58):
Wasn't expecting that.
Was he still the line producer?
Confessor (19:02):
Yeah, but like by that time I had him by the balls
.
I was so sweet and naive that I didn't know that.
But I had him by the balls, Ihad powerful people on my side
and they believed in me.
So I wasn't even mad at himanymore.
I was sort of just like I gotyou and I can say hello to you
(19:23):
and congrats on your baby orwhatever, because that doesn't
matter to me anymore.
And in some ways I think thatlike he gained a little bit more
respect for me from doing that.
It's really hard for me to giveanyone advice from this story,
but I would say pick the battlesyou can win and be prepared to
not win.
You can't control the outcomeof anything, especially in this
town.
You can't control otherpeople's behavior.
(19:43):
You have to behave in a waythat will make you proud
regardless.
And when I walked into thatroom I knew I was proud of what
I was doing, and it didn'tmatter how he responded or what
that led to.
I just knew that the version ofthe career I would have had
otherwise wouldn't have beensomething I wanted.
J.R. (20:01):
Go create in peace.
Meagan (20:11):
Okay.
So going back to that advice atthe beginning be bold, but not
too bold.
I think this was a reallyinteresting story because it was
like so scary to be bold.
It's like the most tremulousversion of bold, like the wet
ferret.
J.R. (20:28):
I can never get away from that.
Meagan (20:30):
That's so good I love it and it's like so honest and the
idea of this producer, thisline producer, just looking at
this, this person like who areyou?
J.R. (20:43):
yeah, go be gone and as a PA, you're like literally the
bottom of the totem pole.
There's 10 people behind youthat want your job.
Meagan (20:52):
So to stand up like that , like oh, I would be sweating
yeah, it's, uh man, incrediblybrave and like it got me
thinking about like that momentof being bold and how it doesn't
.
It doesn't ever really looklike you're being bold, I think.
J.R. (21:08):
No.
Meagan (21:08):
And like how scary that is, and I'm seriously racking my
brain for a single time in mylife when I have ever had that
kind of courage, and I'm hopingthat, while I am trying to think
of something that you can like,inspire me with a story when
you've done it.
J.R. (21:25):
Yeah, I uh.
There was one time that Ifought for pay that I thought
was fair.
I thought that I was beingunderpaid and I was in a
situation where I was gettingpaid a certain rate.
I had been at this job for ayear and they brought somebody
in who is technically under meand who is making the same
amount of money that I was afterbeing a year onto this project.
Meagan (21:46):
Oh wow, how did you find out?
J.R. (21:50):
I asked her what she was making, because I had a hunch
that they were underpaying me.
Meagan (21:55):
Very sneaky yeah, you asked her.
J.R. (21:59):
I said hey what are you making?
Yeah, but we were.
We were friends at that point.
Meagan (22:03):
So it wasn't.
J.R. (22:04):
I wasn't trying to compare anything with her, I was just.
I was trying to see if thecompany was trying to do me
dirty.
Well, if I don't know if thisis like my friends, I was the
one in the friend group makingno money and at this time in my
life I was going out a lot andblowing it all on Ubers.
Meagan (22:28):
Also not what I was expecting you to say.
Just going out every nightblowing it all on Ubers.
J.R. (22:35):
I was like hey, I'm not making any money, are you guys?
And they all said yes, and Igot very offended so then, what
happened?
Uh.
So eventually, uh, I went tothe CEO of the company and I
said, hey, this is what peoplewith my job title make, this is
what I want to be making, and hefired back quick.
(22:56):
He said why do you think youdeserve that?
And at that moment I became thewet ferret in the office.
My heart was racing, my handswere shaking.
I know that I smelled bad fromflop sweat, but but I stuck to
my guns and I told himeverything I had done for him
over the last year, and he hitme back with the things that I
(23:18):
had fucked up.
It was a.
It was a real life, real lifenegotiation.
Meagan (23:22):
Whoa.
J.R. (23:23):
But I had the secret ace in the hole, which only works if
you really mean it, and that isI was willing to walk if I
didn't get what I wanted.
Yeah, that gave me that extrabump of confidence, that little
secret edge to to be able to dowhat I needed to do.
Meagan (23:40):
I love that.
J.R. (23:41):
And I ended up getting a really nice salary bump that I
quite frankly needed to live inLA.
Meagan (23:48):
Yeah, that's amazing, congrats to you.
And like the willingness towalk away or the power to say no
, I think is it's probably justabout the only power that you
typically have, and I mean, youknow that was in a different
industry but, like in Hollywood,the only thing that you have,
(24:08):
your only leverage, is theability to say no.
J.R. (24:12):
I think what, what people should know, especially PAs, is
that if you're a hard worker andyou're showing up consistently
and doing a good job, that powerto say no is really strong,
because it's hard to replace you.
It's hard to replace a goodworker and nobody wants to do it
.
If they've got somebody doing agreat job, they want to keep
you.
That's right, and if you're notmaking a livable wage, you need
(24:33):
to be making a livable wage.
Meagan (24:35):
That's right, and you know there's a, I think, a very
positive movement going on inHollywood for people to kind of
share that information Like howmuch are you making?
You know there's obviously, youknow, lots of people are
unionizing that were notunionized before, and that helps
because you're setting, youknow, a wage minimum, but also
(24:56):
just like letting it be known sothat we can all share
information and help each other.
And then you know, hey, the, thewoman that just got hired after
me, like a year after me, ismaking more, and then you have
something to go on.
Like you, you have to have somekind of facts.
I think that was another thingthat um that I really admired
about this confessor, and waslike, wow, that's, that's the
(25:18):
way to do.
It is like arm yourself withall the facts so that then, when
you do go and and confront thepowers that be and demand what
you're worth, at least you havesomething to back you up there.
J.R. (25:31):
I think that's so, so important.
I think anytime anybody asks mewhat I've been paid on any job
that I've had, be it a PA,writer's assistant, whatever I'm
more than willing to tell themwhat I got, how I got it and
everything that went along withmy deal.
Meagan (25:47):
So what's the worst paid job you've ever had?
J.R. (25:51):
I worked in construction for a summer at absolute rock
bottom minimum wage.
Meagan (25:59):
Oh wow, Was that in Texas?
J.R. (26:00):
No, it was in California.
Oh okay, so that's not as bad.
Texas minimum wage oh wow, Wasthat in Texas?
No, it was in.
Meagan (26:02):
California oh OK, so that's not as bad.
Texas minimum wage is worse.
J.R. (26:04):
I think it was about $12 an hour.
Meagan (26:06):
Oh, wow.
J.R. (26:07):
And it is the only job I've ever gotten fired from.
Confessor (26:10):
So add insult to injury.
Meagan (26:15):
Oh, man, yeah, that's the worst.
The job that you hate the mostis the one that's going to fire
you anyway, All right Wellthat's all we've got for you
this week, guys.
Next week or, excuse me, nextepisode, so two weeks from now
we have a very special interviewthat's going to be a great
follow up to this week's episode, with the founders of Pay Up
Hollywood.
J.R. (26:35):
It's an incredible interview that I almost didn't
even have to edit.
It was so great.
Yeah, you're going to get thefull thing.
Meagan (26:42):
Yeah, they have great information, great things to
share about their organizationand where it came from and how a
couple of individuals can makea huge difference in Hollywood.
So please join us for that oneagain, two weeks from today and
meantime two weeks from todayand meantime, go create in peace
.
J.R. (27:05):
The Hollywood confessional is produced by Meagan Dane and
J.
R.
Zamora- Thal.
Joelle Garfinkle is ourco-producer and AJ Thal is our
post-production coordinator andeditor.
Our cast today Taylor Brooks.
Special effects provided by ZapSplat and Pixabay.
Hollywood Confessional is aNinth Way Media production.
(27:25):
Follow us on socials atFessUpHollywood.
In nomine Cinema e TV, Espiritu Streaming Amen.
Meagan (00:16):
Hello Hollywood Faithful .
This is your favorite podcastpriest Meagan Daine.
J.R. (00:21):
And this is J.
R.
Zamora-Thal back at you withanother episode of the Hollywood
Confessional.
Meagan (00:26):
Thank you guys so much for joining us now.
If you are joining us for thefirst time, you will be thrilled
to know that this is a podcastwhere Hollywood professionals
share their deep, dark, mostinsane behind the scenes secrets
, and we are so thrilled to havea great story this week from
someone who knows who sort offigured out the secret to
(00:47):
Hollywood, what we all want toknow, which is what to do when
you find out that someone issecretly fucking you over.
(01:08):
.
J.R. (01:08):
You know, I got some advice from a concierge in Italy
.
It was advice for crossing thestreet in Rome, but it applies
to Hollywood and it applies tothis story.
Meagan (01:13):
Okay, let's hear it.
J.R. (01:14):
The advice is you must be bold, but not too bold.
Meagan (01:18):
And.
J.R. (01:19):
.
Meagan (01:20):
I love that you must be bold, but not too bold.
Should we like go out and getinto it?
J.R. (01:27):
Let's step into the booth.
Confessor (01:37):
Forgive me, Father, for I saw what was right in
front of me.
J.R. (01:40):
Oh, the cardinal sin in Hollywood.
We're so sorry that happened.
Meagan (01:45):
Also please tell us what you saw.
Confessor (01:47):
I come from a family where you have to work hard.
I didn't go to a big school.
I went to a state school whereI studied drama and I realized
sort of midway through thatwhile I enjoyed acting, I wasn't
willing to put up with thespecific kind of cruelty that
you face as an actor.
J.R. (02:02):
Actors have to have the thickest skin.
In Hollywood, I tried being anactor and I went on one audition
and they told me that I wasn'tfat enough and that I wasn't
dark enough.
It was so fucking weird.
I was like this feels terrible.
Confessor (02:18):
Yeah, I couldn't handle that Like that level of
personal and unfixable rejection.
You can't hard work your wayout of that.
That's just luck.
At the same time, I had alwaysbeen a person with really strong
opinions and a lot to say and Ihad a really good professor who
sat me down and was like you'reso good, you work so hard, I
believe in you.
But you never told me what youwant to do and I want to help
(02:40):
you do whatever you want to do.
So tell me what you want to do.
And it felt so hard to admitthat what I wanted to do was
writing.
It felt at the time like howdare I believe that I could do
this, how dare I think I'm sospecial that I can become a
writer?
But he was so very wonderfulabout it.
He was just like of course youcan Like, if anyone can do it,
you can.
I believe in you.
(03:00):
What a great guy.
He was also like you actuallyhave to get over yourself and
fucking write something down.
And I was like ooh, scary.
But he pushed me to write myfirst scripts and taught me a
lot about the industry.
He was just a really meaningfulfigure in my life After college
.
I was just like.
I will do anything in the filmindustry at all.
(03:21):
I would do anything for anybody.
I knew one person from collegewho had come to LA to try to
work in the industry and shehappened to know someone who
worked at and that's where I gotmy first job.
It was kind of an adjacent job.
I was basically like a post PA,but I was so idolistic I wanted
everyone to think I was so goodat my job.
But I was so idolistic I wantedeveryone to think I was so good
(03:44):
at my job.
Like I never even checked myFacebook while I was at work.
When I was bored I would readCNN, so I would look busy.
I would always be going topeople's offices Like how can I
help you?
What can I learn?
Like so fucking green and justthe exact naive, young,
vulnerable person that youimagine.
J.R. (04:04):
The one that we all were.
Confessor (04:05):
There was one time when I went into somebody's
office and I was like is thereanything I can do to help you?
I just really want to behelpful.
And he I now know as a joke waslike go get me water, which is
kind of a mean joke because Idid.
It doesn't sound that crazy togo get someone water, but in
retrospect he was just one tierabove me.
It wasn't like he was the bigboss in the middle of a
(04:27):
desperate situation.
It was like this guy who wasfucking with me.
You know what I mean.
I hate this man.
Yeah, I was just so fuckingnaive and had no spine.
Meagan (04:37):
I never pushed back on anybody, but it sucks that
you're in a position ofresponding to this guy being a
dick by, like, blaming yourself.
I mean, you do have a spine,you were a hard ass worker and
you were determined to make it,and you were also clearly a very
nice person who wanted to learnand do a good job and like all
of those things, and thisdouchebag guy took advantage.
Confessor (04:58):
I was very easy to take advantage of.
At that time I just reallyhadn't developed like the
toughness that you need tosurvive in this industry.
People here will push you untilyou say no.
And if your bar for when you'regoing to say no is as low as it
was when I was in thatsituation, people are going to
push you really hard and they'regoing to push you really far.
Part of growing up in thisindustry is like realizing that
(05:21):
you have to move that bar a lotfurther.
You have to be a lot strongerin what you are or what you're
not willing to put up with andthere's a lot of things that I'm
willing to put up with, if I'mbeing honest.
But back then the bar was likebelow the floor.
It was like a hole dug in theearth.
Luckily, my boss at this companywas a very, very nice person.
Like when I first accepted thejob I took the first rate I was
(05:43):
offered and he just looked me inthe eyes and was like no,
you're asking for more.
A really, really lovely boss.
So one day someone on a showour company was involved with,
let me know that their show hadan opening for an office PA.
It felt like this really bigentry point for my career,
potentially my first job on anactual show.
I basically stormed into myboss's office and was like look,
(06:05):
I have a confession to make.
I don't actually want to bedoing the things that I'm doing
with you at all.
I've been pretending so youwould like me, but you like me
now.
So please help me get aninterview on this other job.
And, to his credit, heimmediately got me the interview
.
I hadn't washed my hair, Iwasn't ready for this at all,
but it was.
(06:26):
Oh that is insane.
It felt very Hollywood.
It was like, oh my God, my bigbreak it's happening.
I had to go over and meet withthe line producer.
I went up to the office it'slike up in this big building.
You know, I'm in like a reallyclassic part of Hollywood.
I meet with the line producerand he's in flip-flops.
J.R. (06:47):
Uh-oh.
Confessor (07:04):
He was a fine guy, but he was a line producer.
You know what I?
Uh oh, you're just like wow,I'm so impressed by these people
.
They make more money than Icould imagine.
It's like they're glittering,even though in reality that's
just like a fucking guy.
The interview was short, aslapdash.
(07:25):
Then I started the job and itturns out being an office PA is
hard.
All PA jobs are hard, butsomething that's weird about
being an office PA is thatyou're alone.
Like set PAs have other PAsaround them, but an office PA at
least in this job, I was theonly one with people who were
above me on the chain of command, and then I was driving around
a lot and delivering stuff toand from set.
So if you're an office PA, thenyou're basically also a car PA.
(07:46):
People aren't particularlypolite to you.
I had one experience when wewere in skid row and we were
filming and I in my young 20somethingness and I would still
do this today but I was like,look, we have all this food and
all these water bottles.
I'm going to bring some waterbottles to get to these guys
that are just outside the set,that are clearly very homeless
(08:07):
and having a tough time and thetranspo guys laughed at me and
made fun of me until I criedthose fuckers.
They would also make fun of mebecause my car was dirty and I
was like it's dirty because Ican't afford to clean it.
They're paying me very littlemoney and the same guys detail
the line producer's car everyweek.
J.R. (08:26):
Those fuckers.
Confessor (08:29):
You do get paid mileage, and people would always
tell me that as though it was agreat thing.
They'd be like well, I knowyou're not getting paid very
much, but like you get mileage,that's amazing.
And I would be like that's likecompensation for wear and tear
on the car that I had to buy todo this job.
I mean it's not like it's likefree money, but the people above
me in production would alwaysbe like you're so lucky.
(08:51):
You should be thankful for thisabusive relationship, exactly,
exactly.
I think that's just the vibe ofa lot of PA jobs.
It's like sort of like well,aren't you very, very grateful?
And of course, I was very, verygrateful to be there.
I loved working in TV.
I liked the show that I wasworking on a lot.
There were so, so many manyreasons why I was happy to be
(09:12):
there, but it was weird that inthis industry they're like you
should be grateful.
Part of my job was toalphabetize everyone's contracts
and then take everyone's paycards in every week to the
accounting firm, and so I knewvery vaguely how much money
everybody was making.
But in my super sweet naivenessI wasn't like trying to figure
out where I fell in thatspectrum.
(09:32):
You know what I mean.
Now I would be all over thatshit.
I'd be digging in there makingcharts, making spreadsheets, but
at the time I was just like, oh, what a cool thing to be
alphabetizing people's contracts.
But one day, when I was handedall of the pay cards with
(09:55):
everybody's rates on them forthat week, it happened that the
card on the very top was anotherproduction assistant.
And when I looked at his cardagain not trying to look, but in
receiving something one mustlook at it and when I glanced at
it I realized he was gettingpaid $50 more a week than me.
I think I was making $600 aweek for 60 hours.
(10:16):
That's criminal Somewherebetween $600 and $700.
And I was sharing a one-bedroomapartment with my boyfriend.
We never bought anything.
My whole life was like teensytiny.
So $50 a week was a significantamount of money to me.
And at that point point Ilooked at the other time cards
and I found out that all of themale set PAs were getting paid
the higher rate.
(10:38):
I said I was naive, but I wasalso very indignant about
inequality and looking at thesituation where every man was
getting paid more money than meand I, who I was intentionally
or unintentionally segregatedfrom them and was the only woman
at this level was getting paidless.
It just felt like such a clearviolation of the ethics of me as
a human being.
Also, some of the content ofthe show was about the gender
(11:01):
pay gap.
The show I was working on wasvery clearly trying to send a
message about the exactsituation that I was in.
It sort of felt like a messagefrom the universe or whatever,
like divine intervention.
I had been so excited about thecontent they were doing.
I was really proud to even be ateeny part, like just to be the
person alphabetizing those timecards so the show could get
(11:22):
made.
You know what I mean.
And it felt so crushing andpainful to see how, like, the
veneer lifts and the reality ismore sinister.
You know, the reality is thatwe may believe this, but we're
not willing to act according toour values.
We're not willing to do thehard and messy work that it
takes to live up to the peoplethat we thought we were.
It feels very akin to like anyHollywood movie, where this is a
(11:44):
glittering place full ofopportunity and pizzazz, and
then you see the next shot,which is inevitably like people
doing drugs on the street ass.
And then you see the next shot,which is inevitably like people
doing drugs on the street.
It's the dichotomy of this townOn one hand, anything is
possible and dreams can cometrue and on the other hand, it's
a meat grinder and will crushyou.
So what did you do After I foundout?
I immediately called friends.
(12:05):
I did a lot of like researchbecause, like, if I'm gonna go
into the situation I had to beironclad and know that I'm not
just reacting emotionally towhat feels unequal.
So I called everyone I knew whocould maybe shed light on
whether or not these jobs werenormally paid differently.
I did a lot of research, Italked to a lot of people at my
own level and then the firstboss I had I wound up going to
(12:28):
him because he had been sosupportive of me.
I was like, hey, I need a quickgut check.
I'm really upset about this,but I need to know if I'm being
irrational here.
I want to say something, but Idon't want to lose my job or
look like an idiot.
And again, to that man's credit, he was very kind about it.
He said that he thought it wasfucked up and he told me that I
should go and talk to the lineproducer myself, but that he
(12:49):
would have my back, which wasamazing.
If you're going to be anybody inHollywood, be that guy right.
Be the guy that sees a personwho is suffering over $50 a week
and says I will be behind youin that.
He also told me that I shouldalso ask for back pay, which is
something I hadn't even thoughtabout.
We were far enough along inproduction that adjusting this
for the duration would have costthem about $200, were far
(13:10):
enough along in production thatadjusting this for the duration
would have cost them about $200.
But adjusting it for back paycosts, like you know, probably
two grand, which is a hugeamount of money at that pay rate
.
That was like a month of rent.
Confronting the line producerwas so, so scary.
Still, like in the top of someof the most terrifying things
(13:32):
I'd ever done in my life.
I sent him an email and I waslike hey, when I come by set, I
need to talk to you.
So I came by set and I went tohis little trailer.
I also had severe anxiety.
So at the time I was like I wassweaty, my voice was shaking, I
(13:53):
was already crying.
I was not girlbossing my wayinto this.
I was like like imagine a wetferret shows up at your door and
says you're not paying meenough.
That's the vibe here.
Just very easy for a man tosort of be like.
Look at that hysterical littlebitch, you know what I mean.
Damn, it felt horrible and Iwas really scared.
(14:15):
I feel scared even justdescribing this story to you.
Like I feel a tightness in mychest just remembering how
scared I was, because thinkabout what this guy could do to
me.
You know he could make it so Icould never work in this town
again.
Any future job was tied to thisone.
And that's how it always is inthis town, like if you can't get
(14:36):
someone to say that you weregood at the job that you just
did, it's really hard to getyour next job, and especially
when you have very few jobs onyour resume, when you're like
I've got two jobs to my name andone of those jobs that guy
fucking hates me.
That's scary.
This was the kind of place thatI hoped I would get promoted in
.
You know, I hoped that I wouldwind up as one of their writers
(14:59):
one day, and so causing troubleat that low level felt really
scary.
But on principle I had to do it.
So I went in and I likeblubbered through, like hey, I
noticed when I was looking atthe time cards that I'm $50 less
than like all the other PAs andit just feels like I just I
just really like wanted todiscuss that.
(15:20):
You know what I mean.
And he was just like OK, sowhat?
J.R. (15:26):
What an asshole.
Confessor (15:28):
He really made me work for it.
He kept being like, so whatDoesn't matter?
And it was a good thing.
I did all that research.
Because he was like office PAsare always paid less than set
PAs.
And I was like no, they're not.
I've researched it, I haveasked many people, I have
Googled it, I have like I havedata that shows that they're not
.
And then he was like, well,like I have data that shows that
(15:49):
they're not.
And then he was like, well,that's just the way it is.
Like what are you even doinghere?
You wet little ferret Like fuckyou.
Until, eventually, I said themagic words for getting sued,
which are.
It just really feels bad as awoman to know that all the men
are getting paid more than me,oh shit.
And that was when I could seehis brain start to flip and
(16:11):
realize that like it was goingto cost him more money to say no
to me and keep in mind up untilthat point I hadn't brought up
back pay.
So in his mind he's being thismuch of a dick.
Over 200 bucks.
This is a man who's getting hiscar detailed every week.
Like the money that I'm askingfor is less than he's spending
on making his fancy car looknice.
But if he gives me anything he'ssetting a precedent and he
(16:34):
didn't want to.
He didn't respect me and hedidn't respect you know the hard
hours that I was putting in andhe thought I should be grateful
for the position that I was in.
I also think you know, ifyou're looking at the deep
psychology of it.
I hope his reaction a littlebit came from shame.
We're literally making contentabout how horrible it is to
(16:54):
treat people this way.
I think it's hard to admit thatyou've done that Also.
He's just a dick.
Meagan (17:00):
Yeah, there it is.
Confessor (17:05):
The minute I said it feels bad as a woman to be paid
less than a man, he said okay,fine you can have the money
money.
I'll adjust it on your timecard.
And then after that Iimmediately turned to him and
said okay, let's talk about backpay then, and he like literally
swallowed.
He was pissed that I said that,but like he looked like he was
(17:26):
doing the math in his head andwas like okay, fine.
J.R. (17:30):
Oh, my God.
Confessor (17:31):
It wasn't even that much money.
But after this conversation Iwalked away and obviously like I
cried for like an hour as I wasdriving stuff from point A to
point B because I wasn't aboutto stop doing my job.
So I'm crying and driving, andthen a couple of days later I
came back to set and he ran intome and pulled me aside and he
went how did you know?
(17:52):
How did you find out about this?
He was like angry and he wastrying to figure out like who
had told me how much money theymade.
And I just looked him in theeye and I was like you handed it
to me.
Every day you hand me theirtime card.
You gave it to me.
His rage was so intense and itwas just there's no one to blame
(18:13):
but yourself.
You asked me to alphabetizeeveryone's contracts and then he
was like well, how did you seeit?
And I was like I have eyes.
I know you hope that I don't,but it would have to have been
hard for me to not see it,because I have to, because you
put it in front of my fuckingface and I'm not brainless and
stupid that I can't see thenumbers that I was taught in
(18:34):
kindergarten.
J.R. (18:36):
What was he like after that?
Confessor (18:38):
It was just sort of like he was neutered, you know,
like he was mad, but there wasnothing he could do.
I wanted to give him verylittle credit in the story but
to his credit, he didn't fire me.
After that I became anassistant on the creative side
and then I worked my way up.
Meagan (18:58):
Wasn't expecting that.
Was he still the line producer?
Confessor (19:02):
Yeah, but like by that time I had him by the balls
.
I was so sweet and naive that I didn't know that.
But I had him by the balls, Ihad powerful people on my side
and they believed in me.
So I wasn't even mad at himanymore.
I was sort of just like I gotyou and I can say hello to you
(19:23):
and congrats on your baby orwhatever, because that doesn't
matter to me anymore.
And in some ways I think thatlike he gained a little bit more
respect for me from doing that.
It's really hard for me to giveanyone advice from this story,
but I would say pick the battlesyou can win and be prepared to
not win.
You can't control the outcomeof anything, especially in this
town.
You can't control otherpeople's behavior.
(19:43):
You have to behave in a waythat will make you proud
regardless.
And when I walked into thatroom I knew I was proud of what
I was doing, and it didn'tmatter how he responded or what
that led to.
I just knew that the version ofthe career I would have had
otherwise wouldn't have beensomething I wanted.
J.R. (20:01):
Go create in peace.
Meagan (20:11):
Okay.
So going back to that advice atthe beginning be bold, but not
too bold.
I think this was a reallyinteresting story because it was
like so scary to be bold.
It's like the most tremulousversion of bold, like the wet
ferret.
J.R. (20:28):
I can never get away from that.
Meagan (20:30):
That's so good I love it and it's like so honest and the
idea of this producer, thisline producer, just looking at
this, this person like who areyou?
J.R. (20:43):
yeah, go be gone and as a PA, you're like literally the
bottom of the totem pole.
There's 10 people behind youthat want your job.
Meagan (20:52):
So to stand up like that , like oh, I would be sweating
yeah, it's, uh man, incrediblybrave and like it got me
thinking about like that momentof being bold and how it doesn't
.
It doesn't ever really looklike you're being bold, I think.
J.R. (21:08):
No.
Meagan (21:08):
And like how scary that is, and I'm seriously racking my
brain for a single time in mylife when I have ever had that
kind of courage, and I'm hopingthat, while I am trying to think
of something that you can like,inspire me with a story when
you've done it.
J.R. (21:25):
Yeah, I uh.
There was one time that Ifought for pay that I thought
was fair.
I thought that I was beingunderpaid and I was in a
situation where I was gettingpaid a certain rate.
I had been at this job for ayear and they brought somebody
in who is technically under meand who is making the same
amount of money that I was afterbeing a year onto this project.
Meagan (21:46):
Oh wow, how did you find out?
J.R. (21:50):
I asked her what she was making, because I had a hunch
that they were underpaying me.
Meagan (21:55):
Very sneaky yeah, you asked her.
J.R. (21:59):
I said hey what are you making?
Yeah, but we were.
We were friends at that point.
Meagan (22:03):
So it wasn't.
J.R. (22:04):
I wasn't trying to compare anything with her, I was just.
I was trying to see if thecompany was trying to do me
dirty.
Well, if I don't know if thisis like my friends, I was the
one in the friend group makingno money and at this time in my
life I was going out a lot andblowing it all on Ubers.
Meagan (22:28):
Also not what I was expecting you to say.
Just going out every nightblowing it all on Ubers.
J.R. (22:35):
I was like hey, I'm not making any money, are you guys?
And they all said yes, and Igot very offended so then, what
happened?
Uh.
So eventually, uh, I went tothe CEO of the company and I
said, hey, this is what peoplewith my job title make, this is
what I want to be making, and hefired back quick.
(22:56):
He said why do you think youdeserve that?
And at that moment I became thewet ferret in the office.
My heart was racing, my handswere shaking.
I know that I smelled bad fromflop sweat, but but I stuck to
my guns and I told himeverything I had done for him
over the last year, and he hitme back with the things that I
(23:18):
had fucked up.
It was a.
It was a real life, real lifenegotiation.
Meagan (23:22):
Whoa.
J.R. (23:23):
But I had the secret ace in the hole, which only works if
you really mean it, and that isI was willing to walk if I
didn't get what I wanted.
Yeah, that gave me that extrabump of confidence, that little
secret edge to to be able to dowhat I needed to do.
Meagan (23:40):
I love that.
J.R. (23:41):
And I ended up getting a really nice salary bump that I
quite frankly needed to live inLA.
Meagan (23:48):
Yeah, that's amazing, congrats to you.
And like the willingness towalk away or the power to say no
, I think is it's probably justabout the only power that you
typically have, and I mean, youknow that was in a different
industry but, like in Hollywood,the only thing that you have,
(24:08):
your only leverage, is theability to say no.
J.R. (24:12):
I think what, what people should know, especially PAs, is
that if you're a hard worker andyou're showing up consistently
and doing a good job, that powerto say no is really strong,
because it's hard to replace you.
It's hard to replace a goodworker and nobody wants to do it
.
If they've got somebody doing agreat job, they want to keep
you.
That's right, and if you're notmaking a livable wage, you need
(24:33):
to be making a livable wage.
Meagan (24:35):
That's right, and you know there's a, I think, a very
positive movement going on inHollywood for people to kind of
share that information Like howmuch are you making?
You know there's obviously, youknow, lots of people are
unionizing that were notunionized before, and that helps
because you're setting, youknow, a wage minimum, but also
(24:56):
just like letting it be known sothat we can all share
information and help each other.
And then you know, hey, the, thewoman that just got hired after
me, like a year after me, ismaking more, and then you have
something to go on.
Like you, you have to have somekind of facts.
I think that was another thingthat um that I really admired
about this confessor, and waslike, wow, that's, that's the
(25:18):
way to do.
It is like arm yourself withall the facts so that then, when
you do go and and confront thepowers that be and demand what
you're worth, at least you havesomething to back you up there.
J.R. (25:31):
I think that's so, so important.
I think anytime anybody asks mewhat I've been paid on any job
that I've had, be it a PA,writer's assistant, whatever I'm
more than willing to tell themwhat I got, how I got it and
everything that went along withmy deal.
Meagan (25:47):
So what's the worst paid job you've ever had?
J.R. (25:51):
I worked in construction for a summer at absolute rock
bottom minimum wage.
Meagan (25:59):
Oh wow, Was that in Texas?
J.R. (26:00):
No, it was in California.
Oh okay, so that's not as bad.
Texas minimum wage oh wow, Wasthat in Texas?
No, it was in.
Meagan (26:02):
California oh OK, so that's not as bad.
Texas minimum wage is worse.
J.R. (26:04):
I think it was about $12 an hour.
Meagan (26:06):
Oh, wow.
J.R. (26:07):
And it is the only job I've ever gotten fired from.
Confessor (26:10):
So add insult to injury.
Meagan (26:15):
Oh, man, yeah, that's the worst.
The job that you hate the mostis the one that's going to fire
you anyway, All right Wellthat's all we've got for you
this week, guys.
Next week or, excuse me, nextepisode, so two weeks from now
we have a very special interviewthat's going to be a great
follow up to this week's episode, with the founders of Pay Up
Hollywood.
J.R. (26:35):
It's an incredible interview that I almost didn't
even have to edit.
It was so great.
Yeah, you're going to get thefull thing.
Meagan (26:42):
Yeah, they have great information, great things to
share about their organizationand where it came from and how a
couple of individuals can makea huge difference in Hollywood.
So please join us for that oneagain, two weeks from today and
meantime two weeks from todayand meantime, go create in peace
.
J.R. (27:05):
The Hollywood confessional is produced by Meagan Dane and
J.
R.
Zamora- Thal.
Joelle Garfinkle is ourco-producer and AJ Thal is our
post-production coordinator andeditor.
Our cast today Taylor Brooks.
Special effects provided by ZapSplat and Pixabay.
Hollywood Confessional is aNinth Way Media production.
(27:25):
Follow us on socials atFessUpHollywood.
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