November 7, 2024 • 26 mins
"These people are never going to have sharp claws and pointed teeth. They're going to look like your good friend. And they're mostly going to act like your good friend. And then every once in a while..."
In this episode of the Hollywood Confessional, two confessors from opposite ends of the Hollywood hierarchy share their stories of working with the same toxic man. Over the course of several years and multiple TV shows, they recall how the man they once admired as a leader revealed the monster within.
"You could see the rage radiating off him. He was a completely different person in that moment."
Our mission on this podcast has always been to make Hollywood a happier place by giving industry professionals a place to share their deepest, darkest secrets. And all too often, those secrets exist because abusers are in positions of power.
In this two-part oral history, we explore how one particular abuser got into that position through lies, manipulation, and superficial charm. And through the voice of one of his victims, we hear how his abuse was reinforced by the system.
"He called the exec. And then he told me that what he said was, 'You're a nobody. He's not going to ask the showrunner to leave.'"
In part two, we'll see how even exposing an abuser in the media doesn't always fix the problem, and what one victim did after quitting the job to rebuild her life. We also pay homage to her and all the others who have gone through similar situations in the struggle to achieve their dreams.
Connect with us:
Check out some of our favorite shows:
- Screenwriters' Rant Room
- Screaming into the Hollywood Abyss
- It Happened in Hollywood
- The Secret History of Hollywood
Hollywood Confessional is a Ninth Way Media production, produced by Meagan Daine and J.R. Zamora-Thal.
Sound Effects and Music provided by Zapsplat and Pixabay.
Keywords: filmmaking podcast, film podcast, screenwriting podcast, entertainment podcast, Hollywood, filmmaking, writerslife, actorslife, setlife
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
um, so I probably will be like moving around a lot
, you know, just like keep myown.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, sorry, this is, this is gonna be a rough one if
a story is written up in anewspaper, it's going to portray
somebody in a certain light andit's going to be kind of simple
to judge.
But you're seeing it all in arow, neatly laid out in print.
(00:32):
As glad as I am that people dothat, reading those stories
doesn't make you any better atspotting when this stuff is
happening.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Okay, so let's talk about so.
It's kind of like threechapters.
Chapter one is like the earlydays.
Then chapter two is the showwhen the wheels come off.
Then, like chapter three, Ibecome his assistant and his
(01:00):
assistant is, you know, when theabuse really ran rampant.
So chapter one it was my veryfirst writer's room, one of the
like blue sky procedural shows.
I had worked in post-productionfor season one and I had a lot
of access to the showrunner andbecause I had such access to him
(01:25):
, I was able to say to him youknow, I want to be a writer.
So when it looked like the showwas coming back for season two,
the showrunner asked if I wouldbe interested in interviewing
for the writer's assistant.
I interviewed and I got the job.
I was thrilled.
I had my own parking space.
I just felt like I did it.
I'm doing what I always wantedto do.
Even so, my first day I wasnervous.
(01:48):
Walking into a new writer'sroom feels very much like the
first day of school.
You have the nerves and thejitters.
I didn't know anyone other thanthe showrunner who had hired me
, so I had some familiarity, butit felt like meeting a whole
new team of people that I wantedto impress.
I remember walking into theroom and just being awed at
everything and this one writer Iremember he introduced himself.
(02:12):
He's like just call me b****.
And immediately I'm like, oh,this is a cool guy.
He was very handsome andcharismatic and a little flirty.
I remember as he shook my hand,like having his full attention,
not feeling as nervous asmeeting other people.
He was just that kind ofcharismatic person that could
(02:35):
immediately make you feel atease.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
My first sense of f***ing was okay, I can work
with this guy.
I liked him.
He was funny, he had good ideasand when I met him we were in a
nightmare of a show.
You know like a really, reallytough situation, and he made an
unbearable situation bearable.
We had a showrunner who was notexperienced, so on our first
(02:59):
day we were just going and goingand going in the room like
hours passed Two, three, fourhours, something like that and
finally raised his hand.
He's like not to bring us downa few levels on Maslow's
hierarchy of needs, but I coulduse a bathroom break and I bet
other people could too.
There was a sense that you knowthere's something wrong with
(03:21):
the guy in charge and the nexthighest guy, if we listen to him
, will be okay.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Bleep was making the room laugh from get.
We didn't know that we had towait for the maintenance people
to move furniture and installthe whiteboards.
So the big drama the first daywas a group of writers hanging
up a whiteboard and Bleep tookcharge.
You could see him emerge as theleader.
He was just someone that peoplewere naturally attracted to.
Later that day he startedteaching me all the different
(03:57):
roles of the writer's room.
You know, because it'sconfusing You're a producer but
you're also a writer how doesthat work?
And he said I'm a co-EP.
Do you know what that means?
And in my innocence I was likeno, and he's like it means I'm
not an EP.
And the way he said it Iwouldn't go so far to say it was
(04:21):
a red flag, but it wasdefinitely one of those
checkered morning flags.
I just felt like, okay, I mayhave to watch out for this guy.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Let's watch and see if this goes away.
There was always stuff I'm sureI said stuff in writers' rooms
back then that was notappropriate and that I certainly
wouldn't say now, but you knowa lot of talk about like a
particular technique he woulduse to pick up women that one of
the most enticing things issmell, and then he would like
mime leaning in and let thewoman smell him and stuff like
that.
He kissed me on the cheek onceto make me uncomfortable, which
(05:00):
fucking worked, and it was donein a spirit of camaraderie,
let's say.
But it was also like this is adude who knows where your
buttons are and will show yousometimes that he can push them.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
The show we were on was very chaotic.
The showrunner was a lovely manand an incredible writer, but
it was his first time running ashow and at times it felt like
he was losing control.
There were a lot of bigpersonalities, very talented
writers, who were very vocalabout the fact that they were
just taking the job for thepaycheck, but B*** was really
the one who was like we're ateam, I'm not making you guys
(05:33):
stay late.
It's not fair that we'rerewriting outlines that we
shouldn't.
So it felt like he wasdefending us, especially the
sports staff.
It was like we were the RebelAlliance and he was our Han Solo
.
It was like we were the RebelAlliance and he was our Han Solo
.
Along the way I became reallygood friends with him.
He started calling me hislittle sister.
He would let me write scenesand teach me great writing tips.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
This was somebody who saw me as a fellow artist and a
colleague who I enjoyedbreaking story with.
We would talk about our lives,things we were going through.
You know he was a friend.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I had a rough start in entertainment, like my very
first job.
One of the non-writingproducers would come in late at
night and Like there was onenight that he was telling me he
was looking for a new assistantand I was like, oh, what would
your new assistant do?
And he very casually looked atme and was like, Can you give a
(06:29):
good blowjob?
This was my very, very firstjob and this was like a huge
production company, a hugeproducer.
So I bring that up because Ihad already had experiences like
that.
I knew how to be on guard aroundpeople that felt unsafe.
I did not feel that way aroundany of these people.
(06:50):
I felt like they were my familyand my support system.
I would even open up to themabout these experiences I was
having in Hollywood, wonderingif this was normal.
I also had some rough things inmy childhood and this was the
first time I started talkingabout them in a really open way
with people outside of my family.
F*** encouraged me to go totherapy and shared some of his
(07:14):
childhood trauma, so I felt verybonded to him.
He felt like somebody I wasclose to in a real way.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
He talked a lot about having a rough childhood,
seeing a guy get killed, seeinga dead body in a car you know
really good stories, I guess,where it started to turn for me
he always talked about.
I'm hesitant to tell you guysthis, because and it did make me
(07:53):
start to wonder how much of therugged backstory about seeing a
kid killed or seeing a deadbody, you know, was it true or
was it him?
Because this is a guy who lovesto fucking spin a yarn.
He loves to fucking tell astory.
That's not true.
There's a real delight indeceiving other people.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
After that season the showrunner got fired and a new
showrunner was brought in withan almost new staff.
So it's like back to finding ajob.
I had gone back to being a PA.
I think it was about a yearlater.
I got a call from He'd beenworking on a different show.
It was a big hit and he wasgoing to be taking over a
showrunner with another writer.
(08:33):
They were going to be kosherrunning and they needed an
assistant.
He was like you're the firstperson I called.
I was so excited.
I was so excited.
I really liked the other writer.
He and I got along, but I wasmore excited to be working with
on this big show.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I said yes as fast as I could was known for coming
into tough situations andgetting things under control,
and the way he would do that ishe knows where people's buttons
are.
Like any workplace, televisionshows can become pretty
cutthroat power struggles.
You know where people arestabbing each other in the back
and trying to undermine eachother and get a leg up.
(09:13):
F*** is relatively good atnavigating those situations.
He didn't well, I was about tosay he didn't create them, but
that's kind of exactly what hedid.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
It was a stressful show.
It was in its third season, ithad a huge star that was very
cantankerous and it was alsoB***h's first time showrunning.
I think a lot of times, if aco-showrunner is in a situation
where they're not in a truepartnership, there can be a lot
of ego at play.
I started to witness some ofthat ego between the two of them
(09:48):
.
They would get into pettyarguments about who would run
the room or who would do thefinal pass on a script where
everything suddenly felt like acompetition.
A lot of immaturity came out,like they would joke about
starting a production companyand they wanted to call it and
like the symbol that they wantedit to look like was a woman's,
(10:11):
you know.
So they had me spend anafternoon looking up graphics
for this like pagoda tent andmaking sure it could resemble a
woman's vagina.
There were a lot of sideprojects like that and it just
didn't feel great.
And there was also a lot ofside projects like that and it
just didn't feel great.
And there was also a lot oflike.
The star of the show, you know,was someone that he's iconic,
(10:35):
like he's.
I'm just gonna say it.
You guys can blur it out orwhatever, but it's fucking b****
.
So I was like starstruck.
You know B**** would joke hethinks you're cute.
You can take that to youradvantage.
So you know my 24-year-oldbrain I'm like f*** thinks I'm
cute.
(10:55):
This is so flattering.
Now in my 30s I'm like that waskind of f***ed up Because there
were times when the star wouldrefuse to go to set and f***
would ask me to go talk to himand work my magic.
Again.
It felt very flattering, I feltlike I had this superpower, but
it was really putting me in aterrible position.
(11:16):
There was one day that Iremember in particular.
The star would have likespecial jeans flown in from
London and there was one daythat the jeans didn't arrive, so
wardrobe was just going to givehim whatever other kinds of
jeans and it was like a wholecrisis.
(11:38):
The star refused to go to setand was very frustrated and so
he was like can you go to setand talk to him and convince him
that his pants look good?
There was another writer there,a woman.
She was like standing by mydesk and she's like you can't
ever go to set by herself whenhe's throwing a hissy fit.
So I think went with me thattime we were standing outside
the star's trailer.
It was the first time I hadever had a rolled cigarette,
(11:59):
because I couldn't say no tooffering me one of his own
rolled cigarettes and we justlike kibitzed and stuff.
But I remember being like thisis really weird.
Like part of my job is to smokea cigarette with the star and
tell him that his pants lookgood.
And the star's trailer was setup like a bar.
So he was like come inside,I'll make you guys a drink, and
(12:21):
was joking about having thedrink and I'm like, aren't we
here to get him to set the drink?
And I'm like, aren't we here toget him to set?
It was very surreal, it was.
It was like there was thiswhole game going on, that.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I didn't really understand.
On the third season of the showI came in and what started to
get disturbing to me was that hewas still doing the thing he
had done on our previous show offinding a villain and holding
people together and it's like,no, that made sense because
there was an actual bad guy onthat job.
This show didn't have to bethat way, but he was still kind
of fictionalizing andidentifying and it reached a
(12:57):
point where there was a writerwho I guess he felt threatened
by.
So he was kind of maneuveringand cutting his legs off and I
was probably unconsciously aparty to that, because that guy
we didn't really get along.
But Bleep and his co-showrunnermade the decision that they're
going to fire him.
Bleep tells the entire writingstaff on the show, one by one,
(13:18):
that the guy is going to befired.
But don't tell him but I haveto tell you because you can't
talk to him about any ideas fornext season.
We weren't really havingserious discussions about a next
season at that point.
That was basically about B***wanting everybody to know that
this guy was going to be firedand, at a weird fucked up level,
wanting to put us all in thisstressful situation where we
(13:40):
couldn't tell him.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
The way B*** and his co-show ran around the room was
very hierarchical.
It was like you were your leveland there was a writer who was
lower level and there were a lotof problems with him not
respecting his boundaries.
This all culminated in a daywhere they were doing a casting
session for the writer's episode.
B***h would always go into thecasting session and he had a
(14:08):
rule that he was the one thatmade the decisions.
If you were another writer,even if it was your episode and
you had a strong opinion, hedidn't want you to talk.
So I remember they had gone totheir session Then had come in
with like a head of steam, likeyou could hear the noise of him
coming down the hallway.
He and this other writer hadcome in and they were shouting
(14:34):
at each other, told the writer,get the fuck out.
It felt like he was a caged dog, like you could see the rage
radiating off of him.
He was shaking.
He was a completely differentperson in that moment.
I think the thing that scaredme the most was, you know was
someone who always had a planand in that moment his rage just
felt so out of control.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
One of his favorite jokes is oh, that's a nice shirt
.
Does it come in grown-up sizes?
Which is, you know, homophobicand shitty?
But it was just thoseconvenient go-to things to
undermine a little bit.
If there was any sort of threatto his standing, he would take
that very seriously.
Things would get pretty notfunny pretty fast.
He would tell stories about hewas on a double date with
(15:19):
another couple.
The guy seemed unimpressed withhim.
So B**** said do you have aproblem with me?
And the guy responded you'recommon.
And B**** slapped him out ofhis chair and for all I know,
that story is a lie.
It's like that thing in theDark Knight where Heath Ledger's
character tells the originstory of the scars on his face
and then he tells a differentstory Suddenly.
(15:41):
You have no fucking idea.
I'm not saying he's the Jokeror anything.
There's this sense of I don'tknow.
I don't know what was true ofwhat he told me about his
childhood.
I don't know what was true ofour friendship.
I don't really know who he isinside.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Eventually that show started winding down.
It was very clear it was notgoing to come back for another
season.
But he still had an overalldeal and he's like, even if the
show doesn't come back, I wantto keep you on as my assistant.
You're going to help me developshows.
He had this really great ideafor a show that he would talk to
me about in between us workingon things.
The story was about an abusedyoung girl.
(16:21):
I felt like I could see myselfin the main character and could
kind of speak to some of theexperiences.
So it wasn't just like it washis idea.
I felt like I was a part of it,like I was drawn to the show
and could speak to it.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
So I was very excited about that.
By the way, any fuckingshowrunner who's doing
development if you're listeningto this if you're having
assistants either personalassistants or writer's
assistants or scriptcoordinators if you're having
people write your outlines andtheir names aren't on that shit,
you're not doing them a favor,you're doing yourself a fucking
favor.
Cut it the fuck out.
(16:59):
That shit makes me furious.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I do think there was a feeling like could be
uncontrollable, but I still feltvery protected by him at that
point.
So I became his assistant, andthat takes us to chapter three.
It very quickly became clearthat we were not going to just
be spending time working on thispilot.
We got put on the show, which,if you've heard the rumors about
(17:27):
it, they're very true.
The show was a nightmare.
Wait, actually, hold on, let methink for a second.
Here it was, and both of thoseshows were nightmares for
completely different reasons,and so, like this part is going
to be very jumbled because thisis like where we're going to get
(17:47):
into some of the abuse.
So at the time I was engagedand I had ended my engagements.
So, like, emotionally, I wasall over the place and I was
working on these shows that werejust chaotic, and I think for
(18:08):
he was also a new father and Ithink he was just expecting to
work on his pilot and not be puton these chaos shows where it
was a lot of work this is wherehis ego really came out.
The pattern of griping aboutthe showrunner, like that was
all the time he found faultswith all the showrunners.
(18:29):
So I could feel his tension andhis ego.
I'm pretty sure we were onfirst and that was a chaos show
with two big ego showrunners,and then was added into the mix
and then it's when we went tothat's where the wheels really
came off.
One of the showrunners on isnotorious for not being great
(18:49):
around women, to the point thatbefore we took the job was like
I just want to let you knowthere's rumors about this person
, just something for us to beaware of.
I remember the very first timewe met him.
I don't think the room hadstarted yet, we were just going
into the offices to seteverything up.
(19:09):
It was downtown, so there's abridge where you can overlook
and see people passing below,and I were meeting him.
He's very handsome, charismatic, flirty, but I've been warned
about him and my big brother islooking out for me.
So we went outside and theywere smoking cigarettes and I
was just hanging out with themand he looks down at the bridge
(19:31):
below and he sees an attractivewoman and he turns around and
he's like sometimes I look at awoman like that and I just
wonder what the inside of hervaginal cavity looks like.
I could feel a lurch in mystomach.
This is my first time meetingthis man and this is the first
thing he says.
It was like he was activelytrying to be gross and I shared
(19:56):
a look and I was like, oh, hewas right, he's looking out for
me.
And then we drove home becauseat this point we would drive
everywhere together and he waslike you know why he said that,
don't you?
He was like no, he's likebecause he has an OBGYN table at
his house.
That's what he likes to do forforeplay.
(20:19):
To this day, I do not know ifthis is true or just something
he said to me, but I remember soclearly being like and we're
going to work for this guy.
There were moments with thatshowrunner that were like like
like one time before I ended myengagement, I was looking at
(20:40):
wedding dresses and officebecause I didn't have my own
office and the showrunner walkedin and he was like what are you
looking at?
And I was frozen because Ithought, oh shit, he's going to
see me not working.
I'm in trouble and he leansover me.
I could feel his breath on myneck.
I'm in trouble and he leansover me.
(21:01):
I could feel his breath on myneck and he was like wow, you
would look incredible in any oneof those.
There were so many moments likethat that were definitely red
flags and I would let know.
And he was like, just stay inmy office.
I warned you, you know.
And so all this culminated.
There was one day our kitchenwas an open area and it had like
(21:21):
a bar where you can lean overit.
I was talking to my friend andI was like leaning over the bar
and I was wearing a dress itwasn't a short dress where you
could see my, you know whatever,but I was leaning over in a
dress and walked by and grabbedmy ass.
There was no mistaking that.
He did it.
He like laughed afterwards andstuff, and like I looked at my
(21:43):
friend and walked into hisoffice and I started crying,
came in a couple minutes later.
He's like what's up?
And I said he grabbed my ass.
And you know his response waslike he was upset, but it was
also like I knew this was goingto happen.
Don't worry about it, I'll talkto him.
And I was like I want to reporthim and he's like well, we've
(22:08):
got to be smart about this.
And he kind of talked me downfrom it, but he was very much
like I will take care of thisfor you.
I will take care of this foryou.
I don't remember the exacttiming, if it was the next day
or a couple days later, but Icame into the office and said I
talked to him and he said it wasa total accident, like he'll
(22:30):
apologize if you want, but hedoesn't even remember doing it.
And I was like I told you he didand he's like, yeah, but he
also said you were leaning overand his hand must've just
brushed against you.
It just became all theseexcuses and I still was like I
think it's important we reachout to the studio and tell them
what happened.
(22:50):
So again, he was like I'll takecare of it, I'll talk to his
exec.
So he apparently called him andthen he told me that what he
had said I'm sorry if I startcrying is I'm like he told me
that you're a nobody, he's notgoing to ask the showrunner to
(23:12):
leave, but I don't want thingsto be uncomfortable for you.
So maybe the solution is thatyou just don't come into the
office anymore.
To this day, I think thatcomment set my career back in a
big way, because I lost myconfidence in a way that still
affects me, that one comment ofbeing told I was a nobody and
(23:33):
you know, I wasn't allowed towork in the office anymore as a
result of me being abused.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Maybe I should have seen what was going on with his
assistant and said, hey, thisisn't a good situation, Let me
try and help you get out of here.
I don't know when you readthose stories and some of those
guys that got me too'd likeHarvey Weinstein.
I never worked with him.
I saw him outside the big boyonce with an assistant, and that
assistant a male, is thescaredest person I've ever seen
(24:25):
in my life.
So some of those guys you knowright away you're dealing with a
predator.
We learn to expect thatbehavior, we learn to expect the
monster, and that makes itharder for people who are
friends with a person who's notbehaving appropriately to see
that behavior for what it is.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I remember feeling such animosity towards the exec
and the showrunner, but the oneI felt the most betrayed by,
honestly, was you were supposedto be the one protecting me.
This was the best you came upwith.
That was the day I lost myfaith, not only in him, but in
Hollywood.
That was the day I lost myfaith not only in him, but in
(25:03):
Hollywood.
The really sad part of this isit wasn't until a couple years
ago that I really startedtalking about this in a really
open way and someone brought upthe point.
Do you think?
He even called the exec, andthat was the first time I
realized he probably didn't Like, he probably didn't have a
conversation with the showrunner.
(25:24):
And that's the part that justdevastates me.
I feel so fucking stupid.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
These people are never going to have sharp claws
and pointed teeth and wolf ears.
They're going to look like yourgood friend and they're mostly
going to act like your goodfriend, and then, every once in
a while, they're going to dosomething completely
inappropriate.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
And it makes me feel like the nobody they claimed me
to be.
When you're at the point offeeling like you're dirt, then
you accept dirt.
So it was then that the abusereally started.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
This has been part one of Portrait of a Survivor.
Thank you for joining us.
Part two will be released intwo weeks.
Until then, Cody Vaughn.
Special effects provided byZapSplat and Pixabay.
(26:31):
Hollywood Confessional is aNinth Way Media production.
(26:52):
Follow us on socials atFessUpHollywood.
um, so I probably will be like moving around a lot
, you know, just like keep myown.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, sorry, this is, this is gonna be a rough one if
a story is written up in anewspaper, it's going to portray
somebody in a certain light andit's going to be kind of simple
to judge.
But you're seeing it all in arow, neatly laid out in print.
(00:32):
As glad as I am that people dothat, reading those stories
doesn't make you any better atspotting when this stuff is
happening.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Okay, so let's talk about so.
It's kind of like threechapters.
Chapter one is like the earlydays.
Then chapter two is the showwhen the wheels come off.
Then, like chapter three, Ibecome his assistant and his
(01:00):
assistant is, you know, when theabuse really ran rampant.
So chapter one it was my veryfirst writer's room, one of the
like blue sky procedural shows.
I had worked in post-productionfor season one and I had a lot
of access to the showrunner andbecause I had such access to him
(01:25):
, I was able to say to him youknow, I want to be a writer.
So when it looked like the showwas coming back for season two,
the showrunner asked if I wouldbe interested in interviewing
for the writer's assistant.
I interviewed and I got the job.
I was thrilled.
I had my own parking space.
I just felt like I did it.
I'm doing what I always wantedto do.
Even so, my first day I wasnervous.
(01:48):
Walking into a new writer'sroom feels very much like the
first day of school.
You have the nerves and thejitters.
I didn't know anyone other thanthe showrunner who had hired me
, so I had some familiarity, butit felt like meeting a whole
new team of people that I wantedto impress.
I remember walking into theroom and just being awed at
everything and this one writer Iremember he introduced himself.
(02:12):
He's like just call me b****.
And immediately I'm like, oh,this is a cool guy.
He was very handsome andcharismatic and a little flirty.
I remember as he shook my hand,like having his full attention,
not feeling as nervous asmeeting other people.
He was just that kind ofcharismatic person that could
(02:35):
immediately make you feel atease.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
My first sense of f***ing was okay, I can work
with this guy.
I liked him.
He was funny, he had good ideasand when I met him we were in a
nightmare of a show.
You know like a really, reallytough situation, and he made an
unbearable situation bearable.
We had a showrunner who was notexperienced, so on our first
(02:59):
day we were just going and goingand going in the room like
hours passed Two, three, fourhours, something like that and
finally raised his hand.
He's like not to bring us downa few levels on Maslow's
hierarchy of needs, but I coulduse a bathroom break and I bet
other people could too.
There was a sense that you knowthere's something wrong with
(03:21):
the guy in charge and the nexthighest guy, if we listen to him
, will be okay.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Bleep was making the room laugh from get.
We didn't know that we had towait for the maintenance people
to move furniture and installthe whiteboards.
So the big drama the first daywas a group of writers hanging
up a whiteboard and Bleep tookcharge.
You could see him emerge as theleader.
He was just someone that peoplewere naturally attracted to.
Later that day he startedteaching me all the different
(03:57):
roles of the writer's room.
You know, because it'sconfusing You're a producer but
you're also a writer how doesthat work?
And he said I'm a co-EP.
Do you know what that means?
And in my innocence I was likeno, and he's like it means I'm
not an EP.
And the way he said it Iwouldn't go so far to say it was
(04:21):
a red flag, but it wasdefinitely one of those
checkered morning flags.
I just felt like, okay, I mayhave to watch out for this guy.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Let's watch and see if this goes away.
There was always stuff I'm sureI said stuff in writers' rooms
back then that was notappropriate and that I certainly
wouldn't say now, but you knowa lot of talk about like a
particular technique he woulduse to pick up women that one of
the most enticing things issmell, and then he would like
mime leaning in and let thewoman smell him and stuff like
that.
He kissed me on the cheek onceto make me uncomfortable, which
(05:00):
fucking worked, and it was donein a spirit of camaraderie,
let's say.
But it was also like this is adude who knows where your
buttons are and will show yousometimes that he can push them.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
The show we were on was very chaotic.
The showrunner was a lovely manand an incredible writer, but
it was his first time running ashow and at times it felt like
he was losing control.
There were a lot of bigpersonalities, very talented
writers, who were very vocalabout the fact that they were
just taking the job for thepaycheck, but B*** was really
the one who was like we're ateam, I'm not making you guys
(05:33):
stay late.
It's not fair that we'rerewriting outlines that we
shouldn't.
So it felt like he wasdefending us, especially the
sports staff.
It was like we were the RebelAlliance and he was our Han Solo
.
It was like we were the RebelAlliance and he was our Han Solo
.
Along the way I became reallygood friends with him.
He started calling me hislittle sister.
He would let me write scenesand teach me great writing tips.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
This was somebody who saw me as a fellow artist and a
colleague who I enjoyedbreaking story with.
We would talk about our lives,things we were going through.
You know he was a friend.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I had a rough start in entertainment, like my very
first job.
One of the non-writingproducers would come in late at
night and Like there was onenight that he was telling me he
was looking for a new assistantand I was like, oh, what would
your new assistant do?
And he very casually looked atme and was like, Can you give a
(06:29):
good blowjob?
This was my very, very firstjob and this was like a huge
production company, a hugeproducer.
So I bring that up because Ihad already had experiences like
that.
I knew how to be on guard aroundpeople that felt unsafe.
I did not feel that way aroundany of these people.
(06:50):
I felt like they were my familyand my support system.
I would even open up to themabout these experiences I was
having in Hollywood, wonderingif this was normal.
I also had some rough things inmy childhood and this was the
first time I started talkingabout them in a really open way
with people outside of my family.
F*** encouraged me to go totherapy and shared some of his
(07:14):
childhood trauma, so I felt verybonded to him.
He felt like somebody I wasclose to in a real way.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
He talked a lot about having a rough childhood,
seeing a guy get killed, seeinga dead body in a car you know
really good stories, I guess,where it started to turn for me
he always talked about.
I'm hesitant to tell you guysthis, because and it did make me
(07:53):
start to wonder how much of therugged backstory about seeing a
kid killed or seeing a deadbody, you know, was it true or
was it him?
Because this is a guy who lovesto fucking spin a yarn.
He loves to fucking tell astory.
That's not true.
There's a real delight indeceiving other people.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
After that season the showrunner got fired and a new
showrunner was brought in withan almost new staff.
So it's like back to finding ajob.
I had gone back to being a PA.
I think it was about a yearlater.
I got a call from He'd beenworking on a different show.
It was a big hit and he wasgoing to be taking over a
showrunner with another writer.
(08:33):
They were going to be kosherrunning and they needed an
assistant.
He was like you're the firstperson I called.
I was so excited.
I was so excited.
I really liked the other writer.
He and I got along, but I wasmore excited to be working with
on this big show.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I said yes as fast as I could was known for coming
into tough situations andgetting things under control,
and the way he would do that ishe knows where people's buttons
are.
Like any workplace, televisionshows can become pretty
cutthroat power struggles.
You know where people arestabbing each other in the back
and trying to undermine eachother and get a leg up.
(09:13):
F*** is relatively good atnavigating those situations.
He didn't well, I was about tosay he didn't create them, but
that's kind of exactly what hedid.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
It was a stressful show.
It was in its third season, ithad a huge star that was very
cantankerous and it was alsoB***h's first time showrunning.
I think a lot of times, if aco-showrunner is in a situation
where they're not in a truepartnership, there can be a lot
of ego at play.
I started to witness some ofthat ego between the two of them
(09:48):
.
They would get into pettyarguments about who would run
the room or who would do thefinal pass on a script where
everything suddenly felt like acompetition.
A lot of immaturity came out,like they would joke about
starting a production companyand they wanted to call it and
like the symbol that they wantedit to look like was a woman's,
(10:11):
you know.
So they had me spend anafternoon looking up graphics
for this like pagoda tent andmaking sure it could resemble a
woman's vagina.
There were a lot of sideprojects like that and it just
didn't feel great.
And there was also a lot ofside projects like that and it
just didn't feel great.
And there was also a lot oflike.
The star of the show, you know,was someone that he's iconic,
(10:35):
like he's.
I'm just gonna say it.
You guys can blur it out orwhatever, but it's fucking b****
.
So I was like starstruck.
You know B**** would joke hethinks you're cute.
You can take that to youradvantage.
So you know my 24-year-oldbrain I'm like f*** thinks I'm
cute.
(10:55):
This is so flattering.
Now in my 30s I'm like that waskind of f***ed up Because there
were times when the star wouldrefuse to go to set and f***
would ask me to go talk to himand work my magic.
Again.
It felt very flattering, I feltlike I had this superpower, but
it was really putting me in aterrible position.
(11:16):
There was one day that Iremember in particular.
The star would have likespecial jeans flown in from
London and there was one daythat the jeans didn't arrive, so
wardrobe was just going to givehim whatever other kinds of
jeans and it was like a wholecrisis.
(11:38):
The star refused to go to setand was very frustrated and so
he was like can you go to setand talk to him and convince him
that his pants look good?
There was another writer there,a woman.
She was like standing by mydesk and she's like you can't
ever go to set by herself whenhe's throwing a hissy fit.
So I think went with me thattime we were standing outside
the star's trailer.
It was the first time I hadever had a rolled cigarette,
(11:59):
because I couldn't say no tooffering me one of his own
rolled cigarettes and we justlike kibitzed and stuff.
But I remember being like thisis really weird.
Like part of my job is to smokea cigarette with the star and
tell him that his pants lookgood.
And the star's trailer was setup like a bar.
So he was like come inside,I'll make you guys a drink, and
(12:21):
was joking about having thedrink and I'm like, aren't we
here to get him to set the drink?
And I'm like, aren't we here toget him to set?
It was very surreal, it was.
It was like there was thiswhole game going on, that.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I didn't really understand.
On the third season of the showI came in and what started to
get disturbing to me was that hewas still doing the thing he
had done on our previous show offinding a villain and holding
people together and it's like,no, that made sense because
there was an actual bad guy onthat job.
This show didn't have to bethat way, but he was still kind
of fictionalizing andidentifying and it reached a
(12:57):
point where there was a writerwho I guess he felt threatened
by.
So he was kind of maneuveringand cutting his legs off and I
was probably unconsciously aparty to that, because that guy
we didn't really get along.
But Bleep and his co-showrunnermade the decision that they're
going to fire him.
Bleep tells the entire writingstaff on the show, one by one,
(13:18):
that the guy is going to befired.
But don't tell him but I haveto tell you because you can't
talk to him about any ideas fornext season.
We weren't really havingserious discussions about a next
season at that point.
That was basically about B***wanting everybody to know that
this guy was going to be firedand, at a weird fucked up level,
wanting to put us all in thisstressful situation where we
(13:40):
couldn't tell him.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
The way B*** and his co-show ran around the room was
very hierarchical.
It was like you were your leveland there was a writer who was
lower level and there were a lotof problems with him not
respecting his boundaries.
This all culminated in a daywhere they were doing a casting
session for the writer's episode.
B***h would always go into thecasting session and he had a
(14:08):
rule that he was the one thatmade the decisions.
If you were another writer,even if it was your episode and
you had a strong opinion, hedidn't want you to talk.
So I remember they had gone totheir session Then had come in
with like a head of steam, likeyou could hear the noise of him
coming down the hallway.
He and this other writer hadcome in and they were shouting
(14:34):
at each other, told the writer,get the fuck out.
It felt like he was a caged dog, like you could see the rage
radiating off of him.
He was shaking.
He was a completely differentperson in that moment.
I think the thing that scaredme the most was, you know was
someone who always had a planand in that moment his rage just
felt so out of control.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
One of his favorite jokes is oh, that's a nice shirt
.
Does it come in grown-up sizes?
Which is, you know, homophobicand shitty?
But it was just thoseconvenient go-to things to
undermine a little bit.
If there was any sort of threatto his standing, he would take
that very seriously.
Things would get pretty notfunny pretty fast.
He would tell stories about hewas on a double date with
(15:19):
another couple.
The guy seemed unimpressed withhim.
So B**** said do you have aproblem with me?
And the guy responded you'recommon.
And B**** slapped him out ofhis chair and for all I know,
that story is a lie.
It's like that thing in theDark Knight where Heath Ledger's
character tells the originstory of the scars on his face
and then he tells a differentstory Suddenly.
(15:41):
You have no fucking idea.
I'm not saying he's the Jokeror anything.
There's this sense of I don'tknow.
I don't know what was true ofwhat he told me about his
childhood.
I don't know what was true ofour friendship.
I don't really know who he isinside.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Eventually that show started winding down.
It was very clear it was notgoing to come back for another
season.
But he still had an overalldeal and he's like, even if the
show doesn't come back, I wantto keep you on as my assistant.
You're going to help me developshows.
He had this really great ideafor a show that he would talk to
me about in between us workingon things.
The story was about an abusedyoung girl.
(16:21):
I felt like I could see myselfin the main character and could
kind of speak to some of theexperiences.
So it wasn't just like it washis idea.
I felt like I was a part of it,like I was drawn to the show
and could speak to it.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
So I was very excited about that.
By the way, any fuckingshowrunner who's doing
development if you're listeningto this if you're having
assistants either personalassistants or writer's
assistants or scriptcoordinators if you're having
people write your outlines andtheir names aren't on that shit,
you're not doing them a favor,you're doing yourself a fucking
favor.
Cut it the fuck out.
(16:59):
That shit makes me furious.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I do think there was a feeling like could be
uncontrollable, but I still feltvery protected by him at that
point.
So I became his assistant, andthat takes us to chapter three.
It very quickly became clearthat we were not going to just
be spending time working on thispilot.
We got put on the show, which,if you've heard the rumors about
(17:27):
it, they're very true.
The show was a nightmare.
Wait, actually, hold on, let methink for a second.
Here it was, and both of thoseshows were nightmares for
completely different reasons,and so, like this part is going
to be very jumbled because thisis like where we're going to get
(17:47):
into some of the abuse.
So at the time I was engagedand I had ended my engagements.
So, like, emotionally, I wasall over the place and I was
working on these shows that werejust chaotic, and I think for
(18:08):
he was also a new father and Ithink he was just expecting to
work on his pilot and not be puton these chaos shows where it
was a lot of work this is wherehis ego really came out.
The pattern of griping aboutthe showrunner, like that was
all the time he found faultswith all the showrunners.
(18:29):
So I could feel his tension andhis ego.
I'm pretty sure we were onfirst and that was a chaos show
with two big ego showrunners,and then was added into the mix
and then it's when we went tothat's where the wheels really
came off.
One of the showrunners on isnotorious for not being great
(18:49):
around women, to the point thatbefore we took the job was like
I just want to let you knowthere's rumors about this person
, just something for us to beaware of.
I remember the very first timewe met him.
I don't think the room hadstarted yet, we were just going
into the offices to seteverything up.
(19:09):
It was downtown, so there's abridge where you can overlook
and see people passing below,and I were meeting him.
He's very handsome, charismatic, flirty, but I've been warned
about him and my big brother islooking out for me.
So we went outside and theywere smoking cigarettes and I
was just hanging out with themand he looks down at the bridge
(19:31):
below and he sees an attractivewoman and he turns around and
he's like sometimes I look at awoman like that and I just
wonder what the inside of hervaginal cavity looks like.
I could feel a lurch in mystomach.
This is my first time meetingthis man and this is the first
thing he says.
It was like he was activelytrying to be gross and I shared
(19:56):
a look and I was like, oh, hewas right, he's looking out for
me.
And then we drove home becauseat this point we would drive
everywhere together and he waslike you know why he said that,
don't you?
He was like no, he's likebecause he has an OBGYN table at
his house.
That's what he likes to do forforeplay.
(20:19):
To this day, I do not know ifthis is true or just something
he said to me, but I remember soclearly being like and we're
going to work for this guy.
There were moments with thatshowrunner that were like like
like one time before I ended myengagement, I was looking at
(20:40):
wedding dresses and officebecause I didn't have my own
office and the showrunner walkedin and he was like what are you
looking at?
And I was frozen because Ithought, oh shit, he's going to
see me not working.
I'm in trouble and he leansover me.
I could feel his breath on myneck.
I'm in trouble and he leansover me.
(21:01):
I could feel his breath on myneck and he was like wow, you
would look incredible in any oneof those.
There were so many moments likethat that were definitely red
flags and I would let know.
And he was like, just stay inmy office.
I warned you, you know.
And so all this culminated.
There was one day our kitchenwas an open area and it had like
(21:21):
a bar where you can lean overit.
I was talking to my friend andI was like leaning over the bar
and I was wearing a dress itwasn't a short dress where you
could see my, you know whatever,but I was leaning over in a
dress and walked by and grabbedmy ass.
There was no mistaking that.
He did it.
He like laughed afterwards andstuff, and like I looked at my
(21:43):
friend and walked into hisoffice and I started crying,
came in a couple minutes later.
He's like what's up?
And I said he grabbed my ass.
And you know his response waslike he was upset, but it was
also like I knew this was goingto happen.
Don't worry about it, I'll talkto him.
And I was like I want to reporthim and he's like well, we've
(22:08):
got to be smart about this.
And he kind of talked me downfrom it, but he was very much
like I will take care of thisfor you.
I will take care of this foryou.
I don't remember the exacttiming, if it was the next day
or a couple days later, but Icame into the office and said I
talked to him and he said it wasa total accident, like he'll
(22:30):
apologize if you want, but hedoesn't even remember doing it.
And I was like I told you he didand he's like, yeah, but he
also said you were leaning overand his hand must've just
brushed against you.
It just became all theseexcuses and I still was like I
think it's important we reachout to the studio and tell them
what happened.
(22:50):
So again, he was like I'll takecare of it, I'll talk to his
exec.
So he apparently called him andthen he told me that what he
had said I'm sorry if I startcrying is I'm like he told me
that you're a nobody, he's notgoing to ask the showrunner to
(23:12):
leave, but I don't want thingsto be uncomfortable for you.
So maybe the solution is thatyou just don't come into the
office anymore.
To this day, I think thatcomment set my career back in a
big way, because I lost myconfidence in a way that still
affects me, that one comment ofbeing told I was a nobody and
(23:33):
you know, I wasn't allowed towork in the office anymore as a
result of me being abused.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Maybe I should have seen what was going on with his
assistant and said, hey, thisisn't a good situation, Let me
try and help you get out of here.
I don't know when you readthose stories and some of those
guys that got me too'd likeHarvey Weinstein.
I never worked with him.
I saw him outside the big boyonce with an assistant, and that
assistant a male, is thescaredest person I've ever seen
(24:25):
in my life.
So some of those guys you knowright away you're dealing with a
predator.
We learn to expect thatbehavior, we learn to expect the
monster, and that makes itharder for people who are
friends with a person who's notbehaving appropriately to see
that behavior for what it is.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I remember feeling such animosity towards the exec
and the showrunner, but the oneI felt the most betrayed by,
honestly, was you were supposedto be the one protecting me.
This was the best you came upwith.
That was the day I lost myfaith, not only in him, but in
Hollywood.
That was the day I lost myfaith not only in him, but in
(25:03):
Hollywood.
The really sad part of this isit wasn't until a couple years
ago that I really startedtalking about this in a really
open way and someone brought upthe point.
Do you think?
He even called the exec, andthat was the first time I
realized he probably didn't Like, he probably didn't have a
conversation with the showrunner.
(25:24):
And that's the part that justdevastates me.
I feel so fucking stupid.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
These people are never going to have sharp claws
and pointed teeth and wolf ears.
They're going to look like yourgood friend and they're mostly
going to act like your goodfriend, and then, every once in
a while, they're going to dosomething completely
inappropriate.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
And it makes me feel like the nobody they claimed me
to be.
When you're at the point offeeling like you're dirt, then
you accept dirt.
So it was then that the abusereally started.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
This has been part one of Portrait of a Survivor.
Thank you for joining us.
Part two will be released intwo weeks.
Until then, Cody Vaughn.
Special effects provided byZapSplat and Pixabay.
(26:31):
Hollywood Confessional is aNinth Way Media production.
(26:52):
Follow us on socials atFessUpHollywood.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.