November 4, 2025 • 23 mins
Most of us struggle with falling into two general ways of being: overstimulated and productive or disengaged and tuned out. Lay Buddhist Adam Kane offers another option; a state that occurs in a third space called “relaxed alertness”. How do we begin to build the capacity for this?
In our third episode of Holy Echoes, Adam Kane revisits a session at the 2016 Festival of Faiths featuring travel writer and prolific author Pico Iyer as he discusses the concept of Stillness and how to stay close to what is most important in our busy and overcrowded lives. Pico challenges us still today to consider how we gather our inner resources, as every major religion from Buddhism to Christianity invites us to do.
This is more than a fascinating conversation. It is a practical look at how we can train our mind to reclaim transitional moments in our everyday life, finding stillness within movement as well as without. It is in this tangible approach to finding Stillness that we unleash the incredible capacities we have within us to live in that profound third space -- a calm state of focus.
Adam will be exploring themes of compassion, inclusion and belonging in a two hour meditation workshop called "Pathways to Belonging" on Wednesday, November 12 at the Festival of Faiths! More information and tickets are available at festivaloffaiths.org.
Pico Iyer
Born in Oxford, England and educated at Eton, Oxford, and Harvard, Iyer has been based in Western Japan for 28 years and spends much of the rest of his time in a Benedictine hermitage in California. He is a prolific essayist and is known for his travel writing and has written 15 books but his 2008 book on the XIVth Dalai Lama, The Open Road, drawn from more than 30 years of talks and travels with the Tibetan leader, was a national best-seller. The same is true of his most recent book, The Art of Stillness, the second TED Original ever to be published.
Adam Kane
Adam Kane has his undergraduate degree in neuroscience and a masters degree in Buddhist Philosophy. His journey has taken him to a forest monastery, years studying Tibetan Buddhism in Nepal, and now he is interpreting, translating, writing and developing curriculum for his root lamas and various other lamas and khenpos since 2013. He is based in Crestone, Colorado, and enjoys walking in the mountains in his spare time.
The Center for Interfaith Relations celebrates the diversity of faith traditions, expresses gratitude for our unity, and strengthens the role of faith in society through common action. They host the nationally renowned Festival of Faiths and offer year-round programming that fosters compassion in our world. They are also committed to sharing the insights and inspiration rooted in the wisdom of faith traditions, and strive to cultivate communities that are true to the motto of “Many Faiths, One Heart, Common Action.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pico Iyer (00:03):
Every major tradition in the world is just telling us
one thing, which is, give innerpeace a chance.
Sally Evans (00:12):
Welcome back to Holy Echoes, listening to
prophets then and now. I'm SallyEvans, and in this podcast from
the Center for InterfaithRelations, we revisit prophets
of past Festival of Faiths witha spiritual leader of today to
listen for echoes of revelation,enduring guidance and visionary
hope. Well, the Festival ofFaiths has been going on for 29
(00:37):
years now, and on stage back in2016 with the theme of sacred
wisdom, was Pico Iyer, a travelwriter, essayist who traveled
regularly for over 30 years, infact, with the Dalai Lama. On
this episode, we listened backnine years ago to revisit this
session called, "The ChangeBegins Within."
Pico Iyer (00:59):
And I was talking a couple of days ago about
watching his Holiness, the DalaiLama, and as he goes through
eight hours of his working day,I witness again and again, he
never takes even five minutesoff, and he's absolutely present
and completely attentive toeverybody around him for those
entire eight hours. And I thinkthat's in part because before he
(01:23):
even emerges from his hotelroom, every morning, he wakes up
at (01:26):
30 and does four full hours of meditation. Some of you may
have seen since he did come toLouisville a couple of years
ago, the great singer and poetLeonard Cohen. And if you saw
him, you noticed that he broughtto the stage a sense of intimacy
and a focus and of depth thatwe're not used to seeing at a
(01:48):
typical rock concert, and Ithink that's in part because he
spent five and a half yearsliving as a monk, and I watched
him in his monastery meditatingfor up to 18 hours every day,
collecting his inner resources.
Now most of us in this room arenot monks, but even Steve Jobs,
for example, who gave us thesedevices, famously came to all
(02:09):
his important decisions bywalking unplugged, just thinking
things out or having aconversation with friends. And
I'm certainly not the person tooffer any wisdom on this. A
travel writer talking aboutstillness sounds like a very bad
joke, but I'm guessing that justabout every one of you have
already begun to take certainmeasures just to ensure you
(02:32):
don't get engulfed, and maybemost of all, to recall what you
love and to remember what ismost important to you in your
life, because I think the dangerof an overcrowded schedule is
the same as that of anovercrowded desk or room, which
is that in moments of crisis,you can't lay your hands on
which what is most important. SoI'm sure some of you take a run
(02:55):
every day, or maybe you practiceyoga, or perhaps you have a
meditation practice, or perhapsyou just quietly cook when you
come back from the office. But Ithink we need something just to
step away from our lives and theworld, the better to understand
them.
Sally Evans (03:18):
Listening with me today is Adam Kane. Adam has his
undergraduate degree inneuroscience and a master's
degree in Buddhist philosophy.
His journey has taken him to aforest monastery in Northern
California, years studyingTibetan Buddhism in Nepal, and
now, since 2013 he has beeninterpreting, translating,
(03:38):
writing and developingcurriculum for his root Lamas
and various other lamas. He'sbased in Crestone, Colorado, and
enjoys walking in the mountainsin his spare time, Adam also is
returning to the Festival ofFaiths this November to do a
meditation workshop called"Pathways to Belonging". Adam,
Welcome to Holy Echoes.
Adam Kane (04:02):
Thank you so much, Sally, thank you for having me
Sally Evans (04:05):
So Pico has quite a bit to say on this concept of
stillness, and I'd love to askyou about that. Adam, most of us
aren't able to meditate for fourhours a day, necessarily, as he
mentioned, but that doesn't meanwe can't find ways to take time
for stillness. And I love how hesays that to lay our hands on
(04:27):
what is most important. I'mcurious what that looks like for
you. How do you practice orattempt this stillness on an
average day in 2025.
Adam Kane (04:41):
Yeah, that's a wonderful question. I was also
touched by his use of languageand the way he talks about such
an important issue in suchpractical terms. Yeah, in my own
life and practice, I am a bigfan of sitting meditation. I'm
also a fan of quiet, supinemeditation, lying down at the
(05:06):
beginning of the day and the endof the day. And I'm a big fan of
taking walks without earphones,without a podcast, although this
one would be lovely, I'm sure,but I like taking walks and
drives, without which picomentioned also in this talk,
(05:29):
without the radio, withoutheadphones, without looking at
my screen. So I think it'sthrough all those different very
frequent, almost dailyactivities that I balance my own
system, or at least try to. Andyou know, for example, when we
wake up, the body istransitioning from sleep and
(05:51):
dreams into waking reality. Oureyes are going to open, maybe
the sun's already up. There'sthings to do. We have emails to
check and plans to make, andmaybe even people in our home to
connect with and care for. Butstill, that transition is a
potent time, and so I feel justpausing for short periods of
(06:17):
time at transitional points inthe day actually is very
powerful and has a cumulativeeffect. This was a instruction I
got from one of my earlymeditation teachers, a British
Buddhist monk, Ajahn Amro, who'sa wonderful teacher and Abbott.
And he said, you know, throughthe day, there's actually
(06:39):
countless transitional momentswhere you finish one task and
then you start another task. Andthis includes even finishing
your dream and waking up andstarting the day, or finishing a
telephone call and then movingon to the next thing, or driving
somewhere and parking the car,which completes the drive, and
(07:01):
then you're about to get out anddo the next task. And all of
these transitional moments, weusually rush through them, and
there's just a continuity ofmotion, but they're actually
wonderful opportunities topause, and the pause doesn't
have to be super long. We don'thave to take a four hour pause.
In fact, in my own traditionthat I study in and and work
(07:24):
for, this is literally atraining slogan, short moments
many times, because itemphasizes that if we only ever
think of I meditate half an houra day, and The other 23 and a
half hours, I let my mind andthe world go wild around me.
(07:46):
It's hard to feel balanced andsatisfied. But if every hour or
two I find 30 seconds here, oneminute there, two minutes there,
in an elevator, in the bathroom,between things, and I take those
moments to come inside, gatherthings, connect with the body,
(08:06):
connect with the senses in thepresent moment, find some kind
of centeredness in the mind thatreally adds up over time.
Sally Evans (08:15):
I love that invitation to reclaim those
transitions. I'd never quiteheard it said that way, Adam
potent transitions. Isn't itinteresting, too. It struck me
as you were sharing that theyhave such great value in whether
it's art or music. I mean, thepause or the rest is what often
(08:36):
gives these forms such beauty,and yet we don't claim them in
our own life.
Adam Kane (08:43):
I was struck by by that also in pico's talk,
because he really seems to bepointing to the necessary dance
between periods of activity andrest, stillness and movement,
recharging or gatheringresources and then being
(09:04):
creative and productive. And Ithink that's such a beautiful
and important principle. So wekind of know that on the
physical level, but I think it'sa real art form to learn that
dance on the mental level aswell, and how to refresh
ourselves, and how to, as yousaid, reframe space, instead of
(09:25):
being an empty or negativething, being this wonderful
place of rest and recharge.
Sally Evans (09:36):
Let's return now and listen to more of Pico Iyer.
Pico Iyer (09:40):
And I think one reason why this all has a
certain amount of urgency iswhat we do in the world, how we
bring our thoughts into rightaction, as Asli was saying. But
another is, as you all know,life is going to make a house
call whoever you are, howeverexalted or unexalted you are,
suddenly a doctor's. Come intoyour room wearing a not so happy
(10:02):
expression, suddenly, a car isgoing to drive towards you on
the wrong side of the road.
Suddenly, as happened to me lastyear, you're spending five weeks
in an ICU with somebody whoselife seems very, very
precarious. And I always feelthat in those situations where
you're meeting real life, allthe time I've spent running
around or checking websites orwhatever I might be doing, even
(10:22):
on the treadmill, it's not goingto help me. The only thing that
will help me is when I'vecollected resources within so as
to give much more to the largerworld. And so at the festival of
faiths, it seems to me thatJesus went and spent 40 days and
40 nights in the wilderness. TheBuddha came to his realization
(10:44):
just by sitting still. At thetime of the Prophet, people were
meditating all around Mecca. TheJewish tradition gave us this
glorious bounty of the Sabbath,and God Himself rested on the
seventh day. So I think everymajor tradition in the world is
just telling us one thing, whichis give inner peace a chance.
Sally Evans (11:08):
Well, Adam, I think that's such an interesting few
lines that he has. Pico Iyerpoints out that every major
tradition seems to incorporate aversion of as he says,
collecting inner resources. I'mcurious, how does a Buddhist
approach a topic like this? I'dlove to hear a little bit about
(11:29):
your journey with TibetanBuddhism. How did you become
interested in this path, and howhas it shaped your identity?
Adam Kane (11:36):
Yeah, I also appreciated pico's framing it
that way collecting or gatheringinner resources, I like that
very much, and that resonatesvery, very strongly, because I
feel, from a Buddhist point ofview, we have different
approaches within Buddhism. It'sa very, as you know, a very
(11:58):
diverse and rich tradition. It'snot a process of adding
experiences and bits ofknowledge as much as it's
removing what's in the way ofaccessing the inner resources we
already have. I think thatthat's a it's an important
point. It may seem a littlesubtle or or abstract, but it
(12:20):
ends up being an importantpoint, because the first model
is very effortful, where we'resort of like building a career,
where we're trying to buildcredibility, knowledge
experiences and expanding ourcurrent sense of self to be
wiser and more spiritual, orsomething. But I think what's
(12:41):
more accurate is that our truenature, underlying our current
identities and limitations andwhatever we spend our time
doing, is full of extraordinary,rich treasures and resources. We
have incredible capacities ofheart, love and compassion, we
have incredible capacities ofmind, like insight and wisdom
(13:06):
that may only be partiallytapped so far, and so the
practices over time, more andmore reveal themselves to be
ways to uncover those untappedresources reconnect us with
deeper parts of our nature andunleash those capacities. And so
(13:27):
I really appreciate what picosaid when he said gathering
inner resources, because hecould have said gathering outer
resources, and I think that's animportant distinction that he
made, and with regard to themore personal side of that.
Yeah, my own journey, I gotturned on to Buddhist practice
(13:47):
and study right after graduatingfrom college in the year 2000
and somehow something reallyclicked, and I ended up in a
series of silent meditationretreats. A few years of that
led me to ordain as a ThaiForest monk in a Buddhist
(14:08):
monastery in NorthernCalifornia, as you mentioned.
And I stayed there for twoyears, living in the forest and
basically meditating full time.
It was a life changingexperience. Of course, I was 24
years old when I ordained, andthat opportunity for deep inner
exploration, having the timemonths and months and months to
(14:28):
cultivate tranquility and focusand insight, was a huge
opportunity for me, and reallychanged the course of my life,
although it would have beenprobably good for me to stay
longer, but nevertheless, Idisrobed after two years because
I met a Tibetan lama SophiaRinpoche, who I really wanted to
(14:49):
study with more, and so I movedfollowing him. I moved to
Colorado, and I've been with himnow for over 20 years. Those
drawn by the vibrancy of TibetanBuddhism, the fearlessness of
the good lamas, theCompassionate view that it
holds, which felt very, veryaligned to why I was interested
(15:11):
in the spiritual path in thefirst place, and the depth and
complexity of its philosophy. Itfelt like an endless ocean to
explore. So here I am, 20 yearslater, and it's still a joyful
exploration. My own teacher, mymain teacher, Sophie Rinpoche,
makes very importantdistinction. He talks about
(15:33):
stillness with movement andstillness without movement. This
is very interesting, because Ifeel like there's two planes on
which stillness is important.
First of all, I feel like itserves as a counter balance to
excessive stimulation,speediness and busyness, and
(15:56):
that aspect of stillness waswhat I feel that pico was
highlighting those rhythms ofbeing highly stimulated and then
moving into a quieter digestivespace are essential for the
health and vibrancy of the humanmind. That's the first sort of
plane, is positing stillness asseparate from movement, and that
(16:18):
has its own value andimportance. And I think that's
what my own main teacher, sokdRinpoche, means when he says
stillness without movement. Buthe also says that there's
stillness with movement, whichat first might seem puzzling and
confusing, what that might be,but actually, I think that is an
(16:41):
even more subtle, profound andpotentially important form of
stillness. I think thatstillness with movement points
to the fact that the mind hasdifferent layers and dimensions,
and part of the mind could berelaxing into stillness while at
(17:02):
the same time being fullyfunctional or active, having a
conversation, driving, cooking,going to work or anything else.
And this might seem like a farcry, but actually, through the
first kind of stillness, thestillness without movement, if
we really go deep into that andconnect with it, we can start to
(17:25):
build out its capacity androbustness. And it starts just
with very brief moments atfirst, but it can build and
build where we actually feel asense of stillness and
spaciousness within movement, orrather the movement is taking
place within a larger sense ofstillness and spaciousness, and
(17:45):
that then opens up thepossibility that we don't have
to just rely on the cycle ofoverstimulation and then finding
respite and rest to recharge.
Sally Evans (17:57):
Wow, you're kind of blowing my mind here with
opening this possibility ofaccessing stillness within our
everyday world, and whether I'mdriving kids to school or
whether I'm at work or in ameeting, you're incorporating
this kind of quality of beinginto my what I might call
(18:18):
regular life. I'm just curious,how would you step into that?
Adam Kane (18:23):
I mean, I don't want to pretend and give false hope
that it's something very easy,or that there's some kind of
trick or shortcut to thatcapacity. It is. It is a
profound outcome of training themind, so I don't want to
misrepresent it. But first ofall, I would recommend starting
with relaxation as the baselinefor meditation. In my tradition,
(18:48):
there's a saying that you know,if we don't start relaxed,
nothing really happens when itcomes to meditation. That
principle is very, veryimportant, and once we're deeply
relaxed, a lot of capacitiescome online that we may not have
noticed before, because normallywe're just sort of very
simulated, a little busy, alittle tired, maybe a little
(19:10):
stressed, and then when we havetime to relax, we want to flop
down on the couch and donothing, or turn on Netflix, or
go face down on our bed, or, youknow, have a drink and and make
our worries melt away. Andthat's natural, and that's
human, and I do that too. Butwhat that does is it leaves us
with a binary choice, eitherbeing highly jacked, stimulated,
(19:35):
busy and on hyper alert and alittle stressed for like work
mode or getting stuff done modeor checked out dull and slipping
into a blank state on the couchor in our bed when we're in our
quote, unquote relaxed mode. Andthere's only two options there,
(19:56):
over simulated or relaxing intodullness and. Actually
meditation occurs in neither ofthose spaces. It occurs in a
third space, which is relaxed,alertness, calm and clear. So
when, when that comes online,and we familiarize ourselves
with that and get morecomfortable, build the strength
(20:17):
of that third option, then thestillness with movement becomes
much closer to reality.
Sally Evans (20:24):
That makes sense, beginning with the the relaxed
openness state, and then thatallows us to enter into that
third space, which is such agreat way to think about it,
that is fascinating. Any otherthreads that you notice that
have kind of carried throughagain these nine years later,
(20:44):
from what Pico Iyer was sayingin 2016 any wisdom or
revelation, even caution thatyou hear echoing to the times
we're living in today.
Adam Kane (20:55):
I feel a very loving sense of caution in his talk.
One thing my teacher self doing,Pusha often says is, how quickly
did the last 10 years go by inyour life? How many things did
you think you do but didn'tquite get to and he said, If you
don't change your behavior, thenext 10 years will go in exactly
(21:15):
the same way that strikes me aspoignant, because pico is
warning us about the relentlessincrease in the speed and the
engagement of our devices andtech, and what he said is
exactly how it's played out. SoI think it's important we listen
to our own intuition sometimes,and you know, not have to wait
(21:39):
for a longitudinal study toprove that, you know, it's
healthy to be out in the woodsor to paint the picture instead
of just sitting and beingpassively entertained. I think
it's important that we accessour human intuition that is
coming out of our mind and bodyand telling us what we might
need to do to balance out theforces of the modern world.
Sally Evans (22:02):
Adam, I'm so grateful. It's been so valuable
on many levels to connect withyou.
Adam Kane (22:07):
Thank you so much.
Sally, it's been a real joy tospeak with you and participate
in this podcast.
Sally Evans (22:13):
We've been speaking with lay Buddhist translator and
meditation leader Adam Kane.
Adam will be exploring themes ofcompassion, inclusion and
radical belonging in ameditation workshop on
Wednesday, November 12, to helpattendees reset for the
festival, or just reset ingeneral. And there's more
(22:33):
information and ticketsavailable at
festivaloffaiths.org. Adam, wecan't wait to see you in
Louisville here in just a fewshort weeks. Thank you again.
Adam Kane (22:45):
Thank you so much, Sally. I'm very excited to come
back to Louisville, and thanksfor having me on your podcast
today. It was lovely.
Sally Evans (22:51):
Thanks also to Rip Reinhardt and his audio
engineering skills and to theteam at the Center for
Interfaith Relations for theirmultiple levels of support in
this project. I'm Sally Evans,and thanks for listening. If you
enjoy this podcast, we hopeyou'll give us a review and
we'll see you next time.
Every major tradition in the world is just telling us
one thing, which is, give innerpeace a chance.
Sally Evans (00:12):
Welcome back to Holy Echoes, listening to
prophets then and now. I'm SallyEvans, and in this podcast from
the Center for InterfaithRelations, we revisit prophets
of past Festival of Faiths witha spiritual leader of today to
listen for echoes of revelation,enduring guidance and visionary
hope. Well, the Festival ofFaiths has been going on for 29
(00:37):
years now, and on stage back in2016 with the theme of sacred
wisdom, was Pico Iyer, a travelwriter, essayist who traveled
regularly for over 30 years, infact, with the Dalai Lama. On
this episode, we listened backnine years ago to revisit this
session called, "The ChangeBegins Within."
Pico Iyer (00:59):
And I was talking a couple of days ago about
watching his Holiness, the DalaiLama, and as he goes through
eight hours of his working day,I witness again and again, he
never takes even five minutesoff, and he's absolutely present
and completely attentive toeverybody around him for those
entire eight hours. And I thinkthat's in part because before he
(01:23):
even emerges from his hotelroom, every morning, he wakes up
at (01:26):
30 and does four full hours of meditation. Some of you may
have seen since he did come toLouisville a couple of years
ago, the great singer and poetLeonard Cohen. And if you saw
him, you noticed that he broughtto the stage a sense of intimacy
and a focus and of depth thatwe're not used to seeing at a
(01:48):
typical rock concert, and Ithink that's in part because he
spent five and a half yearsliving as a monk, and I watched
him in his monastery meditatingfor up to 18 hours every day,
collecting his inner resources.
Now most of us in this room arenot monks, but even Steve Jobs,
for example, who gave us thesedevices, famously came to all
(02:09):
his important decisions bywalking unplugged, just thinking
things out or having aconversation with friends. And
I'm certainly not the person tooffer any wisdom on this. A
travel writer talking aboutstillness sounds like a very bad
joke, but I'm guessing that justabout every one of you have
already begun to take certainmeasures just to ensure you
(02:32):
don't get engulfed, and maybemost of all, to recall what you
love and to remember what ismost important to you in your
life, because I think the dangerof an overcrowded schedule is
the same as that of anovercrowded desk or room, which
is that in moments of crisis,you can't lay your hands on
which what is most important. SoI'm sure some of you take a run
(02:55):
every day, or maybe you practiceyoga, or perhaps you have a
meditation practice, or perhapsyou just quietly cook when you
come back from the office. But Ithink we need something just to
step away from our lives and theworld, the better to understand
them.
Sally Evans (03:18):
Listening with me today is Adam Kane. Adam has his
undergraduate degree inneuroscience and a master's
degree in Buddhist philosophy.
His journey has taken him to aforest monastery in Northern
California, years studyingTibetan Buddhism in Nepal, and
now, since 2013 he has beeninterpreting, translating,
(03:38):
writing and developingcurriculum for his root Lamas
and various other lamas. He'sbased in Crestone, Colorado, and
enjoys walking in the mountainsin his spare time, Adam also is
returning to the Festival ofFaiths this November to do a
meditation workshop called"Pathways to Belonging". Adam,
Welcome to Holy Echoes.
Adam Kane (04:02):
Thank you so much, Sally, thank you for having me
Sally Evans (04:05):
So Pico has quite a bit to say on this concept of
stillness, and I'd love to askyou about that. Adam, most of us
aren't able to meditate for fourhours a day, necessarily, as he
mentioned, but that doesn't meanwe can't find ways to take time
for stillness. And I love how hesays that to lay our hands on
(04:27):
what is most important. I'mcurious what that looks like for
you. How do you practice orattempt this stillness on an
average day in 2025.
Adam Kane (04:41):
Yeah, that's a wonderful question. I was also
touched by his use of languageand the way he talks about such
an important issue in suchpractical terms. Yeah, in my own
life and practice, I am a bigfan of sitting meditation. I'm
also a fan of quiet, supinemeditation, lying down at the
(05:06):
beginning of the day and the endof the day. And I'm a big fan of
taking walks without earphones,without a podcast, although this
one would be lovely, I'm sure,but I like taking walks and
drives, without which picomentioned also in this talk,
(05:29):
without the radio, withoutheadphones, without looking at
my screen. So I think it'sthrough all those different very
frequent, almost dailyactivities that I balance my own
system, or at least try to. Andyou know, for example, when we
wake up, the body istransitioning from sleep and
(05:51):
dreams into waking reality. Oureyes are going to open, maybe
the sun's already up. There'sthings to do. We have emails to
check and plans to make, andmaybe even people in our home to
connect with and care for. Butstill, that transition is a
potent time, and so I feel justpausing for short periods of
(06:17):
time at transitional points inthe day actually is very
powerful and has a cumulativeeffect. This was a instruction I
got from one of my earlymeditation teachers, a British
Buddhist monk, Ajahn Amro, who'sa wonderful teacher and Abbott.
And he said, you know, throughthe day, there's actually
(06:39):
countless transitional momentswhere you finish one task and
then you start another task. Andthis includes even finishing
your dream and waking up andstarting the day, or finishing a
telephone call and then movingon to the next thing, or driving
somewhere and parking the car,which completes the drive, and
(07:01):
then you're about to get out anddo the next task. And all of
these transitional moments, weusually rush through them, and
there's just a continuity ofmotion, but they're actually
wonderful opportunities topause, and the pause doesn't
have to be super long. We don'thave to take a four hour pause.
In fact, in my own traditionthat I study in and and work
(07:24):
for, this is literally atraining slogan, short moments
many times, because itemphasizes that if we only ever
think of I meditate half an houra day, and The other 23 and a
half hours, I let my mind andthe world go wild around me.
(07:46):
It's hard to feel balanced andsatisfied. But if every hour or
two I find 30 seconds here, oneminute there, two minutes there,
in an elevator, in the bathroom,between things, and I take those
moments to come inside, gatherthings, connect with the body,
(08:06):
connect with the senses in thepresent moment, find some kind
of centeredness in the mind thatreally adds up over time.
Sally Evans (08:15):
I love that invitation to reclaim those
transitions. I'd never quiteheard it said that way, Adam
potent transitions. Isn't itinteresting, too. It struck me
as you were sharing that theyhave such great value in whether
it's art or music. I mean, thepause or the rest is what often
(08:36):
gives these forms such beauty,and yet we don't claim them in
our own life.
Adam Kane (08:43):
I was struck by by that also in pico's talk,
because he really seems to bepointing to the necessary dance
between periods of activity andrest, stillness and movement,
recharging or gatheringresources and then being
(09:04):
creative and productive. And Ithink that's such a beautiful
and important principle. So wekind of know that on the
physical level, but I think it'sa real art form to learn that
dance on the mental level aswell, and how to refresh
ourselves, and how to, as yousaid, reframe space, instead of
(09:25):
being an empty or negativething, being this wonderful
place of rest and recharge.
Sally Evans (09:36):
Let's return now and listen to more of Pico Iyer.
Pico Iyer (09:40):
And I think one reason why this all has a
certain amount of urgency iswhat we do in the world, how we
bring our thoughts into rightaction, as Asli was saying. But
another is, as you all know,life is going to make a house
call whoever you are, howeverexalted or unexalted you are,
suddenly a doctor's. Come intoyour room wearing a not so happy
(10:02):
expression, suddenly, a car isgoing to drive towards you on
the wrong side of the road.
Suddenly, as happened to me lastyear, you're spending five weeks
in an ICU with somebody whoselife seems very, very
precarious. And I always feelthat in those situations where
you're meeting real life, allthe time I've spent running
around or checking websites orwhatever I might be doing, even
(10:22):
on the treadmill, it's not goingto help me. The only thing that
will help me is when I'vecollected resources within so as
to give much more to the largerworld. And so at the festival of
faiths, it seems to me thatJesus went and spent 40 days and
40 nights in the wilderness. TheBuddha came to his realization
(10:44):
just by sitting still. At thetime of the Prophet, people were
meditating all around Mecca. TheJewish tradition gave us this
glorious bounty of the Sabbath,and God Himself rested on the
seventh day. So I think everymajor tradition in the world is
just telling us one thing, whichis give inner peace a chance.
Sally Evans (11:08):
Well, Adam, I think that's such an interesting few
lines that he has. Pico Iyerpoints out that every major
tradition seems to incorporate aversion of as he says,
collecting inner resources. I'mcurious, how does a Buddhist
approach a topic like this? I'dlove to hear a little bit about
(11:29):
your journey with TibetanBuddhism. How did you become
interested in this path, and howhas it shaped your identity?
Adam Kane (11:36):
Yeah, I also appreciated pico's framing it
that way collecting or gatheringinner resources, I like that
very much, and that resonatesvery, very strongly, because I
feel, from a Buddhist point ofview, we have different
approaches within Buddhism. It'sa very, as you know, a very
(11:58):
diverse and rich tradition. It'snot a process of adding
experiences and bits ofknowledge as much as it's
removing what's in the way ofaccessing the inner resources we
already have. I think thatthat's a it's an important
point. It may seem a littlesubtle or or abstract, but it
(12:20):
ends up being an importantpoint, because the first model
is very effortful, where we'resort of like building a career,
where we're trying to buildcredibility, knowledge
experiences and expanding ourcurrent sense of self to be
wiser and more spiritual, orsomething. But I think what's
(12:41):
more accurate is that our truenature, underlying our current
identities and limitations andwhatever we spend our time
doing, is full of extraordinary,rich treasures and resources. We
have incredible capacities ofheart, love and compassion, we
have incredible capacities ofmind, like insight and wisdom
(13:06):
that may only be partiallytapped so far, and so the
practices over time, more andmore reveal themselves to be
ways to uncover those untappedresources reconnect us with
deeper parts of our nature andunleash those capacities. And so
(13:27):
I really appreciate what picosaid when he said gathering
inner resources, because hecould have said gathering outer
resources, and I think that's animportant distinction that he
made, and with regard to themore personal side of that.
Yeah, my own journey, I gotturned on to Buddhist practice
(13:47):
and study right after graduatingfrom college in the year 2000
and somehow something reallyclicked, and I ended up in a
series of silent meditationretreats. A few years of that
led me to ordain as a ThaiForest monk in a Buddhist
(14:08):
monastery in NorthernCalifornia, as you mentioned.
And I stayed there for twoyears, living in the forest and
basically meditating full time.
It was a life changingexperience. Of course, I was 24
years old when I ordained, andthat opportunity for deep inner
exploration, having the timemonths and months and months to
(14:28):
cultivate tranquility and focusand insight, was a huge
opportunity for me, and reallychanged the course of my life,
although it would have beenprobably good for me to stay
longer, but nevertheless, Idisrobed after two years because
I met a Tibetan lama SophiaRinpoche, who I really wanted to
(14:49):
study with more, and so I movedfollowing him. I moved to
Colorado, and I've been with himnow for over 20 years. Those
drawn by the vibrancy of TibetanBuddhism, the fearlessness of
the good lamas, theCompassionate view that it
holds, which felt very, veryaligned to why I was interested
(15:11):
in the spiritual path in thefirst place, and the depth and
complexity of its philosophy. Itfelt like an endless ocean to
explore. So here I am, 20 yearslater, and it's still a joyful
exploration. My own teacher, mymain teacher, Sophie Rinpoche,
makes very importantdistinction. He talks about
(15:33):
stillness with movement andstillness without movement. This
is very interesting, because Ifeel like there's two planes on
which stillness is important.
First of all, I feel like itserves as a counter balance to
excessive stimulation,speediness and busyness, and
(15:56):
that aspect of stillness waswhat I feel that pico was
highlighting those rhythms ofbeing highly stimulated and then
moving into a quieter digestivespace are essential for the
health and vibrancy of the humanmind. That's the first sort of
plane, is positing stillness asseparate from movement, and that
(16:18):
has its own value andimportance. And I think that's
what my own main teacher, sokdRinpoche, means when he says
stillness without movement. Buthe also says that there's
stillness with movement, whichat first might seem puzzling and
confusing, what that might be,but actually, I think that is an
(16:41):
even more subtle, profound andpotentially important form of
stillness. I think thatstillness with movement points
to the fact that the mind hasdifferent layers and dimensions,
and part of the mind could berelaxing into stillness while at
(17:02):
the same time being fullyfunctional or active, having a
conversation, driving, cooking,going to work or anything else.
And this might seem like a farcry, but actually, through the
first kind of stillness, thestillness without movement, if
we really go deep into that andconnect with it, we can start to
(17:25):
build out its capacity androbustness. And it starts just
with very brief moments atfirst, but it can build and
build where we actually feel asense of stillness and
spaciousness within movement, orrather the movement is taking
place within a larger sense ofstillness and spaciousness, and
(17:45):
that then opens up thepossibility that we don't have
to just rely on the cycle ofoverstimulation and then finding
respite and rest to recharge.
Sally Evans (17:57):
Wow, you're kind of blowing my mind here with
opening this possibility ofaccessing stillness within our
everyday world, and whether I'mdriving kids to school or
whether I'm at work or in ameeting, you're incorporating
this kind of quality of beinginto my what I might call
(18:18):
regular life. I'm just curious,how would you step into that?
Adam Kane (18:23):
I mean, I don't want to pretend and give false hope
that it's something very easy,or that there's some kind of
trick or shortcut to thatcapacity. It is. It is a
profound outcome of training themind, so I don't want to
misrepresent it. But first ofall, I would recommend starting
with relaxation as the baselinefor meditation. In my tradition,
(18:48):
there's a saying that you know,if we don't start relaxed,
nothing really happens when itcomes to meditation. That
principle is very, veryimportant, and once we're deeply
relaxed, a lot of capacitiescome online that we may not have
noticed before, because normallywe're just sort of very
simulated, a little busy, alittle tired, maybe a little
(19:10):
stressed, and then when we havetime to relax, we want to flop
down on the couch and donothing, or turn on Netflix, or
go face down on our bed, or, youknow, have a drink and and make
our worries melt away. Andthat's natural, and that's
human, and I do that too. Butwhat that does is it leaves us
with a binary choice, eitherbeing highly jacked, stimulated,
(19:35):
busy and on hyper alert and alittle stressed for like work
mode or getting stuff done modeor checked out dull and slipping
into a blank state on the couchor in our bed when we're in our
quote, unquote relaxed mode. Andthere's only two options there,
(19:56):
over simulated or relaxing intodullness and. Actually
meditation occurs in neither ofthose spaces. It occurs in a
third space, which is relaxed,alertness, calm and clear. So
when, when that comes online,and we familiarize ourselves
with that and get morecomfortable, build the strength
(20:17):
of that third option, then thestillness with movement becomes
much closer to reality.
Sally Evans (20:24):
That makes sense, beginning with the the relaxed
openness state, and then thatallows us to enter into that
third space, which is such agreat way to think about it,
that is fascinating. Any otherthreads that you notice that
have kind of carried throughagain these nine years later,
(20:44):
from what Pico Iyer was sayingin 2016 any wisdom or
revelation, even caution thatyou hear echoing to the times
we're living in today.
Adam Kane (20:55):
I feel a very loving sense of caution in his talk.
One thing my teacher self doing,Pusha often says is, how quickly
did the last 10 years go by inyour life? How many things did
you think you do but didn'tquite get to and he said, If you
don't change your behavior, thenext 10 years will go in exactly
(21:15):
the same way that strikes me aspoignant, because pico is
warning us about the relentlessincrease in the speed and the
engagement of our devices andtech, and what he said is
exactly how it's played out. SoI think it's important we listen
to our own intuition sometimes,and you know, not have to wait
(21:39):
for a longitudinal study toprove that, you know, it's
healthy to be out in the woodsor to paint the picture instead
of just sitting and beingpassively entertained. I think
it's important that we accessour human intuition that is
coming out of our mind and bodyand telling us what we might
need to do to balance out theforces of the modern world.
Sally Evans (22:02):
Adam, I'm so grateful. It's been so valuable
on many levels to connect withyou.
Adam Kane (22:07):
Thank you so much.
Sally, it's been a real joy tospeak with you and participate
in this podcast.
Sally Evans (22:13):
We've been speaking with lay Buddhist translator and
meditation leader Adam Kane.
Adam will be exploring themes ofcompassion, inclusion and
radical belonging in ameditation workshop on
Wednesday, November 12, to helpattendees reset for the
festival, or just reset ingeneral. And there's more
(22:33):
information and ticketsavailable at
festivaloffaiths.org. Adam, wecan't wait to see you in
Louisville here in just a fewshort weeks. Thank you again.
Adam Kane (22:45):
Thank you so much, Sally. I'm very excited to come
back to Louisville, and thanksfor having me on your podcast
today. It was lovely.
Sally Evans (22:51):
Thanks also to Rip Reinhardt and his audio
engineering skills and to theteam at the Center for
Interfaith Relations for theirmultiple levels of support in
this project. I'm Sally Evans,and thanks for listening. If you
enjoy this podcast, we hopeyou'll give us a review and
we'll see you next time.
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