December 12, 2023 • 20 mins
December 12, 2023
113. Built to Last, Not in Southwest Florida
Today we take a closer look into the eye-opening world of homeownership risks, particularly in the aftermath of Hurricane Ian in Southwest Florida. My guest is Aris Papadopoulos, a construction expert and my partner in our documentary film, Built to Last: Buyer Beware. As we witness the extensive aftermath of Hurricane Ian, we discuss the shocking disparities in recovery rates between affluent areas like Naples and less fortunate ones like Fort Myers Beach. Aris shares insights on construction materials, resilience, and the urgent need for education in hurricane-prone regions. This is a critical episode for anyone considering homeownership in vulnerable areas. Stay tuned for eye-opening revelations and valuable advice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
George Siegal (00:00):
Thank you for joining me on this week's
Homeowners Be Aware podcast.
I'm making a documentary filmcalled Built to Last Buyer
Beware.
It's about the risks we takewhen we buy houses, where we buy
houses, and how much we reallyknow about what we're buying and
how safe it is.
Hurricane Ian is a greatexample of that in Southwest
Florida.
While I'm making thisdocumentary, I've teamed up with
(00:22):
Aris Papadopoulos.
He's my partner in this project.
He's incredibly knowledgeableabout all things construction.
He wrote the book Resiliencethe Ultimate Sustainability,
which was the Bible for my lastdocumentary film, the Last House
Standing.
So today we're going to talk toAris about what we've learned so
far during our first week ofproduction on the film.
I'm George Siegel and this isHomeowners Be Aware, the podcast
(00:46):
that teaches you everything youneed to know about being a
homeowner.
So we are sitting at a marinanear Fort Myers Beach that was
clearly damaged by Hurricane Ian, so if you hear a lot of noise,
it's background noise.
As they're fixing this, aris,what are your thoughts so far on
what we've seen down here?
Aris Papadopolous (01:05):
We've been to Naples, we've been to Punta
Gorda, we've been to Fort Myers,sanibel yeah it's a couple days
and we've covered quite a bitof ground here, all the places
you mentioned, but the groundzero for me is here at Fort
Myers Beach.
I mean, I've seen the imageryof post Ian and it's nothing
like when you're here in theground even a year later seeing
(01:28):
the extended destruction.
George Siegal (01:29):
Yeah, I was kind of surprised by that myself.
I thought they would be furtheralong when we got down here,
but you think it's going to takeseveral years.
Aris Papadopolous (01:37):
It's going to take a long time for this place
to rebuild and a lot of peoplewon't have the money to do it
Exactly yeah, I think what'sgetting rebuilt the quickest are
those communities that have themoney, that have their own
money, let's say, to pay for it.
We saw Sanibel an hour and ahalf to get to what usually
takes half an hour, taking anhour and a half, and 90% of the
(01:59):
traffic were contractors goingthere.
So contractors are going towhere the money is first to
rebuild and places like FortMyers Beach.
They were a middle incomecommunity a lot of empty lots.
George Siegal (02:13):
But even in a place like Sanibel, if they have
the money to start therebuilding process, the problem
they have?
Okay, all the mosquitoes, allthe bugs, all the garbage, all
the things that you can'tnecessarily control.
Even if you were to fix yourhouse, it seems like it would be
miserable to live there.
Aris Papadopolous (02:32):
Yeah, it's not the same Sanibel.
It'll never be the same andit's going to take over a decade
, I think, to even get back tothat comfort, and who knows
what's coming during the nextdecade.
I mean we're seeing thesestorms more frequent,
intensifying faster.
I mean I personally would betthere's going to be another
hurricane coming through thisarea way before that decade is
(02:55):
over.
So you got punched one, you'regoing to get another punch,
maybe in a couple years, maybein three, four years, if they're
even lucky.
George Siegal (03:07):
Now we also sat with the mayor of Naples and you
talk about a community that hasmoney.
So the area that they got backtogether the quickest was Fifth
Avenue.
I sit almost after a few dayssome of those restaurants were
reopening.
It's pretty amazing.
When you could put the moneybehind something and you have a
drive to do it, it happens a lotquicker.
Aris Papadopolous (03:26):
Exactly, I had a small lunch there
yesterday, Fifth Avenue.
I could not see any evidence ofdestruction no water lines on
the walls, no damaged tiles,nothing.
I mean they had to clean upeverything and they had a lot of
water on that street?
They did.
They had a couple feet of water.
They had cars we saw that werefloating on the streets just
(03:46):
banging into whatever wasdownstream.
George Siegal (03:50):
Yeah, the mayor's van.
She lost that to water and shewasn't able to drive it and it
was really, it's really prettyunbelievable what they went
through as well.
So what would be takeaways?
What have you?
Because you're an expert onconstruction and building to
begin with, but now that you seethis, are there any themes or
thoughts you have for people whoare thinking of relocating to
an area like this?
Aris Papadopolous (04:09):
Yeah, this is not a place to come and to live
.
Okay, visiting is one thing,taking a vacation is one thing,
but if you want to take yourlife savings let's say after
you've worked for many years andpluck it into a vulnerable
location, and especially a housethat's vulnerable because it
was built, let's say, in the 60sor 70s, as a lot of these
houses are, you're doingyourself and your family a big
(04:33):
disfavor.
I mean don't do it.
Some of the people we talked tosaid don't do it.
George Siegal (04:38):
Yeah, the people that are victims certainly say
that, but then you see so manypeople rebuilding no-transcript.
What was insanity was we heardabout in Sanibel?
Some people with ground levelunits were just fixing them and
still planning to live in them.
Aris Papadopolous (04:54):
There always be those kind of people and you
know, as I said, the next eventmay come in a year, may come
next year, we don't know.
George Siegal (05:04):
And if you had to give people advice, so okay, so
you're not living here even thethought process you should have
when you move into a house whatshould you be thinking about?
Aris Papadopolous (05:14):
Yeah, the first thing you should know is
the location.
What are the risks for thatlocation?
And when you talk about, let'ssay, most of the coastline here,
we've got three major hazardcategories We've got the wind,
we've got the water and we'vegot fire.
To always be concerned of.
Fire is everywhere.
We don't have the seismicissues that they have, let's say
(05:34):
, in the West Coast when itcomes to water.
Know the elevation of thelocation that you're planning,
the neighborhood and thelocation that you're looking at,
and I like to tell people,anything less than 15 feet is
risky.
George Siegal (05:48):
You're making me feel real good being a 10 feet.
Aris Papadopolous (05:52):
Anything less than 15 feet is risky.
You know.
15 to let's say 25 is kind ofin the middle.
You're okay, at least maybe forthe next 50 years, let's say
until sea level changes.
George Siegal (06:04):
Okay, but for people who don't know Florida,
what you're basically saying isalmost any place near the water,
you happen to live in a uniquespot where you have elevation,
naturally, but if you were totalk about Tampa, if you were to
talk about Naples or Clearwater, st Pete, none of those areas
are that high.
Aris Papadopolous (06:24):
These are all sandbars.
These are sandbars that naturecreated.
So we've settled on thesandbars.
You know and we know whathappens to sandbars they move
with time.
George Siegal (06:34):
But in most of those situations it's not
realistic to be 15 feet up, soyou're just assuming that that's
not going to work out for you.
Aris Papadopolous (06:42):
Well, we saw some houses that are pretty
elevated.
Some are one story, some aretwo stories elevated.
That's the future.
If you want to be here, you'vegot to be in an elevated house.
George Siegal (06:53):
But 15 feet would be tough to do.
It is that would seem like itwould be expensive.
We saw an interesting houseyesterday, made of polymer.
What did you think of thatconstruction?
Aris Papadopolous (07:03):
Yeah, I'd like to see this kind of
innovation in the buildingindustry and, of course, the
building industry is aconservative one where people
want to see how any material,any type of construction,
behaves over decades, not justover a test period or two couple
years.
But I like what I saw.
I mean essentially it's thematerial that we build boats
(07:27):
with that reinforce the kind offiberglass, fiber boards, and I
like the ease of construction.
So I think it's somethingworthwhile to try out, maybe not
on a massive scale until adecade or so goes by, but it's
one of the options.
Definitely better option thanwood is down here, because it's
(07:50):
termite free, it's fireresistant, but the rating they
tested to was 290 miles an hour.
I mean that's a category sixthat existed, type storm.
So I think it's one of theoptions that definitely need to
(08:12):
be put on the table.
George Siegal (08:14):
So we go from that extreme where you see a
house made of polymer thatthey're building and then, right
next to the hotel that I wasstaying at, they're building an
entire huge apartment complexout of wood, and that's the
ground floor to the third floor.
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Aris Papadopolous (08:30):
Yeah, I'm very surprised that this county,
Lee County, gave a permit forthat kind of construction,
especially after what they sawin Hurricane Ian.
I'm going to dig a littledeeper to find out what's behind
this, but to me that'sinadmissible.
George Siegal (08:48):
Yeah, I don't know how somebody could move in
there with any kind of comfort.
You have an entire apartmentcomplex that you assume.
If there's a storm, hundreds ofpeople in that complex need to
evacuate.
Aris Papadopolous (08:58):
You would not want to be riding it out in
that kind of structure, I meanwe know that even with straps,
even with metal reinforcement tokind of hold the wood together,
any building built with two byfours can only max out at, say,
135 mile an hour wind speeds,and we need to be building
(09:22):
things here to 165 mile an hour.
So I don't know how they gotpermitted, but we're going to
find out.
George Siegal (09:28):
And then?
So how would you carry thatforward to?
I look at a lot of the housesaround where I live in Tampa,
where they're building some overby the water.
That are six, seven milliondollar houses and they put
concrete on the first floor.
That's elevated, but the secondfloor is made of wood.
Aris Papadopolous (09:46):
So if a cat, a four storm, comes by, that
second floor is gone and youmight as well have wasted
anything that's on the firstfloor.
So you haven't done anything toprotect the house.
So it's a total loss From adestruction perspective.
They've exposed themselves toanything above.
Let's say a cat too.
They're gone.
George Siegal (10:07):
Well, we interviewed a woman this morning
who lost her duplex that shehad here.
We interviewed her on acompletely empty lot.
Her life is completely upendedand changed and she really
directly said if she had it todo over she would not live here
and she would not move back.
Is that the mentality we needto adopt?
(10:27):
Are we just making a mistake,trying to live in paradise?
Aris Papadopolous (10:31):
Well, paradise is always going to
attract people and what we knowis that you've got to be more
diligent to live in this kind ofrisky place, because you've got
to know this paradise, becauseit's pretty, it's close to the
water, it's got a lot of naturalbeauty.
But nature also has a dark side, and that dark side is the
(10:55):
destructive power of the forceof wind and water, and unless we
respect that, we're going tosee disasters over and over and
over again until everythingbecomes uninsurable here, and
the only way you can live hereis if you're super rich and
you're self-insured.
George Siegal (11:14):
Which is probably what's going to happen, is
interesting with all these emptylots here.
This woman, trixie, was tellingus that people from out of
state, a lot of families thathave a second house, a main
house somewhere else, like theidea of living in Florida, but
they're not here all the time sothey at least have another
option to go on with their lives.
If this is your primaryresidence and something happens,
(11:35):
you're screwed.
Aris Papadopolous (11:38):
Yeah, definitely.
If you've got the money, ifyou've got a second residence,
if you can afford to insureyourself because you could
rebuild with your whateverinvestment money you have, yeah,
this is a nice place to enjoy.
But if you don't, I'd say comeand visit, Come spend a week
here and then go back home toyour safety.
George Siegal (11:58):
Well, let's talk about Build to Last, buy or
Beware, because that's why we'rehere, and our film that we've
teamed up on, hopefully, isgoing to be a wake-up call for
people, first of all, to have amuch better understanding of
what you're living in.
Well, we find anybody we talkto.
We talk to a family that livedin Babcock Ranch that they
didn't know what they werebuying into.
Do you think we're gonna beable to wake people up?
Aris Papadopolous (12:22):
It's gonna take time and a lot of education
, but we gotta do it.
We gotta do it at every level.
We gotta do it at the adultlevel, but we also gotta do it
at the level of our children.
How are we gonna educate thefuture buyers, the future
homeowners?
And that's gotta start inschool.
So we gotta get this message.
George Siegal (12:42):
Do they teach much resilience in school?
Do you think that's beingoffered much?
Aris Papadopolous (12:44):
I don't think they teach very much.
No, they probably teach likeevacuation how do we evacuate
from the school?
They're teaching a lot ofthings about conservation, which
is great.
I mean, that's kind of pickedup over the last 20 years or so.
I remember my own daughterschecking on me when they were in
their elementary school onwhether I was doing the proper
(13:07):
recycling.
They had been taught in schoolwhat needed to be done and they
were inspecting me the parent,okay.
And I said, well, if they'realready sensitive to that, this
is not just a fad, this is asocial movement.
We've gotta create a parallelsocial movement for resilience.
George Siegal (13:27):
I would argue.
A lot of the people that areenvironmentalists, though, might
not know much more about theirhouse than the rest of us.
They just know how to throw outwhat they're done using.
To me, it's more of a completerethinking, because we've even
talked about the things that Ido wrong and I know better
because I'm doing this as aprimary means of what I do.
(13:50):
So if the people it's like adoctor who smokes, it's like you
know they, they should knowbetter, but we just have this
mentality that it's not going tohappen.
Aris Papadopolous (14:00):
Habits are hard to change.
You know habits are very hardto change and if you've gone
through a long period, let's saywhere nothing Negative has
happened, you assume nothingnegative will happen going
forward.
You know it's human nature wejudge the future based on the
past.
But if you take a biggerperspective of you know life and
earth and you know theEnvironment, you see how much
(14:24):
change has occurred over Decades.
You see that things are notconstant.
You know the hazards.
You know have been strong andhave destroyed and changed.
You know the coastlines and thelandscape of.
You know continuously.
George Siegal (14:41):
Almost every official I've ever interviewed
always says hopefully this willserve as a wake-up call.
Think, if we're not awake now,what's going to be the wake-up
call?
I mean, this area had it.
Yeah, they're just rebuilding.
They didn't raise the code.
Did they raise the code to 165?
Or they as high as SouthFlorida?
Aris Papadopolous (15:01):
They.
That's something I need tocheck, because sunny, sunny Bell
Island, the this, the town,let's say Told us that they had
unilaterally raised the code to165 above Lee County.
George Siegal (15:14):
I'd like to go back and check a little deeper
into what Lee County is doingand even if they did okay and
let's assume we'll give them aminute for the doubt it because
in Mexico Beach they did not.
They only went up to 140 milesan hour.
That's insane to me.
They had their reasons for it.
When you make a rule like a 165, are they going to let people
(15:35):
Slide on that if they have moneyand are coming into the area?
Are you going to turn downrevenue over principle and
safety?
Aris Papadopolous (15:43):
That's a question we're asking, you know,
because a lot of development isencouraged, whether it's on
vulnerable property or not,because Communities want that
extra revenue.
They want, you know, to paymore to their employees, they
want to provide more services totheir constituents.
So all this drives development,maybe to an extreme.
George Siegal (16:07):
Yeah, I think Money may talk for rebuilding a
community Quicker, but it alsotalks for who you let come in
and do things in your community.
Because you don't have the taxmoney from people, you got
nothing exactly, yeah.
Aris Papadopolous (16:21):
But those same officials don't realize how
expensive it is Later to fixthe things that were done in a
vulnerable manner, how expensiveit is to rebuild, and that's
what they're not consideringwhen they're inviting and
approving Development.
George Siegal (16:38):
That probably should not happen you know, a
great example for not thinkingfor the future is a lot of
communities when it's new andthey have a freeway system there
, and then once everythingexpands and grows out from the
center of the town, they go weneed to upgrade this, and they
want to put in all those cloverleaves and all the different
exits and everything, becausethey didn't plan for it when
they did it the first time.
So when you first built thatroad, if you had done it the
(17:00):
right way, it would cost afraction of what it takes to
then disrupt everybody's livesand fix a problem.
Why don't we apply that to morethings in the construction
industry?
Why aren't we thinking to thefuture?
Aris Papadopolous (17:14):
Well, because a lot of the building is still
speculative in nature.
In other words, there's a lotof development where the
developer, let's say, only haslike a three-year time frame.
So the thinking is, how am Igoing to keep my costs down, how
am I gonna, you know, completethis quickly and how I'm gonna
have the features that are gonna, like the honey, attracting the
(17:37):
bees, you know, or the flies,you know, will attract those
buyers to come in.
Look at the pretty you knowcosmetics of whatever I've built
by.
And then, basically, I'lldissolve my special purpose
development Company and I'llmove on.
You know, after the warrantyperiod, my hands are clean, you
know who's left to pay the bill.
(17:58):
Well, the residents and thecommunity, they're left to pay
the bill.
And all of us, you know who arepaying into state, state taxes
and national taxes.
You know, all of us are payingfor this.
George Siegal (18:10):
It would be so much easier if people were just
forward thinking.
And in the constructionindustry, what amazes me is the
amount of people that say well,it's built to code.
That's not really a great termto have to hear, yeah it's
better than not built to code.
Aris Papadopolous (18:24):
Yeah, Definitely better than not built
to code.
But most people have never beentold that code is only set at a
level to get you out.
It's not set a level to protectwhatever you're getting out of.
Yeah, so if you've put your youknow money into a house and
(18:44):
have put you know all your youknow furnishings and electronics
and everything we added thehouse you know, forget about the
code protecting any of that youknow.
That's why they say, oh well,that's why you buy insurance.
Okay, you buy insurance, butthen you have your deductible,
you have your cap, you have towait until insurance pays you
and there are things you canever replace.
(19:04):
So insurance is not a reasonfor us to be vulnerable and what
a lot of people are telling us.
George Siegal (19:10):
Insurance may be something that you Feel you have
, but it's not always easy toget them to pay you.
Their goal Is not to pay you inmany instances and to make it
as long and drawn out as theypossibly can.
Aris Papadopolous (19:22):
We're gonna be talking about that in the
film too.
George Siegal (19:25):
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff we're gonna be
talking about.
We'll keep you updated on theprogress of built to last buyer.
Beware, we're going to Tampanext and we're gonna be up in
the Panhandle of Florida.
We're working on a lot of bigthings.
I'm excited about where this isgoing to go Exactly.
Yeah, thank you for joining metoday.
If you have a story aboutConstruction or things that have
happened to you in your house,good or bad, I would love to
(19:46):
hear from you.
Fill out the contact form inthe show notes and, and let me
hear about it, you might be aguest on an upcoming episode.
Thank you again for listening.
See you next time.
Thank you for joining me on this week's
Homeowners Be Aware podcast.
I'm making a documentary filmcalled Built to Last Buyer
Beware.
It's about the risks we takewhen we buy houses, where we buy
houses, and how much we reallyknow about what we're buying and
how safe it is.
Hurricane Ian is a greatexample of that in Southwest
Florida.
While I'm making thisdocumentary, I've teamed up with
(00:22):
Aris Papadopoulos.
He's my partner in this project.
He's incredibly knowledgeableabout all things construction.
He wrote the book Resiliencethe Ultimate Sustainability,
which was the Bible for my lastdocumentary film, the Last House
Standing.
So today we're going to talk toAris about what we've learned so
far during our first week ofproduction on the film.
I'm George Siegel and this isHomeowners Be Aware, the podcast
(00:46):
that teaches you everything youneed to know about being a
homeowner.
So we are sitting at a marinanear Fort Myers Beach that was
clearly damaged by Hurricane Ian, so if you hear a lot of noise,
it's background noise.
As they're fixing this, aris,what are your thoughts so far on
what we've seen down here?
Aris Papadopolous (01:05):
We've been to Naples, we've been to Punta
Gorda, we've been to Fort Myers,sanibel yeah it's a couple days
and we've covered quite a bitof ground here, all the places
you mentioned, but the groundzero for me is here at Fort
Myers Beach.
I mean, I've seen the imageryof post Ian and it's nothing
like when you're here in theground even a year later seeing
(01:28):
the extended destruction.
George Siegal (01:29):
Yeah, I was kind of surprised by that myself.
I thought they would be furtheralong when we got down here,
but you think it's going to takeseveral years.
Aris Papadopolous (01:37):
It's going to take a long time for this place
to rebuild and a lot of peoplewon't have the money to do it
Exactly yeah, I think what'sgetting rebuilt the quickest are
those communities that have themoney, that have their own
money, let's say, to pay for it.
We saw Sanibel an hour and ahalf to get to what usually
takes half an hour, taking anhour and a half, and 90% of the
(01:59):
traffic were contractors goingthere.
So contractors are going towhere the money is first to
rebuild and places like FortMyers Beach.
They were a middle incomecommunity a lot of empty lots.
George Siegal (02:13):
But even in a place like Sanibel, if they have
the money to start therebuilding process, the problem
they have?
Okay, all the mosquitoes, allthe bugs, all the garbage, all
the things that you can'tnecessarily control.
Even if you were to fix yourhouse, it seems like it would be
miserable to live there.
Aris Papadopolous (02:32):
Yeah, it's not the same Sanibel.
It'll never be the same andit's going to take over a decade
, I think, to even get back tothat comfort, and who knows
what's coming during the nextdecade.
I mean we're seeing thesestorms more frequent,
intensifying faster.
I mean I personally would betthere's going to be another
hurricane coming through thisarea way before that decade is
(02:55):
over.
So you got punched one, you'regoing to get another punch,
maybe in a couple years, maybein three, four years, if they're
even lucky.
George Siegal (03:07):
Now we also sat with the mayor of Naples and you
talk about a community that hasmoney.
So the area that they got backtogether the quickest was Fifth
Avenue.
I sit almost after a few dayssome of those restaurants were
reopening.
It's pretty amazing.
When you could put the moneybehind something and you have a
drive to do it, it happens a lotquicker.
Aris Papadopolous (03:26):
Exactly, I had a small lunch there
yesterday, Fifth Avenue.
I could not see any evidence ofdestruction no water lines on
the walls, no damaged tiles,nothing.
I mean they had to clean upeverything and they had a lot of
water on that street?
They did.
They had a couple feet of water.
They had cars we saw that werefloating on the streets just
(03:46):
banging into whatever wasdownstream.
George Siegal (03:50):
Yeah, the mayor's van.
She lost that to water and shewasn't able to drive it and it
was really, it's really prettyunbelievable what they went
through as well.
So what would be takeaways?
What have you?
Because you're an expert onconstruction and building to
begin with, but now that you seethis, are there any themes or
thoughts you have for people whoare thinking of relocating to
an area like this?
Aris Papadopolous (04:09):
Yeah, this is not a place to come and to live
.
Okay, visiting is one thing,taking a vacation is one thing,
but if you want to take yourlife savings let's say after
you've worked for many years andpluck it into a vulnerable
location, and especially a housethat's vulnerable because it
was built, let's say, in the 60sor 70s, as a lot of these
houses are, you're doingyourself and your family a big
(04:33):
disfavor.
I mean don't do it.
Some of the people we talked tosaid don't do it.
George Siegal (04:38):
Yeah, the people that are victims certainly say
that, but then you see so manypeople rebuilding no-transcript.
What was insanity was we heardabout in Sanibel?
Some people with ground levelunits were just fixing them and
still planning to live in them.
Aris Papadopolous (04:54):
There always be those kind of people and you
know, as I said, the next eventmay come in a year, may come
next year, we don't know.
George Siegal (05:04):
And if you had to give people advice, so okay, so
you're not living here even thethought process you should have
when you move into a house whatshould you be thinking about?
Aris Papadopolous (05:14):
Yeah, the first thing you should know is
the location.
What are the risks for thatlocation?
And when you talk about, let'ssay, most of the coastline here,
we've got three major hazardcategories We've got the wind,
we've got the water and we'vegot fire.
To always be concerned of.
Fire is everywhere.
We don't have the seismicissues that they have, let's say
(05:34):
, in the West Coast when itcomes to water.
Know the elevation of thelocation that you're planning,
the neighborhood and thelocation that you're looking at,
and I like to tell people,anything less than 15 feet is
risky.
George Siegal (05:48):
You're making me feel real good being a 10 feet.
Aris Papadopolous (05:52):
Anything less than 15 feet is risky.
You know.
15 to let's say 25 is kind ofin the middle.
You're okay, at least maybe forthe next 50 years, let's say
until sea level changes.
George Siegal (06:04):
Okay, but for people who don't know Florida,
what you're basically saying isalmost any place near the water,
you happen to live in a uniquespot where you have elevation,
naturally, but if you were totalk about Tampa, if you were to
talk about Naples or Clearwater, st Pete, none of those areas
are that high.
Aris Papadopolous (06:24):
These are all sandbars.
These are sandbars that naturecreated.
So we've settled on thesandbars.
You know and we know whathappens to sandbars they move
with time.
George Siegal (06:34):
But in most of those situations it's not
realistic to be 15 feet up, soyou're just assuming that that's
not going to work out for you.
Aris Papadopolous (06:42):
Well, we saw some houses that are pretty
elevated.
Some are one story, some aretwo stories elevated.
That's the future.
If you want to be here, you'vegot to be in an elevated house.
George Siegal (06:53):
But 15 feet would be tough to do.
It is that would seem like itwould be expensive.
We saw an interesting houseyesterday, made of polymer.
What did you think of thatconstruction?
Aris Papadopolous (07:03):
Yeah, I'd like to see this kind of
innovation in the buildingindustry and, of course, the
building industry is aconservative one where people
want to see how any material,any type of construction,
behaves over decades, not justover a test period or two couple
years.
But I like what I saw.
I mean essentially it's thematerial that we build boats
(07:27):
with that reinforce the kind offiberglass, fiber boards, and I
like the ease of construction.
So I think it's somethingworthwhile to try out, maybe not
on a massive scale until adecade or so goes by, but it's
one of the options.
Definitely better option thanwood is down here, because it's
(07:50):
termite free, it's fireresistant, but the rating they
tested to was 290 miles an hour.
I mean that's a category sixthat existed, type storm.
So I think it's one of theoptions that definitely need to
(08:12):
be put on the table.
George Siegal (08:14):
So we go from that extreme where you see a
house made of polymer thatthey're building and then, right
next to the hotel that I wasstaying at, they're building an
entire huge apartment complexout of wood, and that's the
ground floor to the third floor.
What are your thoughts aboutthat?
Aris Papadopolous (08:30):
Yeah, I'm very surprised that this county,
Lee County, gave a permit forthat kind of construction,
especially after what they sawin Hurricane Ian.
I'm going to dig a littledeeper to find out what's behind
this, but to me that'sinadmissible.
George Siegal (08:48):
Yeah, I don't know how somebody could move in
there with any kind of comfort.
You have an entire apartmentcomplex that you assume.
If there's a storm, hundreds ofpeople in that complex need to
evacuate.
Aris Papadopolous (08:58):
You would not want to be riding it out in
that kind of structure, I meanwe know that even with straps,
even with metal reinforcement tokind of hold the wood together,
any building built with two byfours can only max out at, say,
135 mile an hour wind speeds,and we need to be building
(09:22):
things here to 165 mile an hour.
So I don't know how they gotpermitted, but we're going to
find out.
George Siegal (09:28):
And then?
So how would you carry thatforward to?
I look at a lot of the housesaround where I live in Tampa,
where they're building some overby the water.
That are six, seven milliondollar houses and they put
concrete on the first floor.
That's elevated, but the secondfloor is made of wood.
Aris Papadopolous (09:46):
So if a cat, a four storm, comes by, that
second floor is gone and youmight as well have wasted
anything that's on the firstfloor.
So you haven't done anything toprotect the house.
So it's a total loss From adestruction perspective.
They've exposed themselves toanything above.
Let's say a cat too.
They're gone.
George Siegal (10:07):
Well, we interviewed a woman this morning
who lost her duplex that shehad here.
We interviewed her on acompletely empty lot.
Her life is completely upendedand changed and she really
directly said if she had it todo over she would not live here
and she would not move back.
Is that the mentality we needto adopt?
(10:27):
Are we just making a mistake,trying to live in paradise?
Aris Papadopolous (10:31):
Well, paradise is always going to
attract people and what we knowis that you've got to be more
diligent to live in this kind ofrisky place, because you've got
to know this paradise, becauseit's pretty, it's close to the
water, it's got a lot of naturalbeauty.
But nature also has a dark side, and that dark side is the
(10:55):
destructive power of the forceof wind and water, and unless we
respect that, we're going tosee disasters over and over and
over again until everythingbecomes uninsurable here, and
the only way you can live hereis if you're super rich and
you're self-insured.
George Siegal (11:14):
Which is probably what's going to happen, is
interesting with all these emptylots here.
This woman, trixie, was tellingus that people from out of
state, a lot of families thathave a second house, a main
house somewhere else, like theidea of living in Florida, but
they're not here all the time sothey at least have another
option to go on with their lives.
If this is your primaryresidence and something happens,
(11:35):
you're screwed.
Aris Papadopolous (11:38):
Yeah, definitely.
If you've got the money, ifyou've got a second residence,
if you can afford to insureyourself because you could
rebuild with your whateverinvestment money you have, yeah,
this is a nice place to enjoy.
But if you don't, I'd say comeand visit, Come spend a week
here and then go back home toyour safety.
George Siegal (11:58):
Well, let's talk about Build to Last, buy or
Beware, because that's why we'rehere, and our film that we've
teamed up on, hopefully, isgoing to be a wake-up call for
people, first of all, to have amuch better understanding of
what you're living in.
Well, we find anybody we talkto.
We talk to a family that livedin Babcock Ranch that they
didn't know what they werebuying into.
Do you think we're gonna beable to wake people up?
Aris Papadopolous (12:22):
It's gonna take time and a lot of education
, but we gotta do it.
We gotta do it at every level.
We gotta do it at the adultlevel, but we also gotta do it
at the level of our children.
How are we gonna educate thefuture buyers, the future
homeowners?
And that's gotta start inschool.
So we gotta get this message.
George Siegal (12:42):
Do they teach much resilience in school?
Do you think that's beingoffered much?
Aris Papadopolous (12:44):
I don't think they teach very much.
No, they probably teach likeevacuation how do we evacuate
from the school?
They're teaching a lot ofthings about conservation, which
is great.
I mean, that's kind of pickedup over the last 20 years or so.
I remember my own daughterschecking on me when they were in
their elementary school onwhether I was doing the proper
(13:07):
recycling.
They had been taught in schoolwhat needed to be done and they
were inspecting me the parent,okay.
And I said, well, if they'realready sensitive to that, this
is not just a fad, this is asocial movement.
We've gotta create a parallelsocial movement for resilience.
George Siegal (13:27):
I would argue.
A lot of the people that areenvironmentalists, though, might
not know much more about theirhouse than the rest of us.
They just know how to throw outwhat they're done using.
To me, it's more of a completerethinking, because we've even
talked about the things that Ido wrong and I know better
because I'm doing this as aprimary means of what I do.
(13:50):
So if the people it's like adoctor who smokes, it's like you
know they, they should knowbetter, but we just have this
mentality that it's not going tohappen.
Aris Papadopolous (14:00):
Habits are hard to change.
You know habits are very hardto change and if you've gone
through a long period, let's saywhere nothing Negative has
happened, you assume nothingnegative will happen going
forward.
You know it's human nature wejudge the future based on the
past.
But if you take a biggerperspective of you know life and
earth and you know theEnvironment, you see how much
(14:24):
change has occurred over Decades.
You see that things are notconstant.
You know the hazards.
You know have been strong andhave destroyed and changed.
You know the coastlines and thelandscape of.
You know continuously.
George Siegal (14:41):
Almost every official I've ever interviewed
always says hopefully this willserve as a wake-up call.
Think, if we're not awake now,what's going to be the wake-up
call?
I mean, this area had it.
Yeah, they're just rebuilding.
They didn't raise the code.
Did they raise the code to 165?
Or they as high as SouthFlorida?
Aris Papadopolous (15:01):
They.
That's something I need tocheck, because sunny, sunny Bell
Island, the this, the town,let's say Told us that they had
unilaterally raised the code to165 above Lee County.
George Siegal (15:14):
I'd like to go back and check a little deeper
into what Lee County is doingand even if they did okay and
let's assume we'll give them aminute for the doubt it because
in Mexico Beach they did not.
They only went up to 140 milesan hour.
That's insane to me.
They had their reasons for it.
When you make a rule like a 165, are they going to let people
(15:35):
Slide on that if they have moneyand are coming into the area?
Are you going to turn downrevenue over principle and
safety?
Aris Papadopolous (15:43):
That's a question we're asking, you know,
because a lot of development isencouraged, whether it's on
vulnerable property or not,because Communities want that
extra revenue.
They want, you know, to paymore to their employees, they
want to provide more services totheir constituents.
So all this drives development,maybe to an extreme.
George Siegal (16:07):
Yeah, I think Money may talk for rebuilding a
community Quicker, but it alsotalks for who you let come in
and do things in your community.
Because you don't have the taxmoney from people, you got
nothing exactly, yeah.
Aris Papadopolous (16:21):
But those same officials don't realize how
expensive it is Later to fixthe things that were done in a
vulnerable manner, how expensiveit is to rebuild, and that's
what they're not consideringwhen they're inviting and
approving Development.
George Siegal (16:38):
That probably should not happen you know, a
great example for not thinkingfor the future is a lot of
communities when it's new andthey have a freeway system there
, and then once everythingexpands and grows out from the
center of the town, they go weneed to upgrade this, and they
want to put in all those cloverleaves and all the different
exits and everything, becausethey didn't plan for it when
they did it the first time.
So when you first built thatroad, if you had done it the
(17:00):
right way, it would cost afraction of what it takes to
then disrupt everybody's livesand fix a problem.
Why don't we apply that to morethings in the construction
industry?
Why aren't we thinking to thefuture?
Aris Papadopolous (17:14):
Well, because a lot of the building is still
speculative in nature.
In other words, there's a lotof development where the
developer, let's say, only haslike a three-year time frame.
So the thinking is, how am Igoing to keep my costs down, how
am I gonna, you know, completethis quickly and how I'm gonna
have the features that are gonna, like the honey, attracting the
(17:37):
bees, you know, or the flies,you know, will attract those
buyers to come in.
Look at the pretty you knowcosmetics of whatever I've built
by.
And then, basically, I'lldissolve my special purpose
development Company and I'llmove on.
You know, after the warrantyperiod, my hands are clean, you
know who's left to pay the bill.
(17:58):
Well, the residents and thecommunity, they're left to pay
the bill.
And all of us, you know who arepaying into state, state taxes
and national taxes.
You know, all of us are payingfor this.
George Siegal (18:10):
It would be so much easier if people were just
forward thinking.
And in the constructionindustry, what amazes me is the
amount of people that say well,it's built to code.
That's not really a great termto have to hear, yeah it's
better than not built to code.
Aris Papadopolous (18:24):
Yeah, Definitely better than not built
to code.
But most people have never beentold that code is only set at a
level to get you out.
It's not set a level to protectwhatever you're getting out of.
Yeah, so if you've put your youknow money into a house and
(18:44):
have put you know all your youknow furnishings and electronics
and everything we added thehouse you know, forget about the
code protecting any of that youknow.
That's why they say, oh well,that's why you buy insurance.
Okay, you buy insurance, butthen you have your deductible,
you have your cap, you have towait until insurance pays you
and there are things you canever replace.
(19:04):
So insurance is not a reasonfor us to be vulnerable and what
a lot of people are telling us.
George Siegal (19:10):
Insurance may be something that you Feel you have
, but it's not always easy toget them to pay you.
Their goal Is not to pay you inmany instances and to make it
as long and drawn out as theypossibly can.
Aris Papadopolous (19:22):
We're gonna be talking about that in the
film too.
George Siegal (19:25):
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff we're gonna be
talking about.
We'll keep you updated on theprogress of built to last buyer.
Beware, we're going to Tampanext and we're gonna be up in
the Panhandle of Florida.
We're working on a lot of bigthings.
I'm excited about where this isgoing to go Exactly.
Yeah, thank you for joining metoday.
If you have a story aboutConstruction or things that have
happened to you in your house,good or bad, I would love to
(19:46):
hear from you.
Fill out the contact form inthe show notes and, and let me
hear about it, you might be aguest on an upcoming episode.
Thank you again for listening.
See you next time.
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