January 30, 2024 • 39 mins
January 30, 2024
120. Sanibel's Story of Survival and the Road to Recovery with James Evans
Hurricane Ian left its mark on Sanibel Island, and today, we're diving into what comes next with James Evans, CEO of the Sanibel Captiva Conservation Foundation.
Through personal narratives and community resilience, we explore the challenges of rebuilding post-disaster. From redevelopment disputes to the emotional toll on residents, our conversation exposes the complexities faced by Sanibel Island.
We confront tough questions about coastal living and the realities of hurricane threats. Navigating insurance hurdles and legislative complexities, we offer insight into the ongoing struggles of homeowners in high-risk areas.
Looking ahead, we discuss the importance of transparency in real estate, stringent building codes, and the battle against unfair insurance practices. This episode serves as a call to action for consumer protection and guides those rebuilding after a storm.
Join us as we uncover the spirit of adaptation and resilience in the face of adversity. Tune in to discover the untold stories of survival and the unwavering determination of a community determined to thrive once more.
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Here's the link to the trailer for the documentary film I'm making: Built to Last: Buyer Beware.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
George Siegal (00:00):
In today's podcast episode, you are going
to learn what life is like aftera major disaster wipes out your
community.
Sanibel Island was one of themost beautiful places you will
ever visit.
I imagine it was prettyincredible for the people who
lived there too.
But in late September of 2022,southwest Florida was hit by
Hurricane Ian and it caused anunbelievable amount of damage.
(00:22):
I was down there recently aspart of the documentary film I'm
working on called Built to LastBuyer Beware.
This area is a tragic example ofwhat happens when older homes
meet a powerful hurricane.
My guest is James Evans, theCEO of Sanibel Captiva
Conservation Foundation.
We talked about what it waslike living through the
(00:42):
hurricane and now trying to getlife back to normal.
I'm George Siegal, and this isHomeowners Be Aware the podcast
that teaches you everything youneed to know about being a
homeowner.
James, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Thanks for having me Now.
You live in an area that was amajor bullseye for Hurricane Ian
(01:05):
.
You live and you work in thatarea.
Tell us what it was like whenthe hurricane hit down there.
James Evans (01:13):
Yes, so it seems like it was just yesterday when
Hurricane Ian hit SouthwestFlorida.
Of course, I am the CEO of theSanibel Captiva Conservation
Foundation and we're a smallnonprofit on Sanibel Island.
We own and manage about 2,000acres of land and we have a
(01:36):
marine lab.
We have habitat management.
We do a lot of conservationwork and water quality work in
the area.
So when Hurricane Ian hit, I notonly needed to prepare my own
family for the event, but I alsoneeded to prepare 40 employees
that lived and worked in theregion prior to the storm
(01:57):
impacting us, and it wassomewhat surreal.
We didn't have a lot of notice.
The hurricane was tracking tohit north, well north of us.
Tampa Tallahassee area is whereit was going and very similar
to Hurricane Charlie, which hitSanibel and Captiva Islands back
(02:19):
in 2004, the storm wobbled.
Within that last kind of 48hours the storm started to
change course and really startedtracking towards the Fort Myers
area.
At that point we were gettingnotice from the Lee County Board
of County commissioners toevacuate.
City of Sanibel issued anevacuation order At that point,
(02:45):
when you have worked tirelesslyto prepare all of your employees
and everyone and yourproperties.
We own and manage a lot of landbut we also have seven
different campuses where we havedifferent staff working, so we
had to prepare all thosebuildings.
Pretty much ran out of time togo ahead and get out of Dodge
(03:07):
and evacuate the area sounfortunately we had to hunker
down For people who don't knowthat area.
George Siegal (03:14):
Everything's at sea level there, pretty much.
There's no hills, there don'tseem to be very many elevated
areas, so when you have a stormsurge, it pretty much covers
everything, doesn't it?
James Evans (03:26):
Yes, so we're a barrier island.
Here on Sanibel and CaptivaIslands, Average elevation is
about four, four and a half feetand we experienced about 12
feet of storm surge 11 feet onaverage, but it was a
significant impact, and so ifyou have an average elevation of
four and a half feet, you'relooking at over six feet of
storm surge sitting on top ofthe landscape.
George Siegal (03:49):
Now, for people who have been there, they know
these places.
But for people who haven't,there's a huge market, bailey
supermarket.
There's a lot of restaurantsthat when you go to those places
you figure you're pretty farfrom the water at that point and
you can't even imagine thatthat would flood.
You could understand how thethings in front, but a lot of
places inland were severelydamaged, if not destroyed.
James Evans (04:10):
Yes, the Bailey's general store was wiped out.
In fact they just demoed theentire shopping center and it's
going to be rebuilt moreresilient.
But, yeah, areas that youthought would have been okay
because of the distance from theshoreline, they were impacted
as well.
And we know that the naturalsystems on the island that have
(04:32):
adapted over long periods oftime to these natural
disturbances such as hurricanesand wildfires and flood events
the natural systems actually didpretty good and they actually
protected a lot of theinfrastructure on the island.
But the storm surge itself, youknow, with 11 feet of water,
you know, coming up and coveringthe landscape, that is
(04:54):
something that most people onthe islands didn't expect.
The last time the islandsflooded to that degree was back
during the 1926 storm, whichagain very similar to Hurricane
Ian.
Not only did the winds impactthe structures on the island,
but the storm surge and endationwiped out agriculture, all the
(05:15):
agriculture on the island, andthat's what converted us from an
agricultural economy to atourism-based economy.
George Siegal (05:23):
Now, as far as building codes, a lot of the
structures there were made ofwood.
It wasn't a concrete island byany stretch of the imagination,
so is there anything that didbetter than other things, If
there were things that were madeout of concrete?
I saw a lot of houses thatlooked like nice homes that had
significant damage when I wasdown there.
James Evans (05:42):
Yes, so the wood structures that weren't built to
the current hurricane code,especially those codes that were
modified or changed afterHurricane Andrew hit Miami,
those were the homes that wereprobably impacted the most, Even
if they were elevatedstructures.
Those homes that were not builtto the current hurricane code
(06:04):
suffered greatly, especially theground level homes that were
built in the 70s and 80s.
Those homes that weren't builtto hurricane standards were not
only flooded but took on a lotof wind damage as well.
George Siegal (06:15):
Now, even if you have a concrete house and we're
making a film called Built toLast, buy or Beware, which we
were down there and weinterviewed you for so you have
a concrete home, it's on thebeach, but if you have 15, 20
feet of storm surge, or 10 feetof storm surge, it still can do
quite a bit of damage, can't it?
James Evans (06:34):
Absolutely so.
Even if your home is at groundelevation and you build it to
hurricane standards, if you havefive, six, eight feet of
saltwater in your home, there'sa good chance that you're going
to have to completely gut thathome and more than likely you
will not be able to rebuild thathome because of the FEMA 50%
(06:55):
rule.
George Siegal (06:57):
Depending on how old your house is right.
If you were already built tocode, then you could just fix it
.
If you had a current codeconcrete house.
James Evans (07:05):
If that home is actually above the FEMA flood
elevation, correct.
But if it's not above the FEMAflood elevation, then you would
not be able to rebuild that homeunless you built it above flood
elevation.
And I can tell you firsthandthat even homes that were built
to the current FEMA floodelevation, which a 12 feet of
(07:26):
storm surge that 12 feet ofstorm surge could have been a
foot to a foot and a half abovethe FEMA flood elevation in some
areas.
George Siegal (07:34):
Now what are the people doing that had all those
condos and duplexes?
There were a lot of places thatwere multi-unit places that had
ground floors and above.
Are they having to completelytear them down?
Has that just shut them downpermanently?
James Evans (07:51):
So many of the condos on the islands they are
rebuilding.
So if they had ground floorcondos, those ground floor
condos that are below floodelevation would not be able to
be rebuilt.
But the condominiums that areabove the FEMA flood elevation
and built to the current codecan handle the wind, can handle
the surge.
Those condos are being rebuilt.
(08:12):
Some of the condos along thegulf that suffered significant
damage are being torn down andrebuilt to new standards.
George Siegal (08:21):
Now what is the controversy?
Where do things stand?
In Captiva, where I know oneparticular place, they were
trying to rebuild it with a muchbigger footprint and on a
barrier island with one way off.
Adding a lot more structureskind of sounds counterintuitive
to a smart move.
James Evans (08:39):
Yes, I completely agree with you on that statement
.
So currently there is adevelopment on the north end of
Captiva called the South SeasIsland Resort and it's been a
wonderful resort.
It's provided a lot of greatmemories for people that have
visited Captiva and stayed andvisited and vacationed on
(09:01):
Captiva Island.
It was zoned at three units peracre and following Hurricane
Ian they lost a number of thebuildings on South Seas and they
approached the Lee County Boardof County Commissioners right
after Hurricane Ian with aproposal to rebuild.
(09:21):
They did not.
At that time they didn't have afully big plan, but the county
moved forward with amending theland development code and the
comprehensive land use plan theLee plan to eliminate the
density requirements at SouthSeas Island Resort, not for the
(09:42):
entire island of Captiva, justsimply for the South Seas Island
Resort.
It also increased the heightfor which all of Captiva would
be able to build back.
Of course we recognize that ifyou're going to build to current
FEMA standards you do have toelevate those buildings, but
(10:03):
what they're proposing is to gosignificantly higher than to get
just above the FEMA floodelevation.
They're going to go as high as64 feet, as what the proposal
indicates, and they're goingfrom 248 units or so up to 707
units.
So they're dramaticallyincreasing the density and
(10:23):
intensity of use at South SeasIsland Resort.
Under the false flag ofresiliency, they're suggesting
that what they're doing isprimarily to build back more
resiliently.
But if they want to build backmore resiliently on a barrier
island that is subject to futurestorm events and flooding, they
would hold the line on density,not increase that density and
(10:45):
put more people in harm's waythat have to use, as you stated
earlier, one road in and oneroad out.
We don't have theinfrastructure to support such a
development.
We can barely handle the amountof people that are on the
islands now, and that's with 70%of Sanibel being in
conservation.
Could you imagine if the entireisland was developed instead of
(11:09):
just roughly 30% of the island,on top of what's going on on
Captiva?
So we're really concerned.
Our community is very concerned.
We have unanimous oppositionand over 13,000 people signed a
petition and opposition to thedevelopment that's being
proposed out there.
George Siegal (11:27):
And do you think you guys are going to win?
James Evans (11:29):
Well, we just filed a petition to challenge the
county on legal grounds that theland development code is not
consistent with the LEAP planand we're going to continue to
move forward.
Again, we have unanimoussupport and we're currently
moving forward with all legaloptions that we have.
George Siegal (11:49):
Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that that kind of
thing would happen.
I mean, obviously, wheneverthere's a bad situation, there's
people that try to capitalizeon it for their own good.
I was struck, driving aroundthere, by just how different it
felt.
There almost seemed to be alayer of I don't know what that
stuff is that's covering things.
There was a lot of bugs, but Ihear it's coming back.
(12:11):
I mean, it was my favoriteplace to go in Florida, but it
just felt different right now.
How far do you guys think youare from being back to some
semblance of normal?
So we're coming along.
James Evans (12:24):
I think the challenge is going to be the
time it takes to redesign andrebuild a condo along the beach
or rebuild a resort that wascompletely leveled.
We've got the oldest resort onthe island Island Inn is in the
process of rebuilding theirentire.
They have a few buildings thatmade it through the storm that
were built to current hurricanestandards, but all of the old
(12:46):
cottages and woodeninfrastructure that they had
there the Kimbell Lodge and someof the other buildings there
that were impacted.
It's going to take them a longtime to rebuild those, probably
two to three years.
So we're confident that we'llhave a large number of resorts
coming up over the next twoyears, but I think in order to
(13:08):
get fully up, we're looking atprobably three to five years to
be back to where we were priorto hurricane.
George Siegal (13:15):
And what is the building standard, what's the
wind code and the heightrestriction or what's the FEMA
flood level?
James Evans (13:24):
Yeah, so I would have to look at the specific
wind codes, but I think there'ssomewhere around 180, 185 miles
per hour, I believe, is wherethe city of Santa Bell's wind
codes sit.
And of course, the FEMA floodelevation varies throughout the
island depending where you areon the island.
So there isn't.
Fema came out with new floodmaps just recently, so it really
(13:46):
depends on where you are on theisland and it's interesting.
George Siegal (13:51):
when we were down there, the amount of traffic
with all the contractors comingonto the island and going and
coming is not as easy as it oncewas.
I mean, during the summer itwould be crowded normally just
with people that were anxious toget there.
Now there's a lot of otherpeople that are coming out there
to do work.
James Evans (14:08):
Yeah, so the sheer volume of people on the island
is making it really challengingfor well, not only the
contractors are trying torebuild the resorts and
residential homes and businesseson the island, but it's making
it very difficult for the peoplethat live and work on the
islands as well, that have spentdecades here, like myself,
(14:29):
working on the islands.
I live about two miles from theSanta Bell causeway and it is
taking me anywhere from an hourto an hour and a half to drive
into the office, whereasnormally it would take me 10 to
15 minutes to get to work in themorning.
Because of the sheer volume ofpeople coming on and off the
islands, it's making itchallenging.
And then all of our staff thatleave in the late afternoon or
(14:53):
evening.
It's taking them anywhere froman hour and a half on a good day
and if they live in places likeCape Coral or Lehigh or other
parts of Southern Leigh County,it can take them three hours to
get home from work.
So you imagine what that'sdoing to people's morale and the
people that are coming andgoing to the island.
(15:14):
And not only that, you'resitting in traffic, you're
burning fossil fuels sitting intraffic to get on the islands.
It's challenging, especiallyfor someone who employs 40
people on the island.
George Siegal (15:27):
Are there restaurants open out there?
Did any place get back open?
James Evans (15:30):
There are.
We've got a number ofrestaurants on the island that
are open now.
We've got Doc Fords, we've gottraders, we've got mudbugs,
we've got the Santa Bell Deli.
We've got a number ofrestaurants that are coming on
and they're busy.
When you walk in there they'rehustling and bustling and we're
glad to see that they're reallystarting to come back.
George Siegal (15:52):
Now my wife is on a Santa Bell website and people
are posting amazing pictures ofshells that they're finding
because there aren't as manypeople there.
So it's actually a vacationopportunity for somebody who
really wants to have less of acrowd, I guess.
James Evans (16:09):
Absolutely.
Santa Bell is a special place,not only because we've been able
to preserve 70% of the islandfor wildlife and wildlife
habitat, but because of thecharacter of the island,
especially with Santa Bell andCaptiva, our white sandy beaches
, our shells, the shell capitalof North America.
(16:30):
The challenge right now isfinding accommodations where you
can stay.
Vrbos and other opportunitieslike that will allow you to stay
on the islands, but right nowit's just the challenge of
trying to find accommodations onthe island.
But our doors are open, we'rewelcoming people and if you want
(16:51):
to come to an island wherethere's wonderful opportunities
for families to enjoy thewonderful natural environment,
Santa Bell and Captiva are theplace to come.
George Siegal (17:02):
Now, is that conservation drive-through area
open yet?
Or the Shell Museum?
James Evans (17:07):
Yeah, so the Dingarly National Wildlife
Refuge has a wildlife drive.
It is open.
The Shell Museum is currentlyunder construction.
They're doing a major remodelfollowing Hurricane Ian and
they'll be open very soon.
I think they're shooting tohave their doors open by March,
so I know they're workingdiligently to complete their
remodel.
George Siegal (17:27):
Now a lot of people visit there.
We would be talking to lesspeople who actually live there,
but when you get across intoFort Myers you get across to
places where you live and allthose areas around there.
There were pockets ofsignificant damage.
So even the workers that arecoming to work they had to deal
with all this mess away from theisland where they live.
(17:47):
How's everybody doing with that?
James Evans (17:50):
Yes, so not only did the workers you know,
including myself and many of ourstaff you know they were, you
know we had to come to work Twodays after the storm.
We were on the island helpingour island recovery, helping
with the island recovery, youknow, helping to restore our
properties, getting them backonline, but our staff were
(18:11):
working to also, you know, puttogether their lives and rebuild
their homes and you know someof us still have construction
projects that are going on atour own homes where we're trying
to, you know, completeconstruction projects and things
like that.
So, yeah, it's been a challengeand, of course, dealing with
the traffic on top of trying todo the projects at your own home
and rebuild the facilities thatwe need to to run and operate
(18:34):
our organization.
It's been a challenge, for sure.
And, of course, you know placeslike Fort Myers Beach and
Matlachet, who were equally, ifnot more, devastated than some
of our areas, like Santa Mel andCaptiva, are still recovering.
If you drive to Fort MyersBeach today, it looks nothing
like the Fort Myers Beach priorto Hurricane Ian.
(18:56):
So you know it hurts.
Go out to them and you knowwe're one community Santa Bel,
captiva, fort Myers Beach, pineIsland, greater Fort Myers area.
We're all one community andwe're all working together to
rebuild.
George Siegal (19:08):
Yeah, fort Myers Beach was was dismal, I guess
you could say.
It looked like I mean they'restill cleaning up it was.
I was shocked by how long aroad it looks like they have
there.
James Evans (19:22):
Yes, if you want to figure out what Santa Bel could
have looked like afterHurricane Ian if it were
developed instead of 70, 70% ofit being in conservation.
Look to Fort Myers Beach.
Fort Myers Beach is highlydeveloped.
A lot of the structures therewere built in the 70s and 80s
and many of them were justraised completely leveled from
(19:42):
the landscape followingHurricane Ian and they are, you
know, really struggling to comeback and rebuild.
Places like Margaritaville havecome online, you know, since
the storm, so we're starting tosee people coming there and
people are really, reallyexcited to get back to Fort
Myers Beach.
People people love, you know,the beach environment.
That's the.
You know the character thatFort Myers Beach had prior to
(20:05):
Hurricane Ian and they'reworking really hard to bring
back Fort Myers Beach but,there's a lot of support for
that community and hopefullythey'll be coming back online
over the next several years.
George Siegal (20:14):
Yeah, and we always talk about the extended
consequences of a disaster.
So we interviewed this couplein Fort Myers Beach.
Their house is not livable andit's going to be a long time
before they if they ever getback in there.
But their son goes to school onSanta Bell.
It's an hour and a half toschool each way.
If they have to drive themtheir son, imagine that as a
parent now you've got a threehour commitment to get your
(20:36):
child to school, three hours toget them home if they have after
school activities.
I mean, this is life alteringin so many ways that most people
don't think about.
James Evans (20:46):
It is, and it's hard to believe that it was, you
know, a year and a half ago orso, that hurricane Ian, you know
, hit our, hit our shores.
And it is, it is life alteringthe.
You know, adding an hour and ahalf or two hours to your
commute every day has atremendous impact on your
quality of life.
And, you know, especially whenyou're living in a neighborhood
(21:10):
where every day, you walk yourdog or you write, you know, you
ride around the neighborhoodwith your family on your bike
and you see homes that are youknow, you know that are, that
are being demolished, or homesthat are still in a dilapidated
state that never came back.
It is, you know, it has animpact on your psychology of you
(21:31):
and your community.
George Siegal (21:32):
I guess I would ask you then is and you know I
live in Florida too, but Isometimes I scratch my head and
I go is it worth it?
When that happens to you, Iknow a lot of people can justify
it before the disaster becauseyou're living in paradise and
everything seems great.
But once you're living in thedisaster aftermath, is it worth
it?
James Evans (21:53):
Yeah, I think that's, you know, a question
that each individual has to askthemselves.
You know, in my situation, youknow I live in close proximity
to the coast, not on the water,but pretty close proximity to
the coast.
So that allows me to get toSanta Bella and kept to violence
, where I work relativelyquickly when we're not in a
recovery state.
(22:14):
Like I said, it takes about 10to 15 minutes to get to work on
a normal day without the volumewe're dealing with today, and so
I really enjoy being where I am, raising my family along the
coast and the Florida lifestylethat we have all become
accustomed to, especially ourcoastal waters, which were,
which are, a real big draw formany people like me that like to
(22:36):
fish and swim, you know, in theGulf waters, like to, you know,
walk along our beaches and joy,you know, the beach with our
families.
So that proximity is reallyimportant and you know, I think,
yeah, the answer is yes, butI've made the choice to live in
a home that is elevated, that,if there is a storm event, you
know we didn't developunderneath our home, you know,
(22:58):
of course, our hurricane saferoom is, you know, needs to be
elevated, but other than thatyou know, our home was pretty
resilient to the storm and Ithink that people need to make
make choices to have homes thatare they're going to be able to
make it through the nextcategory three, four or five
storm.
They want to be along the coast.
(23:18):
That's a choice they have tomake and be ready to live in a
state of recovery for a year,year and a half to two years as
we rebuild, and they can'tdepend on FEMA to rebuild their
home.
They can't, you know, depend ongovernment assistance.
They have to make the choice tohave the resources to be able
to rebuild on their own.
(23:38):
And we get to a point withinsurance where insurance just
isn't going to be there torecover, help us recover, and we
may have to self-insure.
So you know, it's really goingto limit the folks that will be
able to live in those coastalareas that are subject to the
next storm event.
So I think the free market, youknow, is starting to play a
bigger role in deciding who canand cannot live along the coast.
(24:01):
So I think that's somethingthat we'll all be dealing with
here in the future.
George Siegal (24:05):
And I know people here in Tampa that are
struggling to get insurance andwe didn't get that storm.
It missed us.
So I guess my question would behow are people in Sanibel?
How are people in Fort Myers?
Are insurance companies stillinsuring them?
Did their rates go upastronomically?
So it's just ridiculous and ithas to have an effect.
James Evans (24:25):
It is absolutely having an effect.
I've heard of people that arepaying, you know, $25,000,
$30,000 for a flood premium.
I've heard people that havebeen completely dropped, and our
organization, our windinsurance.
They want to drop three of ourproperties for wind insurance
(24:45):
and their properties that didn'thave.
We didn't have a single windclaim during Hurricane Ian, but
yet our insurance and our riskmanagers are assessing, you know
, whether or not we're going tobe able to get wind insurance on
the buildings that we have.
Again, didn't have a wind claim, no impact to any of the roof
structures from almost acategory five storm with
(25:05):
sustained winds over 130 milesan hour, approaching 150 miles
an hour, no wind claim, but yetwe're being dropped, and so I
think the insurance companiesare going to have to take
another look.
But again, I just don't knowthat.
You know, many of the peoplethat are living along the coast
and subject to the next stormwill be able to get that
(25:26):
insurance that they need for thenext storm.
George Siegal (25:28):
Are people having trouble getting their claims
paid?
Because I think that recentlegislation by here in Florida
that took away the right to getattorney's fees if you have to
sue your insurance company.
My feeling is, what?
What incentive does theinsurance company have to pay
the little guy's claim, knowingthat if I fight you I may end up
(25:49):
with only half of it becauseI'm gonna have to pay my lawyer
to go get my money?
I mean, it just seems likewe're all getting screwed.
James Evans (25:58):
Yeah.
So unfortunately, thelegislature is not making things
easy for you know, for for thevoters, for the people that live
and work here in in Florida.
It's not only on, you know, thehurricane flames, but they've
done the same thing as itrelates to Land use issues.
We're dealing with the sameissue at South Seas Island
(26:18):
resort when, if we would havechallenged the you know the Lee
plan itself, we would have beensubject to the, the prevailing
attorneys fees, and and so whatthat means is that if they run
the run the bill up to a milliondollars, they could put
organizations like ours Under,and so we have to pick and
(26:38):
choose.
You know what battles we want to, you know we want to take on
when it comes to Challengingthose issues and let Florida
legislature right now is lookingat a bill that would make the
Environmental groups and andcitizen suits when it comes to
challenging environmentalperverts with the deep, the
Florida Department ofEnvironmental Protection, the
(26:59):
water management districts.
They would have to pay thoseprevailing party attorneys fees
as well.
So I think the legislature ismaking it very challenging for,
for you know, the voters, thepeople, the property owners, to
be able to recover from the nextstorm and be able to maintain
Equality of life and speak out.
It's really catering To theinsurance companies, the
(27:23):
developers and others To win.
George Siegal (27:27):
Yeah, and there is insurance fraud.
I know there are people thatruin it for the good people, but
I've heard too many stories ofElderly people or just people
whose house was damaged and theinsurance company just didn't
feel like paying them and thosepeople are so upside down
because of that and to not beable to go after them and make
(27:47):
them accountable it's justmind-boggling to me, and you
know I'm probably guilty forhelping a lot of those people
get elected or voting for them,but I'm scratching my head going
.
Who are they representing?
James Evans (28:00):
Yeah, I completely agree.
And the question is you know,why would you paint everyone
with the same brush?
Go after the.
The insurance companies shouldspend the resources they need to
go after those fraudulentclaims.
You know require thedocumentation.
Go after those fraudulentclaims.
You know I know many peoplehired, you know private
insurance adjusters and they'vebeen able to, you know, really,
(28:24):
you know, get a great return onthose on those claims.
But you know those folks thataren't doing going through that
process maybe Are beingunderpaid for their claims and
things like that.
So I would I think theinsurance companies really need
to focus on the fraud that'soccurring.
There's.
There's places outside of theimpacted area there that are
(28:45):
being paid out.
I know this happened afterHurricane Charlie as well, where
you know people were makingclaims well outside of the area
impacted by Hurricane Charlieand they were being paid.
So I think the insurancecompanies need to do their due
diligence and not paint everyonewith the same you know broad
brush and Adopt in the Florida.
Legislators should not beadopting legislation that harms,
(29:08):
you know, the.
You know the, the little personthat is trying to just build
back after a major storm likehurricane Ian.
Oh, absolutely, I mean.
George Siegal (29:14):
It's like what they're doing is just saying we
had a problem, you're cuttinginto our profits, so we're just
going to punish everybody andthat'll teach you, and Instead
they should have done a betterjob at doing their job.
They should have doneinspections before they insured
a property.
There's, there's, so manythings they could have done and
the legislature could have putit at a dendem in there.
So the average person who aninsurance company bullies and
(29:38):
they do it all the time has arecourse to fight back and it's
just disgusting that they don'thave that anymore.
We don't have that anymore.
James Evans (29:46):
We don't and it makes it very challenging.
And these, you know the ratescontinue to climb and you know
there's there's properties thatyou know inland that weren't
impacted at all and of coursethey have to share the risk.
You know they have to spreadthat risk across.
You know big geographic areas,but I know of folks that are
well inland, that are that are,you know, suggest that they're
being responsible.
They're not building along thecoast and yet their insurance
(30:08):
premiums continue to climb andthey live nowhere near the coast
and and you know they'rethey're concerned about that.
They should be.
If you're punished for making asmart choice, it's like what?
George Siegal (30:18):
do you?
Do you just throw up your armsand go?
What chance do I have with Withthese knuckleheads that are
running everything?
So if you had to give sometakeaway to the people that are
running everything, so if youhad to give some takeaway points
here you kind of touched on ita little while ago.
But what can I do as aFloridian to give myself, my
family, our best chance ofsurviving the next big storm?
James Evans (30:43):
Well, I think number one don't build your home
in an area that's vulnerable tothe next major storm and storm
surge event and you have to makea choice for your you know, for
you and your family, where youwant to live.
But do your homework.
Make sure that the home thatyou're purchasing is not a home
(31:04):
that was flooded during the laststorm event, that your home is
built above the female floodelevation and maybe do yourself
a favor and go a little higher.
Don't do the bare minimum,recognizing, with sea level rise
and climate change, that sealevels are going to continue to
climb and that you don't want tobe in a situation where you're
building right at that minimumlevel.
(31:26):
You know.
Go as high as you can.
Make sure that you you know,have a builder that's building
to the Florida building code andmaybe beyond.
Again, don't do the minimumnecessary.
Put on a few extra straps, Makesure that you're you know
you're tie downs or make youknow holding down your roof and
connecting the entire buildingenvelope.
You know, use spray foaminsulation.
(31:49):
That kind of ties the entirestructure together, which not
only will make the building morestructurally sound, but it will
also improve the energyefficiency of that building,
reducing your carbon footprint.
That could contribute or reduceyour carbon footprint and maybe
that could be contributing toclimate change.
So I think there are things thatpeople need to do Make sure
(32:12):
that you, you know evacuate whenthere's a storm event.
Don't wait around and thinkyou're going to hunker down and
weather the storm.
There are many people on FortMyers Beach and in Southwest
Florida that lost their livesbecause they thought they could
weather the storm and never,ever, anticipated a 12 foot
storm surge.
(32:33):
I really think that the modelthat Sanibel has you know, the
model that Sanibel is, followingthis idea that less is more,
preserving more of the land forconservation and reducing their,
their developed area andinfrastructure on the island,
and concentrating that to 30percent instead of, you know,
(32:53):
developing the entire islandreally took a lot of the
development out of harm's way.
Again, could you imagine whatSanibel would look like if 100
percent of the island wasdeveloped instead of 30 percent?
So, and then, last but notleast, development on barrier
islands should be minimized.
You know, we know that barrierislands are the first line of
(33:14):
defense when it comes to thesemajor storm events and storm
surge.
Trying to reduce our footprinton the barrier islands not not
trying to find ways to justifymore development, like we're
seeing at South Seas IslandResort.
We should be reducing ourfootprint on these barrier
islands, not finding ways tojustify more.
George Siegal (33:33):
Yeah, and you did briefly kind of mention one
thing that I think is also aproblem, and that's disclosure.
When you, when you're trying tobuy something and you want to
know the history, you didn'tactually say disclosure.
But in Florida you don't haveto tell them if your house is
flooded before.
So if I'm buying a property inFort Myers Beach or or or
Sanibel, I can probably assumeit's flooded now, but in a lot
(33:53):
of places around our state ahouse has been underwater before
or had water and they don'thave to tell the person buying
it.
That's just anotherheadscratcher.
James Evans (34:03):
So I'm glad you brought that up because it is a
headscratcher.
I'm hearing every day aboutproperties on Sanibel, even in
my own neighborhood, and I'llgive you an example in a minute
of properties that right afterthe storm, you know, contractors
went in there, homeowner wentin there and they gutted their
entire structure, they rebuiltit without permits and they put
(34:26):
it immediately back in themarket.
And the property in my ownneighborhood, my property right
behind my home, when, duringhurricane, you know, ian, you
know I have video of water beingsix inches from the gutter of a
ground level home behind myhome that building was closed
(34:47):
out.
You know FEMA paid out theflood, you know, you know, paid
out the flood claim and thatproperty was sold.
The property owner that boughtthe property came in there.
They gutted it no permits,gutted it, rebuilt that home and
they're living in there todayand I imagine it'll probably
change hands again and you know,I don't know that it will ever
(35:09):
be disclosed unless somebodydoes their due diligence and the
research necessary to ensurethat they know that that home
was flooded and there's a goodchance it will be flooded during
the next major storm event.
George Siegal (35:20):
And I think that's why we need to just have
it where that becomes ano-brainer, that everybody just
asks that question when they'rebuying a property.
That you demanded A houseshould have a car fax report.
You know that has its history.
And first, if you buy a housedown there and you don't ask
that question, I think you'recrazy.
Maybe you're looking for abargain, but you know if you're
(35:41):
buying a house that's notpermitted, if you're buying a
house that's flooded, ask amillion questions and hold them
accountable so you know whatyou're buying.
James Evans (35:50):
I completely agree, and you should ask for the
elevation certificate, know whatthe elevation is of the
property you're consideringbuying and then start to look at
the storm surge maps that havebeen provided by the US
Geological Survey, lee County.
You know all of the localgovernments have flood maps that
show you know where the stormsurge was and the areas that
(36:13):
were impacted and compare thatwith your elevation certificate.
And if your realtor whichunfortunately the realtors don't
always know because thehomeowners don't disclose that
and the realtors always don'tdive into whether or not that
home was flooded so I think youneed to go beyond the realtor
and do your own homework, doyour own due diligence, because
(36:34):
it's really on you.
George Siegal (36:36):
Yeah, it's almost like a lawyer not asking their
client if they really did it,because then you have a hard
time representing them.
So I can understand whyrealtors are motivated a certain
way, but somebody's got to bethe stand up person here and do
the right thing, and, in lieu ofnot believing that anybody else
is going to do it, you have todo it yourself.
James Evans (36:54):
I completely agree and I have a friend that is a
realtor and they actually askedthe question did this home flood
?
And the homeowner said no, theyhad an open house last weekend
and a neighboring realtor showedup to their open house and told
them this home was flooded andtold all of the folks that were
(37:17):
at that open house that the homewas flooded.
And, lo and behold, the homewas flooded and they asked that
question.
So you know you haveunscrupulous, you know
homeowners that want to turn,turn the property, that don't
want to, you know that don'twant to lose a sale or they
don't want to have the homediscounted because it was
flooded and they're really justpassing their headache on to the
(37:39):
next homeowner, which is, in myopinion, very unethical and
buyer beware.
George Siegal (37:45):
Absolutely Well.
On that happy note, thank youso much for coming on.
You have so much greatinformation and I wish you guys
the best down there.
I mean, like I say I want, I'mrooting for Sanibel because I
want to come back there andstart going there again every
year.
It's just such an amazing placeand I know you got a tough road
ahead.
James Evans (38:04):
Well, we're excited to have you back and it was
really a pleasure participatingin your podcast, and you do
great work.
I really appreciate the servicethat you provide to homeowners,
educating them on what theyshould be doing to protect
themselves and how we can makeour communities more resilient.
So again, thank you so much andexcited to see you when you're
in town and give me a call andthen we'll grab lunch.
George Siegal (38:27):
Absolutely Looking forward to it.
Thanks, james, great Thank you.
If you have a story, good orbad, about your home or the road
back from a disaster for yourcommunity, there's a contact
form in the show notes.
Fill it out and you could be aguest on an upcoming episode.
I've also included the link tothe film I'm working on called
Built to Last Buyer Beware.
I hope you'll check it out andfollow our progress.
(38:50):
This film is going to be a wakeup call for a lot of people as
to why we need to do everythingwe can to have the safest house
possible.
Thanks again for listening.
See you next time.
In today's podcast episode, you are going
to learn what life is like aftera major disaster wipes out your
community.
Sanibel Island was one of themost beautiful places you will
ever visit.
I imagine it was prettyincredible for the people who
lived there too.
But in late September of 2022,southwest Florida was hit by
Hurricane Ian and it caused anunbelievable amount of damage.
(00:22):
I was down there recently aspart of the documentary film I'm
working on called Built to LastBuyer Beware.
This area is a tragic example ofwhat happens when older homes
meet a powerful hurricane.
My guest is James Evans, theCEO of Sanibel Captiva
Conservation Foundation.
We talked about what it waslike living through the
(00:42):
hurricane and now trying to getlife back to normal.
I'm George Siegal, and this isHomeowners Be Aware the podcast
that teaches you everything youneed to know about being a
homeowner.
James, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Thanks for having me Now.
You live in an area that was amajor bullseye for Hurricane Ian
(01:05):
.
You live and you work in thatarea.
Tell us what it was like whenthe hurricane hit down there.
James Evans (01:13):
Yes, so it seems like it was just yesterday when
Hurricane Ian hit SouthwestFlorida.
Of course, I am the CEO of theSanibel Captiva Conservation
Foundation and we're a smallnonprofit on Sanibel Island.
We own and manage about 2,000acres of land and we have a
(01:36):
marine lab.
We have habitat management.
We do a lot of conservationwork and water quality work in
the area.
So when Hurricane Ian hit, I notonly needed to prepare my own
family for the event, but I alsoneeded to prepare 40 employees
that lived and worked in theregion prior to the storm
(01:57):
impacting us, and it wassomewhat surreal.
We didn't have a lot of notice.
The hurricane was tracking tohit north, well north of us.
Tampa Tallahassee area is whereit was going and very similar
to Hurricane Charlie, which hitSanibel and Captiva Islands back
(02:19):
in 2004, the storm wobbled.
Within that last kind of 48hours the storm started to
change course and really startedtracking towards the Fort Myers
area.
At that point we were gettingnotice from the Lee County Board
of County commissioners toevacuate.
City of Sanibel issued anevacuation order At that point,
(02:45):
when you have worked tirelesslyto prepare all of your employees
and everyone and yourproperties.
We own and manage a lot of landbut we also have seven
different campuses where we havedifferent staff working, so we
had to prepare all thosebuildings.
Pretty much ran out of time togo ahead and get out of Dodge
(03:07):
and evacuate the area sounfortunately we had to hunker
down For people who don't knowthat area.
George Siegal (03:14):
Everything's at sea level there, pretty much.
There's no hills, there don'tseem to be very many elevated
areas, so when you have a stormsurge, it pretty much covers
everything, doesn't it?
James Evans (03:26):
Yes, so we're a barrier island.
Here on Sanibel and CaptivaIslands, Average elevation is
about four, four and a half feetand we experienced about 12
feet of storm surge 11 feet onaverage, but it was a
significant impact, and so ifyou have an average elevation of
four and a half feet, you'relooking at over six feet of
storm surge sitting on top ofthe landscape.
George Siegal (03:49):
Now, for people who have been there, they know
these places.
But for people who haven't,there's a huge market, bailey
supermarket.
There's a lot of restaurantsthat when you go to those places
you figure you're pretty farfrom the water at that point and
you can't even imagine thatthat would flood.
You could understand how thethings in front, but a lot of
places inland were severelydamaged, if not destroyed.
James Evans (04:10):
Yes, the Bailey's general store was wiped out.
In fact they just demoed theentire shopping center and it's
going to be rebuilt moreresilient.
But, yeah, areas that youthought would have been okay
because of the distance from theshoreline, they were impacted
as well.
And we know that the naturalsystems on the island that have
(04:32):
adapted over long periods oftime to these natural
disturbances such as hurricanesand wildfires and flood events
the natural systems actually didpretty good and they actually
protected a lot of theinfrastructure on the island.
But the storm surge itself, youknow, with 11 feet of water,
you know, coming up and coveringthe landscape, that is
(04:54):
something that most people onthe islands didn't expect.
The last time the islandsflooded to that degree was back
during the 1926 storm, whichagain very similar to Hurricane
Ian.
Not only did the winds impactthe structures on the island,
but the storm surge and endationwiped out agriculture, all the
(05:15):
agriculture on the island, andthat's what converted us from an
agricultural economy to atourism-based economy.
George Siegal (05:23):
Now, as far as building codes, a lot of the
structures there were made ofwood.
It wasn't a concrete island byany stretch of the imagination,
so is there anything that didbetter than other things, If
there were things that were madeout of concrete?
I saw a lot of houses thatlooked like nice homes that had
significant damage when I wasdown there.
James Evans (05:42):
Yes, so the wood structures that weren't built to
the current hurricane code,especially those codes that were
modified or changed afterHurricane Andrew hit Miami,
those were the homes that wereprobably impacted the most, Even
if they were elevatedstructures.
Those homes that were not builtto the current hurricane code
(06:04):
suffered greatly, especially theground level homes that were
built in the 70s and 80s.
Those homes that weren't builtto hurricane standards were not
only flooded but took on a lotof wind damage as well.
George Siegal (06:15):
Now, even if you have a concrete house and we're
making a film called Built toLast, buy or Beware, which we
were down there and weinterviewed you for so you have
a concrete home, it's on thebeach, but if you have 15, 20
feet of storm surge, or 10 feetof storm surge, it still can do
quite a bit of damage, can't it?
James Evans (06:34):
Absolutely so.
Even if your home is at groundelevation and you build it to
hurricane standards, if you havefive, six, eight feet of
saltwater in your home, there'sa good chance that you're going
to have to completely gut thathome and more than likely you
will not be able to rebuild thathome because of the FEMA 50%
(06:55):
rule.
George Siegal (06:57):
Depending on how old your house is right.
If you were already built tocode, then you could just fix it
.
If you had a current codeconcrete house.
James Evans (07:05):
If that home is actually above the FEMA flood
elevation, correct.
But if it's not above the FEMAflood elevation, then you would
not be able to rebuild that homeunless you built it above flood
elevation.
And I can tell you firsthandthat even homes that were built
to the current FEMA floodelevation, which a 12 feet of
(07:26):
storm surge that 12 feet ofstorm surge could have been a
foot to a foot and a half abovethe FEMA flood elevation in some
areas.
George Siegal (07:34):
Now what are the people doing that had all those
condos and duplexes?
There were a lot of places thatwere multi-unit places that had
ground floors and above.
Are they having to completelytear them down?
Has that just shut them downpermanently?
James Evans (07:51):
So many of the condos on the islands they are
rebuilding.
So if they had ground floorcondos, those ground floor
condos that are below floodelevation would not be able to
be rebuilt.
But the condominiums that areabove the FEMA flood elevation
and built to the current codecan handle the wind, can handle
the surge.
Those condos are being rebuilt.
(08:12):
Some of the condos along thegulf that suffered significant
damage are being torn down andrebuilt to new standards.
George Siegal (08:21):
Now what is the controversy?
Where do things stand?
In Captiva, where I know oneparticular place, they were
trying to rebuild it with a muchbigger footprint and on a
barrier island with one way off.
Adding a lot more structureskind of sounds counterintuitive
to a smart move.
James Evans (08:39):
Yes, I completely agree with you on that statement
.
So currently there is adevelopment on the north end of
Captiva called the South SeasIsland Resort and it's been a
wonderful resort.
It's provided a lot of greatmemories for people that have
visited Captiva and stayed andvisited and vacationed on
(09:01):
Captiva Island.
It was zoned at three units peracre and following Hurricane
Ian they lost a number of thebuildings on South Seas and they
approached the Lee County Boardof County Commissioners right
after Hurricane Ian with aproposal to rebuild.
(09:21):
They did not.
At that time they didn't have afully big plan, but the county
moved forward with amending theland development code and the
comprehensive land use plan theLee plan to eliminate the
density requirements at SouthSeas Island Resort, not for the
(09:42):
entire island of Captiva, justsimply for the South Seas Island
Resort.
It also increased the heightfor which all of Captiva would
be able to build back.
Of course we recognize that ifyou're going to build to current
FEMA standards you do have toelevate those buildings, but
(10:03):
what they're proposing is to gosignificantly higher than to get
just above the FEMA floodelevation.
They're going to go as high as64 feet, as what the proposal
indicates, and they're goingfrom 248 units or so up to 707
units.
So they're dramaticallyincreasing the density and
(10:23):
intensity of use at South SeasIsland Resort.
Under the false flag ofresiliency, they're suggesting
that what they're doing isprimarily to build back more
resiliently.
But if they want to build backmore resiliently on a barrier
island that is subject to futurestorm events and flooding, they
would hold the line on density,not increase that density and
(10:45):
put more people in harm's waythat have to use, as you stated
earlier, one road in and oneroad out.
We don't have theinfrastructure to support such a
development.
We can barely handle the amountof people that are on the
islands now, and that's with 70%of Sanibel being in
conservation.
Could you imagine if the entireisland was developed instead of
(11:09):
just roughly 30% of the island,on top of what's going on on
Captiva?
So we're really concerned.
Our community is very concerned.
We have unanimous oppositionand over 13,000 people signed a
petition and opposition to thedevelopment that's being
proposed out there.
George Siegal (11:27):
And do you think you guys are going to win?
James Evans (11:29):
Well, we just filed a petition to challenge the
county on legal grounds that theland development code is not
consistent with the LEAP planand we're going to continue to
move forward.
Again, we have unanimoussupport and we're currently
moving forward with all legaloptions that we have.
George Siegal (11:49):
Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that that kind of
thing would happen.
I mean, obviously, wheneverthere's a bad situation, there's
people that try to capitalizeon it for their own good.
I was struck, driving aroundthere, by just how different it
felt.
There almost seemed to be alayer of I don't know what that
stuff is that's covering things.
There was a lot of bugs, but Ihear it's coming back.
(12:11):
I mean, it was my favoriteplace to go in Florida, but it
just felt different right now.
How far do you guys think youare from being back to some
semblance of normal?
So we're coming along.
James Evans (12:24):
I think the challenge is going to be the
time it takes to redesign andrebuild a condo along the beach
or rebuild a resort that wascompletely leveled.
We've got the oldest resort onthe island Island Inn is in the
process of rebuilding theirentire.
They have a few buildings thatmade it through the storm that
were built to current hurricanestandards, but all of the old
(12:46):
cottages and woodeninfrastructure that they had
there the Kimbell Lodge and someof the other buildings there
that were impacted.
It's going to take them a longtime to rebuild those, probably
two to three years.
So we're confident that we'llhave a large number of resorts
coming up over the next twoyears, but I think in order to
(13:08):
get fully up, we're looking atprobably three to five years to
be back to where we were priorto hurricane.
George Siegal (13:15):
And what is the building standard, what's the
wind code and the heightrestriction or what's the FEMA
flood level?
James Evans (13:24):
Yeah, so I would have to look at the specific
wind codes, but I think there'ssomewhere around 180, 185 miles
per hour, I believe, is wherethe city of Santa Bell's wind
codes sit.
And of course, the FEMA floodelevation varies throughout the
island depending where you areon the island.
So there isn't.
Fema came out with new floodmaps just recently, so it really
(13:46):
depends on where you are on theisland and it's interesting.
George Siegal (13:51):
when we were down there, the amount of traffic
with all the contractors comingonto the island and going and
coming is not as easy as it oncewas.
I mean, during the summer itwould be crowded normally just
with people that were anxious toget there.
Now there's a lot of otherpeople that are coming out there
to do work.
James Evans (14:08):
Yeah, so the sheer volume of people on the island
is making it really challengingfor well, not only the
contractors are trying torebuild the resorts and
residential homes and businesseson the island, but it's making
it very difficult for the peoplethat live and work on the
islands as well, that have spentdecades here, like myself,
(14:29):
working on the islands.
I live about two miles from theSanta Bell causeway and it is
taking me anywhere from an hourto an hour and a half to drive
into the office, whereasnormally it would take me 10 to
15 minutes to get to work in themorning.
Because of the sheer volume ofpeople coming on and off the
islands, it's making itchallenging.
And then all of our staff thatleave in the late afternoon or
(14:53):
evening.
It's taking them anywhere froman hour and a half on a good day
and if they live in places likeCape Coral or Lehigh or other
parts of Southern Leigh County,it can take them three hours to
get home from work.
So you imagine what that'sdoing to people's morale and the
people that are coming andgoing to the island.
(15:14):
And not only that, you'resitting in traffic, you're
burning fossil fuels sitting intraffic to get on the islands.
It's challenging, especiallyfor someone who employs 40
people on the island.
George Siegal (15:27):
Are there restaurants open out there?
Did any place get back open?
James Evans (15:30):
There are.
We've got a number ofrestaurants on the island that
are open now.
We've got Doc Fords, we've gottraders, we've got mudbugs,
we've got the Santa Bell Deli.
We've got a number ofrestaurants that are coming on
and they're busy.
When you walk in there they'rehustling and bustling and we're
glad to see that they're reallystarting to come back.
George Siegal (15:52):
Now my wife is on a Santa Bell website and people
are posting amazing pictures ofshells that they're finding
because there aren't as manypeople there.
So it's actually a vacationopportunity for somebody who
really wants to have less of acrowd, I guess.
James Evans (16:09):
Absolutely.
Santa Bell is a special place,not only because we've been able
to preserve 70% of the islandfor wildlife and wildlife
habitat, but because of thecharacter of the island,
especially with Santa Bell andCaptiva, our white sandy beaches
, our shells, the shell capitalof North America.
(16:30):
The challenge right now isfinding accommodations where you
can stay.
Vrbos and other opportunitieslike that will allow you to stay
on the islands, but right nowit's just the challenge of
trying to find accommodations onthe island.
But our doors are open, we'rewelcoming people and if you want
(16:51):
to come to an island wherethere's wonderful opportunities
for families to enjoy thewonderful natural environment,
Santa Bell and Captiva are theplace to come.
George Siegal (17:02):
Now, is that conservation drive-through area
open yet?
Or the Shell Museum?
James Evans (17:07):
Yeah, so the Dingarly National Wildlife
Refuge has a wildlife drive.
It is open.
The Shell Museum is currentlyunder construction.
They're doing a major remodelfollowing Hurricane Ian and
they'll be open very soon.
I think they're shooting tohave their doors open by March,
so I know they're workingdiligently to complete their
remodel.
George Siegal (17:27):
Now a lot of people visit there.
We would be talking to lesspeople who actually live there,
but when you get across intoFort Myers you get across to
places where you live and allthose areas around there.
There were pockets ofsignificant damage.
So even the workers that arecoming to work they had to deal
with all this mess away from theisland where they live.
(17:47):
How's everybody doing with that?
James Evans (17:50):
Yes, so not only did the workers you know,
including myself and many of ourstaff you know they were, you
know we had to come to work Twodays after the storm.
We were on the island helpingour island recovery, helping
with the island recovery, youknow, helping to restore our
properties, getting them backonline, but our staff were
(18:11):
working to also, you know, puttogether their lives and rebuild
their homes and you know someof us still have construction
projects that are going on atour own homes where we're trying
to, you know, completeconstruction projects and things
like that.
So, yeah, it's been a challengeand, of course, dealing with
the traffic on top of trying todo the projects at your own home
and rebuild the facilities thatwe need to to run and operate
(18:34):
our organization.
It's been a challenge, for sure.
And, of course, you know placeslike Fort Myers Beach and
Matlachet, who were equally, ifnot more, devastated than some
of our areas, like Santa Mel andCaptiva, are still recovering.
If you drive to Fort MyersBeach today, it looks nothing
like the Fort Myers Beach priorto Hurricane Ian.
(18:56):
So you know it hurts.
Go out to them and you knowwe're one community Santa Bel,
captiva, fort Myers Beach, pineIsland, greater Fort Myers area.
We're all one community andwe're all working together to
rebuild.
George Siegal (19:08):
Yeah, fort Myers Beach was was dismal, I guess
you could say.
It looked like I mean they'restill cleaning up it was.
I was shocked by how long aroad it looks like they have
there.
James Evans (19:22):
Yes, if you want to figure out what Santa Bel could
have looked like afterHurricane Ian if it were
developed instead of 70, 70% ofit being in conservation.
Look to Fort Myers Beach.
Fort Myers Beach is highlydeveloped.
A lot of the structures therewere built in the 70s and 80s
and many of them were justraised completely leveled from
(19:42):
the landscape followingHurricane Ian and they are, you
know, really struggling to comeback and rebuild.
Places like Margaritaville havecome online, you know, since
the storm, so we're starting tosee people coming there and
people are really, reallyexcited to get back to Fort
Myers Beach.
People people love, you know,the beach environment.
That's the.
You know the character thatFort Myers Beach had prior to
(20:05):
Hurricane Ian and they'reworking really hard to bring
back Fort Myers Beach but,there's a lot of support for
that community and hopefullythey'll be coming back online
over the next several years.
George Siegal (20:14):
Yeah, and we always talk about the extended
consequences of a disaster.
So we interviewed this couplein Fort Myers Beach.
Their house is not livable andit's going to be a long time
before they if they ever getback in there.
But their son goes to school onSanta Bell.
It's an hour and a half toschool each way.
If they have to drive themtheir son, imagine that as a
parent now you've got a threehour commitment to get your
(20:36):
child to school, three hours toget them home if they have after
school activities.
I mean, this is life alteringin so many ways that most people
don't think about.
James Evans (20:46):
It is, and it's hard to believe that it was, you
know, a year and a half ago orso, that hurricane Ian, you know
, hit our, hit our shores.
And it is, it is life alteringthe.
You know, adding an hour and ahalf or two hours to your
commute every day has atremendous impact on your
quality of life.
And, you know, especially whenyou're living in a neighborhood
(21:10):
where every day, you walk yourdog or you write, you know, you
ride around the neighborhoodwith your family on your bike
and you see homes that are youknow, you know that are, that
are being demolished, or homesthat are still in a dilapidated
state that never came back.
It is, you know, it has animpact on your psychology of you
(21:31):
and your community.
George Siegal (21:32):
I guess I would ask you then is and you know I
live in Florida too, but Isometimes I scratch my head and
I go is it worth it?
When that happens to you, Iknow a lot of people can justify
it before the disaster becauseyou're living in paradise and
everything seems great.
But once you're living in thedisaster aftermath, is it worth
it?
James Evans (21:53):
Yeah, I think that's, you know, a question
that each individual has to askthemselves.
You know, in my situation, youknow I live in close proximity
to the coast, not on the water,but pretty close proximity to
the coast.
So that allows me to get toSanta Bella and kept to violence
, where I work relativelyquickly when we're not in a
recovery state.
(22:14):
Like I said, it takes about 10to 15 minutes to get to work on
a normal day without the volumewe're dealing with today, and so
I really enjoy being where I am, raising my family along the
coast and the Florida lifestylethat we have all become
accustomed to, especially ourcoastal waters, which were,
which are, a real big draw formany people like me that like to
(22:36):
fish and swim, you know, in theGulf waters, like to, you know,
walk along our beaches and joy,you know, the beach with our
families.
So that proximity is reallyimportant and you know, I think,
yeah, the answer is yes, butI've made the choice to live in
a home that is elevated, that,if there is a storm event, you
know we didn't developunderneath our home, you know,
(22:58):
of course, our hurricane saferoom is, you know, needs to be
elevated, but other than thatyou know, our home was pretty
resilient to the storm and Ithink that people need to make
make choices to have homes thatare they're going to be able to
make it through the nextcategory three, four or five
storm.
They want to be along the coast.
(23:18):
That's a choice they have tomake and be ready to live in a
state of recovery for a year,year and a half to two years as
we rebuild, and they can'tdepend on FEMA to rebuild their
home.
They can't, you know, depend ongovernment assistance.
They have to make the choice tohave the resources to be able
to rebuild on their own.
(23:38):
And we get to a point withinsurance where insurance just
isn't going to be there torecover, help us recover, and we
may have to self-insure.
So you know, it's really goingto limit the folks that will be
able to live in those coastalareas that are subject to the
next storm event.
So I think the free market, youknow, is starting to play a
bigger role in deciding who canand cannot live along the coast.
(24:01):
So I think that's somethingthat we'll all be dealing with
here in the future.
George Siegal (24:05):
And I know people here in Tampa that are
struggling to get insurance andwe didn't get that storm.
It missed us.
So I guess my question would behow are people in Sanibel?
How are people in Fort Myers?
Are insurance companies stillinsuring them?
Did their rates go upastronomically?
So it's just ridiculous and ithas to have an effect.
James Evans (24:25):
It is absolutely having an effect.
I've heard of people that arepaying, you know, $25,000,
$30,000 for a flood premium.
I've heard people that havebeen completely dropped, and our
organization, our windinsurance.
They want to drop three of ourproperties for wind insurance
(24:45):
and their properties that didn'thave.
We didn't have a single windclaim during Hurricane Ian, but
yet our insurance and our riskmanagers are assessing, you know
, whether or not we're going tobe able to get wind insurance on
the buildings that we have.
Again, didn't have a wind claim, no impact to any of the roof
structures from almost acategory five storm with
(25:05):
sustained winds over 130 milesan hour, approaching 150 miles
an hour, no wind claim, but yetwe're being dropped, and so I
think the insurance companiesare going to have to take
another look.
But again, I just don't knowthat.
You know, many of the peoplethat are living along the coast
and subject to the next stormwill be able to get that
(25:26):
insurance that they need for thenext storm.
George Siegal (25:28):
Are people having trouble getting their claims
paid?
Because I think that recentlegislation by here in Florida
that took away the right to getattorney's fees if you have to
sue your insurance company.
My feeling is, what?
What incentive does theinsurance company have to pay
the little guy's claim, knowingthat if I fight you I may end up
(25:49):
with only half of it becauseI'm gonna have to pay my lawyer
to go get my money?
I mean, it just seems likewe're all getting screwed.
James Evans (25:58):
Yeah.
So unfortunately, thelegislature is not making things
easy for you know, for for thevoters, for the people that live
and work here in in Florida.
It's not only on, you know, thehurricane flames, but they've
done the same thing as itrelates to Land use issues.
We're dealing with the sameissue at South Seas Island
(26:18):
resort when, if we would havechallenged the you know the Lee
plan itself, we would have beensubject to the, the prevailing
attorneys fees, and and so whatthat means is that if they run
the run the bill up to a milliondollars, they could put
organizations like ours Under,and so we have to pick and
(26:38):
choose.
You know what battles we want to, you know we want to take on
when it comes to Challengingthose issues and let Florida
legislature right now is lookingat a bill that would make the
Environmental groups and andcitizen suits when it comes to
challenging environmentalperverts with the deep, the
Florida Department ofEnvironmental Protection, the
(26:59):
water management districts.
They would have to pay thoseprevailing party attorneys fees
as well.
So I think the legislature ismaking it very challenging for,
for you know, the voters, thepeople, the property owners, to
be able to recover from the nextstorm and be able to maintain
Equality of life and speak out.
It's really catering To theinsurance companies, the
(27:23):
developers and others To win.
George Siegal (27:27):
Yeah, and there is insurance fraud.
I know there are people thatruin it for the good people, but
I've heard too many stories ofElderly people or just people
whose house was damaged and theinsurance company just didn't
feel like paying them and thosepeople are so upside down
because of that and to not beable to go after them and make
(27:47):
them accountable it's justmind-boggling to me, and you
know I'm probably guilty forhelping a lot of those people
get elected or voting for them,but I'm scratching my head going
.
Who are they representing?
James Evans (28:00):
Yeah, I completely agree.
And the question is you know,why would you paint everyone
with the same brush?
Go after the.
The insurance companies shouldspend the resources they need to
go after those fraudulentclaims.
You know require thedocumentation.
Go after those fraudulentclaims.
You know I know many peoplehired, you know private
insurance adjusters and they'vebeen able to, you know, really,
(28:24):
you know, get a great return onthose on those claims.
But you know those folks thataren't doing going through that
process maybe Are beingunderpaid for their claims and
things like that.
So I would I think theinsurance companies really need
to focus on the fraud that'soccurring.
There's.
There's places outside of theimpacted area there that are
(28:45):
being paid out.
I know this happened afterHurricane Charlie as well, where
you know people were makingclaims well outside of the area
impacted by Hurricane Charlieand they were being paid.
So I think the insurancecompanies need to do their due
diligence and not paint everyonewith the same you know broad
brush and Adopt in the Florida.
Legislators should not beadopting legislation that harms,
(29:08):
you know, the.
You know the, the little personthat is trying to just build
back after a major storm likehurricane Ian.
Oh, absolutely, I mean.
George Siegal (29:14):
It's like what they're doing is just saying we
had a problem, you're cuttinginto our profits, so we're just
going to punish everybody andthat'll teach you, and Instead
they should have done a betterjob at doing their job.
They should have doneinspections before they insured
a property.
There's, there's, so manythings they could have done and
the legislature could have putit at a dendem in there.
So the average person who aninsurance company bullies and
(29:38):
they do it all the time has arecourse to fight back and it's
just disgusting that they don'thave that anymore.
We don't have that anymore.
James Evans (29:46):
We don't and it makes it very challenging.
And these, you know the ratescontinue to climb and you know
there's there's properties thatyou know inland that weren't
impacted at all and of coursethey have to share the risk.
You know they have to spreadthat risk across.
You know big geographic areas,but I know of folks that are
well inland, that are that are,you know, suggest that they're
being responsible.
They're not building along thecoast and yet their insurance
(30:08):
premiums continue to climb andthey live nowhere near the coast
and and you know they'rethey're concerned about that.
They should be.
If you're punished for making asmart choice, it's like what?
George Siegal (30:18):
do you?
Do you just throw up your armsand go?
What chance do I have with Withthese knuckleheads that are
running everything?
So if you had to give sometakeaway to the people that are
running everything, so if youhad to give some takeaway points
here you kind of touched on ita little while ago.
But what can I do as aFloridian to give myself, my
family, our best chance ofsurviving the next big storm?
James Evans (30:43):
Well, I think number one don't build your home
in an area that's vulnerable tothe next major storm and storm
surge event and you have to makea choice for your you know, for
you and your family, where youwant to live.
But do your homework.
Make sure that the home thatyou're purchasing is not a home
(31:04):
that was flooded during the laststorm event, that your home is
built above the female floodelevation and maybe do yourself
a favor and go a little higher.
Don't do the bare minimum,recognizing, with sea level rise
and climate change, that sealevels are going to continue to
climb and that you don't want tobe in a situation where you're
building right at that minimumlevel.
(31:26):
You know.
Go as high as you can.
Make sure that you you know,have a builder that's building
to the Florida building code andmaybe beyond.
Again, don't do the minimumnecessary.
Put on a few extra straps, Makesure that you're you know
you're tie downs or make youknow holding down your roof and
connecting the entire buildingenvelope.
You know, use spray foaminsulation.
(31:49):
That kind of ties the entirestructure together, which not
only will make the building morestructurally sound, but it will
also improve the energyefficiency of that building,
reducing your carbon footprint.
That could contribute or reduceyour carbon footprint and maybe
that could be contributing toclimate change.
So I think there are things thatpeople need to do Make sure
(32:12):
that you, you know evacuate whenthere's a storm event.
Don't wait around and thinkyou're going to hunker down and
weather the storm.
There are many people on FortMyers Beach and in Southwest
Florida that lost their livesbecause they thought they could
weather the storm and never,ever, anticipated a 12 foot
storm surge.
(32:33):
I really think that the modelthat Sanibel has you know, the
model that Sanibel is, followingthis idea that less is more,
preserving more of the land forconservation and reducing their,
their developed area andinfrastructure on the island,
and concentrating that to 30percent instead of, you know,
(32:53):
developing the entire islandreally took a lot of the
development out of harm's way.
Again, could you imagine whatSanibel would look like if 100
percent of the island wasdeveloped instead of 30 percent?
So, and then, last but notleast, development on barrier
islands should be minimized.
You know, we know that barrierislands are the first line of
(33:14):
defense when it comes to thesemajor storm events and storm
surge.
Trying to reduce our footprinton the barrier islands not not
trying to find ways to justifymore development, like we're
seeing at South Seas IslandResort.
We should be reducing ourfootprint on these barrier
islands, not finding ways tojustify more.
George Siegal (33:33):
Yeah, and you did briefly kind of mention one
thing that I think is also aproblem, and that's disclosure.
When you, when you're trying tobuy something and you want to
know the history, you didn'tactually say disclosure.
But in Florida you don't haveto tell them if your house is
flooded before.
So if I'm buying a property inFort Myers Beach or or or
Sanibel, I can probably assumeit's flooded now, but in a lot
(33:53):
of places around our state ahouse has been underwater before
or had water and they don'thave to tell the person buying
it.
That's just anotherheadscratcher.
James Evans (34:03):
So I'm glad you brought that up because it is a
headscratcher.
I'm hearing every day aboutproperties on Sanibel, even in
my own neighborhood, and I'llgive you an example in a minute
of properties that right afterthe storm, you know, contractors
went in there, homeowner wentin there and they gutted their
entire structure, they rebuiltit without permits and they put
(34:26):
it immediately back in themarket.
And the property in my ownneighborhood, my property right
behind my home, when, duringhurricane, you know, ian, you
know I have video of water beingsix inches from the gutter of a
ground level home behind myhome that building was closed
(34:47):
out.
You know FEMA paid out theflood, you know, you know, paid
out the flood claim and thatproperty was sold.
The property owner that boughtthe property came in there.
They gutted it no permits,gutted it, rebuilt that home and
they're living in there todayand I imagine it'll probably
change hands again and you know,I don't know that it will ever
(35:09):
be disclosed unless somebodydoes their due diligence and the
research necessary to ensurethat they know that that home
was flooded and there's a goodchance it will be flooded during
the next major storm event.
George Siegal (35:20):
And I think that's why we need to just have
it where that becomes ano-brainer, that everybody just
asks that question when they'rebuying a property.
That you demanded A houseshould have a car fax report.
You know that has its history.
And first, if you buy a housedown there and you don't ask
that question, I think you'recrazy.
Maybe you're looking for abargain, but you know if you're
(35:41):
buying a house that's notpermitted, if you're buying a
house that's flooded, ask amillion questions and hold them
accountable so you know whatyou're buying.
James Evans (35:50):
I completely agree, and you should ask for the
elevation certificate, know whatthe elevation is of the
property you're consideringbuying and then start to look at
the storm surge maps that havebeen provided by the US
Geological Survey, lee County.
You know all of the localgovernments have flood maps that
show you know where the stormsurge was and the areas that
(36:13):
were impacted and compare thatwith your elevation certificate.
And if your realtor whichunfortunately the realtors don't
always know because thehomeowners don't disclose that
and the realtors always don'tdive into whether or not that
home was flooded so I think youneed to go beyond the realtor
and do your own homework, doyour own due diligence, because
(36:34):
it's really on you.
George Siegal (36:36):
Yeah, it's almost like a lawyer not asking their
client if they really did it,because then you have a hard
time representing them.
So I can understand whyrealtors are motivated a certain
way, but somebody's got to bethe stand up person here and do
the right thing, and, in lieu ofnot believing that anybody else
is going to do it, you have todo it yourself.
James Evans (36:54):
I completely agree and I have a friend that is a
realtor and they actually askedthe question did this home flood
?
And the homeowner said no, theyhad an open house last weekend
and a neighboring realtor showedup to their open house and told
them this home was flooded andtold all of the folks that were
(37:17):
at that open house that the homewas flooded.
And, lo and behold, the homewas flooded and they asked that
question.
So you know you haveunscrupulous, you know
homeowners that want to turn,turn the property, that don't
want to, you know that don'twant to lose a sale or they
don't want to have the homediscounted because it was
flooded and they're really justpassing their headache on to the
(37:39):
next homeowner, which is, in myopinion, very unethical and
buyer beware.
George Siegal (37:45):
Absolutely Well.
On that happy note, thank youso much for coming on.
You have so much greatinformation and I wish you guys
the best down there.
I mean, like I say I want, I'mrooting for Sanibel because I
want to come back there andstart going there again every
year.
It's just such an amazing placeand I know you got a tough road
ahead.
James Evans (38:04):
Well, we're excited to have you back and it was
really a pleasure participatingin your podcast, and you do
great work.
I really appreciate the servicethat you provide to homeowners,
educating them on what theyshould be doing to protect
themselves and how we can makeour communities more resilient.
So again, thank you so much andexcited to see you when you're
in town and give me a call andthen we'll grab lunch.
George Siegal (38:27):
Absolutely Looking forward to it.
Thanks, james, great Thank you.
If you have a story, good orbad, about your home or the road
back from a disaster for yourcommunity, there's a contact
form in the show notes.
Fill it out and you could be aguest on an upcoming episode.
I've also included the link tothe film I'm working on called
Built to Last Buyer Beware.
I hope you'll check it out andfollow our progress.
(38:50):
This film is going to be a wakeup call for a lot of people as
to why we need to do everythingwe can to have the safest house
possible.
Thanks again for listening.
See you next time.
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