April 23, 2024 • 40 mins
April 23, 2024
132. Unlocking the Complexities of Property Insurance Claims with Ron Snouffer
Unlock the secrets of battling insurance companies and securing rightful claims with Ron Snouffer, an expert public adjuster, in this eye-opening episode. Host George Siegal delves into the murky waters of homeowner insurance with Ron, who shares his journey from insurance carrier insider to a staunch advocate for property owners. This episode sheds light on the deceptive tactics used by insurance companies and underscores the pivotal role of public adjusters. Tune in to empower yourself with the knowledge and strategies needed to navigate post-disaster insurance claims effectively and ensure your home and finances are protected.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
George Siegal (00:00):
After a disaster strikes.
If you feel like it's youagainst your homeowner's
insurance company, you probablyalso realize if you have to go
to battle with them.
It is not a fair fight.
They have deep pockets andhigh-priced lawyers.
You and I have no ability toput together the same team.
So what options do we have ifwe feel the insurance company
isn't honoring the deal wethought we were paying for?
(00:22):
Well, there is an option outthere for you to consider that
you might not have heard of.
My guest today is Ron Snoffer.
He's the owner of NationalClaims Negotiators, a public
adjusting firm that propertyowners can hire to get what they
should be paid after a disasterdamages your home.
I'm George Siegal, and this isHomeowners Be Aware, the podcast
(00:44):
that teaches you everything youneed to know about being a
homeowner.
Ron, thank you so much forjoining me today.
You're welcome.
Ron Snouffer (00:52):
I'm looking forward to doing this.
George Siegal (00:54):
Now, the insurance industry is a very
challenging industry.
Anybody that's ever filed aclaim, anybody that's ever been
involved with it, knows.
I live in Florida.
Just getting insurance is achallenge.
So you're laughing.
So tell me what you do and howyou play a role in the whole
insurance thing.
Ron Snouffer (01:12):
So I am a licensed public adjuster.
I am an advocate for propertyowners, the consumer.
I started out actually workingfor the carrier.
I was a cat adjuster and Iworked in hurricane claims and
disasters and so on and so forthand I switched sides when
insurance companies I realizedwere not paying claims properly
(01:34):
and switched to the other side,which there's not very many of
us actually in the country.
George Siegal (01:40):
So it's a good and your timing is interesting
for that that.
You had reached out to mebecause I'm making a documentary
film called built to last buyerbeware and what we're exposing
in the film is one of thebiggest things.
Is is when insurance companiesdon't pay people or they do what
you're saying they, they saythat that's not $50,000 worth of
damage, it's $10,000 worth ofdamage, and and and and from the
(02:04):
other side.
That's upending people's lives.
Ron Snouffer (02:06):
I mean, that's everything uh, I know several
people that are in your film Iwould imagine you would.
George Siegal (02:14):
I mean they all.
We had a great bunch of peopleon both sides.
There is another side to thisand we interviewed people you
probably know on the other sideas well.
Um, I just happen to think thatI'm concerned for the homeowner
, for the victim.
That's what I advocate forWhatever gives us the protection
that we deserve.
So why is this such a big issue?
(02:37):
Why does it have to be such abig deal?
Ron Snouffer (02:40):
So it comes down to the fact that insurance
companies are a for-profitindustry, and so I used to work
for Allstate and there's a bookout there called From Good Hands
to Boxing Gloves.
That's kind of when it allstarted, and it started in your
state of Florida.
So what happened was Allstatedecided they weren't going to
pay a claim and an attorney hadto sue them and was asking for
(03:03):
documentation and so on and soforth.
And an attorney had to sue themand was asking for
documentation, and so on and soforth.
Well, the documentation that hewas looking for was how this
all started, which was theMcKinsey files.
Allstate asked the McKinseygroup to come in and tell them
how to make more money.
And they said, well, why do youpay so much in claims?
And Allstate said, well, totake care of our customers and
(03:24):
so we don't get in trouble withthe state and we get to keep
selling insurance and so on andso forth, and we don't get sued.
They said, well, what's thatgoing to cost you?
And the next thing, you know,it costs them less money to get
sued than it does to pay claims.
So they switched their entiremantra on being a consumer
(03:44):
advocate to being okay, beingsued on a regular basis.
George Siegal (03:48):
Now most people don't know that when they enter
into the agreement and they gettheir insurance, you buy that
insurance policy and you go.
Hey, this is my protection here.
If my house happens to getblown away or burned down or
something bad happens, I'mcovered.
What can we be doing on thatside?
So I don't need you?
(04:09):
Is there a way to understandthat relationship better, going
in so it doesn't end the way itquite often does?
Ron Snouffer (04:19):
So they've made policies so complex and so
ridiculous that the averageperson can't read the
documentation and understandwhat they do or don't have
coverage for, even if they thinkthey have coverage for, like, I
talked to a customer thismorning that I can't help out,
they sent us over theirdocumentation and they have all
(04:40):
these exclusions in theirpolicies so that they really
don't have any coverage for thedamage that they had.
They thought they had a $25,000deductible.
In reality they had a 5%deductible and they had
non-recoverable depreciation orit was an ACV policy because the
roof's over 12 years old and sothey have no coverage.
(05:03):
By the time you add those twotogether, their roof is
self-insured and so they have nocoverage.
By the time you add those twotogether, their roof is
self-insured.
And they had no idea.
Their insurance company, theiragent, told them they had a the
premier package policy, so onand so forth.
George Siegal (05:15):
they're paying 177 000 a year for this policy
and it's worthless, worthless soisn't there some grounds to go
after the company that sold themthe policy if it's under false
pretenses?
Pretenses, or is it?
Well, you didn't read the fineprint?
Um, it's really on us, as thehomeowners, to truly understand
(05:36):
it.
So we need to find an agentthat we have confidence in, that
truly points out.
They don't just say this iswhat your policy covers.
Show me where this is, show mewhat the exclusions are, because
I know in Florida they'retaking away sinkhole coverage.
You have that wind versus waterbattle.
The roof issue is huge.
What kind of roof was on ahouse?
(05:57):
I mean, there's just so manythings.
It just seems like we don'thave a chance.
Ron Snouffer (06:02):
That's just it.
Like I said earlier, they are afor profit industry and the
more of a shell game they canplay with policyholders, the
better off they're going to be,you know, and having the right
agent is very important, becauseI'm not going to say all agents
(06:22):
, but a lot of agents aresalespeople.
They never read the policy,they have no idea what's in them
, so on and so forth.
I had a really good friend thatwas an agent I'm not going to.
He was with one of the bigthree, I'm not going to name
them, but he would come to meand tell me how awesome their
(06:43):
policy was, and then I'd have toshow him in the policy Well,
what about this, what about that, what about this?
And he would be like that's notwhat they sold us, that's not
what they told us they'reselling us.
And he would highlight thebenefits of the policy because
that's all they sold him, notany of the negatives.
And what we're seeing now isthese policies are coming in
(07:03):
with less and less coverage on aregular basis and consumers
have no idea they're notprotected?
George Siegal (07:10):
We don't, and that's so disappointing.
So the role of a privateadjuster when you come in, do
you have to be requested?
You have to be requested by thehomeowner, but doesn't the
insurance company have theoption of believing you or not
believing you?
Or is that then just the nextstep to give them a leg up in
litigation?
Ron Snouffer (07:26):
So we're hired directly by the property owner,
yes, and we're going to documenteverything that's supposed to
be covered, based on the policycoverage that they do have.
But, like with anything, if theinsurance company decides to
clamp down and not pay foranything or not do the right
thing, they have thatopportunity.
But when you have a good publicadjuster that knows what
(07:48):
they're doing, the chances ofthat having to go to litigation
are a lot slimmer, becausethey'd rather deal with us than
attorney, because the good onesknow how to document a file so
that it will be seen in trial.
And that's the important thingis we set every case up, no
matter if we think it's going tobe in front of a jury or not,
(08:09):
so that it would if it had to bepresented in front of a jury,
and they'd rather deal with usthan an attorney.
George Siegal (08:18):
Now it's.
It's almost impossible to gettrue statistics out of like the
financial office of insurancehere in Florida.
I've written them numeroustimes for our film and I never
hear back from them when youguys get involved.
Are there any kind ofstatistics of success versus
beating your head against a wall, or is it hard to track that?
I think it's hard to track that, but I think NAPIA.
Ron Snouffer (08:40):
You know, I think it's hard to track that, but I
think NAPIA, the NationalAssociation for Public Insurance
Adjusters, and FAPIA have somestats on that.
I don't want to quote somethingthat I don't know.
George Siegal (08:53):
Sure but.
Ron Snouffer (08:54):
I mean in our history on claims that we've
been involved in.
We've settled almost $200million in settlements.
We've settled almost $200million in settlements, so
obviously we've gotten a lotmore money than what the
insurance companies initiallyoffered.
George Siegal (09:11):
And when you come out and go over a house that
has damage and you saw thatmaybe the insurance company said
, yeah, you have $10,000 worthof damage, and then you start
going over everything and thenit's 10, then it's 20, then it's
30.
Then you need a new roof, thenyou need to jack up the
foundation.
I mean just so things just keeppiling up.
Do you lay it out in a way thatthe insurance company sees okay
, we missed this, we didn't seethat.
(09:33):
How do they justify being so?
Ron Snouffer (09:35):
off?
That's a great question.
So I'm going to reference youback to 2008, when I was still
an IA and working for thecarrier cat claims.
We used to get paid 25 centsfor every picture we took.
So we were incentivized to takepictures of all the damage out
(09:58):
there on the property that wecould not just to take random
pictures of anything, but actualpictures of damage.
Now they put a cap on it rightwhen I left that you can only
take 10 pictures.
(10:18):
Well, my file on a regularresidential roof is going to be
150, 200 pictures of all thedamage that we find out there
and so that we can show thestory of what really happened in
that claim.
And then we're going todocument it using an estimate
and a proprietary software.
I'm sure you've heard ofXactimate before.
We use the software, xactimate,to write up our estimate and
(10:44):
then we're going to use codes,depending on what city it's in,
and bring those codes in andmanufacture builder's
instructions and build a file sothat it should be very easy for
the insurance company to lookat and go.
Yeah, we missed this.
Either send a senior adjusterback out there or just pay the
claim.
George Siegal (10:56):
Now, if I go to my insurance company and they're
difficult should I becontacting a private adjuster
before I contact an attorney?
Ron Snouffer (11:06):
Yes.
So most of the time if you hirean attorney they're going to
hire a public adjuster.
They have to have somebodywho's going to go out there and
do all the details and the costestimating for the damage
associated with the claim andreview all the policy and so on
and so forth.
So we're also the first stepbecause generally we're going to
(11:29):
get a claim settled in a couplemonths, two or three months.
Where you know, unfortunately,the legal system, you send out a
60 day demand and then theyreject that and then you're
looking at waiting however longit's going to be, depending on
the court dockets for when youget in front of the court and
depositions and so on and soforth.
(11:49):
So typically you could belooking at a year, year and a
half, two years on a court caseor we might've been able to
settle it in 60 days.
George Siegal (11:58):
How much do you guys take?
What percentage do you get ofthe claim percentage do you get
of the claim.
Ron Snouffer (12:02):
So that varies state to state.
Here in Texas we charge 10%.
Is the maximum that we cancharge.
In Florida they can charge 10%,I believe, during a storm event
and then one year after a stormevent I think it's 20%.
George Siegal (12:24):
I'm licensed there in Florida but we don't
actively participate in FloridaToo many insurance carriers are
going bankrupt and the propertyowners can't be made whole.
Yeah, we see that far too often.
And then the thing they didrecently with this rule out of
the legislature where you can nolonger get attorney's fees if
(12:44):
you have to sue your insurancecompany.
So even if I go to you let'ssay I have a $50,000 claim will
I have enough money left to fixmy house if I have to pay
anybody?
So the insurance company isalready putting me, even if I go
to you, and 10% is less thanwhat an attorney probably would
take.
I think it could be as much aswhat third of what you um, what
you collect, am.
Ron Snouffer (13:06):
I going to have enough money to fix my house.
But yeah but here's the thingright now you have zero or 20%.
Is 90% better than zero or 20%?
I understand there there's afee associated with it, but you
can do all the same things thatwe can do as a property owner.
But most property owners don'tunderstand those rules.
(13:27):
They don't know how to documentthe damage and put it into a
package that, if it does have tobe seen by a jury, they're
going to win.
I mean, there is some expertiseto what we do.
George Siegal (13:44):
Oh, there's no question.
And if I want to be proactiveon my end, isn't it a good idea
for me to at least have a veryaccurate record, before the
damage, of what I actually had?
So you have a better chance ofcoming in and then stepping into
the situation?
If I have pictures of thepaintings and the TVs and the
washers and dryers and all thatstuff, does that help if I have
(14:07):
my stuff ready before you comein?
Ron Snouffer (14:10):
So it makes my job so much easier.
There's stuff where you can beproactive and the majority of
the people that are proactiveand have that documentation in
place, those claims are settledmuch faster, much easier than
the people who are reactive anddon't have a clue where anything
is.
They don't know where theirreceipts are now all burned up.
(14:32):
They don't know where thedocumentation is on the
materials that they use to buildthe house or what their
furniture costs for the flood orthe fire or whatever the case
may be.
You have to be proactive inorder to help yourself in a
claim.
George Siegal (14:52):
To what level and how can you gather some of that
stuff?
If I was to walk around myhouse, I might know what my
computer costs Well, just takingpictures.
But if I have a picture of myTV, is that enough for the
insurance company or do I haveto have an actual receipt?
The same for the washer anddryer, the sofa?
I mean, how deep of a record doI need to have?
Ron Snouffer (15:12):
So you don't necessarily have to have
receipts for all that stuff, butif you have pictures of
everything, that's a lot harderto dispute.
You know, I was talking to agentleman the other day that he
got hit by a tornado and theinsurance company was asking for
pictures or receipts for allhis tools that got spread across
the county because the shopthat was next door to his house
(15:34):
did get leveled and threw toolsmiles and miles away from his
house.
It's like I've been a carpenterfor 20 something years.
I've bought that stuff over mylifetime.
I don't have two pictures orreceipts for all of it, but he
had a ton of pictures, so that'seasier to overcome then.
George Siegal (15:56):
And the best time to do that is on a sunny day,
when there's no stress andyou're not running around going.
What do I do?
What do I do?
Everybody could take an hour ortwo and just go around and
photograph the heck out of theirhouse and put that in the cloud
, so it's never lost it's easy.
(16:18):
Yeah, you would think that wouldbe.
Now, when you look at the kindof things that go on in Florida,
texas is kind of like the WildWest, though.
Builders get away with allkinds of stuff in Texas and they
make it very clear you can'tsue them, you can only go to
arbitration.
So you're kind of up against it.
You get a crappy builder andthen you have to go to your
insurance.
I mean, does that make your jobmore difficult, difficult, or
(16:39):
does it just give you morebusiness because there's more
damage every time there's astorm?
Ron Snouffer (16:43):
so we we're in the hail capital of the country,
right here in uh, dfw.
So every seven to ten years Iwould say somebody's going to
get a new roof and probablygoing to get siding and new
windows, but I mean the, thequality of workmanship.
I wouldn't say um makes itworse, uh, as far as the amount
(17:09):
of claims or anything like that,because I mean last week we had
three inch size hail sweepacross the metroplex and, uh, we
had three of those storms lastyear.
I mean, when tennis ball sizehit, tennis ball size hail hits
anything, it's going to damageit yeah, I used to live in san
(17:29):
antonio, texas, and they're alittle more weather immune than
last week too sure, but dallasis right on that boundary where
you can get snow, you can gethail, you can get more likely to
have tornadoes.
George Siegal (17:42):
I mean it's pretty scary.
There's a lot of stuff to keepyou busy.
Ron Snouffer (17:45):
That's why I live here.
George Siegal (17:48):
But it is a beautiful area.
Ron Snouffer (17:50):
It is.
George Siegal (17:51):
The trade-off.
Ron Snouffer (17:52):
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff to do here in Texas
.
I mean, everybody apparentlywants to come here.
I just saw this morning thatwe're up to 8.1 million people
in the Metroplex.
I want to say when I moved here25 years ago, we had less than
3 million.
George Siegal (18:07):
And that's just today from coming across the
southern border.
No, just kidding, but you know.
So I think, when you look atwhen you, when the when built to
last, buyer beware comes out, Ithink what people are going to
see is and I don't want to justthrow builders completely under
the bus, because there arebuilders that do a great job, oh
yeah, but there's a lot ofstuff that's built that is not
(18:29):
built to last and you wonderwhat the thought process is.
And then when you add thattogether with insurance, that
doesn't pay.
So now I have a crummy housethat was poorly built, that I
overpaid for and I don't haveinsurance, so it just almost
makes it not worth owningproperty.
Ron Snouffer (18:46):
So I've actually had my real estate license for
since 2001,.
So almost 25 years, and I cantell you, like what you're
saying, there has been a lot ofbuilders come and go over the
years that are doing the bareminimum requirements here in
Texas in order to get by withbuilding something.
(19:07):
But it also goes back toaffordability too.
You know, if you're going toput in the house that's going to
last a lifetime, it's going tobe a lot more expensive than the
average consumer can afford.
George Siegal (19:23):
Well then I say, slap a disclaimer on it and say
that this is a disposable house,that this is seriously, this is
temporary housing.
Don't don't tell me that it'sbuilt to code so it's going to
last.
I now know, if you build tocode in Tampa, florida, it's not
going to withstand a categoryfour or five hurricane.
The same thing goes wherethey're rebuilding Mexico Beach.
(19:43):
They're not rebuilding towithstand the disaster that
wiped them out, and I just thinkthat's insane.
Ron Snouffer (19:50):
Now we got had a couple of clients that were on
Sanibel Island.
We didn't go out there to, wereferred them to somebody else
there in Florida.
But I mean it was prettydevastating.
One of them had just retired toFlorida and life savings into
their house and it was gonewithin six months of them moving
there.
George Siegal (20:09):
Yeah, Sanibel Island was probably one of the
most beautiful places you wouldever see, and it just does not
look the same now.
I mean, it's just there's alayer of this brine stuff on
everything.
The mosquitoes were everywhereand I know they're going to
eventually come back, but it'sgoing to take a long time.
So somebody that wedgesthemselves in there in a
retirement situation they havenothing to fall back on.
Ron Snouffer (20:32):
Oh, they already sold their house and moved.
So they were devastated.
So they moved up into Georgiaia.
They couldn't handle the theweather in florida well, I got
news for them.
George Siegal (20:44):
They get bad storms in georgia too, and and
what we're seeing is you go,okay, I, I don't want to own a
home, I'm just going to be arenter.
Most of florida is now buildingwood apartment complexes.
What?
They're wood.
If you, if you go to right,right like a mile from my house,
there's a bar right on thewater called the salt shack.
(21:04):
Right next to them, four hugebuildings, all wood, directly on
the bay where the storm surgewould be most likely to come in
from, so it's not elevated.
There's a parking garage andthen it's four stories of wood.
And then throughout PascoCounty, throughout Fort Myers,
in fact, people are.
I did a post on Reddit andpeople were saying almost every
(21:26):
city they've been in in Floridahas wood apartment complexes.
Your reaction pretty much saidwhat you think about that.
Ron Snouffer (21:39):
I just thought Florida's building code was so
much further ahead than whatTexas was.
I mean Miami-Dade has some ofthe most hardest building codes
in the country.
George Siegal (21:53):
I figured most of Florida would be in the same
region as that.
You would think they wouldadopt it seeing how effective
it's been in South Florida.
But they don't.
And Mexico Beach the house wefeatured in my last film, the
last house standing that wasbuilt with a concrete block and
it had the port in place wallsand the whole house was concrete
(22:14):
and it withstood a Category 5hurricane.
The houses that are going upnext to it are wood houses that
are now elevated.
They're not following theconcrete forms pattern because
they want to save money.
So all those houses we had.
Experts say that that place isa time bomb.
Oh yeah.
Ron Snouffer (22:35):
I mean, florida is good for a hurricane every few
years and they're gettingstronger and stronger every year
.
It seems like I mean, I don'tknow what's going to happen with
these wood frame buildings.
George Siegal (22:48):
I don't either.
And we interviewed onegentleman who is a floodplain
manager and he was at a citycouncil meeting in Mexico Beach
and he was talking about howthere were residents that were
wiped out by Michael but werearguing for them not to raise
the standard to rebuild, thatthey wanted to have a lower code
.
So a year or two after theystrengthened the building code
(23:09):
they dropped it back down againand lowered the elevation
required for building.
I hope nothing bad happensthere, but it sure has a weird
feeling to it yeah like I saidit's crazy.
I thought most of florida wasunder the building code for
miami-dade no, and I guaranteeyou, most people moving into an
(23:31):
apartment complex don't don'tknow that there's, there's, no,
there's nothing stamped on theside of the wall of the building
.
Going, you're taking a riskliving here and make sure you
don't stay in the event of astorm and probably one of the
good things that's exciting tosee.
We interviewed the CEO of theTampa Housing Authority, which
helps lower income housing folks, and they build only concrete
(23:53):
structures.
So when they build an apartmentcomplex, it's all out of block.
That's good.
Ron Snouffer (23:57):
So when they build an apartment complex.
George Siegal (23:58):
It's all out of block, and their philosophy is
why are we going to take peoplethat are struggling and put them
in a house that's going to getwiped out?
Let's put them in somethingthat's going to survive, and I'm
wondering why people with meansaren't thinking the same way.
Ron Snouffer (24:13):
Well, I have no idea on that answer.
George Siegal (24:22):
I mean, you brought up a really good
question that I have no idea.
Yeah, it's a head scratcher.
I'm sure it keeps you guys inbusiness, but I'm sure you'd
rather not have business likethat.
It's got to be pretty difficultwhen you're called in and you
have to go out there.
Describe what that's likeemotionally when you're seeing
people stuff all over the place.
Ron Snouffer (24:37):
I mean it's quite devastating.
One of the last claims that Ihandled was Hurricane Ike and
the property owner in questionhad a hundred foot tall pine
tree fall and split his house inhalf.
He had a two-story house.
His daughters were upstairs,him and his wife were downstairs
(24:58):
and it wiped out the staircaseto get from his daughters down
to him.
And I mean two young kids under, I want to say like 12 years
old at the time and they had nomeans of getting down to their
parents and the I've heard badstories about those pine trees
(25:19):
that they don't fall like theoaks do, with maybe a little
magistrate to them.
George Siegal (25:23):
They come down like tomahawks when they drop.
I mean that could be deadly.
That's not, that's, that'sserious stuff.
Ron Snouffer (25:29):
They were lucky to be alive if that the bedrooms
weren't on the the outside ofthe house.
George Siegal (25:36):
If one of them was in the middle, somebody
would have died yeah that that'shorrible to hear stuff like
that and when, at the time whenyou get out, there are people
looking at you as a lifeline,it's like, wow, I really need
you to come through on thisVersus maybe the first guy that
comes out from the insurancecompany that disappointed them.
(25:57):
They really need you to comethrough with an accurate look at
what they're entitled to.
Ron Snouffer (26:03):
Yeah, so I can kind of tell you from both ends
of that same hurricane.
I remember one of the lastclaims I was on.
I was the seventh adjuster thathad gone out to help the
customer out.
The first six had just gone andtaken a picture of the front of
the house and said no damagewhatsoever.
Same situation house on thefront of the house looked fine,
(26:23):
there was no issues with itwhatsoever.
But I went and knocked on thedoor and I was like yeah, I'm
here to take a look at yourhouse.
You're in dispute, you haveseveral hundred thousand dollars
in damage and it's been belowdeductible six times in a row.
What seems to be the problem?
They opened the door up andthere is no back of the house.
A pine tree had fallen andtaken out the back of the house.
(26:44):
So the front of the house fromthe street looked fine but there
was no back of the house andthey still had the pine tree
sitting in the back through allthe bedrooms, all the bathrooms,
a living room there upstairswas gone in the back of the
house.
But but you couldn't tell fromthe from the front street view
(27:05):
that there was damage to it.
And I mean I was.
I was embarrassed.
George Siegal (27:12):
Yeah, I mean that's.
That's unbelievable.
You know, it's like I had a guycome out to give me an estimate
on on a roof repair and hedidn't even go up on the roof
and barked out a number.
How could people, how could sixpeople have not done more than
that?
Are they under instructions tojust half-ass it and come away
with as little as possible tothe victims, or are they just
(27:33):
lazy?
Are we getting bad people inthose jobs so?
Ron Snouffer (27:38):
you know I can't speak to that as far as how
they're hiring people, but I cansay that when I was in the
business the average age wasabout 53.
And now I think it's about 28.
So all the senior people thatwere in the business 20 years
ago, or not even 20 years ago,15 years ago are now out of the
business.
They're retired and they'refinding people who have less
(28:00):
experience at this point in time.
George Siegal (28:04):
Now I've seen videos where there are stories
where people say the switchingof adjusters.
They have an adjuster thattells them everything's set.
They think they're gettingclose to the point where they're
going to get some action fromthe insurance company and then
they switch adjusters.
Is that a deliberate delaytactic by the insurance company
to say, hey, we going to outlastthese guys.
If we, if we can drag this outsix months a year, two years,
(28:26):
they're going to have to go awayand we'll save a lot more money
than if we have to pay theclaim you know, we've seen those
tactics.
Ron Snouffer (28:33):
We can't verify 100 that that's accurate.
They reassign people on aregular basis and they'll have
claims that are just still openand they'll get assigned to
somebody else.
I have one right now.
That's exactly that situation.
We're on our fourth adjuster.
We had a snow load collapse, apartial building in Minnesota,
(28:55):
and we're on the fourth adjuster.
We got involved in Februarythis year.
It's been going on sinceDecember of 22, I believe.
So a year and three monthsbefore we got involved, and he's
on his fourth adjuster.
Once we got involved, theyswitched it to another adjuster.
George Siegal (29:16):
Wow, and I learned from an attorney that I
had on a podcast, david Murray,that when you're talking to
somebody at the insurancecompany and you think they're
taking really good notes abouteverything you're saying, if you
end up going to court theydon't have to share those notes
with your side, they don't evenhave to say they have them.
That's for their record.
(29:36):
So anybody involved in any kindof claim the homeowner needs to
have as good a records aspossible, because you can't rely
on your insurance company doingthat.
Ron Snouffer (29:48):
That's exactly right.
That's why it's so importantthat when you think there's any
issue with your insurance claimwhatsoever, you need to get help
and public adjusters are thereto help and be on the consumer
side.
I mean Public adjusters arethere to help and be on the
consumer side.
I mean there's things that theydo on a regular basis that they
will claim is work product, waybefore you ever have to get
(30:11):
into a lawsuit with them or juryverdict like an underwriter's
report.
We had a claim in 2019.
It ended up being the largestjury verdict in the state of
Texas in 21.
And in 2000, I think it was 19,.
The underwriter report they hadbought the building in November.
(30:34):
The underwriter report said theroof was in excellent condition
.
They had three differentinspectors go out and take a
look at the building.
The third one said this is theCadillac of all roofs, it's in
excellent condition.
And then in trial they wantedto say that it was all wear and
tear, old, crappy conditionbecause they bought the building
(30:54):
in November and in March theygot hit with softball-sized hail
destroyed the roof.
So they went from getting fourmonths of premium to having to
pay $2 million for a roof.
They didn't want to pay it.
George Siegal (31:08):
It doesn't surprise me that that kind of
stuff goes on.
You know, I would think thatit's like the bully on the
schoolyard.
It's like they'll get away withwhatever they can.
How do we fight back?
How do we make this a levelplaying field so, when the
(31:29):
disaster does happen, we're notvictimized twice?
Ron Snouffer (31:34):
I think by you educating the public.
That's one of the biggestproblems that we have on our
side of the industry.
As public adjusters and firstparty attorneys, we all have the
same issue it's getting theword out.
I think you also interviewedDoug Quinn with APA.
I mean before his nonprofit wasaround, there was nobody
(31:56):
advocating outside of the publicadjusters and first party claim
people for consumers and westill aren't widely known.
I mean most people don't knowthat they have an option.
If the insurance company deniesor underpays, then they just
think they got to take it andsuck it up and pull the money
out of their 401k and do therepairs themselves.
George Siegal (32:19):
I had no idea and I was making a filmoug, pointed
me towards people.
We ended up interviewing dicktutweiler, who.
This guy was just amazing inthe film, the, the things that
he pointed out, and and.
And I'm one of those peoplethat I think should have known
better.
I constantly get slapped in theface by the amount of things I
don't know.
That's why I don't try to claimto be an expert.
(32:40):
I'm just passionate aboutwanting to help people.
But people need to know aboutthis stuff.
You need to know that.
Hey, there's somebody I cancall that can come out here and
kind of level the playing fielda little bit.
So at least I have an idea whatI'm working with and not just
taking some adjuster that'sphoning it in.
Ron Snouffer (32:59):
I agree a hundred percent, but, like I said,
education is a key part of thereason I wanted to start doing
some of these podcasts iseducation is a big issue for us
and the only thing we can do istry and get out the word to as
many people as we can.
George Siegal (33:14):
So what's the best way that that people can
get in touch with you and, uh,how, how, how should they?
Should?
They have you in their Rolodexso if an accident happens, they
know I'm calling Ron.
Ron Snouffer (33:26):
Well, the easiest way to get in touch with me is
probably through our website,wwwnationalclaimsnegotiatorscom.
We have a free claim review onthere.
We get claims from all over thecountry and advise people for
free on the front end.
If they want to hire us, thenthere's, of course, a fee for
(33:47):
that, depending on what thestate is, and I mean we want to
be an advocate first and try andserve people and make sure they
understand what they're dealingwith when it comes to their
policy and what their claimreally should be at.
George Siegal (34:02):
Yeah, I mean I thought you made an excellent
point early in the interviewwhen you said well, you're
getting nothing.
10% isn't really that bad ifyou get paid.
The problem is when thesepeople don't understand I think
the homeowner doesn't we don'tpresent to them enough what the
cost of doing nothing is.
And then when you startinterviewing people that five,
(34:23):
six, seven years you hear aboutDoug Quinn not getting back in
his house for seven years.
He said the cost of doingsomething up front to avoid that
is so much less than the costof having to do it after the
fact that you can't even comparethem.
Ron Snouffer (34:38):
Yeah, it's.
I think I read a statisticsomewhere.
If you defer the maintenanceuntil it collapses or completely
breaks down and when I say themaintenance, if you have damage
from a hurricane, a tornado,hail damage, fire, whatever If
you defer that maintenance untilit fails completely, you spend
(35:00):
10 times as much for the samedamage.
George Siegal (35:05):
And that's not even calculating what your time
and your inconvenience and thethings you can't do because
you're now living in this hellthat's been created by something
beyond your control, I meanthat seems to be really bad.
I mean the kind of things Dougwent through, if you know, his
story is just horrible.
Ron Snouffer (35:24):
Yeah, I'm familiar with his story, but that's a
regular occurrence here in Texas.
What we see a lot of here inTexas because we have so much
hail is property owners will gethit by hail and the insurance
company will come out and payfor 184 shingles or $3,000 worth
of damage below deductible andthen four years later they get
(35:45):
hit again $3,000 or $4,000 worthof damage and then three or
four years later they get hit athird time and now it's $10,000
worth of damage.
But you never made the repairsbecause you didn't understand.
Just because it was below yourdeductible, you were responsible
to make those repairs.
Because you didn't understand,just because it was below your
deductible, you were responsibleto make those repairs.
George Siegal (36:09):
And so now they deduct $8,000, $10,000 off your
$10,000 repair that you shouldbe getting in full.
Now, yeah, and I think peopledon't understand.
They don't calculate thatthere's a science behind what
that deductible is.
So if you have a 2% deductible,they know that most claims
probably do not go over that, sothey're going to have to pay
money.
But that doesn't mean thedamage isn't there, like you say
.
So you can't just push thatstuff off.
Ron Snouffer (36:31):
Well, the other part of it is we're seeing like
policies that are completelyawful at this point in time.
We had a previous client whobought her house in, I think,
2017.
Right after she bought it, shehad a hail claim and she bought
it for $600,000.
So she had a 1% deductible.
She got the roof fixed and thenjust last year last summer, in
(36:55):
2023, so the roof was less than10 years old, but it was now an
ACB policy and she had a one anda half percent deductible.
And even though her house thatshe bought in 2016 was $600,000,
now it was over a million bucksbecause inflation in Texas
(37:16):
housing prices went through theroof, and so she had a $15,000
deductible along with an ACVpolicy on a $40,000 roof, and so
she got $20,000 in ACV money,minus $15,000 for her deductible
, and she had $5,000 to replacea $40,000 roof.
George Siegal (37:37):
What happens is, a lot of times they don't end up
replacing it, do they?
Ron Snouffer (37:40):
She hasn't.
She's not going to, she's goingto wait.
Hopefully get new insurance iswhat she thinks.
The problem is that claim isthere.
The insurance company has adatabase called Clue, which they
manage all the documentationfor every claim that's filed on
a property.
All the insurance companiesshare that database, so even
(38:02):
when she switches it's stillthere.
George Siegal (38:04):
Yeah, that follows you around on your
permanent record that's not agood thing.
All right.
So if you had to leave us withone kernel of wisdom that's
going to save homeowners angstand headaches, what would you
tell us?
Ron Snouffer (38:18):
I would tell you that plans fail for lack of
advisors, but with many advisorsthey succeed.
That's Proverbs 27, 17.
And it's important to askquestions when it comes to your
insurance plan.
There is no bad question.
Most people haven't beenthrough this before and if they
(38:39):
have, the rules have changed,the game has changed.
George Siegal (38:42):
they need to ask somebody yeah, I agree you, I
I'll ask questions till you lookat me and say, look, our time
is up, um and then.
And don't just ask thequestions, write the answers
down, because a lot of timesyou're talking to a uh, an
expert at something and you'relistening to them and you're
trying to take it all in, andthen 10 minutes later you're on
to them and you're trying totake it all in and then 10
minutes later you're ontosomething else, even if they'll
(39:03):
let you record it, just so youhave that information, because
that's gold.
Ron Snouffer (39:08):
Most adjusters are never going to let you record
them or film them or anythinglike that.
Really, they know the statuteon that.
They know that a recording isgoing to be used in court
against them at some point intime.
They never want that to happen.
George Siegal (39:22):
So then take good notes.
Ron Snouffer (39:24):
Take good notes.
George Siegal (39:26):
All right, Well, listen, Ron.
All your contact informationwill be in the show notes.
I know we went back and forthand had some challenges trying
to get together today, but Ireally appreciate your time.
Thank you for sharing theinformation.
Ron Snouffer (39:37):
Thank you and I'm really looking forward to
watching your video.
I didn't even know that was you.
That's really cool that that'syou.
George Siegal (39:43):
That is me and I'm excited about the film and I
think I hope it opens a lot ofeyes and helps a lot of people.
Ron Snouffer (39:51):
When is release date on that?
George Siegal (39:53):
You know we say this summer.
You know, but you got to haveall the pieces fall together.
Everything has to work out, butwe're making great progress.
You know, the trailer is up nowand we're trying to get a
celebrity to be the voice of thefilm and I'm excited about it.
I think it's going to be agreat film.
Ron Snouffer (40:13):
I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah, I'll be watching for itcoming out.
Yeah.
George Siegal (40:18):
Excellent Thanks, Ron.
Ron Snouffer (40:19):
Thank you, man.
George Siegal (40:21):
If you have a homeowner story good or bad I
really want to hear from you.
Be a guest on this podcast andshare your story so other people
don't end up making the samemistakes.
It's an uphill battle being ahomeowner, so let's join
together and help each other out.
It might be our best and onlychance of having a good outcome.
Thanks for taking the time tolisten today.
(40:41):
I'll see you next time.
After a disaster strikes.
If you feel like it's youagainst your homeowner's
insurance company, you probablyalso realize if you have to go
to battle with them.
It is not a fair fight.
They have deep pockets andhigh-priced lawyers.
You and I have no ability toput together the same team.
So what options do we have ifwe feel the insurance company
isn't honoring the deal wethought we were paying for?
(00:22):
Well, there is an option outthere for you to consider that
you might not have heard of.
My guest today is Ron Snoffer.
He's the owner of NationalClaims Negotiators, a public
adjusting firm that propertyowners can hire to get what they
should be paid after a disasterdamages your home.
I'm George Siegal, and this isHomeowners Be Aware, the podcast
(00:44):
that teaches you everything youneed to know about being a
homeowner.
Ron, thank you so much forjoining me today.
You're welcome.
Ron Snouffer (00:52):
I'm looking forward to doing this.
George Siegal (00:54):
Now, the insurance industry is a very
challenging industry.
Anybody that's ever filed aclaim, anybody that's ever been
involved with it, knows.
I live in Florida.
Just getting insurance is achallenge.
So you're laughing.
So tell me what you do and howyou play a role in the whole
insurance thing.
Ron Snouffer (01:12):
So I am a licensed public adjuster.
I am an advocate for propertyowners, the consumer.
I started out actually workingfor the carrier.
I was a cat adjuster and Iworked in hurricane claims and
disasters and so on and so forthand I switched sides when
insurance companies I realizedwere not paying claims properly
(01:34):
and switched to the other side,which there's not very many of
us actually in the country.
George Siegal (01:40):
So it's a good and your timing is interesting
for that that.
You had reached out to mebecause I'm making a documentary
film called built to last buyerbeware and what we're exposing
in the film is one of thebiggest things.
Is is when insurance companiesdon't pay people or they do what
you're saying they, they saythat that's not $50,000 worth of
damage, it's $10,000 worth ofdamage, and and and and from the
(02:04):
other side.
That's upending people's lives.
Ron Snouffer (02:06):
I mean, that's everything uh, I know several
people that are in your film Iwould imagine you would.
George Siegal (02:14):
I mean they all.
We had a great bunch of peopleon both sides.
There is another side to thisand we interviewed people you
probably know on the other sideas well.
Um, I just happen to think thatI'm concerned for the homeowner
, for the victim.
That's what I advocate forWhatever gives us the protection
that we deserve.
So why is this such a big issue?
(02:37):
Why does it have to be such abig deal?
Ron Snouffer (02:40):
So it comes down to the fact that insurance
companies are a for-profitindustry, and so I used to work
for Allstate and there's a bookout there called From Good Hands
to Boxing Gloves.
That's kind of when it allstarted, and it started in your
state of Florida.
So what happened was Allstatedecided they weren't going to
pay a claim and an attorney hadto sue them and was asking for
(03:03):
documentation and so on and soforth.
And an attorney had to sue themand was asking for
documentation, and so on and soforth.
Well, the documentation that hewas looking for was how this
all started, which was theMcKinsey files.
Allstate asked the McKinseygroup to come in and tell them
how to make more money.
And they said, well, why do youpay so much in claims?
And Allstate said, well, totake care of our customers and
(03:24):
so we don't get in trouble withthe state and we get to keep
selling insurance and so on andso forth, and we don't get sued.
They said, well, what's thatgoing to cost you?
And the next thing, you know,it costs them less money to get
sued than it does to pay claims.
So they switched their entiremantra on being a consumer
(03:44):
advocate to being okay, beingsued on a regular basis.
George Siegal (03:48):
Now most people don't know that when they enter
into the agreement and they gettheir insurance, you buy that
insurance policy and you go.
Hey, this is my protection here.
If my house happens to getblown away or burned down or
something bad happens, I'mcovered.
What can we be doing on thatside?
So I don't need you?
(04:09):
Is there a way to understandthat relationship better, going
in so it doesn't end the way itquite often does?
Ron Snouffer (04:19):
So they've made policies so complex and so
ridiculous that the averageperson can't read the
documentation and understandwhat they do or don't have
coverage for, even if they thinkthey have coverage for, like, I
talked to a customer thismorning that I can't help out,
they sent us over theirdocumentation and they have all
(04:40):
these exclusions in theirpolicies so that they really
don't have any coverage for thedamage that they had.
They thought they had a $25,000deductible.
In reality they had a 5%deductible and they had
non-recoverable depreciation orit was an ACV policy because the
roof's over 12 years old and sothey have no coverage.
(05:03):
By the time you add those twotogether, their roof is
self-insured and so they have nocoverage.
By the time you add those twotogether, their roof is
self-insured.
And they had no idea.
Their insurance company, theiragent, told them they had a the
premier package policy, so onand so forth.
George Siegal (05:15):
they're paying 177 000 a year for this policy
and it's worthless, worthless soisn't there some grounds to go
after the company that sold themthe policy if it's under false
pretenses?
Pretenses, or is it?
Well, you didn't read the fineprint?
Um, it's really on us, as thehomeowners, to truly understand
(05:36):
it.
So we need to find an agentthat we have confidence in, that
truly points out.
They don't just say this iswhat your policy covers.
Show me where this is, show mewhat the exclusions are, because
I know in Florida they'retaking away sinkhole coverage.
You have that wind versus waterbattle.
The roof issue is huge.
What kind of roof was on ahouse?
(05:57):
I mean, there's just so manythings.
It just seems like we don'thave a chance.
Ron Snouffer (06:02):
That's just it.
Like I said earlier, they are afor profit industry and the
more of a shell game they canplay with policyholders, the
better off they're going to be,you know, and having the right
agent is very important, becauseI'm not going to say all agents
(06:22):
, but a lot of agents aresalespeople.
They never read the policy,they have no idea what's in them
, so on and so forth.
I had a really good friend thatwas an agent I'm not going to.
He was with one of the bigthree, I'm not going to name
them, but he would come to meand tell me how awesome their
(06:43):
policy was, and then I'd have toshow him in the policy Well,
what about this, what about that, what about this?
And he would be like that's notwhat they sold us, that's not
what they told us they'reselling us.
And he would highlight thebenefits of the policy because
that's all they sold him, notany of the negatives.
And what we're seeing now isthese policies are coming in
(07:03):
with less and less coverage on aregular basis and consumers
have no idea they're notprotected?
George Siegal (07:10):
We don't, and that's so disappointing.
So the role of a privateadjuster when you come in, do
you have to be requested?
You have to be requested by thehomeowner, but doesn't the
insurance company have theoption of believing you or not
believing you?
Or is that then just the nextstep to give them a leg up in
litigation?
Ron Snouffer (07:26):
So we're hired directly by the property owner,
yes, and we're going to documenteverything that's supposed to
be covered, based on the policycoverage that they do have.
But, like with anything, if theinsurance company decides to
clamp down and not pay foranything or not do the right
thing, they have thatopportunity.
But when you have a good publicadjuster that knows what
(07:48):
they're doing, the chances ofthat having to go to litigation
are a lot slimmer, becausethey'd rather deal with us than
attorney, because the good onesknow how to document a file so
that it will be seen in trial.
And that's the important thingis we set every case up, no
matter if we think it's going tobe in front of a jury or not,
(08:09):
so that it would if it had to bepresented in front of a jury,
and they'd rather deal with usthan an attorney.
George Siegal (08:18):
Now it's.
It's almost impossible to gettrue statistics out of like the
financial office of insurancehere in Florida.
I've written them numeroustimes for our film and I never
hear back from them when youguys get involved.
Are there any kind ofstatistics of success versus
beating your head against a wall, or is it hard to track that?
I think it's hard to track that, but I think NAPIA.
Ron Snouffer (08:40):
You know, I think it's hard to track that, but I
think NAPIA, the NationalAssociation for Public Insurance
Adjusters, and FAPIA have somestats on that.
I don't want to quote somethingthat I don't know.
George Siegal (08:53):
Sure but.
Ron Snouffer (08:54):
I mean in our history on claims that we've
been involved in.
We've settled almost $200million in settlements.
We've settled almost $200million in settlements, so
obviously we've gotten a lotmore money than what the
insurance companies initiallyoffered.
George Siegal (09:11):
And when you come out and go over a house that
has damage and you saw thatmaybe the insurance company said
, yeah, you have $10,000 worthof damage, and then you start
going over everything and thenit's 10, then it's 20, then it's
30.
Then you need a new roof, thenyou need to jack up the
foundation.
I mean just so things just keeppiling up.
Do you lay it out in a way thatthe insurance company sees okay
, we missed this, we didn't seethat.
(09:33):
How do they justify being so?
Ron Snouffer (09:35):
off?
That's a great question.
So I'm going to reference youback to 2008, when I was still
an IA and working for thecarrier cat claims.
We used to get paid 25 centsfor every picture we took.
So we were incentivized to takepictures of all the damage out
(09:58):
there on the property that wecould not just to take random
pictures of anything, but actualpictures of damage.
Now they put a cap on it rightwhen I left that you can only
take 10 pictures.
(10:18):
Well, my file on a regularresidential roof is going to be
150, 200 pictures of all thedamage that we find out there
and so that we can show thestory of what really happened in
that claim.
And then we're going todocument it using an estimate
and a proprietary software.
I'm sure you've heard ofXactimate before.
We use the software, xactimate,to write up our estimate and
(10:44):
then we're going to use codes,depending on what city it's in,
and bring those codes in andmanufacture builder's
instructions and build a file sothat it should be very easy for
the insurance company to lookat and go.
Yeah, we missed this.
Either send a senior adjusterback out there or just pay the
claim.
George Siegal (10:56):
Now, if I go to my insurance company and they're
difficult should I becontacting a private adjuster
before I contact an attorney?
Ron Snouffer (11:06):
Yes.
So most of the time if you hirean attorney they're going to
hire a public adjuster.
They have to have somebodywho's going to go out there and
do all the details and the costestimating for the damage
associated with the claim andreview all the policy and so on
and so forth.
So we're also the first stepbecause generally we're going to
(11:29):
get a claim settled in a couplemonths, two or three months.
Where you know, unfortunately,the legal system, you send out a
60 day demand and then theyreject that and then you're
looking at waiting however longit's going to be, depending on
the court dockets for when youget in front of the court and
depositions and so on and soforth.
(11:49):
So typically you could belooking at a year, year and a
half, two years on a court caseor we might've been able to
settle it in 60 days.
George Siegal (11:58):
How much do you guys take?
What percentage do you get ofthe claim percentage do you get
of the claim.
Ron Snouffer (12:02):
So that varies state to state.
Here in Texas we charge 10%.
Is the maximum that we cancharge.
In Florida they can charge 10%,I believe, during a storm event
and then one year after a stormevent I think it's 20%.
George Siegal (12:24):
I'm licensed there in Florida but we don't
actively participate in FloridaToo many insurance carriers are
going bankrupt and the propertyowners can't be made whole.
Yeah, we see that far too often.
And then the thing they didrecently with this rule out of
the legislature where you can nolonger get attorney's fees if
(12:44):
you have to sue your insurancecompany.
So even if I go to you let'ssay I have a $50,000 claim will
I have enough money left to fixmy house if I have to pay
anybody?
So the insurance company isalready putting me, even if I go
to you, and 10% is less thanwhat an attorney probably would
take.
I think it could be as much aswhat third of what you um, what
you collect, am.
Ron Snouffer (13:06):
I going to have enough money to fix my house.
But yeah but here's the thingright now you have zero or 20%.
Is 90% better than zero or 20%?
I understand there there's afee associated with it, but you
can do all the same things thatwe can do as a property owner.
But most property owners don'tunderstand those rules.
(13:27):
They don't know how to documentthe damage and put it into a
package that, if it does have tobe seen by a jury, they're
going to win.
I mean, there is some expertiseto what we do.
George Siegal (13:44):
Oh, there's no question.
And if I want to be proactiveon my end, isn't it a good idea
for me to at least have a veryaccurate record, before the
damage, of what I actually had?
So you have a better chance ofcoming in and then stepping into
the situation?
If I have pictures of thepaintings and the TVs and the
washers and dryers and all thatstuff, does that help if I have
(14:07):
my stuff ready before you comein?
Ron Snouffer (14:10):
So it makes my job so much easier.
There's stuff where you can beproactive and the majority of
the people that are proactiveand have that documentation in
place, those claims are settledmuch faster, much easier than
the people who are reactive anddon't have a clue where anything
is.
They don't know where theirreceipts are now all burned up.
(14:32):
They don't know where thedocumentation is on the
materials that they use to buildthe house or what their
furniture costs for the flood orthe fire or whatever the case
may be.
You have to be proactive inorder to help yourself in a
claim.
George Siegal (14:52):
To what level and how can you gather some of that
stuff?
If I was to walk around myhouse, I might know what my
computer costs Well, just takingpictures.
But if I have a picture of myTV, is that enough for the
insurance company or do I haveto have an actual receipt?
The same for the washer anddryer, the sofa?
I mean, how deep of a record doI need to have?
Ron Snouffer (15:12):
So you don't necessarily have to have
receipts for all that stuff, butif you have pictures of
everything, that's a lot harderto dispute.
You know, I was talking to agentleman the other day that he
got hit by a tornado and theinsurance company was asking for
pictures or receipts for allhis tools that got spread across
the county because the shopthat was next door to his house
(15:34):
did get leveled and threw toolsmiles and miles away from his
house.
It's like I've been a carpenterfor 20 something years.
I've bought that stuff over mylifetime.
I don't have two pictures orreceipts for all of it, but he
had a ton of pictures, so that'seasier to overcome then.
George Siegal (15:56):
And the best time to do that is on a sunny day,
when there's no stress andyou're not running around going.
What do I do?
What do I do?
Everybody could take an hour ortwo and just go around and
photograph the heck out of theirhouse and put that in the cloud
, so it's never lost it's easy.
(16:18):
Yeah, you would think that wouldbe.
Now, when you look at the kindof things that go on in Florida,
texas is kind of like the WildWest, though.
Builders get away with allkinds of stuff in Texas and they
make it very clear you can'tsue them, you can only go to
arbitration.
So you're kind of up against it.
You get a crappy builder andthen you have to go to your
insurance.
I mean, does that make your jobmore difficult, difficult, or
(16:39):
does it just give you morebusiness because there's more
damage every time there's astorm?
Ron Snouffer (16:43):
so we we're in the hail capital of the country,
right here in uh, dfw.
So every seven to ten years Iwould say somebody's going to
get a new roof and probablygoing to get siding and new
windows, but I mean the, thequality of workmanship.
I wouldn't say um makes itworse, uh, as far as the amount
(17:09):
of claims or anything like that,because I mean last week we had
three inch size hail sweepacross the metroplex and, uh, we
had three of those storms lastyear.
I mean, when tennis ball sizehit, tennis ball size hail hits
anything, it's going to damageit yeah, I used to live in san
(17:29):
antonio, texas, and they're alittle more weather immune than
last week too sure, but dallasis right on that boundary where
you can get snow, you can gethail, you can get more likely to
have tornadoes.
George Siegal (17:42):
I mean it's pretty scary.
There's a lot of stuff to keepyou busy.
Ron Snouffer (17:45):
That's why I live here.
George Siegal (17:48):
But it is a beautiful area.
Ron Snouffer (17:50):
It is.
George Siegal (17:51):
The trade-off.
Ron Snouffer (17:52):
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff to do here in Texas
.
I mean, everybody apparentlywants to come here.
I just saw this morning thatwe're up to 8.1 million people
in the Metroplex.
I want to say when I moved here25 years ago, we had less than
3 million.
George Siegal (18:07):
And that's just today from coming across the
southern border.
No, just kidding, but you know.
So I think, when you look atwhen you, when the when built to
last, buyer beware comes out, Ithink what people are going to
see is and I don't want to justthrow builders completely under
the bus, because there arebuilders that do a great job, oh
yeah, but there's a lot ofstuff that's built that is not
(18:29):
built to last and you wonderwhat the thought process is.
And then when you add thattogether with insurance, that
doesn't pay.
So now I have a crummy housethat was poorly built, that I
overpaid for and I don't haveinsurance, so it just almost
makes it not worth owningproperty.
Ron Snouffer (18:46):
So I've actually had my real estate license for
since 2001,.
So almost 25 years, and I cantell you, like what you're
saying, there has been a lot ofbuilders come and go over the
years that are doing the bareminimum requirements here in
Texas in order to get by withbuilding something.
(19:07):
But it also goes back toaffordability too.
You know, if you're going toput in the house that's going to
last a lifetime, it's going tobe a lot more expensive than the
average consumer can afford.
George Siegal (19:23):
Well then I say, slap a disclaimer on it and say
that this is a disposable house,that this is seriously, this is
temporary housing.
Don't don't tell me that it'sbuilt to code so it's going to
last.
I now know, if you build tocode in Tampa, florida, it's not
going to withstand a categoryfour or five hurricane.
The same thing goes wherethey're rebuilding Mexico Beach.
(19:43):
They're not rebuilding towithstand the disaster that
wiped them out, and I just thinkthat's insane.
Ron Snouffer (19:50):
Now we got had a couple of clients that were on
Sanibel Island.
We didn't go out there to, wereferred them to somebody else
there in Florida.
But I mean it was prettydevastating.
One of them had just retired toFlorida and life savings into
their house and it was gonewithin six months of them moving
there.
George Siegal (20:09):
Yeah, Sanibel Island was probably one of the
most beautiful places you wouldever see, and it just does not
look the same now.
I mean, it's just there's alayer of this brine stuff on
everything.
The mosquitoes were everywhereand I know they're going to
eventually come back, but it'sgoing to take a long time.
So somebody that wedgesthemselves in there in a
retirement situation they havenothing to fall back on.
Ron Snouffer (20:32):
Oh, they already sold their house and moved.
So they were devastated.
So they moved up into Georgiaia.
They couldn't handle the theweather in florida well, I got
news for them.
George Siegal (20:44):
They get bad storms in georgia too, and and
what we're seeing is you go,okay, I, I don't want to own a
home, I'm just going to be arenter.
Most of florida is now buildingwood apartment complexes.
What?
They're wood.
If you, if you go to right,right like a mile from my house,
there's a bar right on thewater called the salt shack.
(21:04):
Right next to them, four hugebuildings, all wood, directly on
the bay where the storm surgewould be most likely to come in
from, so it's not elevated.
There's a parking garage andthen it's four stories of wood.
And then throughout PascoCounty, throughout Fort Myers,
in fact, people are.
I did a post on Reddit andpeople were saying almost every
(21:26):
city they've been in in Floridahas wood apartment complexes.
Your reaction pretty much saidwhat you think about that.
Ron Snouffer (21:39):
I just thought Florida's building code was so
much further ahead than whatTexas was.
I mean Miami-Dade has some ofthe most hardest building codes
in the country.
George Siegal (21:53):
I figured most of Florida would be in the same
region as that.
You would think they wouldadopt it seeing how effective
it's been in South Florida.
But they don't.
And Mexico Beach the house wefeatured in my last film, the
last house standing that wasbuilt with a concrete block and
it had the port in place wallsand the whole house was concrete
(22:14):
and it withstood a Category 5hurricane.
The houses that are going upnext to it are wood houses that
are now elevated.
They're not following theconcrete forms pattern because
they want to save money.
So all those houses we had.
Experts say that that place isa time bomb.
Oh yeah.
Ron Snouffer (22:35):
I mean, florida is good for a hurricane every few
years and they're gettingstronger and stronger every year
.
It seems like I mean, I don'tknow what's going to happen with
these wood frame buildings.
George Siegal (22:48):
I don't either.
And we interviewed onegentleman who is a floodplain
manager and he was at a citycouncil meeting in Mexico Beach
and he was talking about howthere were residents that were
wiped out by Michael but werearguing for them not to raise
the standard to rebuild, thatthey wanted to have a lower code
.
So a year or two after theystrengthened the building code
(23:09):
they dropped it back down againand lowered the elevation
required for building.
I hope nothing bad happensthere, but it sure has a weird
feeling to it yeah like I saidit's crazy.
I thought most of florida wasunder the building code for
miami-dade no, and I guaranteeyou, most people moving into an
(23:31):
apartment complex don't don'tknow that there's, there's, no,
there's nothing stamped on theside of the wall of the building
.
Going, you're taking a riskliving here and make sure you
don't stay in the event of astorm and probably one of the
good things that's exciting tosee.
We interviewed the CEO of theTampa Housing Authority, which
helps lower income housing folks, and they build only concrete
(23:53):
structures.
So when they build an apartmentcomplex, it's all out of block.
That's good.
Ron Snouffer (23:57):
So when they build an apartment complex.
George Siegal (23:58):
It's all out of block, and their philosophy is
why are we going to take peoplethat are struggling and put them
in a house that's going to getwiped out?
Let's put them in somethingthat's going to survive, and I'm
wondering why people with meansaren't thinking the same way.
Ron Snouffer (24:13):
Well, I have no idea on that answer.
George Siegal (24:22):
I mean, you brought up a really good
question that I have no idea.
Yeah, it's a head scratcher.
I'm sure it keeps you guys inbusiness, but I'm sure you'd
rather not have business likethat.
It's got to be pretty difficultwhen you're called in and you
have to go out there.
Describe what that's likeemotionally when you're seeing
people stuff all over the place.
Ron Snouffer (24:37):
I mean it's quite devastating.
One of the last claims that Ihandled was Hurricane Ike and
the property owner in questionhad a hundred foot tall pine
tree fall and split his house inhalf.
He had a two-story house.
His daughters were upstairs,him and his wife were downstairs
(24:58):
and it wiped out the staircaseto get from his daughters down
to him.
And I mean two young kids under, I want to say like 12 years
old at the time and they had nomeans of getting down to their
parents and the I've heard badstories about those pine trees
(25:19):
that they don't fall like theoaks do, with maybe a little
magistrate to them.
George Siegal (25:23):
They come down like tomahawks when they drop.
I mean that could be deadly.
That's not, that's, that'sserious stuff.
Ron Snouffer (25:29):
They were lucky to be alive if that the bedrooms
weren't on the the outside ofthe house.
George Siegal (25:36):
If one of them was in the middle, somebody
would have died yeah that that'shorrible to hear stuff like
that and when, at the time whenyou get out, there are people
looking at you as a lifeline,it's like, wow, I really need
you to come through on thisVersus maybe the first guy that
comes out from the insurancecompany that disappointed them.
(25:57):
They really need you to comethrough with an accurate look at
what they're entitled to.
Ron Snouffer (26:03):
Yeah, so I can kind of tell you from both ends
of that same hurricane.
I remember one of the lastclaims I was on.
I was the seventh adjuster thathad gone out to help the
customer out.
The first six had just gone andtaken a picture of the front of
the house and said no damagewhatsoever.
Same situation house on thefront of the house looked fine,
(26:23):
there was no issues with itwhatsoever.
But I went and knocked on thedoor and I was like yeah, I'm
here to take a look at yourhouse.
You're in dispute, you haveseveral hundred thousand dollars
in damage and it's been belowdeductible six times in a row.
What seems to be the problem?
They opened the door up andthere is no back of the house.
A pine tree had fallen andtaken out the back of the house.
(26:44):
So the front of the house fromthe street looked fine but there
was no back of the house andthey still had the pine tree
sitting in the back through allthe bedrooms, all the bathrooms,
a living room there upstairswas gone in the back of the
house.
But but you couldn't tell fromthe from the front street view
(27:05):
that there was damage to it.
And I mean I was.
I was embarrassed.
George Siegal (27:12):
Yeah, I mean that's.
That's unbelievable.
You know, it's like I had a guycome out to give me an estimate
on on a roof repair and hedidn't even go up on the roof
and barked out a number.
How could people, how could sixpeople have not done more than
that?
Are they under instructions tojust half-ass it and come away
with as little as possible tothe victims, or are they just
(27:33):
lazy?
Are we getting bad people inthose jobs so?
Ron Snouffer (27:38):
you know I can't speak to that as far as how
they're hiring people, but I cansay that when I was in the
business the average age wasabout 53.
And now I think it's about 28.
So all the senior people thatwere in the business 20 years
ago, or not even 20 years ago,15 years ago are now out of the
business.
They're retired and they'refinding people who have less
(28:00):
experience at this point in time.
George Siegal (28:04):
Now I've seen videos where there are stories
where people say the switchingof adjusters.
They have an adjuster thattells them everything's set.
They think they're gettingclose to the point where they're
going to get some action fromthe insurance company and then
they switch adjusters.
Is that a deliberate delaytactic by the insurance company
to say, hey, we going to outlastthese guys.
If we, if we can drag this outsix months a year, two years,
(28:26):
they're going to have to go awayand we'll save a lot more money
than if we have to pay theclaim you know, we've seen those
tactics.
Ron Snouffer (28:33):
We can't verify 100 that that's accurate.
They reassign people on aregular basis and they'll have
claims that are just still openand they'll get assigned to
somebody else.
I have one right now.
That's exactly that situation.
We're on our fourth adjuster.
We had a snow load collapse, apartial building in Minnesota,
(28:55):
and we're on the fourth adjuster.
We got involved in Februarythis year.
It's been going on sinceDecember of 22, I believe.
So a year and three monthsbefore we got involved, and he's
on his fourth adjuster.
Once we got involved, theyswitched it to another adjuster.
George Siegal (29:16):
Wow, and I learned from an attorney that I
had on a podcast, david Murray,that when you're talking to
somebody at the insurancecompany and you think they're
taking really good notes abouteverything you're saying, if you
end up going to court theydon't have to share those notes
with your side, they don't evenhave to say they have them.
That's for their record.
(29:36):
So anybody involved in any kindof claim the homeowner needs to
have as good a records aspossible, because you can't rely
on your insurance company doingthat.
Ron Snouffer (29:48):
That's exactly right.
That's why it's so importantthat when you think there's any
issue with your insurance claimwhatsoever, you need to get help
and public adjusters are thereto help and be on the consumer
side.
I mean Public adjusters arethere to help and be on the
consumer side.
I mean there's things that theydo on a regular basis that they
will claim is work product, waybefore you ever have to get
(30:11):
into a lawsuit with them or juryverdict like an underwriter's
report.
We had a claim in 2019.
It ended up being the largestjury verdict in the state of
Texas in 21.
And in 2000, I think it was 19,.
The underwriter report they hadbought the building in November.
(30:34):
The underwriter report said theroof was in excellent condition
.
They had three differentinspectors go out and take a
look at the building.
The third one said this is theCadillac of all roofs, it's in
excellent condition.
And then in trial they wantedto say that it was all wear and
tear, old, crappy conditionbecause they bought the building
(30:54):
in November and in March theygot hit with softball-sized hail
destroyed the roof.
So they went from getting fourmonths of premium to having to
pay $2 million for a roof.
They didn't want to pay it.
George Siegal (31:08):
It doesn't surprise me that that kind of
stuff goes on.
You know, I would think thatit's like the bully on the
schoolyard.
It's like they'll get away withwhatever they can.
How do we fight back?
How do we make this a levelplaying field so, when the
(31:29):
disaster does happen, we're notvictimized twice?
Ron Snouffer (31:34):
I think by you educating the public.
That's one of the biggestproblems that we have on our
side of the industry.
As public adjusters and firstparty attorneys, we all have the
same issue it's getting theword out.
I think you also interviewedDoug Quinn with APA.
I mean before his nonprofit wasaround, there was nobody
(31:56):
advocating outside of the publicadjusters and first party claim
people for consumers and westill aren't widely known.
I mean most people don't knowthat they have an option.
If the insurance company deniesor underpays, then they just
think they got to take it andsuck it up and pull the money
out of their 401k and do therepairs themselves.
George Siegal (32:19):
I had no idea and I was making a filmoug, pointed
me towards people.
We ended up interviewing dicktutweiler, who.
This guy was just amazing inthe film, the, the things that
he pointed out, and and.
And I'm one of those peoplethat I think should have known
better.
I constantly get slapped in theface by the amount of things I
don't know.
That's why I don't try to claimto be an expert.
(32:40):
I'm just passionate aboutwanting to help people.
But people need to know aboutthis stuff.
You need to know that.
Hey, there's somebody I cancall that can come out here and
kind of level the playing fielda little bit.
So at least I have an idea whatI'm working with and not just
taking some adjuster that'sphoning it in.
Ron Snouffer (32:59):
I agree a hundred percent, but, like I said,
education is a key part of thereason I wanted to start doing
some of these podcasts iseducation is a big issue for us
and the only thing we can do istry and get out the word to as
many people as we can.
George Siegal (33:14):
So what's the best way that that people can
get in touch with you and, uh,how, how, how should they?
Should?
They have you in their Rolodexso if an accident happens, they
know I'm calling Ron.
Ron Snouffer (33:26):
Well, the easiest way to get in touch with me is
probably through our website,wwwnationalclaimsnegotiatorscom.
We have a free claim review onthere.
We get claims from all over thecountry and advise people for
free on the front end.
If they want to hire us, thenthere's, of course, a fee for
(33:47):
that, depending on what thestate is, and I mean we want to
be an advocate first and try andserve people and make sure they
understand what they're dealingwith when it comes to their
policy and what their claimreally should be at.
George Siegal (34:02):
Yeah, I mean I thought you made an excellent
point early in the interviewwhen you said well, you're
getting nothing.
10% isn't really that bad ifyou get paid.
The problem is when thesepeople don't understand I think
the homeowner doesn't we don'tpresent to them enough what the
cost of doing nothing is.
And then when you startinterviewing people that five,
(34:23):
six, seven years you hear aboutDoug Quinn not getting back in
his house for seven years.
He said the cost of doingsomething up front to avoid that
is so much less than the costof having to do it after the
fact that you can't even comparethem.
Ron Snouffer (34:38):
Yeah, it's.
I think I read a statisticsomewhere.
If you defer the maintenanceuntil it collapses or completely
breaks down and when I say themaintenance, if you have damage
from a hurricane, a tornado,hail damage, fire, whatever If
you defer that maintenance untilit fails completely, you spend
(35:00):
10 times as much for the samedamage.
George Siegal (35:05):
And that's not even calculating what your time
and your inconvenience and thethings you can't do because
you're now living in this hellthat's been created by something
beyond your control, I meanthat seems to be really bad.
I mean the kind of things Dougwent through, if you know, his
story is just horrible.
Ron Snouffer (35:24):
Yeah, I'm familiar with his story, but that's a
regular occurrence here in Texas.
What we see a lot of here inTexas because we have so much
hail is property owners will gethit by hail and the insurance
company will come out and payfor 184 shingles or $3,000 worth
of damage below deductible andthen four years later they get
(35:45):
hit again $3,000 or $4,000 worthof damage and then three or
four years later they get hit athird time and now it's $10,000
worth of damage.
But you never made the repairsbecause you didn't understand.
Just because it was below yourdeductible, you were responsible
to make those repairs.
Because you didn't understand,just because it was below your
deductible, you were responsibleto make those repairs.
George Siegal (36:09):
And so now they deduct $8,000, $10,000 off your
$10,000 repair that you shouldbe getting in full.
Now, yeah, and I think peopledon't understand.
They don't calculate thatthere's a science behind what
that deductible is.
So if you have a 2% deductible,they know that most claims
probably do not go over that, sothey're going to have to pay
money.
But that doesn't mean thedamage isn't there, like you say
.
So you can't just push thatstuff off.
Ron Snouffer (36:31):
Well, the other part of it is we're seeing like
policies that are completelyawful at this point in time.
We had a previous client whobought her house in, I think,
2017.
Right after she bought it, shehad a hail claim and she bought
it for $600,000.
So she had a 1% deductible.
She got the roof fixed and thenjust last year last summer, in
(36:55):
2023, so the roof was less than10 years old, but it was now an
ACB policy and she had a one anda half percent deductible.
And even though her house thatshe bought in 2016 was $600,000,
now it was over a million bucksbecause inflation in Texas
(37:16):
housing prices went through theroof, and so she had a $15,000
deductible along with an ACVpolicy on a $40,000 roof, and so
she got $20,000 in ACV money,minus $15,000 for her deductible
, and she had $5,000 to replacea $40,000 roof.
George Siegal (37:37):
What happens is, a lot of times they don't end up
replacing it, do they?
Ron Snouffer (37:40):
She hasn't.
She's not going to, she's goingto wait.
Hopefully get new insurance iswhat she thinks.
The problem is that claim isthere.
The insurance company has adatabase called Clue, which they
manage all the documentationfor every claim that's filed on
a property.
All the insurance companiesshare that database, so even
(38:02):
when she switches it's stillthere.
George Siegal (38:04):
Yeah, that follows you around on your
permanent record that's not agood thing.
All right.
So if you had to leave us withone kernel of wisdom that's
going to save homeowners angstand headaches, what would you
tell us?
Ron Snouffer (38:18):
I would tell you that plans fail for lack of
advisors, but with many advisorsthey succeed.
That's Proverbs 27, 17.
And it's important to askquestions when it comes to your
insurance plan.
There is no bad question.
Most people haven't beenthrough this before and if they
(38:39):
have, the rules have changed,the game has changed.
George Siegal (38:42):
they need to ask somebody yeah, I agree you, I
I'll ask questions till you lookat me and say, look, our time
is up, um and then.
And don't just ask thequestions, write the answers
down, because a lot of timesyou're talking to a uh, an
expert at something and you'relistening to them and you're
trying to take it all in, andthen 10 minutes later you're on
to them and you're trying totake it all in and then 10
minutes later you're ontosomething else, even if they'll
(39:03):
let you record it, just so youhave that information, because
that's gold.
Ron Snouffer (39:08):
Most adjusters are never going to let you record
them or film them or anythinglike that.
Really, they know the statuteon that.
They know that a recording isgoing to be used in court
against them at some point intime.
They never want that to happen.
George Siegal (39:22):
So then take good notes.
Ron Snouffer (39:24):
Take good notes.
George Siegal (39:26):
All right, Well, listen, Ron.
All your contact informationwill be in the show notes.
I know we went back and forthand had some challenges trying
to get together today, but Ireally appreciate your time.
Thank you for sharing theinformation.
Ron Snouffer (39:37):
Thank you and I'm really looking forward to
watching your video.
I didn't even know that was you.
That's really cool that that'syou.
George Siegal (39:43):
That is me and I'm excited about the film and I
think I hope it opens a lot ofeyes and helps a lot of people.
Ron Snouffer (39:51):
When is release date on that?
George Siegal (39:53):
You know we say this summer.
You know, but you got to haveall the pieces fall together.
Everything has to work out, butwe're making great progress.
You know, the trailer is up nowand we're trying to get a
celebrity to be the voice of thefilm and I'm excited about it.
I think it's going to be agreat film.
Ron Snouffer (40:13):
I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah, I'll be watching for itcoming out.
Yeah.
George Siegal (40:18):
Excellent Thanks, Ron.
Ron Snouffer (40:19):
Thank you, man.
George Siegal (40:21):
If you have a homeowner story good or bad I
really want to hear from you.
Be a guest on this podcast andshare your story so other people
don't end up making the samemistakes.
It's an uphill battle being ahomeowner, so let's join
together and help each other out.
It might be our best and onlychance of having a good outcome.
Thanks for taking the time tolisten today.
(40:41):
I'll see you next time.
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