January 23, 2024 • 27 mins
January 23, 2024
119. You'll Love Lucy After She Teaches You to Organize
Professional organizer Lucy Milligan Wahl shares invaluable insights on conquering the chaos of home organization. Lucy's no-nonsense approach begins with tackling paper clutter, urging listeners to scrutinize documents with suspicion and create a system for easy retrieval. Transitioning to garages, she prompts a thoughtful evaluation of item relevance, distinguishing between necessities and relics. Lucy delves into the unique challenges of decluttering teen spaces, emphasizing a balance between guidance and respecting individuality. Addressing costs, she highlights the value of investing in professional help. Lucy's wisdom culminates in practical advice: start small, embrace the process, and steadily progress towards an organized and serene home.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
George Siegal (00:00):
Look around your house and think for a minute.
Do you have too much stuff?
Does your house feel cluttered?
Do your friends think you are acandidate for hoarders?
Well, there's a way you can fixthis.
My guest today is Lucy MilliganWahl.
She's the founder of LMW edits,a boutique professional
organizing company based in SanFrancisco.
You don't have to throw up yourarms and give up surrounded by
(00:23):
all that mess.
After you hear what Lucy has tosay, you'll want to dive right
in and create some space.
I'm George Siegal and this isHome Owners Be Aware the podcast
that teaches you everything youneed to know about being a
homeowner.
Lucy, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (00:42):
Thank you for having me.
I am happy to be here.
George Siegal (00:44):
All right now as I look over what you do and I
find it fascinating because wecould do this entire podcast
just on the mess in my house andhow.
I would need you Explain topeople exactly what your role is
and how you help them with whatyou do.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (01:00):
Absolutely so what I do is professional
organizing and basically I takecare of stuff, so I make sure
that the stuff in your house isthe right stuff, it's the stuff
that you need, and you can findthat stuff quickly and easily,
so you can stop worrying aboutthe stuff and just get on with
the rest of your life.
George Siegal (01:16):
Yeah, I probably spend half my time finding
things and it's such a waste oftime.
So let's go through sometypical things and we'll kind of
solve my problems.
It'll be like a freeconsultation, but I think most
people have this problem as well.
My office has got papersstacked all over the place
because I moved from one part ofthe house to the other, so I
(01:38):
have things that aren't filedyet, things that are sitting on
desks and I don't look like ahoarder, but it's really
unorganized and hard to findthings.
How do I even begin to tacklesomething like that?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (01:49):
Yeah, a lot of people struggle with paper.
We're at this funny time insociety where everything is
moving to digital and yet westill can't quite shake the need
to have some paperdocumentation.
Obviously, it's differentdepending on what work you do,
what kind of like personalsituation you have with like
estates and property andwhatever, but in general, I
(02:10):
apply a very strong index ofsuspicion to any paper
whatsoever.
When I'm working with somebodyon organizing documents, my
first assumption is that weprobably don't need most of it,
because the only reason to keepa piece of paper is because you
will need it again, which soundsreally basic, right, like
that's super basic.
But think about what you keep interms of what you file.
(02:32):
Like, did you file it becauseyou're like okay, I know I'm
gonna need this again.
It's gonna be this specificsituation.
Here's where I'm gonna look, orare you like?
I know this seems kind ofimportant, I guess I should file
it.
And so, with my clients, I'mdrilling down to why do we need
this, exactly what for?
And then where do we store it?
How do we file it so that youcan find it again when that
(02:54):
occasion comes?
George Siegal (02:55):
Yeah, now give me an example, like if a trade
comes out, a plumber comes outor somebody installs shelves or
somebody puts something in theyard, I just tend to have that
receipt from them somewhere andokay, so why do I need that?
Well, three years from now, orthree years ago when I had that
person here, now I need themagain.
So I'm just I'm at a loss ofhow I would even move forward to
(03:17):
get started tackling this.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (03:19):
Yeah, absolutely so.
For someone like you it'ssounding like the reason you
need that information is it'scontact info.
So then I'd like just rip theirbusiness card off the off the
invoice or whatever, and have afolder that just says home
professionals I like.
There it is, and then whenyou're looking for a project
you're like all right, there'sthe plumber I use, there's the
(03:39):
contractor I use perfect.
I mean, obviously, if somethingwas done to improve your home
that you aren't going to takewith you and you own your home
you do want to keep the wholeinvoice because that's that's
sort of like helpful, helpfulfor evaluation of your home.
But if you rent or it'ssomething you can take with you,
or it's just a basic repair,you don't actually need to keep
the whole invoice.
George Siegal (03:59):
Okay now another thing I see when we walk our
dogs around the neighborhood issome people when they open their
garage, it looks like it's justa thing of beauty organized,
not trash everywhere.
And then you see garages wherethey look like they're an
episode of hoarders, where thereis stuff everywhere.
What do you do about that?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (04:24):
With garages they become a dumping ground,
right, like that's just like Idon't know where to put it, I'm
just going to shove it in thegarage basements, attics, also
similar.
And so when I'm working on agarage with somebody, it's about
what in here do we actuallyneed?
I mean, it's back to that right.
And a lot of times in garagesyou will find items left over
(04:44):
from a previous activity, aprevious home, someone who used
to live in the home and doesn'tanymore, and they just kind of
make their way into the garageby default.
And so just asking the simplequestions of like do you still
ski, for example?
And in this case, this casehappens to me a lot because I
live in San Francisco, we haveaccess to mountains.
(05:05):
There are a lot of people whoski.
I myself am a skier and I cantell when they don't actually
ski anymore because I know howold those skis are.
So there's a little bit ofinsider info I have about
certain activities.
It can be the same with campinggear, like is this camping gear
and good enough repair that youcould use it tomorrow?
George Siegal (05:24):
Yeah, so if you still have wooden skis in your
garage, that's probably right.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (05:28):
Well, hang those suckers up.
It's great decor.
George Siegal (05:30):
Yeah, now another one.
Okay, in a laundry room itseems like screws, bolts,
hardware, stuff all gets thrownin drawers and all of a sudden
you've got these drawers full ofstuff and I'm always afraid to
throw something out because thenI'm afraid something's going to
break.
And I'm going to have thatflashback and going oh, I saw
where that bolt was.
What would you do with all thatstuff?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (05:51):
So this is a place where self knowledge is
really helpful.
So I have some clients who arequite handy.
They do a lot of their projectsthemselves and they know they
know hardware well enough thatif we do like little drawers of
different kinds of sizes ofscrews and nails and stuff,
that's going to be helpful tothem.
For someone like me who's notespecially handy, having a bunch
(06:16):
of different sizes of screws isactually not going to help me
because I don't actually knowwhat I'm looking for.
So it's important to know, like, where your capabilities lie
and where it's just not going tohappen.
So, for example, say you puttogether a shelving unit and it
comes with all the stuff to putit together and there's like an
Allen wrench and some screws andthey always give you some extra
and the temptation is to keepthat extra.
(06:39):
And my question is is theshelving unit really going to
ever need those things?
And if it does, are you goingto fix it or are you probably
just going to buy a new one?
And that's an uncomfortablequestion to ask, because just
buying a new one sounds kind ofwasteful to some people and it
can sound like that's not thecorrect decision.
(07:01):
But it's important to berealistic and know like, if I'm
in a jam and this thing fallsapart, what am I actually going
to do and what am I actuallygoing to need on hand?
George Siegal (07:11):
Okay, now it's interesting.
Now I also have a lot ofbroadcast equipment and I know
this.
But it happens to my wife, ithappens to my kids.
We all end up with these olderplugs, things that used to
connect stuff.
So if I open my closet, there'sprobably 20 plugs in there and
cables and wires and all thisstuff and my fear again is
throwing that out.
And then I go gosh, I need todo something with my computer
and I'm missing cable numberseven that has this and this and
(07:35):
this.
What do you do in that case?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (07:37):
So I run into this a lot.
Everybody's got all kinds ofplugs and wires and stuff, even
if they're not doingbroadcasting.
And what I do is I separate itall out and we go through it
individually and I ask thequestion of what is this for?
And you, being a broadcastingprofessional, you probably know
what everything is for.
And once we separate out theindividual pieces, it becomes a
lot clearer which ones youactually need, which ones you
(07:59):
don't.
What we do with our brains iswe chunk.
So it's like when you memorizea phone number, you chunk the
sections of the phone number.
When you see a pile of wires,you chunk that as one pile and
you sort of tell yourself Ieither keep the whole pile or I
get rid of the whole pile.
And my job is to pick it apartand figure out what pieces you
need and what pieces you don't.
George Siegal (08:22):
I need to get on that too, boy.
It sounds like I got a lot todo.
Now.
A lot of people have olderparents and the parents are
living their lives, but they'renot necessarily thinking of the
day that they're not around andall that stuff is just left
behind, and then you've leftyour children with just way too
many things to make toughdecisions.
The first thing I would say ishow can parents make it easier
(08:44):
for their children, or shouldthey not even bother?
And it's just the kids faultwhen that tragic or sad day
happens.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (08:50):
You know, there's a wonderful book that
you may have heard of that Ithink it will help people think
about this and it's from theperspective of someone going
through this herself.
It's called the Gentle Art ofSwedish Deaf Cleaning and it is
written by an elderly woman whohas done this process herself
and she sort of lays out notonly how you do it but why you
(09:12):
do it.
And I think it's so helpfulbecause, you know, coming from
me telling a senior person thatthey need to clean out their
stuff so they don't burn theirchildren that can be a little
presumptuous sounding, because Imyself have never been in their
shoes.
I don't know what that's like,and I try to greet moments like
this, where things can be veryemotional, with a lot of empathy
and a lot of understanding.
And so I think if you knowsomeone who's thinking about
(09:34):
should I downsize, should I not?
Should I get rid of stuff,should I not?
This book can be helpfulbecause it really puts it in
context in a way that's likefrom someone who's been through
this experience.
I generally think if someone isolder and they're thinking about
this and they're thinking aboutwhat they're going to do with
all of their stuff, you'realready on the right track.
You're already thinking intothe future about what's what
(09:57):
life is going to be like foryour children, and I think
that's a huge gift.
And I do believe that the moreyou can do now to save your kids
from having to go through allthe stuff, the better it is,
because what we have is sort ofthe sandwich generation right,
the people who have bothchildren young children to
manage and senior parents tomanage, and you know these
people are trying to raise theirkids.
(10:17):
They don't necessarily havebandwidth in their lives to take
on the project of dealing witha deceased parents, lifetime of
belongings and many people do,and that's that's great.
But from my perspective, itwould be an incredible gift to
not force your kids to do that.
George Siegal (10:37):
Yeah, we can also turn that completely around.
So because I experienced thiswhen my when my father passed
away is you go into their closetand you just don't even know
where to start.
I saw it with my dad when hismother passed away, where he was
just sitting in her housesurrounded by all this stuff,
just paralyzed, not knowing whatto do and how to even approach
something like that.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (10:56):
Yeah, it's really difficult because when
you think about things, trulyit's just stuff.
The memories are in our brainsand our hearts.
They're not in the things, andso once the person to whom these
things are attached is gone,the things tend to lose a lot of
meaning, especially if youdidn't have the context
previously.
So, again, for someone who'sthinking about what they're
(11:17):
leaving behind, to at least sitdown and have some conversations
of like this is important.
This is not, don't worry aboutit, at least give people the lay
of the land.
George Siegal (11:27):
Yeah, I think one of the things that makes that
more difficult is then when youhear stories about somebody that
just cleans out everything, andthen there's some garage sale
where some valuable paintingends up being discovered that
you had no idea about, andthere's also that fear of giving
away some kind of familyheirloom or something of value
that then you'll never get back.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (11:46):
Yeah, and I think that's where the value of
working with professionals comesin.
I don't specialize in estateclear outs myself.
There are many organizers whodo, and they can really help a
family go through stuff andidentify what might have some
value and what is just kind ofnot worth their time to deal
with.
And so I think worrying aboutsomething of value not being
(12:10):
capitalized on can be veryparalyzing.
And when it comes to gettingrid of things that might have
value, even if it's not in adownsizing or an estate
situation, I encourage myclients to think about.
You know, the trade-offs.
There's always a trade-off whenit comes to stuff.
If you're going to keep a bunchof stuff in case it has value,
that has a cost.
It has the cost of you storingthe stuff, you cleaning the
(12:33):
stuff, you taking care of thestuff.
There's no costless alternative.
So a lot of what I talk aboutwith my clients is okay, you can
keep that, but let's talk aboutwhat consequence that has for
your goals, for the project.
George Siegal (12:45):
Yeah, I think it's things to like.
It could be jewelry, it couldbe baseball cards, it could be
Some kind of statue or figurinethat you just don't know about.
There's that fear of my gosh.
This.
This could be worth a fortune,and here I just gave it away.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (13:02):
Yeah, there's a really quick and easy
way to at least get a little bitof a handle on whether
something has value, especiallyif you know what it is.
Go on eBay, search for thatitem and click on sold Not what
people are listening for peoplewhat it actually sold for, and
that will give you at least aquick and dirty like okay, this
has some value.
Like I'm sold for twenty fivebucks, alright, whatever.
George Siegal (13:24):
Okay, now here's another problem.
Again, this one's mine, but I'msure a lot of people can relate
to it.
I have a seventeen year old anda thirteen year old, and a few
weeks ago they decided to swaprooms.
Oh yeah, just seeing what eachkid took out of their room and
move to the other room exposedhow they had way too many things
, and it's tough to get yourkids to get rid of things.
(13:47):
How do parents tackle that?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (13:50):
So I actually work with teenagers
quite a bit and I really enjoyit because I teach will tell you
what's up, they will be reallystraight up with you, they'll be
super honest and we have somereally great conversations.
And I love working with teensto, because it's a chance to set
them up for success before theysort of calcify their ideas of
what, like adult life should be.
(14:10):
But it's it's working throughthe process with a goal in mind,
which is the same way approachany.
Any a project for an adult islike alright, what kind of space
do you want to live in, whatkind of life do you want?
And then going through thestuff in the space and does this
stuff support that or does ittake away from that?
And I think sometimes we get ina mind frame where it's just
(14:33):
like hey, kid, you got to cleanyour room.
Like just go clean your room,just deal with it.
But taking a step back and sortof walking them through the
whole process can be a lot more.
You have a lot better resultsin the end and you're in your
serve.
You're respecting theirautonomy, right like you're
empowering them to makedecisions about their space
instead of like go clean yourroom.
George Siegal (14:55):
Well, you know this, it's tough and I think,
especially with teenage girls.
My daughter on her bathroomcounter, and that's one of the
reasons they switch, becausethis room had a bigger bathroom.
There's products all on thecounter, all in the shower, all
under the sink.
I mean I would think you needtwo or three things.
I wouldn't think you would needtwo hundred things.
So getting kids to pair thatstuff down is like it's pulling,
(15:15):
like pulling teeth.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (15:18):
Yeah, we actually do a lot of projects
like that.
My my organizing assistant thatworks with me is a big makeup
and skincare person herself, andso I often have her do that job
With with teen girls, becausethey can have a good
conversation about what theproducts are, what use they have
, and I think it's it's it'shelping them figure out what's
part of the daily routine,what's part of the party, like
special day routine, and thenwhat do I actually not need?
(15:39):
Because I tried it, I don'tlike it, the color doesn't work
for me.
These are the conversationsthat we have, and I think people
try and skip over that part.
They try to just be like, hey,get rid of it all.
But we have to have theconversation to understand what
we want to get rid of and why.
Now, it's part of working withclients once you've helped them
get rid of a lot of stuff.
George Siegal (16:01):
They are on kind of a maintenance program, so
when new stuff comes in theyknow how to avoid getting to
where they were when they had toget rid of all of it.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (16:09):
So I will say I appointed pride is that I
have very few recurring clients.
My my structure of the way Iwork is to set someone up with a
system that they can maintainso that even if they fall off
the wagon a little bit, thestructure is still there and
they can come back to it ontheir own time.
I get return clients whenpeople are repurposing a space.
For example, say, we organize ahome office and now they're
(16:32):
having a baby and that needs tobe a baby's room will do that.
But I try to avoid amaintenance program because I
don't want people to becomedependent on me.
I don't think that'sparticularly healthy.
I want, I want to know that Ihave taught them the skills that
they need and they can comeback to that whenever they want
to.
George Siegal (16:48):
You have an example that you can share of
maybe the worst situation youever walked into.
Where you're going.
Oh my god, this, this is justgoing to be difficult.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (16:57):
So I will say I I don't take on any, any
job that could be classified asabove level one.
Hoarding.
There is a there is a clutterand disorganization scale that
goes from one to five.
I don't do anything above alevel one.
Level one is sort of likeclutter in multiple rooms, which
Most people have, honestly, sowe're all a little bit harder
(17:17):
inside.
That's not the kind of work Ido.
I know that about myself.
I refer to other organizersthat said, I think what is what
is very difficult and I reallyTry to screen for this in
advance if someone is notwilling to change how they do
things, it is not possible tohelp them get organized, because
just doing more of what you didbefore Is not going to get you
(17:41):
different results.
So if someone is saying I wantyou to come in and wave a magic,
want to make it all good, butI'm not going to change a single
thing about the way I operate,I can't help them.
George Siegal (17:51):
I imagine minimalists are bad for your
business.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (17:55):
Minimalists are great, because it's hard to
become a minimalist.
People need a lot of help andI've actually had multiple
clients who have said I want tobecome a minimalist and then, in
the process of working towardsit, realize they're not ready,
it's not for them.
I had a client who stated goalwas to become a minimalist and
it was a very tightly packed,clean, nice but tightly packed
(18:17):
space and so and we kept workingthrough it and this client was
just not willing to get rid ofanything, like I said, not
willing to change.
And so finally I had a brainwave.
I was like let's just see ifthis is what you really want.
So I picked a corner of thespace, we pulled everything out
of it and I said we're going toadd back things one at a time
until you decide that's theminimalist look you're going for
(18:39):
.
So we did that, added back alot more stuff than I would
personally define as minimalism,but that's fine, it's all the
clients choice.
And then I said, ok, now turnaround and see how much stuff is
left that you didn't add back.
That was there before.
It was quite a bit.
And the client was reallystunned and also realized that
(18:59):
they were not ready.
They could not do it.
This was not going to bepossible for the rest of the
space, and so it was a failure.
But I treated it as a success,because I was able to help the
client understand how, or hownot, they were able to come to
the goal.
George Siegal (19:13):
That's interesting.
I think anybody that's evergone house hunting knows, when
you walk into a house, that theyreally want to sell it and it's
staged to show so it looks likethere's a lot of room.
And then you walk into somehouses that look very lived in,
where there's stuff everywhereand it's hard to see it the same
way.
So it even hurts your value.
(19:34):
If you're selling your house,you really want it thinned out,
don't you?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (19:38):
Yes, you want it as little as possible
and it sounds people have a hardtime with this because it
sounds like the realtor istelling you to get rid of your
personality and get rid of whatmeans something to you.
But in fact, selling a house isa financial transaction.
It's not about you, it's notabout your family, it's not
(19:58):
about the memories and thewonderful times you had in this
space.
It's about the financialtransaction and getting the most
value out of it that you can.
So if you're able to take yourown identity out of the process
and just say what do I have todo to maximize value in this
transaction, that reframe canreally help.
George Siegal (20:14):
Okay, let's come back to my problem once more
time.
One more time, just so I cancome away something with
something here.
So my office you see thisinteresting set behind me, which
, which is it is organized.
There's, there's a method tothe madness, but my desk has all
these papers.
Do I just start one at a timeand just start whittling away at
it?
So I'm, I'm just thinning thatout.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (20:34):
The bad news is it does take time and it has
to be gone through step by step.
I I am often in the position oftelling people that there are
no shortcuts.
The fact is, there's a wholepattern that got you here and
you have to understand thatpattern to be able to move
forward.
And I often find myself sayingyou're, you're, cluttered.
Your stuff tells you a story.
It tells you a story about thechoices you make, the things
(20:56):
that are important to you, howyou live life on a daily basis,
and when you can understand thatstory, then you're in a
position to possibly change thepieces of it that aren't working
for you.
But if you don't know what'sgoing on and if you just either
dump everything or leaveeverything, you're not really
understanding what has led youto this place and for people
that are tackling a whole house.
George Siegal (21:18):
Where's a good place to start?
Is there a place where you kindof start here and then work
your way through?
Do you just pick what you thinkis the worst?
Start with that.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (21:25):
I I have two ways that I start.
For a client who is reallyMotivated and they want some
results fast, I pick the spotthat they use the most so that
it will make them biggestimmediate impact on their daily
life.
If I'm working with someone whois more fearful of the process,
not sure it's gonna work forthem, I start with something
(21:48):
small, really small like, maybeeven just like a corner of a
room, just so that they can feellike, oh, I understand how this
works, this is gonna work forme.
Now I'm ready to tacklesomething a little bit larger.
So it sort of depends on whatenergy you're coming into the
project with.
George Siegal (22:02):
Okay, now what should it typically and I know
it's probably different in everypart of the country to have
somebody, a professional, comein and help you tackle this?
Is there a range of what peoplecan understand that it might
cost them?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (22:12):
There is a range and it of course it
depends on what market you're in.
It also depends on howexperienced the organizer You're
working with is.
You can find somebody on taskrabbit for 25 bucks an hour.
You are going to get a 25 bucksan hour Experience.
I'm sure that task right personis wonderful and they're gonna
do their best for you, but theydon't have the years of
experience and working withmultiple types of clients as I.
(22:33):
As I say to people, I have alot of data.
I've been doing this for 10years, so I have a lot of
clients.
I have a lot of experiencesthat I can give people a better
idea of what happens when theymake certain decisions.
Someone who just started out,who doesn't do this full-time.
They just have less data, lessexperience.
But yeah, in sort of in majorSimon San Francisco major market
, you're probably looking ataround a hundred to two hundred
(22:55):
dollars an hour.
If you're in a smaller market,you're looking at maybe fifty,
seventy five an hour.
It really depends on on whereyou are and how much experience
you want your organizer to have.
George Siegal (23:05):
Okay, now that sounds like you could get
expensive.
So what?
How much time is typicallyneeded?
So you know, if I want to thinstuff out of my house, am I
looking to I have to spendthousands of dollars, or is it?
After three or four hours,we're gonna have made a pretty
good dent in everything.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (23:19):
Right.
So my general estimate todeclutter a room is between four
and eight hours and I that is alot.
I and again I'm I'm sort ofgiving the maximum full service
estimate because I work withvery busy Professionals and
their families.
They're willing to throw moneyat this problem.
They don't have the time to sitdown and do it all themselves.
(23:40):
They need me to come andaccelerate the process.
There are organizers who don'tcharge as much, who have a
little bit of a differentperspective on the time it takes
to declutter, but I am verythorough so I'm getting through
absolutely everything.
George Siegal (23:53):
If I could just win the darn lottery, I'd fly
you in.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (23:56):
You're right .
George Siegal (23:57):
That's something that I'm certainly gonna think
about.
So let's give people a takeawayhere.
I have a mess in my house and Iwant to get going.
I want to do something positive.
Tell me the first thing Ishould do.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (24:10):
So the first thing is to pick a small
defined area, pull everythingout of it and decide what you're
gonna keep.
So I'm talking about like onedrawer, one shelf, just one
little thing, because if you tryto tackle too much at once, it
becomes super overwhelming andthen you kind of quit halfway
through.
And quitting halfway through issometimes even worse than
starting, because you have abigger mess than you started out
with.
(24:30):
So if, especially if you'regonna tackle this on your own, I
would take a little piece bylittle piece.
The I'm gonna organize my wholehouse in one weekend Doesn't
have a good, a good success rate.
George Siegal (24:45):
Yeah, and I think if people could just get up to
speed with this then if theyever decide to relocate or they
want to do things, they're not,you know, even even when you
move.
Somebody once told me if youhave a box that you haven't
opened in a certain amount oftime, just get rid of it once
you've gotten there, becauseyou're you're probably never
gonna use it.
What do you think about that?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (25:03):
Yes, I absolutely agree and I would say
a corollary, which is theexperience of throwing something
out and the experience ofputting it in a box in the
garage are functionally the sameDay today.
You're not looking at it, it'snot part of your life, it's not
there.
So if the, if, the, if theimpulse says I'm gonna box this
up and leave it for later, Iwould examine that impulse.
George Siegal (25:27):
Well, you've motivated me.
I'm gonna start making a dentin this office today, because I.
Drive me crazy and I alwaysfeel like I just didn't complete
something, and then I getreally OCD about what you know.
It's just then and everythingjust completely unravels.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (25:41):
Yeah, and I always tell people to like don't
, don't worry about it beingperfect, don't worry about
getting it all done at once.
Every little step you make is astep in the right direction.
And With with stuff likeorganizing, we often let perfect
be the enemy of the good and itdoesn't really help.
George Siegal (25:58):
Yeah, so so with the office, a lot of electronic,
a lot of files, maybe just scanstuff and and just have it all
electronic and don't just don'teven file the paper.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (26:07):
Absolutely.
And and then, before you scan,do I even need to scan this?
Because back to trade-offsscanning is not costless, it
takes your time and scan isactually kind of slow, unless
you're outsourcing it completely, in which case then there's a
monetary cost there as well.
So, even with digitizing,keeping in mind, like, what do I
, what information do I actuallyneed and I can't find anywhere
(26:29):
else, and what information do Inot really need at all and I
don't need to scan?
George Siegal (26:33):
All right, well, hey, lucy, so much great
information.
Your plane ticket will be inthe mail.
But thank you, this has beengreat.
I really appreciate your time.
And all your contactinformation will be in the show
notes so people can follow youon social media and get in touch
with you.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (26:50):
Fantastic.
Thanks so much for a greatconversation.
George Siegal (26:53):
I'd love to hear your stories good or bad, of
experiences You've had as ahomeowner.
There's a contact form in theshow notes.
Let me hear your story and youmay end up being a guest on an
upcoming episode.
Thanks again for listeningtoday.
See you next time.
Look around your house and think for a minute.
Do you have too much stuff?
Does your house feel cluttered?
Do your friends think you are acandidate for hoarders?
Well, there's a way you can fixthis.
My guest today is Lucy MilliganWahl.
She's the founder of LMW edits,a boutique professional
organizing company based in SanFrancisco.
You don't have to throw up yourarms and give up surrounded by
(00:23):
all that mess.
After you hear what Lucy has tosay, you'll want to dive right
in and create some space.
I'm George Siegal and this isHome Owners Be Aware the podcast
that teaches you everything youneed to know about being a
homeowner.
Lucy, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (00:42):
Thank you for having me.
I am happy to be here.
George Siegal (00:44):
All right now as I look over what you do and I
find it fascinating because wecould do this entire podcast
just on the mess in my house andhow.
I would need you Explain topeople exactly what your role is
and how you help them with whatyou do.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (01:00):
Absolutely so what I do is professional
organizing and basically I takecare of stuff, so I make sure
that the stuff in your house isthe right stuff, it's the stuff
that you need, and you can findthat stuff quickly and easily,
so you can stop worrying aboutthe stuff and just get on with
the rest of your life.
George Siegal (01:16):
Yeah, I probably spend half my time finding
things and it's such a waste oftime.
So let's go through sometypical things and we'll kind of
solve my problems.
It'll be like a freeconsultation, but I think most
people have this problem as well.
My office has got papersstacked all over the place
because I moved from one part ofthe house to the other, so I
(01:38):
have things that aren't filedyet, things that are sitting on
desks and I don't look like ahoarder, but it's really
unorganized and hard to findthings.
How do I even begin to tacklesomething like that?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (01:49):
Yeah, a lot of people struggle with paper.
We're at this funny time insociety where everything is
moving to digital and yet westill can't quite shake the need
to have some paperdocumentation.
Obviously, it's differentdepending on what work you do,
what kind of like personalsituation you have with like
estates and property andwhatever, but in general, I
(02:10):
apply a very strong index ofsuspicion to any paper
whatsoever.
When I'm working with somebodyon organizing documents, my
first assumption is that weprobably don't need most of it,
because the only reason to keepa piece of paper is because you
will need it again, which soundsreally basic, right, like
that's super basic.
But think about what you keep interms of what you file.
(02:32):
Like, did you file it becauseyou're like okay, I know I'm
gonna need this again.
It's gonna be this specificsituation.
Here's where I'm gonna look, orare you like?
I know this seems kind ofimportant, I guess I should file
it.
And so, with my clients, I'mdrilling down to why do we need
this, exactly what for?
And then where do we store it?
How do we file it so that youcan find it again when that
(02:54):
occasion comes?
George Siegal (02:55):
Yeah, now give me an example, like if a trade
comes out, a plumber comes outor somebody installs shelves or
somebody puts something in theyard, I just tend to have that
receipt from them somewhere andokay, so why do I need that?
Well, three years from now, orthree years ago when I had that
person here, now I need themagain.
So I'm just I'm at a loss ofhow I would even move forward to
(03:17):
get started tackling this.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (03:19):
Yeah, absolutely so.
For someone like you it'ssounding like the reason you
need that information is it'scontact info.
So then I'd like just rip theirbusiness card off the off the
invoice or whatever, and have afolder that just says home
professionals I like.
There it is, and then whenyou're looking for a project
you're like all right, there'sthe plumber I use, there's the
(03:39):
contractor I use perfect.
I mean, obviously, if somethingwas done to improve your home
that you aren't going to takewith you and you own your home
you do want to keep the wholeinvoice because that's that's
sort of like helpful, helpfulfor evaluation of your home.
But if you rent or it'ssomething you can take with you,
or it's just a basic repair,you don't actually need to keep
the whole invoice.
George Siegal (03:59):
Okay now another thing I see when we walk our
dogs around the neighborhood issome people when they open their
garage, it looks like it's justa thing of beauty organized,
not trash everywhere.
And then you see garages wherethey look like they're an
episode of hoarders, where thereis stuff everywhere.
What do you do about that?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (04:24):
With garages they become a dumping ground,
right, like that's just like Idon't know where to put it, I'm
just going to shove it in thegarage basements, attics, also
similar.
And so when I'm working on agarage with somebody, it's about
what in here do we actuallyneed?
I mean, it's back to that right.
And a lot of times in garagesyou will find items left over
(04:44):
from a previous activity, aprevious home, someone who used
to live in the home and doesn'tanymore, and they just kind of
make their way into the garageby default.
And so just asking the simplequestions of like do you still
ski, for example?
And in this case, this casehappens to me a lot because I
live in San Francisco, we haveaccess to mountains.
(05:05):
There are a lot of people whoski.
I myself am a skier and I cantell when they don't actually
ski anymore because I know howold those skis are.
So there's a little bit ofinsider info I have about
certain activities.
It can be the same with campinggear, like is this camping gear
and good enough repair that youcould use it tomorrow?
George Siegal (05:24):
Yeah, so if you still have wooden skis in your
garage, that's probably right.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (05:28):
Well, hang those suckers up.
It's great decor.
George Siegal (05:30):
Yeah, now another one.
Okay, in a laundry room itseems like screws, bolts,
hardware, stuff all gets thrownin drawers and all of a sudden
you've got these drawers full ofstuff and I'm always afraid to
throw something out because thenI'm afraid something's going to
break.
And I'm going to have thatflashback and going oh, I saw
where that bolt was.
What would you do with all thatstuff?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (05:51):
So this is a place where self knowledge is
really helpful.
So I have some clients who arequite handy.
They do a lot of their projectsthemselves and they know they
know hardware well enough thatif we do like little drawers of
different kinds of sizes ofscrews and nails and stuff,
that's going to be helpful tothem.
For someone like me who's notespecially handy, having a bunch
(06:16):
of different sizes of screws isactually not going to help me
because I don't actually knowwhat I'm looking for.
So it's important to know, like, where your capabilities lie
and where it's just not going tohappen.
So, for example, say you puttogether a shelving unit and it
comes with all the stuff to putit together and there's like an
Allen wrench and some screws andthey always give you some extra
and the temptation is to keepthat extra.
(06:39):
And my question is is theshelving unit really going to
ever need those things?
And if it does, are you goingto fix it or are you probably
just going to buy a new one?
And that's an uncomfortablequestion to ask, because just
buying a new one sounds kind ofwasteful to some people and it
can sound like that's not thecorrect decision.
(07:01):
But it's important to berealistic and know like, if I'm
in a jam and this thing fallsapart, what am I actually going
to do and what am I actuallygoing to need on hand?
George Siegal (07:11):
Okay, now it's interesting.
Now I also have a lot ofbroadcast equipment and I know
this.
But it happens to my wife, ithappens to my kids.
We all end up with these olderplugs, things that used to
connect stuff.
So if I open my closet, there'sprobably 20 plugs in there and
cables and wires and all thisstuff and my fear again is
throwing that out.
And then I go gosh, I need todo something with my computer
and I'm missing cable numberseven that has this and this and
(07:35):
this.
What do you do in that case?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (07:37):
So I run into this a lot.
Everybody's got all kinds ofplugs and wires and stuff, even
if they're not doingbroadcasting.
And what I do is I separate itall out and we go through it
individually and I ask thequestion of what is this for?
And you, being a broadcastingprofessional, you probably know
what everything is for.
And once we separate out theindividual pieces, it becomes a
lot clearer which ones youactually need, which ones you
(07:59):
don't.
What we do with our brains iswe chunk.
So it's like when you memorizea phone number, you chunk the
sections of the phone number.
When you see a pile of wires,you chunk that as one pile and
you sort of tell yourself Ieither keep the whole pile or I
get rid of the whole pile.
And my job is to pick it apartand figure out what pieces you
need and what pieces you don't.
George Siegal (08:22):
I need to get on that too, boy.
It sounds like I got a lot todo.
Now.
A lot of people have olderparents and the parents are
living their lives, but they'renot necessarily thinking of the
day that they're not around andall that stuff is just left
behind, and then you've leftyour children with just way too
many things to make toughdecisions.
The first thing I would say ishow can parents make it easier
(08:44):
for their children, or shouldthey not even bother?
And it's just the kids faultwhen that tragic or sad day
happens.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (08:50):
You know, there's a wonderful book that
you may have heard of that Ithink it will help people think
about this and it's from theperspective of someone going
through this herself.
It's called the Gentle Art ofSwedish Deaf Cleaning and it is
written by an elderly woman whohas done this process herself
and she sort of lays out notonly how you do it but why you
(09:12):
do it.
And I think it's so helpfulbecause, you know, coming from
me telling a senior person thatthey need to clean out their
stuff so they don't burn theirchildren that can be a little
presumptuous sounding, because Imyself have never been in their
shoes.
I don't know what that's like,and I try to greet moments like
this, where things can be veryemotional, with a lot of empathy
and a lot of understanding.
And so I think if you knowsomeone who's thinking about
(09:34):
should I downsize, should I not?
Should I get rid of stuff,should I not?
This book can be helpfulbecause it really puts it in
context in a way that's likefrom someone who's been through
this experience.
I generally think if someone isolder and they're thinking about
this and they're thinking aboutwhat they're going to do with
all of their stuff, you'realready on the right track.
You're already thinking intothe future about what's what
(09:57):
life is going to be like foryour children, and I think
that's a huge gift.
And I do believe that the moreyou can do now to save your kids
from having to go through allthe stuff, the better it is,
because what we have is sort ofthe sandwich generation right,
the people who have bothchildren young children to
manage and senior parents tomanage, and you know these
people are trying to raise theirkids.
(10:17):
They don't necessarily havebandwidth in their lives to take
on the project of dealing witha deceased parents, lifetime of
belongings and many people do,and that's that's great.
But from my perspective, itwould be an incredible gift to
not force your kids to do that.
George Siegal (10:37):
Yeah, we can also turn that completely around.
So because I experienced thiswhen my when my father passed
away is you go into their closetand you just don't even know
where to start.
I saw it with my dad when hismother passed away, where he was
just sitting in her housesurrounded by all this stuff,
just paralyzed, not knowing whatto do and how to even approach
something like that.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (10:56):
Yeah, it's really difficult because when
you think about things, trulyit's just stuff.
The memories are in our brainsand our hearts.
They're not in the things, andso once the person to whom these
things are attached is gone,the things tend to lose a lot of
meaning, especially if youdidn't have the context
previously.
So, again, for someone who'sthinking about what they're
(11:17):
leaving behind, to at least sitdown and have some conversations
of like this is important.
This is not, don't worry aboutit, at least give people the lay
of the land.
George Siegal (11:27):
Yeah, I think one of the things that makes that
more difficult is then when youhear stories about somebody that
just cleans out everything, andthen there's some garage sale
where some valuable paintingends up being discovered that
you had no idea about, andthere's also that fear of giving
away some kind of familyheirloom or something of value
that then you'll never get back.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (11:46):
Yeah, and I think that's where the value of
working with professionals comesin.
I don't specialize in estateclear outs myself.
There are many organizers whodo, and they can really help a
family go through stuff andidentify what might have some
value and what is just kind ofnot worth their time to deal
with.
And so I think worrying aboutsomething of value not being
(12:10):
capitalized on can be veryparalyzing.
And when it comes to gettingrid of things that might have
value, even if it's not in adownsizing or an estate
situation, I encourage myclients to think about.
You know, the trade-offs.
There's always a trade-off whenit comes to stuff.
If you're going to keep a bunchof stuff in case it has value,
that has a cost.
It has the cost of you storingthe stuff, you cleaning the
(12:33):
stuff, you taking care of thestuff.
There's no costless alternative.
So a lot of what I talk aboutwith my clients is okay, you can
keep that, but let's talk aboutwhat consequence that has for
your goals, for the project.
George Siegal (12:45):
Yeah, I think it's things to like.
It could be jewelry, it couldbe baseball cards, it could be
Some kind of statue or figurinethat you just don't know about.
There's that fear of my gosh.
This.
This could be worth a fortune,and here I just gave it away.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (13:02):
Yeah, there's a really quick and easy
way to at least get a little bitof a handle on whether
something has value, especiallyif you know what it is.
Go on eBay, search for thatitem and click on sold Not what
people are listening for peoplewhat it actually sold for, and
that will give you at least aquick and dirty like okay, this
has some value.
Like I'm sold for twenty fivebucks, alright, whatever.
George Siegal (13:24):
Okay, now here's another problem.
Again, this one's mine, but I'msure a lot of people can relate
to it.
I have a seventeen year old anda thirteen year old, and a few
weeks ago they decided to swaprooms.
Oh yeah, just seeing what eachkid took out of their room and
move to the other room exposedhow they had way too many things
, and it's tough to get yourkids to get rid of things.
(13:47):
How do parents tackle that?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (13:50):
So I actually work with teenagers
quite a bit and I really enjoyit because I teach will tell you
what's up, they will be reallystraight up with you, they'll be
super honest and we have somereally great conversations.
And I love working with teensto, because it's a chance to set
them up for success before theysort of calcify their ideas of
what, like adult life should be.
(14:10):
But it's it's working throughthe process with a goal in mind,
which is the same way approachany.
Any a project for an adult islike alright, what kind of space
do you want to live in, whatkind of life do you want?
And then going through thestuff in the space and does this
stuff support that or does ittake away from that?
And I think sometimes we get ina mind frame where it's just
(14:33):
like hey, kid, you got to cleanyour room.
Like just go clean your room,just deal with it.
But taking a step back and sortof walking them through the
whole process can be a lot more.
You have a lot better resultsin the end and you're in your
serve.
You're respecting theirautonomy, right like you're
empowering them to makedecisions about their space
instead of like go clean yourroom.
George Siegal (14:55):
Well, you know this, it's tough and I think,
especially with teenage girls.
My daughter on her bathroomcounter, and that's one of the
reasons they switch, becausethis room had a bigger bathroom.
There's products all on thecounter, all in the shower, all
under the sink.
I mean I would think you needtwo or three things.
I wouldn't think you would needtwo hundred things.
So getting kids to pair thatstuff down is like it's pulling,
(15:15):
like pulling teeth.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (15:18):
Yeah, we actually do a lot of projects
like that.
My my organizing assistant thatworks with me is a big makeup
and skincare person herself, andso I often have her do that job
With with teen girls, becausethey can have a good
conversation about what theproducts are, what use they have
, and I think it's it's it'shelping them figure out what's
part of the daily routine,what's part of the party, like
special day routine, and thenwhat do I actually not need?
(15:39):
Because I tried it, I don'tlike it, the color doesn't work
for me.
These are the conversationsthat we have, and I think people
try and skip over that part.
They try to just be like, hey,get rid of it all.
But we have to have theconversation to understand what
we want to get rid of and why.
Now, it's part of working withclients once you've helped them
get rid of a lot of stuff.
George Siegal (16:01):
They are on kind of a maintenance program, so
when new stuff comes in theyknow how to avoid getting to
where they were when they had toget rid of all of it.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (16:09):
So I will say I appointed pride is that I
have very few recurring clients.
My my structure of the way Iwork is to set someone up with a
system that they can maintainso that even if they fall off
the wagon a little bit, thestructure is still there and
they can come back to it ontheir own time.
I get return clients whenpeople are repurposing a space.
For example, say, we organize ahome office and now they're
(16:32):
having a baby and that needs tobe a baby's room will do that.
But I try to avoid amaintenance program because I
don't want people to becomedependent on me.
I don't think that'sparticularly healthy.
I want, I want to know that Ihave taught them the skills that
they need and they can comeback to that whenever they want
to.
George Siegal (16:48):
You have an example that you can share of
maybe the worst situation youever walked into.
Where you're going.
Oh my god, this, this is justgoing to be difficult.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (16:57):
So I will say I I don't take on any, any
job that could be classified asabove level one.
Hoarding.
There is a there is a clutterand disorganization scale that
goes from one to five.
I don't do anything above alevel one.
Level one is sort of likeclutter in multiple rooms, which
Most people have, honestly, sowe're all a little bit harder
(17:17):
inside.
That's not the kind of work Ido.
I know that about myself.
I refer to other organizersthat said, I think what is what
is very difficult and I reallyTry to screen for this in
advance if someone is notwilling to change how they do
things, it is not possible tohelp them get organized, because
just doing more of what you didbefore Is not going to get you
(17:41):
different results.
So if someone is saying I wantyou to come in and wave a magic,
want to make it all good, butI'm not going to change a single
thing about the way I operate,I can't help them.
George Siegal (17:51):
I imagine minimalists are bad for your
business.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (17:55):
Minimalists are great, because it's hard to
become a minimalist.
People need a lot of help andI've actually had multiple
clients who have said I want tobecome a minimalist and then, in
the process of working towardsit, realize they're not ready,
it's not for them.
I had a client who stated goalwas to become a minimalist and
it was a very tightly packed,clean, nice but tightly packed
(18:17):
space and so and we kept workingthrough it and this client was
just not willing to get rid ofanything, like I said, not
willing to change.
And so finally I had a brainwave.
I was like let's just see ifthis is what you really want.
So I picked a corner of thespace, we pulled everything out
of it and I said we're going toadd back things one at a time
until you decide that's theminimalist look you're going for
(18:39):
.
So we did that, added back alot more stuff than I would
personally define as minimalism,but that's fine, it's all the
clients choice.
And then I said, ok, now turnaround and see how much stuff is
left that you didn't add back.
That was there before.
It was quite a bit.
And the client was reallystunned and also realized that
(18:59):
they were not ready.
They could not do it.
This was not going to bepossible for the rest of the
space, and so it was a failure.
But I treated it as a success,because I was able to help the
client understand how, or hownot, they were able to come to
the goal.
George Siegal (19:13):
That's interesting.
I think anybody that's evergone house hunting knows, when
you walk into a house, that theyreally want to sell it and it's
staged to show so it looks likethere's a lot of room.
And then you walk into somehouses that look very lived in,
where there's stuff everywhereand it's hard to see it the same
way.
So it even hurts your value.
(19:34):
If you're selling your house,you really want it thinned out,
don't you?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (19:38):
Yes, you want it as little as possible
and it sounds people have a hardtime with this because it
sounds like the realtor istelling you to get rid of your
personality and get rid of whatmeans something to you.
But in fact, selling a house isa financial transaction.
It's not about you, it's notabout your family, it's not
(19:58):
about the memories and thewonderful times you had in this
space.
It's about the financialtransaction and getting the most
value out of it that you can.
So if you're able to take yourown identity out of the process
and just say what do I have todo to maximize value in this
transaction, that reframe canreally help.
George Siegal (20:14):
Okay, let's come back to my problem once more
time.
One more time, just so I cancome away something with
something here.
So my office you see thisinteresting set behind me, which
, which is it is organized.
There's, there's a method tothe madness, but my desk has all
these papers.
Do I just start one at a timeand just start whittling away at
it?
So I'm, I'm just thinning thatout.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (20:34):
The bad news is it does take time and it has
to be gone through step by step.
I I am often in the position oftelling people that there are
no shortcuts.
The fact is, there's a wholepattern that got you here and
you have to understand thatpattern to be able to move
forward.
And I often find myself sayingyou're, you're, cluttered.
Your stuff tells you a story.
It tells you a story about thechoices you make, the things
(20:56):
that are important to you, howyou live life on a daily basis,
and when you can understand thatstory, then you're in a
position to possibly change thepieces of it that aren't working
for you.
But if you don't know what'sgoing on and if you just either
dump everything or leaveeverything, you're not really
understanding what has led youto this place and for people
that are tackling a whole house.
George Siegal (21:18):
Where's a good place to start?
Is there a place where you kindof start here and then work
your way through?
Do you just pick what you thinkis the worst?
Start with that.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (21:25):
I I have two ways that I start.
For a client who is reallyMotivated and they want some
results fast, I pick the spotthat they use the most so that
it will make them biggestimmediate impact on their daily
life.
If I'm working with someone whois more fearful of the process,
not sure it's gonna work forthem, I start with something
(21:48):
small, really small like, maybeeven just like a corner of a
room, just so that they can feellike, oh, I understand how this
works, this is gonna work forme.
Now I'm ready to tacklesomething a little bit larger.
So it sort of depends on whatenergy you're coming into the
project with.
George Siegal (22:02):
Okay, now what should it typically and I know
it's probably different in everypart of the country to have
somebody, a professional, comein and help you tackle this?
Is there a range of what peoplecan understand that it might
cost them?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (22:12):
There is a range and it of course it
depends on what market you're in.
It also depends on howexperienced the organizer You're
working with is.
You can find somebody on taskrabbit for 25 bucks an hour.
You are going to get a 25 bucksan hour Experience.
I'm sure that task right personis wonderful and they're gonna
do their best for you, but theydon't have the years of
experience and working withmultiple types of clients as I.
(22:33):
As I say to people, I have alot of data.
I've been doing this for 10years, so I have a lot of
clients.
I have a lot of experiencesthat I can give people a better
idea of what happens when theymake certain decisions.
Someone who just started out,who doesn't do this full-time.
They just have less data, lessexperience.
But yeah, in sort of in majorSimon San Francisco major market
, you're probably looking ataround a hundred to two hundred
(22:55):
dollars an hour.
If you're in a smaller market,you're looking at maybe fifty,
seventy five an hour.
It really depends on on whereyou are and how much experience
you want your organizer to have.
George Siegal (23:05):
Okay, now that sounds like you could get
expensive.
So what?
How much time is typicallyneeded?
So you know, if I want to thinstuff out of my house, am I
looking to I have to spendthousands of dollars, or is it?
After three or four hours,we're gonna have made a pretty
good dent in everything.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (23:19):
Right.
So my general estimate todeclutter a room is between four
and eight hours and I that is alot.
I and again I'm I'm sort ofgiving the maximum full service
estimate because I work withvery busy Professionals and
their families.
They're willing to throw moneyat this problem.
They don't have the time to sitdown and do it all themselves.
(23:40):
They need me to come andaccelerate the process.
There are organizers who don'tcharge as much, who have a
little bit of a differentperspective on the time it takes
to declutter, but I am verythorough so I'm getting through
absolutely everything.
George Siegal (23:53):
If I could just win the darn lottery, I'd fly
you in.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (23:56):
You're right .
George Siegal (23:57):
That's something that I'm certainly gonna think
about.
So let's give people a takeawayhere.
I have a mess in my house and Iwant to get going.
I want to do something positive.
Tell me the first thing Ishould do.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (24:10):
So the first thing is to pick a small
defined area, pull everythingout of it and decide what you're
gonna keep.
So I'm talking about like onedrawer, one shelf, just one
little thing, because if you tryto tackle too much at once, it
becomes super overwhelming andthen you kind of quit halfway
through.
And quitting halfway through issometimes even worse than
starting, because you have abigger mess than you started out
with.
(24:30):
So if, especially if you'regonna tackle this on your own, I
would take a little piece bylittle piece.
The I'm gonna organize my wholehouse in one weekend Doesn't
have a good, a good success rate.
George Siegal (24:45):
Yeah, and I think if people could just get up to
speed with this then if theyever decide to relocate or they
want to do things, they're not,you know, even even when you
move.
Somebody once told me if youhave a box that you haven't
opened in a certain amount oftime, just get rid of it once
you've gotten there, becauseyou're you're probably never
gonna use it.
What do you think about that?
Lucy Milligan Wahl (25:03):
Yes, I absolutely agree and I would say
a corollary, which is theexperience of throwing something
out and the experience ofputting it in a box in the
garage are functionally the sameDay today.
You're not looking at it, it'snot part of your life, it's not
there.
So if the, if, the, if theimpulse says I'm gonna box this
up and leave it for later, Iwould examine that impulse.
George Siegal (25:27):
Well, you've motivated me.
I'm gonna start making a dentin this office today, because I.
Drive me crazy and I alwaysfeel like I just didn't complete
something, and then I getreally OCD about what you know.
It's just then and everythingjust completely unravels.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (25:41):
Yeah, and I always tell people to like don't
, don't worry about it beingperfect, don't worry about
getting it all done at once.
Every little step you make is astep in the right direction.
And With with stuff likeorganizing, we often let perfect
be the enemy of the good and itdoesn't really help.
George Siegal (25:58):
Yeah, so so with the office, a lot of electronic,
a lot of files, maybe just scanstuff and and just have it all
electronic and don't just don'teven file the paper.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (26:07):
Absolutely.
And and then, before you scan,do I even need to scan this?
Because back to trade-offsscanning is not costless, it
takes your time and scan isactually kind of slow, unless
you're outsourcing it completely, in which case then there's a
monetary cost there as well.
So, even with digitizing,keeping in mind, like, what do I
, what information do I actuallyneed and I can't find anywhere
(26:29):
else, and what information do Inot really need at all and I
don't need to scan?
George Siegal (26:33):
All right, well, hey, lucy, so much great
information.
Your plane ticket will be inthe mail.
But thank you, this has beengreat.
I really appreciate your time.
And all your contactinformation will be in the show
notes so people can follow youon social media and get in touch
with you.
Lucy Milligan Wahl (26:50):
Fantastic.
Thanks so much for a greatconversation.
George Siegal (26:53):
I'd love to hear your stories good or bad, of
experiences You've had as ahomeowner.
There's a contact form in theshow notes.
Let me hear your story and youmay end up being a guest on an
upcoming episode.
Thanks again for listeningtoday.
See you next time.
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