October 10, 2024 • 26 mins
How can we guide our children to understand and appreciate the diverse world around them through literature? Join us as we explore this compelling question with Amber, diving into the transformative power of stories. From picture books introducing toddlers to diverse characters to historical narratives for elementary learners, we discuss how literature serves as both a window and a mirror, allowing young minds to see themselves and understand others. By fostering an inclusive literary environment, we lay the groundwork for empathy and awareness in our children's formative years.
Moving into more complex conversations, we address the importance of engaging older children and teens with narratives that challenge and educate. Delve into the world of memoirs, biographies, and contemporary fiction that confront societal issues, helping young readers become active participants in creating positive change. Alongside, we emphasize the importance of being an "askable" parent, creating an environment where any topic is open for discussion. Learn about practical tools, like “car questions,” that can help maintain open communication and ensure children feel heard and supported.
In the final segment, we turn our focus to empowering parents through inclusive historical education. By encouraging homeschooling parents to embrace an ongoing journey of learning, we offer resources and support to make history truthful and enriching. Our mission at Woke Homeschooling Inc. is to provide an inclusive curriculum that engages both parents and children in a shared learning experience. Join us as we navigate these complexities and equip our children with the understanding and respect necessary to thrive in a diverse world.
For links and the transcript, visit wokehomeschooling.com/podcast
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Delina (00:00):
We want to talk to our kids about important and
sensitive subjects.
We want them to know and beable to process hard history.
But how do we know what they'reready for?
How can books help us broachthese topics?
Welcome to Homeschool Yourself.
My name is Delina and I am yourhost In this episode.
Amber and I talk about Chapter5 in her book, a Place to Belong
(00:22):
.
Amber expounds on the conceptof windows and mirrors and talks
about how to be mindful of yourchild's age and stage so that
they can understand context andnot misrepresent the messages
about themselves and others thatwe're trying to teach them.
Take a listen, okay, so youhave these stages still talking
(00:43):
about hard history, these stagesof childhood that will help
guide us on what is appropriatefor each stage.
Will you help us with that?
You start with the early years.
Amber (00:56):
Yeah, sure.
So in the early years, a lotthis is your toddlers and
preschoolers and the books thatyour goal is to introduce them
to characters and people andbooks from diverse backgrounds,
Because much of what thechildren are assimilating at
this age it comes fromillustrations and picture books
(01:16):
and you want to make sure thatthey're featuring and you want
to normalize characters withvarious skin tones and hair
textures and and you want tovalidate and discuss their
observations that children makeabout appearance.
We've always in the past hushedthem.
Don't say that.
You're not supposed to say that.
But no, yeah, okay, did you say, hold on.
(01:37):
No, I said, don't notice that.
Oh, yes, exactly, don't notice,right.
And so it's like.
So if she says to mommy she hasbig hair like me, or that boy
has very, very dark skin, yes, Imean he does, and let's talk
about that.
And what does that mean?
So children at that age, theyreally enjoy hearing the same
stories repeatedly and theymight even start to like kind of
(02:00):
memorize or read along with you, kind of memorize or read along
with you.
And you have to make sure thatthe diverse books are just as
readily available as thosefeaturing white children and
animals and inanimate objects,because that's most of what's
out there.
So you're looking for theracial diversity, the differing
abilities, and it's really nicewhen you can find stories that
(02:21):
those things are taking placewithout that overtly being the
book's topic, yeah, so again,we're looking to normalize that.
We're trying to celebratedifferences without judgment and
the key message for that agegroup is not everybody's like me
and that's cool.
So that's what.
That's what we're looking for.
(02:41):
Not everybody like me.
That's for stage one, that'sstage one.
So stage two is your earlyelementary.
So kind of think kindergartento third grade and these books
are going to start to reallyprogress as your children mature
.
So it's not that we're tryingto burden them with every single
historical truth known to man,but we do want to allow them the
(03:01):
opportunity to journey throughtheir books and develop an
understanding of harsh realitiesover time.
So you don't want to let fearthis is where really fear starts
to really kick in with people.
You don't want to let that fearor the desire to protect your
child's innocence prevent youfrom sharing hard history or
from initiating difficultconversations when appropriate.
(03:24):
So you want to keep in mindalso something that I learned
younger siblings often movealong faster than firstborns
because they're generallyexposed to more at an earlier
age.
They're hearing theconversations with their
siblings and so you'll find that, as you know, if you have more
than one child, this stage isgoing to ramp up faster than
(03:44):
probably it did with your firstkid.
So when children become schoolage, they can continue reading
what they've been reading.
But you want to layer on someadditional types of books.
So one type of book would befolktales, fairy tales and tall
tales featuring characters ofcolor from various cultures, and
those can be retellings.
A lot of those now that areavailable are retellings from
(04:06):
Hans Christian Andersen and theBrothers Grimm.
Those are good.
But also I'm looking for thoseoriginal stories that are
original to those culturesbecause they have their own
stories.
So just retelling the storywith a, you know, a colorful
character is one thing, but alsowe have we all have our own
stories.
So these magical tales, thosewill be like your tales of
(04:28):
intrigue and friendship andjustification for the
inexplicable and enchantedadventures and all of those.
But no matter what the subjector the storyteller, they should
include these faces of color andpeople moving through imaginary
places and spaces, these spacesof color and people moving
through imaginary places andspaces.
You'll also want to includepicture books featuring modern
(04:48):
children and families fromdifferent ethnicities, cultures
and countries.
So those are books of not justold, of how it was, but like how
they're living today, becausemost children savor
opportunities to meet otherchildren in their books.
I love books like this, but youhave to be careful because you
don't want to make it seem likeother people are all exotic and
(05:13):
foreign and sometimes thosebooks can be a little bit trite
like that.
So I like to introduce engaginggeography books about other
regions of the world and withinthe regions within our own
country.
It kind of increases ourchild's sense of place.
The third type of book for thatage group would be historical
picture books and biographieshighlighting the lives,
(05:35):
specifically the lives of womenand people of color.
So I don't even need to gothrough the importance of that.
But now you're getting into thenonfiction and picture books.
Those are just going to carrythrough all the way.
I don't think you ever outgrowpicture books, in my opinion.
And the last one would bechapter books featuring and
including BIPOC.
So you know, these would bebooks that bring about key
(06:02):
messages, that take you fromthat littles category to a more
mature thought that people notonly look different than me, but
they live differently anddespite our differences we still
have a lot in common.
And here's a key, importantfact you know people who are
different from me.
They also love their familiesand have hopes and dreams and
(06:24):
like to have fun.
And they should know at thistime that historically some
people treated othersdifferently, unfairly or
maliciously, just because of howthey look, and that sometimes
it still happens today and theyshould be able to understand the
terms prejudice and racism andand that that they're both wrong
(06:45):
and so they're not too littleto understand those.
Those are actually foundationalthoughts and so from there they
can spring into the lateelementary years and it's more
of the same right Every stepyou're building.
So they're still reading thosesame types of books, but now
you're you're including morediverse, diverse poetry books
(07:06):
and short stories, biographiesand historical fiction.
And I think that you know someparents feel that they have a
hard time in this age becausethe kids are going from learning
to read Now they're reading tolearn, and sometimes they only
are interested in kind of moreof the bubble gum topics and not
(07:27):
some of these richer topics.
Yeah, and I think that that'sokay.
Um, some kids will be kids,different kids will be attracted
to different things, but that'swhere your read come in, so the
kids may choose what they readin their own time, but you
choose the family read aloud,and that's where you can fill
gaps and holes that you seewithin your own family.
And your key messages for youknow, for late elementary are
(07:49):
that indigenous and Africanpeople had a long, rich history
of civilization, traditions andculture well before Europeans
came to America and took theland and established the
Atlantic slave trade, like therewas like a whole lot that
happened before that.
You want your child to be ableto say I understand racism, I
(08:09):
understand how to activelyresist it and how to handle
myself when I experience it orwitness it, because they will.
And we need to give themlanguage for those complicated
feelings that they willexperience when they do witness
it.
And an important fact for thatage is that they know that
people are not all good or allbad, but they are a mix of both.
(08:31):
Yeah, they have to be able tolike developmentally.
Delina (08:35):
That's when they start to understand nuance.
Before that, everything is likeblack and white.
Black and white.
Amber (08:40):
Yes, that's right, and yeah, you're wanting.
That's where the ageappropriateness comes in.
You know when people aretalking about age appropriate,
to me it's more how the story istold versus whether the story
is told.
Oh, that's good.
So, yeah, so you just move onthere from middle school and
here.
You know your kids aretypically gonna start outpacing
you.
You're not gonna be able toread everything that they read
(09:02):
ahead of time, and that's okay.
They are growing as readers, aslearners.
You want them to start toreally dig deeply into the joys
and tensions that are framedwithin powerful literary mirrors
and windows.
And if you have a concern abouta book's content or maturity
level, you want to rely onin-depth, like kind of book
(09:27):
summaries and reviews.
But this is why being incommunity is important.
I need to be able to say oh,delina, I'm thinking about this
book for my kids.
What do you think?
I mean, we've had theseconversations before in real
life right, because I can't knowall the things, you can't know
all the things, but being incommunity as parents, we can
help each other.
It's just like how I would geta book you know recommended for
(09:48):
myself.
A friend will tell me Ooh, you,you can't miss this, you got to
get this, or like you can skipthat.
It's the same thing for ourkids, um, and ideally our middle
schoolers will begin thinkingum.
My parents and I speak openlyand frequently about many issues
in society, um, and I enjoylearning more about the world
around me.
I like reading books with kidswho are different than me,
(10:09):
because it helps me understandwhat life is like for different
people, and the stories are justso good.
Like, you want them to enjoy it, so you have to choose your
books and your book list foryour children wisely.
They should be saying I try toget to know lots of different
types of people and I genuinelyenjoy and appreciate friendship
with others.
And don't abandon your readalouds at this age.
(10:32):
A lot of times people are likeoh, my kids are in middle school
, I don't have to read aloudanymore.
Keep those read alouds, thosefamily read alouds, going.
They're hard to introduce at ahigher age, but if you've always
done it and you keep doing it,they won't think anything of it.
Delina (10:44):
It's awesome because it's like watching a movie
together, but you know, takingtwo weeks to watch right's like
you're all into the story.
Amber (10:54):
It's, it's, yeah, it makes for a lot of family jokes,
like inside jokes and likereferences and kind of things we
say under our breath like, ohgosh, here we go, you know, and
we'll all kind of giggle becausewe all know what what's
happening.
Um, and you know, as middleschoolers walk away and they're
starting to head into theirteenage years, what we're
(11:14):
looking for them to feel is that, for them to understand that
there are vibrant communities ofcolor worldwide, full of
inspired, talented people, butthe history of colonialism and
racism has impacted today'scross-cultural relationships.
It's not just something thathappened long ago.
There is an impact for todayand we need them to understand
(11:38):
that there's a rich history ofthe immigrant experience in our
country, including thecontributions that they've made
and the hardships that they'veendured and that's not just the
Western European immigrants, butall across the world and also
that they're starting to lookglobally and outwardly more, so
that they can say that some ofthe dynamics that I'm noticing
(12:00):
impacting communities of colorin my country, I'm noticing that
those are actually played outin other areas of the world as
well.
And then, finally, you have theteenage years and I'm just
entering into that area and it'sincredible.
I love it.
These children are young adultsand they're becoming young
(12:22):
adults and before we launch themout into whatever their next
thing is going to be, they needto have been exposed to mature
ideas, not Not vulgar, right?
When I say mature, I'm nottalking about vulgar ideas.
I'm talking about real,unfiltered ideas of what the
(12:42):
world is really like.
It's much safer for them toencounter that within our homes
while we're there, to discuss it, and to talk them through these
things and experiencing themtogether, than to send them out.
Talk them through these thingsand experiencing them together
than to send them out and letthem try to figure and fumble
through it on their own.
Specifically, the books thatyou know we'd be looking for to
address that type of history atthis age would be memoirs and
(13:05):
biographies by and about peopleof color and women, those
controversial landmark orhistorical novels that we may
have been avoiding in previousyears.
Now is the time they've got toread those.
They have to read those becausethey are.
It's not just about the story,it's about how that story
impacted the society, thesociety that we live in.
(13:28):
It's part of history, umcontemporary fiction that allows
teens to enter the world ofothers, so not just like these
old books.
I know homeschoolers especially.
I come from a Charlotte Masonbackground.
We love some old books, butthat's not it.
These contemporary books haveissues that children and young
adults are facing today and theyneed to be able to work through
(13:49):
some of that.
Through this kind of separationwhere there's some space
between them and the charactersin the book.
It allows them to experienceand work through things before
they encounter them in real life.
Nonfiction books by globalauthors that are not just
American authors but are globalauthors writing from their
(14:11):
perspective of their people.
And then, finally, I reallylike thematic anthologies and
collections of short stories atthis age because they are
becoming shorter on time.
Right, there's so much thatthey need to read and want to
experience and those shortstories can pack a powerful,
powerful punch.
(14:31):
So those are examples.
I mean.
Basically, that's the veryshort of it.
I guess the message for theteen years is that history is
complicated.
Announcer (14:39):
Okay.
Amber (14:39):
And we're still experiencing the complex legacy
of our country's unique freedomsand brutal past today.
And so they need to know thatthey have choices for the kind
of person that they're going tobe and how they can choose to
interact with other people, andthat not being part of the
problem is not enough.
(15:01):
That's not enough.
So they can't just not harm,they have to actually help and
be part of the solution.
It requires a level of activeinvolvement, so I think that's
what we want for our team, sothat's like a.
Very obviously in the book I gomuch more in depth, but that's
kind of where I see us going andtaking our children and, as you
(15:22):
can see it's, we're not herefor shock value or inappropriate
sharing, but that we'restarting at the beginning and
we're building the whole way.
Delina (15:31):
Yeah, I love that and along with that, so at every
stage, and we're building thewhole way, yeah, I love that,
and along with that, so at everystage, they're going to have
some hard history, some somecomplicated stuff not simplistic
stuff, stuff they're going tohave to think through and work
through in their own hearts,right.
But, like one of the the thingsthat you bring out in your book
that I love so much is justcreating a home where those
(15:56):
conversations can happen.
So it's not I'm scared to talklike I see something in a book
and I don't want mom to knowthat I'm reading this, but you
know what I mean just creatingthat environment in your home
where these conversations cancome up and they can trust that
they're going to get honestanswers.
(16:17):
So tell me a little bit abouthow to cultivate that
environment and our posturetowards hard history yeah.
Amber (16:25):
Yeah, I read some years back about this clinical
psychologist and he was a sexeducator and he said that we
should all be askable parentsand he meant that we should
always answer a child'squestions about sex whenever
they ask and I was like, okay, Iwas on board with that.
But I think it's broader thanjust sex.
(16:46):
I think that we should all beaskable parents in every aspect,
because that is part ofbelonging is feeling that there
is no topic off limits.
The people that I'm closestwith in this world are the
people that I don't have to talkvery haltingly, making sure I
(17:07):
don't say the wrong thing.
It's the people where I canjust say it, I can just ask it,
you know, without fear, withoutjudgment, and we should be those
people for our children.
So that means we have to beavailable and you know we got to
get our faces out of our phonesometimes and and and to face
and give our our eye contact andattention.
(17:28):
And if we can't engage when thechild first asks us, I always
say put it in your calendar likean alarm because you want to
tell them.
I can't talk to you about thisright now but this evening when
I get back probably around seven, 30, let's talk about this.
And then you got to put analarm because you'll forget.
And I always circle back and say, okay, I really want to get
back to what you asked meearlier.
(17:49):
I was running out the door butyeah, I'm here, let's talk about
that.
You have to give youngpermission, young children
permission to wait.
So by being an askable parent,trust me on this you will raise
children who feel verycomfortable asking you all of
their questions, and that'sgreat, that's what you want.
But you have to train them thatthere's a time and place.
(18:10):
And so for me, we talk aboutcar questions.
So a car question means you sawsomething while we were walking
around in Target and youralarms went off.
Something is not computing andyou want to talk about it.
While we're standing in Targetis not the time to talk about
that.
It's a car question, and youcan just tell me I have a car
(18:30):
question and they don't evenhave to tell me because I saw
what they saw, I love it.
Delina (18:34):
I love code words.
Amber (18:35):
Yes, we have a car question.
I saw what they saw and Ialready know usually what their
question is going to be andthat's okay and that's partially
.
The car question is partiallyso.
We can speak freely, so it's abenefit to us.
But really it's about makingsure that my children's right to
know or to ask doesn't overridetheir responsibility to treat
(18:56):
other people well.
So we're not going to point andwhisper and talk about people
and whatever.
But you can definitely ask meall the questions.
To be an askable parent.
You cannot freak out, so youknow if your kids are learning
about new things and you knowlet's go back.
This is just such a easyexample.
But, like Sally Hemings and mydaughter was like, so cause,
(19:17):
like easy example but, likeSally Hemings and my daughter
was like, so, cause, like?
and I was like, yeah, girl, youknow, if they're old enough to
ask, then they're old enough toget some amount of the answer
and you can judge, engage thatbased on your child's maturity.
But if she wouldn't be askingand she wasn't picking that up,
okay, so you can't freak out andbe like I'm not going to talk
(19:37):
to you about that.
Yeah, you got to do it.
And I'm like, okay, let's do it.
I always wait for them to askthe question.
I knew what she wanted to talkabout, but I didn't know how far
, because I you might tell toomuch.
Maybe they weren't asking allof that.
But you know she, she wanted toknow how the baby came and that
didn't make sense.
You know why would you?
Why would she want to be hisgirlfriend?
Announcer (19:57):
And.
Amber (19:58):
I talk about that and I think just a couple more things
about being an askable parent.
If you're going to set up thistype of environment, you want to
keep it within the family.
This is very important to me,especially in the time, this
time of social media.
Don't share your children'scontroversial questions with
other people.
One, because we've seen we'veall seen time and time again
(20:18):
that all of that stuff comesback, can come back later.
You don't know what yourchild's going to want to do or
who they're going to want to be,and they don't need a social
media trail or even yourneighbor or anybody knowing that
your kid once asked the mostbigoted question in the world or
that they said something thatwas really foul about a whole
group of people.
(20:38):
I would be mortified if my momor my sister or my husband
shared some of the things that Isay and have asked in our
private conversations.
Delina (20:50):
Amber Alexa is listening .
Amber (20:53):
Alexa can't be in this room though.
She's in the kitchen.
We keep it real in the kitchen.
You know light, lightconversations.
But yeah, that's funny, um,alexa's listening.
I gotta do that, um, but yeah,so those those things like I
want to give my kids the samerespect that I want from other
people, um, and then you have tobe willing to revisit the same
(21:15):
topic repeatedly, like you thinkyou talked about it and it's
over.
But it's not over for kids,because they're going to come
back, they're going to go away,they're going to think about it,
they're going to come back andyou can't be like we already
talked about this, because nowthey're going deeper there.
It's like a spiral, they'respiraling back around.
(21:36):
So you know, I think answer isI don't know, but we can talk
about it or let's figure it outtogether.
I definitely think don'tsugarcoat things.
Don't ever lie.
It's much better to tell them alittle bit of the truth than a
whole lot of a lie.
So if you feel in your heartyou cannot tell the whole truth
(21:57):
to their question, still tellthe truth, but just tell a thin
layer of it and build upon itlater.
Delina (22:08):
But you don't want to lose that trust.
I feel like some of this stuffis like requiring us to, because
sometimes I don't have theanswer.
A lot of times I don't have theanswer or I have a canned
answer.
Then maybe I heard or was toldand I was like I don't want to
tell them that.
So I'm like, let me, let methink through this.
So some of this is likereparenting ourselves and
(22:32):
relearning what we learned, youknow, in history rethinking
thoughts, that ways of thinkingright, rethinking our worldview.
Like so much of this, activeparenting and intentional
homeschooling is umhomeschooling ourselves oh,
(22:53):
absolutely.
I mean that's definitely true.
Amber (22:55):
I mean that I think that's part of why I always say
this is the best job in thewhole world.
I mean, like I feel like myresponsibility is to learn, you
know, alongside my child, likethat's awesome, I'm loving it,
(23:16):
think it's important that we'rewilling to update our answers.
So there have been times whereI've told my kids one thing and
I'm sorry.
I have gotten more informationsince then, I have been more
informed, my position haschanged and I can go back to
them and say hey, I know I toldyou that such and such and such,
but now that I've, you know,thought about it more, I can see
that actually this is what I'mthinking now, or I think this is
(23:39):
more true at this point, and Ithink your child will respect
that.
And, whether they do or not,that's life, right, that's real
and we want to model that.
Delina (23:50):
Amber, I love all of that wisdom that you shared with
us, just about how to do thisand not be scared about the
outcome, because the more realwe can be, the more real they'll
.
They'll grow up to be right no,I think that's true and that's
what we want, right?
Amber (24:09):
we're not trying to create this image of perfection?
Um, yes, it's.
We're not perfect History surenot perfect.
And we're not the heroes?
No, no, we're not.
And I mean, I think that theearlier that our children can
come to understand the nature ofhumanity and the ebbs and flows
(24:33):
of life, the better.
And again, the story willunfold more and more as they
grow, all the way through to theend of their days.
They will hopefully be truelifelong learners, as we both
are, and we're still putting thestory, piecing the story
together, and we just want themto be comfortable with the idea
(24:57):
of knowing.
I think that's what we we wantthem to be comfortable with the
idea of knowing.
Delina (25:02):
Right and that knowing is not fixed right Knowing
knowing grows.
Amber (25:08):
It's expansive, yeah, it's expansive, and you know
it's.
I don't usually walk aroundquoting Charlotte Mason
everywhere, but she hassomething that she wrote that
just has always kind of inspiredme and I'm paraphrasing.
But basically she said at theend of your child's education
it's not how much they know thatmatters most, it's how much
(25:29):
they care.
I love that.
I think that is to me what thewhole thing is about.
Delina (25:35):
I love that Well.
Thank you, amber.
I always love hearing Ambershare.
If you would like to hear thefirst part of this interview,
you can find it on the veryfirst episode of this podcast.
I would love to hear from you.
If you look right in yourpodcast app, whichever one you
use, there's a link to text mewith any questions that you have
.
Tell me what you want to learnmore about as you homeschool
(25:57):
yourself.
I'll get on it and find a guestto come chat about that topic.
I'm looking forward to yourtexts.
Thank you for listening.
Until next time, homeschoolyourself.
Announcer (26:07):
Homeschool Yourself is a production of Woke
Homeschooling Inc.
For show notes and links tothings mentioned in the episode,
visit wokehomeschoolingcomslash podcast.
Woke Homeschooling empowersparents to teach their kids an
inclusive, truthful history.
We invite you to visit ourwebsite and download a sample of
the history curriculum we offerfor kids.
(26:28):
Visit us atwokehomeschoolingcom.
We want to talk to our kids about important and
sensitive subjects.
We want them to know and beable to process hard history.
But how do we know what they'reready for?
How can books help us broachthese topics?
Welcome to Homeschool Yourself.
My name is Delina and I am yourhost In this episode.
Amber and I talk about Chapter5 in her book, a Place to Belong
(00:22):
.
Amber expounds on the conceptof windows and mirrors and talks
about how to be mindful of yourchild's age and stage so that
they can understand context andnot misrepresent the messages
about themselves and others thatwe're trying to teach them.
Take a listen, okay, so youhave these stages still talking
(00:43):
about hard history, these stagesof childhood that will help
guide us on what is appropriatefor each stage.
Will you help us with that?
You start with the early years.
Amber (00:56):
Yeah, sure.
So in the early years, a lotthis is your toddlers and
preschoolers and the books thatyour goal is to introduce them
to characters and people andbooks from diverse backgrounds,
Because much of what thechildren are assimilating at
this age it comes fromillustrations and picture books
(01:16):
and you want to make sure thatthey're featuring and you want
to normalize characters withvarious skin tones and hair
textures and and you want tovalidate and discuss their
observations that children makeabout appearance.
We've always in the past hushedthem.
Don't say that.
You're not supposed to say that.
But no, yeah, okay, did you say, hold on.
(01:37):
No, I said, don't notice that.
Oh, yes, exactly, don't notice,right.
And so it's like.
So if she says to mommy she hasbig hair like me, or that boy
has very, very dark skin, yes, Imean he does, and let's talk
about that.
And what does that mean?
So children at that age, theyreally enjoy hearing the same
stories repeatedly and theymight even start to like kind of
(02:00):
memorize or read along with you, kind of memorize or read along
with you.
And you have to make sure thatthe diverse books are just as
readily available as thosefeaturing white children and
animals and inanimate objects,because that's most of what's
out there.
So you're looking for theracial diversity, the differing
abilities, and it's really nicewhen you can find stories that
(02:21):
those things are taking placewithout that overtly being the
book's topic, yeah, so again,we're looking to normalize that.
We're trying to celebratedifferences without judgment and
the key message for that agegroup is not everybody's like me
and that's cool.
So that's what.
That's what we're looking for.
(02:41):
Not everybody like me.
That's for stage one, that'sstage one.
So stage two is your earlyelementary.
So kind of think kindergartento third grade and these books
are going to start to reallyprogress as your children mature
.
So it's not that we're tryingto burden them with every single
historical truth known to man,but we do want to allow them the
(03:01):
opportunity to journey throughtheir books and develop an
understanding of harsh realitiesover time.
So you don't want to let fearthis is where really fear starts
to really kick in with people.
You don't want to let that fearor the desire to protect your
child's innocence prevent youfrom sharing hard history or
from initiating difficultconversations when appropriate.
(03:24):
So you want to keep in mindalso something that I learned
younger siblings often movealong faster than firstborns
because they're generallyexposed to more at an earlier
age.
They're hearing theconversations with their
siblings and so you'll find that, as you know, if you have more
than one child, this stage isgoing to ramp up faster than
(03:44):
probably it did with your firstkid.
So when children become schoolage, they can continue reading
what they've been reading.
But you want to layer on someadditional types of books.
So one type of book would befolktales, fairy tales and tall
tales featuring characters ofcolor from various cultures, and
those can be retellings.
A lot of those now that areavailable are retellings from
(04:06):
Hans Christian Andersen and theBrothers Grimm.
Those are good.
But also I'm looking for thoseoriginal stories that are
original to those culturesbecause they have their own
stories.
So just retelling the storywith a, you know, a colorful
character is one thing, but alsowe have we all have our own
stories.
So these magical tales, thosewill be like your tales of
(04:28):
intrigue and friendship andjustification for the
inexplicable and enchantedadventures and all of those.
But no matter what the subjector the storyteller, they should
include these faces of color andpeople moving through imaginary
places and spaces, these spacesof color and people moving
through imaginary places andspaces.
You'll also want to includepicture books featuring modern
(04:48):
children and families fromdifferent ethnicities, cultures
and countries.
So those are books of not justold, of how it was, but like how
they're living today, becausemost children savor
opportunities to meet otherchildren in their books.
I love books like this, but youhave to be careful because you
don't want to make it seem likeother people are all exotic and
(05:13):
foreign and sometimes thosebooks can be a little bit trite
like that.
So I like to introduce engaginggeography books about other
regions of the world and withinthe regions within our own
country.
It kind of increases ourchild's sense of place.
The third type of book for thatage group would be historical
picture books and biographieshighlighting the lives,
(05:35):
specifically the lives of womenand people of color.
So I don't even need to gothrough the importance of that.
But now you're getting into thenonfiction and picture books.
Those are just going to carrythrough all the way.
I don't think you ever outgrowpicture books, in my opinion.
And the last one would bechapter books featuring and
including BIPOC.
So you know, these would bebooks that bring about key
(06:02):
messages, that take you fromthat littles category to a more
mature thought that people notonly look different than me, but
they live differently anddespite our differences we still
have a lot in common.
And here's a key, importantfact you know people who are
different from me.
They also love their familiesand have hopes and dreams and
(06:24):
like to have fun.
And they should know at thistime that historically some
people treated othersdifferently, unfairly or
maliciously, just because of howthey look, and that sometimes
it still happens today and theyshould be able to understand the
terms prejudice and racism andand that that they're both wrong
(06:45):
and so they're not too littleto understand those.
Those are actually foundationalthoughts and so from there they
can spring into the lateelementary years and it's more
of the same right Every stepyou're building.
So they're still reading thosesame types of books, but now
you're you're including morediverse, diverse poetry books
(07:06):
and short stories, biographiesand historical fiction.
And I think that you know someparents feel that they have a
hard time in this age becausethe kids are going from learning
to read Now they're reading tolearn, and sometimes they only
are interested in kind of moreof the bubble gum topics and not
(07:27):
some of these richer topics.
Yeah, and I think that that'sokay.
Um, some kids will be kids,different kids will be attracted
to different things, but that'swhere your read come in, so the
kids may choose what they readin their own time, but you
choose the family read aloud,and that's where you can fill
gaps and holes that you seewithin your own family.
And your key messages for youknow, for late elementary are
(07:49):
that indigenous and Africanpeople had a long, rich history
of civilization, traditions andculture well before Europeans
came to America and took theland and established the
Atlantic slave trade, like therewas like a whole lot that
happened before that.
You want your child to be ableto say I understand racism, I
(08:09):
understand how to activelyresist it and how to handle
myself when I experience it orwitness it, because they will.
And we need to give themlanguage for those complicated
feelings that they willexperience when they do witness
it.
And an important fact for thatage is that they know that
people are not all good or allbad, but they are a mix of both.
(08:31):
Yeah, they have to be able tolike developmentally.
Delina (08:35):
That's when they start to understand nuance.
Before that, everything is likeblack and white.
Black and white.
Amber (08:40):
Yes, that's right, and yeah, you're wanting.
That's where the ageappropriateness comes in.
You know when people aretalking about age appropriate,
to me it's more how the story istold versus whether the story
is told.
Oh, that's good.
So, yeah, so you just move onthere from middle school and
here.
You know your kids aretypically gonna start outpacing
you.
You're not gonna be able toread everything that they read
(09:02):
ahead of time, and that's okay.
They are growing as readers, aslearners.
You want them to start toreally dig deeply into the joys
and tensions that are framedwithin powerful literary mirrors
and windows.
And if you have a concern abouta book's content or maturity
level, you want to rely onin-depth, like kind of book
(09:27):
summaries and reviews.
But this is why being incommunity is important.
I need to be able to say oh,delina, I'm thinking about this
book for my kids.
What do you think?
I mean, we've had theseconversations before in real
life right, because I can't knowall the things, you can't know
all the things, but being incommunity as parents, we can
help each other.
It's just like how I would geta book you know recommended for
(09:48):
myself.
A friend will tell me Ooh, you,you can't miss this, you got to
get this, or like you can skipthat.
It's the same thing for ourkids, um, and ideally our middle
schoolers will begin thinkingum.
My parents and I speak openlyand frequently about many issues
in society, um, and I enjoylearning more about the world
around me.
I like reading books with kidswho are different than me,
(10:09):
because it helps me understandwhat life is like for different
people, and the stories are justso good.
Like, you want them to enjoy it, so you have to choose your
books and your book list foryour children wisely.
They should be saying I try toget to know lots of different
types of people and I genuinelyenjoy and appreciate friendship
with others.
And don't abandon your readalouds at this age.
(10:32):
A lot of times people are likeoh, my kids are in middle school
, I don't have to read aloudanymore.
Keep those read alouds, thosefamily read alouds, going.
They're hard to introduce at ahigher age, but if you've always
done it and you keep doing it,they won't think anything of it.
Delina (10:44):
It's awesome because it's like watching a movie
together, but you know, takingtwo weeks to watch right's like
you're all into the story.
Amber (10:54):
It's, it's, yeah, it makes for a lot of family jokes,
like inside jokes and likereferences and kind of things we
say under our breath like, ohgosh, here we go, you know, and
we'll all kind of giggle becausewe all know what what's
happening.
Um, and you know, as middleschoolers walk away and they're
starting to head into theirteenage years, what we're
(11:14):
looking for them to feel is that, for them to understand that
there are vibrant communities ofcolor worldwide, full of
inspired, talented people, butthe history of colonialism and
racism has impacted today'scross-cultural relationships.
It's not just something thathappened long ago.
There is an impact for todayand we need them to understand
(11:38):
that there's a rich history ofthe immigrant experience in our
country, including thecontributions that they've made
and the hardships that they'veendured and that's not just the
Western European immigrants, butall across the world and also
that they're starting to lookglobally and outwardly more, so
that they can say that some ofthe dynamics that I'm noticing
(12:00):
impacting communities of colorin my country, I'm noticing that
those are actually played outin other areas of the world as
well.
And then, finally, you have theteenage years and I'm just
entering into that area and it'sincredible.
I love it.
These children are young adultsand they're becoming young
(12:22):
adults and before we launch themout into whatever their next
thing is going to be, they needto have been exposed to mature
ideas, not Not vulgar, right?
When I say mature, I'm nottalking about vulgar ideas.
I'm talking about real,unfiltered ideas of what the
(12:42):
world is really like.
It's much safer for them toencounter that within our homes
while we're there, to discuss it, and to talk them through these
things and experiencing themtogether, than to send them out.
Talk them through these thingsand experiencing them together
than to send them out and letthem try to figure and fumble
through it on their own.
Specifically, the books thatyou know we'd be looking for to
address that type of history atthis age would be memoirs and
(13:05):
biographies by and about peopleof color and women, those
controversial landmark orhistorical novels that we may
have been avoiding in previousyears.
Now is the time they've got toread those.
They have to read those becausethey are.
It's not just about the story,it's about how that story
impacted the society, thesociety that we live in.
(13:28):
It's part of history, umcontemporary fiction that allows
teens to enter the world ofothers, so not just like these
old books.
I know homeschoolers especially.
I come from a Charlotte Masonbackground.
We love some old books, butthat's not it.
These contemporary books haveissues that children and young
adults are facing today and theyneed to be able to work through
(13:49):
some of that.
Through this kind of separationwhere there's some space
between them and the charactersin the book.
It allows them to experienceand work through things before
they encounter them in real life.
Nonfiction books by globalauthors that are not just
American authors but are globalauthors writing from their
(14:11):
perspective of their people.
And then, finally, I reallylike thematic anthologies and
collections of short stories atthis age because they are
becoming shorter on time.
Right, there's so much thatthey need to read and want to
experience and those shortstories can pack a powerful,
powerful punch.
(14:31):
So those are examples.
I mean.
Basically, that's the veryshort of it.
I guess the message for theteen years is that history is
complicated.
Announcer (14:39):
Okay.
Amber (14:39):
And we're still experiencing the complex legacy
of our country's unique freedomsand brutal past today.
And so they need to know thatthey have choices for the kind
of person that they're going tobe and how they can choose to
interact with other people, andthat not being part of the
problem is not enough.
(15:01):
That's not enough.
So they can't just not harm,they have to actually help and
be part of the solution.
It requires a level of activeinvolvement, so I think that's
what we want for our team, sothat's like a.
Very obviously in the book I gomuch more in depth, but that's
kind of where I see us going andtaking our children and, as you
(15:22):
can see it's, we're not herefor shock value or inappropriate
sharing, but that we'restarting at the beginning and
we're building the whole way.
Delina (15:31):
Yeah, I love that and along with that, so at every
stage, and we're building thewhole way, yeah, I love that,
and along with that, so at everystage, they're going to have
some hard history, some somecomplicated stuff not simplistic
stuff, stuff they're going tohave to think through and work
through in their own hearts,right.
But, like one of the the thingsthat you bring out in your book
that I love so much is justcreating a home where those
(15:56):
conversations can happen.
So it's not I'm scared to talklike I see something in a book
and I don't want mom to knowthat I'm reading this, but you
know what I mean just creatingthat environment in your home
where these conversations cancome up and they can trust that
they're going to get honestanswers.
(16:17):
So tell me a little bit abouthow to cultivate that
environment and our posturetowards hard history yeah.
Amber (16:25):
Yeah, I read some years back about this clinical
psychologist and he was a sexeducator and he said that we
should all be askable parentsand he meant that we should
always answer a child'squestions about sex whenever
they ask and I was like, okay, Iwas on board with that.
But I think it's broader thanjust sex.
(16:46):
I think that we should all beaskable parents in every aspect,
because that is part ofbelonging is feeling that there
is no topic off limits.
The people that I'm closestwith in this world are the
people that I don't have to talkvery haltingly, making sure I
(17:07):
don't say the wrong thing.
It's the people where I canjust say it, I can just ask it,
you know, without fear, withoutjudgment, and we should be those
people for our children.
So that means we have to beavailable and you know we got to
get our faces out of our phonesometimes and and and to face
and give our our eye contact andattention.
(17:28):
And if we can't engage when thechild first asks us, I always
say put it in your calendar likean alarm because you want to
tell them.
I can't talk to you about thisright now but this evening when
I get back probably around seven, 30, let's talk about this.
And then you got to put analarm because you'll forget.
And I always circle back and say, okay, I really want to get
back to what you asked meearlier.
(17:49):
I was running out the door butyeah, I'm here, let's talk about
that.
You have to give youngpermission, young children
permission to wait.
So by being an askable parent,trust me on this you will raise
children who feel verycomfortable asking you all of
their questions, and that'sgreat, that's what you want.
But you have to train them thatthere's a time and place.
(18:10):
And so for me, we talk aboutcar questions.
So a car question means you sawsomething while we were walking
around in Target and youralarms went off.
Something is not computing andyou want to talk about it.
While we're standing in Targetis not the time to talk about
that.
It's a car question, and youcan just tell me I have a car
(18:30):
question and they don't evenhave to tell me because I saw
what they saw, I love it.
Delina (18:34):
I love code words.
Amber (18:35):
Yes, we have a car question.
I saw what they saw and Ialready know usually what their
question is going to be andthat's okay and that's partially
.
The car question is partiallyso.
We can speak freely, so it's abenefit to us.
But really it's about makingsure that my children's right to
know or to ask doesn't overridetheir responsibility to treat
(18:56):
other people well.
So we're not going to point andwhisper and talk about people
and whatever.
But you can definitely ask meall the questions.
To be an askable parent.
You cannot freak out, so youknow if your kids are learning
about new things and you knowlet's go back.
This is just such a easyexample.
But, like Sally Hemings and mydaughter was like, so cause,
(19:17):
like easy example but, likeSally Hemings and my daughter
was like, so, cause, like?
and I was like, yeah, girl, youknow, if they're old enough to
ask, then they're old enough toget some amount of the answer
and you can judge, engage thatbased on your child's maturity.
But if she wouldn't be askingand she wasn't picking that up,
okay, so you can't freak out andbe like I'm not going to talk
(19:37):
to you about that.
Yeah, you got to do it.
And I'm like, okay, let's do it.
I always wait for them to askthe question.
I knew what she wanted to talkabout, but I didn't know how far
, because I you might tell toomuch.
Maybe they weren't asking allof that.
But you know she, she wanted toknow how the baby came and that
didn't make sense.
You know why would you?
Why would she want to be hisgirlfriend?
Announcer (19:57):
And.
Amber (19:58):
I talk about that and I think just a couple more things
about being an askable parent.
If you're going to set up thistype of environment, you want to
keep it within the family.
This is very important to me,especially in the time, this
time of social media.
Don't share your children'scontroversial questions with
other people.
One, because we've seen we'veall seen time and time again
(20:18):
that all of that stuff comesback, can come back later.
You don't know what yourchild's going to want to do or
who they're going to want to be,and they don't need a social
media trail or even yourneighbor or anybody knowing that
your kid once asked the mostbigoted question in the world or
that they said something thatwas really foul about a whole
group of people.
(20:38):
I would be mortified if my momor my sister or my husband
shared some of the things that Isay and have asked in our
private conversations.
Delina (20:50):
Amber Alexa is listening .
Amber (20:53):
Alexa can't be in this room though.
She's in the kitchen.
We keep it real in the kitchen.
You know light, lightconversations.
But yeah, that's funny, um,alexa's listening.
I gotta do that, um, but yeah,so those those things like I
want to give my kids the samerespect that I want from other
people, um, and then you have tobe willing to revisit the same
(21:15):
topic repeatedly, like you thinkyou talked about it and it's
over.
But it's not over for kids,because they're going to come
back, they're going to go away,they're going to think about it,
they're going to come back andyou can't be like we already
talked about this, because nowthey're going deeper there.
It's like a spiral, they'respiraling back around.
(21:36):
So you know, I think answer isI don't know, but we can talk
about it or let's figure it outtogether.
I definitely think don'tsugarcoat things.
Don't ever lie.
It's much better to tell them alittle bit of the truth than a
whole lot of a lie.
So if you feel in your heartyou cannot tell the whole truth
(21:57):
to their question, still tellthe truth, but just tell a thin
layer of it and build upon itlater.
Delina (22:08):
But you don't want to lose that trust.
I feel like some of this stuffis like requiring us to, because
sometimes I don't have theanswer.
A lot of times I don't have theanswer or I have a canned
answer.
Then maybe I heard or was toldand I was like I don't want to
tell them that.
So I'm like, let me, let methink through this.
So some of this is likereparenting ourselves and
(22:32):
relearning what we learned, youknow, in history rethinking
thoughts, that ways of thinkingright, rethinking our worldview.
Like so much of this, activeparenting and intentional
homeschooling is umhomeschooling ourselves oh,
(22:53):
absolutely.
I mean that's definitely true.
Amber (22:55):
I mean that I think that's part of why I always say
this is the best job in thewhole world.
I mean, like I feel like myresponsibility is to learn, you
know, alongside my child, likethat's awesome, I'm loving it,
(23:16):
think it's important that we'rewilling to update our answers.
So there have been times whereI've told my kids one thing and
I'm sorry.
I have gotten more informationsince then, I have been more
informed, my position haschanged and I can go back to
them and say hey, I know I toldyou that such and such and such,
but now that I've, you know,thought about it more, I can see
that actually this is what I'mthinking now, or I think this is
(23:39):
more true at this point, and Ithink your child will respect
that.
And, whether they do or not,that's life, right, that's real
and we want to model that.
Delina (23:50):
Amber, I love all of that wisdom that you shared with
us, just about how to do thisand not be scared about the
outcome, because the more realwe can be, the more real they'll
.
They'll grow up to be right no,I think that's true and that's
what we want, right?
Amber (24:09):
we're not trying to create this image of perfection?
Um, yes, it's.
We're not perfect History surenot perfect.
And we're not the heroes?
No, no, we're not.
And I mean, I think that theearlier that our children can
come to understand the nature ofhumanity and the ebbs and flows
(24:33):
of life, the better.
And again, the story willunfold more and more as they
grow, all the way through to theend of their days.
They will hopefully be truelifelong learners, as we both
are, and we're still putting thestory, piecing the story
together, and we just want themto be comfortable with the idea
(24:57):
of knowing.
I think that's what we we wantthem to be comfortable with the
idea of knowing.
Delina (25:02):
Right and that knowing is not fixed right Knowing
knowing grows.
Amber (25:08):
It's expansive, yeah, it's expansive, and you know
it's.
I don't usually walk aroundquoting Charlotte Mason
everywhere, but she hassomething that she wrote that
just has always kind of inspiredme and I'm paraphrasing.
But basically she said at theend of your child's education
it's not how much they know thatmatters most, it's how much
(25:29):
they care.
I love that.
I think that is to me what thewhole thing is about.
Delina (25:35):
I love that Well.
Thank you, amber.
I always love hearing Ambershare.
If you would like to hear thefirst part of this interview,
you can find it on the veryfirst episode of this podcast.
I would love to hear from you.
If you look right in yourpodcast app, whichever one you
use, there's a link to text mewith any questions that you have
.
Tell me what you want to learnmore about as you homeschool
(25:57):
yourself.
I'll get on it and find a guestto come chat about that topic.
I'm looking forward to yourtexts.
Thank you for listening.
Until next time, homeschoolyourself.
Announcer (26:07):
Homeschool Yourself is a production of Woke
Homeschooling Inc.
For show notes and links tothings mentioned in the episode,
visit wokehomeschoolingcomslash podcast.
Woke Homeschooling empowersparents to teach their kids an
inclusive, truthful history.
We invite you to visit ourwebsite and download a sample of
the history curriculum we offerfor kids.
(26:28):
Visit us atwokehomeschoolingcom.
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