April 17, 2024 • 25 mins
In a world where our present is inextricably linked to our past, literature serves as a bridge connecting the two. In a recent podcast episode, Alda Dobbs, an author revered for her poignant historical fiction, discusses the profound impact these narratives can have on young readers. Historical fiction, Dobbs asserts, is not merely a retelling of events; it's an invitation to walk in the shoes of those who came before us, to feel their struggles, and to emerge with a newfound understanding and empathy.
For links and the transcript, visit wokehomeschooling.com/podcast
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Delina McPhaull (00:00):
How does historical fiction help kids
learn about history?
What value is there in sharinghard history with children?
Welcome to Homeschool Yourself.
I'm your host, delena.
Join me for this conversationwith author Alda Dobbs.
Book Club is a component of AWhole New World History the
(00:28):
world history curriculum formiddle schoolers at Woke
Homeschooling, while studyingthe history of North America,
students read Barefoot Dreams ofPetra luna by Alda Dobbs.
After the author paid us avirtual visit, I got a chance to
ask her some questions abouther writing as a bilingual
author of historical fiction formiddle grade students.
We talked about what childrencan learn through learning hard
(00:51):
history, what kids can get fromhistorical fiction and her road
to becoming an author.
I think her path will surpriseyou.
Alda's life story is a greatexample of how we can pivot,
work hard at something we loveand learn something new, no
matter what stage in life we'rein or what we went to school to
do.
Enjoy this conversation withAlda Dobbs.
(01:12):
Hi, Alda, it's so good to haveyou here.
I just wanted to ask you somequestions.
We just finished doing apresentation with some middle
school students, some worldhistory students, and it was
awesome.
I tried to let them ask all thequestions and not answer my
questions, but I still have somemore questions, so I'm so glad
(01:33):
that I get to sit here just withyou for a few minutes and ask
those questions.
Why do you think that it'simportant to tell the stories
from those people who have beenoppressed or displaced, or in
just the stories of real peoplethat lived through a historical
event?
Alda Dobbs (01:51):
Yeah, I think it's important because a lot of stuff
we don't know and a lot oftimes so much is happening,
especially nowadays, so much ishappening in the world, that a
lot of stuff gets kind of pushedto the side, and maybe it's
always been like that.
So it's time that we, you know,dig into these histories and
pull out what's happened in thepast before.
(02:12):
So again, so we could learn fromour past and, you know, so that
the the future, the kids, couldbe better, be better prepared
for the future.
Uh, for instance, when I read,uh, there's a book, a middle
grade book, uh, by Avi, a middlegrade author called Crispin,
and it's about a boy growing upin medieval England, a really,
(02:32):
really poor boy, and just thestruggles he faces in, you know,
13th century England, and to methat was so foreign, I never
knew about that era and I'm like, oh my goodness, a boy in
England going through all thatduring the plague.
And then I compare that to whenmy great-grandmother lived you
know how poor and the haciendasand all that, compare that to
(02:53):
the feudal system that they hadin England, and I'm like, oh, my
goodness, you see thesimilarities.
So it's our histories like thisthat connects us all, that we
say, yeah, my ancestors wentthrough that as well.
Us all.
That we say, yeah, my ancestorswent through that as well, or
your ancestors went through this.
And that's how we connect eachother, by our histories and we.
Delina McPhaull (03:09):
that makes it easier to empathize with one
another yeah, so you said thatthe story that you um relate.
Of course it's fiction, butit's based on on history and
your own family history.
But that story or that accounthas was not in the history books
when you were doing research.
Alda Dobbs (03:28):
Yeah, it was.
To me.
It's so interesting thatsomething so big and you know so
many people, and not only that,but it changed, you know, texas
and Mexico and it changed thewhole Southwest in the United
States because he had so manyimmigrants come during that
period of time.
He had 2 million, which createdan anchor of more Mexican
(03:49):
families and more immigrationwaves to come after that.
So something that's what I toldmyself how could something this
significant not be in books?
And you know it's frustratingnot to find it in books,
especially Texas history books,and I grew up in Texas and you
know had what is it?
Two, three years of Texashistory and never mentioned the
(04:09):
Texas and the Mexican revolution.
So it was frustrating.
I said, okay, this is somethingwe got to do and hopefully this
will encourage other kids toseek their own histories and
bring them out into the light sothat more courses hopefully
could pick up books like thisand teach kids what's happened
before.
Delina McPhaull (04:28):
Yes, yes.
So important In the book, is itthe federales were the people
from Spain Is that right.
Or the Mexican government.
Alda Dobbs (04:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's a mexican government.
Yeah, it was.
It's very complicated because,yes, mexico was colonized by the
, by the spanish, and thenmexico got their independence
from spain, so the spanish crownwas done away with and mexico
became independent, but it wasstill people with Spanish blood
(05:04):
who ran Mexico.
Delina McPhaull (05:07):
And those are the people that that had the
haciendas.
Alda Dobbs (05:10):
Yeah, so it was it.
Then it became how, how muchSpanish are you?
You know?
How much blood Spanish were youborn in the motherland?
Were you born in Mexico?
That was you know.
So it became this cast, youknow, a system of how Spanish
you were.
And, for instance, if you hadenough questions, yeah, and if
you had enough power, a lot oftimes, like the dictator in
(05:34):
Mexico who was having vision, ishe denied that part, you know,
kind of like kind of hit it, andI mean he would even powder his
face to make himself appearlighter, I mean, just so he
could be accepted more tosociety.
So it became, you know, it wasMexicans, you know, fighting
Mexicans at that point.
(05:54):
But you know it became to, okay, are you more Spanish?
Are you lighter skin, are you?
But then, you know, and thenbecame about power.
You know, if you had enoughmoney, then you were considered,
you know, and then became aboutpower.
You know, if you had enoughmoney, then you were considered,
you know, to be Spanish or orwhatnot.
If you were poor, it didn'tmatter if you had fair skin, you
were indigenous because you'repoor.
So it became, you know, split,but it was Mexicans versus
(06:17):
Mexicans at that point, okayokay, we like to say in welcome
schooling um, I have it righthere.
Delina McPhaull (06:26):
Until the story of the hunt is told by the lion
, the tale of the hunt willalways glorify the hunter.
So can you give us an exampleof something that happened in
the Mexican Revolution, the waythat it's traditionally told,
and maybe the way that youdescribed it in your book or the
perspective that you came from?
Alda Dobbs (06:45):
Yeah, I would say it varies because my perspective
was the stories I grew up with.
You know, I grew up hearingabout rebels being the heroes,
you know, because they they werethe Robin Hoods.
You know they would steal fromthe rich and give to the poor.
So that's the perspective I got.
But there are other people whogrew up with a different
(07:06):
perspective.
You know that were attacked,you know, by rebels.
That their ranch was attackedby rebels because they were
stealing the cattle.
So they saw the rebels, as youknow, the invaders.
So it's just a different.
You know it's a differentpathway, different journey for
everyone during that war.
And that's what I tend to tellyoung readers that it's
complicated, it's verycomplicated.
(07:27):
Any war will be verycomplicated.
You can't just paint it one wayor the other and say it's all
evil, all good, because you knowit's a mesh, you know it's hard
to detangle that.
So you got to keep that in mind, that perspective, that it's
going to be different fordifferent people.
Delina McPhaull (07:43):
Right, that's, that's a good point.
That's a good point.
Well, just tell us how hasbeing bilingual helped you in
your writing?
Alda Dobbs (07:53):
Oh, my goodness, that's.
That's really really good CauseEnglish wasn't my first
language, it was Spanish.
So I learned English when Iwent into kindergarten.
That's when I started, becauseI didn't speak anything and even
though I had been living in theStates, everything in my
neighborhood was in Spanish.
You know, we spoke Spanish athome, TV was in Spanish,
Everything in the stores was inSpanish.
(08:19):
It took about three, four yearsto learn it and I didn't.
The teacher I had, you know, forthree years, wasn't the most
patient teacher.
I guess he got frustrated a lotthat I couldn't speak it.
So that only aggravated thesituation.
I became more frustrated, morescared.
I was scared of him, scared ofnot learning it correctly, and
(08:40):
it just, yeah, I created this,created this environment, love,
hate, relationship with English.
So, but I like storytelling,you know I like storytelling and
even though I was a reluctantreader, the idea of telling
stories was always in me and andas I grew up I figured, OK,
maybe it's something, I couldbecome a storyteller.
(09:03):
But when I got into collegeagain, you know, English was
always a problem.
So I did a placement test andended up with remedial English
scoring.
Remedial, I mean, I bombed thattest and my math did well.
So I thought that was a sign.
I said, okay, that's a signthat I shouldn't be a writer.
You know cause?
I, I will never speak perfectEnglish.
(09:23):
I, my English, is always goingto be not the best, so I should
probably focus on the career ofthe sciences.
But what I try to tell youngreaders now is doesn't matter,
you know what your firstlanguage is.
You know the confidence willfollow up if it's in your heart,
if it's your passion.
Follow that passion and thatconfidence will will come.
(09:43):
You know, with the hard work.
Don't expect the confidence tobe there from day one, because
that's what I was expecting andit didn't.
And even now, as a grown up,you know I'm working at it every
day, writing better and better.
And that confidence, you know,slowly comes with it, but it's
not something that comes fromday one.
So just be aware of that.
Delina McPhaull (10:02):
So you went into the sciences.
Alda Dobbs (10:05):
I did my background in science and physics and
engineering, so I did work at anengineering firm for a few
years before I went into writing.
Wow, that's a big difference incareer Big jump, yeah, but like
I tell people what's, what'sinteresting is that despite the
fact that physics is very hardscience, it's considered hard
(10:29):
science.
You use a lot of imaginationand physics just because so much
you cannot see.
You know, like in cosmology youcan't see dark energy or or
other celestial objects.
You know in the universe so yougot to imagine them and you
have the math to communicate theresults.
But you got to use yourimagination to be able to
(10:50):
explain what's happening.
You know in the subatomic world.
So a lot of it it is verycreative, you know.
So I think I had that advantage, you know, to be able to do
that switch, just a little jump,you know, not that big big of a
jump.
Delina McPhaull (11:02):
Right, and you now you use the words to explain
it to other people, the imagesthat you see in your imagination
.
That's awesome.
That's true.
Yeah, that's awesome.
When did you know that youwanted to be a writer?
Alda Dobbs (11:18):
I'd say I had stories in me all the time, and
especially in college.
You know, I'd see little thingsand I would think of stories,
and I never had the courage.
I always was too afraid oh, myEnglish, my English, my English,
and you never write in Spanish.
That's the thing, because Igrew up in the United States and
(11:39):
my Spanish wasn't that strong,you know.
I mean, I spoke it at home, youknow, but it wasn't formal, you
know, through the educationsystem in Mexico.
So I always felt that lack ofconfidence too.
It's always felt like I wasstuck in between, you know,
these two worlds, that I didn'tknow how to speak either
language.
Good enough, well enough.
So it came to a point that myhusband and I were stationed in
(12:02):
Italy and I was struggling tofind a job in engineering there.
And that's when he said youknow what?
Just write, just start writing.
You've always wanted to write.
And I said are you kidding?
Really?
He said, yeah, you have allthese stories.
Just sit down and start writing.
So that was about 12 years ago.
So I said, okay, I'll give it ashot.
You know, see what happens.
So yeah, and it was hard work,just a lot of rejections, a lot
(12:29):
of sweat, blood and tears.
But but you know it was apassion and that's something
that I realized later in life,that that passion was always in
me and I wish I would havefollowed that a lot sooner, you
know.
So I'm hoping you know I begchildren's like just follow that
dream, don't you know?
Don't cut yourself short saying, well, I'm never good at this
or I'm not, I like this or likethat.
No, just go at it, go for it.
Delina McPhaull (12:51):
I love that because some people think that
you just can write a book justnaturally and quickly, not
really realizing what adiscipline it is and how you,
even though you have the storyin your head, just putting it on
paper is is a discipline andit's a.
It's a craft that you have tostory in your head.
Just putting it on paper is adiscipline and it's a craft that
you have to work on.
Alda Dobbs (13:11):
It is.
It is.
There's a lot of words that II'm glad there's a big novel
that I wrote first that I'm gladit didn't get published because
it's awful.
So it's sitting in my drawer.
Maybe one day, if I take it outand restructure the whole thing
, it'll be something different.
But yeah, we all you have toput in the hours, the time.
Delina McPhaull (13:32):
Everything that you write is not going to make
it out of the drawer.
Alda Dobbs (13:36):
Exactly, and not only that.
Something I learned throughlive is that, because I always
told myself I'm an engineer, I'ma scientist, but not realizing
that I've always been a writerI'm an engineer, I'm a scientist
, but not realizing that I'vealways been a writer.
I wrote college essays, I wrotegrant proposals, essays for
(13:56):
scholarship applications,reports, and you're always
trying to sell something, youknow.
You're always pitchingsomething, either a project, or
you know a thesis or something.
There's always something, astory behind it.
So we're all writers, you know,and it's just.
There's always something astory behind it.
So we, we're all writers, youknow, and it's just trying to
turn into more creative writing.
So that's something that I tellmyself now that, my goodness,
you know why was I so afraid,you know, of writing?
(14:18):
Because I've been writing allmy life.
Delina McPhaull (14:21):
What would you?
Well, let me ask you this waythere are parents who see the
importance of teaching all ofhistory, not just one side of it
, but they don't really wanttheir kids to know hard history,
or they're not sure how theirkids will understand it and take
(14:46):
it in.
And your book is very intense.
It is yes.
And so what do you?
What value do you see insharing hard history with
children, with middle schoolers?
Alda Dobbs (14:59):
Yeah, I understand that the perspective of parents.
You know there's so many waysof of thinking, you know what's
what's's best, but personally Ithink it's just trying to get
that history Because it's dark.
Some of our history is dark.
It hurts, but I see theimportance of learning, looking
(15:20):
back and learning from that toavoid it repeating itself again
in the future.
And because if we don't knowabout it and we walk blindly
into the future, we might getsurprised by it and say, wait, I
didn't know that could happen.
Well, yeah, it happened, youknow, not long ago, so we're
better prepared.
We say, ok, that's whathappened, kind of like when I
read all these books on WorldWar II and you see what's
(15:45):
happened now in Europe andyou're like, oh my goodness, you
see that you feel it nowbecause you know what happened
there.
So it's not.
I think it's always frompersonally.
I think that experience ofknowing what happened in her
past to avoid that happeningagain, that's important for us
to be able to share with withthe future generations.
Delina McPhaull (16:07):
I love that you said that, because some of us
know, you know what we know.
World War II happened but toknow, and we know the Mexican
Revolution happened, but to knowwhat happened to actual, real
people that we can identify with.
We know, you know to know it ona personal level on, on a human
to human level, somebody whowas not in the room making the
(16:28):
decisions, who was not a generalor a you know a diplomat or
whatever you know a decisionmaker, and just to know how
those things affect real people.
Alda Dobbs (16:39):
Yes, yes, that's true, Because you do have a lot
of books on, like you said,diplomats and governors and how
it affected them, and also youdo have a few stories about the
general middle class.
You know person, but when youget the poorest of the poor and
children, especially girls, youknow that's you don't hear much
(17:01):
about that.
So it's interesting to pull outthose stories and say, look,
this is what this kid wentthrough here, kind of like I was
talking about the medievalchild living in that system, the
feudal system, to pull out hisstory and shine light and you
start seeing all theseresemblances, you know of all
these struggles that childrenare going through and
unfortunately they're goingthrough right now.
Delina McPhaull (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, really important.
What one book?
I know this is a hard questionfor an author to pick one book,
because authors read a lot,right?
What one book would you sayevery middle school student
should read?
Alda Dobbs (17:40):
It's tough.
It's tough I mean, oh my, oh mygoodness, because I it depends
on your mood and what's going on, and all that.
So there are so many wonderfulbooks out there, like I've.
I've mentioned Avi's, uhCrispin a lot, because I learned
so much from that book, thefact that I said, oh my goodness
, this is a boy in Britain wentthrough that in the 1300s or the
(18:01):
13th century and mygreat-grandmother went through
that over here.
Then I read the book uh Chainsby uh Anderson and I see that
child, what they went through,you know, and puts that into
perspective.
Then I see Lois Laurie, youknow, uh number the stars and
and I just connect with the kids.
You know that when they had togo through those harsh
environments, so there are somany books and I want to feel
(18:21):
better too, so I pick, connectwith the kids.
You know that when they had togo through those harsh
environments, so there are somany books and I want to feel
better, so I pick up Kate andCamila's books to feel better.
You know, bring some sunlight,some sunshine into my world to
get me away.
So so, yeah, it depends on mymood.
I couldn't.
I'm sorry, I hate that.
Delina McPhaull (18:40):
No, no, no it's .
It's hard to choose, it's hardto choose it is yeah, it is so I
love them all.
Alda Dobbs (18:46):
It's like my kids I love them all.
Don't pick a favorite.
Delina McPhaull (18:53):
Well, tell us about your upcoming book.
Alda Dobbs (18:56):
Yes, my upcoming book is the Other Side of the
River, and this one followsPetra Luna too.
It follows Petra Luna to SanAntonio because she makes it,
you know not to spoil the firstone, but she makes it across the
river and and I just, it wasdifferent for my family because
when they were in the at therefugee camp, the immigration
(19:19):
administration came over andspoke to them and said okay,
you've been here three weeks,we're about to shut down the
camp and the federalists haveleft, the rebels took back
control of the city, so it'salready calm over there.
So you're free to go back oryou can stay here and we'll give
you a job.
So you choose what you decide.
So my great grandmother youknow she's nine and she's spoken
(19:41):
over with her father they saidOkay, should we stay in America
or should we go back?
And they said you know whatamongst themselves they spoke
and they said we think it's bestwe go back, you know, because
Mexico is our land and we shouldfight to, you know, restore her
.
So they went back andeverything was burned to the
ground.
Villages were destroyed, so itwas really really hard to start
(20:02):
again.
You know, destroyed, so it wasreally really hard to start
again, you know, and.
But I've read in my researchthat a lot of immigrants stayed.
You know they ended up gettingjobs in San Antonio and North
Texas, even Kansas or Illinois.
So I said, oh, my goodness,that's a different struggle.
Because, yeah, a lot of peoplestruggle to find housing, to
find work, and even though therewere words, you know, the
conditions were bad sometimes.
(20:23):
So it was always a struggle.
So I figured, you know what?
Let me put petra in thatposition.
You know see how she wouldfight for her, how she would
fend for herself and her familyand try to make her dreams come
true of learning to read andwrite in a new environment.
Because now she's not in thatold village, now she's in a city
, and one of the biggest citiesin san.
It was san antonio back in in,uh in that year in texas.
(20:46):
It was one of the richest andlargest cities too.
So I wanted to put her in thatworld does she meet her little
friend again?
Delina McPhaull (20:56):
uh, don't tell me, don't tell me maybe yes,
maybe no, no.
Alda Dobbs (21:02):
Okay, what I do do like is that Pablo comes back
her cousin and he brings in theperspective of what happened as
a rebel boy, you know, in thewar.
So he brings that part of the,that piece of history so that
kids get a sense.
Okay, this is what it was liketo be in that, and it wasn't
(21:22):
easy.
Kids get a sense.
Okay, this is what it was liketo be in that, and it wasn't
easy.
Delina McPhaull (21:24):
My final question is what would you say
is the message of BarefootDreams of Petra Luna?
And like what?
What message would?
Alda Dobbs (21:38):
you want?
Do you want kids and theparents who read it with them to
get out of it?
Yeah, I would say it's two ofthem.
One of them would be that kids.
You know Petra Luna is 12.
And she's capable of so much.
So you know for you kids outthere, you could conquer the
world.
I mean, even though people sayyou're a kid, you're limited.
No, you're not.
You know, you're more powerfulthan you think, you're stronger
(21:58):
than you think and, given thecircumstances and conditions,
you would do extraordinarythings.
You know and you're capable ofthat.
And so don't ever let anybodyyou know underestimate what
you're capable of, because eventhough you're a kid, you're
stronger than what you believein and you could achieve
anything you want to.
(22:18):
I want the messages, just like Itold people before in the
presentation, that this is thestory is not unique to Petra or
my family or or Mexicans, thatthis is a universal story, that
of the struggles of peoplemigrating to this country.
You know you have the Irishescaping the famine, the Germans
who came to Texas.
They struggled a lot too.
(22:39):
So so many people havestruggled in so many ways to get
here and to other safe placesin Europe, across the world.
You know, we're alwaysstruggling to find a better
place for ourselves and for ourkids or our future generation.
So I want people to connect,you know, with that, with that
story, to empathize with oneanother, to say, yeah, that's
what happened in my history andand also dig into your history
(23:03):
too.
So that's, that's the third one.
I guess it would be to startdigging into those stories.
So that's three messages, Iguess.
Delina McPhaull (23:11):
That's awesome.
No, that's awesome.
I'm pretty sure you inspiredlots of them today to dig into
their their own history and justfind stories of real people.
Alda Dobbs (23:22):
Oh, thank you.
Delina McPhaull (23:25):
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for yourcontribution to you know the
literature for middle schoolstudents.
Alda Dobbs (23:32):
No, I appreciate it.
I appreciate the time and theopportunity with these wonderful
kids.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Delina McPhaull (23:38):
All right.
Since Alda Dobbs and I spokefor this interview interview,
she released the sequel tobarefoot dreams of petra luna.
I will link to both books inthe show notes at
wokehomeschoolingcom slashpodcast.
My kids and I both enjoyed thisintense historical novel and I
(23:59):
definitely recommend it for yourmiddle school student.
It's one of those books thatreally make you feel what it
might have been like to livethrough a consequential moment
in history, and we've had a fewof those in the last few years.
In this case she was talkingabout the Mexican Revolution,
but it's a really, really greatbook.
I think that's what the bestbooks do they get you to relate
(24:19):
to the characters and seehistory in a way that you can
empathize with those who livedwith the consequences of the
decisions of the powerful.
When history is no longerabstract for your kids, that's
when you know you're winning.
That's when you know you'remaking homeschool magic, and
(24:39):
that's what we do in our UShistory curriculum and our world
history curriculum.
If you're new to WokeHomeschooling, I invite you to
download samples of ourcurriculum.
We'd love to partner with youto make history come alive for
your kids.
Visit our website atwokehomeschoolingcom.
Until next time, go unlearnsomething.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Homeschool Yourself is a production of Woke
Homeschooling Inc.
For show notes and links tothings mentioned in the episode,
visit wokehomeschoolingcomslash podcast.
Woke Homeschooling empowersparents to teach their kids an
inclusive, truthful history.
We invite you to visit ourwebsite and download a sample of
the history curriculum we offerfor kids.
(25:13):
Visit us atwokehomeschoolingcom.
How does historical fiction help kids
learn about history?
What value is there in sharinghard history with children?
Welcome to Homeschool Yourself.
I'm your host, delena.
Join me for this conversationwith author Alda Dobbs.
Book Club is a component of AWhole New World History the
(00:28):
world history curriculum formiddle schoolers at Woke
Homeschooling, while studyingthe history of North America,
students read Barefoot Dreams ofPetra luna by Alda Dobbs.
After the author paid us avirtual visit, I got a chance to
ask her some questions abouther writing as a bilingual
author of historical fiction formiddle grade students.
We talked about what childrencan learn through learning hard
(00:51):
history, what kids can get fromhistorical fiction and her road
to becoming an author.
I think her path will surpriseyou.
Alda's life story is a greatexample of how we can pivot,
work hard at something we loveand learn something new, no
matter what stage in life we'rein or what we went to school to
do.
Enjoy this conversation withAlda Dobbs.
(01:12):
Hi, Alda, it's so good to haveyou here.
I just wanted to ask you somequestions.
We just finished doing apresentation with some middle
school students, some worldhistory students, and it was
awesome.
I tried to let them ask all thequestions and not answer my
questions, but I still have somemore questions, so I'm so glad
(01:33):
that I get to sit here just withyou for a few minutes and ask
those questions.
Why do you think that it'simportant to tell the stories
from those people who have beenoppressed or displaced, or in
just the stories of real peoplethat lived through a historical
event?
Alda Dobbs (01:51):
Yeah, I think it's important because a lot of stuff
we don't know and a lot oftimes so much is happening,
especially nowadays, so much ishappening in the world, that a
lot of stuff gets kind of pushedto the side, and maybe it's
always been like that.
So it's time that we, you know,dig into these histories and
pull out what's happened in thepast before.
(02:12):
So again, so we could learn fromour past and, you know, so that
the the future, the kids, couldbe better, be better prepared
for the future.
Uh, for instance, when I read,uh, there's a book, a middle
grade book, uh, by Avi, a middlegrade author called Crispin,
and it's about a boy growing upin medieval England, a really,
(02:32):
really poor boy, and just thestruggles he faces in, you know,
13th century England, and to methat was so foreign, I never
knew about that era and I'm like, oh my goodness, a boy in
England going through all thatduring the plague.
And then I compare that to whenmy great-grandmother lived you
know how poor and the haciendasand all that, compare that to
(02:53):
the feudal system that they hadin England, and I'm like, oh, my
goodness, you see thesimilarities.
So it's our histories like thisthat connects us all, that we
say, yeah, my ancestors wentthrough that as well.
Us all.
That we say, yeah, my ancestorswent through that as well, or
your ancestors went through this.
And that's how we connect eachother, by our histories and we.
Delina McPhaull (03:09):
that makes it easier to empathize with one
another yeah, so you said thatthe story that you um relate.
Of course it's fiction, butit's based on on history and
your own family history.
But that story or that accounthas was not in the history books
when you were doing research.
Alda Dobbs (03:28):
Yeah, it was.
To me.
It's so interesting thatsomething so big and you know so
many people, and not only that,but it changed, you know, texas
and Mexico and it changed thewhole Southwest in the United
States because he had so manyimmigrants come during that
period of time.
He had 2 million, which createdan anchor of more Mexican
(03:49):
families and more immigrationwaves to come after that.
So something that's what I toldmyself how could something this
significant not be in books?
And you know it's frustratingnot to find it in books,
especially Texas history books,and I grew up in Texas and you
know had what is it?
Two, three years of Texashistory and never mentioned the
(04:09):
Texas and the Mexican revolution.
So it was frustrating.
I said, okay, this is somethingwe got to do and hopefully this
will encourage other kids toseek their own histories and
bring them out into the light sothat more courses hopefully
could pick up books like thisand teach kids what's happened
before.
Delina McPhaull (04:28):
Yes, yes.
So important In the book, is itthe federales were the people
from Spain Is that right.
Or the Mexican government.
Alda Dobbs (04:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's a mexican government.
Yeah, it was.
It's very complicated because,yes, mexico was colonized by the
, by the spanish, and thenmexico got their independence
from spain, so the spanish crownwas done away with and mexico
became independent, but it wasstill people with Spanish blood
(05:04):
who ran Mexico.
Delina McPhaull (05:07):
And those are the people that that had the
haciendas.
Alda Dobbs (05:10):
Yeah, so it was it.
Then it became how, how muchSpanish are you?
You know?
How much blood Spanish were youborn in the motherland?
Were you born in Mexico?
That was you know.
So it became this cast, youknow, a system of how Spanish
you were.
And, for instance, if you hadenough questions, yeah, and if
you had enough power, a lot oftimes, like the dictator in
(05:34):
Mexico who was having vision, ishe denied that part, you know,
kind of like kind of hit it, andI mean he would even powder his
face to make himself appearlighter, I mean, just so he
could be accepted more tosociety.
So it became, you know, it wasMexicans, you know, fighting
Mexicans at that point.
(05:54):
But you know it became to, okay, are you more Spanish?
Are you lighter skin, are you?
But then, you know, and thenbecame about power.
You know, if you had enoughmoney, then you were considered,
you know, and then became aboutpower.
You know, if you had enoughmoney, then you were considered,
you know, to be Spanish or orwhatnot.
If you were poor, it didn'tmatter if you had fair skin, you
were indigenous because you'repoor.
So it became, you know, split,but it was Mexicans versus
(06:17):
Mexicans at that point, okayokay, we like to say in welcome
schooling um, I have it righthere.
Delina McPhaull (06:26):
Until the story of the hunt is told by the lion
, the tale of the hunt willalways glorify the hunter.
So can you give us an exampleof something that happened in
the Mexican Revolution, the waythat it's traditionally told,
and maybe the way that youdescribed it in your book or the
perspective that you came from?
Alda Dobbs (06:45):
Yeah, I would say it varies because my perspective
was the stories I grew up with.
You know, I grew up hearingabout rebels being the heroes,
you know, because they they werethe Robin Hoods.
You know they would steal fromthe rich and give to the poor.
So that's the perspective I got.
But there are other people whogrew up with a different
(07:06):
perspective.
You know that were attacked,you know, by rebels.
That their ranch was attackedby rebels because they were
stealing the cattle.
So they saw the rebels, as youknow, the invaders.
So it's just a different.
You know it's a differentpathway, different journey for
everyone during that war.
And that's what I tend to tellyoung readers that it's
complicated, it's verycomplicated.
(07:27):
Any war will be verycomplicated.
You can't just paint it one wayor the other and say it's all
evil, all good, because you knowit's a mesh, you know it's hard
to detangle that.
So you got to keep that in mind, that perspective, that it's
going to be different fordifferent people.
Delina McPhaull (07:43):
Right, that's, that's a good point.
That's a good point.
Well, just tell us how hasbeing bilingual helped you in
your writing?
Alda Dobbs (07:53):
Oh, my goodness, that's.
That's really really good CauseEnglish wasn't my first
language, it was Spanish.
So I learned English when Iwent into kindergarten.
That's when I started, becauseI didn't speak anything and even
though I had been living in theStates, everything in my
neighborhood was in Spanish.
You know, we spoke Spanish athome, TV was in Spanish,
Everything in the stores was inSpanish.
(08:19):
It took about three, four yearsto learn it and I didn't.
The teacher I had, you know, forthree years, wasn't the most
patient teacher.
I guess he got frustrated a lotthat I couldn't speak it.
So that only aggravated thesituation.
I became more frustrated, morescared.
I was scared of him, scared ofnot learning it correctly, and
(08:40):
it just, yeah, I created this,created this environment, love,
hate, relationship with English.
So, but I like storytelling,you know I like storytelling and
even though I was a reluctantreader, the idea of telling
stories was always in me and andas I grew up I figured, OK,
maybe it's something, I couldbecome a storyteller.
(09:03):
But when I got into collegeagain, you know, English was
always a problem.
So I did a placement test andended up with remedial English
scoring.
Remedial, I mean, I bombed thattest and my math did well.
So I thought that was a sign.
I said, okay, that's a signthat I shouldn't be a writer.
You know cause?
I, I will never speak perfectEnglish.
(09:23):
I, my English, is always goingto be not the best, so I should
probably focus on the career ofthe sciences.
But what I try to tell youngreaders now is doesn't matter,
you know what your firstlanguage is.
You know the confidence willfollow up if it's in your heart,
if it's your passion.
Follow that passion and thatconfidence will will come.
(09:43):
You know, with the hard work.
Don't expect the confidence tobe there from day one, because
that's what I was expecting andit didn't.
And even now, as a grown up,you know I'm working at it every
day, writing better and better.
And that confidence, you know,slowly comes with it, but it's
not something that comes fromday one.
So just be aware of that.
Delina McPhaull (10:02):
So you went into the sciences.
Alda Dobbs (10:05):
I did my background in science and physics and
engineering, so I did work at anengineering firm for a few
years before I went into writing.
Wow, that's a big difference incareer Big jump, yeah, but like
I tell people what's, what'sinteresting is that despite the
fact that physics is very hardscience, it's considered hard
(10:29):
science.
You use a lot of imaginationand physics just because so much
you cannot see.
You know, like in cosmology youcan't see dark energy or or
other celestial objects.
You know in the universe so yougot to imagine them and you
have the math to communicate theresults.
But you got to use yourimagination to be able to
(10:50):
explain what's happening.
You know in the subatomic world.
So a lot of it it is verycreative, you know.
So I think I had that advantage, you know, to be able to do
that switch, just a little jump,you know, not that big big of a
jump.
Delina McPhaull (11:02):
Right, and you now you use the words to explain
it to other people, the imagesthat you see in your imagination
.
That's awesome.
That's true.
Yeah, that's awesome.
When did you know that youwanted to be a writer?
Alda Dobbs (11:18):
I'd say I had stories in me all the time, and
especially in college.
You know, I'd see little thingsand I would think of stories,
and I never had the courage.
I always was too afraid oh, myEnglish, my English, my English,
and you never write in Spanish.
That's the thing, because Igrew up in the United States and
(11:39):
my Spanish wasn't that strong,you know.
I mean, I spoke it at home, youknow, but it wasn't formal, you
know, through the educationsystem in Mexico.
So I always felt that lack ofconfidence too.
It's always felt like I wasstuck in between, you know,
these two worlds, that I didn'tknow how to speak either
language.
Good enough, well enough.
So it came to a point that myhusband and I were stationed in
(12:02):
Italy and I was struggling tofind a job in engineering there.
And that's when he said youknow what?
Just write, just start writing.
You've always wanted to write.
And I said are you kidding?
Really?
He said, yeah, you have allthese stories.
Just sit down and start writing.
So that was about 12 years ago.
So I said, okay, I'll give it ashot.
You know, see what happens.
So yeah, and it was hard work,just a lot of rejections, a lot
(12:29):
of sweat, blood and tears.
But but you know it was apassion and that's something
that I realized later in life,that that passion was always in
me and I wish I would havefollowed that a lot sooner, you
know.
So I'm hoping you know I begchildren's like just follow that
dream, don't you know?
Don't cut yourself short saying, well, I'm never good at this
or I'm not, I like this or likethat.
No, just go at it, go for it.
Delina McPhaull (12:51):
I love that because some people think that
you just can write a book justnaturally and quickly, not
really realizing what adiscipline it is and how you,
even though you have the storyin your head, just putting it on
paper is is a discipline andit's a.
It's a craft that you have tostory in your head.
Just putting it on paper is adiscipline and it's a craft that
you have to work on.
Alda Dobbs (13:11):
It is.
It is.
There's a lot of words that II'm glad there's a big novel
that I wrote first that I'm gladit didn't get published because
it's awful.
So it's sitting in my drawer.
Maybe one day, if I take it outand restructure the whole thing
, it'll be something different.
But yeah, we all you have toput in the hours, the time.
Delina McPhaull (13:32):
Everything that you write is not going to make
it out of the drawer.
Alda Dobbs (13:36):
Exactly, and not only that.
Something I learned throughlive is that, because I always
told myself I'm an engineer, I'ma scientist, but not realizing
that I've always been a writerI'm an engineer, I'm a scientist
, but not realizing that I'vealways been a writer.
I wrote college essays, I wrotegrant proposals, essays for
(13:56):
scholarship applications,reports, and you're always
trying to sell something, youknow.
You're always pitchingsomething, either a project, or
you know a thesis or something.
There's always something, astory behind it.
So we're all writers, you know,and it's just.
There's always something astory behind it.
So we, we're all writers, youknow, and it's just trying to
turn into more creative writing.
So that's something that I tellmyself now that, my goodness,
you know why was I so afraid,you know, of writing?
(14:18):
Because I've been writing allmy life.
Delina McPhaull (14:21):
What would you?
Well, let me ask you this waythere are parents who see the
importance of teaching all ofhistory, not just one side of it
, but they don't really wanttheir kids to know hard history,
or they're not sure how theirkids will understand it and take
(14:46):
it in.
And your book is very intense.
It is yes.
And so what do you?
What value do you see insharing hard history with
children, with middle schoolers?
Alda Dobbs (14:59):
Yeah, I understand that the perspective of parents.
You know there's so many waysof of thinking, you know what's
what's's best, but personally Ithink it's just trying to get
that history Because it's dark.
Some of our history is dark.
It hurts, but I see theimportance of learning, looking
(15:20):
back and learning from that toavoid it repeating itself again
in the future.
And because if we don't knowabout it and we walk blindly
into the future, we might getsurprised by it and say, wait, I
didn't know that could happen.
Well, yeah, it happened, youknow, not long ago, so we're
better prepared.
We say, ok, that's whathappened, kind of like when I
read all these books on WorldWar II and you see what's
(15:45):
happened now in Europe andyou're like, oh my goodness, you
see that you feel it nowbecause you know what happened
there.
So it's not.
I think it's always frompersonally.
I think that experience ofknowing what happened in her
past to avoid that happeningagain, that's important for us
to be able to share with withthe future generations.
Delina McPhaull (16:07):
I love that you said that, because some of us
know, you know what we know.
World War II happened but toknow, and we know the Mexican
Revolution happened, but to knowwhat happened to actual, real
people that we can identify with.
We know, you know to know it ona personal level on, on a human
to human level, somebody whowas not in the room making the
(16:28):
decisions, who was not a generalor a you know a diplomat or
whatever you know a decisionmaker, and just to know how
those things affect real people.
Alda Dobbs (16:39):
Yes, yes, that's true, Because you do have a lot
of books on, like you said,diplomats and governors and how
it affected them, and also youdo have a few stories about the
general middle class.
You know person, but when youget the poorest of the poor and
children, especially girls, youknow that's you don't hear much
(17:01):
about that.
So it's interesting to pull outthose stories and say, look,
this is what this kid wentthrough here, kind of like I was
talking about the medievalchild living in that system, the
feudal system, to pull out hisstory and shine light and you
start seeing all theseresemblances, you know of all
these struggles that childrenare going through and
unfortunately they're goingthrough right now.
Delina McPhaull (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, really important.
What one book?
I know this is a hard questionfor an author to pick one book,
because authors read a lot,right?
What one book would you sayevery middle school student
should read?
Alda Dobbs (17:40):
It's tough.
It's tough I mean, oh my, oh mygoodness, because I it depends
on your mood and what's going on, and all that.
So there are so many wonderfulbooks out there, like I've.
I've mentioned Avi's, uhCrispin a lot, because I learned
so much from that book, thefact that I said, oh my goodness
, this is a boy in Britain wentthrough that in the 1300s or the
(18:01):
13th century and mygreat-grandmother went through
that over here.
Then I read the book uh Chainsby uh Anderson and I see that
child, what they went through,you know, and puts that into
perspective.
Then I see Lois Laurie, youknow, uh number the stars and
and I just connect with the kids.
You know that when they had togo through those harsh
environments, so there are somany books and I want to feel
(18:21):
better too, so I pick, connectwith the kids.
You know that when they had togo through those harsh
environments, so there are somany books and I want to feel
better, so I pick up Kate andCamila's books to feel better.
You know, bring some sunlight,some sunshine into my world to
get me away.
So so, yeah, it depends on mymood.
I couldn't.
I'm sorry, I hate that.
Delina McPhaull (18:40):
No, no, no it's .
It's hard to choose, it's hardto choose it is yeah, it is so I
love them all.
Alda Dobbs (18:46):
It's like my kids I love them all.
Don't pick a favorite.
Delina McPhaull (18:53):
Well, tell us about your upcoming book.
Alda Dobbs (18:56):
Yes, my upcoming book is the Other Side of the
River, and this one followsPetra Luna too.
It follows Petra Luna to SanAntonio because she makes it,
you know not to spoil the firstone, but she makes it across the
river and and I just, it wasdifferent for my family because
when they were in the at therefugee camp, the immigration
(19:19):
administration came over andspoke to them and said okay,
you've been here three weeks,we're about to shut down the
camp and the federalists haveleft, the rebels took back
control of the city, so it'salready calm over there.
So you're free to go back oryou can stay here and we'll give
you a job.
So you choose what you decide.
So my great grandmother youknow she's nine and she's spoken
(19:41):
over with her father they saidOkay, should we stay in America
or should we go back?
And they said you know whatamongst themselves they spoke
and they said we think it's bestwe go back, you know, because
Mexico is our land and we shouldfight to, you know, restore her
.
So they went back andeverything was burned to the
ground.
Villages were destroyed, so itwas really really hard to start
(20:02):
again.
You know, destroyed, so it wasreally really hard to start
again, you know, and.
But I've read in my researchthat a lot of immigrants stayed.
You know they ended up gettingjobs in San Antonio and North
Texas, even Kansas or Illinois.
So I said, oh, my goodness,that's a different struggle.
Because, yeah, a lot of peoplestruggle to find housing, to
find work, and even though therewere words, you know, the
conditions were bad sometimes.
(20:23):
So it was always a struggle.
So I figured, you know what?
Let me put petra in thatposition.
You know see how she wouldfight for her, how she would
fend for herself and her familyand try to make her dreams come
true of learning to read andwrite in a new environment.
Because now she's not in thatold village, now she's in a city
, and one of the biggest citiesin san.
It was san antonio back in in,uh in that year in texas.
(20:46):
It was one of the richest andlargest cities too.
So I wanted to put her in thatworld does she meet her little
friend again?
Delina McPhaull (20:56):
uh, don't tell me, don't tell me maybe yes,
maybe no, no.
Alda Dobbs (21:02):
Okay, what I do do like is that Pablo comes back
her cousin and he brings in theperspective of what happened as
a rebel boy, you know, in thewar.
So he brings that part of the,that piece of history so that
kids get a sense.
Okay, this is what it was liketo be in that, and it wasn't
(21:22):
easy.
Kids get a sense.
Okay, this is what it was liketo be in that, and it wasn't
easy.
Delina McPhaull (21:24):
My final question is what would you say
is the message of BarefootDreams of Petra Luna?
And like what?
What message would?
Alda Dobbs (21:38):
you want?
Do you want kids and theparents who read it with them to
get out of it?
Yeah, I would say it's two ofthem.
One of them would be that kids.
You know Petra Luna is 12.
And she's capable of so much.
So you know for you kids outthere, you could conquer the
world.
I mean, even though people sayyou're a kid, you're limited.
No, you're not.
You know, you're more powerfulthan you think, you're stronger
(21:58):
than you think and, given thecircumstances and conditions,
you would do extraordinarythings.
You know and you're capable ofthat.
And so don't ever let anybodyyou know underestimate what
you're capable of, because eventhough you're a kid, you're
stronger than what you believein and you could achieve
anything you want to.
(22:18):
I want the messages, just like Itold people before in the
presentation, that this is thestory is not unique to Petra or
my family or or Mexicans, thatthis is a universal story, that
of the struggles of peoplemigrating to this country.
You know you have the Irishescaping the famine, the Germans
who came to Texas.
They struggled a lot too.
(22:39):
So so many people havestruggled in so many ways to get
here and to other safe placesin Europe, across the world.
You know, we're alwaysstruggling to find a better
place for ourselves and for ourkids or our future generation.
So I want people to connect,you know, with that, with that
story, to empathize with oneanother, to say, yeah, that's
what happened in my history andand also dig into your history
(23:03):
too.
So that's, that's the third one.
I guess it would be to startdigging into those stories.
So that's three messages, Iguess.
Delina McPhaull (23:11):
That's awesome.
No, that's awesome.
I'm pretty sure you inspiredlots of them today to dig into
their their own history and justfind stories of real people.
Alda Dobbs (23:22):
Oh, thank you.
Delina McPhaull (23:25):
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for yourcontribution to you know the
literature for middle schoolstudents.
Alda Dobbs (23:32):
No, I appreciate it.
I appreciate the time and theopportunity with these wonderful
kids.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Delina McPhaull (23:38):
All right.
Since Alda Dobbs and I spokefor this interview interview,
she released the sequel tobarefoot dreams of petra luna.
I will link to both books inthe show notes at
wokehomeschoolingcom slashpodcast.
My kids and I both enjoyed thisintense historical novel and I
(23:59):
definitely recommend it for yourmiddle school student.
It's one of those books thatreally make you feel what it
might have been like to livethrough a consequential moment
in history, and we've had a fewof those in the last few years.
In this case she was talkingabout the Mexican Revolution,
but it's a really, really greatbook.
I think that's what the bestbooks do they get you to relate
(24:19):
to the characters and seehistory in a way that you can
empathize with those who livedwith the consequences of the
decisions of the powerful.
When history is no longerabstract for your kids, that's
when you know you're winning.
That's when you know you'remaking homeschool magic, and
(24:39):
that's what we do in our UShistory curriculum and our world
history curriculum.
If you're new to WokeHomeschooling, I invite you to
download samples of ourcurriculum.
We'd love to partner with youto make history come alive for
your kids.
Visit our website atwokehomeschoolingcom.
Until next time, go unlearnsomething.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Homeschool Yourself is a production of Woke
Homeschooling Inc.
For show notes and links tothings mentioned in the episode,
visit wokehomeschoolingcomslash podcast.
Woke Homeschooling empowersparents to teach their kids an
inclusive, truthful history.
We invite you to visit ourwebsite and download a sample of
the history curriculum we offerfor kids.
(25:13):
Visit us atwokehomeschoolingcom.
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