June 26, 2025 • 43 mins
Doll historian and witch Heather Green unpacks the mysterious world of haunted dolls, explaining how they function as portals for spirits rather than becoming possessed objects themselves. She draws on her extensive knowledge of doll history and the occult to help us distinguish between "inspirited" dolls that have absorbed energy over time, and "ensouled" dolls that serve as anchors for specific spirits.
In this interview, Heather teaches us:
• Dolls can be "inspirited" with energy from years of human interaction without being haunted
• Most haunted dolls function as portals rather than possessed objects
• Destroying a haunted doll can make the haunting worse
• Tarot can be an effective tool for communicating with doll-attached spirits
Heather also hosts a weekly podcast called "The Witches Movie Coven," discussing films from a witch's perspective. Learn more about her at https://www.heathergreene.net, or in the show notes for this episode at homespunhaints.com.
And remember, there's no such thing as a free kitten.
The Activity Continues is a podcast where three soul friends talk about all things paranormal. Ghosts, hauntings, psychics, movies and TV shows (especially The Dead Files) and other spooky and spooky-adjacent things as well.
We also like to interview people in the paranormal community as well as past Dead Files clients and other interesting people.
Sometimes we even tell your stories.
So, grab your beverage of choice and join us where… The Activity Continues.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
It's late at night and everyone is asleep.
You wake up to a sound and justbeyond the veil of sleep, you
hear the pitter-patter of littlefeet.
What was that?
You look over at the antiquebisque doll sitting on top of
your dresser, was it?
No, it couldn't have been,could it?
Was the doll taking a strollwhile you slept.
(00:26):
Our guest, heather Green, is anexpert on haunted dolls and the
occult and how these themes areportrayed in film Plus.
We'll meet some of her dollsand learn which ones are
actually inspirited.
Today on Homespun Haints.
Hello, hainted Loves, welcometo Homespun hates.
I am becky and I am diana, andtoday, for you, we're going to
(00:50):
talk about haunted dolls.
Yet again.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Why is this such a popular topic, becky?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
oh well, I don't know , maybe it's because they're
really cool.
Oh yes, I have a bat on my head.
You do yes, this is a gift fromLady Teal, of Lady Teal's
Curios.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I've had a real bat in my hair.
That sounds unpleasant.
Oh no, it was adorable.
I was in Delphi and I waswatching the sunset over this
beautiful gorge and this littleadorable bat just flew right
into my hair and snuggled upnext to my neck and it didn't
move because I'd never touched abat before.
So I just let it sit there andthen just flew away.
It was so sweet and innocent.
(01:31):
And then, you know, 10 yearslater, a bat got in my house and
I freaked out.
And that wasn't no, so itdidn't train me to love bats,
unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Delphine bats don't have rabies because they're
actually oracles.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
That's probably true.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Well, speaking of adorable things, yes, we're
going to be talking about dollstoday.
We are going to be interviewingHeather Green, who is just a
delightful person to talk to.
She is also a film historian, adoll restorer, a doll historian
all of the things.
She also has her own podcastabout dolls and hauntings and
(02:05):
movies you don't say Wellspeaking of adorable things, you
know, we have so much floof inour house.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Are your children getting hairy yet?
Do they count or no?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
No, no, I'm talking about the quadrupeds.
We have Ella, that you guyshave seen on this show multiple
times, so many times she's shorthair.
And then we have Egon, who isthe Kazon puppy, who is just
floof.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I think it'd be really cute if you put a corset
on him, because he'd have acinched waist with all that.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Oh my god he would, but the floofmeister that we
have is Ripley Ripley the cat.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
And she was nice to me for the first time ever in my
years and years of knowing her.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
She's so mean to everybody, she's just like awful
, a little asshole.
So well I say little.
This cat is enormous, she's abig asshole.
We're still not quite sure whatshe is.
They said cat on the adoptionpapers.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
She's already done five figures worth of damage to
your house.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Oh yeah, okay yeah, let me get started here.
Okay.
So this cat, first of all.
She is very cute, that's true.
She's got that going for her.
Just a gorgeous floofy chonk.
Like you pick her up and youcan just feel the chonk like
warbling under the soft fur.
But this cat, I swear, that'sall she's got going for her.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
She's lovely from a distance.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
She's mean you can't snuggle with her right Because
she'll just like try to biteyour nose.
And yes, as you mentioned Diana, she did thousands and
thousands of dollars worth ofdamage to our house by peeing on
the carpet she got up on, likemy son's.
First of all, she was peeing inhis trash can, which seems
impossible.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
If she can do that, she can pee in the toilet.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
She won't pee in the toilet, she won't pee in the
litter box, but but, and it'snot out of spite, like this poor
cat.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I mean, she did use the trash can.
She's like well, it's waste.
We removed the trash canbecause the cleaning ladies like
freaked out when they saw it.
They're like, which one of yourchildren did this?
And I'm like the fuzzy one.
So then she was like backingher butt up to the wall behind
the dresser and peeing down thewall and onto the floor and of
(04:28):
course we kept like there was asmell in the room.
We couldn't find it and itwasn't until we moved the
dresser out and we realized ithad soaked all the way through
the subfloor.
The floor is just completelyruined.
We have to rip out all of thecarpet, put in hardwoods
upstairs.
Yeah, that was not cheap.
I've started teaching violinand I got some like nice flyers
(04:48):
printed and somehow okay, thiscat has no opposable thumb.
She's not like a Hemingway, nota polydactyl cat, but somehow
she managed to get a hold ofthose flyers, drag them like 50
feet to the other end of thebasement and then took a big old
dump on them.
I'm like, why do we keep thiscat?
(05:11):
I'm at my wit's end.
So, sean Nigro if you rememberhim from the Writer's Block
podcast and Eight Sparks Media,he is also a children's book
author and he's commissioned meto do some illustrations for him
.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Oh, another one.
Yay, I'll put the link in theshow notes, the one you already
illustrated a boy and his fish,cool.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Thank you.
I went out and bought a very,very expensive set of blendable
colored pencils to do some ofthe pre-work.
Well, this is the thing thiscat loves pencils.
She likes to play fetch withthem.
She adores pencils.
She'll like stand at the top ofthe stairs and fling them
downstairs and then chase themand come back out and fetch them
(05:52):
, or you can throw a pencil forher.
I've lost paint brushes.
This way I have to hide all ofmy art supplies, not just for my
daughter, but for my cat.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
From all of your offspring.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yesterday we come out and the dog.
My husband's like what's thedog eating?
Oh no, yep.
You could barely see likecrimson as the color both ends
of the pencil.
It was just like just a tinylittle knot of stick left.
You could just barely tell whatit had been.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
The good news is when your dog poops crimson, you
won't have to worry that he'sbleeding to death.
Yeah, that's created anotherissue today.
We won't have to worry thathe's bleeding to death.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, that's created another issue today.
We're gonna have to do somescrubbing.
Did I mention all the floof?
I know what's happening becausethe cat hates the dog.
So she is leaving pencils,where he will get to them, where
he will eat them, where he willget sick from them.
It's all a plan she's got.
She is evil.
I go back and I'm like okay,where did the pencil go?
And my husband's like youbetter put up all your pencils.
(06:48):
So I went in the dining roomand I started putting them up
and I was like okay, I know Ihad 72 to begin with.
I can count and see how manyare missing.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I thought maybe one or two.
There were 11 pencils missing.
Ripley, we're in the house.
We don't really leave the house.
We're in the house because wework from home, so it's not like
she had a lot of opportunity tojust like walk by us with 11
pencils in her mouth and have usnot notice.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
You would have heard it because there's a wood floor
in the dining room, so as shebatted it off the table, it
would have definitely clunk.
You would have thought yeah,mysterious.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
So I looked and I looked, I looked for hours.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
She had them all stashed away and plus your old
paintbrushes and pens andpencils.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
No, no, no, those are long gone.
It was just the pencils, it wasjust the pencils.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
She finds a new hiding spot for every stash.
Oh my gosh, I guess.
So what a resourceful cat.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Can you imagine how much work it must have taken for
her to like, one by one, takethese pencils out of their case
and take them upstairs and putthem in a pile, in a pile behind
the door of my daughter'sbedroom.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Well, becky, you know what they say when you love
what you do, you never work aday in your life.
That's how your cat feels she'sdestroyed our floors.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
She's destroyed my art supplies.
She's destroying the dog'sintestine poor dog.
I can't boot her out, thoughshe is my child.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
It's like a haunted mirror.
You just can't sell it, youcan't get rid of it.
Why would anybody be willing totake your cat if that's the the
description right there?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
on everything and we'll steal your art supplies we
can no longer afford this cat.
Twenty thousand dollar adoptionfee just to cover expenses this
is the thing like when you seefree kitten.
There's no such thing as a freekitten, such thing as a free
kitten.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
There's no such thing as a free kitten, oh.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
But maybe Hainted Loves.
Maybe one of you can just giveus a little piece of advice.
What do I do with this catbesides just open the door?
Yes, before we go any farther,speaking of our Hainted Loves,
we have a new patron to give ashout out to.
Who is it?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Who is it?
Tell me who?
Who is it?
Tell me, who is it.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Huge shout out to Sharon.
Sharon has joined our Patreonand we are so grateful for you,
sharon, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Thank you, sharon, and welcome.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Welcome to the weirdness.
Aren't you glad you joined?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Come and play with us forever and ever, and ever and
ever, maybe, sharon?
Has some advice for us, sharon,if you can help.
If you're a cat whisperer,please get in touch.
Any cat whisperers listening,please get in touch.
And, while you're at it, belike Sharon and join our Patreon
, because it's awesome and youget all this interesting stuff
plus commercial free episodes,unlike this one.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Oh man, I had a rough day.
What happened, honey?
I was out with the guys andthey well, and, and they said I
wasn't spooky enough.
Oh honey, how could they saythat to you?
You're hella spooky.
You think so, Of course.
After all, you came up with theectoplasm being ghost jizz
theory and you've been scratchedby more horny ghosts than
anyone else.
I know, Well, I suppose you'reright, but if you're really
(10:11):
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Those are super awesome,especially for something with
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What's even better, all theseitems were hand-lettered
(10:31):
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Nikki Malick.
Holy, ghostly cannoli.
That's amazing.
From now on, whenever youbrandish your spooky AF gear, no
one will accuse you of beingboring.
Yeah, I'm spooky AF.
Visit HomespunHatescom for allspooky AF merchandise.
(10:52):
Hello, hainted Loves.
Welcome to Homespun Haints.
I'm Becky and I'm Diana.
Today on the show, we arethrilled to bring on Heather
Green.
I met Heather at Mystic Southin 2024.
(11:16):
She was giving an amazingpresentation on dolls.
She loves all things dolls.
She restores them, she collectsthem, she knows everything
about the history of them and,of course, she knows everything
about the hauntings of dolls.
So, heather, thank you so muchfor being here on the show today
(11:36):
.
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Thank you for having me.
You know I love to talk aboutdolls, so I'm happy to do that
with both of you.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
But dolls aren't the only thing that you're a scholar
in.
You also have a book out Lights, camera Witchcraft, which is
all about how witches areportrayed in the film industry.
How does that relate to dolls?
Are they just both twoobsessions of yours?
How does that all fit together?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I don't know that they do fit together outside of
Chucky and Annabelle.
Of course there's alwaysoverlap, you know.
But I have always loved dolls,just like I've always loved
movies, you know I can't saythat they correspond outside of
just being two obsessions, asyou said.
I grew up watching movies,loving movies, and then studied
(12:23):
them in college.
So I do have I am a filmhistorian, I have degrees in
film history.
You add the occult in and Itold someone this weekend when I
was talking about haunted dolls.
I said if you can find anobsession that's not occult
related and make it occultrelated, your magic becomes more
powerful and it's just morejoyous.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Oh, I like that.
So you mentioned also that youhave loved dolls your entire
life, so I am assuming thatmaybe you even collected them as
a child.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I think my parents collected them for me as a child
probably.
But yes, I did.
And as soon as I had theopportunity myself, when I got
to college I even had my dollsout in my first apartment on a
little shelf some of the mostlyfrom my childhood and then began
collecting Barbies.
Eventually I did sell off a lotof those.
I don't have a whole lot ofthose that collection left, but
(13:12):
I have since, probably in thelast five or six years, started
a collection again and then ofcourse started restoring and all
kinds of other things and itkind of took off and took on its
own life.
What's the oldest doll that Ihave that I finished restoring?
Who's who sits in my collectionis, is um, is these two and I
(13:36):
this one?
Right here, we call herpeekaboo.
Oh, their eyes go um.
Yeah, she's.
Yes, they do um, but I can't.
It's hard to show you there.
There we go, yeah, and she's abisque german doll, um, and she
has a composition jointed body.
So sometime in the 1800s Germanand French industry makers
(13:59):
started to make jointed dollswhich were more fun to play with
.
See, this is the best partEverybody.
This creeps everybody out.
Are you ready?
Yeah, well, if those who arenot watching won't see it, but
what I'm doing is putting herhands over her eyes, peekaboo.
What I'm doing is putting herhands over her eyes Peek-a-boo,
gotcha, but that's the functionof it.
(14:21):
They started to make themjointed so children can have
more realistic play with them.
So she's probably from 1880 or1890.
And she's in pretty goodcondition.
She's got her original dressand everything, so she right now
is the oldest one that I havethat I know of.
There's a couple other jointedones in the back.
I don't have the exact date onyet.
Wow, but that's peekaboo Nice.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Do you restore the dolls in your own home?
Do you have like a studio thatyou work from?
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yes, I do, I have.
We've converted our garage intoan art room because we have
several artists in our house,nice, and so we have a portion
of it is the doll restore areaand the other portion is the
fine art studio, so we do havethat in our garage.
I also am lucky enough to havea.
My partner is an industrialartist and has a massive shop
(15:10):
and studio with all the tools,and so whenever I need anything
a little bit more unique ordifferent or I need some help,
he's always ready to step in andassist.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Before we talk about the dolls that you have that are
haunted, I wanted to touch onsomething that you mentioned in
your lecture which is and I'vementioned this on the show
several times, since I foundthat really influential what you
said that dolls themselvesaren't haunted, except maybe
with the exceptions of Robertthe Doll and Annabelle and some
of those like really, really,really, I guess haunted dolls,
(15:44):
but rather they have portalswithin them.
Am I getting that right?
Is that how you described it?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yeah, that's how I understand it and that's how I
perceive it is that every dollcan be what we know of as
haunted.
In fact, most dolls do containsome energy, even if it's just
from the factory.
Okay, and I differentiatebetween inspirited and sold when
we're talking about haunteddolls.
If you remember from theworkshop, the inspirited dolls,
(16:10):
dolls that, for example, like mylittle peekaboo, has been
around for a hundred plus years,has has pulled in all the
energy from hugs and stuff, sothey get they can get a really
intense haunted like feeling,even though they aren't a portal
for a spirit.
Um, so you have that.
And then you have those thatactually are in sold, the ones
(16:31):
that actually are a portal for aspirit and, like you said, it's
a portal, it's not a box.
A doll can be a box, but 99percent of time I believe and I
haven't looked at every haunteddoll- there is, but they're more
of a portal, a place that aspirit has attached itself to
that comes through from where itis and they come it.
(16:52):
So when you hear thepitter-patter of little feet
across the floor from a spiritthat might be coming through a
doll, it's not the actual doll,it's not the physical doll
that's making the pitter-patter,it's the spirit coming through
the doll making thepitter-patter.
Now, I am not a paranormalinvestigator and, again, I have
(17:12):
not seen every single dollthat's haunted.
However, this is my experienceand I have spoken to a number of
other spirit workers andparanormal investigators that
work with dolls that do agreewith that concept.
Again, that's not to say thatthere aren't dolls out there
that are more like spirit boxes,but most dolls are not.
(17:34):
They're portals, they're aplace that the that the spirit
attaches to, that can comethrough to to communicate with
you or to do what it needs to doin this life got it.
So you know my haunted doll backhere.
She has recently moved to myoffice.
She's behind me, um, and if youcan see, the clown above her is
pointing to her.
She has a white bib and a darkdress.
(17:54):
Um, she is the portal for a, awoman who used to restore dolls.
Who who passed Her name wasMary, so I call the doll Mary
and um, she was living out outof my office in the main room,
but she's since moved in hereand is much happier in here.
We have less spiritdisturbances now, ah, I see.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
So what kind of disturbances did you have when
she was out there?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Mary the doll loved to play Forza 5 on the Xbox.
Basically, we've had encounterswith Mary.
She has come upstairs to ourliving room and given us
messages.
I used to row to communicatewith spirit, so we've had some
(18:41):
communication with her and shejust wants to make sure her
dolls many of which I inherited,including the one that she's
using as a portal I'm okay, soit's a very positive.
She's a very positive spirit,just kind of watching over, but
she was the location where shewas in was right behind our
video game setup that has adriving wheel, and so on
(19:04):
occasion my son would be sittingdown near it doing his thing
and all of a sudden the wheelwould start to, you know,
calibrate or something, but thepower's off and nobody's near it
.
And you can't, it just all of asudden we're good and so she.
She was trying to play, I think, after watching it.
(19:24):
So I said I have a spirit thatlikes fours of five, but that
has not happened since she'smoved in here, she just wanted
to be here where the actiontakes place.
I think this.
This is my office where I work.
I'm an editor at LlewellynWorldwide where I do podcasts,
and my weekly podcast she's nowon that, which she absolutely
loves probably, so she's gettinga little more of a different
(19:45):
type of action.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Well, since you brought it up, tell us about
your podcast.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Sure, the Witches Movie Coven is nine o'clock
Eastern time every Wednesday andwe talk about movies from a
witch's perspective, soeverybody on there identifies in
some way as a witch or a cultpractitioner.
There's five of us and it'slive, so, yeah, so you get to be
in the chat and we respond tothe people in the chat.
(20:10):
We have lots of regulars thatare wonderful and, in fact,
talking about dolls.
One of my co-hosts is PattiNegri, who's a well-known
paranormal investigator, mediumpsychic witch, and her book,
which I did the foreword for, iscalled Dollcraft Awesome.
She talks about poppet magicand dolls and she is a co-lover
(20:30):
of dolls we have lots of.
We could probably talk forhours and hours, she and I, on
the phone about her collectionand our love of dolls, but this
is coming out in June this year.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Now I understand that she actually does have a
haunted doll, correct?
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yes, well, I don't know how her doll is haunted,
but she has Belle, and Belle isalso on the podcast.
She sits right behind Patty,just like Mary does.
Mary and Belle may have a teaparty at some point.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
We're hoping to get them together.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
The haunted doll tea party.
Yeah, we're hoping to get themtogether, but I don't know
exactly whether Belle is aportal or where the spirit's
trapped in Belle.
That's a conversation withPatty, so I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Other than your experiences with Mary, do you
have personal experiences withhauntings in general that you
know kind of have led you intothis world that you would like
to share with us?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
I've always been sensitive, not to spirits in
terms of ghosts like what weknow as ghosts, but to the
energy which is what led me towitchcraft and the occult to
begin with, to know that there'ssomething else more, and I've
always had this sense that therewas.
But over the past five, sixyears I've become increasingly
(21:40):
interested in this practice asmore than just the natural
things that I do in mywitchcraft.
And this really got set offwhen my partner's mother decided
she was going to show up.
I realized maybe I really likethis, I'm very interested in
this work and then also gettinginvolved in dolls and again,
blending those two.
(22:01):
It's pulling at me to do morework with spirits and ghosts.
And one day we were sittingthere and the TV started going
on and off.
We weren't having anyelectrical storms or anything
and we realized at that point Istarted to do communication and
realized it was my partner'smother and she decides she shows
up randomly.
We get a little whiff ofcigarettes and nobody in the
(22:24):
house smokes.
We get a little whiff of coffeeat like three in the afternoon
and nobody drinks coffee in ourhouse at three o'clock in the
afternoon.
Or a TV will go on or a candle,electric candle will go on.
We know that it's her and youknow we say hi and welcome.
Do you have something to say?
Always check to see if she hasa message.
(22:45):
A lot of the time it's justshe's just checking in on him
and he was one of 10 childrenand she was very nurturing and I
think she still pops aroundchecking on her children every
once in a while.
She is not attached to a doll,she just pops in.
It's very funny.
You know, after talking abouther right now, she'll probably
show up later.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
You mentioned several times, communication is key.
What form of communication doyou use?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Tarot is what I use most often.
I find that to be veryeffective for me.
I think if you're getting intothis work at all whether it's
for witchcraft or for paranormalinvestigation beginnings you
have to start with somethingsimple and something that you're
comfortable with.
You know you can't jump intousing Tarot if you've never used
the Tarot before, becausethere's a system to it.
Oracle is a little easier, ofcourse.
(23:34):
Using yes no, like the pendulumI have used pendulum.
One of my children is beginningto get into this and loves the
dowsing rods and will use thoseyes no is the easiest if you're
getting started.
So there's a number of ways todo that, and sometimes intuition
it's the best of all.
I mean, all of thesemethodologies, all of these
(24:00):
modalities need your intuitionto begin with.
You have to learn to trust that, and then you need to pick a
modality that's comfortable foryou and practice and just let
the spirit come, let themessages come, and they will.
It's really, really fun.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Does your, your partner's siblings?
Have they mentioned that theirmom has popped into?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, a couple of them who are more open to it and
sensitive to it have mentionedhave noticed things.
Yeah, we definitely have hadsome things with the other
siblings as well.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Cool, that's nice to know that she's.
She's visiting everybody.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Now I will say that our peekaboo right here, just
getting back to the portal thingportal versus energy is that
this doll right here and I'mholding her and I can feel her
energy has very, very intenseenergy, extremely intense energy
, which is one of the reasonsshe creeps everybody out,
because even though you don'tsense it as energy.
You can't name it.
Everybody that sees her cansense it she has.
(24:52):
I would not be surprised if atsome point, a spirit comes
through her.
It she has.
I would not be surprised atsome point a spirit comes
through her.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Um, it may not be.
It may just be she's been lovedand tossed around and been in a
lot of families, but right now,as far as I can tell, she'd be
a primary target to become aportal.
Um, I don't know what she'slooking at.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
She's looking at claribel oh yes, there you go.
Speaking of claribel.
Claribel is your annabellelook-alike.
She's a Raggedy Ann, can we see?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
her.
She's right here.
Yes, she's right here.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
When I was a kid, I had a doll that looked like that
, but with brown hair.
Is that the same basic idea orthe same company?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
She's Raggedy Ann.
Raggedy Ann always has red hair, but a Ragdoll's a Ragdoll.
I mean you might have just hada knockoff Typical.
Yeah, Raggedy Ann is red hair.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
So that was the exact same model as the classic
Annabelle doll, the one thatyou've got there.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yes, yes, many people who do not follow haunted dolls
.
In truth, they think that theAnnabelle in the movies is what
Annabelle actually looked like.
And that is untrue.
Annabelle is a rag doll thatlooks exactly like this, and
she's right now in a box lockedup because she is very dangerous
(26:08):
like Robert the doll, and soshe's behind glass and I think
in Connecticut is where I thinkshe's locked up glass in, I
think in connecticut is where Ithink she's locked up right.
But yeah, this stall I got formy haunted doll lectures to show
people that the real annabelleis actually just a simple rag
doll and we named her clarabelleum, and she was able to go on
(26:28):
to a pagan convention thisweekend and got and I got lots
of hugs, so she's filled withpositive energy she's not going
to hurt anybody.
She is not haunted.
She looks sweet.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
She is.
I had one too.
Well, I had a Raggedy Ann and aRaggedy Andy, which I don't
hear too much about, the RaggedyAndys, but I guess they were a
thing too.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I think I had one as well.
I remember two, but again Ithink mine were a different
brand or something because theyhad dark hair.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
She was like Annabelle was in the factory and
created sometime in the 60s.
Okay, so exact replica of her.
And so, yeah, she's been wellloved and she got some big hugs.
This weekend I read in a bookabout Japanese doll culture.
An anthropologist talked to alittle girl about her doll and
the doll culture in Japan andwhy they believe dolls can
(27:20):
become inspirited or ensouled,and she said well, if you love
it enough, it will come to life.
I love that.
I love that concept, Because ifyou love it enough and you know
you could actually becomeinspirited in a positive way, it
can become ensouled in apositive way.
And so you wind up I'm'm gonnaput her back right here so you
(27:40):
wind up with understanding whydolls are filled with, with
these positive energy, even ifthey don't actually wind up with
a spirit attached to them.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
They are filled with energy and that's what you're
sensing from her so it feelslike humans have some control
over the fate of their dolls.
If you bought a brand new dollfor your child, took it out of
(28:09):
the packaging, what would you doto ensure that it was full of
love and not able to become aportal for evil in some way?
You know, like how do you takeaction with a brand new doll to
make?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
sure that it just stays an innocent doll doll.
To make sure that it just staysan innocent doll.
Well, if you want it to just bea doll and just a toy, you know
you just love it.
In the Japanese folkloricbelief, the way you treat it is
how the doll will end.
So if you treat it poorly, it'sgoing to fill with negative
energy.
If you love it enough, it willbecome alive, as the little girl
says.
If you love it enough it willbe filled with positive energy.
(28:37):
And you know the like, theblend, and you know you're not
going to hug a doll every twohours or whatever in your
practical lives.
But that's the concept.
It's the filling of that energy, and whatever energy you fill
it with will be there.
It'll remain a cup of cauldronfor that kind of energy.
How to keep it from becoming aportal for a spirit?
Protection methods.
(28:58):
You know the idea that a dollcould potentially become evil.
It's so rare so I don't worryabout that.
The whole Chucky lore it's fun,it's great.
There are a few dolls that areproblematic, but the chance of a
doll coming getting a spiritthat's going to come at you with
a meat cleaver there are wayworse things in our world to
(29:23):
worry about than that.
I wouldn't worry about it.
If you truly have anxiety aboutit, you can.
I actually make little obsidianbracelets for dolls which you
can put on.
If a doll is starting to actfunny, you can surround it in
salt.
You can.
Protection on yourself thereare things you can do, but the
chances of a doll is starting toact funny, you can surround it
in salt, you can protection onyourself.
There are things you can do,but the chances of a doll
becoming evil, um are very rare.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Do you have any theories as to why those dolls
that are purported to be themost evil dolls you know, robert
and annabelle, etc.
How did they end up the waythat they were?
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I think that things can be.
The doll can become a portal inthe way anything can become an
object of obsession for a spirit.
It's not about the doll so muchas it is about what the spirit
wants to accomplish or why thespirit.
So the question is, why is thespirit here?
It's not.
Why is it attached to the doll?
And then the doll just becomesa convenient usage.
(30:14):
So a child, for example, thatdies unexpectedly might then use
their own doll.
Oh, okay, in Japan that'ssimilar the child whose doll it
(30:39):
was died unexpectedly and thenthey used the doll as their
pathway in and that's why it's aportal.
They're connected to thatalready.
Another way to great forancestor work, for example, a
grandmother might use their dollthat their now granddaughter
has as a way in to communicate.
So it's sort of a link to life,a link to their life, or it's a
link to someone they want tocommunicate with or a place.
(31:02):
If a doll is in a place theywant to inhabit, they might use
a doll that's in that place.
So it's no different thananything else, whether it's just
a teacup or a.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Right Dolls may be particularly prone to this, just
because A they'reanthropomorphic and, b they do
receive all of this energy froma child's love.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, they're important to us, so why not
right, If a spirit's trying tomake an impression?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
why not?
Because somebody's treatingthis object like a human.
Yeah, children act as thoughtheir doll is a real human that
they're talking to.
That must be an experience fora spirit who hasn't been spoken
to like a real human in 100years or however long.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah, and that may be another reason that they do it.
I mean, I think the questionagain goes back to what does the
spirit want?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Sure, there's a common horror movie trope about
dolls that you will like.
Dispose of a doll.
That's problematic and the dolljust keeps coming back and you
keep.
Is there any truth to this lore?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
yeah, that's annabelle.
She keep, they keep throwingher out and she keeps coming
back.
I think hollywood um, whathollywood does with witchcraft
and the paranormal when they'rerepresenting it, is they take
something that's difficult tounderstand or project and make
it literal.
So when they say a doll iscoming back, they're going to
(32:24):
actually make it literal becausethey're doing a short it's a
short period of time.
They've got to tell a story.
It's more creepy if the dollactually is burned and then
walks out of the fire and showsback up in your living room.
If you burn most of these dolls,you are not going to have that
doll come back.
That's just not going to happen.
But what can happen and this iswhat I was telling folks this
weekend in my workshop is thatjust because you have destroyed
(32:49):
or thrown out the doll doesn'tmean the spirit's gone, because
it's a portal Right.
So what can come back is thespirit Ridding yourself of the
doll.
The body is not necessarilyridding yourself of a problem.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, I would worry that the spirit would attach to
something else if I destroyedits home.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
While it was in my house.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Right If it's using a doorway, closing the door and
shutting the door and locking itisn't necessarily going to make
the spirit not come and want toknock somewhere else Sure.
And so if you're reallyexperiencing I have one slide in
my presentation say so my dolltried to kill me is the title If
you are really experiencing aproblem with a spirit, whether
(33:27):
it's attached to a doll orattached to anything, you need
to have a professionalparanormal investigator that you
know is legit, that can come in, that has the experience to
handle it, Because, like I said,ridding yourself of the thing
it's attached to is not going tonecessarily rid you.
So the doll itself may not comeback, but the spirit may come
(33:48):
back, which is what Hollywood'ssuggesting, but quite literally
the doll comes back Annabelle.
They keep throwing her out.
She keeps coming back Rightright, right, a little scary In
one of the books that I'veworked on as an editor, called
Unquiet Voices by Rob and NoniDouglas, and I highly recommend
this to anyone who really wantsto dive into paranormal
investigation from an occultperspective not witchcraft, but
(34:11):
an occult perspective.
It's really in depth, great forthe beginner as well as people
who are changing the way theywork with it similar to the way
what I'm doing, but they stressthis as well is that do not do
anything If it's something'sdangerous do not do anything
that you're uncomfortable withor not experienced with.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Get somebody to help.
Well, that goes for anything,not just in the occult.
Don't run a chemistryexperiment unless you know what
you're doing Plumbing electricwork.
Yeah, so I had a situationwhere I had acquired some dolls
because people just send them tous, and Diana was Diana and I
are in different states Diana'sin Tulsa, I'm here in Atlanta,
so Diana was visiting and shewas staying in my basement and I
had the dolls in the room thatI'm in now, before it was
(34:56):
refinished, before it wasrefinished, and both her and my
husband, at various pointsthroughout this period, saw like
the light was in this room andthey saw what looked like a
shadow of little feet walking byunder the door.
So are you saying that thatwasn't physically the doll
getting up and moving?
(35:16):
That was the spirit somehow.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
I guessing, I'm, I'm guessing it was the spirit that
was causing that, not the doll'sfeet.
I mean it's using, it's usingthe reflection of the doll, it's
using the energy of the doll tocreate that, but it's not the
actual doll.
I'm sure if you went in therethe doll was probably still
sitting exactly where you put it.
Yeah, and that's when peoplesay well, it's not haunted,
you're making this up becausethe doll actually hasn't moved.
(35:40):
I've never had a doll come andhop up on the couch next to me.
Mary doesn't move, mary's rightthere.
If people say they and theyhave said I sense Mary moving,
it's the energy, it's a spiritthat's circling or coming in and
out of her.
You know, I'm saying that now,watch.
Tomorrow I'll be like callingyou guys back.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Mary just drove my car off right, Keeping a really
close eye on her right now, justin case she waves.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
She realized she could turn the Xbox on herself.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
But yeah, it's usually just the spirit.
Now again, I am not aparanormal investigator, so
that's a really good question toask for people who have gone
and seen lots and lots of dollsand other types of things to see
.
This is from my perspective andmy experience with dolls.
I have over 1500 dolls in myhouse right now in various
states of restoration, and Ialso resell them.
(36:30):
So I have from new to modernand all of them are filled with
energy, because they're all olddolls that I take in.
None of them have moved bythemselves, but they all have
energy floating around them.
So things do shift and changewith them, especially as they
interact with each other andthey speak to me as spirit and
energy speaks to you.
(36:51):
And of course, then there'sMary and Peekaboo and another.
So that's my experience withdolls.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Another thing that I learned from listening to you is
that there's certain plasticdolls that will develop a toxic
mold over time.
Oh yes, and you have to be very, very careful when you restore
them.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
That's a bad kind of haunting.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Tell us about that so people can avoid that If
anybody out there decides theywant to be an amateur doll
restorer.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, if you're restoring dolls, even if you're
not restoring dolls, if you wantto buy an old doll, because you
either are hoping for a haunteddoll or you just want to
collect an old doll, or forwhatever purposes, use it for
magic.
Old dolls are wonderful forthat.
If you pick one of them up andit smells like what I call
cheese vomit, you've got yeah,that's a demon of a different
sort.
You have a doll that's filledwith mold and what that is is
(37:41):
plastics don't last forever andeventually the plastics start to
emit chemicals, they start tobreak down and, for other
reasons, the metals that areresting inside these dolls
interact with those plasticsthat they break down and so, as
that happens, certain types ofmold can form and there's
different types of mold and fordifferent reasons, whether it's
(38:01):
the interaction with the metal,whether it's the breaking down
the molds feeding off thebreaking down the plastic.
Sometimes they look like theyhave a white coating over them
in patches, sometimes it's darkgray, greenish, dark gray.
It's very toxic.
When I get one of these dolls,I have to treat it very
carefully, I have to demold itand I have to treat it very
carefully.
I have to demold it and I haveways of doing it, but there are
dolls that there are dolls thatjust are too far gone and it's
(38:24):
just, it's not worth it and I'vehad to, unfortunately, throw
those out.
But I have saved a few dolls,but again, they don't last
forever.
If you have a, an American Girldoll, for example, some of the
90s ones are already breakingdown.
I haven't seen a moldy one,plastic mold anyway but they
start to like, look yellow, ortheir vinyl starts to change
(38:46):
color.
A lot of dolls from the 70salso.
You might notice your old dolls.
You pull them out and they have, like their skin, stoning
places is yellow.
That's the plastic breakingdown and distorting.
Whoa, they're not meant to lastforever.
This girl right here I'm goingto show you this is gladys.
She was born in 1906 and she'smade a bisque and they stopped
(39:09):
using bisque because it was sobreakable.
The girls would throw it andit'd crack and break.
But it turns out she's 100 andsomething years old and looks
perfect still, yeah, whereasnewer dolls that are of these
plastics not so much, notlasting as long.
Composition is.
I have a composition doll I'llshow you those are the ones that
look cracked right Over time.
(39:29):
Yes, I have one I haven'trestored yet.
I just got her she'scomposition.
This is not a very good exampleof crazing which is the
cracking.
This is not a very good exampleof crazing which is the
cracking.
But what happens with them isthat the material is made out of
a pulped wood and glue that'smashed together and formed into
the doll shape and then coatedand painted.
(39:49):
So if moisture gets inside,they start to expand, causing
all those the cracks, the famouscracks that make it look like a
haunted doll.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Ah, okay Gotcha.
The crazing is just from thewood pulp expanding with wetness
.
That's all it is.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
It's not because it's haunted, you know I always say
just because a doll looks likeit's haunted doesn't mean it is
haunted.
In fact there's so manyfabulous haunted looking dolls
that are probably not haunted.
There was just some artisthaving fun trying to make a
Halloween doll.
But yeah, so it turns out,these older dolls out of this
bisque material, if they haven'tbeen broken they're actually
(40:23):
the longest lasting, becauseeventually plastic breaks down.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
This has been a very enlightening and entertaining,
fun conversation.
Thank you so much, Heather, forcoming on the show and talking
about all of these not quitehaunted and yet not quite not
haunted situations.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
I have loved this conversation.
I loved your workshop that youdid, Heather.
This has been so much fun.
I'm so glad that we got to dothis.
I just want to make sureeverybody knows where they can
find you.
Your website is heathergreennet.
You have your articles on there.
You have links to where peoplecan purchase your book.
(41:02):
Are there any other places thatyou would like people to go?
Look you up?
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Sure, my website is a good starting point.
I also a lot of my articles arefound on Religion News Service
and Religion Unplugged.
I am a journalist as well inthis area and I am on the board
of Mystic South, so I'm alwaysat Mystic South doing one thing
or the other.
So please come and visit us inAtlanta in July that would be
super fun.
And and every Wednesday at theWitches Movie, coven at 9pm
(41:30):
Eastern.
We're on YouTube and Facebook.
We're live and talking aboutmovies.
We do every every type of moviehorror and fantasy and
everything that has magic in it.
So that's another place you canfind me and I'm on the socials,
and those socials you can findon your website too.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Absolutely Heather again, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Thank you and Hainted Loves.
What do you think If you had adoll in your house that you knew
something was coming through?
What would you do with it?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
other than have a spooky day.
Homespun haints is hosted bybecky kalimnick and diana dodie
and produced by homespun haintsmedia llc.
Editing and music by beckykalimnick.
Show notes by diana dodie.
If you have a ghost story andyou'd like to be considered as a
guest for this podcast, pleasevisit our website at
homespunhaintscom.
(42:24):
Slash submit.
It's late at night and everyone is asleep.
You wake up to a sound and justbeyond the veil of sleep, you
hear the pitter-patter of littlefeet.
What was that?
You look over at the antiquebisque doll sitting on top of
your dresser, was it?
No, it couldn't have been,could it?
Was the doll taking a strollwhile you slept.
(00:26):
Our guest, heather Green, is anexpert on haunted dolls and the
occult and how these themes areportrayed in film Plus.
We'll meet some of her dollsand learn which ones are
actually inspirited.
Today on Homespun Haints.
Hello, hainted Loves, welcometo Homespun hates.
I am becky and I am diana, andtoday, for you, we're going to
(00:50):
talk about haunted dolls.
Yet again.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Why is this such a popular topic, becky?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
oh well, I don't know , maybe it's because they're
really cool.
Oh yes, I have a bat on my head.
You do yes, this is a gift fromLady Teal, of Lady Teal's
Curios.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I've had a real bat in my hair.
That sounds unpleasant.
Oh no, it was adorable.
I was in Delphi and I waswatching the sunset over this
beautiful gorge and this littleadorable bat just flew right
into my hair and snuggled upnext to my neck and it didn't
move because I'd never touched abat before.
So I just let it sit there andthen just flew away.
It was so sweet and innocent.
(01:31):
And then, you know, 10 yearslater, a bat got in my house and
I freaked out.
And that wasn't no, so itdidn't train me to love bats,
unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Delphine bats don't have rabies because they're
actually oracles.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
That's probably true.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Well, speaking of adorable things, yes, we're
going to be talking about dollstoday.
We are going to be interviewingHeather Green, who is just a
delightful person to talk to.
She is also a film historian, adoll restorer, a doll historian
all of the things.
She also has her own podcastabout dolls and hauntings and
(02:05):
movies you don't say Wellspeaking of adorable things, you
know, we have so much floof inour house.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Are your children getting hairy yet?
Do they count or no?
Speaker 1 (02:15):
No, no, I'm talking about the quadrupeds.
We have Ella, that you guyshave seen on this show multiple
times, so many times she's shorthair.
And then we have Egon, who isthe Kazon puppy, who is just
floof.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I think it'd be really cute if you put a corset
on him, because he'd have acinched waist with all that.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Oh my god he would, but the floofmeister that we
have is Ripley Ripley the cat.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
And she was nice to me for the first time ever in my
years and years of knowing her.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
She's so mean to everybody, she's just like awful
, a little asshole.
So well I say little.
This cat is enormous, she's abig asshole.
We're still not quite sure whatshe is.
They said cat on the adoptionpapers.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
She's already done five figures worth of damage to
your house.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Oh yeah, okay yeah, let me get started here.
Okay.
So this cat, first of all.
She is very cute, that's true.
She's got that going for her.
Just a gorgeous floofy chonk.
Like you pick her up and youcan just feel the chonk like
warbling under the soft fur.
But this cat, I swear, that'sall she's got going for her.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
She's lovely from a distance.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
She's mean you can't snuggle with her right Because
she'll just like try to biteyour nose.
And yes, as you mentioned Diana, she did thousands and
thousands of dollars worth ofdamage to our house by peeing on
the carpet she got up on, likemy son's.
First of all, she was peeing inhis trash can, which seems
impossible.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
If she can do that, she can pee in the toilet.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
She won't pee in the toilet, she won't pee in the
litter box, but but, and it'snot out of spite, like this poor
cat.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I mean, she did use the trash can.
She's like well, it's waste.
We removed the trash canbecause the cleaning ladies like
freaked out when they saw it.
They're like, which one of yourchildren did this?
And I'm like the fuzzy one.
So then she was like backingher butt up to the wall behind
the dresser and peeing down thewall and onto the floor and of
(04:28):
course we kept like there was asmell in the room.
We couldn't find it and itwasn't until we moved the
dresser out and we realized ithad soaked all the way through
the subfloor.
The floor is just completelyruined.
We have to rip out all of thecarpet, put in hardwoods
upstairs.
Yeah, that was not cheap.
I've started teaching violinand I got some like nice flyers
(04:48):
printed and somehow okay, thiscat has no opposable thumb.
She's not like a Hemingway, nota polydactyl cat, but somehow
she managed to get a hold ofthose flyers, drag them like 50
feet to the other end of thebasement and then took a big old
dump on them.
I'm like, why do we keep thiscat?
(05:11):
I'm at my wit's end.
So, sean Nigro if you rememberhim from the Writer's Block
podcast and Eight Sparks Media,he is also a children's book
author and he's commissioned meto do some illustrations for him
.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Oh, another one.
Yay, I'll put the link in theshow notes, the one you already
illustrated a boy and his fish,cool.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Thank you.
I went out and bought a very,very expensive set of blendable
colored pencils to do some ofthe pre-work.
Well, this is the thing thiscat loves pencils.
She likes to play fetch withthem.
She adores pencils.
She'll like stand at the top ofthe stairs and fling them
downstairs and then chase themand come back out and fetch them
(05:52):
, or you can throw a pencil forher.
I've lost paint brushes.
This way I have to hide all ofmy art supplies, not just for my
daughter, but for my cat.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
From all of your offspring.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yesterday we come out and the dog.
My husband's like what's thedog eating?
Oh no, yep.
You could barely see likecrimson as the color both ends
of the pencil.
It was just like just a tinylittle knot of stick left.
You could just barely tell whatit had been.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
The good news is when your dog poops crimson, you
won't have to worry that he'sbleeding to death.
Yeah, that's created anotherissue today.
We won't have to worry thathe's bleeding to death.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, that's created another issue today.
We're gonna have to do somescrubbing.
Did I mention all the floof?
I know what's happening becausethe cat hates the dog.
So she is leaving pencils,where he will get to them, where
he will eat them, where he willget sick from them.
It's all a plan she's got.
She is evil.
I go back and I'm like okay,where did the pencil go?
And my husband's like youbetter put up all your pencils.
(06:48):
So I went in the dining roomand I started putting them up
and I was like okay, I know Ihad 72 to begin with.
I can count and see how manyare missing.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I thought maybe one or two.
There were 11 pencils missing.
Ripley, we're in the house.
We don't really leave the house.
We're in the house because wework from home, so it's not like
she had a lot of opportunity tojust like walk by us with 11
pencils in her mouth and have usnot notice.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
You would have heard it because there's a wood floor
in the dining room, so as shebatted it off the table, it
would have definitely clunk.
You would have thought yeah,mysterious.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
So I looked and I looked, I looked for hours.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
She had them all stashed away and plus your old
paintbrushes and pens andpencils.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
No, no, no, those are long gone.
It was just the pencils, it wasjust the pencils.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
She finds a new hiding spot for every stash.
Oh my gosh, I guess.
So what a resourceful cat.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Can you imagine how much work it must have taken for
her to like, one by one, takethese pencils out of their case
and take them upstairs and putthem in a pile, in a pile behind
the door of my daughter'sbedroom.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Well, becky, you know what they say when you love
what you do, you never work aday in your life.
That's how your cat feels she'sdestroyed our floors.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
She's destroyed my art supplies.
She's destroying the dog'sintestine poor dog.
I can't boot her out, thoughshe is my child.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
It's like a haunted mirror.
You just can't sell it, youcan't get rid of it.
Why would anybody be willing totake your cat if that's the the
description right there?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
on everything and we'll steal your art supplies we
can no longer afford this cat.
Twenty thousand dollar adoptionfee just to cover expenses this
is the thing like when you seefree kitten.
There's no such thing as a freekitten, such thing as a free
kitten.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
There's no such thing as a free kitten, oh.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
But maybe Hainted Loves.
Maybe one of you can just giveus a little piece of advice.
What do I do with this catbesides just open the door?
Yes, before we go any farther,speaking of our Hainted Loves,
we have a new patron to give ashout out to.
Who is it?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Who is it?
Tell me who?
Who is it?
Tell me, who is it.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Huge shout out to Sharon.
Sharon has joined our Patreonand we are so grateful for you,
sharon, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Thank you, sharon, and welcome.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Welcome to the weirdness.
Aren't you glad you joined?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Come and play with us forever and ever, and ever and
ever, maybe, sharon?
Has some advice for us, sharon,if you can help.
If you're a cat whisperer,please get in touch.
Any cat whisperers listening,please get in touch.
And, while you're at it, belike Sharon and join our Patreon
, because it's awesome and youget all this interesting stuff
plus commercial free episodes,unlike this one.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Oh man, I had a rough day.
What happened, honey?
I was out with the guys andthey well, and, and they said I
wasn't spooky enough.
Oh honey, how could they saythat to you?
You're hella spooky.
You think so, Of course.
After all, you came up with theectoplasm being ghost jizz
theory and you've been scratchedby more horny ghosts than
anyone else.
I know, Well, I suppose you'reright, but if you're really
(10:11):
worried about it, I have justthe thing.
Oh wow, a spooky AF t-shirt.
That's right.
Our spooky AF line comes inshirt, sweatshirt, pillow and
even a high quality mug man.
Those are super awesome,especially for something with
profanity on it.
What's even better, all theseitems were hand-lettered
(10:31):
exclusively from Homespun Hatesby world-renowned calligrapher
Nikki Malick.
Holy, ghostly cannoli.
That's amazing.
From now on, whenever youbrandish your spooky AF gear, no
one will accuse you of beingboring.
Yeah, I'm spooky AF.
Visit HomespunHatescom for allspooky AF merchandise.
(10:52):
Hello, hainted Loves.
Welcome to Homespun Haints.
I'm Becky and I'm Diana.
Today on the show, we arethrilled to bring on Heather
Green.
I met Heather at Mystic Southin 2024.
(11:16):
She was giving an amazingpresentation on dolls.
She loves all things dolls.
She restores them, she collectsthem, she knows everything
about the history of them and,of course, she knows everything
about the hauntings of dolls.
So, heather, thank you so muchfor being here on the show today
(11:36):
.
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Thank you for having me.
You know I love to talk aboutdolls, so I'm happy to do that
with both of you.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
But dolls aren't the only thing that you're a scholar
in.
You also have a book out Lights, camera Witchcraft, which is
all about how witches areportrayed in the film industry.
How does that relate to dolls?
Are they just both twoobsessions of yours?
How does that all fit together?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I don't know that they do fit together outside of
Chucky and Annabelle.
Of course there's alwaysoverlap, you know.
But I have always loved dolls,just like I've always loved
movies, you know I can't saythat they correspond outside of
just being two obsessions, asyou said.
I grew up watching movies,loving movies, and then studied
(12:23):
them in college.
So I do have I am a filmhistorian, I have degrees in
film history.
You add the occult in and Itold someone this weekend when I
was talking about haunted dolls.
I said if you can find anobsession that's not occult
related and make it occultrelated, your magic becomes more
powerful and it's just morejoyous.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Oh, I like that.
So you mentioned also that youhave loved dolls your entire
life, so I am assuming thatmaybe you even collected them as
a child.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I think my parents collected them for me as a child
probably.
But yes, I did.
And as soon as I had theopportunity myself, when I got
to college I even had my dollsout in my first apartment on a
little shelf some of the mostlyfrom my childhood and then began
collecting Barbies.
Eventually I did sell off a lotof those.
I don't have a whole lot ofthose that collection left, but
(13:12):
I have since, probably in thelast five or six years, started
a collection again and then ofcourse started restoring and all
kinds of other things and itkind of took off and took on its
own life.
What's the oldest doll that Ihave that I finished restoring?
Who's who sits in my collectionis, is um, is these two and I
(13:36):
this one?
Right here, we call herpeekaboo.
Oh, their eyes go um.
Yeah, she's.
Yes, they do um, but I can't.
It's hard to show you there.
There we go, yeah, and she's abisque german doll, um, and she
has a composition jointed body.
So sometime in the 1800s Germanand French industry makers
(13:59):
started to make jointed dollswhich were more fun to play with
.
See, this is the best partEverybody.
This creeps everybody out.
Are you ready?
Yeah, well, if those who arenot watching won't see it, but
what I'm doing is putting herhands over her eyes, peekaboo.
What I'm doing is putting herhands over her eyes Peek-a-boo,
gotcha, but that's the functionof it.
(14:21):
They started to make themjointed so children can have
more realistic play with them.
So she's probably from 1880 or1890.
And she's in pretty goodcondition.
She's got her original dressand everything, so she right now
is the oldest one that I havethat I know of.
There's a couple other jointedones in the back.
I don't have the exact date onyet.
Wow, but that's peekaboo Nice.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Do you restore the dolls in your own home?
Do you have like a studio thatyou work from?
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yes, I do, I have.
We've converted our garage intoan art room because we have
several artists in our house,nice, and so we have a portion
of it is the doll restore areaand the other portion is the
fine art studio, so we do havethat in our garage.
I also am lucky enough to havea.
My partner is an industrialartist and has a massive shop
(15:10):
and studio with all the tools,and so whenever I need anything
a little bit more unique ordifferent or I need some help,
he's always ready to step in andassist.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Before we talk about the dolls that you have that are
haunted, I wanted to touch onsomething that you mentioned in
your lecture which is and I'vementioned this on the show
several times, since I foundthat really influential what you
said that dolls themselvesaren't haunted, except maybe
with the exceptions of Robertthe Doll and Annabelle and some
of those like really, really,really, I guess haunted dolls,
(15:44):
but rather they have portalswithin them.
Am I getting that right?
Is that how you described it?
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yeah, that's how I understand it and that's how I
perceive it is that every dollcan be what we know of as
haunted.
In fact, most dolls do containsome energy, even if it's just
from the factory.
Okay, and I differentiatebetween inspirited and sold when
we're talking about haunteddolls.
If you remember from theworkshop, the inspirited dolls,
(16:10):
dolls that, for example, like mylittle peekaboo, has been
around for a hundred plus years,has has pulled in all the
energy from hugs and stuff, sothey get they can get a really
intense haunted like feeling,even though they aren't a portal
for a spirit.
Um, so you have that.
And then you have those thatactually are in sold, the ones
(16:31):
that actually are a portal for aspirit and, like you said, it's
a portal, it's not a box.
A doll can be a box, but 99percent of time I believe and I
haven't looked at every haunteddoll- there is, but they're more
of a portal, a place that aspirit has attached itself to
that comes through from where itis and they come it.
(16:52):
So when you hear thepitter-patter of little feet
across the floor from a spiritthat might be coming through a
doll, it's not the actual doll,it's not the physical doll
that's making the pitter-patter,it's the spirit coming through
the doll making thepitter-patter.
Now, I am not a paranormalinvestigator and, again, I have
(17:12):
not seen every single dollthat's haunted.
However, this is my experienceand I have spoken to a number of
other spirit workers andparanormal investigators that
work with dolls that do agreewith that concept.
Again, that's not to say thatthere aren't dolls out there
that are more like spirit boxes,but most dolls are not.
(17:34):
They're portals, they're aplace that the that the spirit
attaches to, that can comethrough to to communicate with
you or to do what it needs to doin this life got it.
So you know my haunted doll backhere.
She has recently moved to myoffice.
She's behind me, um, and if youcan see, the clown above her is
pointing to her.
She has a white bib and a darkdress.
(17:54):
Um, she is the portal for a, awoman who used to restore dolls.
Who who passed Her name wasMary, so I call the doll Mary
and um, she was living out outof my office in the main room,
but she's since moved in hereand is much happier in here.
We have less spiritdisturbances now, ah, I see.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
So what kind of disturbances did you have when
she was out there?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Mary the doll loved to play Forza 5 on the Xbox.
Basically, we've had encounterswith Mary.
She has come upstairs to ourliving room and given us
messages.
I used to row to communicatewith spirit, so we've had some
(18:41):
communication with her and shejust wants to make sure her
dolls many of which I inherited,including the one that she's
using as a portal I'm okay, soit's a very positive.
She's a very positive spirit,just kind of watching over, but
she was the location where shewas in was right behind our
video game setup that has adriving wheel, and so on
(19:04):
occasion my son would be sittingdown near it doing his thing
and all of a sudden the wheelwould start to, you know,
calibrate or something, but thepower's off and nobody's near it
.
And you can't, it just all of asudden we're good and so she.
She was trying to play, I think, after watching it.
(19:24):
So I said I have a spirit thatlikes fours of five, but that
has not happened since she'smoved in here, she just wanted
to be here where the actiontakes place.
I think this.
This is my office where I work.
I'm an editor at LlewellynWorldwide where I do podcasts,
and my weekly podcast she's nowon that, which she absolutely
loves probably, so she's gettinga little more of a different
(19:45):
type of action.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Well, since you brought it up, tell us about
your podcast.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Sure, the Witches Movie Coven is nine o'clock
Eastern time every Wednesday andwe talk about movies from a
witch's perspective, soeverybody on there identifies in
some way as a witch or a cultpractitioner.
There's five of us and it'slive, so, yeah, so you get to be
in the chat and we respond tothe people in the chat.
(20:10):
We have lots of regulars thatare wonderful and, in fact,
talking about dolls.
One of my co-hosts is PattiNegri, who's a well-known
paranormal investigator, mediumpsychic witch, and her book,
which I did the foreword for, iscalled Dollcraft Awesome.
She talks about poppet magicand dolls and she is a co-lover
(20:30):
of dolls we have lots of.
We could probably talk forhours and hours, she and I, on
the phone about her collectionand our love of dolls, but this
is coming out in June this year.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Now I understand that she actually does have a
haunted doll, correct?
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Yes, well, I don't know how her doll is haunted,
but she has Belle, and Belle isalso on the podcast.
She sits right behind Patty,just like Mary does.
Mary and Belle may have a teaparty at some point.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
We're hoping to get them together.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
The haunted doll tea party.
Yeah, we're hoping to get themtogether, but I don't know
exactly whether Belle is aportal or where the spirit's
trapped in Belle.
That's a conversation withPatty, so I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Other than your experiences with Mary, do you
have personal experiences withhauntings in general that you
know kind of have led you intothis world that you would like
to share with us?
Speaker 3 (21:20):
I've always been sensitive, not to spirits in
terms of ghosts like what weknow as ghosts, but to the
energy which is what led me towitchcraft and the occult to
begin with, to know that there'ssomething else more, and I've
always had this sense that therewas.
But over the past five, sixyears I've become increasingly
(21:40):
interested in this practice asmore than just the natural
things that I do in mywitchcraft.
And this really got set offwhen my partner's mother decided
she was going to show up.
I realized maybe I really likethis, I'm very interested in
this work and then also gettinginvolved in dolls and again,
blending those two.
(22:01):
It's pulling at me to do morework with spirits and ghosts.
And one day we were sittingthere and the TV started going
on and off.
We weren't having anyelectrical storms or anything
and we realized at that point Istarted to do communication and
realized it was my partner'smother and she decides she shows
up randomly.
We get a little whiff ofcigarettes and nobody in the
(22:24):
house smokes.
We get a little whiff of coffeeat like three in the afternoon
and nobody drinks coffee in ourhouse at three o'clock in the
afternoon.
Or a TV will go on or a candle,electric candle will go on.
We know that it's her and youknow we say hi and welcome.
Do you have something to say?
Always check to see if she hasa message.
(22:45):
A lot of the time it's justshe's just checking in on him
and he was one of 10 childrenand she was very nurturing and I
think she still pops aroundchecking on her children every
once in a while.
She is not attached to a doll,she just pops in.
It's very funny.
You know, after talking abouther right now, she'll probably
show up later.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
You mentioned several times, communication is key.
What form of communication doyou use?
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Tarot is what I use most often.
I find that to be veryeffective for me.
I think if you're getting intothis work at all whether it's
for witchcraft or for paranormalinvestigation beginnings you
have to start with somethingsimple and something that you're
comfortable with.
You know you can't jump intousing Tarot if you've never used
the Tarot before, becausethere's a system to it.
Oracle is a little easier, ofcourse.
(23:34):
Using yes no, like the pendulumI have used pendulum.
One of my children is beginningto get into this and loves the
dowsing rods and will use thoseyes no is the easiest if you're
getting started.
So there's a number of ways todo that, and sometimes intuition
it's the best of all.
I mean, all of thesemethodologies, all of these
(24:00):
modalities need your intuitionto begin with.
You have to learn to trust that, and then you need to pick a
modality that's comfortable foryou and practice and just let
the spirit come, let themessages come, and they will.
It's really, really fun.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Does your, your partner's siblings?
Have they mentioned that theirmom has popped into?
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah, a couple of them who are more open to it and
sensitive to it have mentionedhave noticed things.
Yeah, we definitely have hadsome things with the other
siblings as well.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Cool, that's nice to know that she's.
She's visiting everybody.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Now I will say that our peekaboo right here, just
getting back to the portal thingportal versus energy is that
this doll right here and I'mholding her and I can feel her
energy has very, very intenseenergy, extremely intense energy
, which is one of the reasonsshe creeps everybody out,
because even though you don'tsense it as energy.
You can't name it.
Everybody that sees her cansense it she has.
(24:52):
I would not be surprised if atsome point, a spirit comes
through her.
It she has.
I would not be surprised atsome point a spirit comes
through her.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Um, it may not be.
It may just be she's been lovedand tossed around and been in a
lot of families, but right now,as far as I can tell, she'd be
a primary target to become aportal.
Um, I don't know what she'slooking at.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
She's looking at claribel oh yes, there you go.
Speaking of claribel.
Claribel is your annabellelook-alike.
She's a Raggedy Ann, can we see?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
her.
She's right here.
Yes, she's right here.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
When I was a kid, I had a doll that looked like that
, but with brown hair.
Is that the same basic idea orthe same company?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
She's Raggedy Ann.
Raggedy Ann always has red hair, but a Ragdoll's a Ragdoll.
I mean you might have just hada knockoff Typical.
Yeah, Raggedy Ann is red hair.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
So that was the exact same model as the classic
Annabelle doll, the one thatyou've got there.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Yes, yes, many people who do not follow haunted dolls
.
In truth, they think that theAnnabelle in the movies is what
Annabelle actually looked like.
And that is untrue.
Annabelle is a rag doll thatlooks exactly like this, and
she's right now in a box lockedup because she is very dangerous
(26:08):
like Robert the doll, and soshe's behind glass and I think
in Connecticut is where I thinkshe's locked up glass in, I
think in connecticut is where Ithink she's locked up right.
But yeah, this stall I got formy haunted doll lectures to show
people that the real annabelleis actually just a simple rag
doll and we named her clarabelleum, and she was able to go on
(26:28):
to a pagan convention thisweekend and got and I got lots
of hugs, so she's filled withpositive energy she's not going
to hurt anybody.
She is not haunted.
She looks sweet.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
She is.
I had one too.
Well, I had a Raggedy Ann and aRaggedy Andy, which I don't
hear too much about, the RaggedyAndys, but I guess they were a
thing too.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I think I had one as well.
I remember two, but again Ithink mine were a different
brand or something because theyhad dark hair.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
She was like Annabelle was in the factory and
created sometime in the 60s.
Okay, so exact replica of her.
And so, yeah, she's been wellloved and she got some big hugs.
This weekend I read in a bookabout Japanese doll culture.
An anthropologist talked to alittle girl about her doll and
the doll culture in Japan andwhy they believe dolls can
(27:20):
become inspirited or ensouled,and she said well, if you love
it enough, it will come to life.
I love that.
I love that concept, Because ifyou love it enough and you know
you could actually becomeinspirited in a positive way, it
can become ensouled in apositive way.
And so you wind up I'm'm gonnaput her back right here so you
(27:40):
wind up with understanding whydolls are filled with, with
these positive energy, even ifthey don't actually wind up with
a spirit attached to them.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
They are filled with energy and that's what you're
sensing from her so it feelslike humans have some control
over the fate of their dolls.
If you bought a brand new dollfor your child, took it out of
(28:09):
the packaging, what would you doto ensure that it was full of
love and not able to become aportal for evil in some way?
You know, like how do you takeaction with a brand new doll to
make?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
sure that it just stays an innocent doll doll.
To make sure that it just staysan innocent doll.
Well, if you want it to just bea doll and just a toy, you know
you just love it.
In the Japanese folkloricbelief, the way you treat it is
how the doll will end.
So if you treat it poorly, it'sgoing to fill with negative
energy.
If you love it enough, it willbecome alive, as the little girl
says.
If you love it enough it willbe filled with positive energy.
(28:37):
And you know the like, theblend, and you know you're not
going to hug a doll every twohours or whatever in your
practical lives.
But that's the concept.
It's the filling of that energy, and whatever energy you fill
it with will be there.
It'll remain a cup of cauldronfor that kind of energy.
How to keep it from becoming aportal for a spirit?
Protection methods.
(28:58):
You know the idea that a dollcould potentially become evil.
It's so rare so I don't worryabout that.
The whole Chucky lore it's fun,it's great.
There are a few dolls that areproblematic, but the chance of a
doll coming getting a spiritthat's going to come at you with
a meat cleaver there are wayworse things in our world to
(29:23):
worry about than that.
I wouldn't worry about it.
If you truly have anxiety aboutit, you can.
I actually make little obsidianbracelets for dolls which you
can put on.
If a doll is starting to actfunny, you can surround it in
salt.
You can.
Protection on yourself thereare things you can do, but the
chances of a doll is starting toact funny, you can surround it
in salt, you can protection onyourself.
There are things you can do,but the chances of a doll
becoming evil, um are very rare.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Do you have any theories as to why those dolls
that are purported to be themost evil dolls you know, robert
and annabelle, etc.
How did they end up the waythat they were?
Speaker 3 (29:51):
I think that things can be.
The doll can become a portal inthe way anything can become an
object of obsession for a spirit.
It's not about the doll so muchas it is about what the spirit
wants to accomplish or why thespirit.
So the question is, why is thespirit here?
It's not.
Why is it attached to the doll?
And then the doll just becomesa convenient usage.
(30:14):
So a child, for example, thatdies unexpectedly might then use
their own doll.
Oh, okay, in Japan that'ssimilar the child whose doll it
(30:39):
was died unexpectedly and thenthey used the doll as their
pathway in and that's why it's aportal.
They're connected to thatalready.
Another way to great forancestor work, for example, a
grandmother might use their dollthat their now granddaughter
has as a way in to communicate.
So it's sort of a link to life,a link to their life, or it's a
link to someone they want tocommunicate with or a place.
(31:02):
If a doll is in a place theywant to inhabit, they might use
a doll that's in that place.
So it's no different thananything else, whether it's just
a teacup or a.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Right Dolls may be particularly prone to this, just
because A they'reanthropomorphic and, b they do
receive all of this energy froma child's love.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, they're important to us, so why not
right, If a spirit's trying tomake an impression?
Speaker 2 (31:30):
why not?
Because somebody's treatingthis object like a human.
Yeah, children act as thoughtheir doll is a real human that
they're talking to.
That must be an experience fora spirit who hasn't been spoken
to like a real human in 100years or however long.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah, and that may be another reason that they do it.
I mean, I think the questionagain goes back to what does the
spirit want?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Sure, there's a common horror movie trope about
dolls that you will like.
Dispose of a doll.
That's problematic and the dolljust keeps coming back and you
keep.
Is there any truth to this lore?
Speaker 3 (32:04):
yeah, that's annabelle.
She keep, they keep throwingher out and she keeps coming
back.
I think hollywood um, whathollywood does with witchcraft
and the paranormal when they'rerepresenting it, is they take
something that's difficult tounderstand or project and make
it literal.
So when they say a doll iscoming back, they're going to
(32:24):
actually make it literal becausethey're doing a short it's a
short period of time.
They've got to tell a story.
It's more creepy if the dollactually is burned and then
walks out of the fire and showsback up in your living room.
If you burn most of these dolls,you are not going to have that
doll come back.
That's just not going to happen.
But what can happen and this iswhat I was telling folks this
weekend in my workshop is thatjust because you have destroyed
(32:49):
or thrown out the doll doesn'tmean the spirit's gone, because
it's a portal Right.
So what can come back is thespirit Ridding yourself of the
doll.
The body is not necessarilyridding yourself of a problem.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, I would worry that the spirit would attach to
something else if I destroyedits home.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
While it was in my house.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Right If it's using a doorway, closing the door and
shutting the door and locking itisn't necessarily going to make
the spirit not come and want toknock somewhere else Sure.
And so if you're reallyexperiencing I have one slide in
my presentation say so my dolltried to kill me is the title If
you are really experiencing aproblem with a spirit, whether
(33:27):
it's attached to a doll orattached to anything, you need
to have a professionalparanormal investigator that you
know is legit, that can come in, that has the experience to
handle it, Because, like I said,ridding yourself of the thing
it's attached to is not going tonecessarily rid you.
So the doll itself may not comeback, but the spirit may come
(33:48):
back, which is what Hollywood'ssuggesting, but quite literally
the doll comes back Annabelle.
They keep throwing her out.
She keeps coming back Rightright, right, a little scary In
one of the books that I'veworked on as an editor, called
Unquiet Voices by Rob and NoniDouglas, and I highly recommend
this to anyone who really wantsto dive into paranormal
investigation from an occultperspective not witchcraft, but
(34:11):
an occult perspective.
It's really in depth, great forthe beginner as well as people
who are changing the way theywork with it similar to the way
what I'm doing, but they stressthis as well is that do not do
anything If it's something'sdangerous do not do anything
that you're uncomfortable withor not experienced with.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Get somebody to help.
Well, that goes for anything,not just in the occult.
Don't run a chemistryexperiment unless you know what
you're doing Plumbing electricwork.
Yeah, so I had a situationwhere I had acquired some dolls
because people just send them tous, and Diana was Diana and I
are in different states Diana'sin Tulsa, I'm here in Atlanta,
so Diana was visiting and shewas staying in my basement and I
had the dolls in the room thatI'm in now, before it was
(34:56):
refinished, before it wasrefinished, and both her and my
husband, at various pointsthroughout this period, saw like
the light was in this room andthey saw what looked like a
shadow of little feet walking byunder the door.
So are you saying that thatwasn't physically the doll
getting up and moving?
(35:16):
That was the spirit somehow.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
I guessing, I'm, I'm guessing it was the spirit that
was causing that, not the doll'sfeet.
I mean it's using, it's usingthe reflection of the doll, it's
using the energy of the doll tocreate that, but it's not the
actual doll.
I'm sure if you went in therethe doll was probably still
sitting exactly where you put it.
Yeah, and that's when peoplesay well, it's not haunted,
you're making this up becausethe doll actually hasn't moved.
(35:40):
I've never had a doll come andhop up on the couch next to me.
Mary doesn't move, mary's rightthere.
If people say they and theyhave said I sense Mary moving,
it's the energy, it's a spiritthat's circling or coming in and
out of her.
You know, I'm saying that now,watch.
Tomorrow I'll be like callingyou guys back.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Mary just drove my car off right, Keeping a really
close eye on her right now, justin case she waves.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
She realized she could turn the Xbox on herself.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
But yeah, it's usually just the spirit.
Now again, I am not aparanormal investigator, so
that's a really good question toask for people who have gone
and seen lots and lots of dollsand other types of things to see
.
This is from my perspective andmy experience with dolls.
I have over 1500 dolls in myhouse right now in various
states of restoration, and Ialso resell them.
(36:30):
So I have from new to modernand all of them are filled with
energy, because they're all olddolls that I take in.
None of them have moved bythemselves, but they all have
energy floating around them.
So things do shift and changewith them, especially as they
interact with each other andthey speak to me as spirit and
energy speaks to you.
(36:51):
And of course, then there'sMary and Peekaboo and another.
So that's my experience withdolls.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Another thing that I learned from listening to you is
that there's certain plasticdolls that will develop a toxic
mold over time.
Oh yes, and you have to be very, very careful when you restore
them.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
That's a bad kind of haunting.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Tell us about that so people can avoid that If
anybody out there decides theywant to be an amateur doll
restorer.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, if you're restoring dolls, even if you're
not restoring dolls, if you wantto buy an old doll, because you
either are hoping for a haunteddoll or you just want to
collect an old doll, or forwhatever purposes, use it for
magic.
Old dolls are wonderful forthat.
If you pick one of them up andit smells like what I call
cheese vomit, you've got yeah,that's a demon of a different
sort.
You have a doll that's filledwith mold and what that is is
(37:41):
plastics don't last forever andeventually the plastics start to
emit chemicals, they start tobreak down and, for other
reasons, the metals that areresting inside these dolls
interact with those plasticsthat they break down and so, as
that happens, certain types ofmold can form and there's
different types of mold and fordifferent reasons, whether it's
(38:01):
the interaction with the metal,whether it's the breaking down
the molds feeding off thebreaking down the plastic.
Sometimes they look like theyhave a white coating over them
in patches, sometimes it's darkgray, greenish, dark gray.
It's very toxic.
When I get one of these dolls,I have to treat it very
carefully, I have to demold itand I have to treat it very
carefully.
I have to demold it and I haveways of doing it, but there are
dolls that there are dolls thatjust are too far gone and it's
(38:24):
just, it's not worth it and I'vehad to, unfortunately, throw
those out.
But I have saved a few dolls,but again, they don't last
forever.
If you have a, an American Girldoll, for example, some of the
90s ones are already breakingdown.
I haven't seen a moldy one,plastic mold anyway but they
start to like, look yellow, ortheir vinyl starts to change
(38:46):
color.
A lot of dolls from the 70salso.
You might notice your old dolls.
You pull them out and they have, like their skin, stoning
places is yellow.
That's the plastic breakingdown and distorting.
Whoa, they're not meant to lastforever.
This girl right here I'm goingto show you this is gladys.
She was born in 1906 and she'smade a bisque and they stopped
(39:09):
using bisque because it was sobreakable.
The girls would throw it andit'd crack and break.
But it turns out she's 100 andsomething years old and looks
perfect still, yeah, whereasnewer dolls that are of these
plastics not so much, notlasting as long.
Composition is.
I have a composition doll I'llshow you those are the ones that
look cracked right Over time.
(39:29):
Yes, I have one I haven'trestored yet.
I just got her she'scomposition.
This is not a very good exampleof crazing which is the
cracking.
This is not a very good exampleof crazing which is the
cracking.
But what happens with them isthat the material is made out of
a pulped wood and glue that'smashed together and formed into
the doll shape and then coatedand painted.
(39:49):
So if moisture gets inside,they start to expand, causing
all those the cracks, the famouscracks that make it look like a
haunted doll.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Ah, okay Gotcha.
The crazing is just from thewood pulp expanding with wetness
.
That's all it is.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
It's not because it's haunted, you know I always say
just because a doll looks likeit's haunted doesn't mean it is
haunted.
In fact there's so manyfabulous haunted looking dolls
that are probably not haunted.
There was just some artisthaving fun trying to make a
Halloween doll.
But yeah, so it turns out,these older dolls out of this
bisque material, if they haven'tbeen broken they're actually
(40:23):
the longest lasting, becauseeventually plastic breaks down.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
This has been a very enlightening and entertaining,
fun conversation.
Thank you so much, Heather, forcoming on the show and talking
about all of these not quitehaunted and yet not quite not
haunted situations.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
I have loved this conversation.
I loved your workshop that youdid, Heather.
This has been so much fun.
I'm so glad that we got to dothis.
I just want to make sureeverybody knows where they can
find you.
Your website is heathergreennet.
You have your articles on there.
You have links to where peoplecan purchase your book.
(41:02):
Are there any other places thatyou would like people to go?
Look you up?
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Sure, my website is a good starting point.
I also a lot of my articles arefound on Religion News Service
and Religion Unplugged.
I am a journalist as well inthis area and I am on the board
of Mystic South, so I'm alwaysat Mystic South doing one thing
or the other.
So please come and visit us inAtlanta in July that would be
super fun.
And and every Wednesday at theWitches Movie, coven at 9pm
(41:30):
Eastern.
We're on YouTube and Facebook.
We're live and talking aboutmovies.
We do every every type of moviehorror and fantasy and
everything that has magic in it.
So that's another place you canfind me and I'm on the socials,
and those socials you can findon your website too.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Absolutely Heather again, thanks so much.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Thank you and Hainted Loves.
What do you think If you had adoll in your house that you knew
something was coming through?
What would you do with it?
Speaker 1 (42:02):
other than have a spooky day.
Homespun haints is hosted bybecky kalimnick and diana dodie
and produced by homespun haintsmedia llc.
Editing and music by beckykalimnick.
Show notes by diana dodie.
If you have a ghost story andyou'd like to be considered as a
guest for this podcast, pleasevisit our website at
homespunhaintscom.
(42:24):
Slash submit.
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