May 28, 2025 • 49 mins
Three knocks in the night. A wailing cry. A figure in white seen from the corner of your eye. Across cultures, these omens carry the same chilling message—someone will soon die.
In this captivating exploration of supernatural death harbingers, folklorist and author Steven J. Rolfes takes us deep into the mysterious world of banshees and their counterparts across different cultures. With his book Beware the Banshee's Cry as our guide, Steven reveals the fascinating complexities behind these ethereal messengers.
What exactly is a banshee? Steven presents three possibilities: the ghost of an ancestor with either loving or vindictive intentions, a fairy from the ancient Tuatha de Danann, or perhaps most intriguingly, a transformed Celtic goddess. The name itself—"bean sí" or "woman from the fairy mound"—connects these entities to pre-Christian Celtic traditions that have survived centuries of cultural evolution.
From Lady Fanshawe's encounter with a floating red-haired apparition at an O'Brien castle in 1649 to a mysterious black cat haunting a Cincinnati hospital in 1879, these stories span continents and centuries, demonstrating how banshees follow Irish families wherever they travel. We also discover similar traditions worldwide, including Germany's White Lady (Weissefrau) and Mexico's weeping woman (La Llorona), showing how humans across cultures have personified death's approach.
The folklore contains surprising elements—banshees' treasured combs that shouldn't be stolen, the protective power of iron against supernatural entities, and the specific families traditionally haunted by these harbingers. Stephen's storytelling brings these traditions to life with both scholarly insight and captivating narrative.
Listen now to discover whether your heritage comes with its own supernatural warning system, and consider: if you heard three knocks at your door tonight, would you answer?
Tired of websites that have been Frankensteined together using subpar body parts? Check out Becky and Diana's digital media and web design company, The Concept Spot, and let's make some digital spookiness together! theconceptspot.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
The Wind Howls Outside your Door.
The wind howls outside yourdoor as the moon disappears
behind a cloud.
You nod off in front of thedying fire, the book in your lap
going limp against your knee.
Suddenly you hear a knock onthe door, three, even raps.
You jerk awake.
Was that your imagination?
(00:26):
No, there it is again.
Knock, knock, knock.
And then you know the hardtruth Someone, perhaps you, will
soon die.
Banshee lore is peculiar andfascinating, and folklorist
Stephen Rolfes is an expert init.
He'll share some deep knowledgeabout who banshees are and
(00:49):
where they come from today.
On Homespun Haints.
Hello, hainted Loves.
Welcome to Homespun Haints.
I'm Becky.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Hey, I'm Diana.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Today we have a real treat for you guys.
We are going to be talking toStephen J Rolfes, who wrote a
very intriguing book on folklorecalled Beware the Banshees Cry.
Oh, I think I peaked there.
He's a folklorist and he hasall these really cool stories
about banshees and he opens upby telling us how I recently
(01:21):
encountered one.
I didn't even know it, but hehad listened to some of our
episodes and was like oh yes,becky, that was a banshee, and
I'm like oh my gosh, we're goingto be talking to Stephen.
He is so knowledgeable aboutthis stuff.
I think you guys are reallygoing to enjoy it.
If you, especially if you likeIrish folklore, if you like
spooky things or if you justlike storytelling, and if you
(01:45):
don't, why the hell are youlistening to us?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
No, longer welcome on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So, diana, I'm also excited because, as you know,
I'm getting ready to go to Italy.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Oh, yes, that's right , I can't wait.
You said you're going toFaceTime me from the Vatican.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I will, and everybody who's on our Patreon can live
vicariously because I will besharing stories and everywhere
they'll let me film, especiallyif there's skeletons, I will be
filming.
So if you've been living undera rock for the last 2000 years
and you don't know what Pompeiiis, which you have been- if you
(02:23):
lived there.
Yeah, that's right, pompeii isa city.
In ancient Rome it was a beachside city, it was a resort town.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
That's always the excuse for building your city
right under a volcano, Like oh,there's a beach right there.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
It was like our Myrtle Beach.
It was like Myrtle Beach.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
You mean Georgia's, specifically Atlanta's, or like
the United States's?
Okay, what's a directcomparison with Myrtle Beach?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay, give me a nice beach in the US, try.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Key.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
West.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Okay, all right, yeah , but it's hard to get to.
Pompeii was like easy to get to.
What can you drive to?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Because, like the Romans, would have driven to
this city In their Flintstonescars powered by feet.
I've never heard of driving ahorse, but I really like that.
I thought that was likesomething you do with cattle.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I wouldn't drive cattle to Pompeii, especially if
you need to get out because thevolcanoes erupting.
I mean they don't go very fast,it's really hard to be stuck
between a volcano and cattle.
That's really not a goodsituation for being in a vehicle
.
Okay, we are going nowhere withthis.
Okay, it was a beach resort andpeople did live there, just
like people do live in MyrtleBeach or Miami Beach or Daytona
(03:40):
Beach Should have said DaytonaBeach.
I had no idea what I used tolive there.
It's like Daytona Beach.
I should have said DaytonaBeach.
I had no idea what I used tolive there.
It's like Daytona Beach.
It's just like Daytona Beach,but without gasoline smears on
the sand.
And we can say that we used tolive there.
God, that beach was gross Backto Pompeii, all right.
So 79 CE, this volcano erupted.
People were like at the games.
(04:01):
They were out doing their thing.
They're like, oh look, it'ssmoking.
But nobody took it seriously.
Everyone thought, meh, he doesthat sometimes.
And it exploded and it encasedpeople in ash and, incredibly,
(04:22):
preserved the city.
You may have been able to seesome of the plaster bodies that
were uncovered, where they wouldpour plaster into the cavities
left by the ash and then, whenthey would pull away the ash,
they would have the perfect castof a screaming Roman caught in
(04:45):
his last moments of life.
But what we didn't know upuntil this recent article was
published in Nature magazine wasthat at least one of these
unfortunate Romans.
When he was covered in ash, hisbrain transformed into
(05:09):
something that you could ideallymake a vase or a window out of,
should you plan to.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
His brain, not his cranium, his brain.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
His tissue in his brain transformed into glass.
What, yeah, not as cranial.
What, what part?
Which tissue?
The brain tissue?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I don't know, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
mostly fat.
I thought it was mostly water.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Water and fat.
Yeah Well, I assume the waterdidn't turn into glass.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
That'd be weird, this report came out on February
27th, so I guess it's a littlebit of old news, but it's not as
old as Okay don't worry aboutspoilers.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I'm not going to read that.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, it's a very, very dense sciencey article in
Nature.
It's called unique formation oforganic glass from a human
brain in the Vesuvius eruptionof 79 CE.
So that tells you right therewhat it was.
So it really is glass.
Glass, yeah.
So they found a skull, right,okay, oh, wait, wait, wait, they
got a photo.
They got a photo of this guy.
(06:10):
So they actually found a skull,which is kind of rare,
considering, like, how hot thislava was.
Maybe he was like on theoutskirts, maybe he was trying
to get out and he got caught bythose cattle.
So, regardless, he did not burnup as fast.
So there's a little bit of askull left in his brain turned
(06:31):
to glass.
But how you can read the articleAll right, well, thank you for
that.
They have tested it and thismaterial and they have found
that it is.
It does have brain makeup.
(06:51):
It's got human hair fat.
Whatever that is, I'll quotehere.
The remnants on the skull areproven to be organic and human
brain, owing to the preservationof proteins common in human
brain tissue that would be aclue and fatty acids typical of
both human brain triglyceridesand human hair fat.
That is something I neverthought I would say.
(07:11):
Human hair fat, wow.
Moreover, exceptionallywell-preserved complex networks
of neurons, axons and otherneural structures have been
revealed by a scanning electronmicroscope.
Investigation of the remains.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
So it contains neurons insideglass.
The guy's neurons, or it's justthe neuron left a pattern in
the glass, so it looks like adecorative paperweight with
little neurons running throughit.
Well, they don't go into thatdetail.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
They're looking at a high-powered microscope.
They're looking at a highpowered microscope.
They're looking at what lookslike a chunk of obsidian.
It looks like black glass,basically, and they can see the
neural network.
So I don't know if they cantell, like, if it's actually the
neurons.
It's probably the impression ofthe neurons, Kind of like you
know how a fossil isn't actuallybone, it's just what happens to
(08:03):
the bone I'm a person of bone.
So basically they're.
The whole article is about themtrying to like prove that it's
glass and then figure out howthe hell that happened, because
apparently this is this is kindof a new thing.
You know, I don't know if I'veever heard of the brain turning
to glass before.
Glass brain no, no, no.
But hey, for those of you thatare like science fiction writers
(08:25):
, you should read this articlebecause it's a great fodder for
some great ideas that soundslike Agatha Christie, the glass
brain of.
Pompeii, great historicalfiction piece right about this
guy's life.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
And why he's the only one who had his brain turned to
glass.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Well, you know, investigations are ongoing.
They've only been digging atthis site for about 300 years.
They may find moreglass-brained people.
Okay, so this is a tip,archaeologist here, former
archaeologist, just a tip forthose of you looking for glass
brain people, look for cattletracks, trust me why?
(09:10):
Because the people trying toget out and the cattle that were
in the way they.
They did the slow burn, okay,which is the only good David
Bowie song on the album Heathen,by the way.
Prove me wrong.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
No, you're right.
Well, that's an ideal situationBrain turning to glass.
I would love it if my brainturned to glass when I died.
Wouldn't that be awesome?
Your loved one could have a bigbrain paperweight instead of a
stupid jar full of burned uppieces.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, but that would assume that you would be on
vacation under a volcano withoutyour loved one when you met
your untimely demise and 2000years had gone by before
archaeologists discovered yourbrain and dug it up.
So I think the chances of youhaving a glass brain and it
actually ending up on yourpartner's mantelpiece it's kind
(10:02):
of slim.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
I kind of wonder if the guy was like struck by
lightning or something I knowright, and it's just like it
created plasma Like inside hisskull and ricocheted around.
I just imagine You've never hadplasma in your skull, you don't
know what it feels like, so itcould feel like your brain is
(10:26):
turning to glass.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Maybe it was lava lightning.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Lava lightning Prove us wrong.
Even though that's twodifferent types of damage, we
think the same thing can produceboth lightning and lava and its
volcanoes.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Absolutely.
We are excited to talk toStephen here in a few minutes,
but for those of you that aren'ta member of our Patreon, look a
commercial.
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(11:55):
Hello, hainted Loves, welcometo Homespun Haints.
I'm Becky and I'm Diana.
Today on the show, we arethrilled to bring on author
(12:15):
Stephen J Rolfes, and he isauthor of Beware the Banshee's
Cry, as well as nine other soonto be 10 other books.
I'm really excited to talk toStephen today and learn about
Banshees and so many otherspooky things.
So, stephen, thank you so muchfor being here today with us.
(12:35):
Well, thank you so much forhaving me.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Greetings and salutations.
Salutations.
Now, before we go any further,I do want to put in one quick
point.
Okay, a few weeks back you hada show with a very nice lady
from Mississippi and at thebeginning I forget who said it
one of the two of you talkedabout hearing three booms that
(13:04):
was me, that was you.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, yeah, that happened in my backyard.
Back three booms that was me,that was you.
Okay, yeah, that happened in mybackyard.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Backyard booms that sounds like the Irish death
knock.
Oh no, oh no.
The banshees cry, and thesestrange knocks will always come
in groups of three, and afterthey come, within a day or two,
(13:30):
or maybe right then, someone inthe family is going to die.
Of course, becky, you don'thave to worry because you're of
German descent, as I am.
Now, diana might have a littleproblem there, because you have
to be Irish to get a bansheeDang it.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So my Scottish ancestry isn't close enough, I'm
safe.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Swing and a miss.
Nope, it's got to be an O or aMac or no.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Irishman you be.
That banshee was obviouslybarking up the wrong house.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Talking of the three knocks, I do have one case from
the 1940s in the city of Derry,and this is on the street Now
you probably have people inIreland listening to this.
The name of the street wasFulton's Place and it's very
(14:32):
near the St Columbus Church,which they called the Long Tower
.
Well, this was, I believe,right after World War II, was, I
believe, right after World WarII, and there was an elderly man
who was pretty much dying thatnight and the friends and the
family came around and one ofthe people who was there that
(14:57):
night was a teenage girl.
You know, she's maybe about 13or 14.
And you too, having once beenteenage girls yourselves, you
would know that of all theplaces in the world you would
want to be, that's probably downat the bottom of the list.
(15:18):
She made her greetings andgoodbyes to the man and she's
just sitting there and suddenlyshe hears knocking at the door
and no one else is payingattention and she's wondering
why the heck isn't anybodygetting up and answering the
(15:40):
door.
It's probably someone with somefood and they're just kind of
knocking let me in but no onenotices.
And this happened a second timenot too much longer away.
And finally it happened a thirdtime and she said well, even
though this isn't my house,someone needs to get in.
(16:04):
So she gets up, she walks tothe door and she opens it and
she sees an old small womanwearing a cloak and walking away
from the house.
But all of a sudden that ladystops and she sensed that the
(16:26):
door was open.
She turned around and startedto walk back towards the house
now that the door was open, andof course the girl screamed and
slammed the door and pretty muchfainted away.
Well, wouldn't you know thatthe man they had come to visit,
well, he died later that eveningand apparently that was the
(16:52):
death knock coming for him.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Whoa.
If she hadn't opened the door,would you speculate, the man
wouldn't have died.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Oh, no, no, when the banshee comes.
It's done, they're justannouncing it.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Ah, got it.
I grew up in Appalachia andthere we have a tradition the
same thing if you hear the threeknocks, don't open the door
because you'll invite notbanshee, but whatever the
derivative is in, and then adeath could occur.
So you can avoid the death bynot opening the door in
Appalachia.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
In French Brittany there is a very dark spirit
known as Anku, and he is prettymuch what our modern grim reaper
is based on, but instead of ahood he has a wide brim cap and
he goes about at night on theseold country roads in a creaky
(17:51):
cart filled with souls, and hewill come up to the house of the
person that is destined to dieand he'll knock on the door
three times, and you definitelydon't want to invite him in.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Okay, so that's the one that comes knocking that you
don't want to let in, Becky.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I think we might have heard of Anku at one point
before.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It's part of the Unseelie Court and the Wild Hunt
right Well it's funny that youmention the Wild Hunt, because
in Ireland there is somethingknown as the Coach of Bower.
Now, the Coach of Bower is saidto be an elegant, wonderful
(18:40):
coach.
Is said to be an elegant,wonderful coach If you remember
those fantastic movies fromMario Bava at the beginning of
the 60s with the elegant coachesbeing driven by phantoms.
Well, this would be like it,and quite often it is a banshee
(19:13):
who is riding in it.
It is a banshee who is ridingin it.
The person driving the coachlooks perfectly normal.
You must definitely throwyourself to the ground and put
your hands up and don't look.
Don't look at what it is,otherwise it'll stop and it'll
(19:34):
take you along, unless you wantto go riding with Odin or going
with the night marchers or thecoach of Bauer.
Yeah, just hide on the ground.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Where does it take you?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
To hell.
Wherever they go, no one has itto come back to tell us.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
No, we're not supposed to know.
Stephen, how did you getinterested in Banshees, since
you're obviously a scholar onBanshees and other folklore?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I love folklore, I love Ireland.
I'm going back next year.
I can't wait to get there.
But yes, banshees are somethingthat people have heard about.
They say the old expression toscream like a banshee, but very
few people know much about them.
(20:25):
So I spent a lot of time and Icame up with hundreds of cases
of meeting the banshee.
But I'll tell you one thing now,something that I have never
figured out is what is a banshee?
Now, it can be one of threethings.
(20:48):
One, it could be the ghost ofan ancestor, maybe a few hundred
years ago, who either loved thefamily so much they want to
help their passing from thisworld to the next, or it could
be someone who hated the familyand takes utter delight in
(21:12):
announcing their deaths, and Ihave a lot of cases of that in
the book.
Or number.
Two, it could be one of thefairies, the Tuatha de Danann,
what they call the she, thedwellers in the mound.
(21:32):
In fact, the name Banshee istwo words Bans, she, which means
the woman from the mound, andthat's not a pile of dirt.
That is the fairy mound, andthis is the most interesting and
the one I think your watchersand listeners will love.
(21:55):
It might be a Celtic goddess,because there are a number of
Celtic goddesses who have,apparently, with the coming of
(22:22):
Christianity which, I apologizeto the Irish, I'm no doubt
mispronouncing it, forgive me,I'm German, but Aene was the
goddess well about right now ofspring, of summer, of fertility,
of the animals, of the crops,of the people, in other words,
(22:46):
all of the good stuff.
And she was connected to theFitz no one saw that Fitzgerald
and the Okara families, okarafamilies and she had a fairy
(23:09):
mound near Nakene, which is inCounty Limerick.
And, if you like folklore andancient rituals, there was a
ritual that survived way in thehistoric times through the 1800s
, probably well into the 1900s.
On Midsummer this might beMidsummer or it might be right
(23:46):
around Beltane People of thearea would gather at this mound
and they would perform like adance, a ritual, and then they
would have torches and theywould take these torches and
they would go scattering off indifferent directions and going
into the different fields.
That way you're bringing thefertilizing power of Aene to the
different farms and the fields.
(24:07):
And now she is a banshee.
And also, I won't give thestory now, but I'll just say in
the book I have another goddessnamed Cleona, and I have an
incredible story, a hilariousstory actually about her, and
(24:30):
she's now a banshee too.
So it's one of three things aghost, a fairy or an ancient
goddess, a fairy or an ancientgoddess?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Why do you think a goddess would, especially one
who's to?
Life and fertility are alsodeath goddesses.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
I'll give you one very familiar example of that.
It's Aphrodite.
She was also a death goddess,and keep in mind the Khorne
goddess, demeter, who was herdaughter, kor, or, as we know,
her Persephone, who became thequeen of the dead.
(25:33):
So, yes, you have life anddeath together in the same
symbolic person.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Interesting.
That does make sense.
So how far back do stories ofBanshees go?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
The oldest one that I could find.
I'm sure it goes much furtherthan that was from the ancient
Ireland and the story of thegreat Irish hero, cuchulainn.
Now, you probably heard hisname.
They say that Cuchulainn is theIrish Heracles, but personally
(26:14):
I think that Heracles is theGreek Cuchulainn.
Now he saw the goddess.
Now this is one that stop me,if you've heard her name before
Morrigan.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Oh yeah, who created panic among soldiers?
Maka, who spent her timeusually as a crow, flying in
circles above a battlefieldwaiting for dinner to be served,
and Baal, who was the greatwasherwoman.
(26:58):
And Morrigan fell in love withCuchulain, the big, strong
He-Man hero, but he didn't wantanything to do with her because
he was in the middle of war.
He spent a lot of time in warand on his last battle,
(27:20):
cuchulain was walking with thedruid Cathbad and they saw out
in the stream a woman who waswashing the clothes and the
armor of a warrior.
Well, this armor and clothingwas just covered in blood and
(27:41):
the water was turning scarletaround her.
And Cathbad said look,cuchulain, you know whose
clothes he's washing.
Why, that's yours.
That means that if you go aheadand you fight in this battle,
(28:02):
you will die for certain.
Come, let's turn around andlet's go back, because you're
not going to live well,coochalane, turn around, run
away from a battle that beagleis not hunting.
He said you want to go?
Fine, safety is that way, thebattle is this way, that's where
I'm headed.
So he goes and you're going tolove this.
(28:25):
There is a standing stone on topof a mound.
Now, if you're into the laytheory.
You know, this is where the laylines go.
This is the spiritual power.
Well, he walked up to it, tookoff his belt, put it around the
stone and he fastened himself tothat stone.
(28:48):
That way, when he fell, hewould not touch the earth.
Not to touch the earth and notto see the sun from Sir James
Fraser.
Well, he started the fight andthe enemy was rushing up on him.
Spears were piercing him,arrows were piercing him, but he
(29:11):
just kept fighting.
But he was slowing down bit bybit, and then he wasn't moving
and there was a whole pile ofdead bodies in front of him and
the enemy soldiers were sayingis he resting, can we attack, or
is he suddenly going to comeout and start slicing again?
(29:34):
Well, flying overhead, whoshould be there?
But the banshee goddessMorrigan.
And she's in the form of a crow, and she says, as every woman
has said in their lives at leastonce if you want something done
right, you got to do ityourself.
(29:56):
So she flew down, landed righton his head, and they knew that.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
The great Kutulain was dead, but his body did not
touch the earth.
Did that prevent them frombeing able to conquer him
somehow?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
It had a spiritual significance.
Okay that he was still upright.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
You mentioned you had a whole stack of banshee
stories that you would like toshare with us.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Remember I told you about the ghosts who hate their
families, right?
Well, the Lady Fanshawe.
Back in the year 1649, she sawjust such a banshee.
Now you may not have heard thename, lady Fanshawe, but you
(30:52):
certainly enjoy her product,because she was the first person
in the English language to comeup with the recipe for ice
cream.
And this was in where are we?
At County Cork.
(31:12):
She was visiting a castle ownedby the O'Brien family, and this
was a very old, ancient castle.
It even had this big moat infront of it.
Well, she was there visitingwith the O'Briens and at
nighttime they became tired.
(31:34):
She went up to bed.
She got into bed, no doubtdreaming of sugary treats, and
suddenly she hears this wailingand crying outside of her window
.
Problem is, she's on the secondfloor and there's a moat.
(31:55):
So, okay, she gets up, shewalks, opens up the curtains and
she sees this beautiful Irishgirl with red hair that's
floating around like she'sunderwater.
And this lady is floating inair and she's looking in.
(32:18):
She's looking in at LadyFanshawe's clothes.
Well, the fact that you've beendead for a few centuries
doesn't mean you can't keep upwith the latest fashion.
And then, all of a sudden, thelady lets out another scream and
Lady Fanshawe is like shakingat this point and then the Irish
(32:39):
girl floats backwards into theair and then a third time she
lets out a scream and then shevanishes and Lady Fanshawe
closes the curtains and says,okay, I'm going to get a good
night's sleep now.
Well, in the morning she goesdown and she breakfast and
(33:03):
here's her host that comes inand they're talking and she said
now I had the strangest thinghappen to me last night.
Oh, he said yes, and sheexplained what happened and he
had a very guilty look on hisface and he said yes, you saw
(33:24):
the O'Brien family banshee.
Oh, we had someone in thecastle.
One of our family was dyinglast night, but we didn't want
to bother you because we knewyou wouldn't stay, so we put him
in another part of the castleand well, he passed away last
(33:44):
night.
The banshee that you saw wasfrom a few hundred years earlier
.
There was a prince or you know,the young heir, baron or
whatever, of the O'Brien family.
He fell in love and he marriedthe local girl, a peasant.
(34:07):
Now, back then it was not likea Hallmark Christmas movie.
If you were a nobility, you didnot marry the common people and
he brought her in and they werelegally married.
No one could kick her out, butthe family just gave him pure
(34:28):
hell.
How could you disgrace thefamily by doing this?
You're supposed to marry thedaughter of this baron over
there so we can get an alliance.
No, you had to fall in love.
Well, finally he got tired ofall of the nagging and he had
(34:48):
his young wife drowned in themoat.
Now, personally, I thinkmarrying beneath your station
that's not as bad as murderingyour wife.
But maybe it was a littledifferent back then.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
What a solution a little different back then.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
What a solution.
How about from 1879, right herein Cincinnati?
Wait what, yep?
Oh, you don't have to be inIreland.
So long as you are of thefamily an Irish family, pure
(35:31):
through and through and yourfamily has a banshee, it doesn't
matter where you go, thebanshee will come and see you.
Well, they had a guy named MrGaylor and he went into the city
hospital and he said can yougive me a tour?
I said, oh, okay, Well, usuallywe don't do this, but they took
(35:52):
him around and he was impressed.
They said why exactly did youwant a tour?
He said well, I heard thefamily banshee the other night
and I know I'm probably going towind up here, but your
facilities look great, I'll beseeing you soon.
He walked out.
(36:14):
They never saw him, but they didsee a banshee in animal form.
Okay, a black cat suddenlyappeared in the hospital and
everyone loved him.
You know the janitors, thedoctors, the nurses, attendants,
everyone had their little blackcat pet.
(36:37):
But then they noticed somethingvery weird All of a sudden at
night the cat would just gocrazy, run around in circles,
screeching and such, and as soonas it did that someone in the
hospital would die and they hadto remove the body, and this
(37:00):
happened like a dozen times andall of a sudden that cat was not
quite as popular as it had beenbefore.
Finally, the cat just left ofits own and nobody was in the
least bit sorry.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
That's amazing, Because you hear about cats who
will detect people who are aboutto die because of some
metabolic shift or somethinglike that and go cuddle up with
them.
But the idea that it wasscreaming specifically the cat
was screaming like a banshee.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I heard another animal type story of this and I
could not put it in the bookbecause I've read it years ago.
I mean, over my lifetime I'veread so many books.
I think the name of the bookwas called Passing Strange but I
haven't had time to dig it up.
(37:55):
But there was a family in NewEngland Irish family, maybe they
were in Boston and it was justa regular suburban family and
one day a German shepherd dogappeared and everyone in the
family is playing with the dogand having a wonderful time,
(38:18):
except the grandmother.
She was from the old countryand she saw that dog and she
wanted nothing to do with it andfinally the dog just left of
its own accord.
And as soon as it did they gotword that a close relative in
(38:39):
Ireland had passed away and thegrandmother said you idiots.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
That was a banshee, so it visited the family
completely on the other side ofthe world.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Oh yes, yes, when you hear the banshee or see it, you
don't know if it's coming foryou, someone in your immediate
family or someone in the moreextended family extended family
(39:20):
Okay, I do have a ratherhumorous Banshee motif.
Now.
You too may have been told thiswhen you were little, that if
you see a belief, the mosttreasured possession of a
banshee is her comb.
And sometimes she's a littlecareless and she'll drop it.
(39:43):
And if you grew up in Irelandand you see a comb on the ground
and you happen to be with yourgrandmother or something it'll
be, don't you dare pick that up.
That could be from a banshee.
And there is a folk motif whichtalks about a drunken Irishman I
(40:04):
know that's an impossibility,yeah, never heard of that.
Coming home from the pub onenight and he sees a banshee
combing her long hair, which iswhat they are often seen doing.
That's why they scream so muchand he says well, now that comb,
that'll be something to showthe boys back at the pub.
(40:27):
So he sneaks up behind, grabsthe comb, goes running off to
his house Look what I got.
And of course the banshee isnot happy with this and she
starts to chase after him.
And he gets home just in timeand slams the door and locks it,
(40:51):
and then she takes what'scalled a beetle, which is what
you use to pound clothing, theold-fashioned way to wash before
uh, you know, west point andsuch, and she throws that beetle
at the house and it crashes andeverything shakes, Dishes are
(41:13):
falling and breaking, and herecomes the family, down the step,
saying okay, what mischief areyou up to today, and why is
somebody shooting off artilleryin the front yard?
Well, he said, look what I got.
And the wife looks at him andsays, oh, my mother told me to
(41:36):
marry, well, but no, I was inlove, I had to pick the village
idiot.
So now, what are they going todo?
They have a very angry bansheewho wants her comb back.
So, naturally, being goodCatholics, you go to the priest
and the priest said first thing,you've got to give that comb
(41:59):
back, but don't under anycircumstances touch her, or let
her touch you Okay, alrightycircumstances.
Touch her, or let her touch you, okay, all righty.
So they figure it out whenshe's outside pounding on the
door, they take the iron tongsfrom the fireplace, they put the
comb in the tongs and theyslide it under the door and all
(42:23):
of a sudden it's like you have agreat white shark at the other
end and they pull back two ironrods.
She got her comb back and shetook half of the tong with her
and now he has something to showthe boys down at the pub.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
I didn't know there was a type of fairy that could
touch iron.
That's a surprising twist.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yes, yes.
Iron spirits, fairies, ghosts,demons cannot touch iron.
That is why, if you go to anold cemetery, it is surrounded
by an iron fence.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
It is surrounded by an iron fence, not necessarily
to keep the people out, which itwants to do, but to keep the
spirits in.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Maybe this was one of the goddess banshees that
doesn't have to follow thespirit rules.
Maybe it was Aene or Cleona.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Exactly so.
There's not just one banshee,then Every family has their own
banshee.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Oh, specific families , right, yes, it has to be a
certain specific family, andthere are actually lists of this
One of the books that Iresearched for this by modern
folklorist Patricia Lyslott.
She has the complete list inthe back and I give a lot of the
(43:56):
names in my book.
We see Devereaux.
Is there?
Flynn O'Brien, of course, thatwe spoke of.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
So this is a good reason to not be Irish.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Oh, you're not going to get away.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Yeah, you can't just not be Irish Now.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Becky and I, we would have to worry about an entity
known as the Weissefrau, theWhite Lady.
The White Lady and this is fromGermany, and there are plenty
of beautiful Gothic tales ofthis lady in white gliding down
(44:36):
the chambers in the evening.
You're sometimes holding acandle and when you see her you
know that someone in the familyis going to die.
Oh, that reminds me of a storyright there.
One of the most famous of Germanfamilies is the Hohenzollern,
(45:01):
where the Kaiser was from duringWorld War I.
This was his ruling family andhis family had a Weißfrau who
would announce their deaths.
And one day there was one ofthe princesses of the family in
(45:23):
I believe they were in theNeuschlaß that was in, might
have been in Austria and she wasfixing her hair in the mirror
and trying on a hat and she sawout of the corner of her eye
someone was walking.
She figured it was one of theservants and she just asked what
(45:44):
time is it?
And suddenly she heard thisghostly voice say it is 10
o'clock, my love, and she turnedaround and dressed all in white
.
There was the HohenzollernWeissefrau and within a few days
(46:05):
she was dead.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
So Weissefrau is equivalent, basically the German
banshee.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Oh you find death messengers all over the world,
and I'll give you one that youmight see in Oklahoma.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Okay, La Llorona Ah yes, you've heard of her.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
The weeping lady, the Mexican version of the Medea
myth.
Well, if you hear her, thatmeans that someone either you or
someone in your close family isgoing to be dying soon.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Oh wow.
Well, Stephen, thank you somuch for sharing all of this.
Stephen has written multiplebooks and, as you can tell, is
incredibly knowledgeable aboutfolklore from all over the world
, especially when it has to dowith Harbingers of Death.
Cry is recently released.
(47:05):
I believe we will have links toall of Stephen's books on our
website, in our show notes andin the description below.
So, stephen, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
This was lovely.
I'm so glad we got a chance totalk to you Well thank you for
having me.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
I hope I can come on after the next book.
We'll see you again shortly.
Yeah Well, thank you very muchfor the interview today.
And Hainted Loves, what do youthink?
Would you answer the door ifyou heard one, two, three knocks
?
Because I think you probablyhave a spooky day.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Homespun Haints is hosted by Becky Kielimnik and
Diana Doty and produced byHomespun Haints is hosted by
Becky Kilimnik and Diana Dotyand produced by Home Spun Haints
Media LLC.
Editing and music by BeckyKilimnik.
Show notes by Diana Doty.
If you have a ghost story andyou'd like to be considered as a
guest for this podcast, pleasevisit our website at
homespunhaintscom.
(48:04):
Slash submit.
The Wind Howls Outside your Door.
The wind howls outside yourdoor as the moon disappears
behind a cloud.
You nod off in front of thedying fire, the book in your lap
going limp against your knee.
Suddenly you hear a knock onthe door, three, even raps.
You jerk awake.
Was that your imagination?
(00:26):
No, there it is again.
Knock, knock, knock.
And then you know the hardtruth Someone, perhaps you, will
soon die.
Banshee lore is peculiar andfascinating, and folklorist
Stephen Rolfes is an expert init.
He'll share some deep knowledgeabout who banshees are and
(00:49):
where they come from today.
On Homespun Haints.
Hello, hainted Loves.
Welcome to Homespun Haints.
I'm Becky.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Hey, I'm Diana.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Today we have a real treat for you guys.
We are going to be talking toStephen J Rolfes, who wrote a
very intriguing book on folklorecalled Beware the Banshees Cry.
Oh, I think I peaked there.
He's a folklorist and he hasall these really cool stories
about banshees and he opens upby telling us how I recently
(01:21):
encountered one.
I didn't even know it, but hehad listened to some of our
episodes and was like oh yes,becky, that was a banshee, and
I'm like oh my gosh, we're goingto be talking to Stephen.
He is so knowledgeable aboutthis stuff.
I think you guys are reallygoing to enjoy it.
If you, especially if you likeIrish folklore, if you like
spooky things or if you justlike storytelling, and if you
(01:45):
don't, why the hell are youlistening to us?
Speaker 3 (01:48):
No, longer welcome on this podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So, diana, I'm also excited because, as you know,
I'm getting ready to go to Italy.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Oh, yes, that's right , I can't wait.
You said you're going toFaceTime me from the Vatican.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I will, and everybody who's on our Patreon can live
vicariously because I will besharing stories and everywhere
they'll let me film, especiallyif there's skeletons, I will be
filming.
So if you've been living undera rock for the last 2000 years
and you don't know what Pompeiiis, which you have been- if you
(02:23):
lived there.
Yeah, that's right, pompeii isa city.
In ancient Rome it was a beachside city, it was a resort town.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
That's always the excuse for building your city
right under a volcano, Like oh,there's a beach right there.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
It was like our Myrtle Beach.
It was like Myrtle Beach.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
You mean Georgia's, specifically Atlanta's, or like
the United States's?
Okay, what's a directcomparison with Myrtle Beach?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay, give me a nice beach in the US, try.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Key.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
West.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Okay, all right, yeah , but it's hard to get to.
Pompeii was like easy to get to.
What can you drive to?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Because, like the Romans, would have driven to
this city In their Flintstonescars powered by feet.
I've never heard of driving ahorse, but I really like that.
I thought that was likesomething you do with cattle.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I wouldn't drive cattle to Pompeii, especially if
you need to get out because thevolcanoes erupting.
I mean they don't go very fast,it's really hard to be stuck
between a volcano and cattle.
That's really not a goodsituation for being in a vehicle
.
Okay, we are going nowhere withthis.
Okay, it was a beach resort andpeople did live there, just
like people do live in MyrtleBeach or Miami Beach or Daytona
(03:40):
Beach Should have said DaytonaBeach.
I had no idea what I used tolive there.
It's like Daytona Beach.
I should have said DaytonaBeach.
I had no idea what I used tolive there.
It's like Daytona Beach.
It's just like Daytona Beach,but without gasoline smears on
the sand.
And we can say that we used tolive there.
God, that beach was gross Backto Pompeii, all right.
So 79 CE, this volcano erupted.
People were like at the games.
(04:01):
They were out doing their thing.
They're like, oh look, it'ssmoking.
But nobody took it seriously.
Everyone thought, meh, he doesthat sometimes.
And it exploded and it encasedpeople in ash and, incredibly,
(04:22):
preserved the city.
You may have been able to seesome of the plaster bodies that
were uncovered, where they wouldpour plaster into the cavities
left by the ash and then, whenthey would pull away the ash,
they would have the perfect castof a screaming Roman caught in
(04:45):
his last moments of life.
But what we didn't know upuntil this recent article was
published in Nature magazine wasthat at least one of these
unfortunate Romans.
When he was covered in ash, hisbrain transformed into
(05:09):
something that you could ideallymake a vase or a window out of,
should you plan to.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
His brain, not his cranium, his brain.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
His tissue in his brain transformed into glass.
What, yeah, not as cranial.
What, what part?
Which tissue?
The brain tissue?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
I don't know, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
mostly fat.
I thought it was mostly water.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Water and fat.
Yeah Well, I assume the waterdidn't turn into glass.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
That'd be weird, this report came out on February
27th, so I guess it's a littlebit of old news, but it's not as
old as Okay don't worry aboutspoilers.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I'm not going to read that.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, it's a very, very dense sciencey article in
Nature.
It's called unique formation oforganic glass from a human
brain in the Vesuvius eruptionof 79 CE.
So that tells you right therewhat it was.
So it really is glass.
Glass, yeah.
So they found a skull, right,okay, oh, wait, wait, wait, they
got a photo.
They got a photo of this guy.
(06:10):
So they actually found a skull,which is kind of rare,
considering, like, how hot thislava was.
Maybe he was like on theoutskirts, maybe he was trying
to get out and he got caught bythose cattle.
So, regardless, he did not burnup as fast.
So there's a little bit of askull left in his brain turned
(06:31):
to glass.
But how you can read the articleAll right, well, thank you for
that.
They have tested it and thismaterial and they have found
that it is.
It does have brain makeup.
(06:51):
It's got human hair fat.
Whatever that is, I'll quotehere.
The remnants on the skull areproven to be organic and human
brain, owing to the preservationof proteins common in human
brain tissue that would be aclue and fatty acids typical of
both human brain triglyceridesand human hair fat.
That is something I neverthought I would say.
(07:11):
Human hair fat, wow.
Moreover, exceptionallywell-preserved complex networks
of neurons, axons and otherneural structures have been
revealed by a scanning electronmicroscope.
Investigation of the remains.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
So it contains neurons insideglass.
The guy's neurons, or it's justthe neuron left a pattern in
the glass, so it looks like adecorative paperweight with
little neurons running throughit.
Well, they don't go into thatdetail.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
They're looking at a high-powered microscope.
They're looking at a highpowered microscope.
They're looking at what lookslike a chunk of obsidian.
It looks like black glass,basically, and they can see the
neural network.
So I don't know if they cantell, like, if it's actually the
neurons.
It's probably the impression ofthe neurons, Kind of like you
know how a fossil isn't actuallybone, it's just what happens to
(08:03):
the bone I'm a person of bone.
So basically they're.
The whole article is about themtrying to like prove that it's
glass and then figure out howthe hell that happened, because
apparently this is this is kindof a new thing.
You know, I don't know if I'veever heard of the brain turning
to glass before.
Glass brain no, no, no.
But hey, for those of you thatare like science fiction writers
(08:25):
, you should read this articlebecause it's a great fodder for
some great ideas that soundslike Agatha Christie, the glass
brain of.
Pompeii, great historicalfiction piece right about this
guy's life.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
And why he's the only one who had his brain turned to
glass.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Well, you know, investigations are ongoing.
They've only been digging atthis site for about 300 years.
They may find moreglass-brained people.
Okay, so this is a tip,archaeologist here, former
archaeologist, just a tip forthose of you looking for glass
brain people, look for cattletracks, trust me why?
(09:10):
Because the people trying toget out and the cattle that were
in the way they.
They did the slow burn, okay,which is the only good David
Bowie song on the album Heathen,by the way.
Prove me wrong.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
No, you're right.
Well, that's an ideal situationBrain turning to glass.
I would love it if my brainturned to glass when I died.
Wouldn't that be awesome?
Your loved one could have a bigbrain paperweight instead of a
stupid jar full of burned uppieces.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, but that would assume that you would be on
vacation under a volcano withoutyour loved one when you met
your untimely demise and 2000years had gone by before
archaeologists discovered yourbrain and dug it up.
So I think the chances of youhaving a glass brain and it
actually ending up on yourpartner's mantelpiece it's kind
(10:02):
of slim.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
I kind of wonder if the guy was like struck by
lightning or something I knowright, and it's just like it
created plasma Like inside hisskull and ricocheted around.
I just imagine You've never hadplasma in your skull, you don't
know what it feels like, so itcould feel like your brain is
(10:26):
turning to glass.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Maybe it was lava lightning.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Lava lightning Prove us wrong.
Even though that's twodifferent types of damage, we
think the same thing can produceboth lightning and lava and its
volcanoes.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Absolutely.
We are excited to talk toStephen here in a few minutes,
but for those of you that aren'ta member of our Patreon, look a
commercial.
Oh man, I had a rough day.
What happened, honey?
I was out with the guys andthey well, and, and they said I
wasn't spooky enough.
Oh honey, how could they saythat to you?
(10:59):
You're hella spooky.
You think so, of course.
After all, you came up with theectoplasm being ghost jizz
theory and you've been scratchedby more horny ghosts than
anyone else.
I know.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Well, I suppose you're right.
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(11:55):
Hello, hainted Loves, welcometo Homespun Haints.
I'm Becky and I'm Diana.
Today on the show, we arethrilled to bring on author
(12:15):
Stephen J Rolfes, and he isauthor of Beware the Banshee's
Cry, as well as nine other soonto be 10 other books.
I'm really excited to talk toStephen today and learn about
Banshees and so many otherspooky things.
So, stephen, thank you so muchfor being here today with us.
(12:35):
Well, thank you so much forhaving me.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Greetings and salutations.
Salutations.
Now, before we go any further,I do want to put in one quick
point.
Okay, a few weeks back you hada show with a very nice lady
from Mississippi and at thebeginning I forget who said it
one of the two of you talkedabout hearing three booms that
(13:04):
was me, that was you.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
Okay, yeah, that happened in my backyard.
Back three booms that was me,that was you.
Okay, yeah, that happened in mybackyard.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Backyard booms that sounds like the Irish death
knock.
Oh no, oh no.
The banshees cry, and thesestrange knocks will always come
in groups of three, and afterthey come, within a day or two,
(13:30):
or maybe right then, someone inthe family is going to die.
Of course, becky, you don'thave to worry because you're of
German descent, as I am.
Now, diana might have a littleproblem there, because you have
to be Irish to get a bansheeDang it.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So my Scottish ancestry isn't close enough, I'm
safe.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Swing and a miss.
Nope, it's got to be an O or aMac or no.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Irishman you be.
That banshee was obviouslybarking up the wrong house.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Talking of the three knocks, I do have one case from
the 1940s in the city of Derry,and this is on the street Now
you probably have people inIreland listening to this.
The name of the street wasFulton's Place and it's very
(14:32):
near the St Columbus Church,which they called the Long Tower
.
Well, this was, I believe,right after World War II, was, I
believe, right after World WarII, and there was an elderly man
who was pretty much dying thatnight and the friends and the
family came around and one ofthe people who was there that
(14:57):
night was a teenage girl.
You know, she's maybe about 13or 14.
And you too, having once beenteenage girls yourselves, you
would know that of all theplaces in the world you would
want to be, that's probably downat the bottom of the list.
(15:18):
She made her greetings andgoodbyes to the man and she's
just sitting there and suddenlyshe hears knocking at the door
and no one else is payingattention and she's wondering
why the heck isn't anybodygetting up and answering the
(15:40):
door.
It's probably someone with somefood and they're just kind of
knocking let me in but no onenotices.
And this happened a second timenot too much longer away.
And finally it happened a thirdtime and she said well, even
though this isn't my house,someone needs to get in.
(16:04):
So she gets up, she walks tothe door and she opens it and
she sees an old small womanwearing a cloak and walking away
from the house.
But all of a sudden that ladystops and she sensed that the
(16:26):
door was open.
She turned around and startedto walk back towards the house
now that the door was open, andof course the girl screamed and
slammed the door and pretty muchfainted away.
Well, wouldn't you know thatthe man they had come to visit,
well, he died later that eveningand apparently that was the
(16:52):
death knock coming for him.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Whoa.
If she hadn't opened the door,would you speculate, the man
wouldn't have died.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Oh, no, no, when the banshee comes.
It's done, they're justannouncing it.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Ah, got it.
I grew up in Appalachia andthere we have a tradition the
same thing if you hear the threeknocks, don't open the door
because you'll invite notbanshee, but whatever the
derivative is in, and then adeath could occur.
So you can avoid the death bynot opening the door in
Appalachia.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
In French Brittany there is a very dark spirit
known as Anku, and he is prettymuch what our modern grim reaper
is based on, but instead of ahood he has a wide brim cap and
he goes about at night on theseold country roads in a creaky
(17:51):
cart filled with souls, and hewill come up to the house of the
person that is destined to dieand he'll knock on the door
three times, and you definitelydon't want to invite him in.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Okay, so that's the one that comes knocking that you
don't want to let in, Becky.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I think we might have heard of Anku at one point
before.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
It's part of the Unseelie Court and the Wild Hunt
right Well it's funny that youmention the Wild Hunt, because
in Ireland there is somethingknown as the Coach of Bower.
Now, the Coach of Bower is saidto be an elegant, wonderful
(18:40):
coach.
Is said to be an elegant,wonderful coach If you remember
those fantastic movies fromMario Bava at the beginning of
the 60s with the elegant coachesbeing driven by phantoms.
Well, this would be like it,and quite often it is a banshee
(19:13):
who is riding in it.
It is a banshee who is ridingin it.
The person driving the coachlooks perfectly normal.
You must definitely throwyourself to the ground and put
your hands up and don't look.
Don't look at what it is,otherwise it'll stop and it'll
(19:34):
take you along, unless you wantto go riding with Odin or going
with the night marchers or thecoach of Bauer.
Yeah, just hide on the ground.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Where does it take you?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
To hell.
Wherever they go, no one has itto come back to tell us.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
No, we're not supposed to know.
Stephen, how did you getinterested in Banshees, since
you're obviously a scholar onBanshees and other folklore?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I love folklore, I love Ireland.
I'm going back next year.
I can't wait to get there.
But yes, banshees are somethingthat people have heard about.
They say the old expression toscream like a banshee, but very
few people know much about them.
(20:25):
So I spent a lot of time and Icame up with hundreds of cases
of meeting the banshee.
But I'll tell you one thing now,something that I have never
figured out is what is a banshee?
Now, it can be one of threethings.
(20:48):
One, it could be the ghost ofan ancestor, maybe a few hundred
years ago, who either loved thefamily so much they want to
help their passing from thisworld to the next, or it could
be someone who hated the familyand takes utter delight in
(21:12):
announcing their deaths, and Ihave a lot of cases of that in
the book.
Or number.
Two, it could be one of thefairies, the Tuatha de Danann,
what they call the she, thedwellers in the mound.
(21:32):
In fact, the name Banshee istwo words Bans, she, which means
the woman from the mound, andthat's not a pile of dirt.
That is the fairy mound, andthis is the most interesting and
the one I think your watchersand listeners will love.
(21:55):
It might be a Celtic goddess,because there are a number of
Celtic goddesses who have,apparently, with the coming of
(22:22):
Christianity which, I apologizeto the Irish, I'm no doubt
mispronouncing it, forgive me,I'm German, but Aene was the
goddess well about right now ofspring, of summer, of fertility,
of the animals, of the crops,of the people, in other words,
(22:46):
all of the good stuff.
And she was connected to theFitz no one saw that Fitzgerald
and the Okara families, okarafamilies and she had a fairy
(23:09):
mound near Nakene, which is inCounty Limerick.
And, if you like folklore andancient rituals, there was a
ritual that survived way in thehistoric times through the 1800s
, probably well into the 1900s.
On Midsummer this might beMidsummer or it might be right
(23:46):
around Beltane People of thearea would gather at this mound
and they would perform like adance, a ritual, and then they
would have torches and theywould take these torches and
they would go scattering off indifferent directions and going
into the different fields.
That way you're bringing thefertilizing power of Aene to the
different farms and the fields.
(24:07):
And now she is a banshee.
And also, I won't give thestory now, but I'll just say in
the book I have another goddessnamed Cleona, and I have an
incredible story, a hilariousstory actually about her, and
(24:30):
she's now a banshee too.
So it's one of three things aghost, a fairy or an ancient
goddess, a fairy or an ancientgoddess?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Why do you think a goddess would, especially one
who's to?
Life and fertility are alsodeath goddesses.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
I'll give you one very familiar example of that.
It's Aphrodite.
She was also a death goddess,and keep in mind the Khorne
goddess, demeter, who was herdaughter, kor, or, as we know,
her Persephone, who became thequeen of the dead.
(25:33):
So, yes, you have life anddeath together in the same
symbolic person.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Interesting.
That does make sense.
So how far back do stories ofBanshees go?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
The oldest one that I could find.
I'm sure it goes much furtherthan that was from the ancient
Ireland and the story of thegreat Irish hero, cuchulainn.
Now, you probably heard hisname.
They say that Cuchulainn is theIrish Heracles, but personally
(26:14):
I think that Heracles is theGreek Cuchulainn.
Now he saw the goddess.
Now this is one that stop me,if you've heard her name before
Morrigan.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Oh yeah, who created panic among soldiers?
Maka, who spent her timeusually as a crow, flying in
circles above a battlefieldwaiting for dinner to be served,
and Baal, who was the greatwasherwoman.
(26:58):
And Morrigan fell in love withCuchulain, the big, strong
He-Man hero, but he didn't wantanything to do with her because
he was in the middle of war.
He spent a lot of time in warand on his last battle,
(27:20):
cuchulain was walking with thedruid Cathbad and they saw out
in the stream a woman who waswashing the clothes and the
armor of a warrior.
Well, this armor and clothingwas just covered in blood and
(27:41):
the water was turning scarletaround her.
And Cathbad said look,cuchulain, you know whose
clothes he's washing.
Why, that's yours.
That means that if you go aheadand you fight in this battle,
(28:02):
you will die for certain.
Come, let's turn around andlet's go back, because you're
not going to live well,coochalane, turn around, run
away from a battle that beagleis not hunting.
He said you want to go?
Fine, safety is that way, thebattle is this way, that's where
I'm headed.
So he goes and you're going tolove this.
(28:25):
There is a standing stone on topof a mound.
Now, if you're into the laytheory.
You know, this is where the laylines go.
This is the spiritual power.
Well, he walked up to it, tookoff his belt, put it around the
stone and he fastened himself tothat stone.
(28:48):
That way, when he fell, hewould not touch the earth.
Not to touch the earth and notto see the sun from Sir James
Fraser.
Well, he started the fight andthe enemy was rushing up on him.
Spears were piercing him,arrows were piercing him, but he
(29:11):
just kept fighting.
But he was slowing down bit bybit, and then he wasn't moving
and there was a whole pile ofdead bodies in front of him and
the enemy soldiers were sayingis he resting, can we attack, or
is he suddenly going to comeout and start slicing again?
(29:34):
Well, flying overhead, whoshould be there?
But the banshee goddessMorrigan.
And she's in the form of a crow, and she says, as every woman
has said in their lives at leastonce if you want something done
right, you got to do ityourself.
(29:56):
So she flew down, landed righton his head, and they knew that.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
The great Kutulain was dead, but his body did not
touch the earth.
Did that prevent them frombeing able to conquer him
somehow?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
It had a spiritual significance.
Okay that he was still upright.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
You mentioned you had a whole stack of banshee
stories that you would like toshare with us.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Remember I told you about the ghosts who hate their
families, right?
Well, the Lady Fanshawe.
Back in the year 1649, she sawjust such a banshee.
Now you may not have heard thename, lady Fanshawe, but you
(30:52):
certainly enjoy her product,because she was the first person
in the English language to comeup with the recipe for ice
cream.
And this was in where are we?
At County Cork.
(31:12):
She was visiting a castle ownedby the O'Brien family, and this
was a very old, ancient castle.
It even had this big moat infront of it.
Well, she was there visitingwith the O'Briens and at
nighttime they became tired.
(31:34):
She went up to bed.
She got into bed, no doubtdreaming of sugary treats, and
suddenly she hears this wailingand crying outside of her window
.
Problem is, she's on the secondfloor and there's a moat.
(31:55):
So, okay, she gets up, shewalks, opens up the curtains and
she sees this beautiful Irishgirl with red hair that's
floating around like she'sunderwater.
And this lady is floating inair and she's looking in.
(32:18):
She's looking in at LadyFanshawe's clothes.
Well, the fact that you've beendead for a few centuries
doesn't mean you can't keep upwith the latest fashion.
And then, all of a sudden, thelady lets out another scream and
Lady Fanshawe is like shakingat this point and then the Irish
(32:39):
girl floats backwards into theair and then a third time she
lets out a scream and then shevanishes and Lady Fanshawe
closes the curtains and says,okay, I'm going to get a good
night's sleep now.
Well, in the morning she goesdown and she breakfast and
(33:03):
here's her host that comes inand they're talking and she said
now I had the strangest thinghappen to me last night.
Oh, he said yes, and sheexplained what happened and he
had a very guilty look on hisface and he said yes, you saw
(33:24):
the O'Brien family banshee.
Oh, we had someone in thecastle.
One of our family was dyinglast night, but we didn't want
to bother you because we knewyou wouldn't stay, so we put him
in another part of the castleand well, he passed away last
(33:44):
night.
The banshee that you saw wasfrom a few hundred years earlier
.
There was a prince or you know,the young heir, baron or
whatever, of the O'Brien family.
He fell in love and he marriedthe local girl, a peasant.
(34:07):
Now, back then it was not likea Hallmark Christmas movie.
If you were a nobility, you didnot marry the common people and
he brought her in and they werelegally married.
No one could kick her out, butthe family just gave him pure
(34:28):
hell.
How could you disgrace thefamily by doing this?
You're supposed to marry thedaughter of this baron over
there so we can get an alliance.
No, you had to fall in love.
Well, finally he got tired ofall of the nagging and he had
(34:48):
his young wife drowned in themoat.
Now, personally, I thinkmarrying beneath your station
that's not as bad as murderingyour wife.
But maybe it was a littledifferent back then.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
What a solution a little different back then.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
What a solution.
How about from 1879, right herein Cincinnati?
Wait what, yep?
Oh, you don't have to be inIreland.
So long as you are of thefamily an Irish family, pure
(35:31):
through and through and yourfamily has a banshee, it doesn't
matter where you go, thebanshee will come and see you.
Well, they had a guy named MrGaylor and he went into the city
hospital and he said can yougive me a tour?
I said, oh, okay, Well, usuallywe don't do this, but they took
(35:52):
him around and he was impressed.
They said why exactly did youwant a tour?
He said well, I heard thefamily banshee the other night
and I know I'm probably going towind up here, but your
facilities look great, I'll beseeing you soon.
He walked out.
(36:14):
They never saw him, but they didsee a banshee in animal form.
Okay, a black cat suddenlyappeared in the hospital and
everyone loved him.
You know the janitors, thedoctors, the nurses, attendants,
everyone had their little blackcat pet.
(36:37):
But then they noticed somethingvery weird All of a sudden at
night the cat would just gocrazy, run around in circles,
screeching and such, and as soonas it did that someone in the
hospital would die and they hadto remove the body, and this
(37:00):
happened like a dozen times andall of a sudden that cat was not
quite as popular as it had beenbefore.
Finally, the cat just left ofits own and nobody was in the
least bit sorry.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
That's amazing, Because you hear about cats who
will detect people who are aboutto die because of some
metabolic shift or somethinglike that and go cuddle up with
them.
But the idea that it wasscreaming specifically the cat
was screaming like a banshee.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I heard another animal type story of this and I
could not put it in the bookbecause I've read it years ago.
I mean, over my lifetime I'veread so many books.
I think the name of the bookwas called Passing Strange but I
haven't had time to dig it up.
(37:55):
But there was a family in NewEngland Irish family, maybe they
were in Boston and it was justa regular suburban family and
one day a German shepherd dogappeared and everyone in the
family is playing with the dogand having a wonderful time,
(38:18):
except the grandmother.
She was from the old countryand she saw that dog and she
wanted nothing to do with it andfinally the dog just left of
its own accord.
And as soon as it did they gotword that a close relative in
(38:39):
Ireland had passed away and thegrandmother said you idiots.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
That was a banshee, so it visited the family
completely on the other side ofthe world.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Oh yes, yes, when you hear the banshee or see it, you
don't know if it's coming foryou, someone in your immediate
family or someone in the moreextended family extended family
(39:20):
Okay, I do have a ratherhumorous Banshee motif.
Now.
You too may have been told thiswhen you were little, that if
you see a belief, the mosttreasured possession of a
banshee is her comb.
And sometimes she's a littlecareless and she'll drop it.
(39:43):
And if you grew up in Irelandand you see a comb on the ground
and you happen to be with yourgrandmother or something it'll
be, don't you dare pick that up.
That could be from a banshee.
And there is a folk motif whichtalks about a drunken Irishman I
(40:04):
know that's an impossibility,yeah, never heard of that.
Coming home from the pub onenight and he sees a banshee
combing her long hair, which iswhat they are often seen doing.
That's why they scream so muchand he says well, now that comb,
that'll be something to showthe boys back at the pub.
(40:27):
So he sneaks up behind, grabsthe comb, goes running off to
his house Look what I got.
And of course the banshee isnot happy with this and she
starts to chase after him.
And he gets home just in timeand slams the door and locks it,
(40:51):
and then she takes what'scalled a beetle, which is what
you use to pound clothing, theold-fashioned way to wash before
uh, you know, west point andsuch, and she throws that beetle
at the house and it crashes andeverything shakes, Dishes are
(41:13):
falling and breaking, and herecomes the family, down the step,
saying okay, what mischief areyou up to today, and why is
somebody shooting off artilleryin the front yard?
Well, he said, look what I got.
And the wife looks at him andsays, oh, my mother told me to
(41:36):
marry, well, but no, I was inlove, I had to pick the village
idiot.
So now, what are they going todo?
They have a very angry bansheewho wants her comb back.
So, naturally, being goodCatholics, you go to the priest
and the priest said first thing,you've got to give that comb
(41:59):
back, but don't under anycircumstances touch her, or let
her touch you Okay, alrightycircumstances.
Touch her, or let her touch you, okay, all righty.
So they figure it out whenshe's outside pounding on the
door, they take the iron tongsfrom the fireplace, they put the
comb in the tongs and theyslide it under the door and all
(42:23):
of a sudden it's like you have agreat white shark at the other
end and they pull back two ironrods.
She got her comb back and shetook half of the tong with her
and now he has something to showthe boys down at the pub.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
I didn't know there was a type of fairy that could
touch iron.
That's a surprising twist.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yes, yes.
Iron spirits, fairies, ghosts,demons cannot touch iron.
That is why, if you go to anold cemetery, it is surrounded
by an iron fence.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
It is surrounded by an iron fence, not necessarily
to keep the people out, which itwants to do, but to keep the
spirits in.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Maybe this was one of the goddess banshees that
doesn't have to follow thespirit rules.
Maybe it was Aene or Cleona.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Exactly so.
There's not just one banshee,then Every family has their own
banshee.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Oh, specific families , right, yes, it has to be a
certain specific family, andthere are actually lists of this
One of the books that Iresearched for this by modern
folklorist Patricia Lyslott.
She has the complete list inthe back and I give a lot of the
(43:56):
names in my book.
We see Devereaux.
Is there?
Flynn O'Brien, of course, thatwe spoke of.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
So this is a good reason to not be Irish.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Oh, you're not going to get away.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Yeah, you can't just not be Irish Now.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Becky and I, we would have to worry about an entity
known as the Weissefrau, theWhite Lady.
The White Lady and this is fromGermany, and there are plenty
of beautiful Gothic tales ofthis lady in white gliding down
(44:36):
the chambers in the evening.
You're sometimes holding acandle and when you see her you
know that someone in the familyis going to die.
Oh, that reminds me of a storyright there.
One of the most famous of Germanfamilies is the Hohenzollern,
(45:01):
where the Kaiser was from duringWorld War I.
This was his ruling family andhis family had a Weißfrau who
would announce their deaths.
And one day there was one ofthe princesses of the family in
(45:23):
I believe they were in theNeuschlaß that was in, might
have been in Austria and she wasfixing her hair in the mirror
and trying on a hat and she sawout of the corner of her eye
someone was walking.
She figured it was one of theservants and she just asked what
(45:44):
time is it?
And suddenly she heard thisghostly voice say it is 10
o'clock, my love, and she turnedaround and dressed all in white
.
There was the HohenzollernWeissefrau and within a few days
(46:05):
she was dead.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
So Weissefrau is equivalent, basically the German
banshee.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Oh you find death messengers all over the world,
and I'll give you one that youmight see in Oklahoma.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Okay, La Llorona Ah yes, you've heard of her.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
The weeping lady, the Mexican version of the Medea
myth.
Well, if you hear her, thatmeans that someone either you or
someone in your close family isgoing to be dying soon.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Oh wow.
Well, Stephen, thank you somuch for sharing all of this.
Stephen has written multiplebooks and, as you can tell, is
incredibly knowledgeable aboutfolklore from all over the world
, especially when it has to dowith Harbingers of Death.
Cry is recently released.
(47:05):
I believe we will have links toall of Stephen's books on our
website, in our show notes andin the description below.
So, stephen, thank you so muchfor joining us today.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
This was lovely.
I'm so glad we got a chance totalk to you Well thank you for
having me.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
I hope I can come on after the next book.
We'll see you again shortly.
Yeah Well, thank you very muchfor the interview today.
And Hainted Loves, what do youthink?
Would you answer the door ifyou heard one, two, three knocks
?
Because I think you probablyhave a spooky day.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Homespun Haints is hosted by Becky Kielimnik and
Diana Doty and produced byHomespun Haints is hosted by
Becky Kilimnik and Diana Dotyand produced by Home Spun Haints
Media LLC.
Editing and music by BeckyKilimnik.
Show notes by Diana Doty.
If you have a ghost story andyou'd like to be considered as a
guest for this podcast, pleasevisit our website at
homespunhaintscom.
(48:04):
Slash submit.
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