March 24, 2025 • 44 mins
JJ of Southern Demonology shares his fascinating journey from growing up in a haunted log cabin in rural Tennessee to encountering far more sinister spirits in Japan. His experiences reveal striking cultural differences in how ghosts and demons manifest across different parts of the world.
• Growing up in a 200-year-old log cabin with a ghost named Patrick who would mysteriously open the attic door
• Visiting Aokigahara (Japan's "Suicide Forest") and hearing an unexplainable sound that his companions couldn't detect
• Encountering a terrifying entity in Tokyo that demanded entry by repeating "hairu" directly into his mind
• Explaining the differences between Japanese spirit categories (yurei, yokai, and tsukumogami) and Western demonology
• Sharing his academic knowledge of Judeo-Christian demons, including the evolution of Lilith from Akkadian wind goddess to Jewish folklore
• Experiencing precognitive dreams that predicted future events, always appearing in black and white
If you'd like to learn more about demonology and paranormal experiences from around the world, check out JJ's podcasts: Southern Demonology and Paranormal Rundown.
Have you had a paranormal experience you want to tell a story about? Apply to be featured on our next episode: https://homespunhaints.com/submit-real-ghost-stories
Help support what we're doing and get all content ad-free plus bonus content: www.patreon.com/homespunhaints
Diana's notes, details, musings, and links for this particular episode:
Tired of websites that have been Frankensteined together using subpar body parts? Check out Becky and Diana's digital media and web design company, The Concept Spot, and let's make some digital spookiness together! theconceptspot.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Can a place's culture determine how its ghosts and
demons interact with the living?
Jj, who grew up in a hauntedhouse in rural Tennessee,
thought he could handle any kindof ghost, but when he moved to
Japan he realized that spiritsin the land of the rising sun
operate differently than theghosts he was used to.
(00:25):
Let's take a journey from oneside of the globe to the other
and learn about all the sinistercreatures in between.
Today, on Homespun Hates Hello,hated loves, Welcome to
Homespun Haints.
(00:46):
I'm Becky, hey, I'm Diana, andI may sound a little husky to
you.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Ooh husky like your dog Fluffy.
I have a cold and a minorconcussion, so I'm kind of like
and Becky, I'm just impressedthat the only cold that can keep
you down for more than 24 hoursis one that comes with a
concussion.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, I was sick, but I went roller skating anyway.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Let that be a lesson to everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Do not roller skate when you have a head cold and
you're not quite on balance anddoing your best anyway,
especially if you haven't doneit for 40 years, I think a head
cold moves your center ofgravity to like right at your
third eye.
Well, my third eye was notoperating properly because it
caused me to wipe out and Ibroke the fall with my skull.
Anyway, today on the show.
We are so thrilled to bring onJJ of Southern Demonology.
(01:38):
Diana, I'm sure you also had somuch fun talking to this guy.
Oh yeah, he's amazing, he's soknowledgeable.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I was expecting him to be just kind of basically
like us, collecting tales aboutparanormal etc.
No, he's got like 400 advanceddegrees in stuff like this.
And he puts us to shame withhis knowledge.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Well, not only is he incredibly knowledgeable, but
then he's been to some of theseplaces that are so haunted and
then, of course, he hadexperiences there.
So you guys are really, reallygoing to love this.
So, as you all know, I have twokids my son.
The other day I came upstairsand I found my son sitting on
the bridge.
(02:22):
You know, we have a bridge inour house because we have a
weird ass house.
So he's sitting up on thebridge on the second floor and
he's grinning from ear to ear.
Uh oh.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, exactly, it's like what's going on?
This can't be good news.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And he's like mom I made a friend.
Oh, and of course my littleghosty sensors go off and I'm
like was it an imaginary friend?
No, unfortunately, it was very,very real.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Oh, was it a cockroach.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Of course it was.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And he's like yeah, we've been hanging out and
talking.
He's like his name is Stephen.
And I was like okay, I don'tsee it anywhere.
Was this's like?
Yeah, we've been hanging outand talking.
He's like his name is Stephen.
And I was like, okay, I don'tsee it anywhere.
Was this an imaginary cockroachfriend?
And he's like no, he's, he'sreal.
And of course, my daughter'slike starts running around
screaming and I don't see thisroach anywhere, right, and I'm
like are you sure, bud?
(03:22):
And I'm leaning on the railingof the bridge and he's like
there he is, and like there'sSteven, like right up to my hand
.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
And I'm like and my daughter's screaming.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And my son's like, hi , hi, steven, this is my mom,
meet my mom.
And I'm like, oh gosh, my sonis like dancing, he's so
delighted, I'm screaming.
My son is like dancing, he's sodelighted, I'm screaming, I
nearly fall off the bridge andI'm like, okay, all right,
stephen's got to go.
And my son is like, don't killhim, he's my friend.
I found one of those like solocups that I keep around for
(03:55):
parties.
Stephen became the party and Imanaged to like get him in the
solo cup and like run down thedoor, just as he's like climbing
out and starting to like climbon my hand.
I'm like, no, stephen, no,don't touch me.
(04:15):
And we ran out the front doorand I like I just like slung him
and the cup out in the yard.
But yeah, I was able to,confidently.
I was so proud of myself.
I found a solution to getStephen out of the house without
upsetting my son, who was likegenuinely disturbed by the idea
that I would kill his new friendit's a friend.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You can't kill a friend.
Your son and I are kindredspirits and I used to entertain
my mom by filling my pocketswith terrestrial isopods every
day.
Well, not, no, sorry, thatwould have been predictable.
Not every day, maybe like once,once every couple of weeks.
(04:49):
So she's doing laundry andturning the pockets inside out.
Roly polies, just go fly out ofthe pockets once every couple of
weeks, suddenly surprise, andof course I I got chastised for
hiding bugs in my pockets, butthat didn't stop me because I
still had to make friendssomehow.
However, now I want to say thatas a successfully networked
(05:14):
adult, I now keep my roly poliesin this plant right here behind
me and they're eating theleaves and they're having roly
poly sex and they are thehappiest little roly-poly farm I
have ever seen.
They're so happy they don'tleave the plant.
I finally found the perfectfriend pet um, aren't they like
pests?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
are they?
They're not supposed to.
You don't want them in yourplant, do you?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
my plant's healthier than it's ever been.
What doesn't kill you makes youstronger, becky, just like
finding cockroaches in yourhouse.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Well, yeah, another fun story about my son, just
because we're on a roll here thenext day my daughter's about to
go to high school.
So the next day we were goingto the high school to check it
out and of course I'm like let'sbring the whole family, why not
?
I don't want to leave my sonhome by himself.
He might befriend more bugs.
So we're walking through theparking lot, past the music
(06:08):
building, into the main buildingof the high school and there's
some high schoolers like jokingaround on the steps and one of
them jumps up Maybe he saw aroach and he goes oh shit, like
that.
And then he looks over and hesees me holding the hand of an
11 year old boy and he's like oh, I mean, oh crap, I mean I'm
sorry, I'm sorry.
(06:29):
And my son, without skipping abeat, goes how dare you?
I'm a child.
Which mortified this poor highschooler.
(06:50):
I mean, this kid looked like hewas like rough and tough.
And then he suddenly is sohumbled, he's like I'm really,
really sorry.
And he's looking at mehorrified, looking at my son
horrified, who manages to keep astraight face through all of
this.
Seriously, and I lost it.
I burst out laughing.
I was doubled over.
I think this poor kid was soconfused.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I used to being outsmarted by a tween.
I love it.
What a weirdo.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I love him.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Oh, that was a fabulous story and for those of
you who enjoy our stories morethan our guests' stories you
weirdos don't forget that we dohave a Patreon at patreoncom
slash homespunhaints, whereyou'll get content.
That's basically just this crap.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
With some actual like really cool ghost stories,
facts and things.
Yeah, we just posted somethingabout what to do on the equinox
for our higher level tiers, andthen we also have a book club
and we're doing a tarot readingsoon.
We hadn't asked us anythingrecently.
That went really well.
So, yeah, there's sorry, my brastrap is showing.
Hang on, get up in there.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
How dare you?
I'm a child been there.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
How dare you?
I'm a child, so be sure youcheck it out at patreoncom.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
slash homespun hates.
But if that's not for you,that's okay.
This commercial is.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Oh man, I had a rough day.
What happened, honey?
I was out with the guys andthey well, and, and they said I
wasn't spooky enough.
Oh honey, how could they saythat to you?
You're hella spooky.
You think so, of course.
After all, you came up with theectoplasm being ghost jizz
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(09:19):
Today, on the show, we arethrilled to bring on jj, who is,
like us, a podcaster of very,very scary things.
(09:40):
He is the creator and host ofSouthern Demonology podcast,
which has just completed itsfifth season.
Is that correct, jj?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Congratulations.
And he is also one of theregular hosts of Paranormal
Rundown.
Thank you so much for beinghere with us.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Thank you.
I have really been lookingforward to speaking with y'all.
The moment that I read Haint inyour podcast title, you already
had my heart just from theget-go.
I grew up with it.
So that's all my grandmotherever referred to.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
So JJ, tell us where you're located, because we can
already gather that you'resomewhere in the South.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I grew up in the smallest town in Tennessee,
which is Slayton.
That's about an hour and a halfnorthwest of Nashville.
So I spent my entire life thereuntil I went off to college in
Virginia and then went toHarvard for grad school, and
since then I've lived in a lotof places, including Japan, for
(10:44):
a couple of years, before nowsettling into northern Virginia.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So you really have been around the world, and then
you came back to your roots.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I do, although I spend more and more time in in
West Tokyo now.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So, oh, jealous, I love Tokyo.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
It is one of the most incredible cities in the world
and the food Yum yum, yum, yumyum.
And it's known for this greenroad.
And it is a multi-city walkingpath, slash biking path that has
multiple parks, beautiful oldsakura trees, tons of old kadima
(11:38):
or little protector deitiesscattered along its route.
It's one of the most beautifulplaces in the world and it's one
of my most favorite places toever be.
It's a lot less scary thanAkihabara the suicide forest of
(11:58):
Aokigahara.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I don't know if I would dare venture into that.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Have you ever been in that forest?
I have, and it was one of thescariest experiences of my life.
So I lived in Japan fromshortly after the calamity of
311, where Fukushima Daiichikind of went up, and was there
for two years, and shortly aftergetting there I convinced a few
(12:32):
of my co-workers to go with meto Aokigahara, which in Japanese
translates to the Sea of Trees,because I have heard about it
for years.
I was just dying to experienceit.
There is something horriblydifferent about japanese spirits
, to the point where it's a lotmore sinister, and people that
(12:53):
visit these psychic spots, asthey're called, or hot spots
they they're literally takingtheir lives in their hands,
because a lot of them are justduds, but the ones that are
truly active are as scary asanything.
So we took thethree-and-a-half-hour drive to
(13:15):
Okegahara, which is this32-kilometer forest at the base
of Mount Fuji, and they have alot of different like very
interesting tourist attractionsthere, such as these ice and
volcano caves that have reallyinteresting cardboard dioramas
(13:37):
that depict all the ways thatyou can die If you misstep in
these places.
If they were in the US, theywould be sued into oblivion
after the first day of operation.
But anyway, after visiting a fewof these things, we then went
into the forest itself.
So I had about five coworkerswith me.
(13:59):
We parked the car, we walkedinto the forest and it's very,
very old.
The trees are absolutelymassive and one of the
particular quirks about thisplace is, the moment that you
walk in, all sound dies outbecause it's just, it's such a
(14:24):
sound barrier Like there's amassive highway just right next
door.
The moment you walk past thatforest line, you hear nothing.
However, I was hearingsomething in the background and
it was this slow and steady andit would repeat and it never
(14:51):
stopped.
And we didn't go that far intothe forest.
And, if your listeners don'tknow, akigahara is very famous
for people that go there andthey commit suicide in this
place, and this place has a longhistory of death and
(15:12):
desecration and it has a verysinister reputation, and it's a
well-deserved reputation at that.
It's the second most popularsuicide spot in the world, next
to the Golden Gate Bridge.
The further we went into thisforest and we walked for maybe
(15:32):
about 15, 20 minutes, the louderthe sound got.
And I would ask my coworkers doyou hear this?
And they said no, we don't hearanything and I am not psychic,
I am not sensitive by anystretch of the imagination, but
this sound just kept gettingunder my skin in a way that I
(15:57):
don't think I've everexperienced before, and the
hackles in the back of my neckjust was constantly going.
I had goosebumps going up anddown my arms constantly.
We took a few photos and thenafter about 20 minutes, I would
say, exploring around, I saidwe've got to go and they were
(16:20):
shocked.
They're like you're the one whowanted to come here, why are we
leaving right now?
And I said there's somethingreally wrong about this place.
We have to get out.
And we did, and I have neverbeen back.
I don't ever want to go back.
I have no idea what the soundwas, although most interesting.
(16:43):
On the recent episode of theParanormal Rundown, which is
this roundtable show of fourdifferent hosts and we have
guests occasionally where wejust bring up these random
paranormal topics by randomnumber generator and go to town
on them this topic came up andwe were talking and we have one
(17:06):
researcher that's on staff andthey started looking into this,
and other people have heard asimilar sound.
Some people claim that it's ababy crying, but other people
more commonly refer to it ashearing a monk intoning a sutra.
(17:27):
I still have no idea.
I don't claim to know, but Iwill never escape that sound.
I don't think, because I stillhear it.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So you couldn't place the sound at all.
And yet some other people aresaying they clearly heard a monk
singing or a baby crying.
If you had to just speculateguess about what was making that
noise that you heard, whatwould be the closest thing?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I don't know if it's spirits of the dead that are
whining out.
That's the closest thing that Icould possibly speculate about.
But I also kind of resist thatidea because I, even though I I
grew up with ghost stories, Ithoroughly believe in them.
I had other supernaturalexperiences in japan, one in
(18:17):
particular that I cannot evenpossibly begin to describe or
explain.
I'm still very scientificallyminded and it bugs the
ever-living crap out of me thatI can't come up with a good
explanation for it.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I'll put it that way, Okegahara is what it's called
right.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Having been there physically, do you feel like you
understand a little bit morewhy people go to the forest to
take their life?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
There is absolutely an attracting force to that
place.
It is old, it is ancient, it isdeep and it is dark.
And the saddest part is thateven when people go there to
commit this act and sometimesthey go alone, sometimes they
(19:06):
travel in a pack and then theydisperse after the fact a lot of
them don't have the courage todo it immediately and so they
will camp out until they gatherthe courage to commit that final
act.
And yeah, people there used tobe very frequent, like monthly
(19:27):
treks that the authorities wouldtake through the forest to find
these individuals.
After COVID that was cut downto like once every six months or
so, but you could still findabandoned tents and it's just
horribly, horribly sad.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Why do you think the group that you went with didn't
hear anything and you heard itso clearly and so constantly?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Maybe it's just because I was more open to it.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Sometimes, when you go looking for it, it shows up
right.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Even if you're not, as you say, sensitive, there's
still a sensitivity that comesfrom knowledge.
I do want to get back to someof the scary experiences you had
in Japan, but I also know thatyou are an expert in demonology.
(20:18):
Think of, in the Western world,which are mostly, from you know
, judeo-christian perspective,versus the demons in Japan,
because it's a completelydifferent way of thinking of
spirits, demons, kami, you havein that, like the Shinto
Buddhist culture.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yep, absolutely.
There's roughly two differentkinds of categories that you
have.
You have your yude, which areyour ghosts, and then you have
your bakimono, your monsters, oryokai, as they're more commonly
referred to here.
It's the yokai that tend tofall into the more evil category
(20:59):
, I guess you can say, althoughthere are various shades to that
.
You have your oni, which arelike kind of japanese ogres.
You have your tengu, which arewinged creatures that are
usually depicted with very longnoses and they're more
tricksters than they are justoutright evil, although they
(21:22):
have very deliberate, meanstreaks in them.
And then you even have thecomic relief of the kami world,
which is like kamikaze obake,which is this umbrella monster
that has a long tongue and oneeye and it's depicted on one leg
, but that kind of crosses intoa third dimension, which is a
(21:44):
tsukimori.
These are entities that arisefrom an object being futile or
old and used often, which meansthat they get a soul that's
attached to them and they becomealive, and this is everything
from umbrellas to lanterns, toeven paper walls that have holes
(22:05):
in them and eyes will developwithin those crevices.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So, jj, you also study a lot of Christian
demonology and Jewish demonology?
I know that you have on yourseason five finale.
You had a priest and a deaconon your show.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yes, that would be the exorcist duo from Georgia,
father Birdsong and his son,deacon Josh.
We are very fast friends.
They have dealt with a ton ofdifferent experiences in helping
people experiences and helpingpeople.
(22:49):
I'm very strongly drawn toaiding or assisting exorcists
because everything that they dois an act of loving sacrifice.
But I am much more of anacademic when it comes to the
study of demonology.
I am not a practicer, I'm notan exorcist, although I know
more than enough protectionstuff now to get by, and I
mainly focus in Second TempleJudaism.
(23:13):
So I'm much more familiar withwell, I'm equally familiar with
the Christian side and with theJudaic side.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
There's a really rich history in demonology that is,
like you said, very particularto Judaism.
Could you care to give us alittle bit of information about
that?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
So there's a few different aspects to it.
There's a lot ofinterconnectedness when it comes
to the belief systems thatsprouted up within the Middle
Eastern area, and one of theprimary examples of that is
Lilith, who started off as oneof three Akkadian wind goddesses
(23:58):
Lilu Lili and Water Lil lilitand that last one especially was
associated more with wantonsexuality and sexuality aimed at
very young girls.
I hate to say that she becamemore of a protector demon, but
(24:21):
then, when she was brought,brought into Judaism, that name
Lilit is actually the Hebrewword for darkness, and there's a
lot of folk etymology thattakes place during this time.
For example, the old phrasethat most people know as I walk
through the valley of the shadowof death.
(24:41):
That's not actually the shadowof death, that is a folk
etymology that took place.
It's actually Salamoweth, whichmeans the deepest, darkest
places, but because it combinedthe word shadow and Moweth,
which is death, people like, oh,it means shadow of death.
That's so awesome and it kindof stuck and it stayed that way.
(25:05):
Lilith, she was essentially anight hag in Jewish belief
systems that stayed in thedesert Dudael, which is where
all of the really, really badthings happened to live happened
(25:28):
to live until she eventuallyevolved into what was more
commonly known after, like themidrash and the talmud, to be
adam's first wife.
But that is much, much later andthere's a wide period of kind
of um fluidity.
But we know that, at leastwithin the dead sea scrolls, she
was still considered to be avery powerful knight entity,
(25:51):
because there's a very famousprayer uh, that's found in cave
4, 4, q, 5, 10 and 11 that andI'll just briefly give you a
little translation of it whichis my own and I, the instructor,
am making a proclamation of hismeaning God's glorious splendor
(26:11):
, in order to instill dread andto terrify all of the spirits of
the angels of destruction,which are the watchers from
first Enoch, the spirits of thebastards, which are the Nephilim
, the giants, demons, lilith,howlers, desert dwellers and
those who suddenly strike insuddenness to lead astray an
(26:34):
established spirit and to charmhearts, meaning, no matter how
faithful you were, these thingscould still tempt you away from
God's light.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
They called out Lilith specifically, amongst all
the other creatures.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
She was very important because she's one of
theseudepigrapha, which are thecollection of writings between
the Hebrew Bible and theChristian New Testament.
There are a ton of mentions ofthe demonic and that's where you
(27:15):
kind of get this evolution ofthought and there's a lot of
reasons why I'm not going tobore you with particular details
here, although I have a lot ofepisodes on Southern Demonology
that kind of explore all that.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
We'll make sure we link to those.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Exactly that's why you're here.
So, yes, so that our listenerscan get that backstory.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I cannot wait to binge all of that.
I am so fascinated.
Jj, I'm just sitting here goingwhoa, you know so much.
You said your own translation.
Are you fluent in Aramaic andHebrew?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Hebrew was one of my primary languages of 14 that I
studied while in undergrad andin grad school.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
You mentioned that you had other terrifying
experiences, not just limited toJapan.
You grew up with ghost storieshere in the South.
What are some stories that youwould like to share with us?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I grew up in a 200 plus year old log cabin in a
town of 113 people.
I call it a land of patchworkednightmares because there are
ghost stories for almost everysingle parcel of land around.
(28:31):
There were Native Americanburial mounds all over the place
, ones directly behind our houseand I grew up hearing ghost
stories my entire life.
In fact, even before I knewwhat storytelling was, I was
boring my friends and classmateswith all of the tales I had
(28:55):
accumulated and continue toaccumulate.
So the property right in frontof where I grew up it's called
the Colons because it's a woodedarea which is pitted with these
very deep holes, and the peoplethat own the place they
actually have blocked it offwith gates and everything else,
(29:18):
because there's been more than afew different accidents down
there.
Because there's been more thana few different accidents down
there.
One night right around Halloweenit was like two nights before
Halloween I was out playing withthe neighborhood kids and they
had like three foster kids andtwo blood children and we were
(29:41):
all playing in the front yardand we were playing Fright Night
.
So I was trying to scare allthe other kids and it was like a
modified version of the game oftag.
There came a period where Icouldn't find anybody.
So I went around to the back ofthe house and I was facing into
the colons, which is a verydangerous area that we all knew
not to go near, and I saw awhite figure in the woods.
(30:06):
At first, the only thing my mindcould reach onto was that it
had to be the eldest daughter,because she was tall, she was
thin and she was kind of pale,not glowing like what I was
seeing in front of me, but still, it's the only thing that my
mind made sense of, and I wasgetting freaked out, and so I
(30:27):
walked into the door down thereand there the entire family was
laughing at me because I hadbeen outside for 10 minutes by
myself and they had hid so thatI couldn't find them.
And, of course, the eldestdaughter was there as well.
And I still have no idea whatit was.
It was glowing and it was wayoff in the back of the woods
(30:51):
behind a closed gate.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
What was its behavior like other than glowing?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
It was just standing there, it was almost like it was
attracting moonlight to itself,and it was radiant.
It was almost as if it waswearing a skin of LED lights,
even though such things didn'texist back when I was 10 years
old.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
You said there are a lot of accidents that happened
there.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
So yeah, it very well could be.
In the house that I grew up in,the log cabin, there was just
one floor besides an attic.
My entire family said that itwas haunted by a spirit called
Patrick, and Patrick had shownup at various points in time
(31:38):
during everyone's life.
We used to have a uncle thatlived upstairs back when my mom
was a kid, and they would goupstairs and he would be gone,
but there would still be a bodyprint laying on the bed, so your
uncle had to share a bed withPatrick.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
That's not cool.
Your uncle had to share a bedwith Patrick.
That's not cool.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Yeah, that attic had a lot of weird stuff in it, to
the point where, even when I wasa kid growing up, all the doors
would be closed.
It was winter, there is no airmoving around, and yet that
attic door, which was only heldtogether by a wooden block that
(32:24):
you would twist up and down, itwould open itself up slowly and
then close itself again, andthat happened all the time.
I hated that attic door.
One night I was sleeping andwhere I slept it was essentially
(32:45):
two beds in the living room.
We were poor.
I mean, we were very, very poor.
The bed that I slept in wasdirectly across from the attic
door and I had this old pictureof my grandfather,
great-great-grandfather, thathung above the bed.
And one night I dreamed thatthat attic door opened up.
(33:07):
Attic door opened up, and thenI heard a voices out.
(33:32):
That memory until afterNovember 2nd.
It's like I can't think of thatday until after it happens, and
then I'll randomly go oh, Imade it through another November
2nd, that's great.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
The year is more important, Grandpa.
Yeah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
JJ.
We have time for maybe one morestory all right.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Well then, let me finish up with my my biggest
story.
I was living in tokyo itselfand I was working for a japanese
company.
I will never work for anotherjapanese company.
It was very exploitative innature, I guess, from the amount
(34:13):
of work and the amount of hoursthat you had to pump into it.
But anyway, it was around 5 am,I had just finished working for
the night and I crashed out onthe bed.
On the bed and I dreamed of anentity standing on my balcony,
(34:40):
this particular place that wewere staying in.
It was only about 400 squarefeet in size, so it's very small
, but the balcony was about thesame size as the room, and the
balcony overlooked Tokyo tower,so it was a phenomenal location
that, thankfully, I didn't pay$6,000 a month for it, but the
company did.
(35:00):
But anyway, I dreamed that thereis this thing on the outside
and it was banging on the glassto get in and it kept saying one
word over and over again, whichis haeru, haeru, haeru, haeru,
haeru.
The weirdest part about it wasI did not hear it with my ears.
(35:25):
Instead, it was as if the soundwas being pumped directly into
the center of my brain and itcaused physical pain.
It was almost as if there was aloud, screeching Norwegian
death band playing, but it waspumped directly into my brain.
(35:46):
The next thing I know I'm beingawoken by an earthquake alarm
going off on my cell phone, butthat word stuck in my head and
so I rushed to this japaneseenglish dictionary that I had.
I look it up and this is whatconvinced me that this was not
(36:09):
just a dream.
The word means to enter.
This thing was demanding entry,and I know that even if I
wasn't paralyzed in fear, if Ihad opened that balcony door, I
would no longer be in this world.
I would no longer be in thisworld.
(36:40):
The weirdest part is that I livedirectly across a little
intersection from a very largegraveyard and there is a lot of
Japanese superstition around notwalking near graveyards because
you will attract something andit will follow you back home.
I grew up in graveyards.
I grew up mowing graveyards ofvarious family members.
I have spent more time ingraveyard than I can possibly
(37:02):
count.
I still remember burying my ownheadstone marker when I was six
years old.
That was a very interestingintroduction to mortality, let
me put it that way.
I never thought anything aboutit until that night, and I never
walked by that graveyard again,and I kept a very healthy
(37:25):
supply of purified salt pouredinto little bowls by that
balcony door to ward offanything that may be coming from
that direction.
Yeah, it really taught me,though.
That, along with my experiencein Naoki Kahata, convinced me
that even though I love ghoststories, I will never seek them
(37:49):
out in Japan because they areterrifying.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Whoa.
What did it look like in thedream?
It was transparent.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
That's the thing.
I had a vague sense of humanoidshape, but that was it.
And, even weirder, there is aTikTok channel.
There is a TikTok channel whichis ran by a Japanese group that
makes these kind of very shorthorror stories and they're very
(38:20):
well done.
But they had one in which itwas a.
You just see a frosted pane ofvery large glass like a sliding
door and there's a dark figurebehind it and it essentially is
saying the same thing that Iheard.
It says more, but the mainthing is Haidu, haidu, and
(38:47):
they're stupid enough to open itand the consequences are
immediate.
But I saw that and I'm a horrorconnoisseur.
I watch almost nothing buthorror movies.
I saw this and I flung my phoneacross the room because it
reminded me so vividly of thatexperience.
(39:09):
To this day, I still can'twatch that video because it
terrifies the ever-living heckout of me.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
And you did not know what this word hairu meant
before this happened.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
no, that's creepy.
Oh man, with all the experience, with dreams that you've had,
what do you think about thenotion of dream premonitions or
precognitive dreams?
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I honestly believe it's real because of the fact
that when I grew up, I wouldhave two distinct types of
dreams.
The regular ones are in veryvibrant color, but I would have
these other ones in which theywere in black and white.
I would have these other onesin which they were in black and
white and I never dream in blackand white and they always
(40:01):
pictured the idealized person ofhow I viewed myself in my head,
in my dreams.
In this idealized version itwas a little boy that had blonde
hair and was thin and Inotoriously am not and was thin
and I notoriously am not.
But whatever happened in thosedreams always came true, and it
(40:25):
may be a week later, it may be amonth later, but it always came
true.
There is one dream in which Ihad that I was running around a
cactus pot, a very large cactuspot, and I fell into it and got
hurt.
And a month later I was over atmy great aunt's house playing
around.
Running around, this giantpotted cactus fell into it, got
(40:45):
hurt not severely, but enough asa kid and suddenly this dream
came back to me as a horriblesense of deja vu.
So I haven't had them since Iwas a kid, but I very much
believe that.
Yeah, dreams are a precursor,and especially when dreams cause
(41:05):
physical pain, that shouldnever happen like ever.
But they do In.
In fact I've read in my dreamsbefore and that's also supposed
to never happen.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
and yes, yeah, becky does the same.
You're not supposed to be yeahI read I punch.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
In fact, one of the ways that I know that I'm
dreaming is it's hard for me touse the gps on my phone.
Like I, I switch letters whenI'm trying to punch things in
the GPS on my phone.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Wow, that is amazing.
Now, it's not a frequentoccurrence for me.
In fact, I only read in ancientlanguages when I dream, I don't
know why.
It's either in Hebrew or Ge'ez,and that's it.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Scream.
Well, JJ, this has been areally amazing conversation.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I have loved every minute of it and I can't thank
y'all enough for this.
I would love to talk to y'allagain.
I really would.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Yeah, I think you have a lot more stories.
We'll definitely be reachingout again.
This was wonderful.
So your podcasts are SouthernDemonology, which is hosted by
ACAST, but you can find it onany podcatcher, and then also
Paranormal Rundown, which youcan also find everywhere.
Do you have specific websitesfor each of these?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Paranormal Rundown is still coming.
But for Southern Demonology,yeah, it is
southerndemonologycom, and ithas our various social media
platforms, in addition tospecific podcasting platforms,
and then you can also contact methrough it, or you can also
listen to episodes directly fromthe website as well.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Painted loves.
What do you think?
Would you enter the cold tofind the glowing spirit behind
the gate?
Would you enter the suicideforest and embrace the silence?
Either way, we hope you had aspooky day.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Homespun Haints is hosted by Becky Kilimnik and
Diana Doty and produced byHomespun Haints Media LLC.
Editing and music by BeckyKilimnik.
Show notes by Diana Doty.
If you have a ghost story andyou'd like to be considered as a
guest for this podcast, pleasevisit our website at
homespunhaintscom.
(43:16):
Slash submit.
Can a place's culture determine how its ghosts and
demons interact with the living?
Jj, who grew up in a hauntedhouse in rural Tennessee,
thought he could handle any kindof ghost, but when he moved to
Japan he realized that spiritsin the land of the rising sun
operate differently than theghosts he was used to.
(00:25):
Let's take a journey from oneside of the globe to the other
and learn about all the sinistercreatures in between.
Today, on Homespun Hates Hello,hated loves, Welcome to
Homespun Haints.
(00:46):
I'm Becky, hey, I'm Diana, andI may sound a little husky to
you.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Ooh husky like your dog Fluffy.
I have a cold and a minorconcussion, so I'm kind of like
and Becky, I'm just impressedthat the only cold that can keep
you down for more than 24 hoursis one that comes with a
concussion.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Yeah, I was sick, but I went roller skating anyway.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Let that be a lesson to everybody.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Do not roller skate when you have a head cold and
you're not quite on balance anddoing your best anyway,
especially if you haven't doneit for 40 years, I think a head
cold moves your center ofgravity to like right at your
third eye.
Well, my third eye was notoperating properly because it
caused me to wipe out and Ibroke the fall with my skull.
Anyway, today on the show.
We are so thrilled to bring onJJ of Southern Demonology.
(01:38):
Diana, I'm sure you also had somuch fun talking to this guy.
Oh yeah, he's amazing, he's soknowledgeable.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I was expecting him to be just kind of basically
like us, collecting tales aboutparanormal etc.
No, he's got like 400 advanceddegrees in stuff like this.
And he puts us to shame withhis knowledge.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Well, not only is he incredibly knowledgeable, but
then he's been to some of theseplaces that are so haunted and
then, of course, he hadexperiences there.
So you guys are really, reallygoing to love this.
So, as you all know, I have twokids my son.
The other day I came upstairsand I found my son sitting on
the bridge.
(02:22):
You know, we have a bridge inour house because we have a
weird ass house.
So he's sitting up on thebridge on the second floor and
he's grinning from ear to ear.
Uh oh.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, exactly, it's like what's going on?
This can't be good news.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And he's like mom I made a friend.
Oh, and of course my littleghosty sensors go off and I'm
like was it an imaginary friend?
No, unfortunately, it was very,very real.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Oh, was it a cockroach.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Of course it was.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
And he's like yeah, we've been hanging out and
talking.
He's like his name is Stephen.
And I was like okay, I don'tsee it anywhere.
Was this's like?
Yeah, we've been hanging outand talking.
He's like his name is Stephen.
And I was like, okay, I don'tsee it anywhere.
Was this an imaginary cockroachfriend?
And he's like no, he's, he'sreal.
And of course, my daughter'slike starts running around
screaming and I don't see thisroach anywhere, right, and I'm
like are you sure, bud?
(03:22):
And I'm leaning on the railingof the bridge and he's like
there he is, and like there'sSteven, like right up to my hand
.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
And I'm like and my daughter's screaming.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And my son's like, hi , hi, steven, this is my mom,
meet my mom.
And I'm like, oh gosh, my sonis like dancing, he's so
delighted, I'm screaming.
My son is like dancing, he's sodelighted, I'm screaming, I
nearly fall off the bridge andI'm like, okay, all right,
stephen's got to go.
And my son is like, don't killhim, he's my friend.
I found one of those like solocups that I keep around for
(03:55):
parties.
Stephen became the party and Imanaged to like get him in the
solo cup and like run down thedoor, just as he's like climbing
out and starting to like climbon my hand.
I'm like, no, stephen, no,don't touch me.
(04:15):
And we ran out the front doorand I like I just like slung him
and the cup out in the yard.
But yeah, I was able to,confidently.
I was so proud of myself.
I found a solution to getStephen out of the house without
upsetting my son, who was likegenuinely disturbed by the idea
that I would kill his new friendit's a friend.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You can't kill a friend.
Your son and I are kindredspirits and I used to entertain
my mom by filling my pocketswith terrestrial isopods every
day.
Well, not, no, sorry, thatwould have been predictable.
Not every day, maybe like once,once every couple of weeks.
(04:49):
So she's doing laundry andturning the pockets inside out.
Roly polies, just go fly out ofthe pockets once every couple of
weeks, suddenly surprise, andof course I I got chastised for
hiding bugs in my pockets, butthat didn't stop me because I
still had to make friendssomehow.
However, now I want to say thatas a successfully networked
(05:14):
adult, I now keep my roly poliesin this plant right here behind
me and they're eating theleaves and they're having roly
poly sex and they are thehappiest little roly-poly farm I
have ever seen.
They're so happy they don'tleave the plant.
I finally found the perfectfriend pet um, aren't they like
pests?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
are they?
They're not supposed to.
You don't want them in yourplant, do you?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
my plant's healthier than it's ever been.
What doesn't kill you makes youstronger, becky, just like
finding cockroaches in yourhouse.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Well, yeah, another fun story about my son, just
because we're on a roll here thenext day my daughter's about to
go to high school.
So the next day we were goingto the high school to check it
out and of course I'm like let'sbring the whole family, why not
?
I don't want to leave my sonhome by himself.
He might befriend more bugs.
So we're walking through theparking lot, past the music
(06:08):
building, into the main buildingof the high school and there's
some high schoolers like jokingaround on the steps and one of
them jumps up Maybe he saw aroach and he goes oh shit, like
that.
And then he looks over and hesees me holding the hand of an
11 year old boy and he's like oh, I mean, oh crap, I mean I'm
sorry, I'm sorry.
(06:29):
And my son, without skipping abeat, goes how dare you?
I'm a child.
Which mortified this poor highschooler.
(06:50):
I mean, this kid looked like hewas like rough and tough.
And then he suddenly is sohumbled, he's like I'm really,
really sorry.
And he's looking at mehorrified, looking at my son
horrified, who manages to keep astraight face through all of
this.
Seriously, and I lost it.
I burst out laughing.
I was doubled over.
I think this poor kid was soconfused.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
I used to being outsmarted by a tween.
I love it.
What a weirdo.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I love him.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Oh, that was a fabulous story and for those of
you who enjoy our stories morethan our guests' stories you
weirdos don't forget that we dohave a Patreon at patreoncom
slash homespunhaints, whereyou'll get content.
That's basically just this crap.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
With some actual like really cool ghost stories,
facts and things.
Yeah, we just posted somethingabout what to do on the equinox
for our higher level tiers, andthen we also have a book club
and we're doing a tarot readingsoon.
We hadn't asked us anythingrecently.
That went really well.
So, yeah, there's sorry, my brastrap is showing.
Hang on, get up in there.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
How dare you?
I'm a child been there.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
How dare you?
I'm a child, so be sure youcheck it out at patreoncom.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
slash homespun hates.
But if that's not for you,that's okay.
This commercial is.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Oh man, I had a rough day.
What happened, honey?
I was out with the guys andthey well, and, and they said I
wasn't spooky enough.
Oh honey, how could they saythat to you?
You're hella spooky.
You think so, of course.
After all, you came up with theectoplasm being ghost jizz
theory and you've been scratchedby more horny ghosts than
anyone else.
I know, Well, I suppose you'reright.
(08:36):
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(09:19):
Today, on the show, we arethrilled to bring on jj, who is,
like us, a podcaster of very,very scary things.
(09:40):
He is the creator and host ofSouthern Demonology podcast,
which has just completed itsfifth season.
Is that correct, jj?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Congratulations.
And he is also one of theregular hosts of Paranormal
Rundown.
Thank you so much for beinghere with us.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Thank you.
I have really been lookingforward to speaking with y'all.
The moment that I read Haint inyour podcast title, you already
had my heart just from theget-go.
I grew up with it.
So that's all my grandmotherever referred to.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
So JJ, tell us where you're located, because we can
already gather that you'resomewhere in the South.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I grew up in the smallest town in Tennessee,
which is Slayton.
That's about an hour and a halfnorthwest of Nashville.
So I spent my entire life thereuntil I went off to college in
Virginia and then went toHarvard for grad school, and
since then I've lived in a lotof places, including Japan, for
(10:44):
a couple of years, before nowsettling into northern Virginia.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So you really have been around the world, and then
you came back to your roots.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I do, although I spend more and more time in in
West Tokyo now.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So, oh, jealous, I love Tokyo.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
It is one of the most incredible cities in the world
and the food Yum yum, yum, yumyum.
And it's known for this greenroad.
And it is a multi-city walkingpath, slash biking path that has
multiple parks, beautiful oldsakura trees, tons of old kadima
(11:38):
or little protector deitiesscattered along its route.
It's one of the most beautifulplaces in the world and it's one
of my most favorite places toever be.
It's a lot less scary thanAkihabara the suicide forest of
(11:58):
Aokigahara.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
I don't know if I would dare venture into that.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Have you ever been in that forest?
I have, and it was one of thescariest experiences of my life.
So I lived in Japan fromshortly after the calamity of
311, where Fukushima Daiichikind of went up, and was there
for two years, and shortly aftergetting there I convinced a few
(12:32):
of my co-workers to go with meto Aokigahara, which in Japanese
translates to the Sea of Trees,because I have heard about it
for years.
I was just dying to experienceit.
There is something horriblydifferent about japanese spirits
, to the point where it's a lotmore sinister, and people that
(12:53):
visit these psychic spots, asthey're called, or hot spots
they they're literally takingtheir lives in their hands,
because a lot of them are justduds, but the ones that are
truly active are as scary asanything.
So we took thethree-and-a-half-hour drive to
(13:15):
Okegahara, which is this32-kilometer forest at the base
of Mount Fuji, and they have alot of different like very
interesting tourist attractionsthere, such as these ice and
volcano caves that have reallyinteresting cardboard dioramas
(13:37):
that depict all the ways thatyou can die If you misstep in
these places.
If they were in the US, theywould be sued into oblivion
after the first day of operation.
But anyway, after visiting a fewof these things, we then went
into the forest itself.
So I had about five coworkerswith me.
(13:59):
We parked the car, we walkedinto the forest and it's very,
very old.
The trees are absolutelymassive and one of the
particular quirks about thisplace is, the moment that you
walk in, all sound dies outbecause it's just, it's such a
(14:24):
sound barrier Like there's amassive highway just right next
door.
The moment you walk past thatforest line, you hear nothing.
However, I was hearingsomething in the background and
it was this slow and steady andit would repeat and it never
(14:51):
stopped.
And we didn't go that far intothe forest.
And, if your listeners don'tknow, akigahara is very famous
for people that go there andthey commit suicide in this
place, and this place has a longhistory of death and
(15:12):
desecration and it has a verysinister reputation, and it's a
well-deserved reputation at that.
It's the second most popularsuicide spot in the world, next
to the Golden Gate Bridge.
The further we went into thisforest and we walked for maybe
(15:32):
about 15, 20 minutes, the louderthe sound got.
And I would ask my coworkers doyou hear this?
And they said no, we don't hearanything and I am not psychic,
I am not sensitive by anystretch of the imagination, but
this sound just kept gettingunder my skin in a way that I
(15:57):
don't think I've everexperienced before, and the
hackles in the back of my neckjust was constantly going.
I had goosebumps going up anddown my arms constantly.
We took a few photos and thenafter about 20 minutes, I would
say, exploring around, I saidwe've got to go and they were
(16:20):
shocked.
They're like you're the one whowanted to come here, why are we
leaving right now?
And I said there's somethingreally wrong about this place.
We have to get out.
And we did, and I have neverbeen back.
I don't ever want to go back.
I have no idea what the soundwas, although most interesting.
(16:43):
On the recent episode of theParanormal Rundown, which is
this roundtable show of fourdifferent hosts and we have
guests occasionally where wejust bring up these random
paranormal topics by randomnumber generator and go to town
on them this topic came up andwe were talking and we have one
(17:06):
researcher that's on staff andthey started looking into this,
and other people have heard asimilar sound.
Some people claim that it's ababy crying, but other people
more commonly refer to it ashearing a monk intoning a sutra.
(17:27):
I still have no idea.
I don't claim to know, but Iwill never escape that sound.
I don't think, because I stillhear it.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
So you couldn't place the sound at all.
And yet some other people aresaying they clearly heard a monk
singing or a baby crying.
If you had to just speculateguess about what was making that
noise that you heard, whatwould be the closest thing?
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I don't know if it's spirits of the dead that are
whining out.
That's the closest thing that Icould possibly speculate about.
But I also kind of resist thatidea because I, even though I I
grew up with ghost stories, Ithoroughly believe in them.
I had other supernaturalexperiences in japan, one in
(18:17):
particular that I cannot evenpossibly begin to describe or
explain.
I'm still very scientificallyminded and it bugs the
ever-living crap out of me thatI can't come up with a good
explanation for it.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I'll put it that way, Okegahara is what it's called
right.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Having been there physically, do you feel like you
understand a little bit morewhy people go to the forest to
take their life?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
There is absolutely an attracting force to that
place.
It is old, it is ancient, it isdeep and it is dark.
And the saddest part is thateven when people go there to
commit this act and sometimesthey go alone, sometimes they
(19:06):
travel in a pack and then theydisperse after the fact a lot of
them don't have the courage todo it immediately and so they
will camp out until they gatherthe courage to commit that final
act.
And yeah, people there used tobe very frequent, like monthly
(19:27):
treks that the authorities wouldtake through the forest to find
these individuals.
After COVID that was cut downto like once every six months or
so, but you could still findabandoned tents and it's just
horribly, horribly sad.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Why do you think the group that you went with didn't
hear anything and you heard itso clearly and so constantly?
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Maybe it's just because I was more open to it.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Sometimes, when you go looking for it, it shows up
right.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Even if you're not, as you say, sensitive, there's
still a sensitivity that comesfrom knowledge.
I do want to get back to someof the scary experiences you had
in Japan, but I also know thatyou are an expert in demonology.
(20:18):
Think of, in the Western world,which are mostly, from you know
, judeo-christian perspective,versus the demons in Japan,
because it's a completelydifferent way of thinking of
spirits, demons, kami, you havein that, like the Shinto
Buddhist culture.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yep, absolutely.
There's roughly two differentkinds of categories that you
have.
You have your yude, which areyour ghosts, and then you have
your bakimono, your monsters, oryokai, as they're more commonly
referred to here.
It's the yokai that tend tofall into the more evil category
(20:59):
, I guess you can say, althoughthere are various shades to that
.
You have your oni, which arelike kind of japanese ogres.
You have your tengu, which arewinged creatures that are
usually depicted with very longnoses and they're more
tricksters than they are justoutright evil, although they
(21:22):
have very deliberate, meanstreaks in them.
And then you even have thecomic relief of the kami world,
which is like kamikaze obake,which is this umbrella monster
that has a long tongue and oneeye and it's depicted on one leg
, but that kind of crosses intoa third dimension, which is a
(21:44):
tsukimori.
These are entities that arisefrom an object being futile or
old and used often, which meansthat they get a soul that's
attached to them and they becomealive, and this is everything
from umbrellas to lanterns, toeven paper walls that have holes
(22:05):
in them and eyes will developwithin those crevices.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So, jj, you also study a lot of Christian
demonology and Jewish demonology?
I know that you have on yourseason five finale.
You had a priest and a deaconon your show.
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yes, that would be the exorcist duo from Georgia,
father Birdsong and his son,deacon Josh.
We are very fast friends.
They have dealt with a ton ofdifferent experiences in helping
people experiences and helpingpeople.
(22:49):
I'm very strongly drawn toaiding or assisting exorcists
because everything that they dois an act of loving sacrifice.
But I am much more of anacademic when it comes to the
study of demonology.
I am not a practicer, I'm notan exorcist, although I know
more than enough protectionstuff now to get by, and I
mainly focus in Second TempleJudaism.
(23:13):
So I'm much more familiar withwell, I'm equally familiar with
the Christian side and with theJudaic side.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
There's a really rich history in demonology that is,
like you said, very particularto Judaism.
Could you care to give us alittle bit of information about
that?
Speaker 3 (23:33):
So there's a few different aspects to it.
There's a lot ofinterconnectedness when it comes
to the belief systems thatsprouted up within the Middle
Eastern area, and one of theprimary examples of that is
Lilith, who started off as oneof three Akkadian wind goddesses
(23:58):
Lilu Lili and Water Lil lilitand that last one especially was
associated more with wantonsexuality and sexuality aimed at
very young girls.
I hate to say that she becamemore of a protector demon, but
(24:21):
then, when she was brought,brought into Judaism, that name
Lilit is actually the Hebrewword for darkness, and there's a
lot of folk etymology thattakes place during this time.
For example, the old phrasethat most people know as I walk
through the valley of the shadowof death.
(24:41):
That's not actually the shadowof death, that is a folk
etymology that took place.
It's actually Salamoweth, whichmeans the deepest, darkest
places, but because it combinedthe word shadow and Moweth,
which is death, people like, oh,it means shadow of death.
That's so awesome and it kindof stuck and it stayed that way.
(25:05):
Lilith, she was essentially anight hag in Jewish belief
systems that stayed in thedesert Dudael, which is where
all of the really, really badthings happened to live happened
(25:28):
to live until she eventuallyevolved into what was more
commonly known after, like themidrash and the talmud, to be
adam's first wife.
But that is much, much later andthere's a wide period of kind
of um fluidity.
But we know that, at leastwithin the dead sea scrolls, she
was still considered to be avery powerful knight entity,
(25:51):
because there's a very famousprayer uh, that's found in cave
4, 4, q, 5, 10 and 11 that andI'll just briefly give you a
little translation of it whichis my own and I, the instructor,
am making a proclamation of hismeaning God's glorious splendor
(26:11):
, in order to instill dread andto terrify all of the spirits of
the angels of destruction,which are the watchers from
first Enoch, the spirits of thebastards, which are the Nephilim
, the giants, demons, lilith,howlers, desert dwellers and
those who suddenly strike insuddenness to lead astray an
(26:34):
established spirit and to charmhearts, meaning, no matter how
faithful you were, these thingscould still tempt you away from
God's light.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
They called out Lilith specifically, amongst all
the other creatures.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
She was very important because she's one of
theseudepigrapha, which are thecollection of writings between
the Hebrew Bible and theChristian New Testament.
There are a ton of mentions ofthe demonic and that's where you
(27:15):
kind of get this evolution ofthought and there's a lot of
reasons why I'm not going tobore you with particular details
here, although I have a lot ofepisodes on Southern Demonology
that kind of explore all that.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
We'll make sure we link to those.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Exactly that's why you're here.
So, yes, so that our listenerscan get that backstory.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I cannot wait to binge all of that.
I am so fascinated.
Jj, I'm just sitting here goingwhoa, you know so much.
You said your own translation.
Are you fluent in Aramaic andHebrew?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Hebrew was one of my primary languages of 14 that I
studied while in undergrad andin grad school.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
You mentioned that you had other terrifying
experiences, not just limited toJapan.
You grew up with ghost storieshere in the South.
What are some stories that youwould like to share with us?
Speaker 3 (28:08):
I grew up in a 200 plus year old log cabin in a
town of 113 people.
I call it a land of patchworkednightmares because there are
ghost stories for almost everysingle parcel of land around.
(28:31):
There were Native Americanburial mounds all over the place
, ones directly behind our houseand I grew up hearing ghost
stories my entire life.
In fact, even before I knewwhat storytelling was, I was
boring my friends and classmateswith all of the tales I had
(28:55):
accumulated and continue toaccumulate.
So the property right in frontof where I grew up it's called
the Colons because it's a woodedarea which is pitted with these
very deep holes, and the peoplethat own the place they
actually have blocked it offwith gates and everything else,
(29:18):
because there's been more than afew different accidents down
there.
Because there's been more thana few different accidents down
there.
One night right around Halloweenit was like two nights before
Halloween I was out playing withthe neighborhood kids and they
had like three foster kids andtwo blood children and we were
(29:41):
all playing in the front yardand we were playing Fright Night
.
So I was trying to scare allthe other kids and it was like a
modified version of the game oftag.
There came a period where Icouldn't find anybody.
So I went around to the back ofthe house and I was facing into
the colons, which is a verydangerous area that we all knew
not to go near, and I saw awhite figure in the woods.
(30:06):
At first, the only thing my mindcould reach onto was that it
had to be the eldest daughter,because she was tall, she was
thin and she was kind of pale,not glowing like what I was
seeing in front of me, but still, it's the only thing that my
mind made sense of, and I wasgetting freaked out, and so I
(30:27):
walked into the door down thereand there the entire family was
laughing at me because I hadbeen outside for 10 minutes by
myself and they had hid so thatI couldn't find them.
And, of course, the eldestdaughter was there as well.
And I still have no idea whatit was.
It was glowing and it was wayoff in the back of the woods
(30:51):
behind a closed gate.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
What was its behavior like other than glowing?
Speaker 3 (30:55):
It was just standing there, it was almost like it was
attracting moonlight to itself,and it was radiant.
It was almost as if it waswearing a skin of LED lights,
even though such things didn'texist back when I was 10 years
old.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
You said there are a lot of accidents that happened
there.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
So yeah, it very well could be.
In the house that I grew up in,the log cabin, there was just
one floor besides an attic.
My entire family said that itwas haunted by a spirit called
Patrick, and Patrick had shownup at various points in time
(31:38):
during everyone's life.
We used to have a uncle thatlived upstairs back when my mom
was a kid, and they would goupstairs and he would be gone,
but there would still be a bodyprint laying on the bed, so your
uncle had to share a bed withPatrick.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
That's not cool.
Your uncle had to share a bedwith Patrick.
That's not cool.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Yeah, that attic had a lot of weird stuff in it, to
the point where, even when I wasa kid growing up, all the doors
would be closed.
It was winter, there is no airmoving around, and yet that
attic door, which was only heldtogether by a wooden block that
(32:24):
you would twist up and down, itwould open itself up slowly and
then close itself again, andthat happened all the time.
I hated that attic door.
One night I was sleeping andwhere I slept it was essentially
(32:45):
two beds in the living room.
We were poor.
I mean, we were very, very poor.
The bed that I slept in wasdirectly across from the attic
door and I had this old pictureof my grandfather,
great-great-grandfather, thathung above the bed.
And one night I dreamed thatthat attic door opened up.
(33:07):
Attic door opened up, and thenI heard a voices out.
(33:32):
That memory until afterNovember 2nd.
It's like I can't think of thatday until after it happens, and
then I'll randomly go oh, Imade it through another November
2nd, that's great.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
The year is more important, Grandpa.
Yeah, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
JJ.
We have time for maybe one morestory all right.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Well then, let me finish up with my my biggest
story.
I was living in tokyo itselfand I was working for a japanese
company.
I will never work for anotherjapanese company.
It was very exploitative innature, I guess, from the amount
(34:13):
of work and the amount of hoursthat you had to pump into it.
But anyway, it was around 5 am,I had just finished working for
the night and I crashed out onthe bed.
On the bed and I dreamed of anentity standing on my balcony,
(34:40):
this particular place that wewere staying in.
It was only about 400 squarefeet in size, so it's very small
, but the balcony was about thesame size as the room, and the
balcony overlooked Tokyo tower,so it was a phenomenal location
that, thankfully, I didn't pay$6,000 a month for it, but the
company did.
(35:00):
But anyway, I dreamed that thereis this thing on the outside
and it was banging on the glassto get in and it kept saying one
word over and over again, whichis haeru, haeru, haeru, haeru,
haeru.
The weirdest part about it wasI did not hear it with my ears.
(35:25):
Instead, it was as if the soundwas being pumped directly into
the center of my brain and itcaused physical pain.
It was almost as if there was aloud, screeching Norwegian
death band playing, but it waspumped directly into my brain.
(35:46):
The next thing I know I'm beingawoken by an earthquake alarm
going off on my cell phone, butthat word stuck in my head and
so I rushed to this japaneseenglish dictionary that I had.
I look it up and this is whatconvinced me that this was not
(36:09):
just a dream.
The word means to enter.
This thing was demanding entry,and I know that even if I
wasn't paralyzed in fear, if Ihad opened that balcony door, I
would no longer be in this world.
I would no longer be in thisworld.
(36:40):
The weirdest part is that I livedirectly across a little
intersection from a very largegraveyard and there is a lot of
Japanese superstition around notwalking near graveyards because
you will attract something andit will follow you back home.
I grew up in graveyards.
I grew up mowing graveyards ofvarious family members.
I have spent more time ingraveyard than I can possibly
(37:02):
count.
I still remember burying my ownheadstone marker when I was six
years old.
That was a very interestingintroduction to mortality, let
me put it that way.
I never thought anything aboutit until that night, and I never
walked by that graveyard again,and I kept a very healthy
(37:25):
supply of purified salt pouredinto little bowls by that
balcony door to ward offanything that may be coming from
that direction.
Yeah, it really taught me,though.
That, along with my experiencein Naoki Kahata, convinced me
that even though I love ghoststories, I will never seek them
(37:49):
out in Japan because they areterrifying.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Whoa.
What did it look like in thedream?
It was transparent.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
That's the thing.
I had a vague sense of humanoidshape, but that was it.
And, even weirder, there is aTikTok channel.
There is a TikTok channel whichis ran by a Japanese group that
makes these kind of very shorthorror stories and they're very
(38:20):
well done.
But they had one in which itwas a.
You just see a frosted pane ofvery large glass like a sliding
door and there's a dark figurebehind it and it essentially is
saying the same thing that Iheard.
It says more, but the mainthing is Haidu, haidu, and
(38:47):
they're stupid enough to open itand the consequences are
immediate.
But I saw that and I'm a horrorconnoisseur.
I watch almost nothing buthorror movies.
I saw this and I flung my phoneacross the room because it
reminded me so vividly of thatexperience.
(39:09):
To this day, I still can'twatch that video because it
terrifies the ever-living heckout of me.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
And you did not know what this word hairu meant
before this happened.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
I had no idea.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
no, that's creepy.
Oh man, with all the experience, with dreams that you've had,
what do you think about thenotion of dream premonitions or
precognitive dreams?
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I honestly believe it's real because of the fact
that when I grew up, I wouldhave two distinct types of
dreams.
The regular ones are in veryvibrant color, but I would have
these other ones in which theywere in black and white.
I would have these other onesin which they were in black and
white and I never dream in blackand white and they always
(40:01):
pictured the idealized person ofhow I viewed myself in my head,
in my dreams.
In this idealized version itwas a little boy that had blonde
hair and was thin and Inotoriously am not and was thin
and I notoriously am not.
But whatever happened in thosedreams always came true, and it
(40:25):
may be a week later, it may be amonth later, but it always came
true.
There is one dream in which Ihad that I was running around a
cactus pot, a very large cactuspot, and I fell into it and got
hurt.
And a month later I was over atmy great aunt's house playing
around.
Running around, this giantpotted cactus fell into it, got
(40:45):
hurt not severely, but enough asa kid and suddenly this dream
came back to me as a horriblesense of deja vu.
So I haven't had them since Iwas a kid, but I very much
believe that.
Yeah, dreams are a precursor,and especially when dreams cause
(41:05):
physical pain, that shouldnever happen like ever.
But they do In.
In fact I've read in my dreamsbefore and that's also supposed
to never happen.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
and yes, yeah, becky does the same.
You're not supposed to be yeahI read I punch.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
In fact, one of the ways that I know that I'm
dreaming is it's hard for me touse the gps on my phone.
Like I, I switch letters whenI'm trying to punch things in
the GPS on my phone.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Wow, that is amazing.
Now, it's not a frequentoccurrence for me.
In fact, I only read in ancientlanguages when I dream, I don't
know why.
It's either in Hebrew or Ge'ez,and that's it.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Scream.
Well, JJ, this has been areally amazing conversation.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I have loved every minute of it and I can't thank
y'all enough for this.
I would love to talk to y'allagain.
I really would.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Yeah, I think you have a lot more stories.
We'll definitely be reachingout again.
This was wonderful.
So your podcasts are SouthernDemonology, which is hosted by
ACAST, but you can find it onany podcatcher, and then also
Paranormal Rundown, which youcan also find everywhere.
Do you have specific websitesfor each of these?
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Paranormal Rundown is still coming.
But for Southern Demonology,yeah, it is
southerndemonologycom, and ithas our various social media
platforms, in addition tospecific podcasting platforms,
and then you can also contact methrough it, or you can also
listen to episodes directly fromthe website as well.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Painted loves.
What do you think?
Would you enter the cold tofind the glowing spirit behind
the gate?
Would you enter the suicideforest and embrace the silence?
Either way, we hope you had aspooky day.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Homespun Haints is hosted by Becky Kilimnik and
Diana Doty and produced byHomespun Haints Media LLC.
Editing and music by BeckyKilimnik.
Show notes by Diana Doty.
If you have a ghost story andyou'd like to be considered as a
guest for this podcast, pleasevisit our website at
homespunhaintscom.
(43:16):
Slash submit.
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