March 19, 2025 • 38 mins
What if your understanding of healing and repentance could shift dramatically with a single conversation? Join me, Ana Murby, as I uncover unexpected insights with Beatty Carmichael, a Bible teacher who left a legacy of medical doctors to explore spiritual healing.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Can you believe it?
This has been an amazing season.
Hello everyone, I am Anna Murby, the host of Honest Christian
Conversations.
If you are tuning in for thefirst time, welcome.
You have missed a dynamicseason.
I have had so many guests comeon and talk about various issues
(00:20):
within the Christian faith thatare leading people astray, but
I'm also having my mind blownwith everything that I have
learned.
You are going to want to goback and listen to this whole
season For those who have tunedin from the very beginning of
season four.
Thank you so much for stickingwith it.
I know some of this stuff hasbeen hard to hear.
I'm sure the chosen episodewasn't very exciting for you.
(00:43):
If you don't know what that isbecause you haven't listened or
you chose not to listen, youshould go back and listen.
Perhaps what I have to say maysurprise you, but anyway,
today's guest, beatty Carmichael, is an awesome person, such a
Bible teacher.
You can hear it in the way thathe talks, the questions he asks
(01:04):
and his knowledge of the ideaof healing, deliverance and
repentance Mind blow.
I was in awe of everything hehad to say and I was soaking it
in and it gave me a deep lovefor repentance for the Bible and
has opened my eyes to a new wayto see the Bible.
(01:26):
You are going to really enjoythis episode.
Let's get into it Before theepisode starts.
Make sure you follow the showso you never miss another
episode.
Hello Beatty, thank you so muchfor coming on the podcast to
(01:49):
have this really intense andawesome conversation with me.
Thank you for being willing toanswer the questions I have, but
also to talk about yourministry work, which is really
good.
I've experienced it so I canattest to it.
But thank you so much for comingon.
The podcast Give our audience alittle overview of who you are.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, thank you First , ana, and a little bit about me
is I grew up in a family ofseven generations of medical
doctors and I chose not to gointo medicine.
My dad worked too hard.
He was a critical care surgeonand so he worked an average of
80 to a hundred hour weeks and Ithought that's the way all
(02:31):
doctors were.
So I wanted something a littlebit more time to travel and have
time with family.
So I actually went intobusiness, into marketing, and
for last decade or so we workwith real estate agents here in
the US to help them generatelistings.
It's a little company calledAgent Dominator, but with the
(02:51):
seven generations of medicaldoctors, one of the things that
the Lord brought into my pathwaywas to get back into healing.
My generation's past broughthealing through medicine, the
science of medicine, and what Iwant to share about is healing
through the science of spirituallaws and prayer that we find
(03:13):
from the Bible.
So that's a kind of very shortsynopsis of me.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yes, and it ties in so well with some of the things,
the topics that I've beendiscussing with various guests
throughout season four abouthealing what's right, what's
wrong, how are people doing itright?
How are they doing it wrong?
Are you supposed to be makingmoney off of this?
Should people be saying I havethe gift?
(03:37):
All these different things?
And that is why, when youmessaged me on Podmatch
originally I was very leery, ifI'm going to be honest, of that,
because I grew up not knowinganything about this topic other
than it was very Pentecostal andyou don't need to have any part
of that, because it's not right, don't do it.
(03:59):
And then the other side of thespectrum is well, you're wrong.
You guys are wrong, thinkingthe sign gifts are gone, that
the healing's gone, that Goddoesn't do these things.
And I'm somewhere in the middle, trying to figure out what I
believe, not what I've been toldby my parents or people that I
(04:20):
follow now, who say that thehealing ministries are doing it
wrong.
That's not how it is, all thethings.
I got all this chirping in myear and I'm just trying to
figure out what's truth and Ididn't know what to do when you
messaged me and I'm like I don'tknow, I don't know.
So I told you that and you werevery gracious with your
(04:41):
response and wanted to have aconversation with me.
And that's where I want tostart is that we had a very long
I think it was an hour and ahalf conversation just
discussing my concerns and yougave me an idea of what you do.
And then I had mentioned achronic illness that I have and
(05:01):
you took me through the steps ofwhat you actually do, which
really did transform my life, mymindset for sure.
I felt immediately lighterafter we did the repentance and
everything.
I felt a lot better.
I was riding high for a whileand then I started thinking
(05:23):
again, high for a while, andthen I started thinking again
and I started mulling it over.
I'm saying, okay, so is thisthe good healing ministry?
Is this the right healingministry?
Because you didn't take anycredit for it.
You gave it all to the glory toGod, which I really love that
you do that.
I listen to your podcast.
You're constantly talking aboutGod and putting him first and
(05:46):
center, and that's what I love,because that lets me know that
these people must have it right,because he's the one who gives
us these gifts, he's the one incharge.
So I started mulling it overand I didn't know what to
believe anymore, honestly,because I mean, I thought I was
having an outbreak with mychronic illness a couple of days
(06:10):
ago, but I haven't really hadany issues with it since then.
So if that was it, it lastedvery short compared to what it's
ever been before.
Maybe that wasn't it at all, Idon't even know.
So that in and of itself,really felt like a confirmation
that I need to dig deeper, Ineed to understand more.
(06:32):
So that's why I've been diggingdeeper into your podcast and
that's why I'm having you onduring season four as my last
guest of season four, because Ireally feel like you have
something here that isGod-centered, that is going to
help heal people in more waysthan what they're thinking.
And being someone like me who'sbeen in a legalistic background
(06:55):
or who's just been dealing withall this constant noise of you,
should believe this, you shouldbelieve that, don't believe this
, don't believe that.
And being so overwhelmed withall the information.
You hear all the buzzwords thatpeople say.
Sometimes you say a few of themas well when you're talking
about deliverance or soul tiesand things like that and I just
(07:17):
kind of I don't want to say Icringe, but I guess I kind of
wince a little because I'veheard that those are either new
age or you don't say that orthat's not right.
But when I listen to whatyou're saying, it makes sense, I
understand it from a biblicalperspective and I just I have
got so many thoughts runningthrough my head and I'm going to
(07:39):
let you talk now because youkind of have an idea of my
qualms.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
First off, I'm glad you've been going through my
podcast, and the video versionof it, either on YouTube or on
my app, is even moredemonstrable because you can see
what I'm drawing.
But you are in the same spotwhere I was and where most
people are, and the same spotwhere the early disciples were.
(08:08):
We see the same issue with themIf you go back to Acts.
So the Messiah, all thepromises, all the faith, all the
covenants were given to Israel.
This is what Romans 9 says.
And then Jesus comes through theline of Israel as the Messiah,
and he came only to Israel andhe even said I'm only here for
Israel.
That's why he would turn, likethe woman in I think it was
(08:31):
Sidon, she was a Gentile and hekind of turned her away.
And this is the one where shesaid yes, but Lord, even the
dogs will eat the scraps thatleft, you know, thrown off the
table by the kids, say okay,well, for your faith, I'll, you
know, be healed.
Your daughter will be healed.
And so, when the new covenantcame about, jesus was
resurrected and the apostles anddisciples are now starting to
(08:54):
share the gospel.
They thought it was only forJews, because the Jewish nation
was the chosen nation, the onethat everything had been given
to.
So then, fast forward a littlebit.
Peter is staying at a man'shouse, and from heaven, in his
vision comes a sheet held by two, by up the four corners with a
(09:14):
bunch of unclean animals, and avoice says arise, peter, kill
and eat.
And Peter, being the good Jew,said no way, lord.
I've never eaten anythingunclean and I'm not about to
right now.
And God says what God hascleansed no longer consider
unclean.
That happened three times.
And then some guys come and sayour master sent us to you and
(09:37):
this is now Cornelius.
So Cornelius is a Gentile, he'snot Jew.
It was forbidden for Jews toeven enter the home of a Gentile
.
But Peter goes because God saidto go so fast forward.
Peter goes to Jerusalem and nowthe Christian Jews that are then
steeped in the legalism this isthe important they're steeped
(09:59):
in the legalism of Judaism.
They start to rebuke Peter fordoing what should not happen.
You should not go to theGentiles because the gospel is
only for the Jews.
And what happened is that wastheir level of revelation, and
God accepts that level ofrevelation.
(10:20):
But then Peter says hey, I usedto be just like you were.
I thought it was only for theJews, but then God showed me
differently.
He not only sent me there, butwhile I was preaching at the
Gentiles' home, before I evenfinished preaching, before they
were even baptized, the HolySpirit came on them, just like
he did on us, and they allstarted speaking in tongues.
(10:42):
So who am I to stand in God'sway of what he wants to do?
So now what happened is theyhave new revelation, new
information about what God isdoing, and that changes their
doctrine.
Does this make sense?
So one of the things that weall battle with is believing
what we've been told in conflictof what we might be seeing.
(11:07):
This is what I shared with youwith my church my church, the
one I was in at the time verylegalistic, very much black and
white, just by the Bible exceptit's not by the Bible, it's by
their opinion of what the Bibleis saying and they were a
cessationist church.
Supernatural gifts no longerexisted, and I'll share this
(11:28):
part of the story in just alittle bit, but just to wrap up
this portion of it, as I wasgoing out and praying for people
and God had given me a gift ofhealing, I was seeing people
healed and I was sharing thegospel with them, I went back to
the senior pastor of my megachurch and his first comment was
well, you know, satan can healtoo, and I didn't like that
comment.
So I then went to the nextsenior pastor to share what's
(11:50):
going on and he said well, youknow, satan can heal too.
In other words, they were morewilling to attribute something
good to Satan rather than changetheir doctrine of what they've
been taught, their doctrine ofwhat they've been taught and
that taught me a really big,important lesson, and that is
(12:13):
never believe what man saysabout God's word.
I know that sounds strange, butwatch this.
Jesus says in John 17 thatbecause I'm leaving, I'm going
to send you the helper, and thehelper is going to reveal to you
things that you do not know andis going to instruct you in
these ways.
Why would we turn to man toinstruct us rather than the Holy
Spirit?
Why would we reject what theHoly Spirit is instructing us on
(12:35):
?
Because man said somethingdifferent.
And ever since that moment,with my church, I made a
conscious decision that I wouldno longer believe them at face
value.
In fact, I would no longerbelieve them at face value.
In fact, I would no longerbelieve any man at face value.
I'll listen to what you say,I'll ask you for the scriptures
in which you support it, andthen I'm going to go to the word
(12:55):
and I'm going to research itmyself and see if that's exactly
what it says, because I findthat a lot of things people
teach don't really line up asclearly in the scripture as I
would think they should havebeen.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, no, that, absolutely.
That makes sense and againlines up with what's been going
on in season four, which is readyour Bible, know what it says,
know what God is telling you.
Don't just take what otherpeople are saying and just leave
it at that, because there's somuch out there, so much content
being thrown at you.
There's people who say thatthey can heal, that they can
(13:31):
deliver.
But if you look at the fruit,if you look at what's going on,
do you actually see that?
Do you see real thingshappening?
You know there's other peoplewho are saying these things
can't happen, they're wrong,they're of the devil and
everything.
And you got to find a way tocut through that.
And the only way to do that iswith the Bible, because it is
(13:53):
the only truth in this worldthat we can actually hold on to
with a death grip and trust thatwhat it says is true.
So if everything else isconfusing, just hold on to the
Bible and read it for yourselfand understand what God is
saying in it.
That's the main point of seasonfour.
So I'm glad you enforced that.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
So you know, the interesting thing with that is,
I would like to add one morepart to it.
This is the thing that I havelearned over the years what we
think the Bible says is merelyour opinion, because, watch this
I believe the Bible saidthat—I'm going to get
controversial real quickly—thatwe're supposed to baptize babies
(14:38):
with sprinkled water.
Mm-hmm.
But yet when I researched theBible, every instance of baptism
, from the flood of Noah to theIsraelites going through the Red
Sea, to John the Baptist andJesus and everyone else, is a
submersion.
In fact, the Greek word baptizemeans submersion, it doesn't
mean sprinkle, and the onlyevidence, the only precedence we
(15:02):
have, is that you baptize anadult, someone who is able to
make a decision.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
So a lot of good people.
And I'm not criticizing, I'mnot saying baptizing an infant
and sprinkling is wrong.
I'm saying it's not biblicalbecause it's not in the Bible.
It has to be man's opinion ofwhat the Bible they think is
saying.
I also thought that a gift ofhealing didn't exist until God
gave it to me and I startedseeing people healed.
(15:29):
And I go back to my dad, who'sa doctor, and said man, I just
saw this person with RSD healed.
What is RSD?
And he said, oh, that's aneurological disease, it's very
painful, it's incurable.
If that happened, that's amiracle, right.
And I'm telling dad thesethings and he keeps saying well,
that's a miracle, right.
And I'm telling dad thesethings and he keeps saying well,
that's a miracle.
And then I used to think thatI'll even be more controversial
(15:51):
from some of your other podcaststhat Christians can have demons
.
And then I started getting intodeliverance and everyone I was
working with are Christians,including missionaries that have
been on the field, and Ilearned a lot that they can have
demons.
But it's not what we think andit's not possession, it's not
(16:11):
ownership, but what starts tohappen is the gospel.
The Bible is all about onetheme of message the fall of man
and the restoration of man backto relationship with God.
So it's the gospel message ofsalvation from the fall to being
resurrected again.
It's really not a textbook onthese tangential things that we
(16:36):
like to discuss and like toargue over.
It'll make comments and thenwhat happens is we end up trying
to come to hard doctrinalconclusions from just a few
little snippets of information,and it's not really enough
information to make harddoctrinal conclusions.
It's maybe enough informationto have what I'll call a working
(16:56):
theory.
I think this is it, but let mego test it and see if that
theory holds up.
And until you start to see, likewhat happened with Peter and
the Gentiles, their theory wasgospel is only for the Jews.
Then they see God work with theGentiles and go oh well, maybe
it's also for the Gentiles.
And now, once they put on thoseglasses that it could be for
the Gentiles, they go back toscripture to see what they
(17:19):
missed.
And what they saw was all theseevidences in scripture where
it's talking about all nationsare being saved, not just the
Jewish nation, and they go.
I never saw that.
But what happens is we read thescripture with our predetermined
understanding because we heardsomeone else preach it.
Well, that must be true.
So then we read the scripturewith that in mind, and sometimes
(17:42):
it isn't quite as true as wethink.
It's not that we're completelywrong and it's nothing to be
upset or concerned about, butit's definitely one of those
things that let's don't createdivision within the Christendom,
saying that my belief is betterthan you and you believe this,
so bad on you, because this isevil and all those type of
things.
What I've learned is we need totreat everything with love and
(18:04):
grace and embrace the concept ofmystery.
The more I pressed into thesupernatural of what happens as
walking in Christ, the more Irealize how mysterious
everything is.
So think about this comment.
I think this is Luke 640 or1640.
It's one somewhere like that.
(18:25):
Jesus is saying that thedisciple is not above the
teacher but, when fully trained,will become like the teacher,
and our teacher is Jesus.
So when we become fully trainedand we become like him, what
does that mean?
Raising the dead, healing thesick, casting out demons?
Or does it just mean I'm a niceperson and I don't get too
(18:45):
upset, but none of thesupernatural comes with it?
So we have to reckon with whatdoes it really mean?
And what I've learned is, themore we press in to become like
the teacher, to become fullytrained, so many mysteries of
what I thought were right tendto be not accurate and it opens
up a lot more questions, of evenmore mysteries that you just
(19:07):
kind of press into.
It's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
It's overwhelming and mind blowing, and I think the
reason why it really hits me theway that it does is because in
2020, as everyone else did I hada lot of time on my hands
because there was nothing elsereally to do.
Everyone was locked up.
So I started listening topodcasts, all the different
(19:32):
things, learning about new stuff, learning about medical things.
I don't trust the modernmedical system anymore.
I don't even trust ourgovernment.
I've got my theories there, too, that are coming true.
All the stuff.
I was all over it in differentareas, learning new things, and
(19:53):
I was dead set that thedeliverance ministry was wrong,
the healing ministry was wrong,All that stuff.
The sign gifts are gone.
And then I come Well, you andI've had other guests on and
friends and I'm like, okay, Iget that.
And then we had a pastor at ourchurch who talked about
(20:14):
prophecy in a way that I hadnever heard before, and all this
stuff just started marinatingin my brain.
Then I started feeling stressedbecause during the whole 2020
unwrapping of everything I'veever known, on top of that, I
had a spiritual unwrapping ofthings that I once thought were
good and safe and true, thatwere no longer that way.
(20:36):
With my Christian music, myChristian artists, that I
believed in the Christian booksI read all the different things.
Where I just started,everything was crumbling, people
were falling away from the Lordthat I used to listen.
The different things.
Where I just started,everything was crumbling, people
were falling away from the Lordthat I used to listen to their
music.
I was like what is going onhere?
It's just everything juststarted unraveling, like God
just ripped open all my presentsand said here, now we're going
(20:58):
to rewrap them nice and neat,the way they should be wrapped.
And I'm still wrapping and Istill sometimes he's ripping
them off, going no, no, you'rewrapping it wrong.
I'm a terrible Christmas giftwrapper anyways.
So, but it's just so muchinformation that I'm still
(21:18):
learning and I'm trying toembrace certain things is just
so frustrating, because I've hadall of it.
I've been to Pentecostalchurches before.
That really made me personallyfeel uncomfortable because of
how they did things and I waslike this doesn't feel right,
and I know we shouldn't be basedoff of our feelings with
(21:39):
anything, which is anotherproblem that comes into it is we
get so focused on how we feelabout something.
This made me feel this way, soit has to be right.
But even sin can do that.
Otherwise we wouldn't want tosin, because sin makes you feel
good.
So it's kind of it's just, it'sso much.
But at the same time it'sexciting because God is not done
(22:02):
.
And the more that I'm learning,the more that I'm understanding
and listening to variouspositions, I'm realizing what
you had just said about thatverse in Luke where it was
talking about being like theteacher, fully like the teacher.
If there isn't more to it otherthan just being a good person
and doing the 10 commandments,then I feel like most of us have
(22:27):
arrived.
But we've been told that wedon't arrive until we're in
heaven.
So if that's the case, then wemust have a lot more to do and a
lot more to learn.
And, like you said, there'smysteries, there's things we
don't understand yet.
But if we're willing to open upand understand the Bible, not
according to what we've beentold or programmed, but have an
(22:48):
open mind and an open heart tohear what God is trying to say,
then we can get those mysteries.
It reminds me of another verseand I'm trying to remember what
it is.
I think it's an Old Testamentone where it says I will show
you things Right, not yet.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yes, yes, I've heard that before and I've heard
people say that that's what theyuse for deliverance ministry
and all this stuff.
But that's not right, that'snot the way it is, whatever, but
that verse is in there for areason and I'm thinking about
that now.
It just came to me just now,thinking about this there's
mysteries, there's things wedon't know about God.
(23:27):
He's not an easy, tangible God.
If he were, I don't think he'dbe a very powerful God if we
could pin him down.
So the fact that there's stillso much that we need to learn
lets me know that I serve a morepowerful God than I've been
giving him credit for, and Ithank you for opening my eyes.
(23:48):
I thank all my guests that havebeen on for season four for
giving me different perspectives, different thoughts.
They've challenged me indifferent ways and I appreciate
it so much.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Let me share a real important thing on
interpretation, because all ofthese issues fall back into the
word interpretation.
How do you interpret God's word?
Because God's word is not meantto be studied as a textbook.
Unfortunately, most peoplestudy as a textbook and they
study only the words on the page.
And because the words areconveying spiritual truths and
(24:20):
that there's actually aspiritual dynamic with each word
, then we're not able to lift itoff the page.
Most of us study the Bible aswords printed on an opaque sheet
of paper, which means that theonly words I'm studying are the
words that are on the page andexactly what they mean.
So I pull out a dictionary, Itry to reference it and what's
(24:45):
going back and forth indifferent verses, and then I
think it through and say, okay,how do I unlock whatever this
truth is?
And so now I'm applying humanwisdom to interpret a spiritual
truth.
That human wisdom, god says, isfolly.
What actually happens is, as westart to grow, when you start
to read the Word and you'rereading into the Scriptures,
(25:06):
it's almost as if the words areprinted on.
Start to read the Word andyou're reading into the
Scriptures, it's almost as ifthe words are printed on sheets
of glass and, as you're readingthe words on that page, there's
depths and depths of dimensionaltruth that's even far beyond
there, and the only way touncover those is through
revelation by the Holy Spirit.
This is where Jesus was saying Iwill send a helper who will
reveal to you things that you donot know.
(25:26):
This is where Jesus was sayingI will send a helper who will
reveal to you things that you donot know.
This is what Jeremiah wassaying call to me and I will
answer you and tell you greatand mighty things that you do
not know.
God was saying that throughJeremiah.
So when we interpret the Bible,we have to first look at how
should it be interpreted?
A lot of people interpret itmore symbolically, or possibly
(25:46):
metaphorically, that you know.
When Jesus says, you can say tothis mountain be taken up and
cast in the sea and believe inyour heart, then it'll happen,
we go.
Well, he's not really speakingabout a mountain, he's speaking
about big things in your life.
Okay, so now we start to applyman's wisdom, because what we
say is well, that's impossible,that's ludicrous, you can't
(26:08):
speak to a mountain.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, we're finite creatures.
We can't possibly imagine thatwe can say, hey mountain, go
over there, and then it's justgoing to lift up and go Right.
We've never seen it so right.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So so we say that it has to be speaking figuratively
and not literally.
So I'm leading up to something.
I was coming back from aministry event internationally
and as part of the event was thechief operating officer of
Dallas Theological.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Seminary.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
And there's a big word on interpretation called
hermeneutics, and hermeneuticsis how you interpret the
scriptures and from whatdirection you come at.
And I was asking him this andhe said he made the comment that
.
Did you know that everyprophecy of Jesus was fulfilled
at face value, not figuratively,not symbolically?
(27:00):
So I came back and I Googled itand I searched it and found
that there's somewhere between350 and maybe 430 different
verses of prophecies that Jesusfulfilled, and the difference
between the two is primarily,you may have the same prophetic
message in two different books.
So whether you count as onemessage or two because it's in
(27:22):
two books, or two because it'sin two books.
But what was really interestingis 100% of every single
prophetic message Jesusfulfilled was at face value of
exactly what that passage said.
But the Jews, they read it moresymbolically or just passed over
(27:44):
it because it's like theMessiah is going to suffer
greatly.
Well, no, that's not ourMessiah.
So they then say, well, thismust be a symbolic thing.
And this is what happens a lotof times when we read the Bible
Because we don't understand itor we can't comprehend how
something could be true, werelegate it off to.
Well, that's not a face valueinterpretation.
(28:07):
This is really meant to be moresymbolically.
Other times, when it's a simile, the kingdom of God is like.
So that's not face value,that's a simile.
Sometimes it's definitelymetaphorical or symbolic, like
if you read Revelation, there'sa lot of symbolism there.
If you read Revelation, there'sa lot of symbolism there.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Who doesn't love free ?
I know I do.
That's why I created a freeseven-day devotional for those
who want to go deeper with God.
It's a short devotional full ofencouragement, guidance and
impactful Bible verses relatedto everyday struggles we all go
through.
I know you will love thisdevotional as much as I enjoyed
(28:51):
writing it, and since it'sdigital, you can do it anywhere,
anytime, perfect for the personalways on the go.
Get the free devotional whenyou sign up for my mailing list.
The link is in the show notes.
When you sign up for my mailinglist, the link is in the show
notes.
There's a book that I'm.
I don't know how many timesI've read it and I still yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, it's tough, it is it's tough, and my conviction
, though, is it's actuallyexactly what John saw and
described in the best words thathe could describe, based on his
level of revel.
You know like he may have seentanks, let's say, but he would
call them chariots.
All right, because he didn'tknow what word to use.
Yeah, because his word is notthat important.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, because it clearly that I love that.
You said that, that that was amind blow just now.
Yeah, and there's probablythings going on in that
revelation that he didn'tunderstand because they weren't
things he had seen, he didn'tknow.
So he's going off of what he'sgot.
(29:55):
Like he said he may have saw atank, but he called it a chariot
, because what else are yougoing to call it?
He doesn't know what a tank is.
He has no clue what that is,clue what that is, and obviously
it wasn't a chariot because itdidn't happen yet, so it was
something that is supposed tohappen.
So that's definitely next timeI read Revelation is going to be
(30:16):
helpful for me to realize thathe's going off of what he knows,
just like with us.
I mean, if I were to tell mykids about dial-up, they don't
know what that is.
I do, unfortunately.
I know what dial-up is, butthey're going to be like what's
that?
And I'm going to have toexplain it in the best way that
I can it's slow Internet thatwas plugged into a wall.
They're still not going to knowwhat that is because they don't
(30:37):
know what something pluggedinto a wall is.
So it's like, yeah, so yeah, Ilove that you said that.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
It's a limited language that we're sometimes
seeing.
But when I fast forward intokind of on today's topic a
little bit, as the Lord gave mea gift of healing, I saw people
healed.
Then he moved me intodeliverance.
I started casting out demons.
Then he started to take away mygift and lead me into this
prayer of repentance.
Every time that I didn'tunderstand it I'd go back to the
(31:09):
scripture and then I start tosee patterns in the scripture
that I missed.
Sometimes the patterns wereovert Sin creates sickness overt
, but I missed it all the time.
And then you have confession,which is repentance brings
healing, right.
And once I started doing that Isaid, oh, it's right there.
But you start to, because theBible isn't made, wasn't written
(31:34):
to teach us how to heal or howto, you know, walk in the
spiritual realm instead of theearthly realm, because it wasn't
teaching us how to transportourselves, like happened with
Philip or Elijah.
Then it may mention somethinglike that, but there's no data
there for us to come to any goodconclusions of whether it
really exists today or how to doit.
(31:56):
So a lot of those otherconclusions we have to base on
I'll call it empirical data,which is we test something and
if it happens consistently whenwe do the same thing, then we
have empirical data that theremust be a truth there that, even
though I don't see it clearlyin the Bible, it must exist
because God honors it that way.
And a lot of what I've done inmy work in bringing healing to
(32:18):
people with the prayer offreedom has been trial and error
.
Hey, let's test this and seewhat happens.
I remember I tested one thing.
I think I may have shared thiswith you, but not and.
I'll go back to my full story ifyou want me to.
But when the Lord gave me thegift of healing, I was healing
about a third of the people Iprayed for, but I knew that more
could be done because I keptsaying well, if Jesus prayed for
(32:38):
them, they'd all be healed.
So something's wrong,something's different with me
than the way Jesus would havedone.
And as I pressed in, I hit onething that tripled my results
almost from a third to 90%.
And ever since I kept doingthat, I stayed at about 90%
healing as I go out to Walmartand places like that.
But they're just things that wehave to test and look
(33:00):
empirically at data.
And then you see this and yougo back to the scripture and say
, oh, jesus says it right here.
Right, this type cannot comeout except by prayer and fasting
.
Well, what does that mean?
No one really knows untilthey've actually experienced
something tied to prayer andfasting.
Then they go.
I see the same pattern.
That's probably what he'stalking about.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Go ahead and tell us what you did, because I know the
audience is on edge, excited toknow what it is you do
specifically.
I know I have a few friendsthat were very excited for this
episode, so share what you dowith your ministry right now.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I set people free and see miraculous healings on a
daily basis, with the onlyguidance I do is guide them in
prayer.
Give them my book.
I don't pray for them Purposely.
I don't pray for them because Iwant to teach them that it's
not about me, it's aboutfollowing God's law.
God's law, James 5.16summarizes it.
This is a passage in the bookof James, for those who may not
(33:56):
recognize it yet.
James is speaking to Christiansand he says if any of you are
sick, let him call for theelders and they'll anoint him
and pray over him.
And then it says in James 5.16,and confess your sins and you
shall be healed.
So what I do is I guide peoplethrough what I call strategic
repentance, either ad hoc, likewhat you and I did, okay or a
(34:19):
much more complete version.
That clears up a lot of stuff.
And I'd like to read just onemessage.
I teach in an addictionrecovery center here in Alabama.
It's actually the largest onein the United States.
They house 500 women, over 500women.
And these women.
They got a lot of issues.
(34:42):
If you know anything aboutpeople with addictions, it's not
just a singular issue.
There's all kinds of mentalillness and chronic pain and
addictions and relationshipstruggles and trauma, and I mean
it's just like a cesspool ofjunk.
So this is one of the studentsthat when I was writing my book
(35:06):
I saw.
Anytime I led someone throughthis, I always saw almost
complete results of everything.
But I wanted to test it right.
You'll hear this a lot becauseI'm coming from seven
generations of doctors.
They're doctors or medicalscientists.
I've kind of got that brain ofa scientist.
So I wanted to test and measurethis.
And so I was teaching threeclasses at this addiction
(35:27):
recovery center and I gave thema sheet of paper and said make a
list of every issue that you'redealing with Voices in your
head you know anxiety,depression, bipolar one or two
or both of them and chronic painand arthritis, and all the way
down the list.
And then I said rate each ofthose on a scale of zero to 10,
where you are right now.
And then I gave them theworksheet that's included in the
(35:49):
book and the prayer processthat's also in the book and I
said go through this on your ownand I'll pay you 20 bucks when
you go through it, because Iwanted them to go through it,
and I'll pay you 20 bucks whenyou turn in your information.
I didn't care what they turnedin, I just wanted to make it
through and track this.
So they turned it in about amonth later and I tabulated it
(36:12):
and right, about 87% of thoseladies saw everything on their
list go to zero.
Everything disappeared out oftheir life.
A few people had a fewremaining things and they were
down to only one-third theintensity on average than before
the prayer.
So what this demonstrates istwo things Not only does the
prayer work consistently, butthe only thing they did is they
(36:36):
repented of sins, of strategicrepentance of sins that the Lord
brought to their mind invarious categories, and then
they strategically repented ofit, like breaking unholy soul
ties.
Oh, that's dangerous.
You don't do that, that's not-.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I know I keep hearing it's new age Right right, it's
new age.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Well, you know what New age recognizes certain
spiritual laws that God created.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yes, they're just perverting it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah, it is perverting it, but the fact that
they hey new age it isperverting it.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
But the fact that they hey New Age believes that
the sun's going to come uptomorrow, does that mean it's
evil?
No, it just means that theyobserve the same thing I do,
right, so when I got through andtested it with excitement,
ready to hear more of whatBeatty has to say, unfortunately
, you're going to have to waituntil next week because this was
a very intense and longconversation and I thought it
best to split it up so that youhave time to mull through what
we talked about.
Thank you for listening.
(37:45):
Please go back and listen toall the other episodes, because
this is coming to an end seasonfour so don't forget that.
Stay tuned for the conclusionto this exciting and dynamic
episode next week.
Can you believe it?
This has been an amazing season.
Hello everyone, I am Anna Murby, the host of Honest Christian
Conversations.
If you are tuning in for thefirst time, welcome.
You have missed a dynamicseason.
I have had so many guests comeon and talk about various issues
(00:20):
within the Christian faith thatare leading people astray, but
I'm also having my mind blownwith everything that I have
learned.
You are going to want to goback and listen to this whole
season For those who have tunedin from the very beginning of
season four.
Thank you so much for stickingwith it.
I know some of this stuff hasbeen hard to hear.
I'm sure the chosen episodewasn't very exciting for you.
(00:43):
If you don't know what that isbecause you haven't listened or
you chose not to listen, youshould go back and listen.
Perhaps what I have to say maysurprise you, but anyway,
today's guest, beatty Carmichael, is an awesome person, such a
Bible teacher.
You can hear it in the way thathe talks, the questions he asks
(01:04):
and his knowledge of the ideaof healing, deliverance and
repentance Mind blow.
I was in awe of everything hehad to say and I was soaking it
in and it gave me a deep lovefor repentance for the Bible and
has opened my eyes to a new wayto see the Bible.
(01:26):
You are going to really enjoythis episode.
Let's get into it Before theepisode starts.
Make sure you follow the showso you never miss another
episode.
Hello Beatty, thank you so muchfor coming on the podcast to
(01:49):
have this really intense andawesome conversation with me.
Thank you for being willing toanswer the questions I have, but
also to talk about yourministry work, which is really
good.
I've experienced it so I canattest to it.
But thank you so much for comingon.
The podcast Give our audience alittle overview of who you are.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, thank you First , ana, and a little bit about me
is I grew up in a family ofseven generations of medical
doctors and I chose not to gointo medicine.
My dad worked too hard.
He was a critical care surgeonand so he worked an average of
80 to a hundred hour weeks and Ithought that's the way all
(02:31):
doctors were.
So I wanted something a littlebit more time to travel and have
time with family.
So I actually went intobusiness, into marketing, and
for last decade or so we workwith real estate agents here in
the US to help them generatelistings.
It's a little company calledAgent Dominator, but with the
(02:51):
seven generations of medicaldoctors, one of the things that
the Lord brought into my pathwaywas to get back into healing.
My generation's past broughthealing through medicine, the
science of medicine, and what Iwant to share about is healing
through the science of spirituallaws and prayer that we find
(03:13):
from the Bible.
So that's a kind of very shortsynopsis of me.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yes, and it ties in so well with some of the things,
the topics that I've beendiscussing with various guests
throughout season four abouthealing what's right, what's
wrong, how are people doing itright?
How are they doing it wrong?
Are you supposed to be makingmoney off of this?
Should people be saying I havethe gift?
(03:37):
All these different things?
And that is why, when youmessaged me on Podmatch
originally I was very leery, ifI'm going to be honest, of that,
because I grew up not knowinganything about this topic other
than it was very Pentecostal andyou don't need to have any part
of that, because it's not right, don't do it.
(03:59):
And then the other side of thespectrum is well, you're wrong.
You guys are wrong, thinkingthe sign gifts are gone, that
the healing's gone, that Goddoesn't do these things.
And I'm somewhere in the middle, trying to figure out what I
believe, not what I've been toldby my parents or people that I
(04:20):
follow now, who say that thehealing ministries are doing it
wrong.
That's not how it is, all thethings.
I got all this chirping in myear and I'm just trying to
figure out what's truth and Ididn't know what to do when you
messaged me and I'm like I don'tknow, I don't know.
So I told you that and you werevery gracious with your
(04:41):
response and wanted to have aconversation with me.
And that's where I want tostart is that we had a very long
I think it was an hour and ahalf conversation just
discussing my concerns and yougave me an idea of what you do.
And then I had mentioned achronic illness that I have and
(05:01):
you took me through the steps ofwhat you actually do, which
really did transform my life, mymindset for sure.
I felt immediately lighterafter we did the repentance and
everything.
I felt a lot better.
I was riding high for a whileand then I started thinking
(05:23):
again, high for a while, andthen I started thinking again
and I started mulling it over.
I'm saying, okay, so is thisthe good healing ministry?
Is this the right healingministry?
Because you didn't take anycredit for it.
You gave it all to the glory toGod, which I really love that
you do that.
I listen to your podcast.
You're constantly talking aboutGod and putting him first and
(05:46):
center, and that's what I love,because that lets me know that
these people must have it right,because he's the one who gives
us these gifts, he's the one incharge.
So I started mulling it overand I didn't know what to
believe anymore, honestly,because I mean, I thought I was
having an outbreak with mychronic illness a couple of days
(06:10):
ago, but I haven't really hadany issues with it since then.
So if that was it, it lastedvery short compared to what it's
ever been before.
Maybe that wasn't it at all, Idon't even know.
So that in and of itself,really felt like a confirmation
that I need to dig deeper, Ineed to understand more.
(06:32):
So that's why I've been diggingdeeper into your podcast and
that's why I'm having you onduring season four as my last
guest of season four, because Ireally feel like you have
something here that isGod-centered, that is going to
help heal people in more waysthan what they're thinking.
And being someone like me who'sbeen in a legalistic background
(06:55):
or who's just been dealing withall this constant noise of you,
should believe this, you shouldbelieve that, don't believe this
, don't believe that.
And being so overwhelmed withall the information.
You hear all the buzzwords thatpeople say.
Sometimes you say a few of themas well when you're talking
about deliverance or soul tiesand things like that and I just
(07:17):
kind of I don't want to say Icringe, but I guess I kind of
wince a little because I'veheard that those are either new
age or you don't say that orthat's not right.
But when I listen to whatyou're saying, it makes sense, I
understand it from a biblicalperspective and I just I have
got so many thoughts runningthrough my head and I'm going to
(07:39):
let you talk now because youkind of have an idea of my
qualms.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
First off, I'm glad you've been going through my
podcast, and the video versionof it, either on YouTube or on
my app, is even moredemonstrable because you can see
what I'm drawing.
But you are in the same spotwhere I was and where most
people are, and the same spotwhere the early disciples were.
(08:08):
We see the same issue with themIf you go back to Acts.
So the Messiah, all thepromises, all the faith, all the
covenants were given to Israel.
This is what Romans 9 says.
And then Jesus comes through theline of Israel as the Messiah,
and he came only to Israel andhe even said I'm only here for
Israel.
That's why he would turn, likethe woman in I think it was
(08:31):
Sidon, she was a Gentile and hekind of turned her away.
And this is the one where shesaid yes, but Lord, even the
dogs will eat the scraps thatleft, you know, thrown off the
table by the kids, say okay,well, for your faith, I'll, you
know, be healed.
Your daughter will be healed.
And so, when the new covenantcame about, jesus was
resurrected and the apostles anddisciples are now starting to
(08:54):
share the gospel.
They thought it was only forJews, because the Jewish nation
was the chosen nation, the onethat everything had been given
to.
So then, fast forward a littlebit.
Peter is staying at a man'shouse, and from heaven, in his
vision comes a sheet held by two, by up the four corners with a
(09:14):
bunch of unclean animals, and avoice says arise, peter, kill
and eat.
And Peter, being the good Jew,said no way, lord.
I've never eaten anythingunclean and I'm not about to
right now.
And God says what God hascleansed no longer consider
unclean.
That happened three times.
And then some guys come and sayour master sent us to you and
(09:37):
this is now Cornelius.
So Cornelius is a Gentile, he'snot Jew.
It was forbidden for Jews toeven enter the home of a Gentile
.
But Peter goes because God saidto go so fast forward.
Peter goes to Jerusalem and nowthe Christian Jews that are then
steeped in the legalism this isthe important they're steeped
(09:59):
in the legalism of Judaism.
They start to rebuke Peter fordoing what should not happen.
You should not go to theGentiles because the gospel is
only for the Jews.
And what happened is that wastheir level of revelation, and
God accepts that level ofrevelation.
(10:20):
But then Peter says hey, I usedto be just like you were.
I thought it was only for theJews, but then God showed me
differently.
He not only sent me there, butwhile I was preaching at the
Gentiles' home, before I evenfinished preaching, before they
were even baptized, the HolySpirit came on them, just like
he did on us, and they allstarted speaking in tongues.
(10:42):
So who am I to stand in God'sway of what he wants to do?
So now what happened is theyhave new revelation, new
information about what God isdoing, and that changes their
doctrine.
Does this make sense?
So one of the things that weall battle with is believing
what we've been told in conflictof what we might be seeing.
(11:07):
This is what I shared with youwith my church my church, the
one I was in at the time verylegalistic, very much black and
white, just by the Bible exceptit's not by the Bible, it's by
their opinion of what the Bibleis saying and they were a
cessationist church.
Supernatural gifts no longerexisted, and I'll share this
(11:28):
part of the story in just alittle bit, but just to wrap up
this portion of it, as I wasgoing out and praying for people
and God had given me a gift ofhealing, I was seeing people
healed and I was sharing thegospel with them, I went back to
the senior pastor of my megachurch and his first comment was
well, you know, satan can healtoo, and I didn't like that
comment.
So I then went to the nextsenior pastor to share what's
(11:50):
going on and he said well, youknow, satan can heal too.
In other words, they were morewilling to attribute something
good to Satan rather than changetheir doctrine of what they've
been taught, their doctrine ofwhat they've been taught and
that taught me a really big,important lesson, and that is
(12:13):
never believe what man saysabout God's word.
I know that sounds strange, butwatch this.
Jesus says in John 17 thatbecause I'm leaving, I'm going
to send you the helper, and thehelper is going to reveal to you
things that you do not know andis going to instruct you in
these ways.
Why would we turn to man toinstruct us rather than the Holy
Spirit?
Why would we reject what theHoly Spirit is instructing us on
(12:35):
?
Because man said somethingdifferent.
And ever since that moment,with my church, I made a
conscious decision that I wouldno longer believe them at face
value.
In fact, I would no longerbelieve them at face value.
In fact, I would no longerbelieve any man at face value.
I'll listen to what you say,I'll ask you for the scriptures
in which you support it, andthen I'm going to go to the word
(12:55):
and I'm going to research itmyself and see if that's exactly
what it says, because I findthat a lot of things people
teach don't really line up asclearly in the scripture as I
would think they should havebeen.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, no, that, absolutely.
That makes sense and againlines up with what's been going
on in season four, which is readyour Bible, know what it says,
know what God is telling you.
Don't just take what otherpeople are saying and just leave
it at that, because there's somuch out there, so much content
being thrown at you.
There's people who say thatthey can heal, that they can
(13:31):
deliver.
But if you look at the fruit,if you look at what's going on,
do you actually see that?
Do you see real thingshappening?
You know there's other peoplewho are saying these things
can't happen, they're wrong,they're of the devil and
everything.
And you got to find a way tocut through that.
And the only way to do that iswith the Bible, because it is
(13:53):
the only truth in this worldthat we can actually hold on to
with a death grip and trust thatwhat it says is true.
So if everything else isconfusing, just hold on to the
Bible and read it for yourselfand understand what God is
saying in it.
That's the main point of seasonfour.
So I'm glad you enforced that.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
So you know, the interesting thing with that is,
I would like to add one morepart to it.
This is the thing that I havelearned over the years what we
think the Bible says is merelyour opinion, because, watch this
I believe the Bible saidthat—I'm going to get
controversial real quickly—thatwe're supposed to baptize babies
(14:38):
with sprinkled water.
Mm-hmm.
But yet when I researched theBible, every instance of baptism
, from the flood of Noah to theIsraelites going through the Red
Sea, to John the Baptist andJesus and everyone else, is a
submersion.
In fact, the Greek word baptizemeans submersion, it doesn't
mean sprinkle, and the onlyevidence, the only precedence we
(15:02):
have, is that you baptize anadult, someone who is able to
make a decision.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
So a lot of good people.
And I'm not criticizing, I'mnot saying baptizing an infant
and sprinkling is wrong.
I'm saying it's not biblicalbecause it's not in the Bible.
It has to be man's opinion ofwhat the Bible they think is
saying.
I also thought that a gift ofhealing didn't exist until God
gave it to me and I startedseeing people healed.
(15:29):
And I go back to my dad, who'sa doctor, and said man, I just
saw this person with RSD healed.
What is RSD?
And he said, oh, that's aneurological disease, it's very
painful, it's incurable.
If that happened, that's amiracle, right.
And I'm telling dad thesethings and he keeps saying well,
that's a miracle, right.
And I'm telling dad thesethings and he keeps saying well,
that's a miracle.
And then I used to think thatI'll even be more controversial
(15:51):
from some of your other podcaststhat Christians can have demons
.
And then I started getting intodeliverance and everyone I was
working with are Christians,including missionaries that have
been on the field, and Ilearned a lot that they can have
demons.
But it's not what we think andit's not possession, it's not
(16:11):
ownership, but what starts tohappen is the gospel.
The Bible is all about onetheme of message the fall of man
and the restoration of man backto relationship with God.
So it's the gospel message ofsalvation from the fall to being
resurrected again.
It's really not a textbook onthese tangential things that we
(16:36):
like to discuss and like toargue over.
It'll make comments and thenwhat happens is we end up trying
to come to hard doctrinalconclusions from just a few
little snippets of information,and it's not really enough
information to make harddoctrinal conclusions.
It's maybe enough informationto have what I'll call a working
(16:56):
theory.
I think this is it, but let mego test it and see if that
theory holds up.
And until you start to see, likewhat happened with Peter and
the Gentiles, their theory wasgospel is only for the Jews.
Then they see God work with theGentiles and go oh well, maybe
it's also for the Gentiles.
And now, once they put on thoseglasses that it could be for
the Gentiles, they go back toscripture to see what they
(17:19):
missed.
And what they saw was all theseevidences in scripture where
it's talking about all nationsare being saved, not just the
Jewish nation, and they go.
I never saw that.
But what happens is we read thescripture with our predetermined
understanding because we heardsomeone else preach it.
Well, that must be true.
So then we read the scripturewith that in mind, and sometimes
(17:42):
it isn't quite as true as wethink.
It's not that we're completelywrong and it's nothing to be
upset or concerned about, butit's definitely one of those
things that let's don't createdivision within the Christendom,
saying that my belief is betterthan you and you believe this,
so bad on you, because this isevil and all those type of
things.
What I've learned is we need totreat everything with love and
(18:04):
grace and embrace the concept ofmystery.
The more I pressed into thesupernatural of what happens as
walking in Christ, the more Irealize how mysterious
everything is.
So think about this comment.
I think this is Luke 640 or1640.
It's one somewhere like that.
(18:25):
Jesus is saying that thedisciple is not above the
teacher but, when fully trained,will become like the teacher,
and our teacher is Jesus.
So when we become fully trainedand we become like him, what
does that mean?
Raising the dead, healing thesick, casting out demons?
Or does it just mean I'm a niceperson and I don't get too
(18:45):
upset, but none of thesupernatural comes with it?
So we have to reckon with whatdoes it really mean?
And what I've learned is, themore we press in to become like
the teacher, to become fullytrained, so many mysteries of
what I thought were right tendto be not accurate and it opens
up a lot more questions, of evenmore mysteries that you just
(19:07):
kind of press into.
It's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
It's overwhelming and mind blowing, and I think the
reason why it really hits me theway that it does is because in
2020, as everyone else did I hada lot of time on my hands
because there was nothing elsereally to do.
Everyone was locked up.
So I started listening topodcasts, all the different
(19:32):
things, learning about new stuff, learning about medical things.
I don't trust the modernmedical system anymore.
I don't even trust ourgovernment.
I've got my theories there, too, that are coming true.
All the stuff.
I was all over it in differentareas, learning new things, and
(19:53):
I was dead set that thedeliverance ministry was wrong,
the healing ministry was wrong,All that stuff.
The sign gifts are gone.
And then I come Well, you andI've had other guests on and
friends and I'm like, okay, Iget that.
And then we had a pastor at ourchurch who talked about
(20:14):
prophecy in a way that I hadnever heard before, and all this
stuff just started marinatingin my brain.
Then I started feeling stressedbecause during the whole 2020
unwrapping of everything I'veever known, on top of that, I
had a spiritual unwrapping ofthings that I once thought were
good and safe and true, thatwere no longer that way.
(20:36):
With my Christian music, myChristian artists, that I
believed in the Christian booksI read all the different things.
Where I just started,everything was crumbling, people
were falling away from the Lordthat I used to listen.
The different things.
Where I just started,everything was crumbling, people
were falling away from the Lordthat I used to listen to their
music.
I was like what is going onhere?
It's just everything juststarted unraveling, like God
just ripped open all my presentsand said here, now we're going
(20:58):
to rewrap them nice and neat,the way they should be wrapped.
And I'm still wrapping and Istill sometimes he's ripping
them off, going no, no, you'rewrapping it wrong.
I'm a terrible Christmas giftwrapper anyways.
So, but it's just so muchinformation that I'm still
(21:18):
learning and I'm trying toembrace certain things is just
so frustrating, because I've hadall of it.
I've been to Pentecostalchurches before.
That really made me personallyfeel uncomfortable because of
how they did things and I waslike this doesn't feel right,
and I know we shouldn't be basedoff of our feelings with
(21:39):
anything, which is anotherproblem that comes into it is we
get so focused on how we feelabout something.
This made me feel this way, soit has to be right.
But even sin can do that.
Otherwise we wouldn't want tosin, because sin makes you feel
good.
So it's kind of it's just, it'sso much.
But at the same time it'sexciting because God is not done
(22:02):
.
And the more that I'm learning,the more that I'm understanding
and listening to variouspositions, I'm realizing what
you had just said about thatverse in Luke where it was
talking about being like theteacher, fully like the teacher.
If there isn't more to it otherthan just being a good person
and doing the 10 commandments,then I feel like most of us have
(22:27):
arrived.
But we've been told that wedon't arrive until we're in
heaven.
So if that's the case, then wemust have a lot more to do and a
lot more to learn.
And, like you said, there'smysteries, there's things we
don't understand yet.
But if we're willing to open upand understand the Bible, not
according to what we've beentold or programmed, but have an
(22:48):
open mind and an open heart tohear what God is trying to say,
then we can get those mysteries.
It reminds me of another verseand I'm trying to remember what
it is.
I think it's an Old Testamentone where it says I will show
you things Right, not yet.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yes, yes, I've heard that before and I've heard
people say that that's what theyuse for deliverance ministry
and all this stuff.
But that's not right, that'snot the way it is, whatever, but
that verse is in there for areason and I'm thinking about
that now.
It just came to me just now,thinking about this there's
mysteries, there's things wedon't know about God.
(23:27):
He's not an easy, tangible God.
If he were, I don't think he'dbe a very powerful God if we
could pin him down.
So the fact that there's stillso much that we need to learn
lets me know that I serve a morepowerful God than I've been
giving him credit for, and Ithank you for opening my eyes.
(23:48):
I thank all my guests that havebeen on for season four for
giving me different perspectives, different thoughts.
They've challenged me indifferent ways and I appreciate
it so much.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Let me share a real important thing on
interpretation, because all ofthese issues fall back into the
word interpretation.
How do you interpret God's word?
Because God's word is not meantto be studied as a textbook.
Unfortunately, most peoplestudy as a textbook and they
study only the words on the page.
And because the words areconveying spiritual truths and
(24:20):
that there's actually aspiritual dynamic with each word
, then we're not able to lift itoff the page.
Most of us study the Bible aswords printed on an opaque sheet
of paper, which means that theonly words I'm studying are the
words that are on the page andexactly what they mean.
So I pull out a dictionary, Itry to reference it and what's
(24:45):
going back and forth indifferent verses, and then I
think it through and say, okay,how do I unlock whatever this
truth is?
And so now I'm applying humanwisdom to interpret a spiritual
truth.
That human wisdom, god says, isfolly.
What actually happens is, as westart to grow, when you start
to read the Word and you'rereading into the Scriptures,
(25:06):
it's almost as if the words areprinted on.
Start to read the Word andyou're reading into the
Scriptures, it's almost as ifthe words are printed on sheets
of glass and, as you're readingthe words on that page, there's
depths and depths of dimensionaltruth that's even far beyond
there, and the only way touncover those is through
revelation by the Holy Spirit.
This is where Jesus was saying Iwill send a helper who will
reveal to you things that you donot know.
(25:26):
This is where Jesus was sayingI will send a helper who will
reveal to you things that you donot know.
This is what Jeremiah wassaying call to me and I will
answer you and tell you greatand mighty things that you do
not know.
God was saying that throughJeremiah.
So when we interpret the Bible,we have to first look at how
should it be interpreted?
A lot of people interpret itmore symbolically, or possibly
(25:46):
metaphorically, that you know.
When Jesus says, you can say tothis mountain be taken up and
cast in the sea and believe inyour heart, then it'll happen,
we go.
Well, he's not really speakingabout a mountain, he's speaking
about big things in your life.
Okay, so now we start to applyman's wisdom, because what we
say is well, that's impossible,that's ludicrous, you can't
(26:08):
speak to a mountain.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, we're finite creatures.
We can't possibly imagine thatwe can say, hey mountain, go
over there, and then it's justgoing to lift up and go Right.
We've never seen it so right.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So so we say that it has to be speaking figuratively
and not literally.
So I'm leading up to something.
I was coming back from aministry event internationally
and as part of the event was thechief operating officer of
Dallas Theological.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Seminary.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
And there's a big word on interpretation called
hermeneutics, and hermeneuticsis how you interpret the
scriptures and from whatdirection you come at.
And I was asking him this andhe said he made the comment that
.
Did you know that everyprophecy of Jesus was fulfilled
at face value, not figuratively,not symbolically?
(27:00):
So I came back and I Googled itand I searched it and found
that there's somewhere between350 and maybe 430 different
verses of prophecies that Jesusfulfilled, and the difference
between the two is primarily,you may have the same prophetic
message in two different books.
So whether you count as onemessage or two because it's in
(27:22):
two books, or two because it'sin two books.
But what was really interestingis 100% of every single
prophetic message Jesusfulfilled was at face value of
exactly what that passage said.
But the Jews, they read it moresymbolically or just passed over
(27:44):
it because it's like theMessiah is going to suffer
greatly.
Well, no, that's not ourMessiah.
So they then say, well, thismust be a symbolic thing.
And this is what happens a lotof times when we read the Bible
Because we don't understand itor we can't comprehend how
something could be true, werelegate it off to.
Well, that's not a face valueinterpretation.
(28:07):
This is really meant to be moresymbolically.
Other times, when it's a simile, the kingdom of God is like.
So that's not face value,that's a simile.
Sometimes it's definitelymetaphorical or symbolic, like
if you read Revelation, there'sa lot of symbolism there.
If you read Revelation, there'sa lot of symbolism there.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Who doesn't love free ?
I know I do.
That's why I created a freeseven-day devotional for those
who want to go deeper with God.
It's a short devotional full ofencouragement, guidance and
impactful Bible verses relatedto everyday struggles we all go
through.
I know you will love thisdevotional as much as I enjoyed
(28:51):
writing it, and since it'sdigital, you can do it anywhere,
anytime, perfect for the personalways on the go.
Get the free devotional whenyou sign up for my mailing list.
The link is in the show notes.
When you sign up for my mailinglist, the link is in the show
notes.
There's a book that I'm.
I don't know how many timesI've read it and I still yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yeah, it's tough, it is it's tough, and my conviction
, though, is it's actuallyexactly what John saw and
described in the best words thathe could describe, based on his
level of revel.
You know like he may have seentanks, let's say, but he would
call them chariots.
All right, because he didn'tknow what word to use.
Yeah, because his word is notthat important.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, because it clearly that I love that.
You said that, that that was amind blow just now.
Yeah, and there's probablythings going on in that
revelation that he didn'tunderstand because they weren't
things he had seen, he didn'tknow.
So he's going off of what he'sgot.
(29:55):
Like he said he may have saw atank, but he called it a chariot
, because what else are yougoing to call it?
He doesn't know what a tank is.
He has no clue what that is,clue what that is, and obviously
it wasn't a chariot because itdidn't happen yet, so it was
something that is supposed tohappen.
So that's definitely next timeI read Revelation is going to be
(30:16):
helpful for me to realize thathe's going off of what he knows,
just like with us.
I mean, if I were to tell mykids about dial-up, they don't
know what that is.
I do, unfortunately.
I know what dial-up is, butthey're going to be like what's
that?
And I'm going to have toexplain it in the best way that
I can it's slow Internet thatwas plugged into a wall.
They're still not going to knowwhat that is because they don't
(30:37):
know what something pluggedinto a wall is.
So it's like, yeah, so yeah, Ilove that you said that.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
It's a limited language that we're sometimes
seeing.
But when I fast forward intokind of on today's topic a
little bit, as the Lord gave mea gift of healing, I saw people
healed.
Then he moved me intodeliverance.
I started casting out demons.
Then he started to take away mygift and lead me into this
prayer of repentance.
Every time that I didn'tunderstand it I'd go back to the
(31:09):
scripture and then I start tosee patterns in the scripture
that I missed.
Sometimes the patterns wereovert Sin creates sickness overt
, but I missed it all the time.
And then you have confession,which is repentance brings
healing, right.
And once I started doing that Isaid, oh, it's right there.
But you start to, because theBible isn't made, wasn't written
(31:34):
to teach us how to heal or howto, you know, walk in the
spiritual realm instead of theearthly realm, because it wasn't
teaching us how to transportourselves, like happened with
Philip or Elijah.
Then it may mention somethinglike that, but there's no data
there for us to come to any goodconclusions of whether it
really exists today or how to doit.
(31:56):
So a lot of those otherconclusions we have to base on
I'll call it empirical data,which is we test something and
if it happens consistently whenwe do the same thing, then we
have empirical data that theremust be a truth there that, even
though I don't see it clearlyin the Bible, it must exist
because God honors it that way.
And a lot of what I've done inmy work in bringing healing to
(32:18):
people with the prayer offreedom has been trial and error
.
Hey, let's test this and seewhat happens.
I remember I tested one thing.
I think I may have shared thiswith you, but not and.
I'll go back to my full story ifyou want me to.
But when the Lord gave me thegift of healing, I was healing
about a third of the people Iprayed for, but I knew that more
could be done because I keptsaying well, if Jesus prayed for
(32:38):
them, they'd all be healed.
So something's wrong,something's different with me
than the way Jesus would havedone.
And as I pressed in, I hit onething that tripled my results
almost from a third to 90%.
And ever since I kept doingthat, I stayed at about 90%
healing as I go out to Walmartand places like that.
But they're just things that wehave to test and look
(33:00):
empirically at data.
And then you see this and yougo back to the scripture and say
, oh, jesus says it right here.
Right, this type cannot comeout except by prayer and fasting
.
Well, what does that mean?
No one really knows untilthey've actually experienced
something tied to prayer andfasting.
Then they go.
I see the same pattern.
That's probably what he'stalking about.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Go ahead and tell us what you did, because I know the
audience is on edge, excited toknow what it is you do
specifically.
I know I have a few friendsthat were very excited for this
episode, so share what you dowith your ministry right now.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I set people free and see miraculous healings on a
daily basis, with the onlyguidance I do is guide them in
prayer.
Give them my book.
I don't pray for them Purposely.
I don't pray for them because Iwant to teach them that it's
not about me, it's aboutfollowing God's law.
God's law, James 5.16summarizes it.
This is a passage in the bookof James, for those who may not
(33:56):
recognize it yet.
James is speaking to Christiansand he says if any of you are
sick, let him call for theelders and they'll anoint him
and pray over him.
And then it says in James 5.16,and confess your sins and you
shall be healed.
So what I do is I guide peoplethrough what I call strategic
repentance, either ad hoc, likewhat you and I did, okay or a
(34:19):
much more complete version.
That clears up a lot of stuff.
And I'd like to read just onemessage.
I teach in an addictionrecovery center here in Alabama.
It's actually the largest onein the United States.
They house 500 women, over 500women.
And these women.
They got a lot of issues.
(34:42):
If you know anything aboutpeople with addictions, it's not
just a singular issue.
There's all kinds of mentalillness and chronic pain and
addictions and relationshipstruggles and trauma, and I mean
it's just like a cesspool ofjunk.
So this is one of the studentsthat when I was writing my book
(35:06):
I saw.
Anytime I led someone throughthis, I always saw almost
complete results of everything.
But I wanted to test it right.
You'll hear this a lot becauseI'm coming from seven
generations of doctors.
They're doctors or medicalscientists.
I've kind of got that brain ofa scientist.
So I wanted to test and measurethis.
And so I was teaching threeclasses at this addiction
(35:27):
recovery center and I gave thema sheet of paper and said make a
list of every issue that you'redealing with Voices in your
head you know anxiety,depression, bipolar one or two
or both of them and chronic painand arthritis, and all the way
down the list.
And then I said rate each ofthose on a scale of zero to 10,
where you are right now.
And then I gave them theworksheet that's included in the
(35:49):
book and the prayer processthat's also in the book and I
said go through this on your ownand I'll pay you 20 bucks when
you go through it, because Iwanted them to go through it,
and I'll pay you 20 bucks whenyou turn in your information.
I didn't care what they turnedin, I just wanted to make it
through and track this.
So they turned it in about amonth later and I tabulated it
(36:12):
and right, about 87% of thoseladies saw everything on their
list go to zero.
Everything disappeared out oftheir life.
A few people had a fewremaining things and they were
down to only one-third theintensity on average than before
the prayer.
So what this demonstrates istwo things Not only does the
prayer work consistently, butthe only thing they did is they
(36:36):
repented of sins, of strategicrepentance of sins that the Lord
brought to their mind invarious categories, and then
they strategically repented ofit, like breaking unholy soul
ties.
Oh, that's dangerous.
You don't do that, that's not-.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I know I keep hearing it's new age Right right, it's
new age.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Well, you know what New age recognizes certain
spiritual laws that God created.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Yes, they're just perverting it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah, it is perverting it, but the fact that
they hey new age it isperverting it.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
But the fact that they hey New Age believes that
the sun's going to come uptomorrow, does that mean it's
evil?
No, it just means that theyobserve the same thing I do,
right, so when I got through andtested it with excitement,
ready to hear more of whatBeatty has to say, unfortunately
, you're going to have to waituntil next week because this was
a very intense and longconversation and I thought it
best to split it up so that youhave time to mull through what
we talked about.
Thank you for listening.
(37:45):
Please go back and listen toall the other episodes, because
this is coming to an end seasonfour so don't forget that.
Stay tuned for the conclusionto this exciting and dynamic
episode next week.
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