February 12, 2025 • 23 mins
Can dreams predict the future? Or are they merely the result of our subconscious mind? Join me and Johnny T from Refuge Freedom Stories as we tackle these questions and more, unraveling the fascinating world of dreams and visions within a spiritual framework.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome my new and returning friends.
Today we will conclude mywonderful conversation with
Johnny T from Refuge FreedomStories about spiritual gifts,
dreams and visions.
Please listen to last week'sepisode before this one so you
are caught up with where theconversation starts today.
Lastly, if you are enjoyingthis season's content, leave a
(00:22):
review for the podcast, eitheron my website with the link in
the show notes, or on whateverplatform you are listening on.
The more the algorithm knowsyou like the show, the more it
will be shared with others whoalso enjoy the content.
Now let's get to it Before theepisode starts.
(00:51):
Make sure you follow the showso you never miss another
episode.
So let's transition a little bitto a different subject that I
also don't know a whole bunch on, but it kind of has to do with
the whole idea of prophecy, Iguess, and that would be visions
and dreams.
Do you believe that our dreamshave the abilities to what am I
(01:13):
trying to ask?
Do our dreams mean things?
I mean, sometimes you'll havethis weird dream.
You're like what was that?
And maybe it means something,maybe it doesn't.
Is it something worth pursuingto figure out what that means?
Or is it just maybe I had aweird meal the night before, or
(01:34):
dreams and visions.
Are those things that youbelieve still happen, and how
are we supposed to test those tomake sure that they're lining
up spiritually and scripturally?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So, yes, I do believe that those happen.
As we started off talking aboutActs 2, right, it says your
young men shall see visions andyour old men shall dream dreams.
And because I'm old now, I getthe dream dreams.
But I think in my personalexperience, like I've had a
number of dreams over the pastcouple of years and they have
(02:08):
been largely apocalyptic interms of being chased by like
government authority figures,Like what I mean, Things like
that right times, like drivingwith like a trailer in the
backwoods trying to escape fromsome following herd of you know,
(02:29):
army type people or whatever itmight be.
But they all seem to be andthat's just my personal
experience.
But they all seem to beconsistent with the same message
.
And I also have to.
I think it's really importantthat, if we do have a dream, one
thing that I should reallylearn to do is have like a
little journal beside my bed,because I wake up and I go man,
(02:49):
I got to write that down.
I'll do it in the morning, andthen when I wake up in the
morning, I've forgotten what itwas.
It was very sparse, you knowwhat.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I mean, yeah, you always feel like this is so
crazy, there's no way I'm going.
So you wake up in the morning.
You forgot it Exactly Like what.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, exactly, but you know that you've had some
kind of day.
And so I think, first off, it'sreally important that we should
catalog them, because I think ifyou're cataloging them, then
you're going to, you couldpotentially see a pattern, and
if a pattern was developing,then there would be a reason for
it.
Like you know, they've said inthe past, if you read something
(03:26):
God says three times, then youknow that he's really trying to
emphasize a point, right?
So if you're having dreams andyou've cataloged them and you
can go back and look at themagain, if there's a theme there,
then what I would do is I wouldgo and search the scriptures
and say, okay, lord, if this isof you, because it says test the
spirits, right, if this is ofyou, then let's go find it in
(03:48):
the word.
Let's go find where the wordbacks it up and as you're
looking through those scriptures, god can bring to light
specific details in thosescriptures that would align with
or confirm, or whatever itmight be, that that actually was
a dream from the Lord.
And then, once that takes placeand you have confirmation, well
(04:09):
then the onus is on you to say,okay, lord, what am I supposed
to do with that?
Is that something that I haveto write?
Is that something I have topodcast about.
Is that something that I'msupposed to go and tell somebody
?
So we really need to seek Himabout that.
But I do believe we're going tosee, you know, people having
(04:30):
dreams more and more all thetime.
We know that over in some ofthe arab nations and the muslim
nations that there are peoplehaving, there are muslims having
visions and dreams of jesus andthey're getting saved yeah,
I've heard that on some of themissionary podcasts I listen to.
Yeah, so there's an example ofwhere God's Word saying that
these people will see visions,or people will see visions and
(04:51):
dreams, it's happening.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
It's happening today, and my husband's had not to cut
you off.
My husband's had a coupledreams where the day before a
natural event had happened, hehad a dream about it.
Where the day before a naturalevent had happened, he had a
dream about it Not specificallythat area, it was almost not
vague, but vague enough where itwas like he had a dream about a
really devastating tornado.
And then the next morning I waslistening to some news and they
(05:16):
were talking about a tornadothat hit somewhere and that
happened twice in a week orwhatever.
I was like, oh, did you hearthat?
It was just weird.
And he tends to have someinteresting dreams and he's
always asking me about it.
I'm like I don't know anythingabout that enough to speak into
(05:37):
it and we've gotten intoarguments about it.
Because I grew up in the youjust believe it and you shut up.
That's just how I felt.
You don't question it.
If it's in the Bible, believeit whatever.
You don't need to find out whyyou need to believe it.
You just do.
And in my opinion, these thingsweren't things that happened,
so don't even question that,they just don't.
(05:59):
So we would always get into afight about it.
Because he grew up atheist andhe's only been a believer for
about 10 plus years and he'sasking me all these questions
and I'm still trying to figurethings out and unravel what I
thought was correct and may notbe correct.
So we'll get into littlebattles about it and I'm just
like I don't know.
Perhaps you should ask someoneelse, because I don't want to
(06:21):
argue about this, and that'sjust one of them.
But yeah, I don't want to argueabout this and that's just one
of them.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
But yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off, no, no,
that's fine, like I would sayfor your husband's sake, if he's
a person who regularly hasdreams, and get him to start
cataloging them, he's not aboutthat.
Yeah, and then when there'ssomething that really sticks out
to him or whatever, god haspeople in his body with these
different gifts and callings fora reason, and if your husband
(06:49):
says you know what, like I'mreally seeing something here, I
need to talk to somebody who iskind of operating in that gift.
He could pray about it and Godwill open those doors.
I believe that our God is bigenough that he can open the
doors and lead him to someonewho can help interpret the dream
.
Obviously, they would have to bea believer.
You'd have to believe all thekind of stuff.
Are you not going to go to amedium or a card reader or
(07:10):
whatever type of thing as muchas they would like to do that
for you?
So, yeah, and as far as visionsgo, I know people who have had
visions, and still do today, andthey were to give them, almost
as you said with your husband'sdream, like a premonition of
what was going to happen in acertain situation, or somebody
(07:33):
getting saved or something likethat, like they would see this
vision of this person and theirlife changing, or them kneeling
and praying or something, whenthey weren't anywhere close to
being saved.
So that kind of stuff and yeah,I believe it happens 100%.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Are visions like dreams, like you're sleeping
when it happens.
Or is that something thathappens sitting up?
Because I know there's been acouple times in the Bible where
it's mentioned visions andthey're just kind of sitting
there and it almost feels I wantto say new age only because,
(08:08):
again, I don't know enough aboutany of this stuff but visions
to me feels like you sit in thatposition, you got your hands on
the own kind of thing.
Obviously Christians shouldn'tbe doing that kind of stuff,
because yoga is bad, whatever.
But, and how does it mean in theBible when it talks about
visions or trances?
(08:29):
I've seen it translated likethat too, and those things just
scream new age, and I've heard alot of people warn against
visions, trances and all thatbecause of that.
Maybe they're interchanging theword, but what is the
difference, I guess, between avision and a trance?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Or is the Bible just using that vision and a trance
or is the Bible just using thatsimultaneously?
Well, don't forget that thetimes you know, like a couple of
examples come to mind when Paulhad his vision and when Peter,
like when Paul was on the roadto Damascus, you know, and God
said why are you kicking againstthe bricks?
Like, what do you have againstme, right?
(09:06):
And Peter, up on the roof ofthe house he was at, and he saw
the sheep come down with all thedifferent animals, and God said
rise, kill and eat.
You know, for specific purposes, right?
And it's not that they wereexpecting them, it's not that
they were doing anything topredicate them, they weren't
saying okay, I'm going to go sitin my closet today and today's
(09:27):
vision day, I'm going to go sitin my closet today and today's
vision day, I'm going to sitthere and I'm going to sit here
until God gives me a vision.
God doesn't do that.
God will give you a vision forone for a purpose and two, to
enlighten you to something, andit'll be, in my opinion,
unexpected.
I've never had a vision myself.
My wife has, but I never have.
(09:47):
And you can't orchestrate avision with God.
There's no five steps to avision myself.
My wife has, but I never have,and you can't orchestrate a
vision with.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
God, there's no five steps to a vision with God book
out there that's going to tellyou how to do it, so there's
probably a book out there, butthere's not.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well, maybe there is, yeah, maybe there is, yeah, but
it certainly wouldn't be a God,because I don't believe God
works that way.
God gives you a vision at aspecific time, for a specific
reason, for a specific purpose,and it's for you to do something
about it, and it would betotally unexpected.
You can't orchestrate it, youcan't manipulate it, you can't
(10:19):
twist God's arm in any way,shape or form.
So they do happen.
I know people that have hadthem and they're still.
It's going to happen.
God says in his word it's goingto happen.
God says in his word it's goingto happen.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So how do you know it's?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
happening.
The whole thing about tranceand all that other stuff, that's
all New Age terminology.
Yeah, that's what I've heardand those are orchestrated
things, Like you said peoplesitting down in a certain
position with their fingers in acertain way, or humming and
hawing in a certain way, orburning certain smells.
So those are all new age andoccult practices.
God does not work through those.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
So how does someone know if they're having a vision?
Like you said, they're notorchestrated, you can't make
them happen.
They just happen when God wantsthem to happen.
But how do you know if you'vehad one?
Because I know there's a thingthat's called deja vu and I've
had that happen many times andI'm pretty sure that's not at
(11:14):
all a vision, but it just itfeels so real, like I've been
there, done that and I know alot of new age people have
mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
A lot of people will say, oh, that's because you've
had a second life.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I don't believe in that stuff.
It's like no, that doesn't makesense.
Why would I do the same thingtwice?
That doesn't make any sense tome.
But that couldn't really be avision, because it's literally
happening at the same time asyou're experiencing it.
If that makes sense, that's nota vision, right.
That's just a weird awesomething.
I guess that our brains do.
I don't know how to explain it.
Like a glitch in the vision,right, that's just a weird
awesome thing.
I guess that our brains do.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I don't know how to explain it Like a glitch in the
matrix right.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, no, yeah no.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
A vision would be certainly and I'm no theologian
okay, we should get that.
I should have said that right inthe start.
I'm no theologian, I'm not aBible scholar in any way, shape
or form, but before.
But a vision would be somethingthat God, as I said, has a
purpose for at a specific time,and it would be outside yourself
(12:17):
and it wouldn't be anythingthat you may have experienced
before, like maybe doingsomething or whatever it would
be.
If I believe and like I said,I've never had a vision myself,
but I believe that if I had avision from God, it would change
me dramatically.
It would change my outlook onsomething.
My heart would just be ignitedwith a passion for God to do
(12:40):
something.
It would be used to throw meforward into something that God
has a purpose for who doesn'tlove free?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I know I do.
That's why I created a freeseven-day devotional for those
who want to go deeper with God.
It's a short devotional full ofencouragement, guidance and
impactful Bible verses relatedto everyday struggles we all go
through.
I know you will love thisdevotional as much as I enjoyed
writing it and since it'sdigital, you can do it anywhere
(13:19):
anytime, perfect for the personalways on the go.
Get the free devotional whenyou sign up for my mailing list.
The link is in the show notes.
So I have a question.
And then, well before I get tomy question, while you were
talking, it made me think ofwell, I find it interesting
because you did mention the roadto Damascus and I think I knew
(13:45):
that that was a vision, but Idon't.
For some reason it just feltlike a revelation.
When you said I, I was like ohyeah, that is a vision, because
nobody else saw it.
They heard thunder.
I believe that was it.
They didn't actually see it andthat did dramatically change
his life.
So my question is part of mystory of how I became freed from
(14:08):
pornography was in a reallyunlikely way, at a pornography
convention.
I hadn't seen pornography forlike two years before I went on
this mission trip.
I was nervous.
I didn't know how it was goingto go.
I hadn't seen anything higherthan PG in two years.
(14:28):
I had been praying.
They wanted me to get deeper inthe ministry and I was excited
for that.
Pumped, we went in and as soonas I got in there I just had
this overwhelming broken heart.
I mean, there's everything.
Was there?
Video, people doing video stuff, nakedness, everything was in
your face.
But all I saw was how brokenthese people were, where they
(14:52):
were going.
If God forbid, somethinghappened at that moment to take
us all out.
I just saw the deeper picture,the evil.
I saw it all and I was crying.
I said I see why we're here.
I see the need and I wasinstantly freed from that
addiction.
So my question is would that beconsidered a vision, or is that
(15:17):
just God's awesome powerworking?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Personally, I would think that would be more God
just revealing his heart to you,like the brokenness of his
heart, for how far people wouldlet themselves go down the
rabbit hole.
And I'm not saying it likeunless you physically like,
unless you saw something youknow which would quote like
(15:44):
vision.
You know the definition ofvision because we see with our
eyes.
But then if you're lookingaround the room and all you can
see is brokenness and all youcan see is depravity and the
need for Christ and things likethat, maybe it was a vision, but
just overwhelmingly with thetheme of God's broken heart for
these people and the need to seethem get saved.
(16:05):
But that's just an opinion.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
No, that makes sense.
Well, we have one more subjectto talk about.
It's kind of it's being out inthe open now.
It's being talked about a lotmore and I don't know really how
long it's actually been goingon, but it sounds very freaky to
me and that's grave soaking.
And I know you didn't reallyknow enough about it until I had
(16:29):
mentioned it to you, and Istill even don't know a whole
bunch about it.
But what I do know it soundsvery woo-woo and very new agey
and definitely not of God at all.
I know the NAR, the NewApostolic Reformation, is really
pumping this out there, but whydon't you share your thoughts
(16:50):
on it after you did someresearch about it?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, so, as you said , I'd never heard of it before
and so I just went to Google andlooked it up and read a few
things.
And so basically, it's the actof lying across a physical grave
of a deceased preacher orevangelist for the purpose of
pulling out the power of theHoly Spirit or the anointing
(17:14):
that that person had on themwhile they were alive.
Okay, now, I don't believe,from what I've read, that's
supported anywhere in the Bible,and they give the example of
where Elisha had passed away andsomeone had died and they threw
him onto Elisha and the mancame back to life.
So that's their premise, thatthey can get this anointing.
(17:37):
But the Bible tells us that wecame from dust and we're going
to return to dust.
There's no remaining spirit inthat dust.
Our soul goes to be with God.
There's dust.
There's no spirit there,there's no anointing there.
There's nothing there, right?
And so to me I agree with youit definitely seems like a new
(18:00):
age practice that's crept into.
Then we talked earlier aboutdeceptive spirits in the church.
We talked about false teachers,false doctrine and the devil's
going to work overtime as hisdays.
He knows his days are numbered.
He doesn't know when they'regoing to end.
But he knows their number, hecan see it, and so he's going to
work overtime to try and pullpeople away with itching ears to
hear what they want to hear.
(18:20):
Right and you would have to goback to what we talked about as
well was what's the purpose thatsomeone wants to walk with an
anointing?
Why would somebody want to dothat?
Like, do they have a truecalling from God or is it just
that they're trying to raisethemselves up to a place of
preeminence for whatever?
But in Mark it says that God isnot the God of the dead, but
(18:47):
he's the God of the living.
So when we die it says thatwe're going to go and we're
going to go stand before Godimmediately and the operating of
the power and the anointingthat God puts upon people like
apostles, prophets, teachers andso on, that's for them when
they're alive.
I don't see any way that thatis part of, or should be part of
(19:10):
, christianity or Christiantheology in any way, shape or
form.
I mean like I was raised in anenvironment of the occult when I
was growing up and to me itjust sounds just like that.
So I don't see any place forthat in the teaching that's
going on in the church and ifsomebody's listening today and
you're teaching that you need torepent because God has not
(19:32):
created that in any way, shapeor form.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, and it feels a lot like idol worship too,
because their power came fromthe Holy Spirit.
They weren't born with it.
So for you to think thatthey're going to die with it and
you can get it somehow, italmost feels like the man in the
Bible who was trying to pay toget what the apostles had.
It's like no, that's not how itworks.
(19:56):
God will give it to you if youneed it, but he's not going to.
Just you can't pay for it.
You can't lay on and expect itto come out.
It reminds me of osmosis.
I don't remember when I learnedabout it, but people started
putting their studying booksunder their pillows and it's
like, oh, I'm going to learnthrough osmosis and I always
(20:16):
thought they were joking, butsome people actually believed it
.
I'm like I don't think that'show it works.
And that's not how it works toget anointed or whatever.
You get anointed if God wantsyou to and that's it, full stop.
There's nothing else, no otherways.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, I agree 100% with that.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
That is just heresy.
They believe this is allpossible, whether they don't
believe.
I just pray that they wouldhave open hearts that want to
seek the truth from the Bible.
Read the Bible.
That is the theme of thisseason.
Read the Bible, know what itsays, know what God is telling
you and stick to that.
And if you don't knoweverything about everything,
that is okay.
There's some things that youshould know because they matter
(21:21):
for your salvation, but thenthere's other things that are
just I think they're calledtertiary things that just don't
matter to your salvation, to thepoint where you have to rack
your brain to know if it's trueor not.
I mean, I think you'll knowwhen God is actually speaking to
you in a vision, a dream, aprophecy.
(21:42):
You will know these things.
So you don't have to knoweverything and you don't have to
stress about finding out Ifthis is not something that
really matters to you.
Just make sure your heart isopen for God to use in this
matter, should he ever want touse you for it.
(22:03):
But you don't have to sit therelearning about it.
It's not necessary.
Some people want to know, somedon't, and that's okay.
Just stay close to God, stay inthe Word that is most important
.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, absolutely, and just seek Him every day with an
open and honest heart and betotally transparent with God.
He knows everything anyway, sowe can't, we'll never surprise
Him.
So if you just continually goto God and just say, lord, you
know what do you want to show metoday, and just be open to Him,
and it may come from any numberof sources or any number of
things that you read or whatever, but God always finds a way to
(22:39):
shine his light into our livesand into our understanding of
getting closer to him.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Amen, I agree.
Well, thank you again, johnny,for coming on, and I hope you
have a good day.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
You too.
It's been an absolute pleasure,god bless.
Welcome my new and returning friends.
Today we will conclude mywonderful conversation with
Johnny T from Refuge FreedomStories about spiritual gifts,
dreams and visions.
Please listen to last week'sepisode before this one so you
are caught up with where theconversation starts today.
Lastly, if you are enjoyingthis season's content, leave a
(00:22):
review for the podcast, eitheron my website with the link in
the show notes, or on whateverplatform you are listening on.
The more the algorithm knowsyou like the show, the more it
will be shared with others whoalso enjoy the content.
Now let's get to it Before theepisode starts.
(00:51):
Make sure you follow the showso you never miss another
episode.
So let's transition a little bitto a different subject that I
also don't know a whole bunch on, but it kind of has to do with
the whole idea of prophecy, Iguess, and that would be visions
and dreams.
Do you believe that our dreamshave the abilities to what am I
(01:13):
trying to ask?
Do our dreams mean things?
I mean, sometimes you'll havethis weird dream.
You're like what was that?
And maybe it means something,maybe it doesn't.
Is it something worth pursuingto figure out what that means?
Or is it just maybe I had aweird meal the night before, or
(01:34):
dreams and visions.
Are those things that youbelieve still happen, and how
are we supposed to test those tomake sure that they're lining
up spiritually and scripturally?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
So, yes, I do believe that those happen.
As we started off talking aboutActs 2, right, it says your
young men shall see visions andyour old men shall dream dreams.
And because I'm old now, I getthe dream dreams.
But I think in my personalexperience, like I've had a
number of dreams over the pastcouple of years and they have
(02:08):
been largely apocalyptic interms of being chased by like
government authority figures,Like what I mean, Things like
that right times, like drivingwith like a trailer in the
backwoods trying to escape fromsome following herd of you know,
(02:29):
army type people or whatever itmight be.
But they all seem to be andthat's just my personal
experience.
But they all seem to beconsistent with the same message
.
And I also have to.
I think it's really importantthat, if we do have a dream, one
thing that I should reallylearn to do is have like a
little journal beside my bed,because I wake up and I go man,
(02:49):
I got to write that down.
I'll do it in the morning, andthen when I wake up in the
morning, I've forgotten what itwas.
It was very sparse, you knowwhat.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
I mean, yeah, you always feel like this is so
crazy, there's no way I'm going.
So you wake up in the morning.
You forgot it Exactly Like what.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, exactly, but you know that you've had some
kind of day.
And so I think, first off, it'sreally important that we should
catalog them, because I think ifyou're cataloging them, then
you're going to, you couldpotentially see a pattern, and
if a pattern was developing,then there would be a reason for
it.
Like you know, they've said inthe past, if you read something
(03:26):
God says three times, then youknow that he's really trying to
emphasize a point, right?
So if you're having dreams andyou've cataloged them and you
can go back and look at themagain, if there's a theme there,
then what I would do is I wouldgo and search the scriptures
and say, okay, lord, if this isof you, because it says test the
spirits, right, if this is ofyou, then let's go find it in
(03:48):
the word.
Let's go find where the wordbacks it up and as you're
looking through those scriptures, god can bring to light
specific details in thosescriptures that would align with
or confirm, or whatever itmight be, that that actually was
a dream from the Lord.
And then, once that takes placeand you have confirmation, well
(04:09):
then the onus is on you to say,okay, lord, what am I supposed
to do with that?
Is that something that I haveto write?
Is that something I have topodcast about.
Is that something that I'msupposed to go and tell somebody
?
So we really need to seek Himabout that.
But I do believe we're going tosee, you know, people having
(04:30):
dreams more and more all thetime.
We know that over in some ofthe arab nations and the muslim
nations that there are peoplehaving, there are muslims having
visions and dreams of jesus andthey're getting saved yeah,
I've heard that on some of themissionary podcasts I listen to.
Yeah, so there's an example ofwhere God's Word saying that
these people will see visions,or people will see visions and
(04:51):
dreams, it's happening.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
It's happening today, and my husband's had not to cut
you off.
My husband's had a coupledreams where the day before a
natural event had happened, hehad a dream about it.
Where the day before a naturalevent had happened, he had a
dream about it Not specificallythat area, it was almost not
vague, but vague enough where itwas like he had a dream about a
really devastating tornado.
And then the next morning I waslistening to some news and they
(05:16):
were talking about a tornadothat hit somewhere and that
happened twice in a week orwhatever.
I was like, oh, did you hearthat?
It was just weird.
And he tends to have someinteresting dreams and he's
always asking me about it.
I'm like I don't know anythingabout that enough to speak into
(05:37):
it and we've gotten intoarguments about it.
Because I grew up in the youjust believe it and you shut up.
That's just how I felt.
You don't question it.
If it's in the Bible, believeit whatever.
You don't need to find out whyyou need to believe it.
You just do.
And in my opinion, these thingsweren't things that happened,
so don't even question that,they just don't.
(05:59):
So we would always get into afight about it.
Because he grew up atheist andhe's only been a believer for
about 10 plus years and he'sasking me all these questions
and I'm still trying to figurethings out and unravel what I
thought was correct and may notbe correct.
So we'll get into littlebattles about it and I'm just
like I don't know.
Perhaps you should ask someoneelse, because I don't want to
(06:21):
argue about this, and that'sjust one of them.
But yeah, I don't want to argueabout this and that's just one
of them.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
But yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off, no, no,
that's fine, like I would sayfor your husband's sake, if he's
a person who regularly hasdreams, and get him to start
cataloging them, he's not aboutthat.
Yeah, and then when there'ssomething that really sticks out
to him or whatever, god haspeople in his body with these
different gifts and callings fora reason, and if your husband
(06:49):
says you know what, like I'mreally seeing something here, I
need to talk to somebody who iskind of operating in that gift.
He could pray about it and Godwill open those doors.
I believe that our God is bigenough that he can open the
doors and lead him to someonewho can help interpret the dream
.
Obviously, they would have to bea believer.
You'd have to believe all thekind of stuff.
Are you not going to go to amedium or a card reader or
(07:10):
whatever type of thing as muchas they would like to do that
for you?
So, yeah, and as far as visionsgo, I know people who have had
visions, and still do today, andthey were to give them, almost
as you said with your husband'sdream, like a premonition of
what was going to happen in acertain situation, or somebody
(07:33):
getting saved or something likethat, like they would see this
vision of this person and theirlife changing, or them kneeling
and praying or something, whenthey weren't anywhere close to
being saved.
So that kind of stuff and yeah,I believe it happens 100%.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Are visions like dreams, like you're sleeping
when it happens.
Or is that something thathappens sitting up?
Because I know there's been acouple times in the Bible where
it's mentioned visions andthey're just kind of sitting
there and it almost feels I wantto say new age only because,
(08:08):
again, I don't know enough aboutany of this stuff but visions
to me feels like you sit in thatposition, you got your hands on
the own kind of thing.
Obviously Christians shouldn'tbe doing that kind of stuff,
because yoga is bad, whatever.
But, and how does it mean in theBible when it talks about
visions or trances?
(08:29):
I've seen it translated likethat too, and those things just
scream new age, and I've heard alot of people warn against
visions, trances and all thatbecause of that.
Maybe they're interchanging theword, but what is the
difference, I guess, between avision and a trance?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Or is the Bible just using that vision and a trance
or is the Bible just using thatsimultaneously?
Well, don't forget that thetimes you know, like a couple of
examples come to mind when Paulhad his vision and when Peter,
like when Paul was on the roadto Damascus, you know, and God
said why are you kicking againstthe bricks?
Like, what do you have againstme, right?
(09:06):
And Peter, up on the roof ofthe house he was at, and he saw
the sheep come down with all thedifferent animals, and God said
rise, kill and eat.
You know, for specific purposes, right?
And it's not that they wereexpecting them, it's not that
they were doing anything topredicate them, they weren't
saying okay, I'm going to go sitin my closet today and today's
(09:27):
vision day, I'm going to go sitin my closet today and today's
vision day, I'm going to sitthere and I'm going to sit here
until God gives me a vision.
God doesn't do that.
God will give you a vision forone for a purpose and two, to
enlighten you to something, andit'll be, in my opinion,
unexpected.
I've never had a vision myself.
My wife has, but I never have.
(09:47):
And you can't orchestrate avision with God.
There's no five steps to avision myself.
My wife has, but I never have,and you can't orchestrate a
vision with.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
God, there's no five steps to a vision with God book
out there that's going to tellyou how to do it, so there's
probably a book out there, butthere's not.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Well, maybe there is, yeah, maybe there is, yeah, but
it certainly wouldn't be a God,because I don't believe God
works that way.
God gives you a vision at aspecific time, for a specific
reason, for a specific purpose,and it's for you to do something
about it, and it would betotally unexpected.
You can't orchestrate it, youcan't manipulate it, you can't
(10:19):
twist God's arm in any way,shape or form.
So they do happen.
I know people that have hadthem and they're still.
It's going to happen.
God says in his word it's goingto happen.
God says in his word it's goingto happen.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
So how do you know it's?
Speaker 2 (10:32):
happening.
The whole thing about tranceand all that other stuff, that's
all New Age terminology.
Yeah, that's what I've heardand those are orchestrated
things, Like you said peoplesitting down in a certain
position with their fingers in acertain way, or humming and
hawing in a certain way, orburning certain smells.
So those are all new age andoccult practices.
God does not work through those.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
So how does someone know if they're having a vision?
Like you said, they're notorchestrated, you can't make
them happen.
They just happen when God wantsthem to happen.
But how do you know if you'vehad one?
Because I know there's a thingthat's called deja vu and I've
had that happen many times andI'm pretty sure that's not at
(11:14):
all a vision, but it just itfeels so real, like I've been
there, done that and I know alot of new age people have
mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
A lot of people will say, oh, that's because you've
had a second life.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I don't believe in that stuff.
It's like no, that doesn't makesense.
Why would I do the same thingtwice?
That doesn't make any sense tome.
But that couldn't really be avision, because it's literally
happening at the same time asyou're experiencing it.
If that makes sense, that's nota vision, right.
That's just a weird awesomething.
I guess that our brains do.
I don't know how to explain it.
Like a glitch in the vision,right, that's just a weird
awesome thing.
I guess that our brains do.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I don't know how to explain it Like a glitch in the
matrix right.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, no, yeah no.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
A vision would be certainly and I'm no theologian
okay, we should get that.
I should have said that right inthe start.
I'm no theologian, I'm not aBible scholar in any way, shape
or form, but before.
But a vision would be somethingthat God, as I said, has a
purpose for at a specific time,and it would be outside yourself
(12:17):
and it wouldn't be anythingthat you may have experienced
before, like maybe doingsomething or whatever it would
be.
If I believe and like I said,I've never had a vision myself,
but I believe that if I had avision from God, it would change
me dramatically.
It would change my outlook onsomething.
My heart would just be ignitedwith a passion for God to do
(12:40):
something.
It would be used to throw meforward into something that God
has a purpose for who doesn'tlove free?
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I know I do.
That's why I created a freeseven-day devotional for those
who want to go deeper with God.
It's a short devotional full ofencouragement, guidance and
impactful Bible verses relatedto everyday struggles we all go
through.
I know you will love thisdevotional as much as I enjoyed
writing it and since it'sdigital, you can do it anywhere
(13:19):
anytime, perfect for the personalways on the go.
Get the free devotional whenyou sign up for my mailing list.
The link is in the show notes.
So I have a question.
And then, well before I get tomy question, while you were
talking, it made me think ofwell, I find it interesting
because you did mention the roadto Damascus and I think I knew
(13:45):
that that was a vision, but Idon't.
For some reason it just feltlike a revelation.
When you said I, I was like ohyeah, that is a vision, because
nobody else saw it.
They heard thunder.
I believe that was it.
They didn't actually see it andthat did dramatically change
his life.
So my question is part of mystory of how I became freed from
(14:08):
pornography was in a reallyunlikely way, at a pornography
convention.
I hadn't seen pornography forlike two years before I went on
this mission trip.
I was nervous.
I didn't know how it was goingto go.
I hadn't seen anything higherthan PG in two years.
(14:28):
I had been praying.
They wanted me to get deeper inthe ministry and I was excited
for that.
Pumped, we went in and as soonas I got in there I just had
this overwhelming broken heart.
I mean, there's everything.
Was there?
Video, people doing video stuff, nakedness, everything was in
your face.
But all I saw was how brokenthese people were, where they
(14:52):
were going.
If God forbid, somethinghappened at that moment to take
us all out.
I just saw the deeper picture,the evil.
I saw it all and I was crying.
I said I see why we're here.
I see the need and I wasinstantly freed from that
addiction.
So my question is would that beconsidered a vision, or is that
(15:17):
just God's awesome powerworking?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Personally, I would think that would be more God
just revealing his heart to you,like the brokenness of his
heart, for how far people wouldlet themselves go down the
rabbit hole.
And I'm not saying it likeunless you physically like,
unless you saw something youknow which would quote like
(15:44):
vision.
You know the definition ofvision because we see with our
eyes.
But then if you're lookingaround the room and all you can
see is brokenness and all youcan see is depravity and the
need for Christ and things likethat, maybe it was a vision, but
just overwhelmingly with thetheme of God's broken heart for
these people and the need to seethem get saved.
(16:05):
But that's just an opinion.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
No, that makes sense.
Well, we have one more subjectto talk about.
It's kind of it's being out inthe open now.
It's being talked about a lotmore and I don't know really how
long it's actually been goingon, but it sounds very freaky to
me and that's grave soaking.
And I know you didn't reallyknow enough about it until I had
(16:29):
mentioned it to you, and Istill even don't know a whole
bunch about it.
But what I do know it soundsvery woo-woo and very new agey
and definitely not of God at all.
I know the NAR, the NewApostolic Reformation, is really
pumping this out there, but whydon't you share your thoughts
(16:50):
on it after you did someresearch about it?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, so, as you said , I'd never heard of it before
and so I just went to Google andlooked it up and read a few
things.
And so basically, it's the actof lying across a physical grave
of a deceased preacher orevangelist for the purpose of
pulling out the power of theHoly Spirit or the anointing
(17:14):
that that person had on themwhile they were alive.
Okay, now, I don't believe,from what I've read, that's
supported anywhere in the Bible,and they give the example of
where Elisha had passed away andsomeone had died and they threw
him onto Elisha and the mancame back to life.
So that's their premise, thatthey can get this anointing.
(17:37):
But the Bible tells us that wecame from dust and we're going
to return to dust.
There's no remaining spirit inthat dust.
Our soul goes to be with God.
There's dust.
There's no spirit there,there's no anointing there.
There's nothing there, right?
And so to me I agree with youit definitely seems like a new
(18:00):
age practice that's crept into.
Then we talked earlier aboutdeceptive spirits in the church.
We talked about false teachers,false doctrine and the devil's
going to work overtime as hisdays.
He knows his days are numbered.
He doesn't know when they'regoing to end.
But he knows their number, hecan see it, and so he's going to
work overtime to try and pullpeople away with itching ears to
hear what they want to hear.
(18:20):
Right and you would have to goback to what we talked about as
well was what's the purpose thatsomeone wants to walk with an
anointing?
Why would somebody want to dothat?
Like, do they have a truecalling from God or is it just
that they're trying to raisethemselves up to a place of
preeminence for whatever?
But in Mark it says that God isnot the God of the dead, but
(18:47):
he's the God of the living.
So when we die it says thatwe're going to go and we're
going to go stand before Godimmediately and the operating of
the power and the anointingthat God puts upon people like
apostles, prophets, teachers andso on, that's for them when
they're alive.
I don't see any way that thatis part of, or should be part of
(19:10):
, christianity or Christiantheology in any way, shape or
form.
I mean like I was raised in anenvironment of the occult when I
was growing up and to me itjust sounds just like that.
So I don't see any place forthat in the teaching that's
going on in the church and ifsomebody's listening today and
you're teaching that you need torepent because God has not
(19:32):
created that in any way, shapeor form.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah, and it feels a lot like idol worship too,
because their power came fromthe Holy Spirit.
They weren't born with it.
So for you to think thatthey're going to die with it and
you can get it somehow, italmost feels like the man in the
Bible who was trying to pay toget what the apostles had.
It's like no, that's not how itworks.
(19:56):
God will give it to you if youneed it, but he's not going to.
Just you can't pay for it.
You can't lay on and expect itto come out.
It reminds me of osmosis.
I don't remember when I learnedabout it, but people started
putting their studying booksunder their pillows and it's
like, oh, I'm going to learnthrough osmosis and I always
(20:16):
thought they were joking, butsome people actually believed it
.
I'm like I don't think that'show it works.
And that's not how it works toget anointed or whatever.
You get anointed if God wantsyou to and that's it, full stop.
There's nothing else, no otherways.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, I agree 100% with that.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
That is just heresy.
They believe this is allpossible, whether they don't
believe.
I just pray that they wouldhave open hearts that want to
seek the truth from the Bible.
Read the Bible.
That is the theme of thisseason.
Read the Bible, know what itsays, know what God is telling
you and stick to that.
And if you don't knoweverything about everything,
that is okay.
There's some things that youshould know because they matter
(21:21):
for your salvation, but thenthere's other things that are
just I think they're calledtertiary things that just don't
matter to your salvation, to thepoint where you have to rack
your brain to know if it's trueor not.
I mean, I think you'll knowwhen God is actually speaking to
you in a vision, a dream, aprophecy.
(21:42):
You will know these things.
So you don't have to knoweverything and you don't have to
stress about finding out Ifthis is not something that
really matters to you.
Just make sure your heart isopen for God to use in this
matter, should he ever want touse you for it.
(22:03):
But you don't have to sit therelearning about it.
It's not necessary.
Some people want to know, somedon't, and that's okay.
Just stay close to God, stay inthe Word that is most important
.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, absolutely, and just seek Him every day with an
open and honest heart and betotally transparent with God.
He knows everything anyway, sowe can't, we'll never surprise
Him.
So if you just continually goto God and just say, lord, you
know what do you want to show metoday, and just be open to Him,
and it may come from any numberof sources or any number of
things that you read or whatever, but God always finds a way to
(22:39):
shine his light into our livesand into our understanding of
getting closer to him.
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Amen, I agree.
Well, thank you again, johnny,for coming on, and I hope you
have a good day.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
You too.
It's been an absolute pleasure,god bless.
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