March 5, 2025 • 32 mins
Can New Age practices like yoga find a place within the Christian faith, or are they inherently incompatible? This episode of Honest Christian Conversations dares to tackle this provocative question head-on. With my insightful guest, David Libby, we explore the spiritual dimensions and potential conflicts that arise when practices traditionally rooted in other religions are integrated into Christian life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On this episode of Honest Christian Conversations,
I am joined once more by mybrother in Christ, david Libby,
to discuss the topic ofredeeming New Age practices.
Is there a way to save thesepractices so that Christians can
safely do them, or is this justanother false teaching?
Keep listening to learn whichpractices we are talking about
(00:21):
and whether it's even a biblicalconcept.
Before the episode starts, makesure you follow the show so you
never miss another episode.
Thank you, david, for coming ontoday.
I am very excited to talk aboutthis topic because it's a
(00:45):
mixture of different subjects,but one of them has been talked
about a lot lately because it'sstarting to become an issue
everyone's eyes are open to, onebeing yoga.
But we are going to be talkingabout new age practices and I'm
very excited that you took thetime to come on and discuss this
with me.
Let's get into it, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, thank you, anna .
I'm awfully glad that youinvited me to talk about this.
I've never been an occultist.
I've never been in the New Agemovement.
I know people who have.
I have a very good friend who,before he was converted to
Christianity, was on the road tobecoming a New Age priest, and
he tells some interestingstories.
He's seen supernatural thingswhich are demonic in nature.
(01:29):
The New Age is just likeHinduism and Islam and Mormonism
and all kinds of otherFreemasonry secret societies.
These aren't just things ofhuman invention.
These things have demonic rootsand I'm flattered that you
would invite me.
I have studied this and I amministering in an area in
(01:51):
central Maine where there's alot of New Age influence and a
lot of Wiccans and a lot ofCovens, and so this is stuff
that we are somewhat involved in, but there are others out there
who are better experts at itthan I am.
So I'm flattered that you wouldinvite me and I'm very, very
glad to be here yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So which topic do you want to talk about first?
Do we start with the elephantin the room of yoga, or should
we go to the other ones?
that nobody's probably thinking,uh nice, we'll start with the
outfit, I guess, if that's whatyou want to do yeah, well, yoga,
uh, I never really liked yoga,even before I found any of this
(02:33):
other stuff about it out.
I just I could never really dothe poses.
I didn't understand why you hadto be so perfect with it.
Everyone always made it look soflawless and so fabulous, but I
was just like it just wasn'tfor me.
I'm like I can just stretch.
I don't need to stretch in someweird pose, so I was just never
really a fan of it.
But once again, 2020 has reallyopened my eyes to a lot of
(02:58):
different things, and this wasone of them, and I started
learning what is really yoga isabout, and it's more of a
spiritual worship of Hindu deity.
You're acting out poses fromdifferent fight scenes, or
whatever you're, as DoreenVirtue calls it.
She's amazing, by the way.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Her YouTube.
Follow her YouTube.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Talks about how it's like a graven image.
You're turning yourself into agraven image and if that doesn't
scare you into getting awayfrom yoga as fast as possible,
then I don't really know whatwill, because we are told not to
have any idols above God andwe're always thinking the whole
oh well, you know, maybe I'm onsocial media too much, so maybe
(03:44):
I'm making that an idol, or Iwatch too much TV or video games
or I eat too much, but no one'sthinking about yoga as, oh, I'm
idolizing with my body, I'mdoing something really wrong.
Nobody's thought about that.
They are now because it'sstarting to be something that a
(04:09):
lot of Christian podcasters aretalking about.
But it's a subject that is, itbreeds contempt for those who
really like it Christian or notChristian and those who don't it
like breeds a fighting spiritbetween them, and it's really
sad because, especially forChristians, we should not be at
war against each other.
If it says that you areworshiping other gods by doing
this and you're creatingyourself into a graven image, I
feel like all Christians shouldbe able to get behind that and
(04:31):
say, yeah, this is bad, weshouldn't be doing it.
But that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well, I agree with you and you know, I remember a
time I think I'm a little olderthan you.
I'm 55.
Yeah, 40, so not too much olderthan you.
I'm 55.
Yeah, 40,.
So not too much, okay, not toomuch right.
But I remember, you know, maybewhen I was 20 or so, I remember
yoga being something thatChristians would not do.
And that's all changed and Igrew up in an ecclesiastical
(04:59):
tradition, in Reformed churches,where there was a very strong
emphasis on sound doctrine, andeven in those churches now
pastors' wives are doing yoga.
And it really amazes me, and Iguess, even beyond what you said
.
I agree 100% with everythingyou said about the graven image,
second commandment, but evenbeyond that, what we see in yoga
is an intentional act ofworship being offered to a
(05:21):
pantheon of idols, gods thataren't really gods, and I
believe there are demonicinfluences behind these gods.
I don't believe it's simplyman-made idols.
So we have the Hindu pantheonand yoga being actually
venerated and worshipped.
When I mentioned the poses, weall agree that physical exercise
is a good thing, right, I mean,there's nothing wrong with
physical exercise.
But you can't do these poses inyoga without there being acts
(05:47):
of worship to this Hindupantheon.
That's what they're intended tobe.
Our actions and our words haveobjective meaning behind them.
I think you mentioned thewarrior poses, the
Virabhadrasana.
You're actually acting out inthese warrior poses, You're
acting out a murder scene whereShiva was being avenged by
Virabhadra, and the worst partof it isn't that it's a murder
scene where Shiva was beingavenged by Virabhadra, and the
worst part of it isn't that it'sa murder scene.
The worst part is it's a murderscene as an act of veneration
(06:09):
for Virabhadra as he vindicatedShiva or avenged Shiva.
I'm fuzzy on the details.
I read about this years ago.
You mentioned the elephant inthe room.
It's interesting that Ganesha'sinvolved somehow as well.
Ganesha was the elephant head.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It somehow as well, because that was the elephant
head.
It is so funny.
Yeah, I don't get it.
I don't.
I don't understand what theappeal is to the to the point
that christians defend it.
I mean to think about it.
Where in any other sort ofworkout do they critique your
position?
I do.
I've worked out before.
I've seen some videos wherethey say make sure you're doing
(06:47):
it right because you don't wantto hurt yourself.
But they're not going to comeup behind you and make sure that
your squat is absolutely, 100%,exact the way they think it
should be or the way they weretaught it should be, as long as
you look pretty much safe, youknow, I've been told you keep
(07:07):
your feet up and if you canwiggle your feet, then you've
got your body set in the correctposition to do a squat.
That's pretty much all theytell you.
They don't sit therescrutinizing you 100 percent,
make sure it looks great.
But that's what they do withyoga.
I've seen it in movies, I'veseen it in shows, I've seen
classes.
(07:27):
They're constantly making sureyou're doing it right.
Your arm may not be all the wayup where it should be.
What do you mean?
My arm isn't all the way upwhere it should be.
It's up, it's practically up.
It looks like everyone else's.
Why are you pushing it downjust a little bit?
Because you're not in thegraven image position that you
need to be to do the worship.
(07:48):
You're doing it wrong.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
They won't say that, but that's what it is, and if
you think about it then it'slike good gracious you should
stop right now.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah those poses are meant to be.
They are intentionally.
Now, I don't necessarily meanintentional on the part of the
person practicing yoga, theperson could be ignorant, but it
is an intentional act ofworship and as God is very
particular about how we used tobe worshipped, so is Satan.
So these poses are anintentional act of worship and
therefore you've got to get itright or you're not worshipping
correctly.
(08:19):
Actually Hindu prayers, hinduprayers being offered to a
pantheon of demon gods, apantheon of false gods.
I'm reminded of a text.
Do you mind?
If I read a little text fromEzekiel, I can find the right
one, because this actually, Ithink is very appropriate to
what we're talking about herewith yoga.
Now, this isn't a text aboutyoga specifically, but I'll read
(08:43):
it and then we can give alittle commentary on it.
Look Ezekiel 8, starting atverse 13,.
And he said to me Turn again andyou will see greater
abominations that they are doing.
So he brought me to the door ofthe north gate of the Lord's
house and, to my dismay, womenwere sitting there weeping for
Tammuz.
Now, weeping for Tammuz, youknow they weren't actually
weeping.
It's kind of a ritual that theywould go through as an act of
(09:05):
worship to these Canaanite gods.
But that's the same thing thatyou're doing.
When you're doing these yogaposes.
You're essentially, forinstance, the details, you're
not weeping for Tammuz, but theessence of it is exactly the
same thing.
You're using poses and in Aumand Namaste you're using the
prayers and so forth that areactually being offered as a
(09:28):
ritual, as a form of worship tothese Hindu gods.
But if I read on a little bitfrom here, then he said to me
have you seen this, o son of man?
Turn again and you will seegreater abominations than these.
And he brought me into theinner court of the Lord's house
and there, at the door of thetemple of the Lord, between the
porch and the altar, were about25 men with their backs toward
(09:48):
the temple of the Lord and theirfaces toward the east, and they
were worshiping the sun towardthe east.
Okay, so in yoga you've got thewhole series of poses, the sun
salutation poses.
That is very literally theexact same thing that they were
doing here in Ezekiel 8.
They're worshiping the sun.
The sun salutation poses inyoga are sun worship.
You know exactly the same thingwe read about right here, which
(10:09):
God calls an abomination.
If I could read just a coupleof verses more.
Yeah, of course.
And he said to me have you seenthis, o son of man?
Is it a trivial thing to thehouse of Judah to commit the
abominations which they commithere?
For they have filled the landwith violence.
They have returned to provokeme to anger.
Indeed, they put the branch totheir nose.
Therefore, I will act in fury.
Those are strong words.
(10:30):
I will act in fury.
My eye will not spare, nor willI have pity, and though they
cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them.
Those are really strong wordsfrom the almighty Lord of hosts.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Which kind of reminds me of an underlying problem
that I think forms a foundationfor the acceptance of things
like yoga within the church, andthat is that we have lost our
fear of God.
Don't you think?
To fear God doesn't mean thatwe're scared of him as if he
were our enemy?
He's not our enemy, but it doesactually mean to be scared.
You know, he's a consuming fire.
(11:04):
Hebrews 12, 28 tells us, andthat's in relation to his elect,
his people.
So we've lost the fear of Godand so we think, ah, he doesn't
really care that much.
But when I look at what yogaactually is, it's really the
same thing that's happening here, and we have God saying that
it's an abomination to him.
It makes him very angry and hiseye will not spear.
He will not relent withoutrepentance.
(11:24):
We know that with repentance,all of a sudden, with true
repentance, faith in our LordJesus Christ, even these
abominations are forgiven andwe're made new.
But without repentance, god isnot okay with this, this.
He's not okay with these kindsof practices yeah, and it's a
new age practice.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
If you look at it, it comes from eastern religion.
Hello, there's the tip off thatmaybe christians should at
least be a little aware becauseit's so popular.
It's.
It's everywhere, it's in themovies I watch, you know there's
studios everywhere.
But if you look at it and I knowDoreen Virtue has mentioned it
(12:04):
and a couple other people that Ilisten to who also talk about
the subject, they all mention itthat when you get involved in
yoga you don't just stay justinvolved in yoga.
Usually it leads you down apath to other practices that are
new age in spirit, becauseyou're not actually just working
out Like if you were to go tothe gym and pump weights.
(12:27):
You're not going to all of asudden find yourself in some
sort of cult or whatever becauseyou're just there to pump
weights, but with yoga you findyourself diving deeper into it
because you're emptying yourmind, you're oming and all this
stuff.
You're doing all these thingsthat are leading you to a darker
path and you don't even know itor you don't see it as dark
(12:51):
because you feel relaxed, youfeel calm and all this stuff,
but it is only short-lived.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's helping me.
It can't be wrong, right.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, my back feels better andit's like well, there's other
back stretches that you can do.
That's not an excuse to keepgoing if you know it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Well, you know, and I'm not convinced, that Satan
doesn't have the ability to giveus temporal benefits for
serving him.
But if serving Satan makes mefeel better here in this life, I
want to feel terrible.
If the cost of feeling betteris serving Satan, I want to feel
terrible.
And if we serve him, we lose inthe end big time.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
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(13:55):
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Speaker 2 (14:10):
The link is in the show notes.
Yeah, oh, Anna, thank you formentioning the emptying of the
mind, what you just said aminute ago.
That should always be a redflag for any servant of the Lord
.
You know, we find that inthings like you know,
contemplative prayer.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yes, I wanted to talk to you about that too.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Okay, okay, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Bring it.
Bring it, David.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Contemplative prayer is presented as this way to, you
know, draw closer to God, havea closer, you know, felt
relationship with him.
That is wonderful.
To have a closer feltrelationship with God, to have
this subjective relationship.
You know, there is an objectiveside.
There's also a subjective side.
We need to know God through thestudy of his word.
We, you know, we, can't knowGod without knowing about him.
(14:50):
But we could know all about himand not really know him.
You know, no problem, it'sgreat, you know.
Jesus said in Revelation 3,behold, it's great.
Jesus said in Revelation 3,behold, I stand at the door and
knock.
If anyone will open the door tome, I will come in and commune
with them, dine with them.
So I want to open that door, Iwant them to dine with me,
commune with me.
I want to have that feltrelationship.
But the problem withcontemplative prayer it says you
(15:10):
get that by emptying your mindand we do not find that anywhere
in Scripture.
We find exactly the opposite.
We find the renewing of themind, Meditating on Scripture.
Exactly that's right.
Gird up your mind.
1 Peter 1.13,.
I think the mind is alwayssupposed to be actively engaged.
(15:31):
God wants our minds.
He doesn't want us to be emptyvessels.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
That's what.
Satan wants.
Just empty yourself and he'llfind something to fill that void
with.
It's not going to be anythinggood what I did hear about it.
It sounded very new, agey, veryyou know.
Empty your mind and like thatdoes not sound like what we're
supposed to be doing and I justI don't like how this these
(16:11):
things are being taught tochildren in school too.
I mean, yoga is a big thing inschools, public schools mostly.
It's supposed to help relax thekids.
It's like you know what elsehelps relax the kids, not yoga,
because I've heard some storiesabout how kids have nightmares
in bed, weddings and otherthings that happen afterwards
and, hello, it's because they'redemons attached to this stuff.
(16:32):
It's not just a practice.
If your child is actingdifferent after doing any sort
of yoga, perhaps you should lookat the yoga.
I mean this happened to me for alittle bit when my girls were
you know.
They did some yoga at theirschool for a little while until
I started learning more aboutthis and I was like, yeah, this
is bad, but I noticed some oddbehaviors coming from them not
(16:55):
to the extreme that I justmentioned, but they weren't
acting quite themselves.
So I just decided I'm going totell their school no yoga,
please.
And I explained to my girls whythey know that it's a fake God
worship.
That's basically what I toldthem, because they're young so
they know that and they telltheir teachers we can't do this,
(17:16):
this is fake God worship.
That.
And they tell their teachers wecan't do this, this is fake God
worship.
And it's fine.
I'm fine with them knowing thatand that they're carrying that
on and their understanding andit just.
It makes me angry that they'rejust putting this in the schools
like this is something that'sgoing to help kids or whatever,
but I think it's harming themtoo, and nobody is batting an
(17:37):
eye about it.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Well, I think we need to maybe see a bigger picture
here too that you know there is.
We're seeing a worldwide risein Luciferianism and, you know,
I think we need to recognizethat, we need to recognize the
global influence of a Luciferian, luciferic system and maybe
even come to see things like NewAge, mormonism, freemasonry,
(17:59):
any sequence societies, any ofthat things as different
denominations maybe ofLuciferianism and with that in
mind, we can recognize that thisis intentional.
You know they're evangelizing.
Well, it's not the good news.
What would the opposite of that?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
be Evangelizing, they're devangelizing.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
But that's what they're doing, know they?
They want our children.
I I looked into some a littlebit into, uh, after school satan
clubs and so forth, but whichare springing up all across the
country there's some around metoo, or where I live, you know
yeah, I, I saw, I saw a littlejingle recently, a little song.
It sounded so cute and neat andit had a baphomet symbol while
(18:41):
they were playing the song andit was about how Satan's not a
scary guy, satan's a good guyand a nice guy, and little kids
jingling.
So this is intentional.
It's intentional and of courseit is.
It's been intentional sinceGenesis 3, genesis 2, I think
Anyway, so probably.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
If we're going to talk about the elephant in the
room, we us too, I think, anyway, so probably if we're going to
talk about the elephant in theroom, Anna, we maybe ought to
talk about how there haveactually been attempts to
Christianize yoga, right Likethe praise moves, praise moves,
prayer moves, yes.
Oh my goodness, I loveChristians.
I understand what they thinkthey're trying to do with this.
(19:16):
I get the concept, what theythink they're trying to do with
this.
I get the concept, I completelyget the concept that we want to
try to redeem it.
But there's some things youjust can't redeem.
You know this is one of them.
The poses themselves areworshiping idols.
So how are you going to redeemthat if all you're doing is
switching the name and putting aBible verse on it, but you're
(19:39):
still doing the pose.
That's the problem.
Is the pose, not what it'scalled or whatever they explain
it as the problem is the pose,because that's the worship.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.
I think that any of yourlisteners who aren't familiar
with a little bit of theologicaldoctrinal lingo a term called
the regulative principleprobably should become familiar
with it.
At the time of the Reformation,when Martin Luther nailed his
95 Theses on the church door, itsparked the Protestant
Reformation, and what he wasattempting to accomplish there
wasn't to split from theCatholic Church, but he wanted
(20:14):
to have an internal debate withanother blowing up, and the
Protestant Reformation was born,thankfully.
But Luther it's understandablebecause he was a Catholic monk,
but he wanted to retain as muchas he could from Roman
Catholicism in corporate worship, as much of the liturgy as he
could.
That wasn't overtly evil andsinful.
Then later, reformers like JohnCalvin and others came along
(20:34):
and said well, you know what?
That's actually not going farenough.
We need to regulate corporateworship from Scripture alone,
from the New Testament alone.
So, in other words, if apractice is not directly
commanded by God, we shouldn'tdo it, and there's quite a stark
difference there.
And so what we see in thechurch today is what's often
called the normative principle.
If God hasn't forbidden it,therefore, it's okay.
(20:56):
That's why we have clowns andmimes and interpretive dance and
so forth in our services andall kinds of other weird stuff
that goes even farther than that.
But the regulative principlewould say no, actually it's not
okay to do things that Godhasn't commanded.
We have to stick with what hehas prescribed.
Let's get our definition ofcorporate worship from God's
word, and from God's word alone.
(21:16):
So that principle applies here.
If you take a, a Hindu practice, a practice that is actually
(21:46):
worship of the Hindu pantheon,as I'll read one of them, I'm
going to turn to 1 Kings,chapter 12, and I'm going to
read verses 28 through 33.
So 1 Kings 12, 28 through 33.
Okay, so the context here iswhen Solomon handed off the
kingdom to his son, rehoboam.
You know, solomon the wisestking had built the most foolish
(22:08):
king to succeed him, and therewas that split between the ten
tribes of Israel and the twotribes that remained under
Rehoboam, that would be Judahand Benjamin, and a man named
Jeroboam, son of Nebat, becameking of the ten tribes of Israel
.
So that's the context.
So, therefore, the king, that'sJeroboam, asked advice, made
two calves of gold and said tothe people it is too much for
(22:29):
you to go up to Jerusalem.
Here are your gods, o Israel,which brought you up from the
land of Egypt, and he set up onein Bethel and the other he put
in Dan.
Now this thing became a sin,for the people went to worship
before the one.
As far as Dan, he made shrinesin the high places and made
priests from every class ofpeople who were not of the sons
of Levi.
Jeroboam ordained a feast onthe fifteenth day of the eighth
(22:51):
month, like the feast that wasin Judah, and offered sacrifices
on the altar.
So he did at Bethel,sacrificing to the calves he had
made, and at Bethel heinstalled the priests of the
high places which he had made.
So he made offerings on thealtar which he had made at
Bethel on the 15th day of theeighth month in the months which
he had devised in his own heart.
And he ordained a feast for thechildren of Israel and offered
(23:13):
sacrifices on the altar andburned incense.
And that's not the only timethere were golden calves.
It was Exodus 32, when Moseswas up on Mount Sinai and Aaron
made a golden calf.
So in this case, here and inExodus 32, we don't have King
Jeroboam and Aaron in Exodussaying you know what?
Let's forget about the God ofAbraham, isaac and Jacob.
Let's turn our backs on Yahwehand turn to other gods.
(23:34):
That's not what happened ineither of these cases.
In both cases, they said thisis God, this is Yahweh, this is
the God who brought you out ofthe land of Egypt.
Let's just do it our own way.
In both cases here in 1 Kingsand also in Exodus 32, probably
more so in Exodus 32, the formof worship that was being
prescribed, the golden calf wassomething they were familiar
with.
(23:55):
Calf worship was prevalent inEgypt.
Egypt, for 400 years, came intothe world and they're saying
Moses is not coming down fromthe mountain.
We don't know what became ofhim.
Aaron, make us a god.
So we said okay, here is arepresentation of the true and
living God.
So he wasn't saying turn awayfrom God.
(24:15):
He was saying this is God, thisis the one who brought you out
of Egypt, and it's somethingthey were familiar with.
You're familiar with calfworship?
Okay, well, we'll make a calf,literally the same thing that's
being done in yoga.
You're retaining the outwardelements of the Hindu worship
and just try to Christianize it.
Okay, so we're going to gothrough the Virabhadrasana
(24:39):
warrior poses and we're notgoing to offer this as worship
to Virabhadra.
We're going to offer it asworship to Jesus instead.
Well, no, you're taking agolden calf and saying this is
the God who brought you out ofthe land of Egypt.
It's not.
The yoga, is not worship of theLord Jesus.
You can't do that.
You can't take the golden calfand say you know, this is the
true God.
No, it isn't.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, I agree.
What do you think about Christalignment cards're like
christian tarot cards or tarot.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I believe it's tarot is the correct term the whole
point of tarot cards is fortunetelling, divination, um, and, by
the way, it does seem to work.
You know you mentioned dorianvirtue, she, she and uh, the
other ladies on that otherpodcast.
They talk about that.
It works, same way that youknow psychic, so-called gifts
work.
You know there's a demonicrealm out there that can feed us
(25:29):
information.
But to take a tool ofdivination and divination and it
got a fortune telling isabsolutely, without question,
denounced as an absoluteabomination in the sight of God,
something that angers him.
To take that practice and totry to Christianize it, try to
put Christian symbols on thesecards, I mean that's like adding
insult to injury.
I think it's worse.
(25:49):
I think Christian tarot cardsare probably worse than the
non-Christian ones You're goingto try to involve, you're going
to try to wrap Jesus up in thissomehow, in this evil
fortune-telling divination.
It's horrible.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, divination, it's horrible, yeah, and I don't
know if the person who came upwith it is affiliated with
Bethel or Hillsong, but I knowBethel, I believe, has something
to do with these cards.
I don't see how any Christianwho's got their head on straight
, who's focused on God and hastheir Bible open all the time
(26:26):
and knows the word, can look atthese things and not say
something for one, and maybeeven be involved or just dismiss
it or say, oh, what's theproblem?
What's the harm?
They're trying to help people,but you're not helping people if
, like you said, divination isan abomination.
The Bible clearly says do notdo this.
(26:48):
So if you are doing it, guesswhat you're doing.
You're doing what, james?
What is it?
One, not one.
I don't remember specificallywhere it is, but it is one of my
favorite verses, james, I thinkit's.
I want to say 417, but I couldbe wrong.
You might know once I say it.
James says if you know what youought to do and you don't do it
(27:08):
, you're sinning.
I believe it's James 4, 17.
I could be wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I'm not sure I'm familiar with the verse.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, but it's that's .
That's plain as day.
You're not supposed to dodivination, but you're doing
divination the Jesus way, oh,noesus way.
There's no jesus way to do whathe told you not to do yeah, no,
I oh yeah amen.
Um, like I said, I think it'salmost worse yeah, yeah, it is
(27:36):
because you're leading otherpeople astray, because then they
think that that's okay, thatit's not real demon worship,
it's.
It's okay, it's jesus.
It's like what I was sayingwhen I did my series on worship
music and how we need to becareful on what our worship
music is saying too and thevalues that are in that during
(27:56):
season two.
If you haven't listened to it,you should go listen to it.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I haven't, but I will .
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Example yeah.
Yeah, it's like.
This is a perfect example ofyou can't always just trust just
because someone says it'sChristian or I'm a Christian.
You have to look at the fruit.
You have to look at whatthey're promoting, whatever they
call it.
Where's the spiritual fruitthat's leading to God's glory?
(28:29):
It's non-existent, because youwere flat out doing something he
told you not to do.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Right, right.
Well, you mentioned Hillsongand Bethel Music and I haven't
looked into them a whole lot,but enough to satisfy me that I
think that there is somethingreally dark there.
In fact, I've seen what almostlook like witchcraft rituals
happening right on the stagesometimes.
Yeah, yeah, stuff to be takenseriously.
It shouldn't surprise us.
(28:56):
The Lord Jesus said the churchwould be infiltrated.
There will be wolves in sheep'sclothing.
In my ecclesiastical traditionthey limit that to false
teaching.
Now, false teaching certainlyis included in that.
Wolves in sheep's clothing areoften false teachers.
But I believe that Satan isclever enough to introduce
infiltration in other ways aswell.
I know one pastor who performedchurch in another state.
(29:17):
I'm not going to say any names,but I believe he's a ritual
attending Luciferian.
He came to a church and shutdown prayer, made all kinds of
changes.
That still teaches sounddoctrine, but I'm not going to
go into much detail.
Infiltration happens, I guess,in a lot of different ways.
I guess is my point.
We have to be on a guardagainst that.
That's what the Lord Jesuscommanded that we do, anyway.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Discernment.
We need to be in the Word.
If you aren't in the Word, youdon't know what God's telling
you.
You don't know what he's saying.
How are you going to know whatthe right things are?
And if you're not going tolisten to people who are in the
word, who are sharing the truth,like us, like other podcasters
who are doing the same thingwarning people about yoga, about
Christ alignment cards, angelcards, all these other things
(30:03):
that seem like they're the goodkind of magic, there is no good
kind of magic.
And for someone, especially aChristian, to tell you that,
that you can redeem these things, they don't have their biblical
facts correct and you shouldnot be following them.
You should not be listening ordoing what they're doing.
And if you are a young believerand you are listening to this
(30:27):
podcast right now, I am tellingyou that if someone is telling
you it's okay to do yoga, justcall it prayer moves, or do
prayer moves or all these otherthings, if you've come out of
the new age and people aretelling you to do these things,
don't listen to them, becausethey don't have the spirit of
God in them, because if they did, they would be reading their
Bibles and they would know thatthey should not be doing these
(30:49):
things, that there is noredeeming things that God has
blatantly said do not do.
They are abomination to me.
So I am telling you to stayaway from these practices and
people who are trying to get youto do them.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Well said, dear sister.
Thank you, Very well said dearsister, thank you.
Very well said, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Well, there is so much more that could be said
about these things, but we aresadly out of time.
So, david, thank you so muchfor coming on today and sharing
this with us and sharing yourheart and your honesty, sharing
the Bible with us.
I mean, maybe people aren't inthe word, but now they've heard
(31:30):
the word, because you shared itboldly, and I pray that it would
affect people in a good way andthey would start turning from
these practices before they getsucked into something that could
ruin their lives, ruin theirafterlife when they go to their
final destination.
So thank you for coming on andtalking with me about this.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Amen Thank you for having me, anna, and thank you
for what you're doing and amento what you said about getting
in God's Word.
Right now I'm reading sixchapters a day and it takes me
about half an hour a day, andthat reads the Bible almost
twice in a year.
So it's not this insurmountablething to read God's Word.
Get into God's Word, read it,read it, read it, read it.
(32:13):
Amen, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
You're welcome, thank you.
On this episode of Honest Christian Conversations,
I am joined once more by mybrother in Christ, david Libby,
to discuss the topic ofredeeming New Age practices.
Is there a way to save thesepractices so that Christians can
safely do them, or is this justanother false teaching?
Keep listening to learn whichpractices we are talking about
(00:21):
and whether it's even a biblicalconcept.
Before the episode starts, makesure you follow the show so you
never miss another episode.
Thank you, david, for coming ontoday.
I am very excited to talk aboutthis topic because it's a
(00:45):
mixture of different subjects,but one of them has been talked
about a lot lately because it'sstarting to become an issue
everyone's eyes are open to, onebeing yoga.
But we are going to be talkingabout new age practices and I'm
very excited that you took thetime to come on and discuss this
with me.
Let's get into it, okay.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, thank you, anna .
I'm awfully glad that youinvited me to talk about this.
I've never been an occultist.
I've never been in the New Agemovement.
I know people who have.
I have a very good friend who,before he was converted to
Christianity, was on the road tobecoming a New Age priest, and
he tells some interestingstories.
He's seen supernatural thingswhich are demonic in nature.
(01:29):
The New Age is just likeHinduism and Islam and Mormonism
and all kinds of otherFreemasonry secret societies.
These aren't just things ofhuman invention.
These things have demonic rootsand I'm flattered that you
would invite me.
I have studied this and I amministering in an area in
(01:51):
central Maine where there's alot of New Age influence and a
lot of Wiccans and a lot ofCovens, and so this is stuff
that we are somewhat involved in, but there are others out there
who are better experts at itthan I am.
So I'm flattered that you wouldinvite me and I'm very, very
glad to be here yeah, no problem.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
So which topic do you want to talk about first?
Do we start with the elephantin the room of yoga, or should
we go to the other ones?
that nobody's probably thinking,uh nice, we'll start with the
outfit, I guess, if that's whatyou want to do yeah, well, yoga,
uh, I never really liked yoga,even before I found any of this
(02:33):
other stuff about it out.
I just I could never really dothe poses.
I didn't understand why you hadto be so perfect with it.
Everyone always made it look soflawless and so fabulous, but I
was just like it just wasn'tfor me.
I'm like I can just stretch.
I don't need to stretch in someweird pose, so I was just never
really a fan of it.
But once again, 2020 has reallyopened my eyes to a lot of
(02:58):
different things, and this wasone of them, and I started
learning what is really yoga isabout, and it's more of a
spiritual worship of Hindu deity.
You're acting out poses fromdifferent fight scenes, or
whatever you're, as DoreenVirtue calls it.
She's amazing, by the way.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Her YouTube.
Follow her YouTube.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Talks about how it's like a graven image.
You're turning yourself into agraven image and if that doesn't
scare you into getting awayfrom yoga as fast as possible,
then I don't really know whatwill, because we are told not to
have any idols above God andwe're always thinking the whole
oh well, you know, maybe I'm onsocial media too much, so maybe
(03:44):
I'm making that an idol, or Iwatch too much TV or video games
or I eat too much, but no one'sthinking about yoga as, oh, I'm
idolizing with my body, I'mdoing something really wrong.
Nobody's thought about that.
They are now because it'sstarting to be something that a
(04:09):
lot of Christian podcasters aretalking about.
But it's a subject that is, itbreeds contempt for those who
really like it Christian or notChristian and those who don't it
like breeds a fighting spiritbetween them, and it's really
sad because, especially forChristians, we should not be at
war against each other.
If it says that you areworshiping other gods by doing
this and you're creatingyourself into a graven image, I
feel like all Christians shouldbe able to get behind that and
(04:31):
say, yeah, this is bad, weshouldn't be doing it.
But that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well, I agree with you and you know, I remember a
time I think I'm a little olderthan you.
I'm 55.
Yeah, 40, so not too much olderthan you.
I'm 55.
Yeah, 40,.
So not too much, okay, not toomuch right.
But I remember, you know, maybewhen I was 20 or so, I remember
yoga being something thatChristians would not do.
And that's all changed and Igrew up in an ecclesiastical
(04:59):
tradition, in Reformed churches,where there was a very strong
emphasis on sound doctrine, andeven in those churches now
pastors' wives are doing yoga.
And it really amazes me, and Iguess, even beyond what you said
.
I agree 100% with everythingyou said about the graven image,
second commandment, but evenbeyond that, what we see in yoga
is an intentional act ofworship being offered to a
(05:21):
pantheon of idols, gods thataren't really gods, and I
believe there are demonicinfluences behind these gods.
I don't believe it's simplyman-made idols.
So we have the Hindu pantheonand yoga being actually
venerated and worshipped.
When I mentioned the poses, weall agree that physical exercise
is a good thing, right, I mean,there's nothing wrong with
physical exercise.
But you can't do these poses inyoga without there being acts
(05:47):
of worship to this Hindupantheon.
That's what they're intended tobe.
Our actions and our words haveobjective meaning behind them.
I think you mentioned thewarrior poses, the
Virabhadrasana.
You're actually acting out inthese warrior poses, You're
acting out a murder scene whereShiva was being avenged by
Virabhadra, and the worst partof it isn't that it's a murder
scene where Shiva was beingavenged by Virabhadra, and the
worst part of it isn't that it'sa murder scene.
The worst part is it's a murderscene as an act of veneration
(06:09):
for Virabhadra as he vindicatedShiva or avenged Shiva.
I'm fuzzy on the details.
I read about this years ago.
You mentioned the elephant inthe room.
It's interesting that Ganesha'sinvolved somehow as well.
Ganesha was the elephant head.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It somehow as well, because that was the elephant
head.
It is so funny.
Yeah, I don't get it.
I don't.
I don't understand what theappeal is to the to the point
that christians defend it.
I mean to think about it.
Where in any other sort ofworkout do they critique your
position?
I do.
I've worked out before.
I've seen some videos wherethey say make sure you're doing
(06:47):
it right because you don't wantto hurt yourself.
But they're not going to comeup behind you and make sure that
your squat is absolutely, 100%,exact the way they think it
should be or the way they weretaught it should be, as long as
you look pretty much safe, youknow, I've been told you keep
(07:07):
your feet up and if you canwiggle your feet, then you've
got your body set in the correctposition to do a squat.
That's pretty much all theytell you.
They don't sit therescrutinizing you 100 percent,
make sure it looks great.
But that's what they do withyoga.
I've seen it in movies, I'veseen it in shows, I've seen
classes.
(07:27):
They're constantly making sureyou're doing it right.
Your arm may not be all the wayup where it should be.
What do you mean?
My arm isn't all the way upwhere it should be.
It's up, it's practically up.
It looks like everyone else's.
Why are you pushing it downjust a little bit?
Because you're not in thegraven image position that you
need to be to do the worship.
(07:48):
You're doing it wrong.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
They won't say that, but that's what it is, and if
you think about it then it'slike good gracious you should
stop right now.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah those poses are meant to be.
They are intentionally.
Now, I don't necessarily meanintentional on the part of the
person practicing yoga, theperson could be ignorant, but it
is an intentional act ofworship and as God is very
particular about how we used tobe worshipped, so is Satan.
So these poses are anintentional act of worship and
therefore you've got to get itright or you're not worshipping
correctly.
(08:19):
Actually Hindu prayers, hinduprayers being offered to a
pantheon of demon gods, apantheon of false gods.
I'm reminded of a text.
Do you mind?
If I read a little text fromEzekiel, I can find the right
one, because this actually, Ithink is very appropriate to
what we're talking about herewith yoga.
Now, this isn't a text aboutyoga specifically, but I'll read
(08:43):
it and then we can give alittle commentary on it.
Look Ezekiel 8, starting atverse 13,.
And he said to me Turn again andyou will see greater
abominations that they are doing.
So he brought me to the door ofthe north gate of the Lord's
house and, to my dismay, womenwere sitting there weeping for
Tammuz.
Now, weeping for Tammuz, youknow they weren't actually
weeping.
It's kind of a ritual that theywould go through as an act of
(09:05):
worship to these Canaanite gods.
But that's the same thing thatyou're doing.
When you're doing these yogaposes.
You're essentially, forinstance, the details, you're
not weeping for Tammuz, but theessence of it is exactly the
same thing.
You're using poses and in Aumand Namaste you're using the
prayers and so forth that areactually being offered as a
(09:28):
ritual, as a form of worship tothese Hindu gods.
But if I read on a little bitfrom here, then he said to me
have you seen this, o son of man?
Turn again and you will seegreater abominations than these.
And he brought me into theinner court of the Lord's house
and there, at the door of thetemple of the Lord, between the
porch and the altar, were about25 men with their backs toward
(09:48):
the temple of the Lord and theirfaces toward the east, and they
were worshiping the sun towardthe east.
Okay, so in yoga you've got thewhole series of poses, the sun
salutation poses.
That is very literally theexact same thing that they were
doing here in Ezekiel 8.
They're worshiping the sun.
The sun salutation poses inyoga are sun worship.
You know exactly the same thingwe read about right here, which
(10:09):
God calls an abomination.
If I could read just a coupleof verses more.
Yeah, of course.
And he said to me have you seenthis, o son of man?
Is it a trivial thing to thehouse of Judah to commit the
abominations which they commithere?
For they have filled the landwith violence.
They have returned to provokeme to anger.
Indeed, they put the branch totheir nose.
Therefore, I will act in fury.
Those are strong words.
(10:30):
I will act in fury.
My eye will not spare, nor willI have pity, and though they
cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them.
Those are really strong wordsfrom the almighty Lord of hosts.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Which kind of reminds me of an underlying problem
that I think forms a foundationfor the acceptance of things
like yoga within the church, andthat is that we have lost our
fear of God.
Don't you think?
To fear God doesn't mean thatwe're scared of him as if he
were our enemy?
He's not our enemy, but it doesactually mean to be scared.
You know, he's a consuming fire.
(11:04):
Hebrews 12, 28 tells us, andthat's in relation to his elect,
his people.
So we've lost the fear of Godand so we think, ah, he doesn't
really care that much.
But when I look at what yogaactually is, it's really the
same thing that's happening here, and we have God saying that
it's an abomination to him.
It makes him very angry and hiseye will not spear.
He will not relent withoutrepentance.
(11:24):
We know that with repentance,all of a sudden, with true
repentance, faith in our LordJesus Christ, even these
abominations are forgiven andwe're made new.
But without repentance, god isnot okay with this, this.
He's not okay with these kindsof practices yeah, and it's a
new age practice.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
If you look at it, it comes from eastern religion.
Hello, there's the tip off thatmaybe christians should at
least be a little aware becauseit's so popular.
It's.
It's everywhere, it's in themovies I watch, you know there's
studios everywhere.
But if you look at it and I knowDoreen Virtue has mentioned it
(12:04):
and a couple other people that Ilisten to who also talk about
the subject, they all mention itthat when you get involved in
yoga you don't just stay justinvolved in yoga.
Usually it leads you down apath to other practices that are
new age in spirit, becauseyou're not actually just working
out Like if you were to go tothe gym and pump weights.
(12:27):
You're not going to all of asudden find yourself in some
sort of cult or whatever becauseyou're just there to pump
weights, but with yoga you findyourself diving deeper into it
because you're emptying yourmind, you're oming and all this
stuff.
You're doing all these thingsthat are leading you to a darker
path and you don't even know itor you don't see it as dark
(12:51):
because you feel relaxed, youfeel calm and all this stuff,
but it is only short-lived.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
It's helping me.
It can't be wrong, right.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, my back feels better andit's like well, there's other
back stretches that you can do.
That's not an excuse to keepgoing if you know it's wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Well, you know, and I'm not convinced, that Satan
doesn't have the ability to giveus temporal benefits for
serving him.
But if serving Satan makes mefeel better here in this life, I
want to feel terrible.
If the cost of feeling betteris serving Satan, I want to feel
terrible.
And if we serve him, we lose inthe end big time.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Who doesn't love free ?
I know I do.
That's why I created a freeseven-day devotional for those
who want to go deeper with God.
It's a short devotional full ofencouragement, guidance and
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through.
I know you will love thisdevotional as much as I enjoyed
(13:55):
writing it.
And since it's digital, thisdevotional, as much as I enjoyed
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And since it's digital, you cando it anywhere, anytime,
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Get the free devotional whenyou sign up for my mailing list.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
The link is in the show notes.
Yeah, oh, Anna, thank you formentioning the emptying of the
mind, what you just said aminute ago.
That should always be a redflag for any servant of the Lord
.
You know, we find that inthings like you know,
contemplative prayer.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yes, I wanted to talk to you about that too.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Okay, okay, yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Bring it.
Bring it, David.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Contemplative prayer is presented as this way to, you
know, draw closer to God, havea closer, you know, felt
relationship with him.
That is wonderful.
To have a closer feltrelationship with God, to have
this subjective relationship.
You know, there is an objectiveside.
There's also a subjective side.
We need to know God through thestudy of his word.
We, you know, we, can't knowGod without knowing about him.
(14:50):
But we could know all about himand not really know him.
You know, no problem, it'sgreat, you know.
Jesus said in Revelation 3,behold, it's great.
Jesus said in Revelation 3,behold, I stand at the door and
knock.
If anyone will open the door tome, I will come in and commune
with them, dine with them.
So I want to open that door, Iwant them to dine with me,
commune with me.
I want to have that feltrelationship.
But the problem withcontemplative prayer it says you
(15:10):
get that by emptying your mindand we do not find that anywhere
in Scripture.
We find exactly the opposite.
We find the renewing of themind, Meditating on Scripture.
Exactly that's right.
Gird up your mind.
1 Peter 1.13,.
I think the mind is alwayssupposed to be actively engaged.
(15:31):
God wants our minds.
He doesn't want us to be emptyvessels.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
That's what.
Satan wants.
Just empty yourself and he'llfind something to fill that void
with.
It's not going to be anythinggood what I did hear about it.
It sounded very new, agey, veryyou know.
Empty your mind and like thatdoes not sound like what we're
supposed to be doing and I justI don't like how this these
(16:11):
things are being taught tochildren in school too.
I mean, yoga is a big thing inschools, public schools mostly.
It's supposed to help relax thekids.
It's like you know what elsehelps relax the kids, not yoga,
because I've heard some storiesabout how kids have nightmares
in bed, weddings and otherthings that happen afterwards
and, hello, it's because they'redemons attached to this stuff.
(16:32):
It's not just a practice.
If your child is actingdifferent after doing any sort
of yoga, perhaps you should lookat the yoga.
I mean this happened to me for alittle bit when my girls were
you know.
They did some yoga at theirschool for a little while until
I started learning more aboutthis and I was like, yeah, this
is bad, but I noticed some oddbehaviors coming from them not
(16:55):
to the extreme that I justmentioned, but they weren't
acting quite themselves.
So I just decided I'm going totell their school no yoga,
please.
And I explained to my girls whythey know that it's a fake God
worship.
That's basically what I toldthem, because they're young so
they know that and they telltheir teachers we can't do this,
(17:16):
this is fake God worship.
That.
And they tell their teachers wecan't do this, this is fake God
worship.
And it's fine.
I'm fine with them knowing thatand that they're carrying that
on and their understanding andit just.
It makes me angry that they'rejust putting this in the schools
like this is something that'sgoing to help kids or whatever,
but I think it's harming themtoo, and nobody is batting an
(17:37):
eye about it.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Well, I think we need to maybe see a bigger picture
here too that you know there is.
We're seeing a worldwide risein Luciferianism and, you know,
I think we need to recognizethat, we need to recognize the
global influence of a Luciferian, luciferic system and maybe
even come to see things like NewAge, mormonism, freemasonry,
(17:59):
any sequence societies, any ofthat things as different
denominations maybe ofLuciferianism and with that in
mind, we can recognize that thisis intentional.
You know they're evangelizing.
Well, it's not the good news.
What would the opposite of that?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
be Evangelizing, they're devangelizing.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
But that's what they're doing, know they?
They want our children.
I I looked into some a littlebit into, uh, after school satan
clubs and so forth, but whichare springing up all across the
country there's some around metoo, or where I live, you know
yeah, I, I saw, I saw a littlejingle recently, a little song.
It sounded so cute and neat andit had a baphomet symbol while
(18:41):
they were playing the song andit was about how Satan's not a
scary guy, satan's a good guyand a nice guy, and little kids
jingling.
So this is intentional.
It's intentional and of courseit is.
It's been intentional sinceGenesis 3, genesis 2, I think
Anyway, so probably.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
If we're going to talk about the elephant in the
room, we us too, I think, anyway, so probably if we're going to
talk about the elephant in theroom, Anna, we maybe ought to
talk about how there haveactually been attempts to
Christianize yoga, right Likethe praise moves, praise moves,
prayer moves, yes.
Oh my goodness, I loveChristians.
I understand what they thinkthey're trying to do with this.
(19:16):
I get the concept, what theythink they're trying to do with
this.
I get the concept, I completelyget the concept that we want to
try to redeem it.
But there's some things youjust can't redeem.
You know this is one of them.
The poses themselves areworshiping idols.
So how are you going to redeemthat if all you're doing is
switching the name and putting aBible verse on it, but you're
(19:39):
still doing the pose.
That's the problem.
Is the pose, not what it'scalled or whatever they explain
it as the problem is the pose,because that's the worship.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.
I think that any of yourlisteners who aren't familiar
with a little bit of theologicaldoctrinal lingo a term called
the regulative principleprobably should become familiar
with it.
At the time of the Reformation,when Martin Luther nailed his
95 Theses on the church door, itsparked the Protestant
Reformation, and what he wasattempting to accomplish there
wasn't to split from theCatholic Church, but he wanted
(20:14):
to have an internal debate withanother blowing up, and the
Protestant Reformation was born,thankfully.
But Luther it's understandablebecause he was a Catholic monk,
but he wanted to retain as muchas he could from Roman
Catholicism in corporate worship, as much of the liturgy as he
could.
That wasn't overtly evil andsinful.
Then later, reformers like JohnCalvin and others came along
(20:34):
and said well, you know what?
That's actually not going farenough.
We need to regulate corporateworship from Scripture alone,
from the New Testament alone.
So, in other words, if apractice is not directly
commanded by God, we shouldn'tdo it, and there's quite a stark
difference there.
And so what we see in thechurch today is what's often
called the normative principle.
If God hasn't forbidden it,therefore, it's okay.
(20:56):
That's why we have clowns andmimes and interpretive dance and
so forth in our services andall kinds of other weird stuff
that goes even farther than that.
But the regulative principlewould say no, actually it's not
okay to do things that Godhasn't commanded.
We have to stick with what hehas prescribed.
Let's get our definition ofcorporate worship from God's
word, and from God's word alone.
(21:16):
So that principle applies here.
If you take a, a Hindu practice, a practice that is actually
(21:46):
worship of the Hindu pantheon,as I'll read one of them, I'm
going to turn to 1 Kings,chapter 12, and I'm going to
read verses 28 through 33.
So 1 Kings 12, 28 through 33.
Okay, so the context here iswhen Solomon handed off the
kingdom to his son, rehoboam.
You know, solomon the wisestking had built the most foolish
(22:08):
king to succeed him, and therewas that split between the ten
tribes of Israel and the twotribes that remained under
Rehoboam, that would be Judahand Benjamin, and a man named
Jeroboam, son of Nebat, becameking of the ten tribes of Israel
.
So that's the context.
So, therefore, the king, that'sJeroboam, asked advice, made
two calves of gold and said tothe people it is too much for
(22:29):
you to go up to Jerusalem.
Here are your gods, o Israel,which brought you up from the
land of Egypt, and he set up onein Bethel and the other he put
in Dan.
Now this thing became a sin,for the people went to worship
before the one.
As far as Dan, he made shrinesin the high places and made
priests from every class ofpeople who were not of the sons
of Levi.
Jeroboam ordained a feast onthe fifteenth day of the eighth
(22:51):
month, like the feast that wasin Judah, and offered sacrifices
on the altar.
So he did at Bethel,sacrificing to the calves he had
made, and at Bethel heinstalled the priests of the
high places which he had made.
So he made offerings on thealtar which he had made at
Bethel on the 15th day of theeighth month in the months which
he had devised in his own heart.
And he ordained a feast for thechildren of Israel and offered
(23:13):
sacrifices on the altar andburned incense.
And that's not the only timethere were golden calves.
It was Exodus 32, when Moseswas up on Mount Sinai and Aaron
made a golden calf.
So in this case, here and inExodus 32, we don't have King
Jeroboam and Aaron in Exodussaying you know what?
Let's forget about the God ofAbraham, isaac and Jacob.
Let's turn our backs on Yahwehand turn to other gods.
(23:34):
That's not what happened ineither of these cases.
In both cases, they said thisis God, this is Yahweh, this is
the God who brought you out ofthe land of Egypt.
Let's just do it our own way.
In both cases here in 1 Kingsand also in Exodus 32, probably
more so in Exodus 32, the formof worship that was being
prescribed, the golden calf wassomething they were familiar
with.
(23:55):
Calf worship was prevalent inEgypt.
Egypt, for 400 years, came intothe world and they're saying
Moses is not coming down fromthe mountain.
We don't know what became ofhim.
Aaron, make us a god.
So we said okay, here is arepresentation of the true and
living God.
So he wasn't saying turn awayfrom God.
(24:15):
He was saying this is God, thisis the one who brought you out
of Egypt, and it's somethingthey were familiar with.
You're familiar with calfworship?
Okay, well, we'll make a calf,literally the same thing that's
being done in yoga.
You're retaining the outwardelements of the Hindu worship
and just try to Christianize it.
Okay, so we're going to gothrough the Virabhadrasana
(24:39):
warrior poses and we're notgoing to offer this as worship
to Virabhadra.
We're going to offer it asworship to Jesus instead.
Well, no, you're taking agolden calf and saying this is
the God who brought you out ofthe land of Egypt.
It's not.
The yoga, is not worship of theLord Jesus.
You can't do that.
You can't take the golden calfand say you know, this is the
true God.
No, it isn't.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Yeah, I agree.
What do you think about Christalignment cards're like
christian tarot cards or tarot.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I believe it's tarot is the correct term the whole
point of tarot cards is fortunetelling, divination, um, and, by
the way, it does seem to work.
You know you mentioned dorianvirtue, she, she and uh, the
other ladies on that otherpodcast.
They talk about that.
It works, same way that youknow psychic, so-called gifts
work.
You know there's a demonicrealm out there that can feed us
(25:29):
information.
But to take a tool ofdivination and divination and it
got a fortune telling isabsolutely, without question,
denounced as an absoluteabomination in the sight of God,
something that angers him.
To take that practice and totry to Christianize it, try to
put Christian symbols on thesecards, I mean that's like adding
insult to injury.
I think it's worse.
(25:49):
I think Christian tarot cardsare probably worse than the
non-Christian ones You're goingto try to involve, you're going
to try to wrap Jesus up in thissomehow, in this evil
fortune-telling divination.
It's horrible.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, divination, it's horrible, yeah, and I don't
know if the person who came upwith it is affiliated with
Bethel or Hillsong, but I knowBethel, I believe, has something
to do with these cards.
I don't see how any Christianwho's got their head on straight
, who's focused on God and hastheir Bible open all the time
(26:26):
and knows the word, can look atthese things and not say
something for one, and maybeeven be involved or just dismiss
it or say, oh, what's theproblem?
What's the harm?
They're trying to help people,but you're not helping people if
, like you said, divination isan abomination.
The Bible clearly says do notdo this.
(26:48):
So if you are doing it, guesswhat you're doing.
You're doing what, james?
What is it?
One, not one.
I don't remember specificallywhere it is, but it is one of my
favorite verses, james, I thinkit's.
I want to say 417, but I couldbe wrong.
You might know once I say it.
James says if you know what youought to do and you don't do it
(27:08):
, you're sinning.
I believe it's James 4, 17.
I could be wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
I'm not sure I'm familiar with the verse.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, but it's that's .
That's plain as day.
You're not supposed to dodivination, but you're doing
divination the Jesus way, oh,noesus way.
There's no jesus way to do whathe told you not to do yeah, no,
I oh yeah amen.
Um, like I said, I think it'salmost worse yeah, yeah, it is
(27:36):
because you're leading otherpeople astray, because then they
think that that's okay, thatit's not real demon worship,
it's.
It's okay, it's jesus.
It's like what I was sayingwhen I did my series on worship
music and how we need to becareful on what our worship
music is saying too and thevalues that are in that during
(27:56):
season two.
If you haven't listened to it,you should go listen to it.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I haven't, but I will .
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Example yeah.
Yeah, it's like.
This is a perfect example ofyou can't always just trust just
because someone says it'sChristian or I'm a Christian.
You have to look at the fruit.
You have to look at whatthey're promoting, whatever they
call it.
Where's the spiritual fruitthat's leading to God's glory?
(28:29):
It's non-existent, because youwere flat out doing something he
told you not to do.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Right, right.
Well, you mentioned Hillsongand Bethel Music and I haven't
looked into them a whole lot,but enough to satisfy me that I
think that there is somethingreally dark there.
In fact, I've seen what almostlook like witchcraft rituals
happening right on the stagesometimes.
Yeah, yeah, stuff to be takenseriously.
It shouldn't surprise us.
(28:56):
The Lord Jesus said the churchwould be infiltrated.
There will be wolves in sheep'sclothing.
In my ecclesiastical traditionthey limit that to false
teaching.
Now, false teaching certainlyis included in that.
Wolves in sheep's clothing areoften false teachers.
But I believe that Satan isclever enough to introduce
infiltration in other ways aswell.
I know one pastor who performedchurch in another state.
(29:17):
I'm not going to say any names,but I believe he's a ritual
attending Luciferian.
He came to a church and shutdown prayer, made all kinds of
changes.
That still teaches sounddoctrine, but I'm not going to
go into much detail.
Infiltration happens, I guess,in a lot of different ways.
I guess is my point.
We have to be on a guardagainst that.
That's what the Lord Jesuscommanded that we do, anyway.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Discernment.
We need to be in the Word.
If you aren't in the Word, youdon't know what God's telling
you.
You don't know what he's saying.
How are you going to know whatthe right things are?
And if you're not going tolisten to people who are in the
word, who are sharing the truth,like us, like other podcasters
who are doing the same thingwarning people about yoga, about
Christ alignment cards, angelcards, all these other things
(30:03):
that seem like they're the goodkind of magic, there is no good
kind of magic.
And for someone, especially aChristian, to tell you that,
that you can redeem these things, they don't have their biblical
facts correct and you shouldnot be following them.
You should not be listening ordoing what they're doing.
And if you are a young believerand you are listening to this
(30:27):
podcast right now, I am tellingyou that if someone is telling
you it's okay to do yoga, justcall it prayer moves, or do
prayer moves or all these otherthings, if you've come out of
the new age and people aretelling you to do these things,
don't listen to them, becausethey don't have the spirit of
God in them, because if they did, they would be reading their
Bibles and they would know thatthey should not be doing these
(30:49):
things, that there is noredeeming things that God has
blatantly said do not do.
They are abomination to me.
So I am telling you to stayaway from these practices and
people who are trying to get youto do them.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Well said, dear sister.
Thank you, Very well said dearsister, thank you.
Very well said, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
Well, there is so much more that could be said
about these things, but we aresadly out of time.
So, david, thank you so muchfor coming on today and sharing
this with us and sharing yourheart and your honesty, sharing
the Bible with us.
I mean, maybe people aren't inthe word, but now they've heard
(31:30):
the word, because you shared itboldly, and I pray that it would
affect people in a good way andthey would start turning from
these practices before they getsucked into something that could
ruin their lives, ruin theirafterlife when they go to their
final destination.
So thank you for coming on andtalking with me about this.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Amen Thank you for having me, anna, and thank you
for what you're doing and amento what you said about getting
in God's Word.
Right now I'm reading sixchapters a day and it takes me
about half an hour a day, andthat reads the Bible almost
twice in a year.
So it's not this insurmountablething to read God's Word.
Get into God's Word, read it,read it, read it, read it.
(32:13):
Amen, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
You're welcome, thank you.
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