Planting Seeds in a Savage Garden - With Chris Boise - HOOKED: Stories & Songs from Texas & Beyond with Susan Hickman

Episode Transcript
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Chris Boise (00:06):
We are good to start your show, ma'am, we are,
we are.

Susan Hickman (00:09):
Okay, so welcome to Hooked stories and songs from
Texas and beyond.
My name is Susan Hickman.
This is my guest of the weekfor the first episode ever of
Hooked Chris Boyes, ladies andgentlemen, hello, hello, ever
have hooked Chris Boyes, ladiesand gentlemen.

Hello, I am.
When I was approached I was soexcited because number one, it's
Susan freaking Hickman right.

You make me sound like I was like hiding behind a
tree, going like, hey, chris,come here.

Like I bagged him and like took him off and was
like hey, you got to do this.
You know where my address?
I mean, you know where I liveAnyway, no man.
So she kind of threw it at meand I was like, absolutely 100%
times.
Yes, I am thankful to be here,I'm humbled to be here and I
appreciate the vote ofconfidence to come on and be
your first guest on what I thinkis going to be a very
successful journey for you.

I hope so.
So I've wanted to do a showvery much like this.
We don't know what this isgoing to turn into, but I've
wanted to do this for like 15years.

You're doing it, we're here, we made it.

I feel like this is the maiden voyage and a lot
of mistakes are going to happen,a lot of like feet in our mouth
and all the things, but I'mglad that all of y'all are here.

Yes, thank you.

And we're excited so y'all are here.
Yes, thank you, and we'reexcited so y'all give it up for
my very first guest, chris Boyes.
So originally so.
I know you from Katy Texas, butis that where you grew up or is
that where you're from?

That is a very long , convoluted story, convoluted.
So I was yes, good word, satword.
I was born here in Houston andthen, when I was 10 years old,
my parents which are right herethey ended up my dad ended up
getting transferred to Atlanta,georgia.
So when I was 10, we moved toGeorgia and while I was there,
became a drummer first, got adrum set when I was probably 10

(01:58):
or 11.
And that's where I started.
And, of course, my dad.
I can't talk about my journeywithout talking about my dad's,
because he was a very well-knownsinger here in Houston.
He was a part of a duo calledBoyce and Kramer.
If you had ever been aroundthis area, blyce is how he
spelled his last name on stage.
He did a lot of really coolthings and kind of laid a path.

(02:21):
The accomplishments they'renever ending.
But I mean he played bassguitar for Liza Minnelli, was on
the Ed Sullivan Show, was onthe same record label as Jimi
Hendrix, I mean just the listgoes on and on, and so when I
was a kid, you know, kind ofcoming into being in a musical
family, I think they had an ideathat I would probably get into

(02:43):
music and honestly I think atone point or another he said
that he didn't want me to getinto music because he understood
what this life could look like.
And so when my journey startedwith drums, I was ADHD as a
child and still am, probably andso you know, drums was kind of
a way for me to kind of reign inthe ADHD-ness and did that for

(03:05):
a long time and then kind ofrealized as I got a little bit
older that I could sing a littlebit and there was I don't know
if I'd call it talent, butwhatever that was Got to do that
started playing guitar becausemy dad and my best friend did
and I couldn't and it pissed meoff.
So I learned and then it justkind of all snowballed into this
whole thing where I wrote songsand then I recorded records and

(03:26):
then I got to do really coolstuff.
But it all started kind of withmy family and just that lineage
of coming from that and havingthat in the blood and then
obviously God seeing it fit togive me the ability to go do it.
But I'm here now.
I moved back in 2010.
Just moved to the Lamarck area,texas City area, literally in
January Neighbor yeah, we'reneighbors now, and so this is

(03:47):
kind of a new voyage for me too.

That's so exciting.
So I remember when I first metyou, I met you and Katie, and I
think I met you because weneeded a drummer.

You did.

And I think it was like a Girls with Guitars
thing.

I think it was Mandy Powell.

And Presley Lewis and.

Presley, lewis and you, and I don't know if Heather
was a part of that she wasn't,but Mandy was the one who
reached out to me.
I guess she knew me because shehad seen me.
So Mandy was the one whoreached out and I don't remember
what we played.

Mandy Powell.
She's another awesomesinger-songwriter.

Singer-songwriter yeah, Look, yeah.
So I think that's where I metall of you guys.
Was that playing drums for youguys?

Yeah, and it was very cool.
So he called us all over to hishouse.
We're like what is this goingto be?
Like Dude I've never met, buthe was there, his wife was there
and it was so cool and it'scool that that was probably what
.

15 years ago.
Yeah, probably.

Yeah, and we've done all kinds of shows since
then, like really, really funstuff.

Yeah, I mean, if you look at where our music
scene kind of was then to whereit is now, you kind of grow up
with everybody right, it'salmost like there's a maturation
there and you see everybodykind of grow up and mature in
their songwriting and theirentertainment ability and the
opportunities that come to them,and so I mean you have had some

(05:13):
amazing opportunities lately.
I have to say congratulationson your voice, on being on the
Voice.

Thank you.

So that was very cool.
And then all of the successthat you've had here in Houston,
guy.
I mean you're incredible.
Like I said, I'm just I'mblessed to be here and I'm just
I'm thankful to share the stagewith somebody who's just
extremely talented.

Well, thank you, I guess I picked the right.
I picked the right first guest.

I'm not being paid to be here, by the way.
I'm not being paid to be here,I'm getting free drinks.
That's it, oh my gosh.

No, seriously, it's cool and it's cool to see
your friends progress in theindustry too, right, it's
amazing to see where you startoff and you meet each other and
you swap stories and you swapsongs and you're like, hey, what
do you do about this or what doyou do about that?
And it's like we've had a lotof of talks, as we all have, and

(06:04):
that's kind of the reason why Iwanted to start cultivating
this, I don't know.
Start the conversation and gety'all like involved, and we do
have a.
We have a live studio audiencetoday here at Cocos on the Canal
.
Y'all, make some noise foryourselves.

Yeah.

You, beautiful people, you.

So I have a question for you.
Yeah, okay, and this is.
I think this is a great way toget into question and answers
and obviously, please, if you'vegot questions, you can shout
them out.
But I think my question to youis what was the defining moment
in your music journey where yousaid I'm hooked?
This is it I'm hooked.

Look at you See what I did there.
Look at you See what I didthere they call that a segue.
It is a segue.
So, oh man, I have a couple ofinstances throughout my life, my
young life, where I was like Ihave to do this.
So the first one where I waslike this is a defining moment

(07:05):
in my life.
I saw leanne rhymes on like anaward show.
It was like one of the likethis acmas or like cmt awards or
something grammys I don't thinkit was the grammys, um, but
she's saying unchained melodyand I think I was like 11 or 12
years old and that night night Itold my parents I was like this

(07:26):
is what I have to do for therest of my life.
And they're like oh, okay,because they were not musical,
like at least like your parentsthey were able to like kind of.
I don't know.
You could ask questions maybe.

I don't know, like I don't know how that works.

I've asked questions for sure, but my
parents had absolutely no ideawhatsoever.
So my mom, her response waswell, show me that you're
serious.
And it was literally the firsttime that I'd ever been fully
like 100% serious in my wholelife about pursuing an actual
career.
And so for me to tell myparents that I was serious, it

(08:02):
was me getting in the phone book.
When Y'all remember phone books, yeah.

That thick.

Yeah, I'm going to be 40 this year, so I feel
like I can talk about phonebooks Anyway.
But yeah, I was like I got inthe phone book.
I made a ton of appointmentswith some dead-end music talent
agency people, which I'm notgoing to name any of them right
now oh yeah but, um, yeah, itstarted with that.

(08:31):
And then I brought the list tomy mom the next morning and I
was like this is what we'regonna do.
And she's like, wow, okay, andthat's that's kind of where it
began.
I mean, it began with me, likeyou know, I played piano at five
and violin and blah, blah, blah, you know.
But that's where it was likethe aha moment, like she's 12.
Leanne Rimes is 12 years oldand I was.

(08:53):
No, she was, I was 12.
She was 14.
So she's like just a little bitolder than me.

I didn't realize she was that young when she did
it.

Yeah, 14 years old, and it was like that aha
moment where I was like thatcould be me, right there.

Just make it happen .
I think mine.
So there was a defining momentin my life where my parents had
a very serious conversation withme.
I had decided that I was goingto play drums, but I was also
going to do thesinger-songwriter thing play
cover music, just play coversongs.
And I was playing at.
I might have been 19 years oldand I was playing at this local

(09:33):
watering hole in Noonan, georgia, called the Twilight, and so
the Twilight was literally thesquare footage is maybe the size
of your kitchen, like athousand square footage is maybe
the size of your kitchen.
Ah, like 1,000 square feet.
Maybe it was tiny, but it usedto be an old driving range that
they converted into a bar andthen like a live music venue,
and anybody who was anybody wasplaying at the Twilight.

(09:56):
And so my folks were friendswith the owners and they said,
hey, chris is starting to kindof wanting to get out there and
play some music and play somesongs for people.
Would it be okay if he comes inon like a thursday and just
just play?
So they bought me a pa.
I had an old custom pa like the.
You know, you remember those?

(10:16):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Had that sounded like soundedlike absolute dog boo-boo, uh.
But so I go in there and and Istarted to kind of play and of
course everybody was really niceand they were throwing tips in
the jar to be nice.
I was terrible, like I wasreally, really bad.

That's what I feel about myself.

Like I was really really bad, Don't listen to me,
no, no.
It was really, really bad.
So I did this for a couple ofweeks and it kind of became a
normal thing for me.
But my parents stopped going.
They stopped coming to see me,and so I was, I think.
I asked them.
I was like, why are you guysnot coming?
And my mom was very frank shegoes.
You suck, you're terrible towatch.

(10:52):
I was like you know, I'm 19years old, thinking I'm like the
shit and I'm not.
And so she, we have thisconversation and she's like I
had this big like gray binderthat had all my songs in.
And she's like I had this biglike gray binder that had all my
songs in.
And she was like you gotta losethe binder.
Okay, I'll learn the words,yeah.
And then you know, like you hadto get better with an audience,

(11:14):
right, so you had to learn howto talk to an audience and it
was like it was like thatperennial moment where I was
just like, oh crap, I have toactually worked at this.
This sucks.

I have a question about that.
Okay, so were you.
You said you have to talk to anaudience.
Were you just like terrible attalking to?

the audience.
Oh god, like, like.
Just this is me like no eyecontact.

I was never never .

I mean, the thought of looking an audience in the
eye like at 19 years old isterrifying, and the thing is
that for those of you who'venever done this right, so for
those of you who've never beenin our shoes and never had the
honor of getting on stage andentertaining people, there is
nothing more scary than standingup there by yourself with a

(11:59):
guitar and trying to entertainpeople that don't know you okay.

And keep in mind playing songs.
That's the easy part.

Playing the songs is the easy part.

We're actually pretty okay at that.

I'm not.
Well, you are, I'm not.

No, you are good, you're very good.

But honestly, the thing is that it's so gratifying
when you guys being here andbeing a part of this is super
gratifying for her because thisis her show, but it's gratifying
for me because you don't knowme from Adam right, You're
listening to me tell storiesabout, like an obscure childhood
that you don't know anythingabout.
So the fact that I get to talkto you as though I've known you

(12:35):
for 20 years, it's really cool.
And this 20 years ago I was notdoing this.
There was no way I was going tosit up here in front of you
guys and have a candidconversation about my life and
where my shortfalls were and myshortcomings, and talked about
where I needed to progress andget better.
I was never having thatconversation.
So what I can say is thatthrough that hard conversation

(12:56):
with my parents, I learned avery valuable lesson, and it
really was.
That moment was like okay, I'mgoing to take this seriously,
I'm going to get better at thisand I want it like, from that
point on, when I walked into aroom and I was going to be
singing in a room full ofsingers, I wanted to be better
than everybody.
I wanted to walk in with thementality is that they're going
to remember my name when I'mdone?
Right, yes, yes, yes Thank youfor listening to my diatribe.

(13:20):
This is my TED talk.
You're free to go.

No, but I really resonate with that because but I
also so like growing up throughthe industry and still it's
still something that I thinkabout every day.
It's like I don't want to bethe one yes, I do want to be the
one in the room that knows themost.
Sure, that's what we all aspireto, but, like I want to learn
from everybody Now.

I do.
Now I'm of the mindset that nowI want to learn from everybody.
Now I do.
Now.
I'm of the mindset that now Iwant to learn In my 20s.
I didn't care, I just wanted tobe the best in the room, right?
I walked in thinking I'm goingto kick your ass, You're going
to know my name by the time I'mdone.
And then when I got to my 30s,I was like, okay, there are
people that are really betterthan me.
I have to learn from thesepeople, right?

I think I really recognize that in my 30s too,
because how old are you?
We can talk about it.
I told you how old I was.

I am almost 40.

So am I Wait.
When's your birthday?
Are we both July?

No, my birthday was St Patrick's Day.
I turned 39 on St Patrick's Day.
But here's the thing aboutturning 39.
Thank you.
Here's the thing about turning39.
You are no longer in your 30s,no, you're just almost 40.
Yeah, that's it.

I've been saying I'll be 40 next year or my next
birthday, and all the things forlike a year, because I'm
preparing myself for the factthat.

I'm going to be able.
I'm almost 40.

Yeah, I'm going to have to tell people
eventually.

Staring it in the face.

I'm 40 years old Because when I turned 30, the
whole year before 29 and all thethings I had a problem with
turning 30.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
I cried.

Oh sweet, I cried.

Yeah, I cried.
I was like I have to accomplishall.
I had a laundry list and keepin mind being in the music
industry.
It's tough enough as it is.
Yeah, and I'm not going gonnagive you the sob story exactly
what you're gonna say but beinga girl in this industry, it they
have taught us that we have anexpiration date and we

(15:15):
absolutely do not.
I don't believe that anymore atall, whether it's the music
industry or anything.
I mean heck, you could be afreaking supermodel at 75 years
old, bet Go women.
Come on, go, no.
So I say that to be like I'mreally excited to turn 40.

(15:35):
Because I'm really proud of theaccomplishments that I've made
and I've got still a ton ofstuff to do.
But at least I don't feel likeI have this date that I have to
accomplish everything by,because I don't remember.
I don't remember where thisepiphany started, but I had.
I had this like idea manifestin my head one day.

(15:58):
I was like here's the thingExpectations ruin everything,
right, like you.
You you think, oh, my life issupposed to go like this.
It doesn't turn out quite likethis.
Oh, I'm disappointed, bam,you're sad, you're depressed,
you're whatever.
If you put it more in aperspective like I want to reach

(16:19):
these certain things and I'mgoing to do these certain things
, and I don't even want to callthem goals, because sometimes,
when you set goals that are sounrealistic and you don't reach
them in the point of you know,or the amount of time that you
set for yourself, you come uplike such a lie down.
Yeah yeah, you feel like afailure.
So I feel like do the littlethings and just keep moving

(16:42):
forward and be really, really,really celebratory about the
accomplishments that you do makealong the way, even the little
tiny ones, because those are theones that are going to get you
to the bigger picture.

Couldn't agree more .

Yeah.

Does anybody have any questions for Susan or
myself just out there?
I mean, since we're here, we'rekind of having a roundtable
discussion.

And if you don't want to shout them out, I've got
some index cards if you want topass those out.

She literally thought of everything.

I mean not everything, but I've thought of
some things.
But if you want to pass themout, write your name and your
phone number and your emailaddress so we can stalk you
later.
Make sure that you come toevery taping here at Coco's on
the Canal.
I do want to throw that outthere as well.

(17:29):
We're going to be here everyTuesday at 7 pm.
I know we started a little bitlate today, but that's okay,
because this is the maidenvoyage, but we want to see all
of you guys and we want to growthis thing and my hope and my
dream and my I'm not going tocall it a goal.
I'm not going to call it a goal.
My want and my heart's desirefor this show is to cultivate

(17:50):
the relationships that I'vebuilt along the way.
I've been doing this almost 26years, which is really scary,
but again, it's anaccomplishment and I want to
showcase.
We don't have anything likethis down here, nothing.
We don't have songwriter nights, we don't have writing rooms,
we don't have this kind ofinteraction.

(18:10):
So the fact that y'all all arehere, thank you and we love
Coco's on the Canal forbelieving in this.

Yes, thank you to them for sure.
Please get yourself a drink.
Take care of your bar staff.

And they're amazing.
No-transcript.

How do you project it?
You're talking about writing it.

Yeah, when you get an idea for a song.
So when we get an idea for asong, how?

do we project it?

How do we project it?
How does it?

become a song.
You want to take this.

I think you should take this one.
You're the guest, repeat thequestion real.

So repeat the question.
So the question the question isis that when, when we, when we
get inspired for a song, right?
So when we sit down and say I'mgoing to write this song, how
do we pretty much, what is themindset of creating that song
and then putting music to it orwhatever that looks like?
So for me personally, I haven'twritten anything in a while,
and the reason for that is isthat my life has kind of just

(19:21):
been this just nonstop.
I kind of got picked up in atribute world and I have two
little girls and I've got a wifeand I need to be a dad and the
whole thing.
But when I was writing songsespecially younger, because I
was a musician first I wouldalways write the music first.
There was something like, if Iknew that I wanted to saw like a
lot of my old songs are aboutpast relationships, and even one

(19:44):
of my favorite songs I'll talkabout Dreams, one of my favorite
songs, and I'll play it here ina minute.
I wrote this song because I wasdating a girl who lived here I
lived in Georgia, okay and so Ithought I knew that I wanted it
to be emotional in the way thatit came across musically.
So for those of you that are inthe music biz, anything in a
minor key is emotional.

(20:05):
It usually is.
It usually carries a lot ofweight.
You know, in me being a drummer, first I always thought about
what I wanted the drums to do.
As I was writing a guitar riffand, as you'll see, when I play
the song, it's a very rhythmicsong.
The way that I play it is veryrhythmic, because that was the
first thing I thought of.
So I knew that I wanted thissong to kind of have that

(20:26):
emotional driving feel to it.
And then, when it came to thelyrics, like any songwriter, you
try to be as relatable aspossible about what you're
writing about, right?
So for me, this song was abouta girl that I was dating here.
I was in Georgia, and the onething that was common about
being in that relationship wasthat we didn't necessarily have

(20:46):
FaceTime at that point.
You had Skype, but it was kindof weird and like you know.
So the one thing you do have isyour dreams, right?
And so I wrote.
The reason I wrote the song wasbecause I felt that was very
relatable for people who are inlong-distance relationships
where you can see that person inyour dreams.
That's the closest you're goingto be to them without actually

(21:07):
being there with them.
And so the way that I kind ofwrote the verses and the
choruses is what you know it'syou basically just kind of build
the relationship up as it wasat least in my mind how it
looked, how it felt to be awayfrom that person, and then in
the chorus you're basicallysaying I see you in my dreams,

(21:29):
this is where I'm at, and thenat the end of the song, of
course, there's a happy endingwhere you're now together and
you no longer have to dream.
So the maturation of that songfor me was really it started
with music drums, basicallybecause that was what I
gravitated towards when I wasyounger, and then I realized
that I wanted it to be emotional.
I knew that I wanted it to havea very driving center, and then

(21:54):
I realized that I wanted it tohave a little bit of a rock
element, because that's alsosomething that I liked at the
time.
The lyrics were totallysecondary.
I didn't have them written.
I literally wrote the song asmusic and then wrote the lyrics
secondary, because I wanted tofit the pieces how they were.
Do you think that's normal it?

is not.
It's not normal, no.

I am so different from probably anybody you'll
ever see on this show Likeliterally.
I'm so different from probablyanybody you'll ever see on this
show like literally, I'm sodifferent.
Most people do lyrics first andthen, especially if you're
writing with somebody or you'reyou're, you know you're you're,
thank you, I I look, words arehard sometimes.
Um, when, when you'recollaborating with someone else,
a lot of times they'll they'llhave a particular guitar, like

(22:36):
guitar part that they've beenplaying with.
They're like oh that, oh,that's going to sound good here.
For me, it was completelydifferent.
I wrote this song and it wasmusic first and then lyrics, and
I just made it fit.
So it was cool.
If you don't mind, can I playit for you?
Do you guys care?

Yes, I was literally just about to say he
does have his guitar and it'sgoing to sound amazing, and this
is actually one of the onesthat I noted.
I even made notes, y'all, and Ihaven't even looked at them
this whole time, but this is oneof the ones that I wanted to
know the story behind.
So that's really cool.
It's like he reads minds orsomething.
I love that.

All right, I am going to try not to spill my
drink because that would be bad.
All right, this song's calledDreams, dreams.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
It's coming of the season, he can feel the cold air
.
She is the reason that's whyhe's still here.
Oh, you know that he's introuble when she's not around.
Oh, you know he sees her doublewhen he dreams about the love

(24:12):
they made on a cold winter night, the feelings I shared With her
until tonight.
What's she gonna dream abouttonight?
She puts on her makeup.

(24:51):
There's no one around.
She can't ever wonder what he'sdoing now.
Oh, you know she wants to benear him.
She can't quite reach.
Oh, you know she wants to feelhim.
So instead she dreams she staysin his kiss On a little more

(25:16):
than sunrise.
She's safe, saving his arms.
Yes, she's on tight.
What's she gonna dream abouttonight?
This isn't a dream, but a dreamcome true.

(25:47):
You've made this a reality.
Now I have you, a tasty kiss.
Now I have you.
I'm tasting your kiss On thedawn and sunrise.
You're saving my arms.

(26:10):
Yeah, it feels so right.
We don't have to dream tonight.
Oh no, oh no.
Thank you very much.

(26:49):
One of my own cold dreams.

I love that so much.
So when did you write that?
What year was that?

See, now we're getting into nitty-gritty.
I wrote that in.
I moved back in 2010, so Iwrote it in probably 2007 or 8.
It was literally the titletrack off my very first record,
which is available on iTunes andAmazon and Spotify and all your
online retailers.

And I'm going to get all of that stuff from you.
We're going to cite all of thatand so like you're going to
have access to all of that, soyou can.

So yeah, to probably 2007, 2008,.
I was literally.
She was living here and justkind of at a weird place because
I was traveling back and forth.
I was funny enough, I wasactually a radio DJ.
That's when I was a DJ, and soI was actually a radio DJ.
That's when I was a DJ and so Iwas working for a radio station
.

I was doing radio there, and then that was like
funding my trips to Houston, Ihear that, yeah, so, yeah,
that's crazy.
Yeah, so when did you actuallystart writing?
Like, when did you write yourfirst song?

Ooh, probably 2005.
I was probably 18.
Yeah, I don't know.
Well, I say that.
So I was a part of thesongwriting process on a couple
different things that weren'tnecessarily mine, and that was
just through high school,because I was like in a high
school Christian band and we hada couple songs that we actually

(28:16):
cut.
But I was in the writingprocess on that.
But my very first song wasprobably written in 2000,.
Yeah, probably 2005.

It's weird to talk about that, right, like
when you started, versus likeyou know how the progression,
like I started writing stories,like little books.
I made them myself, Like it'sreally interesting and I wanted
to write books first and then Iwould write these stories and

(28:46):
you know I would sing songs andwrite songs, but I just didn't
think that that was a thing andit was just unattainable.
Right, like you know, we talkedabout the Leanne Rimes moment
for me, like when you actuallythought it was like that was it,
like what was like?
What was that for you?
Like who was that?
Or what was it?
Or like did you have anepiphany?

or like um, honestly, I think, because of
the household that I grew up in,I didn't have an idol other
than my dad.
I mean that truthfully.
It's very cool living in ahousehold with somebody like
that, because I think the easyanswer would have been George

(29:31):
Strait or Garth Brooks.
Of course I love those artistsand love songs from those
artists, but just knowing whatmy dad did was kind of like the.
I wanted to be just like himwhen I was a kid, when I was
eight and nine, that's what Iwanted to be.
It never really went into aparticular artist that was an

(29:56):
icon for me.
It was never that.
I had just, you know, I had mydad and he was doing it and I
would see pictures and it waslike, you know, I knew that he
was a big deal and that was whatwas.
That was in my life.
I didn't care about the bigstars.
That was my big star.

I think that's so cool, because so many kids and
young people they want to dosomething that's so polar
opposite than what their parentsdo, you know, because they just
want to, you know.

Don't get me wrong.
My parents wanted to kick myass on multiple occasions Like
let's not get it twisted, Minetoo, my poor parents, oh, my
gosh.
Still do, I'm sure.

Like my mom was musical but like she never
really like pursued, like shenever really pursued a singing
career or really active on aninstrument.
My dad will say that he's tonedeaf.
He's not tone deaf.
He knows what good music soundslike and he knows he's the
biggest music fan and he's mybiggest fan, which I love.
But it was so foreign to themthey had absolutely no idea.

(30:57):
I said it before, but I thinkit's just really cool that
you're able to have that and atleast have some of that guidance
you know.

Yeah, and I think the guidance part is there was a
lot of tough love there.

Oh, mine too, Don't get me wrong, mine too, my
mom.

You should hear the story about when I decided to
move to Houston.
That was rough, you know.
So being a drummer, first stuffwas booked for me.
You know, like people told mewhere to be, like, where to go,
and of course my parents were atalmost all of my shows, and so
you know, being a drummer it's alittle bit different than being

(31:36):
a lead singer, because you know, if you assimilate into a band
you're kind of told where to go,where to be, what you're
getting paid, and then you jumpinto this world, what we do, and
a lot of times we're in chargeof our own booking, right.

For sure.

And so that's the part that I was lucky because I
had those conversations.
Like you know, my dad wouldtell me how the horror story is
about booking, and so going inand doing the original thing and
getting better at it and moremature at it was okay.
Now I have to deal with thebooking side of it.
As somebody who's coming up inour industry and who doesn't
really have that lineage or thatsoundboard or support system,

(32:11):
that hits you like a sack ofbricks.
It's a different world in whatwe do trying to get places.
You go in, you walk into aplace.
You a different world in whatwe do trying to get places Like
you go in, you walk into a place.
You're like, hey, I've got thisreally great band and these
places are like, yeah, so doesthe guy down the street.

And 4,000 other people.

Yeah, and that's the thing and that's kind of
that's shell shocking when youdon't have that advice going in.

So when did you like?
Okay, I want to know, when didyou walk in to your first venue
and just say give me a job.
Like, not an email, not a text,not a MySpace message, because
I know that you're old enough toknow what that is.

Tom was my friend.

Tom was my friend .

Tom was my friend.

I remember mine.
That's the reason like itsticks out real.

My parents will remember.

I don't necessarily remember.

Well, let's ask them.
They are here.
So what was that for me?
Oh, I remember Evans, well, andask for a job, okay.
So I think yeah, so I did walkinto Evans Music City and ask
for a job, but I think she'stalking about the first time you
ever walked in with a guitarand said, hey, let me see, yeah,
let me Probably the twilight.
But then again, I moved here in2010 and didn't know anybody

(33:28):
and just kind of had to make itwork and thankfully I had met a
friend of mine named Ronnie, whowas pretty well connected in
the bar scene and so he would goto a pool night every wednesday
night at a place off of highwaysix and he's like, hey, they're
gonna start doing live music,they'll pay us 150 dollars total
and buy our beer.
And I was like, yeah, all right, I can eat this week this is

(33:49):
great and back then that wasmaking it yeah, man, 75, like 75
dollars.
I you know what jack in the boxtacos were a major food group in
my life when I was in my 20s.
Well, funny enough, they stillare.

I mean, it is what it is, but that was
probably it.

I mean making $150 between the two of us and then
sometimes you walk away with $20in tips.
Sometimes it was another $150.

I know it's crazy to think about that.
I remember mine.
I was 16 years old and I'd beenplaying for and I say playing,
I count how long I've been inthe music business as how long
I've been making money.
My first gig was I made $14.

$14 whole American dollars $14.
Wow.

Thank you very much.
I didn't even pay taxes on it.
The IRS is probably watching Imean it's going to be worldwide
no tax on tips, but yeah, now,now, Thank you.
Thank you, Donald Trump.
No, but I remember the firsttime that I ever walked in

(34:58):
physically myself and it wasn'tmy mom doing my bookings, which
she did God love her.
She was amazing.
When I told her that this iswhat I wanted to do, she was
like we're going to go to thelibrary and we're going to read
every book that we can find onthe music business, Did you
really?

Yeah, you went to the library yeah, see, I
couldn't read.
Yeah, you went to the libraryyeah, see, I couldn't read.

That was my problem.
We went to the library andlegit, like she's like, if I'm
reading this stuff, you'rereading this stuff.
So I put my nancy dre booksaway for real and I like I read
contracts and so much of thatstuff doesn't even apply anymore
.
But the fact that she taught methe discipline to learn and how
to do it as a business, andthank you, mom, thank you that's

(35:44):
huge yes, but um, the firsttime that I ever walked into a
venue it was Moe's place,because I know from all the
people that Moe's place was theto play and, by the way, I'm
going to be playing there nextweek.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Atta girl On a weekend yeah Good for you.

I play there every couple months or so.

They won't book me anymore.

Oh well, we won't talk about that, Because Mo is
going to listen to this.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Okay, atta girl.

Yeah, but I walked in and I saw Mo and I was
like hi, mr Mo, I'm 16-year-old, susan Hickman, and I have a
music career, and here's my CD.

I'm a total badass.

I made my own press kits.
I made my own folders with myface on them.
It was embarrassing.
It was so bad.

Can I please have?
Do you have any of thosefolders left?

I do, do you really?

I want one.
Do you have any of thosefolders left?
I do actually.

Do you really?
I want one please.
I'm moving right now.
I have a box of them that likehaven't seen the light of day in
like 20, 25 years.

You know what?
I'm gonna use your folder as mypress kit.
I'm gonna walk in and be likethis is Susan Hickman's face,
but bam, it has my space on it.
Oh heck, yeah, it legit, doesthat's good, yeah.

But I walked up to him and I was like I want a
gig and bless this man's heart.
I have a lot of respect for theman, I really do, because he
told me he took the folder andhe legit opened it.
He read some.
He looked at everything that Ihad.
I had lots of things in there.

(37:18):
Some he looked at alleverything that I had.
I had lots of things in there.
And he and he looked at me andhe gave he kind of gave me a
little side hug and he goes.
Thank you, miss Hickman, forgiving me this.
I'm gonna keep this and I'mgoing to say not right now.
And so from that point on it'slike I don't know.
As I tell these stories theybecome like these epiphanies.

Yeah, it's like a bigger thing.

I took no as not right now, and that has carried
me through where I'm sittingtoday.
If somebody tells me no, it'slike but does it really mean no,
it just means it's not theright time or it's not the right
.

If you've ever been in any salesman class, that is
exactly what they teach.

Really.

Yes, that is literally the number one rule in
sales is no means not right now.

Okay, well.

So that was a killer lesson to learn at 16
years old.

So you're saying I could be a salesman.

And for context.
Okay, so most place saying Icould be a salesman.

And for context.
Okay so Mosplace and I had aweird I'm going to put this Tell
the story, so I'm putting thisin the universe.

So Mosplace and I I played Mosplace for a long time
and I was a weekday band forthem.
I played on Thursdays a lot andI always was trying to beg for
a Friday and Saturday because Ithought I thought I was good
enough.
I thought my band was goodenough and I I had a
relationship with Mo.
Mo knew my wife like there wasjust a lot there.

(38:43):
And so at some point I don'tremember at some point things
got sideways because he askedfor a promo picture and there
was a picture of me at theRustic downtown which has this
big Rustic in lights right andyou couldn't see the whole name
but you could tell that it wasthe Rustic.
And so I gave him this promopicture and he went to his son,

(39:06):
moe Jr, and said well, why isthe Rustic logo in there?
And they went to me and I saidit's just half.
I said it's just half.
I said it's just a greatpicture.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean toruffle any feathers.
And so we changed the promo out.
I played that show and then Igot ghosted for about three
years oh man.

(39:27):
So COVID happens, 2020 happens,and there was a private event
and I was being salty at themoment but pretty much they were
having a private event in 2020and a friend of I don't remember
who it was, but a friend,somebody we knew, was playing
there and I said it must be niceto get a call from Mo on their
Facebook page, which was stupid.

Oh, no it was really dumb.

It was really dumb, I was salty and so and so then
it really then it really kind ofkicked off.
And so about four years later,five years later, I go in and I
corner Mo and Mo Jr and I saidyou know what?
I was the bigger person.
I said you know what?
I owe you guys an apology.
I was young, I had an ego andI'm really sorry that I put that

(40:10):
out there.
And I said, if you'll have me,I would love to come back.
And they said, oh yeah, we'llthink about it.
And then they just never calledme.
So if Mo sees this, if Mo andMo Jr see this, please know that
I am incredibly sorry for thestupid shit that I said when I
was 27.
I'm 39 now, by the way, butreally I'm so proud of you for

(40:32):
playing most plays because itreally is such a massive place,
even still for Katie For sure.
All the greats have played thatstage.
I've played that stage one timeand it really is.
There is something about thatplace that is really pretty
magical.
And I was salty and I showed mybutt and I apologize for that.
I try to be a better human thanthat these days.

(40:52):
I really do so for context.
That's my story about Mo'splace.

But you know what , sometimes getting that out
into the ether and you neverknow who's going to see it and
hear it.

You never know.
I might get a call, you neverknow.

We love you.

We really do.

I mean it is a really special place.
But I do appreciate the factthat he didn't just tell me no,
you little peon of a newbie goaway.
And what was even more specialabout that is that the first
time that I ever came and Iplayed there, he remembered he
was reciting to me what wasactually like what I recall

(41:34):
happening and I was like, wow,that was actually like what I
recall happening.
And I was like, wow, that'sactually really pretty special.

So that leads me to this question for you.

Yes.

And, moving on from most plays, give me two your
most favorite venue that you'veever played, ooh, okay, and then
your most favorite Coco's onthe canal.
And then your most favoriteshow you've ever played, oh Okay
, and then your most favoriteCoco's on the canal.

And then your most favorite show you've ever
played oh man, they can be thesame or they can be different.

So let's start with venue.
What's your most favorite venuethat you've ever played?

This is really hard, because I can't.

See, I came prepared.

See, I did not, See, I did not.
I was the one supposed to beasking all the questions.

Okay, so here's what I'll do.
I'll say mine.

Okay, yeah, so I'll say mine.

Okay, so I mentioned and I kind of teased,
that I'm in the tribute world.
I do.

Oh yes, Tell them about this.

Please don't laugh.
You can laugh at me, I don'tcare.

Hey, you know what?
He's actually a really gooddude, okay.
I have more to say, but whathe's going to say.

So three years ago, the universe put it in my life
that I was to do a Luke Bryantribute.
Okay, my mom had something todo with it.
A lot of people told me that Ishould, and so I ran with it.
Okay, there is like you eitherlove Luke Bryan or you hate Luke
Bryan.
I get it.
I totally get it.
In all of this, what happens isthat we scrounge up some money,

(43:01):
we have a promo video shot andthen I get a message from
somebody named Paul Wenzel who'sin Chicago, illinois, and he
runs what's called the Icons ofCountry Music.
What this is is it's a tributeshow where there's three tribute
artists in one night Same bandbut three different artists.
So he like and tell me, youknow exactly where I'm going

(43:22):
here.
But have you ever had thosepeople that like?
They either message you onFacebook or they'll come to a
show and they're like I can dosomething for you.
No-transcript.

(43:56):
It's his Toby Keith tribute, Ithink.
So it's called man of America.
It really is fantastic, Anyway.
So he's the lead singer of thatand he's also the manager of
the Icons of Country Music.
So he sends me a message and hesays hey.
He says you know, this is whatI'm doing.
I saw your Luke Bryan promo.
I'd like to talk to you.
And I said, okay, you know,like again we've seen these

(44:18):
people.
They never come through.
So we schedule a call.
He ends up calling me.
We have this conversation.
He's like I have two showsright now.
I'll pay for your flight, yourhotel, your car.
And I'm like what does it pay?
And he told me what it paid.
I was like, oh okay.
So I was like I need to, I needto go through my wife here.
So I go and have a conversationwith my wife.
We kind of talked through it.
And she goes okay, yeah, I mean, if it's real, do it.

(44:41):
So I call him back and I saidI'm, I'm good, like I want to
try this.
Within 20 minutes I had a hotelbooked, I had a flight booked
and I had a car booked.
And in my email and I was like,holy crap, this is real, this
is real.
So, um, it was about two monthsuntil I fly up.
I go up there, I play the shows, I meet the band, they have

(45:02):
rehearsals and it was like thecoolest people.
For number one.
I did not realize in chicago,illinois, they were so starved
for country music.
They love it, they absolutelylove it, I promise you it's.
It's wild to me, but and soit's wild to me, and so it leads
me to talk about my favoritevenue that I've ever played.
There was a theater in StCharles, illinois, called the

(45:22):
Arcata Theater.
This particular theater wasbuilt in 1915, and it was a
vaudeville theater, and thething about it is that in the
10s and 20s, there was onlyreally about five or six
vaudeville theaters across thecountry New York, san Francisco,
dallas, chicago and, likeOrlando or Tampa or something.
There was literally six, and sothe only way that these venues

(45:45):
could promote the shows thatwere coming in and granted the
vaudeville acts there were onlya handful of them, maybe seven
across the country.
Okay, so the only way that theywere able to get these shows
out and promoed was by PonyExpress.
Think about that.
Imagine promoing a SusanHickman show only by Promo
Express.
It's wild, right.

Isn't it crazy?

So it would be on every newspaper publication in
that city.
What Right?
It's crazy.
There's a picture inside thearcada of of of this theater
with a line wrapped around, andthis is probably 1920.
I have no idea how they got thearrow maybe on top of another
building, but there's a linewrapped around the building and
obviously it looks verydifferent now.

(46:28):
But there's a line wrappedaround the building and it's.
They said that the picture wastaken in january, so it's
probably 10 degrees, that thepicture was taken in January, so
it's probably 10 degrees.
Cool Right, oh, dude, I wasthere in February.
When I landed it was threedegrees.
I'm not built for that at all.

I'm not a cool person, not at all.
Anyhow, not one bit.

So the Arcata Theater the first time I ever
played it, it was a Jason Aldean, me as Luke Bryan and then a
Kenny Chesney.
This theater seats 850 people.
We sold 833 tickets.

That's amazing.

It was probably the best show of my whole career.
There's a great picture.
If you go to my website,there's a great picture of me
singing to the crowd with theflashlights.
Every time I see that picture,it just reminds me of what the
universe is capable of.
I am just a kid from Houston,texas, that gets to go up to

(47:24):
this place where, again, nobodyknows me.
It's the most humbling thingever because after that show I
hit my last note, I do mywalk-off, the music ends,
there's a 15-minute intermissionand I come out and I literally
was going to go out and say hito my parents because they were
there and there were twostaircases and there was a line
up the valley way into theatrium and they were literally

(47:46):
standing there to come takepictures with me, to talk with
me, to shake my hand.
And this went on.
I'm telling you, shake my hand.
I'm telling you it was cool.
It was such a humblingexperience, it was my favorite.
The show and the venue are inthe same for me because it was
such a special defining momentin my music career.
I'm singing somebody else'smusic, I'm doing something

(48:08):
completely out of my comfortzone.
Skinny jeans suck.
It's not fun for me, but I lovethe show, I love the people and
that was really the momentwhere I was like I freaking love
this man.
I love it, I really do.
I love it, so that is myfavorite venue and show wrapped

(48:30):
up in one.

I love that and that's pretty convenient that
it's both I.

It didn't mean for it to be, but I mean, I think,
my favorite show.

So you said venue or show, right, I think my
favorite show was.
So I played this festival in acroupon france, so it's like
southern france.
Uh, it was a three day festival.
It was me and just a ton ofother Texas and some Nashville
artists, like the Graskols,daryl Singletary before he

(49:02):
passed away God rest his soulRobert Earl Keene, ray Wiley
Hubbard, I mean just, it was areally fun time, but I played on
the last day with DarylSingletary.
Like, I mean, just, it was areally fun time, but I played on
the last day with DarylSingletary.
Well, I played, and then heplayed, I think, and I remember.

(49:24):
So we're in France, right, andif you've ever tried to speak
French, it's hard.

It's hard to speak.
My dad speaks.

French.
It's hard to speak.
It's hard, it's hard.
My dad speaks french.
It's hard to speak.
It's hard to understand, likeI'm I'm german and american
indian, so like I can kind ofunderstand some german and some
swiss german and some of thosethings.
Um, but french, no, I hadabsolutely no idea.
Um, but we're playing our.
We're playing our set, and it'smostly original music, which is

(49:56):
great.
Um, they're singing my songs.
They're singing every word.
It's like a chorus and I'm likewhere is this?
What is happening right now?
And um, this was in 2010, so Ihad just put out, um, I just put
out my self-titled record, likemaybe a year and a half, two

(50:19):
years before then.
And yeah, they're singing backto me in my songs and it's like
my soul floated out of my body.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
It's wild.

And it was like are you seeing this?
It was crazy, it was reallycrazy, and I mean obviously,
like that was just an experienceof itself, because we all, like
, got to.
You know, they rented out likea whole hotel for all of us, and
so it was just like this threeor four day, just amazing, like

(50:46):
experience with all theseartists and everybody it's.

It's almost unfair that we get to do this because,
as I said earlier, for thosethat are not musical and don't
have the ability to do that,there is something magical about
what we get to do.
The life is hard, like there'sno doubt about it.
This life that we do, even evenon the scale that we are and

(51:09):
granted she's, she's doing somebigger things than I am but the
life that we live, I mean meanthere's a lot of time gone from
your home.
If you have a family, you'regone from them, at least on
weekends, and there's a warinessthat comes with it where it's
like sometimes you willliterally be in your car.
You'll be sitting outside of avenue thinking I don't want to

(51:31):
do this.
I promise you've done it.
I've done it.
Anybody who's ever done thishas done this.
Where you're just like I don'twant to be here and then
randomly, most likely on thesame night that you were 100%
out on whatever you're doing,you have one of the best nights
of your life.
It never fails.
Where somebody makes itinteresting, the crowd is fun.

(51:52):
It really never fails when Isay it's magical to get up and
do something like this either inSouth France or the Arcata
Theater.
Whatever the best drug thatyou've ever done, whatever that
is, this beats that by athousand times every single day.

It does.

It does.
There is no drug like it, Ipromise.
Now, granted, I've never donedrugs, so I don't know what
that's like me either.
I might I might reserve thatfor another time, but what I
mean is is that it is such ablessing and an honor to have
this God-given ability and thankmy Lord Savior, jesus Christ,
for this ability, because Ican't see my life going any
differently hindsight.

(52:32):
100% is 20 20 and thematuration of my life through
music has made me a betterperson, it's made me a better
husband, it's made me a betterfriend, it's made me just a
better human overall, because Iunderstand that not everybody
gets this right to do this.
They don't get the talent to doit and somehow God saw it fit

(52:53):
to bestow this on me to do it.
In whatever capacity that I getto do it in, I am thankful.

Well, we're thankful you're still doing it.
I'm thankful For sure.

Yes, I did Oof.

Okay, we have some audience participation.

Well, this is about to get heavy.

I have a song also that I want to talk about
too, but you go do this, so goahead and repeat the question,
so everybody can hear what'sgoing on.

So my mom is asking me about a song I wrote.
Okay.

Is this Answer the Call?

It is.

Okay, that's the one I wanted to talk about.
This is my favorite song, bythe way.
I'm so glad you like it.

So this next song is a song that I wrote and I'm
just going to preface this with.
The only time that this songgets played is when something
bad happens or somebody'sshowing to somebody who's in
this field.
I'm sure everybody remembersback five, six years ago where

(54:11):
our police were in the nationalspotlight right.
There was a very negativespotlight on the law enforcement
and LEOs and I didn't think itwas quite fair.
Obviously I'm not excusing theones who really are bad apples.
I will never excuse that.
But I'd like to believe that99.95% of those people in that

(54:35):
field are doing right by thepeople they serve.
So I'm sure you all rememberthe death of Deputy Goforth.
It was a massive deal inHouston.
If you don't, just a quickGoogle search will show you.
He was at a gas station inCypress, texas.

(54:56):
He was merely getting gas.
He was on his way home to hiswife and kids and somebody just
shot him right there in theparking lot.
Not even didn't give twothoughts about his life.
His family just shot him colddead in a parking lot and I
remember watching the funeraland them folding a flag and

(55:19):
handing it to his son and hiswife and at that moment.
It's funny how inspiration works, because whenever you write a
song about something as heavy asthat, people always think that
you're trying to gain somethingfrom it.
Right, I was not.
I've always said, and I willalways say, that if this song

(55:40):
ever did anything and it getsshared, I could care less about
the recognition.
I don't care if you show thissong to a police officer friend,
you don't even say my name.
Do not care, because the pointof this song was to paint the
picture of what I thought apolice officer's life probably
looked like from a very youngage to the end, and that there

(56:03):
are people the majority ofpeople love what they do and
appreciate what they do, becauseit is an incredibly important
job and one that really doesn'thave a whole lot of thanks to it
.
So please bear with me.
This song is hard.
I did sing this at a policeofficer's funeral, which was one
of the most incredibly hardthings I've ever done in my life

(56:24):
.
Again, if you go look up thissong, please share it with those
who are in this profession.
Let them know that we stillcare, that we still appreciate
what they do.
This song is called Answer theCall.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Little Jimmy Johnson lives at house 803, plays cops
and robbers at Sycamore Street.
He's got a badge on his heart,boots on his feet.
He's got a six-gun shooterwithin his reach.
He patrols the street on a redthree-wheel on the lookout for

(57:35):
crooks and thrills, serving hisneighbors.
A mailbox at a time.
Everybody knew his purpose inlife.
He answered the call to leave.
He risked it all for you and me.

(58:00):
He lays his life on the line.
Yeah, we're blue for all hislife.
He's got a badge on his heart,a prayer on his breath, a burden

(58:31):
on his shoulders and no regrets.
He steps out into the greatunknown With the faith that God
will make it home.
He answers the call to leave.
He risks it all for you and me.

(58:57):
He lives his life on the line.
Yeah, he'll wear blue for allhis life.
He's got a badge on his heartand medals on his chest, a

(59:33):
21-gun salute as he's laid torest.
He answered the call on thelead.
He gave it all for you and me.
He gave his life on the line.

(59:54):
Yeah, you were blue For all hislife.
Yeah, you were blue For all hislife.

Chris Boise (01:00:21):
Thank you very much .

Susan Hickman (01:00:22):
Chris Boyes, everybody and stories like that
is why I've wanted to do thisfor so long.

You know I love that song so much and I'm so
proud of it, but I just hatethat it just talks about
something that was actuallyprevalent in our country, right,
and it sucks that as asongwriter, a lot of times the
things we write about arerelevant events.
You have to because it'srelevant.
The reason you listen to musicis because it has relevance to

(01:00:53):
your life in some sort offashion.
If you were into old countrywhether it was George Jones or
any one of those crooners a lotof times they talked about real
world things that you saw inrelationships, right.
Well, we do the same thing justnow, modernly, and so this
particular song.
It's hard to explain because ofthat time and if you weren't

(01:01:18):
paying attention you might havemissed it, but it was such a
thing that I felt, again, Ididn't care about the
recognition of it, it didn'tneed that.

But it's not even about that.
It's the fact that you werecalled to write something that
was truthful and on your heart,and if somebody's gonna say that
you capitalize on something, Imean that's and nobody's ever
said I mean, let's be real,nobody's ever but we all have
that we have that in our mindsin the back of our minds.
You know, we all have itbecause, as a creator, we always

(01:01:50):
wonder, we if there's a, ifthere's somebody out there that
haters are gonna to hate always.
But the fact is, you did thattruthfully from your heart, and
we love you for it.
Thank you.
But we're actually going totake a very short little break
here.
For those of you who arelistening, this is the end of

(01:02:12):
our show, but not for y'all,because Chris is going to come
back and do a couple more songsfor everybody.
But tell everybody where theycan find you.

Yeah, so you can find me on, obviously, your
social medias.
Chris Boyce, b-o-i-s-e is howyou spell my last name.
I do have a website.
It is chrisboycemusiccom.
Please go look me up.
I think part of this is I justmoved down to this area in
January.
So if you've got a privateparty coming up, book Susan and

(01:02:41):
I will come play.
We'll come hang out, right.

We'll sing some Savage Garden tunes.

We will sing, absolutely sing, some Savage
Garden and, uh, you know, I, Ijust, I'm so appreciative.
You guys listen to my storiesand, and again, you't know me
from anybody and I'm just, I'mthankful for the opportunity.
Please go, follow me on socialmedia.
Please come back and see me ifyou see my name on a marquee
somewhere.
Susan Hickman, thank you somuch for having me.

Chris Boyes.
Everybody Seriously, go followhim on all the things and thank
you so much for being my very,very, very first guest and
you'll definitely be back.

Thank you.

Even if I have to go like hide behind a tree and
bag you Like we joked about.

Speaker 3 (01:03:17):
I'm going to get you.

Anyway.
Well, ladies and gentlemen,this is Hooked Stories and songs
from Texas and beyond.
We were visiting with ChrisBoyce this evening and thanks
again, thank you to Cocos on theCanal for being our lovely
venue and lovely host for theevening.

And thank you very much to our live audience.

Yes, thank you to our live audience.
We love you guys.
We're going to be doing thisevery single Tuesday right here
at Coco's on the Canal, 7 pm.
We'll see you next time, loveyou.

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Planting Seeds in a Savage Garden - With Chris Boise

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Planting Seeds in a Savage Garden - With Chris Boise