November 11, 2025 • 50 mins
In this heartfelt conversation, Greg talks with Linda Cook about her journey of grief after losing her beautiful daughter Jocelyn in a tragic accident. Linda shares her experiences of navigating the complexities of loss, the impact of her faith, and the importance of community support. Through her story, she highlights the ongoing process of healing, the joy of remembering Jocelyn, and the legacy she continues to inspire in others.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Well, hi everyone, and welcome back for our latest
episode.
I'm Greg Buffkin, and todayyou'll be hearing a conversation
I recently had with Linda Cookas we talk about her 12-year
journey after losing herbeautiful 21-year-old daughter,
Jocelyn, in a tragic trafficaccident in early January of
(01:09):
2013.
Jocelyn was a bright, energeticstudent at the Montana State
University and was pursuing adegree in nursing.
She loved the outdoors, sheloved adventure, and most of
all, she loved sharing JesusChrist with other people.
Linda and I not only talk aboutthe reality of the impact of
(01:33):
grief, but we also talk abouthow God has carried her through
the most painful season of herlife and continues to restore
hope, joy, and peace today.
And now, here's my conversationwith Linda.
Well, Linda, welcome to ourpodcast.
It's so good to have you today.
Speaker (01:54):
Thank you.
I'm excited to join you.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Well, and it's it's really nice to finally get to
meet face to face for ourlisteners.
Linda and I actually met forthe first time through a phone
conversation back in May.
And just because of schedulingissues and how busy life is,
this is the first time that eventhough you're not seeing her,
I'm seeing her face to face.
(02:19):
So I'm just glad that you couldwork this out in your schedule,
Linda.
Speaker (02:23):
Yeah, me too.
It's I I can't believe it'sbeen since May, but yeah, me
too.
It's been a long timeunrolling, it feels like.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, I know.
I know the feeling.
Well, hey, listen, why don'tyou take uh a couple minutes and
just tell us a little aboutyourself?
Whatever you would like toshare, Linda.
And I normally give my guestuh, you know, a couple of
minutes to do that.
Speaker (02:46):
Okay.
Born and raised in Montana, andI got married young, been
married for 34 years.
We had six daughters.
I'm down to the last two athome.
A third, four, fourth daughterjust finished her first year of
college.
And so down to the last two,homeschool them.
I've been pretty much astay-at-home mom for the last 34
(03:09):
years.
And not gonna lie, I'm a littlenervous about what the next few
years are gonna look like afterI get the last ones out of the
house and and figure out whatthat next chapter looks like.
However, I do have a grandbaby,my first grandbaby due any day
now.
So that that is the newchapter, and I'm pretty excited
about that.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Congratulations.
That's that's some really goodnews.
I know you're looking forwardto that.
Speaker (03:35):
I really am.
I have been ready to be agrandma probably for the last 10
years.
I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And and when is the due date?
Remind me.
Speaker (03:46):
The due date is actually the 24th, but she's
yeah, so she it could be anyday.
She's been having a lot ofcontractions and yeah, so pretty
exciting.
She doesn't live that far fromus, and we're hoping that she'll
be able to actually move backto our town.
She's only an hour and a halfaway, but I would I would prefer
(04:08):
her to be right next door, andI think she'd love to be back in
the same town too.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
So you sound like uh an expectant grandma.
Speaker (04:18):
Good.
I've been yard sailing, buyingthe toys that of course you
have.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, and I I bet you do prefer that she moves back
because you don't want an hourand a half between you and that
grain baby, do you?
Speaker (04:31):
No, my dream would be to live in a in a mountain in
the mountains with all my kidslined up with their, you know,
their you know, the Waltons nextdoor.
That would be the dream.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
You sound like a very normal mom.
Speaker (04:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah.
You know, we my wife and I arein that next season that you
were referring to.
You're not sure what you'regonna do with it and what it's
gonna look like.
You'll figure it out.
Speaker (04:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
It's it's a good next season.
Speaker (05:00):
Yep, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And I can't believe you've got six girls.
Speaker (05:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Not a boy in the bunch.
Speaker (05:07):
Not a boy.
We we did have a boy for fouryears.
We brought a he was a greatnephew that we had come into our
home for a few years.
And so, but I also have a lotof nephews, so I'm not a
stranger to what boys are likebecause the nephews were here a
lot.
But yeah, just the six girls.
And we had the three, and thenwe had a nine-year break, and
(05:28):
then and then we had three more,and and they're the same age
apart, the same, so we alwaysjust call them our do-over.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Wow.
Speaker (05:37):
Our oldest daughter, she because I would say I would
tell her, I learned all the Ilearned the mistakes from you
guys, and so now I'm not gonnamake the same mistakes, and she
was so wise beyond her years.
She said, Well, that's true,but you'll make new ones, and
she wasn't wrong.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
No, she wasn't.
I don't even have to know yourstory to know that, being a
parent myself.
Well, your husband must be anincredibly patient and gracious
man to have raised sixdaughters.
Speaker (06:10):
Well, there was this older lady in church that one
time told him, I know why Godgave you six daughters.
It's because you're such asensitive man at heart.
And and he is, he is verysensitive, and he's all bad.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, I bet those girls love their daddy too.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Oh, that's so sweet.
Well, listen, one of thereasons that that you are here
today is to talk about yourdaughter, Jocelyn.
And you know, you guys lostJocelyn in a traffic accident,
what, 12 years ago, almost 13years ago now.
Speaker (06:48):
Yeah, it'll be 13 years in January.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
In January.
And she was a student atMontana State studying to be a
nurse, right?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Right.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah.
Why don't you just take a fewminutes, Linda, and tell us
about Jocelyn?
Because from what I've read,she just sounds like an amazing
young lady.
Speaker (07:08):
She, yeah.
Jocelyn was had the ability tomake friends with everyone.
She was, she had a heart forthe Lord.
She, and I think the Lord justput in her heart him knowing
that her time here was short.
So she almost had this fervencyof sharing the word.
She shared the word with herteachers at school before before
(07:31):
I started homeschooling her.
She would share tracks, shewould share videos, she would
share the word of God witheverybody she met.
And she carried that on atschool.
I don't know.
That girl had the ability tointerrupt a basketball game and
drag everyone off to Biblestudy.
I I didn't do that, but she didit.
(07:54):
She was the kind of girl thatwould walk into the cafeteria
and see someone sitting in thecorner by themselves, and she
would walk up to them and ask ifshe could join them for lunch
and and and and drag them off toBible study.
And so her door was always, shewas an RA in the dorms, her
door was always open.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah.
Speaker (08:17):
And she just made friends with everybody she met.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Oh wow.
Those are rare people.
Speaker (08:27):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
So as her as her mom, what's what's one of your
favorite memories of somethingthat you guys did together,
Linda?
Speaker (08:37):
Jocelyn.
Well, we did a lot of outdoorthings.
Living in Montana hiking, we wewould go Mother's Day, probably
was one of our favorite things.
We would go hiking on Mother'sDay.
So we'd have our Mother's Dayhikes, camping, and just things
like that, spending time in theoutdoors and church.
Our church family was soamazing.
(08:58):
And Sundays, I lived forSundays.
They were just, it was thecountry church.
We would go to church, we wouldworship the Lord, we would
sing.
Afterwards, we'd have apotluck.
The kids were playing baseballout in the out behind the
church.
So we had a very stronghomeschool community there.
And yeah, those were the goodold days.
Those, those were good times.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah.
Sweet memories now.
Those are like treasures,aren't they?
Speaker (09:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah.
Speaker (09:27):
Sleepovers.
Yeah.
All the, you know, just all thethings.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, those it's it's so goodwhen you're when you've uh God
brings you to the point whereyou've you've been through all
of that acute pain and andtrauma of of losing your child,
and then at some point, and youdon't even really realize it as
it's happening, uh, the healingprocess is bringing you to a
(09:55):
place where you know it's likeall of a sudden you, you know,
one day you can laugh aboutsomething and you don't feel
guilty about it anymore.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And your focus turns away from from death and loss to
life again.
And I mean for our listenerswho maybe are haven't gotten to
that place yet, they're still inthat acute season of grief.
Just hang on.
And if you'll lean into theLord and give this to Him and
(10:27):
let other people in to helpcarry your grief, you're gonna
get there.
And and you will experience joyagain.
The grief shouldn't go away, itdoesn't not not implying that
in the least.
It's just that you'll discoverthat joy and wholeness and
meaning and purpose can coexistwith that grief.
Speaker (10:48):
Yeah.
And you can learn that you Ihave learned myself that I I am
a better person since heraccident.
I am much more empathetic, I ammore sympathetic, I I have the
ability to listen better than Iever have before.
Because before I was alwaystrying to solve someone's
(11:11):
problem, realizing that, youknow, sometimes there's no
solution, that people just needto not even necessarily talk,
but sometimes just be.
Just yeah, just be.
And yeah, I I definitely, yeah,I don't know.
I I'm still learning, I think.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
And and and it's a lifelong learning process, isn't
it?
And you just touched onsomething that I think is really
important, Linda.
And and that is that uhsometimes people who are looking
in from the outside, you know,their family, their friends,
people that that we know atchurch.
And when we go throughsomething like this, they most
(11:54):
want to help, but most arethey're very uncomfortable
sometimes around us because theydon't know what to do with us.
And sometimes they feel like ifmaybe if they say the right
thing or if they do the rightthing, it'll help you feel
better.
And that it'll make a hugedifference.
(12:16):
And sometimes what they don'trealize is they're kind of
trying to figure out how to fixus, even if they're not
consciously you know doing itfor that reason.
And I love what you saidbecause sometimes it's good to
just come and be with thatperson.
You don't have to say anything,and believe me, there's nothing
(12:37):
that you can say that's goingto make it all better.
So that just let that be be areassurance that you don't have
to to come and and hang out andhave the right words to say.
That just should just let youfeel like you're off the hook.
Just be with them.
And if they want to talk, youknow, we'll talk.
(12:59):
And sometimes we just aren'tthere, we don't want to talk,
right?
Speaker (13:04):
Yeah.
I did have I had a few I had afew friends that lost their
children.
And after those are the onlyfriends that I wanted to be
with, and I didn't not because Iwanted to talk, not because I
wasn't ready to talk.
I did just want to be with thembecause I knew that they were
the only ones who could evencome close to understand what I
(13:26):
was going through.
So just knowing that they knewhow much I was hurting, even
just that brought me comfortbecause I knew I was not alone
and that I was not going to walkthis path alone.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Sure.
Well, that's that's reallyimportant because when something
like this happens, you you feelincredibly alone, and you can
feel very alone and isolated,even in a crowd.
And it's it's very difficult tounder to explain that to
somebody else who hasn't livedit.
(14:02):
And that's why it's um it thatwas such a blessing for you to
have some others who have livedit, because you don't have to
explain it to them, they get it.
And and it that in itself doesbring some reassurance that
you're seeing these people whohave not only experienced it,
(14:22):
but they've lived through it,and they're in, I mean, they've
they've come through that griefjourney, and they're now in a
place where they can can comealongside you.
Speaker (14:33):
And I could see that they were, you know, where they
were, that they were they wereliving again.
They were you know, I could seethat they had joy in their
lives.
I could so that I knew that Iwas not going to always feel
like in this dark, dark place.
I knew there was light at theend of the tunnel, but there was
(14:53):
one one lady that she'd losttwo children in a car accident.
She was my male lady, smalltown, so we all know every
everybody, but she was my malelady.
She brought me my mail just Idon't know, if maybe a week,
two, three, I don't know,afterwards.
She brought me my mail and Icaught her outside.
And and all I wanted to know,because she she asked me, is
(15:14):
there anything I can do for you?
Because that's what everybodyasks.
What can I do for you?
But the one thing I wanted thisgal to tell me was how long?
How long am I going to achethis bad?
How long am I going to feellike I can't get out of bed in
the morning?
How long before Jocelyn was thelast thing I thought about when
(15:35):
I went to bed?
And the first thing I thoughtabout in the morning, how I
wanted a date on my calendarthat I could circle so that I
could know that that's what I'mlooking for.
I got to get to this date, andthen everything's going to be
okay.
And her response to me was thatfirst year, you you got to get
through the first year becauseit's all the first.
The first birthday, the first,you know, the first anniversary
(15:58):
of the accident, the firstholiday without her, the first,
you know, just all the firsts.
And that was her response.
And that that that did give methat gave me a target date, as
long as I could circle somethingon the calendar to look to the
light at the end of the tunnel.
But that woman was so precious.
Just just I knew I yeah.
(16:20):
And and again, just evenbumping into her on the
sidewalk, just in the verypresence of her for the few
moments, just brought me animmeasurable amount of peace.
Because she was smiling.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, exactly.
You can see life because youdon't when you're in that acute
season of grief, you don't feellife very much.
You just you feel like you'reexisting, but not really living.
And I would like for us tospend a few minutes talking
about that, Linda.
(16:56):
That's the the hard part ofgrief.
The hardest part of grief, Ishould say, I think is in that
early season.
Whether it be a year, somepeople say it's two years, some
people say it's longer.
The grief is for a lifetime,but the acuteness of it does
begin to fade over time, and itbecomes more like of a chronic
(17:20):
thing that we always live with.
But because people who arethere now in that raw season of
it sometimes feel like they'relosing their mind, and they feel
like life is never going to begood again, and they wonder if
they even want to survive it.
(17:41):
What was that like for you asfar as you know, because you and
I know that there's it impactsus physically, mentally,
emotionally, spiritually.
I mean, there's nothing aboutus that it doesn't touch.
So for you, what did that looklike?
Speaker (17:59):
The I felt like I had a traumatic brain injury.
I felt like I was losing mymind.
I couldn't eat, I couldn'tsleep, and it didn't just last
days, weeks, months.
It lasted a very, very longtime.
And so every single day wasjust getting through the day.
(18:19):
But I did, I really, reallydid.
I tried to find Jesus ineverything because he was my
lifeline.
I had Jeremiah 29, 11 was myverse that I hung on to and and
just repeated.
In fact, see, I've got it.
Let me see if I can.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yeah, I was gonna ask you to to read that because
there are listeners today whowho aren't familiar with that
verse.
Speaker (18:45):
So what the version that I have on my wall, I'm
actually not sure whattranslation it is, but for I
know the plans I have for you,declares the Lord.
Plans to prosper you and not toharm you, plans to give you
hope in a future, because and togive you hope in a future, not
to harm you because that feltlike harm.
(19:06):
You could take my arms, mylegs, and that would have been
better than taking my child, ornot that the Lord took her, that
would have been better thanlosing my child.
But his plans were not to harmme, but to give me hope and a
future.
And I I clung on to the future.
I knew that I had a brightfuture.
(19:28):
I still have five childrenhere, but not only that, I still
have Jocelyn's legacy here, theone that she started, the one
that she began with her friends,with her acquaintances that she
met at school, um, people whocame to know the Lord from the
from what she had shared withthem.
(19:50):
Um I knew that I still hadthose things.
And so that helped me getthrough day by day.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Yeah, and and sometimes our our feelings and
emotions be betray that what youknow.
Um you know, you you knew that,and so you could hang on to
that.
You knew that God was going tocarry you through this, that you
could trust him.
It, you know, he it broke hisheart when Jocelyn died.
(20:22):
And we live in a fallen world,and bad things happen to good
people, bad things happen to badpeople, and bad things happen
to followers of Jesus.
And, you know, God doesn'tremove all of those things in
the in the world that we livein, but he promised he would go
(20:42):
with us through those things andthat he would carry us.
And it's also a reason that weneed to let other people in
after something like this sothat they can help carry that
grief, even though they can't,they're not living it, they can
help shoulder some of the theburden that you know that we go
(21:03):
through.
Speaker (21:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah.
Speaker (21:05):
And I had a I had a I just had to have the ability to
remind myself over and overthat, you know, Job, where were
you when I laid the laid thefoundations of the earth?
God can see every single facetof every single possibility of
(21:26):
why what life could or wouldlook like.
And I trust that what he whathe did, what he allowed to
happen that day, January 6th,2013, that still my life it did
not alter the my life in such away that it was going to turn
(21:49):
out bad.
I mean, because I mean a lot ofpeople turn to drugs, turn to
alcohol, turn to I trust that hehad my future, that he was
giving me personally a future.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yeah, and that's really important to be to try to
to remember to hang on to whatyou know.
And it it always takes me backto to Romans 8 28.
I think it's uh it's reallyit's so important for us to
understand when we're goingthrough something that is so
traumatic and it just absolutelyfeels like it's crushing us.
(22:28):
And it's that in that verse,Jesus said that, uh I'm sorry,
that Paul said that God will useall things for good in our
lives for those who know him andare called according to his
purpose.
It you know, when you lose achild, it's really hard to
(22:53):
imagine that God can do anythinggood with that, isn't it?
I mean, because it's not how wefeel.
You know, sometimes losing achild leaves us feeling angry
with God because we know thathe's sovereign and he could have
stopped it had he chosen to.
But he also had a bigger planthan what we're able to to even
(23:16):
begin to try to conceive of.
But he will use it for good,and you can't see it then, but
in retrospect, I'm sure that youcould probably say, just like
we can't, that we have seen God,we have witnessed God use
Ryan's death for good in thelives of other people.
(23:37):
And I know you've been in thisfor two years longer than we
have.
And so I know you've witnessedthis more than we have.
Speaker (23:46):
Well, first of all, for myself, I know that a lot of
people did struggle, but formyself, I did not struggle with
anger.
Not a single time, not once,not even towards the man who
caused the accident.
Even with him, I was filledwith grace and I prayed for him
because I knew that he did notcause that accident on purpose.
(24:08):
I knew I have sped before.
I have tried to get to frompoint A to point B recklessly
before.
Notice by the grace of God thatI did not cause a car accident.
I did have a lot of grace withhim.
And also the Lord gave me giftsalong the way that made
(24:29):
everything more bearable for me,such as when she was headed
back to Montana StateUniversity, it was right after
Christmas break.
And so she had all of herChristmas presents boxed up.
They were driving in a littleToyota pickup, and right behind
her, right behind her head, shehad a box of her little
treasures that she got forChristmas.
Sitting right on top was a verydelicate little glass teapot,
(24:54):
just like right reachable, justright there.
And that, so she heard theaccident caused a traumatic
brain injury.
And well, she actually diedinstantly.
But the little teapot that wasright there didn't even get, I
wish I would have, it's in mykitchen.
I wish I would have brought itdown to hold up to you, but it
very delicate glass.
It it did not get a chip, not ascratch on that thing.
(25:18):
One one hundredth of a secondwould have made all the
difference.
She would still be here if oneone hundredth of a second had
gone by and her head would havebeen there instead of here.
Just that that was a gift.
That was a gift because it didour days are numbered.
(25:40):
The Lord knows exactly when ourour days are over here on
earth.
And so, because of that, Itrusted him.
And then very shortly after heraccident, I already had people
messaging me telling me thatthey came to know the Lord
because of her accident, becauseof the words that she had
(26:03):
shared with them, it became realto them almost immediately upon
finding out the news.
And so those little things tome were they were gifts.
They were they were ball on theburn.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
But yeah, I can only imagine.
I mean, what incredible comfortthat must have provided.
And and just I'm sure that itjust filled your heart with such
pride that that your daughter,with the with the time that she
did have, not knowing, you know,that her life was was going to
(26:39):
be cut short, but that she choseto invest her time in the lives
of other people and wanted themto know Jesus.
Speaker (26:48):
Yeah.
Well, a funny story.
So she was taking nursing,right?
She, and a lesson, a funnystory, plus a lesson here.
She was taking nursing.
And when you are takingnursing, you really cannot
afford to get anything less thanan A.
It's got to be an A because youhave to, for your pre-nursing
classes, so that you could getaccepted into nursing school.
It's a very competitiveprogram.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah.
Speaker (27:10):
Well, the girl was not getting A's.
She got a couple C's and shehad to repeat some classes.
And the re reason she wasgetting not A's is because she
was investing so much in people.
She was going to all the Biblestudies.
She was dragging people alongwith her to the Bible studies.
And if she was, you know,dragging people to the Bible
(27:32):
studies, well, she had to gotoo.
So she was not studying herchemistry and anatomy and
physiology like she should.
But her dad were like, Jocelyn,you have got to buckle down and
get better grades.
You have to spend more time.
Maybe just not so many Biblestudies, but she good, you know,
she didn't listen to her dadand I.
(27:53):
And I can, I'm so grateful forthat because she knew it.
She was, and like I saidearlier, she had a fervency for
her work here.
And she was very serious aboutit.
She, it was just inside of her,she knew what she needed to get
done, and she did it.
And I am grateful for that,that she did not listen to us
and our and I know that thereare some other people who are
(28:15):
grateful for that too.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
And and parents who are grateful for that.
Speaker (28:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Jocelyn for sorry.
You're not Jocelyn, you'reLinda.
So Linda, what are some thingsthat you think helped you and
those that have helped you on anongoing basis along the way,
and you're learning how toprocess your grief in a healthy
(28:48):
way.
Because there are people thatare listening today, and
although we don't offer advice,we don't offer counseling
because we're not counselors.
You and I are we'reexperienced, wish that we
weren't.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
But we can share what helped us.
And so our listeners can maybethey can borrow from something
that helped you or that helpedme and applied in in their own
grief journey.
What would you say to that?
Speaker (29:19):
Well, for personally, what I did was I listened to a
lot of praise and worship musicthat helped.
I exercised a lot.
Actually, that may have notbeen the most healthiest, even
though it's exercise and itsounds healthy, it may not it
was self-destructive almostbecause I would run.
I would run until I could runno more.
And I was because I wanted tofeel physical pain to divert my
(29:43):
attention from the emotionalpain that I was that I was
feeling.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker (29:48):
I was looking for the endorphin high, and really I
really didn't find that.
So that and that hurt.
It was painful.
So I kind of I didn't do thatfor too long, um, maybe about
three months after her accident.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
But it was a distraction, wasn't it?
Speaker (30:01):
It was very much a distraction.
And I, you know, it consideringwhat else is out there, it was
it was a healthy distraction.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yes.
Speaker (30:08):
But no, actually, it wasn't.
It was not a healthydistraction, it was unhealthy.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It was but well, it could have been a whole lot less
healthy, that's for certain.
Speaker (30:16):
Yeah.
A praise and worship music,though.
I I don't remember which of herfriends I reached out to, but I
I downloaded her playlist ofher her praise and worship music
that she listened to.
And I listened to that a lot.
And then I I really just lookforward to heaven.
Not in a manner of where Iwanted to die, but I will I am
(30:41):
still very much looking forwardto heaven.
I am very much looking forwardto the reunion.
And so I did read the book.
Heaven by Randy Alcorn.
And that book brought me somuch comfort and peace.
I listened to Pastor Greg Loria lot because he also lost his
son in a car accident.
And so going back to the, youknow, just people who have
(31:04):
walked through it and got to theother side and they made it, so
to speak.
Looking to them is what helpedme get through through the the
grief.
And I was, and to this day, thebook of 2 Samuel is my favorite
book of the Bible because thatis what she was reading when she
died.
And I have her Bible and all ofher notes and everything.
(31:27):
And so I studied 2 Samuel overand over and over.
And that brought me peace andcomfort.
And so the word of God, praiseand worship music, and other
people that just really aligningmyself with people who knew my
pain is really what got methrough those months.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
And you know, I I concur witheverything that you said, Linda.
And, you know, it there aredifferent things that work
better for different people.
I think a lot of times we hearthat, you know, that music plays
a big role in helping people tojust in not necessarily in
(32:10):
processing the grief, but it'sjust like a balm that you were
describing a few minutes ago.
And it if that works for you,then by all means, but don't as
you're listening today, pleasedon't feel like that you have to
do something because somebodyelse did.
Because it it's not aone-size-fits-all, is it?
(32:32):
I mean, it's grief journeys arevery unique.
Speaker (32:36):
My husband processed completely different.
He started a bunch of newhobbies.
He he started gold panning andhe erected this giant aquaponics
system, which is actuallyhilarious because my husband, if
aquaponics is the relationshipbetween plants and fish.
(32:57):
And my husband hatesvegetables, and so he erected
this whole greenhouse and andstarted growing vegetables,
which he hates.
And so, yes, everybodyprocesses and gets through it
differently.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Yeah, and it's so common to hear a a mom talk
about her her how her husbanddealt with grief, and almost
predictably, it's exactly whatyou described.
It's doing practical things,things that that keep him
(33:35):
occupied, that keep him focused,uh, where he, you know, it's
like we described thatdistraction when you were
running hard.
It may not necessarily be theright answer, but it does
provide sometimes a necessarydistraction when it's so raw.
And it's just men and womenjust deal with it very
(33:58):
differently.
Speaker (33:59):
And you want to know the most ridiculous thing we
did.
We we went to the county fairthat so the accident was in
January.
Our county fair is always LaborDay weekend, and there were
baby pigs for sale.
We we drove a minivan at thetime, and we came, we brought
pigs home in our minivan.
Like, never have neither noneof us have ever had anything to
(34:19):
do with pigs.
We brought home pigs to raiseand had nothing, no, no pen, no
nothing to put them in when wegot here.
So they were they ran around inour yard and it took forever to
catch them.
And yeah, so we just did silly,silly things, but we still
raise them to this day, though.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
What in the world led you guys to come home with
pigs?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
I don't know.
We just thought, oh, let's dothis.
This might be fun.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Seemed like a good idea at the time, right?
Speaker (34:47):
So stick to some healthy distractions like
reading the word of God, andthen there's not so healthy and
bringing home our car smelledfor weeks after that.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Really?
Speaker (34:58):
Yes, pigs don't smoke it.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah, I can only imagine.
But hey, if it works, right?
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah.
Well, we still still raisepigs.
And now our take them to thecounty fair.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
So that worked out.
But what in the what do youthink Jocelyn would think of
that?
Speaker (35:17):
I'm pretty sure she Jocelyn laughed about
everything.
I'm sure she was laughing.
She is like, oh my, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
I'm sure she probably was then.
So let's talk about somethingthat we kind of touched on a
little while ago, and that iswhere you are now.
You know, we talked about thatacute season of grief.
But you've come a long way.
It's been 12 years, as as wetouched on earlier.
(35:47):
And sometimes it's really easyto fall into the trap of going
into survival mode after ithappens.
Because it's it's the easiestthing to do sometimes.
We don't have to, you don'treally have to work at it.
You don't have to make a lot ofchoices or decisions that that
(36:09):
are gonna require a lot ofenergy, that are gonna require
stepping out of your comfortzone and that sort of thing,
because nothing's easy.
I mean, you know, let's faceit, nothing is easy after losing
a child.
But you know that your childwouldn't want you to stay there.
And you know that deep downinside you don't really want to
(36:31):
stay there either, but sometimesyou you choose you almost
choose by not choosing to dothat, and it it can uh it can
almost become your identity ifyou're not careful.
That you know the focus is whatyou've lost and what you'll
(36:52):
never have again.
And so to stay there in thatsurvival mode can be a very
lonely and miserable place.
So for you, what what do youthink where along the line do
you think that you startedmaking that turn towards towards
(37:14):
life again and being able tofocus on all the all the funny
and sweet and and and goodthings that you remember about
not only Jocelyn, but the thethings that you guys did
together and shared in lifetogether.
Speaker (37:31):
Yeah.
Well, I think before because Iand I'm I have a friend that's
here from well, she just leftthis morning, but from North
Carolina who just lost herhusband.
And I just asked her yesterday,are you starting to get those
little snippets of joy yet?
Because they do start there,and they start coming in little
(37:54):
snippets.
Yeah, you you do start feelinglike you're living again, and
and you do feel joy again.
It might be just a littlesnippet throughout the day, but
the Lord does give you thatthroughout the day, and they do
start to come more often, andand then you can speak their
(38:14):
name without crying, but here Iam 12 years later, and I can
speak her name and cry.
You never know what's coming.
You don't know if you're gonnacry, you don't know if you're
gonna laugh when you decide toshare a story, and it can go
either way, yeah.
And and I just I don't thinkit's ever gonna be any
different.
I think I can be in my 90s andstill talk about her and cry or
(38:38):
laugh and not know what it'sgonna be that day.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, I agree with that because I've talked to so
many people, some who have lostchildren over 20 years prior to
our conversation.
And you know, you can be havinga you know a really great
conversation with them, and youknow, you can see the joy all
over their face.
Somewhere in that conversation,something triggers the tears
(39:04):
and takes them right back to tofeel in those acute, you know,
that acute pain.
But it those are really thepain though.
Speaker (39:13):
It can be tears with joy, but the problem is it makes
people uncomfortable becausethen they're they feel like they
should have never said, Oh, Ishould have never mentioned her
name.
And and and that's sillybecause it's not like you're
ever gonna forget that yourchild, you know, you're never
gonna forget your child.
And so I think that people thatdon't understand the pain of
loss don't know that that it'sokay to say their name because
(39:39):
just because there's tears, it'sstill okay to the tears are not
always bad and they don'talways mean sorrow.
It's a funny thing because youcan be crying and feel the joy,
but you feel the sadness at thesame time.
I don't know how emotions thatother people feel.
I don't remember feeling thoseparticular emotions before our
(40:02):
loss.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
I'm so glad that you touched on that, Linda.
Excuse me.
Because I think a lot of peopledo struggle with whether or not
to say our child's name.
Because multitude of reasons.
I think primarily, like yousaid, it's because they're
afraid that if we say, if theysay our child's name, we're
(40:23):
gonna suddenly get really sadand we might start crying, and
it makes us hurt all over again.
And nothing, for the most part,I think for most people,
nothing could be further fromthe truth.
We love hearing our children'sname, especially when somebody
else uses it, right?
Because it means that they'vethey haven't forgotten.
(40:46):
And one of our greatest fearsas a parent is that people will
forget our child.
I mean, we certainly won't.
We certainly won't forget thatthey died, so it's not like
you're reminding us that ourchild died.
It that's not something youforget.
So take the risk, you know, askabout their child, use their
name, you know, ask them about agood memory.
Speaker (41:09):
And realize that these are the only memories that we
get.
We don't get to talk abouttheir future anymore.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Right.
Speaker (41:15):
We don't get any more memories, so all we have is the
past, and we have to be able totalk about that.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Sure.
Speaker (41:23):
That's all we have.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yeah, and and know that we're good with doing that.
You know, we really do want todo that, but you know, I don't
know about you, but you know,here we are 10 years later in
our grief journey.
And, you know, while themajority of people that we're
really close to uh know thatit's perfectly fine to talk
about Ryan, and we often do,often do.
(41:47):
But some people you can tellthey they're not gonna bring up
Ryan's name and they're notgonna ask us about what happened
or about his life or anything.
And for a long time I struggledwith that.
Kathy and I both struggled withthat because it was like we
felt like people didn't care.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
But we have learned that that's not the case for you
know for most people.
It's just that they'reuncomfortable and they don't
know what to do.
Yeah.
Speaker (42:18):
So you can't if you don't, if you haven't lived it,
you don't know.
There's no possible way forthem to understand.
I always said it was trying todescribe chocolate to somebody
who had never tasted it.
How can you describe whatchocolate if you're a chocolate
lover like me?
How can you describe chocolateto somebody who has never tasted
it?
You can't.
(42:39):
You there's not a way to getthem to understand.
You can't describe thefeelings.
You cannot.
Just in the same as like Icannot understand my male lady
who has lost not one child, buttwo.
I can't imagine that.
I can't.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
No, and you know, the truth of the matter is we I
mean, when you stop and thinkabout it, we wouldn't want
anybody else to understand whatwe've experienced.
Because it means they would hadto have experienced it too.
And you don't want that foranybody else.
Speaker (43:15):
No, the club that you don't want to belong to and you
don't want any new members.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
No, absolutely.
Well, here you are twelve yearslater, almost thirteen.
What does it look like todayfor you on your grief journey as
opposed to some of what we'vetalked about that it was like
11, 12 years ago?
Speaker (43:39):
Well, 12 years ago I had hopes and dreams of what my
future would look like.
So when we're grieving, youdon't just grieve the loss of
your child, you grieve the lossof what you thought your future
looked like.
You grieve futuregrandchildren, you grieve what
you thought would be cousinparties at grandma and grandpa's
(44:01):
house, you grieve so manythings that you grieve along
with the loss of your child.
I mean I I digressed and forgotyour question.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
No, that's okay because I think that's important
because a lot of people whohaven't been there don't
understand sometimes we the termgets thrown around future
grief.
And that's what Linda's beentalking about is you know, we we
also grieve not just what we'velost and who we've lost, but we
(44:31):
grieve what could have been.
You know, when some when afriend of our child gets
married, you know, we thinkabout our child and what could
have been.
Uh when they're havingchildren, we think about what
that could have been like forour child.
And and the list goes on and onand on.
You know, and and so those arethings that you have to deal
(44:54):
with as well that nobody toldyou about, and uh it doesn't
come in uh with the aninstruction manual that we
didn't get when you know when webecame parents.
Speaker (45:06):
And with our new our new grandbaby coming, she she is
a little girl, and our daughteris gonna name her Jocelyn.
And it's gonna be precious andit's it's gonna be sweet, but I
actually don't even know.
I'm happy that she's naming herthat.
I that fills my heart with joy.
But at the same time, I do knowit's there's gonna be some
(45:28):
pangs of of you know just notthat her name is Jocelyn, but
that her name is Jocelyn, andJocelyn's not here to know that
she has a little namesake.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Right.
Speaker (45:40):
And yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Oh well, well, you're gonna have to keep me updated
on this because I know that thisis you're getting ready to
enter into a very sweet season,and I think it is incredibly
sweet that she's gonna name herdaughter Jocelyn.
Yeah, and so you will you'llnever cease to hear the name
(46:03):
Jocelyn.
Speaker (46:05):
Nope, and I love that.
I do love that.
It'll yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
What a great way to honor her.
Speaker (46:11):
That's what I thought.
Yep.
Yeah, and I love that name.
Out of all my kids' names, thatwas my favorite name.
I love the name Jocelyn.
I think it's so beautiful.
I don't even know where I heardit.
It's it, you know, 34 yearsago.
It was not, I guess she's 33,but 33 years ago, it was not a
not a popular name.
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
I love it.
It is it is a beautiful name.
Well, Linda, thank you so muchfor for giving us a glimpse into
your life and your griefjourney.
Thank you for being so honestand transparent and just just
sharing the reality of what agrieving parent goes through,
but also the reality of of lifeas it as we begin to live again
(47:01):
and and can experience the kindof life that that that God
intends for us to live, filledwith hope and joy and peace and
and and wholeness again.
So thank you for doing that.
Speaker (47:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks for having me.
I do want to, I'm gonna put youdown for five seconds here.
Grace, I want to grab a pieceof artwork that she that she
made that I do want to leave youwith.
I thought I lost it.
I had a whole stack of theseand and I couldn't find it for a
second.
Let's see if I can can you seethat weird.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
No will.
Speaker (47:40):
It's a tree.
She she was an artist.
Let's see.
Uh she was an artist, and thisis a tree that is going.
So this is the Bible righthere, and the tree's roots are
going through the Bible.
And the verse on it is Psalms1.3.
Psalm 1.3, he shall be like atree planted by the rivers of
water.
Her her handwriting is not thegreatest, but that bringeth
(48:02):
forth his fruit in his season,his leaf shall not wither, and
in whatsoever he doeth, heprosper.
So, this particular piece ofartwork, this is on the back of
her funeral service, her funeralprogram.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Okay.
Speaker (48:15):
Um, but the reason I chose this particular is she had
a lot of finished artwork andshe even had a lot of these that
were finished, but this one isnot finished.
This one, the coloring isthrough the trunk, through the
roots.
She didn't get to, she was, shegilded the Bible in in some of
her other artwork.
And then the leaves and thebranches and the leaves, she,
(48:37):
you know, she had them allpainted out.
But this one is just the trunkthat is colored and a few of the
a few of the leaves.
And so the reason I chose thisparticular artwork for her
program is because her story, ohgoodness, my cat.
Her story, even though she hasbeen gone for 12 years, is not
(48:57):
finished.
The Lord will finish thispainting.
The Lord will finish the workthat he started through her,
even though she is not here.
And and I love that.
I love I love that so much.
This painting will be completedand at the the day of Jesus
(49:22):
Christ when he comes for therest of us.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
That's beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
And for our listeners, if ifLinda's conversation, her story
today has has impacted yourlife, if uh if it has offered
you some encouragement and hope,then we are we are so thankful
(49:46):
for that.
And if you would like to leavea comment, there is a link on uh
Linda's episode description.
You can click on that.
And also you can go to ApplePodcast and leave a comment or
leave a review.
But we are very thankful againthat Linda joined us today and
(50:08):
shared her story.
Thank you so much, Linda.
Speaker (50:11):
Thank you for having me, Greg.
It was very nice to meet you,and it was wonderful visiting
with you.
And I appreciate theopportunity to share what I can
about Jocelyn
Speaker 3 (50:23):
I appreciate that.
Well, the the honor has beenall mine.
G
Well, hi everyone, and welcome back for our latest
episode.
I'm Greg Buffkin, and todayyou'll be hearing a conversation
I recently had with Linda Cookas we talk about her 12-year
journey after losing herbeautiful 21-year-old daughter,
Jocelyn, in a tragic trafficaccident in early January of
(01:09):
2013.
Jocelyn was a bright, energeticstudent at the Montana State
University and was pursuing adegree in nursing.
She loved the outdoors, sheloved adventure, and most of
all, she loved sharing JesusChrist with other people.
Linda and I not only talk aboutthe reality of the impact of
(01:33):
grief, but we also talk abouthow God has carried her through
the most painful season of herlife and continues to restore
hope, joy, and peace today.
And now, here's my conversationwith Linda.
Well, Linda, welcome to ourpodcast.
It's so good to have you today.
Speaker (01:54):
Thank you.
I'm excited to join you.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Well, and it's it's really nice to finally get to
meet face to face for ourlisteners.
Linda and I actually met forthe first time through a phone
conversation back in May.
And just because of schedulingissues and how busy life is,
this is the first time that eventhough you're not seeing her,
I'm seeing her face to face.
(02:19):
So I'm just glad that you couldwork this out in your schedule,
Linda.
Speaker (02:23):
Yeah, me too.
It's I I can't believe it'sbeen since May, but yeah, me
too.
It's been a long timeunrolling, it feels like.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, I know.
I know the feeling.
Well, hey, listen, why don'tyou take uh a couple minutes and
just tell us a little aboutyourself?
Whatever you would like toshare, Linda.
And I normally give my guestuh, you know, a couple of
minutes to do that.
Speaker (02:46):
Okay.
Born and raised in Montana, andI got married young, been
married for 34 years.
We had six daughters.
I'm down to the last two athome.
A third, four, fourth daughterjust finished her first year of
college.
And so down to the last two,homeschool them.
I've been pretty much astay-at-home mom for the last 34
(03:09):
years.
And not gonna lie, I'm a littlenervous about what the next few
years are gonna look like afterI get the last ones out of the
house and and figure out whatthat next chapter looks like.
However, I do have a grandbaby,my first grandbaby due any day
now.
So that that is the newchapter, and I'm pretty excited
about that.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Congratulations.
That's that's some really goodnews.
I know you're looking forwardto that.
Speaker (03:35):
I really am.
I have been ready to be agrandma probably for the last 10
years.
I'm ready.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And and when is the due date?
Remind me.
Speaker (03:46):
The due date is actually the 24th, but she's
yeah, so she it could be anyday.
She's been having a lot ofcontractions and yeah, so pretty
exciting.
She doesn't live that far fromus, and we're hoping that she'll
be able to actually move backto our town.
She's only an hour and a halfaway, but I would I would prefer
(04:08):
her to be right next door, andI think she'd love to be back in
the same town too.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
So you sound like uh an expectant grandma.
Speaker (04:18):
Good.
I've been yard sailing, buyingthe toys that of course you
have.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah, and I I bet you do prefer that she moves back
because you don't want an hourand a half between you and that
grain baby, do you?
Speaker (04:31):
No, my dream would be to live in a in a mountain in
the mountains with all my kidslined up with their, you know,
their you know, the Waltons nextdoor.
That would be the dream.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
You sound like a very normal mom.
Speaker (04:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah.
You know, we my wife and I arein that next season that you
were referring to.
You're not sure what you'regonna do with it and what it's
gonna look like.
You'll figure it out.
Speaker (04:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
It's it's a good next season.
Speaker (05:00):
Yep, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And I can't believe you've got six girls.
Speaker (05:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Not a boy in the bunch.
Speaker (05:07):
Not a boy.
We we did have a boy for fouryears.
We brought a he was a greatnephew that we had come into our
home for a few years.
And so, but I also have a lotof nephews, so I'm not a
stranger to what boys are likebecause the nephews were here a
lot.
But yeah, just the six girls.
And we had the three, and thenwe had a nine-year break, and
(05:28):
then and then we had three more,and and they're the same age
apart, the same, so we alwaysjust call them our do-over.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Wow.
Speaker (05:37):
Our oldest daughter, she because I would say I would
tell her, I learned all the Ilearned the mistakes from you
guys, and so now I'm not gonnamake the same mistakes, and she
was so wise beyond her years.
She said, Well, that's true,but you'll make new ones, and
she wasn't wrong.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
No, she wasn't.
I don't even have to know yourstory to know that, being a
parent myself.
Well, your husband must be anincredibly patient and gracious
man to have raised sixdaughters.
Speaker (06:10):
Well, there was this older lady in church that one
time told him, I know why Godgave you six daughters.
It's because you're such asensitive man at heart.
And and he is, he is verysensitive, and he's all bad.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, I bet those girls love their daddy too.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Oh, that's so sweet.
Well, listen, one of thereasons that that you are here
today is to talk about yourdaughter, Jocelyn.
And you know, you guys lostJocelyn in a traffic accident,
what, 12 years ago, almost 13years ago now.
Speaker (06:48):
Yeah, it'll be 13 years in January.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
In January.
And she was a student atMontana State studying to be a
nurse, right?
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Right.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah.
Why don't you just take a fewminutes, Linda, and tell us
about Jocelyn?
Because from what I've read,she just sounds like an amazing
young lady.
Speaker (07:08):
She, yeah.
Jocelyn was had the ability tomake friends with everyone.
She was, she had a heart forthe Lord.
She, and I think the Lord justput in her heart him knowing
that her time here was short.
So she almost had this fervencyof sharing the word.
She shared the word with herteachers at school before before
(07:31):
I started homeschooling her.
She would share tracks, shewould share videos, she would
share the word of God witheverybody she met.
And she carried that on atschool.
I don't know.
That girl had the ability tointerrupt a basketball game and
drag everyone off to Biblestudy.
I I didn't do that, but she didit.
(07:54):
She was the kind of girl thatwould walk into the cafeteria
and see someone sitting in thecorner by themselves, and she
would walk up to them and ask ifshe could join them for lunch
and and and and drag them off toBible study.
And so her door was always, shewas an RA in the dorms, her
door was always open.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah.
Speaker (08:17):
And she just made friends with everybody she met.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Oh wow.
Those are rare people.
Speaker (08:27):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
So as her as her mom, what's what's one of your
favorite memories of somethingthat you guys did together,
Linda?
Speaker (08:37):
Jocelyn.
Well, we did a lot of outdoorthings.
Living in Montana hiking, we wewould go Mother's Day, probably
was one of our favorite things.
We would go hiking on Mother'sDay.
So we'd have our Mother's Dayhikes, camping, and just things
like that, spending time in theoutdoors and church.
Our church family was soamazing.
(08:58):
And Sundays, I lived forSundays.
They were just, it was thecountry church.
We would go to church, we wouldworship the Lord, we would
sing.
Afterwards, we'd have apotluck.
The kids were playing baseballout in the out behind the
church.
So we had a very stronghomeschool community there.
And yeah, those were the goodold days.
Those, those were good times.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah.
Sweet memories now.
Those are like treasures,aren't they?
Speaker (09:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah.
Speaker (09:27):
Sleepovers.
Yeah.
All the, you know, just all thethings.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, those it's it's so goodwhen you're when you've uh God
brings you to the point whereyou've you've been through all
of that acute pain and andtrauma of of losing your child,
and then at some point, and youdon't even really realize it as
it's happening, uh, the healingprocess is bringing you to a
(09:55):
place where you know it's likeall of a sudden you, you know,
one day you can laugh aboutsomething and you don't feel
guilty about it anymore.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Right.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
And your focus turns away from from death and loss to
life again.
And I mean for our listenerswho maybe are haven't gotten to
that place yet, they're still inthat acute season of grief.
Just hang on.
And if you'll lean into theLord and give this to Him and
(10:27):
let other people in to helpcarry your grief, you're gonna
get there.
And and you will experience joyagain.
The grief shouldn't go away, itdoesn't not not implying that
in the least.
It's just that you'll discoverthat joy and wholeness and
meaning and purpose can coexistwith that grief.
Speaker (10:48):
Yeah.
And you can learn that you Ihave learned myself that I I am
a better person since heraccident.
I am much more empathetic, I ammore sympathetic, I I have the
ability to listen better than Iever have before.
Because before I was alwaystrying to solve someone's
(11:11):
problem, realizing that, youknow, sometimes there's no
solution, that people just needto not even necessarily talk,
but sometimes just be.
Just yeah, just be.
And yeah, I I definitely, yeah,I don't know.
I I'm still learning, I think.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
And and and it's a lifelong learning process, isn't
it?
And you just touched onsomething that I think is really
important, Linda.
And and that is that uhsometimes people who are looking
in from the outside, you know,their family, their friends,
people that that we know atchurch.
And when we go throughsomething like this, they most
(11:54):
want to help, but most arethey're very uncomfortable
sometimes around us because theydon't know what to do with us.
And sometimes they feel like ifmaybe if they say the right
thing or if they do the rightthing, it'll help you feel
better.
And that it'll make a hugedifference.
(12:16):
And sometimes what they don'trealize is they're kind of
trying to figure out how to fixus, even if they're not
consciously you know doing itfor that reason.
And I love what you saidbecause sometimes it's good to
just come and be with thatperson.
You don't have to say anything,and believe me, there's nothing
(12:37):
that you can say that's goingto make it all better.
So that just let that be be areassurance that you don't have
to to come and and hang out andhave the right words to say.
That just should just let youfeel like you're off the hook.
Just be with them.
And if they want to talk, youknow, we'll talk.
(12:59):
And sometimes we just aren'tthere, we don't want to talk,
right?
Speaker (13:04):
Yeah.
I did have I had a few I had afew friends that lost their
children.
And after those are the onlyfriends that I wanted to be
with, and I didn't not because Iwanted to talk, not because I
wasn't ready to talk.
I did just want to be with thembecause I knew that they were
the only ones who could evencome close to understand what I
(13:26):
was going through.
So just knowing that they knewhow much I was hurting, even
just that brought me comfortbecause I knew I was not alone
and that I was not going to walkthis path alone.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Sure.
Well, that's that's reallyimportant because when something
like this happens, you you feelincredibly alone, and you can
feel very alone and isolated,even in a crowd.
And it's it's very difficult tounder to explain that to
somebody else who hasn't livedit.
(14:02):
And that's why it's um it thatwas such a blessing for you to
have some others who have livedit, because you don't have to
explain it to them, they get it.
And and it that in itself doesbring some reassurance that
you're seeing these people whohave not only experienced it,
(14:22):
but they've lived through it,and they're in, I mean, they've
they've come through that griefjourney, and they're now in a
place where they can can comealongside you.
Speaker (14:33):
And I could see that they were, you know, where they
were, that they were they wereliving again.
They were you know, I could seethat they had joy in their
lives.
I could so that I knew that Iwas not going to always feel
like in this dark, dark place.
I knew there was light at theend of the tunnel, but there was
(14:53):
one one lady that she'd losttwo children in a car accident.
She was my male lady, smalltown, so we all know every
everybody, but she was my malelady.
She brought me my mail just Idon't know, if maybe a week,
two, three, I don't know,afterwards.
She brought me my mail and Icaught her outside.
And and all I wanted to know,because she she asked me, is
(15:14):
there anything I can do for you?
Because that's what everybodyasks.
What can I do for you?
But the one thing I wanted thisgal to tell me was how long?
How long am I going to achethis bad?
How long am I going to feellike I can't get out of bed in
the morning?
How long before Jocelyn was thelast thing I thought about when
(15:35):
I went to bed?
And the first thing I thoughtabout in the morning, how I
wanted a date on my calendarthat I could circle so that I
could know that that's what I'mlooking for.
I got to get to this date, andthen everything's going to be
okay.
And her response to me was thatfirst year, you you got to get
through the first year becauseit's all the first.
The first birthday, the first,you know, the first anniversary
(15:58):
of the accident, the firstholiday without her, the first,
you know, just all the firsts.
And that was her response.
And that that that did give methat gave me a target date, as
long as I could circle somethingon the calendar to look to the
light at the end of the tunnel.
But that woman was so precious.
Just just I knew I yeah.
(16:20):
And and again, just evenbumping into her on the
sidewalk, just in the verypresence of her for the few
moments, just brought me animmeasurable amount of peace.
Because she was smiling.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah, exactly.
You can see life because youdon't when you're in that acute
season of grief, you don't feellife very much.
You just you feel like you'reexisting, but not really living.
And I would like for us tospend a few minutes talking
about that, Linda.
(16:56):
That's the the hard part ofgrief.
The hardest part of grief, Ishould say, I think is in that
early season.
Whether it be a year, somepeople say it's two years, some
people say it's longer.
The grief is for a lifetime,but the acuteness of it does
begin to fade over time, and itbecomes more like of a chronic
(17:20):
thing that we always live with.
But because people who arethere now in that raw season of
it sometimes feel like they'relosing their mind, and they feel
like life is never going to begood again, and they wonder if
they even want to survive it.
(17:41):
What was that like for you asfar as you know, because you and
I know that there's it impactsus physically, mentally,
emotionally, spiritually.
I mean, there's nothing aboutus that it doesn't touch.
So for you, what did that looklike?
Speaker (17:59):
The I felt like I had a traumatic brain injury.
I felt like I was losing mymind.
I couldn't eat, I couldn'tsleep, and it didn't just last
days, weeks, months.
It lasted a very, very longtime.
And so every single day wasjust getting through the day.
(18:19):
But I did, I really, reallydid.
I tried to find Jesus ineverything because he was my
lifeline.
I had Jeremiah 29, 11 was myverse that I hung on to and and
just repeated.
In fact, see, I've got it.
Let me see if I can.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Yeah, I was gonna ask you to to read that because
there are listeners today whowho aren't familiar with that
verse.
Speaker (18:45):
So what the version that I have on my wall, I'm
actually not sure whattranslation it is, but for I
know the plans I have for you,declares the Lord.
Plans to prosper you and not toharm you, plans to give you
hope in a future, because and togive you hope in a future, not
to harm you because that feltlike harm.
(19:06):
You could take my arms, mylegs, and that would have been
better than taking my child, ornot that the Lord took her, that
would have been better thanlosing my child.
But his plans were not to harmme, but to give me hope and a
future.
And I I clung on to the future.
I knew that I had a brightfuture.
(19:28):
I still have five childrenhere, but not only that, I still
have Jocelyn's legacy here, theone that she started, the one
that she began with her friends,with her acquaintances that she
met at school, um, people whocame to know the Lord from the
from what she had shared withthem.
(19:50):
Um I knew that I still hadthose things.
And so that helped me getthrough day by day.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Yeah, and and sometimes our our feelings and
emotions be betray that what youknow.
Um you know, you you knew that,and so you could hang on to
that.
You knew that God was going tocarry you through this, that you
could trust him.
It, you know, he it broke hisheart when Jocelyn died.
(20:22):
And we live in a fallen world,and bad things happen to good
people, bad things happen to badpeople, and bad things happen
to followers of Jesus.
And, you know, God doesn'tremove all of those things in
the in the world that we livein, but he promised he would go
(20:42):
with us through those things andthat he would carry us.
And it's also a reason that weneed to let other people in
after something like this sothat they can help carry that
grief, even though they can't,they're not living it, they can
help shoulder some of the theburden that you know that we go
(21:03):
through.
Speaker (21:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Yeah.
Speaker (21:05):
And I had a I had a I just had to have the ability to
remind myself over and overthat, you know, Job, where were
you when I laid the laid thefoundations of the earth?
God can see every single facetof every single possibility of
(21:26):
why what life could or wouldlook like.
And I trust that what he whathe did, what he allowed to
happen that day, January 6th,2013, that still my life it did
not alter the my life in such away that it was going to turn
(21:49):
out bad.
I mean, because I mean a lot ofpeople turn to drugs, turn to
alcohol, turn to I trust that hehad my future, that he was
giving me personally a future.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Yeah, and that's really important to be to try to
to remember to hang on to whatyou know.
And it it always takes me backto to Romans 8 28.
I think it's uh it's reallyit's so important for us to
understand when we're goingthrough something that is so
traumatic and it just absolutelyfeels like it's crushing us.
(22:28):
And it's that in that verse,Jesus said that, uh I'm sorry,
that Paul said that God will useall things for good in our
lives for those who know him andare called according to his
purpose.
It you know, when you lose achild, it's really hard to
(22:53):
imagine that God can do anythinggood with that, isn't it?
I mean, because it's not how wefeel.
You know, sometimes losing achild leaves us feeling angry
with God because we know thathe's sovereign and he could have
stopped it had he chosen to.
But he also had a bigger planthan what we're able to to even
(23:16):
begin to try to conceive of.
But he will use it for good,and you can't see it then, but
in retrospect, I'm sure that youcould probably say, just like
we can't, that we have seen God,we have witnessed God use
Ryan's death for good in thelives of other people.
(23:37):
And I know you've been in thisfor two years longer than we
have.
And so I know you've witnessedthis more than we have.
Speaker (23:46):
Well, first of all, for myself, I know that a lot of
people did struggle, but formyself, I did not struggle with
anger.
Not a single time, not once,not even towards the man who
caused the accident.
Even with him, I was filledwith grace and I prayed for him
because I knew that he did notcause that accident on purpose.
(24:08):
I knew I have sped before.
I have tried to get to frompoint A to point B recklessly
before.
Notice by the grace of God thatI did not cause a car accident.
I did have a lot of grace withhim.
And also the Lord gave me giftsalong the way that made
(24:29):
everything more bearable for me,such as when she was headed
back to Montana StateUniversity, it was right after
Christmas break.
And so she had all of herChristmas presents boxed up.
They were driving in a littleToyota pickup, and right behind
her, right behind her head, shehad a box of her little
treasures that she got forChristmas.
Sitting right on top was a verydelicate little glass teapot,
(24:54):
just like right reachable, justright there.
And that, so she heard theaccident caused a traumatic
brain injury.
And well, she actually diedinstantly.
But the little teapot that wasright there didn't even get, I
wish I would have, it's in mykitchen.
I wish I would have brought itdown to hold up to you, but it
very delicate glass.
It it did not get a chip, not ascratch on that thing.
(25:18):
One one hundredth of a secondwould have made all the
difference.
She would still be here if oneone hundredth of a second had
gone by and her head would havebeen there instead of here.
Just that that was a gift.
That was a gift because it didour days are numbered.
(25:40):
The Lord knows exactly when ourour days are over here on
earth.
And so, because of that, Itrusted him.
And then very shortly after heraccident, I already had people
messaging me telling me thatthey came to know the Lord
because of her accident, becauseof the words that she had
(26:03):
shared with them, it became realto them almost immediately upon
finding out the news.
And so those little things tome were they were gifts.
They were they were ball on theburn.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
But yeah, I can only imagine.
I mean, what incredible comfortthat must have provided.
And and just I'm sure that itjust filled your heart with such
pride that that your daughter,with the with the time that she
did have, not knowing, you know,that her life was was going to
(26:39):
be cut short, but that she choseto invest her time in the lives
of other people and wanted themto know Jesus.
Speaker (26:48):
Yeah.
Well, a funny story.
So she was taking nursing,right?
She, and a lesson, a funnystory, plus a lesson here.
She was taking nursing.
And when you are takingnursing, you really cannot
afford to get anything less thanan A.
It's got to be an A because youhave to, for your pre-nursing
classes, so that you could getaccepted into nursing school.
It's a very competitiveprogram.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah.
Speaker (27:10):
Well, the girl was not getting A's.
She got a couple C's and shehad to repeat some classes.
And the re reason she wasgetting not A's is because she
was investing so much in people.
She was going to all the Biblestudies.
She was dragging people alongwith her to the Bible studies.
And if she was, you know,dragging people to the Bible
(27:32):
studies, well, she had to gotoo.
So she was not studying herchemistry and anatomy and
physiology like she should.
But her dad were like, Jocelyn,you have got to buckle down and
get better grades.
You have to spend more time.
Maybe just not so many Biblestudies, but she good, you know,
she didn't listen to her dadand I.
(27:53):
And I can, I'm so grateful forthat because she knew it.
She was, and like I saidearlier, she had a fervency for
her work here.
And she was very serious aboutit.
She, it was just inside of her,she knew what she needed to get
done, and she did it.
And I am grateful for that,that she did not listen to us
and our and I know that thereare some other people who are
(28:15):
grateful for that too.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
And and parents who are grateful for that.
Speaker (28:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Jocelyn for sorry.
You're not Jocelyn, you'reLinda.
So Linda, what are some thingsthat you think helped you and
those that have helped you on anongoing basis along the way,
and you're learning how toprocess your grief in a healthy
(28:48):
way.
Because there are people thatare listening today, and
although we don't offer advice,we don't offer counseling
because we're not counselors.
You and I are we'reexperienced, wish that we
weren't.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
But we can share what helped us.
And so our listeners can maybethey can borrow from something
that helped you or that helpedme and applied in in their own
grief journey.
What would you say to that?
Speaker (29:19):
Well, for personally, what I did was I listened to a
lot of praise and worship musicthat helped.
I exercised a lot.
Actually, that may have notbeen the most healthiest, even
though it's exercise and itsounds healthy, it may not it
was self-destructive almostbecause I would run.
I would run until I could runno more.
And I was because I wanted tofeel physical pain to divert my
(29:43):
attention from the emotionalpain that I was that I was
feeling.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Yeah, sure.
Speaker (29:48):
I was looking for the endorphin high, and really I
really didn't find that.
So that and that hurt.
It was painful.
So I kind of I didn't do thatfor too long, um, maybe about
three months after her accident.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
But it was a distraction, wasn't it?
Speaker (30:01):
It was very much a distraction.
And I, you know, it consideringwhat else is out there, it was
it was a healthy distraction.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yes.
Speaker (30:08):
But no, actually, it wasn't.
It was not a healthydistraction, it was unhealthy.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It was but well, it could have been a whole lot less
healthy, that's for certain.
Speaker (30:16):
Yeah.
A praise and worship music,though.
I I don't remember which of herfriends I reached out to, but I
I downloaded her playlist ofher her praise and worship music
that she listened to.
And I listened to that a lot.
And then I I really just lookforward to heaven.
Not in a manner of where Iwanted to die, but I will I am
(30:41):
still very much looking forwardto heaven.
I am very much looking forwardto the reunion.
And so I did read the book.
Heaven by Randy Alcorn.
And that book brought me somuch comfort and peace.
I listened to Pastor Greg Loria lot because he also lost his
son in a car accident.
And so going back to the, youknow, just people who have
(31:04):
walked through it and got to theother side and they made it, so
to speak.
Looking to them is what helpedme get through through the the
grief.
And I was, and to this day, thebook of 2 Samuel is my favorite
book of the Bible because thatis what she was reading when she
died.
And I have her Bible and all ofher notes and everything.
(31:27):
And so I studied 2 Samuel overand over and over.
And that brought me peace andcomfort.
And so the word of God, praiseand worship music, and other
people that just really aligningmyself with people who knew my
pain is really what got methrough those months.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that.
And you know, I I concur witheverything that you said, Linda.
And, you know, it there aredifferent things that work
better for different people.
I think a lot of times we hearthat, you know, that music plays
a big role in helping people tojust in not necessarily in
(32:10):
processing the grief, but it'sjust like a balm that you were
describing a few minutes ago.
And it if that works for you,then by all means, but don't as
you're listening today, pleasedon't feel like that you have to
do something because somebodyelse did.
Because it it's not aone-size-fits-all, is it?
(32:32):
I mean, it's grief journeys arevery unique.
Speaker (32:36):
My husband processed completely different.
He started a bunch of newhobbies.
He he started gold panning andhe erected this giant aquaponics
system, which is actuallyhilarious because my husband, if
aquaponics is the relationshipbetween plants and fish.
(32:57):
And my husband hatesvegetables, and so he erected
this whole greenhouse and andstarted growing vegetables,
which he hates.
And so, yes, everybodyprocesses and gets through it
differently.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Yeah, and it's so common to hear a a mom talk
about her her how her husbanddealt with grief, and almost
predictably, it's exactly whatyou described.
It's doing practical things,things that that keep him
(33:35):
occupied, that keep him focused,uh, where he, you know, it's
like we described thatdistraction when you were
running hard.
It may not necessarily be theright answer, but it does
provide sometimes a necessarydistraction when it's so raw.
And it's just men and womenjust deal with it very
(33:58):
differently.
Speaker (33:59):
And you want to know the most ridiculous thing we
did.
We we went to the county fairthat so the accident was in
January.
Our county fair is always LaborDay weekend, and there were
baby pigs for sale.
We we drove a minivan at thetime, and we came, we brought
pigs home in our minivan.
Like, never have neither noneof us have ever had anything to
(34:19):
do with pigs.
We brought home pigs to raiseand had nothing, no, no pen, no
nothing to put them in when wegot here.
So they were they ran around inour yard and it took forever to
catch them.
And yeah, so we just did silly,silly things, but we still
raise them to this day, though.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
What in the world led you guys to come home with
pigs?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
I don't know.
We just thought, oh, let's dothis.
This might be fun.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Seemed like a good idea at the time, right?
Speaker (34:47):
So stick to some healthy distractions like
reading the word of God, andthen there's not so healthy and
bringing home our car smelledfor weeks after that.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Really?
Speaker (34:58):
Yes, pigs don't smoke it.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah, I can only imagine.
But hey, if it works, right?
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Yeah.
Well, we still still raisepigs.
And now our take them to thecounty fair.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
So that worked out.
But what in the what do youthink Jocelyn would think of
that?
Speaker (35:17):
I'm pretty sure she Jocelyn laughed about
everything.
I'm sure she was laughing.
She is like, oh my, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
I'm sure she probably was then.
So let's talk about somethingthat we kind of touched on a
little while ago, and that iswhere you are now.
You know, we talked about thatacute season of grief.
But you've come a long way.
It's been 12 years, as as wetouched on earlier.
(35:47):
And sometimes it's really easyto fall into the trap of going
into survival mode after ithappens.
Because it's it's the easiestthing to do sometimes.
We don't have to, you don'treally have to work at it.
You don't have to make a lot ofchoices or decisions that that
(36:09):
are gonna require a lot ofenergy, that are gonna require
stepping out of your comfortzone and that sort of thing,
because nothing's easy.
I mean, you know, let's faceit, nothing is easy after losing
a child.
But you know that your childwouldn't want you to stay there.
And you know that deep downinside you don't really want to
(36:31):
stay there either, but sometimesyou you choose you almost
choose by not choosing to dothat, and it it can uh it can
almost become your identity ifyou're not careful.
That you know the focus is whatyou've lost and what you'll
(36:52):
never have again.
And so to stay there in thatsurvival mode can be a very
lonely and miserable place.
So for you, what what do youthink where along the line do
you think that you startedmaking that turn towards towards
(37:14):
life again and being able tofocus on all the all the funny
and sweet and and and goodthings that you remember about
not only Jocelyn, but the thethings that you guys did
together and shared in lifetogether.
Speaker (37:31):
Yeah.
Well, I think before because Iand I'm I have a friend that's
here from well, she just leftthis morning, but from North
Carolina who just lost herhusband.
And I just asked her yesterday,are you starting to get those
little snippets of joy yet?
Because they do start there,and they start coming in little
(37:54):
snippets.
Yeah, you you do start feelinglike you're living again, and
and you do feel joy again.
It might be just a littlesnippet throughout the day, but
the Lord does give you thatthroughout the day, and they do
start to come more often, andand then you can speak their
(38:14):
name without crying, but here Iam 12 years later, and I can
speak her name and cry.
You never know what's coming.
You don't know if you're gonnacry, you don't know if you're
gonna laugh when you decide toshare a story, and it can go
either way, yeah.
And and I just I don't thinkit's ever gonna be any
different.
I think I can be in my 90s andstill talk about her and cry or
(38:38):
laugh and not know what it'sgonna be that day.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Yeah, I agree with that because I've talked to so
many people, some who have lostchildren over 20 years prior to
our conversation.
And you know, you can be havinga you know a really great
conversation with them, and youknow, you can see the joy all
over their face.
Somewhere in that conversation,something triggers the tears
(39:04):
and takes them right back to tofeel in those acute, you know,
that acute pain.
But it those are really thepain though.
Speaker (39:13):
It can be tears with joy, but the problem is it makes
people uncomfortable becausethen they're they feel like they
should have never said, Oh, Ishould have never mentioned her
name.
And and and that's sillybecause it's not like you're
ever gonna forget that yourchild, you know, you're never
gonna forget your child.
And so I think that people thatdon't understand the pain of
loss don't know that that it'sokay to say their name because
(39:39):
just because there's tears, it'sstill okay to the tears are not
always bad and they don'talways mean sorrow.
It's a funny thing because youcan be crying and feel the joy,
but you feel the sadness at thesame time.
I don't know how emotions thatother people feel.
I don't remember feeling thoseparticular emotions before our
(40:02):
loss.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
I'm so glad that you touched on that, Linda.
Excuse me.
Because I think a lot of peopledo struggle with whether or not
to say our child's name.
Because multitude of reasons.
I think primarily, like yousaid, it's because they're
afraid that if we say, if theysay our child's name, we're
(40:23):
gonna suddenly get really sadand we might start crying, and
it makes us hurt all over again.
And nothing, for the most part,I think for most people,
nothing could be further fromthe truth.
We love hearing our children'sname, especially when somebody
else uses it, right?
Because it means that they'vethey haven't forgotten.
(40:46):
And one of our greatest fearsas a parent is that people will
forget our child.
I mean, we certainly won't.
We certainly won't forget thatthey died, so it's not like
you're reminding us that ourchild died.
It that's not something youforget.
So take the risk, you know, askabout their child, use their
name, you know, ask them about agood memory.
Speaker (41:09):
And realize that these are the only memories that we
get.
We don't get to talk abouttheir future anymore.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Right.
Speaker (41:15):
We don't get any more memories, so all we have is the
past, and we have to be able totalk about that.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Sure.
Speaker (41:23):
That's all we have.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yeah, and and know that we're good with doing that.
You know, we really do want todo that, but you know, I don't
know about you, but you know,here we are 10 years later in
our grief journey.
And, you know, while themajority of people that we're
really close to uh know thatit's perfectly fine to talk
about Ryan, and we often do,often do.
(41:47):
But some people you can tellthey they're not gonna bring up
Ryan's name and they're notgonna ask us about what happened
or about his life or anything.
And for a long time I struggledwith that.
Kathy and I both struggled withthat because it was like we
felt like people didn't care.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
But we have learned that that's not the case for you
know for most people.
It's just that they'reuncomfortable and they don't
know what to do.
Yeah.
Speaker (42:18):
So you can't if you don't, if you haven't lived it,
you don't know.
There's no possible way forthem to understand.
I always said it was trying todescribe chocolate to somebody
who had never tasted it.
How can you describe whatchocolate if you're a chocolate
lover like me?
How can you describe chocolateto somebody who has never tasted
it?
You can't.
(42:39):
You there's not a way to getthem to understand.
You can't describe thefeelings.
You cannot.
Just in the same as like Icannot understand my male lady
who has lost not one child, buttwo.
I can't imagine that.
I can't.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
No, and you know, the truth of the matter is we I
mean, when you stop and thinkabout it, we wouldn't want
anybody else to understand whatwe've experienced.
Because it means they would hadto have experienced it too.
And you don't want that foranybody else.
Speaker (43:15):
No, the club that you don't want to belong to and you
don't want any new members.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
No, absolutely.
Well, here you are twelve yearslater, almost thirteen.
What does it look like todayfor you on your grief journey as
opposed to some of what we'vetalked about that it was like
11, 12 years ago?
Speaker (43:39):
Well, 12 years ago I had hopes and dreams of what my
future would look like.
So when we're grieving, youdon't just grieve the loss of
your child, you grieve the lossof what you thought your future
looked like.
You grieve futuregrandchildren, you grieve what
you thought would be cousinparties at grandma and grandpa's
(44:01):
house, you grieve so manythings that you grieve along
with the loss of your child.
I mean I I digressed and forgotyour question.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
No, that's okay because I think that's important
because a lot of people whohaven't been there don't
understand sometimes we the termgets thrown around future
grief.
And that's what Linda's beentalking about is you know, we we
also grieve not just what we'velost and who we've lost, but we
(44:31):
grieve what could have been.
You know, when some when afriend of our child gets
married, you know, we thinkabout our child and what could
have been.
Uh when they're havingchildren, we think about what
that could have been like forour child.
And and the list goes on and onand on.
You know, and and so those arethings that you have to deal
(44:54):
with as well that nobody toldyou about, and uh it doesn't
come in uh with the aninstruction manual that we
didn't get when you know when webecame parents.
Speaker (45:06):
And with our new our new grandbaby coming, she she is
a little girl, and our daughteris gonna name her Jocelyn.
And it's gonna be precious andit's it's gonna be sweet, but I
actually don't even know.
I'm happy that she's naming herthat.
I that fills my heart with joy.
But at the same time, I do knowit's there's gonna be some
(45:28):
pangs of of you know just notthat her name is Jocelyn, but
that her name is Jocelyn, andJocelyn's not here to know that
she has a little namesake.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Right.
Speaker (45:40):
And yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Oh well, well, you're gonna have to keep me updated
on this because I know that thisis you're getting ready to
enter into a very sweet season,and I think it is incredibly
sweet that she's gonna name herdaughter Jocelyn.
Yeah, and so you will you'llnever cease to hear the name
(46:03):
Jocelyn.
Speaker (46:05):
Nope, and I love that.
I do love that.
It'll yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
What a great way to honor her.
Speaker (46:11):
That's what I thought.
Yep.
Yeah, and I love that name.
Out of all my kids' names, thatwas my favorite name.
I love the name Jocelyn.
I think it's so beautiful.
I don't even know where I heardit.
It's it, you know, 34 yearsago.
It was not, I guess she's 33,but 33 years ago, it was not a
not a popular name.
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
I love it.
It is it is a beautiful name.
Well, Linda, thank you so muchfor for giving us a glimpse into
your life and your griefjourney.
Thank you for being so honestand transparent and just just
sharing the reality of what agrieving parent goes through,
but also the reality of of lifeas it as we begin to live again
(47:01):
and and can experience the kindof life that that that God
intends for us to live, filledwith hope and joy and peace and
and and wholeness again.
So thank you for doing that.
Speaker (47:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks for having me.
I do want to, I'm gonna put youdown for five seconds here.
Grace, I want to grab a pieceof artwork that she that she
made that I do want to leave youwith.
I thought I lost it.
I had a whole stack of theseand and I couldn't find it for a
second.
Let's see if I can can you seethat weird.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
No will.
Speaker (47:40):
It's a tree.
She she was an artist.
Let's see.
Uh she was an artist, and thisis a tree that is going.
So this is the Bible righthere, and the tree's roots are
going through the Bible.
And the verse on it is Psalms1.3.
Psalm 1.3, he shall be like atree planted by the rivers of
water.
Her her handwriting is not thegreatest, but that bringeth
(48:02):
forth his fruit in his season,his leaf shall not wither, and
in whatsoever he doeth, heprosper.
So, this particular piece ofartwork, this is on the back of
her funeral service, her funeralprogram.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
Okay.
Speaker (48:15):
Um, but the reason I chose this particular is she had
a lot of finished artwork andshe even had a lot of these that
were finished, but this one isnot finished.
This one, the coloring isthrough the trunk, through the
roots.
She didn't get to, she was, shegilded the Bible in in some of
her other artwork.
And then the leaves and thebranches and the leaves, she,
(48:37):
you know, she had them allpainted out.
But this one is just the trunkthat is colored and a few of the
a few of the leaves.
And so the reason I chose thisparticular artwork for her
program is because her story, ohgoodness, my cat.
Her story, even though she hasbeen gone for 12 years, is not
(48:57):
finished.
The Lord will finish thispainting.
The Lord will finish the workthat he started through her,
even though she is not here.
And and I love that.
I love I love that so much.
This painting will be completedand at the the day of Jesus
(49:22):
Christ when he comes for therest of us.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
That's beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
And for our listeners, if ifLinda's conversation, her story
today has has impacted yourlife, if uh if it has offered
you some encouragement and hope,then we are we are so thankful
(49:46):
for that.
And if you would like to leavea comment, there is a link on uh
Linda's episode description.
You can click on that.
And also you can go to ApplePodcast and leave a comment or
leave a review.
But we are very thankful againthat Linda joined us today and
(50:08):
shared her story.
Thank you so much, Linda.
Speaker (50:11):
Thank you for having me, Greg.
It was very nice to meet you,and it was wonderful visiting
with you.
And I appreciate theopportunity to share what I can
about Jocelyn
Speaker 3 (50:23):
I appreciate that.
Well, the the honor has beenall mine.
G
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