November 25, 2025 • 57 mins
In this heartfelt conversation, Melanie DeSimone shares her journey of grief after the tragic loss of her son, Dominic. She discusses the profound impact of child loss on family dynamics, the importance of community support, and the lessons learned through her experience. Melanie emphasizes the need for compassion, understanding, and practical strategies for navigating grief, while also highlighting her ministry, Heartache and Hope, which aims to comfort and support other bereaved parents.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Well, hello and welcome back.
On today's episode, I'll betalking with Melanie De Simone,
founder of the Heartache andHope Ministry, and author of a
very popular blog entitled TheLife I Didn't Choose.
Recently, Melanie has startedhosting small intimate retreats
(01:10):
for other grieving moms.
She has also been a guest onseveral podcasts, as well as
being a gifted speaker.
That's her life today.
But in the spring of 2014, itlooked very different.
In April of that year, Melanie'sprecious 23-year-old son Dominic
was killed in a motorcycleaccident.
(01:32):
I hope you'll listen as sheshares about her grief journey
and how God's grace andfaithfulness carried her through
that trauma that trauma and painto a life today filled with
meaning and purpose.
And now here is my conversationwith Melanie.
Welcome, Melanie.
(01:53):
It is so good to have you on ourpodcast today.
Thanks for being here.
SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate the opportunity.
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
Oh, absolutely.
It is my honor to have you herewith us today.
Before we dive into your story,Melanie, why don't you just take
a couple of minutes and tell ourlisteners a little bit more
about you?
Anything you want to share,family-related, work-related,
ministry-related, just in thatcouple of minutes, and then
we'll get into the uh we'll do adeeper dive after that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
So my name is Melanie D.
Simone, and my husband and Ihave been married for over 40
years.
We live on a small homestead inrural Alabama.
We have four children, threethat walk the earth with us and
one that's in heaven.
I have been a shepherd for over25 years, both literal and
(02:47):
figurative.
I would say my figurativeshepherding began many years
before that, both with my ownchildren and through lay
ministry in the differentchurches that we belong to.
One of my children, my oldestson is a veterinarian.
My daughter, who is the oldestchild, she's a nurse.
And our youngest son is alsoworking in my oldest son's vet
(03:10):
clinic.
Dominic, the son that's inheaven, is the middle son.
And my husband's an architectand a structural engineer.
He re-retired in 2020, got oneof those sweet uh post-COVID
deals.
And so our days are mostlyfilled with taking care of our
place, our home, and a lot ofoutdoor activities.
(03:32):
I have horses and donkeys still.
Uh, lost my last goat lastwinter time.
I have cats.
Yes, I am a cat lady.
And um I do a lot of writing andphone counseling and in-person,
all lay counseling.
I'm not a licensed professionalcounselor, counseling over the
(03:53):
phone and in with people.
And that's really how my daysare spent most of the day.
You know, I would say I spendabout four hours every day
either writing, texting,messaging, and or talking to
someone on the phone.
SPEAKER_01 (04:06):
Yeah, that's a busy life.
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
It is.
We have two grandchildren too.
I should I can't leave mygrandkids out.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Ah, how old are they?
SPEAKER_02 (04:15):
They're six and three.
And they're both boys, andthey're growing up in the
playing in the dirt and havingfun.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
Like my That is great.
That's great.
Too many kids never have thatopportunity.
Kind of grew up the same waybecause my grandparents lived on
a farm in North Carolina.
So I always had theopportunities to hunt and fish
and just play in the dirt and dojust do stuff on the farm that
you can't do in town.
SPEAKER_02 (04:44):
No, you can't do it in the suburbs.
It's uh, you know, I have aclothesline, you know, all the
things, all the things that HOAsallow.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Exactly.
Yeah, you have a lot morefreedom in the country.
unknown (04:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
And it was interesting too.
Your your husband retired in2020, and I I did too, three
weeks before COVID lockdown.
So it was an it was aninteresting time to step away
and be sequestered away for awhile.
SPEAKER_02 (05:12):
It was.
It really was.
Our family weathered that.
My father, my mother had died in2019, and so my father was in
his 80s, and we were verycareful, you know, to try not to
spread, especially in thoseearly days when nobody knew
really specifically how it wasbeing spread, or what, you know,
or how to treat it well.
(05:33):
So anyway, we we spent those wespent those months doing a lot
of fun family things.
We kind of made they werereferring to them as pods back
then, you know, like the fewpeople that you would get
together with, you know.
Right.
And we did we did a lot ofin-person activities, but we did
it with just the few of us.
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
We kind of did the same thing.
We had a uh we had a small lifegroup that you know we did life
with.
And so we've we figured out away after the first few weeks to
ke to continue doing thatbecause you know it's it brings
a lot of richness to life uhwhen you're able to live you
(06:11):
know in the context of communitylike that.
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
Aaron Powell We're designed for community.
I mean, that's one of the thingswhich we'll we'll talk about
later as we talk further, butthat's one of the greatest
blessings in this journey is tofind a place where you feel like
you have safe community.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
You are absolutely right about that.
And having both of us havinglived through the loss of a
child, probably understand thevalue of community better than
most, because that's when youreally discover the value.
SPEAKER_02 (06:46):
I think that's absolutely true.
SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
Well, Melanie, why don't we spend a few minutes
having you just tell ourlisteners about your son
Dominic?
Uh, because everything, youknow, you and I had a
conversation a couple of weeksago.
We talked about just uhdifferent things, and we of
course talked about Dominic.
And he sounds like an incredibleyoung man.
(07:11):
Sounds like somebody that mostof our listeners would probably
enjoy meeting.
So just tell us a little aboutand then and tell us a little
about the impact that you knowthat he made on who you are
today.
SPEAKER_02 (07:22):
Absolutely.
So I'm gonna start by explainingthat when I talk about Dominic's
characteristics, I talk aboutthem in the present tense
because I believe with all myheart that he continues to live
and be who he was created to be,even in heaven.
SPEAKER_01 (07:38):
So I love that.
I love that, and I appreciatethat.
SPEAKER_02 (07:43):
You know, so so Dominic, Dominic is a vibrant
person.
He has a cutting sense of humor.
That was one of his thing, oneof his attributes that sometimes
got him in trouble with friendswhen they didn't realize he was
joking.
Uh he died in a single vehiclemotorcycle accident, April 12th,
2014.
So it's been almost 11 and ahalf years in October, it'll be
(08:05):
11 and a half years.
He was a law student at theUniversity of Alabama, almost
completed his second year of lawschool, and through generous and
kind acts of his dear friendsand the law school, I actually
received his diplomaposthumously.
He was also honored at thegraduation when they graduated.
Well very special.
(08:27):
But he was he was a fun person,a funny person, a wise beyond
his years kind of person.
He was a good friend to people.
The day that he was killed at 1a.m.
on Saturday morning.
So Friday, the day before he wasactually killed, even though it
(08:48):
was in the middle of the night,he had replaced an alternator on
a friend's car because, contraryto what a lot of people think,
law students are really poor.
And so he basically he was agood mechanic and he would say,
you know, you get the part, I'llput it in.
So that's what he had done thatday before.
He shared whatever he had.
That's a characteristic whichI'm proud to say is common in
(09:11):
all of my children.
If they have it and you need it,they give it.
He was really smart, he was verypersistent, and he was athletic,
and we miss him very much.
You know, he he we used toalways say the D S bones come as
a committee because wehomeschooled.
And so our lives were veryintertwined with one another,
(09:34):
and our church slash ministrylife was very intertwined with
our home life.
There was not a lot ofsegmentation in our lives.
We just did a lot of thingstogether.
He was also a talented musician.
He was a drummer primarily, buthe could play pretty much any
instrument that he ever touchedand served in worship bands.
And we just really miss himbecause one of the things that I
(09:58):
think people don't understandabout child loss is that the
loss of the single individual isa loss of multiple
relationships.
SPEAKER_01 (10:09):
And the would you would you repeat that, Melanie?
Because I want to make sure ourlisteners heard that.
SPEAKER_02 (10:15):
Yes.
So the loss of the singleindividual is a loss of multiple
relationships.
So he was the he was a middlechild in every way.
He was the third born in ourfamily.
Our daughter's at the top.
We have three sons, but he wasso he was a middle child
technically, but he was also themiddle son.
He was the middle brother.
(10:36):
So that made him like a doublemiddle, uh, you know, and and
when I lost him, I lost my son.
When his siblings lost him, theylost their brother.
When my husband lost him, helost his son.
How I related to Dominic isalways going to be different
than how each other each of theother people in my family
(10:59):
related to him.
Because not only do we lose thatperson, we lose who we are
reflect reflected back to usfrom that person, if that makes
sense.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
So there's it does.
That's that's such a very that'ssuch a wise perspective,
Melanie.
Thank you for sharing that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
And I think that sometimes when people say I lost
myself or I lost a piece ofpiece of myself, I think that's
really what they're saying.
So Dominic was a great debater.
He was in law school.
He was also a political sciencemajor.
Well, I am a political scienceand a psychology major.
So he and I had a uniqueconnection in that way that he
(11:42):
didn't have with anybody else inthe family.
You know, we would talk aboutcertain things that other people
didn't talk about, and we couldtalk about it from different
perspectives.
His debate skills sometimesfrustrated all of us because he
could also be argumentative.
But the point is that whatever,whatever way, just like the
Bible says iron, yeah ironsharpens aren't, you know, man
(12:04):
sharpens man as iron sharpensiron, right?
I lost that sharpening action.
So I I I no longer have accessto that.
And that makes a hugedifference.
I mean, you know, we I knowwe'll get into the pain and the
loss and the sorrow and all thatstuff, but the actual part of
(12:24):
who I was that he sent back tome is lost to me forever until
now.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
I understand that uh at a very personal level because
not only, you know, as a dad,you know, when we lost Ryan, I
lost my son, but I also lost whoI consider to be my best friend
at the time.
And so it it it does representmore than one form of loss.
SPEAKER_00 (12:55):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
As you said very well.
So we know from personalexperience that losing a child
does change us.
And it changes us sometimes veryprofoundly.
So for you, Melanie, I'd justlike for us to talk a few a few
minutes about what that lookedlike for you.
(13:18):
Because a lot of times you'llhear parents who have lost a
child talk about their beforeand after life.
So let's just talk a little bitabout that.
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
But you know, you go through a suburb and you see
that one overgrown yard andyou're like, well, don't those
people ever cut their grass?
And now my first the first thingI think of is what happened.
Did somebody die?
Is somebody in the hospital?
You know, what happened to themthat keeps them from doing what
I know they've been doing allalong, you know, if it's
(14:12):
someplace you pass frequently.
So that's a change that I knowabout myself.
Dominic was a very bold person.
And I would say that before hedied, I was much less likely to
have good boundaries, much lesslikely to speak out sometimes
about what I need from anotherperson.
(14:33):
And I don't mean that in justlike a selfish way.
I just mean in a in a healthyway.
You know, I'm sure, you know, Icould be a doormat.
And so that's one thing, but Icouldn't be because I couldn't
be a doormat and survive hisdeath.
So that was really where therubber meets the road, you know.
So I call pe I call these peoplelife-sucking forces.
(14:55):
And I'm sorry if that offendsanybody, but yeah, but we all
have them.
And before I would just alwayspick up the phone or always do
or always go, okay, sure, I'lldo that for you.
And I learned that I couldn't dothat anymore because I literally
did not have it.
It was, it was literally liketrying to ask a car to run on
empty, no gas, no fuel.
You just but you still got togo.
(15:16):
So I learned about that changedme.
Another thing that changed wasit changed the direction of my
own personal ministry beforewe'd been doing a lot of other
different kinds of things inchurches and stuff.
And I really felt like that theLord was calling me to comfort
others with the comfort I hadreceived, and that this was a
(15:36):
finer, more refined, pointedministry.
It still includes things likeBible studies and other things,
but it's predominantly aboutreaching out to bereaved
parents.
And I also found that I could bea really good advocate because,
you know, again, Dominic was inlaw school.
And I think sometimes I'mchanneling him in that respect
(16:00):
that I will stand up for anybodyanywhere to have the right to
grieve as they need to, as longas they're not hurting someone
else or hurt harming themselves.
I will absolutely stand betweenthem, you know, and anybody or
anything to say, hey, you theyget to do this.
This is how it is.
You you don't get to decide forthem how they're gonna go
(16:20):
through this this experience.
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
I think it drew our family closer in certain ways.
It also all of my children wereadults when Dominic died.
The youngest was 22.
And uh and I think it changedmaybe how I relate to my adult
children because even though welike I said, we homeschooled and
(16:45):
we had shared a lot of things, Ihad losses in my life as an
adult while they were growing upthat they didn't share.
But now we shared this loss asadults, and I could see how it
was shaping them, and I had tomake space for them to grieve as
was appropriate and safe andhelpful and healthy for them,
(17:09):
even if it cost me something tomake space for them, if that
makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (17:16):
It does.
And I would just just ask, youyou said that it changed the way
in some respects that how yourelated to your other children.
That that does happen to anyfamily who has lost a child if
there are more children in thefamily that are living.
(17:37):
So what uh people may bewondering, so how did you handle
that, Melanie?
Because, you know, we know thatsiblings who have lost another
brother or sister are known asthe forgotten mourners.
SPEAKER_02 (17:52):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:53):
And there are a lot of reasons why that exists, but
it is a it is the reality.
I mean, we watched what ourdaughter went through, and she
was 10 years older than Ryan.
SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
So how did that look for you and how how do you
relate to your living childrennow as a result of that?
SPEAKER_02 (18:16):
Well, I think there's there's about four or
five key points that I usuallyshare with parents who do have
earthbound children.
Is number one is I am I told Ihad two of my kids were here
when the deputy knocked on thedoor when Dominic died.
And I told them immediately, Isaid, number one, we're not
(18:38):
making a saint out of Dominic.
Because sibling rivalry does notdie because a child dies.
And we would like for it to, butit doesn't.
And and it's too easy to makethat unreachable child into
something he or she is not andnever was, because they are no
(18:58):
longer present to irritateanyone or you know, or say the
wrong thing or do the wrongthing, you know.
And and and as time passes, wetend to paint it with a rosy
glow.
And so so that was the firstthing.
That's the first thing is torecognize that your children
that are still here with you arestill looking to you to provide
(19:20):
guidance and support and love,even though you may feel like
you don't have it to give to anyof those things to give.
Now, does that mean you're notgonna fail?
Absolutely not, because you'regoing to, because that's the
nature of parenthood.
You failed some in the past,you're gonna fail some in the
future, is how it happens, youknow.
(19:41):
So I would say number one, youknow, be careful not to make
your child, the the missingchild or children, some kind of
saints that the other childrenfeel like they have to live up
to.
SPEAKER_01 (19:51):
Happens very easily.
SPEAKER_02 (19:53):
It does.
And so a very practical way ofdoing that in our particular
house, and I'm not I'm notsaying it's necessary or that
it's the best practice for otherpeople, but we do have pictures
of Dominic, but except in acouple of a couple of kind of
unobtrusive places, his picturesare always couched within like
(20:13):
the wall of all the familypictures.
Sure.
They're not, I don't have aseparate section just for him.
And then I I always tell parentsthat my fear cannot circumscribe
my other children's lives.
So are we scared?
Do I, you know, I mean, it waslike three years.
Our doorbell doesn't ring muchbecause we do live in a rural
(20:34):
area, but it was like threeyears before I could hear the
doorbell and not literally jumpout of my skin because the
deputy did ring the doorbell.
And so yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (20:44):
And I was I was just gonna throw this in for somebody
else who who is in an earlyseason of grief.
And they had that knock on thedoor, they had that phone call,
and now when that happens, it'syou know the response is almost
the same, and that goes on for awhile.
(21:05):
And that that's because the kindof trauma that you went through
yields symptoms that youtypically find with PTSD.
And sometimes parents end upwith PTSD for a while.
SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
100%.
I would I would absolutelyagree.
And and one of the things thatgosh, we can go down so many
different roads.
One of the things that you haveto learn, and this is this does
this does refer back to the fearnot circumscribing your
children.
One, you can put in place somevery practical things like our
(21:38):
family.
If if someone in our family istraveling, you know, they text,
landed, got, you know, got whereI was going.
They give you, you can we cancontact one another.
I do not have life 360 on all mygrown children.
That I I respect their privacy.
But that may be very, veryappropriate for younger children
with families that that haveyounger children.
That's 100% appropriate.
(21:59):
But, and I tell my kids upfront, I say, you know, I'm not
trying to run your life, but Ineed to know that you're safe
when you arrive somewhere orwhatever, or at least have a
contact for somebody who's goingto be with you, something like
that.
So there's some practical thingsyou can do.
And then there's other thingsthat you can do for your own,
for your own body when you'retalking about bodily responses.
You know, anxiety and fear,especially if they're a result
(22:23):
of some kind of trauma, it maynot quite rise to the level of
what would be diagnosed as PTSD,but it's very similar.
And we have we have to learn tounderstand that because our body
reacts, it doesn't mean that thedanger is truly close to us,
because that's like our littlereptile brain.
You know, it goes, oh no,something's gonna come after us,
(22:46):
but or something bad's gonnahappen.
And you have to look around andsay, okay, really truly, is
there danger here?
So one of the things I had to dowas come to the grips to the
fact that it's no more likely,and and I know that I know
several families who haveexperienced child loss multiple
times, and it does happen, butit is no more likely to happen
(23:08):
today than it was the day beforeDominic died.
It's just the way it is.
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
And it's hard to think of it that way for a long
time.
SPEAKER_02 (23:19):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
You know, because that just seems, I mean, that's
that's uh it it just leaves thatindelible impression in your
brain.
And so you react for a long timeinstead of thinking through how
you're gonna react.
And that applies to our ourchild our living children as
well, as you said.
(23:41):
And I I've certainly experiencedthat and just thinking in a more
you know, dad in our roles asdads, we tend to be the
protector and defender of ourfamilies.
And man, I'll tell you, it itreally makes my wife and I both
more defensive and protective ofour daughter.
(24:02):
And like you said, when she goessomewhere out of town
particularly, we do like to askher to send us a text, let us
know you're okay.
You know, it's not like we dwellon it.
And I know that I hear I hearyou saying that, but sometimes I
think it's probably a littledifficult for our living
(24:23):
children to understand thatlevel of uh of intensity about
their safety.
SPEAKER_02 (24:30):
But I think that goes, that goes as we're talking
about siblings, I think thatgoes to a general principle of
how to deal with grief withinour families and also within our
friend, or especially our closefriendships, is transparency,
authenticity, and honesty.
So we need to, with our with ourchildren, we need to say, hey, I
(24:52):
realize your peers may not beasked to to be under this kind
of scrutiny or to be or to besending these texts or making
these phone calls, but it'sreally important to me and I
would really appreciate it.
And it's a small thing, and I'mnot gonna, I'm not gonna
micromanage you.
(25:13):
I just want to know your yourlocation or whatever, you know,
because like I'm sure with yourown daughter, you don't ask her
then to give you an itinerary ofyou know where she's going for
dinner and all the other stuff.
It's just like, okay, you know,I my plane arrived up safe, and
that and then we do the samething.
And then the two other things Iwould say about your children
(25:34):
and and I is there's got to bespace that is that is safe for
them to do their own grief work.
So it it's not okay for us todemand because I hear this
sometimes from other bereavedparents, they want their living
(25:56):
children to participate in aparticular thing, you know,
maybe some kind of memorialthing or doing something.
And if that doesn't feel good tothem, if that doesn't feel right
to them, if that doesn't feelsafe to them, you've got to
respect that because they're ofcourse too, you know.
And then the final thing is letthem tell their own story.
(26:17):
So now if you've got if you'vegot school age children that are
very young, it would be entirelynot only appropriate, but uh but
correct to let their teachersknow, you know, especially if
something happened over thesummer or if they're going to a
new school or they're gettingnew teachers, you know.
I just want you to know thatSusie lost her brother last
(26:38):
year, and there may be these aredates like maybe birthdays or
you know, around the holidays oranniversaries of death that I'd
like you to be aware of.
And that's appropriate.
But if you've got children thatare, you know, in their teens
and going forward, it's up tothem if they identify as
(26:58):
siblings lost survivors.
And it's not right for us toalways identify them on social
media or other things withouttheir permission.
You know, let them tell theirown story.
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
Totally agree.
Totally agree.
Uh and uh as referring back towhat you said a few moments ago,
Melanie, when you talked aboutbeing honest and open and
transparent, I think uhparticularly for our maybe
younger children or youngerteenagers who have lost a
(27:33):
sibling, they need to, we needto help them understand that
we're not the same people thatwe were before.
If they notice changes in us forpositive or negative, that it
it's a part of what happens inthe grieving process.
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:55):
And yes, we're the same people, but in some ways,
no, we're not the same people.
Because I think if theyunderstand it, yeah, then then
they can handle it and respond alot better.
SPEAKER_02 (28:07):
And also we're not the same family we were.
Again, back to the wholerelationship thing.
So everything shifted.
And so so you've got they theyno longer have the same family
that they had the day before.
It's a whole different family.
Everybody's changing and parentsare changing.
And and even young children canunderstand when we say to them,
(28:31):
you know, mommy's sad.
I know you want me to go to thisthing, whatever it is.
I don't think I can do that.
Would it be okay if AuntSo-and-so goes with you in
instead?
Would that be okay with you, youknow?
And and you can you can makearrangements, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (28:47):
Absolutely, of course.
But yeah, it does, it doesaffect the dynamics of families,
even extended families.
SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (28:56):
Oh, definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
Yeah.
It you you learn as you go howfar reaching that loss actually
is, because it touches far morelives than we think about.
And and that's it's just alearning process.
And you know, we have to learnto give grace to each other and
and be understanding becauseeverybody's journey is
(29:20):
different.
SPEAKER_02 (29:21):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (29:21):
Do you do you think that having lost Dominic has
made you a better person in inany way?
SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
I think there's things I've learned in the
process of grieving him.
And I'm always very careful tolet parents know that I do not
believe that God visits childloss on us to teach us anything.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
I agree.
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
You know, and and some people can fall into that
mindset, like we were talkingabout, are what we think and how
we react instead of responding.
And so a huge part of grief workis working through these
different feelings.
So, but yes, I do think I Iguess the only the best way I
could say is that I haveexpanded both in my spiritual
(30:10):
life and in my emotional lifeand in my personal life.
I've I've expanded in ways thatI don't think I would have if I
had not lost Dominic, because Iwouldn't have been forced to,
because we're not, yeah, we westay in our comfort zones as
long as we can, and that'snormative human behavior.
SPEAKER_01 (30:31):
Totally true.
SPEAKER_02 (30:33):
So I I feel like I feel like I'm a I feel like I'm
a more welcoming person.
We always had kind of an opendoor policy in our home, but I
think on a very personal levelthat I will when I I see people,
just like I said about the grassthing.
I I tend to extend more grace.
(30:53):
And I think that that's whoJesus has called us to be, you
know?
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
Yeah, I agree.
And and sometimes we don't learnand expand in that direction, as
you were just just saying,unless we go through something
that is very that challenges usto the very core of who we are.
But I agree with you.
I think it does give us agreater capacity to love, to be
(31:21):
compassionate and kind and andmore understanding and less apt
to be judgmental.
It doesn't, I'm not saying itgoes away.
We don't become perfect people,don't mean that at all.
But I think it does, I think Godcan use that to round off the
rough edges of who we are, andand and we can become a better
(31:45):
version of who we were before.
SPEAKER_02 (31:47):
Well, I think about the story in the New Testament
where Peter has the dream aboutall the different food coming
down from heaven because he'sbeen ugly and you know he he he
went back with the Judaizers,the early Christians that were
Judaizers, and so God gives himthis dream.
Well, you you think you can'teat pork.
Let me show you what all you caneat, you know.
And to me, that's that's kind ofhow I feel, you know, that
(32:12):
through meeting so manydifferent parents with so many
different backgrounds, yes, weshare child loss, but we don't
we don't share a lot of otherthings, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (32:23):
Um and it's made me stop and think and be just be so
much more able and willing tomeet people where they were,
where they are, rather not wherethey were.
And I think about the book ofJohn, you know, it's encounter
after encounter and afterencounter between Jesus and
(32:44):
individuals.
And each time he meets thatperson exactly at their point of
need, he welcomes them, he lovesthem, he extends grace and
mercy, and he he uses where theyare to help them see who he is.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (33:05):
And and he does, but he takes each one gently to that
place, you know, and that's Ithink I'm more like that now
than I used to be.
SPEAKER_01 (33:13):
Yeah, I have uh in conversations I've had with
other grieving parents, I wouldsay that most share that same
that same perspective, Melanie.
And I know it's God has usedthat in our lives in ways that
we never would have even thoughtto ask about, you know.
It's like you said a few minutesago, sometimes we we love our
(33:35):
our comfort zone.
We love that that littlepredictable zone of life that we
are involved in, and we wouldn'tthink about asking God to send
something that he could use tomake us better.
So in his wisdom, coupled withhis grace and his kindness, he
(33:56):
does allow us to experiencethings that we would have never
in a million years thought wouldhappen.
But he can also use that forgood, not only in our lives, but
in the lives of other people,much like what you're doing
today by sharing your story andbeing transparent about what it
(34:17):
did to your life and yourfamily's lives.
SPEAKER_02 (34:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (34:21):
Yeah.
You know, Melanie, I think a lotof people who maybe people are
listening today, I should say,who are in a much earlier season
of grief than we are.
It's been 10 years for us, 11years, 11 and a half years for
you guys.
When you think back to thoseearly weeks and months, are
(34:42):
there things that that you couldshare with with our listeners
that helped you?
Granted, it's not cookie cutter,and what helped you might not
necessarily help somebody else,but it might.
And sometimes I think peoplewonder, you know, how am I ever
going to feel any better?
(35:03):
Is this ever going to stophurting so much?
And sometimes there are thingsthat we can do, but our brains
are so muddled in those early,in that early season that we
might not have thought about it.
But if somebody shares whathelped them, who knows, maybe it
(35:25):
could help.
SPEAKER_02 (35:27):
I'm a huge believer in the uh uh idea and the truth
that's both scriptural and evenif you aren't a believer, it's
it's borne out by cognitivecognitive behavior therapy, is
that we can choose certainthings even even when we feel
(35:50):
like we can't.
And sometimes they're teeny,tiny, tiny little things.
So I would say in the beginningthat what helped me in terms of
personal practice, you know, ofcourse, having friends and
family and people that camealongside, that was huge.
But if you're talking about whatdid I do in a day that maybe
(36:12):
helped me, one is I journaled.
And there's lots of good griefjournals out there that if you,
if you're not the kind ofperson, I had journaled for
years.
So it was very natural for me tocontinue to just keep writing.
But if you're the kind of personthat's never journaled, you can
find prompts online or you canbuy one of the one of the
(36:33):
scripture-based grief journalingbooks that are out there.
And so writing down what thatdoes, and this this goes to
taking our thoughts captive,when when you just are thinking
about stuff, we've all had thisexperience that when we are
thinking, it's kind of like likea foggy cloud in our brains.
(36:54):
But when we're forced to tellsomeone else about it, which is
also like journaling, you couldalso just tell somebody about
it.
When you're forced to put intowords what's floating around in
your head, you are suddenly muchmore aware of exactly what
you're feeling, exactly whatyou're thinking.
And then you can evaluate it.
Is this aligned with truth?
(37:16):
So one of the things that Ialways tell parents is that
feelings are real, but feelingscan lie.
SPEAKER_01 (37:22):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (37:23):
I can feel terrible, I can feel this is never gonna
end, I can feel that God doesn'tsee me, I can feel that no one
loves me, and that this is thatI'm never gonna survive this.
But that is, those are alllegitimate.
But that's not that's not true.
You know, you can survive, youknow, you it will, it doesn't,
(37:46):
it it actually will end inheaven.
On earth, it's not gonna end.
So that's another thing I willtell parents.
You get stronger and better ableto carry the load.
And if you do the work thatgrief requires, you can rewire
your body, you can rewire yourbrain to some extent, even in
the face of great trauma.
And if you need professionalhelp to do that, please, please,
(38:06):
please seek that help, whetherit's medication or counseling or
whatever.
But a lot of us can do thisthrough personal practices.
So one was journaling, the otherone was physical activity.
So one of the things we'recreated mind, body, spirit, and
soul.
So our bodies respond tosunlight.
Our bodies respond to physicalmovement.
(38:28):
So if I would find myself in agrief spiral, I might journal
for a while.
And then when I felt like thatwas not being fruitful anymore,
if I'm sitting, I stand up.
If I'm standing up, I walk.
If I'm in a certain room, I goto another room.
That was very helpful.
Not ruminating as best as Icould, you know, at the very,
(38:49):
very early days, a lot of usjust we just want to hold the
picture, or for me, it was myson's pillows from his bed.
He had an apartment.
We want to just hold thosethings, and that's appropriate
and good and helpful.
But if you find that two, three,six, eight weeks down the road
that you can't move your chairor out of your bed, let someone
(39:13):
help guide you to a morefruitful way of not moving on.
Nobody, I don't want anybody tothink I'm saying telling them
moving on or get over, but youcan move forward because this is
the thing.
The sun's gonna rise, the sun'sgonna set, and the calendar's
gonna keep going.
If you have other children inyour life, their lives are gonna
(39:33):
continue to move.
And if you if you sit in thatone place and you don't make any
attempt, and some of us needpeople to help us make the
attempt.
I know some of us are soprofoundly broken, you may have,
you may enter grief already withsome kind of major depressive
(39:55):
disorder or anxiety disorder.
You need to get with yourhealthcare professional and
discuss that because medicationscan be adjusted, counseling can
be added.
So journaling, physicalmovement, having a plan for the
day.
I'm a big write things downperson.
So at the time I had a largeherd of goats and my I had brain
(40:16):
fog, grief brain, it wasterrible.
I couldn't remember things.
And so I would set out a littlethree by five card for myself.
I either did it first thing inthe morning or I did it the
night before and put it next tomy coffee pot.
And I would have threenon-negotiable things I had to
do that day.
Now, at the very beginning, theywere things like go feed the
(40:37):
goats, because that needed to bedone every day.
And it was not, I mean, it wassomething I should have been
able to do anyway, but it seemedinsurmountable, like an
insurmountable task initially.
But as of time went on, one ofthe things I did that first
summer was I sewed bookmarks.
Somebody had given me a bunch offabric scraps, and I set my
(40:58):
sewing machine up on my kitchentable, and I was like, I am not
going to bed until I make threenew bookmarks every day.
Now, people can laugh at that orwhatever, and it was a, it was
just, it was just busy work.
But it but as when I'm sewingand I'm trying to get that seam
straight, I can't also beactively anxious.
SPEAKER_01 (41:17):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (41:18):
You know, a another thing that I did was I read good
Christian books on grief.
One of the first ones I read wasuh Lament for a Son by Nicholas
Woltersdorf.
And I loved it because it was inshort bursts.
It was easy to read, and as weall know, our attention, most of
us at when we're grieving ourthe loss of a child, our
(41:40):
attention span is really short.
So I could do that.
I could do that.
Another one is A Grace Disguisedby Jerry Sitzer.
I had read uh Grief Observedpreviously by C.S.
Lewis, and I will caution peoplein reading that one.
He's a he's the kind of writerthat every word for another
(42:00):
writer would be worth aparagraph.
So, so if you if that ischallenging to you, just set it
down, come back to it later, nota problem.
I would also say if you're able,you know, read some scripture.
I know that for myself, I wasdown, I had just come through a
(42:20):
three-year period where I hadgone through the Bible literally
one chapter at a time because Ihad decided that I had I'd
studied scripture for so long,read it so many times, it was
kind of getting rote.
If it sounds terrible, but itwas.
And so I slowed myself down, youknow.
And God brought a lot of versesto mind when I was journaling.
(42:41):
And sometimes I would look themup, but I was not reading long
passages of scripture in theearly days.
SPEAKER_01 (42:48):
Right.
That goes right in keeping withwhat you were saying a moment
ago, Melanie, is that you know,your grief brain is uh is sort
of reminiscent of when we talkedabout COVID brain, uh the COVID
brain fog.
It's much like that with thegrief brain.
And so to sh, you know, to sitand read a long passage of
(43:13):
scripture or multiple chaptersin a book might just seem
totally overwhelming.
And so instead of trying to readsomething, you just put it aside
and don't read anything.
But yeah, small bites at a time.
That's that's what I'm I'mhearing.
Just introduce yourself a littlebit at a time.
SPEAKER_02 (43:36):
And and specifically when I began writing the blog, I
purposed if if anybody ever goesthere, you'll find a few longer
ones, but typically they're 500to 750 words and and broken up
into short, choppy bits becauseI knew that I was not I was not
up for some, you know,multi-page anything at when
(44:01):
passed.
And then the other thing hereget connected to other bereaved
parents if you can.
That's huge.
That is really huge.
Because you need a soundingboard where where you can go and
say, and there's lots of onlinegroups, and I'm sure you you
probably have some links whenyou do the pod with some of the
links in the pod notes.
(44:23):
But if you can have a placewhere you can go and say, I'm
feeling this way, I'm facingthis issue, I don't know what to
do.
The first anniversary of mychild's death is coming up.
You need somewhere where you cango and and get wisdom from
others who walked ahead of you.
(44:43):
And also who will just affirm,no, you're not crazy for feeling
this way.
You're not, you're not out ofbounds, you haven't transgressed
in some way, you know.
And so that's super, superhelpful.
And then if you have, you know,don't overlook your non-bereaved
friends.
I had two non-bereaved friendswho came once a month to my
(45:04):
house, brought lunch, sat withme all day.
We talked about all kinds ofstuff.
And they never corrected me,they never chastised me, they
just listened.
If I felt like crying, I couldcry.
If I didn't feel like crying, Ididn't, you know, I didn't feel
like I was dishonoring Dominicin their presence because they
(45:24):
they well understood how much Iloved him.
And that's another thing thatbereaved parents think that if
they're not activelydemonstrating some kind of
emotion that that they peoplewill think that they didn't love
their child or don't or havegotten over it or whatever.
But that was very helpful to metoo.
SPEAKER_01 (45:42):
Those those are really good words, Melanie.
And those, you know, if forthose who are listening, maybe
maybe you could just zero in onone of those things that Melanie
just shared.
And if you if you don't feellike you can remember that
because you've got grief brain,then there are there will be a
(46:03):
transcript of this episodeprovided in the uh summary
section.
So take a look at that if youwould like.
Also, you can visit Melanie'sblog site on her website.
You can visit her blog, andthere are what, there's 10 years
worth of blog messages on therefor people to plug into, and I'm
(46:29):
sure would would be helpful andencouraging and just help you in
in rediscovering meaning andpurpose in your life again.
So check that out.
But Melly, I also want you totalk a little bit more about
your ministry and what it isthat you offer through that
ministry and how people can getin touch with you.
SPEAKER_02 (46:49):
My well, about a year ago, it's been just just a
little over a year.
I've been in the griefcommunity, as Greg mentioned,
for over, well, it'll be 10years will be the first blog
post.
September 16th will be 10 yearsof writing the blog.
So I've been in the griefcommunity for 10 years, but uh I
decided that the Lord wasleading me to offer some
(47:13):
additional resources to both thegrief community, but also those
outside the grief community whominister to those inside the
grief community.
So, like ministers, pastors,churches, social workers, other
people.
And so I founded Heartache andHope, which is a 501c3
nonprofit.
It's very low-key.
(47:34):
This is not a source of incomefor myself.
It's every every bit of theministry funds are used to fund
ministry opportunities for otherpeople.
So I do in-person monthlygatherings in my local
community.
I think I've been really prayingabout it.
I'm probably going to switch tovirtual shortly so people can
look for that on my Facebookpage, which everything's posted
(47:57):
as public setting.
And I also have a publicFacebook page called Heartache
and Hope.
And I post the blog andencouraging quotes and other
things there, resources that Ifind out about.
I post there for other parentsto find and access.
I do mom retreats.
(48:17):
One of the things that the Lordreally laid on my heart was
basically what you're talkingabout, Greg, that, you know,
we're we're comforted withcomfort so that we can comfort
others.
We've most brief parents feelthis expansion in their hearts,
this desire once they get overthat initial breath-robbing few
(48:40):
months or years of our journeywhere we want to reach out to
others.
Because my greatest desire isthat no one living in darkness
thinks that darkness is allthere is.
I don't want anyone who is whois in the midst of child loss to
think that they are literallynever going to be able to do
(49:04):
this, that they're never goingto be able to carry this, that
they're never going to be ableto see any good in the world or
find hope again, because you canand you will.
SPEAKER_01 (49:15):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (49:15):
And that's really the heart of who of my ministry,
in the heart of who I am.
So the mom's retreats are these,these intimate four-day retreats
at a property that my familyowns.
They're very small.
The maximum number of peoplethat we can accommodate is six
plus me, so seven of us.
And I can just tell you, I haveI've finished the fourth one in
(49:37):
August, and I will be having thefifth one in October.
And I have seen the Lord move inso such amazing ways.
They're offered free of chargeto the people who come, and
that's through the donationsthat we're the generous
donations that people have madeto the ministry.
I also do a Blue Christmas eventfor people in my community.
(50:01):
And what I hope to do is to Ispeak to groups and do podcasts
and other things.
I've been at conferences.
Our Hearts are Home does aconference, and they do two
annual conferences a year.
And what I hope to begin doingis to develop the four-day
retreat into a one-day retreat.
(50:22):
I'm going to offer a pilot of itin October to a group in Texas
because I know some, there's alot of local groups that meet,
and it might be helpful for themto have, you know, maybe a
five-hour event where they gotget the meat of the retreat.
It won't be the same experience,but it'll it'll give them about
most of the information that Igive out.
But my heart is really forbereaved parents to understand
(50:48):
that they can stay connected orreconnect to God, that they can
that they can take theirfeelings to the Lord and lament,
and that He will help them alignthose feelings with truth.
And that when we feed ourselvestruth, that then we gain
perspective, which willultimately lead to purpose,
(51:10):
because the way we find purposepost-child loss, in in my
opinion, and based on scripture,is I've got to orient my, I've
got to position my story withinthe eternal story the Lord is
writing.
So I'm part of this greaternarrative.
And when I can recognize that,then I can say to the Lord,
(51:31):
okay, so what do you want me todo with this?
What and it and for some people,it's doing a podcast or doing a
ministry or doing retreats.
But for some people, it is assimple but equally important as
walking beside that person thatyou hear about that also lost a
child or frankly has had anyother profound loss.
(51:53):
You can come in with a mercy andsay, Hey, I'm here.
You, you know, you're not gonnabe one of those people that
says, Hey, tell me if there'sanything I can do.
You're gonna actually go withthe paper plates.
SPEAKER_00 (52:05):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (52:06):
You're gonna go and you're gonna, you're gonna drive
them, you're gonna drive them tothe doctor's appointment because
I didn't drive for like sixweeks after Dominic died because
I I didn't trust myself to drivebecause I couldn't focus, I
couldn't pay attention.
And and so, and then onceyou've, you know, once you
you're connecting with God,you're consulting his truth, and
(52:29):
you can begin to recognize thatyour story is part of a bigger
story.
Well, then, you know, I wantpeople to be equipped to
persevere because that's whatGod has called us to do.
You know, people a lot of timesthink of victory as coming in
first across the finish line.
But if you look at scripture,that's that has nothing to do
(52:50):
with victory in the kingdom ofGod.
SPEAKER_00 (52:53):
So true.
SPEAKER_02 (53:00):
And I uh Ephesians 2 10 is one of my favorite verses,
you know, for we're God'sworkmanship created in Christ
Jesus to do the good works whichhe prepared beforehand for us to
do that we may walk therein.
So there's a whole bunch tothat.
God is the one making me forwhat purpose?
To do the good works, not mygood works, the ones he's
(53:21):
already set up.
All I gotta do is just keepwalking.
And all I have to do is be theme God created me to be, even
the me post-loss, the me that'schiseled by heartache to do
what?
To do the good works that Godcreated for me to do.
And that means he's gonna putthem right in my path.
I don't have to go somewherespecial, I don't have to get on
(53:44):
a plane and travel to anothercountry.
It's the people and the and thejust that are there already, you
know, or the people that I meet.
And he does, he has all that,and then that is gonna be
ultimately something that ineternity, I believe with my
whole heart that in eternity Godis going to reveal to us the
(54:07):
ways in which our threads havebeen woven into this big
tapestry.
SPEAKER_01 (54:13):
That is so well said.
And, you know, Melanie, the workthat you're doing is so
important.
All the different aspects ofwhat your ministry looks like.
So for somebody who's listeningtoday thinking, you know, maybe
I might want to possibly go toone of those retreats, but I'm
(54:33):
not really sure.
How could they get in touch withyou and just learn more about
it?
And so they can make a, youknow, make a decision at some
point.
SPEAKER_02 (54:43):
Well, there's a couple of ways.
And I and I'll be honest witheverybody because you and I had
talked that this podcast may notcome out for a little while.
So I hope by then I've updatedthe website, but if so that it
reflects this.
Because there's such limitedspace on the retreats, what I
did for the past retreats is Ijust put it out there on the on
(55:04):
the website, which isheartacheandhope.org, and you
can go under events.
I may change that slightlybecause there was a lot of
confusion over whether, eventhough the the website is set up
to automatically drop peopleback to the wait list, I think
there was a lot of confusionabout that.
But you can either message me onFacebook, which anybody can find
(55:28):
me on Facebook, Melanie D.
Simone.
You can go to the website,heartacheandhope.org, and send
an email.
There's a a place to contactthrough there.
And I will be opening upprobably by December or of 2025
or January of 2026.
(55:49):
I'll be opening up the dates for2026.
And that's how you would do it.
SPEAKER_01 (55:54):
For those retreats.
SPEAKER_02 (55:55):
Correct.
For the retreats, yes.
And if anybody wants to contactme for any other reason, they
can do it that way too.
They can go through the throughtheir the website.
There's a contact button there,and then you can get me on
Messenger through Facebookbecause I check all of those.
SPEAKER_01 (56:13):
Yeah, perfect.
And I will include links to allof all of those that Melanie
just mentioned in her episodesummary.
So just be on the lookout forthat.
And I just want to say thanksagain, Melanie, for your
transparency, for your honesty,and giving us a glimpse into
(56:39):
your grief journey, which isvery personal.
But I think every time we dothis, not only does it benefit
us, but it also benefits thepeople that are listening who
may be in a very different placeon their grief journey.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for carving out timeand your schedule to come and be
(57:01):
our guest today.
SPEAKER_02 (57:03):
Thank you for having me.
I really, really appreciate it.
And I hope that the Lordcontinues to bless the work
you're doing through thepodcast.
SPEAKER_01 (57:11):
Thank you so much, Melanie.
Well, hello and welcome back.
On today's episode, I'll betalking with Melanie De Simone,
founder of the Heartache andHope Ministry, and author of a
very popular blog entitled TheLife I Didn't Choose.
Recently, Melanie has startedhosting small intimate retreats
(01:10):
for other grieving moms.
She has also been a guest onseveral podcasts, as well as
being a gifted speaker.
That's her life today.
But in the spring of 2014, itlooked very different.
In April of that year, Melanie'sprecious 23-year-old son Dominic
was killed in a motorcycleaccident.
(01:32):
I hope you'll listen as sheshares about her grief journey
and how God's grace andfaithfulness carried her through
that trauma that trauma and painto a life today filled with
meaning and purpose.
And now here is my conversationwith Melanie.
Welcome, Melanie.
(01:53):
It is so good to have you on ourpodcast today.
Thanks for being here.
SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate the opportunity.
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
Oh, absolutely.
It is my honor to have you herewith us today.
Before we dive into your story,Melanie, why don't you just take
a couple of minutes and tell ourlisteners a little bit more
about you?
Anything you want to share,family-related, work-related,
ministry-related, just in thatcouple of minutes, and then
we'll get into the uh we'll do adeeper dive after that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
So my name is Melanie D.
Simone, and my husband and Ihave been married for over 40
years.
We live on a small homestead inrural Alabama.
We have four children, threethat walk the earth with us and
one that's in heaven.
I have been a shepherd for over25 years, both literal and
(02:47):
figurative.
I would say my figurativeshepherding began many years
before that, both with my ownchildren and through lay
ministry in the differentchurches that we belong to.
One of my children, my oldestson is a veterinarian.
My daughter, who is the oldestchild, she's a nurse.
And our youngest son is alsoworking in my oldest son's vet
(03:10):
clinic.
Dominic, the son that's inheaven, is the middle son.
And my husband's an architectand a structural engineer.
He re-retired in 2020, got oneof those sweet uh post-COVID
deals.
And so our days are mostlyfilled with taking care of our
place, our home, and a lot ofoutdoor activities.
(03:32):
I have horses and donkeys still.
Uh, lost my last goat lastwinter time.
I have cats.
Yes, I am a cat lady.
And um I do a lot of writing andphone counseling and in-person,
all lay counseling.
I'm not a licensed professionalcounselor, counseling over the
(03:53):
phone and in with people.
And that's really how my daysare spent most of the day.
You know, I would say I spendabout four hours every day
either writing, texting,messaging, and or talking to
someone on the phone.
SPEAKER_01 (04:06):
Yeah, that's a busy life.
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
It is.
We have two grandchildren too.
I should I can't leave mygrandkids out.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Ah, how old are they?
SPEAKER_02 (04:15):
They're six and three.
And they're both boys, andthey're growing up in the
playing in the dirt and havingfun.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
Like my That is great.
That's great.
Too many kids never have thatopportunity.
Kind of grew up the same waybecause my grandparents lived on
a farm in North Carolina.
So I always had theopportunities to hunt and fish
and just play in the dirt and dojust do stuff on the farm that
you can't do in town.
SPEAKER_02 (04:44):
No, you can't do it in the suburbs.
It's uh, you know, I have aclothesline, you know, all the
things, all the things that HOAsallow.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Exactly.
Yeah, you have a lot morefreedom in the country.
unknown (04:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:57):
And it was interesting too.
Your your husband retired in2020, and I I did too, three
weeks before COVID lockdown.
So it was an it was aninteresting time to step away
and be sequestered away for awhile.
SPEAKER_02 (05:12):
It was.
It really was.
Our family weathered that.
My father, my mother had died in2019, and so my father was in
his 80s, and we were verycareful, you know, to try not to
spread, especially in thoseearly days when nobody knew
really specifically how it wasbeing spread, or what, you know,
or how to treat it well.
(05:33):
So anyway, we we spent those wespent those months doing a lot
of fun family things.
We kind of made they werereferring to them as pods back
then, you know, like the fewpeople that you would get
together with, you know.
Right.
And we did we did a lot ofin-person activities, but we did
it with just the few of us.
SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
We kind of did the same thing.
We had a uh we had a small lifegroup that you know we did life
with.
And so we've we figured out away after the first few weeks to
ke to continue doing thatbecause you know it's it brings
a lot of richness to life uhwhen you're able to live you
(06:11):
know in the context of communitylike that.
SPEAKER_02 (06:14):
Aaron Powell We're designed for community.
I mean, that's one of the thingswhich we'll we'll talk about
later as we talk further, butthat's one of the greatest
blessings in this journey is tofind a place where you feel like
you have safe community.
SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
You are absolutely right about that.
And having both of us havinglived through the loss of a
child, probably understand thevalue of community better than
most, because that's when youreally discover the value.
SPEAKER_02 (06:46):
I think that's absolutely true.
SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
Well, Melanie, why don't we spend a few minutes
having you just tell ourlisteners about your son
Dominic?
Uh, because everything, youknow, you and I had a
conversation a couple of weeksago.
We talked about just uhdifferent things, and we of
course talked about Dominic.
And he sounds like an incredibleyoung man.
(07:11):
Sounds like somebody that mostof our listeners would probably
enjoy meeting.
So just tell us a little aboutand then and tell us a little
about the impact that you knowthat he made on who you are
today.
SPEAKER_02 (07:22):
Absolutely.
So I'm gonna start by explainingthat when I talk about Dominic's
characteristics, I talk aboutthem in the present tense
because I believe with all myheart that he continues to live
and be who he was created to be,even in heaven.
SPEAKER_01 (07:38):
So I love that.
I love that, and I appreciatethat.
SPEAKER_02 (07:43):
You know, so so Dominic, Dominic is a vibrant
person.
He has a cutting sense of humor.
That was one of his thing, oneof his attributes that sometimes
got him in trouble with friendswhen they didn't realize he was
joking.
Uh he died in a single vehiclemotorcycle accident, April 12th,
2014.
So it's been almost 11 and ahalf years in October, it'll be
(08:05):
11 and a half years.
He was a law student at theUniversity of Alabama, almost
completed his second year of lawschool, and through generous and
kind acts of his dear friendsand the law school, I actually
received his diplomaposthumously.
He was also honored at thegraduation when they graduated.
Well very special.
(08:27):
But he was he was a fun person,a funny person, a wise beyond
his years kind of person.
He was a good friend to people.
The day that he was killed at 1a.m.
on Saturday morning.
So Friday, the day before he wasactually killed, even though it
(08:48):
was in the middle of the night,he had replaced an alternator on
a friend's car because, contraryto what a lot of people think,
law students are really poor.
And so he basically he was agood mechanic and he would say,
you know, you get the part, I'llput it in.
So that's what he had done thatday before.
He shared whatever he had.
That's a characteristic whichI'm proud to say is common in
(09:11):
all of my children.
If they have it and you need it,they give it.
He was really smart, he was verypersistent, and he was athletic,
and we miss him very much.
You know, he he we used toalways say the D S bones come as
a committee because wehomeschooled.
And so our lives were veryintertwined with one another,
(09:34):
and our church slash ministrylife was very intertwined with
our home life.
There was not a lot ofsegmentation in our lives.
We just did a lot of thingstogether.
He was also a talented musician.
He was a drummer primarily, buthe could play pretty much any
instrument that he ever touchedand served in worship bands.
And we just really miss himbecause one of the things that I
(09:58):
think people don't understandabout child loss is that the
loss of the single individual isa loss of multiple
relationships.
SPEAKER_01 (10:09):
And the would you would you repeat that, Melanie?
Because I want to make sure ourlisteners heard that.
SPEAKER_02 (10:15):
Yes.
So the loss of the singleindividual is a loss of multiple
relationships.
So he was the he was a middlechild in every way.
He was the third born in ourfamily.
Our daughter's at the top.
We have three sons, but he wasso he was a middle child
technically, but he was also themiddle son.
He was the middle brother.
(10:36):
So that made him like a doublemiddle, uh, you know, and and
when I lost him, I lost my son.
When his siblings lost him, theylost their brother.
When my husband lost him, helost his son.
How I related to Dominic isalways going to be different
than how each other each of theother people in my family
(10:59):
related to him.
Because not only do we lose thatperson, we lose who we are
reflect reflected back to usfrom that person, if that makes
sense.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
So there's it does.
That's that's such a very that'ssuch a wise perspective,
Melanie.
Thank you for sharing that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
And I think that sometimes when people say I lost
myself or I lost a piece ofpiece of myself, I think that's
really what they're saying.
So Dominic was a great debater.
He was in law school.
He was also a political sciencemajor.
Well, I am a political scienceand a psychology major.
So he and I had a uniqueconnection in that way that he
(11:42):
didn't have with anybody else inthe family.
You know, we would talk aboutcertain things that other people
didn't talk about, and we couldtalk about it from different
perspectives.
His debate skills sometimesfrustrated all of us because he
could also be argumentative.
But the point is that whatever,whatever way, just like the
Bible says iron, yeah ironsharpens aren't, you know, man
(12:04):
sharpens man as iron sharpensiron, right?
I lost that sharpening action.
So I I I no longer have accessto that.
And that makes a hugedifference.
I mean, you know, we I knowwe'll get into the pain and the
loss and the sorrow and all thatstuff, but the actual part of
(12:24):
who I was that he sent back tome is lost to me forever until
now.
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
I understand that uh at a very personal level because
not only, you know, as a dad,you know, when we lost Ryan, I
lost my son, but I also lost whoI consider to be my best friend
at the time.
And so it it it does representmore than one form of loss.
SPEAKER_00 (12:55):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
As you said very well.
So we know from personalexperience that losing a child
does change us.
And it changes us sometimes veryprofoundly.
So for you, Melanie, I'd justlike for us to talk a few a few
minutes about what that lookedlike for you.
(13:18):
Because a lot of times you'llhear parents who have lost a
child talk about their beforeand after life.
So let's just talk a little bitabout that.
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
But you know, you go through a suburb and you see
that one overgrown yard andyou're like, well, don't those
people ever cut their grass?
And now my first the first thingI think of is what happened.
Did somebody die?
Is somebody in the hospital?
You know, what happened to themthat keeps them from doing what
I know they've been doing allalong, you know, if it's
(14:12):
someplace you pass frequently.
So that's a change that I knowabout myself.
Dominic was a very bold person.
And I would say that before hedied, I was much less likely to
have good boundaries, much lesslikely to speak out sometimes
about what I need from anotherperson.
(14:33):
And I don't mean that in justlike a selfish way.
I just mean in a in a healthyway.
You know, I'm sure, you know, Icould be a doormat.
And so that's one thing, but Icouldn't be because I couldn't
be a doormat and survive hisdeath.
So that was really where therubber meets the road, you know.
So I call pe I call these peoplelife-sucking forces.
(14:55):
And I'm sorry if that offendsanybody, but yeah, but we all
have them.
And before I would just alwayspick up the phone or always do
or always go, okay, sure, I'lldo that for you.
And I learned that I couldn't dothat anymore because I literally
did not have it.
It was, it was literally liketrying to ask a car to run on
empty, no gas, no fuel.
You just but you still got togo.
(15:16):
So I learned about that changedme.
Another thing that changed wasit changed the direction of my
own personal ministry beforewe'd been doing a lot of other
different kinds of things inchurches and stuff.
And I really felt like that theLord was calling me to comfort
others with the comfort I hadreceived, and that this was a
(15:36):
finer, more refined, pointedministry.
It still includes things likeBible studies and other things,
but it's predominantly aboutreaching out to bereaved
parents.
And I also found that I could bea really good advocate because,
you know, again, Dominic was inlaw school.
And I think sometimes I'mchanneling him in that respect
(16:00):
that I will stand up for anybodyanywhere to have the right to
grieve as they need to, as longas they're not hurting someone
else or hurt harming themselves.
I will absolutely stand betweenthem, you know, and anybody or
anything to say, hey, you theyget to do this.
This is how it is.
You you don't get to decide forthem how they're gonna go
(16:20):
through this this experience.
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
I think it drew our family closer in certain ways.
It also all of my children wereadults when Dominic died.
The youngest was 22.
And uh and I think it changedmaybe how I relate to my adult
children because even though welike I said, we homeschooled and
(16:45):
we had shared a lot of things, Ihad losses in my life as an
adult while they were growing upthat they didn't share.
But now we shared this loss asadults, and I could see how it
was shaping them, and I had tomake space for them to grieve as
was appropriate and safe andhelpful and healthy for them,
(17:09):
even if it cost me something tomake space for them, if that
makes sense.
SPEAKER_01 (17:16):
It does.
And I would just just ask, youyou said that it changed the way
in some respects that how yourelated to your other children.
That that does happen to anyfamily who has lost a child if
there are more children in thefamily that are living.
(17:37):
So what uh people may bewondering, so how did you handle
that, Melanie?
Because, you know, we know thatsiblings who have lost another
brother or sister are known asthe forgotten mourners.
SPEAKER_02 (17:52):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (17:53):
And there are a lot of reasons why that exists, but
it is a it is the reality.
I mean, we watched what ourdaughter went through, and she
was 10 years older than Ryan.
SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
So how did that look for you and how how do you
relate to your living childrennow as a result of that?
SPEAKER_02 (18:16):
Well, I think there's there's about four or
five key points that I usuallyshare with parents who do have
earthbound children.
Is number one is I am I told Ihad two of my kids were here
when the deputy knocked on thedoor when Dominic died.
And I told them immediately, Isaid, number one, we're not
(18:38):
making a saint out of Dominic.
Because sibling rivalry does notdie because a child dies.
And we would like for it to, butit doesn't.
And and it's too easy to makethat unreachable child into
something he or she is not andnever was, because they are no
(18:58):
longer present to irritateanyone or you know, or say the
wrong thing or do the wrongthing, you know.
And and and as time passes, wetend to paint it with a rosy
glow.
And so so that was the firstthing.
That's the first thing is torecognize that your children
that are still here with you arestill looking to you to provide
(19:20):
guidance and support and love,even though you may feel like
you don't have it to give to anyof those things to give.
Now, does that mean you're notgonna fail?
Absolutely not, because you'regoing to, because that's the
nature of parenthood.
You failed some in the past,you're gonna fail some in the
future, is how it happens, youknow.
(19:41):
So I would say number one, youknow, be careful not to make
your child, the the missingchild or children, some kind of
saints that the other childrenfeel like they have to live up
to.
SPEAKER_01 (19:51):
Happens very easily.
SPEAKER_02 (19:53):
It does.
And so a very practical way ofdoing that in our particular
house, and I'm not I'm notsaying it's necessary or that
it's the best practice for otherpeople, but we do have pictures
of Dominic, but except in acouple of a couple of kind of
unobtrusive places, his picturesare always couched within like
(20:13):
the wall of all the familypictures.
Sure.
They're not, I don't have aseparate section just for him.
And then I I always tell parentsthat my fear cannot circumscribe
my other children's lives.
So are we scared?
Do I, you know, I mean, it waslike three years.
Our doorbell doesn't ring muchbecause we do live in a rural
(20:34):
area, but it was like threeyears before I could hear the
doorbell and not literally jumpout of my skin because the
deputy did ring the doorbell.
And so yeah, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01 (20:44):
And I was I was just gonna throw this in for somebody
else who who is in an earlyseason of grief.
And they had that knock on thedoor, they had that phone call,
and now when that happens, it'syou know the response is almost
the same, and that goes on for awhile.
(21:05):
And that that's because the kindof trauma that you went through
yields symptoms that youtypically find with PTSD.
And sometimes parents end upwith PTSD for a while.
SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
100%.
I would I would absolutelyagree.
And and one of the things thatgosh, we can go down so many
different roads.
One of the things that you haveto learn, and this is this does
this does refer back to the fearnot circumscribing your
children.
One, you can put in place somevery practical things like our
(21:38):
family.
If if someone in our family istraveling, you know, they text,
landed, got, you know, got whereI was going.
They give you, you can we cancontact one another.
I do not have life 360 on all mygrown children.
That I I respect their privacy.
But that may be very, veryappropriate for younger children
with families that that haveyounger children.
That's 100% appropriate.
(21:59):
But, and I tell my kids upfront, I say, you know, I'm not
trying to run your life, but Ineed to know that you're safe
when you arrive somewhere orwhatever, or at least have a
contact for somebody who's goingto be with you, something like
that.
So there's some practical thingsyou can do.
And then there's other thingsthat you can do for your own,
for your own body when you'retalking about bodily responses.
You know, anxiety and fear,especially if they're a result
(22:23):
of some kind of trauma, it maynot quite rise to the level of
what would be diagnosed as PTSD,but it's very similar.
And we have we have to learn tounderstand that because our body
reacts, it doesn't mean that thedanger is truly close to us,
because that's like our littlereptile brain.
You know, it goes, oh no,something's gonna come after us,
(22:46):
but or something bad's gonnahappen.
And you have to look around andsay, okay, really truly, is
there danger here?
So one of the things I had to dowas come to the grips to the
fact that it's no more likely,and and I know that I know
several families who haveexperienced child loss multiple
times, and it does happen, butit is no more likely to happen
(23:08):
today than it was the day beforeDominic died.
It's just the way it is.
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
And it's hard to think of it that way for a long
time.
SPEAKER_02 (23:19):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
You know, because that just seems, I mean, that's
that's uh it it just leaves thatindelible impression in your
brain.
And so you react for a long timeinstead of thinking through how
you're gonna react.
And that applies to our ourchild our living children as
well, as you said.
(23:41):
And I I've certainly experiencedthat and just thinking in a more
you know, dad in our roles asdads, we tend to be the
protector and defender of ourfamilies.
And man, I'll tell you, it itreally makes my wife and I both
more defensive and protective ofour daughter.
(24:02):
And like you said, when she goessomewhere out of town
particularly, we do like to askher to send us a text, let us
know you're okay.
You know, it's not like we dwellon it.
And I know that I hear I hearyou saying that, but sometimes I
think it's probably a littledifficult for our living
(24:23):
children to understand thatlevel of uh of intensity about
their safety.
SPEAKER_02 (24:30):
But I think that goes, that goes as we're talking
about siblings, I think thatgoes to a general principle of
how to deal with grief withinour families and also within our
friend, or especially our closefriendships, is transparency,
authenticity, and honesty.
So we need to, with our with ourchildren, we need to say, hey, I
(24:52):
realize your peers may not beasked to to be under this kind
of scrutiny or to be or to besending these texts or making
these phone calls, but it'sreally important to me and I
would really appreciate it.
And it's a small thing, and I'mnot gonna, I'm not gonna
micromanage you.
(25:13):
I just want to know your yourlocation or whatever, you know,
because like I'm sure with yourown daughter, you don't ask her
then to give you an itinerary ofyou know where she's going for
dinner and all the other stuff.
It's just like, okay, you know,I my plane arrived up safe, and
that and then we do the samething.
And then the two other things Iwould say about your children
(25:34):
and and I is there's got to bespace that is that is safe for
them to do their own grief work.
So it it's not okay for us todemand because I hear this
sometimes from other bereavedparents, they want their living
(25:56):
children to participate in aparticular thing, you know,
maybe some kind of memorialthing or doing something.
And if that doesn't feel good tothem, if that doesn't feel right
to them, if that doesn't feelsafe to them, you've got to
respect that because they're ofcourse too, you know.
And then the final thing is letthem tell their own story.
(26:17):
So now if you've got if you'vegot school age children that are
very young, it would be entirelynot only appropriate, but uh but
correct to let their teachersknow, you know, especially if
something happened over thesummer or if they're going to a
new school or they're gettingnew teachers, you know.
I just want you to know thatSusie lost her brother last
(26:38):
year, and there may be these aredates like maybe birthdays or
you know, around the holidays oranniversaries of death that I'd
like you to be aware of.
And that's appropriate.
But if you've got children thatare, you know, in their teens
and going forward, it's up tothem if they identify as
(26:58):
siblings lost survivors.
And it's not right for us toalways identify them on social
media or other things withouttheir permission.
You know, let them tell theirown story.
SPEAKER_01 (27:11):
Totally agree.
Totally agree.
Uh and uh as referring back towhat you said a few moments ago,
Melanie, when you talked aboutbeing honest and open and
transparent, I think uhparticularly for our maybe
younger children or youngerteenagers who have lost a
(27:33):
sibling, they need to, we needto help them understand that
we're not the same people thatwe were before.
If they notice changes in us forpositive or negative, that it
it's a part of what happens inthe grieving process.
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:55):
And yes, we're the same people, but in some ways,
no, we're not the same people.
Because I think if theyunderstand it, yeah, then then
they can handle it and respond alot better.
SPEAKER_02 (28:07):
And also we're not the same family we were.
Again, back to the wholerelationship thing.
So everything shifted.
And so so you've got they theyno longer have the same family
that they had the day before.
It's a whole different family.
Everybody's changing and parentsare changing.
And and even young children canunderstand when we say to them,
(28:31):
you know, mommy's sad.
I know you want me to go to thisthing, whatever it is.
I don't think I can do that.
Would it be okay if AuntSo-and-so goes with you in
instead?
Would that be okay with you, youknow?
And and you can you can makearrangements, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (28:47):
Absolutely, of course.
But yeah, it does, it doesaffect the dynamics of families,
even extended families.
SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (28:56):
Oh, definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
Yeah.
It you you learn as you go howfar reaching that loss actually
is, because it touches far morelives than we think about.
And and that's it's just alearning process.
And you know, we have to learnto give grace to each other and
and be understanding becauseeverybody's journey is
(29:20):
different.
SPEAKER_02 (29:21):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (29:21):
Do you do you think that having lost Dominic has
made you a better person in inany way?
SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
I think there's things I've learned in the
process of grieving him.
And I'm always very careful tolet parents know that I do not
believe that God visits childloss on us to teach us anything.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
I agree.
SPEAKER_02 (29:46):
You know, and and some people can fall into that
mindset, like we were talkingabout, are what we think and how
we react instead of responding.
And so a huge part of grief workis working through these
different feelings.
So, but yes, I do think I Iguess the only the best way I
could say is that I haveexpanded both in my spiritual
(30:10):
life and in my emotional lifeand in my personal life.
I've I've expanded in ways thatI don't think I would have if I
had not lost Dominic, because Iwouldn't have been forced to,
because we're not, yeah, we westay in our comfort zones as
long as we can, and that'snormative human behavior.
SPEAKER_01 (30:31):
Totally true.
SPEAKER_02 (30:33):
So I I feel like I feel like I'm a I feel like I'm
a more welcoming person.
We always had kind of an opendoor policy in our home, but I
think on a very personal levelthat I will when I I see people,
just like I said about the grassthing.
I I tend to extend more grace.
(30:53):
And I think that that's whoJesus has called us to be, you
know?
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
Yeah, I agree.
And and sometimes we don't learnand expand in that direction, as
you were just just saying,unless we go through something
that is very that challenges usto the very core of who we are.
But I agree with you.
I think it does give us agreater capacity to love, to be
(31:21):
compassionate and kind and andmore understanding and less apt
to be judgmental.
It doesn't, I'm not saying itgoes away.
We don't become perfect people,don't mean that at all.
But I think it does, I think Godcan use that to round off the
rough edges of who we are, andand and we can become a better
(31:45):
version of who we were before.
SPEAKER_02 (31:47):
Well, I think about the story in the New Testament
where Peter has the dream aboutall the different food coming
down from heaven because he'sbeen ugly and you know he he he
went back with the Judaizers,the early Christians that were
Judaizers, and so God gives himthis dream.
Well, you you think you can'teat pork.
Let me show you what all you caneat, you know.
And to me, that's that's kind ofhow I feel, you know, that
(32:12):
through meeting so manydifferent parents with so many
different backgrounds, yes, weshare child loss, but we don't
we don't share a lot of otherthings, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (32:23):
Um and it's made me stop and think and be just be so
much more able and willing tomeet people where they were,
where they are, rather not wherethey were.
And I think about the book ofJohn, you know, it's encounter
after encounter and afterencounter between Jesus and
(32:44):
individuals.
And each time he meets thatperson exactly at their point of
need, he welcomes them, he lovesthem, he extends grace and
mercy, and he he uses where theyare to help them see who he is.
SPEAKER_01 (33:04):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (33:05):
And and he does, but he takes each one gently to that
place, you know, and that's Ithink I'm more like that now
than I used to be.
SPEAKER_01 (33:13):
Yeah, I have uh in conversations I've had with
other grieving parents, I wouldsay that most share that same
that same perspective, Melanie.
And I know it's God has usedthat in our lives in ways that
we never would have even thoughtto ask about, you know.
It's like you said a few minutesago, sometimes we we love our
(33:35):
our comfort zone.
We love that that littlepredictable zone of life that we
are involved in, and we wouldn'tthink about asking God to send
something that he could use tomake us better.
So in his wisdom, coupled withhis grace and his kindness, he
(33:56):
does allow us to experiencethings that we would have never
in a million years thought wouldhappen.
But he can also use that forgood, not only in our lives, but
in the lives of other people,much like what you're doing
today by sharing your story andbeing transparent about what it
(34:17):
did to your life and yourfamily's lives.
SPEAKER_02 (34:20):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (34:21):
Yeah.
You know, Melanie, I think a lotof people who maybe people are
listening today, I should say,who are in a much earlier season
of grief than we are.
It's been 10 years for us, 11years, 11 and a half years for
you guys.
When you think back to thoseearly weeks and months, are
(34:42):
there things that that you couldshare with with our listeners
that helped you?
Granted, it's not cookie cutter,and what helped you might not
necessarily help somebody else,but it might.
And sometimes I think peoplewonder, you know, how am I ever
going to feel any better?
(35:03):
Is this ever going to stophurting so much?
And sometimes there are thingsthat we can do, but our brains
are so muddled in those early,in that early season that we
might not have thought about it.
But if somebody shares whathelped them, who knows, maybe it
(35:25):
could help.
SPEAKER_02 (35:27):
I'm a huge believer in the uh uh idea and the truth
that's both scriptural and evenif you aren't a believer, it's
it's borne out by cognitivecognitive behavior therapy, is
that we can choose certainthings even even when we feel
(35:50):
like we can't.
And sometimes they're teeny,tiny, tiny little things.
So I would say in the beginningthat what helped me in terms of
personal practice, you know, ofcourse, having friends and
family and people that camealongside, that was huge.
But if you're talking about whatdid I do in a day that maybe
(36:12):
helped me, one is I journaled.
And there's lots of good griefjournals out there that if you,
if you're not the kind ofperson, I had journaled for
years.
So it was very natural for me tocontinue to just keep writing.
But if you're the kind of personthat's never journaled, you can
find prompts online or you canbuy one of the one of the
(36:33):
scripture-based grief journalingbooks that are out there.
And so writing down what thatdoes, and this this goes to
taking our thoughts captive,when when you just are thinking
about stuff, we've all had thisexperience that when we are
thinking, it's kind of like likea foggy cloud in our brains.
(36:54):
But when we're forced to tellsomeone else about it, which is
also like journaling, you couldalso just tell somebody about
it.
When you're forced to put intowords what's floating around in
your head, you are suddenly muchmore aware of exactly what
you're feeling, exactly whatyou're thinking.
And then you can evaluate it.
Is this aligned with truth?
(37:16):
So one of the things that Ialways tell parents is that
feelings are real, but feelingscan lie.
SPEAKER_01 (37:22):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (37:23):
I can feel terrible, I can feel this is never gonna
end, I can feel that God doesn'tsee me, I can feel that no one
loves me, and that this is thatI'm never gonna survive this.
But that is, those are alllegitimate.
But that's not that's not true.
You know, you can survive, youknow, you it will, it doesn't,
(37:46):
it it actually will end inheaven.
On earth, it's not gonna end.
So that's another thing I willtell parents.
You get stronger and better ableto carry the load.
And if you do the work thatgrief requires, you can rewire
your body, you can rewire yourbrain to some extent, even in
the face of great trauma.
And if you need professionalhelp to do that, please, please,
(38:06):
please seek that help, whetherit's medication or counseling or
whatever.
But a lot of us can do thisthrough personal practices.
So one was journaling, the otherone was physical activity.
So one of the things we'recreated mind, body, spirit, and
soul.
So our bodies respond tosunlight.
Our bodies respond to physicalmovement.
(38:28):
So if I would find myself in agrief spiral, I might journal
for a while.
And then when I felt like thatwas not being fruitful anymore,
if I'm sitting, I stand up.
If I'm standing up, I walk.
If I'm in a certain room, I goto another room.
That was very helpful.
Not ruminating as best as Icould, you know, at the very,
(38:49):
very early days, a lot of usjust we just want to hold the
picture, or for me, it was myson's pillows from his bed.
He had an apartment.
We want to just hold thosethings, and that's appropriate
and good and helpful.
But if you find that two, three,six, eight weeks down the road
that you can't move your chairor out of your bed, let someone
(39:13):
help guide you to a morefruitful way of not moving on.
Nobody, I don't want anybody tothink I'm saying telling them
moving on or get over, but youcan move forward because this is
the thing.
The sun's gonna rise, the sun'sgonna set, and the calendar's
gonna keep going.
If you have other children inyour life, their lives are gonna
(39:33):
continue to move.
And if you if you sit in thatone place and you don't make any
attempt, and some of us needpeople to help us make the
attempt.
I know some of us are soprofoundly broken, you may have,
you may enter grief already withsome kind of major depressive
(39:55):
disorder or anxiety disorder.
You need to get with yourhealthcare professional and
discuss that because medicationscan be adjusted, counseling can
be added.
So journaling, physicalmovement, having a plan for the
day.
I'm a big write things downperson.
So at the time I had a largeherd of goats and my I had brain
(40:16):
fog, grief brain, it wasterrible.
I couldn't remember things.
And so I would set out a littlethree by five card for myself.
I either did it first thing inthe morning or I did it the
night before and put it next tomy coffee pot.
And I would have threenon-negotiable things I had to
do that day.
Now, at the very beginning, theywere things like go feed the
(40:37):
goats, because that needed to bedone every day.
And it was not, I mean, it wassomething I should have been
able to do anyway, but it seemedinsurmountable, like an
insurmountable task initially.
But as of time went on, one ofthe things I did that first
summer was I sewed bookmarks.
Somebody had given me a bunch offabric scraps, and I set my
(40:58):
sewing machine up on my kitchentable, and I was like, I am not
going to bed until I make threenew bookmarks every day.
Now, people can laugh at that orwhatever, and it was a, it was
just, it was just busy work.
But it but as when I'm sewingand I'm trying to get that seam
straight, I can't also beactively anxious.
SPEAKER_01 (41:17):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (41:18):
You know, a another thing that I did was I read good
Christian books on grief.
One of the first ones I read wasuh Lament for a Son by Nicholas
Woltersdorf.
And I loved it because it was inshort bursts.
It was easy to read, and as weall know, our attention, most of
us at when we're grieving ourthe loss of a child, our
(41:40):
attention span is really short.
So I could do that.
I could do that.
Another one is A Grace Disguisedby Jerry Sitzer.
I had read uh Grief Observedpreviously by C.S.
Lewis, and I will caution peoplein reading that one.
He's a he's the kind of writerthat every word for another
(42:00):
writer would be worth aparagraph.
So, so if you if that ischallenging to you, just set it
down, come back to it later, nota problem.
I would also say if you're able,you know, read some scripture.
I know that for myself, I wasdown, I had just come through a
(42:20):
three-year period where I hadgone through the Bible literally
one chapter at a time because Ihad decided that I had I'd
studied scripture for so long,read it so many times, it was
kind of getting rote.
If it sounds terrible, but itwas.
And so I slowed myself down, youknow.
And God brought a lot of versesto mind when I was journaling.
(42:41):
And sometimes I would look themup, but I was not reading long
passages of scripture in theearly days.
SPEAKER_01 (42:48):
Right.
That goes right in keeping withwhat you were saying a moment
ago, Melanie, is that you know,your grief brain is uh is sort
of reminiscent of when we talkedabout COVID brain, uh the COVID
brain fog.
It's much like that with thegrief brain.
And so to sh, you know, to sitand read a long passage of
(43:13):
scripture or multiple chaptersin a book might just seem
totally overwhelming.
And so instead of trying to readsomething, you just put it aside
and don't read anything.
But yeah, small bites at a time.
That's that's what I'm I'mhearing.
Just introduce yourself a littlebit at a time.
SPEAKER_02 (43:36):
And and specifically when I began writing the blog, I
purposed if if anybody ever goesthere, you'll find a few longer
ones, but typically they're 500to 750 words and and broken up
into short, choppy bits becauseI knew that I was not I was not
up for some, you know,multi-page anything at when
(44:01):
passed.
And then the other thing hereget connected to other bereaved
parents if you can.
That's huge.
That is really huge.
Because you need a soundingboard where where you can go and
say, and there's lots of onlinegroups, and I'm sure you you
probably have some links whenyou do the pod with some of the
links in the pod notes.
(44:23):
But if you can have a placewhere you can go and say, I'm
feeling this way, I'm facingthis issue, I don't know what to
do.
The first anniversary of mychild's death is coming up.
You need somewhere where you cango and and get wisdom from
others who walked ahead of you.
(44:43):
And also who will just affirm,no, you're not crazy for feeling
this way.
You're not, you're not out ofbounds, you haven't transgressed
in some way, you know.
And so that's super, superhelpful.
And then if you have, you know,don't overlook your non-bereaved
friends.
I had two non-bereaved friendswho came once a month to my
(45:04):
house, brought lunch, sat withme all day.
We talked about all kinds ofstuff.
And they never corrected me,they never chastised me, they
just listened.
If I felt like crying, I couldcry.
If I didn't feel like crying, Ididn't, you know, I didn't feel
like I was dishonoring Dominicin their presence because they
(45:24):
they well understood how much Iloved him.
And that's another thing thatbereaved parents think that if
they're not activelydemonstrating some kind of
emotion that that they peoplewill think that they didn't love
their child or don't or havegotten over it or whatever.
But that was very helpful to metoo.
SPEAKER_01 (45:42):
Those those are really good words, Melanie.
And those, you know, if forthose who are listening, maybe
maybe you could just zero in onone of those things that Melanie
just shared.
And if you if you don't feellike you can remember that
because you've got grief brain,then there are there will be a
(46:03):
transcript of this episodeprovided in the uh summary
section.
So take a look at that if youwould like.
Also, you can visit Melanie'sblog site on her website.
You can visit her blog, andthere are what, there's 10 years
worth of blog messages on therefor people to plug into, and I'm
(46:29):
sure would would be helpful andencouraging and just help you in
in rediscovering meaning andpurpose in your life again.
So check that out.
But Melly, I also want you totalk a little bit more about
your ministry and what it isthat you offer through that
ministry and how people can getin touch with you.
SPEAKER_02 (46:49):
My well, about a year ago, it's been just just a
little over a year.
I've been in the griefcommunity, as Greg mentioned,
for over, well, it'll be 10years will be the first blog
post.
September 16th will be 10 yearsof writing the blog.
So I've been in the griefcommunity for 10 years, but uh I
decided that the Lord wasleading me to offer some
(47:13):
additional resources to both thegrief community, but also those
outside the grief community whominister to those inside the
grief community.
So, like ministers, pastors,churches, social workers, other
people.
And so I founded Heartache andHope, which is a 501c3
nonprofit.
It's very low-key.
(47:34):
This is not a source of incomefor myself.
It's every every bit of theministry funds are used to fund
ministry opportunities for otherpeople.
So I do in-person monthlygatherings in my local
community.
I think I've been really prayingabout it.
I'm probably going to switch tovirtual shortly so people can
look for that on my Facebookpage, which everything's posted
(47:57):
as public setting.
And I also have a publicFacebook page called Heartache
and Hope.
And I post the blog andencouraging quotes and other
things there, resources that Ifind out about.
I post there for other parentsto find and access.
I do mom retreats.
(48:17):
One of the things that the Lordreally laid on my heart was
basically what you're talkingabout, Greg, that, you know,
we're we're comforted withcomfort so that we can comfort
others.
We've most brief parents feelthis expansion in their hearts,
this desire once they get overthat initial breath-robbing few
(48:40):
months or years of our journeywhere we want to reach out to
others.
Because my greatest desire isthat no one living in darkness
thinks that darkness is allthere is.
I don't want anyone who is whois in the midst of child loss to
think that they are literallynever going to be able to do
(49:04):
this, that they're never goingto be able to carry this, that
they're never going to be ableto see any good in the world or
find hope again, because you canand you will.
SPEAKER_01 (49:15):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (49:15):
And that's really the heart of who of my ministry,
in the heart of who I am.
So the mom's retreats are these,these intimate four-day retreats
at a property that my familyowns.
They're very small.
The maximum number of peoplethat we can accommodate is six
plus me, so seven of us.
And I can just tell you, I haveI've finished the fourth one in
(49:37):
August, and I will be having thefifth one in October.
And I have seen the Lord move inso such amazing ways.
They're offered free of chargeto the people who come, and
that's through the donationsthat we're the generous
donations that people have madeto the ministry.
I also do a Blue Christmas eventfor people in my community.
(50:01):
And what I hope to do is to Ispeak to groups and do podcasts
and other things.
I've been at conferences.
Our Hearts are Home does aconference, and they do two
annual conferences a year.
And what I hope to begin doingis to develop the four-day
retreat into a one-day retreat.
(50:22):
I'm going to offer a pilot of itin October to a group in Texas
because I know some, there's alot of local groups that meet,
and it might be helpful for themto have, you know, maybe a
five-hour event where they gotget the meat of the retreat.
It won't be the same experience,but it'll it'll give them about
most of the information that Igive out.
But my heart is really forbereaved parents to understand
(50:48):
that they can stay connected orreconnect to God, that they can
that they can take theirfeelings to the Lord and lament,
and that He will help them alignthose feelings with truth.
And that when we feed ourselvestruth, that then we gain
perspective, which willultimately lead to purpose,
(51:10):
because the way we find purposepost-child loss, in in my
opinion, and based on scripture,is I've got to orient my, I've
got to position my story withinthe eternal story the Lord is
writing.
So I'm part of this greaternarrative.
And when I can recognize that,then I can say to the Lord,
(51:31):
okay, so what do you want me todo with this?
What and it and for some people,it's doing a podcast or doing a
ministry or doing retreats.
But for some people, it is assimple but equally important as
walking beside that person thatyou hear about that also lost a
child or frankly has had anyother profound loss.
(51:53):
You can come in with a mercy andsay, Hey, I'm here.
You, you know, you're not gonnabe one of those people that
says, Hey, tell me if there'sanything I can do.
You're gonna actually go withthe paper plates.
SPEAKER_00 (52:05):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (52:06):
You're gonna go and you're gonna, you're gonna drive
them, you're gonna drive them tothe doctor's appointment because
I didn't drive for like sixweeks after Dominic died because
I I didn't trust myself to drivebecause I couldn't focus, I
couldn't pay attention.
And and so, and then onceyou've, you know, once you
you're connecting with God,you're consulting his truth, and
(52:29):
you can begin to recognize thatyour story is part of a bigger
story.
Well, then, you know, I wantpeople to be equipped to
persevere because that's whatGod has called us to do.
You know, people a lot of timesthink of victory as coming in
first across the finish line.
But if you look at scripture,that's that has nothing to do
(52:50):
with victory in the kingdom ofGod.
SPEAKER_00 (52:53):
So true.
SPEAKER_02 (53:00):
And I uh Ephesians 2 10 is one of my favorite verses,
you know, for we're God'sworkmanship created in Christ
Jesus to do the good works whichhe prepared beforehand for us to
do that we may walk therein.
So there's a whole bunch tothat.
God is the one making me forwhat purpose?
To do the good works, not mygood works, the ones he's
(53:21):
already set up.
All I gotta do is just keepwalking.
And all I have to do is be theme God created me to be, even
the me post-loss, the me that'schiseled by heartache to do
what?
To do the good works that Godcreated for me to do.
And that means he's gonna putthem right in my path.
I don't have to go somewherespecial, I don't have to get on
(53:44):
a plane and travel to anothercountry.
It's the people and the and thejust that are there already, you
know, or the people that I meet.
And he does, he has all that,and then that is gonna be
ultimately something that ineternity, I believe with my
whole heart that in eternity Godis going to reveal to us the
(54:07):
ways in which our threads havebeen woven into this big
tapestry.
SPEAKER_01 (54:13):
That is so well said.
And, you know, Melanie, the workthat you're doing is so
important.
All the different aspects ofwhat your ministry looks like.
So for somebody who's listeningtoday thinking, you know, maybe
I might want to possibly go toone of those retreats, but I'm
(54:33):
not really sure.
How could they get in touch withyou and just learn more about
it?
And so they can make a, youknow, make a decision at some
point.
SPEAKER_02 (54:43):
Well, there's a couple of ways.
And I and I'll be honest witheverybody because you and I had
talked that this podcast may notcome out for a little while.
So I hope by then I've updatedthe website, but if so that it
reflects this.
Because there's such limitedspace on the retreats, what I
did for the past retreats is Ijust put it out there on the on
(55:04):
the website, which isheartacheandhope.org, and you
can go under events.
I may change that slightlybecause there was a lot of
confusion over whether, eventhough the the website is set up
to automatically drop peopleback to the wait list, I think
there was a lot of confusionabout that.
But you can either message me onFacebook, which anybody can find
(55:28):
me on Facebook, Melanie D.
Simone.
You can go to the website,heartacheandhope.org, and send
an email.
There's a a place to contactthrough there.
And I will be opening upprobably by December or of 2025
or January of 2026.
(55:49):
I'll be opening up the dates for2026.
And that's how you would do it.
SPEAKER_01 (55:54):
For those retreats.
SPEAKER_02 (55:55):
Correct.
For the retreats, yes.
And if anybody wants to contactme for any other reason, they
can do it that way too.
They can go through the throughtheir the website.
There's a contact button there,and then you can get me on
Messenger through Facebookbecause I check all of those.
SPEAKER_01 (56:13):
Yeah, perfect.
And I will include links to allof all of those that Melanie
just mentioned in her episodesummary.
So just be on the lookout forthat.
And I just want to say thanksagain, Melanie, for your
transparency, for your honesty,and giving us a glimpse into
(56:39):
your grief journey, which isvery personal.
But I think every time we dothis, not only does it benefit
us, but it also benefits thepeople that are listening who
may be in a very different placeon their grief journey.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for carving out timeand your schedule to come and be
(57:01):
our guest today.
SPEAKER_02 (57:03):
Thank you for having me.
I really, really appreciate it.
And I hope that the Lordcontinues to bless the work
you're doing through thepodcast.
SPEAKER_01 (57:11):
Thank you so much, Melanie.
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