September 12, 2025 • 51 mins
For Brian Franklin, loss came in waves — the suicide of a childhood friend, a colon cancer scare, the discovery of a benign brain tumor, his wife’s breast cancer diagnosis, and the sudden heart attack of his closest confidant. At times, the weight of it all was nearly unbearable.
Yet Brian’s story isn’t defined by tragedy. It’s defined by his remarkable capacity to reinvent. Music became his therapy, his guitar a lifeline when words failed. A bowling league offered unexpected silliness and community. And eventually, he and his wife Nicole launched Vows & Speeches, a business built on love, connection, and storytelling — a radical departure from his career in political consulting.
Brian shares candidly about grief, acknowledging: “I’m not as happy as I used to be…that happiness was living in a fantasy world where nothing bad had happened.” But he’s also discovered a different kind of contentment — one that honors fragility, embraces joy, and redefines hope itself. “Hope is a statement of intent,” he says.
This episode is a reminder that while we can’t control outcomes, we can choose how to show up — for ourselves, for others, and for the life still unfolding in front of us.
Connect with Brian on Vows & Speeches.
And on Instagram: @vowsandspeeches
Thank you for listening to Hope Comes to Visit. If this conversation helps, follow the show, share it with someone who needs hope today, and leave a review - it helps others find their way to these conversations.
New episodes drop every Monday, so you can begin your week with a little light and a lot of hope.
For more stories, reflections, and ways to connect, visit www.DanielleElliottSmith.com or follow along on Instagram @daniellesmithtv and @HopeComestoVisit
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Nice group of people that were just the funniest guys
ever, and perhaps the funniestof them, he committed suicide.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Right, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
And that was the first real.
You know I had lost friends.
I had lost friends and familymembers to illness and that sort
of thing, but nothing asintimate and as close as this
one.
And it rocked our entire friendgroup, everybody from top to
bottom.
They all loved this guy deeplyand it just was like the
(00:32):
beginning of our old age.
You know, we realized that thatwas the start of things.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Hi friends, I'm Danielle Elliott Smith and this
is Hope Comes to Visit.
This podcast was born from thebelief that even in the darkest
seasons, light can find its waythrough through storytelling,
through conversation and throughpresence with each other,
wherever you are today.
I hope that we can find someconnection and allow hope to
visit with you.
Today's guest is Brian Franklin.
Brian is the co-founder of Vowsand Speeches, a speech writing
(01:15):
and delivery coaching servicefor weddings and other events
Prior to Vows and Speeches.
For 17 years, brian led awinning political consulting and
advertising firm, serving onthe board of the American
Association of PoliticalConsultants.
Earlier in his career, he was amarketing strategist and
creative director, a high schoolteacher and a professional
(01:36):
musician.
Dubbed the humorist by the NewYork Times.
He's also been featured in APNews, brides, bridal Guides,
forbes, the New York Post andmany more.
Let's take a quick moment tothank the people that support
and sponsor the podcast.
When life takes an unexpectedturn, you deserve someone who
will stand beside you.
(01:56):
St Louis attorney Chris Dulleyoffers experienced one-on-one
legal defense.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP, or you can visit
Dullelawfirmcom that'sD-U-L-L-E-Lawfirmcom for a free
consultation.
Brian, thank you so much forjoining me on the podcast today.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I am excited to have this conversation with you
because one of the themes that Irecognize in your story, aside
from hope, is reinvention.
There are lots of pieces andparts to your story.
You've gone up and down and upand down.
(02:43):
There are lots of things thatyou've had to work through and
come out on the other side and Ifind that extraordinary.
I know that life happens to somany of us, right, but I am so
(03:03):
interested, so fascinated by howyou have navigated and continue
to pull yourself back up andput yourself back on top so we
can start, honestly, whereveryou are most comfortable
starting in your story,whichever piece feels the most
(03:25):
genuine to you.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Well, you mentioned and thanks again you mentioned
reinvention and it has been, Ithink, a recurring theme in my
life.
I mean, I started out as ateenager who wanted to be a rock
star and to be a professionalmusician and I accomplished well
(03:47):
everything but the star partAre you sure yeah.
I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, I got to do it as aprofession for a bit, but it
became apparent that I wasn'tgoing to, wasn't going to be
hitting it anytime soon.
I had someone that was a bitolder than me in a relationship
(04:13):
and and we wound up gettingmarried and I think it just was
clear that I need I was on adifferent path and so went back
to school and wound upultimately in advertising, and
so that was my first reinvention.
And part of that happened outof a massive disappointment
where I got signed to a labeland then three weeks after I got
(04:37):
signed and I got the check, theentire label got, the
management got tossed andreplaced by other people and it
just kind of threw the wholedream into a different, into a
different place.
And that's very common with,you know, music.
That happens more often thannot to people that get signed.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
You know, I think people don't realize that about
that industry is that anytimethe upper echelon of the
entertainment portion changestechnically, the rest of
whatever's underneath goes withthem.
I mean, I worked in news for awhile.
If new management came in,typically your entire news team
(05:14):
was going out with them.
It's just that entertainmentworld is constantly shifting and
maneuvering and you're alwayson edge, wondering whether or
not you're you're secure.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, and, and don't get me wrong, I look back and I
I wouldn't have signed thatstuff.
You know, for me it's not, it'snot what I would have signed,
but but it wasn't.
It was certainly a mental blowbecause you think you're on a,
on the path of your dreams andyou know, and then suddenly
(05:52):
you're you're getting the jobfor, for fourteen thousand
dollars, as a copywriter yeah,but um but it.
But I think what it taught me Igot a lesson out of that, which
was if you're not in the room,you're not in the deal, and it
was something my father said, uh, going as we went along and and
I really took that to heart andI think it informed a lot of
the rest of the things that Idid afterwards and the way that
I treated my life and business,and I became much more proactive
(06:13):
about what I was doing andperhaps more of a control freak,
but certainly more engaged andnot letting other people
represent me quite as much as Iwould otherwise.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Okay, so what did you do next?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So I went into advertising and then, um, you
know, I got married, we had akid, uh, I we had, we were
paying a lot of money for healthinsurance and, uh, and I was a
night owl at that point doingmost of my writing.
Um, after the, my son went tobed, but we were paying so much
for health insurance, I decidedto go be a teacher and try and
(06:50):
split the well, no pun intended,split the baby here and wound
up teaching high school,ultimately AP government for a
few years and just to get thehealth insurance.
And, of course, the healthinsurance doubled the second
year I was there.
But but I realized reallyquickly that I couldn't do both
things.
I couldn't be a freelancemarketing consultant and a
(07:13):
teacher.
There was just too much workand so, and I was making too
little money as a teacher.
So I went back into advertisingand I went into, reinvented
myself as a uh, going going intothe political advertising
spectrum and wound up apolitical consultant.
So that was how I wound up inpolitics and I did that for
another 17 years and that kindof got me to the point where I
(07:35):
was.
I really loved it for a while.
It was fun, I was engaged andthen, as you know, politics
turned a bit over the last 10years.
Just a smidge, just a smidge,just a smidge and the rules
changed and it wasn't nearly asmuch fun and everything became
megalomania and I started to do.
I tried a couple of differentways to get out of it, but it
(07:57):
was also the beginning of astring of things that happened
that really altered my mindsetand changed everything, and the
most significant being that oneof my closest friends we had
this big thick friend group thatwent back as far as fifth grade
(08:19):
, a nice group of people thatwere just the funniest guys ever
, and perhaps the funniest ofthem he committed suicide.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Right, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
And that was the first real.
You know I had lost friends.
I had lost friends and familymembers to illness and that sort
of thing, but nothing asintimate and as close as this
one.
And it rocked our entire friendgroup, everybody from top to
bottom.
They all loved this guy deeplyand it just was like the
(08:53):
beginning of our old age.
You know.
You realized that that was thestart of things.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So you lose this friend?
Was his suicide a surprise?
Did anyone know that he hadbeen struggling in any capacity?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
You know that's.
I think that was the thing thatthat ate at us the most is that
there was a period of timewhere we did worry about him in
this way that he seemedincredibly depressed he had
gotten divorced.
There were a few of us hadgotten divorced and it was like
the no offense to my ex-wife butit was a good thing for us.
We were happy being divorced atthat time and we probably
(09:37):
oversold it and he was havingtrouble with his own wife and I
mean he made his own decisionbut I think it was partially
informed by friends going hey,you know, this is you'll, you
can have what you want?
Yeah, you can have what you wantand find the person that's
right for you, and blah, blah,blah.
And then he got divorced and itturned out that he really
(09:57):
didn't like it, it just wasn't.
It didn't sit well with him tobe apart from his kids, and not
that it did with us, it's just,you know, I think everybody has
a different pain, tolerance, andand he, uh, he was miserable
and uh.
And so there was a period oftime where we were very
concerned and then, and then we,um, and then we relaxed because
(10:19):
things seemed to improve.
He was, he had a girlfriend, he,he was very successful and in
in every aspect of life, he wasa great dad, went to every game
you know was, was very, veryactive in his kids' lives and
seemed happy again.
And then, out of nowhere, thenit happened, and so we were just
like what you know and feltlike we had dropped the ball by
(10:42):
not paying attention to him inthat period of time.
And maybe we did, but that washard, that took a long time for
us, a lot of therapy.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
How long ago was that ?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
That was 2019.
And I had just moved out toCalifornia.
I had been in a long-distancerelationship with my wife and
for nine years I was flying backand forth.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, that's remarkable Nine years long
distances.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
That's some staying power.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I think probably the best evidence of my sales skills
was that I sold my wife on thisidea 10 years prior and she
went with it and we tried it andwe made it work, but it was, it
was.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That is definitely extraordinary.
That is a.
That's impressive.
That's, that's some seriouslove.
I saw your your snippet fromVirgin and from Richard Branson.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
The testimony of the two of you using Virgin to fly
back and forth.
That's a.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
They were the first airline to have fleet wide wifi,
and it was because they hadthat the first airline to have
fleet wide wifi and it wasbecause they had that, uh, and
it was reliable, that I was ableto to, you know, fake it and do
my job, and nobody really knewthat.
That knew the worst for it.
So it was it worked out.
But, um, but you know, Ifinally sold the house in
Florida and moved out here fulltime and and then three weeks
(12:00):
later we were dealing with thisand it, it, it took the better
half of nine months before Icould really even be functional
in any meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
What did you do to work through that level of grief
, like what allowed you to feelfunctional again?
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I think it was a combination of therapy, of
having the friend group that Idid and us really processing it
together and and feeling, andcertainly my wife being
extremely kind and and, um,sensitive to how I felt, and you
(12:39):
know how how damaged I was andand and just time, you know,
it's one of those things thatyou don't really like to think
about when it happens, becauseyou want to live the pain of it
at some level.
You want to feel it becauseit's a tribute to the person,
and then you get used to feelingit and things kind of open up.
(13:02):
So you know that happened,feeling it and things kind of
open up.
So so you know that happened.
And then, uh, you know, 10months later I, I had some
health scares.
I had a colon cancer scare thatthey couldn't, that took about
three or four months to resolveand and, uh, thankfully wasn't,
um, wasn't colon cancer, but butthey weren't sure cause it was.
It was on the edge of it.
(13:24):
And then COVID, and thensuddenly our business was tossed
and there were other things tothink about as well.
But I mean, it took years toget through that in a way that I
could talk about it withoutcrying.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So a little bit of what I'm hearing.
Initially, with losing yourfriend, what was his name?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
His name was Brian Brian, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
As well.
So losing Brian, and then thecolon cancer scare, and a little
bit of that falls under themortality umbrella right.
Yeah, make us feel like, wow, Ilike life is far more fragile
than we sometimes give it creditfor being, or we're moving so
(14:12):
fast and doing so many thingsthat we're not stopping to pay
attention and suddenly we'relosing people and we're worrying
about ourselves and we're likehow much time do we have?
So how does all of this affectyou?
How does having all of thesescares and these like losing a
(14:35):
friend and what is that doing tothe Brian who thought he was
moving to California to haveanother reinvention?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Well, you know, I think after after Brian died, it
was like how could we ever feeljoy again?
Right, that was, and I doreference, I had a.
I had a, had a cousin who's 16month old drowned in the pool
way back when and I was thefirst I was the first
(15:05):
responsible adult on the sceneand helped, shepherd them to the
funeral home and to, you know,and I saw these people at the at
their absolute worst and I was,I mean, I had PTSD after this
whole thing, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And I think I was.
I would reference in my headthe fact that 10, 15 years prior
, whatever private aches theymay have, still they were
seemingly happy they found theirway through it or with it.
And I did think about that.
(15:37):
But to be honest, thingshappened at such a fast pace
from that point I mentioned thecolon cancer I went to the
doctor, in part because I knewtwo people that were suffering
from colon cancer at the sametime and they were listing off
symptoms that I had, and so wedid that.
And then I had injuries and Ihad various things and then
(16:03):
suddenly, suddenly my, my wife,got breast cancer.
And actually before that, evenbefore that, I was diagnosed
with a what turned out to be abenign and non-moving brain
tumor.
But for I did have this onenight where I was like I didn't
(16:23):
tell anybody Cause I I got, Iget the CDs just so I can take
it to a specialist, and I poppedit into my thing and I read it
before any doctor had talked tome.
So all of a sudden I'm likethat's a brain tumor, and so I
spent the night thinking I hadlike a glioblastoma, you know
whatever.
And I woke up the next morningand thankfully a doctor friend
of mine, he's like.
He's like it's a calcifiedmeningioma, we think, and it's
(16:46):
fine, you know it's not, it'snot going to be a problem, and
and and turned out not to be aproblem, but it was just just
one of those things.
It was scary and I had like anexistential like who am I, what
am I?
You know all this stuff Right.
And then after that my wife gotbreast cancer.
You know all that coincidedwith her stepfather dying during
(17:16):
COVID and having again coloncancer and then she got breast
cancer and thankfully she gotthrough it.
Another one of, and probably myclosest friend in the friend
group at the time and a deepconfidant of mine, passed away
suddenly of a heart attack andwe were worried about him and
(17:37):
his health.
There were other contributingfactors and that was the one
that just laid me.
Laid you out, yeah, completely.
That just laid me out.
Laid you out, yeah, completely.
That knocked me out, thatknocked me sideways in a way
that even the first one- youthought the first one was the
one that knocked you out.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And then this one was a completely different thing.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
The other one was, you know, brian was more private
.
This guy's name was Nate and hewas different and I loved them
both dearly.
But this one was someone that Italked to three times a week
and we were sharing very deeplypersonal thoughts and very open
(18:17):
with each other and he was veryhelpful.
My wife and I had been havingsome trouble in our marriage to
the year before.
He was like kind of the, thebroker, you know and that, and
and helped us see that we, weshould be together and we and we
were, we did and we are andwe're great.
But but that was the one that II was like, okay, I don't know
(18:41):
how I'm going to get throughthis and it was a terrible.
The timing of it was terrible.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
This was just about two years ago, right.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Yeah, yeah, it was two years ago, and two years ago
in June, and that was really.
I also played music with himoccasionally and that was really
where the first thing happened,which was I realized that I
found it took me about a monthbefore I could even pick up a
guitar, but once I did, Istarted to do it almost
(19:12):
obsessively and that was thefirst thing that it was just a
tool for me to process and tohave a little bit of fun in some
way or another, at a time whereI really couldn't imagine
smiling even.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
It's it, our timelines are very similar.
On on the grief piece, mysignificant other passed away in
August of 2023.
And that was my.
I don't know how I'm like.
I don't know how to movethrough this.
I don't know what this lookslike and I had never experienced
(19:55):
a loss like that and I rememberhearing being given an
explanation that you know grief,it's not like grief gets
smaller, it's that your lifegets bigger around it, not like
grief gets smaller, it's thatyour life gets bigger around it.
(20:16):
So it's almost like if you canimagine grief being fist-sized
and your life continues to getbigger.
At the time that it happens.
Your entire life is that size.
And then, as you grow, as youbegin to smile a little bit, as
you begin to play the guitarright.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And you begin to live again a bit and experience and
love.
But the grief we experience, Itruly believe, is proportionate
to the love we feel, right?
So I grieved because I loved.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
And you grieved because this person was such a
huge presence in your life.
You talked every day.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, but I also realized very quickly and I saw
this in the first instance withBrian too but everybody grieves
differently.
You know, there are friendsthat I had that loved him every
bit as much, but they didn'tshow their grief outwardly.
You know, they felt it just asdeeply but they weren't talking
(21:26):
about it or they pushed it asidebecause they had other
responsibilities that they hadto meet in that moment and they
were perhaps more capable ofdoing that.
You know, I had the job, that akind of job where I make my own
hours and I do my own.
You know, I'm lucky enough towork remotely, so you know, if
you're grieving, you have plentyof time to do it, and so I
(21:48):
think I was conscious of that.
I've always liked the analogywhere grief, the weight of grief
, never changes.
You just get stronger atcarrying it and you train
yourself in the same way thatyou would train in weightlifting
, right, and I've always felt anaffinity towards that
(22:10):
particular analogy.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
But I, you know, I went and got a tattoo and I did,
you know, I did things thatwere helpful to my healing and
my tribute to him in some levelor another and and it was, uh,
(22:33):
it, it was hard and you, but yourealize, I was also his, uh,
his sister, who I've known sincewe were kids, but not as
closely, I mean, we didn't spenda lot of time with each other.
Uh, after that we becameextremely close and with her
husband and my, you know, mywife, and we became extremely
close and with her husband andmy wife, and we became a friend.
We had this new little pod offriends that were looking at it
(22:57):
kind of the same way and feelingthose same feelings, and we
started going down south to SanClemente, to where they live,
and really actually they wereelsewhere at the time, but now
they're in San Clemente, but youknow, we were, we'd spend time
with them and we would just talkabout him and we we'd have fun
(23:17):
and we, we, we.
It wasn't all grief, but it was, but you could break down if
you needed to, you know, andwhere they could, and it was, it
was really healing.
Um, but I started, you know, Istarted to play guitar and uh,
and then I tried to put a littleband together and uh, and some
(23:38):
weird, really weird, oddcoincidences happened along the
way.
Um, that that I felt I'm notparticularly spiritual or
mystical, but but definitelythings that I went like that's
really weird, but I enjoyed themwhen they happened.
It was something that just mademe feel a little bit better,
(24:01):
and once in a while they stilldo, and it's just I can't
explain it.
It's just stuff that makes youfeel good when it happens.
But the band thing kind ofdissipated, I got bored of
playing in my room and I waskind of going out of my skull
and I was always.
The Big Lebowski is one of myfavorite movies and I always
(24:27):
wanted to be in a bowling league.
But I was traveling for nineyears going back and forth, and
so one day I found this.
I was like I wonder if there'sa bowling league around here.
I'll just, maybe I'll explorethat idea.
And the first thing I saw wasthis Tarzana, the Corbin Bowl.
There they had the bigLabruskis and it was just a beer
(24:48):
league.
That's funny and I'm like, well, I guess I have to do this one.
So I signed up for it and theyput me on a team with.
It was mid season, so there wasjust a team with one other guy
at first and he hadn't bowled in17 years and barely talked.
And it was like this old guythat barely talked to anyone and
(25:09):
I was like what am I doing?
This is I would come out ofthere and I'd start crying.
You know, just like what am Idoing here?
Like this is ridiculous.
And and so that guy broke hisleg somehow, and I'm not
laughing at his broken leg, I'mjust like the weirdness of this
whole thing.
And so I wound up on a secondteam that I knew was temporary,
(25:31):
and that was a bizarreexperience too.
And so I wound up on a secondteam that I knew was temporary,
and that was a bizarreexperience too.
And then, finally, I wound up onthis third team with the nicest
of people, like the funniest,sweetest people, and and I, it
was just, it was just somethingthat I I was like, okay, this is
(25:51):
fun, I can have fun.
This is my one night a weekwhere I know this is going to be
something different.
It's a diversion that I, that Ican get through, and I opened
myself up to that.
And suddenly, and when I did, Irealized this is a source of
this isn't just fun, this isjoyful because it's just a
riotous league, like if youleave a certain pin, if you
leave the five pin up in thefirst frame, everybody starts
(26:13):
yelling at you and tries to getyou to miss it, and then, if you
miss it, you put five bucks ina hat.
It's just silliness, right.
And it was like all of a suddenI was healing and I still felt
every bit as sad about myfriends as I have, right.
But it was in that period that Irealized, like man, this
(26:40):
wouldn't have happened if Iwasn't in that previous spot and
I would trade anything to havenot been there.
But now I am and this iswonderful, and along that I
glossed over.
But I want to also say that inthe midst of this, prior to him
(27:00):
dying, we were worried about mywife dying.
Thankfully we caught it earlyand thankfully it wasn't too
aggressive and she got throughit okay.
But we were still celebratingher victory when all of this
happened, and so we had thiscontrast in our lives at that
(27:21):
time where we were ecstaticabout this success, and then,
you know, so we still in thebackground, though we were
ecstatic about that thing, andit was something really low and
you've had to focus on how toexperience joy again because
(27:58):
you're having these, theseexperiences where you're worried
about Nicole and then you'recelebrating okay, she's, she's,
okay, we're good, like I stillhave you.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
And you've lost another friend.
But you're actively puttingyourself in situations where you
get to be silly, you get toremember what it looks like to
live.
Yeah, Because you're choosing.
You're choosing joy.
(28:34):
You're choosing situationswhere you are doing life.
What have you learned aboutyourself?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Well, I'll start with the change in how I live.
I definitely live with notnecessarily a fear of things
changing, but I know I'mdefinitely aware of the
impermanence factor and itpervades of my thinking.
(29:07):
For sure.
I know that things can changein a heartbeat and we're dealing
with that right now.
One of our closest friends,also in this friend group, is
dealing with a very serioushealth crisis with his
five-year-old.
That just came about and it's aterrible situation and it
happened out of nowheresituation and and it happened
(29:34):
out, you know, out of nowhereand uh, and hopefully he will be
okay, but it, but we don't knowthat yet.
And and so we're.
You know, five days prioreverything was kind of on its on
its track and uh, and so so,yeah, you keep getting reminded
about the impermanence of yoursituation, but it goes in both
directions the happiness thatyou're feeling you might not
(29:58):
feel that way tomorrow, but atthe little victories and the
little joys and not be quite asfocused on the big picture as
much as having a good moment intime and appreciating that for
what it is, which is it's prettydamn important if you can have
(30:28):
a good hour, you know, if you'restill having a good hour.
You can have a good hour, youknow.
You know if you're still havinga good hour, it's a good hour,
you know, and it has value, evenif it's incremental.
And I think that's part of it.
I'm not.
I'm not as happy as I used tobe.
I mean I'm definitely.
I think I don't know if I'llever be happy the way I used to
(30:51):
be again, because I think thathappiness was living in a
fantasy world of luck thatnothing that bad had happened
beforehand, and so you know, Ithink it's just awareness that
this is how the world works andthis.
You know, these things do happen.
And if you look around you, yousee the people that have to
(31:13):
suffer earlier in their livesand they're changed by it too,
and it's and but.
That's that's more accurate.
So I I look back with a littlebit of like you were naive, you
were living in a fantasy world,buddy, because you didn't know
what was coming naive, you wereliving in a fantasy world, buddy
, because you didn't know whatwas coming.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
So is there a fear that exists?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
in you now that wasn't there before.
Is it a that you're worriedthat?
Yeah, I guess I don't know ifI'd call it fear.
I think there's, and it's notreally even pessimism.
I'm just, I just know that thathappiness can't be depended on,
or success even.
You know, we've had some yearsof struggle because of just some
(32:05):
things that were in our control, but a lot of things that
weren't, like the cancer, andlike I had a bunch of injuries,
you know, but there were, andthese things that happened that
disabled you for six months, 10months at a time, and you're not
being your efficient self as a,as an entrepreneur and a
business owner.
You're just not doing the workas much, and so, uh, you have to
(32:26):
just know that those things are, are, might be coming or could
be coming, and and might becoming or could be coming, and,
and, and I it's not pessimism,it's just just awareness and
maybe a little bit of suspicionrather than fear.
But but I I've had a lot of.
(32:47):
You know, like I recruited mywife, she has her own bowling
team now.
Like we have this whole thingnow and it's turned into such an
incredible source of joy andbonding thing and it's been
amazing, and we're not evengreat bowlers.
I tore my shoulder.
(33:08):
I started bowling with my leftarm, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And giving yourself injuries.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, I'm a mess, but I think from a living
standpoint I'm much more aware.
You know Billy Bob Thornton.
I don't know if you ever heardthe quote that he had about his
brother I don't know if I have.
It's magical.
It's such an important quotethat a friend of mine sent me
once and I'm paraphrasing.
(33:37):
But he basically said that atany given moment I'm 50% happy
and 50% sad because his brotherdied early.
Okay, and he goes, but that'swhat my brother meant to me and
if I am sad at that point intime because he's gone, then
(33:57):
that's what he deserves.
And I'll never you know I'llnever be completely happy again,
but that's okay because that'sa tribute.
You know, I'm paraphrasing.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
He did it much more eloquently.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
No, I'm taking it all in, no, I like it, yeah, and I
loved it because it gave, um, itgave power to your grief, it
gave authority to it and, uh,and it gave authority to sadness
in these events, cause I'm sure, and I you know, I don't know
the circumstances of your loss,but I, I'm sure that, um, that
(34:31):
when you feel sad, that it isbecause of the value, and and
when you feel happy, it's not arejection of that value.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
No, absolutely not.
And I I think that that's.
I was having a conversationwith a girlfriend who lost her
son and you know she wentthrough a process with.
You know, will I ever?
She lost him a few years agonow and she has since remarried
(35:02):
and and she said there have beentimes when I will be with my
new husband and I will findmyself laughing.
And then I think, wait, am Iallowed to laugh?
Am I, am I allowed toexperience joy?
And I finally reached a pointwhere I have given myself that
permission because he would wantme to be laughing and
(35:26):
experiencing joy and enjoyinglife.
And it doesn't mean that Idon't miss him and it doesn't
mean that there isn't thisgigantic hole in my heart that
represents his loss.
But I'm not sitting at home inthe dark for the rest of my
existence.
I am choosing to live.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
And I think about it that way because it did take me
some time to walk out the frontdoor again to get up off the
floor.
To you know, I heard myselfmake sounds that I Um, you know
I heard myself make sounds that.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
I at times.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I wasn't sure where it was coming from until I
realized that it was me.
Um, but there was a.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
There was a lot for me to work with and through and
um but I, I'm, yeah, I found itkind of ironic that, looking
back, that Nate um, the secondone, uh, he, he was suffering
(36:32):
from grief in his own right.
His brother had a horribledisease Huntington's disease and
chose to chose to end his ownlife rather than decline that
way, and and Nate was there whenhe did it and and he and he was
(36:54):
suffering greatly, but he wasalso able to have fun and to see
past that too.
I mean, he was able to do theother things and be a good
parent and but he wasunquestionably suffering, but he
was also able to do that.
And so I have, many times sincethen, looked back and used him
(37:16):
as a model for my own grief ofhim.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
And it's just, you know, it's weird how long after
losing his brother did Nate passaway.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
About nine months, yeah, and it feels a little bit
like broken heart syndrome.
Oh, it was, and I think in part,and you know he was also
unhealthy and you know just inhis habits and not didn't take
care of himself the way heneeded to and should, but that
(37:47):
was part of it too.
I think it was he was.
He dove head first into sorrowat some level, which is terribly
sad for his sister and his mom,who you know, who lost to two
of the kids and two of theiryeah, two of their closest
people in a very short period oftime yeah, in such a short
period of time, and their griefwas profound in that way.
(38:11):
I don't even know how they gotthrough it, but they allowed
through too, and it's still athing.
It's always going to be a thing, but yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I'm curious what all of this life experience, the up
and the down, does with yourwriting, because we haven't
talked about what you do for aliving.
Yeah, we did talk about thepolitical work, right, and one
of the reasons you're not doingthat anymore is because of the
(38:43):
direction it has taken, and somuch of that direction is
negative and hateful and hurtful.
And the work you do now is soheart-centered and loving and
(39:05):
beautiful and compassionate andsoul filled.
So let's talk, explain toeveryone what you do, because
you're the first of a kind interms of of this type of work
that I've ever heard of.
So explain to everybody whatyou do for work.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
So my my wife, nicole and I started a company in 2021
that helps people write andrehearse their wedding vows,
wedding speeches, ceremonyscripts If you have a friend or
family member that's doing theofficiating, like the internet
ordained, that kind of thingthat are inexperienced, uh so we
, we enter it's all interviewbased.
I do an hour long interview towrite a minute or two of vows.
(39:40):
We get into all of the ins andouts of relationships.
So I'm actually writing a bookright now based on the lessons
I've learned from these uh, fromthese interviews.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
And oh, I love that.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, it's called uh.
Hopefully it will be out inearly, uh early or midwinter,
maybe by Valentine's day, if Ican get myself to together to do
it.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
You'll have to let us know so that I can link to it
in the show notes when you do,but you know I don't use AI,
it's all remote, it's all overthe phone.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Thank you, and it's pure.
It has been so much fun andreally I should have mentioned
it earlier.
It's one of the things that gotme through because I loved
doing it and I think you know ithasn't been easy.
It's, you know, startups take awhile.
(40:31):
We were hampered by otherfactors and monetarily and grief
was a major impediment here.
You know it was certainly amajor impediment.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Well, you're talking about pure emotion, right?
So, how do you channel purelove and devotion and soul when
you are weighed down by hurt?
So it's you know, I mean thattakes work.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, You're listening to people talk about
their favorite people and therehave been difficult moments.
It actually led to me being.
It led to a referral to helpsomebody write their eulogy, and
I've not done a few of them,but but the first one that I did
was a profound experience andwe, you know, I was just it was
(41:29):
a year out from from Nate's lossand I and I really wanted to
help him, put a voice to his,his feelings, and help him
through that moment.
And and it was.
It was amazing and I feltexperienced at that point.
I felt, I felt, like I hadauthority on it and uh and uh.
But yeah, most of the timewe're talking happy stuff and
and I'm very lucky to do it, Ilove doing it.
It's it Not everybody's a greatwriter and even great writers
(41:52):
struggle to edit themselves inthese very emotionally powerful
moments.
And some people have are goodwriters but they are afraid to
get up there and deliver it.
And I know you've been in media.
It takes, takes some practiceand I'm you're, you've been in
media.
It takes, takes some practice.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
And I'm a word nerd.
I love, I love words and I lovewordsmithing, and I've for
years had friends come to me toput words together for difficult
moments, whether it's what tosay at a eulogy or um.
I've never written anyone'svows but um, but I.
I have written for for somedifficult times um, both joyful
(42:29):
and and and challenging, but um,but I.
I love emotion, I love and Iand I love words.
So I I was fascinated, from themoment we first connected, that
this is what you do, and I canimagine that your life
experience over the last six,eight years has truly informed
(42:53):
the work you're doing.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
That and, having done this thing in a different way
for politicians, you know, likethe interviews and the and the
media training that you that youdo I'm not a comfortable
extemporaneous speaker unless Iknow what I'm talking about for
certain.
You know, I know where I'mgoing with it.
I stutter, I do all of the umsand you knows and dudes and all
(43:19):
that stuff, but I can easilypractice myself out of it and I
know the technique to do it, andso it was fun to apply it to
this to give people thatconfidence that sometimes they
lack.
A lot of people don't do theirown personal vows because they
think they're going to beoutmatched by their partner.
(43:39):
In fact, we didn't do our ownvows oh really In fact when we
got married because Nicole knewthat I was a professional fact.
We didn't do our own vows backwhen we got married because
Nicole knew that I was aprofessional writer and she
didn't, even though she's a finewriter, she just didn't feel
like she could do it justice,and that's the feeling that we
want to help out with in thisinstance.
But yeah, having something likethat too in your life've.
(44:02):
One thing that came out of thatis that I'm willing to live
down to whatever lifestyle thatallows me to do this work Like.
To me, this is my last job,because I can't imagine not
doing it now and I think as Iget older and all of these
things have happened, havingthat feeling is so much more
(44:26):
important to me than having someother form of success.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I understand that.
That's where I am with thisright now.
This is finally being able tohave the honor of talking to
people about their, theirstories.
I think stories are so powerful, right, and my goal is that,
(44:54):
when people are listening, thatthey have a moment where they
say, oh, me too, and within that, me too they think, oh, I know
someone who needs to hear this,I know someone who's going
through something just like this, or who has gone through it, or
who needs this as a resource,or will feel better if they know
(45:18):
they're not alone, because Ithink that so many experiences
we go through are so isolatingand we have no idea that there
are other people going throughall of these things.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
All of these emotions , all of these challenges, and
there is so much power infeeling seen.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Including the people that are dying.
I recently did an end of lifeinterview for my cousin, who was
the one that helped me go tothe doctor back in.
You know, however, many yearsago and unfortunately, you know,
he succumbed to his cancer.
I'm sorry, but he and I had a.
(46:08):
I wanted to help him have arecord for his kids later on, so
we did five hours of end oflife interview.
That's amazing and it wasaffecting.
It was affecting, and I thinkfor me it was.
(46:30):
It was helpful too, because I Iappreciated his perspective.
It didn't.
It helped me with the grief oflosing him, which, but you know,
he didn't want to go, you know.
But but at the same time he knewhe was pretty aware of where he
was and I think that awarenesshe became.
(46:53):
He did the same thing inreverse.
He found the things that wereimportant now and that moment.
And it wasn't his to do listsand it wasn't, you know, it
wasn't the noise in thebackground, it was, it was his
family and and and having funwith them now, as much fun as
they could possibly have in thatsituation.
And and then you find you.
(47:14):
You find, as the aggrievedlater on, that you're you.
You're doing the same thing.
You're trying to trying to getback to that, you know.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
I have an interview like that coming up.
I have a girlfriend who reachedout to me when I first
mentioned that I was doing thepodcast and she was given a
difficult diagnosis and she saidshe wanted to come on and talk.
So I'm very privileged in thatI get to sit here and help
(47:43):
people to share what theirversion of hope looks like.
So what is?
How do you define hope?
Speaker 1 (47:58):
You know it's funny.
I think I define it.
I think I define it almost likewedding vows.
You know it's a statement ofintent.
You know it's hope isn't.
Sometimes all you can do ishope.
Sometimes hope is a part ofyour manifestation technique.
(48:29):
But to me it's like I want thisto happen and I may not have
power over it Maybe I do, but Idefinitely am going to think
about that piece of it Becauseif I don't, I'm thinking about
the worst thing that can happen.
And I have a Folgers can up onmy shelf which, if any big
Lebowski fans remember that partin the movie, you know there's
(48:53):
ashes in it and I've actuallyhave it in my will to put it in
there and kind of reenact thescene which I found so much
laughter in.
And I really hope my familywill do that because I want
there to be some silliness.
You know I want people to findthat joy that we had.
(49:14):
However they can find it, and Ialso make a try and make a joke
out of anything I can.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Heads the humorist.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah, you know it hasn't shown up much here
because of the topic, but I'lltell you it's.
You know, humor is a big partof getting through it too.
You just have to find reasonsto make yourself laugh.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
I completely agree.
Where can people find you toconnect with you?
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Vows and sorry, can't talk to you Vowsandspeechescom.
That'sV-O-W-S-A-N-D-S-P-E-E-C-H-E-Scom
, and you'll be in the shownotes, I'm sure, but that's the
best way to reach out to me andjust go to the contact and
there's my email and phonenumbers there and I'm happy to
talk to you.
Anyone that needs help withanything like that.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
That's amazing.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with me today.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
It's been wonderful to have you.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Is there anything that you'd like to share that I
didn't ask you?
Speaker 1 (50:09):
No, I think I think we covered it, but I, you know,
for anybody that's out, I justwant to say that, for anybody
that's out there that isgrieving or looking for hope,
you know, I just hope you findit and that you know, leave
yourself open as much as you can.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
I love that.
Brian, thank you so much forspending time with me.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
I appreciate it and, friends, thank you for spending
time with Brian and I today.
This has been Hope Comes toVisit, and I so hope that we
have met you where you are todayand that you have found a
little bit of hope and a littlebit of light, and that you will
take the time to share this withsomeone you know and love, who
you think needs to hear it, andbetween now and the next episode
(50:51):
, I do hope you will take verygood care of you.
Thanks for being with us.
Naturally, it's important tothank the people who support and
sponsor the podcast.
This episode is supported byChris Dulley, a trusted criminal
defense attorney and friend ofmine here in St Louis, who
believes in second chances andsolid representation.
(51:12):
Whether you're facing a DWI,felony or traffic issue, chris
handles your case personallywith clarity, compassion and
over 15 years of experience.
When things feel uncertain, ithelps to have someone steady in
your corner.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP or you can visit
dullylawfirmcom to schedule yourfree consultation.
Nice group of people that were just the funniest guys
ever, and perhaps the funniestof them, he committed suicide.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Right, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
And that was the first real.
You know I had lost friends.
I had lost friends and familymembers to illness and that sort
of thing, but nothing asintimate and as close as this
one.
And it rocked our entire friendgroup, everybody from top to
bottom.
They all loved this guy deeplyand it just was like the
(00:32):
beginning of our old age.
You know, we realized that thatwas the start of things.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Hi friends, I'm Danielle Elliott Smith and this
is Hope Comes to Visit.
This podcast was born from thebelief that even in the darkest
seasons, light can find its waythrough through storytelling,
through conversation and throughpresence with each other,
wherever you are today.
I hope that we can find someconnection and allow hope to
visit with you.
Today's guest is Brian Franklin.
Brian is the co-founder of Vowsand Speeches, a speech writing
(01:15):
and delivery coaching servicefor weddings and other events
Prior to Vows and Speeches.
For 17 years, brian led awinning political consulting and
advertising firm, serving onthe board of the American
Association of PoliticalConsultants.
Earlier in his career, he was amarketing strategist and
creative director, a high schoolteacher and a professional
(01:36):
musician.
Dubbed the humorist by the NewYork Times.
He's also been featured in APNews, brides, bridal Guides,
forbes, the New York Post andmany more.
Let's take a quick moment tothank the people that support
and sponsor the podcast.
When life takes an unexpectedturn, you deserve someone who
will stand beside you.
(01:56):
St Louis attorney Chris Dulleyoffers experienced one-on-one
legal defense.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP, or you can visit
Dullelawfirmcom that'sD-U-L-L-E-Lawfirmcom for a free
consultation.
Brian, thank you so much forjoining me on the podcast today.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Great to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
I am excited to have this conversation with you
because one of the themes that Irecognize in your story, aside
from hope, is reinvention.
There are lots of pieces andparts to your story.
You've gone up and down and upand down.
(02:43):
There are lots of things thatyou've had to work through and
come out on the other side and Ifind that extraordinary.
I know that life happens to somany of us, right, but I am so
(03:03):
interested, so fascinated by howyou have navigated and continue
to pull yourself back up andput yourself back on top so we
can start, honestly, whereveryou are most comfortable
starting in your story,whichever piece feels the most
(03:25):
genuine to you.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Well, you mentioned and thanks again you mentioned
reinvention and it has been, Ithink, a recurring theme in my
life.
I mean, I started out as ateenager who wanted to be a rock
star and to be a professionalmusician and I accomplished well
(03:47):
everything but the star partAre you sure yeah.
I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, I got to do it as aprofession for a bit, but it
became apparent that I wasn'tgoing to, wasn't going to be
hitting it anytime soon.
I had someone that was a bitolder than me in a relationship
(04:13):
and and we wound up gettingmarried and I think it just was
clear that I need I was on adifferent path and so went back
to school and wound upultimately in advertising, and
so that was my first reinvention.
And part of that happened outof a massive disappointment
where I got signed to a labeland then three weeks after I got
(04:37):
signed and I got the check, theentire label got, the
management got tossed andreplaced by other people and it
just kind of threw the wholedream into a different, into a
different place.
And that's very common with,you know, music.
That happens more often thannot to people that get signed.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
You know, I think people don't realize that about
that industry is that anytimethe upper echelon of the
entertainment portion changestechnically, the rest of
whatever's underneath goes withthem.
I mean, I worked in news for awhile.
If new management came in,typically your entire news team
(05:14):
was going out with them.
It's just that entertainmentworld is constantly shifting and
maneuvering and you're alwayson edge, wondering whether or
not you're you're secure.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, and, and don't get me wrong, I look back and I
I wouldn't have signed thatstuff.
You know, for me it's not, it'snot what I would have signed,
but but it wasn't.
It was certainly a mental blowbecause you think you're on a,
on the path of your dreams andyou know, and then suddenly
(05:52):
you're you're getting the jobfor, for fourteen thousand
dollars, as a copywriter yeah,but um but it.
But I think what it taught me Igot a lesson out of that, which
was if you're not in the room,you're not in the deal, and it
was something my father said, uh, going as we went along and and
I really took that to heart andI think it informed a lot of
the rest of the things that Idid afterwards and the way that
I treated my life and business,and I became much more proactive
(06:13):
about what I was doing andperhaps more of a control freak,
but certainly more engaged andnot letting other people
represent me quite as much as Iwould otherwise.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Okay, so what did you do next?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So I went into advertising and then, um, you
know, I got married, we had akid, uh, I we had, we were
paying a lot of money for healthinsurance and, uh, and I was a
night owl at that point doingmost of my writing.
Um, after the, my son went tobed, but we were paying so much
for health insurance, I decidedto go be a teacher and try and
(06:50):
split the well, no pun intended,split the baby here and wound
up teaching high school,ultimately AP government for a
few years and just to get thehealth insurance.
And, of course, the healthinsurance doubled the second
year I was there.
But but I realized reallyquickly that I couldn't do both
things.
I couldn't be a freelancemarketing consultant and a
(07:13):
teacher.
There was just too much workand so, and I was making too
little money as a teacher.
So I went back into advertisingand I went into, reinvented
myself as a uh, going going intothe political advertising
spectrum and wound up apolitical consultant.
So that was how I wound up inpolitics and I did that for
another 17 years and that kindof got me to the point where I
(07:35):
was.
I really loved it for a while.
It was fun, I was engaged andthen, as you know, politics
turned a bit over the last 10years.
Just a smidge, just a smidge,just a smidge and the rules
changed and it wasn't nearly asmuch fun and everything became
megalomania and I started to do.
I tried a couple of differentways to get out of it, but it
(07:57):
was also the beginning of astring of things that happened
that really altered my mindsetand changed everything, and the
most significant being that oneof my closest friends we had
this big thick friend group thatwent back as far as fifth grade
(08:19):
, a nice group of people thatwere just the funniest guys ever
, and perhaps the funniest ofthem he committed suicide.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Right, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
And that was the first real.
You know I had lost friends.
I had lost friends and familymembers to illness and that sort
of thing, but nothing asintimate and as close as this
one.
And it rocked our entire friendgroup, everybody from top to
bottom.
They all loved this guy deeplyand it just was like the
(08:53):
beginning of our old age.
You know.
You realized that that was thestart of things.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So you lose this friend?
Was his suicide a surprise?
Did anyone know that he hadbeen struggling in any capacity?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
You know that's.
I think that was the thing thatthat ate at us the most is that
there was a period of timewhere we did worry about him in
this way that he seemedincredibly depressed he had
gotten divorced.
There were a few of us hadgotten divorced and it was like
the no offense to my ex-wife butit was a good thing for us.
We were happy being divorced atthat time and we probably
(09:37):
oversold it and he was havingtrouble with his own wife and I
mean he made his own decisionbut I think it was partially
informed by friends going hey,you know, this is you'll, you
can have what you want?
Yeah, you can have what you wantand find the person that's
right for you, and blah, blah,blah.
And then he got divorced and itturned out that he really
(09:57):
didn't like it, it just wasn't.
It didn't sit well with him tobe apart from his kids, and not
that it did with us, it's just,you know, I think everybody has
a different pain, tolerance, andand he, uh, he was miserable
and uh.
And so there was a period oftime where we were very
concerned and then, and then we,um, and then we relaxed because
(10:19):
things seemed to improve.
He was, he had a girlfriend, he,he was very successful and in
in every aspect of life, he wasa great dad, went to every game
you know was, was very, veryactive in his kids' lives and
seemed happy again.
And then, out of nowhere, thenit happened, and so we were just
like what you know and feltlike we had dropped the ball by
(10:42):
not paying attention to him inthat period of time.
And maybe we did, but that washard, that took a long time for
us, a lot of therapy.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
How long ago was that ?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
That was 2019.
And I had just moved out toCalifornia.
I had been in a long-distancerelationship with my wife and
for nine years I was flying backand forth.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, that's remarkable Nine years long
distances.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
That's some staying power.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
I think probably the best evidence of my sales skills
was that I sold my wife on thisidea 10 years prior and she
went with it and we tried it andwe made it work, but it was, it
was.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That is definitely extraordinary.
That is a.
That's impressive.
That's, that's some seriouslove.
I saw your your snippet fromVirgin and from Richard Branson.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
The testimony of the two of you using Virgin to fly
back and forth.
That's a.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
They were the first airline to have fleet wide wifi,
and it was because they hadthat the first airline to have
fleet wide wifi and it wasbecause they had that, uh, and
it was reliable, that I was ableto to, you know, fake it and do
my job, and nobody really knewthat.
That knew the worst for it.
So it was it worked out.
But, um, but you know, Ifinally sold the house in
Florida and moved out here fulltime and and then three weeks
(12:00):
later we were dealing with thisand it, it, it took the better
half of nine months before Icould really even be functional
in any meaningful way.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
What did you do to work through that level of grief
, like what allowed you to feelfunctional again?
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I think it was a combination of therapy, of
having the friend group that Idid and us really processing it
together and and feeling, andcertainly my wife being
extremely kind and and, um,sensitive to how I felt, and you
(12:39):
know how how damaged I was andand and just time, you know,
it's one of those things thatyou don't really like to think
about when it happens, becauseyou want to live the pain of it
at some level.
You want to feel it becauseit's a tribute to the person,
and then you get used to feelingit and things kind of open up.
(13:02):
So you know that happened,feeling it and things kind of
open up.
So so you know that happened.
And then, uh, you know, 10months later I, I had some
health scares.
I had a colon cancer scare thatthey couldn't, that took about
three or four months to resolveand and, uh, thankfully wasn't,
um, wasn't colon cancer, but butthey weren't sure cause it was.
It was on the edge of it.
(13:24):
And then COVID, and thensuddenly our business was tossed
and there were other things tothink about as well.
But I mean, it took years toget through that in a way that I
could talk about it withoutcrying.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
So a little bit of what I'm hearing.
Initially, with losing yourfriend, what was his name?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
His name was Brian Brian, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
As well.
So losing Brian, and then thecolon cancer scare, and a little
bit of that falls under themortality umbrella right.
Yeah, make us feel like, wow, Ilike life is far more fragile
than we sometimes give it creditfor being, or we're moving so
(14:12):
fast and doing so many thingsthat we're not stopping to pay
attention and suddenly we'relosing people and we're worrying
about ourselves and we're likehow much time do we have?
So how does all of this affectyou?
How does having all of thesescares and these like losing a
(14:35):
friend and what is that doing tothe Brian who thought he was
moving to California to haveanother reinvention?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Well, you know, I think after after Brian died, it
was like how could we ever feeljoy again?
Right, that was, and I doreference, I had a.
I had a, had a cousin who's 16month old drowned in the pool
way back when and I was thefirst I was the first
(15:05):
responsible adult on the sceneand helped, shepherd them to the
funeral home and to, you know,and I saw these people at the at
their absolute worst and I was,I mean, I had PTSD after this
whole thing, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
And I think I was.
I would reference in my headthe fact that 10, 15 years prior
, whatever private aches theymay have, still they were
seemingly happy they found theirway through it or with it.
And I did think about that.
(15:37):
But to be honest, thingshappened at such a fast pace
from that point I mentioned thecolon cancer I went to the
doctor, in part because I knewtwo people that were suffering
from colon cancer at the sametime and they were listing off
symptoms that I had, and so wedid that.
And then I had injuries and Ihad various things and then
(16:03):
suddenly, suddenly my, my wife,got breast cancer.
And actually before that, evenbefore that, I was diagnosed
with a what turned out to be abenign and non-moving brain
tumor.
But for I did have this onenight where I was like I didn't
(16:23):
tell anybody Cause I I got, Iget the CDs just so I can take
it to a specialist, and I poppedit into my thing and I read it
before any doctor had talked tome.
So all of a sudden I'm likethat's a brain tumor, and so I
spent the night thinking I hadlike a glioblastoma, you know
whatever.
And I woke up the next morningand thankfully a doctor friend
of mine, he's like.
He's like it's a calcifiedmeningioma, we think, and it's
(16:46):
fine, you know it's not, it'snot going to be a problem, and
and and turned out not to be aproblem, but it was just just
one of those things.
It was scary and I had like anexistential like who am I, what
am I?
You know all this stuff Right.
And then after that my wife gotbreast cancer.
You know all that coincidedwith her stepfather dying during
(17:16):
COVID and having again coloncancer and then she got breast
cancer and thankfully she gotthrough it.
Another one of, and probably myclosest friend in the friend
group at the time and a deepconfidant of mine, passed away
suddenly of a heart attack andwe were worried about him and
(17:37):
his health.
There were other contributingfactors and that was the one
that just laid me.
Laid you out, yeah, completely.
That just laid me out.
Laid you out, yeah, completely.
That knocked me out, thatknocked me sideways in a way
that even the first one- youthought the first one was the
one that knocked you out.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And then this one was a completely different thing.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
The other one was, you know, brian was more private
.
This guy's name was Nate and hewas different and I loved them
both dearly.
But this one was someone that Italked to three times a week
and we were sharing very deeplypersonal thoughts and very open
(18:17):
with each other and he was veryhelpful.
My wife and I had been havingsome trouble in our marriage to
the year before.
He was like kind of the, thebroker, you know and that, and
and helped us see that we, weshould be together and we and we
were, we did and we are andwe're great.
But but that was the one that II was like, okay, I don't know
(18:41):
how I'm going to get throughthis and it was a terrible.
The timing of it was terrible.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
This was just about two years ago, right.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Yeah, yeah, it was two years ago, and two years ago
in June, and that was really.
I also played music with himoccasionally and that was really
where the first thing happened,which was I realized that I
found it took me about a monthbefore I could even pick up a
guitar, but once I did, Istarted to do it almost
(19:12):
obsessively and that was thefirst thing that it was just a
tool for me to process and tohave a little bit of fun in some
way or another, at a time whereI really couldn't imagine
smiling even.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
It's it, our timelines are very similar.
On on the grief piece, mysignificant other passed away in
August of 2023.
And that was my.
I don't know how I'm like.
I don't know how to movethrough this.
I don't know what this lookslike and I had never experienced
(19:55):
a loss like that and I rememberhearing being given an
explanation that you know grief,it's not like grief gets
smaller, it's that your lifegets bigger around it, not like
grief gets smaller, it's thatyour life gets bigger around it.
(20:16):
So it's almost like if you canimagine grief being fist-sized
and your life continues to getbigger.
At the time that it happens.
Your entire life is that size.
And then, as you grow, as youbegin to smile a little bit, as
you begin to play the guitarright.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
And you begin to live again a bit and experience and
love.
But the grief we experience, Itruly believe, is proportionate
to the love we feel, right?
So I grieved because I loved.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
And you grieved because this person was such a
huge presence in your life.
You talked every day.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, but I also realized very quickly and I saw
this in the first instance withBrian too but everybody grieves
differently.
You know, there are friendsthat I had that loved him every
bit as much, but they didn'tshow their grief outwardly.
You know, they felt it just asdeeply but they weren't talking
(21:26):
about it or they pushed it asidebecause they had other
responsibilities that they hadto meet in that moment and they
were perhaps more capable ofdoing that.
You know, I had the job, that akind of job where I make my own
hours and I do my own.
You know, I'm lucky enough towork remotely, so you know, if
you're grieving, you have plentyof time to do it, and so I
(21:48):
think I was conscious of that.
I've always liked the analogywhere grief, the weight of grief
, never changes.
You just get stronger atcarrying it and you train
yourself in the same way thatyou would train in weightlifting
, right, and I've always felt anaffinity towards that
(22:10):
particular analogy.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
But I, you know, I went and got a tattoo and I did,
you know, I did things thatwere helpful to my healing and
my tribute to him in some levelor another and and it was, uh,
(22:33):
it, it was hard and you, but yourealize, I was also his, uh,
his sister, who I've known sincewe were kids, but not as
closely, I mean, we didn't spenda lot of time with each other.
Uh, after that we becameextremely close and with her
husband and my, you know, mywife, and we became extremely
close and with her husband andmy wife, and we became a friend.
We had this new little pod offriends that were looking at it
(22:57):
kind of the same way and feelingthose same feelings, and we
started going down south to SanClemente, to where they live,
and really actually they wereelsewhere at the time, but now
they're in San Clemente, but youknow, we were, we'd spend time
with them and we would just talkabout him and we we'd have fun
(23:17):
and we, we, we.
It wasn't all grief, but it was, but you could break down if
you needed to, you know, andwhere they could, and it was, it
was really healing.
Um, but I started, you know, Istarted to play guitar and uh,
and then I tried to put a littleband together and uh, and some
(23:38):
weird, really weird, oddcoincidences happened along the
way.
Um, that that I felt I'm notparticularly spiritual or
mystical, but but definitelythings that I went like that's
really weird, but I enjoyed themwhen they happened.
It was something that just mademe feel a little bit better,
(24:01):
and once in a while they stilldo, and it's just I can't
explain it.
It's just stuff that makes youfeel good when it happens.
But the band thing kind ofdissipated, I got bored of
playing in my room and I waskind of going out of my skull
and I was always.
The Big Lebowski is one of myfavorite movies and I always
(24:27):
wanted to be in a bowling league.
But I was traveling for nineyears going back and forth, and
so one day I found this.
I was like I wonder if there'sa bowling league around here.
I'll just, maybe I'll explorethat idea.
And the first thing I saw wasthis Tarzana, the Corbin Bowl.
There they had the bigLabruskis and it was just a beer
(24:48):
league.
That's funny and I'm like, well, I guess I have to do this one.
So I signed up for it and theyput me on a team with.
It was mid season, so there wasjust a team with one other guy
at first and he hadn't bowled in17 years and barely talked.
And it was like this old guythat barely talked to anyone and
(25:09):
I was like what am I doing?
This is I would come out ofthere and I'd start crying.
You know, just like what am Idoing here?
Like this is ridiculous.
And and so that guy broke hisleg somehow, and I'm not
laughing at his broken leg, I'mjust like the weirdness of this
whole thing.
And so I wound up on a secondteam that I knew was temporary,
(25:31):
and that was a bizarreexperience too.
And so I wound up on a secondteam that I knew was temporary,
and that was a bizarreexperience too.
And then, finally, I wound up onthis third team with the nicest
of people, like the funniest,sweetest people, and and I, it
was just, it was just somethingthat I I was like, okay, this is
(25:51):
fun, I can have fun.
This is my one night a weekwhere I know this is going to be
something different.
It's a diversion that I, that Ican get through, and I opened
myself up to that.
And suddenly, and when I did, Irealized this is a source of
this isn't just fun, this isjoyful because it's just a
riotous league, like if youleave a certain pin, if you
leave the five pin up in thefirst frame, everybody starts
(26:13):
yelling at you and tries to getyou to miss it, and then, if you
miss it, you put five bucks ina hat.
It's just silliness, right.
And it was like all of a suddenI was healing and I still felt
every bit as sad about myfriends as I have, right.
But it was in that period that Irealized, like man, this
(26:40):
wouldn't have happened if Iwasn't in that previous spot and
I would trade anything to havenot been there.
But now I am and this iswonderful, and along that I
glossed over.
But I want to also say that inthe midst of this, prior to him
(27:00):
dying, we were worried about mywife dying.
Thankfully we caught it earlyand thankfully it wasn't too
aggressive and she got throughit okay.
But we were still celebratingher victory when all of this
happened, and so we had thiscontrast in our lives at that
(27:21):
time where we were ecstaticabout this success, and then,
you know, so we still in thebackground, though we were
ecstatic about that thing, andit was something really low and
you've had to focus on how toexperience joy again because
(27:58):
you're having these, theseexperiences where you're worried
about Nicole and then you'recelebrating okay, she's, she's,
okay, we're good, like I stillhave you.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
And you've lost another friend.
But you're actively puttingyourself in situations where you
get to be silly, you get toremember what it looks like to
live.
Yeah, Because you're choosing.
You're choosing joy.
(28:34):
You're choosing situationswhere you are doing life.
What have you learned aboutyourself?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Well, I'll start with the change in how I live.
I definitely live with notnecessarily a fear of things
changing, but I know I'mdefinitely aware of the
impermanence factor and itpervades of my thinking.
(29:07):
For sure.
I know that things can changein a heartbeat and we're dealing
with that right now.
One of our closest friends,also in this friend group, is
dealing with a very serioushealth crisis with his
five-year-old.
That just came about and it's aterrible situation and it
happened out of nowheresituation and and it happened
(29:34):
out, you know, out of nowhereand uh, and hopefully he will be
okay, but it, but we don't knowthat yet.
And and so we're.
You know, five days prioreverything was kind of on its on
its track and uh, and so so,yeah, you keep getting reminded
about the impermanence of yoursituation, but it goes in both
directions the happiness thatyou're feeling you might not
(29:58):
feel that way tomorrow, but atthe little victories and the
little joys and not be quite asfocused on the big picture as
much as having a good moment intime and appreciating that for
what it is, which is it's prettydamn important if you can have
(30:28):
a good hour, you know, if you'restill having a good hour.
You can have a good hour, youknow.
You know if you're still havinga good hour, it's a good hour,
you know, and it has value, evenif it's incremental.
And I think that's part of it.
I'm not.
I'm not as happy as I used tobe.
I mean I'm definitely.
I think I don't know if I'llever be happy the way I used to
(30:51):
be again, because I think thathappiness was living in a
fantasy world of luck thatnothing that bad had happened
beforehand, and so you know, Ithink it's just awareness that
this is how the world works andthis.
You know, these things do happen.
And if you look around you, yousee the people that have to
(31:13):
suffer earlier in their livesand they're changed by it too,
and it's and but.
That's that's more accurate.
So I I look back with a littlebit of like you were naive, you
were living in a fantasy world,buddy, because you didn't know
what was coming naive, you wereliving in a fantasy world, buddy
, because you didn't know whatwas coming.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
So is there a fear that exists?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
in you now that wasn't there before.
Is it a that you're worriedthat?
Yeah, I guess I don't know ifI'd call it fear.
I think there's, and it's notreally even pessimism.
I'm just, I just know that thathappiness can't be depended on,
or success even.
You know, we've had some yearsof struggle because of just some
(32:05):
things that were in our control, but a lot of things that
weren't, like the cancer, andlike I had a bunch of injuries,
you know, but there were, andthese things that happened that
disabled you for six months, 10months at a time, and you're not
being your efficient self as a,as an entrepreneur and a
business owner.
You're just not doing the workas much, and so, uh, you have to
(32:26):
just know that those things are, are, might be coming or could
be coming, and and might becoming or could be coming, and,
and, and I it's not pessimism,it's just just awareness and
maybe a little bit of suspicionrather than fear.
But but I I've had a lot of.
(32:47):
You know, like I recruited mywife, she has her own bowling
team now.
Like we have this whole thingnow and it's turned into such an
incredible source of joy andbonding thing and it's been
amazing, and we're not evengreat bowlers.
I tore my shoulder.
(33:08):
I started bowling with my leftarm, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And giving yourself injuries.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, I'm a mess, but I think from a living
standpoint I'm much more aware.
You know Billy Bob Thornton.
I don't know if you ever heardthe quote that he had about his
brother I don't know if I have.
It's magical.
It's such an important quotethat a friend of mine sent me
once and I'm paraphrasing.
(33:37):
But he basically said that atany given moment I'm 50% happy
and 50% sad because his brotherdied early.
Okay, and he goes, but that'swhat my brother meant to me and
if I am sad at that point intime because he's gone, then
(33:57):
that's what he deserves.
And I'll never you know I'llnever be completely happy again,
but that's okay because that'sa tribute.
You know, I'm paraphrasing.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
He did it much more eloquently.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
No, I'm taking it all in, no, I like it, yeah, and I
loved it because it gave, um, itgave power to your grief, it
gave authority to it and, uh,and it gave authority to sadness
in these events, cause I'm sure, and I you know, I don't know
the circumstances of your loss,but I, I'm sure that, um, that
(34:31):
when you feel sad, that it isbecause of the value, and and
when you feel happy, it's not arejection of that value.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
No, absolutely not.
And I I think that that's.
I was having a conversationwith a girlfriend who lost her
son and you know she wentthrough a process with.
You know, will I ever?
She lost him a few years agonow and she has since remarried
(35:02):
and and she said there have beentimes when I will be with my
new husband and I will findmyself laughing.
And then I think, wait, am Iallowed to laugh?
Am I, am I allowed toexperience joy?
And I finally reached a pointwhere I have given myself that
permission because he would wantme to be laughing and
(35:26):
experiencing joy and enjoyinglife.
And it doesn't mean that Idon't miss him and it doesn't
mean that there isn't thisgigantic hole in my heart that
represents his loss.
But I'm not sitting at home inthe dark for the rest of my
existence.
I am choosing to live.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
And I think about it that way because it did take me
some time to walk out the frontdoor again to get up off the
floor.
To you know, I heard myselfmake sounds that I Um, you know
I heard myself make sounds that.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
I at times.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
I wasn't sure where it was coming from until I
realized that it was me.
Um, but there was a.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
There was a lot for me to work with and through and
um but I, I'm, yeah, I found itkind of ironic that, looking
back, that Nate um, the secondone, uh, he, he was suffering
(36:32):
from grief in his own right.
His brother had a horribledisease Huntington's disease and
chose to chose to end his ownlife rather than decline that
way, and and Nate was there whenhe did it and and he and he was
(36:54):
suffering greatly, but he wasalso able to have fun and to see
past that too.
I mean, he was able to do theother things and be a good
parent and but he wasunquestionably suffering, but he
was also able to do that.
And so I have, many times sincethen, looked back and used him
(37:16):
as a model for my own grief ofhim.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
And it's just, you know, it's weird how long after
losing his brother did Nate passaway.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
About nine months, yeah, and it feels a little bit
like broken heart syndrome.
Oh, it was, and I think in part,and you know he was also
unhealthy and you know just inhis habits and not didn't take
care of himself the way heneeded to and should, but that
(37:47):
was part of it too.
I think it was he was.
He dove head first into sorrowat some level, which is terribly
sad for his sister and his mom,who you know, who lost to two
of the kids and two of theiryeah, two of their closest
people in a very short period oftime yeah, in such a short
period of time, and their griefwas profound in that way.
(38:11):
I don't even know how they gotthrough it, but they allowed
through too, and it's still athing.
It's always going to be a thing, but yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I'm curious what all of this life experience, the up
and the down, does with yourwriting, because we haven't
talked about what you do for aliving.
Yeah, we did talk about thepolitical work, right, and one
of the reasons you're not doingthat anymore is because of the
(38:43):
direction it has taken, and somuch of that direction is
negative and hateful and hurtful.
And the work you do now is soheart-centered and loving and
(39:05):
beautiful and compassionate andsoul filled.
So let's talk, explain toeveryone what you do, because
you're the first of a kind interms of of this type of work
that I've ever heard of.
So explain to everybody whatyou do for work.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
So my my wife, nicole and I started a company in 2021
that helps people write andrehearse their wedding vows,
wedding speeches, ceremonyscripts If you have a friend or
family member that's doing theofficiating, like the internet
ordained, that kind of thingthat are inexperienced, uh so we
, we enter it's all interviewbased.
I do an hour long interview towrite a minute or two of vows.
(39:40):
We get into all of the ins andouts of relationships.
So I'm actually writing a bookright now based on the lessons
I've learned from these uh, fromthese interviews.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
And oh, I love that.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, it's called uh.
Hopefully it will be out inearly, uh early or midwinter,
maybe by Valentine's day, if Ican get myself to together to do
it.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
You'll have to let us know so that I can link to it
in the show notes when you do,but you know I don't use AI,
it's all remote, it's all overthe phone.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Thank you, and it's pure.
It has been so much fun andreally I should have mentioned
it earlier.
It's one of the things that gotme through because I loved
doing it and I think you know ithasn't been easy.
It's, you know, startups take awhile.
(40:31):
We were hampered by otherfactors and monetarily and grief
was a major impediment here.
You know it was certainly amajor impediment.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Well, you're talking about pure emotion, right?
So, how do you channel purelove and devotion and soul when
you are weighed down by hurt?
So it's you know, I mean thattakes work.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, You're listening to people talk about
their favorite people and therehave been difficult moments.
It actually led to me being.
It led to a referral to helpsomebody write their eulogy, and
I've not done a few of them,but but the first one that I did
was a profound experience andwe, you know, I was just it was
(41:29):
a year out from from Nate's lossand I and I really wanted to
help him, put a voice to his,his feelings, and help him
through that moment.
And and it was.
It was amazing and I feltexperienced at that point.
I felt, I felt, like I hadauthority on it and uh and uh.
But yeah, most of the timewe're talking happy stuff and
and I'm very lucky to do it, Ilove doing it.
It's it Not everybody's a greatwriter and even great writers
(41:52):
struggle to edit themselves inthese very emotionally powerful
moments.
And some people have are goodwriters but they are afraid to
get up there and deliver it.
And I know you've been in media.
It takes, takes some practiceand I'm you're, you've been in
media.
It takes, takes some practice.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
And I'm a word nerd.
I love, I love words and I lovewordsmithing, and I've for
years had friends come to me toput words together for difficult
moments, whether it's what tosay at a eulogy or um.
I've never written anyone'svows but um, but I.
I have written for for somedifficult times um, both joyful
(42:29):
and and and challenging, but um,but I.
I love emotion, I love and Iand I love words.
So I I was fascinated, from themoment we first connected, that
this is what you do, and I canimagine that your life
experience over the last six,eight years has truly informed
(42:53):
the work you're doing.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
That and, having done this thing in a different way
for politicians, you know, likethe interviews and the and the
media training that you that youdo I'm not a comfortable
extemporaneous speaker unless Iknow what I'm talking about for
certain.
You know, I know where I'mgoing with it.
I stutter, I do all of the umsand you knows and dudes and all
(43:19):
that stuff, but I can easilypractice myself out of it and I
know the technique to do it, andso it was fun to apply it to
this to give people thatconfidence that sometimes they
lack.
A lot of people don't do theirown personal vows because they
think they're going to beoutmatched by their partner.
(43:39):
In fact, we didn't do our ownvows oh really In fact when we
got married because Nicole knewthat I was a professional fact.
We didn't do our own vows backwhen we got married because
Nicole knew that I was aprofessional writer and she
didn't, even though she's a finewriter, she just didn't feel
like she could do it justice,and that's the feeling that we
want to help out with in thisinstance.
But yeah, having something likethat too in your life've.
(44:02):
One thing that came out of thatis that I'm willing to live
down to whatever lifestyle thatallows me to do this work Like.
To me, this is my last job,because I can't imagine not
doing it now and I think as Iget older and all of these
things have happened, havingthat feeling is so much more
(44:26):
important to me than having someother form of success.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I understand that.
That's where I am with thisright now.
This is finally being able tohave the honor of talking to
people about their, theirstories.
I think stories are so powerful, right, and my goal is that,
(44:54):
when people are listening, thatthey have a moment where they
say, oh, me too, and within that, me too they think, oh, I know
someone who needs to hear this,I know someone who's going
through something just like this, or who has gone through it, or
who needs this as a resource,or will feel better if they know
(45:18):
they're not alone, because Ithink that so many experiences
we go through are so isolatingand we have no idea that there
are other people going throughall of these things.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
All of these emotions , all of these challenges, and
there is so much power infeeling seen.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
Including the people that are dying.
I recently did an end of lifeinterview for my cousin, who was
the one that helped me go tothe doctor back in.
You know, however, many yearsago and unfortunately, you know,
he succumbed to his cancer.
I'm sorry, but he and I had a.
(46:08):
I wanted to help him have arecord for his kids later on, so
we did five hours of end oflife interview.
That's amazing and it wasaffecting.
It was affecting, and I thinkfor me it was.
(46:30):
It was helpful too, because I Iappreciated his perspective.
It didn't.
It helped me with the grief oflosing him, which, but you know,
he didn't want to go, you know.
But but at the same time he knewhe was pretty aware of where he
was and I think that awarenesshe became.
(46:53):
He did the same thing inreverse.
He found the things that wereimportant now and that moment.
And it wasn't his to do listsand it wasn't, you know, it
wasn't the noise in thebackground, it was, it was his
family and and and having funwith them now, as much fun as
they could possibly have in thatsituation.
And and then you find you.
(47:14):
You find, as the aggrievedlater on, that you're you.
You're doing the same thing.
You're trying to trying to getback to that, you know.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
I have an interview like that coming up.
I have a girlfriend who reachedout to me when I first
mentioned that I was doing thepodcast and she was given a
difficult diagnosis and she saidshe wanted to come on and talk.
So I'm very privileged in thatI get to sit here and help
(47:43):
people to share what theirversion of hope looks like.
So what is?
How do you define hope?
Speaker 1 (47:58):
You know it's funny.
I think I define it.
I think I define it almost likewedding vows.
You know it's a statement ofintent.
You know it's hope isn't.
Sometimes all you can do ishope.
Sometimes hope is a part ofyour manifestation technique.
(48:29):
But to me it's like I want thisto happen and I may not have
power over it Maybe I do, but Idefinitely am going to think
about that piece of it Becauseif I don't, I'm thinking about
the worst thing that can happen.
And I have a Folgers can up onmy shelf which, if any big
Lebowski fans remember that partin the movie, you know there's
(48:53):
ashes in it and I've actuallyhave it in my will to put it in
there and kind of reenact thescene which I found so much
laughter in.
And I really hope my familywill do that because I want
there to be some silliness.
You know I want people to findthat joy that we had.
(49:14):
However they can find it, and Ialso make a try and make a joke
out of anything I can.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Heads the humorist.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah, you know it hasn't shown up much here
because of the topic, but I'lltell you it's.
You know, humor is a big partof getting through it too.
You just have to find reasonsto make yourself laugh.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
I completely agree.
Where can people find you toconnect with you?
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Vows and sorry, can't talk to you Vowsandspeechescom.
That'sV-O-W-S-A-N-D-S-P-E-E-C-H-E-Scom
, and you'll be in the shownotes, I'm sure, but that's the
best way to reach out to me andjust go to the contact and
there's my email and phonenumbers there and I'm happy to
talk to you.
Anyone that needs help withanything like that.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
That's amazing.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with me today.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
It's been wonderful to have you.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Is there anything that you'd like to share that I
didn't ask you?
Speaker 1 (50:09):
No, I think I think we covered it, but I, you know,
for anybody that's out, I justwant to say that, for anybody
that's out there that isgrieving or looking for hope,
you know, I just hope you findit and that you know, leave
yourself open as much as you can.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
I love that.
Brian, thank you so much forspending time with me.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
I appreciate it and, friends, thank you for spending
time with Brian and I today.
This has been Hope Comes toVisit, and I so hope that we
have met you where you are todayand that you have found a
little bit of hope and a littlebit of light, and that you will
take the time to share this withsomeone you know and love, who
you think needs to hear it, andbetween now and the next episode
(50:51):
, I do hope you will take verygood care of you.
Thanks for being with us.
Naturally, it's important tothank the people who support and
sponsor the podcast.
This episode is supported byChris Dulley, a trusted criminal
defense attorney and friend ofmine here in St Louis, who
believes in second chances andsolid representation.
(51:12):
Whether you're facing a DWI,felony or traffic issue, chris
handles your case personallywith clarity, compassion and
over 15 years of experience.
When things feel uncertain, ithelps to have someone steady in
your corner.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP or you can visit
dullylawfirmcom to schedule yourfree consultation.
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