September 15, 2025 • 40 mins
What happens when a woman’s pain is dismissed at one of the most vulnerable moments of her life?
For Jenny Hoffman, it nearly cost her everything. Just hours after giving birth to her daughter, Jenny hemorrhaged internally while medical staff brushed off her repeated cries for help. “I kept saying it really hurt,” she remembers, as Motrin was offered while she was losing over two liters of blood.
In this raw and powerful conversation, Jenny and I uncover the haunting parallels in our own birth experiences — moments of crisis where women’s instincts were ignored until it was almost too late. Our dialogue reveals a troubling truth about maternal healthcare: women’s voices are often minimized, even in life-threatening situations.
But Jenny’s story doesn’t stop with survival. Nine years later, she founded Story of Strength, a groundbreaking organization that gathers women’s stories of birth complications and transforms them into actionable data for systemic change. With her background in bioengineering, Jenny bridges the deeply personal with the scientific, creating resources that can influence healthcare policy, inspire innovation, and ultimately save lives.
This episode explores:
- Why postpartum hemorrhage remains the leading — and preventable — cause of maternal mortality worldwide
- The lifelong psychological impact of birth trauma
- How storytelling can be both healing for individuals and revolutionary for healthcare systems
Jenny’s voice is a reminder that trusting our instincts and speaking our truth isn’t just survival — it’s advocacy. And every story told creates space for another woman to be heard.
🎧 Listen now to hear how Jenny turned her trauma into a movement — and how your story might change someone else’s outcome.
Connect with Jenny on Story of Strength, where you can also share your postpartum birth experiences and support the work she is doing.
Sign up for her Newsletter to get updates about her upcoming book release in October.
You can also find her on Social:
LinkedIn - Jenny Hoffman
Facebook - Story of Strength
Thank you for listening to Hope Comes to Visit. If this conversation helps, follow the show, share it with someone who needs hope today, and leave a review - it helps others find their way to these conversations.
New episodes drop every Monday, so you can begin your week with a little light and a lot of hope.
For more stories, reflections, and ways to connect, visit www.DanielleElliottSmith.com or follow along on Instagram @daniellesmithtv and @HopeComestoVisit
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jenny Hoffman (00:00):
I kept saying it really hurt.
Well, this went on for twohours and at the end of two,
hours.
No one is paying attention toyou saying I am in excruciating
pain.
Well, you know, people wouldcome over.
There were multiple nurses inthe room and, like I said, they
were, all you know, absorbedwith this big baby.
And occasionally a nurse wouldcome over when I would say
(00:21):
something and they'd just belike, in fact, I was offered a
Motrin, so here have a Motrin.
And I was like, yeah, Motrin isnot this is not the level of
pain I'm talking about
Danielle Smith (00:39):
When we speak the truth of what we lived we
offer others a way through.
This is Hope Comes to Visit,and I'm Danielle Elliott Smith.
Today's guest is Jenny Hoffman.
She's the founder of Story ofStrength, inspiring a movement
to normalize conversations andadvocate for better maternal
health, especially aroundpreventable complications.
(01:30):
Jenny, thank you so much forbeing here.
I am so looking forward tohaving this conversation.
When I first heard about thework you are doing, I was
mesmerized by the overlap in mypersonal experience, and I'm in
(01:50):
love with the work you are doingbecause I think it is so
important that we share thesestories.
So thank you for being here.
Jenny Hoffman (01:58):
So excited to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Danielle Smith (02:02):
Oh.
So let's dive right in.
Let's talk about the websitethat you have and the work that
you are doing and how it came tobe.
So let's talk about you.
So let's share your experience.
What drove you to start thiswork?
Jenny Hoffman (02:23):
So what drove me to start my work was actually my
own personal experience.
So warning in case this istriggering for anyone I
experienced postpartumcomplications.
So when I was having my firstdaughter, I had a low risk
pregnancy, no risk factors atall, and my labor was long, but
everything went smoothly.
(02:43):
And then, after I delivered, Istarted experiencing pain worse
than I had ever felt when I waslaboring and I was trying to
describe it.
I can give you my background aswell, but my job was working
with some of the world's leadingphysicians to develop new
medical devices, so I wascomfortable talking to
(03:04):
physicians and being inoperating rooms and I was trying
to describe that my pain was 10times worse than I had ever
experienced and 10 times worsethan in labor.
And you know the reaction I gotwas like, yes, you just had a
baby and you're a new mom, so ifthere's pain and I was like, no
(03:24):
, this is 10 times worse, and Ikept trying to just surface this
pain.
Danielle Smith (03:31):
And what point were you having this?
Was this right after birth, orlike you were?
Jenny Hoffman (03:36):
This was right after birth, probably like just
a few minutes had passed.
I saw the baby.
She was big 8 pounds, 15 ounces, and we were at high altitude.
So all the nurses were aroundher and my husband was around
her like so excited by such abig baby.
Okay, within a few minutes, youknow, they come to try to press
on your, your uterus, to get itto start decreasing in size.
(03:59):
And I couldn't even stand that.
I couldn't stand any pressureon my belly at all, and that's
when you know I kept saying itreally hurt.
Well, this went on for two hoursand at the end of two hours I
was paying attention to yousaying I am in excruciating pain
, but you know, people wouldcome over.
There were multiple nurses inthe room and, like I said, they
(04:22):
were, all you know, absorbedwith this big baby.
And occasionally a nurse wouldcome over when I would say
something and they'd just belike, in fact, I was offered a
Motrin, so here have a Motrin.
And I was like, yeah, Motrin isnot.
Danielle Smith (04:33):
This is not the level of pain I'm talking about.
I'm laughing I not laughingbecause it's funny, but laughing
at the audacity of having aMortin and you just had a baby.
And it's like here's a Tylenolfor for your, your broken femur,
right, I mean?
Jenny Hoffman (04:53):
It's exactly like that.
That's such a good way todescribe it.
So after two hours I let out ascream.
I felt like it was the end ofwhat I could do.
It was like my final reach, andit sounded.
People described it in the roomas like an animal being mauled
to death and I felt like Iwasn't going to be there to take
(05:19):
care of my daughter, and so Iasked my husband for my phone so
I could call my mom.
My mom was not in the deliveryroom with me and I called her
and I couldn't even speak.
I just had this screen.
And she asked him is that Jenny?
And he was like yes, it is.
And she was like I'll be thereas soon as I can.
Luckily, she had alreadytraveled to my house, which is
(05:40):
17 minutes from the hospital.
So I knew this was four in themorning now, so I knew I had to
make it 17 minutes and I couldsee the clock on the wall and I
am now just trying to make it 17minutes for my mom to get there
.
And I knew when she came in theroom I can tell you about my
mom as well, but she is apowerhouse and so she came in
(06:01):
and she was like you got thedoctor Now, you need to go get
help now, like this means shejust made it happen.
So the doctor came back.
She had gone home, she cameback and as soon as she came in
they realized that I had beenbleeding the whole time, but I
had been bleeding internally, soit was all pulling inside, and
that's why there hadn't beenexternal signs or external
(06:23):
visible signs, and so it becamean emergency situation right
away.
So they were doing theprocedure.
We couldn't get into anoperating room, we couldn't get
any anesthesia then, and theywere just pulling out blood and
clots and trying to get thebleeding to stop, and I just
remember that being the mostpainful experience I've ever had
(06:47):
.
Danielle Smith (06:48):
See what's extraordinary to me is so I
shared with you a little bit ofmy experience before we went on
air, and what you're describingis the is exactly exactly what
happened to me, but it's, it'sso.
(07:09):
I hemorrhaged right after, butthey spent a lot of time trying
to stop my bleeding.
Like I lost 60% of blood in thein in delivery and it took her
a very long time to stop thebleeding.
I mean, it was I at the pointand I couldn't feel anything at
that moment because I'd had theepidural and they'd actually had
(07:30):
to turn my epidural off becausethey recognized it was working
quote unquote too well.
I had zero feeling whatsoever.
My hip almost fell out ofsocket when they went to check
me because it had gone too well.
They punctured my spinal fluidarea and so they turned
everything off.
But I couldn't feel anythingand I was watching her and I'm
(07:52):
like is your entire fist?
And she said honey, I amworking so hard on you right now
because she was massaging myuterus to get the bleeding to
stop and I wasn't even allowedto touch Delaney.
Initially, one of the internnurses tried to bring Delaney
over to me, my daughter, and thedoctor looked at her and said,
not right now, like throughclenched teeth, because they
(08:13):
didn't want her anywhere near me, because she was trying to get
the bleeding stopped.
Well, eventually they did.
They packed me and then Iexperienced that same level of
pain and I kept saying there issomething wrong and they kept
saying, no, it's fine, it's justbecause you're packed because
of the bleeding, because of thehemorrhaging.
But I was bleeding internallythe same way, and so when you,
(08:37):
when we had first communicatedabout you hemorrhaging I was
imagining your hemorrhaging wasimmediately after the same way
mine was, and that they stoppedthe bleeding I didn't equate it
to the internal.
Jenny Hoffman (08:55):
That's the pain that I experienced, I mean I
have chills, because that wasexactly the internal piece that
isn't visible, that no onebelieves.
I can't believe how similar ourstories are as well, but
actually I guess I learned thatas I started sharing my story.
(09:17):
I wish we were the only two whohad this story, and yet I found
we're not.
Danielle Smith (09:22):
That's so to this point.
So this is why I love thatyou're another reason that I
love that you're doing this.
Up until now, I hadn'tencountered anyone else who had
had type chills again.
This piece, this where I had tofight to say no, I swear, no, I
(09:49):
swear, I have a high paintolerance, there is something
wrong.
And my husband kept walking outand saying, no, really there's
something wrong.
And his family came in and Iwas white as a ghost and so they
came in and I couldn't havepeople in and they left.
And his mom later was veryupset that we said no, go ahead
and go home, because she couldtell something was wrong but
didn't know what.
And it was only because Ifinally begged them to check
(10:14):
that one of the nurses could seethat the internal hematoma was
pushing its way out that theyended up calling all the doctors
back in and then I was broughtinto emergency surgery.
It was because the internalbleeding was becoming externally
visible that they were able tosee that there was a issue.
Jenny Hoffman (10:33):
Isn't that so symbolic when we're experiencing
internal complications and thenhave to advocate for ourselves
so that others can see it?
And when I wasn't strong enough, then I had to call my mom, who
can be my strength for me, andyou know my story continued that
, actually.
So we stopped the bleedingenough, but I continued to bleed
(10:56):
and had to go back for a DNC at10 weeks postpartum there was
no placenta remaining, eventhough we had done the bedside
procedure.
So it continued for quite sometime.
So in the hospital the firsttime I lost 2.2 liters of blood.
I was given three units ofblood then to help me and I just
(11:19):
still felt so weak, so muchpain Again, that feeling of I
knew something was wrong.
Felt so weak, so much painagain, that feeling of I knew
something was wrong.
So even at my six weekpostpartum visit, I had to
advocate for myself and I had to, you know, really demand an
ultrasound.
And as soon as the ultrasoundturned on, I knew, you know, you
could see it on thetechnician's face that there was
something wrong and I knew thatI was going to have to go to
(11:42):
surgery again.
Danielle Smith (11:45):
So what would you say to people about
advocating for themselves?
Because, it's interesting, myex, my husband at the time, now
my ex-husband still a very goodfriend of mine he said to me the
next day because he has always,he had always operated as
(12:05):
doctors know best.
Yes, the next day he looked atme and said I will never again
doubt you.
I will never again doubt whenyou say we have to advocate for
ourselves because, because theyended up taking me into
emergency surgery, they did itwhen he had gone downstairs into
the chapel to pray, because hehad just reached up Like I don't
(12:27):
know what else to do, nobody'slistening.
And when he came back, thedoctor was coming out of surgery
and she just walked up to hughim.
He thought I died and shewalked up to hug him because she
was just so relieved that I wasokay, that everything had gone
fine.
But he said to me I'll neveragain doubt you.
Like, if we have to advocatefor ourselves, we have to
(12:49):
advocate for ourselves.
If we know something is wrong,I'm going to trust you, I'm
going to trust myself, I'm goingto trust our kids when they
know something is wrong.
What do you say to people toget them to believe themselves
and how to push.
Jenny Hoffman (13:04):
It's such a good question because I really took
this experience as what do Ilearn about myself and how can I
then help others based on thisexperience, because I don't want
it to be needless suffering.
And one of the things that Ilearned about myself was one
that I'm stronger than I everknew.
And two, that I could live withless fear.
(13:25):
I had been through the neardeath experience.
So all those things that we'reafraid to do, forget that fear,
just try it.
But three is to really listento my gut, because I was right,
I knew something and I've hadthose types of experience
whether it's in a professionallife or a personal experience
where you have a gut feeling andsometimes you don't always
(13:47):
listen to it.
And my learning in this was youknow I never I don't blame a
physician or a particularhospital or anything.
I think this is a challenge ofthe system and as a system, we
need to figure out how toimprove women's health.
Challenge of the system and asa system, we need to figure out
how to improve women's health.
And so to me, it's been how dowe empower women to believe in
(14:09):
yourself and trust your gut,because you know yourself more
than anyone else is going toknow you and you're often right,
you're almost.
You know you're right far morethan you're ever wrong, and
there's far little risk in beingwrong there.
So you might as well advocatefor yourself and trust in
yourself, and that gave me thisstrength and courage.
That is a force.
Danielle Smith (14:31):
That is.
I love that so much because Ithink that we regularly doubt
ourselves right, and thepushback that we get.
If you think about just our twoexperiences, right, you're
offered a Motrin.
They said to me well hon,you're at seizure level for
(14:53):
morphine.
We can't give you any more.
There's enough morphine in yoursystem to knock out a 350 pound
football player.
We can't give you any more.
And I said I don't want anymore because there was something
in me that knew if I went tosleep I wasn't going to be okay.
Had I gone to sleep I wouldn'thave been okay.
I needed to stay awake to keepgetting someone to pay attention
(15:18):
.
And it's crazy, right?
Because if I'd gone to sleep Iwould have died in my sleep,
right, I got chills again andthen you know yourself and my
daughter would have been withouta mother.
Jenny Hoffman (15:34):
Right, it's like this.
This internal clock in you issaying keep fighting.
That's what it was.
Keep fighting.
And so I did.
Danielle Smith (15:47):
And, like you, I don't blame anyone, because
everyone is going based on whatthey know.
I can remember a doctor friendof mine telling me at one point
she was an OB or is an OB, andshe said, before I was pregnant
myself, I was going based onwhat I learned in school, in
(16:08):
books, and then, once I waspregnant, I realized there was a
piece of me that had been lyingto my patients because they
would say they were experiencingX, y, z.
And I would say, oh no, no, no,no, you're not.
And it wasn't until I waspregnant that I thought, oh my
gosh, they actually do feel thisway.
And then I think about all ofthe male doctors over the years
(16:30):
that must have said oh no, youdon't, because they were
treating bladder infections andand menopause and menstrual
cycles and childbirth andthere's no actual experience,
right.
And what you are giving voiceto with the work you're doing is
(16:52):
saying I see you, I hear you,it's valid, keep fighting.
What have you learned throughputting these stories together
and giving voice to theseexperiences.
Jenny Hoffman (17:08):
The first thing that I'd say is you matter, and
that's the broader you as wellas you individually.
You matter and your storymatters, and I learned that
because I started actually justsharing my story with my
coworkers because I wasdiagnosed with PTSD from the
experience, and so I would gettriggered if I felt like I was
(17:28):
not heard, and so I wantedpeople around me to understand
when I might have a reaction andwhy that was, and that was very
vulnerable for me to startsharing.
But when I started sharing mystory, then other women started
opening up and being like oh, Iactually experienced something
similar and I experienced thiscomplication and maybe it was
(17:49):
different, but it was anothercomplication and I realized that
there were so many stories likeours and we have a louder voice
together, a stronger voicetogether, and we have a louder
voice together, a stronger voicetogether.
We can amplify our voicestogether.
So the first thing that Ilearned.
(18:10):
So I then read this articlethat maybe some of you have read
it about the McKinsey HealthInstitute created a blueprint on
the gap in women's health and,amongst many things, it's a
wonderful read, but one of thethings they highlight is data
being a critical gap toimproving women's health, that
we don't have the data to reallyunderstand what is the true
incidence and impact.
(18:30):
Well, my PhD is inbioengineering and I wrote
peer-reviewed journal articlesand have done engineering and
science research before, and soI was like that's a gap we can
address.
If data is the gap, I'll startthere, because if data is what's
required to drive awareness sothat there's then future
(18:51):
investment and innovation, let'sstart getting the data.
And so I started reaching outto others to collect their
stories, and the first thing Isaw in these stories is that
there were a lot of themes thatwere very similar.
Number one the percentage ofpostpartum hemorrhage.
It still is the leading causeof maternal mortality throughout
(19:14):
the world and it's a highly alot of these complications are
preventable or at least don'thave to get as serious as they
often get, like in our stories,and I found that the trauma
people experienced was lingering, like mine was, and that helped
me realize that I was not aloneand I could relate to other
(19:37):
people too, and indestigmatizing telling the story
, it just made such a differencein the recovery for each of us.
Danielle Smith (19:47):
I love that.
So it's storytelling is heartwork for me, right?
That's the genesis of thispodcast, right?
I find that the most powerfulthing that we can, that someone
can hear, is things they alreadyknow.
Basically, it's my story comingout of your mouth, right, it's
(20:15):
being able to hear you tell astory and I get to hear and
think, wow, I'm not alone.
Right, I thought this was aDanielle thing and it's a
universal thing.
It's something that someoneelse is experiencing and
therefore, I'm not alone.
(20:36):
And that is my hope with thepodcast.
Right, that each episode weshare each, each person I get
the privilege of interviewing issharing an experience that
meets someone somewhere wherethey are and they can turn
around and say, oh my gosh, Iknow someone else who needs to
(20:57):
hear this.
I know someone who had thisexperience.
Or there will be someone whohas an experience similar to
yours and they had no idea thatit was causing them PTSD, and
they'll hear that and a lightbulb will go off and they'll
think, wow, okay, no wonder Ifeel that way, no wonder I feel
(21:22):
really triggered when Irecognize that people aren't
hearing me.
It goes back to that experiencein the hospital when I had my
daughter six years ago, 10 yearsago, 14 years ago, right that
these stories are aha momentsfor people that make them feel
seen and heard in a way thatthey weren't feeling before,
(21:46):
which is very similar to thereason that you're doing the
work you're doing right, andthat's the power of storytelling
.
It's the power of beingvulnerable and collecting the
stories and sharing them right.
So when you started to collectthis data, what are you doing
(22:09):
with the data?
Who are you passing it on to tohopefully create the change
that you know needs to becreated?
First, I want to say that theway you described hoping that
somebody hears that they have asimilar story and they are not
alone that's the whole reason Ido this work.
(22:29):
It's been nine years since mydaughter was born, so it's taken
me those years to get to aplace where I could share this
story without being as triggered.
And when I started analyzingthe stories, I actually called
my coworker at one point and waslike I don't think I can do it.
I don't think I can do itbecause it's so hard to relive
(22:50):
these experiences.
And so she was like you know,take a moment, don't try to get
through too much in a day andyou can do this.
And I realized I really could.
I could, I had that strengthagain and I could learn to live
with empathy and my heart on mysleeve as well.
And well, you very much can and very clearly
(23:12):
do and I think what you're doingis powerful and, like I said,
being able to, to share thatstory.
And even when you said, like Ifind that, as I'm interviewing
people and my hope that thatthis meets someone else, I
recognize that each time I'mtalking to somebody I've met,
(23:35):
I'm learning something.
I'm feeling a bit of what Ihope someone else will feel.
And when you said that the PTSDpiece, like the being triggered
when you're not hurt, I thought, oh, that's where it comes from
, you know, and that's, thoseare the, those are the pieces
that I hope other people feelRight and and that it's, it's
(23:57):
validating for me all over again, each and every time, and I and
I recognize that every time Iget those little moments of
chills, I okay, there it is,like, this is, this is what I'm
doing, this for I want people tofeel seen and heard.
And it's because people likeyou are doing that work that
(24:19):
they are out there beingvulnerable and saying I was
terrified and this was hard andI didn't think I could do the
hard things.
And guess what?
I can't.
Jenny Hoffman (24:34):
Exactly so.
With the data.
We have about 200 stories and Iwas actually my call just
before this was working with adata scientist on analyzing the
data that we have.
We've just done the firstanalysis of the first 100
stories.
So we've looked at things likewhat are some of those early
signs that women get?
What could we help thehealthcare system be aware of
(24:57):
and maybe pay more attention tosystem, be aware of and maybe
pay more attention to what weresome of the long-term effects
that then could drive futureinnovation?
So the stories I got were notonly postpartum hemorrhage.
The other leading cause ofmaternal morbidity and mortality
is also preeclampsia.
So there are certainly plentyof stories about preeclampsia as
(25:18):
well.
So first I analyzed all thestories together and found some
common themes.
Secondly, I then did a subanalysis on each of those
patient populations and we'refinding fascinating things.
So, for example, trauma is acommon experience across both.
I also would say change inbirth plan.
(25:41):
You know so much.
So many of us are taught tocreate a birth plan, and then
people said I had to throw mybirth plan out the window and I
had to do that as well, and soknowing that ahead of time is
really useful if that mighthappen.
But the third piece then, Ithink, is really realizing that
(26:01):
the trauma actually was a largerpercentage of the postpartum
hemorrhage stories than theoverall population and was
actually a much smallerpercentage for the preeclampsia
patient.
Well, that gives us someinteresting information, because
that actually tells us thatdiagnosing some of these
postpartum hemorrhage casesright away is what's critical
when seconds matter.
(26:22):
So knowing that you shouldadvocate for yourself right when
you get that feeling ofsomething being wrong is
actually critical and don't stop, don't give up.
And then a way we can bring intechnology and education, so
education for all of thehealthcare providers in the room
to know that when a patientsays they're feeling something's
(26:44):
wrong, even if it's maybe it'sa headache or maybe it's pain,
and pain and headache might bethings that you experience
naturally in childbirth, butalso they might be signaling a
bigger problem.
So it's worth investigatingthose right away.
Danielle Smith (27:12):
Those are some of the insights we're getting
the heart centered side of ofall of this storytelling.
You are using your brillianceIn addition to the storytelling.
You have decided that you wouldlike to really affect change on
(27:34):
top of making people feel seenand heard, and I love that so
much.
There is this piece of you thatsaid I want people to feel seen
and heard, but I also think thesystem is broken and I don't
like how I felt and how I wastreated and what went wrong, and
(28:05):
I know that it's happening toother people.
How can I change that?
And you're finding a way andthat is extraordinary.
Jenny Hoffman (28:19):
That's it Exactly .
Whatever voice I have, whatevervoices I can amplify, let's use
those to make the future better, because most of these
experiences could be preventedfor future women, and no one
should have to go through anexperience like the two of us
have and many others have aswell, and so my goal is to use
this data to influencepolicymakers.
(28:40):
There's groups like WomenHealth Advocates that I'm part
of, and there's also innovationthat could be inspired too, so I
work a lot in early stagemedical devices.
So, venture capitalists, I wantyou to know that there's a real
mean here.
There's a real opportunity Putinvestment into these spaces.
Danielle Smith (29:01):
So OK, on that end.
How can the collective wesupport what you're doing?
Do you need additional stories?
Are you eventually looking forventure capital?
Are you looking for venturecapital now?
Are you?
what do you need?
Jenny Hoffman (29:24):
Thank you for asking that.
First of all, I am alwayslooking for new stories because
I believe that the more data wehave, the more powerful it is
and we get more insights.
So, always looking for morestories, you can go to the
website wwwstoryofstrengthcomand you can put your story in
there.
Before you go to the second,are you looking for any
experiences?
Any stories regarding maternalhealth, maternal experiences,
(29:49):
maternal complications?
that's right.
Any any maternal experiencethat you had that didn't go as
you expected and plan PerfectOkay, and you can insert your
story online and we'll make surethat it's included and analyzed
and used to make a difference.
Danielle Smith (30:06):
Amazing, okay.
Jenny Hoffman (30:06):
My goal is that that not only sharing that story
is part of your healing journey, but also then part of a system
healing journey too.
Danielle Smith (30:15):
Okay, and is there any level of anonymity to
it, if somebody wanted that, oris there?
Where does it go?
Where does the story go?
Jenny Hoffman (30:26):
Thank you for asking that.
I've committed that everythingis anonymous, so everything is
de-identified information.
Your name is never included.
We analyze the information, butthere is no identifying
information at all in that.
Danielle Smith (30:43):
Is there anything that would allow some
type of support?
If somebody is looking for somelevel of recognition, community
support, so healing?
Jenny Hoffman (30:56):
That's a great question.
We have social media channelsFacebook, instagram, linkedin,
story of Strength and there arecommunities to find there.
There's also resources thatwe've put.
In fact, there was a post lastweek where we put resources.
If you're looking for specific,there's a postpartum hemorrhage
(31:17):
support group on Facebook and Ifound it incredibly useful.
So there are definitely some ofthose communities if you're
looking for them, and we've putsome of those resources up as
well
Danielle Smith (31:27):
We'll be sharing all of those in the show notes
as well.
Okay, so now to the nextquestion.
What else can we do to supportyou moving forward with the data
collection that could affectchange?
Jenny Hoffman (31:38):
The next thing I am looking for is investment,
and that investment will fuelgathering even more stories as
well as designing a future study.
So collecting the stories isqualitative data, and that's an
amazing step we've taken.
There's opportunity in thefuture to move toward interviews
as well, so that we can probedeeper on some of these specific
(32:01):
experiences too.
So this is just the beginning.
Danielle Smith (32:05):
I am so excited for you.
I'm excited that you are usingall of the tools at your
disposal to affect this level ofchange.
I think that you are uniquelyequipped to do this level of
(32:27):
work.
How would somebody reach out toyou if they were interested in
getting involved on that level?
Jenny Hoffman (32:35):
You can contact me via the website as well, and
I am sure that via this podcast,there's ways to get in touch
too.
So yeah, reach out.
I'd love to be in touch withothers to experience stories
that are relevant and also wantto be part of the movement,
(32:57):
because really, this isinspiring a movement.
Danielle Smith (33:01):
Jenny, how do you define hope.
Jenny Hoffman (33:05):
What a great question.
A belief that there's somethinggreater coming.
Danielle Smith (33:12):
I like that.
I like that A lot of times whenI ask people that question that
the answer is very broad andflowy and you're very succinct.
What have you learned aboutyourself in this process, in
creating Story of Strength?
Jenny Hoffman (33:44):
The first is that I learned I could.
It was an idea and, as you said, I had a unique approach that
it's not just collecting thestories but also using my
education and experience toanalyze them.
And I did and I could, and Iguess that goes back to the
confidence case that we talkedabout.
I did and I could, and I guessthat goes back to the confidence
piece that we talked aboutbelieving in myself, and I hope
(34:05):
everyone listening can take thatand believe in themselves too.
And I mentioned.
The second was that I'mstronger than I ever knew and
that carries me through all thetime, because it might sound
like I then have confidence andno fear, and the reality is
that's just not the case.
I was telling my husbandyesterday about how I'm writing
up a blog post on impostersyndrome, because imposter
syndrome struck me again andit'll keep striking.
(34:27):
So I think that I have to keeprelearning that I'm stronger
than I know and keep rememberingthe confidence that I've
learned stronger than I know,and keep remembering the
confidence that I've learned.
Danielle Smith (34:39):
I feel like you and I are the same person.
What does your daughter thinkabout this work you are doing
and this work that wasultimately inspired by her birth
experience?
Jenny Hoffman (34:51):
First.
My daughters are seven and nine, so I do want to inspire hope
as well by saying that I did goon to have a second pregnancy
and I made sure that for thesecond pregnancy everyone knew
my history and we were preparedshould any complications arise.
They did not arise in the sameway.
The only problem I had was mysecond child was sunny side up
(35:12):
and so that was a little bitharder to push, but other than
that, all smooth.
So it is possible.
I get that question a lot.
Is it possible to have another?
I went to a different physician.
I went to a high-risk hospital.
I made sure all the expertswere ready and, yes, it's
possible.
So my children know that mommy'svery passionate about my work.
(35:34):
I really like to support othersand they'll even sometimes I'm
at my home office right now.
They'll even sometimes come inthe background and see what I'm
doing, and I think they're stilllearning exactly especially my
older daughter, evelyn what thatmeans around the unique
circumstances of her birth.
I don't think she fullyunderstands that yet, the
movement that she's inspired,and I hope she continues to
(35:57):
understand that as she grows up.
Right now I think she knowsthat mommy connects with lots of
people and likes to make adifference.
And that comes even when we'reat the dinner table and all
talking about what we've donethat day, and I hope she'll live
with that passion in her lifeas well.
Danielle Smith (36:15):
I love that.
You know it's funny.
I was asked the same questionbecause I also went on to have a
second.
But I came out of surgery andas I was waking up from surgery,
my husband was on the phonewith my best friend going.
She's a trooper and, yeah, youknow, she doesn't want to have a
second.
We don't have to have a secondlike that was.
That was enough, and I didn'tgo on to have a second.
(36:35):
I did use the same doctor andshe, uh she said to me we're
going to induce you so that Ican be 100% in control of
everything and so that I can beprepared.
Um, she didn't say to me at thetime.
I think I mentioned to you.
Had I known you were a red,like a real redhead, I might've
expected it, because redheadstend to bleed and have
(36:58):
additional complications.
Um, but I legitimately mydelivery with my son was so easy
.
I pushed one time and she mademe laugh and he came out and she
just put him right on mystomach.
So we joke about how he waslaughed into the world.
So I, after I had him, Ithought well, this is why people
(37:20):
have multiple children, becauseif this is how it is for other
people, then this is why had Ihad him first then.
But yeah, I mean it's.
There are, thank goodness, manynon-complicated births, and I'm
really grateful for the workyou do that shares the stories
(37:45):
and collects the data for theones that are not, so that we
can, as a society, do the workto bring us even further down
the road of creating an evensafer maternal health
environment.
So is there anything I did notask you that you would like to
(38:05):
share with everyone?
Jenny Hoffman (38:06):
The last thing I want to share is I also realized
that obviously I have a passionfor women's health and
improving women's healthoutcomes, but I realized that
these stories didn't have to bespecific to women's health, that
they could.
Realized that these storiesdidn't have to be specific to
women's health, that they couldactually be any challenge that
people went through and foundtheir inner strength and their
authenticity, and so I actuallywrote up this experience and the
(38:30):
method I have of openleadership, using curiosity,
empathy and connection, andwrote that into a book and it'll
be coming out this October.
So the book is called Open Up,so check that out in October.
Danielle Smith (38:43):
Oh, I love that.
Well, what I would love for youto do is make sure that you
share that with me so that I canupdate show notes, so that, as
people continue to listen toepisodes of the podcast, that
that will be in show notes and Iwould be happy to share that
when it comes out too.
So, congratulations on the book.
That is very exciting.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for beinghere and for sharing your light
(39:06):
and your experience and yourstory of strength.
Jenny Hoffman (39:10):
I really appreciate it and I hope
everyone knows that they're notalone and your story matters.
Danielle Smith (39:16):
Thank you so much for being here, jenny.
Jenny Hoffman (39:17):
I really appreciate it, and I hope
everyone knows that they're notalone and your story matters.
Danielle Smith (39:18):
Thank you so much for being here, Jenny.
Jenny Hoffman (39:19):
I really appreciate it.
nd thank you, friends, forspending this time with us, for
allowing us to bring some hopeto visit for you.
If you have found this episodeinspiring and we have met you
where you are I hope that youwill turn around and share it
with the people that you knowwould love, and that you will
turn around and share it withthe people that you know and
love, and that you will comeback and join us again on future
(39:40):
episodes.
Between now and then, do takecare of yourself, and thank you
for being here with us.
Advertisement - Naturally, it'simportant to thank the people
who support and sponsor thepodcast.
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I kept saying it really hurt.
Well, this went on for twohours and at the end of two,
hours.
No one is paying attention toyou saying I am in excruciating
pain.
Well, you know, people wouldcome over.
There were multiple nurses inthe room and, like I said, they
were, all you know, absorbedwith this big baby.
And occasionally a nurse wouldcome over when I would say
(00:21):
something and they'd just belike, in fact, I was offered a
Motrin, so here have a Motrin.
And I was like, yeah, Motrin isnot this is not the level of
pain I'm talking about
Danielle Smith (00:39):
When we speak the truth of what we lived we
offer others a way through.
This is Hope Comes to Visit,and I'm Danielle Elliott Smith.
Today's guest is Jenny Hoffman.
She's the founder of Story ofStrength, inspiring a movement
to normalize conversations andadvocate for better maternal
health, especially aroundpreventable complications.
(01:30):
Jenny, thank you so much forbeing here.
I am so looking forward tohaving this conversation.
When I first heard about thework you are doing, I was
mesmerized by the overlap in mypersonal experience, and I'm in
(01:50):
love with the work you are doingbecause I think it is so
important that we share thesestories.
So thank you for being here.
Jenny Hoffman (01:58):
So excited to be here.
Thank you so much for having me.
Danielle Smith (02:02):
Oh.
So let's dive right in.
Let's talk about the websitethat you have and the work that
you are doing and how it came tobe.
So let's talk about you.
So let's share your experience.
What drove you to start thiswork?
Jenny Hoffman (02:23):
So what drove me to start my work was actually my
own personal experience.
So warning in case this istriggering for anyone I
experienced postpartumcomplications.
So when I was having my firstdaughter, I had a low risk
pregnancy, no risk factors atall, and my labor was long, but
everything went smoothly.
(02:43):
And then, after I delivered, Istarted experiencing pain worse
than I had ever felt when I waslaboring and I was trying to
describe it.
I can give you my background aswell, but my job was working
with some of the world's leadingphysicians to develop new
medical devices, so I wascomfortable talking to
(03:04):
physicians and being inoperating rooms and I was trying
to describe that my pain was 10times worse than I had ever
experienced and 10 times worsethan in labor.
And you know the reaction I gotwas like, yes, you just had a
baby and you're a new mom, so ifthere's pain and I was like, no
(03:24):
, this is 10 times worse, and Ikept trying to just surface this
pain.
Danielle Smith (03:31):
And what point were you having this?
Was this right after birth, orlike you were?
Jenny Hoffman (03:36):
This was right after birth, probably like just
a few minutes had passed.
I saw the baby.
She was big 8 pounds, 15 ounces, and we were at high altitude.
So all the nurses were aroundher and my husband was around
her like so excited by such abig baby.
Okay, within a few minutes, youknow, they come to try to press
on your, your uterus, to get itto start decreasing in size.
(03:59):
And I couldn't even stand that.
I couldn't stand any pressureon my belly at all, and that's
when you know I kept saying itreally hurt.
Well, this went on for two hoursand at the end of two hours I
was paying attention to yousaying I am in excruciating pain
, but you know, people wouldcome over.
There were multiple nurses inthe room and, like I said, they
(04:22):
were, all you know, absorbedwith this big baby.
And occasionally a nurse wouldcome over when I would say
something and they'd just belike, in fact, I was offered a
Motrin, so here have a Motrin.
And I was like, yeah, Motrin isnot.
Danielle Smith (04:33):
This is not the level of pain I'm talking about.
I'm laughing I not laughingbecause it's funny, but laughing
at the audacity of having aMortin and you just had a baby.
And it's like here's a Tylenolfor for your, your broken femur,
right, I mean?
Jenny Hoffman (04:53):
It's exactly like that.
That's such a good way todescribe it.
So after two hours I let out ascream.
I felt like it was the end ofwhat I could do.
It was like my final reach, andit sounded.
People described it in the roomas like an animal being mauled
to death and I felt like Iwasn't going to be there to take
(05:19):
care of my daughter, and so Iasked my husband for my phone so
I could call my mom.
My mom was not in the deliveryroom with me and I called her
and I couldn't even speak.
I just had this screen.
And she asked him is that Jenny?
And he was like yes, it is.
And she was like I'll be thereas soon as I can.
Luckily, she had alreadytraveled to my house, which is
(05:40):
17 minutes from the hospital.
So I knew this was four in themorning now, so I knew I had to
make it 17 minutes and I couldsee the clock on the wall and I
am now just trying to make it 17minutes for my mom to get there
.
And I knew when she came in theroom I can tell you about my
mom as well, but she is apowerhouse and so she came in
(06:01):
and she was like you got thedoctor Now, you need to go get
help now, like this means shejust made it happen.
So the doctor came back.
She had gone home, she cameback and as soon as she came in
they realized that I had beenbleeding the whole time, but I
had been bleeding internally, soit was all pulling inside, and
that's why there hadn't beenexternal signs or external
(06:23):
visible signs, and so it becamean emergency situation right
away.
So they were doing theprocedure.
We couldn't get into anoperating room, we couldn't get
any anesthesia then, and theywere just pulling out blood and
clots and trying to get thebleeding to stop, and I just
remember that being the mostpainful experience I've ever had
(06:47):
.
Danielle Smith (06:48):
See what's extraordinary to me is so I
shared with you a little bit ofmy experience before we went on
air, and what you're describingis the is exactly exactly what
happened to me, but it's, it'sso.
(07:09):
I hemorrhaged right after, butthey spent a lot of time trying
to stop my bleeding.
Like I lost 60% of blood in thein in delivery and it took her
a very long time to stop thebleeding.
I mean, it was I at the pointand I couldn't feel anything at
that moment because I'd had theepidural and they'd actually had
(07:30):
to turn my epidural off becausethey recognized it was working
quote unquote too well.
I had zero feeling whatsoever.
My hip almost fell out ofsocket when they went to check
me because it had gone too well.
They punctured my spinal fluidarea and so they turned
everything off.
But I couldn't feel anythingand I was watching her and I'm
(07:52):
like is your entire fist?
And she said honey, I amworking so hard on you right now
because she was massaging myuterus to get the bleeding to
stop and I wasn't even allowedto touch Delaney.
Initially, one of the internnurses tried to bring Delaney
over to me, my daughter, and thedoctor looked at her and said,
not right now, like throughclenched teeth, because they
(08:13):
didn't want her anywhere near me, because she was trying to get
the bleeding stopped.
Well, eventually they did.
They packed me and then Iexperienced that same level of
pain and I kept saying there issomething wrong and they kept
saying, no, it's fine, it's justbecause you're packed because
of the bleeding, because of thehemorrhaging.
But I was bleeding internallythe same way, and so when you,
(08:37):
when we had first communicatedabout you hemorrhaging I was
imagining your hemorrhaging wasimmediately after the same way
mine was, and that they stoppedthe bleeding I didn't equate it
to the internal.
Jenny Hoffman (08:55):
That's the pain that I experienced, I mean I
have chills, because that wasexactly the internal piece that
isn't visible, that no onebelieves.
I can't believe how similar ourstories are as well, but
actually I guess I learned thatas I started sharing my story.
(09:17):
I wish we were the only two whohad this story, and yet I found
we're not.
Danielle Smith (09:22):
That's so to this point.
So this is why I love thatyou're another reason that I
love that you're doing this.
Up until now, I hadn'tencountered anyone else who had
had type chills again.
This piece, this where I had tofight to say no, I swear, no, I
(09:49):
swear, I have a high paintolerance, there is something
wrong.
And my husband kept walking outand saying, no, really there's
something wrong.
And his family came in and Iwas white as a ghost and so they
came in and I couldn't havepeople in and they left.
And his mom later was veryupset that we said no, go ahead
and go home, because she couldtell something was wrong but
didn't know what.
And it was only because Ifinally begged them to check
(10:14):
that one of the nurses could seethat the internal hematoma was
pushing its way out that theyended up calling all the doctors
back in and then I was broughtinto emergency surgery.
It was because the internalbleeding was becoming externally
visible that they were able tosee that there was a issue.
Jenny Hoffman (10:33):
Isn't that so symbolic when we're experiencing
internal complications and thenhave to advocate for ourselves
so that others can see it?
And when I wasn't strong enough, then I had to call my mom, who
can be my strength for me, andyou know my story continued that
, actually.
So we stopped the bleedingenough, but I continued to bleed
(10:56):
and had to go back for a DNC at10 weeks postpartum there was
no placenta remaining, eventhough we had done the bedside
procedure.
So it continued for quite sometime.
So in the hospital the firsttime I lost 2.2 liters of blood.
I was given three units ofblood then to help me and I just
(11:19):
still felt so weak, so muchpain Again, that feeling of I
knew something was wrong.
Felt so weak, so much painagain, that feeling of I knew
something was wrong.
So even at my six weekpostpartum visit, I had to
advocate for myself and I had to, you know, really demand an
ultrasound.
And as soon as the ultrasoundturned on, I knew, you know, you
could see it on thetechnician's face that there was
something wrong and I knew thatI was going to have to go to
(11:42):
surgery again.
Danielle Smith (11:45):
So what would you say to people about
advocating for themselves?
Because, it's interesting, myex, my husband at the time, now
my ex-husband still a very goodfriend of mine he said to me the
next day because he has always,he had always operated as
(12:05):
doctors know best.
Yes, the next day he looked atme and said I will never again
doubt you.
I will never again doubt whenyou say we have to advocate for
ourselves because, because theyended up taking me into
emergency surgery, they did itwhen he had gone downstairs into
the chapel to pray, because hehad just reached up Like I don't
(12:27):
know what else to do, nobody'slistening.
And when he came back, thedoctor was coming out of surgery
and she just walked up to hughim.
He thought I died and shewalked up to hug him because she
was just so relieved that I wasokay, that everything had gone
fine.
But he said to me I'll neveragain doubt you.
Like, if we have to advocatefor ourselves, we have to
(12:49):
advocate for ourselves.
If we know something is wrong,I'm going to trust you, I'm
going to trust myself, I'm goingto trust our kids when they
know something is wrong.
What do you say to people toget them to believe themselves
and how to push.
Jenny Hoffman (13:04):
It's such a good question because I really took
this experience as what do Ilearn about myself and how can I
then help others based on thisexperience, because I don't want
it to be needless suffering.
And one of the things that Ilearned about myself was one
that I'm stronger than I everknew.
And two, that I could live withless fear.
(13:25):
I had been through the neardeath experience.
So all those things that we'reafraid to do, forget that fear,
just try it.
But three is to really listento my gut, because I was right,
I knew something and I've hadthose types of experience
whether it's in a professionallife or a personal experience
where you have a gut feeling andsometimes you don't always
(13:47):
listen to it.
And my learning in this was youknow I never I don't blame a
physician or a particularhospital or anything.
I think this is a challenge ofthe system and as a system, we
need to figure out how toimprove women's health.
Challenge of the system and asa system, we need to figure out
how to improve women's health.
And so to me, it's been how dowe empower women to believe in
(14:09):
yourself and trust your gut,because you know yourself more
than anyone else is going toknow you and you're often right,
you're almost.
You know you're right far morethan you're ever wrong, and
there's far little risk in beingwrong there.
So you might as well advocatefor yourself and trust in
yourself, and that gave me thisstrength and courage.
That is a force.
Danielle Smith (14:31):
That is.
I love that so much because Ithink that we regularly doubt
ourselves right, and thepushback that we get.
If you think about just our twoexperiences, right, you're
offered a Motrin.
They said to me well hon,you're at seizure level for
(14:53):
morphine.
We can't give you any more.
There's enough morphine in yoursystem to knock out a 350 pound
football player.
We can't give you any more.
And I said I don't want anymore because there was something
in me that knew if I went tosleep I wasn't going to be okay.
Had I gone to sleep I wouldn'thave been okay.
I needed to stay awake to keepgetting someone to pay attention
(15:18):
.
And it's crazy, right?
Because if I'd gone to sleep Iwould have died in my sleep,
right, I got chills again andthen you know yourself and my
daughter would have been withouta mother.
Jenny Hoffman (15:34):
Right, it's like this.
This internal clock in you issaying keep fighting.
That's what it was.
Keep fighting.
And so I did.
Danielle Smith (15:47):
And, like you, I don't blame anyone, because
everyone is going based on whatthey know.
I can remember a doctor friendof mine telling me at one point
she was an OB or is an OB, andshe said, before I was pregnant
myself, I was going based onwhat I learned in school, in
(16:08):
books, and then, once I waspregnant, I realized there was a
piece of me that had been lyingto my patients because they
would say they were experiencingX, y, z.
And I would say, oh no, no, no,no, you're not.
And it wasn't until I waspregnant that I thought, oh my
gosh, they actually do feel thisway.
And then I think about all ofthe male doctors over the years
(16:30):
that must have said oh no, youdon't, because they were
treating bladder infections andand menopause and menstrual
cycles and childbirth andthere's no actual experience,
right.
And what you are giving voiceto with the work you're doing is
(16:52):
saying I see you, I hear you,it's valid, keep fighting.
What have you learned throughputting these stories together
and giving voice to theseexperiences.
Jenny Hoffman (17:08):
The first thing that I'd say is you matter, and
that's the broader you as wellas you individually.
You matter and your storymatters, and I learned that
because I started actually justsharing my story with my
coworkers because I wasdiagnosed with PTSD from the
experience, and so I would gettriggered if I felt like I was
(17:28):
not heard, and so I wantedpeople around me to understand
when I might have a reaction andwhy that was, and that was very
vulnerable for me to startsharing.
But when I started sharing mystory, then other women started
opening up and being like oh, Iactually experienced something
similar and I experienced thiscomplication and maybe it was
(17:49):
different, but it was anothercomplication and I realized that
there were so many stories likeours and we have a louder voice
together, a stronger voicetogether, and we have a louder
voice together, a stronger voicetogether.
We can amplify our voicestogether.
So the first thing that Ilearned.
(18:10):
So I then read this articlethat maybe some of you have read
it about the McKinsey HealthInstitute created a blueprint on
the gap in women's health and,amongst many things, it's a
wonderful read, but one of thethings they highlight is data
being a critical gap toimproving women's health, that
we don't have the data to reallyunderstand what is the true
incidence and impact.
(18:30):
Well, my PhD is inbioengineering and I wrote
peer-reviewed journal articlesand have done engineering and
science research before, and soI was like that's a gap we can
address.
If data is the gap, I'll startthere, because if data is what's
required to drive awareness sothat there's then future
(18:51):
investment and innovation, let'sstart getting the data.
And so I started reaching outto others to collect their
stories, and the first thing Isaw in these stories is that
there were a lot of themes thatwere very similar.
Number one the percentage ofpostpartum hemorrhage.
It still is the leading causeof maternal mortality throughout
(19:14):
the world and it's a highly alot of these complications are
preventable or at least don'thave to get as serious as they
often get, like in our stories,and I found that the trauma
people experienced was lingering, like mine was, and that helped
me realize that I was not aloneand I could relate to other
(19:37):
people too, and indestigmatizing telling the story
, it just made such a differencein the recovery for each of us.
Danielle Smith (19:47):
I love that.
So it's storytelling is heartwork for me, right?
That's the genesis of thispodcast, right?
I find that the most powerfulthing that we can, that someone
can hear, is things they alreadyknow.
Basically, it's my story comingout of your mouth, right, it's
(20:15):
being able to hear you tell astory and I get to hear and
think, wow, I'm not alone.
Right, I thought this was aDanielle thing and it's a
universal thing.
It's something that someoneelse is experiencing and
therefore, I'm not alone.
(20:36):
And that is my hope with thepodcast.
Right, that each episode weshare each, each person I get
the privilege of interviewing issharing an experience that
meets someone somewhere wherethey are and they can turn
around and say, oh my gosh, Iknow someone else who needs to
(20:57):
hear this.
I know someone who had thisexperience.
Or there will be someone whohas an experience similar to
yours and they had no idea thatit was causing them PTSD, and
they'll hear that and a lightbulb will go off and they'll
think, wow, okay, no wonder Ifeel that way, no wonder I feel
(21:22):
really triggered when Irecognize that people aren't
hearing me.
It goes back to that experiencein the hospital when I had my
daughter six years ago, 10 yearsago, 14 years ago, right that
these stories are aha momentsfor people that make them feel
seen and heard in a way thatthey weren't feeling before,
(21:46):
which is very similar to thereason that you're doing the
work you're doing right, andthat's the power of storytelling
.
It's the power of beingvulnerable and collecting the
stories and sharing them right.
So when you started to collectthis data, what are you doing
(22:09):
with the data?
Who are you passing it on to tohopefully create the change
that you know needs to becreated?
First, I want to say that theway you described hoping that
somebody hears that they have asimilar story and they are not
alone that's the whole reason Ido this work.
(22:29):
It's been nine years since mydaughter was born, so it's taken
me those years to get to aplace where I could share this
story without being as triggered.
And when I started analyzingthe stories, I actually called
my coworker at one point and waslike I don't think I can do it.
I don't think I can do itbecause it's so hard to relive
(22:50):
these experiences.
And so she was like you know,take a moment, don't try to get
through too much in a day andyou can do this.
And I realized I really could.
I could, I had that strengthagain and I could learn to live
with empathy and my heart on mysleeve as well.
And well, you very much can and very clearly
(23:12):
do and I think what you're doingis powerful and, like I said,
being able to, to share thatstory.
And even when you said, like Ifind that, as I'm interviewing
people and my hope that thatthis meets someone else, I
recognize that each time I'mtalking to somebody I've met,
(23:35):
I'm learning something.
I'm feeling a bit of what Ihope someone else will feel.
And when you said that the PTSDpiece, like the being triggered
when you're not hurt, I thought, oh, that's where it comes from
, you know, and that's, thoseare the, those are the pieces
that I hope other people feelRight and and that it's, it's
(23:57):
validating for me all over again, each and every time, and I and
I recognize that every time Iget those little moments of
chills, I okay, there it is,like, this is, this is what I'm
doing, this for I want people tofeel seen and heard.
And it's because people likeyou are doing that work that
(24:19):
they are out there beingvulnerable and saying I was
terrified and this was hard andI didn't think I could do the
hard things.
And guess what?
I can't.
Jenny Hoffman (24:34):
Exactly so.
With the data.
We have about 200 stories and Iwas actually my call just
before this was working with adata scientist on analyzing the
data that we have.
We've just done the firstanalysis of the first 100
stories.
So we've looked at things likewhat are some of those early
signs that women get?
What could we help thehealthcare system be aware of
(24:57):
and maybe pay more attention tosystem, be aware of and maybe
pay more attention to what weresome of the long-term effects
that then could drive futureinnovation?
So the stories I got were notonly postpartum hemorrhage.
The other leading cause ofmaternal morbidity and mortality
is also preeclampsia.
So there are certainly plentyof stories about preeclampsia as
(25:18):
well.
So first I analyzed all thestories together and found some
common themes.
Secondly, I then did a subanalysis on each of those
patient populations and we'refinding fascinating things.
So, for example, trauma is acommon experience across both.
I also would say change inbirth plan.
(25:41):
You know so much.
So many of us are taught tocreate a birth plan, and then
people said I had to throw mybirth plan out the window and I
had to do that as well, and soknowing that ahead of time is
really useful if that mighthappen.
But the third piece then, Ithink, is really realizing that
(26:01):
the trauma actually was a largerpercentage of the postpartum
hemorrhage stories than theoverall population and was
actually a much smallerpercentage for the preeclampsia
patient.
Well, that gives us someinteresting information, because
that actually tells us thatdiagnosing some of these
postpartum hemorrhage casesright away is what's critical
when seconds matter.
(26:22):
So knowing that you shouldadvocate for yourself right when
you get that feeling ofsomething being wrong is
actually critical and don't stop, don't give up.
And then a way we can bring intechnology and education, so
education for all of thehealthcare providers in the room
to know that when a patientsays they're feeling something's
(26:44):
wrong, even if it's maybe it'sa headache or maybe it's pain,
and pain and headache might bethings that you experience
naturally in childbirth, butalso they might be signaling a
bigger problem.
So it's worth investigatingthose right away.
Danielle Smith (27:12):
Those are some of the insights we're getting
the heart centered side of ofall of this storytelling.
You are using your brillianceIn addition to the storytelling.
You have decided that you wouldlike to really affect change on
(27:34):
top of making people feel seenand heard, and I love that so
much.
There is this piece of you thatsaid I want people to feel seen
and heard, but I also think thesystem is broken and I don't
like how I felt and how I wastreated and what went wrong, and
(28:05):
I know that it's happening toother people.
How can I change that?
And you're finding a way andthat is extraordinary.
Jenny Hoffman (28:19):
That's it Exactly .
Whatever voice I have, whatevervoices I can amplify, let's use
those to make the future better, because most of these
experiences could be preventedfor future women, and no one
should have to go through anexperience like the two of us
have and many others have aswell, and so my goal is to use
this data to influencepolicymakers.
(28:40):
There's groups like WomenHealth Advocates that I'm part
of, and there's also innovationthat could be inspired too, so I
work a lot in early stagemedical devices.
So, venture capitalists, I wantyou to know that there's a real
mean here.
There's a real opportunity Putinvestment into these spaces.
Danielle Smith (29:01):
So OK, on that end.
How can the collective wesupport what you're doing?
Do you need additional stories?
Are you eventually looking forventure capital?
Are you looking for venturecapital now?
Are you?
what do you need?
Jenny Hoffman (29:24):
Thank you for asking that.
First of all, I am alwayslooking for new stories because
I believe that the more data wehave, the more powerful it is
and we get more insights.
So, always looking for morestories, you can go to the
website wwwstoryofstrengthcomand you can put your story in
there.
Before you go to the second,are you looking for any
experiences?
Any stories regarding maternalhealth, maternal experiences,
(29:49):
maternal complications?
that's right.
Any any maternal experiencethat you had that didn't go as
you expected and plan PerfectOkay, and you can insert your
story online and we'll make surethat it's included and analyzed
and used to make a difference.
Danielle Smith (30:06):
Amazing, okay.
Jenny Hoffman (30:06):
My goal is that that not only sharing that story
is part of your healing journey, but also then part of a system
healing journey too.
Danielle Smith (30:15):
Okay, and is there any level of anonymity to
it, if somebody wanted that, oris there?
Where does it go?
Where does the story go?
Jenny Hoffman (30:26):
Thank you for asking that.
I've committed that everythingis anonymous, so everything is
de-identified information.
Your name is never included.
We analyze the information, butthere is no identifying
information at all in that.
Danielle Smith (30:43):
Is there anything that would allow some
type of support?
If somebody is looking for somelevel of recognition, community
support, so healing?
Jenny Hoffman (30:56):
That's a great question.
We have social media channelsFacebook, instagram, linkedin,
story of Strength and there arecommunities to find there.
There's also resources thatwe've put.
In fact, there was a post lastweek where we put resources.
If you're looking for specific,there's a postpartum hemorrhage
(31:17):
support group on Facebook and Ifound it incredibly useful.
So there are definitely some ofthose communities if you're
looking for them, and we've putsome of those resources up as
well
Danielle Smith (31:27):
We'll be sharing all of those in the show notes
as well.
Okay, so now to the nextquestion.
What else can we do to supportyou moving forward with the data
collection that could affectchange?
Jenny Hoffman (31:38):
The next thing I am looking for is investment,
and that investment will fuelgathering even more stories as
well as designing a future study.
So collecting the stories isqualitative data, and that's an
amazing step we've taken.
There's opportunity in thefuture to move toward interviews
as well, so that we can probedeeper on some of these specific
(32:01):
experiences too.
So this is just the beginning.
Danielle Smith (32:05):
I am so excited for you.
I'm excited that you are usingall of the tools at your
disposal to affect this level ofchange.
I think that you are uniquelyequipped to do this level of
(32:27):
work.
How would somebody reach out toyou if they were interested in
getting involved on that level?
Jenny Hoffman (32:35):
You can contact me via the website as well, and
I am sure that via this podcast,there's ways to get in touch
too.
So yeah, reach out.
I'd love to be in touch withothers to experience stories
that are relevant and also wantto be part of the movement,
(32:57):
because really, this isinspiring a movement.
Danielle Smith (33:01):
Jenny, how do you define hope.
Jenny Hoffman (33:05):
What a great question.
A belief that there's somethinggreater coming.
Danielle Smith (33:12):
I like that.
I like that A lot of times whenI ask people that question that
the answer is very broad andflowy and you're very succinct.
What have you learned aboutyourself in this process, in
creating Story of Strength?
Jenny Hoffman (33:44):
The first is that I learned I could.
It was an idea and, as you said, I had a unique approach that
it's not just collecting thestories but also using my
education and experience toanalyze them.
And I did and I could, and Iguess that goes back to the
confidence case that we talkedabout.
I did and I could, and I guessthat goes back to the confidence
piece that we talked aboutbelieving in myself, and I hope
(34:05):
everyone listening can take thatand believe in themselves too.
And I mentioned.
The second was that I'mstronger than I ever knew and
that carries me through all thetime, because it might sound
like I then have confidence andno fear, and the reality is
that's just not the case.
I was telling my husbandyesterday about how I'm writing
up a blog post on impostersyndrome, because imposter
syndrome struck me again andit'll keep striking.
(34:27):
So I think that I have to keeprelearning that I'm stronger
than I know and keep rememberingthe confidence that I've
learned stronger than I know,and keep remembering the
confidence that I've learned.
Danielle Smith (34:39):
I feel like you and I are the same person.
What does your daughter thinkabout this work you are doing
and this work that wasultimately inspired by her birth
experience?
Jenny Hoffman (34:51):
First.
My daughters are seven and nine, so I do want to inspire hope
as well by saying that I did goon to have a second pregnancy
and I made sure that for thesecond pregnancy everyone knew
my history and we were preparedshould any complications arise.
They did not arise in the sameway.
The only problem I had was mysecond child was sunny side up
(35:12):
and so that was a little bitharder to push, but other than
that, all smooth.
So it is possible.
I get that question a lot.
Is it possible to have another?
I went to a different physician.
I went to a high-risk hospital.
I made sure all the expertswere ready and, yes, it's
possible.
So my children know that mommy'svery passionate about my work.
(35:34):
I really like to support othersand they'll even sometimes I'm
at my home office right now.
They'll even sometimes come inthe background and see what I'm
doing, and I think they're stilllearning exactly especially my
older daughter, evelyn what thatmeans around the unique
circumstances of her birth.
I don't think she fullyunderstands that yet, the
movement that she's inspired,and I hope she continues to
(35:57):
understand that as she grows up.
Right now I think she knowsthat mommy connects with lots of
people and likes to make adifference.
And that comes even when we'reat the dinner table and all
talking about what we've donethat day, and I hope she'll live
with that passion in her lifeas well.
Danielle Smith (36:15):
I love that.
You know it's funny.
I was asked the same questionbecause I also went on to have a
second.
But I came out of surgery andas I was waking up from surgery,
my husband was on the phonewith my best friend going.
She's a trooper and, yeah, youknow, she doesn't want to have a
second.
We don't have to have a secondlike that was.
That was enough, and I didn'tgo on to have a second.
(36:35):
I did use the same doctor andshe, uh she said to me we're
going to induce you so that Ican be 100% in control of
everything and so that I can beprepared.
Um, she didn't say to me at thetime.
I think I mentioned to you.
Had I known you were a red,like a real redhead, I might've
expected it, because redheadstend to bleed and have
(36:58):
additional complications.
Um, but I legitimately mydelivery with my son was so easy
.
I pushed one time and she mademe laugh and he came out and she
just put him right on mystomach.
So we joke about how he waslaughed into the world.
So I, after I had him, Ithought well, this is why people
(37:20):
have multiple children, becauseif this is how it is for other
people, then this is why had Ihad him first then.
But yeah, I mean it's.
There are, thank goodness, manynon-complicated births, and I'm
really grateful for the workyou do that shares the stories
(37:45):
and collects the data for theones that are not, so that we
can, as a society, do the workto bring us even further down
the road of creating an evensafer maternal health
environment.
So is there anything I did notask you that you would like to
(38:05):
share with everyone?
Jenny Hoffman (38:06):
The last thing I want to share is I also realized
that obviously I have a passionfor women's health and
improving women's healthoutcomes, but I realized that
these stories didn't have to bespecific to women's health, that
they could.
Realized that these storiesdidn't have to be specific to
women's health, that they couldactually be any challenge that
people went through and foundtheir inner strength and their
authenticity, and so I actuallywrote up this experience and the
(38:30):
method I have of openleadership, using curiosity,
empathy and connection, andwrote that into a book and it'll
be coming out this October.
So the book is called Open Up,so check that out in October.
Danielle Smith (38:43):
Oh, I love that.
Well, what I would love for youto do is make sure that you
share that with me so that I canupdate show notes, so that, as
people continue to listen toepisodes of the podcast, that
that will be in show notes and Iwould be happy to share that
when it comes out too.
So, congratulations on the book.
That is very exciting.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for beinghere and for sharing your light
(39:06):
and your experience and yourstory of strength.
Jenny Hoffman (39:10):
I really appreciate it and I hope
everyone knows that they're notalone and your story matters.
Danielle Smith (39:16):
Thank you so much for being here, jenny.
Jenny Hoffman (39:17):
I really appreciate it, and I hope
everyone knows that they're notalone and your story matters.
Danielle Smith (39:18):
Thank you so much for being here, Jenny.
Jenny Hoffman (39:19):
I really appreciate it.
nd thank you, friends, forspending this time with us, for
allowing us to bring some hopeto visit for you.
If you have found this episodeinspiring and we have met you
where you are I hope that youwill turn around and share it
with the people that you knowwould love, and that you will
turn around and share it withthe people that you know and
love, and that you will comeback and join us again on future
(39:40):
episodes.
Between now and then, do takecare of yourself, and thank you
for being here with us.
Advertisement - Naturally, it'simportant to thank the people
who support and sponsor thepodcast.
This episode is supported byChris Dulley, a trusted criminal
defense attorney and friend ofmine here in St Louis, who
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believes in second chances andsolid representation.
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