What if the most difficult chapters of your life were actually preparing you for unexpected gifts?
In this moving episode of Hope Comes to Visit, award-winning writer Maria de los Angeles shares how caring for her parents with Alzheimer’s taught her the very resilience, humility, and compassion she would later need to face her own esophageal cancer diagnosis.
Maria speaks candidly about the sacred and heartbreaking realities of caregiving — from changing her parents’ diapers to sitting with the grief of loss. “It was the most beautiful and hardest thing I would ever do,” she reflects, opening a window of wisdom for anyone navigating elder care.
Her journey also weaves through sobriety, relapse, and return to recovery — revealing how healing is rarely linear, but always worth it. And even in the midst of cancer treatment, Maria carries astonishing perspective: “I am not the symptom,” she says, describing how she talks to her tumor and continues to find moments of joy.
Perhaps most inspiring is Maria’s embrace of midlife transformation. “Menopause was the best thing that ever happened to me,” she declares. For her, the fifties have become a season of unapologetic honesty and fierce clarity about what matters most.
This conversation culminates with Maria reading her breathtaking poem “Spoonfuls,” a tender reflection on feeding her mother during her final days — a moment that crystallizes the circular nature of care and the hidden gifts within life’s hardest seasons.
Connect with Maria on her newsletter - https://www.heartcenteredliving.news/newsletter
And everywhere else you can find her.
You can also support Maria in her cancer journey here.
Thank you for listening to Hope Comes to Visit. If this episode resonated with you, please follow, rate, and share the show — it helps others find their way to these conversations.
New episodes drop every Monday and Friday, so you can begin and end your week with a little light and a lot of hope.
For more stories, reflections, and ways to connect, visit www.DanielleElliottSmith.com or follow along on Instagram @daniellesmithtv and @HopeComestoVisit
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Menopause was the best thing that ever happened to
me.
But in addition to the physicalchanges, that I most welcome
actually, it's the ability tostill be in your prime, because
this isn't our grandmother'smenopause, you know no, it's not
and still be filled withcuriosity and wonder and, you
(00:25):
know, still be sassy and sexyand funny.
And my parishioner friend wasright your life does not start
until you're 50.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Welcome to Hope Comes to Visit a place for soft
landings, soul, truth and theunedited middle.
I'm Danielle Elliott Smith andtoday's episode is an invitation
into a tender, transformativeconversation with a beautiful
soul.
Maria de los Angeles is anaward-winning writer and
journalist.
She is also the publisher ofthe Heart Centered Living
(01:11):
newsletter, a curated collectionof news stories, resources and
delightful curiosities thatinspire action and contemplation
.
A monthly newsletter, heartCentered Living, opens the door
to a wide range of topics forthe practical mystic or anyone
longing for groundedspirituality.
Born in Puerto Rico, to Cubanrefugees, maria was raised in
South Florida and lived inWashington DC before leaving the
US in January 2025.
She is currently writing a newlife chapter in her ancestral
(01:32):
homeland, northern Spain.
Let's take a quick moment tothank the people that support
and sponsor the podcast.
When life takes an unexpectedturn, you deserve someone who
will stand beside you.
St Louis attorney Chris Jeyoffers experienced one-on-one
legal defense.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP, or you can visit
(01:55):
DulleyLawFirmcom that'sD-U-L-L-E-LawFirmcom for a free
consultation.
Maria, thank you so much forbeing here.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
It's such a delight to be here with you today.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I am so excited to dive into your story because
there are so many pieces of itthat I truly believe are going
to resonate with our audience.
So I want to start one of thethings when you, when you and I
were first messaging and writingback and forth, I know that one
(02:31):
of the pieces that firstconnected with me was that you
were, that you have, that youtook care of your, your parents.
Um just moved my dad fromFlorida to the St Louis area,
and I am in that stage whereI've stopped having to actively
(02:57):
take care of young children andam now making sure that that my
dad is okay.
You mentioned that your parentshad Alzheimer's.
Yes, let's talk a little bitabout that piece of your journey
.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, I like to say that it was the most beautiful
and hardest thing I would everdo in my life.
Of course, now I have a cancerdiagnosis, so life is upping the
challenge, but I can tell youthis and I promise to get back
to that later that that preparedme for today.
And why?
(03:35):
Because it really wasincredibly humbling to change
your parents' diapers.
Humbling to change yourparents' diapers and to confront
death and to see the life cyclecome to an end.
It was really really scary atthe time, but it broke open my
(03:58):
heart in such a way to let somuch love in, which is something
that I hadn't experiencedbefore to let so much love in,
which is something that I hadn'texperienced before Now.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
we mentioned in the intro that your parents were
Cuban refugees, right so wherewere you raised?
I was raised in Miami, in SouthFlorida, in the exile community
of Cuba?
Okay, and so your parents?
How long ago was it that youwere taking care of them?
And they both had Alzheimer's.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Well, they were on the spectrum of memory disorder.
So my mom had full blownAlzheimer's, my father had
vascular dementia, and I justsometimes say Alzheimer's for
simplicity.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Different types of memory loss, different types of
bodily loss function, et cetera,different needs, and so that
was around the mid-aughts to2017 or so.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Okay, and so you took care of both of them.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yes For the most part .
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yes For the most part yes, I know that my grandmother
had Alzheimer's and that was myfirst encounter with it and it
was interesting to me to watchher.
Revert was the best way I coulddescribe it.
She went from.
(05:27):
She would lose her most recentmemories, like the first thing
she forgot was that I had kids,and then she forgot that I was
married and then she lost mybrother and I, and then my dad
was in her mind a young man andthen a toddler Did that.
Was that experience similar foryou?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yes, and there was one pivotal moment which had to
do more with the present.
I wrote a poem about this themoment where my mom put dish
soap into the frying pan insteadof oil, really, and that
changed everything.
And then in this poem I talkabout what it was like to feed
(06:06):
her and she could no longer feedherself and I became a mother
to my mother, and then she wasnonverbal.
The points of nonrecognitionwhen they did happen, at least
my parents weren't aggressive,they wouldn't sum down, which is
another thing that I'm gratefulfor.
(06:28):
But it really brought to mindhow we take story for granted
and how our memories shape whowe are and how it all just
dissipates.
It's that scaffolding of lifethat suddenly goes away, and
imagine how bewildering that is.
What a beautiful phrase.
Scaffolding of life thatsuddenly goes away, and imagine
how bewildering that is.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
What a beautiful phrase scaffolding of life.
I don't know if you have thepoem handy or if you're willing
to share it, but I'm always,always open to Maybe towards the
end.
Okay, absolutely, I'm alwaysopen to that level of
storytelling and beauty.
Storytelling and beauty what?
How would you describe thatexperience of taking care of
(07:08):
your, your parents?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I'm not gonna lie, it sucked and I hated it and I
loved it at the same time ReallyBoth things.
And you can do hard things thatI never thought I could do.
Now I didn't have kids, but Iended up having my parents and
so I had to improvise.
Nobody teaches you this right.
(07:31):
When you have a baby, youprepare for nine months and you
read the books and you get ababy shower.
Nobody does that for thecaregiver the adult caregiver of
elderly parents, and so Ibecame the medical manager.
I mean, it started verygradually like take them to
doctor's appointments, but thenI had to advocate and take notes
(07:53):
.
Managing their pills, whichchanged dosage constantly, was a
part time job, I kid you not.
I practically lived at CVS.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes, and hearing the music was very triggering.
Years later, when I had to dothat, I said I forgot about this
.
It sounded like Liberace.
It was really off brand, butanyway it's what you hear in
your nightmares.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
now, cvs is hold music.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
And all the hospitalizations and triages.
I mean, my nervous system wasconstantly up here, I had
adrenal, my adrenals were justflying around and that went on
for a few years and I broke thenumber one rule of caregiving,
which is take care of yourselffirst.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I just didn't know better.
Okay, so is.
Was there anyone around toremind you to take care of you,
or did you feel isolated?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I did feel somewhat isolated.
I did have friends who did likewould go grocery shopping for
me.
My sisters would come insometimes and help, but I was
largely in charge of a lot ofthis day-to-day stuff that can
be very onerous.
It's like being a single mom.
I'm not saying they didn't help, that's not fair to say but I
(09:18):
was micromanaging everything andmicro-advocating everything.
Especially with senior care inthe US I learned some really
ugly things about the systemover there that made me ashamed
to be human and the things thatI saw in nursing homes and the
lack of regulation or too muchregulation.
(09:38):
I mean it was horrifying that Idescribed it as a house of
horrors to see elderly peopleabandoned like that.
Just um, but I I mean I didhave some support.
I also didn't know what to askfor.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
That's a really important point.
So is there a recommendationthat you would make?
So if someone is going throughthis right now, if I am heading
in that direction now, what do Iask for?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, you know, now there's many more resources.
I think it also kind of blew upwhen I first started.
I think it was caregivingorg onTwitter.
You know that was sending outstuff, and now there's many more
caregiver resources websites.
There's more awareness.
(10:36):
And I think my biggest piece ofadvice is if you have parents
and this is not a fun thing tosay, but you can't abort your
parents.
You can't not have parents, Imean, unless you break up with
them, you know.
And so families really need toplan early on what it's going to
(10:57):
be like later for a worst casescenario.
If it doesn't happen, great,but who's going to commit to
taking them to the doctor?
It's family planning, but it'snot about having babies.
So, preparing ahead of time,downsizing your parents' home,
moving them close to you if youneed to, taking dad's car keys
(11:19):
away, I mean all of these thingsyou have to prepare for, and
I'm not saying you'll be readywhen you get there, but at least
you'll know they're coming.
And then you know there's more.
I can't name them specificallyright now but, for example,
alzheimersorg, caregiverorg,your local state or local
(11:48):
government Actually there is todate that I know of they will
pay adult children to take careof their parents.
There's just some paperworkinvolved, which.
I didn't know about at the time.
I didn't know if Florida hadthat.
That would have been reallyhelpful because I had to put my
life on hold.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
That's really interesting.
That feels like something thateither I should be researching
now or that we should certainlyrecommend.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And long-term health care insurance for whatever
Medicare or Medicaid won't coverfor the nursing homes, which
are ridiculous, very expensive.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Very, very, very expensive.
Yes, that is.
It's very valuable advice.
And so you're talking about allthe logistic, all the technical
.
Let's talk about the heart sideof this, right, because this is
.
I have witnessed a few friendsrecently losing parents to
(12:46):
Alzheimer's, and the few friendsthat I've actually seen going
through this happen to bewriters, and they've been
beautifully transparent aboutthe experience, and I can only
imagine what this does to yourheart, what this experience is
like on the inside.
(13:08):
How did you, how did you handleit?
How did you make sure that youwere OK?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I didn't handle it very well At the time.
I was so overwhelmed.
But you know, like a butterflyinside a cocoon, there was stuff
happening.
I just didn't see it then thatwhen I came out at the other end
, I was transformed and I people.
(13:39):
So how I handled it was justtaking care of the immediate
moment there was.
It seemed like there was alwayssomething to triage and that
was it.
That's all you can do in themiddle of a crisis.
You crash and burn later, right, but when I came out of it, I
realized that I was transforming.
(14:01):
I just didn't know it then.
And what ended up happening isthat, to let go of my parents, I
did this private ritual by thesea and I literally held their
ashes in my hand, and thatchanged me because, instead of
feeling fear, I felt the deepestlove I've ever known and my
(14:21):
fear just dissipated.
People ask me why I am notafraid now, and I said, well, I
already went through that and Imight be afraid five minutes
from now, but right now I'vealready experienced this
mystical thing that I wouldimagine.
It's like when a person has achild, right, that it's just so
(14:44):
beyond you and yet so incarnatedRight and to really, you know,
in life we're just so like, ohwow, yeah, I have this body and
this skin and hair and stuff,but there's the ashes too, and
you know, there's this whole.
I don't know, there's almost apoetry to that that if we lived
(15:09):
un-esthetized to that, if we'realways in denial, it's harder to
prepare for these things.
And I just thought of somethinglike the death cafe movement is
a really good one to get into,even if you don't want to become
(15:30):
a death doula.
Talk to some death doulas,because they train to help
families, not with the medicalstuff but with the emotional
stuff of letting go.
They help the patient and theyhelp the family and that's some
really, really wonderful work.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
So I am familiar with death doulas, but in case
members of our audience are not,will you allow you to explain
death doula so that anyone whois not familiar with what that
is?
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Sure, well, just like we have birth doulas comadres
in Spanish.
They're women who are notnecessarily obstetricians,
although in the olden times theywould have been helped actually
literally deliver the baby, onethat is departing the body, and
(16:22):
they come in and they evaluateyour family, your situation,
they'll create, uh, you know,projects or or tasks, or things
that you can do to give youemotional support, and they hold
your hand the whole way.
There's a certain process todying, even with the body, if
you're dying naturally, like howyour breathing changes.
(16:43):
So you don't panic and you see,like this is my, my person is
just passing, you know, passingthrough.
It's their time to go and ofcourse it's hard, but
information is power and it iscomforting.
You know, this is one time whenignorance may not be bliss um
(17:04):
for you to understand and alsoconfront your own mortality.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
It feels as though it it would allow the process to
be as peaceful as it possiblycould be.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yes, and it's a time I think I mean in certain faiths
.
You know, some people do pay alot of attention to this
transition time, but I think welive in a society where we're
just kind of trying to brush itunder and there should be I
think should be ritual.
A person's going to die a monthfrom now.
(17:40):
Well, that's a whole month tohonor and support that
transition versus trying to rushthrough it.
And you know, and also, ofcourse, grief.
I mean there's pre-bereavement,bereavement, post-bereavement.
I remember someone in my one ofmy grief groups, when someone
(18:01):
would ask her are you feelingbetter?
She would say it's not a cold,you know it's.
It's never going to go away,especially if the love was
really great.
So grief, I think griefeducation in our world is also
really, really key.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, it absolutely is.
I want to go back to somethingyou said, because it sounds to
me as though you mentionedritual, and I feel as though so
much of your path has beencentered around recognizing and
(18:39):
honoring ritual ritual, at leastfrom the time that you realized
that this painful process youwere going through with your
parents was almost designed todirect you.
You hold your parents' ashes,you honor their passing, and how
(19:02):
soon after that ritual andspiritual experience did you
decide to leave Miami?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So my father passed away January 26 and I left on
resurrection Sunday thefollowing April.
Really the appropriate day tostart your life over.
I went to a service on the seaat sunrise and I remember a
fellow parishioner telling me,after I shared my journey with
(19:38):
her.
I was 49 at the time and shesaid, hon, your life won't start
until you're 50, just go, justgo.
And she was right.
And here I am seven years laterum, and how soon.
I mean.
I was coming off of thisintense, economically fraught,
(20:00):
obviously grief-ridden.
What the experience.
And to decompress, I do thenormal crazy thing I do.
I just got on a Greyhound buswith no plan and I visited
friends who opened their homesto me so I could grieve and
spend some time with them.
They were familiar with myjourney.
(20:22):
And nine months later I got ajob in Washington DC, but I had
no plan.
And that was fate, providence,god, higher power, whatever you
want to call it, but I had faithand I knew that I had to leave,
that I had nothing to anchor methere anymore.
It was time for me to fledge,as it were, and that my parents
(20:47):
would have wanted that to justgo.
And now I'm in Spain, which wasa lifelong dream as well to be
closer to my roots.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I love that.
So what has that journey beenlike for you?
Because you mentioned that thechallenges and the pain that you
faced with your parents haveuniquely prepared you for today,
for where you are now.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Well, let's not forget that in between all of
that, I got sober.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Ah, yes, welcome.
So you and I have that incommon, so congratulations, of
course.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
And so when you go through this caregiving process
and then you go through thecaregiving of yourself getting
sober process, I'm not going tosay cancer is a piece of cake,
of course not.
But I've been through somestuff and right, absolutely and,
honestly, when I relapsed, Ireally thought I was going to
die for real this time with this, not so much because I have
(21:53):
care, I care for myself and Ihave faith in my higher power,
and I have my practices and Ilive the program.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
So, so you mentioned relapsing.
So you, at what point were youinitially sober that you
relapsed in 2021?
Yes, yeah, so at what pointwere you initially sober?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
around the time I got to DC, like late 2017, okay,
covid that whole thing and thensome stuff happened.
And you then you just saywhat's one glass of wine?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
well, one glass of wine can can be 10.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
It's incredible how I just quickly sink way down
lower than you were before, andyou don't even want to.
And there you are.
So, but that said, I needed togo through that.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
To be where you are now, right.
Okay, so you relapse, and whatbrings you out of your relapse?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
The miracle of a scholarship to a wonderful
treatment center and going backto things Okay and reuniting
virtually with an old friend whobecame my sponsor.
And of course not, and andbringing in community, and I've
never looked back.
That's what I needed, though Ineeded the respite.
(23:23):
It wasn't just the relapse, itwas everything that led up to
that it's.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
It's interesting because I Because every story of
relapse that I have heard itneeded to happen right.
That was the piece that putthings together in order for
that new phase of sobriety toexist.
(23:52):
Sobriety to exist, it's it.
It equipped you to be where youare now.
It makes me wonder, had you nothad that relapse and you had
(24:21):
your cancer diagnosis, would yoube as strong as you are now?
Right, I have.
I spoke to a previous guest whois also a friend and and I had
said you know, I, I frequentlyhave said I believe that when we
go through recovery, we shouldbe exempt from hard things,
because we go through so much tofind ourselves on this side of
recovery and yet life stillhappens.
We still get cancer diagnosis,we still lose people and
(24:43):
experience extreme grief, westill lose jobs and our cars
break down and we take care ofelderly parents, and.
But we have to have learned howto feel and experience and live
.
And if we don't know how to dothose things, that's when we are
in danger of the relapse again,because that's what the
(25:05):
addiction is.
The addiction is I don't wantto feel, and so much of the
beauty of what I'm hearing inyou and your story is how you
are feeling, how you areactively living.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Tell me about your cancer diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Well, if I may, just you can hold that thought for a
second, of course, because I dohave a newsletter on
spirituality which is very muchcombined with current affairs,
and I do do a lot of spiritualwork, and I studied with Eckhart
Tolle, you know, and I tookthese classes on mysticism at
Georgetown, you know auditingbecause I just love this stuff
(25:50):
and it makes me happy.
I'm curious I lived in awonderful city with an enormous
spiritual interfaith community.
most people don't think of dcsspiritual but it is um and but,
like I tell my sponsor and goback to the words scaffolding
for me, the 12 steps is thescaffolding of my life now all
(26:12):
that other stuff really helpsand I'm and like what you're
saying is that if we don't learnhow to live with this structure
and which, by the way, is I'velectured on, this is based on
the christ consciousness, butthat's a whole other story.
Um, it's hard and that's partof the of what helped me face
(26:38):
this cancer diagnosis.
Both things, um, and I continueto study and write about it,
and so the cancer diagnosis is Ihave esophageal cancer.
Okay, I have hopefully by nowsomewhat reduced 13 centimeter
tumor right here close to theheart center, and I'm undergoing
(27:03):
radiation and chemo.
This will be well.
I'm now in my second week ofeverything, or six more weeks.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Okay, I'm so grateful that you feel well enough to be
chatting with us, and you lookfantastic.
So how are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Well, I do also have a minor lung bronchial booboo.
I'm taking antibiotics.
We had to postpone the lastmeeting because I was coughing
so much.
But I'm feeling much better andfinally getting some sleep, and
of course, that helps.
I'm not able to go outside andwalk these beautiful hills
(27:50):
surrounding me here, okay, but Iwill as soon as I can breathe
better.
Um, I'm usually very active,but I just you know what this is
a couple of weeks of cocooning,um, and I just my priority is
to feel good and to feel joy,and when I don't feel so well
(28:11):
like I had some nausea earlierthis week, a lot of brain fog
and fatigue, it's, it's normal.
Then I just sit with that andit's it's not easy, but I, you
know, the antidote for me is tosupercharge my gratitude.
(28:31):
I mean constantly I'm groundingand I'm gratitude.
I mean constantly I'm groundingand I'm thanking, because I.
It's a long story about how Iended up at this hotel near the
hospital.
God worked in my favor, eventhough it was extremely
stressful to get here, and allof a sudden, these folks showed
(28:55):
up in my life.
They're taking me to radiationevery day, even though it's just
five minutes away, but I'm notgoing to schlep on the bus, you
know, and these are friends ofmy sister when she used to live
here and I just got instantcommunity and it's Spain, so
everyone's like everyone'shugging.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
you like instantly spain.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
So everyone's like, everyone's hugging you, like
instantly, um.
But I, as a friend told methese.
He said you had to leave inorder to save your life and of
course my health care isaffordable.
Um, but you know, I didn'tleave the us so I could get
cheap health insurance.
That wasn't it.
Of course, I knew that would bea benefit, but I didn't know
that I would have cancer.
And here we are.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
How long after you left the United States did your
diagnosis arrive, so I left.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
January 9th and I got the diagnosis in mid-June.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Really so.
This is a new diagnosis.
How did you find out?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Well, my gastroenterologist looked at my
biopsy and said you have cancer.
You know what I did right after?
I went and bought a chocolatebar Good for you.
I didn't eat it at the moment,but I did eat some ice cream and
I walked like two miles on theBay of Santander and just took
(30:24):
it all in.
What else could I do?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You said that your experience with your parents
uniquely prepared you for thisdiagnosis, for where you are
right now, in what way.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Well confronting medicine like that right.
Not that I became an expert onmedicine, but the ins and outs
of what is required for apatient to receive care.
I'm not talking about the IV,oh, by the way.
This is from the hospital whenthey pinched me.
(31:04):
But the, the, the emotionalinfrastructure, right, what?
What would I have given to themthat I need now?
And I'm not afraid to ask forhelp, although there's that
little voice in my head I don'tknow if it's my American side or
you're an independent womanside- I'm not afraid to ask for
(31:25):
help.
And yet this little voice justswoops in and I tell it because
now is the time to receive.
And I mean, just take it.
Just take it, and you know whatTomorrow I'm going to give and
I have given.
So it's living this economy ofgrace right.
(31:49):
And then also understandingthat I am not.
You know, I've got all myfaculties about me.
Thankfully I do not haveAlzheimer's.
I may feel like crap one day,but I'm coming into this
(32:15):
physically strong.
I was already eating healthy.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I was not depressed.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
I was in a place that I came to because I wanted to,
out of love, out of wanting toexplore my history, and I think
that makes a big differencethough, that to have experienced
the death of my parents in thatway, and then just say, well,
(32:43):
now it's my turn to seize theday.
You know, my brother passedaway two years ago.
He was in his 60s.
He had a dream to come here andhe died very suddenly from this
respiratory disease.
He was also very strong and andhe never made it.
So I said you know what I'mgoing to go and here I am Good
(33:07):
for you.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So what advice would you give to our listeners about
seizing the day, about takingadvantage of each day in front
of them?
You've had some surprising newsnews you weren't expecting and
(33:29):
you are in the process of goingafter the moments that matter
right in front of you, and stilllife continues to happen around
you well, um, the first thingthat comes to mind is that the
idea is that we're never done,and if you believe certain
(33:51):
things, you you're not even doneafter you die.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
You know we're always healing, and so I may.
Oh, let's say that I'm going tosurvive this.
Of course I am.
Um, something else might killme, but maybe not this, and
there might be another challenge, um, after that, but it's all
part of a continual healingspectrum, right?
(34:14):
Uh, I don't want to have cancer, but I'm almost not surprised
because there's so much that wehold here in this center that
I've carried so much grief mywhole life, you know.
If you want to talk about itenergetically, uh, that is is.
Is it's talking to me, like Idecided.
(34:36):
I mean, I do use a particularhashtag that has an expletive in
it, but I don't have a problemwith expletives if you would
like to share Cancer.
But that's more for socialmedia reason.
But I am not antagonizing mybody.
I talk to my tumor.
I haven't named it yet, butwhat do you want?
(34:59):
What do you need?
What, what stories are youtrying to tell me?
Um, how can I help you heal?
How can I help you heal?
It's time for you to go.
What does my inner child want?
Let's let's talk about itinstead of being afraid about it
.
It is part of me, it is and andI want to nurture my entire
(35:20):
body, my mind and soul.
You know, it's, it's um, it'sall integrated, and so the other
thing that helps me getmotivated is to be fully present
in the moment, all the time.
I mean, I already kind of livedlike that right really live like
(35:44):
that now, and also the factthat, well, I'm nauseated now,
but that is a symptom.
I am not the symptom, right.
That is chemistry, you know.
You're not always nauseated,right, and in those moments when
I feel good, I just stop and go, like I saw this sun shower the
(36:06):
other day in this valley and Isaid, all right, I'm really in
love with this moment.
This is so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I love that you do that.
I do that too.
I love that you do that.
I do that too.
I, I do.
You find that I'm 52, we'reonly a few years apart.
Do you find that you do thatmore now than you used to?
Do you find that that is afunction of age and wisdom and
having witnessed life, or haveyou always been that way?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I've always, I've always been a child in awe, and
I hope she never goes away.
My life got in the way of herand I, and, and, and well, I
will tell you, I mean, menopausewas the best thing that ever
happened to me.
But in addition to the physicalchanges, that I most welcome,
(37:02):
actually, it's the ability tostill be in your prime, because
this isn't our grandmother'smenopause, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
No, it's not.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
And still be filled with curiosity and wonder and,
you know, still be sassy andsexy and funny.
And my parishioner friend wasright your life does not start
until you're 50.
Because now your creativeenergy is towards the world
Pouring forth you're moreexpletive, but it's I call it
(37:39):
the great age of not givingfucks, except for the things
that really matter, reallymatter.
I have nothing left to give,but you still have some more of
those.
But for the right things,you're discerning, absolutely
you're.
You're curating those f's thatyou're giving out.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I.
I couldn't possibly agree more.
Those are.
I have found that my flocks togive are very specific now.
They no longer are directed tothe things that do not matter
they.
My boundaries, are clear.
I am very specific about whereI put my energy, because I know
(38:19):
what I want to grow.
I know where I am no longergiving out to the wrong people,
the wrong things.
I am far more protective ofmyself, in a way that I never
used to be.
I poured forth giving to anyoneand everyone and while I still
(38:45):
consider myself a giver, I amfar more protective of that
energy because I've learned.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I have learned.
Isn't that a?
Speaker 2 (38:54):
great place to be.
It is.
And I didn't get there until Iwas, you know.
I thought that that wasstarting to happen in my forties
and I thought, yeah, like this,this life doesn't happen until
forties.
And I interviewed a girlfriendof mine a few weeks ago and
she's in her early forties andyou know she's had a lot happen.
(39:16):
And she said you know 40s, andyou know she's had a lot happen.
And she said you know these.
She was talking about how thisnext life is her best life.
Right, and I feel that evenmore so now in my 50s than I did
in my 40s, and it feels verymuch that you are the same.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yes, hashtag fab over 50.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, yeah, there you go everything there you go and
I'm inspired.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
You know there's a lot of women um silver women on
social media now also justflaunting it.
You know you start weighttraining when you're in your 60s
.
They're looking beautiful andand spunky.
You know iris apple was myspirit animal.
I mean, just live it up I lovethat.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
It's so delightful to have you on here.
What do you think is, how wouldyou define hope?
Speaker 1 (40:14):
well, hope definitely comes to visit, but and it's
knocking on your door.
Sometimes that knock is alittle rap and sometimes it's
pounding, but you have to openthe door, and I talked to some
people.
I wrote a post on Facebook theother day about locating your
(40:36):
faith, which is like hope, andsomeone wrote to me privately
and said I can't locate my faith.
I said are you sure?
No, I just want to smoke acigarette when I feel, or
something.
There's always something andthis is the addict in me talking
(40:58):
that got in the way of the purehope or the pure faith that I
believe is our spiritualbirthright for everyone.
And now that I look back on mylife, I was dimming my own light
, I was muddying up myconnection to the diviner or my
(41:20):
God of my understanding Right,and so, even in my darkest
moment, it was like this tiny,little, microscopic kernel of
hope that somehow pulled methrough, and I never forget that
.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I love that.
I love that I found that therewas one period of my life where
I couldn't see it, and it was ata time when I I had I was
working on this podcast, and atthat time I thought, who am I to
(42:02):
be doing a podcast on hope If Ihave finally reached a place
where I can't even see it?
I can't feel it.
I I've always been someone whocan, who can see the light, even
if I don't know how to getthere, and I realized that I had
to go through that darkness inorder to come out on the other
(42:22):
side, to be able to do thispodcast, and I'm so.
I get to be grateful for thatpiece of my journey as well,
because without each and everypiece of my journey, I'm not the
version of myself that I amright now, and I'm grateful for
(42:44):
who I am right now.
It's a it's, but without thetough and the hard, we don't
recognize the glorious and thejoyful and the beautiful.
(43:07):
If everything felt amazing,amazing would eventually feel
dull and beige.
If everything didn't have, ifeverything was just a, an
average color, the brightwouldn't be so vivid.
So I though it doesn't alwayshappen during the difficult
(43:33):
times I get to be grateful forthem afterwards.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
So yeah, I absolutely , and I think that hope is a
muscle you train so that thenext time you fall into the pit
of despair, you've got a littlemore of a rope to pull you up.
I'm very inspired by the storyof St John of the Cross, the
(43:58):
great Christian contemplative,and he was literally in a dark
pit when he wrote his book, andso I think of him down there and
how, in some way, being in thatdarkness just reinforced his
faith and I.
How, in some way, being in thatdarkness just reinforces faith,
(44:23):
and I sometimes I'm not sittinghere with rose-colored glasses-
and let's say, like I getdepressed about something four
weeks from now, but I can dealwith it Right, because I've
already developed the musclememory for hope, or the
spiritual muscle memory for hopeand to remember that we've had
good times and that we'veovercome them Right.
(44:48):
And that's got to come fromhere, that faith in yourself and
to ask for help.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
You are an inspiration.
I am so grateful to have hadthis conversation with you.
Where can people find you?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Well, my website is heartcenteredmariacom, and on
there they will find links to mynewsletter, my social media.
I'm pretty much heartcenteredMaria all over the place.
Okay, and that's a good placeto start.
I haven't updated the websitein a while.
(45:25):
It doesn't talk about me movingto Spain yet, but at least it
has links to everything.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
And I'm also in our show notes.
We'll be sharing, or haveshared, your GoFundMe page where
people can can supporteverything you've got going on
right now with your cancerjourney, so we definitely want
to make sure that we're helpingas much as we can with with that
.
Is there anything that you'dlike to share, perhaps your poem
(45:59):
, before we go?
Speaker 1 (46:01):
uh sure, if you'll give me just a moment.
I'm honored to be able to readthis.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I'm honored that you're willing.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It's called Spoonfuls .
Hmm, she squirts dish soapinstead of oil into the frying
pan.
Soon enough, no more cooking.
Soon enough, spoon feeding.
Soon enough, spoon feeding.
Soon enough, no more swallowing.
(46:43):
Soon enough, no more water.
Soon enough, last breath, deathdoes not come soon enough.
Death does not come soon enough, beating my mother ever so
(47:09):
slowly.
Alzheimer's swallows her memory, gulping her straight into the
dark Half an hour to eat eightounces of puree, spoonful by
spoonful.
She once fed me, nourishing herlittle bundle of joy, spoonful
by spoonful.
And now my impatience, somundane and so greedy.
(47:31):
It ticks away.
But infinity marks time.
In these quiet moments of love,applesauce upchuck, soiled bibs
, I become a mother to my motherand life serves me.
46 years, a long gestationmeasured by thousands of meals
(47:57):
we never share between my firstspoonful and my mother's last.
Death does come soon enough.
And, mother, you told me somany stories, but never the one
about the entire meaning of lifecontained in the final spoonful
(48:18):
.
Now the bowl is empty.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
And these are its pages.
Oh Maria, that was beautiful,thank you.
Thank you so much for honoringus with that.
Your mother and your fatherwere both so incredibly lucky to
(48:47):
have had you taking care ofthem, and I'm lucky that you
spent time with me today.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
I feel so blessed to have spent time with you and to
share my story.
I'm very, very grateful, thankyou.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Thank you and I'm wishing you all the heart,
health and happiness, and I'mgoing to have to come visit you
in Spain.
Oh, yes, please.
Thank you for being here and,friends, thank you so much for
joining us on Hope Comes toVisit.
I hope that we have met youwhere you are today and that you
(49:29):
have felt the light of Maria'sstory and that you will turn
around and share it with thepeople you know and you love,
and that you will take time tosubscribe and spend some more
time with us in the coming weeks.
Until then, take good care ofyou.
Thank you for being here.
Naturally, it's important tothank the people who support and
(49:52):
sponsor the podcast.
This episode is supported byChris Dulley, a trusted criminal
defense attorney and friend ofmine here in St Louis, who
believes in second chances andsolid representation.
Whether you're facing a DWI,felony or traffic issue, chris
handles your case personallywith clarity, compassion and
over 15 years of experience.
When things feel uncertain, ithelps to have someone steady in
(50:15):
your corner.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP or you can visit
dullylawfirmcom to schedule yourfree consultation.
Menopause was the best thing that ever happened to
me.
But in addition to the physicalchanges, that I most welcome
actually, it's the ability tostill be in your prime, because
this isn't our grandmother'smenopause, you know no, it's not
and still be filled withcuriosity and wonder and, you
(00:25):
know, still be sassy and sexyand funny.
And my parishioner friend wasright your life does not start
until you're 50.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Welcome to Hope Comes to Visit a place for soft
landings, soul, truth and theunedited middle.
I'm Danielle Elliott Smith andtoday's episode is an invitation
into a tender, transformativeconversation with a beautiful
soul.
Maria de los Angeles is anaward-winning writer and
journalist.
She is also the publisher ofthe Heart Centered Living
(01:11):
newsletter, a curated collectionof news stories, resources and
delightful curiosities thatinspire action and contemplation
.
A monthly newsletter, heartCentered Living, opens the door
to a wide range of topics forthe practical mystic or anyone
longing for groundedspirituality.
Born in Puerto Rico, to Cubanrefugees, maria was raised in
South Florida and lived inWashington DC before leaving the
US in January 2025.
She is currently writing a newlife chapter in her ancestral
(01:32):
homeland, northern Spain.
Let's take a quick moment tothank the people that support
and sponsor the podcast.
When life takes an unexpectedturn, you deserve someone who
will stand beside you.
St Louis attorney Chris Jeyoffers experienced one-on-one
legal defense.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP, or you can visit
(01:55):
DulleyLawFirmcom that'sD-U-L-L-E-LawFirmcom for a free
consultation.
Maria, thank you so much forbeing here.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
It's such a delight to be here with you today.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I am so excited to dive into your story because
there are so many pieces of itthat I truly believe are going
to resonate with our audience.
So I want to start one of thethings when you, when you and I
were first messaging and writingback and forth, I know that one
(02:31):
of the pieces that firstconnected with me was that you
were, that you have, that youtook care of your, your parents.
Um just moved my dad fromFlorida to the St Louis area,
and I am in that stage whereI've stopped having to actively
(02:57):
take care of young children andam now making sure that that my
dad is okay.
You mentioned that your parentshad Alzheimer's.
Yes, let's talk a little bitabout that piece of your journey
.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Well, I like to say that it was the most beautiful
and hardest thing I would everdo in my life.
Of course, now I have a cancerdiagnosis, so life is upping the
challenge, but I can tell youthis and I promise to get back
to that later that that preparedme for today.
And why?
(03:35):
Because it really wasincredibly humbling to change
your parents' diapers.
Humbling to change yourparents' diapers and to confront
death and to see the life cyclecome to an end.
It was really really scary atthe time, but it broke open my
(03:58):
heart in such a way to let somuch love in, which is something
that I hadn't experiencedbefore to let so much love in,
which is something that I hadn'texperienced before Now.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
we mentioned in the intro that your parents were
Cuban refugees, right so wherewere you raised?
I was raised in Miami, in SouthFlorida, in the exile community
of Cuba?
Okay, and so your parents?
How long ago was it that youwere taking care of them?
And they both had Alzheimer's.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Well, they were on the spectrum of memory disorder.
So my mom had full blownAlzheimer's, my father had
vascular dementia, and I justsometimes say Alzheimer's for
simplicity.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Of course.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Different types of memory loss, different types of
bodily loss function, et cetera,different needs, and so that
was around the mid-aughts to2017 or so.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Okay, and so you took care of both of them.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yes For the most part .
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yes For the most part yes, I know that my grandmother
had Alzheimer's and that was myfirst encounter with it and it
was interesting to me to watchher.
Revert was the best way I coulddescribe it.
She went from.
(05:27):
She would lose her most recentmemories, like the first thing
she forgot was that I had kids,and then she forgot that I was
married and then she lost mybrother and I, and then my dad
was in her mind a young man andthen a toddler Did that.
Was that experience similar foryou?
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yes, and there was one pivotal moment which had to
do more with the present.
I wrote a poem about this themoment where my mom put dish
soap into the frying pan insteadof oil, really, and that
changed everything.
And then in this poem I talkabout what it was like to feed
(06:06):
her and she could no longer feedherself and I became a mother
to my mother, and then she wasnonverbal.
The points of nonrecognitionwhen they did happen, at least
my parents weren't aggressive,they wouldn't sum down, which is
another thing that I'm gratefulfor.
(06:28):
But it really brought to mindhow we take story for granted
and how our memories shape whowe are and how it all just
dissipates.
It's that scaffolding of lifethat suddenly goes away, and
imagine how bewildering that is.
What a beautiful phrase.
Scaffolding of life thatsuddenly goes away, and imagine
how bewildering that is.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
What a beautiful phrase scaffolding of life.
I don't know if you have thepoem handy or if you're willing
to share it, but I'm always,always open to Maybe towards the
end.
Okay, absolutely, I'm alwaysopen to that level of
storytelling and beauty.
Storytelling and beauty what?
How would you describe thatexperience of taking care of
(07:08):
your, your parents?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I'm not gonna lie, it sucked and I hated it and I
loved it at the same time ReallyBoth things.
And you can do hard things thatI never thought I could do.
Now I didn't have kids, but Iended up having my parents and
so I had to improvise.
Nobody teaches you this right.
(07:31):
When you have a baby, youprepare for nine months and you
read the books and you get ababy shower.
Nobody does that for thecaregiver the adult caregiver of
elderly parents, and so Ibecame the medical manager.
I mean, it started verygradually like take them to
doctor's appointments, but thenI had to advocate and take notes
(07:53):
.
Managing their pills, whichchanged dosage constantly, was a
part time job, I kid you not.
I practically lived at CVS.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I can't even imagine.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yes, and hearing the music was very triggering.
Years later, when I had to dothat, I said I forgot about this
.
It sounded like Liberace.
It was really off brand, butanyway it's what you hear in
your nightmares.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
now, cvs is hold music.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
And all the hospitalizations and triages.
I mean, my nervous system wasconstantly up here, I had
adrenal, my adrenals were justflying around and that went on
for a few years and I broke thenumber one rule of caregiving,
which is take care of yourselffirst.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I just didn't know better.
Okay, so is.
Was there anyone around toremind you to take care of you,
or did you feel isolated?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I did feel somewhat isolated.
I did have friends who did likewould go grocery shopping for
me.
My sisters would come insometimes and help, but I was
largely in charge of a lot ofthis day-to-day stuff that can
be very onerous.
It's like being a single mom.
I'm not saying they didn't help, that's not fair to say but I
(09:18):
was micromanaging everything andmicro-advocating everything.
Especially with senior care inthe US I learned some really
ugly things about the systemover there that made me ashamed
to be human and the things thatI saw in nursing homes and the
lack of regulation or too muchregulation.
(09:38):
I mean it was horrifying that Idescribed it as a house of
horrors to see elderly peopleabandoned like that.
Just um, but I I mean I didhave some support.
I also didn't know what to askfor.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
That's a really important point.
So is there a recommendationthat you would make?
So if someone is going throughthis right now, if I am heading
in that direction now, what do Iask for?
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Well, you know, now there's many more resources.
I think it also kind of blew upwhen I first started.
I think it was caregivingorg onTwitter.
You know that was sending outstuff, and now there's many more
caregiver resources websites.
There's more awareness.
(10:36):
And I think my biggest piece ofadvice is if you have parents
and this is not a fun thing tosay, but you can't abort your
parents.
You can't not have parents, Imean, unless you break up with
them, you know.
And so families really need toplan early on what it's going to
(10:57):
be like later for a worst casescenario.
If it doesn't happen, great,but who's going to commit to
taking them to the doctor?
It's family planning, but it'snot about having babies.
So, preparing ahead of time,downsizing your parents' home,
moving them close to you if youneed to, taking dad's car keys
(11:19):
away, I mean all of these thingsyou have to prepare for, and
I'm not saying you'll be readywhen you get there, but at least
you'll know they're coming.
And then you know there's more.
I can't name them specificallyright now but, for example,
alzheimersorg, caregiverorg,your local state or local
(11:48):
government Actually there is todate that I know of they will
pay adult children to take careof their parents.
There's just some paperworkinvolved, which.
I didn't know about at the time.
I didn't know if Florida hadthat.
That would have been reallyhelpful because I had to put my
life on hold.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
That's really interesting.
That feels like something thateither I should be researching
now or that we should certainlyrecommend.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And long-term health care insurance for whatever
Medicare or Medicaid won't coverfor the nursing homes, which
are ridiculous, very expensive.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Very, very, very expensive.
Yes, that is.
It's very valuable advice.
And so you're talking about allthe logistic, all the technical
.
Let's talk about the heart sideof this, right, because this is
.
I have witnessed a few friendsrecently losing parents to
(12:46):
Alzheimer's, and the few friendsthat I've actually seen going
through this happen to bewriters, and they've been
beautifully transparent aboutthe experience, and I can only
imagine what this does to yourheart, what this experience is
like on the inside.
(13:08):
How did you, how did you handleit?
How did you make sure that youwere OK?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I didn't handle it very well At the time.
I was so overwhelmed.
But you know, like a butterflyinside a cocoon, there was stuff
happening.
I just didn't see it then thatwhen I came out at the other end
, I was transformed and I people.
(13:39):
So how I handled it was justtaking care of the immediate
moment there was.
It seemed like there was alwayssomething to triage and that
was it.
That's all you can do in themiddle of a crisis.
You crash and burn later, right, but when I came out of it, I
realized that I was transforming.
(14:01):
I just didn't know it then.
And what ended up happening isthat, to let go of my parents, I
did this private ritual by thesea and I literally held their
ashes in my hand, and thatchanged me because, instead of
feeling fear, I felt the deepestlove I've ever known and my
(14:21):
fear just dissipated.
People ask me why I am notafraid now, and I said, well, I
already went through that and Imight be afraid five minutes
from now, but right now I'vealready experienced this
mystical thing that I wouldimagine.
It's like when a person has achild, right, that it's just so
(14:44):
beyond you and yet so incarnatedRight and to really, you know,
in life we're just so like, ohwow, yeah, I have this body and
this skin and hair and stuff,but there's the ashes too, and
you know, there's this whole.
I don't know, there's almost apoetry to that that if we lived
(15:09):
un-esthetized to that, if we'realways in denial, it's harder to
prepare for these things.
And I just thought of somethinglike the death cafe movement is
a really good one to get into,even if you don't want to become
(15:30):
a death doula.
Talk to some death doulas,because they train to help
families, not with the medicalstuff but with the emotional
stuff of letting go.
They help the patient and theyhelp the family and that's some
really, really wonderful work.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
So I am familiar with death doulas, but in case
members of our audience are not,will you allow you to explain
death doula so that anyone whois not familiar with what that
is?
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Sure, well, just like we have birth doulas comadres
in Spanish.
They're women who are notnecessarily obstetricians,
although in the olden times theywould have been helped actually
literally deliver the baby, onethat is departing the body, and
(16:22):
they come in and they evaluateyour family, your situation,
they'll create, uh, you know,projects or or tasks, or things
that you can do to give youemotional support, and they hold
your hand the whole way.
There's a certain process todying, even with the body, if
you're dying naturally, like howyour breathing changes.
(16:43):
So you don't panic and you see,like this is my, my person is
just passing, you know, passingthrough.
It's their time to go and ofcourse it's hard, but
information is power and it iscomforting.
You know, this is one time whenignorance may not be bliss um
(17:04):
for you to understand and alsoconfront your own mortality.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
It feels as though it it would allow the process to
be as peaceful as it possiblycould be.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yes, and it's a time I think I mean in certain faiths
.
You know, some people do pay alot of attention to this
transition time, but I think welive in a society where we're
just kind of trying to brush itunder and there should be I
think should be ritual.
A person's going to die a monthfrom now.
(17:40):
Well, that's a whole month tohonor and support that
transition versus trying to rushthrough it.
And you know, and also, ofcourse, grief.
I mean there's pre-bereavement,bereavement, post-bereavement.
I remember someone in my one ofmy grief groups, when someone
(18:01):
would ask her are you feelingbetter?
She would say it's not a cold,you know it's.
It's never going to go away,especially if the love was
really great.
So grief, I think griefeducation in our world is also
really, really key.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, it absolutely is.
I want to go back to somethingyou said, because it sounds to
me as though you mentionedritual, and I feel as though so
much of your path has beencentered around recognizing and
(18:39):
honoring ritual ritual, at leastfrom the time that you realized
that this painful process youwere going through with your
parents was almost designed todirect you.
You hold your parents' ashes,you honor their passing, and how
(19:02):
soon after that ritual andspiritual experience did you
decide to leave Miami?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So my father passed away January 26 and I left on
resurrection Sunday thefollowing April.
Really the appropriate day tostart your life over.
I went to a service on the seaat sunrise and I remember a
fellow parishioner telling me,after I shared my journey with
(19:38):
her.
I was 49 at the time and shesaid, hon, your life won't start
until you're 50, just go, justgo.
And she was right.
And here I am seven years laterum, and how soon.
I mean.
I was coming off of thisintense, economically fraught,
(20:00):
obviously grief-ridden.
What the experience.
And to decompress, I do thenormal crazy thing I do.
I just got on a Greyhound buswith no plan and I visited
friends who opened their homesto me so I could grieve and
spend some time with them.
They were familiar with myjourney.
(20:22):
And nine months later I got ajob in Washington DC, but I had
no plan.
And that was fate, providence,god, higher power, whatever you
want to call it, but I had faithand I knew that I had to leave,
that I had nothing to anchor methere anymore.
It was time for me to fledge,as it were, and that my parents
(20:47):
would have wanted that to justgo.
And now I'm in Spain, which wasa lifelong dream as well to be
closer to my roots.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I love that.
So what has that journey beenlike for you?
Because you mentioned that thechallenges and the pain that you
faced with your parents haveuniquely prepared you for today,
for where you are now.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Well, let's not forget that in between all of
that, I got sober.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Ah, yes, welcome.
So you and I have that incommon, so congratulations, of
course.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
And so when you go through this caregiving process
and then you go through thecaregiving of yourself getting
sober process, I'm not going tosay cancer is a piece of cake,
of course not.
But I've been through somestuff and right, absolutely and,
honestly, when I relapsed, Ireally thought I was going to
die for real this time with this, not so much because I have
(21:53):
care, I care for myself and Ihave faith in my higher power,
and I have my practices and Ilive the program.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
So, so you mentioned relapsing.
So you, at what point were youinitially sober that you
relapsed in 2021?
Yes, yeah, so at what pointwere you initially sober?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
around the time I got to DC, like late 2017, okay,
covid that whole thing and thensome stuff happened.
And you then you just saywhat's one glass of wine?
Speaker 2 (22:29):
well, one glass of wine can can be 10.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
It's incredible how I just quickly sink way down
lower than you were before, andyou don't even want to.
And there you are.
So, but that said, I needed togo through that.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
To be where you are now, right.
Okay, so you relapse, and whatbrings you out of your relapse?
Speaker 1 (23:00):
The miracle of a scholarship to a wonderful
treatment center and going backto things Okay and reuniting
virtually with an old friend whobecame my sponsor.
And of course not, and andbringing in community, and I've
never looked back.
That's what I needed, though Ineeded the respite.
(23:23):
It wasn't just the relapse, itwas everything that led up to
that it's.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
It's interesting because I Because every story of
relapse that I have heard itneeded to happen right.
That was the piece that putthings together in order for
that new phase of sobriety toexist.
(23:52):
Sobriety to exist, it's it.
It equipped you to be where youare now.
It makes me wonder, had you nothad that relapse and you had
(24:21):
your cancer diagnosis, would yoube as strong as you are now?
Right, I have.
I spoke to a previous guest whois also a friend and and I had
said you know, I, I frequentlyhave said I believe that when we
go through recovery, we shouldbe exempt from hard things,
because we go through so much tofind ourselves on this side of
recovery and yet life stillhappens.
We still get cancer diagnosis,we still lose people and
(24:43):
experience extreme grief, westill lose jobs and our cars
break down and we take care ofelderly parents, and.
But we have to have learned howto feel and experience and live
.
And if we don't know how to dothose things, that's when we are
in danger of the relapse again,because that's what the
(25:05):
addiction is.
The addiction is I don't wantto feel, and so much of the
beauty of what I'm hearing inyou and your story is how you
are feeling, how you areactively living.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Tell me about your cancer diagnosis.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Well, if I may, just you can hold that thought for a
second, of course, because I dohave a newsletter on
spirituality which is very muchcombined with current affairs,
and I do do a lot of spiritualwork, and I studied with Eckhart
Tolle, you know, and I tookthese classes on mysticism at
Georgetown, you know auditingbecause I just love this stuff
(25:50):
and it makes me happy.
I'm curious I lived in awonderful city with an enormous
spiritual interfaith community.
most people don't think of dcsspiritual but it is um and but,
like I tell my sponsor and goback to the words scaffolding
for me, the 12 steps is thescaffolding of my life now all
(26:12):
that other stuff really helpsand I'm and like what you're
saying is that if we don't learnhow to live with this structure
and which, by the way, is I'velectured on, this is based on
the christ consciousness, butthat's a whole other story.
Um, it's hard and that's partof the of what helped me face
(26:38):
this cancer diagnosis.
Both things, um, and I continueto study and write about it,
and so the cancer diagnosis is Ihave esophageal cancer.
Okay, I have hopefully by nowsomewhat reduced 13 centimeter
tumor right here close to theheart center, and I'm undergoing
(27:03):
radiation and chemo.
This will be well.
I'm now in my second week ofeverything, or six more weeks.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Okay, I'm so grateful that you feel well enough to be
chatting with us, and you lookfantastic.
So how are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Well, I do also have a minor lung bronchial booboo.
I'm taking antibiotics.
We had to postpone the lastmeeting because I was coughing
so much.
But I'm feeling much better andfinally getting some sleep, and
of course, that helps.
I'm not able to go outside andwalk these beautiful hills
(27:50):
surrounding me here, okay, but Iwill as soon as I can breathe
better.
Um, I'm usually very active,but I just you know what this is
a couple of weeks of cocooning,um, and I just my priority is
to feel good and to feel joy,and when I don't feel so well
(28:11):
like I had some nausea earlierthis week, a lot of brain fog
and fatigue, it's, it's normal.
Then I just sit with that andit's it's not easy, but I, you
know, the antidote for me is tosupercharge my gratitude.
(28:31):
I mean constantly I'm groundingand I'm gratitude.
I mean constantly I'm groundingand I'm thanking, because I.
It's a long story about how Iended up at this hotel near the
hospital.
God worked in my favor, eventhough it was extremely
stressful to get here, and allof a sudden, these folks showed
(28:55):
up in my life.
They're taking me to radiationevery day, even though it's just
five minutes away, but I'm notgoing to schlep on the bus, you
know, and these are friends ofmy sister when she used to live
here and I just got instantcommunity and it's Spain, so
everyone's like everyone'shugging.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
you like instantly spain.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
So everyone's like, everyone's hugging you, like
instantly, um.
But I, as a friend told methese.
He said you had to leave inorder to save your life and of
course my health care isaffordable.
Um, but you know, I didn'tleave the us so I could get
cheap health insurance.
That wasn't it.
Of course, I knew that would bea benefit, but I didn't know
that I would have cancer.
And here we are.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
How long after you left the United States did your
diagnosis arrive, so I left.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
January 9th and I got the diagnosis in mid-June.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Really so.
This is a new diagnosis.
How did you find out?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Well, my gastroenterologist looked at my
biopsy and said you have cancer.
You know what I did right after?
I went and bought a chocolatebar Good for you.
I didn't eat it at the moment,but I did eat some ice cream and
I walked like two miles on theBay of Santander and just took
(30:24):
it all in.
What else could I do?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You said that your experience with your parents
uniquely prepared you for thisdiagnosis, for where you are
right now, in what way.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Well confronting medicine like that right.
Not that I became an expert onmedicine, but the ins and outs
of what is required for apatient to receive care.
I'm not talking about the IV,oh, by the way.
This is from the hospital whenthey pinched me.
(31:04):
But the, the, the emotionalinfrastructure, right, what?
What would I have given to themthat I need now?
And I'm not afraid to ask forhelp, although there's that
little voice in my head I don'tknow if it's my American side or
you're an independent womanside- I'm not afraid to ask for
(31:25):
help.
And yet this little voice justswoops in and I tell it because
now is the time to receive.
And I mean, just take it.
Just take it, and you know whatTomorrow I'm going to give and
I have given.
So it's living this economy ofgrace right.
(31:49):
And then also understandingthat I am not.
You know, I've got all myfaculties about me.
Thankfully I do not haveAlzheimer's.
I may feel like crap one day,but I'm coming into this
(32:15):
physically strong.
I was already eating healthy.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
I was not depressed.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
I was in a place that I came to because I wanted to,
out of love, out of wanting toexplore my history, and I think
that makes a big differencethough, that to have experienced
the death of my parents in thatway, and then just say, well,
(32:43):
now it's my turn to seize theday.
You know, my brother passedaway two years ago.
He was in his 60s.
He had a dream to come here andhe died very suddenly from this
respiratory disease.
He was also very strong and andhe never made it.
So I said you know what I'mgoing to go and here I am Good
(33:07):
for you.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So what advice would you give to our listeners about
seizing the day, about takingadvantage of each day in front
of them?
You've had some surprising newsnews you weren't expecting and
(33:29):
you are in the process of goingafter the moments that matter
right in front of you, and stilllife continues to happen around
you well, um, the first thingthat comes to mind is that the
idea is that we're never done,and if you believe certain
(33:51):
things, you you're not even doneafter you die.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
You know we're always healing, and so I may.
Oh, let's say that I'm going tosurvive this.
Of course I am.
Um, something else might killme, but maybe not this, and
there might be another challenge, um, after that, but it's all
part of a continual healingspectrum, right?
(34:14):
Uh, I don't want to have cancer, but I'm almost not surprised
because there's so much that wehold here in this center that
I've carried so much grief mywhole life, you know.
If you want to talk about itenergetically, uh, that is is.
Is it's talking to me, like Idecided.
(34:36):
I mean, I do use a particularhashtag that has an expletive in
it, but I don't have a problemwith expletives if you would
like to share Cancer.
But that's more for socialmedia reason.
But I am not antagonizing mybody.
I talk to my tumor.
I haven't named it yet, butwhat do you want?
(34:59):
What do you need?
What, what stories are youtrying to tell me?
Um, how can I help you heal?
How can I help you heal?
It's time for you to go.
What does my inner child want?
Let's let's talk about itinstead of being afraid about it
.
It is part of me, it is and andI want to nurture my entire
(35:20):
body, my mind and soul.
You know, it's, it's um, it'sall integrated, and so the other
thing that helps me getmotivated is to be fully present
in the moment, all the time.
I mean, I already kind of livedlike that right really live like
(35:44):
that now, and also the factthat, well, I'm nauseated now,
but that is a symptom.
I am not the symptom, right.
That is chemistry, you know.
You're not always nauseated,right, and in those moments when
I feel good, I just stop and go, like I saw this sun shower the
(36:06):
other day in this valley and Isaid, all right, I'm really in
love with this moment.
This is so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I love that you do that.
I do that too.
I love that you do that.
I do that too.
I, I do.
You find that I'm 52, we'reonly a few years apart.
Do you find that you do thatmore now than you used to?
Do you find that that is afunction of age and wisdom and
having witnessed life, or haveyou always been that way?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I've always, I've always been a child in awe, and
I hope she never goes away.
My life got in the way of herand I, and, and, and well, I
will tell you, I mean, menopausewas the best thing that ever
happened to me.
But in addition to the physicalchanges, that I most welcome,
(37:02):
actually, it's the ability tostill be in your prime, because
this isn't our grandmother'smenopause, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
No, it's not.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
And still be filled with curiosity and wonder and,
you know, still be sassy andsexy and funny.
And my parishioner friend wasright your life does not start
until you're 50.
Because now your creativeenergy is towards the world
Pouring forth you're moreexpletive, but it's I call it
(37:39):
the great age of not givingfucks, except for the things
that really matter, reallymatter.
I have nothing left to give,but you still have some more of
those.
But for the right things,you're discerning, absolutely
you're.
You're curating those f's thatyou're giving out.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I.
I couldn't possibly agree more.
Those are.
I have found that my flocks togive are very specific now.
They no longer are directed tothe things that do not matter
they.
My boundaries, are clear.
I am very specific about whereI put my energy, because I know
(38:19):
what I want to grow.
I know where I am no longergiving out to the wrong people,
the wrong things.
I am far more protective ofmyself, in a way that I never
used to be.
I poured forth giving to anyoneand everyone and while I still
(38:45):
consider myself a giver, I amfar more protective of that
energy because I've learned.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I have learned.
Isn't that a?
Speaker 2 (38:54):
great place to be.
It is.
And I didn't get there until Iwas, you know.
I thought that that wasstarting to happen in my forties
and I thought, yeah, like this,this life doesn't happen until
forties.
And I interviewed a girlfriendof mine a few weeks ago and
she's in her early forties andyou know she's had a lot happen.
(39:16):
And she said you know 40s, andyou know she's had a lot happen.
And she said you know these.
She was talking about how thisnext life is her best life.
Right, and I feel that evenmore so now in my 50s than I did
in my 40s, and it feels verymuch that you are the same.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yes, hashtag fab over 50.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, yeah, there you go everything there you go and
I'm inspired.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
You know there's a lot of women um silver women on
social media now also justflaunting it.
You know you start weighttraining when you're in your 60s
.
They're looking beautiful andand spunky.
You know iris apple was myspirit animal.
I mean, just live it up I lovethat.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
It's so delightful to have you on here.
What do you think is, how wouldyou define hope?
Speaker 1 (40:14):
well, hope definitely comes to visit, but and it's
knocking on your door.
Sometimes that knock is alittle rap and sometimes it's
pounding, but you have to openthe door, and I talked to some
people.
I wrote a post on Facebook theother day about locating your
(40:36):
faith, which is like hope, andsomeone wrote to me privately
and said I can't locate my faith.
I said are you sure?
No, I just want to smoke acigarette when I feel, or
something.
There's always something andthis is the addict in me talking
(40:58):
that got in the way of the purehope or the pure faith that I
believe is our spiritualbirthright for everyone.
And now that I look back on mylife, I was dimming my own light
, I was muddying up myconnection to the diviner or my
(41:20):
God of my understanding Right,and so, even in my darkest
moment, it was like this tiny,little, microscopic kernel of
hope that somehow pulled methrough, and I never forget that
.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I love that.
I love that I found that therewas one period of my life where
I couldn't see it, and it was ata time when I I had I was
working on this podcast, and atthat time I thought, who am I to
(42:02):
be doing a podcast on hope If Ihave finally reached a place
where I can't even see it?
I can't feel it.
I I've always been someone whocan, who can see the light, even
if I don't know how to getthere, and I realized that I had
to go through that darkness inorder to come out on the other
(42:22):
side, to be able to do thispodcast, and I'm so.
I get to be grateful for thatpiece of my journey as well,
because without each and everypiece of my journey, I'm not the
version of myself that I amright now, and I'm grateful for
(42:44):
who I am right now.
It's a it's, but without thetough and the hard, we don't
recognize the glorious and thejoyful and the beautiful.
(43:07):
If everything felt amazing,amazing would eventually feel
dull and beige.
If everything didn't have, ifeverything was just a, an
average color, the brightwouldn't be so vivid.
So I though it doesn't alwayshappen during the difficult
(43:33):
times I get to be grateful forthem afterwards.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
So yeah, I absolutely , and I think that hope is a
muscle you train so that thenext time you fall into the pit
of despair, you've got a littlemore of a rope to pull you up.
I'm very inspired by the storyof St John of the Cross, the
(43:58):
great Christian contemplative,and he was literally in a dark
pit when he wrote his book, andso I think of him down there and
how, in some way, being in thatdarkness just reinforced his
faith and I.
How, in some way, being in thatdarkness just reinforces faith,
(44:23):
and I sometimes I'm not sittinghere with rose-colored glasses-
and let's say, like I getdepressed about something four
weeks from now, but I can dealwith it Right, because I've
already developed the musclememory for hope, or the
spiritual muscle memory for hopeand to remember that we've had
good times and that we'veovercome them Right.
(44:48):
And that's got to come fromhere, that faith in yourself and
to ask for help.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
You are an inspiration.
I am so grateful to have hadthis conversation with you.
Where can people find you?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Well, my website is heartcenteredmariacom, and on
there they will find links to mynewsletter, my social media.
I'm pretty much heartcenteredMaria all over the place.
Okay, and that's a good placeto start.
I haven't updated the websitein a while.
(45:25):
It doesn't talk about me movingto Spain yet, but at least it
has links to everything.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
And I'm also in our show notes.
We'll be sharing, or haveshared, your GoFundMe page where
people can can supporteverything you've got going on
right now with your cancerjourney, so we definitely want
to make sure that we're helpingas much as we can with with that
.
Is there anything that you'dlike to share, perhaps your poem
(45:59):
, before we go?
Speaker 1 (46:01):
uh sure, if you'll give me just a moment.
I'm honored to be able to readthis.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
I'm honored that you're willing.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
It's called Spoonfuls .
Hmm, she squirts dish soapinstead of oil into the frying
pan.
Soon enough, no more cooking.
Soon enough, spoon feeding.
Soon enough, spoon feeding.
Soon enough, no more swallowing.
(46:43):
Soon enough, no more water.
Soon enough, last breath, deathdoes not come soon enough.
Death does not come soon enough, beating my mother ever so
(47:09):
slowly.
Alzheimer's swallows her memory, gulping her straight into the
dark Half an hour to eat eightounces of puree, spoonful by
spoonful.
She once fed me, nourishing herlittle bundle of joy, spoonful
by spoonful.
And now my impatience, somundane and so greedy.
(47:31):
It ticks away.
But infinity marks time.
In these quiet moments of love,applesauce upchuck, soiled bibs
, I become a mother to my motherand life serves me.
46 years, a long gestationmeasured by thousands of meals
(47:57):
we never share between my firstspoonful and my mother's last.
Death does come soon enough.
And, mother, you told me somany stories, but never the one
about the entire meaning of lifecontained in the final spoonful
(48:18):
.
Now the bowl is empty.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
And these are its pages.
Oh Maria, that was beautiful,thank you.
Thank you so much for honoringus with that.
Your mother and your fatherwere both so incredibly lucky to
(48:47):
have had you taking care ofthem, and I'm lucky that you
spent time with me today.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
I feel so blessed to have spent time with you and to
share my story.
I'm very, very grateful, thankyou.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Thank you and I'm wishing you all the heart,
health and happiness, and I'mgoing to have to come visit you
in Spain.
Oh, yes, please.
Thank you for being here and,friends, thank you so much for
joining us on Hope Comes toVisit.
I hope that we have met youwhere you are today and that you
(49:29):
have felt the light of Maria'sstory and that you will turn
around and share it with thepeople you know and you love,
and that you will take time tosubscribe and spend some more
time with us in the coming weeks.
Until then, take good care ofyou.
Thank you for being here.
Naturally, it's important tothank the people who support and
(49:52):
sponsor the podcast.
This episode is supported byChris Dulley, a trusted criminal
defense attorney and friend ofmine here in St Louis, who
believes in second chances andsolid representation.
Whether you're facing a DWI,felony or traffic issue, chris
handles your case personallywith clarity, compassion and
over 15 years of experience.
When things feel uncertain, ithelps to have someone steady in
(50:15):
your corner.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP or you can visit
dullylawfirmcom to schedule yourfree consultation.
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