August 15, 2025 • 42 mins
“You were the most chosen.”
These are the words Miranda Ward spoke to her son after he learned he was conceived through sexual assault. In this week’s episode of Hope Comes to Visit, Miranda shares her extraordinary journey from a moment of unthinkable violation to building a life defined by fierce love, protection, and healing.
With courage, strategy, and an unshakable belief in her intuition, Miranda navigated a system that was never designed to protect her — enduring years of legal battles and threats while raising her son as a solo parent. Today, she’s not only created a safe, loving home, but she’s also turned her experience into wisdom as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, helping others understand their own patterns of connection, disconnection, and healing.
This is a story about reclaiming power, reshaping destiny, and proving that love can transcend trauma.
Connect with Miranda via her Therapy Website: The Clarity Group
Thank you for listening to Hope Comes to Visit. If this episode resonated with you, please follow, rate, and share the show — it helps others find their way to these conversations.
New episodes drop every Monday and Friday, so you can begin and end your week with a little light and a lot of hope.
For more stories, reflections, and ways to connect, visit www.DanielleElliottSmith.com or follow along on Instagram @daniellesmithtv and @HopeComestoVisit
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My son was conceived by sexual assault and I knew the
individual.
We had had a datingrelationship in the past.
We no longer did at the timethat this event occurred and it
was a really traumaticinteraction.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
There are moments in life when everything falls apart
and somehow something sacredbegins On.
Hope Comes to Visit.
We share these stories ofunraveling and rebuilding, of
grief and grace, of finding thelight again.
I'm Danielle Elliott Smith andI'm so glad you're here.
My guest today understandsrebuilding and seeking to be a
(00:46):
light for others.
Miranda Ward is a licensedmarriage and family therapist.
She focuses her work on couplesand engaging through a modality
called emotionally focusedtherapy.
Emotionally focused therapyidentifies the cycles of
connection and disconnectioncouples and families experience.
While her work as a therapistis a large part of her identity,
(01:07):
her primary identity is that ofbeing a solo parent to her
17-year-old son.
The identity of being a soloparent has led her to the work
of systems and cycles withinfamilies and culture that
impacts all of us on a dailybasis.
Miranda is the co-owner of asmall therapy practice in Grand
Rapids, michigan, where herpractice focuses primarily on
(01:29):
couples and families, ontreating individuals through a
family systems lens.
Let's take a quick moment tothank the people that support
and sponsor the podcast.
When life takes an unexpectedturn, you deserve someone who
will stand beside you.
St Louis attorney Chris Jollyoffers experienced one-on-one
legal defense.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP.
(01:55):
Or you can visitDulleyLawFirmcom that's
D-U-L-L-E-LawFirmcom for a freeconsultation.
Miranda, I am so excited tohave you here.
Thank you for taking time withus.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to be hereand tell a bit of my story.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
When you first reached out and we were
communicating and I was readingthrough your story, one of the
first words that came to mindwas brave.
I think about so many of thestories that people share, and I
am always so impacted by howwilling people are to be
(02:41):
vulnerable and to offer theiropportunity to connect with
other people, and my hope isalways that the work we're doing
here, the stories that we'resharing, meets people where they
are, and that there will besomeone who's listening, who
says that's me.
I've been there, I've had thatmoment, I've been that scared,
(03:06):
I've been that lost and Ihaven't known how to move
forward.
And my hope is that that's oneof the things we're going to do
today that people will listen toyou and they will feel seen in
a way that they haven't before.
So, if you're willing, I wouldlove for people to hear your
(03:30):
story from you rather than fromme.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, I appreciate that and you know, when I
reached out and thought aboutsharing this story, I actually I
asked my son first, becausethey said you know, this is part
of your story too and I I justreally want to be respectful of
what that is and, um, he's areally, you know, he's a really
kind, sweet young man and he waslike mom this is.
(03:55):
So.
It's such an important storythat people need to hear it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I love that and being 17.
So I have a 19 and a21-year-old, and so I recognize
that age right.
That age is not always sure.
Mom tell my story, and I spenttime as a mom blogger, and so
there was a time when my kidswere like tell everything about
(04:19):
me, and then a time that theywere very clear on do not take
my picture.
So, oh, take my picture.
So, oh, yeah, Right, so his,his willingness to share is is
beautiful and vulnerable andbrave as well.
So, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So I kind of started there with him and then was and
then felt like, okay, I want totell this story.
I mean, he's 17,.
He's going to be 18 in a fewmonths, and so this is a story,
too, that I've had a lot ofhesitation to share, right,
because I want to be protectiveof him, but I've had to also be
really protective of us.
So my son was conceived bysexual assault, and I knew the
(04:58):
individual.
We had had a datingrelationship in the past.
We no longer did at the timethat this event occurred, and
and it was a really, it was areally traumatic interaction,
right, as for anyone whoexperiences sexual assault or
losing their bodily autonomy.
And so when I found that I waspregnant a number of weeks later
(05:21):
, I was like I can't do this.
I can't risk this person beingin our lives, I can't risk what
that would look like.
I was, oh my gosh, 24, 25 yearsold.
I was just starting my life.
I was working as a recreationaltherapist in residential
centers.
It was like play orientedtherapy, right.
And so then I, you know, Icalled the clinic.
(05:43):
I went to a clinic, and part ofthat process is sitting with a
counselor, right.
And so I kind of went through,you know, identity stories and I
went through what I wanted formy life and I went through this
whole conversation with thiswoman, which was, I think, the
work of abortion therapist isreally underlooked, right.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I it's.
It's funny that, as you'retalking about that, I'm thinking
that is a piece of that, thatdialogue that we have now around
abortion, pro-life, pro-choice,that people don't consider that
(06:27):
we, when we're diminishingwomen's bodily autonomy, we act
as though women just go abortioncheck box checked Like, sure,
give me one, I'll take another.
Thanks.
As compared to this consciousthought, like the thought
process and the ache and thefear and the conversations that
(06:48):
go into it, and especiallyconsidering what your pregnancy
experience was.
Yeah, this was not a.
Hey, I'd like to have a childwith this gentleman.
This was not a.
I'm married'd like to have achild with this gentleman.
This was not a.
I'm married and we're trying toconceive.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Right, and I think that that was such a pivotal
moment.
Right when I I went throughthat conversation, I went I'm
going to do this, I'm going tokeep this child.
There was something in my gutthat said, no, this is okay,
this is a path I'm going to take, this is a path I'm going to
take, and it was.
It was a strange pregnancy.
It really was.
It was, I would say it was justthe two of us.
At the point I had a littleJack Russell Terrier, so maybe
(07:30):
in a way, the three of us, right, right, what was your family
support like at the time?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
So, was there any?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
So my family, like growing up my family was really
complicated.
They were really kind ofchaotic group of individuals.
I had a sister that had had ababy at 15.
I had a brother who lived inresidential treatment and has
spent a lot of his life inincarceration.
So there was a lot of familydynamics.
And you know, my family justdoesn't always do complicated
(08:02):
things well.
So when I told my parents andalways do complicated things
well so when I told my parents,you know, my mom was like all
babies are blessings and my dadis I'll push you down the stairs
if you want.
So there was a really right.
So okay, so yes, so that kindof really added to this in my
(08:23):
mind at this point.
I started being that I'm on,I'm on my own.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah you are thinking Miranda's like this is a solo
journey, Got it.
This is a solo journey.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
In time, my son's father's family learned that I
was pregnant and they, thegrandmother, started reaching
out and really started kind ofpressing something.
She said we're going to beinvolved and I told her what had
happened.
It had been an assault, andI'll never forget the phone
conversation with her.
(08:51):
She said it doesn't matter, youguys belong to us now.
And that was a reallyterrifying moment for me because
I had spoken to an attorney atone point who informed me at
that point he lived in New Yorkand she said there was no
protection for children ofsexual assault or women of
sexual assault where a child isconceived in the state of New
(09:11):
York.
And there still isn't.
New York is one of, I think, 12states that there isn't that
protection?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
You read my mind.
That was going to be my nextquestion.
So there are states where thereis protection, but New York is
one of 12 where there is not.
Yes, and 12 might not be theaccurate number, but it's a
smaller number.
Isn't it?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, I'm surprised that New York is one of the ones
that is not.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
That honestly blew my mind.
When I spoke to this attorney,she said if you pursue charges
for sexual assault, it might bemore dangerous for you.
He might go away if you don'tpursue charges.
And so it was a really likewhere do I go, what do I do?
And so I just and again, I'mmid twenties, right, and I don't
(09:54):
have strong family support.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I was going to say and you're doing this alone,
okay, I'm doing it alone.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
So I'm just going, okay, I'm just doing this, and
the one vision I created, though, was that my son was always
going to know that he was loved,that he would know he was loved
, no different from a child fromany other family.
I took pictures of myself, likeof my belly, through the
pregnancy, and I created a, youknow, an adorable nursery, and I
had some friends that were likesupportive, and we had a baby
(10:20):
shower with like a smallgathering of us, and so I tried
so much to create this normalcy,but it felt like I was living
these two stories right.
I had the story, like, thetrauma of what was happening on
one side, and I had the story ofmothering starting on the other
.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
How are you taking care of yourself through the
traumatic piece of it?
Was there anything you weredoing in terms of therapy or or
seeking to honor that piece ofyou that had been assaulted?
You know that's a greatquestion.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I was a huge exerciser at that point.
I ran half marathons for fun,and so I continued to run during
that time period until aboutsix or seven months, when it
felt like there'd be a baby upin my chest and throat when I
was running.
So, like the self-care, a lotlooked like that.
Um, I was so like unaware ofhow therapy worked.
(11:15):
Right, and this is 2007, 2008,right, and it just wasn't as
talked about as it is now.
We did social media, otherFacebook Nobody on Facebook or
MySpace was going go to therapy.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Right, so it wasn't a whole lot of self-care
conversation at the time.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
No, there really wasn't.
So, connecting to my son andthat attachment was a big thing,
spending time with my dog, thework I did, you know, and the
group of friends I had wasreally important, and I did a
lot of journaling, a lot ofjournaling.
I enjoy writing.
I'm still like a, you know,often writing and so I used a
(11:54):
lot for processing and I did alot of like narrative, future
oriented writing.
Who did I want to be as amother?
Who did I want my child to seehimself?
Right?
The one thing I often hoped forwas that he'd be a critical
thinker, that, no matteranything else, he could just
think critically, because youcan handle anything then, right,
yeah, so it was.
(12:15):
It was a difficult time, butalso it felt really beautiful.
I felt I hear women's storiesabout pregnancy.
Some are really difficult and Ihad a really easy pregnancy,
right, and I felt like there wasthe one gift in this, right, at
least I didn't have a verycomplicated pregnancy.
When he was born, it was fourhours and that's still kind of
how he is.
He's like I'm ready to go, I'mdoing it now, right, I love it
(12:38):
so.
So that was difficult, but itwas beautiful.
It kind of all, like, was thistapestry being woven together?
Not every string is the mostperfect string, but you find a
way to wrap it in with theothers right and like all this
more big picture.
Um, and those first few monthswith him were fun.
They were scary, like I wasn'tsleeping.
(12:59):
I had saved a lot of moneyduring my um pregnancy.
I started just like workingovertime and putting money away
and so I could take off a longerperiod of time to be with him
and I just I found and I youknow I had somebody say to me at
that point I'm so gladmothering fits with you and that
really hit me.
I like that never left mebecause that's how I felt.
(13:21):
I felt like, oh, this hits forme.
This, this like reallycompletes a sense of my being
and connection to the world.
Right, I loved mothering andbeing with him and he was.
He was an easy baby, right, healmost rarely cried and he slept
early through the night, likenot all the time, but I just
remember going oh my gosh, thisis so wonderful.
(13:42):
Obviously, I got some easierparts to it with a baby, but
just the two of us.
Right, I found a little daycareprovider I could afford and I
started a new job that was morenine to five.
I was working for the state ofNew York as a contractor um
supporting people with um headinjuries, and so I was doing
some like internal family workwith people.
(14:03):
I was going into people's homesand working with them who
sustained a disability, andgoing home in the evening and
being with my son and having ourlittle like non-traditional two
person family.
So I was really trying to makethe most of it.
But also in this time period myson's father started pressing
for more Right.
(14:24):
He he would want to come andjust take him and have him.
My son's father startedpressing for more right.
He would want to come and justtake him and have him right.
And that was not a thing.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I was like, yeah, people, there are going to be
people who are listening to thepodcast and not watching you and
I.
So they did not see myinstantaneous head shake the
visceral no in all of my body.
So no, right.
So everything in you says no,thank you, sir.
(14:55):
But I'm also hearkening back toyou saying you'd had that
conversation with his motherwhere she said you belong to us
now and I also had a visceral noto that.
So where did things land withhim and the family.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, so I would hear from his mother pretty often
text messages and phone calls.
You know there was one thingthat had happened right after my
son was born.
I had like sent her a message aday he was born, said hey, he
was born.
This is birth weight.
Right, I'm trying to still berespectful, going.
Maybe I can create somethingthat has some like support for
(15:37):
my child.
But neutrality Cause, I went.
I don't know where my rates arein this.
I don't know what I'm allowedto say no to.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
You are exceptionally generous.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Well, the lawyer I had spoken to said essentially,
you have no rights in thisprocess.
If he wants to pursue something, it doesn't really matter how
conception had happened.
So I'm keeping this in the backof my head throughout pregnancy
and going how do I be gracious?
But also, with boundaries, howdo I navigate some of this in a
(16:10):
way that maybe I can and I'm anoptimist maybe I can make this
good, maybe I can over-functionmy way into safety, right, okay,
and so I had let her know andshe showed up at the hospital
and she had asked to hold thebaby.
I'm like, of course, so she'sholding the baby she had brought
.
(16:30):
It was it was the strangestthing, daniel.
She brought an envelope full ofcash and she brought some baby
clothes.
And I am laying in the hospitalbed and I will never forget
looking over and seeing her pullout a cotton swab and swab the
inside of my son's cheek andthen drop it in a Ziploc bag,
(16:53):
and I said what are you doing?
And she said I'm grandparentspaternity test.
I.
I hit my call button and I saidto the nurse hey, I really need
this individual to leave.
And so she, the grandmother,just looked at me like I was a
lunatic handed the baby to thenurse and walked out, and about
(17:15):
three weeks after I was home,she showed up at my house with
about 10 family members and theysaid, the paternity test came
back, and that's when I went.
Oh, this is the part that'sabout to get really messy,
because I felt so outnumbered bythem and this is what it was
like for a very long time.
(17:35):
There was they're a largefamily.
Now in this, I rarely everheard from or saw the father.
Right, it was always grandma,always a tow of people always
being like this is what you needto do, and I'm like, no, I'm
not going to do that.
She eventually filed for solecustody in her son's name, who
(17:56):
I'd heard very little of at thispoint, and so that would that
kind of opened up.
Okay, what's going to starthappening here, where I don't
even know how any of thesethings work?
I am 26 years old.
I make $30,000 a year, right?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
The audacity.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, that yes, and I , I had no idea what to do.
So the day of court showed upand she's not there, but her son
is there, and so they have asit with somebody who does like
some mediation and I say, okay,this is what's going to happen,
I'm going to have sole custodyand you're going to be able to
see him every other weekend.
At this point my son's a yearold and he goes okay, it's fine,
(18:36):
I don't care it's, and I wentokay, I see where you see where
the energy is flowing rightthrough this problem.
Um, over those next few years.
So it would turn reallyvolatile.
It was a really difficultsituation.
He wouldn't, he wouldn't showup for most weekends, but when
(18:57):
he would show up it would belike physical hands on me and it
was pressing about.
I shouldn't, he shouldn't haveto pay child support, he should
be able to have him whenever hewants.
And I would like file fororders of protection, which I
got to approved, and I'd takethem to family court and I'd say
(19:18):
we can't continue this.
This is unsafe for me, it'sunsafe for my son, and family
court would say, well, did hetouch your son?
And I'd say, no, he touched mewhen I have my son and they go
well, if he doesn't touch yourson, we're not worried, and so
the visits would continue.
It was it was really, andduring those weekends where my
(19:41):
son would be with the dad orwith grandparents because I
think sometimes we just take himand drop him off at his mom's
house I would get these textmessages that say you're never
going to see him again, I'm notreturning him on Sunday, I'm not
going to be there and I'd showup.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Were you not able to use those in court to say this
is not a safe environment?
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, oh my gosh.
There were points that I was incourt twice a month.
I was there constantly goingsomeone, help us, someone, stop
the situation.
I've never been married to thisman.
I was assaulted by this man.
He continues to physicallyassault me.
He sends these threateningmessages and they would say,
yeah, but eventually you getyour son back.
(20:25):
Sometimes it would be two daysafter when I was supposed to and
they go but did you get himback?
I mean, you have sole custody.
What more could you possiblywant?
You already had the most youcan get and I'd say, well,
that's not true.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
What I would like is to not fear for my child's
safety and not worry that I'mnot ever going to get him back.
Yeah, that's what I would likeactually it would happen.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It would go on sometimes a week.
At one point I got the statetroopers involved, and when I
went to the state trooper'soffice they were like they
looked up his record and theysaid we are not supposed to tell
you this, but this man hassealed records for some things
that are really concerning,which I learned over time in New
York it's easier to get yourrecord sealed if you go through
(21:12):
certain treatment programs.
So they said that he had done asexual offender treatment
program, he had done drinkingand driving treatment programs,
and so then he's allowed to havehis records sealed.
And so I'm dealing with asituation where I am not allowed
to have all of the information,I'm not allowed to ask
questions.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So how much of your life experience informs the work
you do now?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
you do now?
Yeah, great question.
I think the thing that Istarted learning was that my son
and I were in our own littlefamily system just the two of us
in the home, we had our systemright, and then the system of my
son's father's family.
They're their own system andthey have other power dynamics
at our play, by how many of themthey are, by how much money
they have.
And then, when I would putboundaries, they would
(22:04):
incorporate another system, thatbeing the court system to try
and force me to do things and Iwould incorporate the court
system to try to protect us fromhaving to do things.
And I started to see howsystems work together, sometimes
for good, sometimes for bad,and that within every system
there's rules.
There's rules that you can talkabout and there's rules that,
(22:26):
if you talk about, it makesthings worse and if you bring up
those rules, it createsproblems.
Okay, so you know, I wentthrough this situation for, oh
my gosh, until my son was 11.
His father finally kind ofbacked away and around that time
period I was like, okay, we'vebeen through the wringer.
(22:46):
We had relocated to Michigan inthat time period and I was like
I want to go back to graduateschool, like I had spent so much
time over that time working onmy own healing, going to
multiple therapists.
I mean, there was a time periodwe lived a safe haven for a
couple months and the therapistI had there was so monumental
(23:09):
and she was the one that startedbeing like the court system is
a system right?
And a system is as good as itsparts and the parts of
government, she says, are notalways good parts right.
And so she taught me how tonavigate the system.
She said this is what you'regoing to do.
I don't want you to getattorneys anymore.
They're taking advantage of you.
This is what I want you to file, this is what I want you to say
(23:31):
.
That's how we were able to move.
I incorporated this part intomy system of healing, right Of
going.
Somebody is going to heal withme, they're going to help me
heal.
I'm going to be doing the workof it.
But when this woman startedproviding me all of this
information and she said you canwork within the system, it's
not happening at you, you justhave to decide how you'll
(23:53):
participate in it.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
So interesting.
So what this does for me.
Interesting.
So what this, what this doesfor me.
So I'm incredibly inquisitive.
I instantly think anyone elsewho is struggling as you have
right now.
The first thing they do islawyer, right, if they can
afford it.
If they can't afford it, theyflounder.
(24:16):
Where does someone go?
So if they're not going lawyer,what are the resources for them
?
Yeah, and that's a greatquestion.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I felt like when I found this therapist, she was
really like a needle in ahaystack and a lot of her was
like who work at safe Haven,women and all of these.
She was one of the first onesthat told me lawyers aren't
helping you.
There's the abuse you're goingthrough and they know you're
desperate.
She said, unless you can find agood woman lawyer which a lot
(24:45):
of the lawyers are finding weremen right they're not going to
be able to do much for youbecause they don't believe the
abuse is real.
And so I ended up having to doa lot of Google research.
You know, what I had used tohelp us move was actually based
on constitutional rights insteadof state and local rights.
So, constitutionally, my son'sfather couldn't keep me located
(25:11):
in a place.
If I wanted to move and getaway, I could use a
constitutional right that noone's allowed to be kept,
essentially a prisoner, and Idon't remember exactly what the
term was right.
This is like six, eight yearsago, but there was a way that
she taught me how to say myconstitutional right is that I'm
allowed to relocate and notstay in the same space, and I
(25:33):
will allow equal access stillfor visitation with my son.
I will bring him back this manytimes a year to New York for
visits, right.
She taught me how to look forthe nuance in the government
system, right, how to use thatsystem as a form of protection
instead of a form of anotherabuse, because he was using
(25:54):
legal abuse to hold us.
Still.
Right, when I'd say I want tomove and I don't feel safe or
these things and I was focusingon the micro details that were
happening, I was missing how touse the macro system as a
protection source.
That is fascinating.
It blew my mind at that time,right, and I negotiated.
I gave up that twenty fivethousand dollars in child
(26:16):
support unpaid.
I told him I'll forgive it likeit never happened in child
support unpaid.
I told him I'll forgive it Likeit never happened.
If we can move and I want touse my constitutional right that
I don't have to stay located ina state, in exchange I'll make
sure you have access a certainnumber of times of year.
He said absolutely no problem,go.
He signed a document and hesaid don't tell my mother.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, Okay Now how did that?
Work once.
Right, how did that work oncehis mother found out, um, yeah,
when you were gone.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
It was the weekend.
We were relocating, so I waspacking and I was assuming at
this point maybe he told herit'd been six months since we'd
signed this agreement, I'dgotten a job, I'm making things
happen.
I bought a house in Michigan,we're going to go.
And she said well, we.
My son at this point is four orfive.
She said we're going to, we'regoing to get him next week.
And I said no, there's a newagreement, it starts now.
(27:11):
And she said what are youtalking about?
And I said talk to your sonabout it, please.
I know.
I said we're reloc, relocating,talk to so-and-so, make sure
(27:32):
you get all the information.
And she was like you're notallowed to take my child.
She said weird, weird.
And I was like, okay, I have togo.
Goodbye, I'm getting off thephone now, right, and?
And so that we go.
And so the question of like,how do we talk about the work I
do now as a therapist?
It's all system work.
When I saw the pressure and theenablement that existed between
this man and his mother, or hisbrothers and his mother, and
(27:54):
everything was about he wouldjust disappear and then she
would show up and she wouldcriticize him why aren't you
seeing your son?
Why are you doing this?
You need to be doing this, youneed to make sure she can't take
him away from us.
And then he would show up withviolence towards me.
Now I was the problem.
There was this triangle rightwhen the tension was flowing,
where she would push on him, hewould push on me, and then I
(28:17):
would go.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
It wasn't even something he wanted.
No, it wasn't something hewanted at all, but it's.
I mean not to I'm not atherapist, but not to to use my
non therapy therapy, but it verymuch.
His aggression on you initiallyis a function of that level of
(28:40):
dysfunction in his family forhis entire life, exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
There's a part of you that goes compassionately.
You think about the little boyof him that likely was
emotionally neglected and abused.
Yeah, I mean it's yes, and yetI don't want that to trickle to
my son, correct?
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I don't want that to trickle to my son.
Correct.
At what point did your sonbecome aware of the
circumstances surrounding hisconception?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Well.
So he became aware over a lotof his visits that his dad was
unhealthy.
There were things that wouldhappen in the visits.
He would be left home alone athis dad's home and he'd be told
at four years old play GrandTheft Auto until I get home, and
if I find out that you weren'tplaying video games while I was
gone you'll be in trouble.
And then he was just left allday and he was told don't tell
(29:31):
your mom.
And I would find out thesestories years later.
I knew things were right.
When he came back I could seethings were.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
I could see he was scared.
You could see he was upset.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
You could see that he didn't want to go on visits,
these visits that when Iwouldn't want to send him and he
would be sobbing and he'd behysterical, and I, under the
system of the court, had to say,don't worry, it's going to be
okay, right?
Because then, otherwise itwould be, a report would be
written that I was discouraging,that, that's, I was the problem
Right, otherwise it would be areport would be written that I
was discouraging, that I was theproblem Right.
(30:02):
And so we get back to thattriangle again the court, me,
dad, right.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So do you?
Are you a therapist, as thattherapist was to you?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
That's a great question.
So I try so hard to meet peoplewhere they're at right.
I try so hard to Someone'sknocking at my door right now, I
cannot answer that.
I try so hard to meet peoplewhere they're at, in the level
(30:35):
of crisis, to not push them intowhat I think they should be
doing and where they should begoing.
Right, because I could see thattherapist going.
Why are you doing this?
Why are you participating likethis?
But she had to meet me in thisspace.
Right, this is this resource.
This is this thing.
What do you think about this?
Would you have done if Iprovided?
(30:56):
Right, and so that's the way Ioften try to meet people, but I
work really hard on trying tomeet them as well in the system
of their problem.
Right, somebody that's not readyto leave a partner, but they
feel unsafe?
Right, what is the system ofyour family?
What are the rules that aretalked about?
Are you allowed to bring upemotions or does it make things
(31:17):
more volatile?
Are you allowed to say you feelunsafe or does it make things
unsafe?
Learning how systems createpressure started to really
change me as a human, and so Iwork so hard to meet people
there, right.
And so in the couples I workwith, I'm going okay, so-and-so,
you come from this family, thisstyle these rules, and you,
(31:40):
over here, come from this family, these style these rules.
How are you co-creating rulesin your home with your own
children, with your ownalliances between family members
?
Where are you not talkingdirectly to each other?
Right, if I go back and I couldhave had a healthy, direct
conversation with my son'sfather and said, hey, this thing
(32:00):
happened, this is how he's here, and it creates a lot of fear
in me and I want to feel like,despite that, we're here, we
have this baby, you want to knowhim.
Let's make something differentand safe.
Obviously, he wasn't a human atthat time.
I doubt now that's capable ofthat.
Had he been, that's a differentconversation.
If we can say, hey, you've hurtme, it makes it hard for me to
(32:23):
trust you and we're talkingabout vulnerable humans.
That's what we're trying to doin therapy.
That's the work I try to dowith everyone I work with,
whether it's individuals,couples, families, adolescents.
What is allowed to be talkedabout?
What is the system you'reoperating in?
What are the rules you see inthat system?
Right?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
What would you like people to take from your story?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
You know, I'd like them to take a couple of things.
You know, have you ever heardof the book on Bar From the Tree
by Andrew Solomon?
Okay, so in that book everychapter goes through a different
mothering story.
So mothers of children withautism and mothers of children
with, you know, different needs.
And then there's a chapterabout mothers of children who
(33:08):
the child was conceived byassault and in it he talks a bit
about how difficult it is formothers to love children from
those stories.
And so when I read it, I wroteit and I was like I have a child
that was conceived by assaultand I love him so much, he's so
(33:29):
important to me.
And you know, andrew Solomonwrote back and he said he said
that's really unique, that'sunheard of and that really
surprised me, right, and I wentokay, that's it, that's a story
I guess you know I'd love forpeople to feel like children who
were conceived in this way arestill chosen, right, and my son
(33:52):
had these difficult experienceswith his dad and about a year
ago he's like you know, mom, Ijust really need to know.
Nothing makes sense, right?
I hadn't told him a lot of mystory with it.
I always tried to focus on hisas much as I could.
And so I told him.
I said this is, you know, thisis a story.
And he said I'm afraid it meansthat I kind of happened and I
(34:16):
wasn't picked or chosen.
And I said you were the mostchosen, you were so chosen.
And I said you were the mostchosen, you were so chosen,
right, so chosen, you were sochosen.
And I saw something kind ofrelease in him, right.
And so even when I had broughtup to him about doing this
podcast and he said you know, Ijust, I just want others to know
that they can feel chosen inthose stories.
(34:37):
That it's really special, oh myheart, I know.
And that felt really wonderfulto hear him say.
I wanted him to feel that hehas some autonomy over the story
, over how it's told, right Over, you know.
And he said he's told a fewfriends about how this is like a
bit of our story.
He says, right, and they'll belike I mean teenage boys.
(34:58):
They'll be like yo, dude, yougot to be nicer to your mom.
I love it.
I love it.
It's so funny.
So I want people to feel likemothering comes in so many ways,
right, it's not just like youhad mentioned earlier, like
somebody says, hey, let's have ababy, and they get excited and
they plan right.
(35:18):
My story of solo parenting I'veall I've often differed from
single parenting.
We're often in single parentingand it's complicated, right.
There's complicated divorcesand things turn animus and
there's relationships that havehad DV.
But often you have a level ofsupport.
There's someone that on youknow alternate times will take
your child.
There's people looking out.
(35:38):
I really didn't feel like wehad that.
It was hard to tell people thestory when my son was little and
he needed the most support.
I saw people not know what todo with it and so I started kind
of tucking it away, right, andit started like telling the
story to myself of like you'renot single parenting, where
single parenting feels like ittrails into some level of more
(36:00):
support.
You're solo parenting and it'sthe two of you and you can
create chosen family.
But it's going to be different.
People don't always understandthe story and trying to find
some acceptings that they don'thave to understand it to be
meaningful to us, right to whowe are.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
You don't need that validation from anyone else.
We are.
You don't need that validationfrom anyone else.
I mean, it's the love storythat exists between you and your
son, between you and you, rightLike this was a.
This was love that you choseand it was him that you chose
and you.
I go back to that friend ofyours saying how motherhood
(36:40):
suits you, right Like it's.
It gives me chills.
I love that right.
You, just you were.
You listened to that yearningin you, that that piece of you
that said, no, this is my path.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, and that's what it felt like, and it felt like
a universal story being told.
I went okay, I see you,universe.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
And I think that you know to me that's that's a piece
of this too how important it isthat we listen to ourselves.
Yeah, Because a lot, a lot oftimes that inner tells us
something that the world mightotherwise say.
(37:27):
I don't think that's, overall,a good idea, Right, but we know
there's something in us thatknows otherwise.
Yeah, and that's so incrediblypowerful.
Miranda, how would you define?
Speaker 1 (37:39):
hope?
Oh, that's such a question.
You know, when I think abouthope, I think about a future
oriented narrative that we leaninto.
Something can be different,something can be good in a way
we weren't expecting.
I see, often when I'm workingwith couples and we'll be doing
(38:00):
this, you know modality work oflike the flow of the emotions
between them and their own cycleand one of them will say
something and I'll watchsomething change in the other
person and I'll go, hey, what'sgoing on for you?
And they go when they said thatI just had hope that maybe
something can be different.
Something can be different.
(38:23):
And I think often we'retracking for hope.
When we get into conflict withsomeone we love, whether it's
our children or a partner or afriend, we find ourselves
tracking these micro moments ofgoing, hey, I just want to see
this thing, but we don't knowwe're doing it until we see them
respond in the way that we justwent.
I needed that so badly, the waythat we just went, I needed
(38:45):
that so badly.
Right, when I, you know, thinkabout parenting with my son, and
sometimes I go, I don't know,maybe I don't know what I'm
doing, because we all say, asparents, right, always, always.
And then they come out and theygo hey, I was thinking that I
have a plan for this and, as aparent of a teenager, you just
go oh, cool, so glad, right.
But internally you go oh, Ihave hope, everything's going to
be okay, they're going tofigure it out.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Right, I'm going to help them, but they're going to
do it every day, yeah, every day, every day.
As a parent of of children ofany age, we hope desperately
that we are doing it right andwe second guess ourselves and we
have to believe, recognizingthat they are are our greatest
(39:28):
teachers.
Yeah, that that we are, thatwe're setting them up, yeah, to
be the best versions ofthemselves.
Yeah, and we'll make mistakesalong the way and they'll figure
it out though They'll figure itout.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, I think that's hope.
Hope is actually tracking.
When we stop tracking andlooking for something to change
is where it feels like hope hasgone away, when we see ourselves
still looking and going okay,it doesn't have to be exactly
like this, right?
That's when we know hope stillexists.
I feel like it's the trackingthat it's there.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
I love that.
That's beautiful.
It has been such a gift havingyou on here today.
Where can people connect withyou or or find you?
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, I love that.
So my website, um, just for mytherapy practice is, uh, is
wwwclaritygrcom, and they canreach out to me through there,
or my email is Miranda atclaritygrcom.
I'd love to hear from people ifthey have similar stories too,
and just I think it's such animportant story to be told.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
This is.
This has been an incredibleconversation.
I always love not onlyconversations that have this
level of hope and light, butwhen I'm learning things too,
when I can can hear someone'sstory and realize that there are
different levels of hope andlight and possibility when it
(41:04):
feels as though they're runninginto walls and they think I
don't know where to go next, andI love that.
You have provided insight forpeople who find themselves
running up against systems thatare not working.
Yeah, so thank you so much forbeing here with me today.
I so appreciate it.
(41:25):
Healing is not always linear,but neither is storytelling, so
it is so wonderful to have youhere and I'm grateful that you
have walked this stretch of roadand that our listeners have
been here with us today.
And I hope, friends, if youhave found a piece of Miranda's
story, that it has met you whereyou are and you know someone
(41:46):
that needs to hear it, that youwill pass it on.
You will continue to listen andsubscribe and continue to share
Until you can join us again onHope Comes to Visit.
Please take very good care ofyourself and thank you, as
always, for being here with us.
Naturally, it's important tothank the people who support and
(42:09):
sponsor the podcast.
This episode is supported byChris Dulley, a trusted criminal
defense attorney and friend ofmine here in St Louis, who
believes in second chances andsolid representation.
Whether you're facing a DWI,felony or traffic issue, chris
handles your case personallywith clarity, compassion and
over 15 years of experience.
When things feel uncertain, ithelps to have someone steady in
(42:32):
your corner.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP or you can visit
dullylawfirmcom to schedule yourfree consultation.
My son was conceived by sexual assault and I knew the
individual.
We had had a datingrelationship in the past.
We no longer did at the timethat this event occurred and it
was a really traumaticinteraction.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
There are moments in life when everything falls apart
and somehow something sacredbegins On.
Hope Comes to Visit.
We share these stories ofunraveling and rebuilding, of
grief and grace, of finding thelight again.
I'm Danielle Elliott Smith andI'm so glad you're here.
My guest today understandsrebuilding and seeking to be a
(00:46):
light for others.
Miranda Ward is a licensedmarriage and family therapist.
She focuses her work on couplesand engaging through a modality
called emotionally focusedtherapy.
Emotionally focused therapyidentifies the cycles of
connection and disconnectioncouples and families experience.
While her work as a therapistis a large part of her identity,
(01:07):
her primary identity is that ofbeing a solo parent to her
17-year-old son.
The identity of being a soloparent has led her to the work
of systems and cycles withinfamilies and culture that
impacts all of us on a dailybasis.
Miranda is the co-owner of asmall therapy practice in Grand
Rapids, michigan, where herpractice focuses primarily on
(01:29):
couples and families, ontreating individuals through a
family systems lens.
Let's take a quick moment tothank the people that support
and sponsor the podcast.
When life takes an unexpectedturn, you deserve someone who
will stand beside you.
St Louis attorney Chris Jollyoffers experienced one-on-one
legal defense.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP.
(01:55):
Or you can visitDulleyLawFirmcom that's
D-U-L-L-E-LawFirmcom for a freeconsultation.
Miranda, I am so excited tohave you here.
Thank you for taking time withus.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to be hereand tell a bit of my story.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
When you first reached out and we were
communicating and I was readingthrough your story, one of the
first words that came to mindwas brave.
I think about so many of thestories that people share, and I
am always so impacted by howwilling people are to be
(02:41):
vulnerable and to offer theiropportunity to connect with
other people, and my hope isalways that the work we're doing
here, the stories that we'resharing, meets people where they
are, and that there will besomeone who's listening, who
says that's me.
I've been there, I've had thatmoment, I've been that scared,
(03:06):
I've been that lost and Ihaven't known how to move
forward.
And my hope is that that's oneof the things we're going to do
today that people will listen toyou and they will feel seen in
a way that they haven't before.
So, if you're willing, I wouldlove for people to hear your
(03:30):
story from you rather than fromme.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, I appreciate that and you know, when I
reached out and thought aboutsharing this story, I actually I
asked my son first, becausethey said you know, this is part
of your story too and I I justreally want to be respectful of
what that is and, um, he's areally, you know, he's a really
kind, sweet young man and he waslike mom this is.
(03:55):
So.
It's such an important storythat people need to hear it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
I love that and being 17.
So I have a 19 and a21-year-old, and so I recognize
that age right.
That age is not always sure.
Mom tell my story, and I spenttime as a mom blogger, and so
there was a time when my kidswere like tell everything about
(04:19):
me, and then a time that theywere very clear on do not take
my picture.
So, oh, take my picture.
So, oh, yeah, Right, so his,his willingness to share is is
beautiful and vulnerable andbrave as well.
So, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So I kind of started there with him and then was and
then felt like, okay, I want totell this story.
I mean, he's 17,.
He's going to be 18 in a fewmonths, and so this is a story,
too, that I've had a lot ofhesitation to share, right,
because I want to be protectiveof him, but I've had to also be
really protective of us.
So my son was conceived bysexual assault, and I knew the
(04:58):
individual.
We had had a datingrelationship in the past.
We no longer did at the timethat this event occurred, and
and it was a really, it was areally traumatic interaction,
right, as for anyone whoexperiences sexual assault or
losing their bodily autonomy.
And so when I found that I waspregnant a number of weeks later
(05:21):
, I was like I can't do this.
I can't risk this person beingin our lives, I can't risk what
that would look like.
I was, oh my gosh, 24, 25 yearsold.
I was just starting my life.
I was working as a recreationaltherapist in residential
centers.
It was like play orientedtherapy, right.
And so then I, you know, Icalled the clinic.
(05:43):
I went to a clinic, and part ofthat process is sitting with a
counselor, right.
And so I kind of went through,you know, identity stories and I
went through what I wanted formy life and I went through this
whole conversation with thiswoman, which was, I think, the
work of abortion therapist isreally underlooked, right.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I it's.
It's funny that, as you'retalking about that, I'm thinking
that is a piece of that, thatdialogue that we have now around
abortion, pro-life, pro-choice,that people don't consider that
(06:27):
we, when we're diminishingwomen's bodily autonomy, we act
as though women just go abortioncheck box checked Like, sure,
give me one, I'll take another.
Thanks.
As compared to this consciousthought, like the thought
process and the ache and thefear and the conversations that
(06:48):
go into it, and especiallyconsidering what your pregnancy
experience was.
Yeah, this was not a.
Hey, I'd like to have a childwith this gentleman.
This was not a.
I'm married'd like to have achild with this gentleman.
This was not a.
I'm married and we're trying toconceive.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Right, and I think that that was such a pivotal
moment.
Right when I I went throughthat conversation, I went I'm
going to do this, I'm going tokeep this child.
There was something in my gutthat said, no, this is okay,
this is a path I'm going to take, this is a path I'm going to
take, and it was.
It was a strange pregnancy.
It really was.
It was, I would say it was justthe two of us.
At the point I had a littleJack Russell Terrier, so maybe
(07:30):
in a way, the three of us, right, right, what was your family
support like at the time?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
So, was there any?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
So my family, like growing up my family was really
complicated.
They were really kind ofchaotic group of individuals.
I had a sister that had had ababy at 15.
I had a brother who lived inresidential treatment and has
spent a lot of his life inincarceration.
So there was a lot of familydynamics.
And you know, my family justdoesn't always do complicated
(08:02):
things well.
So when I told my parents andalways do complicated things
well so when I told my parents,you know, my mom was like all
babies are blessings and my dadis I'll push you down the stairs
if you want.
So there was a really right.
So okay, so yes, so that kindof really added to this in my
(08:23):
mind at this point.
I started being that I'm on,I'm on my own.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah you are thinking Miranda's like this is a solo
journey, Got it.
This is a solo journey.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
In time, my son's father's family learned that I
was pregnant and they, thegrandmother, started reaching
out and really started kind ofpressing something.
She said we're going to beinvolved and I told her what had
happened.
It had been an assault, andI'll never forget the phone
conversation with her.
(08:51):
She said it doesn't matter, youguys belong to us now.
And that was a reallyterrifying moment for me because
I had spoken to an attorney atone point who informed me at
that point he lived in New Yorkand she said there was no
protection for children ofsexual assault or women of
sexual assault where a child isconceived in the state of New
(09:11):
York.
And there still isn't.
New York is one of, I think, 12states that there isn't that
protection?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
You read my mind.
That was going to be my nextquestion.
So there are states where thereis protection, but New York is
one of 12 where there is not.
Yes, and 12 might not be theaccurate number, but it's a
smaller number.
Isn't it?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, I'm surprised that New York is one of the ones
that is not.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
That honestly blew my mind.
When I spoke to this attorney,she said if you pursue charges
for sexual assault, it might bemore dangerous for you.
He might go away if you don'tpursue charges.
And so it was a really likewhere do I go, what do I do?
And so I just and again, I'mmid twenties, right, and I don't
(09:54):
have strong family support.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
I was going to say and you're doing this alone,
okay, I'm doing it alone.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
So I'm just going, okay, I'm just doing this, and
the one vision I created, though, was that my son was always
going to know that he was loved,that he would know he was loved
, no different from a child fromany other family.
I took pictures of myself, likeof my belly, through the
pregnancy, and I created a, youknow, an adorable nursery, and I
had some friends that were likesupportive, and we had a baby
(10:20):
shower with like a smallgathering of us, and so I tried
so much to create this normalcy,but it felt like I was living
these two stories right.
I had the story, like, thetrauma of what was happening on
one side, and I had the story ofmothering starting on the other
.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
How are you taking care of yourself through the
traumatic piece of it?
Was there anything you weredoing in terms of therapy or or
seeking to honor that piece ofyou that had been assaulted?
You know that's a greatquestion.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I was a huge exerciser at that point.
I ran half marathons for fun,and so I continued to run during
that time period until aboutsix or seven months, when it
felt like there'd be a baby upin my chest and throat when I
was running.
So, like the self-care, a lotlooked like that.
Um, I was so like unaware ofhow therapy worked.
(11:15):
Right, and this is 2007, 2008,right, and it just wasn't as
talked about as it is now.
We did social media, otherFacebook Nobody on Facebook or
MySpace was going go to therapy.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Right, so it wasn't a whole lot of self-care
conversation at the time.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
No, there really wasn't.
So, connecting to my son andthat attachment was a big thing,
spending time with my dog, thework I did, you know, and the
group of friends I had wasreally important, and I did a
lot of journaling, a lot ofjournaling.
I enjoy writing.
I'm still like a, you know,often writing and so I used a
(11:54):
lot for processing and I did alot of like narrative, future
oriented writing.
Who did I want to be as amother?
Who did I want my child to seehimself?
Right?
The one thing I often hoped forwas that he'd be a critical
thinker, that, no matteranything else, he could just
think critically, because youcan handle anything then, right,
yeah, so it was.
(12:15):
It was a difficult time, butalso it felt really beautiful.
I felt I hear women's storiesabout pregnancy.
Some are really difficult and Ihad a really easy pregnancy,
right, and I felt like there wasthe one gift in this, right, at
least I didn't have a verycomplicated pregnancy.
When he was born, it was fourhours and that's still kind of
how he is.
He's like I'm ready to go, I'mdoing it now, right, I love it
(12:38):
so.
So that was difficult, but itwas beautiful.
It kind of all, like, was thistapestry being woven together?
Not every string is the mostperfect string, but you find a
way to wrap it in with theothers right and like all this
more big picture.
Um, and those first few monthswith him were fun.
They were scary, like I wasn'tsleeping.
(12:59):
I had saved a lot of moneyduring my um pregnancy.
I started just like workingovertime and putting money away
and so I could take off a longerperiod of time to be with him
and I just I found and I youknow I had somebody say to me at
that point I'm so gladmothering fits with you and that
really hit me.
I like that never left mebecause that's how I felt.
(13:21):
I felt like, oh, this hits forme.
This, this like reallycompletes a sense of my being
and connection to the world.
Right, I loved mothering andbeing with him and he was.
He was an easy baby, right, healmost rarely cried and he slept
early through the night, likenot all the time, but I just
remember going oh my gosh, thisis so wonderful.
(13:42):
Obviously, I got some easierparts to it with a baby, but
just the two of us.
Right, I found a little daycareprovider I could afford and I
started a new job that was morenine to five.
I was working for the state ofNew York as a contractor um
supporting people with um headinjuries, and so I was doing
some like internal family workwith people.
(14:03):
I was going into people's homesand working with them who
sustained a disability, andgoing home in the evening and
being with my son and having ourlittle like non-traditional two
person family.
So I was really trying to makethe most of it.
But also in this time period myson's father started pressing
for more Right.
(14:24):
He he would want to come andjust take him and have him.
My son's father startedpressing for more right.
He would want to come and justtake him and have him right.
And that was not a thing.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
I was like, yeah, people, there are going to be
people who are listening to thepodcast and not watching you and
I.
So they did not see myinstantaneous head shake the
visceral no in all of my body.
So no, right.
So everything in you says no,thank you, sir.
(14:55):
But I'm also hearkening back toyou saying you'd had that
conversation with his motherwhere she said you belong to us
now and I also had a visceral noto that.
So where did things land withhim and the family.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, so I would hear from his mother pretty often
text messages and phone calls.
You know there was one thingthat had happened right after my
son was born.
I had like sent her a message aday he was born, said hey, he
was born.
This is birth weight.
Right, I'm trying to still berespectful, going.
Maybe I can create somethingthat has some like support for
(15:37):
my child.
But neutrality Cause, I went.
I don't know where my rates arein this.
I don't know what I'm allowedto say no to.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
You are exceptionally generous.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Well, the lawyer I had spoken to said essentially,
you have no rights in thisprocess.
If he wants to pursue something, it doesn't really matter how
conception had happened.
So I'm keeping this in the backof my head throughout pregnancy
and going how do I be gracious?
But also, with boundaries, howdo I navigate some of this in a
(16:10):
way that maybe I can and I'm anoptimist maybe I can make this
good, maybe I can over-functionmy way into safety, right, okay,
and so I had let her know andshe showed up at the hospital
and she had asked to hold thebaby.
I'm like, of course, so she'sholding the baby she had brought
.
(16:30):
It was it was the strangestthing, daniel.
She brought an envelope full ofcash and she brought some baby
clothes.
And I am laying in the hospitalbed and I will never forget
looking over and seeing her pullout a cotton swab and swab the
inside of my son's cheek andthen drop it in a Ziploc bag,
(16:53):
and I said what are you doing?
And she said I'm grandparentspaternity test.
I.
I hit my call button and I saidto the nurse hey, I really need
this individual to leave.
And so she, the grandmother,just looked at me like I was a
lunatic handed the baby to thenurse and walked out, and about
(17:15):
three weeks after I was home,she showed up at my house with
about 10 family members and theysaid, the paternity test came
back, and that's when I went.
Oh, this is the part that'sabout to get really messy,
because I felt so outnumbered bythem and this is what it was
like for a very long time.
(17:35):
There was they're a largefamily.
Now in this, I rarely everheard from or saw the father.
Right, it was always grandma,always a tow of people always
being like this is what you needto do, and I'm like, no, I'm
not going to do that.
She eventually filed for solecustody in her son's name, who
(17:56):
I'd heard very little of at thispoint, and so that would that
kind of opened up.
Okay, what's going to starthappening here, where I don't
even know how any of thesethings work?
I am 26 years old.
I make $30,000 a year, right?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
The audacity.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah, that yes, and I , I had no idea what to do.
So the day of court showed upand she's not there, but her son
is there, and so they have asit with somebody who does like
some mediation and I say, okay,this is what's going to happen,
I'm going to have sole custodyand you're going to be able to
see him every other weekend.
At this point my son's a yearold and he goes okay, it's fine,
(18:36):
I don't care it's, and I wentokay, I see where you see where
the energy is flowing rightthrough this problem.
Um, over those next few years.
So it would turn reallyvolatile.
It was a really difficultsituation.
He wouldn't, he wouldn't showup for most weekends, but when
(18:57):
he would show up it would belike physical hands on me and it
was pressing about.
I shouldn't, he shouldn't haveto pay child support, he should
be able to have him whenever hewants.
And I would like file fororders of protection, which I
got to approved, and I'd takethem to family court and I'd say
(19:18):
we can't continue this.
This is unsafe for me, it'sunsafe for my son, and family
court would say, well, did hetouch your son?
And I'd say, no, he touched mewhen I have my son and they go
well, if he doesn't touch yourson, we're not worried, and so
the visits would continue.
It was it was really, andduring those weekends where my
(19:41):
son would be with the dad orwith grandparents because I
think sometimes we just take himand drop him off at his mom's
house I would get these textmessages that say you're never
going to see him again, I'm notreturning him on Sunday, I'm not
going to be there and I'd showup.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Were you not able to use those in court to say this
is not a safe environment?
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, oh my gosh.
There were points that I was incourt twice a month.
I was there constantly goingsomeone, help us, someone, stop
the situation.
I've never been married to thisman.
I was assaulted by this man.
He continues to physicallyassault me.
He sends these threateningmessages and they would say,
yeah, but eventually you getyour son back.
(20:25):
Sometimes it would be two daysafter when I was supposed to and
they go but did you get himback?
I mean, you have sole custody.
What more could you possiblywant?
You already had the most youcan get and I'd say, well,
that's not true.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
What I would like is to not fear for my child's
safety and not worry that I'mnot ever going to get him back.
Yeah, that's what I would likeactually it would happen.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It would go on sometimes a week.
At one point I got the statetroopers involved, and when I
went to the state trooper'soffice they were like they
looked up his record and theysaid we are not supposed to tell
you this, but this man hassealed records for some things
that are really concerning,which I learned over time in New
York it's easier to get yourrecord sealed if you go through
(21:12):
certain treatment programs.
So they said that he had done asexual offender treatment
program, he had done drinkingand driving treatment programs,
and so then he's allowed to havehis records sealed.
And so I'm dealing with asituation where I am not allowed
to have all of the information,I'm not allowed to ask
questions.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So how much of your life experience informs the work
you do now?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
you do now?
Yeah, great question.
I think the thing that Istarted learning was that my son
and I were in our own littlefamily system just the two of us
in the home, we had our systemright, and then the system of my
son's father's family.
They're their own system andthey have other power dynamics
at our play, by how many of themthey are, by how much money
they have.
And then, when I would putboundaries, they would
(22:04):
incorporate another system, thatbeing the court system to try
and force me to do things and Iwould incorporate the court
system to try to protect us fromhaving to do things.
And I started to see howsystems work together, sometimes
for good, sometimes for bad,and that within every system
there's rules.
There's rules that you can talkabout and there's rules that,
(22:26):
if you talk about, it makesthings worse and if you bring up
those rules, it createsproblems.
Okay, so you know, I wentthrough this situation for, oh
my gosh, until my son was 11.
His father finally kind ofbacked away and around that time
period I was like, okay, we'vebeen through the wringer.
(22:46):
We had relocated to Michigan inthat time period and I was like
I want to go back to graduateschool, like I had spent so much
time over that time working onmy own healing, going to
multiple therapists.
I mean, there was a time periodwe lived a safe haven for a
couple months and the therapistI had there was so monumental
(23:09):
and she was the one that startedbeing like the court system is
a system right?
And a system is as good as itsparts and the parts of
government, she says, are notalways good parts right.
And so she taught me how tonavigate the system.
She said this is what you'regoing to do.
I don't want you to getattorneys anymore.
They're taking advantage of you.
This is what I want you to file, this is what I want you to say
(23:31):
.
That's how we were able to move.
I incorporated this part intomy system of healing, right Of
going.
Somebody is going to heal withme, they're going to help me
heal.
I'm going to be doing the workof it.
But when this woman startedproviding me all of this
information and she said you canwork within the system, it's
not happening at you, you justhave to decide how you'll
(23:53):
participate in it.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
So interesting.
So what this does for me.
Interesting.
So what this, what this doesfor me.
So I'm incredibly inquisitive.
I instantly think anyone elsewho is struggling as you have
right now.
The first thing they do islawyer, right, if they can
afford it.
If they can't afford it, theyflounder.
(24:16):
Where does someone go?
So if they're not going lawyer,what are the resources for them
?
Yeah, and that's a greatquestion.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I felt like when I found this therapist, she was
really like a needle in ahaystack and a lot of her was
like who work at safe Haven,women and all of these.
She was one of the first onesthat told me lawyers aren't
helping you.
There's the abuse you're goingthrough and they know you're
desperate.
She said, unless you can find agood woman lawyer which a lot
(24:45):
of the lawyers are finding weremen right they're not going to
be able to do much for youbecause they don't believe the
abuse is real.
And so I ended up having to doa lot of Google research.
You know, what I had used tohelp us move was actually based
on constitutional rights insteadof state and local rights.
So, constitutionally, my son'sfather couldn't keep me located
(25:11):
in a place.
If I wanted to move and getaway, I could use a
constitutional right that noone's allowed to be kept,
essentially a prisoner, and Idon't remember exactly what the
term was right.
This is like six, eight yearsago, but there was a way that
she taught me how to say myconstitutional right is that I'm
allowed to relocate and notstay in the same space, and I
(25:33):
will allow equal access stillfor visitation with my son.
I will bring him back this manytimes a year to New York for
visits, right.
She taught me how to look forthe nuance in the government
system, right, how to use thatsystem as a form of protection
instead of a form of anotherabuse, because he was using
(25:54):
legal abuse to hold us.
Still.
Right, when I'd say I want tomove and I don't feel safe or
these things and I was focusingon the micro details that were
happening, I was missing how touse the macro system as a
protection source.
That is fascinating.
It blew my mind at that time,right, and I negotiated.
I gave up that twenty fivethousand dollars in child
(26:16):
support unpaid.
I told him I'll forgive it likeit never happened in child
support unpaid.
I told him I'll forgive it Likeit never happened.
If we can move and I want touse my constitutional right that
I don't have to stay located ina state, in exchange I'll make
sure you have access a certainnumber of times of year.
He said absolutely no problem,go.
He signed a document and hesaid don't tell my mother.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, Okay Now how did that?
Work once.
Right, how did that work oncehis mother found out, um, yeah,
when you were gone.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
It was the weekend.
We were relocating, so I waspacking and I was assuming at
this point maybe he told herit'd been six months since we'd
signed this agreement, I'dgotten a job, I'm making things
happen.
I bought a house in Michigan,we're going to go.
And she said well, we.
My son at this point is four orfive.
She said we're going to, we'regoing to get him next week.
And I said no, there's a newagreement, it starts now.
(27:11):
And she said what are youtalking about?
And I said talk to your sonabout it, please.
I know.
I said we're reloc, relocating,talk to so-and-so, make sure
(27:32):
you get all the information.
And she was like you're notallowed to take my child.
She said weird, weird.
And I was like, okay, I have togo.
Goodbye, I'm getting off thephone now, right, and?
And so that we go.
And so the question of like,how do we talk about the work I
do now as a therapist?
It's all system work.
When I saw the pressure and theenablement that existed between
this man and his mother, or hisbrothers and his mother, and
(27:54):
everything was about he wouldjust disappear and then she
would show up and she wouldcriticize him why aren't you
seeing your son?
Why are you doing this?
You need to be doing this, youneed to make sure she can't take
him away from us.
And then he would show up withviolence towards me.
Now I was the problem.
There was this triangle rightwhen the tension was flowing,
where she would push on him, hewould push on me, and then I
(28:17):
would go.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
It wasn't even something he wanted.
No, it wasn't something hewanted at all, but it's.
I mean not to I'm not atherapist, but not to to use my
non therapy therapy, but it verymuch.
His aggression on you initiallyis a function of that level of
(28:40):
dysfunction in his family forhis entire life, exactly.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
There's a part of you that goes compassionately.
You think about the little boyof him that likely was
emotionally neglected and abused.
Yeah, I mean it's yes, and yetI don't want that to trickle to
my son, correct?
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I don't want that to trickle to my son.
Correct.
At what point did your sonbecome aware of the
circumstances surrounding hisconception?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Well.
So he became aware over a lotof his visits that his dad was
unhealthy.
There were things that wouldhappen in the visits.
He would be left home alone athis dad's home and he'd be told
at four years old play GrandTheft Auto until I get home, and
if I find out that you weren'tplaying video games while I was
gone you'll be in trouble.
And then he was just left allday and he was told don't tell
(29:31):
your mom.
And I would find out thesestories years later.
I knew things were right.
When he came back I could seethings were.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
I could see he was scared.
You could see he was upset.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
You could see that he didn't want to go on visits,
these visits that when Iwouldn't want to send him and he
would be sobbing and he'd behysterical, and I, under the
system of the court, had to say,don't worry, it's going to be
okay, right?
Because then, otherwise itwould be, a report would be
written that I was discouraging,that, that's, I was the problem
Right, otherwise it would be areport would be written that I
was discouraging, that I was theproblem Right.
(30:02):
And so we get back to thattriangle again the court, me,
dad, right.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
So do you?
Are you a therapist, as thattherapist was to you?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
That's a great question.
So I try so hard to meet peoplewhere they're at right.
I try so hard to Someone'sknocking at my door right now, I
cannot answer that.
I try so hard to meet peoplewhere they're at, in the level
(30:35):
of crisis, to not push them intowhat I think they should be
doing and where they should begoing.
Right, because I could see thattherapist going.
Why are you doing this?
Why are you participating likethis?
But she had to meet me in thisspace.
Right, this is this resource.
This is this thing.
What do you think about this?
Would you have done if Iprovided?
(30:56):
Right, and so that's the way Ioften try to meet people, but I
work really hard on trying tomeet them as well in the system
of their problem.
Right, somebody that's not readyto leave a partner, but they
feel unsafe?
Right, what is the system ofyour family?
What are the rules that aretalked about?
Are you allowed to bring upemotions or does it make things
(31:17):
more volatile?
Are you allowed to say you feelunsafe or does it make things
unsafe?
Learning how systems createpressure started to really
change me as a human, and so Iwork so hard to meet people
there, right.
And so in the couples I workwith, I'm going okay, so-and-so,
you come from this family, thisstyle these rules, and you,
(31:40):
over here, come from this family, these style these rules.
How are you co-creating rulesin your home with your own
children, with your ownalliances between family members
?
Where are you not talkingdirectly to each other?
Right, if I go back and I couldhave had a healthy, direct
conversation with my son'sfather and said, hey, this thing
(32:00):
happened, this is how he's here, and it creates a lot of fear
in me and I want to feel like,despite that, we're here, we
have this baby, you want to knowhim.
Let's make something differentand safe.
Obviously, he wasn't a human atthat time.
I doubt now that's capable ofthat.
Had he been, that's a differentconversation.
If we can say, hey, you've hurtme, it makes it hard for me to
(32:23):
trust you and we're talkingabout vulnerable humans.
That's what we're trying to doin therapy.
That's the work I try to dowith everyone I work with,
whether it's individuals,couples, families, adolescents.
What is allowed to be talkedabout?
What is the system you'reoperating in?
What are the rules you see inthat system?
Right?
Speaker 2 (32:43):
What would you like people to take from your story?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
You know, I'd like them to take a couple of things.
You know, have you ever heardof the book on Bar From the Tree
by Andrew Solomon?
Okay, so in that book everychapter goes through a different
mothering story.
So mothers of children withautism and mothers of children
with, you know, different needs.
And then there's a chapterabout mothers of children who
(33:08):
the child was conceived byassault and in it he talks a bit
about how difficult it is formothers to love children from
those stories.
And so when I read it, I wroteit and I was like I have a child
that was conceived by assaultand I love him so much, he's so
(33:29):
important to me.
And you know, andrew Solomonwrote back and he said he said
that's really unique, that'sunheard of and that really
surprised me, right, and I wentokay, that's it, that's a story
I guess you know I'd love forpeople to feel like children who
were conceived in this way arestill chosen, right, and my son
(33:52):
had these difficult experienceswith his dad and about a year
ago he's like you know, mom, Ijust really need to know.
Nothing makes sense, right?
I hadn't told him a lot of mystory with it.
I always tried to focus on hisas much as I could.
And so I told him.
I said this is, you know, thisis a story.
And he said I'm afraid it meansthat I kind of happened and I
(34:16):
wasn't picked or chosen.
And I said you were the mostchosen, you were so chosen.
And I said you were the mostchosen, you were so chosen,
right, so chosen, you were sochosen.
And I saw something kind ofrelease in him, right.
And so even when I had broughtup to him about doing this
podcast and he said you know, Ijust, I just want others to know
that they can feel chosen inthose stories.
(34:37):
That it's really special, oh myheart, I know.
And that felt really wonderfulto hear him say.
I wanted him to feel that hehas some autonomy over the story
, over how it's told, right Over, you know.
And he said he's told a fewfriends about how this is like a
bit of our story.
He says, right, and they'll belike I mean teenage boys.
(34:58):
They'll be like yo, dude, yougot to be nicer to your mom.
I love it.
I love it.
It's so funny.
So I want people to feel likemothering comes in so many ways,
right, it's not just like youhad mentioned earlier, like
somebody says, hey, let's have ababy, and they get excited and
they plan right.
(35:18):
My story of solo parenting I'veall I've often differed from
single parenting.
We're often in single parentingand it's complicated, right.
There's complicated divorcesand things turn animus and
there's relationships that havehad DV.
But often you have a level ofsupport.
There's someone that on youknow alternate times will take
your child.
There's people looking out.
(35:38):
I really didn't feel like wehad that.
It was hard to tell people thestory when my son was little and
he needed the most support.
I saw people not know what todo with it and so I started kind
of tucking it away, right, andit started like telling the
story to myself of like you'renot single parenting, where
single parenting feels like ittrails into some level of more
(36:00):
support.
You're solo parenting and it'sthe two of you and you can
create chosen family.
But it's going to be different.
People don't always understandthe story and trying to find
some acceptings that they don'thave to understand it to be
meaningful to us, right to whowe are.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
You don't need that validation from anyone else.
We are.
You don't need that validationfrom anyone else.
I mean, it's the love storythat exists between you and your
son, between you and you, rightLike this was a.
This was love that you choseand it was him that you chose
and you.
I go back to that friend ofyours saying how motherhood
(36:40):
suits you, right Like it's.
It gives me chills.
I love that right.
You, just you were.
You listened to that yearningin you, that that piece of you
that said, no, this is my path.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, and that's what it felt like, and it felt like
a universal story being told.
I went okay, I see you,universe.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
And I think that you know to me that's that's a piece
of this too how important it isthat we listen to ourselves.
Yeah, Because a lot, a lot oftimes that inner tells us
something that the world mightotherwise say.
(37:27):
I don't think that's, overall,a good idea, Right, but we know
there's something in us thatknows otherwise.
Yeah, and that's so incrediblypowerful.
Miranda, how would you define?
Speaker 1 (37:39):
hope?
Oh, that's such a question.
You know, when I think abouthope, I think about a future
oriented narrative that we leaninto.
Something can be different,something can be good in a way
we weren't expecting.
I see, often when I'm workingwith couples and we'll be doing
(38:00):
this, you know modality work oflike the flow of the emotions
between them and their own cycleand one of them will say
something and I'll watchsomething change in the other
person and I'll go, hey, what'sgoing on for you?
And they go when they said thatI just had hope that maybe
something can be different.
Something can be different.
(38:23):
And I think often we'retracking for hope.
When we get into conflict withsomeone we love, whether it's
our children or a partner or afriend, we find ourselves
tracking these micro moments ofgoing, hey, I just want to see
this thing, but we don't knowwe're doing it until we see them
respond in the way that we justwent.
I needed that so badly, the waythat we just went, I needed
(38:45):
that so badly.
Right, when I, you know, thinkabout parenting with my son, and
sometimes I go, I don't know,maybe I don't know what I'm
doing, because we all say, asparents, right, always, always.
And then they come out and theygo hey, I was thinking that I
have a plan for this and, as aparent of a teenager, you just
go oh, cool, so glad, right.
But internally you go oh, Ihave hope, everything's going to
be okay, they're going tofigure it out.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
Right, I'm going to help them, but they're going to
do it every day, yeah, every day, every day.
As a parent of of children ofany age, we hope desperately
that we are doing it right andwe second guess ourselves and we
have to believe, recognizingthat they are are our greatest
(39:28):
teachers.
Yeah, that that we are, thatwe're setting them up, yeah, to
be the best versions ofthemselves.
Yeah, and we'll make mistakesalong the way and they'll figure
it out though They'll figure itout.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, I think that's hope.
Hope is actually tracking.
When we stop tracking andlooking for something to change
is where it feels like hope hasgone away, when we see ourselves
still looking and going okay,it doesn't have to be exactly
like this, right?
That's when we know hope stillexists.
I feel like it's the trackingthat it's there.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
I love that.
That's beautiful.
It has been such a gift havingyou on here today.
Where can people connect withyou or or find you?
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, I love that.
So my website, um, just for mytherapy practice is, uh, is
wwwclaritygrcom, and they canreach out to me through there,
or my email is Miranda atclaritygrcom.
I'd love to hear from people ifthey have similar stories too,
and just I think it's such animportant story to be told.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
This is.
This has been an incredibleconversation.
I always love not onlyconversations that have this
level of hope and light, butwhen I'm learning things too,
when I can can hear someone'sstory and realize that there are
different levels of hope andlight and possibility when it
(41:04):
feels as though they're runninginto walls and they think I
don't know where to go next, andI love that.
You have provided insight forpeople who find themselves
running up against systems thatare not working.
Yeah, so thank you so much forbeing here with me today.
I so appreciate it.
(41:25):
Healing is not always linear,but neither is storytelling, so
it is so wonderful to have youhere and I'm grateful that you
have walked this stretch of roadand that our listeners have
been here with us today.
And I hope, friends, if youhave found a piece of Miranda's
story, that it has met you whereyou are and you know someone
(41:46):
that needs to hear it, that youwill pass it on.
You will continue to listen andsubscribe and continue to share
Until you can join us again onHope Comes to Visit.
Please take very good care ofyourself and thank you, as
always, for being here with us.
Naturally, it's important tothank the people who support and
(42:09):
sponsor the podcast.
This episode is supported byChris Dulley, a trusted criminal
defense attorney and friend ofmine here in St Louis, who
believes in second chances andsolid representation.
Whether you're facing a DWI,felony or traffic issue, chris
handles your case personallywith clarity, compassion and
over 15 years of experience.
When things feel uncertain, ithelps to have someone steady in
(42:32):
your corner.
Call 314-384-4000 or314-DUI-HELP or you can visit
dullylawfirmcom to schedule yourfree consultation.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com