October 20, 2025 • 34 mins
Hope isn’t the absence of fear—it’s the light that keeps you moving when fear won’t leave.
In this tender, no-fluff conversation, I sit with Sam Bonizzi, co-author of The Losses We Keep, as she shares how two missed miscarriages upended everything: the shock of hard news in an ultrasound room, the moment she fired a clinic that wouldn’t test her partner, and how she built a real support web—REI + acupuncture + therapy + a circle of women who “got it.”
We wade through conflicting advice, why testing doesn’t always hand you tidy answers, and how Sam chose IVF with genetic screening to reduce risk (not promise outcomes). We also name the complicated reality of pregnancy after loss—milestones as checkpoints, waiting rooms as triggers, and the slow release of tension week by week.
If you’re walking this road (or loving someone who is), you’ll leave with language, next steps, and permission to hold hope and fear at the same time.
You’ll hear:
- What a missed miscarriage is—and why it can feel so blindsiding
- How to advocate for yourself (and when to switch clinics) so both partners are evaluated
- Building a support team: medical care, acupuncture, therapy, community
- When testing gives no clear diagnosis—and how to choose your next best step
- IVF + genetic screening: risk reduction, not guarantees
- Pregnancy after loss: navigating triggers, milestones, mixed emotions
- How to support a loved one without toxic positivity
Check out Sam's Book - The Losses We Keep, Our Journey of Fertility, Loss and Never-Ending Hope - Her Chapter is 'If Nothing is Wrong, Then How Do We Fix It?"
Thank you for listening to Hope Comes to Visit. If this conversation helps, follow the show, share it with someone who needs hope today, and leave a review - it helps others find their way to these conversations.
New episodes drop every Monday, so you can begin your week with a little light and a lot of hope.
For more stories, reflections, and ways to connect, visit www.DanielleElliottSmith.com or follow along on Instagram @daniellesmithtv and @HopeComestoVisit
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
At that point, just couldn't wrap my head around the
fact that this could happenagain, even though I was nervous
and scared.
I knew how rare it was for Iknew how rare recurring
pregnancy loss was.
And I just was like, well,surely I've paid my dues.
Surely this won't happen to meagain, especially after just
(00:21):
experiencing this.
So while I was very nervous.
Powerful.
I did have a lot of hope aroundit.
And so we went back in, I thinkit was around eight weeks.
And again, during our ultrasoundappointment, we found out that
we had had a miss miscarriage.
SPEAKER_02 (00:50):
Hi there, friends.
I'm Danielle Elliott Smith, andthis is Hope Comes to Visit.
It's a space for brave storiesand soft landings.
If you're feeling a little shorton hope today, you can borrow
some of ours.
My guest today is Sam Benizzi.
She's the co-author of TheLosses We Keep, Our Journey of
Fertility, Loss, andNever-Ending Hope.
Sam, thank you so much forjoining me today.
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
It's great to chat with you.
SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
I'm really excited to have this conversation
because I know that you havebeen through a series of
experiences and challenges thatmany, many women, many families
have experienced.
And I'm confident that yourstories and hope are going to
(01:36):
resonate with our community.
And so I'm I'm grateful to youfor taking this time with us.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it's not something youknow we ever wish on anybody,
but the truth is that it doesaffect a lot of women.
So I think having gone throughit now and writing the book and
everything, it's kind of openedup a lot of conversations with
people and um an opportunity forme to share and hopefully bring
(02:05):
hope to others.
SPEAKER_02 (02:07):
I'm confident you will.
So let's start with a little bitabout your experience.
So you get married and you areplanning on starting a family.
And what does that look like foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
Yeah, so it was a simple conversation of okay,
we're going to get off birthcontrol now and start trying.
Um, there was really nohesitation around it.
It was that was what our doctortold us to do.
When you're ready, get off birthcontrol, begin trying, and you
should be good to go.
(02:43):
Um and at first it seemed likeeverything was great.
Um, after getting off birthcontrol, we got pregnant fairly
quickly.
So, you know, we were obviouslyvery excited.
We uh started to tell evenfriends and family um shortly
after finding out.
(03:04):
So we were, you know, just overthe moon about the news.
Um I guess it was at our 13-weekappointment when we were about
to go in for genetic testing andto find out, you know, we had
the option to find out thegender.
So it was during thatappointment.
Um, we had gone in, and duringthat appointment, essentially it
(03:30):
was the news was delivered to usthat um we, you know, our baby
didn't have a heartbeat.
Um and at that point, I think itjust completely shattered us.
It was not something I hadreally thought about.
I mean, it's always in the backof your mind that having a
miscarriage is possible.
(03:51):
But I think when I envisioned amiscarriage, it was always the
assumption for me that this issomething that happens.
Um you know it happens, likeyou're bleeding actively, you
know right away you're having amiscarriage.
I didn't understand the conceptof a missed miscarriage, is
which is what happened to us.
Okay.
Um so it was a missedmiscarriage in that like my body
(04:15):
thought it was still pregnant.
However, the fetus didn'tsurvive.
SPEAKER_02 (04:20):
So this felt you had imagined it would be a very
dramatic event as compared to.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
Yeah, whenever I thought about the concept of a
miscarriage, that was what cameto mind for me.
So I guess like, you know, youalways hope that when you go
into appointments that thingsare okay, but I didn't really
feel nervous going into thoseappointments.
I think it was more just likethese positive feelings, um,
being excited, you know, Iwasn't worried.
(04:51):
Um, that was very, I think,naive of me to not, you know,
realize that something could gowrong.
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
Um do you do you think that it was naive of you,
or more that it was just likethat's normal for a first
pregnancy, that you wereexperiencing the normal thoughts
and emotions and feelings that aa new mother and a new father,
new pregnancy you youexperience.
You share in reading yourchapter, you know, you had
(05:19):
purchased a bracelet to give toyour grandmother and and you had
started to share with people.
I mean, it's you were sharingaround the typical time people
start to share at that 12 to 13week time frame.
SPEAKER_00 (05:33):
Yeah, I think that was the other part of it is, you
know, okay, you get to the 12weeks and nothing happens.
You feel like, okay, we must bein the clear.
Even though we didn't have thatappointment yet, I still felt
like we were going to be okay.
We had gotten through thatmostly that we had pretty much
gotten through the firsttrimester.
(05:53):
So I went into that appointmentjust excited to finally see our
baby again.
We had been in for um one or twoother ultrasounds.
So it wasn't our first time, youknow, visiting the doctor.
We had been there a couple oftimes.
Um, so at that point, everythingwas looking good.
Um, and so it was fairly late inthe first trimester for us to
(06:16):
find out that, you know, thepregnancy was no longer.
Um so, you know, it was tough.
And from there, it was justfiguring out what to do next,
having to go through the nextsteps and go through the
motions.
You don't really even have timeto process what happened because
you're having to make decisionsabout what to do and um how to
(06:41):
move forward.
And then you have to go throughthe whole trauma of you know
having the baby removed anddealing with the blood and the
loss all over again.
So that was you know, it was areally hard time for us.
SPEAKER_02 (06:57):
Um from what did you guys next?
So, in your journey, so I'm I'mso sorry that you had to
experience that.
So, did you what next steps didyou guys take in your fertility
journey?
Did did you assume that youwould just get pregnant again
(07:17):
easily, or did you start workingthrough a fertility process?
SPEAKER_00 (07:22):
No, we didn't do anything in regards to a
fertility process.
Our doctor just told us thatonce you know I'd got my period
again and my cycle started over,we were good to start trying
again.
You know, after one miscarriage,the unfortunate side of it is
that it's it's common, ithappens to one in four
pregnancies.
So there's no real alarm thatgoes off after the first one.
(07:46):
Uh, and I was just determined tokeep trying.
You know, I was, of course,nervous as hell, but I just
wanted to keep the train moving.
So, you know, whether or not Iwas physically or emotionally
ready to try again, I'm notsure.
But I'm we made that decision,my husband and I, to try again
(08:08):
immediately following.
And sure enough, we got pregnantagain in a few months.
Um, and then from there, youknow, you find out you're
pregnant after loss.
It's not the same experience asthe first time by any means.
You are just filled withanxiety, at least I was.
(08:33):
You know, you're just so scaredthat things are going to
transpire the same way that theydid.
Um, you're nervous to tellanybody, you're nervous to get
your hopes up.
So it's a much differentexperience pregnancy after loss.
We um, you know, we had goneinto the doctor.
(08:54):
I think we had started going inpretty early, maybe six weeks or
so in.
And there were some not so greatsigns that the doctor had
flagged for us, um, just inregards to the size and the
heart rate.
But it was the type of thingwhere we had to just wait to see
(09:14):
how things would pan out.
Um, and I really did keep uphope.
I at that point just couldn'twrap my head around the fact
that this could happen again,even though I was nervous and
scared.
I knew how rare it was for, Iknew how rare recurring
pregnancy loss was.
(09:35):
And I just was like, well,surely I've paid my dues.
Surely this won't happen to meagain, especially after just
experiencing this.
So while I was very nervous,powerful.
I did have a lot of hope aroundit.
And so we went back in, I thinkit was around eight weeks, and
(09:56):
again during our ultrasoundappointment, we found out that
we had had a missed miscarriage.
Oh, Sam.
So, you know, at that point, Ithink my reaction while I was
heartbroken all over again, Ialso was angry.
(10:19):
I I don't even know who I wasangry at.
I think myself, my doctor, allsorts of people and things.
Um, but I, you know, I was justcoming to terms with the fact
that this was a much biggerissue than just a sporadic
miscarriage, you know, to haveto deal with two in a row.
That's a flag that somethingbigger is at play and that we
(10:43):
were going to have, you know, amuch bigger hurdle to face than
just simply, okay, let's tryagain.
You know, I was unwilling tojust try again.
It was at that point where I waslike, okay, we need to um, we
need to consult with fertility.
SPEAKER_02 (11:01):
You need answers.
You would like to know what whatare you facing.
Yes, exactly.
And what did the doctors tellyou?
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Well, it was a long process from there.
It wasn't just an easy, okay,you're gonna get some blood work
and we can tell you what's goingon.
It was, you know, first of all,I had started off with one
fertility clinic that they havestarted, they started to do my
testing.
And there was just some things Ididn't feel quite right about
(11:32):
how the care was being handled.
They wouldn't test my husband'ssperm, which felt like, okay, so
you're saying the onus is all onme?
Like it felt like a lot for meto carry.
Um, so I ended up doing someresearch and changing fertility
clinics and ended up with RMA,which ended up being a much
(11:54):
greater fit.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
Um is that normal, Sam?
I mean, do some fertilityclinics only test the woman and
not because it seems to me asthough it would make the most
sense to test both of you at onetime, just to so we get all the
answers at one time.
You would not be an expert, butI mean I'm not an expert,
clearly, but that that seemslike that would make the most
(12:17):
sense, would it not?
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
That's how it felt to me.
And, you know, I just learnedthat not all fertility clinics
handle things in the same way.
And um, I think it's with anydoctor, you know, care is
different everywhere, and it'salso with how you feel with your
doctor.
And it wasn't just that, it wasother things too, and I just
(12:40):
wasn't feeling comfortable.
Um, and with everything that wewere dealing with, I just knew I
needed to get myself into theposition to be in the best care.
So um, you know, that meantadvocating for myself or just
doing more research to figureout what, you know, what that
(13:01):
meant and not moving forwardwith somebody that I didn't feel
100% comfortable with.
Um, and that that was likeacross the board, not just with
the clinic I was using, butlike, you know, I started doing
acupuncture and that was reallyimportant to me.
And I changed my acupuncturistsa few times because that was
like a big, you know, componentof my care, I felt like.
(13:21):
So I landed with somebody who Ifelt amazing about.
So I think that was like a bigpart of that experience was
assembling the right care aroundme.
And that was my fertilityclinic, my doctor there, my
acupuncturist, um, working withyou know the right therapist,
you know, it was mental,physical, all those things.
So I would say, you know, thatwas months of just doing
(13:46):
everything to put myself in whatI felt like was the best
position to continue on thisjourney.
And, you know, it was a lotmentally, it was a lot
emotionally.
Um, there's a lot of informationout there, and it's really hard
to navigate.
(14:07):
You know, there's a lot ofrecommendations in terms of what
you can do to improve yourfertility, what um lifestyle
changes you can make, whatsupplements you can take, all
the different protocols you cando, whether or not you should do
fertility treatments, it's justit became all consuming.
SPEAKER_02 (14:26):
How did you find yourself navigating all of that?
Because that is an avalanche ofinformation.
That is, uh you could be buriedunder all of that.
And I can imagine that theemotion of the experience is
overwhelming in and of itself.
So when you are inundated withgo left, go right, go straight,
(14:47):
go backwards, you how do youfigure out which direction to
take?
SPEAKER_00 (14:52):
Yeah, I think it was a few things.
One was, like I mentioned, justassembling the right care team
and just having the rightprofessionals in place to ask
the questions.
So when I found, you know, mydoctor at RMA, I felt confident
that I can discuss things withher and then take the right path
forward.
(15:13):
Um, and then it was also, youknow, finding women who had been
through it that I trusted who Icould also consult.
So it was really finding theright care team, the right
support around me to help metune out the noise.
SPEAKER_02 (15:30):
That's amazing.
So community is is incrediblyimportant.
And when you mentioned thesewomen that you that you found,
were they friends that you knewclose by?
Was it a community that youfound elsewhere?
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
So I didn't have any close friends or really anybody
in my immediate circle who hadgone through this.
My friends were very fertile andhad no issues getting pregnant,
delivering babies.
So that was challenging.
Um, I really had to go out andfind a new community.
And so I had some friends offriends, people who had
(16:06):
connected me with people thatthey knew who had gone through
something similar.
I also joined an online supportgroup that was really helpful,
and it was specific to women whohad gone through two or more
consecutive miscarriages.
So it was very specific to mysituation, and I felt like that
was really helpful because wewere all sort of navigating a
(16:27):
similar journey and could kindof compare notes and um talk
through things together becausewe were just in it and in very
similar situations.
So that was really what helpedme.
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
So when you uh assemble the correct team and
you have this community, whatwere your next steps?
How did your journey progress?
SPEAKER_00 (16:51):
Yeah, so I went through all the necessary
testing and there wasn't aglaring issue.
Um it had gone down, it had comedown to really bad luck, poor
egg quality, there wasn't reallysomething we could put our
finger on, which was good andbad.
Um, it was good to hear thatthere wasn't a glaring issue,
(17:17):
something that was necessarilygoing to prevent us from getting
and staying pregnant.
But at the same time, it was alittle bit wishy-washy and like
figuring out our next pathforward because there wasn't
this clear indicator of this isthe problem, this is how we fix
it.
It was okay, this could be theproblem, and this could fix it.
(17:39):
So that's the decision weultimately had to make.
We, you know, had to explore orwe decided to explore IVF
because that could reduce ourchances of miscarriage.
It wasn't a guarantee by anymeans, but in talking to my
doctor at RMA, we felt like thatwas the best decision for us,
(18:00):
and that's what we decided topursue.
And how did that go?
We're lucky that it went reallywell for us.
Um we did, we, you know, we dida neck retrieval and we were
happy with the outcome of that.
I mean, really hard thing to gothrough for anybody, um, not
(18:24):
just physically, but mentally,the toll it takes on you, um,
you know, the all the waitingthat goes around with it.
There's a lot of phases andstages that you have to get
through with IVF and the eggretrieval initially.
So it was a lot.
Um, but again, just having theright care team is really what
helped in that instance and justtaking care of my mental health
(18:47):
and all of that.
So we got through the eggretrieval.
We immediately decided to do atransfer.
The transfer stuck on the firsttry, and um we were lucky enough
to deliver a healthy pregnancy,and so I now have a daughter
who's 11 months old.
Congratulations.
(19:09):
Thank you.
What's it like to have a littlegirl now?
Oh, it's amazing.
She's the best.
Um, it's been obviously achallenge, but also the most fun
we've ever had.
And uh she's just been a hugeblessing for us.
SPEAKER_02 (19:29):
What would you say to another mother, another
family that is in the earlystages of this experience where
you once were?
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
I would say find hope wherever you can.
And that could look differentfor everybody.
I think what helped me was likeI mentioned, having that
community and talking to womenwho had gone through it.
I think there's a lot about thisjourney that can bring on guilt
(20:05):
for women in many differentforms, right?
At least for me, dealing withthe guilt of not being able to,
or not having my body work inthe way that it's supposed to.
The guilt and not bringing achild to this into this world,
whether that's you know, notbringing that for my husband or
(20:26):
for my family or whatever thesurroundings were around me, the
guilt of did I do something todeserve this?
Like, why is this happening tome?
There's so many of that, so muchof that that goes sort of swirls
around you.
Um, I think a lot of women dealwith these thoughts.
(20:46):
And the thing that got methrough that was just holding
space for hope.
And the best way to do that wasto talk to women who had gone
through it and come out theother side.
SPEAKER_02 (20:58):
How do you define hope, Sam?
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
How do I define hope?
I think that it's important tounderstand that hope can go can
coexist with other emotions.
So I think it's the light, thelight at the end of the tunnel,
(21:24):
right?
It's what's guiding you to keeppushing through.
You know, when you need to getto your final destination, there
is the only way to go isthrough.
And so that hope is what'sguiding you there.
But you can hold on to hope andalso have feelings of fear and
have feelings of anxiety and bescared and all of those other
(21:49):
emotions, they can coexist, anda lot of times they have to
coexist.
You can't push the negativeemotions away.
You just have to hold space forboth things.
SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
What was it like to tell your family and really be
able to share that you werecarrying a viable pregnancy?
Did you wait a longer time toshare once the IVF had
successfully started to work?
SPEAKER_00 (22:21):
Yeah, I of course I told my mom, you know, I'm
really close with, I told herright away.
But everybody else, I primarilywaited um until we had gotten
the genetic testing back.
So basically, once we had gottenthrough as far, farther than we
ever did in other pregnancies,was when I felt a little bit of
(22:44):
relief in that I could tellthose around me.
Uh I would say it was stillscary.
It wasn't, you know, as joy.
I was, of course, very happywith the outcome, but I was
still very scared.
And so it's, you know, like Isaid, pregnancy after a loss, no
(23:08):
matter how it happens, is stillreally tough.
So having that conversation, Ithink people too, it's it's just
a tough conversation to navigatebecause people don't want to
come across as overly excitedand they don't know how you're
feeling about it.
They know that you might benervous.
And so, you know, I felt alittle bit like the girl who
(23:28):
cried pregnancy and that I justkept saying, I'm pregnant, I'm
pregnant.
And so it's like, okay, but isit real this time?
Um, so you know, every little,every week got a little bit
better, right?
So I got through my firsttrimester, we got the genetic
testing back, we got to week 20when we did the anatomy scan,
(23:48):
like all hitting all thosemilestones was incredible.
You just feel a little bit moreof that weight start to release.
But, you know, especially giventhe fact that when we found out
about our miscarriages, they hadhappened in ultrasound
appointments.
Going into those ultrasoundappointments were not fun.
(24:10):
You know, I was always on edge.
And unfortunately, that's alwaysgoing to carry with me.
Do you plan to have morechildren?
Yeah, so I just had a consulttoday with my doctor at RMA to
start the process or at leaststart talking about the process
(24:31):
of going for number two.
Congratulations.
That is scary.
It's it's exciting, but I think,you know, once she was here, of
course, what had happened nevertruly left, but I kind of was
able to put it way back in mymind for a while.
(24:52):
And now all those things arestarting to come up again for
me, just in thinking of the factthat we're going to be going
through this process again.
Um, and at least things are verydifferent now in that I've done
all the legwork and I've gottenmyself to this point where I'm
in great hands.
(25:13):
However, you know, anything canhappen, and I know that now.
And so that realization is stillvery much, you know, with me.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
You brought up an interesting point that I think
uh you have a unique perspectivefor that may help other people.
When we are talking to someoneor when we are congratulating or
loving on someone who is goingthrough the early stages of
pregnancy after loss, what isthe best thing to say to
someone?
(25:42):
Um how how do we celebratetentatively or love on someone
without making them feel likethere's too much expectation on
that pregnancy once they'vedecided to share?
Because I always work to makesure that I'm properly
empathetic and properlycompassionate.
(26:03):
But I don't want to overstep.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
I think it's okay to be happy for them, but I think
it's just important to holdspace for any other emotions
that they may be feeling.
So recognizing and acknowledgingthe fact that they're probably
scared and there's probably alot of anxiety that's following
them through this process.
And so just giving them thespace to talk about that too,
(26:29):
and you know, attempting not tobe overly positive, but sort of
meet them where they are, thoseare the conversations I always
appreciated the most.
SPEAKER_02 (26:41):
So more listening, less talking.
Yeah.
Asking someone how they'refeeling and making sure they
have the space to tell us howthey're feeling.
Exactly.
unknown (26:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
Do you have any advice for women as they begin
their pregnancy journey?
SPEAKER_00 (27:01):
As they begin their pregnancy journey, I would just
say, you know, do your duediligence.
Um it's important to understandyour body.
Um, I think that's somethingthat I didn't fully grasp when I
went into trying to getpregnant.
(27:24):
Um, you know, I didn't, I hadbeen on birth control for since
I was 19.
And there's nothing wrong withthat, but I didn't understand my
cycles.
I had just went from birthcontrol to trying to get
pregnant, and there was no no inbetween.
Um so I would just hold spacefor the transition that your
(27:49):
body may need.
And um I think it's important toknow um, you know, as much as
you can about your body, yourcycle, what the options are, and
try trying to explore thatearlier than maybe you think you
need to.
SPEAKER_02 (28:07):
I have another question for you.
You mentioned that you aresurrounded by a uh group of
friends who are especiallyfertile.
What can the especially fertileor people who are not thinking
about it because it just happensdo to support their friends who
are finding themselves on a morechallenging road?
(28:32):
Because I think that when you inyounger years in your 20s and
and early 30s, when you getmarried and you start having
kids, for some people it justhappens.
And it doesn't occur to themthat it's not going to, and they
find themselves having somefriends in your shoes where
(28:55):
there is a struggle.
What can they do to supportsomeone in your shoes?
SPEAKER_00 (29:03):
I think it goes back to what we were saying earlier
that it's important to justlisten in a lot of instances and
just hold space for for yourfriend who's going through it.
Um they might not want to talkto you if you're somebody who
you know is pregnant or has ayoung child, and that's okay,
and that's temporary, likely.
(29:25):
So I think acknowledging thatand offer to be there for them,
but also recognize that theymight need to keep their
distance from you for a bit andbe okay with that, understanding
of that.
I think it's still important toreach out.
I wouldn't go silent.
Um, you could always, you know,send money for a coffee or you
(29:51):
know, something to let them knowthat you're thinking about them.
Um, because certainly whenyou're going through this, like
your mental health is going.
Going through it.
So any reach out from a friendis, you know, is appreciated, I
think.
But it's just a matter ofbalancing that with the
acknowledgement that thingsmight be a little awkward or
(30:13):
unsettling for a little bit asas they're navigating through
this difficult time.
But I think saying something isbetter than nothing.
SPEAKER_02 (30:22):
I think that's really important that you
mentioned that because I knowthat uh when I was young, I did
have a few friends whostruggled.
And other friends were afraid tomention that they were pregnant.
And I know that there was somedistance that was created.
And I think in my later years,being much older now, I can see
how important it is that peopledon't go silent and that they
(30:45):
don't take their good fortuneand the silence as a result
personally, right?
Um and that continuing to reachout is really, really important,
even if you're not necessarilyhearing back, uh, similar to
grief, right?
Just similar to a traditionalloss.
If if a mother dies or a, youknow, when you lose a child,
(31:07):
this is a loss.
This is a this is a a loss foryou.
And when you experience thatlevel of grief and you go silent
because of it, you still needpeople to reach out and say,
we're thinking about you andwe're here for you, and what can
we do?
And we love you.
SPEAKER_00 (31:24):
Yeah, and you mentioned this idea of loss, and
there's so much loss that goesinto some when somebody's
experiencing fertilitychallenges.
I mean, you might go through theloss of a baby.
You are going through the lossof what you thought your future
(31:45):
was going to look like.
You go through the loss of youknow, being pregnant and
starting your future.
It's a lot of grief that goesaround it.
So it's very layered and itmight not look so black and
white as if you lose your mom oryour sister, and as terrible as
those things are.
(32:06):
This is like very nuanced andum, you know, something that as
women we just have to keeppushing through and you know,
hold the hope that we're goingto end up on the other end with
a baby.
Um, but there's a lot, you know,emotionally that goes into that.
So yeah, as you said, just youknow, keeping all that in mind
(32:29):
if you have a friend goingthrough it and understanding
that there's um a lot ofdifferent layers to what they're
going through.
SPEAKER_02 (32:38):
Save, I'm so grateful to you for having this
conversation with me.
Is there anything that I didn'task you that you'd really like
to share?
SPEAKER_00 (32:49):
Um no, I think, you know, like I said, it's it's a
it's a journey and it's not overeven once you maybe have a child
in your arms, especially ifyou're thinking of more
children.
It it's something that you haveto continuously navigate and
(33:11):
kind of work through that traumaof what you went through.
And so that's kind of where I'mat right now is revisiting a lot
of those feelings and emotions.
Um and so I just feel foranybody going through this and
you know, want to extend hopefor them.
SPEAKER_02 (33:32):
I am wishing you all the most amazing luck and magic
as you begin this journey again.
And I want to remind everyone umyour chapter in this book is If
nothing is wrong, then how do wefix it?
And the book is The Losses WeKeep, Our Journey of Fertility,
Loss, and Never-Ending Hope.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with me today.
SPEAKER_00 (33:52):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (33:54):
And friends, thank you for joining us on this
episode of Hope Comes to Visit.
I'm Danielle Elliott Smith, andit has, as always, been a joy to
have you here with us.
We so hope we've given you somelove and hope and magic for this
period of time in your life.
Take some time and share thisepisode with someone you know
who needs to hear this versionof hope.
And until we see you again,please take very good care of
(34:18):
you.
At that point, just couldn't wrap my head around the
fact that this could happenagain, even though I was nervous
and scared.
I knew how rare it was for Iknew how rare recurring
pregnancy loss was.
And I just was like, well,surely I've paid my dues.
Surely this won't happen to meagain, especially after just
(00:21):
experiencing this.
So while I was very nervous.
Powerful.
I did have a lot of hope aroundit.
And so we went back in, I thinkit was around eight weeks.
And again, during our ultrasoundappointment, we found out that
we had had a miss miscarriage.
SPEAKER_02 (00:50):
Hi there, friends.
I'm Danielle Elliott Smith, andthis is Hope Comes to Visit.
It's a space for brave storiesand soft landings.
If you're feeling a little shorton hope today, you can borrow
some of ours.
My guest today is Sam Benizzi.
She's the co-author of TheLosses We Keep, Our Journey of
Fertility, Loss, andNever-Ending Hope.
Sam, thank you so much forjoining me today.
SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
Yeah, thank you for having me.
It's great to chat with you.
SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
I'm really excited to have this conversation
because I know that you havebeen through a series of
experiences and challenges thatmany, many women, many families
have experienced.
And I'm confident that yourstories and hope are going to
(01:36):
resonate with our community.
And so I'm I'm grateful to youfor taking this time with us.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it's not something youknow we ever wish on anybody,
but the truth is that it doesaffect a lot of women.
So I think having gone throughit now and writing the book and
everything, it's kind of openedup a lot of conversations with
people and um an opportunity forme to share and hopefully bring
(02:05):
hope to others.
SPEAKER_02 (02:07):
I'm confident you will.
So let's start with a little bitabout your experience.
So you get married and you areplanning on starting a family.
And what does that look like foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (02:22):
Yeah, so it was a simple conversation of okay,
we're going to get off birthcontrol now and start trying.
Um, there was really nohesitation around it.
It was that was what our doctortold us to do.
When you're ready, get off birthcontrol, begin trying, and you
should be good to go.
(02:43):
Um and at first it seemed likeeverything was great.
Um, after getting off birthcontrol, we got pregnant fairly
quickly.
So, you know, we were obviouslyvery excited.
We uh started to tell evenfriends and family um shortly
after finding out.
(03:04):
So we were, you know, just overthe moon about the news.
Um I guess it was at our 13-weekappointment when we were about
to go in for genetic testing andto find out, you know, we had
the option to find out thegender.
So it was during thatappointment.
Um, we had gone in, and duringthat appointment, essentially it
(03:30):
was the news was delivered to usthat um we, you know, our baby
didn't have a heartbeat.
Um and at that point, I think itjust completely shattered us.
It was not something I hadreally thought about.
I mean, it's always in the backof your mind that having a
miscarriage is possible.
(03:51):
But I think when I envisioned amiscarriage, it was always the
assumption for me that this issomething that happens.
Um you know it happens, likeyou're bleeding actively, you
know right away you're having amiscarriage.
I didn't understand the conceptof a missed miscarriage, is
which is what happened to us.
Okay.
Um so it was a missedmiscarriage in that like my body
(04:15):
thought it was still pregnant.
However, the fetus didn'tsurvive.
SPEAKER_02 (04:20):
So this felt you had imagined it would be a very
dramatic event as compared to.
SPEAKER_00 (04:28):
Yeah, whenever I thought about the concept of a
miscarriage, that was what cameto mind for me.
So I guess like, you know, youalways hope that when you go
into appointments that thingsare okay, but I didn't really
feel nervous going into thoseappointments.
I think it was more just likethese positive feelings, um,
being excited, you know, Iwasn't worried.
(04:51):
Um, that was very, I think,naive of me to not, you know,
realize that something could gowrong.
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
Um do you do you think that it was naive of you,
or more that it was just likethat's normal for a first
pregnancy, that you wereexperiencing the normal thoughts
and emotions and feelings that aa new mother and a new father,
new pregnancy you youexperience.
You share in reading yourchapter, you know, you had
(05:19):
purchased a bracelet to give toyour grandmother and and you had
started to share with people.
I mean, it's you were sharingaround the typical time people
start to share at that 12 to 13week time frame.
SPEAKER_00 (05:33):
Yeah, I think that was the other part of it is, you
know, okay, you get to the 12weeks and nothing happens.
You feel like, okay, we must bein the clear.
Even though we didn't have thatappointment yet, I still felt
like we were going to be okay.
We had gotten through thatmostly that we had pretty much
gotten through the firsttrimester.
(05:53):
So I went into that appointmentjust excited to finally see our
baby again.
We had been in for um one or twoother ultrasounds.
So it wasn't our first time, youknow, visiting the doctor.
We had been there a couple oftimes.
Um, so at that point, everythingwas looking good.
Um, and so it was fairly late inthe first trimester for us to
(06:16):
find out that, you know, thepregnancy was no longer.
Um so, you know, it was tough.
And from there, it was justfiguring out what to do next,
having to go through the nextsteps and go through the
motions.
You don't really even have timeto process what happened because
you're having to make decisionsabout what to do and um how to
(06:41):
move forward.
And then you have to go throughthe whole trauma of you know
having the baby removed anddealing with the blood and the
loss all over again.
So that was you know, it was areally hard time for us.
SPEAKER_02 (06:57):
Um from what did you guys next?
So, in your journey, so I'm I'mso sorry that you had to
experience that.
So, did you what next steps didyou guys take in your fertility
journey?
Did did you assume that youwould just get pregnant again
(07:17):
easily, or did you start workingthrough a fertility process?
SPEAKER_00 (07:22):
No, we didn't do anything in regards to a
fertility process.
Our doctor just told us thatonce you know I'd got my period
again and my cycle started over,we were good to start trying
again.
You know, after one miscarriage,the unfortunate side of it is
that it's it's common, ithappens to one in four
pregnancies.
So there's no real alarm thatgoes off after the first one.
(07:46):
Uh, and I was just determined tokeep trying.
You know, I was, of course,nervous as hell, but I just
wanted to keep the train moving.
So, you know, whether or not Iwas physically or emotionally
ready to try again, I'm notsure.
But I'm we made that decision,my husband and I, to try again
(08:08):
immediately following.
And sure enough, we got pregnantagain in a few months.
Um, and then from there, youknow, you find out you're
pregnant after loss.
It's not the same experience asthe first time by any means.
You are just filled withanxiety, at least I was.
(08:33):
You know, you're just so scaredthat things are going to
transpire the same way that theydid.
Um, you're nervous to tellanybody, you're nervous to get
your hopes up.
So it's a much differentexperience pregnancy after loss.
We um, you know, we had goneinto the doctor.
(08:54):
I think we had started going inpretty early, maybe six weeks or
so in.
And there were some not so greatsigns that the doctor had
flagged for us, um, just inregards to the size and the
heart rate.
But it was the type of thingwhere we had to just wait to see
(09:14):
how things would pan out.
Um, and I really did keep uphope.
I at that point just couldn'twrap my head around the fact
that this could happen again,even though I was nervous and
scared.
I knew how rare it was for, Iknew how rare recurring
pregnancy loss was.
(09:35):
And I just was like, well,surely I've paid my dues.
Surely this won't happen to meagain, especially after just
experiencing this.
So while I was very nervous,powerful.
I did have a lot of hope aroundit.
And so we went back in, I thinkit was around eight weeks, and
(09:56):
again during our ultrasoundappointment, we found out that
we had had a missed miscarriage.
Oh, Sam.
So, you know, at that point, Ithink my reaction while I was
heartbroken all over again, Ialso was angry.
(10:19):
I I don't even know who I wasangry at.
I think myself, my doctor, allsorts of people and things.
Um, but I, you know, I was justcoming to terms with the fact
that this was a much biggerissue than just a sporadic
miscarriage, you know, to haveto deal with two in a row.
That's a flag that somethingbigger is at play and that we
(10:43):
were going to have, you know, amuch bigger hurdle to face than
just simply, okay, let's tryagain.
You know, I was unwilling tojust try again.
It was at that point where I waslike, okay, we need to um, we
need to consult with fertility.
SPEAKER_02 (11:01):
You need answers.
You would like to know what whatare you facing.
Yes, exactly.
And what did the doctors tellyou?
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Well, it was a long process from there.
It wasn't just an easy, okay,you're gonna get some blood work
and we can tell you what's goingon.
It was, you know, first of all,I had started off with one
fertility clinic that they havestarted, they started to do my
testing.
And there was just some things Ididn't feel quite right about
(11:32):
how the care was being handled.
They wouldn't test my husband'ssperm, which felt like, okay, so
you're saying the onus is all onme?
Like it felt like a lot for meto carry.
Um, so I ended up doing someresearch and changing fertility
clinics and ended up with RMA,which ended up being a much
(11:54):
greater fit.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
Um is that normal, Sam?
I mean, do some fertilityclinics only test the woman and
not because it seems to me asthough it would make the most
sense to test both of you at onetime, just to so we get all the
answers at one time.
You would not be an expert, butI mean I'm not an expert,
clearly, but that that seemslike that would make the most
(12:17):
sense, would it not?
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
That's how it felt to me.
And, you know, I just learnedthat not all fertility clinics
handle things in the same way.
And um, I think it's with anydoctor, you know, care is
different everywhere, and it'salso with how you feel with your
doctor.
And it wasn't just that, it wasother things too, and I just
(12:40):
wasn't feeling comfortable.
Um, and with everything that wewere dealing with, I just knew I
needed to get myself into theposition to be in the best care.
So um, you know, that meantadvocating for myself or just
doing more research to figureout what, you know, what that
(13:01):
meant and not moving forwardwith somebody that I didn't feel
100% comfortable with.
Um, and that that was likeacross the board, not just with
the clinic I was using, butlike, you know, I started doing
acupuncture and that was reallyimportant to me.
And I changed my acupuncturistsa few times because that was
like a big, you know, componentof my care, I felt like.
(13:21):
So I landed with somebody who Ifelt amazing about.
So I think that was like a bigpart of that experience was
assembling the right care aroundme.
And that was my fertilityclinic, my doctor there, my
acupuncturist, um, working withyou know the right therapist,
you know, it was mental,physical, all those things.
So I would say, you know, thatwas months of just doing
(13:46):
everything to put myself in whatI felt like was the best
position to continue on thisjourney.
And, you know, it was a lotmentally, it was a lot
emotionally.
Um, there's a lot of informationout there, and it's really hard
to navigate.
(14:07):
You know, there's a lot ofrecommendations in terms of what
you can do to improve yourfertility, what um lifestyle
changes you can make, whatsupplements you can take, all
the different protocols you cando, whether or not you should do
fertility treatments, it's justit became all consuming.
SPEAKER_02 (14:26):
How did you find yourself navigating all of that?
Because that is an avalanche ofinformation.
That is, uh you could be buriedunder all of that.
And I can imagine that theemotion of the experience is
overwhelming in and of itself.
So when you are inundated withgo left, go right, go straight,
(14:47):
go backwards, you how do youfigure out which direction to
take?
SPEAKER_00 (14:52):
Yeah, I think it was a few things.
One was, like I mentioned, justassembling the right care team
and just having the rightprofessionals in place to ask
the questions.
So when I found, you know, mydoctor at RMA, I felt confident
that I can discuss things withher and then take the right path
forward.
(15:13):
Um, and then it was also, youknow, finding women who had been
through it that I trusted who Icould also consult.
So it was really finding theright care team, the right
support around me to help metune out the noise.
SPEAKER_02 (15:30):
That's amazing.
So community is is incrediblyimportant.
And when you mentioned thesewomen that you that you found,
were they friends that you knewclose by?
Was it a community that youfound elsewhere?
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
So I didn't have any close friends or really anybody
in my immediate circle who hadgone through this.
My friends were very fertile andhad no issues getting pregnant,
delivering babies.
So that was challenging.
Um, I really had to go out andfind a new community.
And so I had some friends offriends, people who had
(16:06):
connected me with people thatthey knew who had gone through
something similar.
I also joined an online supportgroup that was really helpful,
and it was specific to women whohad gone through two or more
consecutive miscarriages.
So it was very specific to mysituation, and I felt like that
was really helpful because wewere all sort of navigating a
(16:27):
similar journey and could kindof compare notes and um talk
through things together becausewe were just in it and in very
similar situations.
So that was really what helpedme.
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
So when you uh assemble the correct team and
you have this community, whatwere your next steps?
How did your journey progress?
SPEAKER_00 (16:51):
Yeah, so I went through all the necessary
testing and there wasn't aglaring issue.
Um it had gone down, it had comedown to really bad luck, poor
egg quality, there wasn't reallysomething we could put our
finger on, which was good andbad.
Um, it was good to hear thatthere wasn't a glaring issue,
(17:17):
something that was necessarilygoing to prevent us from getting
and staying pregnant.
But at the same time, it was alittle bit wishy-washy and like
figuring out our next pathforward because there wasn't
this clear indicator of this isthe problem, this is how we fix
it.
It was okay, this could be theproblem, and this could fix it.
(17:39):
So that's the decision weultimately had to make.
We, you know, had to explore orwe decided to explore IVF
because that could reduce ourchances of miscarriage.
It wasn't a guarantee by anymeans, but in talking to my
doctor at RMA, we felt like thatwas the best decision for us,
(18:00):
and that's what we decided topursue.
And how did that go?
We're lucky that it went reallywell for us.
Um we did, we, you know, we dida neck retrieval and we were
happy with the outcome of that.
I mean, really hard thing to gothrough for anybody, um, not
(18:24):
just physically, but mentally,the toll it takes on you, um,
you know, the all the waitingthat goes around with it.
There's a lot of phases andstages that you have to get
through with IVF and the eggretrieval initially.
So it was a lot.
Um, but again, just having theright care team is really what
helped in that instance and justtaking care of my mental health
(18:47):
and all of that.
So we got through the eggretrieval.
We immediately decided to do atransfer.
The transfer stuck on the firsttry, and um we were lucky enough
to deliver a healthy pregnancy,and so I now have a daughter
who's 11 months old.
Congratulations.
(19:09):
Thank you.
What's it like to have a littlegirl now?
Oh, it's amazing.
She's the best.
Um, it's been obviously achallenge, but also the most fun
we've ever had.
And uh she's just been a hugeblessing for us.
SPEAKER_02 (19:29):
What would you say to another mother, another
family that is in the earlystages of this experience where
you once were?
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
I would say find hope wherever you can.
And that could look differentfor everybody.
I think what helped me was likeI mentioned, having that
community and talking to womenwho had gone through it.
I think there's a lot about thisjourney that can bring on guilt
(20:05):
for women in many differentforms, right?
At least for me, dealing withthe guilt of not being able to,
or not having my body work inthe way that it's supposed to.
The guilt and not bringing achild to this into this world,
whether that's you know, notbringing that for my husband or
(20:26):
for my family or whatever thesurroundings were around me, the
guilt of did I do something todeserve this?
Like, why is this happening tome?
There's so many of that, so muchof that that goes sort of swirls
around you.
Um, I think a lot of women dealwith these thoughts.
(20:46):
And the thing that got methrough that was just holding
space for hope.
And the best way to do that wasto talk to women who had gone
through it and come out theother side.
SPEAKER_02 (20:58):
How do you define hope, Sam?
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
How do I define hope?
I think that it's important tounderstand that hope can go can
coexist with other emotions.
So I think it's the light, thelight at the end of the tunnel,
(21:24):
right?
It's what's guiding you to keeppushing through.
You know, when you need to getto your final destination, there
is the only way to go isthrough.
And so that hope is what'sguiding you there.
But you can hold on to hope andalso have feelings of fear and
have feelings of anxiety and bescared and all of those other
(21:49):
emotions, they can coexist, anda lot of times they have to
coexist.
You can't push the negativeemotions away.
You just have to hold space forboth things.
SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
What was it like to tell your family and really be
able to share that you werecarrying a viable pregnancy?
Did you wait a longer time toshare once the IVF had
successfully started to work?
SPEAKER_00 (22:21):
Yeah, I of course I told my mom, you know, I'm
really close with, I told herright away.
But everybody else, I primarilywaited um until we had gotten
the genetic testing back.
So basically, once we had gottenthrough as far, farther than we
ever did in other pregnancies,was when I felt a little bit of
(22:44):
relief in that I could tellthose around me.
Uh I would say it was stillscary.
It wasn't, you know, as joy.
I was, of course, very happywith the outcome, but I was
still very scared.
And so it's, you know, like Isaid, pregnancy after a loss, no
(23:08):
matter how it happens, is stillreally tough.
So having that conversation, Ithink people too, it's it's just
a tough conversation to navigatebecause people don't want to
come across as overly excitedand they don't know how you're
feeling about it.
They know that you might benervous.
And so, you know, I felt alittle bit like the girl who
(23:28):
cried pregnancy and that I justkept saying, I'm pregnant, I'm
pregnant.
And so it's like, okay, but isit real this time?
Um, so you know, every little,every week got a little bit
better, right?
So I got through my firsttrimester, we got the genetic
testing back, we got to week 20when we did the anatomy scan,
(23:48):
like all hitting all thosemilestones was incredible.
You just feel a little bit moreof that weight start to release.
But, you know, especially giventhe fact that when we found out
about our miscarriages, they hadhappened in ultrasound
appointments.
Going into those ultrasoundappointments were not fun.
(24:10):
You know, I was always on edge.
And unfortunately, that's alwaysgoing to carry with me.
Do you plan to have morechildren?
Yeah, so I just had a consulttoday with my doctor at RMA to
start the process or at leaststart talking about the process
(24:31):
of going for number two.
Congratulations.
That is scary.
It's it's exciting, but I think,you know, once she was here, of
course, what had happened nevertruly left, but I kind of was
able to put it way back in mymind for a while.
(24:52):
And now all those things arestarting to come up again for
me, just in thinking of the factthat we're going to be going
through this process again.
Um, and at least things are verydifferent now in that I've done
all the legwork and I've gottenmyself to this point where I'm
in great hands.
(25:13):
However, you know, anything canhappen, and I know that now.
And so that realization is stillvery much, you know, with me.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
You brought up an interesting point that I think
uh you have a unique perspectivefor that may help other people.
When we are talking to someoneor when we are congratulating or
loving on someone who is goingthrough the early stages of
pregnancy after loss, what isthe best thing to say to
someone?
(25:42):
Um how how do we celebratetentatively or love on someone
without making them feel likethere's too much expectation on
that pregnancy once they'vedecided to share?
Because I always work to makesure that I'm properly
empathetic and properlycompassionate.
(26:03):
But I don't want to overstep.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
I think it's okay to be happy for them, but I think
it's just important to holdspace for any other emotions
that they may be feeling.
So recognizing and acknowledgingthe fact that they're probably
scared and there's probably alot of anxiety that's following
them through this process.
And so just giving them thespace to talk about that too,
(26:29):
and you know, attempting not tobe overly positive, but sort of
meet them where they are, thoseare the conversations I always
appreciated the most.
SPEAKER_02 (26:41):
So more listening, less talking.
Yeah.
Asking someone how they'refeeling and making sure they
have the space to tell us howthey're feeling.
Exactly.
unknown (26:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:53):
Do you have any advice for women as they begin
their pregnancy journey?
SPEAKER_00 (27:01):
As they begin their pregnancy journey, I would just
say, you know, do your duediligence.
Um it's important to understandyour body.
Um, I think that's somethingthat I didn't fully grasp when I
went into trying to getpregnant.
(27:24):
Um, you know, I didn't, I hadbeen on birth control for since
I was 19.
And there's nothing wrong withthat, but I didn't understand my
cycles.
I had just went from birthcontrol to trying to get
pregnant, and there was no no inbetween.
Um so I would just hold spacefor the transition that your
(27:49):
body may need.
And um I think it's important toknow um, you know, as much as
you can about your body, yourcycle, what the options are, and
try trying to explore thatearlier than maybe you think you
need to.
SPEAKER_02 (28:07):
I have another question for you.
You mentioned that you aresurrounded by a uh group of
friends who are especiallyfertile.
What can the especially fertileor people who are not thinking
about it because it just happensdo to support their friends who
are finding themselves on a morechallenging road?
(28:32):
Because I think that when you inyounger years in your 20s and
and early 30s, when you getmarried and you start having
kids, for some people it justhappens.
And it doesn't occur to themthat it's not going to, and they
find themselves having somefriends in your shoes where
(28:55):
there is a struggle.
What can they do to supportsomeone in your shoes?
SPEAKER_00 (29:03):
I think it goes back to what we were saying earlier
that it's important to justlisten in a lot of instances and
just hold space for for yourfriend who's going through it.
Um they might not want to talkto you if you're somebody who
you know is pregnant or has ayoung child, and that's okay,
and that's temporary, likely.
(29:25):
So I think acknowledging thatand offer to be there for them,
but also recognize that theymight need to keep their
distance from you for a bit andbe okay with that, understanding
of that.
I think it's still important toreach out.
I wouldn't go silent.
Um, you could always, you know,send money for a coffee or you
(29:51):
know, something to let them knowthat you're thinking about them.
Um, because certainly whenyou're going through this, like
your mental health is going.
Going through it.
So any reach out from a friendis, you know, is appreciated, I
think.
But it's just a matter ofbalancing that with the
acknowledgement that thingsmight be a little awkward or
(30:13):
unsettling for a little bit asas they're navigating through
this difficult time.
But I think saying something isbetter than nothing.
SPEAKER_02 (30:22):
I think that's really important that you
mentioned that because I knowthat uh when I was young, I did
have a few friends whostruggled.
And other friends were afraid tomention that they were pregnant.
And I know that there was somedistance that was created.
And I think in my later years,being much older now, I can see
how important it is that peopledon't go silent and that they
(30:45):
don't take their good fortuneand the silence as a result
personally, right?
Um and that continuing to reachout is really, really important,
even if you're not necessarilyhearing back, uh, similar to
grief, right?
Just similar to a traditionalloss.
If if a mother dies or a, youknow, when you lose a child,
(31:07):
this is a loss.
This is a this is a a loss foryou.
And when you experience thatlevel of grief and you go silent
because of it, you still needpeople to reach out and say,
we're thinking about you andwe're here for you, and what can
we do?
And we love you.
SPEAKER_00 (31:24):
Yeah, and you mentioned this idea of loss, and
there's so much loss that goesinto some when somebody's
experiencing fertilitychallenges.
I mean, you might go through theloss of a baby.
You are going through the lossof what you thought your future
(31:45):
was going to look like.
You go through the loss of youknow, being pregnant and
starting your future.
It's a lot of grief that goesaround it.
So it's very layered and itmight not look so black and
white as if you lose your mom oryour sister, and as terrible as
those things are.
(32:06):
This is like very nuanced andum, you know, something that as
women we just have to keeppushing through and you know,
hold the hope that we're goingto end up on the other end with
a baby.
Um, but there's a lot, you know,emotionally that goes into that.
So yeah, as you said, just youknow, keeping all that in mind
(32:29):
if you have a friend goingthrough it and understanding
that there's um a lot ofdifferent layers to what they're
going through.
SPEAKER_02 (32:38):
Save, I'm so grateful to you for having this
conversation with me.
Is there anything that I didn'task you that you'd really like
to share?
SPEAKER_00 (32:49):
Um no, I think, you know, like I said, it's it's a
it's a journey and it's not overeven once you maybe have a child
in your arms, especially ifyou're thinking of more
children.
It it's something that you haveto continuously navigate and
(33:11):
kind of work through that traumaof what you went through.
And so that's kind of where I'mat right now is revisiting a lot
of those feelings and emotions.
Um and so I just feel foranybody going through this and
you know, want to extend hopefor them.
SPEAKER_02 (33:32):
I am wishing you all the most amazing luck and magic
as you begin this journey again.
And I want to remind everyone umyour chapter in this book is If
nothing is wrong, then how do wefix it?
And the book is The Losses WeKeep, Our Journey of Fertility,
Loss, and Never-Ending Hope.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with me today.
SPEAKER_00 (33:52):
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (33:54):
And friends, thank you for joining us on this
episode of Hope Comes to Visit.
I'm Danielle Elliott Smith, andit has, as always, been a joy to
have you here with us.
We so hope we've given you somelove and hope and magic for this
period of time in your life.
Take some time and share thisepisode with someone you know
who needs to hear this versionof hope.
And until we see you again,please take very good care of
(34:18):
you.
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