March 9, 2025 • 63 mins
Where do we find hope when systems are breaking down around us? Dr. Dominica McBride offers a profound answer: in the courage to love and connect with each other.
Drawing from her family's dramatic journey from Haiti to America—her grandfather was a military leader who rescued people from the Parsley Massacre before fleeing Duvalier's regime—McBride reveals how historical trauma travels through generations. This ancestral understanding now shapes her revolutionary work as founder of the Become Center, where community psychology meets social justice.
The conversation explores her groundbreaking "Courage to Love" initiative in Chicago, which tackled infant mortality rates by building neighborhood connections. The results were transformative—bringing together residents who hadn't connected in forty years, creating what participants described as "nothing short of magical." This approach offers a powerful model for addressing collective trauma through community healing rather than individual interventions alone.
McBride shares scientific evidence that our bodies physically respond to both oppression and love. Research shows it takes five to six positive interactions to overcome just one negative experience, highlighting why building loving communities matters so much in our current climate of fear and division. As she puts it, "One way to disguise power is by keeping people separate."
Perhaps most striking is McBride's reframing of relationships: they aren't luxuries separate from survival—they are survival. When we recognize our interdependence, we discover our collective power to heal and transform our communities.
Whether you're feeling overwhelmed by current events or seeking practical ways to strengthen your community, this conversation offers both wisdom and actionable strategies for finding hope through connection. Subscribe now to join our community of hope dealers committed to building the future we deserve.
F.L.Y. L.I.B.R.E. a guide for healing and liberation can be purchased here: amzn.to/4iCzAAM
Get Dr. McBride's book "Becoming Changemakers" to explore more stories of resilience and community transformation. Connect with the Become Center at becomecenter.org or email dmcbride@becomecenter.org.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right recording hey buenas familia.
What is good I know what's good.
What's good is that I'm backfrom a restful both is break
(00:24):
where I was able to take alittle bit of rest, get a little
bit more resource, go deeperinto my practice of meditation,
of going inward and being incommunity, strengthening those
relationships of people that Ilove and care about.
So I hope that you, as you'relistening now, as we are, we're
(00:50):
still in winter and we arealmost starting to see the us as
(01:16):
the guest that you're about tolisten to, returning from the
solstice and being able tolaunch this next phase of Hope
Dealer by speaking to andlearning from my friend,
dominica Beck-Bride.
Dominica, we've been trying toget together for now months.
(01:36):
You were one of the firstpeople that I wanted on the
podcast, and so I am so gladthat you're a we were able to
make it happen.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Oh my goodness, me too, me too it means so much to
like, to me to be here with youin particular.
Um, I love you.
So this is, this is awesome.
And solstice.
So what did you do on thesolstice?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
or like to say oh to celebration was hibernate.
I uh, I slept early, I woke upearly.
I uh, I made a commitment to domy meditation and my yoga every
day.
Um, and so now I'm, you know,I'm a lot more flexible and
loose, um, and the quiet you's.
(02:22):
You know, it's easier to bequiet and to go inward when
everything around you is quiet,right, when the, when the trees
are not blooming, when it's dark, even at, you know, seven
o'clock in the morning, it'sstill dark.
So, you know, just listening toour surroundings, I'm fortunate
(02:46):
that able to be able to payattention to surroundings and be
able to act on the surroundings.
Now, you know, as I do that,and I look out my window when I
do my meditation, I still seepeople, my people, out there at
five or six o'clock in themorning, working, going to work.
So I know that it's a privilegethat I could do this while they
(03:09):
are out there hustling, andthey don't have that opportunity
to to rest Right and to restore.
That's, that's, that's what Idid.
That's what I did.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, it does sound veryrestorative and definitely like,
feel the privilege feast Right,Like.
And then there's also like thedifference between like
privilege and a right Right thatpeople don't know.
Like we all have the right torest and like plug for like rest
is resistance.
You know, that book reallychanged my thinking around rest,
(03:41):
but we all have the right torest and we need to like take
that right Right Like we're.
We're kind of conditioned tothink that we that we don't all
like have that right Right, Likethat it's, that it is a
privilege.
But I mean we all, youespecially work really hard.
You do so much for thecommunity, you do so much for
(04:04):
your people, for family, for,you know, for all of us, and you
deserve that.
You deserve that they're right.
And so do so many people whodon't think that they do have to
like, think that they have tobe on the grind or conditioned
right, Conditioned and forced tobe on that grind, but to like
to remember that we all have theright to rest.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
That's right and, as you see, dominica wants to jump
right in, and let me first do abrief introduction of Dr
Dominica McBride, who really is.
She's with us today.
She's a nationally recognizedpsychologist, a community
healing center practitioner, thefounder and the CEO of the
(04:48):
Become Center, which is anincredible organization that
I've partnered with and doesincredible work, and has been
doing this work not only inChicago with community-based
organizations in ourneighborhoods that are really
harmed by racialized capitalism,but also is there to help
(05:14):
restore those relationships andprovide agency to those peoples
and those communities.
And the author of a new bookthat came out, becoming
Changemakers my boss is in thisbook, janice Terrell from Public
Allies and incredible storiesof resilience and joy, and that
(05:38):
you will get to hear a littlebit more.
But just an overall incredibleperson week, but just an overall
incredible person.
And so, dominica, what I wantto do is just to ask you how you
are arriving today and ifthere's anything that you were
able to release or mourn duringthis winter season.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Oh, good question.
Wow, I don't do that enough,like thinking about what I need
to release and mourn and grieve.
You know, I think one of thethings that has to do with how
I'm arriving to and thanks forthe awesome introduction is just
trying to stay centered.
(06:21):
Like we talked before about ourmeditation practice, like you
know, coming into January, Ijust made a commitment that I'm
going to deepen in my meditationpractice, especially with
what's happening in our country,what's happening around the
world, just knowing that thepeople who are in charge of our
(06:42):
country now like, want us to beall over the place, right, want
us to be paying attention toevery which way they're pointing
in that it's up to us to reallystay centered.
So I started a meditationpractice and that keeps me
grounded.
So I do feel grounded at thesame time as whiplash with
(07:05):
everything that's going on, andI also feel very grateful, um,
grateful for life, grateful formy family, my kids, um, our home
, like, just staying ingratitude and uh, and then, what
am I letting go of?
It has to do with what we talkedabout just a couple minutes ago
(07:26):
rest is resistance.
I'm letting go of this ideathat I need to do, do, do, do,
do that I need to be on thegrind, that I need to be doing
something all the time, that Ineed to work really, really,
really.
I was working myself tosickness at the end of last year
and and I was like, no, I can't, I can't get there.
(07:48):
I need to focus on on balance.
So I'm, I'm letting go of thatpart of myself that says I need
to work myself to the bone, umand um, and I'm mourning that,
even though, like, I'm stilllike in this process of letting
go of that, of being willing to,like, look at my calendar and
delete.
(08:08):
You know, you know, just let goof certain things and be okay
with with doing nothingsometimes, because that's that's
what we need to quote unquotedo you know to have balance?
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, you know, I I hear that because I know that I
interact with people in our lineof work that not only have to
do, do and do to pay the bills.
Frankly, right to be able to notonly support yourself but
support the work that you'redoing.
But I think the thing that Ifind nagging in me and that was
(08:47):
something that was very apparentin my household with my partner
and our five kids is that thatdid not allow us to then build
and continually see what'shappening in our relationships,
(09:08):
in our familiar relationships,not be able to explore what's
happening in our familiarrelationships, not being able to
follow up with our personal andprofessional relationships,
because that took time and wewere so into the grind of the
transactional stuff that youhave to do, whether it's getting
(09:31):
contracts or doing prospectingor so on and so forth, and the
wake-up call for us right, andpart of what I had to release
was that, and part of what I hadto release was that business
was not going to be done asusual once after the election,
(10:08):
and so, in order for us tocenter our relationships, we had
to let go of this notion thatthings were going to be the same
as they were before and thathelped me really prioritize.
So when I do my practice in themorning, I'm very clear with me
that I'm preparing myself for anunknown of what's to happen.
I don't do it for self-care perse, I do it to prepare for, in
a sense, survival right.
So it becomes more of apolitical communal act than a
(10:31):
self-care act.
And so that was a paradigmshift and what I've noticed
again with my colleagues, withfriends, that there's many of us
that are still not therebecause we're still still have
not been able to let go orignore what happened and really
(10:55):
how this moment in time andhistory is very different.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, yeah, it's hard to let go of that, right.
We've been so conditioned to bein that space of reactivity or
of grind or of lack of holisticpreparation in the way that
you're talking about it, aboutmeditation and yoga, and like
(11:23):
these kinds of practices aspreparation, because it prepares
our mind, it prepares our body,it prepares our spirit for for
resilience, for centeredness,for being able to like be in
real relationship to being ableto to think clearly, it
regardless of whether it's likechaos or not to be able to see
clearly and to to feel what wefeel, so we can actually make
(11:44):
like good decisions.
You know, with everythingthat's happening, that's great.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, so let's get a little bit more into you.
Dominica, I, you know, I wantpeople to get to know you a
little bit better beyond.
You know the book cover and thebio and I got to tell you the
first time I learned about yourfamily's history and, frankly,
(12:10):
the journey from Haiti.
The question that came to mindwas I know that when your family
came from Haiti, then they cameto Michigan and the experience
that you had, growing up in apredominantly white community,
what I was interested in andwhat really the curiosity in me
(12:33):
came was like what were theconditions and what were the
experience family that you areaware of, that you are aware of
while they were in Haiti andearly on in their life, right In
(12:59):
terms of how that experience,traditions or rituals really
informed the journey of whereyou are now.
I almost want to get theMichigan part the middle out,
almost want to like get theMichigan part the middle out.
I really am curious of theorigin story of your
grandparents and then if you seeany connection or through lines
, to the work that you're doingnow?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah.
So my grandpa was the leader ofthe military of Haiti under the
president, before Duvalier.
So, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was like right under thepresident as far as like their
hierarchy of power, and he very,very like strong, very
(13:43):
committed, very like dedicatedman and he and it's also this is
in the book like he led theParsley, he led the rescue
people from the Parsley Massacreand, and so, for those of you
who might not be aware of theParsley Massacre, who might be
listening, the, the ParsleyMassacre was part of the
(14:05):
conflict between the DominicanRepublic and Haiti and the
president at the time, theDominican Republic wanted to get
rid of all Haitians within theDominican Republic, and so on
the border, people were veryblended, right?
You couldn't really tell who isHaitian, who is Dominican, and
so the only way you could tellwas the way that people
(14:25):
pronounce parsley, the way theypronounce parsley, and so they
would say like, okay, sayparsley.
When they say parsley the waythe Haitians would say parsley,
then they would get killed, likethat's why they call it the
parsley massacre.
So my grandpa led the rescuemission.
You know, amongst many otherthings, he was a writer.
He owned a bookstore at onepoint in Haiti, and so there's
(14:49):
already some of those throughlines.
But the conditions that ledthem to come here was the rising
violence in Haiti.
So when Duvalier came, tried tocome into power which he
ultimately did come into powerbut he came in and he threatened
everybody that was with theprevious regime, including my
(15:11):
grandfather, including mygrandmother.
My grandmother is originallyfrom France.
Moved to Haiti was actually.
That's another story.
I'll get to that in a second.
How she came to Haiti, but sheowned a little French restaurant
on a hill in Port-au-Prince andthey came to her restaurant and
they said when Duvalier becomespresident, we're coming for you
(15:31):
.
And my grandmother, her Frenchself, was like whatever, get out
of here, he's like becomepresident.
And three weeks later she hearson the radio Duvalier president
.
And she's like we gotta go tothe America.
On the radio, duvalierpresident.
And she's like we got to go tothe America.
So she was like okay, let's gorefuge.
And my grandpa was actuallylike no, you know, I'm not going
(15:53):
, like I'm staying, they're notgoing to run me out.
And so my grandpa stayed, mygrandpa, my grandma like it
shifted and my grandpa stayedand um, uh and he um, but
eventually, like they, they keptthreatening him and threatening
him with like physical violenceand he eventually came to the
(16:14):
united states too.
So they came like in violencebut, um, because of the, the
political and the the literal,like what was happening on the
ground, the violence that washappening, so they came and my
mom, like, witnessed a lot ofthat too, and so she had
memories, you know, of that.
Those are some of her earliesttraumas um was like community
(16:34):
violence, like in Haiti and, andyou know, coming to this
country.
My grandma also, like, camefrom like traumatic background
because my her dad, my greatgrandfather, actually kidnapped
her from away from her motherand set her on a ship to Haiti
(16:55):
from France so that her motherwould not have her.
So my grandma didn't meet hermom until she was like 40 years
old.
Yes, yeah, so there's a lot oftrauma like in my family's
history which influenced howthey just experienced life, of
course, and their trajectoryfrom country to country, right,
(17:17):
and eventually coming here tothe United States.
But even like starting over,you know, like like they had to
start completely over here, youknow, growing up poor because of
the transition, working theirway up to like survive and my
mom having to like learn, learna new language, like learn a new
(17:41):
culture, you know, navigate,all of that but they made it.
I mean, like my grandpa endedup doing tutoring, like tutoring
people in French, you know,like he just has a love for like
language, for books, forwriting, you know that kind of
deepened or sustained throughall of the immigration, all of
(18:03):
the shifts and changes.
So as far as how thatinfluences my work now, it's
definitely like responding totrauma, like there's a healing
focus, there's an explicithealing focus for community
healing and like embedding thehealing not only one-to-one and
(18:26):
I'm a psychologist, I used to bea not only one-to-one and I'm a
psychologist.
I used to be a therapist doinglike one-to-one therapy, family
therapy, couples therapy, butnow it's really like seeing the
psychological practices on thecommunity level and applying
that to like groups of people orprocesses or programs.
So it's like communitypsychology lens and so with with
(18:47):
that, like you know, what doesit mean to heal in community and
what does it mean tocollectively heal and how does
that look like?
What interventions are neededfor that?
Like what's the?
What's the data, that practices, the knowledge, you know, the
culture shifts that are neededfor that right, because even
though we're in a very differentcountry, you know the culture
shifts that are needed for thatright, because, even though
we're in a very differentcountry, you know.
(19:08):
Then then, hey, we're stilldealing with like community
violence, they're still dealingwith a lot of trauma, collective
trauma, especially now, likewith all of this craziness, and
also like through COVID, right,and so there's there's a lot of
that frame that comes into thework around healing, around how
do we heal collectively, how isit embedded in community?
(19:29):
And then also like contextually,like paying attention to the
context in the community work,just knowing that this level of
like socio-political dynamicsdeeply affects people on the
ground, it deeply affects ourlives and we need to like know
how that, how that does affectour lives and and tend to it.
(19:51):
You know whether whether it'sthrough advocacy or activism or
was through people's own likehealing journey, but knowing
that not just like interpersonaltrauma or or individual like
trauma influences us, but likethe trauma of the collective,
just as like as deep impacts,just like you know.
But like the trauma of thecollective just has like as deep
impacts, just like you know,when the reason why my family
came to this country right, likeit was because of that, like
(20:12):
collective sociopoliticalcontext that then traumatized
them Right, which led to them toto find refuge.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, yeah, no, and thank you for for explaining it
that way.
You know, I asked that questionbecause last year I went on a
fellowship to Mexico with agroup of Mexicans in the arts to
(20:41):
develop relationships betweenMexican leaders in Mexico and
then Mexican leaders here in theUnited States, and there was a
curandero there and one of thequestions that she asked was
Think about your family and whathappened to your family about
(21:03):
100 years ago.
Think about it, write about it.
And you know she was like.
My belief is that that traumaand that resilience that
happened to your grandparentsit's something that is still
carried with you and it'ssomething that is actually
(21:23):
informs how you respond to thismoment in time.
States for the World War IIeffort.
So he was contracted by theDepartment of Commerce, came to
(21:50):
the States, picked cotton andfruit in California and then he
was one of the people that weredeported.
One million Mexicans weredeported in Operation Webpack
deported.
One million Mexicans weredeported in Operation Webpack.
But 100 years ago what happenedwas that the US threatened to
(22:15):
invade Mexico and so when mygrandfather was a child, the
threat of US invasion loomed atlarge within the Mexican society
.
And so one of his responses andthe responses of many Mexicans
were if that happens, we stillneed to provide for our family,
and that was one of the reasonsa lot of Mexicans came to the
United States in the 40s andthen my father followed after my
(22:40):
grandfather and came to Chicagoin the 70s.
But it was from that threat thatwas felt of another US invasion
, because, remember, that wouldhave been the second US invasion
, where the first US invasionresulted in the occupation and
theft of 50% of Mexicanterritory, right.
(23:02):
So that one, that trauma of theuncertainty and the threat of
an invasion.
But then, secondly, you know,to your you know, kind of
similar to what you're saying,is that then my parents became,
and my grandfather, one of themost resourceful and resilient
(23:26):
people I ever got, I ever met, Iever known, so you know, like I
could fix anything in the houseright like you know, you know,
you know Ceci is like you are aMexican and and I could fix
(23:48):
stuff and and also I always I'mvery well attuned when people
feel like they don't belong andtry to create a space of
belonging.
Create a space of belongingbecause my grandfather and my
father, when they came to thiscountry, were always felt like
(24:11):
they did not belong and werealways under threat of
deportation or criminalization.
So that grandparent experiencethat like kind of a hundred year
experience I believe thatactually has something is still
within us and what we're doingand how we're responding has
something to do with what we'redoing right now.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, I totally agree , and there's research to back
that up too.
But that's an amazing storyfrom, like the experience that
they had in Mexico which droveor drove them here, and then how
it's showing up for you todaydrove them here and then how
it's showing up for you today.
And so there's like epigenetics, right, like the study of
(24:51):
epigenetics just proves thatpoint right.
Like if we have, like sevengenerations ago, go like
experience a famine, then thosepeople who are connected to
those people who experienced thefamine have higher rates of
diabetes.
You know, like there's actuallyphysiological changes in their
ancestors or those those peoplewho are from those ancestors,
right, and so like the same goesfor, like behavior and trauma
(25:14):
and you know, other types ofexperiences.
Yeah, I totally, I totally seethat and feel that and there's
times when I have been connectedto my pain in ways that I know
is not connected to this life.
You know, like some of the painfeels like it's very old, old
(25:37):
pain, right, like I'm feelinglike what my grandmother felt,
you know, I'm feeling like mygreat grandmother.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
you know I'm feeling like when do you feel that?
How does that show up for you?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
it's very hard to put into words, it's very, but I
can actually feel in in placesin my body and when I like, okay
, I can like when I touch thatspot, that's like like 10, and I
don't mean like physicallytouch that spot, but when I
emotionally touch that spot, butthat is within, you know, my,
my physical being, my physicalself, like it's very tender,
(26:13):
it's, it's raw, but it's alsolike it's hard for me to put
into words, but I could tellit's connected across space and
time to put into words, but Icould tell it's connected across
space and time, right, likeit's not only my pain but it's,
it's, it's like located in mybody.
If you've ever done well, I meanyou're, you're a yogi, you know
like when, when you're doingyoga and you do certain
(26:34):
positions, it unlocks emotions,right, like, like for me, it's
in my hips and when I do, likethe pigeon pose, which is very
much like opening the hips, likeoh, I'm boohooing on the ground
, I just cry.
You don't know why, you know,but just tears are coming out of
me, like, ok, I need to release, right, it's, it's stored there
(26:55):
but like our cells, just likean epigenetics, it like stores
the knowledge and material andexperiences from the previous
generations and passes that on.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, yeah, we call that Indian knowledge,
indigenous knowledge.
Yeah, like indigenous knowledge, we just know.
We just know.
Going back to what youmentioned earlier about this
moment in time, going back towhat you mentioned earlier about
(27:50):
this moment in time, I'm verycurious you know right now, with
this moment in time that we'reliving through, right now.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
So, like, when people say, like, talk about like
history repeats itself, you know, I, I think humanity
experiences cycles and and thosecycles are there to teach us
different lessons, right, and Ialso think about destruction and
creation and how, how, likecollective suffering and
(28:20):
suffering period, then, like,can give way to new ways of
thinking, new ways of being,like growth, right, either
suffering is going to destroy usor it's going to force us to
create something different,right, and I feel like you know
that's that happens on anindividual level, but it also
happens on a collective level,and we're in this time of
(28:42):
destruction, like, collectively,obviously, like policies,
institutions are being literallydestroyed right now, on purpose
, strategically or not sostrategically, the swipe of a
pen gone right, and so what thatcalls for us who are
experiencing the sufferingbecause of it, like it's causing
(29:02):
us, or I should say calling us,to think about.
Like, what do we need to create?
Right, like this structure canbreed creation.
And so, like, what is it thatwe need to create collectively?
That is, for us, a lot of thesesystems and policies and
structures, like, while theymight look, like they might be
for us, like the education, youknow, like public safety, police
(29:27):
.
All of that might look likeeven healthcare.
Right, it might look likethey're for our well-being, but
there's elements, like intrinsicelements, in a lot of these
systems that are built into thiscountry, that are destructive.
They are not for our will,they're antithetical to our
wellbeing.
Right and for a system, likethe nature of a system, is to
(29:49):
perpetuate itself, and so thosesystems are going to perpetuate
their original intent,regardless of their change or
not.
Right it's, and so to let themgo right.
We don't want to like to bedestroyed like this, but but
like, like it's calling us into,like what can we create?
That is from its root, it's forus, it's for us, it's by us, we
(30:12):
, it's for our well-being, youknow.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So I feel like it's a time like calling us into
creation, like as we're sayingthis and I think you, I'm glad
that you have a very clearvision of what it could mean for
us right Versus wallowing in,how terrible things are and how
everything because they areright.
(30:36):
Things are chaotic anduncertain and terrible, but you
have this clear vision, I'massuming, because of just the
deep work that you've been doingwith community members and with
organizations in trying toinfluence the systems that are
(30:57):
not necessarily able to provideor be responsive to the real
needs of people.
I'm curious for you to give mean example or a story about a
project or a healing practicethat emerged and came out of the
(31:19):
work that you've done incommunities that really could
show you the possibility of whatwe could create that's
different from the systems thatwe have right now.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, so one is a collaborative that we're a part
of called Courage to Love, andit's all about I love that name.
Yeah, it's a great name rightCourage to Love.
We might as well just keepsaying that Courage to Love,
Courage to Love.
That'll help us in this time.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
It is.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, it came from a report in like I forget it was
like 2005, but around infantmortality, and it was talking
about how there's the disparity,like, between black and white
moms and babies.
Right, Baby, black babies dieat a much higher rate, um,
within their first year thanthan white babies, and they're
(32:14):
sort of like, okay, what's thereason for that?
Why?
Why are we seeing that?
Um, and when the researchlooked at everything equal right
, equal education, equalsocioeconomic status, equal pre
prenatal care and resources wheneverything was equal, we still
saw a disparity.
(32:34):
It's like, wait, everything isequal.
Why are we still seeing thisdisparity?
And the finding was that we'restill seeing a disparity because
of the overarching impact ofthe context of oppression, right
, the context of oppression, ofracism, of discrimination and
(32:56):
its effects on the body.
And so if we're in anenvironment that is unkind, if
we're in an environment that'soppressive, if we're in an
environment that has thesemessages and even flat out
policies that keep people in acertain place, right then, or
(33:17):
devalue or dehumanize people,like we, our bodies feel it.
You know it's uh, kind ofrelated to like what we're
talking about before, but like,our, our bodies experience it
and even like, and this is justlike one micro example of this.
Like you have a couple and umone person uh, gives a lot of
(33:41):
like, scowling, like looks atthe other person.
The other person gets sick moreoften, right, like it's it's
the energy right.
It's the, it's the energy.
It's like we are built to besocial, right, we're, we're
social creatures and our bodiesare, are operate that way, to be
social creatures.
And so when we are pushed outof a group, you know whether
(34:05):
it's like you're pushed out of arelationship or you're pushed
out of our group.
Our physiology then reacts tothat Right, and a lot of times
it reacts to that in likenegative ways, Right, when it's
a negative interaction, and evenlike the opposite, the positive
.
So people like breast cancerpatients, when they received a
(34:27):
call from a nurse, just 20minutes, 20 minute call from a
nurse just checking on them, hey, how you doing Once a week,
they had better prognosis thanthose that did it.
Right, the simple act of beingloved, right, of being cared for
just 20 minutes once a week,like shifted how their body
responded, you know to to thatdisease.
(34:48):
So the same goes for infantmortality right, like the mother
is carrying the infant and theinfant is going to to the
infant's development, is goingto react to like how healthy or
not you know the the mom is.
And so we're in an environmentwhere that the person we can
call this country, you know, oror the practices, culture around
(35:10):
us, a person.
They're scowling at us, youknow, they're scowling at us,
they're calling us names, allthat.
Our bodies are going to reactto that, right, and so we're
like you have a whole group ofpeople.
That's like in this environmentwhere the bodies are reacting
to this, you know, in these ways.
And then, of course, like thebaby, then is is compromised,
(35:30):
but the, when they study, likethe courage to love, what they
found was part of the antidotewas love.
That's like God's courage tolove, right, part of the
antidote.
Like I said with the breastcancer patients, right, the
antidote was care, was love, andso love and care helps to
strengthen our bodies.
So the intervention or thecollaborative that we're a part
(35:51):
of with the Courage to Love isall about like, how do we build
loving assets around moms,around babies, around families,
right, so that they can bestrong, you know, holistically,
around babies, around families,right, so that they can be
strong, you know, whole,holistically, holistically
strong, and so part of it, um,we did this in Auburn, gresham,
(36:12):
with the Southside community, um, here in Chicago and as you
know, and um, and in this we uhpart of what we did, we first
asked people like you know why,in this particular community had
relatively high rates of infantmortality.
At the time it was like thethird highest.
Now it's like the fifth highestin mortality rate in Chicago of
(36:32):
all 77 communities.
And so we asked parents,caregivers, you know why is it
like, why we see this, thisdynamic here, you know why do
you think?
What are you, what are thestressors?
And from the basic stressors oflike finances, you know, you
know experiencing of, of likeperception of violence, things
(36:53):
like that, it was isolation fromneighbors that was like
stressful and concerning right,isolation.
We get to that again like beingpushed out, like socially Right
, but they're talking about evenin their community.
They had once felt like a veryclose-knit community that had
been dissolved over time.
A lot of it was sociopolitical,like you know, interferences
dissolving the social fabric ofthe neighborhood, but they had.
(37:18):
That was one of the stressors.
And so what we did as acollaborative this was the
collaborative organizations ofleaders, communities, residents
in this.
So what we did was say like, ok, we're going to to bring
together residents to developout interventions on their
(37:38):
blocks around social cohesion,like how do we build more, more
relationships, more cohesion,like you know, on the blocks,
where people are more connected.
And so, over the course of ayear, we met and we built
beloved community, even witheach other.
We talked about our own trauma,our own experiences, our own
healing, the way we, the way weshow up as leaders, the way we
(37:59):
don't show up as leaders whatdoes love mean to us?
You know how?
How does how does that interact?
What do we appreciate about?
Appreciate about each other?
Right, we really created, likeyou know, beloved community,
like in in the group, and then,through the training that that
we did together, the people whoare a part of it went out and
(38:20):
they created these social code,these like, like you know,
moments or or you knowintervention last you, dominica,
(39:06):
can you?
hear me.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Can you hear me, Dominica?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Hey, dominica.
So, um, so they came togetherand they developed social, the
intervention for social cohesionlike to build more
relationships on their blocks,and so one group um, they were
actually part of a black clubthat had been going for 40 years
, but they decided to be a partof this to do more social
(40:01):
cohesion focus work, and theysaid that they went out and they
did this.
They got their block togetherand they engaged neighbors in
ways that they hadn't before andthey said that they moved as a
unit in ways that they had neverdone before in all 40 years.
There's a woman that had been apart of it for 40 years and she
(40:21):
said we've never moved likethis.
We've never moved together likethis in the same direction, the
same time, you know ascohesively.
And then they were able to getpeople like young, old, from
different walks of life out ontheir out on their block in
relationship, and even one womanwho hadn't been outside of her
house for two years, and evenone woman who hadn't been
(40:42):
outside of her house for twoyears.
They were able to get her outin the mix of things you know in
relationship, interacting.
It was beautiful and the womanwho had been a part of this for
like 40 years.
She said it was nothing shortof magical, like what they did,
how they came together, whatthey were able to do did how
(41:04):
they came together, what theywere able to do.
Another group they came and theyengaged a hundred families you
know together to come togetherin like with the, in like almost
like a family reunion, althoughthey weren't they weren't
technically family members, butthey came together like in
connection and fun, in just likethis commitment towards a
(41:25):
relationship and like upliftingthe family.
So it was beautiful.
But they, like, they designedthese, these interventions,
these moments, these experiencesand this.
It had like this beautifulripple effect.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
And then now we're doing Dominica, but it seems
like you have the antidote youcreated with these neighbors, in
these communities, the antidoteto the fear and the
divisiveness and the inactionthat so many people are
(42:00):
experiencing.
The inaction that so manypeople are experiencing.
I mean, it seems like theanswer is there, right, the
courage to love is there.
My question is like why is thatso hard to maintain, to
(42:24):
maintain, and what can we do?
Or what should we?
How should we think about notonly starting that work but
being able to maintain that work, to be able to make it?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, so one of the reasons why it's hard to
maintain like, the sense of like, one of the reasons why it's
hard to maintain like the senseof, like, love of connection, is
that we are bombarded withnegative messages.
We're invited these messages tobe afraid that things are
scarce, to fear your neighbor,you know, to fear like this
(42:56):
group that might be differentthan you in some way.
Right, and a lot of it is false.
It's just like fear mongeringand propaganda and lies and the
and that's a way for people toget power, right, like when a
group or groups cannot cometogether.
Like we're much more powerfultogether than we are apart,
right, you look at just anything, a forest, whatever.
(43:19):
It's much more powerful, likewhen it's connected to other
things, other beings, and so aone way to maintain or to
disguise power is by keepingpeople separate.
And the way the brain works,which is interesting, is that it
like absorbs negative, right,like it absorbs things that are
(43:41):
like based on fear or negativity, and it could, just as a
protective mechanism, right, soit's extra sensitive to the
negative to protect itself as abody, right, it wants to survive
, and so it takes five to sixpositives to overcome one
negative, right, like, you haveone negative, it takes five to
six positives, and what are weunbombarded with in the media
(44:03):
and the news and movies?
Yeah, just bad shit, and like,there's like no counter positive
, right, and so that's.
It makes it really difficult tokeep on doing this work when,
like, we're getting so manymessages about fear, which is
already triggering things thatare never like our brains are
naturally like trying to lookout for, like, but things to
fear, things that are never likeour brains are naturally like
(44:24):
trying to look out for, like,put things to fear even if
they're not real.
Right, like our body stillthinks like, oh, there's
something new to fear, and so wehave to overcome that, like
through relationship.
Right, like, you know, justbeing super, super committed and
you said this earlier right,like you're you to be in
relationship with people and toput that as a higher priority,
(44:45):
and so that's part of what weneed to do is, sort of like,
putting each other as a highpriority on our list.
We often think thatrelationships are different than
survival.
Right, like, survival is overhere and we need to work really
hard, we need to pay our bills,we need to get the money for
food, all of that and thenrelationships are over here.
But really, like, the body saysno, we need relationships to
(45:07):
survive, so we need to quicklyput those together.
Like you know, in order tosurvive and especially in order
to thrive, we need each other,we need relationships, and so
deepening into that andcommitting to that as a priority
is huge, to that, andcommitting to that as a priority
is huge.
Committing to relationship,committing to love, you know,
like let's, like, yeah, let'shave the courage to love and
(45:28):
commit to it.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
You know, in our everyday practice, yeah, I love
the line I wrote it down.
You know, one way to disguisepower is by separating us.
Right, that is.
That is beautiful, I think,truth-telling of one recognizing
(45:50):
that we have power and whenwe're together in relationship,
we become even more powerful.
But how we disguise it is byputting out negative messages
(46:15):
and otherizing to brain thinkwe're protecting ourselves, but
we're in actuality, makingourselves more vulnerable, right
, and one of the things Right.
Right, that's what's happeningand one of the things that I
think about right now.
You know, as we think and yousaid earlier, history, right,
we're in this moment in timewhere you can look at different
times in the history of thiscountry, where, whether it's
(46:38):
what was done during the CivilWar and the Emancipation
Proclamation and birthrightcitizenship to enslaved African
Americans, and then the backlashagainst Reconstruction, jim
Crow, and then now, you know,after the 1619 and some of the
(47:04):
rights that started to beexercised, now we see this
incredible backlash, whiteidentity politics and extremists
that have a real possibility ofnot only rolling back civil
rights but actually causingphysical and societal harm
(47:29):
against people.
If we protest, right, if wedefend ourselves, if we respond,
respond collectively to healourselves in this collective
trauma.
So for me, you know, thequestion that I've been
grappling with in this area, inthis moment in history, is like
(47:55):
how can we engage people thathave been benefiting from
systems of oppression to be ableto engage in their own healing
during this time?
Right, because if we have timeand time again, if we see people
(48:16):
like the Proud Boys and all ofthese other folks that if you
look, look at them and youprobably could do a pretty good
psychological profile on thatright.
Like there's no love at home,like there's some a lot of
inadequate inadequacy thatthey're experiencing, they
probably don't have positivebonding relationships with
(48:37):
people that they were supposedto.
So so how do we engage thoseindividuals and I'm not saying
necessarily the Proud Boys, butpeople that benefit from this to
be able to understand thatbeing in relationship with those
(49:00):
that including themselves right, because they've been
traumatized but they've justbeen benefiting from a system of
oppression how there is a bondand a benefit for them to be a
part of these loving communities.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Yeah, that's a really important question Like so many
people should be grappling withright now, right, because
there's like so much more thatthat can, should and does like
bring us together than you know,than like separates us.
And so I grew up in apredominantly white rural town
in Michigan, and so my heart iswith people who are, like you
(49:49):
know, displaced, marginalized inany way, whether it's by color,
whether it's by sexuality,whether it's by class, you know,
whether it's by region, youknow, like I'm with people that,
like, have been like outcast ordisplaced or, you know, shut
out from society in some way.
And you know, whether it's myregion, you know, like I'm with
people that, like, have beenlike outcasts or displaced or,
you know, shut out from societyin some way.
And you know, and growing up inin white rural America, um,
(50:10):
there's a lot of like poor whitepeople that are shut out, right
, and and that are are harmed inmany ways by society.
And you know, know,interpersonally, of course.
And with that, I think part ofit is for many of them to see
that they're not actuallybenefiting, like they're
(50:32):
benefiting in some ways, right,they're not as downtrodden as
like Black people are, like youknow, immigrants are right now,
or you know, like they don'thave to deal with.
These are, like you know,immigrants are right now, or you
know, like they don't have todeal with these like added
hurdles in society, but there'sstill, you know, these hidden,
invisible ways that they're keptdown, and I'm thinking of
speaking of, like you know, poorwhite people in particular,
(50:52):
right now.
But there's other, you knowother ways of being, like,
oppressed that are invisibleright now, and I think that that
so many of them need to seethat there there are ways that
they are being being harmed bythe, the overall, like structure
(51:16):
, by society.
You know, in ways that theydon't necessarily like,
acknowledge, but are so real totheir day to day, to their, to
their children, to the schools,to, like you know, how they're
able to, to survive and makemoney and like all of that, like
their whole livelihood isinfluenced by this, and it's
(51:36):
it's blamed on black people oron immigrants, or you know,
whatever it's blamed, likethough these people are your
problem.
No, these people are not yourproblem.
The people that are sayingthese people are your problem
are your problem.
You know, even though theymight look like you, they're
still your problem, you know.
And so in being able to, like,start to take the veil off and
(52:02):
see that how this game is beingplayed by them, like the game
being played, like, oh, thesepeople are different, they're
the problem.
If only they were not here thenyour life would be great.
No, no, your life is actuallygoing to get worse if we're not
here, you know.
And so I think part of it islike seeing these connections
(52:24):
and commonalities and experienceand struggle and pain, and,
like this human experience inthis country, like seeing across
these quote unquote lines,right, which have been been
created, and to to really cometogether with some, like, common
goals that benefit all of ourcommunities, right, and so I
(52:45):
feel like that's one of thethings that we need to do in
order to heal across, for themto heal, you know, and for us to
be able to galvanize thatcollective power, to be able to
move in ways that benefit all ofus.
All of us that have, like, beenkept out of certain rooms, all
of us who have been marginalized, all of us who have been, like
(53:08):
you know, struggling in waysthat we don't need to struggle,
right, there's ways that we needto struggle as humans that are
just part of being human, right,like you know, like the growth
process, they're always going tobe growing brains, there's
always going to be pregnant,childbirth, there's always going
to be breakups.
There's always going to be likethese ways that we struggle
because we're just human, butthen there's all these added
(53:28):
ways that we're struggling, thatwe don't have to struggle, but
there these struggles are put inour way in order for other
people to feel more powerful,right, like, to make more money,
to feel, feel better aboutthemselves.
So they put these arbitrarystruggles in the way, right, and
for them to be able to seethese arbitrary struggles and
why they're there and howthey're harmed by them, just
(53:52):
like you know, so many of us, somany others are also harmed
from it.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
I think you know, as I hear youspeaking, it just becomes so
apparent that the truth tellingthat needs to be told.
At this moment, the majority oftruth is actually going to sink
in and, unfortunately,hopefully it's not when other
(54:30):
benefits are being taken awayand their standard of living
gets drops dramatically, becausemy guess is that they're going
to continue to blame you know,the other versus the people that
right now are in charge ofthose areas.
So my last question for you isyou know, as you know, this is
(54:52):
called Hope Dealer and I want toshare what's giving me hope
right now, and we'd love for youto share what is it and, even
though we are in that dark times, what's giving you hope and
what's giving me hope right now.
You know, ever since um, thenew year, started, um in my
(55:12):
community and across the country, I've been just starting to see
um, now that the veil come off,as you, as you said, people
really looking at instead ofresisting, just resisting.
It's about building right.
So building mutual aid networksagain, building ice watches and
(55:35):
communities of care, buildingand connecting with friends and
family, just on a check-in basis, even if it's just a text
message regularly to see howpeople are doing, being able to
see the role that relationships,community and response how
(55:57):
important those things are, andthat's what's giving me hope,
how important those things areand that's what's given me hope.
And one of the areas that Ijust get inspiration from is
hearing the stories of justpeople and leaders who have been
doing this for a long time andthose that just made you know an
(56:21):
incredible commitment to liftup that work.
So some of those people are inyour book, Becoming Changemakers
and just the way that you know,the leaders that you've
interviewed and those that arein our communities that are
doing this work, and those thatare in our communities that are
(56:44):
doing this work.
For me, that's what's giving mehope that we're focusing on
building and that we're focusingon how we could let go of
previous beats if we had any andreally focus on repairing the
relationships and buildingstronger relationships in our
lives.
So what's giving you hope rightnow, Dominique?
Speaker 2 (57:01):
I love that.
Yeah, yeah, similarly, yeah, alot of that gives me a lot of
hope too.
Yeah, the women in the bookhave been doing amazing work in
their history currently.
How they, what they've survivedand how they continue to have
resilience and how they continueto create more community
(57:22):
resilience, um, through theirstory.
So their stories definitelygive me a lot of hope, um, from
the past and to the future.
Um, personally, my kids give mea lot of hope.
Like you know, regardless ofwhat's happening on the news
around us.
You know they're still likelaughing and playing, and you
know sibling having littlesibling rivalries, and you know
they're still like laughing andplaying and you know sibling
having little sibling rivalries,and you know like it's still
(57:44):
like kid time, you know.
And so that gives me a lot ofjoy, which also, like fuels my
hope.
And then we're working with thisgroup in Auburn, gresham.
It's a group of residentsleaders coming together to
innovate, to innovate a newsystem, and in this case it's
(58:06):
about youth, and they decided tojust build a system of social
development and how to createthese structures and practices
around young people that reallyrebuild the village.
So we have, so young people areconnected in ways that they
need to be connected for everyneed and also for their own
(58:26):
potential and leadership.
And you know, thriving, youknow as a young person to an
adult.
So they're brilliant, like whatthey what the ideas that they
come up with, the drive thatthey have, the commitment that
they have to the community.
So that's a lot of hope.
That gives me hope on a regularbasis too.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
And, finally, what gives me hope is that you're out
there doing this work and,again, I firmly believe that the
work that you're doing withcommunities is the antidote to
what we need right now.
So if we have listeners thatwant to reach out to you, we'll
put the book link on the shownotes of how can they reach out
(59:08):
to you and the Become Center tobe able to partner with you in
their project or learning aboutyour projects, so we could
continue to rebuild the futurethat we deserve and that we
believe will help us.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Yeah, so our website is becomecenterorg and my email
address is dmcbride atbecomecenterorg.
So, yeah, feel free to shoot mea note and and to, um, yeah,
visit our webpage, sign up forour newsletter.
We also have an instagramlinkedin.
(59:47):
Uh, you can follow us there.
Be sure to buy the book,because it there's a lot of hope
.
There's a lot of hope dealingin that book with the stories
from from these women about bebecoming change makers.
Um, and uh, yeah, look forwardto hearing from anybody who
wants to chat.
Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Well, thank you again , dominica.
I really really appreciate thisfor your time.
Now I'm going to be having acheesy grin in my face all day.
My day just started, butusually by the end of the day
you're like beat down.
So I think today is going to bea little bit different because
(01:00:25):
of our conversation.
Good to see you again andlooking forward to seeing you
again.
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
You me too, me too.
You give me a lot of hope aswell.
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Thank you, thank you.
All right recording hey buenas familia.
What is good I know what's good.
What's good is that I'm backfrom a restful both is break
(00:24):
where I was able to take alittle bit of rest, get a little
bit more resource, go deeperinto my practice of meditation,
of going inward and being incommunity, strengthening those
relationships of people that Ilove and care about.
So I hope that you, as you'relistening now, as we are, we're
(00:50):
still in winter and we arealmost starting to see the us as
(01:16):
the guest that you're about tolisten to, returning from the
solstice and being able tolaunch this next phase of Hope
Dealer by speaking to andlearning from my friend,
dominica Beck-Bride.
Dominica, we've been trying toget together for now months.
(01:36):
You were one of the firstpeople that I wanted on the
podcast, and so I am so gladthat you're a we were able to
make it happen.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Oh my goodness, me too, me too it means so much to
like, to me to be here with youin particular.
Um, I love you.
So this is, this is awesome.
And solstice.
So what did you do on thesolstice?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
or like to say oh to celebration was hibernate.
I uh, I slept early, I woke upearly.
I uh, I made a commitment to domy meditation and my yoga every
day.
Um, and so now I'm, you know,I'm a lot more flexible and
loose, um, and the quiet you's.
(02:22):
You know, it's easier to bequiet and to go inward when
everything around you is quiet,right, when the, when the trees
are not blooming, when it's dark, even at, you know, seven
o'clock in the morning, it'sstill dark.
So, you know, just listening toour surroundings, I'm fortunate
(02:46):
that able to be able to payattention to surroundings and be
able to act on the surroundings.
Now, you know, as I do that,and I look out my window when I
do my meditation, I still seepeople, my people, out there at
five or six o'clock in themorning, working, going to work.
So I know that it's a privilegethat I could do this while they
(03:09):
are out there hustling, andthey don't have that opportunity
to to rest Right and to restore.
That's, that's, that's what Idid.
That's what I did.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Oh, my goodness.
Well, it does sound veryrestorative and definitely like,
feel the privilege feast Right,Like.
And then there's also like thedifference between like
privilege and a right Right thatpeople don't know.
Like we all have the right torest and like plug for like rest
is resistance.
You know, that book reallychanged my thinking around rest,
(03:41):
but we all have the right torest and we need to like take
that right Right Like we're.
We're kind of conditioned tothink that we that we don't all
like have that right Right, Likethat it's, that it is a
privilege.
But I mean we all, youespecially work really hard.
You do so much for thecommunity, you do so much for
(04:04):
your people, for family, for,you know, for all of us, and you
deserve that.
You deserve that they're right.
And so do so many people whodon't think that they do have to
like, think that they have tobe on the grind or conditioned
right, Conditioned and forced tobe on that grind, but to like
to remember that we all have theright to rest.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
That's right and, as you see, dominica wants to jump
right in, and let me first do abrief introduction of Dr
Dominica McBride, who really is.
She's with us today.
She's a nationally recognizedpsychologist, a community
healing center practitioner, thefounder and the CEO of the
(04:48):
Become Center, which is anincredible organization that
I've partnered with and doesincredible work, and has been
doing this work not only inChicago with community-based
organizations in ourneighborhoods that are really
harmed by racialized capitalism,but also is there to help
(05:14):
restore those relationships andprovide agency to those peoples
and those communities.
And the author of a new bookthat came out, becoming
Changemakers my boss is in thisbook, janice Terrell from Public
Allies and incredible storiesof resilience and joy, and that
(05:38):
you will get to hear a littlebit more.
But just an overall incredibleperson week, but just an overall
incredible person.
And so, dominica, what I wantto do is just to ask you how you
are arriving today and ifthere's anything that you were
able to release or mourn duringthis winter season.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Oh, good question.
Wow, I don't do that enough,like thinking about what I need
to release and mourn and grieve.
You know, I think one of thethings that has to do with how
I'm arriving to and thanks forthe awesome introduction is just
trying to stay centered.
(06:21):
Like we talked before about ourmeditation practice, like you
know, coming into January, Ijust made a commitment that I'm
going to deepen in my meditationpractice, especially with
what's happening in our country,what's happening around the
world, just knowing that thepeople who are in charge of our
(06:42):
country now like, want us to beall over the place, right, want
us to be paying attention toevery which way they're pointing
in that it's up to us to reallystay centered.
So I started a meditationpractice and that keeps me
grounded.
So I do feel grounded at thesame time as whiplash with
(07:05):
everything that's going on, andI also feel very grateful, um,
grateful for life, grateful formy family, my kids, um, our home
, like, just staying ingratitude and uh, and then, what
am I letting go of?
It has to do with what we talkedabout just a couple minutes ago
(07:26):
rest is resistance.
I'm letting go of this ideathat I need to do, do, do, do,
do that I need to be on thegrind, that I need to be doing
something all the time, that Ineed to work really, really,
really.
I was working myself tosickness at the end of last year
and and I was like, no, I can't, I can't get there.
(07:48):
I need to focus on on balance.
So I'm, I'm letting go of thatpart of myself that says I need
to work myself to the bone, umand um, and I'm mourning that,
even though, like, I'm stilllike in this process of letting
go of that, of being willing to,like, look at my calendar and
delete.
(08:08):
You know, you know, just let goof certain things and be okay
with with doing nothingsometimes, because that's that's
what we need to quote unquotedo you know to have balance?
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, you know, I I hear that because I know that I
interact with people in our lineof work that not only have to
do, do and do to pay the bills.
Frankly, right to be able to notonly support yourself but
support the work that you'redoing.
But I think the thing that Ifind nagging in me and that was
(08:47):
something that was very apparentin my household with my partner
and our five kids is that thatdid not allow us to then build
and continually see what'shappening in our relationships,
(09:08):
in our familiar relationships,not be able to explore what's
happening in our familiarrelationships, not being able to
follow up with our personal andprofessional relationships,
because that took time and wewere so into the grind of the
transactional stuff that youhave to do, whether it's getting
(09:31):
contracts or doing prospectingor so on and so forth, and the
wake-up call for us right, andpart of what I had to release
was that, and part of what I hadto release was that business
was not going to be done asusual once after the election,
(10:08):
and so, in order for us tocenter our relationships, we had
to let go of this notion thatthings were going to be the same
as they were before and thathelped me really prioritize.
So when I do my practice in themorning, I'm very clear with me
that I'm preparing myself for anunknown of what's to happen.
I don't do it for self-care perse, I do it to prepare for, in
a sense, survival right.
So it becomes more of apolitical communal act than a
(10:31):
self-care act.
And so that was a paradigmshift and what I've noticed
again with my colleagues, withfriends, that there's many of us
that are still not therebecause we're still still have
not been able to let go orignore what happened and really
(10:55):
how this moment in time andhistory is very different.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, yeah, it's hard to let go of that, right.
We've been so conditioned to bein that space of reactivity or
of grind or of lack of holisticpreparation in the way that
you're talking about it, aboutmeditation and yoga, and like
(11:23):
these kinds of practices aspreparation, because it prepares
our mind, it prepares our body,it prepares our spirit for for
resilience, for centeredness,for being able to like be in
real relationship to being ableto to think clearly, it
regardless of whether it's likechaos or not to be able to see
clearly and to to feel what wefeel, so we can actually make
(11:44):
like good decisions.
You know, with everythingthat's happening, that's great.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah, so let's get a little bit more into you.
Dominica, I, you know, I wantpeople to get to know you a
little bit better beyond.
You know the book cover and thebio and I got to tell you the
first time I learned about yourfamily's history and, frankly,
(12:10):
the journey from Haiti.
The question that came to mindwas I know that when your family
came from Haiti, then they cameto Michigan and the experience
that you had, growing up in apredominantly white community,
what I was interested in andwhat really the curiosity in me
(12:33):
came was like what were theconditions and what were the
experience family that you areaware of, that you are aware of
while they were in Haiti andearly on in their life, right In
(12:59):
terms of how that experience,traditions or rituals really
informed the journey of whereyou are now.
I almost want to get theMichigan part the middle out,
almost want to like get theMichigan part the middle out.
I really am curious of theorigin story of your
grandparents and then if you seeany connection or through lines
, to the work that you're doingnow?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah.
So my grandpa was the leader ofthe military of Haiti under the
president, before Duvalier.
So, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was like right under thepresident as far as like their
hierarchy of power, and he very,very like strong, very
(13:43):
committed, very like dedicatedman and he and it's also this is
in the book like he led theParsley, he led the rescue
people from the Parsley Massacreand, and so, for those of you
who might not be aware of theParsley Massacre, who might be
listening, the, the ParsleyMassacre was part of the
(14:05):
conflict between the DominicanRepublic and Haiti and the
president at the time, theDominican Republic wanted to get
rid of all Haitians within theDominican Republic, and so on
the border, people were veryblended, right?
You couldn't really tell who isHaitian, who is Dominican, and
so the only way you could tellwas the way that people
(14:25):
pronounce parsley, the way theypronounce parsley, and so they
would say like, okay, sayparsley.
When they say parsley the waythe Haitians would say parsley,
then they would get killed, likethat's why they call it the
parsley massacre.
So my grandpa led the rescuemission.
You know, amongst many otherthings, he was a writer.
He owned a bookstore at onepoint in Haiti, and so there's
(14:49):
already some of those throughlines.
But the conditions that ledthem to come here was the rising
violence in Haiti.
So when Duvalier came, tried tocome into power which he
ultimately did come into powerbut he came in and he threatened
everybody that was with theprevious regime, including my
(15:11):
grandfather, including mygrandmother.
My grandmother is originallyfrom France.
Moved to Haiti was actually.
That's another story.
I'll get to that in a second.
How she came to Haiti, but sheowned a little French restaurant
on a hill in Port-au-Prince andthey came to her restaurant and
they said when Duvalier becomespresident, we're coming for you
(15:31):
.
And my grandmother, her Frenchself, was like whatever, get out
of here, he's like becomepresident.
And three weeks later she hearson the radio Duvalier president
.
And she's like we gotta go tothe America.
On the radio, duvalierpresident.
And she's like we got to go tothe America.
So she was like okay, let's gorefuge.
And my grandpa was actuallylike no, you know, I'm not going
(15:53):
, like I'm staying, they're notgoing to run me out.
And so my grandpa stayed, mygrandpa, my grandma like it
shifted and my grandpa stayedand um, uh and he um, but
eventually, like they, they keptthreatening him and threatening
him with like physical violenceand he eventually came to the
(16:14):
united states too.
So they came like in violencebut, um, because of the, the
political and the the literal,like what was happening on the
ground, the violence that washappening, so they came and my
mom, like, witnessed a lot ofthat too, and so she had
memories, you know, of that.
Those are some of her earliesttraumas um was like community
(16:34):
violence, like in Haiti and, andyou know, coming to this
country.
My grandma also, like, camefrom like traumatic background
because my her dad, my greatgrandfather, actually kidnapped
her from away from her motherand set her on a ship to Haiti
(16:55):
from France so that her motherwould not have her.
So my grandma didn't meet hermom until she was like 40 years
old.
Yes, yeah, so there's a lot oftrauma like in my family's
history which influenced howthey just experienced life, of
course, and their trajectoryfrom country to country, right,
(17:17):
and eventually coming here tothe United States.
But even like starting over,you know, like like they had to
start completely over here, youknow, growing up poor because of
the transition, working theirway up to like survive and my
mom having to like learn, learna new language, like learn a new
(17:41):
culture, you know, navigate,all of that but they made it.
I mean, like my grandpa endedup doing tutoring, like tutoring
people in French, you know,like he just has a love for like
language, for books, forwriting, you know that kind of
deepened or sustained throughall of the immigration, all of
(18:03):
the shifts and changes.
So as far as how thatinfluences my work now, it's
definitely like responding totrauma, like there's a healing
focus, there's an explicithealing focus for community
healing and like embedding thehealing not only one-to-one and
(18:26):
I'm a psychologist, I used to bea not only one-to-one and I'm a
psychologist.
I used to be a therapist doinglike one-to-one therapy, family
therapy, couples therapy, butnow it's really like seeing the
psychological practices on thecommunity level and applying
that to like groups of people orprocesses or programs.
So it's like communitypsychology lens and so with with
(18:47):
that, like you know, what doesit mean to heal in community and
what does it mean tocollectively heal and how does
that look like?
What interventions are neededfor that?
Like what's the?
What's the data, that practices, the knowledge, you know, the
culture shifts that are neededfor that right, because even
though we're in a very differentcountry, you know the culture
shifts that are needed for thatright, because, even though
we're in a very differentcountry, you know.
(19:08):
Then then, hey, we're stilldealing with like community
violence, they're still dealingwith a lot of trauma, collective
trauma, especially now, likewith all of this craziness, and
also like through COVID, right,and so there's there's a lot of
that frame that comes into thework around healing, around how
do we heal collectively, how isit embedded in community?
(19:29):
And then also like contextually,like paying attention to the
context in the community work,just knowing that this level of
like socio-political dynamicsdeeply affects people on the
ground, it deeply affects ourlives and we need to like know
how that, how that does affectour lives and and tend to it.
(19:51):
You know whether whether it'sthrough advocacy or activism or
was through people's own likehealing journey, but knowing
that not just like interpersonaltrauma or or individual like
trauma influences us, but likethe trauma of the collective,
just as like as deep impacts,just like you know.
But like the trauma of thecollective just has like as deep
impacts, just like you know,when the reason why my family
came to this country right, likeit was because of that, like
(20:12):
collective sociopoliticalcontext that then traumatized
them Right, which led to them toto find refuge.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, yeah, no, and thank you for for explaining it
that way.
You know, I asked that questionbecause last year I went on a
fellowship to Mexico with agroup of Mexicans in the arts to
(20:41):
develop relationships betweenMexican leaders in Mexico and
then Mexican leaders here in theUnited States, and there was a
curandero there and one of thequestions that she asked was
Think about your family and whathappened to your family about
(21:03):
100 years ago.
Think about it, write about it.
And you know she was like.
My belief is that that traumaand that resilience that
happened to your grandparentsit's something that is still
carried with you and it'ssomething that is actually
(21:23):
informs how you respond to thismoment in time.
States for the World War IIeffort.
So he was contracted by theDepartment of Commerce, came to
(21:50):
the States, picked cotton andfruit in California and then he
was one of the people that weredeported.
One million Mexicans weredeported in Operation Webpack
deported.
One million Mexicans weredeported in Operation Webpack.
But 100 years ago what happenedwas that the US threatened to
(22:15):
invade Mexico and so when mygrandfather was a child, the
threat of US invasion loomed atlarge within the Mexican society
.
And so one of his responses andthe responses of many Mexicans
were if that happens, we stillneed to provide for our family,
and that was one of the reasonsa lot of Mexicans came to the
United States in the 40s andthen my father followed after my
(22:40):
grandfather and came to Chicagoin the 70s.
But it was from that threat thatwas felt of another US invasion
, because, remember, that wouldhave been the second US invasion
, where the first US invasionresulted in the occupation and
theft of 50% of Mexicanterritory, right.
(23:02):
So that one, that trauma of theuncertainty and the threat of
an invasion.
But then, secondly, you know,to your you know, kind of
similar to what you're saying,is that then my parents became,
and my grandfather, one of themost resourceful and resilient
(23:26):
people I ever got, I ever met, Iever known, so you know, like I
could fix anything in the houseright like you know, you know,
you know Ceci is like you are aMexican and and I could fix
(23:48):
stuff and and also I always I'mvery well attuned when people
feel like they don't belong andtry to create a space of
belonging.
Create a space of belongingbecause my grandfather and my
father, when they came to thiscountry, were always felt like
(24:11):
they did not belong and werealways under threat of
deportation or criminalization.
So that grandparent experiencethat like kind of a hundred year
experience I believe thatactually has something is still
within us and what we're doingand how we're responding has
something to do with what we'redoing right now.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah, I totally agree , and there's research to back
that up too.
But that's an amazing storyfrom, like the experience that
they had in Mexico which droveor drove them here, and then how
it's showing up for you todaydrove them here and then how
it's showing up for you today.
And so there's like epigenetics, right, like the study of
(24:51):
epigenetics just proves thatpoint right.
Like if we have, like sevengenerations ago, go like
experience a famine, then thosepeople who are connected to
those people who experienced thefamine have higher rates of
diabetes.
You know, like there's actuallyphysiological changes in their
ancestors or those those peoplewho are from those ancestors,
right, and so like the same goesfor, like behavior and trauma
(25:14):
and you know, other types ofexperiences.
Yeah, I totally, I totally seethat and feel that and there's
times when I have been connectedto my pain in ways that I know
is not connected to this life.
You know, like some of the painfeels like it's very old, old
(25:37):
pain, right, like I'm feelinglike what my grandmother felt,
you know, I'm feeling like mygreat grandmother.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
you know I'm feeling like when do you feel that?
How does that show up for you?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
it's very hard to put into words, it's very, but I
can actually feel in in placesin my body and when I like, okay
, I can like when I touch thatspot, that's like like 10, and I
don't mean like physicallytouch that spot, but when I
emotionally touch that spot, butthat is within, you know, my,
my physical being, my physicalself, like it's very tender,
(26:13):
it's, it's raw, but it's alsolike it's hard for me to put
into words, but I could tellit's connected across space and
time to put into words, but Icould tell it's connected across
space and time, right, likeit's not only my pain but it's,
it's, it's like located in mybody.
If you've ever done well, I meanyou're, you're a yogi, you know
like when, when you're doingyoga and you do certain
(26:34):
positions, it unlocks emotions,right, like, like for me, it's
in my hips and when I do, likethe pigeon pose, which is very
much like opening the hips, likeoh, I'm boohooing on the ground
, I just cry.
You don't know why, you know,but just tears are coming out of
me, like, ok, I need to release, right, it's, it's stored there
(26:55):
but like our cells, just likean epigenetics, it like stores
the knowledge and material andexperiences from the previous
generations and passes that on.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, yeah, we call that Indian knowledge,
indigenous knowledge.
Yeah, like indigenous knowledge, we just know.
We just know.
Going back to what youmentioned earlier about this
moment in time, going back towhat you mentioned earlier about
(27:50):
this moment in time, I'm verycurious you know right now, with
this moment in time that we'reliving through, right now.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
So, like, when people say, like, talk about like
history repeats itself, you know, I, I think humanity
experiences cycles and and thosecycles are there to teach us
different lessons, right, and Ialso think about destruction and
creation and how, how, likecollective suffering and
(28:20):
suffering period, then, like,can give way to new ways of
thinking, new ways of being,like growth, right, either
suffering is going to destroy usor it's going to force us to
create something different,right, and I feel like you know
that's that happens on anindividual level, but it also
happens on a collective level,and we're in this time of
(28:42):
destruction, like, collectively,obviously, like policies,
institutions are being literallydestroyed right now, on purpose
, strategically or not sostrategically, the swipe of a
pen gone right, and so what thatcalls for us who are
experiencing the sufferingbecause of it, like it's causing
(29:02):
us, or I should say calling us,to think about.
Like, what do we need to create?
Right, like this structure canbreed creation.
And so, like, what is it thatwe need to create collectively?
That is, for us, a lot of thesesystems and policies and
structures, like, while theymight look, like they might be
for us, like the education, youknow, like public safety, police
(29:27):
.
All of that might look likeeven healthcare.
Right, it might look likethey're for our well-being, but
there's elements, like intrinsicelements, in a lot of these
systems that are built into thiscountry, that are destructive.
They are not for our will,they're antithetical to our
wellbeing.
Right and for a system, likethe nature of a system, is to
(29:49):
perpetuate itself, and so thosesystems are going to perpetuate
their original intent,regardless of their change or
not.
Right it's, and so to let themgo right.
We don't want to like to bedestroyed like this, but but
like, like it's calling us into,like what can we create?
That is from its root, it's forus, it's for us, it's by us, we
(30:12):
, it's for our well-being, youknow.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
So I feel like it's a time like calling us into
creation, like as we're sayingthis and I think you, I'm glad
that you have a very clearvision of what it could mean for
us right Versus wallowing in,how terrible things are and how
everything because they areright.
(30:36):
Things are chaotic anduncertain and terrible, but you
have this clear vision, I'massuming, because of just the
deep work that you've been doingwith community members and with
organizations in trying toinfluence the systems that are
(30:57):
not necessarily able to provideor be responsive to the real
needs of people.
I'm curious for you to give mean example or a story about a
project or a healing practicethat emerged and came out of the
(31:19):
work that you've done incommunities that really could
show you the possibility of whatwe could create that's
different from the systems thatwe have right now.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, so one is a collaborative that we're a part
of called Courage to Love, andit's all about I love that name.
Yeah, it's a great name rightCourage to Love.
We might as well just keepsaying that Courage to Love,
Courage to Love.
That'll help us in this time.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
It is.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Yeah, it came from a report in like I forget it was
like 2005, but around infantmortality, and it was talking
about how there's the disparity,like, between black and white
moms and babies.
Right, Baby, black babies dieat a much higher rate, um,
within their first year thanthan white babies, and they're
(32:14):
sort of like, okay, what's thereason for that?
Why?
Why are we seeing that?
Um, and when the researchlooked at everything equal right
, equal education, equalsocioeconomic status, equal pre
prenatal care and resources wheneverything was equal, we still
saw a disparity.
(32:34):
It's like, wait, everything isequal.
Why are we still seeing thisdisparity?
And the finding was that we'restill seeing a disparity because
of the overarching impact ofthe context of oppression, right
, the context of oppression, ofracism, of discrimination and
(32:56):
its effects on the body.
And so if we're in anenvironment that is unkind, if
we're in an environment that'soppressive, if we're in an
environment that has thesemessages and even flat out
policies that keep people in acertain place, right then, or
(33:17):
devalue or dehumanize people,like we, our bodies feel it.
You know it's uh, kind ofrelated to like what we're
talking about before, but like,our, our bodies experience it
and even like, and this is justlike one micro example of this.
Like you have a couple and umone person uh, gives a lot of
(33:41):
like, scowling, like looks atthe other person.
The other person gets sick moreoften, right, like it's it's
the energy right.
It's the, it's the energy.
It's like we are built to besocial, right, we're, we're
social creatures and our bodiesare, are operate that way, to be
social creatures.
And so when we are pushed outof a group, you know whether
(34:05):
it's like you're pushed out of arelationship or you're pushed
out of our group.
Our physiology then reacts tothat Right, and a lot of times
it reacts to that in likenegative ways, Right, when it's
a negative interaction, and evenlike the opposite, the positive
.
So people like breast cancerpatients, when they received a
(34:27):
call from a nurse, just 20minutes, 20 minute call from a
nurse just checking on them, hey, how you doing Once a week,
they had better prognosis thanthose that did it.
Right, the simple act of beingloved, right, of being cared for
just 20 minutes once a week,like shifted how their body
responded, you know to to thatdisease.
(34:48):
So the same goes for infantmortality right, like the mother
is carrying the infant and theinfant is going to to the
infant's development, is goingto react to like how healthy or
not you know the the mom is.
And so we're in an environmentwhere that the person we can
call this country, you know, oror the practices, culture around
(35:10):
us, a person.
They're scowling at us, youknow, they're scowling at us,
they're calling us names, allthat.
Our bodies are going to reactto that, right, and so we're
like you have a whole group ofpeople.
That's like in this environmentwhere the bodies are reacting
to this, you know, in these ways.
And then, of course, like thebaby, then is is compromised,
(35:30):
but the, when they study, likethe courage to love, what they
found was part of the antidotewas love.
That's like God's courage tolove, right, part of the
antidote.
Like I said with the breastcancer patients, right, the
antidote was care, was love, andso love and care helps to
strengthen our bodies.
So the intervention or thecollaborative that we're a part
(35:51):
of with the Courage to Love isall about like, how do we build
loving assets around moms,around babies, around families,
right, so that they can bestrong, you know, holistically,
around babies, around families,right, so that they can be
strong, you know, whole,holistically, holistically
strong, and so part of it, um,we did this in Auburn, gresham,
(36:12):
with the Southside community, um, here in Chicago and as you
know, and um, and in this we uhpart of what we did, we first
asked people like you know why,in this particular community had
relatively high rates of infantmortality.
At the time it was like thethird highest.
Now it's like the fifth highestin mortality rate in Chicago of
(36:32):
all 77 communities.
And so we asked parents,caregivers, you know why is it
like, why we see this, thisdynamic here, you know why do
you think?
What are you, what are thestressors?
And from the basic stressors oflike finances, you know, you
know experiencing of, of likeperception of violence, things
(36:53):
like that, it was isolation fromneighbors that was like
stressful and concerning right,isolation.
We get to that again like beingpushed out, like socially Right
, but they're talking about evenin their community.
They had once felt like a veryclose-knit community that had
been dissolved over time.
A lot of it was sociopolitical,like you know, interferences
dissolving the social fabric ofthe neighborhood, but they had.
(37:18):
That was one of the stressors.
And so what we did as acollaborative this was the
collaborative organizations ofleaders, communities, residents
in this.
So what we did was say like, ok, we're going to to bring
together residents to developout interventions on their
(37:38):
blocks around social cohesion,like how do we build more, more
relationships, more cohesion,like you know, on the blocks,
where people are more connected.
And so, over the course of ayear, we met and we built
beloved community, even witheach other.
We talked about our own trauma,our own experiences, our own
healing, the way we, the way weshow up as leaders, the way we
(37:59):
don't show up as leaders whatdoes love mean to us?
You know how?
How does how does that interact?
What do we appreciate about?
Appreciate about each other?
Right, we really created, likeyou know, beloved community,
like in in the group, and then,through the training that that
we did together, the people whoare a part of it went out and
(38:20):
they created these social code,these like, like you know,
moments or or you knowintervention last you, dominica,
(39:06):
can you?
hear me.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Can you hear me, Dominica?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Hey, dominica.
So, um, so they came togetherand they developed social, the
intervention for social cohesionlike to build more
relationships on their blocks,and so one group um, they were
actually part of a black clubthat had been going for 40 years
, but they decided to be a partof this to do more social
(40:01):
cohesion focus work, and theysaid that they went out and they
did this.
They got their block togetherand they engaged neighbors in
ways that they hadn't before andthey said that they moved as a
unit in ways that they had neverdone before in all 40 years.
There's a woman that had been apart of it for 40 years and she
(40:21):
said we've never moved likethis.
We've never moved together likethis in the same direction, the
same time, you know ascohesively.
And then they were able to getpeople like young, old, from
different walks of life out ontheir out on their block in
relationship, and even one womanwho hadn't been outside of her
house for two years, and evenone woman who hadn't been
(40:42):
outside of her house for twoyears.
They were able to get her outin the mix of things you know in
relationship, interacting.
It was beautiful and the womanwho had been a part of this for
like 40 years.
She said it was nothing shortof magical, like what they did,
how they came together, whatthey were able to do did how
(41:04):
they came together, what theywere able to do.
Another group they came and theyengaged a hundred families you
know together to come togetherin like with the, in like almost
like a family reunion, althoughthey weren't they weren't
technically family members, butthey came together like in
connection and fun, in just likethis commitment towards a
(41:25):
relationship and like upliftingthe family.
So it was beautiful.
But they, like, they designedthese, these interventions,
these moments, these experiencesand this.
It had like this beautifulripple effect.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
And then now we're doing Dominica, but it seems
like you have the antidote youcreated with these neighbors, in
these communities, the antidoteto the fear and the
divisiveness and the inactionthat so many people are
(42:00):
experiencing.
The inaction that so manypeople are experiencing.
I mean, it seems like theanswer is there, right, the
courage to love is there.
My question is like why is thatso hard to maintain, to
(42:24):
maintain, and what can we do?
Or what should we?
How should we think about notonly starting that work but
being able to maintain that work, to be able to make it?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, so one of the reasons why it's hard to
maintain like, the sense of like, one of the reasons why it's
hard to maintain like the senseof, like, love of connection, is
that we are bombarded withnegative messages.
We're invited these messages tobe afraid that things are
scarce, to fear your neighbor,you know, to fear like this
(42:56):
group that might be differentthan you in some way.
Right, and a lot of it is false.
It's just like fear mongeringand propaganda and lies and the
and that's a way for people toget power, right, like when a
group or groups cannot cometogether.
Like we're much more powerfultogether than we are apart,
right, you look at just anything, a forest, whatever.
(43:19):
It's much more powerful, likewhen it's connected to other
things, other beings, and so aone way to maintain or to
disguise power is by keepingpeople separate.
And the way the brain works,which is interesting, is that it
like absorbs negative, right,like it absorbs things that are
(43:41):
like based on fear or negativity, and it could, just as a
protective mechanism, right, soit's extra sensitive to the
negative to protect itself as abody, right, it wants to survive
, and so it takes five to sixpositives to overcome one
negative, right, like, you haveone negative, it takes five to
six positives, and what are weunbombarded with in the media
(44:03):
and the news and movies?
Yeah, just bad shit, and like,there's like no counter positive
, right, and so that's.
It makes it really difficult tokeep on doing this work when,
like, we're getting so manymessages about fear, which is
already triggering things thatare never like our brains are
naturally like trying to lookout for, like, but things to
fear, things that are never likeour brains are naturally like
(44:24):
trying to look out for, like,put things to fear even if
they're not real.
Right, like our body stillthinks like, oh, there's
something new to fear, and so wehave to overcome that, like
through relationship.
Right, like, you know, justbeing super, super committed and
you said this earlier right,like you're you to be in
relationship with people and toput that as a higher priority,
(44:45):
and so that's part of what weneed to do is, sort of like,
putting each other as a highpriority on our list.
We often think thatrelationships are different than
survival.
Right, like, survival is overhere and we need to work really
hard, we need to pay our bills,we need to get the money for
food, all of that and thenrelationships are over here.
But really, like, the body saysno, we need relationships to
(45:07):
survive, so we need to quicklyput those together.
Like you know, in order tosurvive and especially in order
to thrive, we need each other,we need relationships, and so
deepening into that andcommitting to that as a priority
is huge, to that, andcommitting to that as a priority
is huge.
Committing to relationship,committing to love, you know,
like let's, like, yeah, let'shave the courage to love and
(45:28):
commit to it.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
You know, in our everyday practice, yeah, I love
the line I wrote it down.
You know, one way to disguisepower is by separating us.
Right, that is.
That is beautiful, I think,truth-telling of one recognizing
(45:50):
that we have power and whenwe're together in relationship,
we become even more powerful.
But how we disguise it is byputting out negative messages
(46:15):
and otherizing to brain thinkwe're protecting ourselves, but
we're in actuality, makingourselves more vulnerable, right
, and one of the things Right.
Right, that's what's happeningand one of the things that I
think about right now.
You know, as we think and yousaid earlier, history, right,
we're in this moment in timewhere you can look at different
times in the history of thiscountry, where, whether it's
(46:38):
what was done during the CivilWar and the Emancipation
Proclamation and birthrightcitizenship to enslaved African
Americans, and then the backlashagainst Reconstruction, jim
Crow, and then now, you know,after the 1619 and some of the
(47:04):
rights that started to beexercised, now we see this
incredible backlash, whiteidentity politics and extremists
that have a real possibility ofnot only rolling back civil
rights but actually causingphysical and societal harm
(47:29):
against people.
If we protest, right, if wedefend ourselves, if we respond,
respond collectively to healourselves in this collective
trauma.
So for me, you know, thequestion that I've been
grappling with in this area, inthis moment in history, is like
(47:55):
how can we engage people thathave been benefiting from
systems of oppression to be ableto engage in their own healing
during this time?
Right, because if we have timeand time again, if we see people
(48:16):
like the Proud Boys and all ofthese other folks that if you
look, look at them and youprobably could do a pretty good
psychological profile on thatright.
Like there's no love at home,like there's some a lot of
inadequate inadequacy thatthey're experiencing, they
probably don't have positivebonding relationships with
(48:37):
people that they were supposedto.
So so how do we engage thoseindividuals and I'm not saying
necessarily the Proud Boys, butpeople that benefit from this to
be able to understand thatbeing in relationship with those
(49:00):
that including themselves right, because they've been
traumatized but they've justbeen benefiting from a system of
oppression how there is a bondand a benefit for them to be a
part of these loving communities.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Yeah, that's a really important question Like so many
people should be grappling withright now, right, because
there's like so much more thatthat can, should and does like
bring us together than you know,than like separates us.
And so I grew up in apredominantly white rural town
in Michigan, and so my heart iswith people who are, like you
(49:49):
know, displaced, marginalized inany way, whether it's by color,
whether it's by sexuality,whether it's by class, you know,
whether it's by region, youknow, like I'm with people that,
like, have been like outcast ordisplaced or, you know, shut
out from society in some way.
And you know, whether it's myregion, you know, like I'm with
people that, like, have beenlike outcasts or displaced or,
you know, shut out from societyin some way.
And you know, and growing up inin white rural America, um,
(50:10):
there's a lot of like poor whitepeople that are shut out, right
, and and that are are harmed inmany ways by society.
And you know, know,interpersonally, of course.
And with that, I think part ofit is for many of them to see
that they're not actuallybenefiting, like they're
(50:32):
benefiting in some ways, right,they're not as downtrodden as
like Black people are, like youknow, immigrants are right now,
or you know, like they don'thave to deal with.
These are, like you know,immigrants are right now, or you
know, like they don't have todeal with these like added
hurdles in society, but there'sstill, you know, these hidden,
invisible ways that they're keptdown, and I'm thinking of
speaking of, like you know, poorwhite people in particular,
(50:52):
right now.
But there's other, you knowother ways of being, like,
oppressed that are invisibleright now, and I think that that
so many of them need to seethat there there are ways that
they are being being harmed bythe, the overall, like structure
(51:16):
, by society.
You know, in ways that theydon't necessarily like,
acknowledge, but are so real totheir day to day, to their, to
their children, to the schools,to, like you know, how they're
able to, to survive and makemoney and like all of that, like
their whole livelihood isinfluenced by this, and it's
(51:36):
it's blamed on black people oron immigrants, or you know,
whatever it's blamed, likethough these people are your
problem.
No, these people are not yourproblem.
The people that are sayingthese people are your problem
are your problem.
You know, even though theymight look like you, they're
still your problem, you know.
And so in being able to, like,start to take the veil off and
(52:02):
see that how this game is beingplayed by them, like the game
being played, like, oh, thesepeople are different, they're
the problem.
If only they were not here thenyour life would be great.
No, no, your life is actuallygoing to get worse if we're not
here, you know.
And so I think part of it islike seeing these connections
(52:24):
and commonalities and experienceand struggle and pain, and,
like this human experience inthis country, like seeing across
these quote unquote lines,right, which have been been
created, and to to really cometogether with some, like, common
goals that benefit all of ourcommunities, right, and so I
(52:45):
feel like that's one of thethings that we need to do in
order to heal across, for themto heal, you know, and for us to
be able to galvanize thatcollective power, to be able to
move in ways that benefit all ofus.
All of us that have, like, beenkept out of certain rooms, all
of us who have been marginalized, all of us who have been, like
(53:08):
you know, struggling in waysthat we don't need to struggle,
right, there's ways that we needto struggle as humans that are
just part of being human, right,like you know, like the growth
process, they're always going tobe growing brains, there's
always going to be pregnant,childbirth, there's always going
to be breakups.
There's always going to be likethese ways that we struggle
because we're just human, butthen there's all these added
(53:28):
ways that we're struggling, thatwe don't have to struggle, but
there these struggles are put inour way in order for other
people to feel more powerful,right, like, to make more money,
to feel, feel better aboutthemselves.
So they put these arbitrarystruggles in the way, right, and
for them to be able to seethese arbitrary struggles and
why they're there and howthey're harmed by them, just
(53:52):
like you know, so many of us, somany others are also harmed
from it.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
I think you know, as I hear youspeaking, it just becomes so
apparent that the truth tellingthat needs to be told.
At this moment, the majority oftruth is actually going to sink
in and, unfortunately,hopefully it's not when other
(54:30):
benefits are being taken awayand their standard of living
gets drops dramatically, becausemy guess is that they're going
to continue to blame you know,the other versus the people that
right now are in charge ofthose areas.
So my last question for you isyou know, as you know, this is
(54:52):
called Hope Dealer and I want toshare what's giving me hope
right now, and we'd love for youto share what is it and, even
though we are in that dark times, what's giving you hope and
what's giving me hope right now.
You know, ever since um, thenew year, started, um in my
(55:12):
community and across the country, I've been just starting to see
um, now that the veil come off,as you, as you said, people
really looking at instead ofresisting, just resisting.
It's about building right.
So building mutual aid networksagain, building ice watches and
(55:35):
communities of care, buildingand connecting with friends and
family, just on a check-in basis, even if it's just a text
message regularly to see howpeople are doing, being able to
see the role that relationships,community and response how
(55:57):
important those things are, andthat's what's giving me hope,
how important those things areand that's what's given me hope.
And one of the areas that Ijust get inspiration from is
hearing the stories of justpeople and leaders who have been
doing this for a long time andthose that just made you know an
(56:21):
incredible commitment to liftup that work.
So some of those people are inyour book, Becoming Changemakers
and just the way that you know,the leaders that you've
interviewed and those that arein our communities that are
doing this work, and those thatare in our communities that are
(56:44):
doing this work.
For me, that's what's giving mehope that we're focusing on
building and that we're focusingon how we could let go of
previous beats if we had any andreally focus on repairing the
relationships and buildingstronger relationships in our
lives.
So what's giving you hope rightnow, Dominique?
Speaker 2 (57:01):
I love that.
Yeah, yeah, similarly, yeah, alot of that gives me a lot of
hope too.
Yeah, the women in the bookhave been doing amazing work in
their history currently.
How they, what they've survivedand how they continue to have
resilience and how they continueto create more community
(57:22):
resilience, um, through theirstory.
So their stories definitelygive me a lot of hope, um, from
the past and to the future.
Um, personally, my kids give mea lot of hope.
Like you know, regardless ofwhat's happening on the news
around us.
You know they're still likelaughing and playing, and you
know sibling having littlesibling rivalries, and you know
they're still like laughing andplaying and you know sibling
having little sibling rivalries,and you know like it's still
(57:44):
like kid time, you know.
And so that gives me a lot ofjoy, which also, like fuels my
hope.
And then we're working with thisgroup in Auburn, gresham.
It's a group of residentsleaders coming together to
innovate, to innovate a newsystem, and in this case it's
(58:06):
about youth, and they decided tojust build a system of social
development and how to createthese structures and practices
around young people that reallyrebuild the village.
So we have, so young people areconnected in ways that they
need to be connected for everyneed and also for their own
(58:26):
potential and leadership.
And you know, thriving, youknow as a young person to an
adult.
So they're brilliant, like whatthey what the ideas that they
come up with, the drive thatthey have, the commitment that
they have to the community.
So that's a lot of hope.
That gives me hope on a regularbasis too.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
And, finally, what gives me hope is that you're out
there doing this work and,again, I firmly believe that the
work that you're doing withcommunities is the antidote to
what we need right now.
So if we have listeners thatwant to reach out to you, we'll
put the book link on the shownotes of how can they reach out
(59:08):
to you and the Become Center tobe able to partner with you in
their project or learning aboutyour projects, so we could
continue to rebuild the futurethat we deserve and that we
believe will help us.
Speaker 2 (59:26):
Yeah, so our website is becomecenterorg and my email
address is dmcbride atbecomecenterorg.
So, yeah, feel free to shoot mea note and and to, um, yeah,
visit our webpage, sign up forour newsletter.
We also have an instagramlinkedin.
(59:47):
Uh, you can follow us there.
Be sure to buy the book,because it there's a lot of hope
.
There's a lot of hope dealingin that book with the stories
from from these women about bebecoming change makers.
Um, and uh, yeah, look forwardto hearing from anybody who
wants to chat.
Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Well, thank you again , dominica.
I really really appreciate thisfor your time.
Now I'm going to be having acheesy grin in my face all day.
My day just started, butusually by the end of the day
you're like beat down.
So I think today is going to bea little bit different because
(01:00:25):
of our conversation.
Good to see you again andlooking forward to seeing you
again.
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
You me too, me too.
You give me a lot of hope aswell.
Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Thank you, thank you.
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