Collapsing Time: A Non-Dual Approach to Eternal Life | Wisdom Dialogues @ Ajijic Mexico | August 18, 2025 - Hope Johnson's Wisdom Dialogues

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Aloha and welcome to Wisdom Dialogues with Hope
Johnson, coming to you fromAjijic, mexico.
Yay, thank you for joining.
I love you.
So it occurred to me justrecently why this is called

(00:33):
Wisdom Dialogues and you know itwas given the name Wisdom
Dialogues back in 2014,apparently when I was doing a
retreat.
I called it an awakeningretreat.
Apparently, when I was doing aretreat, I called it an
awakening retreat and I had afriend who was a shaman come to
the retreat Shaw woman, I guessyou might say and.

(00:57):
And I said I don't know whatI'm even going to do on this
retreat.
You know, I had no idea.
I said the spirit is justtelling me to sit with the
people for an hour every day.
Spirit is just saying sit withthe people.
So that's what happened.
I sat with the people, sat down, had a little meditation and

(01:20):
just started speaking with them.
And so my friend who was on theretreat with me and she was
doing these different she'sbasically doing ceremonies, you
know, like shaman kindceremonies, and my main job on
the retreat was just to hang outwith people, take them around,
show them Hawaii, you know, takethem swimming, take them down

(01:42):
to the nude beach, take them toecstatic, dance, all that kind
of stuff.
And when I sat down and startedtalking with them, people were
like what in the world?
They're like, what is yourtraining?
What is your lineage?
This stuff is deep, you know,and my friend goes.
My friend named it, she calledit wisdom dialogues.

(02:03):
I was like, oh cool, that'sawesome.
And you know, over the yearspeople would make comments to me
about why are you calling it adialogue?
It seems like more of amonologue.
Barely anyone even asks anyquestions.
You're just shining, you'rejust, you're just speaking the
whole time and shining the lightof awareness the whole time.

(02:26):
Oh, it's frozen.
Okay, anon, you know what?
If it's frozen, you can alwaysgo over to Zoom.
I'm going to give you the link.
Hold on a second Anon's over onSubstack saying that I'm frozen
.
So I'm going to go find a linkfor you.

(02:46):
Okay, here's the link.
Link to Zoom.
Yeah, my mom told me that washappening last time too.
Who knows, it could be myconnection.
But anyways, there's a link forZoom.
It works better.
Okay, there's a link for Zoom.
It works better, okay.

(03:08):
So it occurred to me justrecently.
I was reading something and itwas talking about it was another
Jesus channeling, and it wastalking about how the spirit is
constantly in a dialogue withthe self that thinks it's
separate.
It's constantly in a dialoguelike that, and that's what this

(03:32):
dialogue is, you know.
It's like there's this sense ofself that finds itself to be
separate, thinks it's separate.
Do you know?
You know how you know that thesense of self thinks it's
separate Because it's projectinga body, right?
So it's like you've never,never, think that you've

(03:53):
overcome that until you're notprojecting a body anymore.
Exactly that's Sal sayingthere's a body here and a body
there.
So it's like God created us tobe self-aware but not aware as a
body, not like that.
Okay, so this awareness as abody is indicating that there's

(04:17):
a self that seems separate.
Oh, thank you, Christine.
I'm glad it's working for you.
Anyone who it doesn't work forin Substack, come on over,
christine.
I'm glad it's working for you.
Anyone who it doesn't work forin Substack, come on over to
Zoom.
I think it's more stable.
So, yeah, I was clued into that.
I go oh, that's what it is andthat's what's going on with me.

(04:46):
Is that I'm making it vocal,like that particular constant
communication, that constantdialogue between spirit and the
self that thinks it's separate.
I'm vocalizing it.
So that's why it's calledwisdom dialogues, that's why
that name was given to it andthat's why it is a dialogue and
it's not a monologue, becauseit's not like I'm just speaking

(05:09):
into the void, like that.
You know it's actually.
I'm actually communicating toyou what the inner dialogue is
between spirit and this sense ofself that thinks it's separate,
and then that makes it evenmore of a dialogue because it's
going from spirit to all right,so it's even deeper of a
dialogue.

(05:30):
So that's what it is that I'msharing with you and I'm so
happy to be able to do that.
It's like I listen and thenspeak, whatever it is that I'm
hearing.
That's all.
Oh, thank you, christine.
I curled it today.
She likes my hair.
Yay, what fun.
So, yeah, I had an amazingexperience this week and I wrote

(05:57):
about it on Substack.
You guys could check it out onSubstack.
Substack.
I even did a little bonus audioon there and I want you guys to
receive my bonus audios onSubstack.
So if any of you don't have afree paid subscription and you
want one, you can pay for asubscription on Substack if you

(06:19):
want.
It's $8 a month and then you'llbe able to get my audios.
But if you're listening to thisright now and, for any reason,
you don't want to pay $8 a monththrough Substack and that's
totally okay send me a note.
Anywhere you want to send me anote, I'm on social media and
give me your email address andI'll set you up for a free, paid

(06:41):
subscription.
You can also donate to me andI'll get closer to 100% of the
proceeds.
If you go to my website,hopejohnsonorg, you can even set
up monthly donations there,okay?
So, anyways, I did a bonusaudio about it where I basically
talked about my experience, andyou can have it there Also.

(07:06):
I'm so excited about thisbecause this is something that
came back around for me.
It was something that Iexperienced three years ago and
it has to do with non-dualityteachings that are not A Course
in Miracles.
And what also came clear to metoday while A Course in Miracles

(07:27):
is a non-duality teaching, ittakes it further than that.
It actually takes it furtherthan that, and I've seen this
for a while, but it just wasn't.
You know, as clear about it asI am now and see what's going on
.
So, going back about three yearsago, one of my friends said oh,

(07:47):
you have to go to this satsang.
This is one of my teachers.
Come over to this satsang.
So I go to the satsang and cometo find out, at the satsang,
the person giving the satsangthe teacher is completely
worshiping death, and I see thisas a common thread with

(08:08):
non-duality teaching.
It's like there's this worshipand death.
It's like, oh, this is what'sgoing to happen, this is
inevitable, basically, and atthe time, what he was hurting
about, suffering over which Icould see the suffering right
there, you know he was sufferingover was aging.

(08:29):
Someone asked the question youknow, how do I see this?
Basically, they're asking howdo I see this aging differently,
in this pain that I'm goingthrough with, aging differently?
And what I saw was the teacherstarting to commiserate with
that, right, with that, andsaying basically saying yeah, I

(08:50):
know I'm feeling the same kindof way.
I have to deal with this andthis and this and this, and they
had, he had no solution forundoing this and basically, this
is an ego effect, it's meant tobe undone, okay, and I'm
sitting in there and you know, Iwasn't guided to say anything,

(09:13):
just to listen.
And as I listened, I was justlike wow, and I'm, you know,
looking at all these people soreverent toward him and toward
this teaching, and I see themgetting some relief.
What I'm noticing is this is thesame kind of relief.
We've been deep diving into ACourse in Miracles recently in

(09:34):
the chapter two that talks aboutpsychotherapy.
It's the same kind of reliefthat people get through
conventional psychotherapy.
It's just like, yes, this is apart of life.
You know you have to this.
Death is a part of life, agingis a part of life and you know
you have to be at peace with it,which is great.

(09:55):
It's one step in the rightdirection.
Right, it's because we'reoffering.
What's being offered is a senseof peace and relaxation with it
.
It's just not that deepteaching that helps people to
actually undo it.
So this is keep, still, keepsit projecting, it doesn't
collapse time, which is what youget from.

(10:16):
You know, a teaching like acourse in miracles.
Now, there's not very manyteachings that I see that are
like this, that are actuallysaying, okay, it's great to get
the relief and this is also whatJesus was talking about.
You know the surface levelmiracles are the kinds of
miracles that get you a sense ofrelease and relaxation and of

(10:38):
course, jesus wants that for us.
You know the sense of release.
It's just that he would haveyou take it another step further
and actually collapse time,deny reality to this idea that
death is a part of life, right,like wow.

(11:07):
And you know my mind what?
I noticed the difference betweennow and at that point in time.
My mind was moving towardcondemnation of the teacher.
It's like how is he even inthat role?
That doesn't make any sense,and that kind of stuff like that
.
So what happened was my friendset me up for a one-on-one with
the teacher and I got to go havean experience with him and what

(11:29):
he did was he connected me tothis thing that could tell what
my heart energy was.
And while I was sitting theremy heart energy was really nice.
And then all of a sudden it cameback to me, that sense, that
feeling of that condemnation.
He's like whoa, what's going onright now?

(11:51):
What are you thinking?
And so I shared with him.
I go wow, I was just flashingto the Satsang and how it seemed
like you were worshiping deathwhen you were talking about
aging, and how it seems like Ineed to help you, right.
So he was so sweet about it too.

(12:12):
He was just so humble he goeswell, you know, I'm not saying
that I know everything.
You know, I'm not saying thatI'm just like sharing whatever I
can and and I go, yeah, yeah,and I see that too within myself
, that idea that I need to helpyou.
You know, there's a one,there's an idea.
That's what the anxiety wasabout within me and that's what

(12:35):
was like having my heart energy,kind of like that.
I don't know how it looks on hisscreen, but he was using heart
math and I got some relief rightthere, seeing that there's
nothing for me to do about it,like there's nothing for me to
do, just because I'm seeing thatthis is basically, you know,

(12:57):
that's just discernment.
Seeing this is a false teaching, but it's not a malicious thing
and it's not like the personshouldn't be in that position
and it's not like the people inthe room need to be saved from a
false teaching.
It's a matter of seeing thatthe teacher is saying and doing

(13:17):
exactly everything.
Remember, 100% beneficial, 100%helpful, everyone's being a
hundred percent helpful andeveryone in that room is being
helped in the way that they canhandle being helped, right At
that point in time, likeeverything is going right and
the thing for me that has alwaysseemed to be frustrating for me

(13:39):
and some of the people thatfollow me too, you know they're
like what the heck?
Why isn't what you're sayingmore popular?
And the more popular spiritualteachings are really more of
this softball thing.
That's pretty much like modernpsychology, you know, and you
know that's because that's whatpeople are ready for right now,

(14:00):
and it's not right or wrong.
It's not like that.
We all just get whatever we'reready for.
So I got some release rightthere and throughout this, I've
always gotten more and morerelease.
I mean, before I picked up ACourse in Miracles in 2014, that
was the first time I opened thebook.

(14:20):
I had a huge burden on my heart.
I felt like I needed to write abook like that, right, I had
this sense like I needed to savethe world.
I had a huge burden on my heart.
I felt like I needed to write abook like that, right, I had
this sense like I needed to savethe world, right, and I needed
to write a book like that.
Once I opened the book andstarted reading it, I got this
huge sense of release.
I'm like, oh, here it is, Idon't even need to do anything

(14:41):
about it.
This book is here, anyone canjust find this, and it's got
everything you need to knowabout how to get to where you
want to be basically, which iswhere do you want to be?
The kingdom of heaven, right?
You don't want to be locked inillusions, right?
You don't want to be locked in,basically, this prison of your
own mind.
No one really wants that.

(15:03):
But not everyone knows thatthey don't really want that.
Most people still believe thatthey want.
You know, if you said it likethat prison of your own mind, of
course they're going to say, no, I don't fucking want that, but
they think they want theeffects that they perceive here
at least some of them, becausethere's still hope that this is

(15:24):
going to somehow be satisfactoryat some point in time.
Right, there's still hope thatsome way this is going to
satisfy, right?
Christine?
Oh, yeah, she remembers,because she went to the same
spiritual teacher and she had ahuge awakening.
Yeah, he had a procedure whereit was like he would have us

(15:46):
look through our head like it'sa paper mache, and Christine had
quite the awakening with him.
Yeah, exactly, that's why I'msaying you know, nothing's wrong
in any of these spiritualteachings.
It's just that it's notdesigned these spiritual
teachings non-duality withoutthe collapsing time aspect of it

(16:09):
, without the undoing the ego'sdream aspect about it.
They're not meant to collapsetime.
That's not what they're for.
But you know what?
The people who are devoted anddedicated to those paths,
they're on their way.
The Holy Spirit has them.
I mean, everyone has this call,this pull towards truth, the

(16:36):
desire for truth that'sconstantly leading them there
and it's the devotion that'salways moving everyone in the
direction to the degree thatthey can handle it.
And you know what?
If at this point in time, it'sonly a few people who want to
hear about and want to devotethemselves to collapsing time,
sal is one of them.
I'm super grateful for him, thisguy.
He's had his eye on this ideaof death and aging.

(17:00):
For what?
How many years?
Sal?
30 years.
He's fucking awesome and he'snot letting up on it.
He's not like looking in themirror and seeing evidence of
aging and going.
Well, this is proof that I waswrong.
I'm just going to forget aboutthat idea that eternal life is

(17:21):
the reality.
He stays on it and that's whatJesus is asking us to do,
because it's not even about onelifetime.
And you know what?
All of the progress you make inthis regard, it's getting saved
.
It's saved for you.
You know, even if you don't seepast this illusion in this
lifetime it's possible that it'sin this lifetime but if it's

(17:42):
not in this lifetime, yourprogress is saved sort of like
in a video game.
You know, when you level up toa certain level and you walk
away from the game, you go eatsomething and you come back and
you're still at that level thatyou leveled up to right.
It's like the same, it's kindof the same way.
I like video games for that.
They're a good symbol, right?
This is like a video gameactually, you may seem to be

(18:17):
aging while your mind is beingpurified over time and that's
all that time is for.
It's for seeing through thisillusion.
So we just keep on going inthat respect, going in that
respect.
So I'm not looking to go toSatsangs normally.
I'm not looking to go to one ofthose, because I know what's
going on.
It's non-duality teaching.
It has nothing to do withcollapsing time.

(18:38):
It's basically about givingcomfort to an ego.
That's what's going on.
It's giving comfort to an egoand it's so funny because it
says it's non-duality, butthere's a strong belief that
death is inevitable.
That's what I notice.
It's inevitable, we just haveto be okay with it.
That sounds like duality to me,but you know, anyways,

(19:11):
everything's comical,everything's comical to me.
That's the way I take it.
So I was at the farmer's marketand I made, I made eye contact
with this woman and you know shewas very bright and happy and
and of course I too, and we makeeye contact and she tells me
she's been a spiritual teachersince the 80s and that she
started with teaching a coursein miracles.

(19:31):
That's why my ears perked up Acourse in miracles since the 80s
.
Yes, and I'm giving a satsangand I'm still here while she's
giving.
Oh, I'm definitely going tothat satsang.
It was like not even anyquestion about it.
I'm still here while she'sgiving.
Oh, I'm definitely going tothat satsang.
It was like not even anyquestion about it, I'm going to
be there.
And you know, we danced and hada great connection.

(19:53):
And so the day of the satsang, Iwas here in my casita and I got
a sense.
I didn't really feel like going, I just wanted to hang out in
my casita, maybe do some ACIMlessons and maybe do some

(20:15):
recordings, I don't know, read abook, stuff like that.
And then the Holy Spirit nudgedme.
He's like take a shower and seehow you feel after that.
So I took a shower and thennext thing I knew it was like no
question, I'm out the door, I'mwalking over there.
I actually arrive early.
I sit right in the front row.
You know, I'm like super readyto go.

(20:38):
I'm like stoked.
I'm not thinking I'm going tosay anything in the satsang.
You know not.
You know why.
Because people are askingquestions in the satsang.
They're, they have questions.
I I didn't think I had anyquestion, you know, uh, so I'm
listening to it and you knowit's, it's good, nothing super

(21:01):
deep to me, it's basically goinside, find the stillness, okay
, uh, and and find out.
You know why?
Uh, you know why.
Really nothing.
There's nothing to be upsetabout, any kind of suffering.
You have nothing to be upsetabout.
Go inside, find the stillness.
And then, um, someone asks whatabout this aging body?

(21:26):
I'm afraid, I'm afraid it'sgoing to die.
I'm afraid that this body'sgoing to die right.
So the teacher sweetly takesher hand, looks into her eyes
and basically tells her you'reright, that's what's going to
happen.
That's what's going to happen,which you know.

(22:01):
That's the ego's central dream,that's the central thought of
the dream.
This is what's going to happen,it's inevitable.
You're going to die, or atleast your body is going to die.
And you know, I watched thewoman get some release.
It's like you're right, you're.
You know this is what's goingto happen.
So go inside and recognize thatthere's nothing to be afraid of,
Right?
So that's what I mean aboutgetting comfort but keeping the
ego belief intact.
So still, I'm going.

(22:22):
Okay, that that's.
That's interesting and funny,it's fun and funny.
I'm not thinking I'm going tosay anything.
Right, it doesn't seem like I'mgoing to say anything.
So then, a couple people laterare talking, talking, and the
teacher explains how life anddeath are inextricably,

(22:46):
intrinsically I think it saidthat was the word intrinsically
connected, like you can't haveone without the other.
She was explaining that to thegroup.
You cannot have life withoutdeath.
That's not a possibility.
Uh, I don't know, that soundslike duality to me.
But hey, what do I know?

(23:07):
So then I'm still just chilling, I'm not feeling any nudge from
the Holy Spirit to say anything.
But then the question comes doesthat make sense?
Does that make sense.

(23:33):
And it was like boom, I had tospeak.
It's like there was not even achoice in it, like no, that
makes no sense at all.
Actually, it actually makes nosense.
And I think she asked me why not?
Why doesn't it make any sense?
And I said, well, life is life,it doesn't have an opposite.
Death is just denial of truth.
There's no opposite to life.
Life is eternal, right.

(23:56):
And I noticed there was a senseof defensiveness.
You know, this is right in thesatsang where I'm going.
No, I, you know I couldn't sitthere and just nod about this,
because there's the questiondoes this make sense?
And so I answered that questionno, it doesn't, doesn't make

(24:17):
sense, that doesn't make senseat all.
So you know, I was just payingattention to how much the Holy
Spirit would have me speak,because there was an obvious
defensiveness.
You know, basically, this is acontradiction to exactly what
she was just explaining andconvincing everyone of, that

(24:41):
life and death are completelyrelated and you can't get out of
it.
You can't have life withoutdeath.
Apparently, this is non-dualityteaching, because this is what
I've seen, and it's funnybecause both of them have the
same teacher, ramana Maharshi,and I'm sensing the energy of

(25:02):
Ramana Maharshi with me,thanking me for clearing this up
.
He's like.
He's like thank you forclearing this up at this point
in time, right?
So there's the question well,what about all of this evidence?

(25:26):
You know, in the satsang it wassomething like well, what about
all this evidence?
Don't you perceive that thesebodies are aging and dying?
And it's like yeah, I'm gettingthat perception, but there's
something else can occur.
We have an example of it withthe resurrection.
Whether you believe in Jesus ornot I didn't say this in there,

(25:46):
but I'm sharing it with youWhether you believe in Jesus or
not and what he did, we havethat idea of a resurrection that
makes it possible for us rightthere Now, that idea of
resurrection.
So we're choosing all the timewhich thoughts we would make
true.
So she told me eternal life isjust a thought.

(26:10):
And I go so is death?
And we choose.
At that point I noticed from thecrowd, just kind of like hmm,
just kind of like hmm.
But you know, she proceeded tobasically shut me down Basically

(26:30):
go well, if you achieve that,why don't you just come back and
prove it to us?
And I was like oh, I see, okay.
And then, and then you know,there was a kind of like a
shutting down of the of theconversation when it was just
like you go ahead and keep yourbelief right.
And that's when the Holy Spirittold me that's enough.

(26:51):
So I just said thank you and Ijust stayed, you know, and after
that and you know the majorteaching for me, one just
allowing the Holy Spirit to useme as an instrument, without
becoming defensive, becauseright there, when it's like okay
, you could just keep thatbelief, that's when I felt the

(27:13):
urge of the ego to correct thatand that's where I just stepped
back and said thank you.
So, you know, there is thissense like, uh, like um,
something, something went wrong.
Right after that, that's wherethe major part of the teaching
came in for me, and this iswhere I demonstrate to myself

(27:36):
that there is only eternal life,that there's no death.
This is where the demonstrationcomes in for myself, where the
ego starts talking.
Uh, demonstration comes in formyself where the ego starts
talking.
You know, hold a grievance here.
You know, take this as a slight, you're right, take this as

(27:59):
something that's mean or bad orsomething like that.
Just get up and leave right.
Different thoughts swirling.
So this is where it comes infor me.
But no, I'm staying and I'mfocused as far as listening,
continuing to listen, and as Icontinue to listen, what I'm
witnessing is defensivenessarising because the teacher kept
on talking and kept on makingyou know, saying stuff that you

(28:24):
learned from a book, that isn'treally from your own experience
and different things like that,but just continuing to feel
grateful that this doesn't toucheternity.
And I have nothing to defendWhatever she's saying, to try to
defend the idea that there hasto be death, that we don't have

(28:44):
a choice, that there must bedeath.
Wherever there's life, there'sdeath.
Right, it doesn't actuallytouch eternity.
And to the extent that I'mwilling to listen to what she's
saying without projecting backany kind of defensiveness,
that's where I'm actuallydemonstrating to myself and I'm

(29:08):
strengthening my perception thatonly eternal life is true and
it does not contain death.
So I'm sitting there and I'mgetting a beautiful spiritual
experience, like big heartenergy.
I have a huge smile on my faceand I know at one point we made
another connection without wordsshe was talking about you can't

(29:32):
believe anything you read in abook.
You can't believe anything.
Any spiritual teacher tells you.
You just have to go in and knowit for yourself.
And I was like smiling from earto ear and making eye contact
with her and I was just like,yeah, and I was just like I was
just really feeling it, you know, and I knew, I knew that she

(29:58):
knew that what I was saying wastrue, even though it wasn't on't
showing on the surface Because,see, hold on, let me let that
truck go by.
I don't know if you guys canhear it Because, see, when we're
speaking truth withoutdefensiveness, we're connecting

(30:24):
on a deep level that knows thisstuff.
Like she knew it, I could seeit.
There was this defensivenessbecause you know she's got her
group and I could totallyunderstand that.
You know I'm not trying todisrupt any group, that's not
like that's not my MO at all orto try to correct someone or
something like that.
It was like I just couldn'thelp it.

(30:45):
The Holy Spirit just wanted touse this as an instrument, plant
seeds, whatever's going on.
I don't need to know how ittranspires and what comes of it.
Right, I'm just like along forthe ride and it was kind of like
a psychedelic ride.
It was awesome, but I could seethat she knew I could see it,

(31:06):
and so the next day I wrote hera note just thanking her,
thanking her for her devotion,letting her know how much she
helped me to strengthen myperception and awareness of
eternal life, and letting herknow I see her in perfectly
shining and just, you know, likea note of gratitude.
And she wrote me back and shesaid I'm with you, something

(31:33):
like I'm with you on that.
It is eternal, life is eternal,you know.
So she confirmed to me laterthat she actually does know this
, right, and you know, I knowit's helpful for people to have
someone reflecting back to themhey, life is eternal, because,

(31:56):
especially when you're theteacher and you're not having
anyone say, hey, wait a minute,this is an inquiry, anyone
you're not having anyone say,hey, wait a minute, this is an
inquiry.
Let's inquire a little bitdeeper.
Let's inquire past this dualitycalled life and death.
If it's non-duality, then onlyone must be true.
Which one is it?

(32:16):
Is it life or is it death,right?
So what happens is people getcaught up in their own teachings
and don't see, because they're,you know, everyone who's coming
around is just like oh, yes,yes, yes, nodding, yes, yes, yes
, yes.
And that's what occurs.
And I know one beautiful thing,one beautiful thing in my

(32:39):
experience people challenge meall the time.
My, my friends are alwaysbringing me back.
It's so great, you know,they're always, they're always
go.
Hey, wait a second.
Hey, wait a second.
What are you saying?
And I'm like, I know, I know,got to play in this for a second
, I'll be back Right.

(33:02):
Get caught up in something.
It's like I'll be back Right.
So so you know, it was also areally good teaching for anyone
who has questions like when do Ispeak, how do I know when to
speak and when to shut the fuckup?
Right, it's like you can feelit, you can sense it.

(33:23):
Like for me there was noforethought at all, just that
question, and it was likeinstantaneous.
I was just staying open.
I wasn't like planning formyself whether I was going to
talk or not, but I was stayingopen to the energy and then I
could see, okay, once it gets tothe point where that's enough,
I could sense almost like aclosing down of that energy and

(33:47):
it's like, okay, thank you andgo to gratitude.
So once I left the room and Iwas walking back home, then I
noticed another whirlwind of egothoughts.
Right, but I was ready forthose.
It was great.
I was stoked because, you know,I flashed back to the

(34:07):
experience like three years agoand I asked the Holy Spirit to
stay with me.
I want to use this Under nouncertain terms.
I want to use this experienceright here for demonstrating to
my mind that there's no deathand only eternity is the reality
.
Holy Spirit, stay with me, helpme see all these thoughts

(34:31):
differently.
See, so it's not a matter of,like you know, just trying to
get back to the silent place,which is what the non-duality
teaching is.
It's actually using theexperience to collapse, time to
see through these, to see what'sgoing on, to see the ego trying
to hook and tempt us intoprojecting some kind of

(34:55):
condemnation.
Right, also, superiority,that's another thing, right, and
that was one of the things shementioned in her talk too.
Actually calling thissuperiority, right, and that was
one of the things she mentionedin her, in her talk too.
You know, actually calling thissuperiority because, uh, the
way it was framed is not beinghuman, not allowing yourself to
be human and just believe thatlife and death are true and you

(35:18):
got to go through it.
Right, it's like no, there'sanother possibility.
This body image can actuallyjust dissolve because it
actually doesn't exist.
Right To me, that's not a senseof superiority, that's just
listening.
The sense of superiority comesin where the ego is trying to
get me to condemn the person.

(35:39):
Yes, the teaching is incorrect.
However, it's not wrong in amalicious sense, and it's not
that it shouldn't be.
It should be exactly what it is.
Okay, thomas, let's bring youon.
Are you going on video today aswell?

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Okay, yay, all right, let me promote you to panelists
then well, how fun hope.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
I want to support what you're saying about.
There is no death.
I facilitate a book called anna,the grandmother of jesus and
she lived 600 years, she couldregenerate her cells, she could
bilocate and all this stuff, andshe can bend the laws of man

(36:41):
because they're not real.
She's under the laws of God andshe is teaching us that we can
do the same, and parts of us say, oh no, I can't do that.
Well, that's our free will.
We can say that and believethat, but that's not who we
really are.
We can tap into who we reallyare if we want to, and there is
no debt at that point.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Yes, yes, and and see , here's the thing it's like as
we're learning, we're stillperceiving illusions as if
they're true.
That doesn't mean to stoplearning, that doesn't mean to
stop correcting your mind inthat way, and that's what
happens.
That's the ego temptation.
Oh well, the illusion isdemonstrating to me that eternal

(37:27):
life is not a possibility.
So I'm just going to takecomfort here in this life and
death illusion.
Believe it is true.
This is so conventional.
You know, my, my husband's dadtold him one time.
My husband told me this and itstuck with me.
His dad told him son, it's okay, there's nothing to be uh,

(37:49):
there's nothing to be scared of.
Death is just part of life.
Totally conventional, dude.
Right, it's like that's atotally conventional view of it
and that's what the ego wants.
The ego wants us to takecomfort in the idea that this is
inevitable, but it's okay, youcan be at peace with it.

(38:11):
The ego wants us to stop there.
It's a step in the rightdirection, because we want peace
.
We want to be at peace, we wantto be at ease, and our goal and
also our destiny, you could sayis to take it further than that

(38:32):
and actually collapse time.
So we see past this illusionand return our minds to our true
creations, the kingdom ofheaven.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
You know what the real question?
You're right.
The real question is are wespirit beings or are we bodies?
I mean, if you really startasking yourself, that you start
to get in touch with the factthat you are just here visiting
and you are really a spiritbeing and that's always who
you've been.
And we can bend the rules ofreality if we want to.
We don't have to.

(39:04):
It's not like we're trying tobe spectacular, but we can bend
the rules of reality if we wantto, because we're spirit beings,
we can totally collapse, theserules that we made.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
There you go, because the rules that we made are
based on a belief in separation.
That's all it is.
So, through living thisexperience of duality, life and
death, it's kind of like aclassroom, and we're learning
that we never did separateourselves from God.

(39:35):
God created us to be self-aware.
God did not create us as bodieson a lifespan between birth and
death.
This is illusions that we madeup, so we're given the
opportunity to see through this,to undo the dream entirely, and

(39:58):
this is what it's for.
So I don't know.
I started calling this wisdomdialogues because some people
tell me oh, it's satsang,because satsang means
association with truth, right,so I started going wisdom
dialogues slash satsang, slashsangha.
But if satsang means to peoplethat you're not collapsing time,

(40:19):
then maybe that's not what itis.
I don't know, but it's notreligion either.
See, this is the thing, thomas.
This is another thing that cameto me.
So, conventional religion,christian, catholic, all the
ones that believe in Jesus,right, they believe in the
resurrection, but they believein a way that makes them guilty

(40:40):
and someone who can never attainit.
See, so that's the reason whyJesus came and channeled A
Course in Miracles, so therewould be help, you know, some
help past this thing.
So it seems like what most ofhumanity is doing right now is
either going to the guiltyreligion where Jesus resurrected

(41:02):
Okay, we believe in theresurrection.
Only thing is we're miserablesinners.
Jesus is God and we're nothingright.
So they're missing the mark inthat respect.
Yes, so then then the other.
Basically it seems like half ofhumanity is going for
non-duality and saying all thereis is birth and death, birth

(41:23):
and death.
Birth and death forever andever.
That sounds like it sucks to me.
That sounds shit.
It sounds just as shitty as theother one that that we're a
miserable sinner, because thisis evidence that you're a
miserable sinner if you justhave to go through birth and
death for eternity.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
So Hope.
If the separation neverhappened, then we are in this
mystery of being, that of beingwho we truly are.
If the separation neverhappened, let's go with that
which is what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
It's one or the other .

Speaker 3 (42:04):
You can't go back and forth One or the other, if the
separation never happened.
I am free.
I'm not my body, I'm free.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
I'm not my body.
I am free.
I am still as God created me.
So I don't need a religion thatmakes me guilty and I don't
need a non-duality teaching thatmakes me into.
What is this?
What am I being made into?
Something that's bound for sure, something that's bound to

(42:32):
cycles of birth and deathendlessly for sure, something
that's been to cycles of birthand death endlessly.
This idea that I just have tokeep on doing this, watching all
my friends get old and sick anddie.
How is that happy?
That doesn't sound happy at all, and it's like we have an

(42:52):
all-powerful mind.
We're making this up with anall-powerful mind.
So what that means is we canhave number one, the happy dream
which is leading to the realworld, which is leading back to
the kingdom of heaven.
We can have this if we want it.
And just because, look it, wehave this idea in our mind,

(43:13):
whether you believe it or not,look it, this idea in our mind,
whether you believe it or not,look it, this idea in the mind,
if it sounds happy to you andyou fucking like it, that means
you can have it, because themind is just full of ideas,
right?
And that was one of the thingsthat was brought up.
This is just an idea you'retalking about, and I'm like so
is the idea of birth and deathneeding to go on forever.

(43:34):
Let's choose which one is morejoyful.
How about that, right?

Speaker 3 (43:40):
We get to choose.
We get to choose.
And you know, when youmentioned religion.
The problem there is they'reworshiping Jesus instead of
following him into the eternaltruth.
He became the Christ so that weare the Christ, so we follow
him there.
We don't worship him and keephim separate.
So we're going right into thetruth with his teachings.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
Yeah, and you know, someone mentioned to me a couple
weeks ago.
You know we're in block therapyand you know some of you know
how I am.
You know I just like justsomeone was going, wow, hope,
thank you so much, you know.
For these blocks.
Uh, just someone was going, wow, hope, thank you so much.
You know for the for theseblocks.
I'm doing block therapy withthem.
Thank you for so much forbringing these blocks over here
to ahi.
Heek man, it's amazing.

(44:24):
And and uh, kind of like how didyou, how did you know about
this?
And I go, I do all the bestshit.
They're like oh, okay, okay,well, uh, we don't like a course
in miracles, basically, and I'mlike that's okay, you don't

(44:46):
have to do a course in miracles.
It's not called the course inmiracles.
It's called a course inmiracles.
It is, uh, caitlin says you do,uh, it is a required course.
But this doesn't mean this isthe form.
This is during block therapy.
This doesn't mean it's a formlike you have to take this.
Right, you have to take thisform, you know.
It's just that you have to andyou will.

(45:09):
You don't have a choice in itcollapse time to see through
this.
You'll want to do it becausethere's a call toward that, you
know, and so one of my friendsgoes.
Well, I just have an aversion toreligion because they've felt
from people who have practicedthe Course in Miracles before

(45:32):
using it as like a club to hitpeople over the head and and,
kind of like, be a dick to themand go.
Well, you know, I got thecourse.
I don't know what they'resaying, but anyways, uh, he's
like I'm, he's like it's, it'sjust a religion, and I go.
Well, okay, you can look at itas a religion.
The way I look at it, though,is technology.
Right, I find it to be atechnology.

(45:53):
It's an exact blueprint thatyou can follow to undo the dream
and have a happier, moreawesome time in the dream as
you're going through it.
Right, that's how I see it, notlike religion.
I know people get together, andyou know, for myself, I didn't
do it in groups, you know Ididn't do it in groups, I just

(46:14):
did it one-on-one with Jesus, aCourse in Miracles, like that,
so I didn't get that kind ofenergy where feeling like it's a
religion, but apparently,people are, like, spiritually
traumatized by A Course inMiracles people that's the gist
that I'm getting and evenexperience an example of it for

(46:35):
myself when I was over at thefarmer's market.
Farmer's market again.
All kinds of cool shit happensthere.
So this guy, this friend of mine, has this box of cards that he
made they're kind of like tarotcards and he goes hey, hope,
hope, come here, sit down, Iwant to, I want you to pick a
card.
And he prefaces it with thesearen't really tarot cards.
I know I've been getting, youknow I've been getting flack

(46:56):
from A Course in Miracles,people saying we don't touch
those, we don't touch tarotcards, and I go that doesn't
come from A Course in Miracles,though that's not coming from A
Course in Miracles.
A Course in Miracles isn'tmaking anything wrong.
A Course in Miracles is sayingthat everything in the illusion
is neutral.
It's your thoughts about themthat aren't neutral.

(47:18):
So basically, what they'redemonstrating to this person is
their thoughts about his cards,beautiful cards that he handed
himself.
There's something wrong withthem.
That's the thing.
And the teaching of A Course inMiracles is that whatever it is
that's arising, it's perfect foryou, it's always perfect, it's

(47:38):
totally perfect.
It's showing you what you needto see and when you look at it
like that, there's nocondemnation of anything, you
know, and it's like when you seeit like that, you can see oh,
what is it for?
What are we using it for?
Are we using it to project thatdeath is a reality?
Basically, it comes down tothat love or fear.

(47:59):
What are we using it for?
And that doesn't matter,whatever it is.
I mean, I mean, like in my case,when I'm perceiving a spiritual
teacher, basically do aconventional thing with the ego.
It's like how am I looking atit?
Am I looking at it as a threat?
A Course in Miracles isbasically saying that no threat

(48:20):
is real, nothing real can bethreatened and nothing unreal
exists.
That's the whole basis of ACourse in Miracles.
So if you're not taking a thingas a threat, that's where
you're not projecting death.
Basically, the projection ofdeath is as if something's a
threat, as if something's wrong.
You know, getting the sensethat, oh, that shouldn't be

(48:43):
right.
Everything that's arising isjust reflecting a state of mind.
It's perfect.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
You know I love that you use the term collapsing time
a lot.
That's kind of a new term andthe Course in Miracles says
it'll save you time, so maybe athousand lifetimes.
But you have to be a hundredpercent in, not 50%, not a
little bit, and that's whatyou're really helping me get.
Is there's nobody out there?
Do it Go a hundred percent in,be the truth, and that's what

(49:12):
I'm here for to make thattransition to truth.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Wow, thank you.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, it's so wonderful to join with people in
that.
It's so heartening.
There were so many years whereit seemed like I was doing it
alone and I just kept the faith.
I just kept the faith and Iknew that there would be mighty
companions joining with me.
And now I see so many of them.

(49:40):
I'm so stoked about it.
It's a relatively small numbercompared to the number of people
who are more interested in moresoftball kind of teachings,
right, of teachings, right butthe people who are interested in
this, they're in.
I met another woman here justrecently.
She came and talked to me andher faith just totally helped me

(50:02):
so much.
You know she was talking abouthow helped she is by me coming
into her field, right, and she'stelling me her story and I was
like you're helping me so muchtoo.
Your faith is so inspiring.
It's amazing how those of uswho have stayed focused on this
over time by the way, christineis saying hi to you.

(50:24):
She's over on Substack sayinghi to you.
She's one of them.
You're one of them.
Caitlin's on here right now.
Dorga is doing it, glenn, ofcourse it's on here right now.
Dorga is doing it, glenn, ofcourse.
It's like people who are onhere.
Just today, there's so manypopping up, and when we join
together like that, it remindsme of that verse in the Bible.

(50:46):
It says when two or more aregathered together, in my name,
there am.
I in the midst of them and youknow, jesus is the one who's in
charge of this atonement process.
You know which is basically theatonement process.
I know a lot of people trip outabout that word because it's
like what do we need to atonefor?
We're not guilty.
Yes, that's true, but you dobelieve you're guilty, which is

(51:10):
the reason you're projecting abody that seems to be aware of
other bodies.
So that's what the atonementprocess is for and that's what
we're doing here.
We're taking any moment theego's popping up and say this is
a real threat, this is a realthreat, something's real here,
something's wrong here, right,and we're saying, no, that must

(51:32):
be an illusion.
That's the atonement process.
That's where we're.
We're willingly collapsing time.
We're recognizing that our mindis an all powerful mind, is
actually projecting a threatright now and that it could be
undone.
We could accept the correctionof the Holy Spirit and let it be
undone, and that's how we helpeach other every day, by our

(51:53):
willingness to do that.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Yeah, and you're teaching us not to compromise.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Yay.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
You are holding the line of truth, thank you.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Thank you, thank you too.
Well, I do my best.
I mean, I was talking with afriend earlier and you know I
could be, I could be a little, alittle, I guess you could say
crude in my humor.
Sometimes my friend goes well,you don't really get attached
because she was going.
You were so close with thisgirl who was just here, sarah,

(52:27):
this friend that was just here,sarah, and she left.
She went to Baja California.
She was spending the night herewith me.
We were pretty tight, don't youmiss her?
And I was like no, I reallydon't miss I, you know, I just I
, I just love and I appreciatepeople.
You know, unless it's some cutelittle Indian guy who's giving
me really good sex andapparently I get attached, right

(52:49):
, and I and and and.
The thing about that is I see itand I use it.
So it's still not condemningmyself for going through that
right.
The uncompromising aspect of itis just going.
Okay, I see this and I know I'masking the Holy Spirit, show me

(53:10):
, show me, show me always asking, and it seems like I kind of
like go.
It's almost like I go off tracka little bit.
Show me, show me, show mealways asking, and it seems like
I kind of like go.
It's almost like I go off tracka little bit, you know, because
now I find myself projecting, Ifind myself getting the sense
that he's being manipulativewith me, which must only come
from my mind, right.
I'm getting the sense that he'sbeing narcissistic with me,

(53:31):
which must also only come frommy mind, and for a time I'm not
seeing it very clearly, you know, but my mind is focused on
seeing it clearly too.
So I have like almost like aprocessing time where I'm
listening to the Holy Spirit butI'm not hearing so clearly,
because there's this seemingdesire for something in the

(53:53):
field that could satisfy me, butit's not, because it's not the
way I want it to be Right.
So this is what this is what'smeant by being uncompromising
You're never giving up, you'reallowing yourself to see more
and more.
And as I, as I use it and it wasso amazing to Thomas, I was, I

(54:14):
was taking a nap and I wasfeeling heartbroken.
This was maybe like last week.
I was feeling a sense ofheartbroken, right, and I go.
I'm just asking for help.
Whenever I get the sense ofbeing heartbroken, I'm asking
for help to see that differently.
And so I lay down, I'm upstairsand laying on a couch, put the

(54:37):
headphones in with A Course inMiracles, right, and I go to
sleep for a couple hours.
I wake up right at the partwhere it's telling you what to
do with a thought of making aperson special, right?
So the heartbreak, the feelingof heartbreak, all it is is

(54:57):
projecting a thought that thisperson, this body, is important
to you and what would you dowith it?
You just ask the Holy Spirit tohelp you look at it differently
, right?
Instead of projecting and it'slike it was just a reminder
again and again, because I gotto tell you the projecting there

(55:17):
was like a strong pull to fuckthat guy, fuck you, you know, go
away, you know.
So it's like it's like over andover again.
It seemed like it had to repeatand go around over and over
again, but what I saw more andmore clearly is that it was a

(55:38):
hidden corner of my mind.
And this is again the samethought of death, this thought
that makes a person special.
Okay, so it's not bad to havethe sense of heartbreak like
this.
You can look at it like this isthe way in this.
You can look at it like this isthe way in, this is the way to

(56:00):
see.
So come to find out.
It's my belief that love has tocome with pain.
It's like I'm not lovableenough, so love has to come with
some kind of pain, and it'slike I can only get this feeling
.
This is another thing.
I can only get this kind offeeling for someone who's going
to act like this toward me.
I can only get it like that.

(56:21):
That's the only way I'm going toget that feeling Like.
If the guy's just like, oh, I'minto you too, and it stays like
that, I don't have that feeling.
I can only get that kind offeeling like, oh, I'm so in love
with you.
I can only get that kind offeeling like, oh, I'm so in love
with you If the person is goingto be willing to play with me.
Like that, let's say we do ittogether, we play this together,

(56:43):
right?
So if that person is going tobe willing to play that role and
there's another part in ACourse in Miracles where it's
talking about you only manifestthese relationships to
specifically not give you whatyou want- so you can see, you

(57:04):
know, so, you can see.
So it showed me and then andthen more recently, and it
started like a couple nights ago, where I got almost like an
inroad that I didn't have beforeto this heart energy.
So it's like the sense ofbroken heart and I've heard this

(57:24):
said before with a broken heartleaves a crack for the spirit
to get in, right, so then thebroken heart can be completely
used in that way and there couldbe a broken heart about
anything.
I mean, I hear so often aboutpeople feeling broken hearted.
Maybe a parent passed away,maybe a child passed away, maybe

(57:48):
you saw that your dreams inlife aren't going to manifest,
and that's feeling like a brokenheart.
Right, maybe you were takenadvantage of, and it's all in a
dream, of course but it's asense, just this sense of a

(58:09):
broken heart, or even the sensethat your body is withering away
now and you're losing yourstrength, something like that.
It leaves like this crack forthe light to get in.
I like that analogy because itreally does, and if you'll use
that, basically looking at itwith the Holy Spirit in a
certain way, you are using it tocollapse time, and that's what
I see, because what was takenaway from me, which is a

(58:30):
beautiful thing, was the hopethat this world could satisfy me
at all.
And, noticing as it's beingtaken away from me, there's this
grieving, there's a sense ofgrieving.
It's like, no, I want to getthe satisfaction that I made
this world for.
So everything gives great gifts.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Yes, you know, what I'm noticing right now is that
your teachings is like anintention.
It puts it out there and itwill come to you that way.
But if we teach ourselfnegatively, guess what's going
to keep showing up.
And I love that you said that.
Your friend said you miss herand you recognize that that's in
time.
So we need to correct ourlanguage basically and you do

(59:17):
correct my language sometimesand I appreciate that, because
why would I want to keepcreating a false reality, what
that's got, limitations.
So what you just describedabout how you want a man to show
up is going to happen, becausethat's what you're doing.
You're creating it right, rightwith your intention and and and

(59:38):
.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
The thing is it's always, whatever we perceive in
the field, it's alwaysmanifesting our state of mind,
right?
So so it's like if I make aperson special, I'm gonna
perceive all these traits.
That's what's going to pop upand what is specialness, what is

(01:00:00):
making anyone special?
Anyways?
But a denial of God's love,right, it's like a substitute.
You're making a substitutebecause you're unaware of God's
love.
All of us are unaware of God'slove to an extent.
That's why we're projecting abody, and this was hidden really
well within me.

(01:00:21):
I see that how the circumstanceswere given to me just perfectly
, because I didn't seem like Ineeded anything like that.
I seemed to be beyond it.
I had a sweet really I stillhave a sweet relationship with
my husband.
It's just, you know, we're notlike that with each other.
Um, we're not in a like a, asexual kind of relationship

(01:00:45):
where we're running a housetogether anymore or anything
like that.
Um, we're just like we're justmighty companions now, which is
way more happy.
It's more like a happy dream.
It's like happy to be with that.
Not that it can't be like thatand be a happy dream, but in my

(01:01:06):
case, I felt like I wascompletely beyond all of that
stuff because it didn't seemlike I needed.
I didn't even seem like Ineeded sex.
I didn't even seem like Ineeded sex.
I didn't even seem like Ineeded anything else.
I wasn't never looking for adifferent partner or anything
like that, even though myhusband wasn't on the same page

(01:01:27):
with me spiritually.
What the Holy Spirit showed meis that the relationship was
useful for helping me collapsetime, which is the reason why
I'm manifesting a life in thefirst place, right.
So I didn't feel like I neededanything, but I was given this
great gift through thesecircumstances, the way that they

(01:01:48):
arose, where this justblindsided me.
I was hanging out with this dudefor years and never thought
anything like that could arise.
For one thing, he didn't lookattractive to me physically,
right Even.
You know, I guess it's acultural thing.
It's probably a cultural thing,you know, like what we find
attractive.

(01:02:09):
Even my son would be like man,that is, that's a sweet dude,
but that is one funny lookingfucking dude and I'm like no,
isn't he?
You know, there is not even achance in my mind that this was
going to occur, right.
But when it occurred it was likeoh my goodness, it was like.

(01:02:29):
I have found it was like thatsong from Aretha Franklin is
playing in my mind.
I have found it was like thatsong from Aretha Franklin is
playing in my mind At last, mylove has come along, my lonely
days are over.
You know like that and I didn'tsee it coming at all that it
was just going to be like boom.
But it was exactly what Ineeded.

(01:02:53):
It was exactly what needed toshow me where I was
compartmentalizing fear and tobring it to the surface.
And it's like at this point Ijust feel more and more relieved
of that whole situation too,like it doesn't need to manifest
again, like there's no need to.
Of course, I'm not opposed toit if it does, because if I need

(01:03:15):
more teaching, I'm here for it.
That's what I'm here for, okay,it's just that it doesn't seem
like it needs to manifest againbecause I could see so clearly
how I made it special, where Icould have just held it really
lightly, while I couldn't havebecause I needed to see.
But you know, it's possible tohold it very lightly, but only

(01:03:41):
when the mind is purified to acertain degree.
So we can't really makeourselves be more advanced than
we are.
See that.
So that's why these lessons theyhave to come and just to be
open to it.
Okay, you know what?
I'm not going to try to protectmyself.
I'm not going to try to protectmyself.
I'm not going to try to protectmyself what I can see right now
.
One way that's protective in agood way, though, is recognizing

(01:04:05):
a thought that I can any kindof hope that I can get something
like that from anyone else inthe field, kind of like looking
around sizing people up as theycome into my experience.
Could this be it?
Could this be it that isprotective in a very clean,
clear, spiritual sense, becauseyou're going, that thought leads

(01:04:28):
to an illusion, that thoughtonly leads to death, right, but
it's still open to whateverexperience is coming.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Well, I like that you're saying if we try to
protect ourself, basically we'redoing it on our own, versus go
ahead and experience it and thenbring it to God and say what
was that about?
I mean, what's in that for me?
How is that for me?
Instead of trying to protectand trying to manipulate things
to be a certain way, just let itbe what it is and go to God
constantly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
Exactly and even let yourself be as you are, even if
you seem to be attached.
Let yourself be as you are,constantly asking the Holy
Spirit to help you see itdifferently.
So it's like shit, I gotattached, I made someone special
, fucking awesome.
I know anything like that'sgoing to happen.

(01:05:17):
It's going to be fuckingawesome, it's going to be so
enlightening and it makes mefeel so grateful.
You know, and that's what Icommunicated to my friend, you
know, because you know he wouldmove toward feeling bad about it
and I was like hey, you'rehelping me see things that might
have taken lifetimes to see.
You're doing awesome.
There's nothing you know, evenwhen I'm telling him you know

(01:05:40):
what I don't want.
No, I don't want to havetelephone conversations with you
, I'm not interested in thisenergy.
You know I'm sensing amanipulative energy and I'm not
interested in that.
You know it's like, but no,you're not doing it wrong, it
doesn't mean that.
So it's not sugarcoating thatthe deal.
You know what I mean.
You know what I mean.
It's not like, it's not likeglossing over and sugarcoating.

(01:06:02):
It is like at some point Icould, I could perceive the
manipulation in a way where itwas like you know what?
That's just not for me anymore.
It's not necessary for meanymore.
It's not necessary for meanymore.
That's enough of that, you know.
There's no, there's nothingthat says that you have to
sacrifice and go through, gothrough any kind of pain, be in
communication, be inconversation with someone while

(01:06:26):
there's this manipulative energyalive.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
There's no need to do that and there's no need to
make it wrong that, and andthere's no need to make it wrong
isn't that fun, you know, itjust dawned on me that your
teaching and our listening israising the bar, isn't that?
What we're really here to do ischallenge ourself into the
truth and hold on to the limitedbeliefs.

(01:06:49):
That's right, thank you yay,thank you too.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
I love you, thomas.
Thanks for joining.

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
I'm going to see you in Sedona soon.
Pretty soon yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
It's so fun.
I'm so happy about it, me too.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Me too.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
All right, let me see I'm putting you back in your
place.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
I forgot how to do it .
Let me see what do I do to you.
I don't remove you.
Oh, change role to attendee.
Okay, okay, let's see what wehave.
Oh, glenn, I love you.
Glenn's always joking aroundwith me.
He says hope giving up on hope.
Hooray, yes, I know, I thoughtof that too.
I thought it was so fun.
Maybe that's why my name isHope.

(01:07:33):
I know I've had a bunch ofdifferent reasons for my name
being Hope.
Hope giving up on hope.
That's what I'm here to do.
I'm here to give up on hopethat this world can be
satisfactory at all.
Okay, durga said.
Leonard Cohen said in his songanthem there is a crack in
everything.
In his song anthem, there is acrack in everything.

(01:07:55):
That's how the light gets in.
Oh, I love it.
That's wonderful.
Yeah, leonard Cohen, that wassomeone I read from him before
and I got really inspired by hisyou know his eternal life thing
and I don't remember what itwas about his teaching.
That wasn't complete for me.

(01:08:15):
I'm guessing that it had to dowith eternal life for a dense
body or something like that.
I'm not sure, but it didn'thave to do with actually
collapsing time, which is whatwe're doing.
And yes, thomas, it talks aboutcollapsing time a lot in A
Course in Miracles and in factin one of our recent deep dives,

(01:08:39):
jesus was really getting intothat.
He was talking about thedifference between surface level
miracles, which he wasn'tcondemning at all.
He was just saying that thoseare not collapsing times.
They're collapsing time.
Those are not the kind ofmiracles that do that.
And you know, when yourecognize the kind of miracles

(01:09:01):
that collapse time, you takeresponsibility in a way that
you're not going to pursue thatthought anymore.
So you know, one idea of that istaking it in a way with like
with my friend, like, let's say,the idea that he's immature,
right, and and just not makingit about him, just not making it

(01:09:24):
like that.
And you know, when you see ittruly, it's like, ok, we're
playing this game together tohelp us both see something.
That's what it is.
It's not like, for one, I don'tneed him to be different to be
happy.
See, that's the thing.
It's like we can get somesurface level relief, we can get

(01:09:46):
some surface level relief.
Or it's like, hey, I'm makingthis up, I'm actually projecting
this right now.
This is not a true reality,right?
And you know, it's like I'mprojecting it alone in the sense
that it's a lonely dream, right, and he's projecting his side

(01:10:08):
of it alone as if it's a lonelydream.
What we share is reality.
We share the part of the mindthat's still in truth.
So that's how we join togetherand we're willing to see that
each of us is on our own lonelytrajectory in thought and

(01:10:31):
neither of us wants the otherone to suffer.
You know, when I told my friendit's like no, I'm not
interested in talking to you.
It's not like you're wrong, Idon't want you to feel separate.
I could just see that thisenergy isn't something that I
want to play right now.
You know, I'm noticing thesekinds of manipulative tendencies

(01:10:53):
that are arising and I don'twant to play that energy right
now.
It's not to make anyone wrong,right?
So when you do that, you'restill being mighty companions to
each other, right?
You're still being sweet, andhe's sweet to me too.
He immediately even saw oh,okay, this is how.
Okay, this is manipulation.

(01:11:13):
Oh, thank you for pointing thatout.
Okay, so it's like we just resthere in awe.
Okay, let's rest.
In truth Does not mean that weneed to be having conversations
over the phone, for instance.
It doesn't mean that we need tobe meeting up.
That's not what it means.
That's the ego's interpretation.

(01:11:34):
The ego would say well, you'resupposed to be meeting up.
That's not what it means.
That's the ego's interpretation.
The ego would say well, you'resupposed to be so spiritual that
you should keep on doing thisthing with this person.
It's not necessary For one.
You can only interact with avery small number of people.
You can only interact You'recommunicating with all of them
at the same time.
That's going on.

(01:11:56):
We can only interact withrelatively few people in the
field.
And what I noticed when it camethe time for me to say you know
what?
No, I'm not having any more ofthis.
That's the end of that.
Right, it freed up my energy tobe available to so many more

(01:12:18):
people.
I saw the effects of it rightaway.
It just freed my energy up tobe so much more available.
Right, it's like the ego wouldhave you get wrapped up in a
situation with maybe one or twoor three people where it feels
like you have to help them.
That was one of the things youknow, because he seemed to be

(01:12:39):
going through some spiritualtransition and I seem to be
ahead of him and it seemed likehe needed me to help him, right,
and that was going on for awhile, where that thought was
manifesting.
And then I saw that thought.
I was like, no, he's fine, theHoly Spirit's got him.
There's no necessity for me tokeep on doing this thing.

(01:13:01):
And that's how it is with allpeople.
And it just helps me see moreand more clearly, even with the
situation, with being in thatsatsang.
It helped me see these people inthis room don't need me to save
them from the spiritual teacher.
That's the kind of idea thatthe ego projects, like all these
people in this room.
They need a higher, moreadvanced spiritual teaching

(01:13:26):
right now.
No, they don't.
That doesn't mean that the HolySpirit can't speak through me.
It still occurs, but it justtakes all burden Whenever you
feel burden on yourself becauseyou feel like you know more than
the other people, or you feellike you know more than another
person.
So therefore you should do thespiritual thing and be there for

(01:13:48):
them.
That's the ego.
The ego totally turnseverything around.
The ego totally turnseverything around.
You know, the way to teach isto demonstrate.
That doesn't mean that we doany kind of sacrificing.
That doesn't mean that we haveto put ourselves up on a
pedestal to be anyone's teacher,you know, and that's what I

(01:14:10):
noticed was coming up that myfriend would do is kind of put
me on a pedestal.
It was subtle, you know, hedidn't say it like that, it was
like, hey, you know, you know hewould present like I need you
because you have gone more aheadon the path than me and I need

(01:14:34):
this.
And it's like no, you don't,you're fine, holy Spirit's got
you and you know, then you can,then you're in more of a
listening mode and we see whatwe need to see when we see it.
We learn what we need to learnwhen we learn it.
So we just stay within the HolySpirit's guidance.

(01:14:58):
Right, and it's like now, man,when I see, when I perceive
narcissism.
I just haven't had thisexperience, you know, but at
least I haven't.
Since I was younger than 21years old, apparently, before I
met my husband that I was withfor 30 years, didn't see any
kind of narcissistic tendenciescoming up in a lover in decades,

(01:15:23):
many decades.
So it's like, once I get thisexperience, it's like once I
perceive narcissism coming up insomeone who's close in
relationship with me, that's howI know, right away.
I'm projecting specialness.
That's how I know.
It's kind of like oh, you likeme so much, I must be so special

(01:15:46):
.
It's like, oh, okay, I'm doingthat.
You like me so much.
It was kind of like this oh,you like me so much, here it was
.
It was kind of like this oh,you like me so much, oh, I can
get, oh, I can get you.
Okay, then I can get betterthan you too, right, it's like

(01:16:07):
when I perceive something likethat, I know I'm making that up,
I've just made someone special,right, that's what that means.
And so then I'm not confusedabout it.
But I went through theexperience, sensing that
confusion and asking the HolySpirit what is this?
You know, I'm getting a senseof this.
So you can't.

(01:16:28):
You know, at first I wouldn't.
It's not that I couldn't, but Iwouldn't put my finger on it,
because if I did, I'd have togive up the sex and I felt like
I wanted that.
There was a sense likesomething could satisfy me in
the field.
It seemed like that wassomething that could satisfy me.

(01:16:50):
So I wouldn't look at it, andthat's also.
That's also how the uh, the egoworks.
Uh, you could, you could alsoliken it to.
Let's say, uh, uh, you'reselling out as far as for money,
right, it's like you won't putyour finger on what's actually
going on, you won't look at itwith the Holy spirit is what I

(01:17:11):
mean by this?
Because you don't want to giveup the money, you don't want to
give up the money, you don'twant to give up the sex, you
don't want to give up the money,you don't want to give up the
status, anything like that.
This isn't a guilty thing, thisis just something to look at
and recognize, you know.
So I was recognizing it dimlyat first, and you know what
happened, what was great.

(01:17:31):
It just so transpired.
And you know the Holy Spirit isin charge of all events, all
circumstances, all the HolySpirit's totally in charge of it
.
It just so happens that we'reon different continents, so I'm
not getting the sex.
So then, that's not the, that'snot a thing, I don't have that,
basically that drug.

(01:17:52):
Now.
Now I could see things moreclearly.
Oh, okay, here's what's goingon, and it's like this is not
something I was in charge of atall.
I felt like I did not want thatto happen, right, I felt like it
was, there, was.
It was kind of like a two-sidedthing.
I kind of felt like I wanted itto happen, because there was a

(01:18:13):
sense that I needed that tohappen.
But then there was also a senseof, oh no, come here.
And for me if you're familiarwith me, I normally do not miss
at all, like kids nothing, mykids will go away.
I've got three kids apparentlyHaven't seen them no sense of

(01:18:36):
missing at all.
Right, and you know I don'tfeel guilty in saying this at
all.
I know why this sense of missingcomes up.
It's just to reveal somethingthat's hidden, that I've
compartmentalized, some fearthat I've compartmentalized and
didn't deal with.
That's all.
And as I'm willing and you know, it kind of comes around again

(01:18:59):
and again.
I don't know if it's comingaround again because you know
I've gone into this space, inthe heart space.
That has just been.
Oh my goodness.
Last night I went into thisheart space where I just get
this sense like I don't needanything.
I don't need anything.

(01:19:21):
It's just this willingness tobe in communion with the Spirit
in this way is the mostsatisfying thing there could
possibly be.
So I don't know if that senseof missing is coming around
again.
I just welcome it when it comesbecause the feeling itself is

(01:19:41):
indicating what I can hand overto spirit and leading me to even
more joy, even moreappreciation.
And this thing came up inperfect time after I had like a
really long time of a differentway of relating, of something
like this not coming up.

(01:20:02):
But you could say that I'veexperienced heartbreak in a lot
of different ways, you know, andperceiving it's been in smaller
ways, not so intense like this,in perceiving myself in my
business running MiracleBotanicals I love Miracle
Botanicals, by the way, it's thebest essential oils in the

(01:20:25):
world.
I still use Miracle Botanicalsall the time and recommend it to
people, to people.
But there was a sense that Iwas trapped because this was not
what was in my.
I guess it wasn't what I wasbeing called to do.
It wasn't what the Holy Spiritwas calling to do, which was be

(01:20:46):
around people, and what I wasdoing was being behind a
computer and that was my job.
And so I felt resentful that Iwas doing that as a job, but I
wouldn't use it to collapse time.
For many years I just kept onfinding myself in it, feeling
remorseful, resentful, hopefulalso that it would get to the

(01:21:07):
point where I would finally beset free from being behind a
computer doing this, basicallywriting blog posts for Miracle
Botanicals and doing all thistechnical stuff, building the
website, running the finances,all that kind of stuff and I did
it with awareness of what I wasdoing and then going into real

(01:21:29):
estate to do it even more, toramp it up even more where I'm
behind a computer, a lot right.
So, seeing that it was also adegree of a sense of being
brokenhearted, like why do Ihave a sense of, why am I
married to a husband thatdoesn't want to take over
finances and let me be free tointeract with people or at least

(01:21:55):
have a job where I'm withpeople, which would be a job
where I'm doing something thatdoesn't make as much money,
maybe, you know like, maybe areceptionist somewhere, I don't
know.
Now it seems like I don't haveany kind of job and I just get
to be around people.
And when I am behind thecomputer it's for spiritual

(01:22:16):
teaching, which lets me connectwith a lot of people,
communicating with people onideas, on spiritual ideas and
stuff like that, and that justfeels like my calling, that just
feels so in alignment.
But it took me an amount of timegoing through a sense of
heartache and heartbreak.

(01:22:36):
Right, it's like I have thissense, like I'm trapped, and it
was willingness to go through itwith the Holy Spirit looking,
and not putting any kind of timelimit on it, letting the Holy
Spirit just make, just have thecircumstances coalesce in

(01:22:57):
whatever way they need to teachmy mind.
And then at one point it waslike, oh, I'm doing this to
myself.
And then, and then, withinprobably a couple days of
recognizing that, it was likeI'm not doing this anymore.
Once it was recognized, oh, I'mdoing this to myself, I'm

(01:23:19):
totally trapping myself.
It's like I knew it on anintellectual level, but it
wasn't until I really saw it ina visceral sense.
That's where the time collapsetook place.
That's where my behaviorchanged and that's one thing
that Jesus was talking about inan earlier deep dive that we
were doing Once you collapsetime, once you use it to

(01:23:41):
collapse time, your behavioractually changes.
So that's what I was waitingfor before leaving that
situation, because I did notwant to leave the situation
prematurely and go my husband,there's something wrong with him
, it's his problem, it's hisfault, right.

(01:24:03):
And then go manifest the samething over again.
I wanted to use it and that'swhat I did.
So now I don't need to manifestthe same thing over again.
See, and same thing with myfriend.
I don't need to manifest anarcissistic boyfriend.
Manifest a narcissisticboyfriend, it's not necessary.

(01:24:28):
I could just see that.
I don't need to manifest that.
It's like I may find myself inrelating with someone who
reflects narcissism to me.
That was the first thing thatwas reflected to me.
It reflects narcissism to me,but that'll be the end of it,
right there.
It doesn't need to continue,right?

(01:24:49):
It only needed to continuebecause I needed to see how I
was making it.
Once I see how I'm making it,it doesn't need to continue.
It was fun because as I wasgoing through it, it was like,
oh fun because as I was goingthrough it, it was like, oh,
knife in the heart.
You know it was like every timeI'd see that I'd be oh.

(01:25:11):
What do I need to learn here?
When you look at it like that,it's totally different.
You know, I've talked for manyyears about people talking about
being abused, being in abusivesituations, or they're like how
do I get out of this abusivesituation?
My boyfriend or my girlfriendis kicking my ass Like they're

(01:25:32):
actually punching me in the facesometimes.
That's the story I'm gettingright and I'm like recognize,
it's coming from your own mind.
Of course, if someone'spunching you in the face, you
don't really have that.
You might not have that nudgefrom the Holy Spirit.
Oh, you know what?
This is the perfect containerfor you to keep on getting
punched in the face while wework this out.
For me, the punch in the facewas more energetic.

(01:25:54):
My husband was really sweet tome.
There was never any kind ofphysical abuse or anything like
that.
It was more like hey, honey,would you fix the light above
the, above the stove?
And he'd be like OK, I'll getto it whenever.
And that was that was.
That was how the teaching was sogentle, it was like that.

(01:26:16):
So you know, I didn't tellpeople stay with that partner,
but I would tell them you don'thave a choice in it, because
lots of people would stay withthe abusive partner, the one
that's punching him in the face,right?
Hey, you know I'm notcounseling you to stay with them
, but I'm also telling you youdon't have a choice in it, so
there's no guilt in staying withthem Either way.
That it seems to manifest.

(01:26:37):
Use it like this.
Look that it seems to manifest.
Use it like this.
Look at it like this.
And you know, I use the sameteaching that I'm giving on
myself, right, look at it likethis.
This is coming from my own mind.
I must be abusing myself in myown mind.
That's what's going on, right?
So in my case, I was looking atI must be trapping myself

(01:27:00):
because I'm feeling trapped.
I'm feeling like I can't getout of this work.
That doesn't feel like mycalling.
So I feel like I'm trapped.
I must be trapping myself.
Let me see and you know I'mpatient, as can fucking be, you
know, and that's the thing, themore patient we are, the faster

(01:27:20):
it goes right.
So you might go wow, hopeyou're patient.
You were so patient, you stayedin that sense of being trapped
for 10 years.
10 years is nothing in thescheme of things.
We've worked to make thismoment.
We've been working hard,working really hard and making

(01:27:43):
ourselves feel trapped to makethis manifestation.
It's gone on for lifetimes,millions of lifetimes, let's say
repeating, actually repeatingthe same lifetime many times
with very minor changes.
If you looked at that andyou're aware people who have had

(01:28:05):
near-death experiences can seethis they're like holy shit,
I've been here so many timesdoing the same exact thing so
many times.
It's like, is this time goingto be different?
Yes, I know it.
I could feel it in myexperience with this lifetime.
This lifetime it's differentbecause I'm allowing myself to

(01:28:26):
see my patterns and it's finallyworked up to.
You know this willingness, likeI talk about leveling up, you
know leveling up through thelifetimes that we seem to go
through, up through thelifetimes that we seem to go
through.
In my case, it's obvious to methat I've already leveled up a
lot in other lifetimes.
I've already leveled up a lot.

(01:28:47):
That's why it's easy for me,it's pretty natural to me, to
just take this on really fast.
You know, I have plenty ofpeople who are listening to me,
who have been studying A Coursein Miracles way, way longer than
me, and they're going.
You're my teacher right.
That's because of the levelingup that your progress is saved.

(01:29:10):
It doesn't matter like how muchtime you've paid attention to it
in this lifetime.
That's why nothing, none of themiracles that you make, none of
the forgiveness that you do,goes to waste.
Whether or not you get theperception of your body aging
and getting sick and dying,whether or not you get that
perception.
That doesn't really matter.

(01:29:30):
The perception isn't the thing,it's the way you would look at
it.
Your thoughts are what are notneutral, and you know that's
good that they're not neutral.
You don't want neutral thoughts.
You want healing thoughts,forgiving thoughts right, Rather
than ego thoughts.
Basically, if you're listeningto one of two voices, none of

(01:29:53):
them are neutral.
None of the thoughts areneutral.
You don't want them to be likethat, right?
So you go for the healingthoughts, the thoughts of the
Holy Spirit.
You're willing to see things ina way that looks on it with
forgiveness, with a gentle heart.
You're allowing yourself toopen up more and more to this

(01:30:14):
gentleness.
So what triggered me to get intothis heart space?
I've been reading this book andit's been recommended by my
friend, wayne.
Hold on, I'm going to look itup so I can let you guys know
what it's called so that you cancheck it out if you want to.

(01:30:34):
Love Without End it's calledLove Without End.
Love Without End it's calledLove Without End, and this is
basically an account of anartist who has Jesus come to her
and sit for a painting over aperiod of time.
Yeah, sal likes it.
He's saying it's an awesomebook.
Anyways, there's this part inthe book and I've been reading
it slowly, I've just been justenjoying it and going into

(01:30:56):
meditation with it and stufflike that.
So this part in the book whereJesus is talking about accessing
the sacred heart, oh mygoodness, I was feeling it
before I read it.
I was feeling this before Iread it.
I was talking with my husband,tony, last night I think it was
last night, yeah and he wastelling me hey, you're at 5000

(01:31:19):
feet elevation there in Ajiheek.
And I go, I have no idea whatthat fucking means.
Like what does that mean?
You know?
Because I never, I never likegot into elevation.
He's like well, it's the sameelevation as Big Bear, like Big
Bear Lake in California.
And I'm like, I'm like OK, sothat means something more to me,
because we would go up amountain to get up to Big Bear

(01:31:39):
Lake.
And I go well, what else, whatother kind of meaning does that
have?
He's like oh well, the air isthinner there.
And I go, oh, interesting.
And then it reminded me thatwhen I was walking around
yesterday in the afternoon, Inoticed my breath felt different
.
It kind of feels like acoolness.

(01:32:02):
It kind of feels like acoolness around, uh, around the
area of my lungs, like when Itake breath.
I noticed this coolness justlike really recently.
And so then I'm I'm readinglast night in the book love
without end about accessing theheart from the back.
It talks about accessing theheart energy from the back and

(01:32:25):
something about I'm paraphrasingnow you go through an opening
with your awareness.
You go through an opening withyour awareness to access this
sacred heart and it may bediscombobulating that's my word
from my recollection of it butit was talking about a coolness

(01:32:49):
that it's much cooler than theregular temperature.
And so I go whoa, is that whatI'm experiencing right now?
I didn't start to notice ituntil the day of several hours
before I read that passage.
And so I go oh, I got soexcited about it.

(01:33:10):
I go, I'm just going to relaxinto that.
So, before bed last night,probably around 10 pm or
something like that close to 10pm, I go, I'm going to focus on
that and I'm going to go intothat.
And, wow, that was like somekind of next level meditation

(01:33:38):
that I haven't experiencedbefore, next level meditation
that I haven't experiencedbefore.
And it's interesting too thatI've been dealing with what I've
been dealing with energeticallyhas felt like and I've called
it a broken heart.
I even asked Jesus.
I go, jesus, this feels like abroken heart.
What do you have for me, right,what do you have for me?

(01:34:03):
And it's funny because it's nota constant, it's not like I'm
constantly feeling like I'mhaving a broken heart.
I'm getting all these differentstages of relief.
You know where it's like.
Oh, thank goodness, you knowall these different stages of
relief.
And then, uh, then I noticedthis sense where and I didn't
associate it with the heart atthe time, because it felt like I

(01:34:25):
was breathing different.
Uh, you know, the lungs arekind of close to that area too,
but it felt like I was breathingdifferent, like when I was
taking breath, it felt cool, andthat's how it feels right now
too.
It's like at the, at the backof my body, there's a sense of
coolness, right.
So then I woke up in the middleof the night, and this is
something that's been going onsince I've been here in Ajiheek,

(01:34:47):
where I will not be sleepingfrom about 2 am to around 5 or 6
am.
I'll fall asleep in the night.
I'll fall asleep in the night 8, 9, 10 o'clock usually, wake up
pretty much like clockworkaround 2 o'clock it might be one
, something might be closer tothree, but somewhere around 2

(01:35:08):
o'clock and not feel tired inthe least.
So this time I went right backinto that sacred heart
meditation.
I started with Yoga Nidra, andthat's also synchronistic,
christine Christine did areading for me and she's the one
who said Yoga Nidra and I go.

(01:35:29):
Yoga Nidra, that sounds good.
And if you guys don't know whatit is, it's basically you lay
there and you direct yourattention to different areas of
your body.
You listen to a voice tellingyou where to direct attention,
and listen to a voice tellingyou where to direct attention,
and as you do that, you just getmore and more relaxed.
Each area of the body where youdirect attention, it relaxes.

(01:35:50):
You feel it relax more and more.
So I let myself have like a halfhour of yoga nidra and then I'm
like, hmm, there again and youknow that longing for any kind
of sexual partner that has beenleaving me anyways, kind of like
with a sense of grief, you know, because it's like that seemed

(01:36:12):
like that.
That was kind of like thesymbol.
Uh, for this point in time ithasn't always been like that,
but that was like the symbolhaving like a nice sexual
partner.
That's mine, all mine.
That was kind of like thesymbol for hope, for something
in this world, something thatcan satisfy me in this world.
So there's a sense of grievance.

(01:36:34):
It seems like that sense ofgrieving over it has come to an
end and now it's like there'ssacred heart.
That's that's what it says,that's what that's what the name
of it, that's what that's whatJesus is naming it in this book

(01:37:00):
love without end.
Uh, sacred heart, amazing.
So it's like now I havesomething much deeper, that's
beyond this world, where I canjust go and commune with spirit
in a deeper way than I've everbeen able to before.
I mean, I have been communingwith spirit within my body's
energy field.
The first time I noticed itthat I can remember very clearly

(01:37:26):
was when I was 21 years old andthere was again a sense of
longing.
It was the same kind of longingfor someone, a body, to be
close to me and it was justshowing me you don't need that,
it's totally here within you.
And I noticed in that momentwow, I've got it here within me,
I don't need to depend onanyone, I don't need to go

(01:37:47):
through emotional hardships inrelationships at all, because I
have it right here within me andyou know, over time it's like I
knew it and I also wanted topursue something in the world
for a little while.
Oh, who is the author?
Her name is Glenda.

(01:38:07):
Let me Glenda Green.
Glenda Green, sal knows thebook.
See, that's a sign that it's areally awesome book, because Sal
knows the book.
He's amazing.
Yeah, he's really amazing.
It's rare, so rare that I findmyself I'm not sure I've ever
met anyone with a mindset likeSal's, going on for that many

(01:38:30):
years like that, I don't thinkso when he's been actually
having his eye on collapsing theidea, undoing the idea.
He's like I'm undoing the ideaof aging, right, and he's like I
don't care what I perceive, Idon't care what it looks like in

(01:38:51):
the mirror, right?
What do you like, apparently,age in your 80s?
70.
70.
Okay, so yeah, he doesn't evenmind.
He's like whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:39:02):
I seem to see here this is an illusion most people
think I'm younger than I was 10years ago he's saying most
people think he's younger thanhe was 10 years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:39:13):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, and that's the thing.
It's like what direction itgoes in and in the apparent
sense, doesn't really matter.
You know that may occur and itmay not in the dream, but
ultimately it will occurUltimately.
Ultimately, all aging will betaken right off of you because
it's just, it's just a misbelief.

(01:39:35):
Right, there's a process tothis undoing, because you know
for one.
Right, there's a process tothis undoing, because you know
for one.
Hanging around with a bunch ofpeople that believe in aging,
you know it's like you're,you're, that's, that's your own
mind, that's always your ownmind, and it's showing you OK,
this is what's hidden, this iswhat you have, this is what

(01:40:02):
you're given right now toexercise forgiveness, to be in a
forgiving state of mind.
Yeah, I get that book Durga.
It's been amazing.
I mean, sometimes it's like noteven, it's not even what's
written there, the text itself.
That'll just bring me deeper,but it'll be some words that
just trigger something for me tosee, and it doesn't even seem
to be the intention of the wordsfor that to be triggered.

(01:40:22):
Right At one point she was justmentioning how she never felt
diminished in the presence ofJesus and just hearing that it
just triggered huge opening forme.
You know, just hearing thatit's like wow.
It's just like to be in thepresence of someone where you

(01:40:45):
just cannot feel diminished.
When you're, you know, it'slike in regular interactions
with regular people, it's likenormally, you know, you get this
sense where you feel diminished.
It's not that they made youfeel diminished, but you're
projecting an image.
You're not seeing them clearly.

(01:41:06):
Jesus just happens to be anenergy where you can't project
onto him, to where you don't seehim clearly because he doesn't
have guilt to purify.
He doesn't have guilt left topurify in his mind.
So if he appears to you, you'renot going to feel diminished.
That's just how it is.
It is not going to feeldiminished by him, and that's

(01:41:28):
something that's different thatthe religions are setting up.
It's like you should feeldiminished.
It's like Jesus sees you, jesussees you.
We had a fun joke when I was akid.
I used to love this joke when Iwas a kid.
Okay, so I'm going to tell youguys the joke now.
I haven't told this joke in Idon't know how long.
So one day I was pulling mywagon and I was walking through

(01:41:55):
the neighborhood and I got mywagon stuck in the bushes
neighborhood.
And I got my wagon stuck in thebushes and when I got my wagon
stuck in the bushes, I fuckingGod damn piece of shit, damn.
You know.
I start cussing.
The pastor comes out and hesays hey, you can't be doing
that, it's sinful.
Jesus is watching.

(01:42:15):
So, okay, okay, so I, I leaveand I'm walking around.
I do it again.
I do it three times, threedifferent days.
I'm cussing up a storm.
The pastor keeps on coming outyou're gonna go to hell.
Jesus is watching.
And I go.
Jesus is watching.

(01:42:35):
What do you mean jesus iswatching?
What do you mean Jesus iswatching?
How is Jesus watching?
Is he right here right now?
And the pastor goes yeah, is heover there in the church?
Yeah, he's over there in thechurch.
Is he inside of me?
Yeah, is he in my wagon?
Yeah, he is.
Well, tell him to get hismotherfucking ass out and push.

(01:42:58):
Well, tell him to get hismotherfucking ass out and push.
That was one of my favoritejokes as a kid.

Speaker 2 (01:43:06):
What about the guy who's going to get run over by a
train?
Do you know that one?

Speaker 1 (01:43:11):
The guy who's going to get run over by a train.

Speaker 2 (01:43:13):
The guy who has convinced himself he's God,
uh-huh, says I can deal withthese tracks and the train is
not going to hurt me because I'mGod.
And so the train's gettingcloser and closer.
The train's not going to hurtme because I'm God.
Train's getting really close.
His guru leans out a nearbywindow and says remember the

(01:43:39):
train is God too.

Speaker 1 (01:43:39):
The train is God too.
Okay, yeah, that's a good one.
So he's saying I'm God, so thetrain isn't going to run me over
.
So he's on the tracks and he'slike here's the trains coming, I
know it's not going to hurt mebecause I'm God.
And then his guru, as it'sgetting closer, says remember,
the train is God too.
Right, it can't really hurt you.
Still, you made up this dreamand these seeming illusions.

(01:44:03):
And it's all God, bringing allexperiences as they need to be.
Yeah, so so.
So you know what made me recallthe joke about.
You know, tell, tell God to gethis, or tell Jesus to get his
motherfucking ass out and push.
And I used to love that joke asa kid, and I was a Christian

(01:44:23):
missionary.
I loved that joke as a kid.
It didn't bother me one bit.
I did not, you know, eventhough I was taught in a in kind
of a guilty way, not as much assomeone who was more
conventional, like being trainedconventional, but you know, I
didn't think of it as guilty atall.
I just felt like, you know, itwas a joke and also felt, you

(01:44:46):
know, jesus is loving, jesus islooking on me lovingly, like the
way my mom would say it to me,you know, when I was a teenager
and I was pissed about the way Iwas raised when I was a
teenager, you know, apparentlyin a sex cult and kind of like,
you know, abusive and stuff likethat, I was like the perception
I go, you know, and I wastelling my mom, hey, you know,

(01:45:13):
fuck that, I don't like the waythat happened.
And she's like you need torepent right now because Jesus
is going to, basically Jesus isgoing to do something to you.
You know her words were youbetter fall on the rock, like
Jesus is the rock, or else therock is going to fall on you,
like Jesus is going to crush me,right?
And that's when I was just likefuck him, fuck Jesus.

(01:45:35):
That's what I said.
And you know, when I said that Ifelt that man, jesus isn't
going to care, he's not going tomind.
I just knew Jesus wasn't goingto mind.
You know there was, there waskind of a sense in myself, like
you know, I kind of still feltlike, yeah, jesus is, jesus is
watching, but he doesn't mind.

(01:45:57):
And that was part of like whereI'm demonstrating to my own
mind that jesus isn't going topunish me, right?
I could say fuck jesus, andhe's still not going to punish
me.
And that's really the kind ofdude that he is right.
He, he's not.
He's not like that.
He's not watching you to punishyou.
He's watching you to help you.
He's watching you to help you.
He's watching you to help yousee through the idea that you

(01:46:21):
separated from God.
That's why he's watching you,right?
That's the only thing he'sdoing, and he's constantly
communicating his mind to you.
He's constantly giving you hislove.
That's why he's watching you.
He's not watching you at all ina judgmental way.
He's not watching you at all ina judgmental way.
So what I like to say is invitehim in to whatever it is.

(01:46:44):
If you think you're doingsomething wrong, invite him to
look at it.
And invite him to look at itwith you, because he'll help you
see it in a way that transformsyour awareness.
It in a way that transformsyour awareness.
There's nothing you can findyourself doing that's sinful
that's going to make Jesuscondemn you.

(01:47:06):
There's nothing that's going tomake him think that you need to
be harmed in any kind of way.
Karma isn't even a reality.
That's an invention.
See, we only have to live karmaas long as we would believe
that we've done something orwe've thought something wrong.
That's the only reason we haveto live karma.

(01:47:28):
All of that stuff can collapsein an instant, and that's what
Jesus helps us do.
Now he's a real sweetie,actually.
That's why he's coming throughin these different channelings
that have been made into bookslike you know, this one, love
Without End, and A Course inMiracles, and I'm sure there's a
lot more too.

(01:47:48):
That's why he's coming throughto show us, to demonstrate to us
that he's here with us.
He's never left us and he'soffering himself all the time,
all through all of our owninteractions, through any kind
of darkness.
You know, you might apply it tosomething like this, like this

(01:48:11):
is really simple, and a lot ofyou can do this, because a lot
of you believe that food couldbe poisonous.
A lot of you feel guilty whenyou're eating something.
Okay, but you still findyourself eating that thing.
Not you, chitta, not you, Idon't know.
Maybe you'll write me someday.
You know what Hope?
I've actually been sneakingthis thing the whole time and

(01:48:31):
not telling anyone.
I don't know, probably not, butChitta's a friend of mine who
seems to have a very strict rawfood diet.
Anyways, now, let's say, becausethis is a common thing you find
yourself eating something thatyou feel is poisonous, right,

(01:48:51):
maybe there's a birthdaycelebration going on and there's
birthday cake and there's someice cream, and you find yourself
eating it.
Now I've seen this so manytimes where people will be
eating something, unconsciously,without awareness, because they
feel like it's a guilty thingto do.
This is right, where you caninvite Jesus in, because Jesus

(01:49:15):
will show you that it actuallyhas no effects.
It's your believing that it haseffects that makes it have
effects.
See, there's like this hidinggoing on, almost like this
sneakiness.
The ego gets very sneaky.
It's like it's going to sneakthis thing.
Right, I'll just eat this realfast and make myself not realize

(01:49:37):
that I'm projecting guilt ontomyself right now.
Or let's say, you're findingyourself at the bar drinking
shots of tequila.
Invite Jesus in for that too.
He'll show you how innocenteverything is.
He prefers wine.
Sal said he prefers wine.
Apparently, in the Bible, heturned water into wine.

(01:50:00):
Is that why we drink red wine,sal?
I don't know.
I also really enjoy mezcal.
I'll go in for a shot of mezcalsometimes, or a shot or two if
I seem to be eating something,whatever it is, though you know,
let's say, you're hiring aprostitute.

(01:50:20):
Same thing, you know, I heardfrom a friend recently who was
condemning himself for hiring aprostitute.
It's like that's exactly whereyou want Jesus to be in on it
with you.
Any kind of perverted thoughts,any kind of murderous thoughts?
Just ask Jesus to look at themwith you.
Murderous thoughts, just askJesus to look at them with you.

(01:50:42):
That's what actually helps youto change your mind about what
your mind is for.
That's what Jesus is doing,helping you change your mind
about what your mind is for.
One way of saying it is formaking joyful, for making joyful
, so in making joyful, youwouldn't be going towards some
thoughts that make you miserable.

(01:51:04):
See what's happening.
Your behavior then changes,like.
For myself, you know,apparently I don't find myself
drinking in a way that's liketoo much.
I find myself drinking it's notno problem.
Yesterday I had two drinks inthe morning.
I was at a drag show and theywere serving Bloody Marias,
right?

(01:51:24):
No problem, it's like.
And what is too much?
Anything that feels not joyfulto you, that's all.
So your behavior actuallychanges to where you find
yourself, even in themanifestation, doing what feels
joyful to you.
When you're not doing what feelsjoyful to you, it's because

(01:51:46):
you're thinking in a way that'sprojecting guilt.
That's why you need Jesus to bewith you, and he always points
you back to the Holy Spirit'sthought system, which is also
parallel to the ego's thoughtsystem in your mind.
You're either choosing one oryou're choosing the other.
Neither of them are right orwrong.
One just feels a shitloadbetter and it's also your

(01:52:10):
heart's desire.
So you're gravitating towardthat anyways.
When you're not gravitating forit and you're buying into ego
thoughts, it's actually moreeffort.
It's actually more effortful,but we've been taught to be
effortful even in our thoughts.
So yay, everyone, let's havesome release, let's have some

(01:52:33):
sweet release, and I'll be backagain on Wednesday for another
ACIM deep dive.
I heard from my husband, tony,he feels like it's a little bit
dry at this point in the book.
I know I've heard this fromother people too that it's
psychology and it feels likeit's dry at this point in the
book.
I don't feel that way at alland it may just be that like

(01:52:56):
readiness for it, it has to dowith psychology.
We're going into Jung'stheories and Freud's theories
and Jesus is pointing out howthey got it right and where they
went wrong.
To me that's super helpful so Icould see where I go wrong in
my mind and can use correctionin that area.
I'll be back on Wednesday forthat same time, right here on

(01:53:20):
Zoom and also on Substack.
Durga says it's super juicy, notdry.
I feel like that too.
I feel like that too.
I know that that's how it is,but who knows, it could just be
like some people are interestedin different parts of it, maybe
when it gets into specialrelationship for him.
But yeah, I when it gets intospecial relationship for him.

(01:53:40):
But yeah, I find it super juicy.
I'm so happy to get back intoit this coming Wednesday.
So in the meantime, feel free tovisit hopejohnsonorg.
Go to my sub stack.
I've got writings there Again.
If you want a free, paidsubscription, just send me a
note.
If you'd like to donate, it'stotally helpful too.
Right now I'm just pretty muchliving off donation.

(01:54:04):
No, living off donations 100%.
So, yeah, go to my website andif you want to donate, you could
do that there too.
Also, there's one-to-ones.
You can book one-to-ones withme on there.
A friend was saying that they'dlike to have me over to teach a
community.
I'm available for stuff likethat too, and you know we could

(01:54:24):
work out whatever the detailsare pricing, anything like that.
I love it.
She asked me are you availableto people who are just beginning
?
I go yes, you know what I dowith people who are just
beginning Let them ask all thequestions.
They can totally challenge meeverything.
I love it.
I totally love it.
Okay, just like ask all thequestions.
It's great.

(01:54:45):
Thank you, glenn.
Thank you everyone for joining.
I love you so much.
Until next time, mahalo, alohaand a hooey ho, yay, thank you.

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Collapsing Time: A Non-Dual Approach to Eternal Life | Wisdom Dialogues @ Ajijic Mexico | August 18, 2025

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Collapsing Time: A Non-Dual Approach to Eternal Life | Wisdom Dialogues @ Ajijic Mexico | August 18, 2025