Undoing Separation: How Embracing Feelings Dissolves Suffering | Wisdom Dialogues @ Sedona | October 27, 2025 - Hope Johnson's Wisdom Dialogues

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
Yay.
Aloha.
And welcome to Wisdom Dialogueswith Hope Johnson coming to you
for the last time, at least fornow, from Sedona.
Yay.
Yay.
And I have one more ACIM deepdive on Wednesday.

(00:26):
So join me on Wednesday for thattoo.
Yeah.
Yes, Glenn.
Nothing happened.
Nothing happening here.
Nothing's ever happeninganywhere.
We're making everything uh justso that we can bring up what's

(00:49):
in the unconscious mind andresolve the underlying belief in
separation.
So we can realize the harmonythat's already here.
Yeah.
It's really simple, but youknow, the ego tends to
complicate it.

(01:10):
That's kind of like what youhired the ego for to make things
really complicated.
So it'll seem like uh it's okayif I have an ego, I keep an ego,
I need to be an ego.
The thing is, there is no ego tobe.

(01:32):
You don't need to try to masterbeing a good ego, let's say.
And don't look for otherpeople's egos.
It takes an ego to actuallyperceive another ego.

(01:53):
So the thing is, recognizingthere is no ego, you just deny
reality to all that stuffinstead of even getting stuck in
it at all.
It's just not real because theego is an unreality.
The ego is basically insanity,it's a thought system that's set

(02:13):
up that's based on separation.
Believing in those thoughtsbrings on things like illness,
accidents, aging, death, see,and trusting in the spirit
thoughts undoes the underlyingbelief that any of those things

(02:35):
are necessary to to the world,to the like the general public,
the kind the common person,death is is inevitable.
But to the spirit, it's notnecessary.
That's something we made up, andsickness goes along with that

(02:58):
too.
Whenever anything comes, uh anykind of uh illness, or you could
say dis-ease, whether it seemsto be in the body sense, or you
just notice frustration comingup, you know, if you're just
just getting frustrated, youfind yourself getting
frustrated.
That is a sign that there's athought that's up, ready to be

(03:23):
corrected.
That's all it is.
So it's not like, why do I keepon getting frustrated?
You know, why is it so hard forme?
Let's say being a parent, it'sso hard for me being a parent.
Uh, I get frustrated all thetime.
Instead of that, go into thefeeling of frustration, embrace

(03:43):
that feeling of frustration soyou could see its cause and have
its cause undone.
That way you're not projectingit onto things in the world.
And the reason why you want tostop projecting is because

(04:05):
you're just making this harderand harder on yourself as time
goes on.
You just keep on inventinggreater frustrations and more
frustrating things.
That's why people tend to godown a path of complaint,
complaining and complainingabout the world, and continue to

(04:27):
get more grumpy.
That's why we that's why weperceive older people a lot of
the times as being grumpy.
You know, and that's that'sreally what we're seeing is an
effect of them believing thatwhat they see, what they think

(04:48):
they see is actually there againand again and again by investing
emotion into it.
And that is an attack on thebody.
That's that's how it goes.
It just automatically stores inthe body as dissonance and it
shows up as pain, tension,blockages, sickness, disease,

(05:09):
wrinkles, whatever.
The only cause of all of this isour own thoughts.
So as, and you know, you don'tneed anyone to do this with you,
but you know, once you're awareof it and you've been practicing
it and you're and and you knowwith certainty that it actually

(05:32):
works.
It undoes that thought ofseparation.
So you're not living insuffering, you're living in
freedom, you're living in yourfreedom, right?
This is what undoes it when yougo, okay, I have an upset
feeling here, no matter whatit's about, no matter what it
seems to be about, it's alwaysjust an effect of a belief, an

(05:55):
unconscious belief.
So the way it goes is there'sunconscious beliefs in the mind,
and then those spring up as afeeling sense that you sense in
the body.
And most people aren't so tunedin with their body sense that
they even notice they got anupset feeling, and that
automatically triggers thoughts.

(06:17):
So that triggers thoughts toexplain and justify the feeling,
you see why it's never caused bythe outer world, it doesn't, it
doesn't even flow in thatdirection, and so uh, so with
this upset feeling andperceiving thoughts that are
justifying and explaining anddefending that feeling, and if

(06:43):
we believe in those, we justkeep on projecting the same
thing in a cycle, it's anaddiction, basically.
Because the nervous system getsa certain sensation, and it's an
addictive sensation has to dowith thinking we know something.

(07:08):
The whole world that we think weknow is based on error, and
we're only just interpretingeverything, so we don't really
know anything.
There's nothing to know aboutthe world.
True knowledge is knowledge ofunion with your source, that's

(07:29):
the only true knowing that thereis.
Everything that we have beentaught to know, which has to do
with the world, is just adistraction.
We can't really know anythinghere.
So as we, you know, think thinkwe know like how our government

(07:54):
works, how our bodies work, howrelationships work, we don't
know.
All we can know is union withthe source.
That's the that's you know,something that we experience
directly.
And this is how we get toexperience it directly by taking

(08:18):
any upset feeling and going, I'mnot feeling that for the reason
that I think those thoughts thatare projecting right now that
are telling me why I'm feelingthis way, that's nonsense.
Basically, that's a that's themiracle right there.

(08:40):
And you know, it's uh it's it'skind of shocking to the mind.
Because it's like, well, well,what what am I gonna do?
What do I do?
There's there's nothing to do,there's nothing to think about.
There's nothing to mull over.

(09:07):
Since I'm not really upset forthe reason that these thoughts
are telling me, then the upsetfeeling becomes a blessing.
That's why you could say, hoorayabout the upset feeling.
That becomes the signal.
Instead of being a problem orbeing something to ignore, that

(09:30):
actually becomes the signal.
And that's true productivity.
It doesn't matter what you whatyou seem to have done today in
the world, none of that stuffmatters at all.
It only matters how you be asyou seem to do it.
You don't even really doanything.
It's just a how you how do yoube?

(09:52):
How are you as far as acceptingor rejecting your feelings
throughout the day?
There seems to be this ego driveto get busy to kind of like
schedule up the day, so there'sno moments for just being quiet

(10:15):
with yourself.
No moments for recognitionbecause the mind's constantly
ticking about how important itis in the world and all the
things that it wants toaccomplish.
If you look at it in terms ofthe only true vocation of your

(10:36):
mind is this awakening, then youwould perceive productivity
completely different.
Did I do enough today to deserverest at the end of the day?

(10:58):
Because you're getting rest allday long, in the truth.
And then you just know you'reworthy of rest, you know, and I
say worthy of rest, you know,that probably trips people out.
Like, we're worthy of rest?
Yeah, that's basically what itis.
You know, if you lay down onyour pillow and you feel like

(11:20):
you haven't done enough orthought through enough or
whatever, you're probably notgonna get to sleep.
Or if you do go to sleep, maybeit's gonna be some restless
sleep.
Yes, you're worthy of rest.
And you know, you demonstratethat to your mind all day long
when you allow yourself to restbeneath the ego thoughts.

(11:42):
The ego thought system is meantto destroy you.
There's no uh there's no need totake it as anything real or
fight it.
Bertie's got a comment maybehere.
Yes, circumstances do notmatter, only state of being

(12:03):
matters, only being is material.
We do nothing.
Yes, thank you.
I love that I'm seeing so manyof my friends wake up to this
too.
I mean, really, it's uh it's andyou know, it's one thing to uh
say something like this, andit's quite another to live it in

(12:25):
the experience, right?
Bertie, I mean, we all knowthat.
It's like when you get the senselike, wow, I really did not
appreciate what that person didor the way they handled that or
what they said.
That's the moment right there toshift into reality, come back to

(12:46):
knowing that you just made that.
See, because when you harp onwhat you think you saw, you
project more of that, you justkeep on projecting more of that,
but when you recognize, oh, thatwas for me, thank you, and

(13:07):
you're just extending gratitude,everything changes.
Uh a fun example, something kindof kind of close to that.
I was uh I was at this littlerestaurant, hotel restaurant,
schwanky restaurant withhigh-ass prices, really close to
here.

(13:28):
Walk in, I get seated, thehostess seats me right away,
really sweet, sit down, and thenthere's a couple of uh servers
running around doing theirthing, serving tables around me.
No one looks at me, no onebrings me water, no one serves
me.
Um, and I probably sat there forlike 20 or 30 minutes.

(13:49):
I was kind of like, I was kindof like jovial about it.
I was just watching.
I was like, I wonder whenthey're gonna wonder when
they're gonna notice me.
And then, and then after alittle while, I was like, Oh,
I'm moving on.
I'm gonna walk down to the nextrestaurant.
Okay.
Uh, so I get up and there's thehostess who sat me.

(14:11):
She's seating another table now.
The restaurant isn't busy, it'sjust, you know, light.
And uh she says, have a niceday.
And I say, You too.
And you know, I could see thethoughts that wanted to hook me,
and it was they're just comical,you know.

(14:32):
It's like how a restaurantshould be run, it's just dumb
stuff.
Like it would, you know, uh, Iwonder if they just didn't serve
me because I'm a hippie.
No.
People can tell that until Iraise my arms and they're like,
oh, underarm hair.

(14:54):
So I just so you know, oh,leaving a bad review on Yelp or
something like that, you know.
I'm gonna mess those guys up.
Calling the manager, you know,and and so and and so it's not
that you shouldn't have thesethoughts.

(15:15):
Look at them as like they'recoming across on ticker tape
because they're programmed.
And you know, when you just areable to just smile at those
thoughts and feel the gentlerelease, the release just keeps
on coming.
It was fun.
So that day was my day forfeeling like uh I was uh I was

(15:36):
not what was the day, what wouldbe the word?
I was not uh served well.
Later on, I got the house cleanand then got a uh surprise$50
upchart.
Yeah.
And I was like, oh, this istoday's the day where I'm

(15:57):
perceiving not getting servedwell.
How fun.
And I just enjoyed the day.
I just enjoyed the whole day.
I had sweet interactions witheveryone because I know it's
only in seeing these things anddenying reality to them that the
belief in separation is beingdissolved through me.
It's easy, it's easy.

(16:19):
Uh, I guess you could say it'seasy once you come to a certain
point.
I mean, for a little whilethere's this practice because
you really believe the world isreal, and you got to take it on
faith and you know, just turnyour mind toward the truth and
watch what happens.
The more you see the results,the more you're going to be

(16:40):
certain and keep doing this.
Aloha substack friends.
I love you.
Christine is telling me myfeelings are apparently very
strong.
Sadness and frustration, anger.
Okay.
Yeah.
And you know, it doesn't reallymatter exactly what they are.
I mean, you can feel it in yourbody's energy field, and you uh

(17:03):
and you look at it and you go,oh, okay, so this is my
projection.
Instead of trying to figure outwhat's wrong.
Okay.
It's similar to this.
Uh, this might be the same,Christine.
I don't know.
But um she told me one timeshe's she was going around
looking for places to help herfix her back after she did uh

(17:26):
this one.
This I think it's called waistringer on block therapy.
Uh she said she hurt her back.
And it seems like it came fromdoing block therapy.
And I go, oh, well, just do moreblock therapy.
It's how you do it.
Right?
It's not like uh it's not likeit's time to stop now because

(17:51):
you got because you brought upthe pain.
You brought up the pain so thatyou can see it.
And you know, it doesn't hurtworse to uh do the block
therapy.
Basically, you're just bringingawareness into that space.
You just keep on bringing theawareness into the space where
the pain is.
So these painful feelings thatyou're feeling, the frustration

(18:11):
and the anger, these arebasically painful feelings.
And when you don't use them foruh miraculous uh uh miraculous
uh uh purposes, they end uplodged in the body and then they
show up as like a hurt back.
And it there's there may be acause in the world, but really

(18:32):
it's your mind projecting.
So uh sadness, frustration, anyof those uh feelings, when they
get rejected by you and notembraced, that's what lodges in
the body as pain.
It's not something doing it toyou, it's not anything in the
field.
So uh that's the same thing withthose feelings.

(18:53):
And it's like uh, you know, thefeelings present themselves like
they're really special andpersonal to you.
They're not, they're universal.
Uh, and when you undo them, youundo them for everyone.
So thank you.
Aloha Kalama, thank you.
I am having a challenge livingit.

(19:13):
Please help me come back.
Oh, you're so cute.
You just decide to come back,that's all.
That's all.
I'm just an example for you ofsomeone who consistently decides
to come back to truth.
See, all you're doing, allyou're doing throughout every
day is coming back to knowingwho you are.

(19:35):
So you're not trying to fixthese feelings, you're not
trying to make them go away.
You're in a an acceptance of thefeelings, being in acceptance of
them.
You wanna uh you want to seewhat's causing these feelings to
arise.
And the way to do that is to bein acceptance of the feelings.
They can't hurt you, they're notgonna hurt you.

(19:59):
If you have any specificquestions, feel free to ask.
I love you.
All right, so let's see.
What do we what are we sayinghere?
What do we have?
We have a lot of comments here,all right.
Glenn, Corinthians 3 19.
Let no one deceive himself.
If any of you thinks he is wisein his age, he should become a

(20:21):
fool, so that he may becomewise.
For the wisdom of this world isfoolishness in God's sight, as
it is written, he catches thewise in their craftness,
craftiness.
And again, the Lord knows thatthe thoughts of the wise are
futile.

(20:41):
Interesting.
What fun.
I love that wisdom of the worldis foolishness.
It's like, yeah, that's exactlywhat's going on.
The world is saying uh there'sthese problems, and it's fun
because it's fun to recognizethat like when you look at
larger, like world kind of quoteunquote problems, wars, and
stuff like that, there willgenerally be two sides opposing

(21:06):
each other about what's wrongand how to fix it.
See, it's it's a it's such adream, it's showing you that
it's a dream.
It's like the reason peoplecan't agree on how to fix it,
the reason people can't agree onhow to come to peace is they're

(21:27):
not embracing their feelings.
And you know, it sounds funny.
It sounds funny, it makes melaugh because it's like, man,
all these crazy ass things thatseem to be happening, even the
weather, even global warming,whatever it is, nothing is
really happening.

(21:48):
We're having an interpretation,we're each having an individual
interpretation of a world gonemad, and it's basically an
effect of not embracingfeelings, rejected
feelings-that's what causes allof this uh conflict, um,
violence makes the mind violent.

(22:10):
Okay, what's Bertie saying now?
And as soon as we admit nothingis happening, nothing has
happened, truly forgiving thewhole story and trusting in our
invulnerable nature.
Time snaps up, it collapses,right?
Is that what you're saying?
We know that we never evensuffered.

(22:31):
That's right.
There's never been anysuffering.
It is a dream.
We are dreaming of suffering,and it's very real to us.
Okay, so it's just it really isjust joy.
It's always been how fun toremember it, how fun to forget,
too, she says.
Yeah, because then you come backinto remembering.

(22:52):
Aloha Sal.
Thank you for joining.
Yes, I'm stoked to see you in acouple days.
Sal is from Ahihik.
I met him in Ahihik, and he'scoming over here.
He's gonna hang out um afterACIM deep dive.
Him and his sweet wife Mara, sofun.
I'm so glad you guys are comingto Sedona.

(23:14):
Thank you.
So, out of being afraid offeelings, we basically employ
the ego.
The ego says it'll keep us safefrom those feelings, it'll

(23:36):
protect us from those feelings,and the way it protects us is by
offering us thoughts thatexplain and justify the
feelings, because those are whatare used to continue time, keep
extending time out.
It's like we need more time toplay these out to completion.

(24:00):
That's why when we trulyforgive, like like Bertie's
saying here, and it may be aprocess for you.
I've I have seen that in myselfwith certain things seeming to
be easier to forgive and otherthings being more difficult to
forgive.
And that's okay.
You just keep on working withthose more difficult things to

(24:21):
forgive.
They just keep on cyclingaround.
And every time they cyclearound, you just soften up a
little bit more and dissolve alittle bit more.
So that's why we're given timeso that these things can cycle
around as much as they need to.
And that's why it's you know,it's actually a blessing that
the ego uses these things toextend time.

(24:44):
You see how the Holy Spiritturns anything that we made with
the ego into a blessing.
It's actually a blessing becauseit's giving us the opportunity
again and again to soften thisedge gently over time.
See, at first we might be waytoo afraid to just completely

(25:07):
go, I don't believe this story.
Notice how we want to hold on tothe story because we think we
know something about the story.
It's only when we're willing todrop the story that we can truly
have that underlying healing.

(25:36):
And, you know, to justifyemploying the ego to keep us
safe from our feelings, there'sthis common belief that we're
all egos.
And that's not accurate.
Whenever we do employ the ego,what we are employing is

(25:59):
insanity, it's fear.
There's nothing to try tocontrol about that.
The ego loves to get the ideathat it can be controlled.
You can control the ego, you canbe and express a good ego.

(26:21):
The more attention is given tothe ego as if it's useful, as if
the ego is useful to you, thebigger it grows.
That's how it works.
You want to deny any reality toan ego, even our any of our
friends, any of our brothers andsisters being egos.

(26:44):
They're not.
That's a self-reflection.
What we perceive of them thatlooks like an ego actually takes
an ego to interpret it.
So at that moment, we'reelecting ego.
See that?
We're electing insanity to makean interpretation that's insane.

(27:07):
That's not something that we areuh uh that's not the something
that we're looking to do if wewant to be in joy, because the
ego is against our joy, totallyagainst it.
If there is a body, there is anego, right?
There's no body though.

(27:29):
That's a that's aninterpretation.

See, there's the thing (27:31):
your your uh your body senses, look
at the body like this, it's asense that you made.
The sun has no reality, it'sjust a sense that you made so
you can get experiences.
Your experiences are closer tobeing reality.
You're making those, you know,you're making those experiences

(27:53):
with feelings and stuff likethat.
Uh, so you're using this body,uh, body sense like this, and
when you perceive another bodysense in the field, your body
senses stop at the skin thatyou're projecting, but that is

(28:15):
not really there.
So in denying reality to ego,that's what undoes ego in the
mind.
It's wild.
It's wild how crafty the ego isto get us to believe that the

(28:36):
ego exists.
It doesn't exist.
People are like, why do you talkabout it so much if it doesn't
exist?
Because we believe it exists inthe unconscious mind, even
though I'm saying there's noego, I know that in the

(28:59):
unconscious mind there is beliefin an ego, and so when it comes
up, this gives us theopportunity to deny reality each
time, and that gently dissolvesthe ego.
It's in a really gentle way forus.

(29:21):
You don't use ego here todissolve ego, you do not use
ego, you channel light.
The ego doesn't think in termsof what is really behind this
thought, or what is really uh,where is this feeling really
coming from?
That's coming from the Christmind.

(29:42):
You don't need an ego for that.
You only need an ego to makeinsanity.
It's funny how we just make itall up and believe that it's
fucking true.
Like Even that we're egos.

(30:04):
We've never changed from the wayGod created us.
We didn't become egos.
We started listening to an ego,but that can't make us become an
ego.
Because we could stop listeningto the ego any second.
And all of a sudden we'reknowing ourselves.

(30:27):
We're back to knowing ourselves.
Nothing to fix.
Nothing to attain.

(30:52):
Spirit has no goals except thegoals that make you happy.
Those are not of this world.
There's nothing in this worldthat can make you happy because
there's nothing of this worldthat can truly satisfy you.

(31:15):
But in learning how to listen tothe ego's voice, and you know
that goes on in school andeverything, learning how to
listen to the ego's voice, oh,this will satisfy you.
If you work really hard and youget to this thing, that'll
satisfy you.
What we really want is to knowof our satisfaction and enjoy

(31:40):
our satisfaction in the moment.
That way we're not looking forothers for their joy for our
joy.
It's funny just perusing aroundthe Facebook wall and noticing
how much is projected into thefield about what people don't

(32:03):
like, even what people don'tlike about other people.
I didn't enjoy when this persondid this to me.
You know, there's a reason forgetting a sense like you don't
like something.
And that's so that you canactually undo the underlying

(32:23):
cause of that.
That's basically what's known asignorance.
People don't know what they'redoing.
They're looking for some reliefby, I don't know, other people

(32:45):
agreeing with them that thatsituation is screwed up or that
person is a mess, or whateverthe situation may be, to to to
make it as if this feeling isnot even relevant.

(33:06):
There's a sense like I did notenjoy that interaction.
That's where you go to the theyou're not enjoying, meaning
you're projecting lack of love.
Did you perceive lack of lovecoming from another person?
That's because you projectedlack of love.

(33:30):
And this is giving you anopportunity to atone for it.
What is atonement?
There is no lack of love.
To recognize there is no lack oflove.
That's why we are willing tosee.
I projected this, I made thisup.
I made this person other than Igave them a purpose that's other

(33:57):
than the purpose God gave them,apparently.
They were supposed to fulfillsomething for me.
That's how you get an upsetfeeling.
They were supposed to never dococaine, for instance, right?

(34:25):
And people get the idea, wow, ifI have uh if I have this
circumstance and it's ongoing,maybe I have this kid that's
doing cocaine, or I have uh thishusband who's running around
with other women or whateversituation, I can't be happy.

(34:45):
That's the idea.
How are you doing today?
I'm not happy at all.
I have this, this, this, andthis going on.
Whatever is going on in thefield, it's meant to bring you
happiness, but only through yourseeing, through your embracing

(35:08):
how you react.
Really?
So let's go with uh let's gowith you have a child doing some
kind of drugs, cocaine,whatever, and you're having a
upset feeling about that,seemingly about that.

(35:31):
Be kind and gentle to yourself.
Notice what thoughts are comingup.
Where is reputation involved?
Are are there thoughts aboutpeople thinking something about
you?
Look for what's going on.
Is there a sense that she's notor he or she's not right on

(35:52):
their path?
Perfectly on their path,perfectly supported.
Don't let that perception tripyou out into believing that now
you have to be upset until thecircumstance changes.
Let yourself be relieved rightnow.

(36:15):
That's the That's the free willyou've been given.
That's a true true use of thefree will you've been given.
Allowing yourself to be happy.

(36:37):
So someone's mentioning afraidof jail or death.
Yeah, that's that's a that's aperfect opportunity.
You get a sense like, oh mygosh, I've had that before when
I was getting an IRS IRS audit.
I took so many deductions.
I was pretty sure I could go tojail when I was getting my

(36:58):
audit, and she's the woman wasuh kind of like threatening too,
and the way she was talking, shewas she was going, You're in
trouble.
So the IRS agent.
So letting myself feel, Inoticed the moment where I
finally, because I didn't letmyself feel it for a couple

(37:20):
weeks, and I was just brimmingwith anger.
And then once I finally letmyself really feel it and go,
what is this fear all about?
This fear of going to jail, andit just showed me so clearly.
If I went to jail, it would befucking awesome.

(37:43):
Jail would be rocking.
That's the thing.
It's like you you gotta knowthat wherever you are, that's
where the spirit is beingexpressed.
It doesn't really matter in whatcircumstance that is, but just
embracing that feeling, and thenuh and and then it's it's

(38:07):
perfect.
Fear of death is kind of similarto that.
It's uh it's like uh fear oftotal annihilation, like you're
just gonna be uh gone, there'snothing of you, something like
that.
Um, but that's not true.
And we know it, we know it's nottrue, but to actually undo the

(38:29):
fear of death in the unconsciousmind, that feeling also needs to
be embraced.
It's just the fear, the fear ofdeath, fear of jail, same thing.
Feeling just needs to beembraced in the moment.
That's all.
You're you're relieved now.
I'm so happy.
You see, it's just another ideathat you projected and make up

(38:50):
ideas.
Yeah, the ego constantly setsforth ideas to try to scare you.
It's really funny.
It's like, oh shit, you didn'treply to that person's email
yet.
It's like, thank goodnessnothing's happening.
You know, the email reply willcome exactly where it's supposed
to.

(39:13):
Okay, let's see what Glenn issaying.
Quote, you can't use you can'tuse light to seek light, end
quote, reflects the idea thatyou can't use an existing truth
or known wisdom to find a deeperor new truth.
Nice, because the new insightmust come from a place of not

(39:36):
knowing.
That being said, I am an idiot.
Hooray! Yay! Thank you, Glenn.
Yeah, that's something I've saidmany times.
It's like, you know, uh,especially when it's like
someone gets pissed at me forwhat something that I said here
on Wisdom Dialogues or somethinglike that, I'm like, hey, I

(40:00):
gotta be free to just be theidiot that I'm being.
This so this stuff just comesrolling out.
Uh that's why I tell people ifyou don't want to hear your
stuff on wisdom dialogues, don'thang out with me.

(40:24):
Okay.
Uh yes.

SPEAKER_00 (40:29):
Yeah.
Can I comment on that last thingthat he brought up?
I like that a lot.
Light and light, but so likewhat's coming up for me.
Uh yeah, we we need to gothrough our processing, right?
To expand the light.
It doesn't mean that that we'rein the ego though, which is

(40:50):
something that my mindimmediately goes to.
Doesn't it mean that we need theego then?
That's the ego's role is to likebring us into the darkness so
that more light can come out.
And yeah, I'm just saying, like,yeah, that's that's not it.
Yes, you we're still in theworld of change and um seemingly

(41:10):
growth, and you can still dothat.
It's and and it's where the myprocess is like what's undoing
is this like insistence that theself ends at my skin.
You know, that's so my senseself is actually changing.

(41:34):
Yes, sense of self is likeacknowledging that when I'm
undoing thoughts that seem tocome from other people, it's
that's myself.

SPEAKER_01 (41:45):
That's yourself, all the other people, right?

SPEAKER_00 (41:47):
Right, but that's not that that that didn't go
into ego, that doesn't have tonecessarily no, no, ego, ego is
just fear, so you don't have toyou don't have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 (41:58):
The world is based on error, so the world is a
representation of ego thoughts,and the body is a representation
of ego thoughts, but that's notyou, you know, it's
representative of a thought ofseparation, but that's not the
same as being who you are, andyou don't need to use the

(42:21):
thought of separation.
Uh, that just brings you sorrow.
You undo the thought ofseparation by recognizing
whenever it comes up as an upsetfeeling, that's all it is.
There's not anything occurringin the field.

(42:43):
Turning water into toilet wine.
Hmm, very interesting.
Okay, that's a fun one, Bertie.
Thank you for sharing that.
So, so yeah, let's talk a littlebit more about you can't use
light to see seek light.
So, basically, wisdom of theworld, right?
Uh, you can't use wisdom of theworld to uh seek the truth, it's

(43:05):
never gonna happen.
It's a matter of recognizing Idon't know anything.
Everything I've made of theworld has been based on
interpretations whose foundationis just fear.
So I don't know anything, right?
And and and I'm just gonna bereally uh accepting of whatever

(43:28):
it is I think I see because Idon't know anything.
And and you know, it's not evenaccepting in the way the ego
takes accepting.
I'm accepting what I think Isee, not because it's a reality,
I'm not accepting that it's areality.

(43:49):
I'm accepting it as myprojection.
That's the kind of acceptancethat it gets.
Not accepted as a reality.
It's not like this, you guys.
It's not like, oh, well, that'sjust the way it is.
Well, I guess I must haveprojected that.
Yeah, that's just life, right?

(44:09):
Or they tell you when you go tothe doctor, that's part of
aging.
Yeah, that's and you know, thatalways left me with a crazy
sense.
Uh whenever I would, I don'tknow if any doctors even told me
something was part of agingbecause I stopped going to
doctors in my 20s or somethinglike that.

(44:31):
Um, but just the cause andeffect thing.
I once had a doctor tell me thatI needed to start wearing
support pantyhose and keepwearing them for the rest of my
life every day, even when Isleep.
Otherwise, I was gonna hate mylegs by the time I was 40.
I was 30 at the time.

(44:51):
I was 30 at the time.
I know.
I I was like, you know, Iconsidered it, and then I told
he was he was actually wearingthem.
Yeah, he was he was walking histalk.
He was he was all about it.
That's unique.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like this old dude doctoror something.

(45:13):
He's like, he's and and and I Igo, I go, shit, right
immediately.
I go, I'm not gonna like my legsright now if I'm wearing support
hose.
I'm not gonna like this.
I'm gonna be like, fuck theselegs.
Make me wear support hose.

(45:36):
You know, like something likethat.
It just kind of like just noticethe way it sits.
It's just a thought you do notneed to believe.

SPEAKER_02 (45:46):
Next level.

SPEAKER_01 (45:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it would be funny if Iget to 40, right?
Uh and uh I'm apparently waypast 40 now.
Uh it's funny when I get to uhuh get to 40 and then uh and
then I'm like, oh shit, I hatemy legs.
If only I would have worn thosesupport posts for the past 10
years.

(46:16):
Or or when you when you go tothe doctor and and they go,
here's your medic, yourmedication to keep that symptom
at bay or something like that.
Uh, how long should I take this?
For the rest of your life.
In fact, you need to keep takingit for the rest of your life.
And you better have a good jobbecause it's 500 bucks a month
to take this thing.

(46:40):
I hear stories like um, if youwant to uh look good as you age,
you need a certain amount ofmoney.
Yeah, you need, you know, I'veheard I've heard this.
I've always gone to like uh anddone like beauty things like
facials and lasers and stufflike that.
So I hear, you know, all thestuff, you know.

(47:01):
Uh you better save up your moneybecause by the time you're this
age, you're gonna need to payfor a facelift.
It's like shit, you know what?
Things are changing so fast allthe time.
You don't know what thetechnology is gonna be.
At this point, they're notcutting your face and pulling
the skin back anymore, they'rejust using a laser.
And and you know, it just getscheaper and cheaper, too.

(47:27):
But uh apparently a bunch ofpeople didn't buy into that as
much as it was being promotedthat the only way, like you're
just gonna be uh a freaking oldrag unless you're really rich.
That's the only way you can doit.
Don't believe into thesethoughts.
Here's another one that's beenpresented.
Okay, you know how there's someguys who are really good at sex

(47:49):
and you have great sex withthem, and then other guys who
are really good at being apartner and they're usually not
the same one.
Uh well, there's this beliefgoing around that they can't
come in the same package, right?
They can't come, you know,people are saying, and why is

(48:10):
that?
Uh look at people are tellingme, uh, the thing is, when I get
the kind of sex that I like andthe kind of connection and all
that kind of stuff, the guyturns out to be a total
heartbreaker and I end up bummedout and all that stuff.
And the guy who is who wants touh commit to me and make a house

(48:31):
and do all this stuff.
I don't feel that way about thatdude.
Man, I've had that experienceactually, right?
Um it's not about what's in theworld, it's not about what guys
are in the world.
It's actually about what isgoing on that you don't see.

(48:52):
There's something going on thatyou don't see.
And one of those things that'sgoing on, that's a common
belief, is that those two thingsdon't come in the same package.
Anything can happen becausenothing's happening.
Open up to the to the solutionor the uh or the uh the

(49:14):
circumstance that you feel themost joyful about that, just
open up and also know thatnothing in this world can
satisfy you.
That's really important.
So it's not like you're uhyou're buying into longing or
pining for anything, but thelonging itself, any longing that
arises and you're willing to seethat's truly longing for union,

(49:40):
then you can just use thatlonging like that.
It's not gonna be harmful toyou.
The way longing is harmful toyou, and I see this a lot, is
where people believe that thenext relationship they get is
gonna be finally theirrelaxation.

(50:01):
They ah, ah, ah, I just and youknow, I'm speaking from
experience on all this kind ofstuff.
I know how it feels, and youknow, it's just like you got to
look at that and go, oh, that'snot where it's at, and
anything's possible becausethere is no world, these ideas

(50:22):
like there's no good uh partnersaround this area or something,
or you think you know everyonein the area and there's no one
eligible.
Not true.
And here's the other thingyou're probably unless you don't
have any um unless you don'thave any resistance in the

(50:45):
unconscious mind, you'reprobably gonna manifest friends
and romantic partners thattrigger you.
That's the part, that's thepoint, until you uh see through
all of the unconsciousprogramming.
See, that's gotta be seenthrough.

(51:07):
So it's like um when you get thesense that you didn't get what
you want or you're not gettingwhat you want, use that feeling
because underneath that there'sa longing for truth.
So I talked about a lot aboutthe unconscious mind a lot, um,
where the ego lives basically,and again, it doesn't exist, it

(51:29):
is actually a thought systemthat you made up.
So beneath that, all thatunconscious mind where the uh
the ego thoughts live is thetruth, the foundation of truth.
So, underneath, even deeper thanall of the ego thoughts, that's

(51:50):
why I say sink beneath them,sink beneath those ego thoughts,
is the deepest truth that youdon't need any of this stuff,
you don't need a person to behappy.
That doesn't mean that youshould project into the world
that there are no good people,or you should project onto

(52:12):
yourself like you don't make agood partner, or project that um
all that stuff sucks.
You know, for me, I just stayopen to the moment for however
the spirit is moving me in joy,so it just goes to deeper and
deeper joy.
Whether or not there is uh somepartner next to me doing it,

(52:36):
that's not the point.
The point is deeper and deeperjoy, and there's no way another
person or another partner isgonna bring you into that deeper
and deeper joy.
But when it aligns, meaning it'sthe most beneficial for

(52:58):
yourself, for that person, foreveryone else, then you'll find
yourself going into deeper joywith a person, but only for as
long as it serves.
And whether or not that seems tobe your decision to end
something or their decision toend something doesn't matter.

(53:18):
That is not uh that is not up toyou.
That's part of the show.
Whenever it occurs, um,beginnings and endings, it's
always exactly right.
So we can be happy about that.
And there's gonna be apparentreasons why, apparent reasons

(53:40):
why there's separation, butthose reasons aren't true.
Keep your mind focused on truthby recognizing that those
reasons cannot possibly be true.
The only reason you cametogether or uh went separate
ways in a dream at thatparticular time is it's

(54:01):
maximally beneficial foreveryone involved.
The story is just the story, andit's not it, it's not for
anything but pointing.
You could use it for pointing.
So you could show, oh, I've hadthis kind of experience, I've
had this kind of experiencebefore, and I've seen how I've

(54:24):
reacted before.
Let's see how I react now.
Now that I know this much more,now that I'm this much more
willing, really.
When I say it like that, knowthis much more, it's really
you're certain because you'veyou've come into the knowing so

(54:46):
many times and seen how is ithas adjusted your perception for
you, corrected your perception,that it's just what you do
whenever you find yourself inany kind of situation where
there's an upset feelingarising, and even when there's
not, it just constantly cominginto the knowing.

(55:07):
That's what I notice um withmyself in my mind, it just gets
more pointed toward onlythinking about truth, only
bringing truth and not havingthoughts about the world, not
entertaining thoughts about theworld.
I mean, sure, there's the onesthat that come up like, okay,

(55:28):
it's time to switch to laundryor something like that.
Um, but you know, justrepetitive thoughts, just like
gnawing thoughts, take ourattention and have us paying
attention to those thoughts.
Um, that just starts to go awaybecause you start to see how
meaningless they are.
You're not gonna pay attentionto them if you know they're

(55:50):
meaningless.
It's only when you believe thatthey're they can be helpful that
you start pursuing thosethoughts.
And really, you're pursuing themwith emotion.
Watch your breath pattern.
It's funny.
There'll be a uh a thought aboutsomething, and you'll look at
your breath pattern and go,dang, wow, I'm like pretty

(56:13):
excited right now.
And you look at the thoughtpattern and you're like, wow,
that's not a big deal.
But the but the ego just liketicks, ticks, ticks, ticks.
It'll it'll get one line of somethread that you've got going on
and keep giving you thoughts.
That's what the ego does, itgives you thoughts, and then you

(56:36):
choose whether or not to listento those or recognize that they
are in fact ego thoughts, andthey get used as an invitation
for deeper joy.
They just filter through allday.

(57:00):
I mean, this morning I heard athought, yep, you're getting
old.
I was like, oh, good one.
That's exactly what I'm talkingabout.
These are the kind of thoughtswhen they're just not seen and
they're automatically believed.
Of course that's gonna affectyour mood.

(57:21):
Of course that's gonna affecthow you interact with other
people.
A lot of people like tocommiserate about it, right?
Don't believe what you see,don't believe that stuff.
It's not a reality.
It's like, oh, thank goodnessit's not a reality.

(57:50):
Using it to make stories, youknow, you could take that
restaurant story and you can seelike a uh way you could say an
old person would look at it isyou know, the service is just
shit these days.
You can't get good help.

(58:13):
And then you just go on, go andmore and see more like that.
People who um focus on politicalstuff, worldly political stuff,
they just keep on seeing morestuff like that, and they can
understand why other peoplearen't all up in arms.
I you know, I I've seen uh postsalso where people are saying uh

(58:37):
if you're not really pissed offabout this situation, basically
something's wrong with you, andactually you're part of the
problem.
That's the world, that's theworldly way of being, and
there's no need to defendagainst any of that stuff.
You just go, oh, okay.

(58:59):
I've had people say stuff likethat to me uh lots of times.
But what I notice is the moreI'm I'm just embracing the
feeling, the less of that I see.
Earlier on, I used to see a lotmore of it.
I had a neighbor tell me onetime that if I didn't vote to

(59:22):
not come over again, she doesn'twant to talk to me again.
She wouldn't be my friendeither.
Yeah, yeah, and and so and andso I I just smiled at her and I
go, Are you sure?
Because I don't vote.
Like, I really don't.
Like, I'm really not gonna dothat.
Then she changed her mind.

(59:46):
Yeah, she's like, yeah, I had atry.
Okay, good.
Yeah.
It's like, I'm not gonna talk toyou again if you're not voting,
and sometimes I'm I tell peoplegosh how do you know you would
even like my vote if I voted ohwell I'm gonna tell you how to

(01:00:07):
vote that's fine democracy is anillusion democracy oh I know
yeah yeah I actually got blockedon on Facebook yesterday and I
was really happy about it ofcourse I'm happy about

(01:00:27):
everything but you know I made apost about how um you know when
we feel inner conflict we makeopinions that's what we do we
make opinions right whetherwe're telling anyone that about
it at the time or not when wedon't recognize oh this is inner

(01:00:48):
conflict it's feeling I'm havingan opinion is formed so then we
interact with people who haveopposite opinions and we argue
with ourselves because they'renot really there with an opinion
we're not really with an opinionwe're arguing with ourselves in
a dream.
So that's a lot of what's goingon and you could say that's

(01:01:10):
wasting time in a sense ofcourse it's not wasted at all
because even even where there'sstubbornness and resistance to
seeing this is building conflictand separation which are
illusions and you tire of it atsome point everyone gets tired
of it at some point.
Yeah so we don't need to wedon't need to try to change

(01:01:34):
anyone or change anyone's mindyou know I don't try to um
convince someone or anythinglike that.
But um anyways I was talkingabout the opinions and the
fighting and then someone made acomment about um Gaza like is
this what we tell this is whatthe question was is this what we
tell the people in Gaza thatit's just your opinion it's just

(01:01:58):
it's just this it's just thisand you know I go well well you
know this is actually aninvitation into a deeper um
living in this way notnecessarily convincing anyone
and you know of course someone'sgoing through something tense
and dense and stuff like thatthat's not the time to start

(01:02:20):
spewing spiritual truths on themof course uh nothing's nothing
said without love is trulyhealing anyways so he didn't
like that response I was likewas that just too much love was
that just way too much be justbeing loving yeah um one of the

(01:02:51):
major ego defenses that I sawand what and the defense that
that uh person used right beforehe blocked me was uh was that
we're heartless if we don't takea side we're being heartless and
actually allowing people to bekilled because we're so

(01:03:12):
privileged to not have to take aside right but you know even if
you find yourself taking a sidelike there's no rules even if
you find yourself taking us aside in a perceived conflict
embrace all of the feelingsknowing that your side look at
the side that you're taking isbased on conditioning that'll

(01:03:36):
give you the the kind of radicalempathy and compassion for
everyone who believes that theyare on a side and that it's
actually it's actually not aprojection.
They believe that it's real it'sa life and death thing to them
that's why it ends up in thisconflict and violence because it
feels like a life and deathsituation something is being

(01:04:00):
threatened and I have to defendso see that as in ourselves it's
as if something is beingthreatened and I have to defend
whenever there's an upsetfeeling that's the kind of
thoughts that are coming off ofthat to justify it I'm being

(01:04:20):
threatened and I must defend.
So that eventually goes towardviolence and some of us might
not be acting out violence.
Maybe we're not findingourselves acting out violence
but every time we get aperception that there's violence
in the world and don't try toavoid the perception of it it's
not a it's not a problem at all.

(01:04:41):
Every time we get a perceptionthat there's violence in the
world that's reflecting violencein our unconscious mind.
That's actually it's you cannotperceive what you didn't project
even if it's a big world thinglike let's say whatever's going
on over there in Gaza, right?

(01:05:03):
When someone brings that to myattention I just notice in my
body's energy field thesensation basically informing my
spirit there's the sensationthere's a reaction to everything
we perceive and and and whenwe're aware of it we're bringing

(01:05:23):
information and basically we'reaware of it because we're
willing to have ourinterpretation changed.
If we're not willing to have ourour interpretation changed we
make ourselves unaware thatwe're projecting the whole
situation and we'll go isn'tthat bad and isn't that sad with

(01:05:44):
other people and how bad some ofthese people are in the world
and you know when I see uh theseposts coming across my feed
about Donald Trump whether he'sa superhero or he's the uh
biggest villain ever I see bothboth of those it's a reminder

(01:06:06):
that of seeking salvationoutside of ourselves that's what
it it is a reminder of and youknow none of this stuff is
personal so when I when I have aperception I just feel what that
feels like because there's afeeling sense between projection

(01:06:28):
and perception and that's wherethe uh miracles take place
that's basically the frameworkyou could say it's a framework
of perceiving this sense you getlike something's wrong like
something of course you knowyour sensibilities are gonna

(01:06:49):
tell you something is wrong withwar something is wrong right
true and it's not it's notreally there that's the part to
recognize so that's how you'reinforming the spirit you're
informing the spirit that youneed a different interpretation

(01:07:11):
because you're perceiving warand this is the way it feels it
might not feel heavy to you andif it doesn't it's not like you
have to try to get every singlething you're gonna know when
something has got you hookedyou're gonna feel hooked and

(01:07:35):
then use that so a miracle isdemonstrating that the false is
false it's actually not therewe've been trained to make it

(01:08:00):
real and then try to change itthat is the problem everyone's
making it making it real andthen trying to change it like I
really have this uh let's sayanger it's not real it's a
signal and I really have thislandlord that keeps getting mad

(01:08:28):
at me for playing the music loudit's not there and I've got this
job that uh where I go andpeople don't respect me that's
not there either that's whatgets so exciting to be able to
see this and it's not in a waylike oh I must have done it that

(01:08:53):
way oh ho hum whatever no it'sit's up to you to uh channel
basically channel truth not likehaving an intermediary being
like Angel Gabriel or somethinglike that channeling truth like

(01:09:16):
being just an open channel forit basically that the false is
false and that's not a matter ofgoing around trying to convince
everyone else that things arefalse it's a matter of
recognizing for yourself okay ifGod didn't create it that's not
there if God didn't create agingdeath sickness conflict disease

(01:09:43):
it's not there it doesn't matterif I'm getting a perception of
it I want to undo the wholeframework of perception what's
making us perceive and that'sdone through denying any reality
to these things the ego won't dothat the ego cannot do that it's

(01:10:10):
not gonna turn on the feelingsand go oh what's really causing
those feelings no the ego'sgonna explain it because the ego
knows the ego knows exactly whyyou're feeling that way but that
knowledge is foolishness it'svery convincing people will even

(01:10:32):
tell you you should feel thatway gosh I would be beside
myself if that happened to me Idon't know how I would deal with
it I've kind of heard that in mylife growing up too you know uh

(01:10:54):
hearing an older uh person in myfamily say something about gosh
I don't know how she's able tolive with herself with all that
weight on her like that or Idon't I don't know how she can

(01:11:14):
handle it's like man just stopright there when it comes to
whatever anyone else'sexperience is that's just
reflecting that you're afraidyou can't handle something I had

(01:11:38):
a friend a friend once tell meuh came up to me and told me
look at that guy over there itlooks like he had a baby it's
he's so his belly's so flabby orsomething like that I'm like oh
my goodness I'm like what areyou afraid of it's all it's all

(01:12:08):
like that you know it's likeit's it's as if with the ego
it's as if putting it out thereis gonna keep us safe good thing
that person has to have theburden of having that kind of
body so I don't have to beaffected by it.

(01:12:29):
That's one way the ego tries tokeep us safe to separate and
make it oh it's something outthere.
One of my friends was telling meshe's in her 70s and she was
telling me when she was in her20s she would go to the beach
and she she would be like uh seepeople with bellies that hung
over and she'd be like be likeoh oh I'm glad mine isn't like

(01:12:52):
that I hope that never happensand then she's like and here it
is and it's a and and you knowit's just it's a forgiveness
opportunity it's like that thesebodies are not real whatever
they're representing to us it'suh you you could say they're
representatives of the egothat's why they don't exist

(01:13:14):
they're made out of meaninglessthoughts and they're proving
that they're meant to prove thatillusions are true they're meant
to prove that you're weakthey're meant to prove that
you're not basically you're notthe son of God you're not as God
created you.
So the whole uh purpose it of itthe way the Holy Spirit

(01:13:37):
repurposed the body is fordenying any truth to illusions
and then that'll make you veryhappy you won't mind what kind
of shape your body seems to bein so I've got a question here
is the body's felt sense beforeprojection if so I believe

(01:14:03):
tuning into the feeling is keyto peace.
Yeah it's it's perfect it'sbefore the perception it's
projected from uh it's it's kindof like right in the middle
though because it it's projectedfrom a belief in the unconscious
mind and then the felt sense isthe first effect of that

(01:14:24):
projection from that felt senseare thoughts to explain justify
and defend the felt sense butwhat it's really doing what
that's really doing is defendingthe underlying belief.

(01:14:44):
So you want to uproot theunderlying belief and the way to
do that is to not believe any ofthose thoughts that come to
explain defend and justify theupset feeling you have just let
it burn within you let it burnaway everything that's not true.

(01:15:05):
That's the way to use an upsetfeeling and you'll forget this
and then remember it and likeBertie said hooray to that you
know there's the forgetting andremembering phase but you know
there's also uh there's also aphase that comes of mostly
remembering or just rememberingreally quickly to come back to

(01:15:27):
knowing and you know that comeswith certainty you just you just
start going okay I've I knowwhat this is for if there's any
kind of upset feeling it's likeokay I know what this is for
that person can't do anything tome that government agency for
instance can't do anything to methat's why when the IRS agent

(01:15:51):
asked me she said are you afraidof me and I go no you can't do
anything to me that I don't needshe's like hmm this is
interesting you know and that'sthe that's the thing about uh
you know anything I was out Iwas out earlier um hanging out

(01:16:14):
and there was a couple ofneighbors telling me that um
they bring a light when theycome out in the middle of the
night because you could getclobbered by some wild animal
out here like a bobcat or uheven a jaguar could come.
And you know I noticed thisCeleste is laughing she lives

(01:16:37):
here I notice this sense becauseyou know I have gone out in the
middle of the night to have asmoke.
I've been out there like two inthe morning or something having
a smoke and I didn't even thinkanything of anything like that.
You know I'm just like lookingat the stars and stuff and
having no light and you know Inotice a sense of and a sense of

(01:16:58):
um fear I guess you would sayit's fear you know and and I
just looked at that and I go ohyeah that's right nothing can
occur unless it's maximallybeneficial that includes getting
clobbered or mauled by an animalit really does so so so then I

(01:17:19):
don't have to take any oh Ibetter take some precautions I
better protect myself orsomething like that or I better
uh bring a light with me.
Any of that stuff could occur.
It's just that I don't have totry to be in charge of it.
Because my well-being and mysafety it's totally comes from

(01:17:41):
being defenseless to the worldnot trying to defend myself
against the world defendingourselves against the world
actually brings on these things.
We don't need any defenses andyou might say what about locking
the door lock the door when youlock the door if you lock the

(01:18:02):
door um you're doing it in adream do it consciously
recognize that you're totallysafe and this locking of the
door is just a symbol that youvalue people not walking into
your house let's say it's just asymbol though it's not going to

(01:18:24):
protect you if someone needs tocome into your house and rape
the shit out of you that's gonnahappen when when you look at it
like okay whatever happens forme I am going to be extending

(01:18:45):
forgiveness that's what I'mgoing to do I don't need to
pre-plan it I don't need to playout scenarios in my mind right
come up gold or anything likethat.
I just need to relax into thetruth of what is right now and
be at peace because in thatpeace I'm defenseless and when

(01:19:09):
I'm defenseless I'm completelysafe all unsafety is uh is an
effect of being defensive yesbaby minds too even baby minds
it takes a lot of defensivenessto make a baby body just to

(01:19:40):
manifest like we're saying likelike I'm sharing with you here
the bodies aren't real they're asymbol of defensiveness so yes
even a baby um the mind isdefensive the mind is defending
illusions it defends what itthinks it knows that's why we

(01:20:09):
come into a state of not knowinganything about the world we just
say well I really don't know Imean for me that the kinds of
things that I seem to know umone of them is that I don't want
to eat seed oils I seem to knowthat right so I watch those

(01:20:30):
preferences play out but don'tbelieve that it's actually true
things are true enough to usbecause they are powered with
our underlying belief allpowerful mind we can definitely

(01:20:52):
convince ourselves that whatwe're looking at is really
there.
We can convince ourselves thatwe know what are the good oils
to be eating and it seems likeall of the uh scientific
evidence is pointing to thatright but when you recognize

(01:21:14):
it's not real that's not reallya problem and so then it doesn't
make me because and before whenI I would find something out
well this is the best diet I gota friend like that on here right
now it's like this is this isthe best diet I found out this
is the best diet so now I can'teat anything else I'm not eating
any other food but this diet youknow it's like it's like you

(01:21:39):
can't even listen to the HolySpirit wherever the Holy Spirit
would have you go and be rightwhen it's uh it's set in stone
like that.
So with that I still find myselfeating seed oils it's not that

(01:22:04):
easy to avoid those thingsapparently they're in all the
restaurants and I don't liveanywhere.
So I find myself in restaurantsso it's just a matter of denying
in the moment for me I just denyany reality to it to the idea

(01:22:29):
that eating really comes toeating anything can affect the
body that is ridiculous.
That's really ridiculous thatanything you eat can actually
affect the body and it lookslike it does I'm not saying that
I'm not denying that and whenthose interpretations come up

(01:22:49):
that's where it's giving us theopportunity this is not
affecting no nothing that I ateaffected my body my thoughts
affect it that's the thing aboutit being an unreality it's a
complete projection of thoughtsthat makes it seem really real

(01:23:10):
to you the things that it seemsto feel and being unreal also it
can't feel anything we projectfeelings onto it it doesn't feel
pain it doesn't even feel coldthat's another one that I work

(01:23:31):
with because mine seems to feelcold pretty pretty often seems
to feel pretty cold where it uha warm drink would really be
good right now.
So watching how the cause andeffect is playing and playing
with it and being playful andfun with it but not buying into

(01:23:51):
that that's a reality I'm not atthe mercy of weather I made the
weather too I mean really ourmind is projecting the cosmos
too all the way to that even theplanets we give them purpose for
us that's why we think we cansee them.

(01:24:12):
Anything we seem to see with thebody senses are really not
there.
And look at how much of it theworld that we perceive uh we're
perceiving with the body sensesso when we start perceiving and
this is true perceptionperceiving with union with
awareness of union then whatwe're looking at changes even

(01:24:43):
the apparent wars I mean theonly reason we're coming in here
and having a perception ofapparent wars is it's so that we
can help undo the need for themthe belief that says war is
necessary that's why we get thatperception we can help not only

(01:25:03):
just help we can changeeverything because we're all
powerful mind people are trainedto get angry about just
embracing your feelings becausethe training is that to be a

(01:25:28):
good person you're supposed tofight you're supposed to
convince people that this iswrong certain some things are
wrong and they shouldn't be andthings like that people do that
with child molesters all thetime that's one of the most fun

(01:25:50):
ones because people have such ahard time with that it's like
there's all also means there'sno child molesters God did not
create them means they actuallydo not exist.
What you are calling a childmolester is really a son of God
and you're talking aboutyourself especially those those

(01:26:15):
of you who get like reallydisgusted with them you're
talking about yourself.
It's a matter of going in thereand embracing the feeling the
upset feeling because that'sactually what brings an end to

(01:26:39):
the illusion of people takingadvantage of people which is
basically what child molestingis uh is a symbol of people
taking advantage of other peoplewe want to bring back what's
really true the power of themind to make these illusions so
that we can use the same powerto undo them.

(01:27:03):
Make it impossible for anyone totake advantage of anyone in your
mind.
And the way that it the way thatworks is whenever you get the
perception of anyone takingadvantage of anyone own it I'm
projecting this.
I made it as if there could be aworld where people could take

(01:27:25):
advantage of people now I justneed to feel what this feels
like so that I can inform thespirit that I want a different
interpretation.
See what I mean about clingingto known things something that
you believe happened someonethat you believe did it that's

(01:27:45):
clinging to something that'sknown and that's projecting more
of what's known what we reallywant is that's what that which
is unknown to the world to comeinto the world and undo what we
made that the ego will get realreactive to uh to say me saying

(01:28:08):
something like that or anyonesaying something like that.
And it's reactive because itwants to keep this idea that
people could be taken advantageof and someone can be a
victimizer.
And so we keep that rollingaround and and see how it has
this it comes with this senselike oh my god you're horrible

(01:28:33):
if you don't want all the childmolesters hung by their
toenails.
If you don't want really badstuff to come to child molesters
really it's all children.
We're all like children andthere's and there's a lot of us
that are ignorant to what'sgoing on to what the game is and

(01:28:56):
there's going to be those whoare just appointed to play out
because of a weaker mindbasically a mind more diluted
because they've been followingconditioned thought patterns
those people will be acting outthese you could call heinous
crimes for the rest of thepeople every time someone's

(01:29:20):
acting something out they'redoing it for you and and your
reaction shows you your reactionlet that be like a the red flag
the signal for you that showsyou that you're projecting it
instead of making your reactioninto proof that that person is

(01:29:43):
separate from you let yourreaction any kind of disgust or
anything like that be about whatit's about it's about the self.
It's not true it's not eventrue.
Don't make it true about thembecause your mind Takes it as
being true about you.
When you perceive a childmolester and believe that that's

(01:30:06):
really there, your mind takes itas you are a child molester.
And that is the same thing withmurderers or anything like that.
When you don't own it andrecognizing that recognize that
you projected it, your mindtakes takes it as if you are it.

(01:30:48):
Extended is is a word that'sused to say love.
That's extended.
It's not projected because it'sreal.
Projection is false.
So you can only get a perceptionof what you have extended or
projected.
That's why you can only get aperception of love or a call for

(01:31:11):
love.
If it's a call for love, whatdoes that mean?
It's a call for you embracingyour feeling that seems to be
about it.
That's the only thing a call forlove is asking for.
You don't have to do anythingwith the person, you don't have
to try to make them feel better,anything like that.
All of that is happeningautomatically.

(01:31:32):
That's part of recognizing thatyou're not a doer.
You don't do anything in theworld.
The only thing you do is eitherembrace or reject your feelings.
And that's based on who youthink you are.
That's why there's a period oflearning who you are so you

(01:31:53):
could discover, okay, I canforgive all these things.
I don't need to keep projectingjust because the world expects
me to do that.

(01:32:14):
You know, I find myself uhapparently not hanging around
with certain people who expectuh people to be in a political
mindset.
Like, how can you not be inthat?
How could you not be?
I just find myself not hangingout with them.
They they find like-mindedpeople, but I don't find myself

(01:32:37):
in conflict with them.
I'm sure it's I'm sure whateverthey're perceiving about these
things is perfect for them.
And I'm sure whatever theyperceive about me, if they just
uh perceive that I'm a whiteprivileged idiot.

(01:33:05):
I I'm like, yeah, I resemblethat I don't I don't have any I
I don't have anything to teachanyone.
So it's not like oh there's mystudent, I gotta teach them that
this is like this.

(01:33:28):
No, if people are interested inin having something shared with
them, it shows they show up likethat.
I spend uh I spend my uh my timein self-acceptance.

(01:33:51):
So when I meet other people, Ialways extend self-acceptance to
them because that's how it is.
And I know that's uh that's thehardest thing is just to accept
whatever it is that you'reperceiving that you seem to be,
whatever you seem to be doing,whatever thoughts seem to be
occurring to you, whatever shapeyou seem to be in, just being an

(01:34:15):
acceptance.
So then it's I'm automaticallygoing to be accepting of
everyone.
We only interact with people theway we interact with ourselves.
So people pick up on it too whenyou have some kind of a judgment
about them, like you think thatyou should you think that they
should be doing somethingdifferent or thinking in a

(01:34:38):
different way, even thinking ina different way is why I don't
have any problem with anyone'skinds of thoughts.
Uh you know, people could uhreflect to me that uh let's say
I should be killed.
I've heard that before.

unknown (01:34:54):
Jimmy yell.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:00):
Oh, thanks.
Yeah.
Uh yeah, and and you know, thatwas an opportunity.
There was there were people, andyou know, I set it up.
I set myself up for it.
I I knew um I knew there wasgonna be a good forgiveness

(01:35:23):
opportunity coming up, and andand I thought, I thought, yeah,
this will be fun.
So I just did a reallyinflammatory, apparently was
inflammatory.
I didn't feel inflammatory aboutit at all.
I just knew that it was gonna befun because people get
inflammatory easily.
Um, but I just put one post onFacebook.
It was during the time when umwhat's his name?

(01:35:47):
Joe Rogan was going through athing where he said nigger a
whole bunch of times and they uhthey took it, they took the
someone took all the times thathe did it, and it filled up four
minutes.
So he was even going, he waseven going, he was he was going,

(01:36:10):
man.
I listened to that recording andI just kept on going, stop, man,
stop, stop saying nigger so manytimes.
So so um, you know, that word isvery taboo.
It's that's one of the thingsthat's been learned.
And I saw that wow, this hasbeen learned that this were word

(01:36:32):
is very taboo.
Like if you say this word, likesomething is really wrong.
And it's and you know, it it's Idon't think it's coincidental
that it rhymes with withtrigger, actually.
Because it's just likeautomatically you hear the word
and strike, that's theconditioning.
You hear the word and you getreactive.

(01:36:54):
So, what do I do?
I take the word seven times andput it on a heart background and
just post it, just like that,doesn't say anything else.
And that's when I startedgetting death threats.
And and you know, I just I justhad so much fun with that
because uh, for one thing, Iknow no one can kill me unless

(01:37:17):
it's maximally beneficial, likethat's not happening.
Um, and you know, and otherthreats too, like ostracizing me
from the community and stufflike that.
And um, and I just didn't takeany of those as a threat, and I
just let people know, hey, Ilove you, and um, and I'm
telling you, this is a programto make you react to a word.

(01:37:42):
You're reacting to a word,you're not in your power.
Uh, that's the reason I did thepost.
And uh, if you don't want to uhif you don't wanna uh hang out
with me because of that, have agreat day.

(01:38:07):
Words don't mean anything.
The assignment, the and even theF word.
Look at that.
One friend told me, man, yougotta stop saying the F word.
Some people aren't gonna takeyou seriously.
And I go, fuck those guys.

(01:38:30):
This it's dumb.
That uh look at how dumb that isto make words into something.
Look at how stupid that is.
Uh okay, and then uh and thenit's like we're gonna put labels
on people.
If you say this word, this makesyou a racist.
Oh my god, you didn't even usethe A at the end, you use the

(01:38:50):
hard E R.
Oh my god.
One of our one of our friendswho uh identifies as black, but
he's pretty fucking white.
He did he he uh got a hold of mydaughter right away when he saw

(01:39:14):
that post.
He's like, What the I'm gonnaand my daughter's like, really?
You really think my mom'sracist?
You really think that's thecase?
Well, she did say that word.
How ridiculous is that?
Or you're not gonna get you'renot gonna get res uh the respect

(01:39:36):
because you say the F word.
I don't want that respect.
That's not that that's that'ssilly.
So uh so I noticed this newpunker guy got this.
Maybe he's not new, he's new tome.
Youngblood, you guys heard ofthat guy?
Youngblood?
Yeah, that guy cusses like amofo and it goes right on reels

(01:39:57):
and everything.
He's like to a little kid.
Come on, fucker.
And and that's the way that'sthe way words can be treated.
They're not there's no vulgarwords, there's no racist words.
Racist uh racist is just it'sjust hate, it's just plain ass
hate.
That's all it is, and that'ssomething you feel in your

(01:40:21):
system.
You can you can sense hate,hatred when you're when you're
having uh a hateful thought, andyou're and and maybe you're
generalizing all those people ofthose of that skin color are
pissing me off.
Let's say all those people ofthat nationality are pissing me

(01:40:42):
off.
Do the same thing.
Notice that your pissed offfeeling is not for the reason
you think.
Of course, it makes no sensethat it would be attributed to a
color or nationality or anythinglike that.
Of course, that makes no sense,right?
Unless you're talking aboutMexicans leaving trash on the

(01:41:05):
ground.
No, just kidding.
I used to live in SouthernCalifornia.
I used I used to have a thinglike that.

(01:41:37):
You know, and and it's it's thesame as anything.
Take that upset feeling that'sgoing, this shouldn't be
happening.
Uh, the Mexicans are invading,let's say, if you're in Southern
California and you're seeingstuff like that, and and
recognize it's a projection.
And the thing about uh race andand where they come from and all

(01:42:00):
that kind of stuff, it's justmeant to distract more and
convoluted and everything likethat.
You know, just don't believe init.
Joke about it, but don't believein it.
I think, you know, uh when Ilived in Southern California,
for one thing, Mexicans have areally good sense of humor and
they're fun and they can bereally uh self-effacing.

(01:42:21):
Uh, that's also part of theirculture.
They're really cool.
And you can actually jokearound, uh, and that's the
thing, to joke around about allthese spirit, these uh
stereotypes with each other, notlike behind each other's backs.
That's the thing.
Um, this idea that we'reactually um being mean to each

(01:42:44):
other by using stereotypes,that's not what it is, because
that's not really where it's at.
It's in the feeling sense, theharmony that we allow for each
other.
And, you know, a lot of thetimes this comedy and just kind
of like uh being uh beingjoyfully aware of our apparent

(01:43:04):
differences.
There's differences in culture,apparently, there's difference
in the way we do things.
Um when I was hanging out inMexico, uh I noticed people just
they'll just smoke like there'sthis this square that's outside.
They'll smoke, they'll besmoking while they're dancing,
and when they're done with thesmoke, boom, right on the
ground.

(01:43:25):
No problem.
Uh just you know how how how thehow the culture does it.
Um so this is what helps usappreciate the differences is
recognizing our sameness, and wecan appreciate the the
differences.
We recognize we're all the samein this union.

(01:43:46):
So then all these differencescan be appreciated.
Even a difference in let's saysome people get offended by
stuff and let and and let themget offended, recognizing
they're not really gettingoffended by anything on the feet
out in the field.
They're not really, we couldrecognize this for other people
without having to even bring itto them or try to teach them

(01:44:08):
anything or anything like that.
When we notice a person uhgetting upset, feeling
frustrated or annoyed at anotherperson, noticing for ourselves,
they're not upset for thatreason.
They're not really upset forthat reason.
So that's why, you know, thepeople with the death threats,
they just ended up being sweetto me again.

(01:44:29):
And and uh yeah, and my friendswere just like, what the heck?
How did you survive that?
You know, like they're like, forsure, like they see all this uh
huge uproar, right?
There's this huge uproarhappening, and they're like, how
did how do you even survivesomething like that?

(01:44:50):
And it's like because I I I amuh interacting with people from
a place of I know this isperfect, I know everything has
gone perfect, you know.
From uh from my post gettingposted from Facebook taking it
down within five minutes, youknow what's amazing is how much

(01:45:11):
attention that post got in fiveminutes.
It was amazing.
It's like it's like itbroadcasts so fast and so far,
and then also bam, take it down.
That's the word that you don'tsay once, not a much less seven
times, because it getseveryone's panties in a wad.

(01:45:38):
One person before I got shutdown, one person came on and
asked me if I'm black.
Like I'm only allowed to saythat word if I'm black.
Then I get oh oh I I I told him,I told him, Oh, that's really
nice of the master to give you aword.
One word you can have foryourself.

(01:45:59):
No, no, Harry, we're gonnaenslave you in all these ways,
but this is your special word.
You have to be a certain colorto say it.
Meanwhile, take the vaccine.

(01:46:20):
That was during that time too.
Um, with the vaccines, it waslike there's there's this huge
thing to get people all chargedup, like there's bad people
against them, and and almostlike you're gonna take a vaccine
to show them and then gettriggered really easily if

(01:46:42):
someone says the wrong word.
Defenselessness, that's a thing.
So so in that moment when uhwhen it came to me, when the
inspiration came to me to postthat thing, of course, there was
a sense of holy shit, really?

(01:47:03):
Like, I know that word doesn'tmean anything, but man, a lot of
people have tied a lot to that.
And it was just like, you've gotthis, you're defenseless enough.
You're defenseless enough to beable to post something like that
and not have uh any kind ofapparently serious repercussions

(01:47:28):
either.
A couple of them actually camearound and realized they're
like, holy shit, you were tryingto show us something.
Thank you for showing us that.
It's like, yeah, I want everyoneto be free.

(01:47:49):
Not take it as if there's somekind of victimizer outside of
us.
Not take it as some people havemore privilege than us.
You know what the privilege is?
It's nothing about this world.
The privilege is being who youare, it has nothing to do with

(01:48:11):
any color or any nationality oranything like that.
In being who you are, all thatstuff can get appreciated.
And then we can just have funand we can play.
You guys can play like childreninstead of being on defense all
the time, like who's trying tostep on my culture kind of

(01:48:32):
thing.
Who's trying to, what is thatcalled, appropriate my culture?
Let's appropriate each other'scultures.
It's fun.
Someone will say, you don't haveyour own culture, you're just a

(01:48:53):
white American, you don't haveyour own culture.
Okay, maybe that's true.
I could make one up though.
Apparently, I was Italian.
Apparently, I um my mynationality uh is Italian and

(01:49:16):
part German.
So uh my mom and my familyreally like being Italian.
You know, they uh a lot ofpeople, a lot of the people in
my family are proud to beItalian.
And that's not the case for mebecause I know I'm not really
Italian.
You know, I like to I like toeat Italian food, I like to

(01:49:37):
drink wine.
Um but I'm not I'm not like, ohyeah, I'm proud.
The other side of pride isshame.
And then it always comes rightback around.
And you know how you um in theuh in the media and stuff like

(01:49:58):
that, there's this promoting tobe proud of a particular color
or something like that, which isgreat, it's a good stepping
stone.
It's just that that's theopposite of shame.
Like, why wouldn't everyone justbe equally of as proud to be

(01:50:18):
whatever color they seem to bethen?
I mean, that would be likeproper use of pride, because
when pride is used to separate,it always leads to more
separation.
That's not what what we want.
We want to demonstrate ourunion.
Uh we're we're uh for the mostpart, I think, way more advanced

(01:50:43):
as far as being able to see pastthe color of our skin.
I mean, like what?
But it's funny because uhbecause when I was uh when I was
just a kid, you know, I was bornin the 70s apparently, and uh
and I would hear so much raciststuff all the time.

(01:51:05):
I would always hear racist stuffand like like you know, like
actually saying it this person,uh no wonder they're like that.
They're that nationality orwhatever.
And nowadays, it's not likethat.
It's really not.
It's more like people are on thelookout trying to find ways that

(01:51:28):
people are being racist, tryingto point it out like that.
But even with a even with aperson who seems to be in that
way, I've been around people whohave been, you know, like that
fucking, you know, like that.
Embracing that too.

(01:51:48):
Don't be afraid of it.
A person who seems to hate a uha certain color, don't be afraid
of something like that.
That's a call for compassion.
That person is divided in theirmind.
That they're they'redemonstrating division in their
own mind.
Self-hatred is what's going on.
So when we become afraid of thembeing racist, let's say, we call

(01:52:12):
it racist when it's reallyself-hatred.
And then then we make them intosome kind of a victimizer that
now needs to be punished.
Now we're really burying thisroot.
We don't want to bury the root,we want to bring it up.
So if someone's demonstratinganything that looks racist, it's

(01:52:34):
not to condemn them for it forit.
It's to embrace them becausewhat they're really showing is
self-hatred.
They need to know how loved andaccepted they are.
That's really what it is.
To try to change their mind andget them to accept a certain uh
color or anything like that isjust to cover up the root cause

(01:52:57):
they're hating on themselves.
Of course, this looks weird thatthey're carrying it out on a
particular color or culture ornationality.
But the fact is, it's still acall for love.
See?
So the more there's hatredtoward uh racism, the more uh

(01:53:19):
effects making more racismoccur.
It's only when you can embraceit actually laughing about it.
Really, uh actually just takingit so lightly and laughing at
the idea that it's about that.
It's really about uh the commonhuman condition.

(01:53:43):
And sometimes it comes out, itit doesn't really matter how it
comes out, it's gonna come outin some way.
Sometimes it comes out asracism, sometimes it comes out
as kicking the dog, sometimes itcomes out as uh uh being angry
on the road, flipping peopleoff.
But these are justdemonstrations of the same kind

(01:54:03):
of internal hatred that's notreally personal to anyone.
It's a it's it's uh thecondition of a mind that
believes it's in separation.
That's why we can help eachother undo it when we withdraw
these projections likesomething's bad about that

(01:54:24):
person because they'redemonstrating in a way that we
don't accept.
I talked about childmolestation, murder, racism.
The thing is, it's all comingfrom a hurt place, and that hurt
needs healing, and the healingdepends on you rather than

(01:54:48):
projecting your feelings,embracing them.
That's really all it is.
There's no world to change oranything like that.
So, hooray, everyone! Thank youfor joining Wisdom Dialogues.
I love you so much.
Thank you.
I see all of you, I appreciateyou.

(01:55:09):
Um, I'm gonna have another ACIMdeep dive on Wednesday, this
coming Wednesday, the 29th.
And that's gonna be my last onefor possibly a month.
I don't know.
We'll see um how things go.
I'll keep you guys updated on uhsocial media.

(01:55:29):
I'll let you know where I go andstuff like that.
Uh, in case you don't know, I'mon my ministry.
I just travel around, uh, staywherever people are offering me
a place to stay.
You could visit my website,hopejohnson.org.
Um I also do live in.
I just finished my first live-inbridging, transformational

(01:55:51):
bridging.
And you can look that up on mywebsite.
Review from it has been posted.
Of course, it was a really sweetreview.
He is super stoked.
He's feeling very free um andand very uh happy.
And seeing, you know, thesethoughts are just coming up,
they're just coming from theego, bubbling up and going, that

(01:56:12):
doesn't mean anything.
I'm just here for joy.
I'm here to extend joy.
Really, this everything I'mtalking about, the forgiveness,
the healing, the miracles, it'sall joy.
Like Glenn is saying here, it'sall for fun.
Hooray, and I love you.
I love you too.
Thank you.
Ah, hoo-e-ho, Kalama.

(01:56:34):
You want to visit me?
Awesome.
Okay, well, keep up on where Iam.
I think I'm gonna be in uhBellingham, Washington for six
months, especially since one ofmy friends who's close to there,
who happens to be in Masseuse.
You know how she's gonna supportmy ministry?
She's gonna give me a massageevery week while I'm there.

(01:56:54):
Isn't that amazing?
So that's like making me feelvery welcome over there.
I'll tell you that.
I also have a place to stay, uh,not only rent-free, but a huge
place on a lake that is reallyawesome place for me to have uh
some more meetings like this andpeople coming in.
Um, what else?
I have a jacuzzi, apparently.

(01:57:17):
So, and then I'll be back inHawaii May.
I'll probably be in Hawaii Maythrough October, but we'll see.
We'll see.
Things change.
I'll keep you guys updated.
Yay, I love you so much.
You're amazing, Kalama.
Have a beautiful day, Mahalo.
Aloha, and a hoo-e ho.

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Undoing Separation: How Embracing Feelings Dissolves Suffering | Wisdom Dialogues @ Sedona | October 27, 2025

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Undoing Separation: How Embracing Feelings Dissolves Suffering | Wisdom Dialogues @ Sedona | October 27, 2025