You’re Not Asleep—You’re Just Pretending | Wisdom Dialogues @ Sedona | September 29, 2025 - Hope Johnson's Wisdom Dialogues

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:07):
Aloha and welcome to Wisdom Dialogues with Hope
Johnson.
Thank you so much for joining.
I'm super grateful and blessedfor each and every one of you.
It's so sweet.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.

(00:29):
So we're going.
Let's say.
We're going all the way.
Um, and what I mean by that it'sknowing that you are already
awake.
You're awake.
You're directing your energy asyou believe it's the most

(00:56):
beneficial.
You're deciding all the timewhether you're gonna take
thoughts as truth or not.
You're deciding all the timewhether you are the truth or an

(01:18):
illusion.
But what doesn't change is youare the truth and you are awake.
So you have a choice right now.
You have a choice all the timeto see the world as if it's put
upon you something that's aburden on you, or as the one

(01:46):
who's projecting it, as the onewho knows that you're making it
up, knows you're making it up.
That's always awakening you.
You could say, My source isawake.

(02:09):
It's just that you don't believeyou are that one that's awake,
so it seems like you're asleep,and then you get the perception
that you're not awake yet, butyou only got the perception that
you're not awake yet, becausethat's the belief you're

(02:29):
projecting, so that's why you'rejust kidding, you're awake.
You're just kidding about beingasleep or almost there, almost
awake.
See, since your choice thatyou're making is now even the

(02:49):
belief that you were sleepingpreviously is just a
miscreation.
You don't need to keep that.
You know, one principle oftruth, you could say, is that
there is nothing that can evergo against God's will.

(03:16):
God's will for you is perfecthappiness.
God's will is that all ofcreation is loving.
That means you're completelyunaffected by anything that
appears to be unloving.
Since it's your perception,since you're making it up, you

(03:39):
don't need to pretend like itaffects you.
Even if you got it in writing.
Even if you got a video of it,it just didn't happen.

(04:01):
There's no way that anythingthat's not extending love can
occur.
It's just believing that it can.
And believing that it has, andbelieving that that has real
effects.
Only creations of love have realeffects.

(04:25):
There are no other creations,that's why.
It's imaginary, it's dreaming itup.
Yes, my love.

SPEAKER_00 (04:38):
A video is just the illusion proving the illusion,
it has nothing to do with truth.

SPEAKER_02 (04:43):
Right.
Every instant you get theperception that there's lack of
love in any form, from you toyourself, from you to another
person, from another person toyou, from uh a government to
another country.

(05:04):
It's all it's all just appearingas you made it.
Everything that you perceivestarts out as an idea in your
mind.
So you're invulnerable to thoseideas, really.

(05:35):
Truly want to be a hundredpercent loving and see only
creations that are a hundredpercent loving and lovable.
And that's where it goes.
That's where your perceivinggoes, that's where your way of

(05:56):
thinking goes.
When you're just willing to giveup, sacrifice is one way of
saying it.
Anything that hurts you, anyfearful thought, just being
willing to give it right up.
Like, let's say, for instance,you think you have what I hear

(06:19):
today, cervical cancer, and youthink you got it from having sex
with someone who had it.
See the cause and effect there?
See the guilty thought, theguilt, the guilty uh concept.
So it's in recognizing that theeffect you perceive is the

(06:44):
cervical cancer, its only causeis that you're projecting it
now.
And that is based on the thoughtof separation, which is outside
of time.
The whole world is in time,whatever happens after the
thought of misper ofmiscreation, separation, you

(07:09):
know, you thought youmiscreated.
But it wasn't a real thought.
That's why it has no realeffects.
That's why this whole world isnot a real effect.
Because this whole world is animaginary effect of that thought
that you separated, that youmiscreated.

(07:29):
Okay, I have a fun, uh,anonymous.
Good job.
You just went anonymous.
That way I can't say your nameon accident.
Of course, there's no accidents.
Whenever I say anyone's name,it's perfect.
It brings up exactly what'snecessary.
But if you go anonymous, you'rejust anonymous.

(07:50):
Okay, I have been co-creating anunhealthy pattern with an
individual in my extendedfamily.
What fun! I am clear I want thispattern to end, but I'm not sure
how to get out of it and stopcreating it.
I love this question.
This is so fun.

(08:11):
Sometimes it seems that maybethe only out would be to leave
the environment where they are.
Okay, so let's stop right therebecause that is a really good
question to just take a look at.

(08:31):
Okay, so this is one way thatyou offer it to truth, just with
that question.
Whatever serves the HolySpirit's function.
You just let it be whatever itis that serves the Holy Spirit's
function.
If it means you're leaving thesituation, that's the perception
you're gonna get.

(08:51):
Just be as curious as a youngchild on how the Holy Spirit is
gonna use this dynamic forhealing.
See?
You just ah, open up to that.
And then it's not up to me.
Ooh, oh, I might be leaving thissituation.
A thought occurred to me likethat.
Hey, that could be the case.
I don't need to plan for it oranything.

(09:14):
If planning does arise, itarises on inspiration.
I don't need to ruminate.
That's one thing that's juststopping that ruminating uh by
bringing it to a true thought.
Oh, whatever the Holy Spiritneeds, I'm willing.
I'm here, I'm willing.
Stay, go, whatever it is.
See?

(09:35):
They are a drinker.
All right.
They are a drinker, and whenthey get drunk, they are loud,
obnoxious, and unkind.
Okay, so there's a belief herefor one that drinking has

(09:57):
effects.
You may be, this is very commonfor people, harboring a belief
that drinking has an effect.
I mean, come on, yeah, you see.
It looks like drinking has aneffect.
That's what it looks like whenyou look with the ego's uh lens
on the world.
That's what it looks like.

(10:18):
That's not the case.
There's a there's a mentalaspect of this that's projecting
this meanness.
And when you get the sense thatyou're threatened by this
meanness, it projects it more.
It wouldn't matter if you leftthe situation because you're
harboring it.

(10:39):
You'll just keep on manifestingsomething that feels similar,
doesn't necessarily have to bealcohol again.
You could find yourself gettingreally adamant that you're not
going to hang out with anyonewho drinks ever again, but
you'll still get that feeling insome way or form because it's a
thought, it's an idea beingharbored.
So instead of they are loud,obnoxious, and unkind when they

(11:05):
get drunk.
You know, it's like when theyget drunk, this is the this is
the effect.
No, it's they are calling forlove.
That simple.
They are calling for love.
This is what's being asked inthis situation.
They need to receive areflection from you that they

(11:26):
have not changed from the HolySon of God as they were created,
as they are created.
They cannot be changed fromthat.
That's the reflection that yougive.
And in being generous enough togive a gift like that, you
receive the benefits right away.

(11:47):
You don't have to make anysubstance wrong.
In fact, when you do make asubstance wrong, it's a
projection of guilt.
And that ties into their guiltyconsciousness, which is making
them manifest this way in thefirst place.
As if they could be unkind.

(12:08):
As if it's not possible.
So the reflection becomesthey're only helpful, they're
only being helpful 100% of thetime.
As much as I've tried to lovethem through it and accept them
for who they are, their behaviortriggers certain behaviors in me

(12:28):
that I don't like and I want tochange.
Okay, so change comes fromvision, it comes from seeing
truly.
Okay.
Uh, so the the wanting to changeyour own triggers, that's a, you
know, that's a holy, you couldsay that's a holy desire.
It's a miracle impulse, youcould say.

(12:48):
That's where your psychic energyis going.
It's a miracle impulse.
So it's ready for a miracle.
So the trigger in you, look atrecognizing this person as a
part of what you're projectinginto the field.
And look at this.
This was very helpful for me allthroughout.

(13:10):
Whatever I feel, whatever Ifeel, that's the feeling that's
projecting this manifestation.
Think of it in terms of feelingfirst, manifestation second,
instead of the opposite wayaround, as if it looks as if you
perceive something and it makesyou feel a certain way.

(13:32):
Turn that around in your psyche.
So you're recognizing it's myfeeling that's projecting this
person in this manner and thissituation.
When you recognize that, that'swhere you could see how you
could relax, kind of likebeneath the upset feeling,
because truly where you are isin an embrace.

(13:54):
And so you get to see yourselfin that embrace, feel yourself
in that embrace, knowing thatyou're doing the projecting.
So you can choose whether youwant to maintain this energy
that seems to be coming at you,but is really coming from you,
or you want to relax your wholebody's energy field and just

(14:16):
fall into the embrace.
That's really for me a symbolthat it's time for me to be
aware of what's holding me andrelax into that with the
perception.
It makes me real easy withperceptions.
It makes me feel real easy withperceptions with anyone because
I don't get into pushing in myenergy field.

(14:38):
It's a big yes, let it in.
Let my energy field betransparent and transform
everything that seems to beupsetting.
Okay.
It's just a feeling.
As much as I've tried to lovethem, okay, certain trigger
triggers I don't like this willchange your behavior.
The effect is changing yourbehavior.

(15:00):
This is true cause and effect.
Okay.

unknown (15:05):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (15:06):
Such as I feel shut down in their presence.
Yes, this is what I'm talkingabout.
The feeling shut down, you aremaking, you're projecting a
feeling first.
And then the manifestationcomes.
That feeling is based on theidea of separation, which is
outside of time.
This is how you collapse time.

(15:28):
Because now you're not reactingto this energy.
Now you're in a state ofwillingness to embrace this
energy.
It's an energy that you'reprojecting.
So you get to be transparentwith it.
Just open up to it.
Open up to it.

(15:49):
You know, when you actually openup to it and you let go of that
pushing, and really the way tolet go of the pushing, there's
like a pushing energy in theenergy field, it's trying to
push it away.
Way to let go of the pushing isnotice you're pushing out of
fear.
Because it seems like thisenergy is going to somehow hurt
you.
It's not.
You're way bigger than it.

(16:09):
It's not going to hurt you.
You be transparent to it andyou'll feel it and go and
recognize, oh my gosh, it wasn'teven anything.
It was no thing, no thing.
Look how it transformed.
Certain behaviors I don't likeand I want to change, such as I
feel shut down in their presencebecause they don't listen and
just end up talking over me.

(16:31):
In the drunken state, theyalways just want to argue.
Okay.
So in the manifestation of it,when you're when you're relaxing
into the sensation that'sarising with having this
perception, just relaxing inthat sensation, you know,
anything could come up.
You could find yourself takingspace at that time.

(16:52):
Like, hey, how about how aboutthis?
I got something to do over here,and um I'll get back with you uh
maybe another time, or you know,maybe a specific time, or
whatever it is.
It just becomes really easy uhto basically live in your own
innocence.
What feels happy for you rightnow when you can when you can um

(17:15):
take in what's arising andwhat's arising, it's what's
you're projecting onto yourbody's energy field.
This is a body sense.
There's no real body here.
See, when we're believingthere's a real body here that's
not just being projected by ourmind, we feel we feel
threatened.
This is an energy field thatyou're dealing with here, and

(17:39):
it's a projected energy fieldwhere you project all your
self-condemning thoughts, andthat's what you're feeling.
Those are really justextrapolations of that thought
of separation that's outside oftime, though.
It's actually the whole cause oftime.
Okay, I don't want to speakbecause okay, they get pissed

(18:06):
off really easily no matter whatI do or don't do.
Wow.
This is what I this is how Ishare with people that seem to
get really pissed off in frontof me, right?
Wow, I appreciate the passionthat you're showing right now.
Tell me more, you know, becausethat's how it feels to me.

(18:29):
It's like, whoa, that's a bigenergy.
Tell me more.
Like, what are you going throughright now?
Right?
So it's not taking on this ideathat you actually did something
or didn't do something, and it'snot actually, it's not arguing
it with it either.

(18:49):
You you probably know, I'mguessing, that there's no reason
for him to get angry at youever, except the thought of
separation, which makes it acall for love.
It's calling for help.
He's calling for help.
So this is how you help him.
You help yourself.
You be in a you be in your owncompassion, in your own

(19:11):
compassion.
This is who you are.
This is your uh yourself.
Be in your own compassion forthe energy that's arising right
now that seems to be fearful toyou, but is not one bit fearful
because it's only an energyfield.
You don't have to suffer over anenergy arising, an energy that

(19:32):
you're projecting, and allenergy that you experience,
perceive, you're projecting.
It doesn't come from outside ofyou.
So you communicate to that tohim by recognizing it within
yourself.
Doesn't make you argumentative,right?

(19:54):
If you if you're argumentative,you're still afraid.
That's all.
It's okay.
If you perceive yourselfargumentative, just recognize,
oh, I'm still afraid.
How cute.
So this is where them gettingpissed off meets peace.
And it neutralizes the wholething.

(20:17):
See, it neutralizes the wholething.
Don't give anything power overhis mind, like alcohol.
Don't give any, don't give thatpower over his mind.
Basically, you're givingsomething outside of yourself
power over your mind when you dothat.
See that?
It all feels so heavy.
I know.
And you've worked yourself intothis heavy feeling, which is a
blessing.

(20:37):
It's a blessing to know that.
Whatever, however heavy thefeeling is, you've worked
yourself into that feeling byfollowing ideas that resonate
with that feeling.
So that's a blessing to knowthat because those are not real
effects.
These are not layers that youhave to get through.
It's just a matter ofperceiving, and that's a matter

(20:58):
of willingness to perceive thatthese effects aren't true.
You're completely free and inthe peace of God, you're in a
holy embrace right now.
That never changed.

SPEAKER_01 (21:11):
Diana's greging up.
It's a comedy.
It's a comedy over here.

SPEAKER_02 (21:21):
Ah, aloha kalama.
So uh so she says, when we arestuck with a person, so we just
change to love.
That's right.
You're never really stuck with aperson, you're stuck with your
interpretation of the wholesituation.
You're interpreting him,yourself, whatever, all these

(21:42):
different things.
Thoughts come in so much andthey tell you about your life.
They narrate your life to you.
They are full of lies, they arefull of self-defeating,
self-sabotaging lies.
Don't believe them.
Don't worry about yourrelationship with the person.
Let it be given to the HolySpirit's function.

(22:04):
When it's given to the HolySpirit's function, it's always
serving you.
You know it's always servingyou.
You think of it as a containerfor your shared growth or your
shared advance toward knowingagain.
See?
You're this is the only reasonfor relating.

(22:27):
So when you see that that's theonly reason for it, then that's
what you're using it for.
See?
Yes.
Okay, I know you do it quite abit, and it's great to hear you
laugh.
Okay, I think she's talkingabout laughing.
Laughter as your yoga.
I tried it just now.
Very good.
I love laughing.
Um, when I was a kid, there wasa song, I forgot what show it

(22:50):
was on, but it would be like, Ilove to laugh so loud, so long,
so clear.
And I heard that song, and I waslike, that is very true for me.
The feeling when you laugh, thevibration in the body's energy
field is such that fear has nomeaning here.
It's really amazing.

(23:11):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (23:12):
So, yeah, like can I make a comment on that scenario
where there's like a mean personthat you know in your family?

SPEAKER_02 (23:18):
A mean person, yes, in your family.

SPEAKER_00 (23:20):
If the absolute truth is that when I'm in my
true identity, nothing canaffect me, nothing can hurt me.
That's a fact.
That's a fact.
I know that going in.
Wouldn't it be fun to watch howthe meanness, what part of it is
it hitting me?
My personality.
Oh wow, that's my personality.
Is it nothing can affect who Itruly am?
You get to like play with that.

(23:41):
Like, what parts what's going oninside?
And it has nothing to do withhim, but you get to play with
that.

SPEAKER_02 (23:46):
Yeah, you play with the energies, become really
playful with the energies.
Uh, Thomas is talking aboutnoticing when he perceives some
meanness coming from anotherperson.
Where does he feel that?
You know, noticing where hefeels that.
That's the uh that's anindication that you are
projecting it.

(24:06):
Doesn't really matter where youfeel it, you don't need to go
into it.
You can be really playful aboutit.
It's just a matter of tuning youin to recognize, oh, that's that
pain.
You can notice that too.
You might and you might notice apain in the neck.
You know, people say that a lot,right?
What a pain in the neck, or whata pain in the ass, right?

(24:29):
You can see the pain you'reprojecting is actually the
cause, and the underlying causebefore that is ideas.
So it goes in this order ideas,physical pain, and then
perception that seems to makethat physical pain, either
physical or emotional.

(24:52):
Because it's all attack.
All the ideas that come from theit come from the ego are attack
thoughts, and they attackphysically.
So it's a physical disruption inthe body's energy field, moves
to disruption in terms ofdis-ease and stuff like that.
It's all coming from ideas, it'snot coming from anything

(25:12):
external.
So when we see that, we're like,oh, this person who seems to be
a drunk asshole uh is actuallygiving me exactly what I need.
Uh, they're they're definitelyum they're deserving of nothing
less than gratitude for it.
They're giving me just what Ineed.

(25:35):
It's really beautiful.
And when I see that they cannotmiscreate, they're not capable
of miscreate miscreating thedrunk asshole or uh let's say
the immature lover, I had thatone recently, it is a freaking

(25:57):
projection.
It's not saying anything aboutthe other person.
All it is doing is giving yousome kind of uh fuel, you could
say, for seeing the truth andseeing that they are not capable
of miscreating.
That's the truth.
They're not capable of doing itwrong, they've done it just

(26:21):
perfect for us, they've shown uswhat we needed to see, and the
result is more loving when it'slooked upon like that, it's a
deeper loving.
No one is as we perceive them,they're only as God created
them.
So even the way that we perceivethem is an image that we made.

(26:53):
So the images are meant also tobe extended love.
If you look at the images likethis, the images are
meaningless, they're like acontainer, they're like an empty
container.
You're welcome.
I love you.
They're like an empty container,and then they uh you you fill

(27:16):
them up, yeah.
You fill them up with eitherthoughts of acceptance or
condemnation, and that goes foryour image as well.
Your image is an emptycontainer, it receives, it's
like a receptacle container thatreceives your blessings or your

(27:37):
condemnation, and then it's itacts accordingly.
Yeah, all all of all other, allother beings you could say, or
all other sons of God, you couldsay, which are all one, they're
actually reflecting uh whatyou've projected onto your

(28:03):
imaginary self, your container,and meanwhile, they have all
their self-projections going on,right?
So so it's like these thesecontainers of self, empty
vessels, they're justreflecting.

(28:24):
So it's kind of like yourcontainer gets purified of
thoughts that defile it.
You can't be defiled, but thisis your image that you prop up
to take that for you, to bedefiled for you.

SPEAKER_03 (28:47):
There are like layers of projection happening.
You see that?

SPEAKER_02 (28:56):
Right.
My son seemed to want to shit tostart a fight, someone's
someone's telling me.
Your son seemed to want to starta fight, right?
I began laughing and it stoppedimmediately.
That's great.
I love that.

(29:18):
Sometimes I'm reading thesethings, and it's funny because
people think that I'm talkingabout myself.
I don't know, they'll just tunein, tune out, or whatever, and
they'll think I'm talking aboutmyself, and they'll be like,
hey, I heard you had a fightwith your uh your son or
something like what I just read.
And I'm like, what?
I think I read someone else'sstory about that.
But I have experience with that.

(29:39):
I have had fights with my son,and uh not very many because
eventually I just let him befighting on his own, do his
fight on his own, recognize itas a call for love and be super
sweet to him.
And it just calms all the energydown.
Same with anyone who wants tofight.
It's it's easy like that.
Laughing is Great.

(30:02):
Laugh and it stoppedimmediately.
I just told my son something.
I understand it must be reallydifficult growing up with a mom
like me.

SPEAKER_01 (30:22):
I feel your pain.
And he's like, no, mom, you'reactually not that bad.

SPEAKER_03 (30:34):
You know, it's just when we try to defend.

SPEAKER_05 (30:36):
His thought changed it?

SPEAKER_03 (30:38):
Yeah, I yeah, just yeah.
Like yeah, just like, yeah, I'mI'm here to serve.

SPEAKER_02 (30:51):
Whatever perception you get of me, that's good.
That's good for you.
Right?
And it's not in a way where I'mbeing condesc what is it?
Condescending.
Uh it's not it's not in a waywhere I'm being condescending
with him, but you know, youknow, truthfully, like, yeah, I
hear you.

(31:11):
I can see that.
And you know, to me, it's allcaricatures.
Like every memory, everythinglike that, it's all caricatures
playing a role.
So even if there's a memory ofme doing something that seems
like, oh man, I wish I wouldn'thave done it that way.
Like I wish, I wish I wouldn'thave punched him in the chest.

SPEAKER_01 (31:36):
I got a memory of punching my son in the chest.
I wish I wouldn't have punchedhim in the chest after I saw the
look in his eye after thathappened.

SPEAKER_02 (31:45):
You know, and it's like you you look at it, you you
go, oh my gosh, it never evenhappened.
God didn't create it, so itdidn't even exist.
It was an imaginary thing.
And you see them as caricaturesjust popping up.
And it's like it's cut, it'slike it's a comedy.
It's a comedy skit.

(32:06):
And you don't need any, youdon't need to hold any effects
from that.
You don't need to carry anyeffects, not even for the kid or
anything.
It's like, oh yeah, that's fun.
Oh yeah.
Uh let's let's rest in thatfeeling.
And then you can have theexperience of it.

(32:28):
You can have the experience of,you know, it was shitty.
Wow.
Experience, yeah.
That was shitty growing up withme.
Oh, okay.
And have that experience, andthen you can see you don't
really want that thought.
That's a dumb thought.
It's all attention, it's allwhere your attention is.

(32:50):
And you know, when I'm talkingabout parent and child stuff,
like it's it's so funny becausesome people go, I'm not a
parent, or something like that.
And if you look deeper, itrelates to you because you keep
on thinking about that parentwho should have done it better.

SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
And then there's another voice in your mind
going, fucking get over it.
You're 56 or you're 80 orsomething like that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (33:18):
Fucking get over it already.
That was a long time ago.
That person even passed away.
Um, but you know, that's justalso the ego.
So it's just really a matter offeeling what that feels like to
hold to that idea that theyweren't perfect for you.
They weren't totally perfect,and notice how it feels in the

(33:42):
body's energy field.
That's a projection, and thensee if you want to keep it or
not.
That's the thing about uh about,you know, let's say becoming
enlightened, let's say.
That's the way people put it alot.
You have to give up every valueyou have about the world.

(34:04):
And one of them is what youthink your parents did to you,
right?
And so it's not a matter ofgoing, gosh, I'm such a pussy.
I keep on doing this, man.
It's a matter of actuallyfeeling that and recognizing
within your own mind, withinyour perception and body's
energy field that you don't wantthat anymore and you're not

(34:25):
gonna keep it.
So you could see this truly.
So you could see truly allrelationships that you perceive
are coming from you right now.
Do I want it like that?
You know, for me, I could seeall the things that used to bum

(34:46):
me out and make me feel sad whenI'd focus on them and go and
look at them and go, wow, thatis just hilarious.
That is just hilarious that itthat it played out like that.
You know, it just looks likesuch a comedy because everyone's
so innocent and just playingroles for the same purpose with

(35:11):
the same interest in mind to bereleased from illusion.
It's all playing out to bereleased from illusion, not for
anything else.
So I'm hearing that speak up alittle bit or move and or move
closer.

SPEAKER_05 (35:31):
I am hearing that when we are having uh experience
of separation, it's a judgmentthought.

SPEAKER_01 (35:38):
That's right.

SPEAKER_05 (35:39):
And if we are not able, and many times what we're
saying is that we're having abunch of judgment thoughts, and
whoever's getting the the bestband with an attention can be
the projection, right?
If it's not seen as you know, athought projection.
Yes, but if we are unable tomove out of the judgment, then

(36:03):
it turns out the guilt.

SPEAKER_02 (36:06):
And you start acting and you start acting weird,
passive aggressive and stufflike that.
Right?
So just notice, you know, youcould just look and notice when
do I act passive aggressive?
When do I feel like I need somekind of uh when when do I feel
like I need some love and I'mnot getting it?

(36:28):
That's basically what'shappening when you're feeling uh
passive aggressive.
Notice that, notice how itfeels, and notice that you're
projecting it.
So then you can see your mindwill just start going
automatically back to lovingbecause you keep on seeing how
you're making it up again andagain and again.
And it helps shift everyone backto loving.

(36:49):
Like one of my friends issharing about the son, she
shared before about the son whowants to start a fight, and that
may be his habit that he'sgotten used to in his body's
energy field.
My son was like that with mebefore, too.
And I just recognize it as ahabit that needs to get played
out in the light of truth.
So anytime he'd come with me toa fight before a fight, I would

(37:10):
be like, hooray, here's anotherone of those opportunities to
show them, show him that thereis no fight, there's just no
fight, you know, and and andwatch him try to throw daggers
at me to try to get me into afight.
And it's just like there's nofight.

SPEAKER_05 (37:28):
So you did go through the pattern of the
judgment of the behavior and theguilt of, you know, before you
were able to see that it was inthe fight.

SPEAKER_02 (37:36):
Yeah, I was kind of like off the hook too with it.
Like I scared the shit out of myson when he was like about 12
years old because he started toproject that I was a bad mom.
And I picked up on it and I justwas started crying.
And he was alone with me in thecar, and I was driving and
crying, and he just felt reallyscared in that time when he was

(37:57):
like kind of like, I don't evenwant to go anywhere with you.
Right.
That was when he was probablyabout 11 or 12 years old.
He's 23 now.
And and I recognized thatbehavior was really what spurred
me on.
You know, it's like thatbehavior.
I saw that behavior, and thatwas like felt to me to be some
scary behavior.

(38:19):
And so I was like, what is thiswith this idea that I'm
succumbing to some idea that Icould possibly be a bad mom in
the first place, that I'm notstrong and able to take care of
my son, who is already um, youknow, expressing something
vulnerable to him, like his momisn't being a good mom.
And then his mom freaks out fromhearing she's not a good mom,

(38:42):
right?
So my path on that was to seehow it's not possible for me to
be a bad mom in the first place.
So then I don't have to buy intothat guilty projection, which is
projection is uh is always whatwe're perceiving, we're
projecting.

SPEAKER_05 (38:59):
So the guilt will lead you to fear, is what you're
also saying, too.
Yeah, definitely.
Guilty thought will lead you tothe fear that the truth is that
you are a bad mom.

SPEAKER_02 (39:10):
Yeah, it and that is that's true.
Like that's it's an it's as ifthat's possible in the first
place to be a bad mom.
That's not possible to be a badmom in the first place, so you
know, we don't even need to knowanything other than that.
That's not possible to be a badmom.
Period.
I don't care if you I don't careif you're fear.

(39:31):
Oh yeah, I don't care if youthink you drowned your kids in
the bathtub.
You're still a good, you know,you're not even a good mom.
You're not even a mom, let'ssay.
You're you're your spirit havinga dream.
It's not like you're a good momeither, you're just not a mom.
You're not anything, yeah.

(39:52):
You're not a mom, and that isnot your son.
You're having a dream, andthey're telling you what you
wanted to hear.
It's all projection and uhperception.
So when you recognize it likethat, you can feel an energy.
Remember, the self you made isan energy field.
That's all that's happeninghere.

(40:14):
Fluctuations of energy andleading you back to love.
You can feel your way back, youcan sense your way back to
what's actually true.
So the sun automaticallylightens up.
He can't help it, he feelshappier, he feels more taken

(40:36):
care of.
When you say we're perceiving,it's projection.
So when in creation we are nothaving a perception, that's
right.
Perception is based on error.
The error is the thought ofseparation, so everything that
we perceive is an error.
The only thing real is love, andwe can extend love to one

(41:00):
another by recognizing that weare only love, and there's
nothing else.
So it's denying reality to theillusions that kind of cover
over love and make it seem likeit has a real opposite.

(41:21):
It does have an opposite, butit's not real, let's put it that
way.
And if you're perceiving theopposite, that's what's given
you right now to undo.
You do it for all of us.

(41:43):
And you never do it wrong.
Like if you don't get this rightnow and you're not doing it and
you're not willing to do it, orsomething like that, you're
never getting it wrong.
All that's going on is you'reperceiving yourself to be one
who suffers, and that doesn'tneed to be.
It's not in any way wrong.

(42:04):
You're always getting thelessons you need to finally see
that you're not one who suffers.
She's sticking her tongue out atme.

SPEAKER_05 (42:18):
That was a raspberry.

SPEAKER_02 (42:19):
She gave a raspberry.
Yeah, so you know what's fun.
It's like when you find yourselfin any kind of suffering and you
recognize you're doing it toyourself.
That's how I've had a lot ofawakenings like that, where I'll
just be uh perceiving that I'mI'm confined to suffering, like

(42:44):
I'm imprisoned by the suffering.
I can't get out of it.
And then I'll just see it realquick that oh my gosh, I'm
making it.
I'm making it suffering rightnow.
I'm making it into suffering.
The perception I'm getting, I'mmaking it into suffering.
All the perception is neutral,all of it is neutral.

(43:04):
I choose whether to make it intosuffering or not.
The definition of perceive saysto become aware or conscious of
something.
Come to realize or understand.
So can't we perceive creationtoo?
Uh no, because we see creation.

(43:28):
Perceiving is a substitute forseeing, so that's different.
Seeing is the same as knowingand loving.
We see creation.
Yay.
I love you.

(43:49):
And that's all anyone wants isto see creation.
So when we help our brothers tosee creation through our
reflection, that's how we see itmore and more.
Because we're really telling ourown mind that what we made of
them is not so, they are stillas God created them.

(44:12):
In A Course in Miracles, it putsit like this: like there's a
debt that you owe your brother,and that debt is uh repaid by
seeing them as they really are,they truly are.
That's how you repay the debt,is your willingness to see them
truly and not protect the imagethat you made of them.

(44:38):
And see, when you repay thatgift, your or that you repay
that debt, that's how youreceive the gift they have for
you.
So it's not like a typical debtthat you pay, it's like you're
indebted to them because youmade them into something they're
not, and you repay that debt byletting that be undone so you

(45:01):
can see them as they are, andthen that's when you receive the
gift they have for you, andyou're both blessed, and you
bless all your brothers throughthat.
It's not only for you.

(45:27):
Well, I've been playing with allkinds of interesting and fun
energies since I've been here inSedona.
It is so funny.
It's like I don't really goanywhere, but I seem to get on a
plane and go somewhere.
And it seems like the energiesare completely different here,

(45:47):
totally different set ofenergies to play with.
It's like, and and knowing thatthey're all within my own energy
field makes it all really fun.
That there's no there's no bodyoutside of me.
Everybody is my body.
Uh, there's no uh there's noperson outside of myself.

(46:10):
So whether I perceive them asbeing loving toward me or being
resistant to me, um, or being,let's say, maybe put off or
something like that, uh, I justplay with that energy because
it's like always when you'renew, like new to a person, um,

(46:31):
it seems like you know, they'rejust like checking you out or
something like that and seeinghow it is.
And the thing is, the whole timeyou're relating, it's like
you're either makinginterpretations based on what
you perceive, or you're givingit all to the Holy Spirit's
interpretation to smootheverything out.

(46:54):
The mind will automatically,when it sees a new person, try
to define them.
One friend was sharing with methat he he's just watching how
his mind will make up whether ornot a person is worthy of his
time, energy, or respect simplybased on how they're dressed.

(47:16):
He'll just see that.
Right?
And it's always aself-reflection because this
friend, you know, he he got theperception that it was a way of
worshiping God to be dressingnice, you know, which is
awesome.
That's totally fun.
That's not a problem at all.

(47:36):
You could make that your way ofworshiping God.
I make anything I seem to do myway of worshiping God, right?
Uh, so so the hook on that wouldbe that if people don't seem to
care about the way they dress asif they're like a lower level
consciousness or something likethat.

(47:57):
That's not the way it is.
I've also heard that withveganism, they they assume, and
a lot of times, you know, peoplewill uh will interact with me a
little bit or hear my videos orwhatever, and then they'll be so
shocked to find out I'm notidentified as a vegetarian or
vegan.
And and I'm and and I'm justlike, really, like what gave you

(48:20):
that idea that I would be in thefirst place?
I mean, uh what what even gaveyou that idea?
I mean, do I look like avegetarian or vegan?
Is that what we're saying?
No, I just thought that youknow, at your level of
consciousness that you would eathigher vibrational food.

(48:41):
And I'm just like, oh, well, Igive all the all the vibration
to all the food I seem to put inmy mouth.
And you know, from myperspective on let's say eating
food, I seem to eat the bestpossible food I could possibly
eat.
I mean, I just I just love it.
My food is just like super, it'sjust like it feels nourishing.

(49:03):
It feels um let's say, let's sayuh vibrational high frequency,
right?
It's like because because that'sthe that's the juice I'm giving
it.
I'm making it whatever it is tome.
And you know what?
I find myself eating whateverseems to taste and feel the best

(49:24):
in the vibrational field at themoment.
That's all it is.
Taste and I don't have conceptsabout it.
I don't have ideas that tell methat I have to do it a certain
way, otherwise, it's lowvibrational.
If I perceive something that Iwouldn't normally eat for me,
let's say something that Iwouldn't like go out and buy and

(49:46):
put it in the kitchen and try tocook with it, canola oil, let's
say.
When I find myself eating canolaoil, you know, sometimes I'll be
at a restaurant and therestaurant will have something
like uh, I don't know, those uhthose those poppers.
What are they called?
They're like jalapeno poppers,like a jalapeno, cream cheese,
deep fried, right?

(50:07):
If I find myself eating some ofthose, I'm eating them with the
highest vibe.
I'm not projecting any guiltonto that thing, you know.
Um, for each of us, it's adifferent kind of uh object.
It was like we'll apply it todifferent objects.
Like some people say meat is lowvibration, or this is low

(50:27):
vibration, or this particularthing is actually proven that
it's low vibration, even provenin the field, it's not really
true.
That's fine.
You can still go for highvibrational foods.
I seem to, I love it.
To me, whatever, you know,whatever I seem to put in my
mouth is high vibrational justbecause it's in my vibrational

(50:50):
energy field and everything istransformed like that.
It's just easy.
Okay, Glenn has a comment.
I could tell it's gonna befunny.
So I heard you say pussy, butyou're not separate from me.
So I actually said pussy.
Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 (51:07):
Also, I am all the pussies, but in truth, I am not
a pussy at all, just a dream ofpussies.
Hooray! He just likes to hear mesay pussy, that's why he writes
it so many times.
You're so fun, Glenn.

SPEAKER_02 (51:30):
Yep.
And uh and and you know, we madethese words just to, you know,
to be fun or funny, or uh what'sthe other one someone brought to
me recently?
Profane.
They told me the words areprofane.
Who told us they're profane?
That's what I want to know.
Who popped up in our perceptionand told us they were profane?

(51:52):
It must have been ourselves.
Like there's surgeon words thatare harmful.

SPEAKER_03 (52:05):
We just made that up.
We made that shit up.

SPEAKER_02 (52:17):
It's like uh and and one thing my friend pointed out
that was really good is we seeeverything through a filter.
So if you see something asprofane, you're looking through
a filter of profanity.
That's what's happening.
If you see something as evil,you're looking through a filter

(52:40):
of evil.
I heard someone say this pastweek, I guess there's a huge
statue around here of Jesus onthe cross.
And they said he's got his eyesopen, and it's like he's looking
at you with this shameful stare.
Like you're so look at what youdid to me, you're so fucking

(53:00):
guilty, right?
So you can see how that'slooking through a filter of
guilt and shame.
Because if you're not lookingthrough that filter of guilt and
shame, the same exact image willreflect to you Jesus saying,
I've overcome the world, orsomething to that effect, or I'm

(53:21):
totally unaffected by any of anyof this because my mind is
purified of all guilt.

SPEAKER_05 (53:26):
His eyes are open because he's awake as he's
dying.

SPEAKER_02 (53:30):
His eyes are open because he's awake as he's
purifying the mind of guilt andsin.
Or you could say his eyes areawake because he's uh his eyes
are awake because he knows he'she's purified it and he's
looking at you like you'restoked.

SPEAKER_03 (53:54):
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (53:57):
Let this statue be a reminder that you're fucking
stoked.
See, see what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 (54:04):
It's all the filter that you're looking through that
would make it seem a certainway.
So when I get the perceptionsomeone is acting uh in a way,
let's say in a way I don'tprefer.
Right?
Let's say someone's being aperv.
That has been my perfect oneover all the years to show me
more and more.

(54:24):
Let's say someone's being a pervin your perception.
This is so common too.
I hear about this from women allthe time.
And, you know, I have becomereally fond of saying, I'm the
perv.
You guys who have listened to mefor a while know about this.
I've become very fond of saying,I'm the perv.
Okay.

(54:44):
I've been seeing pervs sinceI've been a little kid.
I would meet pervs anywhere Iwould go, places you would not
expect a perv.

SPEAKER_01 (54:57):
There they are with their finger in me.
Wow.
Right?

SPEAKER_02 (55:01):
So I became real fond of saying, I'm the perv,
right?
I'm the one projecting thatwhole thing.
And as common as it is, there'sa lot of female pervs.
They're always getting pervedon.
They're projecting it.
And you know, I say thatplayfully because no one's

(55:22):
really capable of being a perv.
I mean, if you heard me talking,no, that's true.
Uh, it's just, you know, it's away of tuning my mind in
comically for me.
To me, that's comical, just thesaying, I'm the one that's the
perv.
It just cracks me up.
Um to allow myself to see pastthe image that I've made of my

(55:44):
brother.
And that allows them to see pastthe image they made of
themselves.
Because really, what this is,it's mirroring.
So the trigger that's beingpicked up and on in myself and
what's being picked up on inthem, they match.
See?
So this is how this is why Jesusis saying how forgiveness lets

(56:07):
us go together with each other,like hand in hand, right?
So the the normal way to dealwith pervy energy is to stay
away from them, right?
For me, I it's just like how Ianswered that last question or a
couple questions ago up thereabout how should I leave?
And that includes leaving theimmediate vicinity or not.

(56:30):
So I leave that up to the HolySpirit's function, right?
Instead of I don't, I know Idon't have to protect my body,
though.
I know I don't need to do that.
Uh, it's because of the uh thedefenselessness that I allow
myself to perceive.
That's the lens I use toperceive that I'm totally safe

(56:50):
in every situation, right?
It's like even when we get theperception of we've been raped,
truly that it was consensual.
Truly, it was consensual.
You don't see it that waybecause you don't want to yet.
You want to see that you'rebeing victimized, and that's why

(57:13):
you're projecting victimizers.
So I started to notice thisearly on, right?
I started to notice this, and Iwas like, I'm totally in command
here.
Like, no one's really gonna doanything to me against my will.
And even in that uh hotel inIndia when that guy grabbed me,
one thought that went through mymind is like, worst case

(57:36):
scenario, I'm getting laid by adude in his 30s.

SPEAKER_01 (57:43):
Sorry, honey, I've been raped.
And so I started cracking up.
The dude's on me, and I'm justcracking up, laughing.
At the same time, I'm going, youknow, I'm I'm saying really
clearly, get your hands off myass too, at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 (58:04):
You know, I just saw I'm like watching the boundary
arise.
It just comes as it needs to.
So in seeing that it's all meand feeling totally safe with
all these kinds of energies,it's kind of like I could push
the edges of it a little bit,like I could let it be.
Okay, I see this sense likesomething is uh wanted here.

(58:26):
It seems like something'swanted.
It seems like it's a sinisterkind of want.
Oh, it must be a miracleimpulse.
That's what it actually is.
It's a miracle impulse, it'stotally innocent.
So then I can uh actively, thisis how we participate in the

(58:47):
healing.
I can actively release mybrother from his wound.
Because even for me to get thatuh interpretation, that
energetic interpretation,there's a match.
So it's like, I what do I wantmore than anything?
I want to release him when he'scoming to me for help.

(59:08):
That's basically what he'sdoing.
It's a call for help.
It's a call for love.
It's basically he's giving me acall for love right now.
So to see it as it is, all ofthe manifestations play out in
exactly the way they need to.
But I saw the thought behind itthat was really fun.
It was really, it was reallycute and fun.
It was he's just trying to getsomething, and he shouldn't have

(59:33):
what he wants.

SPEAKER_01 (59:35):
He should not get what he wants.

SPEAKER_02 (59:41):
Right?
It's like it's it's just aprogram.
It's just a program.
And when we see past theprogramming, we can actually
communicate with each other, andthat's where we extend love.

(01:00:02):
The programming tells us danger,danger, danger, you're in
trouble.
But love says, I got you.
Nothing can nothing can evenhappen to you in a dream where
it doesn't really happen, butnothing can even happen to you.
You can't even have anyperception that isn't totally

(01:00:25):
beneficial for you.
Think of that the next timeyou're walking down a dark alley
and you get the sense thatsomething bad could happen.
Just think on that and laugh.
You cannot have any perceptionthat you don't totally need and

(01:00:46):
isn't totally beneficial for youand for everyone.
So that lets you go intocircumstances like that.
You can also see this it's anenergy play.
So when you get the perceptionthat someone can have any kind
of control or power or dominionover you, you start to play into

(01:01:08):
that energy.
And this is an energy thatbuilds before it ends up into
something violent or somethingthat feels oppressive or
something like that.
So when you're noticing itcoming in, you don't have to
keep on playing it that way.
It's like I must be mistaken.
This always has me flashing backto the time where it seemed like

(01:01:28):
I was being raped by three orfour guys.
I can't remember how many, butum, uh it seemed like I was
about to get raped by them.
And I just asked Jesus for helpreally fast.
And I just started to see itdifferent really fast.
And I actually watched myselfturn the energy, completely turn

(01:01:49):
the energy to where they wereactually being totally sweet
with me, which almost made itlook like I was just making up
the idea that they were gonnarape me.
And that's exactly how it is allthe time.
Right?
That's why we can turn itbecause it's our own idea.
That's why we actually havecommand over all of the

(01:02:10):
circumstances, because it's ourown idea that makes the
circumstances in the firstplace.
So one of the things the HolySpirit has been using me for is
reflecting innocence back topeople who seem to be caught up

(01:02:34):
in this pervy energy.
They're not really that.
So just let them free from it,let them completely free from
it, reflecting back to them thatthat's a miracle impulse.
It's just being misdirectedright now.
That's how it goes.
It gets misdirected toward form.
The miracle impulse is really animpulse to join mentally.

(01:02:58):
It's to join in love.
So it may seem like you need uhto join with a body or to join
with some food or to join withsomething else, but you really
only want to join mentally.
And so do they.
So that's why we help ourselves,we help each other and we help
ourselves when we're willing tolook past these illusions that

(01:03:20):
anyone's outside of ourselvestrying to do something to us or
trying to get something thatthey shouldn't have.
That's not up to me.
Even my, you know, even my bodyis given over to that in a way

(01:03:43):
like I don't really care.
It doesn't really matter to mewhere this energy goes, as long
as, let's say, as long as it'sdeep.
And that's up to me.
As long as we're not just doingsome kind of little uh let's say

(01:04:06):
conditioned dance.
And that's up to me.
I was talking with anotherfriend this week that was
telling me about um changingpeople, like wanting to change
people, um in the same kind ofvein with pervy energy, you

(01:04:31):
know, uh to let them know thatthat's pervy energy.
And you know, that's another wayof saying, and you know, the way
she does it is she just says itand she's like it's fine.
I'm just telling you, this ishow I see it.
It looks like pervy energy tome.
You keep on saying this or youkeep on doing this or something

(01:04:54):
like that.
She's like, it's fine.
This is just the way I see it.
And you know, that is one stepin the direction because
traditionally this stuff hasbeen kept secret.
One is it's as if the quoteunquote victim, let's put it,

(01:05:14):
it's not a really a victim, butlet's say the woman in most in
most uh cases or girl is feelingguilty about it and wants to be
quiet about it.
And other people, familymembers, friends, whatever,
yeah, don't talk about that, bequiet about it.
That is one step is just takingthese things out of the closet,
making them not so secret.

(01:05:36):
Doesn't need to be secret,right?
Uh for me, I just have such aloud mouth, you know.
I'm just kind of like, it's nottoo much of a secret.
It'll be coming out.
Uh, you know, it just gets itjust gets pointed out like that.
Um like, hey, get your hands offmy ass, for instance.

(01:05:59):
Right?
Umce we can see it out in theopen, that's when it could be
brought to forgiveness.
Like, oh, it's something I'mmaking up.
First, what is it you're makingup?
And we're making these illusionstogether.

(01:06:22):
Like we're deciding to play therole.
No person really is that thing,they're just deciding to play
the role.
It's like, okay, I'll be yourmolester.
It's like, oh, okay, that'll befun.
You're welcome.

(01:06:43):
Right?
It's all ourselves just playingwith ourselves to see uh how to
see our way back home.
So when you see relationshipslike that and you don't have
anything to get from them atall, there's nothing to get from
them, except you might say thegift, the gift that everyone has
for you.

(01:07:04):
So when we're put into a spacewhere we're relating with
someone, we're orchestrated thatway.
So let's say, like a husband andwife situation, and the wife
asks the husband, Do you loveme?
And if the husband knows, heknows, of course I love you.

(01:07:25):
I love you more and more themore I experience you.
It's amazing.
I just see love expanding andexpanding and expanding.
Are you gonna stay with meforever?
I'm gonna stay with you as longas it serves the Holy Spirit's
purpose.
I don't want to try to stay oneminute longer and I don't want

(01:07:47):
to try to leave one minutesooner.
I just want to stay as long asit serves the Holy Spirit's
purpose.
Because there's nothing for meto get beyond that.
There's nothing in it for me.
It's like you start to see pastthis idea that you uh need a

(01:08:08):
certain number of years to havesuccess in relating, or you need
anything.
Uh, need anything in the world,and that's why you stay.
A lot of people, you know, talkabout how they have kids, so
they need to stay because theyhave kids or something like
that.
You don't even have to let thatthought play into anything, it

(01:08:30):
doesn't mean anything at all.
All of this is orchestrated, sothat alleviates all of the
pressure from you, whether tostay or go in every situation.
I know when I've been led by thespirit through an uncomfortable
feeling, even though there's anuncomfortable feeling, there's
like some uh there's someenthusiasm there and some

(01:08:52):
inspiration to stay through anuncomfortable sensation that's
saying, leave, leave, leave,leave, leave, and just stay
through it.
I open up into something greaterand greater and greater.
So I've seen that a lot in myexperience.
I've had experiences beforewhere uh where the ego is going,

(01:09:14):
no, no, no, no, no.
And the Holy Spirit's going,Yes, this is good for you.
And you're gonna have fun.
That's always it, too.
You're gonna have fun.
There's gonna be challengesbecause things that you are
still clinging to in theunconscious are gonna be made

(01:09:35):
conscious through this relating.
That's what's gonna feelchallenging.
It's really only challenging toan ego, though.
So we're not trying to make ourrelationship so that they give
us everything we everything wewant.
In fact, they're designed to notgive us what we want.
They're designed by design, theyare not giving us what we want.

SPEAKER_04 (01:10:01):
So funny when we come together, we think that
it's gonna give us everything.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:05):
We think it's gonna give us what we want.
That's right.
I mean, and you know, I findthis through, you know,
experimenting.
It's like it never is becausethis world is based on error.
It just cannot.
What it can do for you is leadyou, these relationships, all
situations, everything can leadyou toward what you want if you

(01:10:29):
let that be the purpose of it.
It's gonna lead you toward whatwhat do you want?
What do you want?
What do you want truly?
Uh you know, you know, therecan't be anything else but the
peace of God.
It's one way of saying it.
That's what you want.
You want that peace of God.
That's what you're looking forin form.

(01:10:50):
That's what you're looking forin your relationships, and
that's something that you canactually attain and will attain,
actually.
You're guaranteed to attain itin safety, in complete safety,
completely intact, completely asGod created you, not changed one
bit.

(01:11:11):
You're guaranteed to attain thepeace of God.
Everything that you're drawntoward in the perception,
everyone, every relationship,every interaction is for that
purpose to help you attain thepeace of God.

(01:11:34):
It's the highest illusion in thedream.
It makes you uh it makes youready, let's say, to be plucked
right out of dreaming.
Yeah, it's like the highestillusion, the peace of God in a
dream.

(01:11:59):
Yeah.
Diana, Diana, Diana.
I gotta remember.
Let me see.
The tri Prince Prince song.
Dirty Diana.
Yeah.
Oh, Michael Jackson, thank you.
I I know I get a mix up all thetime, all these different ones.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:21):
Yeah, that'll stick in your head.
It did for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:24):
That was my oh, that was Michael Jackson, that's
right.
That makes it work.
Okay, yeah.
What did you say before that?
I was gonna say you saidsomething.
Well, if you remember, say itagain.

SPEAKER_05 (01:12:44):
I know.
That took me to memories.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:47):
She went into some memories.

SPEAKER_03 (01:12:52):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (01:12:56):
So, like I told my uh my stepdad, who has since
passed away, apparently, um,when he said he was sorry about
the all the things that occurredbetween us, I told him there's
nothing to be sorry aboutbecause it was really a fearful
energy arising between us.

(01:13:17):
That's all it is.
Didn't really happen.
Like it didn't really happen.
The form of it is just uh aninterpretation.
It's like a it's like acaricature play of a fearful
energy play.
So it's like the caricatures aredrawn on a screen, and then
there's this play.
Oh, someone's doing something tothem, someone's making them do
this that they don't want to do,and stuff like that.

(01:13:39):
Um, that's the caricature play,and we're all mighty, mighty,
mighty.
We are all like that.
Doesn't matter what age we seemto be or anything, we're totally
projecting everything that weperceive, even as babies.
Don't let the baby thing foolyou.

(01:14:00):
That is all powerful beingmaking it all up, making
themselves seem young andinnocent and all that stuff, and
then they grow up and then theyseem old and fucking sinister.
They start being a bratty kid,they start doing all this, and
it's all make-believe.

(01:14:22):
There's no variations on ourinnocence.
We're the same innocent, uh,whether just born or 85 years
old, with a with a long rapsheet, maybe, you know.
Uh, maybe you seem to have doneall this stuff.
You're no less innocent than youwere as a newborn child.

(01:14:43):
That doesn't change.
Nothing that you do.
So the idea that you're notthere yet, as in, you know,
you're not awake, you don'tknow, that idea for a lot of

(01:15:04):
people is just an idea thatkeeps them from the full
embrace, from the from the fullsurrender.
You know, we've been told thatwe're completely accomplished
already.
It's just an unwillingness tosee that that's the case.
And that's only in the presentmoment.

(01:15:26):
It's just now.
It's not based on what you didbefore, it's not based on five
minutes ago, it's not based onanything you thought before.
Those thoughts have no realeffects either.
It's only right now acceptingthat you are the one beloved Son
of God, and nothing that andnothing that appears outside of

(01:15:47):
you is really outside of you.
It's all just waiting to beblessed by your love, being
accepted into your mind andintegrated.
Every person has a unique way ofloving, and they all love you.

(01:16:11):
It's one thing that I like toplay with.
Like when I get the perception,someone's like not sure about
me, they're building their idea,and they seem to be trending
toward she's a fucking weirdo.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:29):
She's out there, yeah, she's out there.
I just see them.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:35):
You like that one?
That's the one, that's the oneDiana uses for me.

SPEAKER_05 (01:16:39):
She's out there, but I'm out there too.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:41):
She's out there too, so she's not judging against me.
But I get the perception peopleare judging against me, right?
Like they're judging that, youknow, who knows?
There's just like there's afacial expression that I'll see,
and I'll be like, hmm, thatdoesn't look like you love me.
Hmm.

(01:17:04):
And knowing that that's nottrue.
Everyone loves me.
And I can see everyone, if Iwill it, smiling in loving
appreciation of me.
If I will see that rather thanprotect my interpretations that
this person sees me like this, Ijust see them in my mind's eye

(01:17:27):
as being perfectly loving towardme and grateful with a happy,
grateful smile on their face.
When the thought crosses mymind, you know, it's all an idea
that and and it comes with uhvisual, even in imagination.
There's like this visual, uh, asif this person is like, oh,
you're just such a dumb bitch,or something like that.

(01:17:49):
And I'll just see it differentlyand ask to see it differently,
and we'll be will be seeing itdifferently, even in the
manifest.
I love you too.
Thank you.
That's such a sweet note.
So all the people, even thepeople, you know, there's

(01:18:12):
there's a there's a trend nowonline to be talking about how
you have haters.
And it's kind of like you knowin a way where you're going,
yeah, I'm so awesome.
I even got haters, you know.
I got I'm so I'm so fly.
People, uh, people like like meso much, they want to be me so
much, they hate me, right?
We don't have to hold thatperception.

(01:18:33):
You know, we can change thatover to these are my lovers,
these are the ones that love me,right?
And see actually see thatdifferently, see these
interactions as being loving,knowing that you're totally
unaffected by lack of lovebecause it actually comes from
your own mind.
It's your own projection.
So you're so that makes youunaffected by it.

(01:18:56):
This is totally different fromthe way the ego would want you
to take it.
I've I've seen and heard ways oftaking this, like, oh well, I
guess I'm just mean to myself,so I have to keep on like
they're locked in a perceptionwhere people are mean to them.
I guess I'm just mean to myselfand I can't see how to stop
being mean to myself.
So I guess I just have to put upwith it like it's punishment.

(01:19:18):
It's not punishment, it's ablessing because it's right now.
Are you willing to see themloving?
It's all sight, it's all yourown sight.
So the ego would have you stopat something short of true
recognition of this and be like,well, I guess I'm victimizing
myself and I'm stuck in this.

(01:19:39):
No, it becomes fun even to havea perception of someone who
seems to not be loving towardyou because it's impossible.
It's funny.
So there's nothing to fight, soyou're not in resistance.
See how this is a defenseless,uh, it's a defenseless way of
being, and so there's nothingthere for them to interact with,

(01:20:00):
like, see, I knew that you werea fucking asshole.
Right.
Because you're not defending.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:07):
I remember it was peace is here and love is here,
you know, so it's it's arealization that peace and love
are synonymous.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:17):
Yes, peace and love are here.

SPEAKER_04 (01:20:20):
And seeing that the projector is gonna overlay again
and again.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:29):
Yeah.
But here's what happens though.
See, that she's talking aboutseeing that the projector is
going to overlay again andagain.
It's only gonna overlay againand again as long as you need it
to do that.
So to see through it, you'reactually laughing at the
illusion of it, and then youdon't need it to do that
anymore.

(01:20:49):
This goes for everything,including war and disease and
all of that.
It's like it's only gonna keepon repeating and overlay until
we see it truly.
That's what makes it fun becauseeach instance you're getting to
have more fun by seeing more howyou made it up.
You know, when you when you seethis stuff, it makes you laugh.

(01:21:11):
It really does.
It makes you laugh.
It's like, wow, I am I made it,I made it that good.
That's amazing.
And it makes you laugh becauseyou could see yourself releasing
your brothers and releasingyourself through it instead of
playing out the same thing overand over again.

(01:21:31):
Like, wow, this sucks.
It's like you change it to,isn't this great?
Isn't this so fun?
Like someone will tell me, hopethis person said this thing
about you, and I'll I'll belike, That's so fun, it's just
automatic.
That's so fun.
I love that.

(01:21:53):
Or someone will all will all ofa sudden pop up triggered at me,
you know?
Oh, that's so fun.
Let's play with it, right?
Seeing it's not possible forthem to truly be angry at me,
they're totally grateful for me,they're totally grateful toward

(01:22:13):
me, they're totally lovingtoward me.
So it's like they're justkidding when they're acting like
I did something to trigger themin the first place.
It's like they are just kidding.
So that might not be the uhthing that I find myself saying
to them specifically, you'rejust kidding.
But in my body's energy field,it's a sense that I know they're

(01:22:36):
kidding.
And I know also another thingthat I know about if someone has
a trigger and they're gettingtriggered apparently at me, that
blessings are coming out of it.
I'm sure that blessings arecoming out of it.
It cannot go another way.

(01:22:57):
So then I don't get afraid.
So then I don't have to go intoself-defense.
I can be in the fun of it.
It's kind of like, oh, tell memore.
And also, how can I help?
How can I be helpful?

(01:23:19):
How can I be helpful, the mosthelpful to this person or
situation?
That's really saying, how can Ibe helpful to myself, helping
myself to see more, helpingmyself to be more aware and
alert and in love.
That's all that's really wanted.
It's not there's not anythingelse, even the seeming uh

(01:23:42):
support.
Like let's say this idea aboutthat we have to support
ourselves in the world.
Really, we only really need tosupport the truth by uplifting,
being uplifting to our brothers,being willing to see the truth

(01:24:06):
in them.
That supports us, that sustainsus.
Whether we seem to have a jobabout it or not is not the
thing.
Allowing ourselves to becomericher and richer in in wisdom
and knowing and feeling andseeing through all of the

(01:24:29):
interactions, playing with everyperception of a patterned
dialogue arising.
Notice when a patterned dialoguearises and ask, how can I have
fun with this?
That's what I do.
How can I have fun with this?
How can there be some funbrought into this?

(01:24:51):
Patterned dialogue.
A lot of the times the HolySpirit will have me say
something really off the walljust to break up the monotony.
You know, sometimes it'll getsome looks like, what the heck?
What did you just say?

(01:25:14):
But everything that's said inlove is also received in love.
So when you're recognizing thatit's all only love, what you're
sharing does get received inlove.
It's not even uh a matter ofperception, like they could seem

(01:25:36):
to be taken uh taken back by itor anything, but your awareness
that it's impossible for anyoneto miscreate will let every
expression that you do bereceived in love.
Because you're aware, again,you're aware that it's not
possible for anyone tomiscreate.

(01:25:59):
That means no one is affected byseeming lack of love because
it's only a seeming thing, it'sonly a misperception that there
was any lack of love at all.

(01:26:22):
You know, this thing aboutblaming different objects in the
field for making lack of love.
Like let's say alcohol.
I've heard meat eating, youknow, the same kind of thing
that this anonymous person wroteon here uh about about someone
with alcohol, uh, alcohol issuesor whatever.

(01:26:44):
It could be meat eating.
I've heard people say thateating meat makes people mean.
They got that kind of thinggoing.
Um different drugs, nothing hasany power over your perception
but your thoughts.
So it's taking away all themeaning we've given to these

(01:27:07):
things in the world.
One of them's Wi-Fi.
I know um there's this idea thatpeople are sensitive to Wi-Fi.
You're not sensitive to Wi-Fi,you're sensitive to the idea
that you can be affected bysomething in the world.
So then it seems like thesedifferent things in the world
affect you.

(01:27:27):
That gives you an opportunity.
And you know, whatever you findyourself dealing with, that's
your opportunity.
So it's like this idea I'maffected by Wi-Fi.
Let me let's say I get, I don'tknow what the some of the
symptoms are, maybe like fatigueor something like that.
I get fatigue.
And instead of looking around mymaterial environment to see

(01:27:51):
what's fatiguing me, I recognizeright away I must be thinking
something that doesn't serve me.
What is it?
Let me see.
Let me see it.
See?
Yay! Thank you, Natalie.
It's so fun that you're on here.

(01:28:12):
Yay, I'll talk to you soon.
Oh, speaking of that, Natalie'sin Bellingham, Washington, and
my plan was to proceed toBellingham, Washington around
November 1st from Sedona toBellingham.
And that chant, that plan haschanged.
I'm still gonna go toBellingham, but not until

(01:28:34):
December 1st, because I'm gonnatake a detour to Bullhead City,
Arizona, where there's a sweet,sweet community that is open and
excited about having some HopeJohnson action around there.
So I'm gonna be Bullhead City.

(01:28:56):
Bullhead City.
That's right.
That's right.
Yep.
Yep, yep.
It's right on the border ofLaughlin, Nevada, where there's
casinos.
They're kind of run-down casinosnow.
Um uh, but it's still fun to gohang out over there.
And there's a river, so it'sacross the river.

(01:29:16):
And I've been offered a nicecasita that's got a pool with
two of my Hanai sisters.
Hanay means uh family, likeadopted family.
You know, those are my mom's uhHanai daughters, and they're
like, Oh yeah, you can stay hereas long as you want.
So I'm gonna go check outBullhead City for a little

(01:29:38):
while, be around my family more,too.
That's gonna be fun.
So about a month of that, andthen off to Bellingham,
Washington, December 1st now.
Yeah, yeah, that's what it lookslike.
We'll see.
I'm having a lot of fun whereverI am, that's for sure.

(01:30:04):
I've been attending a lot of acourse in miracles kind of
meetings.
Some straight up a course inmiracles where we read a course
in miracles, and some where wejust get online and have some
conversations.
I guess they're all doing somekind of reading, reading and
conversations.
And I've just been having somuch fun with those.

(01:30:27):
I have not uh attended reallyattended groups for a course in
miracles uh very much.
We did a reading group for alittle bit in Hawaii, but
attending these groups, it justshows me wow, I have an
interesting interpretation.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:47):
She's surprised.
Well, I'm thinking that the thecourse in miracles people are
totally on the same page with mein my interesting
interpretation, you know, likeyou know, it's like it's like
for me, shit, this is freedomright now.

SPEAKER_02 (01:31:05):
And and for most people, what I'm getting is this
is freedom sometime in thefuture.
It's not right now.
Like, first we need to do thisprocess 50,000 times where we
fuck with something thathappened back in our childhood.
And then it gets to a pointwhere wait a minute, it's not
the childhood.

(01:31:25):
That's what Jesus has beensaying.
It's not the childhood, itdidn't originate in time.
It origin it originated beforetime.
Okay, it looked like uh were youraising your hand?
Someone was raising their hand asecond ago.
If you still want to talk totalk to me, go ahead and raise
your hand again.
I love it.
Um, so what what's really uhgood teaching for me around all

(01:31:52):
of that is I'm not theirteacher, right?
I don't have to like make surethey get to the happy dream.
Uh everyone is willing.
Uh well, that's the HolySpirit's function, anyways, to
get them home, right?
That's not for me.
So uh so for me, it's a matterof recognizing that they're

(01:32:14):
already where they're supposedto be.
And it's and it's blessed thatuh that I get to be there and
sharing the way I see thingstoo.
It's not a matter of whetherthey agree with me or anything
like that.
And what I notice is some peopleseem to go, hmm, I wonder if I

(01:32:36):
really can just accept right nowand be in the happy dream.
Or do I need to fit in with agroup that's saying we're almost
there, we're all almost there.
Pretty soon, once circumstanceschange.
Once we see world peace, it'sactually the other way around.

(01:33:00):
We bring it through, and youknow, it's also an idea that I
don't affect world peace.
Of course, you affect worldpeace.
That's world the world is comingout of you.
Right?
The world is coming out of you.
Of course you affect worldpeace.
That's that's that's all you.
So uh so it's like since I don'tperceive world peace, I'm not

(01:33:24):
there yet.
Also, here's a here's a reallyfun one that I see played out
over and over again.
It's like there's this trigger,uh, let's say annoyance, right?
I get annoyed, for instance,that this thing is always left
out of place by my roommate,let's say.
And I I just keep on gettingannoyed, and I keep on getting
relief from being annoyed byrecognizing that I could just

(01:33:47):
forgive my roommate.
I could just forgive myroommate, or I could forgive
myself for getting annoyed orwhatever, and then I'm better.
Well, it's a really simplepivot.
It's a really simple pivot thatactually collapses time.
None of this shit is happening.
There's there's no one here toforgive because none of this

(01:34:07):
shit is happening.
Uh, the thing is not left on thecounter, and I'm not even
capable of reacting like that.
This is a projection, it's adream, none of this is even
happening.
It makes no sense, isn't itfunny?
And then that collapses time.
And you know, to me, it's reallyclear.

(01:34:28):
Like the interpretation that Iget is really clear to me that
um it's a I guess it's a it'slike it's not a truer
interpretation, it's it's theadvancement of it.
So it's like it starts out asone thing where you're an ego
forgiving people and gettingrelief.
That's great.
That's great.

(01:34:48):
And Jesus is talking about thatin chapter two, about the
miracle, uh, the kind of miraclethat keeps on looping around,
and the kind that collapsestime, that collapses time.
So to collapse the time is amatter of seeing that the whole
cause itself, it's not, itdoesn't, it does not exist.

(01:35:09):
You only projected it.
You you only projected as lookat all the projections.
Let's take this size at thisexample of someone's leaving
some object on the counter.
Let's say they're leaving theirsmelly socks on the counter,
okay?
They're leaving smelly socks onthe counter every day.
And you're like, you've askedthem to please just put their
socks in the hamper a milliontimes, but they won't do it.

(01:35:31):
And you keep on getting annoyedby it.
So you can keep on circlingaround with this forgiveness,
going back to your childhood,working it out, and you keep on
getting annoyed again and againand again, or you can actually
uh observe that none of thisshit is actually happening.

(01:35:53):
I'm imagining it.
All that I'm propping up rightnow to make it seem like I can
feel annoyed is that separationis true.
I'm doing that right now.
And as I'm propping up thatseparation is true, you know
what I'm doing?
I'm making myself feel annoyed.
So, so the socks on the counterand the feeling of annoyance and

(01:36:17):
annoyance all the way across theboard is completely eliminated.
I can say that for myself.
I have gone quite a long time.
I don't know in the amount oftime specifically, without
getting annoyed.
I can still perceive a thingthat seems to be out of place,
but it doesn't equal annoyancebecause it just been purified

(01:36:40):
from my mind.
It's just like that doesn't meananything.
Overwhelm doesn't mean anythingbecause I've seen through the
idea that I have anything to dohere.
I have nothing to do here, Ihave no duties here.

unknown (01:36:54):
Right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:36:55):
So I've seen through that idea.
The annoyance is uh it has anunderlying thought that's saying
that there's a reason to beannoyed.
Ultimately, it's the thought ofseparation.
It's as if any of this shit isactually happening, and it's not
just the game that I'mprojecting right now.
Okay.
Thank you, Christina.

(01:37:16):
I love your take andinterpretation of the acid.
I know what you mean, ACIM.
It makes you make me laugh.
ACIM not acid, yes.
But that may be interesting.
Yes, it may.

(01:37:37):
I mean, isn't it all the same?
It all just comes right out ofmy mind.
You know, it's like, you know,I've I've expressed the people
before, uh, especially when itseems like they're trying to um
convince me that I'm justparroting a book.
They're saying, you sound likeACIM, and I'll go, I am ACIM.

(01:37:57):
I wrote that fucker.

SPEAKER_01 (01:38:02):
And Thomas asked me today, he's like, that means you
wrote the Bible.
I wrote everything.
How could it be another way?
It's coming out of my mind.

SPEAKER_02 (01:38:12):
Right?
I I found ACIM in 2014.
I was like, wow, this is theshit.
This is really saying it.
And then I continued practicingit.
It became my main practice.
And then down the road, Istarted to teach it quite a bit
down the road because I didn'tknow like how long I was going
to be with this spiritualpractice.

(01:38:33):
I didn't immediately starttalking, like, oh yeah, I'm
doing this spiritual practice,A-C-I-M.
I already had a uh a wisdom talkgoing, you know.
I may have mentioned it a coupletimes, but it was a while before
I started teaching it because itreally showed itself.
It's like, wow, this is reallysomething.
This shit works.
Like if you like if you actuallyapply it, and and the way I the

(01:39:00):
way I did it, I would take eachlesson and I would try my best
to apply it to every upset I gotduring the day.
And when I started ACIM, I wasfucking triggered so much.
It was like all day long.
And this is with knowing a lotof spiritual knowledge.
I have was already really wellstudied.

(01:39:21):
I could read and absorb thingslike no one's business.
And I had already been on it forprobably a good 10 years.
So I was knowing all thisspiritual knowledge, but I was
triggered all the time.
It seemed to be driving me nutsbecause I was like, shit, I know
this shit.
And then I just go around and doit.
I would write somethingspiritual on Facebook and then I

(01:39:44):
would turn around and do thatexact same thing.
I'm like, I'd be like, what theheck?
How do I not see these thingscoming?
And through the practice of acourse in miracles, I just got
more and more aware of what I'mdoing.
Also, I practice the course inmiracles intently over many
years.
I didn't um switch aroundbecause I just go, this is it.

(01:40:07):
I know it.
I could feel it.
I just need to see what it'ssaying to me here and really
live it.
And then also I started tellingpeople about block therapy
really early on because this iscompression therapy.
I don't care what form ofcompression therapy it is.
I don't make any money off ofblock therapy.
Um, it's like I start doing thisblock therapy though, and I

(01:40:31):
start experiencing viscerallyrelease of fear, like release of
fear in a visceral sense.
So then that really seemed tohelp me to see things um kind of
like more in slow motion, likedetached, not like boom, it's
hitting your energy field,right?
That's what it's like becauseit's a nervous system hit.

(01:40:53):
And we get used to andhabituated toward these nervous
system hits.
So it's like it hits our energyfield, kind of like coming from
outside.
It hits it and then makes usreact, right?
This is the experience that weget.
Well, I don't get thisexperience anymore where I get
hit and have to react from itbecause I I'm used to it.
I'm sensitive to uh an energetichit like that.

(01:41:16):
And I know what it means frompracticing with it over and over
again.
I'm like, oh, this is a goodthing for one.
This is a really good thing.
There's gonna be some blessingscoming out of this, right?
And with block therapy, it showsyou the people in the room right
now are doing block therapy infront of me.
That's I I I recommend doingblock therapy while you're

(01:41:38):
listening to wisdom dialogues orACIM deep dive, because then
you're in that zone where when Isay something that triggers you,
you can just relax a little bitmore.
But it helps you get somedistance from that smack.
It's because it's kind of like asmack or a sting or a heat rush.

(01:41:59):
When you're watching stuff likethat as something that's
beneficial for you, you see ah,thank you, and you go into
gratitude.
See, yes, I'm so blessed to beback with you too.
I love you, Robert.
Thank you.
Yeah, it's fun.
Some some of my friends willstop listening for years and

(01:42:21):
then come back again.
And it's like the door's alwaysopen, you know.
You just like uh, you just likeuh maybe shift around to
different different teachingsfrom different people, and it's
not like anything's wrong in anyof that, it's just whatever
teaching resonates for you themost, and even the medium uh
resonates for you the most atthe time, you know, and

(01:42:43):
sometimes it could be the sameone, like for me, a course in
miracles.
It's been the same one, and nowI'm doing deep dives into it,
and I do that on Wednesday, sametime, 3 p.m.
uh Pacific time, 3 to 5.
I'll be deep diving thisWednesday.
We're still in chapter two.
There's 30 some chapters, and Iuh don't get through them very

(01:43:05):
fast.
So I'll be doing this for awhile, and I'm really excited
about it because each time I doone of these deep dives, I just
get enlightened.
I'm I mean, it's like it's likewow, right?
It's like wow.
Uh it's like I could see the wayI've been uh working with the
energies, and then a Course inMiracles will put it into terms

(01:43:28):
that that show me, oh mygoodness, that's a way to put it
that you can really see.
I'll give you a for instancefrom last week.
This one has really beenswimming around in my mind a
lot.
I've loved it.
Um so Jesus was talking aboutFreud again, which has been in a
lot of our recent ones, and hewas talking about how Freud

(01:43:52):
identified the id and thesuperego.
The id is the one with theimpulses, which Freud called
libido.
He tied it mostly withsexuality, okay, like sexuality
and instincts, I think.
And then there's the superego.
This is in Freud's model still.
The superego makes sure that theid doesn't get out of line with

(01:44:17):
all of its desires and impulses,okay?
So there's constantly thisthing, kind of like this little
battle where this id is tryingto get its way and get
everything that it wants, all ofits desires, and the superego is
going, no, you can't have that,you can't do that, that's bad.
You should control yourself anddifferent things like that.

(01:44:39):
So, what Jesus is saying aboutthat, what he's pointing out, is
the that the id is reallymiracle impulse.
There's no other kind of psychicenergy, is what Jesus was
talking about, but a miracleimpulse.
That's all it could possibly be.
And what Freud is calling thesuper ego is really just the

(01:45:01):
ego, and it's not necessary atall.
So, see how the id with themiracle impulse is just released
to be itself, and that's thefreedom that I experience in my
mind around all kinds ofdifferent things that pop up in
the world.
One of them's food.
And, you know, early on I saw, Iwas like, why do we have to be

(01:45:22):
so controlled about our food?
Why do we have to be sodemeaning and demanding on
ourselves that we eat a bunch ofshit we don't like?
We even get ourselves to believewe like stuff that we actually
don't like to try to make ushealthy.
You know, it's like I've heardfrom people many times, well, I
like I like eating uh all theseleafy greens.

(01:45:44):
I'm like, really?
Why do you like them?
They're good for me.
Really?
Wouldn't you rather havesomething like this?
Well, yeah, but I want to eatwhat good's good for me.
And you get down down to it andyou're like, fuck, a lot of the
times people are not enjoying ina juicy, sensuous way what
they're eating.
And it's this relationshipbetween the miracle impulse

(01:46:07):
aspect of the mind, which is allpsychic energy, and the superego
or the ego trying to controlthat energy when you just
notice, oh, there's no need forthe ego at all.
Then you're just this miracleimpulse is guided by spirit, and
it's always joyous.
It's always the outcome isalways joyous.

(01:46:29):
It's only believing that you'renot worthy of the of your joy,
you're not worthy of happiness,that you need this ego to tell
you what to do with thatimpulse.
So I started applying it tosexual energy, right?
It's like, oh, this pervy energythat is not anything but a

(01:46:50):
miracle impulse.
It's just a misperception thatit's something else, but
actually it's a miracle impulse.
And the ego is saying heshouldn't get what he wants.
Right?
The ego is saying something likethat.
That's that's like that's thethat's right, he shouldn't get
what he wants.
All that's doing is trainingyour own mind to say you

(01:47:10):
shouldn't get what you want.
It comes in this form to make itseem convincing.
Everyone should get what theywant.
Everyone wants what everyonewants is the peace of God.
This is a miracle impulse, it'snothing else.
It seems to be directed towardssomething else.
And yes, it's being misdirected,but that doesn't mean that it's

(01:47:32):
inherently bad or needs to becontrolled by the ego.
That does not mean that the egoshould control it.
Let the Holy Spirit have it.
Look at it not as a threat, buta blessing.
An opportunity to extend love.

(01:47:52):
And that doesn't mean you'redeciding, even uh, let's say,
whether you're gonna give in tothe impulse.
You're not the one deciding.
You're like, whatever is perfectfor the Holy Spirit's function.
That's what this body is for.
It's for whatever is perfect forthe Holy Spirit's function.
I have no use for it.
It never got me what I wanted,anyways.

(01:48:14):
I have no use for it.
I give it over to the HolySpirit because I know that's
where peace and happiness is,and I know that I'm not gonna be
harmed in any way.
Another friend was sharing withme, and she specifically asked

(01:48:37):
me to talk about it on WisdomDialogues.
I think it's because she likesto go back and listen to it
again and go, oh yeah.
Anyways, I love to do it, it'sreally cool.
So a friend of mine got theperception that she was um in a
relationship with someone whowas so immature that he got her

(01:49:00):
pregnant and then he didn't evencare.
He didn't even care how she wasfeeling.
He didn't care to help her outwith the abortion, give her a
ride, anything like that.
And he was just being hisimmature self, and it made her,
according to her, so mad atherself for being with this guy,

(01:49:24):
feeling like she's in love withhim and being with him.
So the reason why you even getthe perception that you're in
love with him in the first placeis because the Holy Spirit has a
function to play through thisdynamic.
And and all that's going on isyou're coming back to love.

(01:49:46):
So you're perceiving truly.
One, yes, you projected thewhole scenario.
This is not so you can get angrywith yourself for making an
outcome you didn't want.
This is to see that you don'treally want to keep propping up
this world.
You know, I came to therealization with regard to

(01:50:07):
having kids, I thought for sure,after I had the third kid, I am
never fucking doing that again.
You know what?
It seems like I don't even wantthe ones I have, right?
Like this is a pain in the ass.
Like, I would like to get out ofthis right now.
I'm definitely not trying tohave more so I can prolong this
torture, right?
So what I came to later onthough was shit, I don't even

(01:50:31):
care.
It gets pregnant, it does this,it does that, whatever it is,
it's useful for the HolySpirit's function.
So I don't even mind.
I get an abortion.
Uh, like wherever I find myself,that's where I'm extending
miracles.
That's the those are theinteractions that I'm meant to

(01:50:53):
have.
That's how I look at it.

unknown (01:50:55):
Right?

SPEAKER_02 (01:50:55):
If it seems like I need to go to the doctor, the
dentist, I got feelingsrecently, and I was like, oh,
this is awesome.
I get to extend love in thisparticular circumstance, in this
particular interaction, thisscenario, this is what the Holy
Spirit is appointing me to doand where to be and who to

(01:51:18):
communicate love with.
So I'm never like on break fromthis.
I'm not never like, oh, thisdoesn't matter.
I'm just going to the dentist.
Right?
Or, oh, this doesn't matter.
I'm just going for an abortion.
Let me just get through thisabortion and then I'll go back
to being the light of the world.

(01:51:40):
So we're coming to see, andespecially when we get the
perception of one of ourbrothers is not living up to
what we think they should be forus, is we get to see that our
brothers cannot miscreate.
That is huge.
Because that's what we're usingto project and distract us from
the idea that we can miscreate.

(01:52:04):
We can't really miscreate.
But we use these brothers whoseem like they really have
miscreated, like they messed usup, for instance.
Like, gosh, I would have beenjust really way better if that
person just never walked into mylife.
Right?
But really, they're forsomething else.

(01:52:26):
They're for opening us up to thefact that we cannot miscreate.
So my friend was having a hardtime seeing forgiveness through
this.
But then once she saw it, she'slike, Oh, I get it.
This is this is our holyinstant.

(01:52:48):
This is our holy instanttogether, where this all of this
comes to a head, and I see himtruly.
I see that he's a hundredpercent helpful in any kind of
behavior that's on the field.
I see that I made him up to beas if he's not being helpful.
I see as I see that I made it upto make him special.

(01:53:10):
Like I'm in love with him as abody, as a separate body.
The only love is the love ofGod.
There's no other love.
And the love of God isuniversal.
So that's a universal, thatmeans universally extending love
through every interaction.
This falling in love that makesit like they're supposed to

(01:53:32):
perform a certain way, that'sreally like a murderous thought.
And you know, all attackthoughts are attacking us
physically.
So it would make a physicalmanifestation.
Let's say you're pregnant in apregnancy you don't want, you
apparently don't want.

(01:54:05):
This is where I declare that thetruth is true.
And I let that be the resonancethat comes through me and out
into the apparent world todemonstrate to myself and to
everyone else that only love ispossible because only love is
true.

(01:54:25):
Can you imagine being the onegoing into the abortion clinic
laughing?
That's that's how demonstrate toyour own mind this stuff is not
meaningful.
Nothing is meaningful in theworld.
The only thing meaningful is thelove that you are and the love
that you can extend through trueforgiveness.

(01:54:47):
What I thought happened didn'thappen.
Not I forgive myself for makingit up.
That's okay too.
It'll give you some relief, butyou're after more than relief,
you're after collapsing time.
So hooray, everyone.
Thank you for joining.
I love you.
Yes.
So um, yes, go back tohopejohnson.org.

(01:55:11):
Go over to hopejohnson.org ifyou would like to join anything.
Wherever you're listening tothis right now, I'll let you
know.
I have Zooms.
You can join my Zooms.
You can you can watch onSubstack.
Also, they're recorded onSubstack, so you can go to
Substack.
Um, you can also, and this allthis stuff is accessible through

(01:55:32):
my website, hopejohnson.org.
Okay.
You can get my book there,Unschooling for Parents.
You can get one-to-ones uh onthere.
You can donate to me.
You could set up monthlydonations to me.
By the way, thank you to some ofmy friends who have done that.
That is so sweet.
Um, you know, they could, Ithink they can be as low as 10
bucks a month.
And anything is helpful.

(01:55:53):
I have gone uh completelyjobless.
So anything you can uh you canassist with there is awesome.
And um what else?
Oh, I do live in too.
Um I'm doing my first really,it's pretty official with Thomas
because he is such a willingparticipant.
This is uh it just kind of likeevolved into this.

(01:56:15):
I go, you know, I do this as aservice where I live with people
and actually be with them andhelp them see through their
illusions and get more freedomand everything like that.
And he's like, I'm completelyin.
And he is, and I'm seeing toowhat it requires.
It's like there's this uhwillingness to surrender to
whatever it is that I'm bringingout, I'm bringing to the table,

(01:56:37):
and a real sweetness.
And and also he's verysupportive, very generous, makes
this space for me twice a week.
Uh, he he buys food, he takes meout to nice places, and um, we
have a really fun time going toa lot of, of course, in miracles
meetings.
We're going um camping.

(01:56:59):
We also study a lot together.
We read every morning likeclockwork.
We're just both so enthusiasticabout it, you know.
Um, and and it's funny becauseeven this morning he goes, Are
you planning on reading with methis morning?
I'm like, Of course I am.
Totally.
Well, but we don't just read, wego deep.

(01:57:19):
We have little deep dives everymorning.
We've been going back and forthbetween a course in miracles and
a course in love.
And he also helps me with my umdaily lesson every night.
He's on the recordings on thedaily lesson.
And yeah, we're having a greattime.
I'm seeing him transform rightbefore my eyes, physically,

(01:57:43):
even, you know, in the physicalsense, just uh more youthful,
even the posture is different.
Um, I'm helping him out withfood because his food situation
was hilarious.
He was basically just eating abunch of chemicals.
I'm like, you could have a waybetter time than this.
Like, it's actually it'sactually pretty indulgence.

(01:58:05):
He's indulgent to the ego, butreally, you know, it feels real
nourishing and juicy, good andeven erotic when you have this
really nice food that you'retotally enjoying, and even just
enjoying yourself in the moment,sharing with him how to how to
be, you know, really uh uh uhjuicy and orgasmic within
everything that we seem to bedoing, like it because that's

(01:58:28):
how it is.
I mean, even just sitting hereand enjoying your breath and
enjoying the fluctuations ofyour body's energy field and
just being really juicy witheverything you seem to be doing
and getting out of that mindsetthat says life is some kind of
sacrifice that you have to dosome kind of sacrificing and and

(01:58:48):
and make it be like boring anddry and brittle, you know.
Go through.
Um, and seeing and his opennessand his willingness to see so
clearly that there is onlyinnocence and there's nothing
that can take that away.
And to see through parent, seethrough these different patterns

(01:59:10):
that say something is wrong,that say, I'm bad, I'm wrong,
even patterns that say, I wishthat this person would see me
like this.
It's like, man, you rec when yourecognize that's a pattern,
you're not one bit dependent onhow anyone perceives you.
It's like all power back to yourmind.
Now, you know, you resign as astheir teacher, you resign as

(01:59:32):
your own teacher, you just letthe Holy Spirit take care of it
all, and you just have a goodass time all through life, and
that becomes your demonstration.
Even all the people around you,they're affected by this.
They're affected by yourwillingness to see only
innocence in them, in you, inevery single circumstance, see
only love and wholeness.

(01:59:53):
And you're just going throughlife laughing like a child
because you know everything'staken care of and orchestrated
for.
So we're both enjoying thetransformation here.
And that's something you cansign up for on my website.
You can have me for one day oras long as you want.
Well, you know, we'll see.
Holy Spirit willing.

(02:00:18):
You know, I don't know.
So you can check it out over onhopejohnson.org.
Also, I have a blog over there.
I'm blogging these.
Actually, AI is doing it for me.
AI is actually taking this wholetalk and giving a summary on it
about it that's really good.
It's actually giving you areally good quick thing that you

(02:00:38):
can read.
You probably read about thewhole show, all the points that
I'm pointing out in about 10minutes.
If you go to my blog on mywebsite, uh, because AI just
takes everything that'simportant.
I give it a lot of filler.
You know, there's all kinds oflaughing and cussing and stuff.
AI just all out.
Uh really good blog posts.

(02:00:59):
I'm just having them posted tomy blog now.
So that's another thing you canfind there.
All kinds of cool shit overthere.
Hopejonson.org.
All right.
I love you.
Thank you.
Have a beautiful uh couple daysif you're joining me again on
Wednesday.
Otherwise, until next time, yay.
Mahalo.
Aloha and a hoo-e-ho.

SPEAKER_03 (02:01:20):
Yay, thank you, everyone.

All Episodes

You’re Not Asleep—You’re Just Pretending | Wisdom Dialogues @ Sedona | September 29, 2025

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Are You A Charlotte?

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}You’re Not Asleep—You’re Just Pretending | Wisdom Dialogues @ Sedona | September 29, 2025