April 15, 2025 • 31 mins
Reverend Martha Cherry's life reads like a journey through America's most pivotal moments of the last century. From witnessing the bombing of Birmingham's 16th Street Baptist Church where her friend Carol Robertson died, to studying under Dr. King's sister at Spelman College when he received the Nobel Peace Prize, Cherry's path has intersected with history at remarkable turns.
"I drew from my faith that we were going to have a brighter future," Cherry reflects, describing how hope sustained her through childhood fear amid bombings and civil unrest. That same hope would later carry her through unimaginable personal tragedy when both her pregnant granddaughter and grandson were murdered in separate incidents.
Rather than allowing grief to define her, Cherry transformed her pain into purpose. "My healing took place by talking about it," she explains. Now working in Hattiesburg Public Schools, she connects with children facing poverty and trauma. "These children need somebody to listen to what they have to say," Cherry emphasizes, recognizing that in a state where one in four children lives in poverty, simply being present can change trajectories.
Cherry's forthcoming book, "Tear Down These Walls," challenges faith communities to move beyond comfort zones and address real-world problems. "We need to leave our gated communities and magnificent church buildings to go where the problems are," she urges, calling Christians to year-round engagement rather than seasonal charity.
Through her remarkable journey from office administrator to police chaplain to educator and minister, Cherry demonstrates how seemingly disconnected experiences form a divine pattern. "God takes all of these experiences we have in life and they just come together like pieces of a puzzle," she shares. Her story reminds us that despite our differences, "We all hurt the same" – and in recognizing our common humanity, we find the strength to build hope together.
Be the change you want to see in the world. Get involved with your local community – you'll make a difference while receiving tremendous hope and joy in being God's hands and feet.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
When you need some hope and inspiration to build
collaboration.
Hope Mississippi is yoursalvation.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
One in four kids live in poverty.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
One in five are food deprived.
Build collaborations and buildhope with those who are
struggling.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Build collaborations and build hope with those who
are struggling.
Hope Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Hope
Mississippi.
I'm Dawn Beam and I am so happyto welcome Reverend Martha
Cherry today.
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Reverend, thank you so very much.
It is an honor to be here withyou today.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
We were talking a few minutes ago and I had
previously met you at ourMethodist church here in
Summerall.
But you and I becamereacquainted recently at Wendy's
.
We were just sitting thereeating and started sharing our
faith and things, and it's sogood to get reacquainted with
you.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, it is.
I consider that as being divineintervention.
I was so happy to see you againand it was a pleasure for me to
share some of my experienceswith you growing up in
Birmingham.
I had just completed apresentation on Black history,
so I shared that with you.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
You know, I think that's how God works he directs
our path and I certainly praythat he directs my path, and I
think he put us there togetherthat day in February so that we
could encourage one another andshare our faith as well as our
journey.
Where did you start out?
Where did you grow up?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I was born in Corinth , mississippi, but I left there
when I turned seven years old.
I went to Birmingham, alabama.
So I really grew up inBirmingham.
I was in Birmingham during thetimes of the demonstrations, the
boycotts.
The presence of Dr King waseverywhere.
(02:20):
I remember so vividly when thebombing of the 16th Street
Baptist Church occurred.
One of the girls was my friend,carol Robertson.
We had talked that Friday andshe died that Sunday.
Addie Collins and I attendedthe same high school as well.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I am so sorry.
You know there's a saying thatif you don't learn from history,
you are likely to repeat that.
So today we just want ouraudience to know your story,
Certainly growing up, and so youwere in Birmingham during that
(03:05):
difficult time.
Tell me your thoughts as ayoung girl and how you have seen
hope along the journey, as ayoung girl, I had fear.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I was frightened a lot just wondering what was
going to happen next, becausethere were bombings all around
me.
Other than the bombing at thechurch, there were homes that
were bombed as well, so it was atime when we really felt
uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
How did you draw from your faith during those times?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I drew from my faith that we were going to have a
brighter future.
Reverend Jesse Jackson used toalways say keep hope alive.
And that was what we had to dowas to keep our hope alive.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
The church can be such a comforting place, a place
of refuge and hope.
I'm reminded of a tornado thatwent through Hattiesburg one
time and my husband and I wentthat Sunday it happened on a
Saturday and provided food forthat church in the Palmas
Crossing area and the joy, theworship that they had in the
(04:23):
midst of a storm, in the midstof turmoil, where people had
passed, was amazing.
But that's our faith, that isour God, who is way more
powerful than we can everimagine.
So you came up in Birminghamand graduated from high school
(04:46):
in Birmingham?
Yes, I did and tell me aboutfrom.
There.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
After graduating from high school, I went to Atlanta,
georgia, to Spelman College,and at the time when I was in a
class taught by Mrs ChristineKing Ferris, dr King's sister,
she shared with us that Dr Kinghad just received the Nobel
(05:14):
Peace Prize.
So that was history in themaking and we were so very
excited about that.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
That must have been amazing to have a first row seat
to history being made.
Certainly there were strugglesalong the way, but things like
that are victories and have leftsuch a lasting impact on our
country.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yes, most definitely, and that was just the beginning
for me to really see a lot ofhistorical things happen,
because I started working forthe city of Atlanta and I
actually worked with MayorMaynard Jackson and he was
instrumental in getting theairport to Atlanta.
(06:02):
Then the next mayor was MayorYoung and he was instrumental in
getting the Olympics to come toAtlanta.
The next mayor was ShirleyFranklin.
She had the distinction ofbeing the first female mayor of
Atlanta and definitely the firstblack mayor, female mayor of
(06:27):
Atlanta.
So I worked with all of thesepeople and it was such a
pleasure to just see history inthe making.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
You know that's an important thing to remember is
we have folks that are named,that we remember because they
held political positions, butthere every day, are lots of
folks that are helping makegovernment work.
And so you worked for the cityof Atlanta.
What did you do there?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I worked in management.
I worked in the accountspayable division.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Okay, well, that's interesting.
Now you didn't stay in accountspayable division.
Okay, well, that's interesting.
Now you didn't stay in accountspayable.
Move me on along your journey,because I know that God has
directed your path through manytwists and turns.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yes, I did an internship and I left Atlanta.
So I moved around a lot.
I was in South Carolina for awhile, I was in Florida for a
while and some people would askme Martha, what are you going to
(07:36):
do in life?
You're getting these degrees,different areas.
Just what are you going to do?
I realized how God takes all ofthese experiences that we have
in life and they just cometogether like pieces of a puzzle
.
Later on you can see just howwell they fit together and what
(08:00):
plans God had for you.
So my first degree from GeorgiaState was in office
administration.
Then I went to the Master ofArts in Christian Education
degree, then from that one tothe Master of Divinity degree.
So I really used everythingthat I learned in my walk for
(08:25):
Christ.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
That's important.
You need to be equipped inorder to do what God has planned
for you, and each of us has adifferent mission, a different
journey, but we're all.
Our purpose should be to beGod's hands and feet and leave
for us Mississippi or ourcountry better than we found it.
(08:49):
So, with all of these degrees,keep welcoming me forward about
how God has used you.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
With these degrees.
I worked at the HattiesburgPolice Department and I was
there for over 10 years and Iactually worked as a chaplain
five of those years.
So that was a very interestingexperience because I had an
(09:17):
opportunity to really talk withthe officers, to be present.
When someone had a baby or ifsomebody had death in the family
, I was there.
Maybe if they were going topull over the plug, I was there
for that.
So God used me in so manydifferent ways as a chaplain.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That is absolutely wonderful.
You know, we take for grantedthe needs of our law enforcement
.
We just think they just show upand that they're supposed to
take care of us.
But it's important that wenurture them because they have
needs too, Certainly in the lineof duty, the things that they
experience.
They talk about secondhandtrauma, and in law enforcement
(10:04):
there is a lot of secondhandtrauma where you go into
households and see things thatwe're just not prepared to see.
That is so very true.
So you did that for 10 years,five years, five or 10 years.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I worked for the police department for a little
over ten years but, I, worked asa chaplain about five years.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Where did you see hope in that job?
Let's talk about hope and howyou saw hope in the work that
you were doing.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I saw hope because I saw experiences where people
came into the building and theywere very upset.
They felt like the world wastotally against them.
But they calmed down and theyrealized we weren't the enemies,
(10:56):
we were the friends.
We were the people who weretrying to help them.
We were the friends.
We were the people who weretrying to help them and we had
to just explain to them a lot ofthe procedures and the rules
and regulations.
They did not understand that.
So when they got a goodunderstanding of what was going
on, they calmed down in manyinstances.
So they had hope that thingswould work out for them.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
You know, I'm reminded of the Bible verse God
comforts us so that we can yetbe comforters, and he has
certainly been with you throughyour life and the struggles that
you have had.
When we were talking about yourlife and you talked about being
a chaplain, you've experiencedyour own heartache in seeing
(11:45):
family members being victims ofcrime.
Can you tell just a little bitabout that, because folks need
to understand the ripple effectthat crime has and also the hope
that we have in Christ thateven when difficulty comes, we
can always, always call on him.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
The first incident was the loss of my granddaughter
.
She was murdered and she waspregnant at the time, so that
was a double homicide.
And then the gun was turned onher daughter and she was shot
seven times.
Then the gunman turned the gunon a neighbor and shot her two
(12:31):
times.
The only one who died was mygranddaughter and the baby that
she was carrying.
I'm so sorry, thank you.
That was a difficult time.
Death is something that we haveto deal with, but it seems more
difficult when it's murderrather than just a death regular
(12:56):
death, you don't get thatopportunity to say goodbye and
to walk that path, and that'sfrustrating, isn't it?
It is very much so.
After that, my grandson wasmurdered in Atlanta, georgia.
It was home invasion, so thatwas another, and it happened not
(13:18):
that long after the other deathhad occurred.
So it was a rough time.
It really was, but I found thatmy healing took place by
talking about it.
Not just being closed in, butjust talking, but just talking.
(13:44):
And by talking to people I wasable to be an inspiration to
some people, because they said,oh, you have such strength and I
never thought of things thatway and I'm comforted by what
you're saying.
I always think how, whateverwe're experiencing, it could be
worse than whatever it is.
Whereas I lost twograndchildren at that time, it
(14:04):
could have been all of thegrandchildren.
They could have been in anautomobile accident and no one
could have been left.
There's just so many ways tothink about it and we have to
move on.
I am trying to make my life be agood example for my
grandchildren who are alive now,but the tribute to the children
(14:30):
who have died have been numberone.
I'm dedicating my book to thosedeaths of those children and I
want to do volunteer work.
This will be something that Ican do to help others.
There might be some mothers andgrandmothers out there who are
(14:55):
really struggling and they needto get the strength from me on
how to handle things like this.
I work in the school system, sowhen I'm working with the
children, I think perhaps Imight be able to reach this
child.
Nobody else might be able toreach that child, but I might
(15:17):
reach that child.
This will be a tribute to mygrandchildren who have died and
preceded me in death.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
That is just a wonderful statement.
They say that every child needssomebody to love them and
believe in them, and there's notelling how many kids that you
touch just like that.
And we can't understand whyevil happens.
Ever since sin came in theworld, evil has been here, but
(15:49):
good still prevails and webelieve that through our faith
that God forgives sin, he is aloving and forgiving God and
that he uses us, in theheartaches that we've gone
through, to help other folks.
And you know, my hope would bethat, as you work with kids in
(16:09):
the school, that they see thatthere's alternatives to a
lifestyle of crime.
You know, if I'm not mistaken,you work in the Hattiesburg
schools.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yes, I do.
Hattiesburg Public SchoolDistrict.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Boy.
It's been exciting to see howHattiesburg schools have really
taken off too.
Yes, if you haven't kept upwith the schools in Mississippi.
All around our kids areincreasing their reading
abilities and Hattiesburg is noexception, and part of this
podcast talks aboutcollaborations.
(16:46):
When we all work togethertoward the common good, great
things happen, and certainlyHattiesburg Public Schools is an
example, with churches adoptingschools, with churches adopting
schools, with people withskills whether it be yours that
goes in there, and you don'tjust teach, do you?
(17:10):
You certainly want to teachthem to read and write, but
beyond that, what otheropportunities do you have to
encourage kids to make wisechoices, to overcome trauma and
to set goals?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Being in the Hattiesburg Public Schools
District, it gives me anopportunity to listen to the
children.
Listening is very important.
These children need to havesomebody to listen to what they
have to say.
Sometimes they don't have otherpeople who listen to them.
(17:40):
Then there are times when theyneed somebody to talk to them.
So, just sharing experienceswith them Because of my age, I'm
able to share with them a lotof information about how things
used to be and they look at meand they say well, ms Cherry, I
(18:03):
can't believe that.
I just don't think it was thatway.
These children have never seenblack and white photos, things
that we take for granted andit's just a joy to me to see
their excitement when I talk tothem about how life used to be,
things that we used to do, andhow they can make their lives
(18:26):
much better.
Talk to them about theimportance of education.
They need to pursue highergoals and I'm so happy that
through the Hattiesburg PublicSchool System, especially at the
high school, there are programsthat prepare students to
receive dual degrees and thisway they're able to get out of
(18:49):
school and make money and then,if they want to go on and
further their education, theycan do that, but some of them
need to have jobs, and so that'sa good stepping stone for that.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Absolutely.
In Mississippi, I think we getso used to being the poorest
state that we don't really wrapour minds around the data that
one in four of our kids lives inpoverty.
One in five are food deprived,and we know that with poverty,
oftentimes those children aresurrounded by single parents.
(19:25):
Lots of crime, just a varietyof dysfunction, and so they say
that children talking aboutthemselves and things.
That's a one way to unpack allof that trauma.
And I know that God uses youevery day to encourage these
young people.
And that's one way to unpackall of that trauma.
And I know that God uses youevery day to encourage these
young people.
And that's exciting.
Yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I get excited when, for example, at the grocery
store and I hear Miss Cherry.
Hey, miss Cherry.
And then the child comes overand gives me a big hug.
It's so rewarding to know thatyou have made a friend, you've
touched a child, you've made adifference in their lives.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
That is wonderful.
You wear so many hats.
You've been the chaplain.
You are working in the schoolsand making a difference there.
You also have a master's indivinity, so you have studied
the Bible.
Now do you preach.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I was a temporary pastor at two churches here in
Mississippi and I also worked asa director of Christian
education at a church in Florida.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Okay, and so part of your education that, masters of
Divinity, you really knocked theglass ceiling out as far as
you're excelling in that area,is that right?
I just looked at some of thenewspaper articles about you.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yes, yes, that was very interesting and, as I said,
what I learned getting mybachelor's degree in office
administration helped me when Iwent to do my internship for my
Master of Divinity degree,because I learned the importance
of being able to talk to people.
(21:19):
So when you're a supervisor orany other leadership position,
you need to be able to listen topeople and talk to them in a
way that they will reallyunderstand, and you have to be
tactful and not talk down tothem.
So I applied this same methodwhen I went into the churches.
(21:42):
I did a lot of evangelism and Iwanted to know why members of
the church had stopped attendingand I went out and I visited
with them and I discovered thatthey said well, nobody said
anything to me and I felt likethey didn't want me at the
(22:03):
church.
So we had people who returnedto church and that was a good
thing.
People need to feel neededAbsolutely A simple card to say
I'm thinking about you, and Imade certain that at the church,
we gave cards to people whenthey came that first time to
visit to invite them to comeback to give us some feedback
(22:27):
about the service.
So these are the things that Ilearned in office administration
that meal or if the lights areoff, to help you turn those
lights back on.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Folks need to come to the church to get that, but
also the church needs to be.
When we talk about the body ofChrist and being his hands and
feet, we shouldn't just come tochurch, we need to do what God
intended.
Right that's right.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And another thing the degree that I received, that's
(23:49):
right.
And another thing, the degreethat I received, the Master of
Arts in Christian Educationdegree.
And we got a little choirestablished, so the church,
rather than just sitting on thepews.
And then the parents got moreinvolved as the children became
involved, because relativeswould come to see them as they
(24:10):
were singing in the choir.
Well, that's my littlegranddaughter, that's my niece.
Sometimes we would get some ofthe family members to start
attending the church as a resultof that.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Let's talk about God's Word.
What's your favorite Bibleverse?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I like Jeremiah 29, 11.
That's been a favorite for me.
It has personal meanings for mebecause at one point in my life
I had applied for a job and Ithought that I was going to get
that job.
It was a job in Christianeducation.
I did not get the job.
(24:47):
I was so distraught.
But then I received an emailstating closed doors, open door.
The reason you don't getsomething in life is because
it's not meant for you.
That door is closed so thatyou'll go another way.
I knew this, but that was thefirst time I had ever heard that
(25:11):
and it had special meaning forme.
And later, instead of the jobthat I really wanted, I received
another job which was betterfor me.
One of the things that Ithought about the job that I
wanted was in the North, withall of that ice and snow.
(25:33):
That I wanted was in the north,with all of that ice and snow.
As I looked at the news and sawthe meteorologist talking about
all of the snow in that state,I said, yes, lord, you knew what
was best.
I did not need to be there withall of that snow.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Reverend Cherry, one thing I love about you is that
you live with no boundariesWherever God sends you.
That's where you're going, andI think that is just a wonderful
quality that you have.
Now you're writing a book.
You talked about it earlier.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
The name of the book is what the name of the book is
Tear Down these Walls.
And what I'm talking about inthis book.
We need to leave our gatedcommunities.
We need to leave thesemagnificent church buildings,
these edifices and go out intothe communities.
(26:26):
That's where the problems are.
That's where the people are.
We need to attack the problemsof homelessness, hunger, drug
problems, human trafficking.
There's so much to be done outthere and unfortunately, so many
(26:47):
people become seasonal workers.
You cannot do that.
We have to be not just heroesof the word but doers of the
word and not just go to ring thebell at Christmas, home at
Christmas or Mother's Day orFather's Day.
We need to try to find sometime that we can allot to do
(27:20):
other things the rest of thetime, because there are people
who are so lonely and would lovefor somebody to just come
around and let them know thatthey care.
This is important.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Now, Reverend Cherry, you done gone to preaching now
and I so so agree with you andshout amen.
God gifts each and every one ofus with talents and he expects
us to use them, just like in theparable of the talents.
And you're right, it's ayear-round thing and we have
(27:58):
tremendous need all around us,just like your story.
When you ask God, how can I beused, he opens door after door
of ways that we can make adifference.
So that's what we want toencourage our audience to do
right now, Isn't that right?
That's correct.
(28:18):
Be the difference that you wantto see in the world and remind
folks about the hope that wehave in Christ, but also the
hope that we bring to peopleevery time we meet their
physical needs, as Jesus did,and then meet their spiritual
needs.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
And we have to remember that there are
differences with us, but westill need to come together and
communicate with each other.
We have different colors ofskin, we have different textures
of hair, different colors ofskin, we have different textures
of hair, but when we're sad, wecry, we cry tears.
(29:05):
We all hurt the same.
Yes, if we're injured, if we'recut, that's the blood, it's the
same.
So we have to realize this andinstead of looking at the
differences that we have thisand instead of looking at the
differences that we have, don'tconcentrate on the differences.
Look at how we are more thesame and how we can move forward
(29:26):
, because one mother might wanttheir child to be educated,
another mother wants the samething.
When you realize that person wasborn in a different state or a
different country, but they wantthe same things that we want.
We want our children to be ableto go to school and come home
and not watch it on beatingthese men online.
We don't want our young men toget involved in gangs, because
(30:01):
they're seeking love and theythink that they can get that
love in these gangs.
We as parents, we as people, wehave so much in common.
We want the same thing, butwe're constantly bickering
instead of realizing that wewant the same thing.
We have a common goal.
(30:22):
Let's work together.
There's unity in strength.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Absolutely, Boy.
You have laid it out today andgiven us lots of things to think
about.
Thank you so much for joiningus and, if you've been listening
, think about what ReverendCherry said.
Be that change that you want tosee in the world.
Get involved with your localcommunity and I promise you this
(30:49):
you'll make a difference, butyou will also receive tremendous
amount of hope and joy in beingGod's hands and feet.
So enjoy your day and thanksagain, Reverend Cherry, for
joining me.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Thank you so much for having me as your guest.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Hope Mississippi.
When you need some hope and inspiration to build
collaboration.
Hope Mississippi is yoursalvation.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
One in four kids live in poverty.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
One in five are food deprived.
Build collaborations and buildhope with those who are
struggling.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Build collaborations and build hope with those who
are struggling.
Hope Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Hope
Mississippi.
I'm Dawn Beam and I am so happyto welcome Reverend Martha
Cherry today.
Welcome.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Reverend, thank you so very much.
It is an honor to be here withyou today.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
We were talking a few minutes ago and I had
previously met you at ourMethodist church here in
Summerall.
But you and I becamereacquainted recently at Wendy's
.
We were just sitting thereeating and started sharing our
faith and things, and it's sogood to get reacquainted with
you.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yes, it is.
I consider that as being divineintervention.
I was so happy to see you againand it was a pleasure for me to
share some of my experienceswith you growing up in
Birmingham.
I had just completed apresentation on Black history,
so I shared that with you.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
You know, I think that's how God works he directs
our path and I certainly praythat he directs my path, and I
think he put us there togetherthat day in February so that we
could encourage one another andshare our faith as well as our
journey.
Where did you start out?
Where did you grow up?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I was born in Corinth , mississippi, but I left there
when I turned seven years old.
I went to Birmingham, alabama.
So I really grew up inBirmingham.
I was in Birmingham during thetimes of the demonstrations, the
boycotts.
The presence of Dr King waseverywhere.
(02:20):
I remember so vividly when thebombing of the 16th Street
Baptist Church occurred.
One of the girls was my friend,carol Robertson.
We had talked that Friday andshe died that Sunday.
Addie Collins and I attendedthe same high school as well.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
I am so sorry.
You know there's a saying thatif you don't learn from history,
you are likely to repeat that.
So today we just want ouraudience to know your story,
Certainly growing up, and so youwere in Birmingham during that
(03:05):
difficult time.
Tell me your thoughts as ayoung girl and how you have seen
hope along the journey, as ayoung girl, I had fear.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I was frightened a lot just wondering what was
going to happen next, becausethere were bombings all around
me.
Other than the bombing at thechurch, there were homes that
were bombed as well, so it was atime when we really felt
uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
How did you draw from your faith during those times?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I drew from my faith that we were going to have a
brighter future.
Reverend Jesse Jackson used toalways say keep hope alive.
And that was what we had to dowas to keep our hope alive.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
The church can be such a comforting place, a place
of refuge and hope.
I'm reminded of a tornado thatwent through Hattiesburg one
time and my husband and I wentthat Sunday it happened on a
Saturday and provided food forthat church in the Palmas
Crossing area and the joy, theworship that they had in the
(04:23):
midst of a storm, in the midstof turmoil, where people had
passed, was amazing.
But that's our faith, that isour God, who is way more
powerful than we can everimagine.
So you came up in Birminghamand graduated from high school
(04:46):
in Birmingham?
Yes, I did and tell me aboutfrom.
There.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
After graduating from high school, I went to Atlanta,
georgia, to Spelman College,and at the time when I was in a
class taught by Mrs ChristineKing Ferris, dr King's sister,
she shared with us that Dr Kinghad just received the Nobel
(05:14):
Peace Prize.
So that was history in themaking and we were so very
excited about that.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
That must have been amazing to have a first row seat
to history being made.
Certainly there were strugglesalong the way, but things like
that are victories and have leftsuch a lasting impact on our
country.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yes, most definitely, and that was just the beginning
for me to really see a lot ofhistorical things happen,
because I started working forthe city of Atlanta and I
actually worked with MayorMaynard Jackson and he was
instrumental in getting theairport to Atlanta.
(06:02):
Then the next mayor was MayorYoung and he was instrumental in
getting the Olympics to come toAtlanta.
The next mayor was ShirleyFranklin.
She had the distinction ofbeing the first female mayor of
Atlanta and definitely the firstblack mayor, female mayor of
(06:27):
Atlanta.
So I worked with all of thesepeople and it was such a
pleasure to just see history inthe making.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
You know that's an important thing to remember is
we have folks that are named,that we remember because they
held political positions, butthere every day, are lots of
folks that are helping makegovernment work.
And so you worked for the cityof Atlanta.
What did you do there?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I worked in management.
I worked in the accountspayable division.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Okay, well, that's interesting.
Now you didn't stay in accountspayable division.
Okay, well, that's interesting.
Now you didn't stay in accountspayable.
Move me on along your journey,because I know that God has
directed your path through manytwists and turns.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yes, I did an internship and I left Atlanta.
So I moved around a lot.
I was in South Carolina for awhile, I was in Florida for a
while and some people would askme Martha, what are you going to
(07:36):
do in life?
You're getting these degrees,different areas.
Just what are you going to do?
I realized how God takes all ofthese experiences that we have
in life and they just cometogether like pieces of a puzzle
.
Later on you can see just howwell they fit together and what
(08:00):
plans God had for you.
So my first degree from GeorgiaState was in office
administration.
Then I went to the Master ofArts in Christian Education
degree, then from that one tothe Master of Divinity degree.
So I really used everythingthat I learned in my walk for
(08:25):
Christ.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
That's important.
You need to be equipped inorder to do what God has planned
for you, and each of us has adifferent mission, a different
journey, but we're all.
Our purpose should be to beGod's hands and feet and leave
for us Mississippi or ourcountry better than we found it.
(08:49):
So, with all of these degrees,keep welcoming me forward about
how God has used you.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
With these degrees.
I worked at the HattiesburgPolice Department and I was
there for over 10 years and Iactually worked as a chaplain
five of those years.
So that was a very interestingexperience because I had an
(09:17):
opportunity to really talk withthe officers, to be present.
When someone had a baby or ifsomebody had death in the family
, I was there.
Maybe if they were going topull over the plug, I was there
for that.
So God used me in so manydifferent ways as a chaplain.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That is absolutely wonderful.
You know, we take for grantedthe needs of our law enforcement
.
We just think they just show upand that they're supposed to
take care of us.
But it's important that wenurture them because they have
needs too, Certainly in the lineof duty, the things that they
experience.
They talk about secondhandtrauma, and in law enforcement
(10:04):
there is a lot of secondhandtrauma where you go into
households and see things thatwe're just not prepared to see.
That is so very true.
So you did that for 10 years,five years, five or 10 years.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I worked for the police department for a little
over ten years but, I, worked asa chaplain about five years.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Where did you see hope in that job?
Let's talk about hope and howyou saw hope in the work that
you were doing.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I saw hope because I saw experiences where people
came into the building and theywere very upset.
They felt like the world wastotally against them.
But they calmed down and theyrealized we weren't the enemies,
(10:56):
we were the friends.
We were the people who weretrying to help them.
We were the friends.
We were the people who weretrying to help them and we had
to just explain to them a lot ofthe procedures and the rules
and regulations.
They did not understand that.
So when they got a goodunderstanding of what was going
on, they calmed down in manyinstances.
So they had hope that thingswould work out for them.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
You know, I'm reminded of the Bible verse God
comforts us so that we can yetbe comforters, and he has
certainly been with you throughyour life and the struggles that
you have had.
When we were talking about yourlife and you talked about being
a chaplain, you've experiencedyour own heartache in seeing
(11:45):
family members being victims ofcrime.
Can you tell just a little bitabout that, because folks need
to understand the ripple effectthat crime has and also the hope
that we have in Christ thateven when difficulty comes, we
can always, always call on him.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
The first incident was the loss of my granddaughter
.
She was murdered and she waspregnant at the time, so that
was a double homicide.
And then the gun was turned onher daughter and she was shot
seven times.
Then the gunman turned the gunon a neighbor and shot her two
(12:31):
times.
The only one who died was mygranddaughter and the baby that
she was carrying.
I'm so sorry, thank you.
That was a difficult time.
Death is something that we haveto deal with, but it seems more
difficult when it's murderrather than just a death regular
(12:56):
death, you don't get thatopportunity to say goodbye and
to walk that path, and that'sfrustrating, isn't it?
It is very much so.
After that, my grandson wasmurdered in Atlanta, georgia.
It was home invasion, so thatwas another, and it happened not
(13:18):
that long after the other deathhad occurred.
So it was a rough time.
It really was, but I found thatmy healing took place by
talking about it.
Not just being closed in, butjust talking, but just talking.
(13:44):
And by talking to people I wasable to be an inspiration to
some people, because they said,oh, you have such strength and I
never thought of things thatway and I'm comforted by what
you're saying.
I always think how, whateverwe're experiencing, it could be
worse than whatever it is.
Whereas I lost twograndchildren at that time, it
(14:04):
could have been all of thegrandchildren.
They could have been in anautomobile accident and no one
could have been left.
There's just so many ways tothink about it and we have to
move on.
I am trying to make my life be agood example for my
grandchildren who are alive now,but the tribute to the children
(14:30):
who have died have been numberone.
I'm dedicating my book to thosedeaths of those children and I
want to do volunteer work.
This will be something that Ican do to help others.
There might be some mothers andgrandmothers out there who are
(14:55):
really struggling and they needto get the strength from me on
how to handle things like this.
I work in the school system, sowhen I'm working with the
children, I think perhaps Imight be able to reach this
child.
Nobody else might be able toreach that child, but I might
(15:17):
reach that child.
This will be a tribute to mygrandchildren who have died and
preceded me in death.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
That is just a wonderful statement.
They say that every child needssomebody to love them and
believe in them, and there's notelling how many kids that you
touch just like that.
And we can't understand whyevil happens.
Ever since sin came in theworld, evil has been here, but
(15:49):
good still prevails and webelieve that through our faith
that God forgives sin, he is aloving and forgiving God and
that he uses us, in theheartaches that we've gone
through, to help other folks.
And you know, my hope would bethat, as you work with kids in
(16:09):
the school, that they see thatthere's alternatives to a
lifestyle of crime.
You know, if I'm not mistaken,you work in the Hattiesburg
schools.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yes, I do.
Hattiesburg Public SchoolDistrict.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Boy.
It's been exciting to see howHattiesburg schools have really
taken off too.
Yes, if you haven't kept upwith the schools in Mississippi.
All around our kids areincreasing their reading
abilities and Hattiesburg is noexception, and part of this
podcast talks aboutcollaborations.
(16:46):
When we all work togethertoward the common good, great
things happen, and certainlyHattiesburg Public Schools is an
example, with churches adoptingschools, with churches adopting
schools, with people withskills whether it be yours that
goes in there, and you don'tjust teach, do you?
(17:10):
You certainly want to teachthem to read and write, but
beyond that, what otheropportunities do you have to
encourage kids to make wisechoices, to overcome trauma and
to set goals?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Being in the Hattiesburg Public Schools
District, it gives me anopportunity to listen to the
children.
Listening is very important.
These children need to havesomebody to listen to what they
have to say.
Sometimes they don't have otherpeople who listen to them.
(17:40):
Then there are times when theyneed somebody to talk to them.
So, just sharing experienceswith them Because of my age, I'm
able to share with them a lotof information about how things
used to be and they look at meand they say well, ms Cherry, I
(18:03):
can't believe that.
I just don't think it was thatway.
These children have never seenblack and white photos, things
that we take for granted andit's just a joy to me to see
their excitement when I talk tothem about how life used to be,
things that we used to do, andhow they can make their lives
(18:26):
much better.
Talk to them about theimportance of education.
They need to pursue highergoals and I'm so happy that
through the Hattiesburg PublicSchool System, especially at the
high school, there are programsthat prepare students to
receive dual degrees and thisway they're able to get out of
(18:49):
school and make money and then,if they want to go on and
further their education, theycan do that, but some of them
need to have jobs, and so that'sa good stepping stone for that.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Absolutely.
In Mississippi, I think we getso used to being the poorest
state that we don't really wrapour minds around the data that
one in four of our kids lives inpoverty.
One in five are food deprived,and we know that with poverty,
oftentimes those children aresurrounded by single parents.
(19:25):
Lots of crime, just a varietyof dysfunction, and so they say
that children talking aboutthemselves and things.
That's a one way to unpack allof that trauma.
And I know that God uses youevery day to encourage these
young people.
And that's one way to unpackall of that trauma.
And I know that God uses youevery day to encourage these
young people.
And that's exciting.
Yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I get excited when, for example, at the grocery
store and I hear Miss Cherry.
Hey, miss Cherry.
And then the child comes overand gives me a big hug.
It's so rewarding to know thatyou have made a friend, you've
touched a child, you've made adifference in their lives.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
That is wonderful.
You wear so many hats.
You've been the chaplain.
You are working in the schoolsand making a difference there.
You also have a master's indivinity, so you have studied
the Bible.
Now do you preach.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
I was a temporary pastor at two churches here in
Mississippi and I also worked asa director of Christian
education at a church in Florida.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Okay, and so part of your education that, masters of
Divinity, you really knocked theglass ceiling out as far as
you're excelling in that area,is that right?
I just looked at some of thenewspaper articles about you.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Yes, yes, that was very interesting and, as I said,
what I learned getting mybachelor's degree in office
administration helped me when Iwent to do my internship for my
Master of Divinity degree,because I learned the importance
of being able to talk to people.
(21:19):
So when you're a supervisor orany other leadership position,
you need to be able to listen topeople and talk to them in a
way that they will reallyunderstand, and you have to be
tactful and not talk down tothem.
So I applied this same methodwhen I went into the churches.
(21:42):
I did a lot of evangelism and Iwanted to know why members of
the church had stopped attendingand I went out and I visited
with them and I discovered thatthey said well, nobody said
anything to me and I felt likethey didn't want me at the
(22:03):
church.
So we had people who returnedto church and that was a good
thing.
People need to feel neededAbsolutely A simple card to say
I'm thinking about you, and Imade certain that at the church,
we gave cards to people whenthey came that first time to
visit to invite them to comeback to give us some feedback
(22:27):
about the service.
So these are the things that Ilearned in office administration
that meal or if the lights areoff, to help you turn those
lights back on.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Folks need to come to the church to get that, but
also the church needs to be.
When we talk about the body ofChrist and being his hands and
feet, we shouldn't just come tochurch, we need to do what God
intended.
Right that's right.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And another thing the degree that I received, that's
(23:49):
right.
And another thing, the degreethat I received, the Master of
Arts in Christian Educationdegree.
And we got a little choirestablished, so the church,
rather than just sitting on thepews.
And then the parents got moreinvolved as the children became
involved, because relativeswould come to see them as they
(24:10):
were singing in the choir.
Well, that's my littlegranddaughter, that's my niece.
Sometimes we would get some ofthe family members to start
attending the church as a resultof that.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Let's talk about God's Word.
What's your favorite Bibleverse?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I like Jeremiah 29, 11.
That's been a favorite for me.
It has personal meanings for mebecause at one point in my life
I had applied for a job and Ithought that I was going to get
that job.
It was a job in Christianeducation.
I did not get the job.
(24:47):
I was so distraught.
But then I received an emailstating closed doors, open door.
The reason you don't getsomething in life is because
it's not meant for you.
That door is closed so thatyou'll go another way.
I knew this, but that was thefirst time I had ever heard that
(25:11):
and it had special meaning forme.
And later, instead of the jobthat I really wanted, I received
another job which was betterfor me.
One of the things that Ithought about the job that I
wanted was in the North, withall of that ice and snow.
(25:33):
That I wanted was in the north,with all of that ice and snow.
As I looked at the news and sawthe meteorologist talking about
all of the snow in that state,I said, yes, lord, you knew what
was best.
I did not need to be there withall of that snow.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Reverend Cherry, one thing I love about you is that
you live with no boundariesWherever God sends you.
That's where you're going, andI think that is just a wonderful
quality that you have.
Now you're writing a book.
You talked about it earlier.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
The name of the book is what the name of the book is
Tear Down these Walls.
And what I'm talking about inthis book.
We need to leave our gatedcommunities.
We need to leave thesemagnificent church buildings,
these edifices and go out intothe communities.
(26:26):
That's where the problems are.
That's where the people are.
We need to attack the problemsof homelessness, hunger, drug
problems, human trafficking.
There's so much to be done outthere and unfortunately, so many
(26:47):
people become seasonal workers.
You cannot do that.
We have to be not just heroesof the word but doers of the
word and not just go to ring thebell at Christmas, home at
Christmas or Mother's Day orFather's Day.
We need to try to find sometime that we can allot to do
(27:20):
other things the rest of thetime, because there are people
who are so lonely and would lovefor somebody to just come
around and let them know thatthey care.
This is important.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Now, Reverend Cherry, you done gone to preaching now
and I so so agree with you andshout amen.
God gifts each and every one ofus with talents and he expects
us to use them, just like in theparable of the talents.
And you're right, it's ayear-round thing and we have
(27:58):
tremendous need all around us,just like your story.
When you ask God, how can I beused, he opens door after door
of ways that we can make adifference.
So that's what we want toencourage our audience to do
right now, Isn't that right?
That's correct.
(28:18):
Be the difference that you wantto see in the world and remind
folks about the hope that wehave in Christ, but also the
hope that we bring to peopleevery time we meet their
physical needs, as Jesus did,and then meet their spiritual
needs.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
And we have to remember that there are
differences with us, but westill need to come together and
communicate with each other.
We have different colors ofskin, we have different textures
of hair, different colors ofskin, we have different textures
of hair, but when we're sad, wecry, we cry tears.
(29:05):
We all hurt the same.
Yes, if we're injured, if we'recut, that's the blood, it's the
same.
So we have to realize this andinstead of looking at the
differences that we have thisand instead of looking at the
differences that we have, don'tconcentrate on the differences.
Look at how we are more thesame and how we can move forward
(29:26):
, because one mother might wanttheir child to be educated,
another mother wants the samething.
When you realize that person wasborn in a different state or a
different country, but they wantthe same things that we want.
We want our children to be ableto go to school and come home
and not watch it on beatingthese men online.
We don't want our young men toget involved in gangs, because
(30:01):
they're seeking love and theythink that they can get that
love in these gangs.
We as parents, we as people, wehave so much in common.
We want the same thing, butwe're constantly bickering
instead of realizing that wewant the same thing.
We have a common goal.
(30:22):
Let's work together.
There's unity in strength.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Absolutely, Boy.
You have laid it out today andgiven us lots of things to think
about.
Thank you so much for joiningus and, if you've been listening
, think about what ReverendCherry said.
Be that change that you want tosee in the world.
Get involved with your localcommunity and I promise you this
(30:49):
you'll make a difference, butyou will also receive tremendous
amount of hope and joy in beingGod's hands and feet.
So enjoy your day and thanksagain, Reverend Cherry, for
joining me.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Thank you so much for having me as your guest.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Hope Mississippi.
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