October 15, 2025 • 33 mins
At the 2025 Mississippi State Bar Convention, former State Supreme Court Justice Dawn Beam interviewed over 20 people in 3 days to bring you a special 7-part series of her Hope Mississippi podcast. This is part five of seven.
Hope isn’t a slogan here; it’s a practice you can feel in the room. We sit down with Judge David McCarty of the Mississippi Court of Appeals, Mississippi Gaming Commission Executive Director Jay McDaniel, and family-law veteran Richard Roberts to explore how justice, integrity, and everyday mentorship create real pathways forward—especially when the stakes are personal and the margin for error is thin.
Judge McCarty takes us behind the robe to the human pressure of getting cases right: the late nights, the worry, and the relief that the Court of Appeals exists to share the load and honor every appeal with careful review. He makes a compelling case for diversity on the bench, not as a buzzword, but as a practical safeguard against blind spots. When colleagues with different life experiences challenge each other, reason improves and public trust grows. He also shares a simple habit: a nightly gratitude journal, which helps him maintain perspective amid Mississippi’s beauty and its inequities.
Jay McDaniel connects legal training to real-world regulation, explaining how analytical thinking and ethics guide hard calls in gaming: enforcing rules, addressing gray areas, and balancing tourism, tax revenue, and problem gambling resources. His reflection on Katrina-era leadership demonstrates how adaptive law and clear priorities helped casinos and thousands of families rebuild stronger on the Coast. For students and mid‑career professionals, his message is energizing: your background is a springboard, not a barrier.
Richard C. Roberts III then opens the door to family law, where counsel often means cooling the room before you heat up the record. He explains why reputation and professionalism are non‑negotiable in a small legal community and how wise decisions in the most emotional moments can save years of pain. When clients can’t see past the storm, a steady lawyer helps them find the path, and sometimes, to their surprise, the light returns.
If you believe your word is your bond, if you care about fair courts, and if you’ve ever needed someone to open a door for you, this conversation will meet you where you are and nudge you a step forward. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs a lift, and leave a review with one word that gives you hope today.
Hope Mississippi's Mission: The sobering reality remains: one in four Mississippi children lives in poverty, and one in five experiences food insecurity. These statistics aren't just numbers—they're our collective challenge. Through these conversations, we discover that Mississippi's transformation occurs through individual commitments to mentor, encourage, and be present for others. The small acts of hope accumulate into the broader "miracles" we celebrate.
Join us for new episodes on the 1st and 15th of each month as we continue sharing stories of transformation from across Mississippi. Each story
Join us for new episodes on the 1st and 15th of each month as we continue sharing stories of transformation from across Mississippi. Each story reminds us that when we contribute our unique gifts, Mississippi rises together.
Hope Mississippi's Mission: The sobering reality remains: one in four Mississippi children lives in poverty, and one in five experiences food insecurity. These statistics aren't just numbers—they're our collective challenge. Through these conversations, we discover that Mississippi's transformation occurs through individual commitments to mentor, encourage, and be present for others. The small acts of hope accumulate into the broader "miracles" we celebrate.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_05 (00:00):
Free on the elphonic production.
Polephonic.com.
SPEAKER_00 (00:18):
One in four kids live in poverty.
SPEAKER_03 (00:23):
One in five food pride.
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
Build collaboration and build hope with those who
are struggling.
Hello and welcome back to theMississippi Bar Convention in
(00:48):
Sandestin.
And I have got my good friend,Judge David McCarty.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_03 (00:56):
Thank you so much, Justice.
It's such an honor to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
You are one of my very, very favorite lawyers.
Don't tell anybody else.
And the reason is because Iremember when you practice law
and you practice with such apassion about doing the right
thing.
And really, that's what all ofus are about.
SPEAKER_03 (01:17):
Yes, ma'am.
In the best possible day,Justice, and thank you for
saying that.
I loved being a lawyer, servedas a lawyer for 14 years until I
was elected to the Court ofAppeals in the fall of 2018.
Moving from somebody who wasmeeting with people every day.
I had a little bitty law officein downtown Jackson, meeting
with people every day, talkingto clients on the phone every
(01:37):
day, being in court with peopleevery day.
And so it's been an adjustmentover the years.
I'll say that.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
No doubt.
You know, I'm reminded beforeyou went on to the Court of
Appeals, you did a CLE for ourappellate judges.
And you talked about how nervousyou were going before the court.
SPEAKER_03 (02:06):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
And talked about how, you know, after it, you
could wring the sweat out ofyour shirt.
And I'm thinking, bless hisheart.
I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_03 (02:15):
Do you know, Justice, this is one of the
things because you were on thecourt for many years before I
got elected, and and knowing howyou treated people made such an
impact on me because noteverybody is that way.
Not every judge is thinking withempathy and care for the
advocates before them, notbecause they're not good judges,
(02:35):
but because there's so manyother things going on.
But you always centered yourrespect for people, your respect
for how people were treated inand out of the courtroom.
And I love that so much becauseI found it tough to argue before
nine constitutional officers.
I found it very intimidating.
I found it thrilling, but it wasa challenge.
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
Well, and you know, at the end of the day, we all
just wanted to get it right.
And I know that's how y'all arenow.
When we would get out there, ifwe were all falling out, you
could bet that we had studiedthe material and were ready.
You may be nervous, but therewere times where we were nervous
because we just wanted to get itright.
SPEAKER_03 (03:18):
That's the burden that I that I love so much that
I've been so privileged to seeand experience myself because
for lawyers, there's just thispanel of people wearing black
robes, and we literally sitabove the courtroom.
This is not to intimidate perse, but to show that you're
presiding over this arena ofjustice.
And knowing now how much weworry and sweat to get the
(03:41):
details right and to make surewe get the right result, that
gives me so much hope for whatuh our judiciary does for the
people in Mississippi and forwhere our j our judiciary is
headed.
As you know, Justice Sys is the30th anniversary of the Court of
Appeals.
So we were founded, thelegislature created us, and we
went into operation in 1995.
(04:03):
We had a severe backlog at theMississippi Supreme Court, not
because they weren't workinghard, but because the number of
appeals had exceeded what anynine people could do in a year.
So there were a thousand appealsa year starting in 1985, running
through 2005.
Nine people cannot do that muchwork.
(04:23):
So we like to think that we'reworking hard to continue to be a
great backstop for the SupremeCourt and a thing to help people
achieve justice in Mississippi.
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
As we talk to folks at this podcast, we want them to
know about the hope inMississippi, but I keep it as
confidence in your judiciary.
And so I've never met a perfectjudge.
I was not a perfect judge.
And so for those that are doencounter the judicial system,
there is a very independentreview of what judges do.
SPEAKER_03 (04:59):
Oh, absolutely.
And the best thing to justice,in my view, the Mississippi
Supreme Court has nine people,the Court of Appeals has ten.
And so we come from allbackgrounds, all different
faiths.
We are now, as of this year,with the election of the
honorable Amy Lasseter St.
Hay from Moss Point, there arefive men, there are five women,
(05:21):
and no two men are alike, no twowomen are alike.
So we've got people from theDelta, people from the Gulf
Coast, people from Tupelo,people from Jackson.
So every type of people, wecheck each other.
So I'm a 50-year-old white manwho grew up in Alabama.
Whether I think I have blindspots, I'm also only five foot
(05:42):
nine.
So there's only so much I cansee.
Well, that's why my presidingjudge, Virginia Carleton,
originally of Columbia, she nowlives in Jackson, is such a
great helper to me and awonderful mentor to me.
She was in the military justicebeam for over 20 years.
She served there with her withher husband, Dr.
Carleton.
(06:02):
Dedicated public servants,dedicated uh servants to the
United States.
She has different views onthings than me.
She has more experiences thanme.
And so when I don't know how todo something, I can walk down
the hallway and say, Judge, howwould you do this?
How does this work?
That to me is when we see uhdemocracy in action, when we see
(06:24):
our court system reallyflourish, when people begin to
learn from each other and listento each other.
SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
Folks out there need to be reassured that the judges
that they elect, we arecommitted to doing the right
thing, not what we want, butfollowing the law and the rule
of law.
SPEAKER_03 (06:42):
Absolutely.
The best thing in the world forme is having her, having other
people from different ages andwalks of life who I can say, how
do you read this?
Do we see this the same way?
Am I doing this right?
And then to we if I'm not,someone can write a dissent and
tell me, hey, you really gotthis wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (07:02):
Trust me, I know how that goes.
I want to shift gears just alittle bit.
You talked about that yourupbringing is different, but you
and I have spent a good bit oftime together talking about
family.
And one thing that we want to dois talk to people about hope in
Mississippi and encourage youngpeople to make a difference and
adults as well, to bring alongfolks as you move, slow down
(07:25):
long enough to encourage them.
So let's talk about your past,how people have worked with you,
and then how you get to do thatsame thing.
SPEAKER_03 (07:33):
You know, Justice, I am a combination of my parents,
my grandparents, my aunts, myuncles.
But for them, I would not beallowed to be here with you at
the bar convention and Dustinsharing about this.
You've heard a lot about mymama.
She was a homemaker.
She reared two children.
That was a full-time job, by theway.
(07:54):
And that's a job.
My dad was a coal miner.
We lived on the west side ofBirmingham, and like his dad, he
worked for U.S.
Steel.
There's a long history of coalmining in Alabama, in North
Alabama, and that's what mygrandfather did.
My great-grandfather.
I still have an uncle who's whoworks over in Concord, Alabama,
underground.
That's a tough life.
(08:15):
These were people who workedevery day.
He was 500 feet underground.
My mom was doing her best toparent us and teach us how to
read.
She was insistent that we learnhow to read by the time we were
four.
So we had kindergarten inAlabama.
Some of my friends inMississippi didn't have that,
but which we do have universalkindergarten now.
(08:35):
But by the time we got toschool, my sister and I could
read, write, do a little bit ofmath.
But that shaped us so much,Justice.
Every time we we went to thesame church as my grandparents,
Sandusky Baptist, which is stillthere in Sandusky, Alabama.
And then nearly every Sundayafter church, we would go to my
grandparents' house who livedthree miles from us.
(08:58):
This was just what life was tome.
Not everybody gets that.
I'm keenly aware of that as Iage, that I'm a product of
having my grandfather teach meout in the backyard.
My grandmother babysit me, andshe was a wonderful, thoughtful,
she's now passed on, but that'swhere I probably got my moral
(09:18):
core from was my grandmother,Dorothy Wynell McCarty.
SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
Ah.
My mother was Dorothy as well.
Let's talk just a minute.
Most of us were not born with asilver spoon in our mouth.
We know what it's like to workhard.
And when you go before a judge,you can be confident that we're
just like everybody else.
SPEAKER_03 (09:38):
Yes.
Yes.
I think that's so importantbecause we literally wear the
robe to obscure our identity, tosay we're part of something
larger.
I'm no longer when I put my robeon, I'm no longer David McCarty,
who lives in Jackson,Mississippi.
I'm judge of the Court ofAppeals.
It's a privilege to do that, butI still have with me my
(09:59):
experiences in my life.
If you've got a panel of us andyou've got Judge Carleton in the
middle, this is a recent panel.
You have Judge Carlton in themiddle, you've got Judge John M.
Finger who lives in Brandon.
I'm gonna out him just as healso grew up in Alabama.
There's a few of us runningaround.
But you've got with JudgeCarlton, you have somebody who
(10:19):
literally was raising childrenon military basis in Germany
when she was deployed, wholiterally was deployed to Iraq.
You've got Judge Mfinger wholiterally chopped cotton when he
was little and coached footballwhen he was in law school where
he could make his tuition.
You've got somebody like me thatworked in strip pits in North
Alabama that used to operate afront-end loader.
(10:42):
Those experiences are part ofwho you have.
Yes, we're trained legalprofessionals.
Judge Mfinger is anextraordinary wealth of
information because he served asa circuit judge for 10 years and
ranking in Madison beforejoining the Court of Appeals.
But we have that in us.
And so I always want people toremember that we are people a
little bit.
(11:02):
And I remember when me tellingyou that I would sweat so I
would sweat through my shirt.
You know, that's why I alwayswore a blue suit, dark blue,
dark black.
It doesn't show the sweat.
SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
Well, I'm proud of you.
You're doing great on the Courtof Appeals.
One other thing, I have noticedhow you bring folks along with
you, you law students that youteach, you bring them along,
challenge people out there, notjust lawyers and judges, but the
average person.
You talked about how blessed youwere to have family, but not
(11:34):
everybody's that blessed.
No, man.
Challenge the folks to sharehope throughout Mississippi.
SPEAKER_03 (11:39):
Y'all, please, so much.
Think about the thingssometimes.
Just take a minute.
I I've started to do thisseveral years ago.
I keep a gratitude journal.
Every night before I go to bed,I write down a minimum of three
things that I'm thankful for.
And there are times when what Iwrite down, I may have had a
hard day, a hard day at work,hard day on the bench, but there
(11:59):
are times when I write down thatI'm thankful that my mom was
there for me.
I'm thankful that I can call mydad, who turns 75 in a couple of
months, a couple of weeks.
I'm thankful I can call him foradvice now.
Not everybody gets that.
And for us to remember thatother people don't always have
the things that we get right nowor that we had growing up.
(12:21):
You know, Mississippi is themost beautiful, special,
wonderful place I have ever beenin my life, which is why it's my
home.
But it is a place where we havesome deep inequality.
We have challenges to education,challenges to health care.
This is not to say that we'rebad.
It's to say that we haveobstacles and we can fight
(12:42):
through.
But not everybody gets the samethings you do.
And so please remember somebodyin that family, it's gonna be
their first time going tocollege.
Somebody in that family, it'sgonna be their first time going
to law school.
Somebody in that family hasnever met a lawyer.
They haven't met a judge.
And and just remember that, notwhere you can put on airs or act
in a way that you wouldn't, butto be thoughtful and go, how am
(13:05):
I going to interact with thisperson and share myself with
them and let them in?
One of my favorite things of alltime, and and I never met Willie
Morris, the great writer fromYazoo City, but I had a lot of
friends who did.
And when he he would say that,you know, Mississippi is not a
state, it's a club.
And that can go a lot ofdifferent ways, negative,
positive, but but for me,Justice, if it is a club, and I
(13:28):
think you might be right, then Ithink it's incumbent on me to
make sure the door is open.
unknown (13:32):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (13:33):
And to bring people in and to tell them, this is the
professor at Mississippi Statewho helped me.
This is the professor atMississippi College who taught
me.
This is the judge or Justice DonBeam who encouraged me and was
kind and loving to me.
And I want to be able to do forpeople what you always did for
me in my career.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
Well, I can't thank you enough for sharing with us.
You've been a huge curencourager to my son, and I want
to point that out as we close.
SPEAKER_03 (13:58):
I love Sam.
Good man.
SPEAKER_01 (14:00):
You're gonna be a daddy in a few days.
Thank you.
Thank you for the folks that arelistening.
Stop and think how you can sharehope today.
Thanks so much.
SPEAKER_02 (14:13):
Hope, Mississippi, is your salvation.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Hello and welcome to the Mississippi Bar Convention.
You just never know who you'regonna meet at the Bar
Convention.
And I met Jay McDaniel.
Tell the tell the folks outthere hello.
SPEAKER_04 (14:32):
Good morning.
Jay McDaniel, executive directorof the Mississippi Gaming
Commission.
It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
It's great to have you.
And you have a legacy of lawyersand judges in your family.
Can you just tell a little bitabout yourself and your family?
SPEAKER_04 (14:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
I grew up in uh Brandon,Mississippi.
Uh my father was an attorney.
He practiced as a judge for mostof his career.
At some point, he was also aU.S.
attorney.
He had me coming here to thisconvention when I was a little
child.
I loved it.
Kind of groomed me.
He he told me not to become anattorney, but uh despite his
advice, I did, and I'm glad Idid, and I think he's glad I
(15:08):
did.
But yeah, so my father is wellknown in Rankin County and
around the state, and so I wentto Mississippi College School of
Law and still work and live inthe Jackson area.
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
Tell me, what brought you to the law?
I know you grew up coming to theBar Convention and you knew your
dad was a lawyer, but why be alawyer?
SPEAKER_04 (15:26):
Like I said, he worked for the federal
government, worked as a judgefor the state.
And I I thought that I wanted todo something like that, whether
it was a prosecutor or a judge.
And so undergrad, though, hesaid, go get you a degree, try
something else first.
So I got an accounting degree,practiced for a few years in
accounting, and then decided togo back.
I was about 30 years old.
I said, you know, I really, lawis just, I love it.
I got to know it even as anaccountant.
(15:46):
I enrolled at MississippiCollege School of Law and I
thought I was going to do thepublic servant thing.
I did practice with a law firmfor about three years, and then
this job with the MississippiGaming Commission came open.
I went back into that and I washis deputy director for a few
years.
What I found was my law degreewas crucial in that role, and
it's crucial in my role nowbecause even if you're not
(16:07):
practicing law or in court, thethe legal questions that come up
every day, you know, the ethicalquestions, the things that law
school and law practice groomyfor really set up well for this
job.
So I'm glad I did it.
SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
In part, we're talking to possible law
students.
And I'm reminded you had anaccounting degree, I had a
business degree.
But you know, when people aretrying to figure out what do I
need to major in if I want to goto law school, there is a
variety of avenues.
And certainly your accountingdegree makes a difference,
right?
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_04 (16:39):
Sure, great point.
I mean, I've worked with lawyersthat were engineers, some even
doctors decide to go to lawschool.
So, you know, depending on whatkind of practice you're gonna
do, there's an all manner ofbasis that can help you.
But I do think accounting,finance, business, certainly if
you're gonna run your own lawfirm, those things come, you
know, they they joke sometimeslawyers can make poor business
managers or doctors the sameway.
(17:00):
But just having that basis ofanything, because no matter what
you practice, you're gonna comeacross a case at some point that
has those kind of issues, uhfinancial issues or, you know,
the issues that maybe anengineer might encounter in a
big complex litigation case.
So I would encourage if even ifa student looks at law school in
the future, think of a of a goodbase major because it doesn't
(17:22):
really matter.
It's gonna help you, I guaranteeyou, somewhere down the down the
line.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
And you know, being a lawyer is so flexible.
Not everybody is that PerryMason that runs in the courtroom
and has that surprise witness.
But we are trained to thinkanalytically, to think from a
standpoint of right and wrongand ethics.
Can you speak to that certainlyas the gaming commission?
SPEAKER_04 (17:48):
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, one of the mostimportant things for a lawyer is
to look.
You you've got to be an advocatefor your client and fight your
client's case, but you've got tolook at all sides of it, because
that helps you with yourargument.
You know, what is this, what isthis opponent thinking?
You know, where are they comingat this from?
And and as director of thegaming commission, that's what I
have to do.
We we have laws and rules wehave to enforce, but sometimes
(18:09):
there's gray areas in there.
Sometimes we have to makedeterminations, so we have to
resolve ambiguities.
And so it's very important tolook at things analytically and
say, you know, what was thelegislature thinking when they
wrote this law 20 years ago?
Uh, what has changed since then?
And when you're in practice,that comes up a lot.
You're dealing a lot of timeswith laws and cases that were
resolved in the 80s and the 90s,and you have to look at, well,
(18:30):
well, how would this applytoday?
So a good analytical mind andbeing able to look at things
from all points of view and thenadvocate with that, you know, in
mind.
SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
So when we're talking about hope, Mississippi,
one great quality in Mississippiis that our word is our bond,
whether that be in a casino, ifyou're placing a bet, you know
that the rules are beingfollowed or in business.
So could you just speak to that,the importance of our word being
(19:00):
our bond and that the justicesystem ensures that?
SPEAKER_04 (19:03):
That's a great point.
Your your word is your bond.
Your reputation is everything.
You're not gonna win every case.
You're gonna have times you getknocked down, but stay true to
yourself.
You know, remember why you gotinto this profession when you
took that oath and and justcarry that through in your
mission.
And like you said, no matterwhat area you're working in, I
really never thought I'd be agaming regulator.
(19:24):
But all of the things I didbefore that prepared me for
this, and I can draw on what mydad did, the things I learned
growing up, the things I wastaught in law school.
But keeping that hope, as youmentioned, that no matter where
I am, as long as I'm true tomyself, apply the law with
dignity, honestly, you're gonnabe well regarded and you're
gonna you're gonna come out onthe right end end of things.
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
Absolutely.
Let's talk to Mississippians outthere.
You know, we have lots ofchallenges.
One in four of our kids live inpoverty, one in five are food
deprived.
And certainly gaming, let's talkabout that.
Gaming does play a role inhelping our state overcome,
right?
You have profits that go to helpus.
SPEAKER_04 (20:05):
Absolutely.
I mean, one of the reasonsgaming, well, the the reason
really, gaming was passed in in1990 and 1991 was a tax revenue
generator.
You had an entertainmentindustry that could benefit the
state from a tourism standpoint.
But on the other end, those taxrevenues go to a state that has
had trouble raising taxes.
So our hope is that the peoplethat play are playing with money
(20:28):
they can afford to play with.
SPEAKER_01 (20:29):
Amen.
SPEAKER_04 (20:30):
We do point to problem gambling resources when
that's not the case, becauseunfortunately that happens.
But we try and identify that andmake sure that the people
playing are doing it becausethey have the funds.
That money that's won by theproperties, not only do you have
the tax revenue, but they'rereinvesting.
They're hiring people in ourcoastal and river counties,
they're putting money back intophilanthropy, things like that.
(20:51):
Also on a local, city, andcounty level, you know, going to
schools and infrastructure.
So it is an industry that wewant to do right.
We want it to do right becausewe want it to make money for our
state.
And then it is up to thelegislature and the local city
and county to make sure thosefunds get to the right place.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
You know, we heard Governor Haley Barber speak
yesterday.
And after Katrina, the questionwas, oh my goodness, what can we
do to make sure that gamingcontinues because Mississippi
relies on that revenue to helpmake a difference.
SPEAKER_04 (21:22):
That's right.
When Katrina, it wiped out thecoastal uh, you know, you had a
lot of families, a lot ofbusinesses suffering, and the
the casinos were not immune tothat.
Every one of them was shut downfor months.
And every month they're closed.
That's months of hundreds ofmillions of tax revenue not
coming in.
So Governor Barber and theleadership at that time did a
great job.
They changed the rules a littlebit, said, you know, you can
(21:43):
shore up your casinos, you canmove them inland if you want,
and they came back better.
As much of the coast did, Ithink uh it has come back
better.
And uh and his leadership, Iapplaud the leaders that were in
place in that time.
And and God forbid we everencounter another disaster like
that.
I feel strong that ourleadership's day would act the
same way.
Do whatever it can to rebuildbetter.
SPEAKER_01 (22:05):
So, and a final note, we want to encourage
Mississippians.
If you're young, make a goal tomake a difference in
Mississippi.
If you've reached middle age orolder, reach back and encourage
others.
Can you speak to that?
SPEAKER_04 (22:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's what I would encouragethose.
I like I said, I went to lawschool when I was 30.
There were probably times in mymid-20s when I felt like I was
in a rut.
I was like, is this it?
I, you know, I've I've found mydegree.
I'm doing, I wasn't really doingsomething I enjoyed.
And but what I did was say, youknow, I can get myself out of
this.
I it's not too late to go backto school.
And yeah, just always know thatyou you've got your brain,
(22:44):
you've got, you've got a smartmind, you've got a, you know, a
heart for something, passion forsomething.
It's never too late to go backand do it.
And so just never feel likethere's not an opportunity for
you.
There are people out there thatwill help you get it.
Just uh make sure, like yousaid, look back.
What did I want 10 years ago?
And if I'm not doing it now, whyam I not doing it?
And uh and find a way to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
Absolutely.
And you know, there's joy inpulling people along.
I've I've experienced this atthe Bar convention as I've seen
people that I've helped alongthe way.
So we encourage folks to reachback and bring people forward.
SPEAKER_04 (23:17):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
Okay, thank you so much for joining me.
I told you it would be punished.
It's great.
SPEAKER_04 (23:21):
It's a pleasure.
SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
And I encourage the folks that are listening, make
hope happen wherever you are.
Hope, Mississippi, is yoursalvation.
Welcome back.
I am so glad to have my friendRichard Roberts here today.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_05 (23:41):
Thank you.
Nice to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
Richard and I, we have practiced law together,
right?
SPEAKER_05 (23:46):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
I have known you in so many different ways.
Could you just tell the folks alittle bit about yourself and
the folks that helped you alongthe way to become the person
that you are?
SPEAKER_05 (24:01):
Well, I started practicing law 49 years ago.
I did well in school, so I wasable to go basically where I
wanted to go.
I went with a firm that uh didemployment discrimination
representing big companies.
And after several years of that,I decided to go into private
practice by myself, and I was asolo practitioner for many
years, and then started takingon associates and partners, and
(24:25):
now I have uh two partners,David Bridges and Jennifer
Woidston.
We practice exclusively familylaw in Ridgeland, Mississippi.
Completely different from what Istarted out doing.
If you had told me in law schoolI was going to be a divorce
lawyer, I I would have told youyou're crazy.
But uh that's how things workedout, and it's been my area of
(24:45):
service, and that's how I lookat it.
People who have helped me alongthe way, guys, are too many to
name, but certainly a lot of mylaw professors, Gough Abbott,
cops to mine, uh just so many.
And then people I practice lawwith, people I practice law
against, judges.
I remember when you werechancellor, I remember when you
were chairman of the family lawsection, just all kind of grown
(25:07):
up in that.
So there's so many people thatare influencing us as we
progress in our law practice.
SPEAKER_01 (25:13):
You know, we're here at the Bar Convention and lay
people sometimes don'tunderstand the relationship that
lawyers have.
It's a it's a relationship oftrust and open communication.
You need to know that when I'mrepresenting someone, I'm
representing the truth.
And I don't know about you, butalong the way I've developed my
(25:34):
short list of a few folks Icouldn't trust, but there's so
many more that I would take whatthey say to the bank.
SPEAKER_05 (25:42):
It's a it's a small community in the family law
section.
And so it takes a long time togain trust and it can be lost
quickly.
So you have to guard thatbecause your reputation is very
important.
You know, Proverbs says a goodname is to be valued in silver
and gold.
So you have to take that toheart.
SPEAKER_01 (26:02):
So when we talk about the bar in particular,
folks need to know that we dovalue our character and that
it's important that we alwaysdeal in an honest and fair
manner.
And that's the key to ourjustice system, isn't it?
SPEAKER_05 (26:19):
I agree completely.
SPEAKER_01 (26:21):
You know, as a judge, I I knew who I could
trust and who I couldn't.
So you want that lawyer that hascredibility with the court.
And we would just encouragefolks to understand that that we
may have coffee together, but atthe end of the day, our goal is
to do the right thing and toadvocate for our clients.
SPEAKER_05 (26:41):
That's right.
That's right.
And professionalism is so much apart of it.
Advocacy is professionalism at ahigh level where you can
advocate for your client, youcan argue your legal positions,
it does not get personal.
It does not there's no need foranimosity.
It's your position, yourclient's position that you're
(27:04):
advocating for, you're trying toadvance.
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
Let's talk about family law, because that's a
very unique area.
And what brought you to thatarea?
SPEAKER_05 (27:13):
I went out on my own.
Whatever came across thethreshold, I took in.
You know, I call myself athreshold lawyer, whatever I
did.
And I had never been in achancery court, except one time
I went down to Kapaya County,which carried the chancellor
down there, to get an injunctionand a strike.
So I had never been in statecourt.
(27:34):
All of my work was in federalcourt.
And I liked federal court.
I did federal court litigation.
It's very rules-based, andeverybody knows what the rules
of the game are.
Now, back then, the Mississippirules of civil procedure were
just being adopted, finiterules, very much like the
federal rules of civilprocedure.
So it was easier to learn thatthan all of the myriad rules
(27:58):
that existed in state courtpractice for so many years.
Matter of fact, when I firststarted in practice, many of the
older lawyers would say, let'sjust practice this on the under
the old rules, okay?
So uh there was a learning curvethere, but I enjoyed it.
And, you know, you do one familylaw case, one divorce case, and
(28:18):
then they refer you to somebodyelse, and then you're doing more
than one, and then you're doingmany more, and it soon got to be
about a third of my lawpractice.
I was doing a generallitigation, still doing
employment law on both sides,and then more and more family
law.
But I enjoyed the family law.
(28:39):
And I was representing banks andhospitals and so forth.
I was working with presidentsand HR directors and vice
presidents, and the litigationwas serious.
But at the end of the day, itwasn't their life, it wasn't
their money, it wasn't theirchildren, it was impersonal in a
(28:59):
lot of ways.
And employment law was a verycontentious area of the law back
in the 70s and early 80s.
So it was it was a hardpractice, but it was still not
personal.
Now, family law is completelydifferent.
Some of my best friends, trulybest friends, are former clients
of mine.
(29:20):
We've been in the foxholetogether and we're just formed
fast friendships.
And when you're representing afamily law client, for most
people it is the mostsignificant legal event that's
ever going to happen in theirlife.
They may have been in a loanclosing, they may have had a
little car wreck along the way,but and it could be a serious
(29:41):
car wreck.
But for most people, a divorceis life changing.
It has effect not only on theimmediate family, the children,
both the spouses, the nieces,the uncles, the aunts, the
brothers, the sisters, thegrandparents but it resonates
through friendships, and forsome reason people are People
seem to think that they have tochoose sides in a divorce case.
(30:04):
I'm either the wife's friends orthe husband's friend.
It's hard for people tounderstand that you can continue
your friendship with bothpeople.
It's not you're not a traitorbecause you continue your
friendship.
But many people think that way.
In divorce cases, it's it'slife-changing for them.
And you have an opportunity.
My view is that I have anopportunity to help somebody in
(30:27):
the most significant legalevent, maybe the most
significant social event, themost significant financial event
that they will ever face intheir lives.
And so that is an extreme amountof responsibility, one that I've
always taken very seriously.
It requires study, it requirespreparation, it requires a lot
(30:49):
of skills, a lot of trialskills, a lot of research
skills, a lot of writing skillsthat all have to come together
that in so many other areas ofthe law are omitted.
Many transaction lawyerswouldn't begin to know how to
try a lawsuit.
But we do transactions all thetime.
And the end of the day, mostdivorcers are settled through
contracts.
So we're drafting contracts.
(31:11):
Many times there's significantfinancial issues involved,
retirement plans.
Well, we're not tax lawyers, butwe can point them in the right
direction, and we know the basicguidelines for dealing with a
lot of that.
So I like the diversity offamily law practice, the
different issues that you haveto address and the different uh
areas of law you have to studyand be become proficient at.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
You know, I reflect on times where I've gone through
emotional challenges, anddivorce is certainly an
emotional challenge.
And a lot of times you just needwise counsel.
And so it's a very rewardingarea of the law.
Would you not agree?
SPEAKER_05 (31:49):
Aaron Powell I certainly would.
And you mentioned counseling.
That's that's so much a part ofwhat we do.
People don't understand thatit's not all about the
litigation.
It's about avoiding litigationin many and tamping down the
fires.
And divorce law, you'll seeexplosion after explosion of
emotion.
(32:09):
It's good to tell people on thefront end, you know, this is how
it's going to be.
There's going to be lots ofexplosions, and we tamp down
those fires and try to make gooddecisions.
I've seen brilliant businessmenwho have no problem making any
tough decision in business thatcannot make a decision in a
(32:31):
divorce case, or they make baddecisions, or they want to make
a bad decision.
It's our job to help them makegood decisions in tough times.
SPEAKER_01 (32:40):
Absolutely.
You know, when fifty percent ofmarriages end in divorce, folks
need to know they're lawyerslike me and you that are out
there and want to bring hope toa very, very difficult
situation.
SPEAKER_05 (32:54):
They need to see that there is light at the end
of the tunnel.
And so many clients say, I'llnever get married again.
Yes, you will.
Here's why.
They don't want to believe it,but they'll call me later.
You're not gonna believe it.
I'm a the most wonderful person.
I told you.
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
Isn't that so wonderful?
Okay, if you're listening today,have faith in our judicial
system.
I should have pointed out,Richard, that you're a former
president of the bar, and so youhave led the way.
Lawyers are here to help you.
And if you're going through adifficult time, recognize if
(33:31):
it's a family issue, there areemotions involved, but there are
lawyers like Richard that areout there to help you.
One final say.
SPEAKER_05 (33:39):
Well, thank you.
I enjoyed doing this.
Uh huh.
Uh we kind of did it off thecuff, but I enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:45):
Thanks so much for joining us.
SPEAKER_02 (33:47):
Thank you.com.
Free on the elphonic production.
Polephonic.com.
SPEAKER_00 (00:18):
One in four kids live in poverty.
SPEAKER_03 (00:23):
One in five food pride.
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
Build collaboration and build hope with those who
are struggling.
Hello and welcome back to theMississippi Bar Convention in
(00:48):
Sandestin.
And I have got my good friend,Judge David McCarty.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_03 (00:56):
Thank you so much, Justice.
It's such an honor to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (00:59):
You are one of my very, very favorite lawyers.
Don't tell anybody else.
And the reason is because Iremember when you practice law
and you practice with such apassion about doing the right
thing.
And really, that's what all ofus are about.
SPEAKER_03 (01:17):
Yes, ma'am.
In the best possible day,Justice, and thank you for
saying that.
I loved being a lawyer, servedas a lawyer for 14 years until I
was elected to the Court ofAppeals in the fall of 2018.
Moving from somebody who wasmeeting with people every day.
I had a little bitty law officein downtown Jackson, meeting
with people every day, talkingto clients on the phone every
(01:37):
day, being in court with peopleevery day.
And so it's been an adjustmentover the years.
I'll say that.
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
No doubt.
You know, I'm reminded beforeyou went on to the Court of
Appeals, you did a CLE for ourappellate judges.
And you talked about how nervousyou were going before the court.
SPEAKER_03 (02:06):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (02:07):
And talked about how, you know, after it, you
could wring the sweat out ofyour shirt.
And I'm thinking, bless hisheart.
I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_03 (02:15):
Do you know, Justice, this is one of the
things because you were on thecourt for many years before I
got elected, and and knowing howyou treated people made such an
impact on me because noteverybody is that way.
Not every judge is thinking withempathy and care for the
advocates before them, notbecause they're not good judges,
(02:35):
but because there's so manyother things going on.
But you always centered yourrespect for people, your respect
for how people were treated inand out of the courtroom.
And I love that so much becauseI found it tough to argue before
nine constitutional officers.
I found it very intimidating.
I found it thrilling, but it wasa challenge.
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
Well, and you know, at the end of the day, we all
just wanted to get it right.
And I know that's how y'all arenow.
When we would get out there, ifwe were all falling out, you
could bet that we had studiedthe material and were ready.
You may be nervous, but therewere times where we were nervous
because we just wanted to get itright.
SPEAKER_03 (03:18):
That's the burden that I that I love so much that
I've been so privileged to seeand experience myself because
for lawyers, there's just thispanel of people wearing black
robes, and we literally sitabove the courtroom.
This is not to intimidate perse, but to show that you're
presiding over this arena ofjustice.
And knowing now how much weworry and sweat to get the
(03:41):
details right and to make surewe get the right result, that
gives me so much hope for whatuh our judiciary does for the
people in Mississippi and forwhere our j our judiciary is
headed.
As you know, Justice Sys is the30th anniversary of the Court of
Appeals.
So we were founded, thelegislature created us, and we
went into operation in 1995.
(04:03):
We had a severe backlog at theMississippi Supreme Court, not
because they weren't workinghard, but because the number of
appeals had exceeded what anynine people could do in a year.
So there were a thousand appealsa year starting in 1985, running
through 2005.
Nine people cannot do that muchwork.
(04:23):
So we like to think that we'reworking hard to continue to be a
great backstop for the SupremeCourt and a thing to help people
achieve justice in Mississippi.
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
As we talk to folks at this podcast, we want them to
know about the hope inMississippi, but I keep it as
confidence in your judiciary.
And so I've never met a perfectjudge.
I was not a perfect judge.
And so for those that are doencounter the judicial system,
there is a very independentreview of what judges do.
SPEAKER_03 (04:59):
Oh, absolutely.
And the best thing to justice,in my view, the Mississippi
Supreme Court has nine people,the Court of Appeals has ten.
And so we come from allbackgrounds, all different
faiths.
We are now, as of this year,with the election of the
honorable Amy Lasseter St.
Hay from Moss Point, there arefive men, there are five women,
(05:21):
and no two men are alike, no twowomen are alike.
So we've got people from theDelta, people from the Gulf
Coast, people from Tupelo,people from Jackson.
So every type of people, wecheck each other.
So I'm a 50-year-old white manwho grew up in Alabama.
Whether I think I have blindspots, I'm also only five foot
(05:42):
nine.
So there's only so much I cansee.
Well, that's why my presidingjudge, Virginia Carleton,
originally of Columbia, she nowlives in Jackson, is such a
great helper to me and awonderful mentor to me.
She was in the military justicebeam for over 20 years.
She served there with her withher husband, Dr.
Carleton.
(06:02):
Dedicated public servants,dedicated uh servants to the
United States.
She has different views onthings than me.
She has more experiences thanme.
And so when I don't know how todo something, I can walk down
the hallway and say, Judge, howwould you do this?
How does this work?
That to me is when we see uhdemocracy in action, when we see
(06:24):
our court system reallyflourish, when people begin to
learn from each other and listento each other.
SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
Folks out there need to be reassured that the judges
that they elect, we arecommitted to doing the right
thing, not what we want, butfollowing the law and the rule
of law.
SPEAKER_03 (06:42):
Absolutely.
The best thing in the world forme is having her, having other
people from different ages andwalks of life who I can say, how
do you read this?
Do we see this the same way?
Am I doing this right?
And then to we if I'm not,someone can write a dissent and
tell me, hey, you really gotthis wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (07:02):
Trust me, I know how that goes.
I want to shift gears just alittle bit.
You talked about that yourupbringing is different, but you
and I have spent a good bit oftime together talking about
family.
And one thing that we want to dois talk to people about hope in
Mississippi and encourage youngpeople to make a difference and
adults as well, to bring alongfolks as you move, slow down
(07:25):
long enough to encourage them.
So let's talk about your past,how people have worked with you,
and then how you get to do thatsame thing.
SPEAKER_03 (07:33):
You know, Justice, I am a combination of my parents,
my grandparents, my aunts, myuncles.
But for them, I would not beallowed to be here with you at
the bar convention and Dustinsharing about this.
You've heard a lot about mymama.
She was a homemaker.
She reared two children.
That was a full-time job, by theway.
(07:54):
And that's a job.
My dad was a coal miner.
We lived on the west side ofBirmingham, and like his dad, he
worked for U.S.
Steel.
There's a long history of coalmining in Alabama, in North
Alabama, and that's what mygrandfather did.
My great-grandfather.
I still have an uncle who's whoworks over in Concord, Alabama,
underground.
That's a tough life.
(08:15):
These were people who workedevery day.
He was 500 feet underground.
My mom was doing her best toparent us and teach us how to
read.
She was insistent that we learnhow to read by the time we were
four.
So we had kindergarten inAlabama.
Some of my friends inMississippi didn't have that,
but which we do have universalkindergarten now.
(08:35):
But by the time we got toschool, my sister and I could
read, write, do a little bit ofmath.
But that shaped us so much,Justice.
Every time we we went to thesame church as my grandparents,
Sandusky Baptist, which is stillthere in Sandusky, Alabama.
And then nearly every Sundayafter church, we would go to my
grandparents' house who livedthree miles from us.
(08:58):
This was just what life was tome.
Not everybody gets that.
I'm keenly aware of that as Iage, that I'm a product of
having my grandfather teach meout in the backyard.
My grandmother babysit me, andshe was a wonderful, thoughtful,
she's now passed on, but that'swhere I probably got my moral
(09:18):
core from was my grandmother,Dorothy Wynell McCarty.
SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
Ah.
My mother was Dorothy as well.
Let's talk just a minute.
Most of us were not born with asilver spoon in our mouth.
We know what it's like to workhard.
And when you go before a judge,you can be confident that we're
just like everybody else.
SPEAKER_03 (09:38):
Yes.
Yes.
I think that's so importantbecause we literally wear the
robe to obscure our identity, tosay we're part of something
larger.
I'm no longer when I put my robeon, I'm no longer David McCarty,
who lives in Jackson,Mississippi.
I'm judge of the Court ofAppeals.
It's a privilege to do that, butI still have with me my
(09:59):
experiences in my life.
If you've got a panel of us andyou've got Judge Carleton in the
middle, this is a recent panel.
You have Judge Carlton in themiddle, you've got Judge John M.
Finger who lives in Brandon.
I'm gonna out him just as healso grew up in Alabama.
There's a few of us runningaround.
But you've got with JudgeCarlton, you have somebody who
(10:19):
literally was raising childrenon military basis in Germany
when she was deployed, wholiterally was deployed to Iraq.
You've got Judge Mfinger wholiterally chopped cotton when he
was little and coached footballwhen he was in law school where
he could make his tuition.
You've got somebody like me thatworked in strip pits in North
Alabama that used to operate afront-end loader.
(10:42):
Those experiences are part ofwho you have.
Yes, we're trained legalprofessionals.
Judge Mfinger is anextraordinary wealth of
information because he served asa circuit judge for 10 years and
ranking in Madison beforejoining the Court of Appeals.
But we have that in us.
And so I always want people toremember that we are people a
little bit.
(11:02):
And I remember when me tellingyou that I would sweat so I
would sweat through my shirt.
You know, that's why I alwayswore a blue suit, dark blue,
dark black.
It doesn't show the sweat.
SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
Well, I'm proud of you.
You're doing great on the Courtof Appeals.
One other thing, I have noticedhow you bring folks along with
you, you law students that youteach, you bring them along,
challenge people out there, notjust lawyers and judges, but the
average person.
You talked about how blessed youwere to have family, but not
(11:34):
everybody's that blessed.
No, man.
Challenge the folks to sharehope throughout Mississippi.
SPEAKER_03 (11:39):
Y'all, please, so much.
Think about the thingssometimes.
Just take a minute.
I I've started to do thisseveral years ago.
I keep a gratitude journal.
Every night before I go to bed,I write down a minimum of three
things that I'm thankful for.
And there are times when what Iwrite down, I may have had a
hard day, a hard day at work,hard day on the bench, but there
(11:59):
are times when I write down thatI'm thankful that my mom was
there for me.
I'm thankful that I can call mydad, who turns 75 in a couple of
months, a couple of weeks.
I'm thankful I can call him foradvice now.
Not everybody gets that.
And for us to remember thatother people don't always have
the things that we get right nowor that we had growing up.
(12:21):
You know, Mississippi is themost beautiful, special,
wonderful place I have ever beenin my life, which is why it's my
home.
But it is a place where we havesome deep inequality.
We have challenges to education,challenges to health care.
This is not to say that we'rebad.
It's to say that we haveobstacles and we can fight
(12:42):
through.
But not everybody gets the samethings you do.
And so please remember somebodyin that family, it's gonna be
their first time going tocollege.
Somebody in that family, it'sgonna be their first time going
to law school.
Somebody in that family hasnever met a lawyer.
They haven't met a judge.
And and just remember that, notwhere you can put on airs or act
in a way that you wouldn't, butto be thoughtful and go, how am
(13:05):
I going to interact with thisperson and share myself with
them and let them in?
One of my favorite things of alltime, and and I never met Willie
Morris, the great writer fromYazoo City, but I had a lot of
friends who did.
And when he he would say that,you know, Mississippi is not a
state, it's a club.
And that can go a lot ofdifferent ways, negative,
positive, but but for me,Justice, if it is a club, and I
(13:28):
think you might be right, then Ithink it's incumbent on me to
make sure the door is open.
unknown (13:32):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (13:33):
And to bring people in and to tell them, this is the
professor at Mississippi Statewho helped me.
This is the professor atMississippi College who taught
me.
This is the judge or Justice DonBeam who encouraged me and was
kind and loving to me.
And I want to be able to do forpeople what you always did for
me in my career.
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
Well, I can't thank you enough for sharing with us.
You've been a huge curencourager to my son, and I want
to point that out as we close.
SPEAKER_03 (13:58):
I love Sam.
Good man.
SPEAKER_01 (14:00):
You're gonna be a daddy in a few days.
Thank you.
Thank you for the folks that arelistening.
Stop and think how you can sharehope today.
Thanks so much.
SPEAKER_02 (14:13):
Hope, Mississippi, is your salvation.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Hello and welcome to the Mississippi Bar Convention.
You just never know who you'regonna meet at the Bar
Convention.
And I met Jay McDaniel.
Tell the tell the folks outthere hello.
SPEAKER_04 (14:32):
Good morning.
Jay McDaniel, executive directorof the Mississippi Gaming
Commission.
It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
It's great to have you.
And you have a legacy of lawyersand judges in your family.
Can you just tell a little bitabout yourself and your family?
SPEAKER_04 (14:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
I grew up in uh Brandon,Mississippi.
Uh my father was an attorney.
He practiced as a judge for mostof his career.
At some point, he was also aU.S.
attorney.
He had me coming here to thisconvention when I was a little
child.
I loved it.
Kind of groomed me.
He he told me not to become anattorney, but uh despite his
advice, I did, and I'm glad Idid, and I think he's glad I
(15:08):
did.
But yeah, so my father is wellknown in Rankin County and
around the state, and so I wentto Mississippi College School of
Law and still work and live inthe Jackson area.
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
Tell me, what brought you to the law?
I know you grew up coming to theBar Convention and you knew your
dad was a lawyer, but why be alawyer?
SPEAKER_04 (15:26):
Like I said, he worked for the federal
government, worked as a judgefor the state.
And I I thought that I wanted todo something like that, whether
it was a prosecutor or a judge.
And so undergrad, though, hesaid, go get you a degree, try
something else first.
So I got an accounting degree,practiced for a few years in
accounting, and then decided togo back.
I was about 30 years old.
I said, you know, I really, lawis just, I love it.
I got to know it even as anaccountant.
(15:46):
I enrolled at MississippiCollege School of Law and I
thought I was going to do thepublic servant thing.
I did practice with a law firmfor about three years, and then
this job with the MississippiGaming Commission came open.
I went back into that and I washis deputy director for a few
years.
What I found was my law degreewas crucial in that role, and
it's crucial in my role nowbecause even if you're not
(16:07):
practicing law or in court, thethe legal questions that come up
every day, you know, the ethicalquestions, the things that law
school and law practice groomyfor really set up well for this
job.
So I'm glad I did it.
SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
In part, we're talking to possible law
students.
And I'm reminded you had anaccounting degree, I had a
business degree.
But you know, when people aretrying to figure out what do I
need to major in if I want to goto law school, there is a
variety of avenues.
And certainly your accountingdegree makes a difference,
right?
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_04 (16:39):
Sure, great point.
I mean, I've worked with lawyersthat were engineers, some even
doctors decide to go to lawschool.
So, you know, depending on whatkind of practice you're gonna
do, there's an all manner ofbasis that can help you.
But I do think accounting,finance, business, certainly if
you're gonna run your own lawfirm, those things come, you
know, they they joke sometimeslawyers can make poor business
managers or doctors the sameway.
(17:00):
But just having that basis ofanything, because no matter what
you practice, you're gonna comeacross a case at some point that
has those kind of issues, uhfinancial issues or, you know,
the issues that maybe anengineer might encounter in a
big complex litigation case.
So I would encourage if even ifa student looks at law school in
the future, think of a of a goodbase major because it doesn't
(17:22):
really matter.
It's gonna help you, I guaranteeyou, somewhere down the down the
line.
SPEAKER_01 (17:26):
And you know, being a lawyer is so flexible.
Not everybody is that PerryMason that runs in the courtroom
and has that surprise witness.
But we are trained to thinkanalytically, to think from a
standpoint of right and wrongand ethics.
Can you speak to that certainlyas the gaming commission?
SPEAKER_04 (17:48):
Yes, absolutely.
I mean, one of the mostimportant things for a lawyer is
to look.
You you've got to be an advocatefor your client and fight your
client's case, but you've got tolook at all sides of it, because
that helps you with yourargument.
You know, what is this, what isthis opponent thinking?
You know, where are they comingat this from?
And and as director of thegaming commission, that's what I
have to do.
We we have laws and rules wehave to enforce, but sometimes
(18:09):
there's gray areas in there.
Sometimes we have to makedeterminations, so we have to
resolve ambiguities.
And so it's very important tolook at things analytically and
say, you know, what was thelegislature thinking when they
wrote this law 20 years ago?
Uh, what has changed since then?
And when you're in practice,that comes up a lot.
You're dealing a lot of timeswith laws and cases that were
resolved in the 80s and the 90s,and you have to look at, well,
(18:30):
well, how would this applytoday?
So a good analytical mind andbeing able to look at things
from all points of view and thenadvocate with that, you know, in
mind.
SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
So when we're talking about hope, Mississippi,
one great quality in Mississippiis that our word is our bond,
whether that be in a casino, ifyou're placing a bet, you know
that the rules are beingfollowed or in business.
So could you just speak to that,the importance of our word being
(19:00):
our bond and that the justicesystem ensures that?
SPEAKER_04 (19:03):
That's a great point.
Your your word is your bond.
Your reputation is everything.
You're not gonna win every case.
You're gonna have times you getknocked down, but stay true to
yourself.
You know, remember why you gotinto this profession when you
took that oath and and justcarry that through in your
mission.
And like you said, no matterwhat area you're working in, I
really never thought I'd be agaming regulator.
(19:24):
But all of the things I didbefore that prepared me for
this, and I can draw on what mydad did, the things I learned
growing up, the things I wastaught in law school.
But keeping that hope, as youmentioned, that no matter where
I am, as long as I'm true tomyself, apply the law with
dignity, honestly, you're gonnabe well regarded and you're
gonna you're gonna come out onthe right end end of things.
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
Absolutely.
Let's talk to Mississippians outthere.
You know, we have lots ofchallenges.
One in four of our kids live inpoverty, one in five are food
deprived.
And certainly gaming, let's talkabout that.
Gaming does play a role inhelping our state overcome,
right?
You have profits that go to helpus.
SPEAKER_04 (20:05):
Absolutely.
I mean, one of the reasonsgaming, well, the the reason
really, gaming was passed in in1990 and 1991 was a tax revenue
generator.
You had an entertainmentindustry that could benefit the
state from a tourism standpoint.
But on the other end, those taxrevenues go to a state that has
had trouble raising taxes.
So our hope is that the peoplethat play are playing with money
(20:28):
they can afford to play with.
SPEAKER_01 (20:29):
Amen.
SPEAKER_04 (20:30):
We do point to problem gambling resources when
that's not the case, becauseunfortunately that happens.
But we try and identify that andmake sure that the people
playing are doing it becausethey have the funds.
That money that's won by theproperties, not only do you have
the tax revenue, but they'rereinvesting.
They're hiring people in ourcoastal and river counties,
they're putting money back intophilanthropy, things like that.
(20:51):
Also on a local, city, andcounty level, you know, going to
schools and infrastructure.
So it is an industry that wewant to do right.
We want it to do right becausewe want it to make money for our
state.
And then it is up to thelegislature and the local city
and county to make sure thosefunds get to the right place.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
You know, we heard Governor Haley Barber speak
yesterday.
And after Katrina, the questionwas, oh my goodness, what can we
do to make sure that gamingcontinues because Mississippi
relies on that revenue to helpmake a difference.
SPEAKER_04 (21:22):
That's right.
When Katrina, it wiped out thecoastal uh, you know, you had a
lot of families, a lot ofbusinesses suffering, and the
the casinos were not immune tothat.
Every one of them was shut downfor months.
And every month they're closed.
That's months of hundreds ofmillions of tax revenue not
coming in.
So Governor Barber and theleadership at that time did a
great job.
They changed the rules a littlebit, said, you know, you can
(21:43):
shore up your casinos, you canmove them inland if you want,
and they came back better.
As much of the coast did, Ithink uh it has come back
better.
And uh and his leadership, Iapplaud the leaders that were in
place in that time.
And and God forbid we everencounter another disaster like
that.
I feel strong that ourleadership's day would act the
same way.
Do whatever it can to rebuildbetter.
SPEAKER_01 (22:05):
So, and a final note, we want to encourage
Mississippians.
If you're young, make a goal tomake a difference in
Mississippi.
If you've reached middle age orolder, reach back and encourage
others.
Can you speak to that?
SPEAKER_04 (22:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
That's what I would encouragethose.
I like I said, I went to lawschool when I was 30.
There were probably times in mymid-20s when I felt like I was
in a rut.
I was like, is this it?
I, you know, I've I've found mydegree.
I'm doing, I wasn't really doingsomething I enjoyed.
And but what I did was say, youknow, I can get myself out of
this.
I it's not too late to go backto school.
And yeah, just always know thatyou you've got your brain,
(22:44):
you've got, you've got a smartmind, you've got a, you know, a
heart for something, passion forsomething.
It's never too late to go backand do it.
And so just never feel likethere's not an opportunity for
you.
There are people out there thatwill help you get it.
Just uh make sure, like yousaid, look back.
What did I want 10 years ago?
And if I'm not doing it now, whyam I not doing it?
And uh and find a way to do it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
Absolutely.
And you know, there's joy inpulling people along.
I've I've experienced this atthe Bar convention as I've seen
people that I've helped alongthe way.
So we encourage folks to reachback and bring people forward.
SPEAKER_04 (23:17):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
Okay, thank you so much for joining me.
I told you it would be punished.
It's great.
SPEAKER_04 (23:21):
It's a pleasure.
SPEAKER_01 (23:22):
And I encourage the folks that are listening, make
hope happen wherever you are.
Hope, Mississippi, is yoursalvation.
Welcome back.
I am so glad to have my friendRichard Roberts here today.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_05 (23:41):
Thank you.
Nice to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
Richard and I, we have practiced law together,
right?
SPEAKER_05 (23:46):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:47):
I have known you in so many different ways.
Could you just tell the folks alittle bit about yourself and
the folks that helped you alongthe way to become the person
that you are?
SPEAKER_05 (24:01):
Well, I started practicing law 49 years ago.
I did well in school, so I wasable to go basically where I
wanted to go.
I went with a firm that uh didemployment discrimination
representing big companies.
And after several years of that,I decided to go into private
practice by myself, and I was asolo practitioner for many
years, and then started takingon associates and partners, and
(24:25):
now I have uh two partners,David Bridges and Jennifer
Woidston.
We practice exclusively familylaw in Ridgeland, Mississippi.
Completely different from what Istarted out doing.
If you had told me in law schoolI was going to be a divorce
lawyer, I I would have told youyou're crazy.
But uh that's how things workedout, and it's been my area of
(24:45):
service, and that's how I lookat it.
People who have helped me alongthe way, guys, are too many to
name, but certainly a lot of mylaw professors, Gough Abbott,
cops to mine, uh just so many.
And then people I practice lawwith, people I practice law
against, judges.
I remember when you werechancellor, I remember when you
were chairman of the family lawsection, just all kind of grown
(25:07):
up in that.
So there's so many people thatare influencing us as we
progress in our law practice.
SPEAKER_01 (25:13):
You know, we're here at the Bar Convention and lay
people sometimes don'tunderstand the relationship that
lawyers have.
It's a it's a relationship oftrust and open communication.
You need to know that when I'mrepresenting someone, I'm
representing the truth.
And I don't know about you, butalong the way I've developed my
(25:34):
short list of a few folks Icouldn't trust, but there's so
many more that I would take whatthey say to the bank.
SPEAKER_05 (25:42):
It's a it's a small community in the family law
section.
And so it takes a long time togain trust and it can be lost
quickly.
So you have to guard thatbecause your reputation is very
important.
You know, Proverbs says a goodname is to be valued in silver
and gold.
So you have to take that toheart.
SPEAKER_01 (26:02):
So when we talk about the bar in particular,
folks need to know that we dovalue our character and that
it's important that we alwaysdeal in an honest and fair
manner.
And that's the key to ourjustice system, isn't it?
SPEAKER_05 (26:19):
I agree completely.
SPEAKER_01 (26:21):
You know, as a judge, I I knew who I could
trust and who I couldn't.
So you want that lawyer that hascredibility with the court.
And we would just encouragefolks to understand that that we
may have coffee together, but atthe end of the day, our goal is
to do the right thing and toadvocate for our clients.
SPEAKER_05 (26:41):
That's right.
That's right.
And professionalism is so much apart of it.
Advocacy is professionalism at ahigh level where you can
advocate for your client, youcan argue your legal positions,
it does not get personal.
It does not there's no need foranimosity.
It's your position, yourclient's position that you're
(27:04):
advocating for, you're trying toadvance.
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
Let's talk about family law, because that's a
very unique area.
And what brought you to thatarea?
SPEAKER_05 (27:13):
I went out on my own.
Whatever came across thethreshold, I took in.
You know, I call myself athreshold lawyer, whatever I
did.
And I had never been in achancery court, except one time
I went down to Kapaya County,which carried the chancellor
down there, to get an injunctionand a strike.
So I had never been in statecourt.
(27:34):
All of my work was in federalcourt.
And I liked federal court.
I did federal court litigation.
It's very rules-based, andeverybody knows what the rules
of the game are.
Now, back then, the Mississippirules of civil procedure were
just being adopted, finiterules, very much like the
federal rules of civilprocedure.
So it was easier to learn thatthan all of the myriad rules
(27:58):
that existed in state courtpractice for so many years.
Matter of fact, when I firststarted in practice, many of the
older lawyers would say, let'sjust practice this on the under
the old rules, okay?
So uh there was a learning curvethere, but I enjoyed it.
And, you know, you do one familylaw case, one divorce case, and
(28:18):
then they refer you to somebodyelse, and then you're doing more
than one, and then you're doingmany more, and it soon got to be
about a third of my lawpractice.
I was doing a generallitigation, still doing
employment law on both sides,and then more and more family
law.
But I enjoyed the family law.
(28:39):
And I was representing banks andhospitals and so forth.
I was working with presidentsand HR directors and vice
presidents, and the litigationwas serious.
But at the end of the day, itwasn't their life, it wasn't
their money, it wasn't theirchildren, it was impersonal in a
(28:59):
lot of ways.
And employment law was a verycontentious area of the law back
in the 70s and early 80s.
So it was it was a hardpractice, but it was still not
personal.
Now, family law is completelydifferent.
Some of my best friends, trulybest friends, are former clients
of mine.
(29:20):
We've been in the foxholetogether and we're just formed
fast friendships.
And when you're representing afamily law client, for most
people it is the mostsignificant legal event that's
ever going to happen in theirlife.
They may have been in a loanclosing, they may have had a
little car wreck along the way,but and it could be a serious
(29:41):
car wreck.
But for most people, a divorceis life changing.
It has effect not only on theimmediate family, the children,
both the spouses, the nieces,the uncles, the aunts, the
brothers, the sisters, thegrandparents but it resonates
through friendships, and forsome reason people are People
seem to think that they have tochoose sides in a divorce case.
(30:04):
I'm either the wife's friends orthe husband's friend.
It's hard for people tounderstand that you can continue
your friendship with bothpeople.
It's not you're not a traitorbecause you continue your
friendship.
But many people think that way.
In divorce cases, it's it'slife-changing for them.
And you have an opportunity.
My view is that I have anopportunity to help somebody in
(30:27):
the most significant legalevent, maybe the most
significant social event, themost significant financial event
that they will ever face intheir lives.
And so that is an extreme amountof responsibility, one that I've
always taken very seriously.
It requires study, it requirespreparation, it requires a lot
(30:49):
of skills, a lot of trialskills, a lot of research
skills, a lot of writing skillsthat all have to come together
that in so many other areas ofthe law are omitted.
Many transaction lawyerswouldn't begin to know how to
try a lawsuit.
But we do transactions all thetime.
And the end of the day, mostdivorcers are settled through
contracts.
So we're drafting contracts.
(31:11):
Many times there's significantfinancial issues involved,
retirement plans.
Well, we're not tax lawyers, butwe can point them in the right
direction, and we know the basicguidelines for dealing with a
lot of that.
So I like the diversity offamily law practice, the
different issues that you haveto address and the different uh
areas of law you have to studyand be become proficient at.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
You know, I reflect on times where I've gone through
emotional challenges, anddivorce is certainly an
emotional challenge.
And a lot of times you just needwise counsel.
And so it's a very rewardingarea of the law.
Would you not agree?
SPEAKER_05 (31:49):
Aaron Powell I certainly would.
And you mentioned counseling.
That's that's so much a part ofwhat we do.
People don't understand thatit's not all about the
litigation.
It's about avoiding litigationin many and tamping down the
fires.
And divorce law, you'll seeexplosion after explosion of
emotion.
(32:09):
It's good to tell people on thefront end, you know, this is how
it's going to be.
There's going to be lots ofexplosions, and we tamp down
those fires and try to make gooddecisions.
I've seen brilliant businessmenwho have no problem making any
tough decision in business thatcannot make a decision in a
(32:31):
divorce case, or they make baddecisions, or they want to make
a bad decision.
It's our job to help them makegood decisions in tough times.
SPEAKER_01 (32:40):
Absolutely.
You know, when fifty percent ofmarriages end in divorce, folks
need to know they're lawyerslike me and you that are out
there and want to bring hope toa very, very difficult
situation.
SPEAKER_05 (32:54):
They need to see that there is light at the end
of the tunnel.
And so many clients say, I'llnever get married again.
Yes, you will.
Here's why.
They don't want to believe it,but they'll call me later.
You're not gonna believe it.
I'm a the most wonderful person.
I told you.
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
Isn't that so wonderful?
Okay, if you're listening today,have faith in our judicial
system.
I should have pointed out,Richard, that you're a former
president of the bar, and so youhave led the way.
Lawyers are here to help you.
And if you're going through adifficult time, recognize if
(33:31):
it's a family issue, there areemotions involved, but there are
lawyers like Richard that areout there to help you.
One final say.
SPEAKER_05 (33:39):
Well, thank you.
I enjoyed doing this.
Uh huh.
Uh we kind of did it off thecuff, but I enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01 (33:45):
Thanks so much for joining us.
SPEAKER_02 (33:47):
Thank you.com.
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