March 20, 2025 • 62 mins
In this episode of Hope Unlocked, Kristin Kurtz speaks with Joe'l Povolni about stepping out in faith, navigating tough seasons, and finding strength through God's presence. Joe'l shares her personal journey, including challenges like moving cross-country, stepping into leadership, and learning to trust God in the midst of adversity. She emphasizes the importance of shifting your mindset, relying on God's promises, and allowing Him to transform your heart. Her story encourages listeners to embrace the hard seasons, knowing that God is with them every step of the way. If you're facing challenges today, remember: God is faithful, and there are treasures to be discovered in the pressing. Listen in for powerful insights on courage, faith, and finding purpose in the tough moments.
Joe'l's contact info:
Instagram: @joellepovolni
Facebook: FaithCaffeine
Website: joelpovolni.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast.
I'm your host, kristen Kurtz,and I'm also the founder of New
Wings Coaching.
I help and empower wildheartedand adventurous women of faith
feeling caged and stuck, unlocktheir true purpose and potential
, break free from limitationsand thrive with confidence,
courage and hope.
If you're curious to learn moreabout coaching with me, head to
newwingscoachingnet and be sureto explore the show notes for
(00:38):
ways to connect with me further.
Get ready to dive in as weuncover empowering keys and
insights in this episode.
So tune in and let's unlockhope together.
Welcome to the Hope Unlockedpodcast.
I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host.
I pray this episode is like aholy IV of hope for your soul.
Please help me.
Welcome Joelle Pavolni to theshow.
I'm very excited to have herhere today.
(01:00):
We actually met through socialmedia and through a conversation
.
I was just like hey, do youwant to share your story on Hope
Unlocked?
And I'm very excited for her toshare more about herself and
her journey, and I know she'sdefinitely going to infuse some
hope and joy to the audiencetoday.
So would you be open to sharingmore about yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Absolutely, kristen.
Thank you so much for having meon your podcast.
It's an honor and I'm just sothankful for God's grace in our
lives and how he works and evenhow he connected us through
social media.
And you're right, social mediacan be it can be a wild place,
but God is working, even onsocial media, so that's so fun.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Absolutely it's.
It's interesting because I knowlike obviously we don't want to
spend all our time there.
Right, it's good to be inpublic and with real people, but
there are some really good realpeople around the world that we
can find on social media, rightgood real people around the
world that we can find on socialmedia, right, absolutely, and,
and they can be such anencouragement.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
You know what you look for, you find, and so I
feel like when I am on socialmedia, I am always looking for
other like minded people that Ithink, okay, they are, you know,
they're doing something to makea difference in the world.
I want to, you know, have thatinfused in my life, and so
that's kind of my goal withsocial media is either infuse
good or find people who are andand connect with them.
(02:35):
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
It's interesting, I feel like I'm stopped here for a
moment on social media becausethere's a lot of people that are
like I'm just leaving.
It's like, well, what's causingyou to leave?
There's a beauty in socialmedia where we can snooze people
, we can unfriend.
If needed, you can block people.
(02:59):
Even I like to curate my feedto be positive and uplifting,
and it's kind of like youwouldn't go into a restaurant
that serves really bad foodunless you didn't know.
Right, if you continue to like,focus and keep company with
(03:22):
just a lot of toxic out there,it's going to infect you, right,
would you say.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, I think it is so wiseto be careful of the voices that
you're listening to and justknow the season that you're in
and what affects you.
I think sometimes we forget.
You know, especially, I tend tofeel things kind of deeply and
if I'm starting to feeluncomfortable or just have a
(03:51):
sense of, okay, I was on socialmedia for a few minutes and
there was no encouragement,there was no, I'm thinking okay,
I need to change who I'mfollowing, who I'm listening to,
because there really is a lotof good in the world.
There's still a lot of good onsocial media and if those of us
who have a heart to encourageothers, if we all leave because
of the bad, then what is thereleft?
(04:11):
You know, and I do trulybelieve, just like being in our
community and being a light forthe Lord.
You know, online we need to bea light as well and just try to
show others that, my goodness,there are things worth living
for and there are still peoplein the world who want to make a
difference.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yes, well, like, what does that look like for you
being on social media?
Then, like, have I know?
You said you're, as I can tell,like, with myself being a
feeler, just being, you know,it's easy to get affected, like
seeing the temperature out there.
Sometimes I actually purposelygo out and check the temperature
, even the comments of people,and I know this sounds silly,
(04:55):
but, um, because I am one who'slike, I'm a researcher, I love
to dig deep.
Um, I also like to see what thetemperature is out on their
streets and it's very surprisingat times to just see the
polarizing opinions out there.
But, like, what does that looklike for you, you know, being
(05:17):
able to encourage others and bethe light on social media?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I mean, I think for me.
You know, I, whenever I go onsocial media, I'm trying and I
will first of all say, ifanybody checks my social media,
I have not been as active in thelast couple of years merely
just because of how busy my lifehas been.
But I always, when I get on andif I'm posting something, I'm
(05:45):
just like, okay, I want this, Iwant to encourage somebody else,
I want to be able to make adifference and hopefully,
walking away from my time onsocial media myself, to be
encouraged and others.
But what I recognized when Iwas on social media a lot and
when I was using my platforms toreally challenge people in
their faith and to, just, youknow, help people to realize
(06:10):
that there is hope and there isalways more to it than what
you're seeing initially kind ofbeneath the surface.
Whenever I would get, you know,I don't know tough comments or
people that didn't appreciate it, I would kind of think to
myself, okay, I am making adifference.
Then, because if you never stirup any trouble and I'm not
(06:30):
saying that that's our intent Imean, when I go on social media,
I don't personally, I don'tfeel like arguing on social
media gets people anywhere.
But if you're speaking truthand you're trying to encourage
people and lift people up andthat stirs people up, it lets me
(06:52):
know that I'm probably doingthe right thing, because my
heart is always to serve peopleand lift people higher, and the
enemy is not going to appreciatethat Not at all.
Trust me.
So back when I used to do quitea few Facebook lives and things
like that and we get on and dolike some short teachings and
things, there were times thatpeople would get on and just say
rude things and try to throwyou off course and everything,
(07:15):
and I think that's just part ofit.
You sort of have to get a toughskin with social media but
honestly, we all have to gettough skin in life in general or
, or you know, we'll crumble.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
So what does that look like for you to?
You know, get tough skin andwhat does that, what does that
actually mean?
Somebody might be like whatdoes tough skin mean?
I'm just you never know.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, no, for me I am not, am not well, so it's kind
of contra.
This is gonna kind of what I'mgonna say is gonna contradict
itself.
But my father used to say thatI would argue with a fence post.
But, um, there is a very much apart of me who does not like to
(08:02):
fight unless I really need to.
So I can, even though inthrough years of leadership and
things like that I have I stepout, I'm, you know, have to lead
on Sundays, I work in the localchurch, all of that.
But at my heart or in my heart,and I'm really an introvert and
(08:22):
so I'm sort of like one whomeasures my energy.
It's like, okay, is this fightworth my time and effort?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yes, but God has a way.
No matter what your personalitytype is, no matter if you're an
extrovert or an introvert, nomatter what your Enneagram
number is, no matter what any ofthose things are, god is trying
to, I believe, build his peopleup strong in him.
And so that means that when theyou know attacks from the enemy
(08:52):
come, when just people arepeople and they say rude things
or they don't have the bestintentions towards you, we've
got to get strong or we willcrumble, we'll succumb to.
You know that emotional rollercoaster that we've all jumped on
, where we just let life take usfor this ride and we're up and
down with all the up and downs,and I definitely lived that way
(09:14):
for a period of my life, and I'mnot um, I there's still comes
and goes some now, but I'velearned that I can be more
steadfast and not jump on thatroller coaster, that I do have a
choice.
And so for me, being tough skinis more reminding myself of
God's promises and not feel likeyou know okay everything is
(09:37):
swirling around me and I'm dyingand the sky's falling and just
you know.
Falling apart because life willtry to rip you apart.
I mean life, human nature, theenemy.
Falling apart because life willtry to rip you apart, I mean
why?
Human nature, the enemy, all ofthe things I mean.
I remember a specific time, um,my husband and I we were in
Colorado.
Um, we felt like God had calledus to start a church there and
(10:02):
this was, oh goodness, like 1012years ago and we had.
Anyway, we just, obviously, ifyou're going to do anything for
the kingdom, you're going toface obstacles, you're going to
have fiery darts from the enemyand all of that.
And there was there is oneparticular person who I felt
(10:23):
like every week was always sortof coming against me and I
remember the Lord justchallenging me because I would
get so caught up in my feelingsand my emotions.
And the Lord just challenging meand saying I need you to read
the love chapter in Corinthiansand I need you to pour out love
(10:44):
as if you are receiving it fromthis person and not look at what
they're giving you and talkabout learning how to get tough
skin.
I mean, that does not feel good.
It doesn't feel good to be likequote unquote sort of like
slapped in the face weekly andGod telling you pour out love.
So now I look back on thatperiod of time and I'm actually
(11:10):
so thankful for that experiencebecause it taught me as I feel
like most of the experiences dowith the Lord, but they come at
you from different angles toreally trust the Lord and to not
operate out of my own feelingsand to know that he always has
something greater for us and wemight be praying for the
(11:34):
situation and whether he everchanges the person or not we
have no control over, but we dohave control over on allowing
him to change us.
And I became stronger throughgoing through that experience
and I'm so thankful for itbecause I don't necessarily like
to engage in those kinds offights, but God was teaching me
(11:55):
how to fight in new ways.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Fighting with love.
Wow, yes.
So what?
Like?
I'm curious like how did thatsituation turn out with that
person?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Um, that person did not change, but I changed.
Wow, wow, that's you know, andand it just really taught me a
lot.
It taught me that, as we'repraying for people, um, first of
all, in the word, it tells usto pray for our enemies.
And that's hard for people toswallow initially, especially if
(12:27):
you have somebody who hascaused trauma in your life or
it's much deeper than justsomebody who is constantly going
out of their way.
It feels like to offend you orto say you know, I don't like
you or don't you know, whateverthat is.
I know there are people whohave been hurt in tremendous
ways, but the thing that I'verealized about praying for your
(12:51):
enemies is number one if it doeschange them, I mean, that would
be the ultimate, because whywould we want anybody to go on
hurting people in the world?
But if it changes us and webecome a transformed person
because of it and we learn howto trust God with the results of
whatever he's doing in theirlife, because we can't control
(13:12):
that but if we just keep ourhearts open to what God's trying
to do in us, as hard as it isand I mean, my goodness, when I
first, you know, you hear theconcept of praying for your
enemies.
But then I heard a preachertalk about that.
This is more than just sayinglike this short little prayer
that you're sort of begrudginglysaying like Lord bless them.
(13:32):
I don't know if I really reallyfeel that way, but Lord bless
them, you know, to praying foryour enemy in a way that you're
you in the, in a way that youwould want your own family to be
prayed for, and realizing youknow, I heard somebody else say
and I want to say maybe this wasBob Goff that had said this,
(13:53):
but I was.
But I heard somebody else talkabout that when we pray for
people that are, I don't know,going astray, or maybe that
they're not, you know, whateverit is, it feels like an enemy to
us.
Maybe it, maybe it doesn't feellike an enemy, maybe it's just
people that rub us the wrong way.
I don't know what that lookslike in our lives, but when we
(14:15):
take time to pray for them, it'slike God saying thank you for
praying for my children becausethey're my son or daughter, just
like you are and you know itare.
I guess it stirs somethingwithin me, even though I don't
necessarily like it in themoment, but I think, man, how
much grace have I needed on thiswalk with the Lord?
You know, before I grew up inchurch, but I didn't always walk
(14:40):
in complete faith because Ididn't know God like I know him
now and I still have so much togrow, but I'm just like I need
so much grace.
And so now it's changed mymindset to think why wouldn't I
pray for them?
Because, man, how much do Istill need God every day?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I.
This is a huge key for somebodytoday.
Truly, I can imagine like I dothis for the one right.
So I'm imagining the one that'sjust like how do I implement
this?
How do I actually do this?
Like, how do I get into thatposture to be even able to do
this?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
You know, all I would know to say is, every time
another jab comes and I know,for me usually the initial
feeling is anger because, youknow, anger is sort of that top
emotion and then the hurtsunderneath and I definitely have
to get raw with the Lordbecause I'm not like, oh,
someone was nasty and now I feellike blessing them.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Right, that's what I was like.
What does it tangibly look likefor you to walk through this?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
It tangibly looks like.
You know, sitting down with theLord and saying this made me
angry and I feel pretty hatefultowards this person right now
and I don't like this.
I don't like what they're doingand sometimes just being honest
with the Lord and saying, Lord,I don't like what they're doing
and sometimes just being honestwith the Lord and saying, Lord,
you know, because sometimespeople hurt us and they're being
promoted in ways around us andthat can be difficult and really
(16:12):
getting raw with the Lord andsaying, Lord, I am going to go
back to your promises and thecharacter of who you are,
because I can't trust what I'mseeing.
I can't trust what I'm feelingand what I want to do is not
what I should do and just askingthe Lord to give me the right
heart posture.
And I think the underliningreason I can even do that is
(16:37):
because God blesses people whoare hungry and humble for Him.
If you're hungry, you have adesire for him to change you,
because you know that you can'tdevelop into who he's bringing
you to be if you can't be moldedand shaped through the
difficult seasons.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
And.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I just got this thing in me that's risen up over the
years that, like I wanteverything the Lord has for me
on this side of heaven.
I already know great things aregoing to be in eternity, but
all that he has for me on thisside of heaven, I don't want to
miss it.
So why would I allow thisperson?
And there's people you knowthey're different, they're going
to be people in differentseasons of our life.
(17:20):
There are going to rub us thewrong way in different, in
different seasons of our lifethat are going to rub us the
wrong way in different times andwe're going to have to learn.
You know, are their actionsworth me missing out on what God
has for me?
Or am I going to get really rawand open with the Lord and tell
him about the hurt, tell himabout the pain and then ask him
to shift my heart and to have aheart like his heart is all I
(17:46):
would know to say.
I mean, it's not a magicalthing, it's a God thing and it's
spending time with the Lord and, I think, just having the
underlying, knowing in yourspirit that if I do the right
thing before the Lord and thisis in your, you know.
This is at home.
This is doing the right thingwhen home.
This is doing the right thingwhen nobody knows.
(18:06):
You're doing the right thing.
And if I'm in the secret placewith the Lord and I am asking
him to shift me and to help meto forgive, help me know what
that looks like to walk outforgiveness.
Help me to learn to pray for myenemy, even when I want to
shoot my own fiery darts, letalone the enemy.
(18:29):
And just getting a vision, Ithink in our minds that man, if
I want to go where God wants totake me, this circumstance, this
person is not worth me notgetting where God has for me to
go.
I mean, it's a point you knowGod does want to reward his
children and you know, I thinksometimes Christians want to
(18:50):
stay away from like, oh well,I'm just getting.
You know we got to do this forthe right reason.
Sometimes you do things becauseyou know that God's going to
reward you and you know thathopefully he's going to
transform you along the way, butdoing it because you know
there's a reward.
I, and you know that hopefullyhe's going to transform you
along the way, but doing itbecause you know there's a
reward.
I don't think that's a badthing.
We teach children to obey theirparents and we reward them or
(19:13):
their consequences.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
When it's like that, saying like obedience equals
success, have you heard thatbefore?
Yes, like this is a absoluteobedience.
Uh, step right, because we andI've I've had to do this too in
my journey and it's almost likeI I'm just being real here.
It's kind of like you know thelittle kid when they're like
(19:36):
stomping, you're like really,yes, and then the heart shift
happens when you pray, when youbless others, when you step away
from all the hurt, all thefeelings, all of the like.
But why, me Right, did youexperience that, those moments?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I mean absolutely, and throwing fence before the
Lord is a real thing.
I mean David did it.
I, yes, I have.
I think that David did it.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I, yes, I have.
That's where Psalms came out of, I believe.
What did you say?
That's where Psalms came out of.
He's like this sucks, but God,like I always think of that.
I'm like okay, he did it, I cando it too.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Absolutely.
And sometimes yeah, I meansometimes I just want to scream
and say, lord, this is not fair.
And you know, because you knowwe have the tendency in our
humanness to look at others whoappear from the outside that
they're just floating along inlife.
We're thinking, lord, can Ijust have a piece of that please
(20:43):
?
But I don't know.
I think that being raw and openwith the Lord and throwing your
fit with him and then knowingthat he still loves you, I think
that is one of the mostbeautiful things is to realize
that man, even in our darkestmoments I mean many years ago,
my husband and I went through avery, very dark season where it
(21:04):
was 2008, the crash happened andmy husband's a graphic designer
and most of his clientele werechurches and non-profits, and so
when the crash happened andfinances got tight, you know,
most churches and non-profitswould stop paying for extra
things like design.
We had to close, my husband'scompany, lay off employees and
(21:29):
we ended up walking throughbankruptcy.
And it was the darkest time ofmy life that I had walked
through up to that time.
And you talk about throwing afit and just, and not only that,
just feeling shame and, likeyou, were walking through
something that a Christianshouldn't walk through.
(21:51):
And walking through that season, god taught me a couple of
things, but one of the thingsthat he taught me was there is
no dark place on this earth thathe will not go with his sons
and daughters.
Say that again there's no darkplace that God will not go with
(22:14):
his sons and daughters, nomatter how it makes you feel, no
matter how dark it is.
I realized in that season, youknow, there were times where I
mean frankly, my, it was myhusband.
We had to close down thebusiness.
He we lived in St Louis,missouri at the time, and he
began looking for work.
The only job that opened up wasin Loveland, colorado, and at
(22:37):
another Christian publishinghouse, and so he actually moved.
But we couldn't sell our houseimmediately.
It was up for sale but becauseof the crash, there were
foreclosures in our neighborhood.
So every month we were loweringthe price of our house to match
the foreclosure prices, becauseyou couldn't sell a house.
It took us 13 months to sellour home.
(22:59):
So my husband was physically inColorado.
I was physically in St Louisfor over a year with two small
children.
I had to close things down forhis business, go to the lawyer's
office by myself, do a lot ofthese things that just felt
really dark and shameful.
But I will tell you oneparticular there's really two,
(23:24):
actually there's really a lot,but I'll just focus in on this
one particular experience whereI was walking into the lawyer's
office and I just felt so muchshame and just like, okay, the
Lord's done with me, that's whatit felt like and just felt so
much darkness.
And you know that the enemy, hedoesn't play fair.
(23:44):
When you're already down, hejust comes along and kicks you
in the darkness.
And so I definitely felt thatway.
But when I walked into thelawyer's office, something
shifted.
They heard our story and theytook a look at the facts and
they looked at me and saidyou're the reason people like
you.
What you went through is whybankruptcy was created and they
(24:10):
were not believers.
But all of a sudden I just feltGod's peace, just come into the
room and just envelop me.
And I walked out of thatlawyer's office just with so
much peace.
I walked in, felt intimidation,felt shame, felt alone, just
(24:32):
felt like I was in the middle ofthe darkness and walked out
with so much peace.
And yet nothing had shifted,except for God's presence, came
in and shifted my perspective.
And I think often in life, nomatter what we're facing, we
just need to get in the presenceof God.
And yeah, I was in the lawyer'soffice.
Believe it or not, the presenceof God can show up anywhere.
(24:53):
And I think sometimes we forgetthat.
Yeah, we forget that.
You know God doesn't not go incertain places, but you know God
doesn't not go in certainplaces.
He sees his children, no matterwhere we are, and he can show
(25:14):
up in beautiful and amazing ways.
And when I walked out of thatoffice, I didn't know how I was
even going to pay the lawyerfees.
But within a short period oftime, my husband had called me
and he had been out to lunchthat day in Colorado and someone
had felt to give him a checkand it was for the exact amount
we needed.
And so, in the middle of thatdarkness, god placed it on
(25:38):
someone's heart to pay thelawyer fees.
They didn't know it was forthat, they didn't even know what
we were walking through.
But I look back at that and I,you know the enemy puts all the
shame on you and you know hejust he'll come in.
I mean, we, we feel it enoughourselves, and then he just adds
to it.
And I just think how graciousthe Lord was to me in that
(26:01):
moment and did so many miracles.
Did it deliver us from theoverall situation, but did so
many miracles in the darknessthat it just tattooed deep
within my heart, like this faithin the Lord, that, okay, he
goes anywhere with me and nomatter how devastating it is, no
(26:23):
matter what I have to face, amI going to be okay?
Because if God is with me, whocan be against me?
And I think you know whetherwe're talking about facing
enemies or whether we're talkingabout just a circumstance that
feels like an overarching enemyin our life.
God's presence changes theatmosphere of the rooms we walk
(26:45):
in and changes the atmosphere ofour hearts, which changes our
perspective and how we show upin the world.
And I am so thankful for that,because I cannot imagine walking
through some of the thingswe've walked through without
being able to come and be ableto share with you or share with
somebody in the grocery store.
I remember thinking I am nevertelling anybody that we've
(27:06):
walked through this because,even though I saw God show up,
there was still an element of,you know, shame.
It's not like you're going togo around and announce when
you're going through a verydifficult circumstance like that
, and I thought I don't want totalk about this, I don't want to
tell people about this, and itwould amaze me how I would run
(27:30):
into somebody somewhere and theywould start sharing with me the
difficult financialcircumstance they were in, or
something that was along thoselines, and how God would prompt
me to encourage them.
And now I can share about itwithout bawling, and so I'm
super thankful for that.
But I love how God's presencehe is with us, and so you know
(27:50):
what I look at it this way IfGod is asking me to pray for my
enemy, um I I don't want tochance losing the power of his
spirit being activated in mylife, because I'm stubborn, and
I'm stubborn y'all.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Are you the oldest?
I am yes.
Okay, me too.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, and God often has to bombard me, you know,
with um, with his truth andcause.
I don't always obey him when hejust tells me to.
So I don't know, Kristen, ifyou can relate to that.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I mean I've gotten quicker.
Well, I used to try to.
You know, like, like you said,talking about arguing, you know,
arguing with offense posts.
Like my parents said, I shouldhave been a lawyer when I was
growing up, because I just Iwant to know the deeper meaning
behind things and a lot of timeswhat the Lord calls us to do
(28:50):
doesn't make sense, right?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Absolutely.
So, that's what I'll just sayit's not.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
it's that analytical side that confronts like I'm a
very free spirited girl now,like I've become so free
spirited, but the analyticalside will try to come in and try
to make sense of everything.
I'll have to be like, oh well,this isn't making sense.
Can you, can you make sense ofthis?
I don't want to do this unlessyou give me all of it.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Right, I and I hear you completely and, like you
said, I've gotten quicker, butthere are still moments where I
definitely wrestle with the Lorda little bit.
But I do, I am faster to obeybecause I know when he's saying
it there's got to be somethinghe has for me that is going to
(29:38):
shift things in some way.
Whether it's just doing heartsurgery on me, I mean I don't
like it.
But I remember reading I thinkit was like TJ Jakes or somebody
had written about the fact thata knife is used in surgery and
a knife is also used if someonegets stabbed, but the intent
(30:01):
behind it is when you havesurgery, the intent is to heal
Behind a stabbing or somethinglike that, the intent is to kill
and it's the intent thatmatters.
And so I know when God isasking me to do things, that I
mean usually when he asked me todo something.
If he's having to ask me,usually it's something I don't
initially want to do, if we'rejust honest about it, because if
(30:29):
he was asking me, then thatmeans I'm not doing it, I would
already be doing it if I thoughtI should you know and he has to
ask you, is that?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
yes, I mean you know most with us.
Yeah, most of us don't justalways want to jump to do their
hard right thing you know we'relooking for.
I don't know, at least I am,I'll speak for myself.
I'm usually looking for thequickest, easiest route that'll
be the least amount of pain.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, I mean that's, that's, that's our flesh, I mean
that's, I think that's honestlylike what we've been.
Um, just that's what the worldwants.
Yes, right, it's like theInstapot, you know, like, give
me it fast, give me it easy,give me it painless, right.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yes, absolutely, and yeah, the quickest version of it
.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
you know and.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
God works through process, as much as I don't
always like that.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
And process takes time, no-transcript like biggest
faith leap that you've taken,that you've had to kind of
wrestled out with the lure andthen you were like, okay, I'm
doing this thing um, so I will.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
My husband and I together have had plenty of
leaps of faith, but for mepersonally, um, we left Colorado
about three years after livingthere and we ended up in Madison
, mississippi.
Um, was definitely somethingthat the Lord organized.
We couldn't have organized itand just getting here was a huge
(32:11):
step of faith.
But once we got here, um, wewere coming underneath a pastor
and his wife and going to helpin ministry.
But I looked at my husband andI said this is your thing.
This was a huge transition.
I mean, we had lived in StLouis, missouri, for 14 years,
(32:34):
then Colorado for three, and nowwe're making another big move
to Mississippi.
And I didn't know anythingabout the South and my husband
said he'd never live in theSouth.
So you can see how God's senseof humor is is just so
interesting.
And so we end up in the Southand then we're, you know,
stepping in to helping out at achurch and leadership in various
(32:57):
ways, and I just literally saidI want to be low key, I want to
stay in the background, I wantto help my kids with this
transition.
And, yeah, god didn't listen tome.
My husband listened, but Goddidn't.
So within a, very literally,within like two months, the
(33:19):
pastor's wife was asking me tolead a small group to encourage
moms.
And I thought to myself like Idon't want to do this.
But I just didn't feel like Ihad anything to give in that
season and I just thought I justdon't want to do this.
But for some reason I decidedto say yes.
(33:41):
I think it was more of Godprompting me and so I said yes.
Now small groups are so common.
But I mean, this was I don'tknow.
I just thought, god, I havenothing to give, I don't want to
lead other people and I juststarted.
I had to go depend upon him.
(34:02):
I literally had to go seek himevery week and say Lord, what do
you want me to share with thesewomen?
And what I had no clue aboutwas was this was just a tiny,
tiny step of what he was askingme to step into.
Because, just like two monthsafter that, the pastor's wife
asked me if I would startleading a women's class on a
Sunday morning, and in thefacility that we were in, the
(34:26):
women's class took place in acoffee shop or like a cafe area
at the church that was open,really, to anybody, so it wasn't
even like a private space forwomen.
And so she was asking me totrade off teaching the women
that would come for that andreally anybody who was walking
by.
And I didn't want to.
(34:47):
I thought, okay, the smallgroup was enough.
Lord, like I already havestepped into that, what are you
doing?
And I had no desire, like I wasenjoying attending this women's
class and soaking in from thewisdom of the women who were
pouring into us and I'm thinkingI am perfectly fine right where
(35:10):
I'm at.
But so my pastor's wife at thattime she had a way with the Lord
, because when she came to askyou to do something, what that
really meant was she had alreadysought the Lord.
Because when she came to askyou to do something, what that
really meant was she had alreadysought the Lord and she had
already been praying and theLord had already dropped your
name into her heart.
And so when she came and asked,it was already certain that God
(35:34):
was at work and she had themindset of you know what, if
this person says no, they'remissing out on the blessing that
the Lord has for them.
And if they say yes, then youknow God has been working on
them and we're going to see whathe does.
And so she never let theoutcome bother her and she loved
(35:54):
asking people to step up and toserve and to step into things
they were uncomfortable doing.
That never fazed her.
And so when she came and askedme my literal thoughts, well,
she was looking me in the eye,was over my dead body, but as I
left, um, I felt, like you know,she, she, she's very smart,
(36:17):
like you know she's very smart.
So she did not ask me again forthe next couple of weeks and
she just was quiet as she prayedand I really started feeling
like God began to tap me on theshoulder and say Joelle, if you
say no to her, you're saying noto me, and it brings tears to,
(36:44):
you know, swell up of emotioninside of me because I knew that
that was a point in my lifewhere I could either step up and
allow God to work through meand, yeah, you know, someone can
look at this and say, okay,that's just teaching a women's
class, joelle.
Like that's not that big of adeal In my life.
Like I didn't want to be up infront leading people.
I didn't desire to speak infront of people, made it through
the speech class in college,but I'm not a great memorizer.
(37:07):
And so you have the peoplearound you who are great at
memorizing facts or memorizingscripture, and I'm thinking, ok,
I'll know the gist of ascripture, but I might know it
came out of James, but I may notremember it was James 4a, and
so I don't want to be thatperson up in front that
everybody is looking at.
And you start looking at yourown insecurities.
And then, and I and I, just Ididn't know what I didn't know.
(37:31):
But when I heard God's voicesay you're going to, if you say
no, you're saying no to me Iknew that I had a choice, and
this choice was bigger thanwhether I was going to teach a
women's class or not.
And so, as scared as I was, whenmy pastor's wife came back to
(37:51):
me and of course she did I washoping she'd forgotten.
But she came back and I saidbut she came back and I said yes
, and I will never forget thefirst Sunday that I taught my.
You know, I was holding amicrophone.
My hand was shaking which isway more obvious when you're
(38:16):
holding a microphone and Istarted sharing.
And then, all of a sudden, I wassharing the scripture where the
Lord is talking to Moses and hesays I am that I am, and there
was something about thatscripture that I just felt the
anointing, the presence of Godcome over me and in my heart and
mind I just said, lord, I'll dowhat you asked me to do if you
(38:37):
show up like this every time.
I'll do what you asked me to doif you show up like this every
time.
And so that changed me in somany ways, because over the next
seven years that we were underthis pastor and his wife before
they retired, again and againthey asked me to step up and do
things that I didn't want to doin my flesh, and again and again
(38:58):
I just felt like God promptingme.
If you say no, you're saying noto me, and I want to say to to
some people who are out there.
You know there are times wherepeople are asking you to do
things and God may not tell youthat and no is a real answer.
So say no.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yes, that's a whole other topic.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yes.
Don't say yes because you'refeeling pressured or you know
because you feel like, oh, thisis the right thing to do, so to
speak, you know, to impresspeople or whatever that looks
like, because I'm going to tellyou all right now that if I
would have done that, I think Iwould have got up and failed.
But it is because the Lord was,you know, it was like him and I
(39:40):
worked out this deal Okay, I'llshow up.
If you show up, he's like I'mgoing to show up and I'm like,
okay, I'll show up.
I think when you have a heart,even if you're scared out of
your mind.
You know, several years laterbecause that was like in 2013
and 2015, my pastor asked me tospeak on Mother's Day.
My pastor asked me to speak onMother's Day and I thought he
(40:06):
meant to the women's group orthe women's class that I had at
that time, been at for severalyears.
But he looked at me kind ofstrange because I replied so
quickly.
And then I looked at himstrange and said you mean big
church, mean big church.
(40:26):
In 2015, I spoke on Mother'sDay to our whole church, which
was like running three to 400people at that time and scared
out of my mind.
One thing I've realized is whenI, when I get ready to get up
and speak, the few momentsbefore my brain knows nothing.
I couldn't tell you onescripture or one focus or point
from my notes.
I feel like it is this total.
(40:47):
It's sort of like I've jumpedoff the cliff and I can't see
where I'm going to land and Ijust have to trust that God's
going to meet me there.
And so definitely had one ofthose moments again and that
experience.
But on that platform God met methere and ever since, I mean
when God has put somethingbefore me, you know, I'm
(41:09):
stopping and I'm praying and I'mlike Lord, is this really what
you want me to do?
Because if you want me to do it, I'm going to trust you.
I even though I feel horrible,the butterflies are going and I
feel like I've just jumped outof an airplane and I don't know
where I'm going to land and ifI'm going to be okay.
But I'm trusting that you havea safety net for me.
And so for me, just answeringthat call over and over again,
(41:34):
because God doesn't usually askus to do things that are in our
comfort zone.
Usually it's things that areoutside of our comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Absolutely so powerful, I mean literally like
a leap of faith, truly.
And I guess my question to youand maybe others are wondering
like has has that kind of theanxiousness or the, you know,
not able to think kind ofsituation, has that eased up
over the years since you'vestarted stepping out and
(42:04):
speaking more, coming out, Iwould say coming out of hiding,
in essence, yeah, so Idefinitely.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
You know, I taught in our women's class and learn to
lead, you know, every Sunday,and so in some regard it got a
little bit more comfortable.
But I will say this too, thatwhen you're stepping out and
you're walking in your callingand you're doing what God has
asked you to do, there's warfarethat comes with that.
And so I also remember Sundaymornings being very difficult,
(42:35):
because something seemed toalways happen with our children,
or something like that, eitheron Saturday night or Sunday
morning.
And so, even though thenervousness about just getting
up and speaking may haveslightly lessened and I felt
more comfortable, not because ofanything but the fact that I
knew God would show up and if Iprepared, I knew that he wasn't
(42:58):
going to leave me, and so Ibegan to trust in that knowing.
But that didn't take away fromall the obstacles that would
come.
And I remember there beingSundays where walking into
church if I'm just honest withyou, feeling angry because I had
to deal with, you know, my kidsfighting or whatever that
(43:19):
looked like and saying, oh, mygoodness, lord, how am I
supposed to walk into a room andtalk about your mighty power
and love when I'm ready to wringsomebody's neck right now and
just me having to learn to.
Not because I was being um, notthat you go in and you're
presenting something different,because I'm not talking about
(43:40):
being a hypocrite, because manytimes I would share with the
women.
I may not have shared thedetails, but I would share the
gist of maybe something I walkedthrough that week to help them
know that, man, I am just likeyou, like I get in the mud of
life and it gets all over me.
And just because I come tochurch looking clean and put
(44:01):
together doesn't mean I don'texperience versions of what you
don't experience.
And so, if anything, it helpedbuild a rawness and an openness
in me to share, because that Iknow that when I listen to other
people speak, I relate topeople who are not perfect.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yes, and I was.
I was going to ask a questionaround that in essence, like who
do you most relate to?
I don't know about you, but Itend to relate to the underdog.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
I relate to the ones who aren't perfectly put
together, you know, though, itwasn't easy, and we went through
a lot of difficult things inthose seven years underneath
this pastor and his wife, justin life not because of them, but
(44:48):
just in life.
But it was just so powerfulbecause I realized that people
needed they don't need to hearevery detail of your story, but
they need to know that you havehad a rough time, that things
aren't always perfect in yourlife, and not only that.
I feel like I flourishedbecause my pastor's wife was one
(45:08):
who would encourage me andshare with me stories of the
things that they went through,and their life was not perfect.
I don't think I could haveministered underneath a pastor
and wife where everything justseemed like it all slowed,
because I couldn't relate tothat.
So there's definitely thataspect.
(45:29):
Back to your other questionabout the nervousness.
What I saw God do is, wheneverhe would place me in a new
situation so say, in front of adifferent group of people
ministering to a different group, maybe a larger group, maybe it
wasn't just women, maybe it wasa couple of times I got, you
know, asked to speak at otherlocal churches here, just
(45:51):
different things like that Iwould definitely feel that
nervousness come back in, but Ilearned to treat it as a friend,
because when you know the fearis going to come.
But if you know the fear isgoing to come and you kind of
(46:12):
look at it like, okay, the fearis going to come because, yeah,
I'm doing something hard andscary, it's something different
than I've done before, so thisreally just means that God's
going to show up and he's goingto help me.
So I'm probably doing the rightthing.
And I just learned to convincemyself of this Not that it
didn't take it away, but I thinkthat because God is always
(46:32):
placing us in new situations,he's always trying to stretch us
, and so, just as we may youknow, have you ever got to a
place with the Lord, kristen,where you're like, okay, god, I
think I've learned this lessonLike, are we doing this again?
Right, you know, you startgetting comfortable and you
think, okay, I got it, I got it.
(46:53):
And then it's like somethingcomes at you at a new angle and
you find yourself going aroundthe circle again with the Lord.
I think doing hard and scarythings is kind of like that,
because it you do it once andyou do it in a certain area, and
then God asks you to do it adifferent way and with the in a
new area, and he's going tostretch you all over again, and
so I think the fact that itdoesn't go completely away is
(47:15):
actually our saving grace,because it keeps us depending
upon him.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Absolutely, and it and it really.
I I've said that many timesbecause, you know, just even
starting this podcast, 2023, heshowed me, like this is the year
of the stretch, with your voice, and I was like, oh, so what
are we doing?
But one of the things similarto what you said, you know that,
yes, right, he showed me ifit's in alignment, just say yes.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Yeah, we'll take care of it that is so good.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
We like being stretched in areas that we would
rather just not be stretched in.
Like easy it's easier.
But we get to be an example ofum.
You know, in essence it's it'skind of like the underdog.
Like I said, I love theunderdog, I love the ones that
are chosen that don't really fitthe whole bill.
(48:07):
You know what I Like um it.
It's that much more powerfulbecause it is it's the Lord
working through us to do thething that we thought we could
never do, right.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Well, and I not only doing the thing we thought we
could never do, but what I foundin it was I didn't realize I
had a passion to teach andencourage women in their faith
and help them overcome obstaclesso they could step into their
calling.
Like I didn't know, I couldn'thave said those words to you had
(48:42):
I not walked through this andfirst of all seeing my pastor's
wife call it out in me and thennow not I get the opportunity to
call it out in others.
But I couldn't even have toldyou that that was my passion had
I not walked through this.
And I think that's often whatGod wants to give us is like
these diamonds.
(49:03):
You know he's like I have thesetreasures for you, but if you
won't step through this hard andscary door, like, you're not
even going to know that you evenwould have wanted that treasure
.
So true, yeah, I wouldn't even.
I wouldn't have no one to askfor that.
And then, in the middle of that,you know other treasures I
found, which look different inevery person's life.
But I actually found that Ienjoyed the studying to, the
(49:27):
prepping to teach almost just asmuch, because the teaching kind
of scared me if that's what Ihad to grow into, but the
studying and the preparing andwhat God would highlight to me.
And and then I realized throughthat I had a passion for
writing because I just wouldpour myself into it.
Or, initially, more out of justbeing scared, I wanted to be
(49:50):
over-prepared because I didn'twant to get up and have nothing
to say to people, and so I wasgiving God lots to work with, I
think, just more out of feelingincompetent to some degree, but
then realized that I had apassion for that.
And so I think that there arethings that God's like saying to
his daughters and his sons likeI want to show you things you
(50:11):
know not of, but I can't showyou if you won't step through
this door with me, if you won'tstep into this season with me
and you won't embrace the hardand scary.
You know.
There's so many things I feellike we miss out on.
Not only do we miss out on thedependency and the intimacy with
the Lord, but then just in thatdiscovery process, because part
(50:33):
of discovering who we are andwhat God has called us to do is
discovering what we don't likeand what we do and what excites
us and what doesn't.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Oh my gosh, so much goodness here I'm telling you.
You know what I'm hearing justin a phrase.
It's like in the pressing comesthe passion.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Yes, that is so good, kristen, you can say that.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I mean seriously and a lot of times.
You know what I.
What I find in my heart is tosee women continue on, because
too often, like, the temptationis to give up before you even
get to that place where youyou're so close to the treasure.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Yes, right, you're so close to the treasure and I
would say treasures because youknow we're all always walking
through something.
I mean it's sort of the natureof this life.
I mean I say to people all thetime, you know, problems fall in
your lap.
You have to fight for joy, andso we're all always experiencing
(51:38):
things in this life and weusually, you know, if we could,
we would opt out of the problemsand just take all the joy, or
just give me all the joy and letme just here for a little bit.
But as much as I don't want tosign up for the problems and I'm
never will put my name on alist that says heartache and
(52:00):
pain and difficulty but at thesame time, there, there, I think
that there are ongoingtreasures that God wants to give
us that we wouldn't take thetime to see, otherwise we just
would walk right past them.
Because you have to dig in thedirt often to find the treasure.
And if you're digging in thedirt, it means you're getting
messy and life is probably notgoing the exact way you thought
(52:22):
it would, and so I don't know ifthis could be an encouragement
to anybody.
I don't know if this could bean encouragement to anybody.
But if you find yourself in thedarkness and you feel like
you're digging, and that youknow digging deep, and all you
can see is mud, you're not aloneand there are treasures that
God has there for you.
I know there's my kind ofwalking through a tough season
(52:44):
right now in certain aspects,and one of the things I felt
like the Lord was telling me inthis past two weeks is dig
deeper.
And honestly, kristen, thoseare not the words I wanted to
hear from him.
You know, I wanted to hear I'mlifting you out, I'm releasing
you.
You know, things are shiftingimmediately.
(53:05):
But he said dig deeper.
And I'm like Lord, what is thatmean?
In the season, Because I feellike I'm already digging deep
and I literally Googled likewhat did it look like to dig a
well in Bible days?
And because I thought, okay, nowwe have equipment, so it looks
far different, you know.
And when I Googled it, it saidthat they would dig wells with
(53:27):
their hands or whatever form ofshovel that they may have had
back then, and they had to becareful because when you go down
deep enough, the sides couldcave in.
And I just thought, wow, lord.
So it is truly a walk by faith.
When God is asking you to digdeep, you're trusting that the
walls aren't going to cave in,that he's got you and you know,
(53:50):
really, if you don't want to seemud, you have to look up.
And looking up is from.
You know from where our helpcomes from and so you know.
I'm just, I'm thankful thateven when God is asking us to
dig deep and to cultivate,whatever that looks like in our
lives, you know the intimacywith him, the trying to see the
(54:13):
treasures in the darkness, evenwhen we're having a hard time
seeing them, that God reallydoes have good things for his
sons and daughters and man boy.
Do we have to dig in the wordof God and really trust what the
word says about the Lord'scharacter?
And really trust what the wordsays about the Lord's character
and that he is a good father andthat if his children, you know,
(54:33):
ask for bread, he will not giveus a stone?
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Oh, so good.
It has been a joy to have youon here today.
I think we'll have to have youback on for more.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I think my favorite thing is just to encourage
people and for somebody to knowthey are not alone.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Well, I was going to ask.
So at the end of every episode,I like to ask if you could just
get in mind that one who'slistening in today.
Do you have anything else you'dlike to say to her, and would
you pray us out today?
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Absolutely.
I would love to Kristen.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
You know if you're walking through a tough season,
I would say be really carefulwhat you're telling yourself.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
What we tell ourselves is what we tend to
believe, which is why God callsus to really be in his word and
to replace our words with his.
And something that really stoodout to me was the woman with the
issue of blood, and she's inthree of the four gospels
mentioned, and her name is notmentioned.
(55:45):
But what is mentioned is whatshe was telling herself, and it
says in the scripture that shewas telling herself if I can
just touch the hem of hisgarment, I will be healed.
And that has ministered to me,because it is so important for
(56:06):
us to get God's promises deepwithin us, even if it's just one
, for you to hold on to andbegin to tell yourself a
different story than whatcircumstances are telling you.
You have held on to nothingelse, like it, but just hold on
(56:33):
and trust that what God is doing, he is going to do something
good on the behalf of hisdaughter or son, and he is a
good father.
So that's what I would say tothe one Just watch what you are
telling yourself, because theenemy wants to whisper in your
ear and have you to tellyourself things that will lead
you down a hopeless road.
And so man do whatever it takes, but don't let that happen.
(56:57):
And so, kristen, are you okay?
if I go ahead and pray this outyes, okay, lord, I am just so
thankful for who you are.
Lord, I'm thankful that you arethe God who sees your children.
You go with us into the placesthat we would never choose maybe
(57:18):
to walk through or in, but youare there with us and, lord, I
thank you that.
For any listener right now,that is like I'm in a place you
know, and this does not feelgood.
Lord, I thank you that.
For any listener right now,that is like I'm in a place you
know, and this does not feelgood.
Lord, I just pray that yourpowerful presence meets them
right where they are right now.
Lord, your presence changes theatmosphere of our hearts, it
(57:39):
changes the atmosphere of rooms,it shifts perspective and so,
lord, I just thank you for theone.
I thank you, lord, that you areour one, that we can keep our
eyes in you.
In 2 Chronicles 2.20,.
Somewhere in there in thatchapter, it talks about when
Jehoshaphat was being faced withan enemy that was coming
(58:01):
against him and they were goingto have to fight the battle.
There's a verse in there thatsays, lord, we don't know what
to do, but we're keeping oureyes on you and so, lord, may we
keep our eyes on you today.
May we not look to the left orto the right or to the
circumstances that feel likethey're pressing in the darkness
(58:22):
that feels like it is pressingin, but may we look up and may
we look to where our help comesfrom, knowing that you are
fighting battles upon our behalf.
May we hear your voice and bemore sensitive to your spirit
and to your voice than we everhave before.
And if you're asking us to stepout and to do something that
(58:42):
doesn't make sense and you'retapping us on the shoulder and
you're saying, hey, you know,I'm asking you to do this, this
is the Lord.
If you say no, you're saying noto me.
Lord, I just pray you help us totake courage to step out by
faith, trusting that you haveour backs and that nothing is
impossible for you.
(59:03):
In fact, the impossible willbecome inevitable in your hands.
And so may you just grow ourtrust, grow our faith, help us
to become more steadfast in yourpromises, help us to just
plunge deeper into your word,that we may know it more than
our own words.
That when we're looking atcircumstances that feel
(59:25):
uncomfortable, that feelpressing, that feel painful,
that we can literally say toourselves, we can look around
and see what's happening andthen say, even though this is
what I see, this is the word ofGod and this is what I am
believing, and so I'm going tostand firm on the promises of
(59:48):
God.
And so, lord, I just thank youfor a strengthening of your body
.
I thank you, lord, that you areraising up mighty warriors,
even those of ones of us who maynot always want to fight, lord,
but I pray that you arestrengthening us, you are
calling us forward, you areequipping us and you are
empowering us to do everythingon this side of heaven that you
have spoken over us to do.
And, lord, I thank you for itand I just pray.
(01:00:10):
Blessings upon every listenerand upon Kristen, and just
multiplication and blessing overthis podcast, in Jesus name,
amen.
Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Amen.
You are a powerhouse girl.
Love it Well.
Thank you for being a bravevoice.
Who's setting others free.
I'm going to close with theanchoring verse for Hope,
unlocked it's.
May the God of hope fill youwith all joy and peace and
believing, so that, by the powerof the Holy Spirit, you may
abound in hope.
And that's Romans 15, 13.
So I will have Joelle's contactinformation in the show notes
(01:00:46):
If you want to get ahold of hersocial media, all the places.
It'll be there and I will beback with another episode next
week.
Thanks, listeners, and thankyou again, joelle.
Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
You are so welcome.
It was such an honor.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Hope Unlocked podcast.
I'm your host, kristen Kurtz,and I'm also the founder of New
Wings Coaching.
I help and empower wildheartedand adventurous women of faith
feeling caged and stuck, unlocktheir true purpose and potential
, break free from limitationsand thrive with confidence,
courage and hope.
If you're curious to learn moreabout coaching with me, head to
newwingscoachingnet and be sureto explore the show notes for
(00:38):
ways to connect with me further.
Get ready to dive in as weuncover empowering keys and
insights in this episode.
So tune in and let's unlockhope together.
Welcome to the Hope Unlockedpodcast.
I'm Kristen Kurtz, your host.
I pray this episode is like aholy IV of hope for your soul.
Please help me.
Welcome Joelle Pavolni to theshow.
I'm very excited to have herhere today.
(01:00):
We actually met through socialmedia and through a conversation
.
I was just like hey, do youwant to share your story on Hope
Unlocked?
And I'm very excited for her toshare more about herself and
her journey, and I know she'sdefinitely going to infuse some
hope and joy to the audiencetoday.
So would you be open to sharingmore about yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Absolutely, kristen.
Thank you so much for having meon your podcast.
It's an honor and I'm just sothankful for God's grace in our
lives and how he works and evenhow he connected us through
social media.
And you're right, social mediacan be it can be a wild place,
but God is working, even onsocial media, so that's so fun.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Absolutely it's.
It's interesting because I knowlike obviously we don't want to
spend all our time there.
Right, it's good to be inpublic and with real people, but
there are some really good realpeople around the world that we
can find on social media, rightgood real people around the
world that we can find on socialmedia, right, absolutely, and,
and they can be such anencouragement.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
You know what you look for, you find, and so I
feel like when I am on socialmedia, I am always looking for
other like minded people that Ithink, okay, they are, you know,
they're doing something to makea difference in the world.
I want to, you know, have thatinfused in my life, and so
that's kind of my goal withsocial media is either infuse
good or find people who are andand connect with them.
(02:35):
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
It's interesting, I feel like I'm stopped here for a
moment on social media becausethere's a lot of people that are
like I'm just leaving.
It's like, well, what's causingyou to leave?
There's a beauty in socialmedia where we can snooze people
, we can unfriend.
If needed, you can block people.
(02:59):
Even I like to curate my feedto be positive and uplifting,
and it's kind of like youwouldn't go into a restaurant
that serves really bad foodunless you didn't know.
Right, if you continue to like,focus and keep company with
(03:22):
just a lot of toxic out there,it's going to infect you, right,
would you say.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, I think it is so wiseto be careful of the voices that
you're listening to and justknow the season that you're in
and what affects you.
I think sometimes we forget.
You know, especially, I tend tofeel things kind of deeply and
if I'm starting to feeluncomfortable or just have a
(03:51):
sense of, okay, I was on socialmedia for a few minutes and
there was no encouragement,there was no, I'm thinking okay,
I need to change who I'mfollowing, who I'm listening to,
because there really is a lotof good in the world.
There's still a lot of good onsocial media and if those of us
who have a heart to encourageothers, if we all leave because
of the bad, then what is thereleft?
(04:11):
You know, and I do trulybelieve, just like being in our
community and being a light forthe Lord.
You know, online we need to bea light as well and just try to
show others that, my goodness,there are things worth living
for and there are still peoplein the world who want to make a
difference.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yes, well, like, what does that look like for you
being on social media?
Then, like, have I know?
You said you're, as I can tell,like, with myself being a
feeler, just being, you know,it's easy to get affected, like
seeing the temperature out there.
Sometimes I actually purposelygo out and check the temperature
, even the comments of people,and I know this sounds silly,
(04:55):
but, um, because I am one who'slike, I'm a researcher, I love
to dig deep.
Um, I also like to see what thetemperature is out on their
streets and it's very surprisingat times to just see the
polarizing opinions out there.
But, like, what does that looklike for you, you know, being
(05:17):
able to encourage others and bethe light on social media?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
I mean, I think for me.
You know, I, whenever I go onsocial media, I'm trying and I
will first of all say, ifanybody checks my social media,
I have not been as active in thelast couple of years merely
just because of how busy my lifehas been.
But I always, when I get on andif I'm posting something, I'm
(05:45):
just like, okay, I want this, Iwant to encourage somebody else,
I want to be able to make adifference and hopefully,
walking away from my time onsocial media myself, to be
encouraged and others.
But what I recognized when Iwas on social media a lot and
when I was using my platforms toreally challenge people in
their faith and to, just, youknow, help people to realize
(06:10):
that there is hope and there isalways more to it than what
you're seeing initially kind ofbeneath the surface.
Whenever I would get, you know,I don't know tough comments or
people that didn't appreciate it, I would kind of think to
myself, okay, I am making adifference.
Then, because if you never stirup any trouble and I'm not
(06:30):
saying that that's our intent Imean, when I go on social media,
I don't personally, I don'tfeel like arguing on social
media gets people anywhere.
But if you're speaking truthand you're trying to encourage
people and lift people up andthat stirs people up, it lets me
(06:52):
know that I'm probably doingthe right thing, because my
heart is always to serve peopleand lift people higher, and the
enemy is not going to appreciatethat Not at all.
Trust me.
So back when I used to do quitea few Facebook lives and things
like that and we get on and dolike some short teachings and
things, there were times thatpeople would get on and just say
rude things and try to throwyou off course and everything,
(07:15):
and I think that's just part ofit.
You sort of have to get a toughskin with social media but
honestly, we all have to gettough skin in life in general or
, or you know, we'll crumble.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
So what does that look like for you to?
You know, get tough skin andwhat does that, what does that
actually mean?
Somebody might be like whatdoes tough skin mean?
I'm just you never know.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, no, for me I am not, am not well, so it's kind
of contra.
This is gonna kind of what I'mgonna say is gonna contradict
itself.
But my father used to say thatI would argue with a fence post.
But, um, there is a very much apart of me who does not like to
(08:02):
fight unless I really need to.
So I can, even though inthrough years of leadership and
things like that I have I stepout, I'm, you know, have to lead
on Sundays, I work in the localchurch, all of that.
But at my heart or in my heart,and I'm really an introvert and
(08:22):
so I'm sort of like one whomeasures my energy.
It's like, okay, is this fightworth my time and effort?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yes, but God has a way.
No matter what your personalitytype is, no matter if you're an
extrovert or an introvert, nomatter what your Enneagram
number is, no matter what any ofthose things are, god is trying
to, I believe, build his peopleup strong in him.
And so that means that when theyou know attacks from the enemy
(08:52):
come, when just people arepeople and they say rude things
or they don't have the bestintentions towards you, we've
got to get strong or we willcrumble, we'll succumb to.
You know that emotional rollercoaster that we've all jumped on
, where we just let life take usfor this ride and we're up and
down with all the up and downs,and I definitely lived that way
(09:14):
for a period of my life, and I'mnot um, I there's still comes
and goes some now, but I'velearned that I can be more
steadfast and not jump on thatroller coaster, that I do have a
choice.
And so for me, being tough skinis more reminding myself of
God's promises and not feel likeyou know okay everything is
(09:37):
swirling around me and I'm dyingand the sky's falling and just
you know.
Falling apart because life willtry to rip you apart.
I mean life, human nature, theenemy.
Falling apart because life willtry to rip you apart, I mean
why?
Human nature, the enemy, all ofthe things I mean.
I remember a specific time, um,my husband and I we were in
Colorado.
Um, we felt like God had calledus to start a church there and
(10:02):
this was, oh goodness, like 1012years ago and we had.
Anyway, we just, obviously, ifyou're going to do anything for
the kingdom, you're going toface obstacles, you're going to
have fiery darts from the enemyand all of that.
And there was there is oneparticular person who I felt
(10:23):
like every week was always sortof coming against me and I
remember the Lord justchallenging me because I would
get so caught up in my feelingsand my emotions.
And the Lord just challenging meand saying I need you to read
the love chapter in Corinthiansand I need you to pour out love
(10:44):
as if you are receiving it fromthis person and not look at what
they're giving you and talkabout learning how to get tough
skin.
I mean, that does not feel good.
It doesn't feel good to be likequote unquote sort of like
slapped in the face weekly andGod telling you pour out love.
So now I look back on thatperiod of time and I'm actually
(11:10):
so thankful for that experiencebecause it taught me as I feel
like most of the experiences dowith the Lord, but they come at
you from different angles toreally trust the Lord and to not
operate out of my own feelingsand to know that he always has
something greater for us and wemight be praying for the
(11:34):
situation and whether he everchanges the person or not we
have no control over, but we dohave control over on allowing
him to change us.
And I became stronger throughgoing through that experience
and I'm so thankful for itbecause I don't necessarily like
to engage in those kinds offights, but God was teaching me
(11:55):
how to fight in new ways.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Fighting with love.
Wow, yes.
So what?
Like?
I'm curious like how did thatsituation turn out with that
person?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Um, that person did not change, but I changed.
Wow, wow, that's you know, andand it just really taught me a
lot.
It taught me that, as we'repraying for people, um, first of
all, in the word, it tells usto pray for our enemies.
And that's hard for people toswallow initially, especially if
(12:27):
you have somebody who hascaused trauma in your life or
it's much deeper than justsomebody who is constantly going
out of their way.
It feels like to offend you orto say you know, I don't like
you or don't you know, whateverthat is.
I know there are people whohave been hurt in tremendous
ways, but the thing that I'verealized about praying for your
(12:51):
enemies is number one if it doeschange them, I mean, that would
be the ultimate, because whywould we want anybody to go on
hurting people in the world?
But if it changes us and webecome a transformed person
because of it and we learn howto trust God with the results of
whatever he's doing in theirlife, because we can't control
(13:12):
that but if we just keep ourhearts open to what God's trying
to do in us, as hard as it isand I mean, my goodness, when I
first, you know, you hear theconcept of praying for your
enemies.
But then I heard a preachertalk about that.
This is more than just sayinglike this short little prayer
that you're sort of begrudginglysaying like Lord bless them.
(13:32):
I don't know if I really reallyfeel that way, but Lord bless
them, you know, to praying foryour enemy in a way that you're
you in the, in a way that youwould want your own family to be
prayed for, and realizing youknow, I heard somebody else say
and I want to say maybe this wasBob Goff that had said this,
(13:53):
but I was.
But I heard somebody else talkabout that when we pray for
people that are, I don't know,going astray, or maybe that
they're not, you know, whateverit is, it feels like an enemy to
us.
Maybe it, maybe it doesn't feellike an enemy, maybe it's just
people that rub us the wrong way.
I don't know what that lookslike in our lives, but when we
(14:15):
take time to pray for them, it'slike God saying thank you for
praying for my children becausethey're my son or daughter, just
like you are and you know itare.
I guess it stirs somethingwithin me, even though I don't
necessarily like it in themoment, but I think, man, how
much grace have I needed on thiswalk with the Lord?
You know, before I grew up inchurch, but I didn't always walk
(14:40):
in complete faith because Ididn't know God like I know him
now and I still have so much togrow, but I'm just like I need
so much grace.
And so now it's changed mymindset to think why wouldn't I
pray for them?
Because, man, how much do Istill need God every day?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I.
This is a huge key for somebodytoday.
Truly, I can imagine like I dothis for the one right.
So I'm imagining the one that'sjust like how do I implement
this?
How do I actually do this?
Like, how do I get into thatposture to be even able to do
this?
Speaker 2 (15:20):
You know, all I would know to say is, every time
another jab comes and I know,for me usually the initial
feeling is anger because, youknow, anger is sort of that top
emotion and then the hurtsunderneath and I definitely have
to get raw with the Lordbecause I'm not like, oh,
someone was nasty and now I feellike blessing them.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Right, that's what I was like.
What does it tangibly look likefor you to walk through this?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
It tangibly looks like.
You know, sitting down with theLord and saying this made me
angry and I feel pretty hatefultowards this person right now
and I don't like this.
I don't like what they're doingand sometimes just being honest
with the Lord and saying, Lord,I don't like what they're doing
and sometimes just being honestwith the Lord and saying, Lord,
you know, because sometimespeople hurt us and they're being
promoted in ways around us andthat can be difficult and really
(16:12):
getting raw with the Lord andsaying, Lord, I am going to go
back to your promises and thecharacter of who you are,
because I can't trust what I'mseeing.
I can't trust what I'm feelingand what I want to do is not
what I should do and just askingthe Lord to give me the right
heart posture.
And I think the underliningreason I can even do that is
(16:37):
because God blesses people whoare hungry and humble for Him.
If you're hungry, you have adesire for him to change you,
because you know that you can'tdevelop into who he's bringing
you to be if you can't be moldedand shaped through the
difficult seasons.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
And.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I just got this thing in me that's risen up over the
years that, like I wanteverything the Lord has for me
on this side of heaven.
I already know great things aregoing to be in eternity, but
all that he has for me on thisside of heaven, I don't want to
miss it.
So why would I allow thisperson?
And there's people you knowthey're different, they're going
to be people in differentseasons of our life.
(17:20):
There are going to rub us thewrong way in different, in
different seasons of our lifethat are going to rub us the
wrong way in different times andwe're going to have to learn.
You know, are their actionsworth me missing out on what God
has for me?
Or am I going to get really rawand open with the Lord and tell
him about the hurt, tell himabout the pain and then ask him
to shift my heart and to have aheart like his heart is all I
(17:46):
would know to say.
I mean, it's not a magicalthing, it's a God thing and it's
spending time with the Lord and, I think, just having the
underlying, knowing in yourspirit that if I do the right
thing before the Lord and thisis in your, you know.
This is at home.
This is doing the right thingwhen home.
This is doing the right thingwhen nobody knows.
(18:06):
You're doing the right thing.
And if I'm in the secret placewith the Lord and I am asking
him to shift me and to help meto forgive, help me know what
that looks like to walk outforgiveness.
Help me to learn to pray for myenemy, even when I want to
shoot my own fiery darts, letalone the enemy.
(18:29):
And just getting a vision, Ithink in our minds that man, if
I want to go where God wants totake me, this circumstance, this
person is not worth me notgetting where God has for me to
go.
I mean, it's a point you knowGod does want to reward his
children and you know, I thinksometimes Christians want to
(18:50):
stay away from like, oh well,I'm just getting.
You know we got to do this forthe right reason.
Sometimes you do things becauseyou know that God's going to
reward you and you know thathopefully he's going to
transform you along the way, butdoing it because you know
there's a reward.
I, and you know that hopefullyhe's going to transform you
along the way, but doing itbecause you know there's a
reward.
I don't think that's a badthing.
We teach children to obey theirparents and we reward them or
(19:13):
their consequences.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
When it's like that, saying like obedience equals
success, have you heard thatbefore?
Yes, like this is a absoluteobedience.
Uh, step right, because we andI've I've had to do this too in
my journey and it's almost likeI I'm just being real here.
It's kind of like you know thelittle kid when they're like
(19:36):
stomping, you're like really,yes, and then the heart shift
happens when you pray, when youbless others, when you step away
from all the hurt, all thefeelings, all of the like.
But why, me Right, did youexperience that, those moments?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I mean absolutely, and throwing fence before the
Lord is a real thing.
I mean David did it.
I, yes, I have.
I think that David did it.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
I, yes, I have.
That's where Psalms came out of, I believe.
What did you say?
That's where Psalms came out of.
He's like this sucks, but God,like I always think of that.
I'm like okay, he did it, I cando it too.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Absolutely.
And sometimes yeah, I meansometimes I just want to scream
and say, lord, this is not fair.
And you know, because you knowwe have the tendency in our
humanness to look at others whoappear from the outside that
they're just floating along inlife.
We're thinking, lord, can Ijust have a piece of that please
(20:43):
?
But I don't know.
I think that being raw and openwith the Lord and throwing your
fit with him and then knowingthat he still loves you, I think
that is one of the mostbeautiful things is to realize
that man, even in our darkestmoments I mean many years ago,
my husband and I went through avery, very dark season where it
(21:04):
was 2008, the crash happened andmy husband's a graphic designer
and most of his clientele werechurches and non-profits, and so
when the crash happened andfinances got tight, you know,
most churches and non-profitswould stop paying for extra
things like design.
We had to close, my husband'scompany, lay off employees and
(21:29):
we ended up walking throughbankruptcy.
And it was the darkest time ofmy life that I had walked
through up to that time.
And you talk about throwing afit and just, and not only that,
just feeling shame and, likeyou, were walking through
something that a Christianshouldn't walk through.
(21:51):
And walking through that season, god taught me a couple of
things, but one of the thingsthat he taught me was there is
no dark place on this earth thathe will not go with his sons
and daughters.
Say that again there's no darkplace that God will not go with
(22:14):
his sons and daughters, nomatter how it makes you feel, no
matter how dark it is.
I realized in that season, youknow, there were times where I
mean frankly, my, it was myhusband.
We had to close down thebusiness.
He we lived in St Louis,missouri at the time, and he
began looking for work.
The only job that opened up wasin Loveland, colorado, and at
(22:37):
another Christian publishinghouse, and so he actually moved.
But we couldn't sell our houseimmediately.
It was up for sale but becauseof the crash, there were
foreclosures in our neighborhood.
So every month we were loweringthe price of our house to match
the foreclosure prices, becauseyou couldn't sell a house.
It took us 13 months to sellour home.
(22:59):
So my husband was physically inColorado.
I was physically in St Louisfor over a year with two small
children.
I had to close things down forhis business, go to the lawyer's
office by myself, do a lot ofthese things that just felt
really dark and shameful.
But I will tell you oneparticular there's really two,
(23:24):
actually there's really a lot,but I'll just focus in on this
one particular experience whereI was walking into the lawyer's
office and I just felt so muchshame and just like, okay, the
Lord's done with me, that's whatit felt like and just felt so
much darkness.
And you know that the enemy, hedoesn't play fair.
(23:44):
When you're already down, hejust comes along and kicks you
in the darkness.
And so I definitely felt thatway.
But when I walked into thelawyer's office, something
shifted.
They heard our story and theytook a look at the facts and
they looked at me and saidyou're the reason people like
you.
What you went through is whybankruptcy was created and they
(24:10):
were not believers.
But all of a sudden I just feltGod's peace, just come into the
room and just envelop me.
And I walked out of thatlawyer's office just with so
much peace.
I walked in, felt intimidation,felt shame, felt alone, just
(24:32):
felt like I was in the middle ofthe darkness and walked out
with so much peace.
And yet nothing had shifted,except for God's presence, came
in and shifted my perspective.
And I think often in life, nomatter what we're facing, we
just need to get in the presenceof God.
And yeah, I was in the lawyer'soffice.
Believe it or not, the presenceof God can show up anywhere.
(24:53):
And I think sometimes we forgetthat.
Yeah, we forget that.
You know God doesn't not go incertain places, but you know God
doesn't not go in certainplaces.
He sees his children, no matterwhere we are, and he can show
(25:14):
up in beautiful and amazing ways.
And when I walked out of thatoffice, I didn't know how I was
even going to pay the lawyerfees.
But within a short period oftime, my husband had called me
and he had been out to lunchthat day in Colorado and someone
had felt to give him a checkand it was for the exact amount
we needed.
And so, in the middle of thatdarkness, god placed it on
(25:38):
someone's heart to pay thelawyer fees.
They didn't know it was forthat, they didn't even know what
we were walking through.
But I look back at that and I,you know the enemy puts all the
shame on you and you know hejust he'll come in.
I mean, we, we feel it enoughourselves, and then he just adds
to it.
And I just think how graciousthe Lord was to me in that
(26:01):
moment and did so many miracles.
Did it deliver us from theoverall situation, but did so
many miracles in the darknessthat it just tattooed deep
within my heart, like this faithin the Lord, that, okay, he
goes anywhere with me and nomatter how devastating it is, no
(26:23):
matter what I have to face, amI going to be okay?
Because if God is with me, whocan be against me?
And I think you know whetherwe're talking about facing
enemies or whether we're talkingabout just a circumstance that
feels like an overarching enemyin our life.
God's presence changes theatmosphere of the rooms we walk
(26:45):
in and changes the atmosphere ofour hearts, which changes our
perspective and how we show upin the world.
And I am so thankful for that,because I cannot imagine walking
through some of the thingswe've walked through without
being able to come and be ableto share with you or share with
somebody in the grocery store.
I remember thinking I am nevertelling anybody that we've
(27:06):
walked through this because,even though I saw God show up,
there was still an element of,you know, shame.
It's not like you're going togo around and announce when
you're going through a verydifficult circumstance like that
, and I thought I don't want totalk about this, I don't want to
tell people about this, and itwould amaze me how I would run
(27:30):
into somebody somewhere and theywould start sharing with me the
difficult financialcircumstance they were in, or
something that was along thoselines, and how God would prompt
me to encourage them.
And now I can share about itwithout bawling, and so I'm
super thankful for that.
But I love how God's presencehe is with us, and so you know
(27:50):
what I look at it this way IfGod is asking me to pray for my
enemy, um I I don't want tochance losing the power of his
spirit being activated in mylife, because I'm stubborn, and
I'm stubborn y'all.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Are you the oldest?
I am yes.
Okay, me too.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, and God often has to bombard me, you know,
with um, with his truth andcause.
I don't always obey him when hejust tells me to.
So I don't know, Kristen, ifyou can relate to that.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I mean I've gotten quicker.
Well, I used to try to.
You know, like, like you said,talking about arguing, you know,
arguing with offense posts.
Like my parents said, I shouldhave been a lawyer when I was
growing up, because I just Iwant to know the deeper meaning
behind things and a lot of timeswhat the Lord calls us to do
(28:50):
doesn't make sense, right?
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Absolutely.
So, that's what I'll just sayit's not.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
it's that analytical side that confronts like I'm a
very free spirited girl now,like I've become so free
spirited, but the analyticalside will try to come in and try
to make sense of everything.
I'll have to be like, oh well,this isn't making sense.
Can you, can you make sense ofthis?
I don't want to do this unlessyou give me all of it.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Right, I and I hear you completely and, like you
said, I've gotten quicker, butthere are still moments where I
definitely wrestle with the Lorda little bit.
But I do, I am faster to obeybecause I know when he's saying
it there's got to be somethinghe has for me that is going to
(29:38):
shift things in some way.
Whether it's just doing heartsurgery on me, I mean I don't
like it.
But I remember reading I thinkit was like TJ Jakes or somebody
had written about the fact thata knife is used in surgery and
a knife is also used if someonegets stabbed, but the intent
(30:01):
behind it is when you havesurgery, the intent is to heal
Behind a stabbing or somethinglike that, the intent is to kill
and it's the intent thatmatters.
And so I know when God isasking me to do things, that I
mean usually when he asked me todo something.
If he's having to ask me,usually it's something I don't
initially want to do, if we'rejust honest about it, because if
(30:29):
he was asking me, then thatmeans I'm not doing it, I would
already be doing it if I thoughtI should you know and he has to
ask you, is that?
Speaker 1 (30:33):
is that what you're saying?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
yes, I mean you know most with us.
Yeah, most of us don't justalways want to jump to do their
hard right thing you know we'relooking for.
I don't know, at least I am,I'll speak for myself.
I'm usually looking for thequickest, easiest route that'll
be the least amount of pain.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, I mean that's, that's, that's our flesh, I mean
that's, I think that's honestlylike what we've been.
Um, just that's what the worldwants.
Yes, right, it's like theInstapot, you know, like, give
me it fast, give me it easy,give me it painless, right.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yes, absolutely, and yeah, the quickest version of it
.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
you know and.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
God works through process, as much as I don't
always like that.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
And process takes time, no-transcript like biggest
faith leap that you've taken,that you've had to kind of
wrestled out with the lure andthen you were like, okay, I'm
doing this thing um, so I will.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
My husband and I together have had plenty of
leaps of faith, but for mepersonally, um, we left Colorado
about three years after livingthere and we ended up in Madison
, mississippi.
Um, was definitely somethingthat the Lord organized.
We couldn't have organized itand just getting here was a huge
(32:11):
step of faith.
But once we got here, um, wewere coming underneath a pastor
and his wife and going to helpin ministry.
But I looked at my husband andI said this is your thing.
This was a huge transition.
I mean, we had lived in StLouis, missouri, for 14 years,
(32:34):
then Colorado for three, and nowwe're making another big move
to Mississippi.
And I didn't know anythingabout the South and my husband
said he'd never live in theSouth.
So you can see how God's senseof humor is is just so
interesting.
And so we end up in the Southand then we're, you know,
stepping in to helping out at achurch and leadership in various
(32:57):
ways, and I just literally saidI want to be low key, I want to
stay in the background, I wantto help my kids with this
transition.
And, yeah, god didn't listen tome.
My husband listened, but Goddidn't.
So within a, very literally,within like two months, the
(33:19):
pastor's wife was asking me tolead a small group to encourage
moms.
And I thought to myself like Idon't want to do this.
But I just didn't feel like Ihad anything to give in that
season and I just thought I justdon't want to do this.
But for some reason I decidedto say yes.
(33:41):
I think it was more of Godprompting me and so I said yes.
Now small groups are so common.
But I mean, this was I don'tknow.
I just thought, god, I havenothing to give, I don't want to
lead other people and I juststarted.
I had to go depend upon him.
(34:02):
I literally had to go seek himevery week and say Lord, what do
you want me to share with thesewomen?
And what I had no clue aboutwas was this was just a tiny,
tiny step of what he was askingme to step into.
Because, just like two monthsafter that, the pastor's wife
asked me if I would startleading a women's class on a
Sunday morning, and in thefacility that we were in, the
(34:26):
women's class took place in acoffee shop or like a cafe area
at the church that was open,really, to anybody, so it wasn't
even like a private space forwomen.
And so she was asking me totrade off teaching the women
that would come for that andreally anybody who was walking
by.
And I didn't want to.
(34:47):
I thought, okay, the smallgroup was enough.
Lord, like I already havestepped into that, what are you
doing?
And I had no desire, like I wasenjoying attending this women's
class and soaking in from thewisdom of the women who were
pouring into us and I'm thinkingI am perfectly fine right where
(35:10):
I'm at.
But so my pastor's wife at thattime she had a way with the Lord
, because when she came to askyou to do something, what that
really meant was she had alreadysought the Lord.
Because when she came to askyou to do something, what that
really meant was she had alreadysought the Lord and she had
already been praying and theLord had already dropped your
name into her heart.
And so when she came and asked,it was already certain that God
(35:34):
was at work and she had themindset of you know what, if
this person says no, they'remissing out on the blessing that
the Lord has for them.
And if they say yes, then youknow God has been working on
them and we're going to see whathe does.
And so she never let theoutcome bother her and she loved
(35:54):
asking people to step up and toserve and to step into things
they were uncomfortable doing.
That never fazed her.
And so when she came and askedme my literal thoughts, well,
she was looking me in the eye,was over my dead body, but as I
left, um, I felt, like you know,she, she, she's very smart,
(36:17):
like you know she's very smart.
So she did not ask me again forthe next couple of weeks and
she just was quiet as she prayedand I really started feeling
like God began to tap me on theshoulder and say Joelle, if you
say no to her, you're saying noto me, and it brings tears to,
(36:44):
you know, swell up of emotioninside of me because I knew that
that was a point in my lifewhere I could either step up and
allow God to work through meand, yeah, you know, someone can
look at this and say, okay,that's just teaching a women's
class, joelle.
Like that's not that big of adeal In my life.
Like I didn't want to be up infront leading people.
I didn't desire to speak infront of people, made it through
the speech class in college,but I'm not a great memorizer.
(37:07):
And so you have the peoplearound you who are great at
memorizing facts or memorizingscripture, and I'm thinking, ok,
I'll know the gist of ascripture, but I might know it
came out of James, but I may notremember it was James 4a, and
so I don't want to be thatperson up in front that
everybody is looking at.
And you start looking at yourown insecurities.
And then, and I and I, just Ididn't know what I didn't know.
(37:31):
But when I heard God's voicesay you're going to, if you say
no, you're saying no to me Iknew that I had a choice, and
this choice was bigger thanwhether I was going to teach a
women's class or not.
And so, as scared as I was, whenmy pastor's wife came back to
(37:51):
me and of course she did I washoping she'd forgotten.
But she came back and I saidbut she came back and I said yes
, and I will never forget thefirst Sunday that I taught my.
You know, I was holding amicrophone.
My hand was shaking which isway more obvious when you're
(38:16):
holding a microphone and Istarted sharing.
And then, all of a sudden, I wassharing the scripture where the
Lord is talking to Moses and hesays I am that I am, and there
was something about thatscripture that I just felt the
anointing, the presence of Godcome over me and in my heart and
mind I just said, lord, I'll dowhat you asked me to do if you
(38:37):
show up like this every time.
I'll do what you asked me to doif you show up like this every
time.
And so that changed me in somany ways, because over the next
seven years that we were underthis pastor and his wife before
they retired, again and againthey asked me to step up and do
things that I didn't want to doin my flesh, and again and again
(38:58):
I just felt like God promptingme.
If you say no, you're saying noto me, and I want to say to to
some people who are out there.
You know there are times wherepeople are asking you to do
things and God may not tell youthat and no is a real answer.
So say no.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Yes, that's a whole other topic.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yes.
Don't say yes because you'refeeling pressured or you know
because you feel like, oh, thisis the right thing to do, so to
speak, you know, to impresspeople or whatever that looks
like, because I'm going to tellyou all right now that if I
would have done that, I think Iwould have got up and failed.
But it is because the Lord was,you know, it was like him and I
(39:40):
worked out this deal Okay, I'llshow up.
If you show up, he's like I'mgoing to show up and I'm like,
okay, I'll show up.
I think when you have a heart,even if you're scared out of
your mind.
You know, several years laterbecause that was like in 2013
and 2015, my pastor asked me tospeak on Mother's Day.
My pastor asked me to speak onMother's Day and I thought he
(40:06):
meant to the women's group orthe women's class that I had at
that time, been at for severalyears.
But he looked at me kind ofstrange because I replied so
quickly.
And then I looked at himstrange and said you mean big
church, mean big church.
(40:26):
In 2015, I spoke on Mother'sDay to our whole church, which
was like running three to 400people at that time and scared
out of my mind.
One thing I've realized is whenI, when I get ready to get up
and speak, the few momentsbefore my brain knows nothing.
I couldn't tell you onescripture or one focus or point
from my notes.
I feel like it is this total.
(40:47):
It's sort of like I've jumpedoff the cliff and I can't see
where I'm going to land and Ijust have to trust that God's
going to meet me there.
And so definitely had one ofthose moments again and that
experience.
But on that platform God met methere and ever since, I mean
when God has put somethingbefore me, you know, I'm
(41:09):
stopping and I'm praying and I'mlike Lord, is this really what
you want me to do?
Because if you want me to do it, I'm going to trust you.
I even though I feel horrible,the butterflies are going and I
feel like I've just jumped outof an airplane and I don't know
where I'm going to land and ifI'm going to be okay.
But I'm trusting that you havea safety net for me.
And so for me, just answeringthat call over and over again,
(41:34):
because God doesn't usually askus to do things that are in our
comfort zone.
Usually it's things that areoutside of our comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Absolutely so powerful, I mean literally like
a leap of faith, truly.
And I guess my question to youand maybe others are wondering
like has has that kind of theanxiousness or the, you know,
not able to think kind ofsituation, has that eased up
over the years since you'vestarted stepping out and
(42:04):
speaking more, coming out, Iwould say coming out of hiding,
in essence, yeah, so Idefinitely.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
You know, I taught in our women's class and learn to
lead, you know, every Sunday,and so in some regard it got a
little bit more comfortable.
But I will say this too, thatwhen you're stepping out and
you're walking in your callingand you're doing what God has
asked you to do, there's warfarethat comes with that.
And so I also remember Sundaymornings being very difficult,
(42:35):
because something seemed toalways happen with our children,
or something like that, eitheron Saturday night or Sunday
morning.
And so, even though thenervousness about just getting
up and speaking may haveslightly lessened and I felt
more comfortable, not because ofanything but the fact that I
knew God would show up and if Iprepared, I knew that he wasn't
(42:58):
going to leave me, and so Ibegan to trust in that knowing.
But that didn't take away fromall the obstacles that would
come.
And I remember there beingSundays where walking into
church if I'm just honest withyou, feeling angry because I had
to deal with, you know, my kidsfighting or whatever that
(43:19):
looked like and saying, oh, mygoodness, lord, how am I
supposed to walk into a room andtalk about your mighty power
and love when I'm ready to wringsomebody's neck right now and
just me having to learn to.
Not because I was being um, notthat you go in and you're
presenting something different,because I'm not talking about
(43:40):
being a hypocrite, because manytimes I would share with the
women.
I may not have shared thedetails, but I would share the
gist of maybe something I walkedthrough that week to help them
know that, man, I am just likeyou, like I get in the mud of
life and it gets all over me.
And just because I come tochurch looking clean and put
(44:01):
together doesn't mean I don'texperience versions of what you
don't experience.
And so, if anything, it helpedbuild a rawness and an openness
in me to share, because that Iknow that when I listen to other
people speak, I relate topeople who are not perfect.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yes, and I was.
I was going to ask a questionaround that in essence, like who
do you most relate to?
I don't know about you, but Itend to relate to the underdog.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
I relate to the ones who aren't perfectly put
together, you know, though, itwasn't easy, and we went through
a lot of difficult things inthose seven years underneath
this pastor and his wife, justin life not because of them, but
(44:48):
just in life.
But it was just so powerfulbecause I realized that people
needed they don't need to hearevery detail of your story, but
they need to know that you havehad a rough time, that things
aren't always perfect in yourlife, and not only that.
I feel like I flourishedbecause my pastor's wife was one
(45:08):
who would encourage me andshare with me stories of the
things that they went through,and their life was not perfect.
I don't think I could haveministered underneath a pastor
and wife where everything justseemed like it all slowed,
because I couldn't relate tothat.
So there's definitely thataspect.
(45:29):
Back to your other questionabout the nervousness.
What I saw God do is, wheneverhe would place me in a new
situation so say, in front of adifferent group of people
ministering to a different group, maybe a larger group, maybe it
wasn't just women, maybe it wasa couple of times I got, you
know, asked to speak at otherlocal churches here, just
(45:51):
different things like that Iwould definitely feel that
nervousness come back in, but Ilearned to treat it as a friend,
because when you know the fearis going to come.
But if you know the fear isgoing to come and you kind of
(46:12):
look at it like, okay, the fearis going to come because, yeah,
I'm doing something hard andscary, it's something different
than I've done before, so thisreally just means that God's
going to show up and he's goingto help me.
So I'm probably doing the rightthing.
And I just learned to convincemyself of this Not that it
didn't take it away, but I thinkthat because God is always
(46:32):
placing us in new situations,he's always trying to stretch us
, and so, just as we may youknow, have you ever got to a
place with the Lord, kristen,where you're like, okay, god, I
think I've learned this lessonLike, are we doing this again?
Right, you know, you startgetting comfortable and you
think, okay, I got it, I got it.
(46:53):
And then it's like somethingcomes at you at a new angle and
you find yourself going aroundthe circle again with the Lord.
I think doing hard and scarythings is kind of like that,
because it you do it once andyou do it in a certain area, and
then God asks you to do it adifferent way and with the in a
new area, and he's going tostretch you all over again, and
so I think the fact that itdoesn't go completely away is
(47:15):
actually our saving grace,because it keeps us depending
upon him.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Absolutely, and it and it really.
I I've said that many timesbecause, you know, just even
starting this podcast, 2023, heshowed me, like this is the year
of the stretch, with your voice, and I was like, oh, so what
are we doing?
But one of the things similarto what you said, you know that,
yes, right, he showed me ifit's in alignment, just say yes.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Yeah, we'll take care of it that is so good.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
We like being stretched in areas that we would
rather just not be stretched in.
Like easy it's easier.
But we get to be an example ofum.
You know, in essence it's it'skind of like the underdog.
Like I said, I love theunderdog, I love the ones that
are chosen that don't really fitthe whole bill.
(48:07):
You know what I Like um it.
It's that much more powerfulbecause it is it's the Lord
working through us to do thething that we thought we could
never do, right.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Well, and I not only doing the thing we thought we
could never do, but what I foundin it was I didn't realize I
had a passion to teach andencourage women in their faith
and help them overcome obstaclesso they could step into their
calling.
Like I didn't know, I couldn'thave said those words to you had
(48:42):
I not walked through this andfirst of all seeing my pastor's
wife call it out in me and thennow not I get the opportunity to
call it out in others.
But I couldn't even have toldyou that that was my passion had
I not walked through this.
And I think that's often whatGod wants to give us is like
these diamonds.
(49:03):
You know he's like I have thesetreasures for you, but if you
won't step through this hard andscary door, like, you're not
even going to know that you evenwould have wanted that treasure
.
So true, yeah, I wouldn't even.
I wouldn't have no one to askfor that.
And then, in the middle of that,you know other treasures I
found, which look different inevery person's life.
But I actually found that Ienjoyed the studying to, the
(49:27):
prepping to teach almost just asmuch, because the teaching kind
of scared me if that's what Ihad to grow into, but the
studying and the preparing andwhat God would highlight to me.
And and then I realized throughthat I had a passion for
writing because I just wouldpour myself into it.
Or, initially, more out of justbeing scared, I wanted to be
(49:50):
over-prepared because I didn'twant to get up and have nothing
to say to people, and so I wasgiving God lots to work with, I
think, just more out of feelingincompetent to some degree, but
then realized that I had apassion for that.
And so I think that there arethings that God's like saying to
his daughters and his sons likeI want to show you things you
(50:11):
know not of, but I can't showyou if you won't step through
this door with me, if you won'tstep into this season with me
and you won't embrace the hardand scary.
You know.
There's so many things I feellike we miss out on.
Not only do we miss out on thedependency and the intimacy with
the Lord, but then just in thatdiscovery process, because part
(50:33):
of discovering who we are andwhat God has called us to do is
discovering what we don't likeand what we do and what excites
us and what doesn't.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
Oh my gosh, so much goodness here I'm telling you.
You know what I'm hearing justin a phrase.
It's like in the pressing comesthe passion.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Yes, that is so good, kristen, you can say that.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I mean seriously and a lot of times.
You know what I.
What I find in my heart is tosee women continue on, because
too often, like, the temptationis to give up before you even
get to that place where youyou're so close to the treasure.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Yes, right, you're so close to the treasure and I
would say treasures because youknow we're all always walking
through something.
I mean it's sort of the natureof this life.
I mean I say to people all thetime, you know, problems fall in
your lap.
You have to fight for joy, andso we're all always experiencing
(51:38):
things in this life and weusually, you know, if we could,
we would opt out of the problemsand just take all the joy, or
just give me all the joy and letme just here for a little bit.
But as much as I don't want tosign up for the problems and I'm
never will put my name on alist that says heartache and
(52:00):
pain and difficulty but at thesame time, there, there, I think
that there are ongoingtreasures that God wants to give
us that we wouldn't take thetime to see, otherwise we just
would walk right past them.
Because you have to dig in thedirt often to find the treasure.
And if you're digging in thedirt, it means you're getting
messy and life is probably notgoing the exact way you thought
(52:22):
it would, and so I don't know ifthis could be an encouragement
to anybody.
I don't know if this could bean encouragement to anybody.
But if you find yourself in thedarkness and you feel like
you're digging, and that youknow digging deep, and all you
can see is mud, you're not aloneand there are treasures that
God has there for you.
I know there's my kind ofwalking through a tough season
(52:44):
right now in certain aspects,and one of the things I felt
like the Lord was telling me inthis past two weeks is dig
deeper.
And honestly, kristen, thoseare not the words I wanted to
hear from him.
You know, I wanted to hear I'mlifting you out, I'm releasing
you.
You know, things are shiftingimmediately.
(53:05):
But he said dig deeper.
And I'm like Lord, what is thatmean?
In the season, Because I feellike I'm already digging deep
and I literally Googled likewhat did it look like to dig a
well in Bible days?
And because I thought, okay, nowwe have equipment, so it looks
far different, you know.
And when I Googled it, it saidthat they would dig wells with
(53:27):
their hands or whatever form ofshovel that they may have had
back then, and they had to becareful because when you go down
deep enough, the sides couldcave in.
And I just thought, wow, lord.
So it is truly a walk by faith.
When God is asking you to digdeep, you're trusting that the
walls aren't going to cave in,that he's got you and you know,
(53:50):
really, if you don't want to seemud, you have to look up.
And looking up is from.
You know from where our helpcomes from and so you know.
I'm just, I'm thankful thateven when God is asking us to
dig deep and to cultivate,whatever that looks like in our
lives, you know the intimacywith him, the trying to see the
(54:13):
treasures in the darkness, evenwhen we're having a hard time
seeing them, that God reallydoes have good things for his
sons and daughters and man boy.
Do we have to dig in the wordof God and really trust what the
word says about the Lord'scharacter?
And really trust what the wordsays about the Lord's character
and that he is a good father andthat if his children, you know,
(54:33):
ask for bread, he will not giveus a stone?
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Oh, so good.
It has been a joy to have youon here today.
I think we'll have to have youback on for more.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
I think my favorite thing is just to encourage
people and for somebody to knowthey are not alone.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
Well, I was going to ask.
So at the end of every episode,I like to ask if you could just
get in mind that one who'slistening in today.
Do you have anything else you'dlike to say to her, and would
you pray us out today?
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Absolutely.
I would love to Kristen.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
You know if you're walking through a tough season,
I would say be really carefulwhat you're telling yourself.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
What we tell ourselves is what we tend to
believe, which is why God callsus to really be in his word and
to replace our words with his.
And something that really stoodout to me was the woman with the
issue of blood, and she's inthree of the four gospels
mentioned, and her name is notmentioned.
(55:45):
But what is mentioned is whatshe was telling herself, and it
says in the scripture that shewas telling herself if I can
just touch the hem of hisgarment, I will be healed.
And that has ministered to me,because it is so important for
(56:06):
us to get God's promises deepwithin us, even if it's just one
, for you to hold on to andbegin to tell yourself a
different story than whatcircumstances are telling you.
You have held on to nothingelse, like it, but just hold on
(56:33):
and trust that what God is doing, he is going to do something
good on the behalf of hisdaughter or son, and he is a
good father.
So that's what I would say tothe one Just watch what you are
telling yourself, because theenemy wants to whisper in your
ear and have you to tellyourself things that will lead
you down a hopeless road.
And so man do whatever it takes, but don't let that happen.
(56:57):
And so, kristen, are you okay?
if I go ahead and pray this outyes, okay, lord, I am just so
thankful for who you are.
Lord, I'm thankful that you arethe God who sees your children.
You go with us into the placesthat we would never choose maybe
(57:18):
to walk through or in, but youare there with us and, lord, I
thank you that.
For any listener right now,that is like I'm in a place you
know, and this does not feelgood.
Lord, I thank you that.
For any listener right now,that is like I'm in a place you
know, and this does not feelgood.
Lord, I just pray that yourpowerful presence meets them
right where they are right now.
Lord, your presence changes theatmosphere of our hearts, it
(57:39):
changes the atmosphere of rooms,it shifts perspective and so,
lord, I just thank you for theone.
I thank you, lord, that you areour one, that we can keep our
eyes in you.
In 2 Chronicles 2.20,.
Somewhere in there in thatchapter, it talks about when
Jehoshaphat was being faced withan enemy that was coming
(58:01):
against him and they were goingto have to fight the battle.
There's a verse in there thatsays, lord, we don't know what
to do, but we're keeping oureyes on you and so, lord, may we
keep our eyes on you today.
May we not look to the left orto the right or to the
circumstances that feel likethey're pressing in the darkness
(58:22):
that feels like it is pressingin, but may we look up and may
we look to where our help comesfrom, knowing that you are
fighting battles upon our behalf.
May we hear your voice and bemore sensitive to your spirit
and to your voice than we everhave before.
And if you're asking us to stepout and to do something that
(58:42):
doesn't make sense and you'retapping us on the shoulder and
you're saying, hey, you know,I'm asking you to do this, this
is the Lord.
If you say no, you're saying noto me.
Lord, I just pray you help us totake courage to step out by
faith, trusting that you haveour backs and that nothing is
impossible for you.
(59:03):
In fact, the impossible willbecome inevitable in your hands.
And so may you just grow ourtrust, grow our faith, help us
to become more steadfast in yourpromises, help us to just
plunge deeper into your word,that we may know it more than
our own words.
That when we're looking atcircumstances that feel
(59:25):
uncomfortable, that feelpressing, that feel painful,
that we can literally say toourselves, we can look around
and see what's happening andthen say, even though this is
what I see, this is the word ofGod and this is what I am
believing, and so I'm going tostand firm on the promises of
(59:48):
God.
And so, lord, I just thank youfor a strengthening of your body
.
I thank you, lord, that you areraising up mighty warriors,
even those of ones of us who maynot always want to fight, lord,
but I pray that you arestrengthening us, you are
calling us forward, you areequipping us and you are
empowering us to do everythingon this side of heaven that you
have spoken over us to do.
And, lord, I thank you for itand I just pray.
(01:00:10):
Blessings upon every listenerand upon Kristen, and just
multiplication and blessing overthis podcast, in Jesus name,
amen.
Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Amen.
You are a powerhouse girl.
Love it Well.
Thank you for being a bravevoice.
Who's setting others free.
I'm going to close with theanchoring verse for Hope,
unlocked it's.
May the God of hope fill youwith all joy and peace and
believing, so that, by the powerof the Holy Spirit, you may
abound in hope.
And that's Romans 15, 13.
So I will have Joelle's contactinformation in the show notes
(01:00:46):
If you want to get ahold of hersocial media, all the places.
It'll be there and I will beback with another episode next
week.
Thanks, listeners, and thankyou again, joelle.
Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
You are so welcome.
It was such an honor.
Thank you.
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