October 24, 2023 • 44 mins
Have you ever wondered about the powerful role community plays in the journey of sobriety? Our enlightening conversation with Sonia, founder of Everbloom, shines a revealing light on this often overlooked factor. Sonia's personal journey of recovery from alcohol dependence, fraught with challenges, highlights the critical role of a robust support system and that ultimately led to the creation of Everbloom, a platform providing that much-needed community for those battling similar struggles.
Our discussion transcends the usual, focusing on creating genuine connections within the sobriety community. Sonia shares how she uses technology to craft a unique approach, going beyond the traditional drop-in model to match users with similar experiences. The idea of a virtual network is particularly significant for those in rural areas where physical support networks may be sparse. Sonia also takes us through the common barriers to achieving sobriety, from societal stigma to fear of judgment, and the connection that "hustle culture" can have to substance misuse.
This episode isn't just about the struggles; it's about transformation, self-discovery, and most importantly, finding hope. Sonia shares invaluable insights into her journey, the role of self-care, and the need to foster a hopeful outlook on the future.
We also discuss the various levels of Everbloom membership, the importance of engagement, and how the platform fosters a safe, non-judgmental space for users to explore their relationship with alcohol.
Come join us in this captivating conversation that not only explores the journey of recovery but examines the role of culture, technology, and community in this path to wellness.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christina McKelvy (00:00):
Welcome to Apology Stories of Hope, healing
and Resilience.
I'm your host, christinaMcKelvie.
Today we speak with Sonia.
She's the founder of Everbloom,an online platform that helps
provide support with alcoholrecovery through community.
We explore her own personalstory about recovery and how she
saw the need for that increasedcommunity support, which led
(00:20):
her to create Everbloom.
Please join us as we delve intothis interesting topic about
sobriety and what that means.
We'll be right back MUSIC.
Welcome to Apology Stories ofHope, healing and Resilience.
(00:55):
I'm your host, christinaMcKelvie.
Today we're going to bespeaking to Sonia from Everbloom
.
How are you doing, sonia?
Sonia (01:03):
I'm really good, Christina.
How are you today?
Christina McKelvy (01:05):
I'm doing well, thank you.
It's a little warm, it is thesummer and at least where I'm
from it's really warm.
Sonia (01:15):
Yeah, it's beautiful here .
I'm in Pennsylvania OK.
Christina McKelvy (01:18):
OK, pennsylvania yeah, I've been
having this weird.
I don't know if it's weird, butI have been having this
fascination with wanting tovisit the East Coast, like
Vermont, rhode Island, you know,kid Cod, and I've been getting
Instagram ads because I thinkInstagram reach your mind.
Sonia (01:38):
Yeah, that was reach your mind.
Christina McKelvy (01:41):
So just tons of ads about the East Coast, so
I'll have to make it out there.
The furthest seats I've beenwas Maryland, and it was lovely.
You know it was in ChescapiqueBay, I think that's how you say
it.
Yeah, chescapique, yeah, yeah,and Blue Water Crab, it was
great.
So it's the furthest east I'veever been have to do an East
Coast.
Sonia (02:01):
A fall East Coast trip is amazing.
Christina McKelvy (02:04):
Yes, ok, well , I'm writing that down and I
will travel out to the EastCoast one of these falls, or
more recent, because this summerhere where I'm at on the West
Coast is torturous.
So, sonia, tell me a little bitabout yourself, or tell our
audiences a little bit aboutyourself and your platform,
everbloom.
Sonia (02:25):
Yeah, so I'm Sonia and I've been in recovery for six
years and originally I was anorthodontist and I built a
really big practice and thewhole time I was building it I
was just drinking more and moreto deal with the stress.
And when I sold the business Igot sober and I was doing really
(02:46):
well.
But it wasn't really out andproud with my sobriety and most
of the reason why I think myhusband at the time wasn't super
comfortable with that idea thathis wife was like an addict,
right and so, and thought itsort of like, you know, had this
stigma.
If I said I'm sober and so alot of times I would notice like
he would jump in and tellpeople, oh, she doesn't drink
(03:08):
and wouldn't.
I didn't really get into thesober thing, but he went on
Expand on that.
Yeah, I wouldn't expand on it.
And then you know, like youjust know instinctively not to.
You know what I mean, whatyou're like.
Okay, I'm not going to expandon it either, because I think
there was a reason, you knowdoes it that way?
And so, yeah, then I started tokind of get more into it.
(03:28):
I started writing a little bitabout my sobriety, I started
making images and they got intogalleries and the writing was
getting published and I thinkthe more that happened, probably
the more uncomfortable hebecame, and for 18 years he got
up and left like without anywarning, I'm sorry I know it was
(03:51):
devastating, and so when thathappened I thought there's
absolutely no way I'm going tostay sober and there's no reason
, because my life has been likeblown to pieces.
So I, you know, the first fewweeks were just so tough and I
really didn't know if I wasgoing to make it without
drinking, and I really did justgo back to the one day at a time
(04:14):
, which I hadn't done in fiveyears.
And while I was doing that Ithought, you know, I really need
a sober community.
Like I need support from peoplethat have gone through like not
necessarily the exact samething, but something similar,
like a really tough situation,and have to kind of maintain
their sobriety.
And also I'm pretty introvertedand I didn't want to talk in a
(04:37):
big group with people I didn'tknow.
So I was like is there any waythat there's like a consistent
group that I would see likeevery week the same people, so I
didn't have to go through mylike sob story every time, like
I was sober five years and thenmy husband left and then you
know, and so nice of people knewthat.
And so kind of like friendsright, like my friends, I didn't
(04:59):
have to go into it, you know,each time and I looked and I
really couldn't find it.
And so I thought, if I'm goingthrough this right and I was so
lucky, I had like five years ofsobriety, I had a super strong
support system with my family, Iwas financially stable I cannot
imagine if any of those thingsweren't there, how much more
(05:23):
difficult this would be.
And it's got to be somethingthat other people are looking
for.
And so, yeah, I kind of did alot of research and was like I
really don't need to startanother business, but let me
check out and see if it's outthere.
And it wasn't.
And so I just slowly startedinterviewing people in recovery,
really trying to solidify thefact that it wasn't out there.
(05:45):
It wasn't.
And so I made it.
Christina McKelvy (05:49):
You saw a need and you stepped in to meet
that need.
It sounds like the lack ofsupport and community for those
that are continuing on withsobriety, because it's a little
different with your friends.
Sonia (06:05):
Like you mentioned, you had friends, but they might have
not understood your journey andyeah, I didn't want to worry
people, I didn't want to worrymy family and friends by saying,
thinking I'd go pick up abottle of alcohol.
They were being so different inevery other way that I just and
they'd been through theaddiction and I didn't want to.
(06:28):
It just seemed unfair in asense to bring it up and be like
hey, now you have to babysit me, so I don't drink.
So, yeah, it's different whenyou have friends that they my
family doesn't drink a lot butthey're not sober and I think it
takes a sober person tounderstand that specific
struggle.
Christina McKelvy (06:48):
Yeah, that's actually a really good point
that it's hard to connect withor understand, have empathy or
insight into someone's struggleif you have not been there
yourself.
Sonia (07:01):
Yeah, because that is my heaviest coping mechanism.
Things are as bad as they canget.
I didn't have the copingmechanisms for something that
enormous and that's hard forpeople to understand who don't
automatically default to drugsand alcohol.
(07:22):
They're like now, why don't youdo some deep breathing and it's
like no, no, it's not going towork.
Christina McKelvy (07:29):
It's not going to work this time it's
more than just deep breathing,it's like a really rooted thing
that probably stems from manydifferent variables and reasons.
I'm curious how does Everbloom,the community that you created,
differ from other recoverynetworks such as AA?
Sonia (07:50):
Yeah, so I think one is that there are really it's not a
program, right, it's justgroups of people giving each
other support, and I think thebiggest thing that's different
is, like AA, for example, one oftheir main rules is no
crosstalk, and so to me, that'sno feedback, no conversation,
(08:10):
and that's really what I needed,and I think it's sort of a
different, almost more modernapproach.
Right, this is what we do now.
We communicate and we are freedwith our emotions and we're
vulnerable.
And I think that's really whatI was struggling with was I need
someone to talk to, I need tohave a conversation back and
(08:30):
forth.
And when someone says you'regoing to be OK, I'll be like
well, when?
When am I going to be OK?
And when they say three to sixmonths, and I'm like, really,
are you sure you want to be ableto kind of ask the questions,
and so that's different.
And then also, almost everyother platform is a drop-in
model, and so you are justdropping into a meeting.
(08:53):
You don't know who is going tobe there, you don't know what
their story is, and what Ireally wanted was to match
people and have them create realconnections, like real
friendships.
Christina McKelvy (09:08):
I was not aware of the drop-in model.
I mean I was aware of it but itdidn't.
It makes sense Like it's kindof an aha moment for me, is
where AA is a drop-in model, sonot knowing who's going to be
there, for some individuals thatcould mean a lack of sense of
safety.
Sonia (09:28):
For sure, right, Especially depending on where
you live in the country.
Aa is so different Like it canbe one way in New York City and
another way in Arizona you justdon't know what you're getting
into.
And then it's like, well, ifyou don't find what you're
looking for, what do you do?
Mm-hmm.
Christina McKelvy (09:48):
Mm-hmm, you don't find what you're looking
for.
What do you do?
You do what you did.
Sonia (09:54):
Yeah, that's one idea.
Yeah, or if you have, forexample, like but there are
people that live in areas wherefor me it's not feasible
necessarily to create a sobernetwork in rural Pennsylvania of
like 10, 15 other women.
That's not going to happen, andso it's really for people that
(10:15):
just want that connection Mm-hmm.
Christina McKelvy (10:20):
You know, you bring up a good point with.
You know, in a rural communityyou may not find in person 10
women who have similar stories,similar backgrounds.
I live in a relatively ruralarea of Arizona and it's the
same thing I hear a lot from myclients.
There's not anyone thatunderstands.
So then you go onto socialmedia or the internet and you
(10:42):
find like-minded communities andI think that's one of the
positives of social media isthat being able to connect with
others from around the world,whereas before you weren't able
to necessarily do that.
Sonia (10:55):
Yeah, and I'm not like necessarily old school, but I do
think there's like limitationsto like a Facebook group right
Right.
Like the conversation, likewe're having now, but I love it
Like the Slack channel atEverbloom and when people are
spring they will jump on andlike, ask for advice, and but
again it's like from people theyknow right.
(11:16):
It's not like you know randomperson jumping in being like,
hey, why don't you just tryhaving three glasses of wine
tonight?
It's like what?
No, no, I'm not going to trythat.
Christina McKelvy (11:27):
So how was Everbloom set up?
You mentioned you have a Slackchannel Like what does when
someone joins Everbloom?
What does that look like?
Sonia (11:35):
Yeah, so when they join, their options are they can have
like a five minute kind of chatwith me so I get an idea of what
they're looking for, or alsothey can fill out a pretty, like
you know, in depthquestionnaire about what they're
looking for, and then we'llmatch them into a group that we
think fits their needs the bestand haven't had a miss yet.
(11:55):
And so, yeah, the groups arevery cohesive, not necessarily
demographically like they're allages and races, but they're
struggling with something verysimilar.
So, you know, a lot of them arelike in the first six months of
sobriety, and that's a reallyunique experience.
We have a group of people thatare healthcare workers.
That's a really uniqueexperience, and so, whatever it
(12:19):
is that you're struggling with,that's kind of causing you to
like either reexamine yourrelationship with alcohol, get
sober and stay sober, whateverthat is.
Christina McKelvy (12:30):
And how has every bloom changed you
specifically?
You know as a founder, but alsoyou know I'm assuming you're
very engaged in the groupsitself.
Sonia (12:41):
I mean, I think I don't know if you feel like this,
because with the podcast, butit's like I well no, you're a
therapist, you do I never foundwhat I was like meant to do,
like I never felt connected,being an orthodontist, and I
maybe, at some level, knew I wasmissing some passion, but not
really Like.
I just was like, oh well, thisis what I went to school to do
(13:02):
and this is what I'm going to do, and so I think it like
fulfills something in me that Ididn't even know was missing to
like a great extent.
And so you know it's, it'schanged like in every way, like
there's no, there's no like endto the day, right, if someone's
having trouble or someone sendsme an email, like I'm responding
, it doesn't matter, you knowwhat time it is, and and so,
(13:25):
yeah, things like that.
I think it's different, thatit's more like a, like a passion
project, in a sense, than alike nine to five kind of job,
if that makes sense.
Yeah, and there's that like andI don't think I felt this way
about teeth, which is no, no,not teeth, no, but it's like if
I could help one person, that's,that's enough.
(13:48):
Like it, that is the goal is tohelp one person figure out what
the problem is with alcohol, ifyou know if they can drink, if
they can't drink, if they wantto get sober, and so, yeah, I
think it's just has a differentweight.
A different weight, yeah,that's what it feels like.
(14:08):
It feels like every person thatcomes through is like, or is in
a meeting, is like a friend ofmine, like we're all part of the
same tribe is probably not thegreatest word to use but just
we're part of the same community, like we understand each other
in a different way.
Christina McKelvy (14:27):
Unity is such an important concept that I
feel and I've said this in everysingle podcast in the last five
interviews that I've done soweird, but it's such an
important concept that I thinkwe have forgotten here in
Western society, especially inthe US.
Sonia (14:45):
For sure.
That's really interesting.
I was like talking to a friendof mine and I recently started
going to my families in Torontoand I started spending a lot
more time there and she said,like that's what society was
about.
It was about like being withyour people and the people that
understand you and support youthe most and somehow we just
(15:07):
kind of got away from that whenwe started like moving for work
and moving for school, and so wedidn't work, considering that
aspect of it.
Christina McKelvy (15:16):
Yeah, yeah.
The whole go out West, youngman, by yourself, you know, was
sowing grains in Americansociety, and I don't know if
there's necessarily nothingwrong with having that
independence, but you still losesomething when you're solo.
Sonia (15:34):
For sure, like I've moved so many times for school or for
jobs and you leave peoplebehind Like you're not taking
the whole group with you.
You know you're kind of in somefriendships.
Don't make it through that.
Christina McKelvy (15:49):
Yeah, it goes back to the online platform, so
you have individuals from allover the country or the world
like we're All over the countryright now.
Sonia (16:01):
We have some people in Canada.
But yeah, we're open, like, ifpeople can make it to a meeting,
you're welcome to come to ameetings, so yeah.
Christina McKelvy (16:09):
I love how technology can be beneficial.
Like I, have such a love haterelationship, but this is just,
I think, a testament of how itcan be helpful, you know,
expanding that community aroundthe US and eventually the globe.
Sonia (16:25):
Yeah, cause there's something to like, especially
with sobriety, like there'ssomething to consistency, and so
if I want to take a trip forthree weeks, I don't want to be
away from my sober community forthree weeks and especially,
honestly, vacations are a littletough when you're sober you
know like, especially whenyou're first sober and
everyone's, like you know,getting wasted.
Christina McKelvy (16:45):
And so.
Sonia (16:46):
So it's kind of nice, Like you can kind of take us
with you wherever you go.
If you feel like you know whatI'm going to travel for like a
month, it's like, well, youstill have your sober community.
Christina McKelvy (16:55):
Mm-hmm, you can take them with you or in
your pocket, cause it's an app,right, or is it?
Sonia (17:00):
It's not an app, it's just online and so you can like
click on from your phone andclick onto a zoom and you're
there.
And it's like and we havepeople that will come on from
like the strangest places, likethey like had to go to Walmart
and they're like I'm at Walmart,got the phone and I'm going to
have it, or like they're intheir car or on their way home
(17:20):
from somewhere.
So it's like, and it's nice too, cause it doesn't feel like.
I feel like now, right, we'realso concerned about something
interfering like with the day.
It's like they don't have toget dressed up, they don't have
to get in the car and gosomewhere.
Christina McKelvy (17:34):
Yeah, Mm-hmm, I'm curious what is your
perspective, being someone thathas been in recovery for six
years and you know you're.
I know there's a lot of nuances, every individual is different,
but what would you say you feelmight be one of the biggest
causes of not being sober?
(17:54):
You know, alcohol use,substance use yeah.
Sonia (17:58):
Yeah, I'm sure you have like the actual science behind
it, but I think for me like whatit felt like what it feels like
, and that's what matters foryou.
Yeah, it feels like, and it seethere was a genetic component.
And at some point that, whateverthat is got triggered in me,
(18:18):
and it was probably from trauma.
Like there was some traumaticexperiences when I was younger
that just kind of clicked inthere and thought and I thought,
oh, I have this unbelievableanxiety.
It's like a soul encompassinganxiety, and when you're young
and you have your first drinkand it takes that away, it's
(18:38):
like why look any further?
Right, like I found it.
I don't need to go try yoga, Idon't need, I found what works
for me and I think that's it.
And I also think it depends tohow normalized alcohol is in
your family, your society, andso for me, alcohol was really
normal to have around the house,and so the idea of having a
(19:02):
problem was like not really aconcept to me, like it didn't
occur to me that you could drinktoo much like it or that that
would be a problem or that youcould be addicted to alcohol.
Christina McKelvy (19:16):
What was your aha moment with that when
you're like, oh, I might have aproblem?
Sonia (19:22):
Yeah, it was kind of confusing because I was so high,
functioning right, like it wasliterally like in response to
how well I was functioning themore I drank, and so it was
really tough to admit that therewas a problem and then to admit
that like I had to let go ofthis like only coping mechanism,
and I had seen super lowfunctioning alcoholics my whole
(19:45):
life and I thought, well, thatguy, like I'm not that guy, but
I am that guy, I am Like that isthe same thought process, the
same physical process that goesthrough my body.
It's the same thing, like Ineed a drink.
And so, yeah, I think the ahamoment was like just like one
(20:08):
hangover too many type thing.
Like I think it was like I hadknown probably for about a year
or two that there was a problem,right, like I knew I didn't
feel good physically, I knewthat I was saying things that I
regretted the next day, I knew Iwas blacking out more
(20:28):
frequently at night, and so Ithink that I think it was just
like one really bad hangoverwhere I had blacked out, I had
said something probably crazy, Ihad like a bruise on my leg and
I was so sick that I just waslike this can't be what life is,
(20:50):
because the only way.
Also, I was in a cycle where ifI was that hungover on like a
Sunday, I would drink likebrunch, right, and feel better.
And I knew I just saw it like.
I saw it like the next few weekslike flash in front of me and I
thought, if I get rid of thishangover by drinking at brunch,
(21:11):
I can't stop drinking today,like I'll have to keep drinking
until I go to bed and then thehangover I have tomorrow is
gonna be worse than this one andI have to go to work and then
I'm barely gonna make it throughthe day just like praying.
I can go home and startdrinking and it just felt like
what am I doing?
Like what is my life Like?
(21:32):
What is it?
What am I doing?
I have no hobbies I have.
You know I wasn't super closeto my family.
All I was sort of concerned waswas like being successful at
work and then coming home anddrinking.
Being successful and cominghome, and so it just wasn't.
Yeah, it wasn't working for me.
Christina McKelvy (21:52):
It's the more successful you got, the more
you drank.
Sonia (21:57):
Yeah, I mean I think that I was pretty good at covering
it up.
But I think most people who cankind of contain their drinking
to like the hours between likeseven and 10 pm are pretty good
at covering it up during the day.
But yeah, I think that that'sprobably when you start to
realize that there's a problem,is when you're kind of faced
(22:19):
with some stress that's likebeyond, so that the work stress
was like really testing mylimits.
And so then it was like testingmy limits of how much I could
drink.
Christina McKelvy (22:35):
I'm curious what tends to be common barriers
that you've seen, either foryourself or in general, in
regards to trying to maintainsobriety or get to the first
steps of sobriety.
Sonia (22:49):
Yeah, for sure, it's a stigma thing, and so.
Not shame, For sure, it's ashame thing and it's.
We talk about it a lot in thegroups and I think that also a
lot is the like, you know IPeople think the only option is
to go to AA.
And when you go to AA, you haveto like admit you're powerless
(23:10):
against alcohol.
And I don't think, as women, wefeel like doing that right now,
Like at this in 2023, like Idon't think we feel like saying
I'm powerless against somethingand, you know, really have to
commit to abstinence for therest of your life.
And there's a shame factor ifyou know you have a slip up and
so I'm abstinent, that's mychoice, but not everyone has
(23:36):
that as a goal and they feeluncomfortable.
I think, talking about that andso that's kind of what we do is
we give people a place to figurereally, really truly figure out
what you want your relationshipwith alcohol to be going
forward.
And you don't have to labelyourself as an addict, you don't
have to label yourself as analcoholic.
You just All you know is youwant a better, you know
(23:59):
relationship with alcohol.
You want a different connectionto it.
You don't want to use it as acrutch.
Christina McKelvy (24:06):
You mentioned shame factor, the stigma, and
even I'm sure they're in thecommunity, not your community,
but just in general saying, oh,I want to limit it to once a
week, or this is how I want myrelationship to be, as opposed
to the traditional concept ofabstinence.
Aa preaches Sure, that's whereit is.
(24:26):
There can be stigma even justthere, like you mentioned, like
oh, or judgment.
Maybe there's fear of judgment.
Sonia (24:32):
Yeah, and you really have to wholeheartedly sort of
accept AA right, like you can'thave in, have out, you can't be
kind of in this, like youessentially like your life has
like gone in a certain directionwhere you need intervention to
get it out.
And so a lot of the women inour groups are super high
(24:54):
functioning and so they don'thave the same consequences and
so they can't sometimes relateto someone who's you know, on
their like third or fourth DUIwhich is like totally, you know
it is what it is.
To me it's it's kind of alladdiction, but I understand the
relevance to sort of label.
(25:14):
You know yourself like that Forsome reason.
To me it came easily.
Once I got sober.
It was like, very easy, I'm anaddict, like, and now it's like.
You know, a huge part of myidentity is that you know
recovery.
But I understand that not noteveryone wants to give it that
place in their life.
They just know they want to behealthier and happier.
Christina McKelvy (25:37):
And that relationship with alcohol and,
like you said, it's shaped bymaybe someone's traditions with
their family, society.
Learned coping, like I learnedcoping skills, genetics, like
there's so many differentnuances and variables to why
someone may find themselves in astate of addiction.
Sonia (25:57):
Yeah, and there's a huge cultural component, right that
like I think that is like alittle underestimated that you
don't have a ton of Asian peoplelike myself in the groups Not
something you admit.
You don't admit any weakness,you know.
And like certainly not to asubstance, right, it's like,
(26:17):
yeah, I think you know, when youhear the story of like you know
, my dad was like I walked sevenmiles to school with no shoes.
You don't have a drinkingproblem, just stop drinking.
Like that's not a problem, juststop.
And so I think there is a lotof like immigrant mentality
where it's like, yeah, that'snot a thing, like that's, come
on, like you know, just pullyourself up by your bootstraps
(26:41):
and fix it.
Christina McKelvy (26:43):
I'm curious how it shaped you.
You know just your like, soyour culture and the decisions
you had to make towards sobriety.
Sonia (26:51):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's this in my specific, you
know, stance is that, becausethere were so many people
drinking so heavily in my family, for them to say that
acknowledge that I had a problemwould be like we got to go back
to, like these 50 guys, likeyou know, think about what's
going on there and I think thatthey don't want to do that Like
(27:14):
that's not and it's a huge partof celebration in the culture,
and so I think that if you takethat away, they wouldn't even
know how to celebrate a weddingand they wouldn't know, you know
, how to celebrate the birth ofa boy child and, you know, I
think there's those few kind ofthings specific to, like you
(27:36):
know, indian culture and how Igrew up.
That, yeah, that reallyprevented me from, you know,
wanting to admit there was aproblem and then again, wanting
to be open about it.
Christina McKelvy (27:46):
Yeah, I read a interview.
So I, you know I do do someresearch on my guests and you
know speaking of and this is adifferent direction of culture.
But I read an interview whereyou talk about hustle culture
and burnout culture and I'mcurious how that can contribute
to substance use or eitherpersonally for you or just in
general what you've seen.
It was a very interestinginterview and also it's a very
(28:07):
interesting thought of hustleculture, burnout culture and
especially nowadays, you know,think, as women, we feel like we
have to even prove ourselves alot, which we shouldn't have to.
Sonia (28:18):
But yeah, I think there's just this idea of like you
hustle until you burn out, likeyou are burning down right.
Like it's a sprint, it's not amarathon.
And so I think you know, for meit became that, especially when
there was that sort of likelooming idea that I could sell
(28:40):
the business, and so it was like, well, we have to get that to
be bigger and bigger and biggerto be attractive enough to sell.
And even if that hadn't beenthere, there was just this drive
to like make it bigger andbigger and bigger, without kind
of like growing but withoutreally any idea why right Like
that's just what you do.
(29:01):
You make it why you make moremoney you make.
And so I think that for me itjust got out of control, because
I don't think I was equipped tohandle that type of stress.
And then also it was likeperfectly acceptable for me to
come home and have a drink whenI was so hard.
(29:24):
No one was questioning it, right, like no one was like, oh, I
think she drinks too much.
I was just like, no, she'sburning it up and she you know,
she's trying to, you know needsa glass of wine after a hard day
of work, and I think there'sthat too right, the work hard,
play hard.
And so, yeah, I think that'slike, I think that's changing a
little bit, but I think it'sstill part of our culture, like
(29:47):
it's still part of like finance,the finance world.
I think I think it's getting alittle more relaxed in like the
startup world, but it's, yeah,you just feel this like this is
your one shot and so you have tohit it, and you have to hit it
now.
And so it's great, because Idon't feel like that now about
(30:07):
Everglue.
I don't feel like that, like ifI need to take a nap, I'm
taking a nap because part of itis also I have to like practice
what I preach, right, I'mtelling people about self care
and like self compassion,earning it up again it's like
not helpful to anybody.
Christina McKelvy (30:24):
Yeah, if you're not taking care of
yourself, you won't be able totake care of others.
It's putting your own oxygenmask on first and I'm seeing
this link.
People that are very successful, high functioning, you know
have to feel like they have tohustle and that might cause them
to, you know, have unhealthyhabits.
But then there's that shame andstigma.
Because I'm very successful,you know, very high functioning,
I shouldn't be having whatpeople call an issue or a
(30:47):
problem, and so there's thatshame, there's that stigma that
gets reinforced and then youhave eventually may burn out or
have other consequences becauseof that.
So I'm definitely seeing thisand it almost feels like it's
not talked about a lot.
We tend to focus on, you know,one area and we don't focus on,
like, another group where, no,they're struggling, they look
(31:07):
like they're doing well, butthey're struggling.
That's the whole thing.
Sonia (31:12):
I think that's my goal right Is to stigmatize that and,
honestly, it's part of ourculture, our society is.
I've posted on like TikTok,Like I was super successful, I
started a business, I sold abusiness, I, you know, I scaled
a business, all while I was analcoholic.
And people will respond that'snot possible, that's not like
(31:37):
you couldn't have been doing aswell as you think, and I'm like,
no, no, there's like literalevidence that I was doing well
and I said this is the type ofcomment, right, that stops
people from getting help.
It stops, like a CEO of acompany from admitting that they
have a problem, because theyknow people are going to see
them as well.
If you have a problem, youhaven't been doing your job
(31:57):
properly and or you don't have aproblem, You're just like
making a big deal.
It's like it's the same thingwith mental health, right, Like
to admit you have a problemreally puts you in a vulnerable
position, I think in your sortof like work life and I then I
was so I was honestly surprisedat the comments like that, Like
(32:19):
every people would say everybodyaround you knew and it's like,
oh, they did.
I'm telling you like I was likereally, they're like people
could probably smell it and I'mlike I didn't drink at work,
Like you know, it was just.
Yeah, I was just I don't knowwhy it caught me off guard, but
I was like very quick to respondlike hey, thank you so much for
(32:41):
your input, but I think this isthe type of sentiment that
keeps people sick.
It keeps us sick.
Christina McKelvy (32:54):
And it reinforces that shame.
Sonia (32:55):
Yeah, because then it's like I'm thinking oh well, am I
well a right either,exaggerating how big my problem
was or he was I a disaster atwork or in other aspects of my
life and am not acknowledging ittype thing.
And so I think there is yeah,there's a lot of shame there.
Christina McKelvy (33:20):
And it's a problem for you, for you, the
person, the individual, and Ithink that's the measures, like
you're measuring it againstyourself.
Sonia (33:27):
If that makes any sense, yeah, I think people don't
realize too when you're like yougot to where you got for a
reason and that's because I wasreally good at putting rules
around myself.
I never drove while I was drunk, right, I never drank before a
certain time, like in theevening.
I made sure like all my phonecalls were done for work.
I made sure I didn't sendemails after I drank a certain
(33:50):
amount, like there were.
There was a whole set of rulesin my head.
I never drank at work events.
I it was like and I thinkpeople don't realize that that's
sort of that's what the highfunctioning is right Is hiding
it.
Christina McKelvy (34:08):
And I'm curious how much of that need to
have control over your own lifemay play into hiding it in a
negative.
Well, hiding it is negative,but I think some individuals
that are high functioning needto have like this or maybe not,
but need to have the sense ofcontrol, and so I can control
this aspect, even though it'sgetting me out of control.
Sonia (34:28):
Yeah, and I think people like generally, I think a lot of
people with addictions are kindof like perfectionists in this
weird way, and so, yeah, not alot in the groups that these are
people that are like doing itall like their moms, they're in
their like church fire, they'reyou know, they're doing parties
for their kids friends, they'rethrowing engagement parties,
(34:51):
they're throwing weddings, andit's like they're not.
They're almost functioning toowell, right and so, and that's
it.
They burn themselves out andthen they drink, and so I think
that, yeah, there is somethingto that for sure.
Christina McKelvy (35:09):
Interesting.
What lessons would you want toprovide?
The lessons you learnedthroughout your six years of
recovery and even now?
Sonia (35:22):
Oh, my biggest one is like and I, that's the thing is,
I actually do love AA.
I think there's so much withthere and for sure, yeah, I play
the tape forward multiple timesa day, and not just with
alcohol, I do it with likeeverything, with like food, with
everything that you know hasthis tendency to get out of like
(35:44):
control in any way.
It's like I just play the tapeforward like how, where does
this lead?
How will I feel if I do this?
What is the point of doing thistwo days from now?
And so, yeah, and I think thatis what kept me sober, the you
know, first six months after mydivorce was play the tape
forward, like if you, let's say,you go get a drink right now,
(36:09):
let's be honest, you're going tocome home tonight and, like,
rattle off some fierce emails ortexts.
Right, you're just going to belike lose it, and then you're
going to feel terrible the nextday and you're going to have to
drink again, and then thenyou'll probably send some like a
regretful text and then you'regoing to have to do this again.
And so I think that, yeah, playthe tape forward is my biggest,
(36:32):
you know, advice.
It's like something I do somuch.
Christina McKelvy (36:38):
Play the tape forward so it's seeing what
could be.
Sonia (36:43):
Yeah, even like, honestly , even like with like, I bake a
lot, right, and it's like I havea piece of cake, right, I
really want that second piece.
I don't feel full, but I playthe tape forward.
You're going to eat that secondpiece of cake and be like why
did I?
What the why, why?
Now I feel awful, like I can'tmove and so, yeah, there's a lot
(37:04):
of that, it can help with alltypes of unhealthy habits and
choices.
Not that I have started dating,but I imagine it would help if I
let's play the tape forward onthis guy.
Like like let's take theinformation we have and where do
(37:25):
we think this is going Well?
Like let's be realistic, whereis this going?
Christina McKelvy (37:31):
Yeah, yeah, where is this going?
Hmm, I like that and I'mactually.
I want to use that because Ihave a sweet tooth.
You know, I always want thatsecond piece, so hard.
Sonia (37:44):
Actually, interestingly, I have rules around it.
I have dessert after lunchevery day.
I don't have a huge dessert, Ido.
I eat like a couple of piecesof chocolate after lunch and
then I eat a pretty reasonabledessert after dinner.
But it's like I think that letsme regulate it.
Christina McKelvy (38:02):
It gets yourself that permission.
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Well, you know, I see, I lovehearing your story and how you
found yourself needing supportand community, like minded
individuals who knew where youcame from, who you felt like you
can be vulnerable with, andsince you struggled finding that
(38:25):
, you decided to create ityourself.
You're like I'm going to fillthis need, fill this gap, and
you know you continue to.
You know help through that,helping others and connecting
everybody.
Does it cost anything to joinEverbloom?
Sonia (38:39):
Yes, so we have different sort of levels of membership
and so you know, because it doestake a lot of effort to kind of
curate a group and then have arecovery, you know, facilitate
it, and so, yeah, there's likeyou can do one meeting a week
with your group, you can do twomeetings a week.
We also have one on one,coaching, and then everyone has
(39:00):
access to the Slack channel oncethey sign up.
Christina McKelvy (39:02):
Okay, okay.
Is there a minimum level ofengagement that someone needs to
have to be part of Everbloom,or can?
What would that look like?
Sonia (39:14):
I think that I feel like the way Everbloom is we don't
have to say there's a minimumlevel, because, sort of like you
don't want to be with only 10people and not participate,
right, and so, and alsoeveryone's being so vulnerable,
it really makes you want toparticipate.
But I tell people you don'thave to turn your camera on and
(39:36):
you don't have to speak, and Idon't think anyone has done that
for more than maybe one meeting.
After their first meeting,they're like okay, because I
think that's also that's a hugepart of the process.
Otherwise, to be honest, likeyou can listen to a podcast,
right, if you're not going toengage, it's sort of like you
can get stories and you can getinformation from listening to a
(40:00):
podcast.
And I think that this should bemore of an active group where
you're also there as a support,right.
So if you can't give support,how are you going to get it?
And so, yeah, I think that thatparticipating is sort of part
of the deal, but it's really upto the individual.
Christina McKelvy (40:23):
Yeah, I'm excited to see where Everbloom
goes and I think it's awonderful concept and yeah, so,
thank you so much for sharingabout it.
Now, sonia, my podcast iscalled Hopeology, meaning the
study of hope, and that's why,you know, I love interviewing
individuals from all backgrounds, all experiences, and the
question I ask everybody becauseit's different for everybody is
(40:44):
where do they find their hope?
What gives you hope?
Sonia (40:48):
What gives me hope is what used to scare me the most,
which is change.
And I think that I was so.
You know, I was with my exhusband for 18 years and assumed
that that would turn into 60,70 years, accepting the change
and then accepting that, like,these feelings will change too,
(41:08):
right and so, and then that willchange.
And so where I am now, you know, a year and a half after, I
could not have imagined, I couldnot have even imagined how good
my life could be, and I thinkthat I would still be in that
place if I hadn't accepted thechange.
(41:29):
And so it gives me hope, likeon a bad day, that not going to
feel like this forever.
You may not even feel like thisin 10 minutes, like, and so I
think that that sort of like,acceptance of the like,
impermanence of some thingsgives me so much hope now, when
it used to be literally thescariest thing to me ever.
Christina McKelvy (41:51):
Yeah, open change is interconnected.
Sonia (41:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that, yeah, I think that
stability.
I think you can give yourselfstability, right, you can give
yourself that consistency.
I'm always, wherever I go, I amthere.
So, yeah, wherever I am, it'shome.
Christina McKelvy (42:16):
I like that wherever I am, it's home.
Sonia (42:20):
Yeah, I thought it was wherever that guy was right.
And no, turns out not true.
Your journey, and it always hasbeen, it just took, you know,
43 years to figure.
Christina McKelvy (42:35):
And that's okay, because I don't think we
haven't figured out in our 20s.
I'm in my late 30s and I'm justnow figuring it out.
Yeah, it takes that, it takesthat journey, and that's kind of
what life is is growing andfiguring it out.
Yeah, it's so true.
So is anything else you want toshare with my listeners about
(42:55):
Everbloom or yourself or wherewe can find you?
Sonia (42:59):
Yeah, so we are join ever bloom dot com B L U M E, and
we're either join ever bloom orever bloom on every social media
platform.
Christina McKelvy (43:09):
Awesome.
I will put that in the shownotes and again, thank you so
much for being here and I'mlooking forward to seeing you
ever blooms blooming.
Sonia (43:21):
Thank you so much for seeing this.
Welcome to Apology Stories of Hope, healing
and Resilience.
I'm your host, christinaMcKelvie.
Today we speak with Sonia.
She's the founder of Everbloom,an online platform that helps
provide support with alcoholrecovery through community.
We explore her own personalstory about recovery and how she
saw the need for that increasedcommunity support, which led
(00:20):
her to create Everbloom.
Please join us as we delve intothis interesting topic about
sobriety and what that means.
We'll be right back MUSIC.
Welcome to Apology Stories ofHope, healing and Resilience.
(00:55):
I'm your host, christinaMcKelvie.
Today we're going to bespeaking to Sonia from Everbloom
.
How are you doing, sonia?
Sonia (01:03):
I'm really good, Christina.
How are you today?
Christina McKelvy (01:05):
I'm doing well, thank you.
It's a little warm, it is thesummer and at least where I'm
from it's really warm.
Sonia (01:15):
Yeah, it's beautiful here .
I'm in Pennsylvania OK.
Christina McKelvy (01:18):
OK, pennsylvania yeah, I've been
having this weird.
I don't know if it's weird, butI have been having this
fascination with wanting tovisit the East Coast, like
Vermont, rhode Island, you know,kid Cod, and I've been getting
Instagram ads because I thinkInstagram reach your mind.
Sonia (01:38):
Yeah, that was reach your mind.
Christina McKelvy (01:41):
So just tons of ads about the East Coast, so
I'll have to make it out there.
The furthest seats I've beenwas Maryland, and it was lovely.
You know it was in ChescapiqueBay, I think that's how you say
it.
Yeah, chescapique, yeah, yeah,and Blue Water Crab, it was
great.
So it's the furthest east I'veever been have to do an East
Coast.
Sonia (02:01):
A fall East Coast trip is amazing.
Christina McKelvy (02:04):
Yes, ok, well , I'm writing that down and I
will travel out to the EastCoast one of these falls, or
more recent, because this summerhere where I'm at on the West
Coast is torturous.
So, sonia, tell me a little bitabout yourself, or tell our
audiences a little bit aboutyourself and your platform,
everbloom.
Sonia (02:25):
Yeah, so I'm Sonia and I've been in recovery for six
years and originally I was anorthodontist and I built a
really big practice and thewhole time I was building it I
was just drinking more and moreto deal with the stress.
And when I sold the business Igot sober and I was doing really
(02:46):
well.
But it wasn't really out andproud with my sobriety and most
of the reason why I think myhusband at the time wasn't super
comfortable with that idea thathis wife was like an addict,
right and so, and thought itsort of like, you know, had this
stigma.
If I said I'm sober and so alot of times I would notice like
he would jump in and tellpeople, oh, she doesn't drink
(03:08):
and wouldn't.
I didn't really get into thesober thing, but he went on
Expand on that.
Yeah, I wouldn't expand on it.
And then you know, like youjust know instinctively not to.
You know what I mean, whatyou're like.
Okay, I'm not going to expandon it either, because I think
there was a reason, you knowdoes it that way?
And so, yeah, then I started tokind of get more into it.
(03:28):
I started writing a little bitabout my sobriety, I started
making images and they got intogalleries and the writing was
getting published and I thinkthe more that happened, probably
the more uncomfortable hebecame, and for 18 years he got
up and left like without anywarning, I'm sorry I know it was
(03:51):
devastating, and so when thathappened I thought there's
absolutely no way I'm going tostay sober and there's no reason
, because my life has been likeblown to pieces.
So I, you know, the first fewweeks were just so tough and I
really didn't know if I wasgoing to make it without
drinking, and I really did justgo back to the one day at a time
(04:14):
, which I hadn't done in fiveyears.
And while I was doing that Ithought, you know, I really need
a sober community.
Like I need support from peoplethat have gone through like not
necessarily the exact samething, but something similar,
like a really tough situation,and have to kind of maintain
their sobriety.
And also I'm pretty introvertedand I didn't want to talk in a
(04:37):
big group with people I didn'tknow.
So I was like is there any waythat there's like a consistent
group that I would see likeevery week the same people, so I
didn't have to go through mylike sob story every time, like
I was sober five years and thenmy husband left and then you
know, and so nice of people knewthat.
And so kind of like friendsright, like my friends, I didn't
(04:59):
have to go into it, you know,each time and I looked and I
really couldn't find it.
And so I thought, if I'm goingthrough this right and I was so
lucky, I had like five years ofsobriety, I had a super strong
support system with my family, Iwas financially stable I cannot
imagine if any of those thingsweren't there, how much more
(05:23):
difficult this would be.
And it's got to be somethingthat other people are looking
for.
And so, yeah, I kind of did alot of research and was like I
really don't need to startanother business, but let me
check out and see if it's outthere.
And it wasn't.
And so I just slowly startedinterviewing people in recovery,
really trying to solidify thefact that it wasn't out there.
(05:45):
It wasn't.
And so I made it.
Christina McKelvy (05:49):
You saw a need and you stepped in to meet
that need.
It sounds like the lack ofsupport and community for those
that are continuing on withsobriety, because it's a little
different with your friends.
Sonia (06:05):
Like you mentioned, you had friends, but they might have
not understood your journey andyeah, I didn't want to worry
people, I didn't want to worrymy family and friends by saying,
thinking I'd go pick up abottle of alcohol.
They were being so different inevery other way that I just and
they'd been through theaddiction and I didn't want to.
(06:28):
It just seemed unfair in asense to bring it up and be like
hey, now you have to babysit me, so I don't drink.
So, yeah, it's different whenyou have friends that they my
family doesn't drink a lot butthey're not sober and I think it
takes a sober person tounderstand that specific
struggle.
Christina McKelvy (06:48):
Yeah, that's actually a really good point
that it's hard to connect withor understand, have empathy or
insight into someone's struggleif you have not been there
yourself.
Sonia (07:01):
Yeah, because that is my heaviest coping mechanism.
Things are as bad as they canget.
I didn't have the copingmechanisms for something that
enormous and that's hard forpeople to understand who don't
automatically default to drugsand alcohol.
(07:22):
They're like now, why don't youdo some deep breathing and it's
like no, no, it's not going towork.
Christina McKelvy (07:29):
It's not going to work this time it's
more than just deep breathing,it's like a really rooted thing
that probably stems from manydifferent variables and reasons.
I'm curious how does Everbloom,the community that you created,
differ from other recoverynetworks such as AA?
Sonia (07:50):
Yeah, so I think one is that there are really it's not a
program, right, it's justgroups of people giving each
other support, and I think thebiggest thing that's different
is, like AA, for example, one oftheir main rules is no
crosstalk, and so to me, that'sno feedback, no conversation,
(08:10):
and that's really what I needed,and I think it's sort of a
different, almost more modernapproach.
Right, this is what we do now.
We communicate and we are freedwith our emotions and we're
vulnerable.
And I think that's really whatI was struggling with was I need
someone to talk to, I need tohave a conversation back and
(08:30):
forth.
And when someone says you'regoing to be OK, I'll be like
well, when?
When am I going to be OK?
And when they say three to sixmonths, and I'm like, really,
are you sure you want to be ableto kind of ask the questions,
and so that's different.
And then also, almost everyother platform is a drop-in
model, and so you are justdropping into a meeting.
(08:53):
You don't know who is going tobe there, you don't know what
their story is, and what Ireally wanted was to match
people and have them create realconnections, like real
friendships.
Christina McKelvy (09:08):
I was not aware of the drop-in model.
I mean I was aware of it but itdidn't.
It makes sense Like it's kindof an aha moment for me, is
where AA is a drop-in model, sonot knowing who's going to be
there, for some individuals thatcould mean a lack of sense of
safety.
Sonia (09:28):
For sure, right, Especially depending on where
you live in the country.
Aa is so different Like it canbe one way in New York City and
another way in Arizona you justdon't know what you're getting
into.
And then it's like, well, ifyou don't find what you're
looking for, what do you do?
Mm-hmm.
Christina McKelvy (09:48):
Mm-hmm, you don't find what you're looking
for.
What do you do?
You do what you did.
Sonia (09:54):
Yeah, that's one idea.
Yeah, or if you have, forexample, like but there are
people that live in areas wherefor me it's not feasible
necessarily to create a sobernetwork in rural Pennsylvania of
like 10, 15 other women.
That's not going to happen, andso it's really for people that
(10:15):
just want that connection Mm-hmm.
Christina McKelvy (10:20):
You know, you bring up a good point with.
You know, in a rural communityyou may not find in person 10
women who have similar stories,similar backgrounds.
I live in a relatively ruralarea of Arizona and it's the
same thing I hear a lot from myclients.
There's not anyone thatunderstands.
So then you go onto socialmedia or the internet and you
(10:42):
find like-minded communities andI think that's one of the
positives of social media isthat being able to connect with
others from around the world,whereas before you weren't able
to necessarily do that.
Sonia (10:55):
Yeah, and I'm not like necessarily old school, but I do
think there's like limitationsto like a Facebook group right
Right.
Like the conversation, likewe're having now, but I love it
Like the Slack channel atEverbloom and when people are
spring they will jump on andlike, ask for advice, and but
again it's like from people theyknow right.
(11:16):
It's not like you know randomperson jumping in being like,
hey, why don't you just tryhaving three glasses of wine
tonight?
It's like what?
No, no, I'm not going to trythat.
Christina McKelvy (11:27):
So how was Everbloom set up?
You mentioned you have a Slackchannel Like what does when
someone joins Everbloom?
What does that look like?
Sonia (11:35):
Yeah, so when they join, their options are they can have
like a five minute kind of chatwith me so I get an idea of what
they're looking for, or alsothey can fill out a pretty, like
you know, in depthquestionnaire about what they're
looking for, and then we'llmatch them into a group that we
think fits their needs the bestand haven't had a miss yet.
(11:55):
And so, yeah, the groups arevery cohesive, not necessarily
demographically like they're allages and races, but they're
struggling with something verysimilar.
So, you know, a lot of them arelike in the first six months of
sobriety, and that's a reallyunique experience.
We have a group of people thatare healthcare workers.
That's a really uniqueexperience, and so, whatever it
(12:19):
is that you're struggling with,that's kind of causing you to
like either reexamine yourrelationship with alcohol, get
sober and stay sober, whateverthat is.
Christina McKelvy (12:30):
And how has every bloom changed you
specifically?
You know as a founder, but alsoyou know I'm assuming you're
very engaged in the groupsitself.
Sonia (12:41):
I mean, I think I don't know if you feel like this,
because with the podcast, butit's like I well no, you're a
therapist, you do I never foundwhat I was like meant to do,
like I never felt connected,being an orthodontist, and I
maybe, at some level, knew I wasmissing some passion, but not
really Like.
I just was like, oh well, thisis what I went to school to do
(13:02):
and this is what I'm going to do, and so I think it like
fulfills something in me that Ididn't even know was missing to
like a great extent.
And so you know it's, it'schanged like in every way, like
there's no, there's no like endto the day, right, if someone's
having trouble or someone sendsme an email, like I'm responding
, it doesn't matter, you knowwhat time it is, and and so,
(13:25):
yeah, things like that.
I think it's different, thatit's more like a, like a passion
project, in a sense, than alike nine to five kind of job,
if that makes sense.
Yeah, and there's that like andI don't think I felt this way
about teeth, which is no, no,not teeth, no, but it's like if
I could help one person, that's,that's enough.
(13:48):
Like it, that is the goal is tohelp one person figure out what
the problem is with alcohol, ifyou know if they can drink, if
they can't drink, if they wantto get sober, and so, yeah, I
think it's just has a differentweight.
A different weight, yeah,that's what it feels like.
(14:08):
It feels like every person thatcomes through is like, or is in
a meeting, is like a friend ofmine, like we're all part of the
same tribe is probably not thegreatest word to use but just
we're part of the same community, like we understand each other
in a different way.
Christina McKelvy (14:27):
Unity is such an important concept that I
feel and I've said this in everysingle podcast in the last five
interviews that I've done soweird, but it's such an
important concept that I thinkwe have forgotten here in
Western society, especially inthe US.
Sonia (14:45):
For sure.
That's really interesting.
I was like talking to a friendof mine and I recently started
going to my families in Torontoand I started spending a lot
more time there and she said,like that's what society was
about.
It was about like being withyour people and the people that
understand you and support youthe most and somehow we just
(15:07):
kind of got away from that whenwe started like moving for work
and moving for school, and so wedidn't work, considering that
aspect of it.
Christina McKelvy (15:16):
Yeah, yeah.
The whole go out West, youngman, by yourself, you know, was
sowing grains in Americansociety, and I don't know if
there's necessarily nothingwrong with having that
independence, but you still losesomething when you're solo.
Sonia (15:34):
For sure, like I've moved so many times for school or for
jobs and you leave peoplebehind Like you're not taking
the whole group with you.
You know you're kind of in somefriendships.
Don't make it through that.
Christina McKelvy (15:49):
Yeah, it goes back to the online platform, so
you have individuals from allover the country or the world
like we're All over the countryright now.
Sonia (16:01):
We have some people in Canada.
But yeah, we're open, like, ifpeople can make it to a meeting,
you're welcome to come to ameetings, so yeah.
Christina McKelvy (16:09):
I love how technology can be beneficial.
Like I, have such a love haterelationship, but this is just,
I think, a testament of how itcan be helpful, you know,
expanding that community aroundthe US and eventually the globe.
Sonia (16:25):
Yeah, cause there's something to like, especially
with sobriety, like there'ssomething to consistency, and so
if I want to take a trip forthree weeks, I don't want to be
away from my sober community forthree weeks and especially,
honestly, vacations are a littletough when you're sober you
know like, especially whenyou're first sober and
everyone's, like you know,getting wasted.
Christina McKelvy (16:45):
And so.
Sonia (16:46):
So it's kind of nice, Like you can kind of take us
with you wherever you go.
If you feel like you know whatI'm going to travel for like a
month, it's like, well, youstill have your sober community.
Christina McKelvy (16:55):
Mm-hmm, you can take them with you or in
your pocket, cause it's an app,right, or is it?
Sonia (17:00):
It's not an app, it's just online and so you can like
click on from your phone andclick onto a zoom and you're
there.
And it's like and we havepeople that will come on from
like the strangest places, likethey like had to go to Walmart
and they're like I'm at Walmart,got the phone and I'm going to
have it, or like they're intheir car or on their way home
(17:20):
from somewhere.
So it's like, and it's nice too, cause it doesn't feel like.
I feel like now, right, we'realso concerned about something
interfering like with the day.
It's like they don't have toget dressed up, they don't have
to get in the car and gosomewhere.
Christina McKelvy (17:34):
Yeah, Mm-hmm, I'm curious what is your
perspective, being someone thathas been in recovery for six
years and you know you're.
I know there's a lot of nuances, every individual is different,
but what would you say you feelmight be one of the biggest
causes of not being sober?
(17:54):
You know, alcohol use,substance use yeah.
Sonia (17:58):
Yeah, I'm sure you have like the actual science behind
it, but I think for me like whatit felt like what it feels like
, and that's what matters foryou.
Yeah, it feels like, and it seethere was a genetic component.
And at some point that, whateverthat is got triggered in me,
(18:18):
and it was probably from trauma.
Like there was some traumaticexperiences when I was younger
that just kind of clicked inthere and thought and I thought,
oh, I have this unbelievableanxiety.
It's like a soul encompassinganxiety, and when you're young
and you have your first drinkand it takes that away, it's
(18:38):
like why look any further?
Right, like I found it.
I don't need to go try yoga, Idon't need, I found what works
for me and I think that's it.
And I also think it depends tohow normalized alcohol is in
your family, your society, andso for me, alcohol was really
normal to have around the house,and so the idea of having a
(19:02):
problem was like not really aconcept to me, like it didn't
occur to me that you could drinktoo much like it or that that
would be a problem or that youcould be addicted to alcohol.
Christina McKelvy (19:16):
What was your aha moment with that when
you're like, oh, I might have aproblem?
Sonia (19:22):
Yeah, it was kind of confusing because I was so high,
functioning right, like it wasliterally like in response to
how well I was functioning themore I drank, and so it was
really tough to admit that therewas a problem and then to admit
that like I had to let go ofthis like only coping mechanism,
and I had seen super lowfunctioning alcoholics my whole
(19:45):
life and I thought, well, thatguy, like I'm not that guy, but
I am that guy, I am Like that isthe same thought process, the
same physical process that goesthrough my body.
It's the same thing, like Ineed a drink.
And so, yeah, I think the ahamoment was like just like one
(20:08):
hangover too many type thing.
Like I think it was like I hadknown probably for about a year
or two that there was a problem,right, like I knew I didn't
feel good physically, I knewthat I was saying things that I
regretted the next day, I knew Iwas blacking out more
(20:28):
frequently at night, and so Ithink that I think it was just
like one really bad hangoverwhere I had blacked out, I had
said something probably crazy, Ihad like a bruise on my leg and
I was so sick that I just waslike this can't be what life is,
(20:50):
because the only way.
Also, I was in a cycle where ifI was that hungover on like a
Sunday, I would drink likebrunch, right, and feel better.
And I knew I just saw it like.
I saw it like the next few weekslike flash in front of me and I
thought, if I get rid of thishangover by drinking at brunch,
(21:11):
I can't stop drinking today,like I'll have to keep drinking
until I go to bed and then thehangover I have tomorrow is
gonna be worse than this one andI have to go to work and then
I'm barely gonna make it throughthe day just like praying.
I can go home and startdrinking and it just felt like
what am I doing?
Like what is my life Like?
(21:32):
What is it?
What am I doing?
I have no hobbies I have.
You know I wasn't super closeto my family.
All I was sort of concerned waswas like being successful at
work and then coming home anddrinking.
Being successful and cominghome, and so it just wasn't.
Yeah, it wasn't working for me.
Christina McKelvy (21:52):
It's the more successful you got, the more
you drank.
Sonia (21:57):
Yeah, I mean I think that I was pretty good at covering
it up.
But I think most people who cankind of contain their drinking
to like the hours between likeseven and 10 pm are pretty good
at covering it up during the day.
But yeah, I think that that'sprobably when you start to
realize that there's a problem,is when you're kind of faced
(22:19):
with some stress that's likebeyond, so that the work stress
was like really testing mylimits.
And so then it was like testingmy limits of how much I could
drink.
Christina McKelvy (22:35):
I'm curious what tends to be common barriers
that you've seen, either foryourself or in general, in
regards to trying to maintainsobriety or get to the first
steps of sobriety.
Sonia (22:49):
Yeah, for sure, it's a stigma thing, and so.
Not shame, For sure, it's ashame thing and it's.
We talk about it a lot in thegroups and I think that also a
lot is the like, you know IPeople think the only option is
to go to AA.
And when you go to AA, you haveto like admit you're powerless
(23:10):
against alcohol.
And I don't think, as women, wefeel like doing that right now,
Like at this in 2023, like Idon't think we feel like saying
I'm powerless against somethingand, you know, really have to
commit to abstinence for therest of your life.
And there's a shame factor ifyou know you have a slip up and
so I'm abstinent, that's mychoice, but not everyone has
(23:36):
that as a goal and they feeluncomfortable.
I think, talking about that andso that's kind of what we do is
we give people a place to figurereally, really truly figure out
what you want your relationshipwith alcohol to be going
forward.
And you don't have to labelyourself as an addict, you don't
have to label yourself as analcoholic.
You just All you know is youwant a better, you know
(23:59):
relationship with alcohol.
You want a different connectionto it.
You don't want to use it as acrutch.
Christina McKelvy (24:06):
You mentioned shame factor, the stigma, and
even I'm sure they're in thecommunity, not your community,
but just in general saying, oh,I want to limit it to once a
week, or this is how I want myrelationship to be, as opposed
to the traditional concept ofabstinence.
Aa preaches Sure, that's whereit is.
(24:26):
There can be stigma even justthere, like you mentioned, like
oh, or judgment.
Maybe there's fear of judgment.
Sonia (24:32):
Yeah, and you really have to wholeheartedly sort of
accept AA right, like you can'thave in, have out, you can't be
kind of in this, like youessentially like your life has
like gone in a certain directionwhere you need intervention to
get it out.
And so a lot of the women inour groups are super high
(24:54):
functioning and so they don'thave the same consequences and
so they can't sometimes relateto someone who's you know, on
their like third or fourth DUIwhich is like totally, you know
it is what it is.
To me it's it's kind of alladdiction, but I understand the
relevance to sort of label.
(25:14):
You know yourself like that Forsome reason.
To me it came easily.
Once I got sober.
It was like, very easy, I'm anaddict, like, and now it's like.
You know, a huge part of myidentity is that you know
recovery.
But I understand that not noteveryone wants to give it that
place in their life.
They just know they want to behealthier and happier.
Christina McKelvy (25:37):
And that relationship with alcohol and,
like you said, it's shaped bymaybe someone's traditions with
their family, society.
Learned coping, like I learnedcoping skills, genetics, like
there's so many differentnuances and variables to why
someone may find themselves in astate of addiction.
Sonia (25:57):
Yeah, and there's a huge cultural component, right that
like I think that is like alittle underestimated that you
don't have a ton of Asian peoplelike myself in the groups Not
something you admit.
You don't admit any weakness,you know.
And like certainly not to asubstance, right, it's like,
(26:17):
yeah, I think you know, when youhear the story of like you know
, my dad was like I walked sevenmiles to school with no shoes.
You don't have a drinkingproblem, just stop drinking.
Like that's not a problem, juststop.
And so I think there is a lotof like immigrant mentality
where it's like, yeah, that'snot a thing, like that's, come
on, like you know, just pullyourself up by your bootstraps
(26:41):
and fix it.
Christina McKelvy (26:43):
I'm curious how it shaped you.
You know just your like, soyour culture and the decisions
you had to make towards sobriety.
Sonia (26:51):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's this in my specific, you
know, stance is that, becausethere were so many people
drinking so heavily in my family, for them to say that
acknowledge that I had a problemwould be like we got to go back
to, like these 50 guys, likeyou know, think about what's
going on there and I think thatthey don't want to do that Like
(27:14):
that's not and it's a huge partof celebration in the culture,
and so I think that if you takethat away, they wouldn't even
know how to celebrate a weddingand they wouldn't know, you know
, how to celebrate the birth ofa boy child and, you know, I
think there's those few kind ofthings specific to, like you
(27:36):
know, indian culture and how Igrew up.
That, yeah, that reallyprevented me from, you know,
wanting to admit there was aproblem and then again, wanting
to be open about it.
Christina McKelvy (27:46):
Yeah, I read a interview.
So I, you know I do do someresearch on my guests and you
know speaking of and this is adifferent direction of culture.
But I read an interview whereyou talk about hustle culture
and burnout culture and I'mcurious how that can contribute
to substance use or eitherpersonally for you or just in
general what you've seen.
It was a very interestinginterview and also it's a very
(28:07):
interesting thought of hustleculture, burnout culture and
especially nowadays, you know,think, as women, we feel like we
have to even prove ourselves alot, which we shouldn't have to.
Sonia (28:18):
But yeah, I think there's just this idea of like you
hustle until you burn out, likeyou are burning down right.
Like it's a sprint, it's not amarathon.
And so I think you know, for meit became that, especially when
there was that sort of likelooming idea that I could sell
(28:40):
the business, and so it was like, well, we have to get that to
be bigger and bigger and biggerto be attractive enough to sell.
And even if that hadn't beenthere, there was just this drive
to like make it bigger andbigger and bigger, without kind
of like growing but withoutreally any idea why right Like
that's just what you do.
(29:01):
You make it why you make moremoney you make.
And so I think that for me itjust got out of control, because
I don't think I was equipped tohandle that type of stress.
And then also it was likeperfectly acceptable for me to
come home and have a drink whenI was so hard.
(29:24):
No one was questioning it, right, like no one was like, oh, I
think she drinks too much.
I was just like, no, she'sburning it up and she you know,
she's trying to, you know needsa glass of wine after a hard day
of work, and I think there'sthat too right, the work hard,
play hard.
And so, yeah, I think that'slike, I think that's changing a
little bit, but I think it'sstill part of our culture, like
(29:47):
it's still part of like finance,the finance world.
I think I think it's getting alittle more relaxed in like the
startup world, but it's, yeah,you just feel this like this is
your one shot and so you have tohit it, and you have to hit it
now.
And so it's great, because Idon't feel like that now about
(30:07):
Everglue.
I don't feel like that, like ifI need to take a nap, I'm
taking a nap because part of itis also I have to like practice
what I preach, right, I'mtelling people about self care
and like self compassion,earning it up again it's like
not helpful to anybody.
Christina McKelvy (30:24):
Yeah, if you're not taking care of
yourself, you won't be able totake care of others.
It's putting your own oxygenmask on first and I'm seeing
this link.
People that are very successful, high functioning, you know
have to feel like they have tohustle and that might cause them
to, you know, have unhealthyhabits.
But then there's that shame andstigma.
Because I'm very successful,you know, very high functioning,
I shouldn't be having whatpeople call an issue or a
(30:47):
problem, and so there's thatshame, there's that stigma that
gets reinforced and then youhave eventually may burn out or
have other consequences becauseof that.
So I'm definitely seeing thisand it almost feels like it's
not talked about a lot.
We tend to focus on, you know,one area and we don't focus on,
like, another group where, no,they're struggling, they look
(31:07):
like they're doing well, butthey're struggling.
That's the whole thing.
Sonia (31:12):
I think that's my goal right Is to stigmatize that and,
honestly, it's part of ourculture, our society is.
I've posted on like TikTok,Like I was super successful, I
started a business, I sold abusiness, I, you know, I scaled
a business, all while I was analcoholic.
And people will respond that'snot possible, that's not like
(31:37):
you couldn't have been doing aswell as you think, and I'm like,
no, no, there's like literalevidence that I was doing well
and I said this is the type ofcomment, right, that stops
people from getting help.
It stops, like a CEO of acompany from admitting that they
have a problem, because theyknow people are going to see
them as well.
If you have a problem, youhaven't been doing your job
(31:57):
properly and or you don't have aproblem, You're just like
making a big deal.
It's like it's the same thingwith mental health, right, Like
to admit you have a problemreally puts you in a vulnerable
position, I think in your sortof like work life and I then I
was so I was honestly surprisedat the comments like that, Like
(32:19):
every people would say everybodyaround you knew and it's like,
oh, they did.
I'm telling you like I was likereally, they're like people
could probably smell it and I'mlike I didn't drink at work,
Like you know, it was just.
Yeah, I was just I don't knowwhy it caught me off guard, but
I was like very quick to respondlike hey, thank you so much for
(32:41):
your input, but I think this isthe type of sentiment that
keeps people sick.
It keeps us sick.
Christina McKelvy (32:54):
And it reinforces that shame.
Sonia (32:55):
Yeah, because then it's like I'm thinking oh well, am I
well a right either,exaggerating how big my problem
was or he was I a disaster atwork or in other aspects of my
life and am not acknowledging ittype thing.
And so I think there is yeah,there's a lot of shame there.
Christina McKelvy (33:20):
And it's a problem for you, for you, the
person, the individual, and Ithink that's the measures, like
you're measuring it againstyourself.
Sonia (33:27):
If that makes any sense, yeah, I think people don't
realize too when you're like yougot to where you got for a
reason and that's because I wasreally good at putting rules
around myself.
I never drove while I was drunk, right, I never drank before a
certain time, like in theevening.
I made sure like all my phonecalls were done for work.
I made sure I didn't sendemails after I drank a certain
(33:50):
amount, like there were.
There was a whole set of rulesin my head.
I never drank at work events.
I it was like and I thinkpeople don't realize that that's
sort of that's what the highfunctioning is right Is hiding
it.
Christina McKelvy (34:08):
And I'm curious how much of that need to
have control over your own lifemay play into hiding it in a
negative.
Well, hiding it is negative,but I think some individuals
that are high functioning needto have like this or maybe not,
but need to have the sense ofcontrol, and so I can control
this aspect, even though it'sgetting me out of control.
Sonia (34:28):
Yeah, and I think people like generally, I think a lot of
people with addictions are kindof like perfectionists in this
weird way, and so, yeah, not alot in the groups that these are
people that are like doing itall like their moms, they're in
their like church fire, they'reyou know, they're doing parties
for their kids friends, they'rethrowing engagement parties,
(34:51):
they're throwing weddings, andit's like they're not.
They're almost functioning toowell, right and so, and that's
it.
They burn themselves out andthen they drink, and so I think
that, yeah, there is somethingto that for sure.
Christina McKelvy (35:09):
Interesting.
What lessons would you want toprovide?
The lessons you learnedthroughout your six years of
recovery and even now?
Sonia (35:22):
Oh, my biggest one is like and I, that's the thing is,
I actually do love AA.
I think there's so much withthere and for sure, yeah, I play
the tape forward multiple timesa day, and not just with
alcohol, I do it with likeeverything, with like food, with
everything that you know hasthis tendency to get out of like
(35:44):
control in any way.
It's like I just play the tapeforward like how, where does
this lead?
How will I feel if I do this?
What is the point of doing thistwo days from now?
And so, yeah, and I think thatis what kept me sober, the you
know, first six months after mydivorce was play the tape
forward, like if you, let's say,you go get a drink right now,
(36:09):
let's be honest, you're going tocome home tonight and, like,
rattle off some fierce emails ortexts.
Right, you're just going to belike lose it, and then you're
going to feel terrible the nextday and you're going to have to
drink again, and then thenyou'll probably send some like a
regretful text and then you'regoing to have to do this again.
And so I think that, yeah, playthe tape forward is my biggest,
(36:32):
you know, advice.
It's like something I do somuch.
Christina McKelvy (36:38):
Play the tape forward so it's seeing what
could be.
Sonia (36:43):
Yeah, even like, honestly , even like with like, I bake a
lot, right, and it's like I havea piece of cake, right, I
really want that second piece.
I don't feel full, but I playthe tape forward.
You're going to eat that secondpiece of cake and be like why
did I?
What the why, why?
Now I feel awful, like I can'tmove and so, yeah, there's a lot
(37:04):
of that, it can help with alltypes of unhealthy habits and
choices.
Not that I have started dating,but I imagine it would help if I
let's play the tape forward onthis guy.
Like like let's take theinformation we have and where do
(37:25):
we think this is going Well?
Like let's be realistic, whereis this going?
Christina McKelvy (37:31):
Yeah, yeah, where is this going?
Hmm, I like that and I'mactually.
I want to use that because Ihave a sweet tooth.
You know, I always want thatsecond piece, so hard.
Sonia (37:44):
Actually, interestingly, I have rules around it.
I have dessert after lunchevery day.
I don't have a huge dessert, Ido.
I eat like a couple of piecesof chocolate after lunch and
then I eat a pretty reasonabledessert after dinner.
But it's like I think that letsme regulate it.
Christina McKelvy (38:02):
It gets yourself that permission.
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Well, you know, I see, I lovehearing your story and how you
found yourself needing supportand community, like minded
individuals who knew where youcame from, who you felt like you
can be vulnerable with, andsince you struggled finding that
(38:25):
, you decided to create ityourself.
You're like I'm going to fillthis need, fill this gap, and
you know you continue to.
You know help through that,helping others and connecting
everybody.
Does it cost anything to joinEverbloom?
Sonia (38:39):
Yes, so we have different sort of levels of membership
and so you know, because it doestake a lot of effort to kind of
curate a group and then have arecovery, you know, facilitate
it, and so, yeah, there's likeyou can do one meeting a week
with your group, you can do twomeetings a week.
We also have one on one,coaching, and then everyone has
(39:00):
access to the Slack channel oncethey sign up.
Christina McKelvy (39:02):
Okay, okay.
Is there a minimum level ofengagement that someone needs to
have to be part of Everbloom,or can?
What would that look like?
Sonia (39:14):
I think that I feel like the way Everbloom is we don't
have to say there's a minimumlevel, because, sort of like you
don't want to be with only 10people and not participate,
right, and so, and alsoeveryone's being so vulnerable,
it really makes you want toparticipate.
But I tell people you don'thave to turn your camera on and
(39:36):
you don't have to speak, and Idon't think anyone has done that
for more than maybe one meeting.
After their first meeting,they're like okay, because I
think that's also that's a hugepart of the process.
Otherwise, to be honest, likeyou can listen to a podcast,
right, if you're not going toengage, it's sort of like you
can get stories and you can getinformation from listening to a
(40:00):
podcast.
And I think that this should bemore of an active group where
you're also there as a support,right.
So if you can't give support,how are you going to get it?
And so, yeah, I think that thatparticipating is sort of part
of the deal, but it's really upto the individual.
Christina McKelvy (40:23):
Yeah, I'm excited to see where Everbloom
goes and I think it's awonderful concept and yeah, so,
thank you so much for sharingabout it.
Now, sonia, my podcast iscalled Hopeology, meaning the
study of hope, and that's why,you know, I love interviewing
individuals from all backgrounds, all experiences, and the
question I ask everybody becauseit's different for everybody is
(40:44):
where do they find their hope?
What gives you hope?
Sonia (40:48):
What gives me hope is what used to scare me the most,
which is change.
And I think that I was so.
You know, I was with my exhusband for 18 years and assumed
that that would turn into 60,70 years, accepting the change
and then accepting that, like,these feelings will change too,
(41:08):
right and so, and then that willchange.
And so where I am now, you know, a year and a half after, I
could not have imagined, I couldnot have even imagined how good
my life could be, and I thinkthat I would still be in that
place if I hadn't accepted thechange.
(41:29):
And so it gives me hope, likeon a bad day, that not going to
feel like this forever.
You may not even feel like thisin 10 minutes, like, and so I
think that that sort of like,acceptance of the like,
impermanence of some thingsgives me so much hope now, when
it used to be literally thescariest thing to me ever.
Christina McKelvy (41:51):
Yeah, open change is interconnected.
Sonia (41:58):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that, yeah, I think that
stability.
I think you can give yourselfstability, right, you can give
yourself that consistency.
I'm always, wherever I go, I amthere.
So, yeah, wherever I am, it'shome.
Christina McKelvy (42:16):
I like that wherever I am, it's home.
Sonia (42:20):
Yeah, I thought it was wherever that guy was right.
And no, turns out not true.
Your journey, and it always hasbeen, it just took, you know,
43 years to figure.
Christina McKelvy (42:35):
And that's okay, because I don't think we
haven't figured out in our 20s.
I'm in my late 30s and I'm justnow figuring it out.
Yeah, it takes that, it takesthat journey, and that's kind of
what life is is growing andfiguring it out.
Yeah, it's so true.
So is anything else you want toshare with my listeners about
(42:55):
Everbloom or yourself or wherewe can find you?
Sonia (42:59):
Yeah, so we are join ever bloom dot com B L U M E, and
we're either join ever bloom orever bloom on every social media
platform.
Christina McKelvy (43:09):
Awesome.
I will put that in the shownotes and again, thank you so
much for being here and I'mlooking forward to seeing you
ever blooms blooming.
Sonia (43:21):
Thank you so much for seeing this.
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