June 25, 2024 • 51 mins
Join us for an enlightening conversation with Dr. Tara Armstead, as she reflects on her 18-year journey in education. Dr. Armstead opens up about her personal battles and how they inspired her to write a book that challenges societal norms and educational practices. You'll learn how her unique perspective and dedication to embracing differences can revolutionize the way we teach and engage with students.
Dr. Armstead's story isn't just about overcoming personal hurdles; it's a compelling narrative on the power of individualized education. We dive into real-life stories, such as a student's struggle with the loss of a parent, to underscore the importance of empathy and personal connection in teaching. Discover how adapting to diverse learning styles can significantly impact student success in the public school system, and why focusing solely on testing and grades can overlook crucial emotional and social factors.
But that's not all. We also explore the crucial link between human connection and resilience. Through poignant anecdotes, Dr. Armstead shares the transformative effects of making students feel genuinely valued. The episode challenges traditional hierarchical leadership models, advocating instead for a collaborative approach that fosters shared purpose and mutual respect. Whether you're an educator, a parent, or someone passionate about changing the status quo, this episode offers valuable insights into how we can build a more inclusive and effective educational environment.
Find her here: https://linktr.ee/drarmstead
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Disclaimer: The views reflected by any of the guests may not reflect the views of the podcast host. Some topics may be difficult for some viewers, so proceed at your own risk. This podcast does not replace psychotherapy or advice and is for entertainment purposes only.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christina McKelvy (00:02):
Welcome to Apology Stories of Hope, healing
and Resilience.
I'm your host, christinaMcKelvey, today.
I want to welcome Dr TaraArmstead.
She is the Dean of Students ata school in Phoenix and has been
an educator for over 18 years.
Welcome.
Dr. Armstead (00:16):
Thank you for having me.
Christina McKelvy (00:18):
Let's start off by you know why don't you
tell my audience a little bitabout you, your background and
your book that?
Dr. Armstead (00:23):
you have.
So, as far as who I am and mybackground, I was a child that
grew up.
I had both parents, did nothave any major struggles that
some would think, but I didfight against rejection and
depression and suicidal thoughtsfor a significant amount of
(00:44):
time in my life, and so gettinginto the field of education for
me was to go and try to correctwhat I experienced when I was in
school, because the teacher Iam is the teacher I wish I had,
and my book is an extension ofthat.
So I've worked with a lot ofdifferent students in a lot of
different situations of that.
(01:05):
So I've worked with a lot ofdifferent students in a lot of
different situations and after2020, a lot of students were
saying you need to write a book,you need to tell our story, and
so that's what the book is.
It's from my perspective as astudent and a teacher, but also
the feedback that I got from mystudents.
Christina McKelvy (01:20):
You know, Dr Armstead, I love that you just
said the teacher I am is theteacher I wish I had.
Dr. Armstead (01:26):
Yes, definitely, and that's because so part of
the book sometimes when peopleread the title, they they get a
little in their feelings,because I say that education can
make people think thatdifferent is bad, and a lot of
us, if we really took the timeto think about it, we can
(01:46):
remember at least one teacherthat made us feel like we were
deficient because we weredifferent, and so I remember
feeling that way.
Most of the time it was like amath class, because that's one
of my weak areas.
And so you get me.
Christina McKelvy (02:05):
Oh, my goodness, yes.
Dr. Armstead (02:07):
The the.
The main thing I wanted to dowas ensure that students do not
feel deficient just becausethey're different.
I want them to embrace that,because you're only going to be
successful and leave a legacywhen you you hold true to
yourself.
Christina McKelvy (02:24):
I mean when you say difference, let's break
that apart.
What would you say?
Societal or the concept ofdifferent that we may say,
especially in education?
That definition may be and yourdefinition of difference.
Is there a difference?
Dr. Armstead (02:38):
Society is very embracing of extroverted
individuals who they'rehardworking, they strive to
reach their goal all the timeand that kind of thing.
In education it's kind of thesame.
So I'm an introvert, dominantperson.
A lot of people mistake me forbeing extrovert, but when you go
(02:59):
into a classroom, theexpectation is that you come in.
You're obedient, as some liketo say.
You do the work, you meet theexpectations, but you're this
bubbly type of individual whenit comes to interacting with
others.
So if you have a child thatcomes from a household that has
shaped them to be an introvert,they're seen as different.
(03:21):
If you have a child who doesnot learn by direct instruction
all the time, they're seen asdifferent.
And then if you get into thosewho may have autism or some ADHD
or something like that, they'reseen as different and deficient
rather than.
This is an opportunity for meas an educator to learn how to
(03:43):
better teach all young peopleinstead of saying, oh, you just
need to mold into what everybodyelse is doing.
Christina McKelvy (03:51):
So embracing differences as opposed to
changing the difference andhaving individuals kind of mold
to society.
Dr. Armstead (04:01):
Right, because I mean we just look at the major
changes that have happened insociety.
Christina McKelvy (04:08):
They all were started by somebody who was
seen as different.
Yeah, and you know,neurodiversity is something that
has been.
You know a lot of.
There's a lot more educationaround neurodiversity, right,
and you know a lot of changes.
Let's speak a little bit moreabout neurodiversity and what
that might look like, especiallyyou know and your belief in the
appropriate way to educatesomeone that might be
(04:30):
neurodiverse.
Dr. Armstead (04:31):
I just feel like you have to as an educator, and
this is what I do.
As an educator, I feel like Ineed to learn how my students
learn, so I should be teachingin a way that they learn, rather
than trying to get them tolearn in the way that I teach.
That was a struggle I had whenI was in school, because I'm not
(04:55):
a one set type of learner, sothere's certain subjects where
I'm an auditory learner andothers are more visual.
But, growing up, most teachersif you have a student who may be
neurodivergent, it's still thismindset of well, you're just
going to have to figure out howto do it the way that I do it,
and so that's where those to me,that's where the deficiencies
(05:18):
come from, because you're notlearning the child.
You're forcing the child to bewho you want them to be.
Christina McKelvy (05:24):
My bachelor's is in interdisciplinary studies
, with an emphasis on childhoodeducation, and I remember that
we had to form our lesson plansto make sure that we were
individualizing education.
However, in reality, that wasnot.
We weren't able to do that andI know I struggled a lot, just
growing up myself with teacherssaying this is how you need to
(05:49):
learn.
Yes, even though as an adult, Irealized my learning style and
I wish I had that learning style.
I wish they taught me that waywhen I was younger Right, but I
had to become an adult to learnit.
I had to finish my education tofigure out how I needed to
learn back then.
Dr. Armstead (06:06):
Right, it's backwards and some people think
it's more difficult than what itis.
When I say teaching accordingto how your students learn, it's
just basically giving them achance to be the leader in the
classroom, because to me, I feellike the best education is when
the adult is the facilitator.
Because to me, I feel like thebest education is when the adult
is the facilitator, becausethen you really get to sit back
(06:28):
and see what the interests ofall these students are.
So then when you're teachingsomething you can bring that
into it, because even thoughteachers teach the same content
every single year, the way thatthey teach it should not be the
same way every year, becausethey're not the same students
every year.
Christina McKelvy (06:46):
You have kinetic learners, auditory
learners, visual learners, thosethat use all three, and maybe
even outside of that.
Is that still a predominanttheory of the different learning
styles, or has that changed alittle bit?
Or do you have a differentviewpoint?
Dr. Armstead (07:01):
It's the same, but I have this difficulty in
putting students in one type oflearning style, cause that's
what I see a lot of.
So like going back to math, itwasn't until I got older that I
realized that I am a visual andauditory learner.
When it comes to math, if Ihave either, or I struggle on a
(07:23):
serious level.
But usually what we do is wehave students take some type of
test or survey and they'll getkinesthetic learner.
And now everybody thinks inevery subject that's the way
they learn.
But it's not.
It's different in every subject, because if you put me in an
ELA class, I may look like I'mnot paying attention, because
(07:45):
all I need to do is hear it andthen I can tackle the assignment
.
Christina McKelvy (07:49):
I really think that's a really great
point that you're making, thatyou know we put students into a
box saying, okay, you learn.
You know by using your hands.
You know you're an auditorylearner, you're a visual learner
for all subjects.
Where different subjects aredifferent.
Math is very different fromenglish versus science and
thinking back to when I wasyounger, I was very tactile,
(08:13):
kinetic, learning through, likewith science yes love geology
because you were, you know, youheld rocks and you're able to
see it and feel it.
And then the concepts becamenatural and math.
I sucked at math until I tookMath 100.
And it was taught some.
I don't know if it was theRussian style way or whatnot,
(08:35):
but basically I had to write apaper on an equation, a
three-page paper on just oneequation.
Oh wow, yeah, it soundsridiculous.
However, I understood theequation and I found it
fascinating.
So, you know, I think that'sreally that's a really great
point that you make, thateveryone has a different
(08:56):
learning style and everyone hasa different learning style with
different subjects.
Dr. Armstead (09:00):
Yes.
Christina McKelvy (09:01):
So how do you rectify that with our state of
education today?
You know especially public, thepublic school system.
Dr. Armstead (09:08):
I question I know we're gonna solve it now is
because number one, those whoare higher up in education that
have the power to do this, thatand the other, based on their
(09:35):
experience in education.
That's where their belief inits priority comes from.
So if they grew up and they hada traumatic experience in
education, they don't care aboutswitching anything right now.
They don't care to hear hey,this is why students aren't
engaged.
You're teaching it this way.
You need to consider this.
I think the other side of thattoo.
I've noticed, the longer thatI've stayed in the field, that
(09:58):
we are becoming less and lesshuman in the system of education
.
So we are focused on testing,we're focused on grades.
We're not focused on what arethe actual things that are
causing students to be moreaggressive, more disengaged.
The parents to check out.
And when somebody brings thosethings up, it's usually like oh
(10:22):
well, that's just feelings andthose kind of things.
We don't need to consider that,or you know, that's not the
real issue, because no matterhow much money or curriculum
we've thrown at education, wecan all clearly see that it's
not solving the major issues wesee.
Christina McKelvy (10:53):
I'm sitting with that because there's so
many different ideas on how tosolve the crisis of education
and I think a lot of peopleagree that.
You know, individualizededucation is a must and it's not
always doable, especially inlow SES areas.
Dr. Armstead (11:13):
Am.
Christina McKelvy (11:13):
I correct on that, yes.
Dr. Armstead (11:16):
Yeah, I, just so to give you an example I taught
at a title one schoolno-transcript.
(11:52):
And so I told him I said go inmy office screen, yell whatever
you need to do, just don't breakanything.
And then, when you're ready tocome out of there, come sit out
here on the bleachers and let'stalk.
So when he came out and sat onthe bleachers and I just simply
asked him like what's going on?
Like this is not typical foryou, and he told me that A
(12:17):
couple of days ago his fatherhad told him that him and his
siblings were going to go visittheir mom in the hospital, and
so when they got to the hospital, she was already deceased and
the father knew that but did nottell them that.
And so he was saying that hewas talking with another
(12:40):
classmate and he said somethinglike I'm going to beat you up so
bad, I'm going to send you tothe hospital, or something like
that.
And hearing that word hospitaltriggered him and the reason why
I didn't realize it at the time, but the reason why he was so
quick to yell and argue with histeachers all of his teachers
were female and he just lost hismom.
(13:03):
And so I'm sitting there talkingwith him.
His class is over having thisdiscussion.
I just look at him and I'm like, do you need a hug?
And he grabbed me so tight anddidn't let go for the longest
time and from that point on Icould talk to him and tell him
like, look, I get it.
(13:23):
I'll never understand that typeof pain.
But you have to understand thatsome people don't know what's
going on in your life unless youtell them.
So you can't get angry if theydon't know.
But you got to have thatconversation and years after
that I was in a Target.
It was during COVID lockdown,so I had a mask on, I had a
(13:47):
different hairstyle.
And I'm standing there talkingwith my mom and all of a sudden
somebody walks up to me and says, hey, are you, miss Armstead
from Baba Baba?
And I was like yeah.
He was like hey, it's me, and itwas just my voice that he
remembered, so that sticks withme because that's what I mean by
(14:08):
individualizing education isyes, he's going to get his
consequences, yes, he's going toneed some additional help with
academics, but take the time andlet that child know I see you
and I hear you and I value you,because now, no matter where I
(14:28):
am, if that child sees me,they're not going to remember
what I was teaching.
Christina McKelvy (14:32):
They're going to remember this person loved
(14:58):
me and they will work harder.
He felt that and that motivatedhim not necessarily like not
just behaviorally to do better,but academically right and he
succeeded and thrived wow yeah,that's kind of stuff that I I
can have.
I have stories for days let'sgo for it, and so these are
(15:18):
stories that are in your bookyes, yeah, so my book is real
authentic.
Dr. Armstead (15:23):
It Some people have said it's kind of like a
conviction, because I'm notsaying I'm a perfect educator
and I have it all together.
But I think the way that we'retrained to be educators, we
forget sometimes that it's notall meant to be robotic, that
(15:43):
it's not all meant to be robotic.
So when I speak about certainthings like I talk about dress
codes and different things likethat it's not a traditional type
of opinion about it and it getspeople to think like that is
true or I never thought aboutthat, instead of just washing
over everything instead ofwashing over everything, what
(16:07):
are some examples that you wouldwant to share?
Christina McKelvy (16:10):
you know you mentioned the story of you know
this child.
Are there additional um themesin your book that you want to
highlight?
Yes, um.
Dr. Armstead (16:19):
the main thing and it you will see um or who are,
they will see whomever reads thebook is that my main goal for
education is reconciliation.
There's very much a we versusthem when it comes to education.
We meaning those who areemployees of the school, and
then them, the student, theparents and whomever else.
(16:42):
And so, even when it comes toadministration, I will never
forget my first year teaching.
The principal called me intothe office because at the time
you had to go to theadministrator's office to find
out if you had a contract or not, and I was told that I was not
going to be renewed because shefelt that I didn't fit in
(17:05):
education.
When was this?
Christina McKelvy (17:09):
Like the beginning of your career, Like I
guess that's what I'm asking.
Dr. Armstead (17:12):
My very first year of teaching, oh my goodness.
And so she said I didn't fit ineducation and I needed to go
back to college and look atfinding a different career.
And I remember sitting therelike what?
Like I just spent all this timegetting this degree and you
(17:32):
told me I don't fit in educationand I wanted to quit.
Like I tell everybody, I wantedto quit 18 years ago because I
did not want to try to provemyself.
But I believe the reason whyshe felt that way was because I
was different.
And so that goes back to thattitle, where different is seen
(17:55):
as deficient rather thandifferent should be seen as
something that can shift,something for the positive.
I am not a traditional teacher.
I speak about things Itypically.
I've had lots of people tell meyou say what people are
thinking but are afraid to say.
And so my first year ofteaching, I didn't want to go in
there and be a robot.
(18:16):
I was trying to connect with thestudents and play the music
that they enjoyed, and I guessthat's what it means to not fit
in education.
Christina McKelvy (18:24):
And what grade was that?
Dr. Armstead (18:25):
That was kindergarten through fifth grade
.
Christina McKelvy (18:29):
Okay, okay.
So you were told because youwere, because you were different
, you didn't fit that mold.
Your boss basically said goback to college.
Go back to school for anotherfour years, get a different
career.
And you were like no, you.
You bounced back, you had thatresilience and now you're here
(18:51):
as a dean of students.
You mentioned reconciliationearlier.
I'm curious the link betweenhaving that reconciliation you
know, students havingreconciliation and their
resilience in education or ingeneral like that link.
If you see there's a link inthere Once.
Dr. Armstead (19:07):
So basically, what I mean about reconciliation is,
once people know that you wantthem on your team and you're
genuine about it, they are goingto work harder than you in some
instances and they are alwaysgoing to be willing to step up.
But when they feel like, oh,I'm just additional help, I'm
(19:30):
not really needed, then that'swhere we see what we do now.
I believe personally.
I believe that's why parentalengagement is low.
I believe that's why studentengagement is low.
I believe that's why a lot ofteachers are leaving the field,
because there's no.
That's why a lot of teachersare leaving the field because
there's no sense of we're inthis together.
(19:51):
It is very much.
Even me being an administrator,I get flat because I let staff
know I'm not here and you'rehere up top and I'm at.
You know I'm up top and you'reat the bottom.
We're in the same boat.
We need to do this togetherbecause the ultimate goal is
student success, not mine.
Christina McKelvy (20:09):
Yeah, you're a guide and you know, I think
Western society tends to havethat leader like.
I'm up here, you know, look atme, ivory tower.
You know, follow me, I'm theexpert, whereas a lot of other
cultures have more of like.
I'm going to walk alongside you.
Dr. Armstead (20:24):
I did this.
Christina McKelvy (20:25):
I don't know if it's an ABA model, but
someone that I know that's aBCBA and I use this as well.
You know some of my parentsthat I counsel it's I do, we do,
you do, and so I think a lot ofculture is like we're going to
do this together.
You know, observe me, we'll doit together, and now I will have
(20:46):
you do it on your own, but Iwill be there to guide you and
support you instead of I'm theexpert.
look at me, follow me, don'tquestion me yes, that is huge
and I'm assuming that you youquestioned yeah how did you
guess I?
Don't know, it was just a guess, because I did the same thing
(21:10):
and yeah, anyways go ahead.
Dr. Armstead (21:13):
I mean, and it's not me questioning, as though
like I'm questioning somebody'sauthority.
Christina McKelvy (21:19):
It's me saying why do we keep doing this
?
Dr. Armstead (21:24):
Oh yes, I mean, I served on a school board I think
it was three years ago and thatwas the one reason why I
eventually had to step downafter five months, because there
was almost like so much hatredfor me asking questions to get
to the root of the cause lot,because I want to know why is it
(21:44):
that we do this?
Is it because it's what'scomfortable?
Is it because we fear what mayhappen if we step out of that?
Because if it's not working,why keep doing it?
And that's a major thing ineducation right now.
I don't question why we traineducators the way we do to say,
(22:06):
hey, this whole thing sucks andwe need to start all over.
But, like, why are we trainingteachers to believe that when
they get in the classroom,there's perfect students and all
you have to do is be in controland everything is going to be
good, rather than having them doone semester of student
teaching in an alternativeschool and then the other
semester in a gen ed school sothey can see that you know, some
(22:29):
of these students are going tobe in your classroom.
What are you going to do tocreate that connection of being
human first?
Christina McKelvy (22:37):
That's the key being human first.
Dr. Armstead (22:40):
Yes, but it's scary for some people and I
don't understand why.
Christina McKelvy (22:45):
Hmm, to see the human?
Yes, I'm not sure.
Dr. Armstead (22:49):
Okay, or to be human.
I actually got some negativefeedback because I had a
conversation with a student onetime who asked me why, like, was
I married?
And I explained.
I told him no, I'm divorced,I'm a single parent, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And the adults felt like, oh,you don't need to be that
(23:09):
personal with students, but myattitude is why not?
Then they know if they're in asingle parent household?
Here's somebody else that, okay, cool, she can.
I know what she's going throughbecause my mom is going through
it.
It's not just me.
Christina McKelvy (23:26):
They see themselves in you or they see
their situation in you.
You have that attunement.
Dr. Armstead (23:31):
Exactly.
Christina McKelvy (23:32):
Yeah, and I'm sure that attunement between
educator and student again helpswith that reconciliation you're
talking about, helps with thatstudent moving forward and being
successful.
It does.
It's huge.
Dr. Armstead (23:45):
I mean, think about your favorite teacher and
why they were your favoriteteacher.
And it's because they werehuman.
They made you feel seen andheard, not because they were
this dictator in the classroom.
Christina McKelvy (24:02):
So that's really true, mr Walsh, that was
his name, and I was teased whenI was younger.
A lot so was I.
Dr. Armstead (24:23):
When I was younger .
Christina McKelvy (24:24):
I was very awkward and it was in third
grade, my third grade teacher,and he sent me to his wife's
classroom for the day to helpthe second graders, you know, to
help them out and it was like Iwas kind of like already
questioning, like why is hedoing that?
I came back and all thestudents were super nice to me.
Christina, that's a reallygreat drawing.
Oh, my goodness, you're a greatwriter, christina.
I love your shirt, and a lot ofit was empty platitudes, but
what I found out was he spoke tothem about why are you so mean
to her?
(24:44):
And it was a specific incidentthat happened because it was
ongoing teasing.
A lot of kids were teased youknow I wasn't the only one, but
it was a specific incident thattriggered him to talk to them
and that stuck with me becausehe you know whether you agree
with the approach or not he sawme and he really wanted to nip
(25:06):
that in the bud.
Now that only lasted for a fewmonths because it was third
grade, right, you know, butthat's that has stuck with me
forever.
And the teachers that did notthe other teachers that stick
with me are the teachers thatdidn't see me as human.
Yes, or?
Didn't hear me, didn't see meand human, yes, or didn't hear
me, didn't see me.
Dr. Armstead (25:27):
And I talk about some of those in my book too.
I also.
I do music, so I have music onSpotify and there's one song
called.
Educational Trauma, and that isa song where I talk about a lot
of things that happened to me.
So the good teachers are theones that we remember, but also
those ones that, like they justcreated I just call it
(25:47):
educational trauma they createdsome part of you that you will
never forget about education,and I think that's why it's so
important for me, when I'mtalking with parents, to share
those things, because then theycan understand that just because
I'm in this position doesn'tmean I had a perfect experience.
(26:10):
So because some parents don'tcome to the school because of
the trauma they had when theywere little.
So I want to break that down bysaying, hey, this is what I've
experienced, this is what I'vegone through.
So you see the human sittinghere, but then you also see this
passionate dean of studentsthat's trying to help your child
(26:34):
from a heart perspective.
Christina McKelvy (26:37):
Let's dig into that a little bit more.
Your experience growing upBecause that, you know, sounds
like that played a huge role inyou being an educator.
You've seen the systemic issuesin the field of education.
Wanting to make a change, youknow is.
Are there any pivotal momentsyou would feel okay sharing with
my listeners that helped propelyou to this work?
Dr. Armstead (26:57):
So there's two very specific instances, and one
of them well, actually three.
It started in third grade.
I don't know why third grade iswhere a lot of students have
trauma.
Christina McKelvy (27:08):
I know Right.
Dr. Armstead (27:09):
But I went to.
I was at a Catholic school atthe time and we were coming back
from lunch and the nun wantedeverybody to go to the bathroom
and at the time I didn't have togo to the bathroom, so I didn't
go.
And then we went back to theclassroom and we were in there
for about an hour or so and Ihad to go to the restroom and I
(27:33):
asked her and she said no.
So I asked her a couple moretimes and she was like no, you
should have went when I told youto go.
And I ended up using thebathroom on myself and the whole
class laughing at me and thenher calling my parents and lying
and telling my parents I had anaccident because I had refused
to go to the bathroom and it wasreally just.
(27:56):
I didn't have to go when youtold me to go.
But now that I have to go, nowyou're holding me hostage.
And the reason why that?
That's why I'm not such acontrolling teacher and I don't
get triggered when studentsdon't necessarily want to do
something that I'm asking themto do, because sometimes it's
(28:17):
not like a rebellion thing,sometimes it's just they don't
want to do it.
At the time.
They don't trust me, trust me.
The second instance was math.
I don't know why, when I was achild, me and math, just we did
not get along.
And so it was seventh grade,math.
I was getting bullied in theband class before that class and
(28:46):
so he I remember he wasteaching some kind of I don't
even remember on the board and Ijust it was not clicking.
And so I raised my hand to askif he could explain it one more
time and his exact words werewell, maybe if you weren't
talking you would understand it.
And I just started crying and Iremember it was like a pool of
tears on my desk Again, studentslaughing at me.
He called the principal down,said I was being disruptive to
(29:08):
the class, um called my parentsand told them that I wasn't
paying attention and all thatkind of stuff, and from seventh
grade on I struggled in mathcompletely.
Last instance was high school.
I was heavily, severely bulliedin high school and in fact in
seventh grade I actually hadattempted suicide because of
(29:32):
bullying.
So when I got to high school Iwas just completely at my wits
end and I woke up one morningand I said I'm not going to talk
unless somebody talks to me.
I started school at 7.10 am andschool ended at 2.10 pm.
I did not talk that entire dayso no students spoke to me.
(29:56):
The teacher didn't call on me,no one said hey.
When I was in the hallway, noone acknowledged me.
So I literally sat silent for awhole entire eight hours.
And that pushed me further intoeducation to say, even if this
child does not like me forpersonal reasons, I'm going to
(30:19):
acknowledge them and say hey orgood morning, or how are you?
Because I don't know if thatchild is feeling the same way
that I am, or internalizing thismindset of nobody's talking to
me so I don't need to be here.
So those are very three.
I've gone through a lot butthose are three significant
(30:39):
situations that really, evensome days when I'm like you know
what, maybe I need to get outof education because this is too
tough right now, even some dayswhen I'm like you know what,
maybe I need to get out ofeducation because this is too
tough right now, those are thethings that keep me in it and
push me to have that motivation.
Like it may not be seen rightnow, but later on in life you're
going to see the fruit of yourlabor.
Because, I didn't go through allthat stuff just to suffer.
(31:01):
I believe I went through thatso I could be a different
teacher, even though differentis seen as deficient in
education.
Christina McKelvy (31:09):
Yeah, different is seen as deficient
when it really shouldn't beright.
Yeah, and those experiencesthat you mentioned.
It's interesting.
It's third and seventh grade.
Both are very critical ages.
You know where kids arechanging, you know.
Third, grade eight, nine, you're, and then you're, you know,
(31:29):
years old, seventh grade, Ithink.
It's like 12, 13, high school,you know.
So those are all verysignificant ages and one thing
that was one thing that'sinteresting is in your high
school experience, like you knowthe teacher you mentioned, like
teacher saying hi, even if youdon't like the teacher still, or
(31:49):
if you know the student doesn'tlike you still saying hi, you
know, seeing the human, youmight be the only safe adult
that they have yes, yes, and infact this year.
Dr. Armstead (32:01):
Um, it's funny because usually students say
they're scared of me when theysee me because they say I'm very
stern and serious face, andthen when they see I'm a big kid
, they're like, oh no, she justlooks mean.
But I had a student this year.
He reminded me of myself somuch in high school.
Um, it was a time where I thinkit was a situation where him and
(32:25):
his girlfriend had broke upyeah and all of a sudden he was
just going off campus and I hadbuilt a connection with his mom
and I had texted her like yourson is not on campus, did you
know about it?
She's like no, nobody contactedme.
So she took off work, wentlooking, got him on the phone
(32:46):
and this child was about to walkinto oncoming traffic on I-17
oh my goodness.
And she pulled up to the school,handed me the phone and said I
need you to talk to my son, Ijust need you to talk to, oh, my
lungs.
And I'm like, don't do me.
You are about to do me.
I cannot let you do that.
Christina McKelvy (33:21):
If no one else has said it.
Dr. Armstead (33:24):
I love you, Listen to me.
And so eventually I was able togo and with his mom and get him
and and just talk to him.
And ever since then, just talkto him.
And ever since then there'ssometimes I don't even need to
say a word to him.
He, he knows, I'm just makingsure that you're good.
(33:47):
And I think those thosesituations, and that one
specifically, had I not gonethrough what I went through,
where I felt rejected and I felt, you know what, let me just pop
these aspirin pills I know I'msuper allergic to and then kill
myself, if I hadn't gone throughthat, I would not have been
able to connect with this child.
And so that passion sometimesor that leniency with some
(34:07):
students people see it as mebeing weak or a pushover, but
they don't understand.
It's because I can feel whatthat child is going through,
because I've been there and Idon't want them to do me, I
don't want them to make mymistake.
Christina McKelvy (34:25):
Don't do me, and that was that
self-disclosure.
Dr. Armstead (34:28):
You were telling the child don't do me.
Christina McKelvy (34:31):
You were being human and I'm sure a lot
of teachers would never sharethat much info at the time.
Dr. Armstead (34:37):
No, definitely not .
Yeah, I don't know why it'sscary, though I feel like I just
want I want students tounderstand that where you are
now is not where you're alwaysgoing to be, and to embrace the
fact that you see thingsdifferent, because for many
years of my life, even being aneducator, I tried to do what
everybody else was doing,because that's how I thought I
(35:00):
was going to find success, butactually all it did was suppress
who I was really meant to be,to save these students from
whatever situations they mightget into and it's interesting
(35:27):
because in the field of mentalhealth it's similar.
Christina McKelvy (35:30):
You know, there's the whole blank slate.
You know, don't disclose as thetherapist, again because of that
perception of authority rightand and sometimes that's
appropriate, but other times,you know, when I have disclosed
the clients and said me too, Iunderstand, I see you, I hear
(35:51):
you because I was there.
Our alignment strengthens andI'm still, you know, still
walking alongside them, but itshifts and they have that hope.
Yes, and you know so, I, Icould totally see how in
education it would be similarand that hope, yeah just like
(36:11):
you mentioned, hope it's, it'sit.
Dr. Armstead (36:14):
To me that's the main thing missing in education.
Um if you think about it, yeahtest scores, college
expectations, you know all thethings that are put on children,
that it it suppresses that hopethat you know you can do
something.
Because, even though we arefour years out of the lockdowns,
(36:35):
we have to think about the factthat these young people went
from being social and with theirfriends to silence only through
a laptop.
And then, even when they cameback to school, it was, oh, you
can't sit next to each other,you can't do this, you can't do
that.
And then after that it was, hey, it's normal.
Hey, it's normal.
(36:59):
That doesn't help a childmentally to even understand.
Am I going to actually be ableto function once I'm not in
school, or am I okay because Idon't know what I want to do
after high school?
There's a lot of suppression ofthe concept of giving them hope
, even though there's all thisnegative stuff that they're
still processing through.
Christina McKelvy (37:15):
And would you say that this generation has
less hope for the future thanour generation when we were
growing?
Dr. Armstead (37:23):
up.
I would say so.
My son is currently 16.
And when I hear him talk about,when he says, my generation,
sometimes it actually breaks myheart because it does sound like
they don't have hope, becausethey're looking at the previous
generation, which is theirparents, and how we're
(37:46):
processing and strugglingthrough this.
So they're like, okay, well, ifthey're struggling, what the
heck am I going to do?
But my son also asked thequestion.
He said why is it that thisgeneration has to go through all
of this negative stuff in theworld?
And I said it's because yourgeneration is stronger than mine
.
That's why you were born atthis specific time, because you
(38:09):
guys are going to get older andthis is going to be the
foundation to make you stronger,more self-aware adults.
My generation didn't have to gothrough all that.
I think the craziest thing forme growing up was 9-11 and Y2K
when everybody thought the worldwas going to shut down.
Christina McKelvy (38:27):
Yeah, in 2008 , the economic crisis.
Dr. Armstead (38:29):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christina McKelvy (38:30):
I think, but that didn't really affect me as
much.
But yeah, 9-11, I was asophomore junior.
I was a junior in high schoolme as much.
Dr. Armstead (38:36):
But yeah, 9-11, I was a sophomore junior.
I was a junior in high school,I had just graduated and of
course I was not payingattention to the news.
But my brother told me to turnon the TV and it just,
completely like I explained tomy son, I'm, like you imagine,
going from planes flying andhearing all this noise to now
just silence.
And now you go to the airport.
You got to take your shoes offand your family.
(38:56):
And now you go to the airport.
You got to take your shoes offand your family can't come with
you to the gate, like that wassignificant, but it wasn't a
social silence like they had togo through.
I can never imagine that.
Christina McKelvy (39:08):
Oh, yes, and speaking of today's youth and
the social aspects, yes, thepandemic, that social silence
and I love that term, that issuch an accurate term but you
know, social media plays a hugerole in our youth today.
You know, the young Gen Z andAlpha, I don't know, I don't
(39:35):
remember either.
Alpha I don't know, I don'tremember either.
You know, but yeah, and so I'msure that social media is
obviously has its influence intheir perception of hope in
their future yes, and I thething about that too.
Dr. Armstead (39:52):
Again, me being different and me questioning um.
A lot of teachers want to fightsocial media and the
educational setting, but I Ifind that it's easier if we use
it to our benefit.
So there's been times wherestudents have have asked
questions about certain conceptsor whatever.
Christina McKelvy (40:14):
And.
Dr. Armstead (40:14):
I show them how they can go on TikTok TikTok
especially and get those answersquickly and then have them
teach a classmate you learned it, Now you teach, and if you
can't teach it, that means youhaven't learned it.
Or just pulling up videos thatsomebody may have on there and
(40:37):
having them watch it at thebeginning of class and then
having them have a conversationabout it and just to check in,
and what I find is that if youdon't fight those things, then
again you're seen as human andyour students are going to
respect you.
I play Fortnite because of mystudents.
I play Fortnite because of mystudents I talk about, I stream
(41:10):
my video games online because ofmy students, because they were
in class talking about it allthe time.
So I'm going to waste moreenergy trying to fight and get
them to be quiet than to justsay, oh yeah, let's get back to
what we need to handle.
But social media is alsonegative.
If they are, they don't haveany boundaries with it, and so I
think that's why we have tostop blaming parents and start,
as a system, recognizing that ifwe're irritated with it in our
(41:33):
classroom, let's have thathonest discussion about how it
can be harmful, instead of justremaining quiet and expecting
parents to handle it or thinkingthat a suspension or detention
is going to stop them from usingit.
Christina McKelvy (41:48):
And it doesn't.
Dr. Armstead (41:49):
No, absolutely not .
Christina McKelvy (41:52):
They find a way, they find a way, and so
what are some of the thingsyou're doing besides, you know,
being an administrator?
What are some additional thingsthat you're doing within the
Arizona area or just in generalyou know, to make change?
You know I have some thingslisted, like the homeless
initiative.
Dr. Armstead (42:17):
Yes.
So I started that homelessnessinitiative when I went out I
think it was last summer and Iwas working with another friend
of mine who has a non-profit andpassing out food, and I saw
that there were a lot ofteenagers.
Um, and it broke me because Ijust I cannot imagine and I'm so
thankful that my parents didnot kick me out when I was 18.
(42:39):
But from that I was.
Every time the weather changesor something goes on, it just I
just those are the firstindividuals I think about.
Like something as simple inArizona that we don't think
about is sunglasses.
Imagine experiencinghomelessness and you're walking
out on the streets in 115 degreeweather and you don't even have
(43:00):
sunglasses to protect your eyesor an umbrella.
So I started that initiativeand I want to keep it rolling,
just to continuously be able tohelp those individuals out,
because not everyone who isexperiencing homelessness is an
addict or put themselves in thatsituation.
If it wasn't for my parents, Iprobably would be on the streets
(43:22):
.
But I also go and volunteer in adetention center here in
Phoenix.
I work with another nonprofitand we go in and try to help
those young people who arecurrently incarcerated to think
about a business or a careergoal that they can work to,
(43:43):
create a vision for and developit, so that when they do get
released they do not end up backin there.
Even working with those youngpeople, it's more of again that
(44:11):
being human and showing themthat they're seen, rather than
this hey, I'm not in coach, soto speak, and tell them like,
just don't get stuck on what'shappening right now, because if
you're meant to do somethingspecial in this world, it is
going to be more difficult foryou than the average person,
(44:32):
because if it's easy to createchange, everyone will be able to
create positive change.
So the difficulties that we gothrough, they're not just for us
to go through and suffer.
They're supposed to be so thatwe can use that, in whatever
realm we end up in, to make achange and create that legacy.
Christina McKelvy (44:52):
And, like you mentioned at the beginning of
the episode, all of the changemakers were perceived as
different.
Dr. Armstead (44:58):
Yes.
Christina McKelvy (45:00):
Yeah, and so using that difference to your
advantage and seeing thosechildren that may be different
and help grow, that encourage itstrengthen it and just
acknowledge them.
Dr. Armstead (45:13):
I think a lot of students go unacknowledged yeah,
and that's where they go toschool and they're just like,
well, I don't care.
Or they're out on the streetsdoing things to hurt themselves
because they don't feel likeanybody sees them foster that
(45:37):
hope and being just seeing thehuman humanity and I think
that's something that we'relosing and we need to bring back
, you know, into education, intomental health, into healthcare,
politics, everything,everything, everything, life,
exactly.
Christina McKelvy (45:48):
Well, Dr Armstead, I would like to ask
you this question.
I ask everybody, since we are,excuse me, wrapping up what
gives you hope?
What brings you hope?
Dr. Armstead (46:02):
Wow, that's a.
So there's a few things thatgive me hope.
Um, number one I am a believer.
Um, so God is my ultimate hope.
Um, I have been through some,through some very dark days and,
in fact, in 2020, I almostpassed, and so coming through
(46:23):
that and knowing that I survived, that is what gives me the hope
to focus on the fact that it isgoing to get better and it is
going to be sunshine on theother side of the clouds.
The other thing that gives mehope is my son.
He has seen me in my worst.
(46:43):
He seen me in the midst ofcustody battle, getting laid off
from a job, all those thingsand he still turns around and
tells me I'm learning from youand I'm learning from your
mistakes too, so that I can goand do better.
And that just gives me hopebecause it reminds me that, even
(47:05):
when we don't get it right,there's somebody that's going to
use it to get it right.
So those are the two biggestthings and, of course, my
parents.
I'm the baby of the family, soI'm kind of spoiled, but my
parents have a unique storythemselves and the stuff that
they went through just to be thesuccessful individuals they are
now is still.
(47:26):
That brings me hope because Idon't get stuck on in this
moment.
I have to keep recognizing thatas long as I'm moving, it's
better than me sitting still.
Christina McKelvy (47:41):
As long as I'm moving, it's better than me
sitting still.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on my podcast and
everything you're doing tochange education, to see the
human in your students.
You can find all.
I'll put all your informationin the show notes, but you know
(48:03):
why don't you share?
Where can people find you?
Dr. Armstead (48:06):
Well, I am everywhere.
Christina McKelvy (48:08):
I saw that.
That's why I was like I'll justlet you do it.
Dr. Armstead (48:12):
So because I was on a school board, I can't hide
anymore.
Christina McKelvy (48:16):
I'm on.
Dr. Armstead (48:17):
Instagram at Dr Armstead.
I'm on TikTok at Dr Armstead-AZ.
I am on YouTube, Dr Armstead-AZ, and those are pretty much the
major ways to find me and foranybody listening, just know
that you may support me on someof the things that I say
(48:39):
sometimes, but then other timesyou'll be like I don't know what
she's talking about.
She's crazy.
Christina McKelvy (48:45):
It's not just life, though.
Dr. Armstead (48:47):
You know yes.
Christina McKelvy (48:48):
Um, but we'll thank you so much for you know,
like I said, coming on here andI will post all that
information in my show notes,and, and I will post all that
information in my show notes,and, yeah, let's you know.
I hope that everyone has ahopeful and healing rest of
their day.
No-transcript.
Welcome to Apology Stories of Hope, healing
and Resilience.
I'm your host, christinaMcKelvey, today.
I want to welcome Dr TaraArmstead.
She is the Dean of Students ata school in Phoenix and has been
an educator for over 18 years.
Welcome.
Dr. Armstead (00:16):
Thank you for having me.
Christina McKelvy (00:18):
Let's start off by you know why don't you
tell my audience a little bitabout you, your background and
your book that?
Dr. Armstead (00:23):
you have.
So, as far as who I am and mybackground, I was a child that
grew up.
I had both parents, did nothave any major struggles that
some would think, but I didfight against rejection and
depression and suicidal thoughtsfor a significant amount of
(00:44):
time in my life, and so gettinginto the field of education for
me was to go and try to correctwhat I experienced when I was in
school, because the teacher Iam is the teacher I wish I had,
and my book is an extension ofthat.
So I've worked with a lot ofdifferent students in a lot of
different situations of that.
(01:05):
So I've worked with a lot ofdifferent students in a lot of
different situations and after2020, a lot of students were
saying you need to write a book,you need to tell our story, and
so that's what the book is.
It's from my perspective as astudent and a teacher, but also
the feedback that I got from mystudents.
Christina McKelvy (01:20):
You know, Dr Armstead, I love that you just
said the teacher I am is theteacher I wish I had.
Dr. Armstead (01:26):
Yes, definitely, and that's because so part of
the book sometimes when peopleread the title, they they get a
little in their feelings,because I say that education can
make people think thatdifferent is bad, and a lot of
us, if we really took the timeto think about it, we can
(01:46):
remember at least one teacherthat made us feel like we were
deficient because we weredifferent, and so I remember
feeling that way.
Most of the time it was like amath class, because that's one
of my weak areas.
And so you get me.
Christina McKelvy (02:05):
Oh, my goodness, yes.
Dr. Armstead (02:07):
The the.
The main thing I wanted to dowas ensure that students do not
feel deficient just becausethey're different.
I want them to embrace that,because you're only going to be
successful and leave a legacywhen you you hold true to
yourself.
Christina McKelvy (02:24):
I mean when you say difference, let's break
that apart.
What would you say?
Societal or the concept ofdifferent that we may say,
especially in education?
That definition may be and yourdefinition of difference.
Is there a difference?
Dr. Armstead (02:38):
Society is very embracing of extroverted
individuals who they'rehardworking, they strive to
reach their goal all the timeand that kind of thing.
In education it's kind of thesame.
So I'm an introvert, dominantperson.
A lot of people mistake me forbeing extrovert, but when you go
(02:59):
into a classroom, theexpectation is that you come in.
You're obedient, as some liketo say.
You do the work, you meet theexpectations, but you're this
bubbly type of individual whenit comes to interacting with
others.
So if you have a child thatcomes from a household that has
shaped them to be an introvert,they're seen as different.
(03:21):
If you have a child who doesnot learn by direct instruction
all the time, they're seen asdifferent.
And then if you get into thosewho may have autism or some ADHD
or something like that, they'reseen as different and deficient
rather than.
This is an opportunity for meas an educator to learn how to
(03:43):
better teach all young peopleinstead of saying, oh, you just
need to mold into what everybodyelse is doing.
Christina McKelvy (03:51):
So embracing differences as opposed to
changing the difference andhaving individuals kind of mold
to society.
Dr. Armstead (04:01):
Right, because I mean we just look at the major
changes that have happened insociety.
Christina McKelvy (04:08):
They all were started by somebody who was
seen as different.
Yeah, and you know,neurodiversity is something that
has been.
You know a lot of.
There's a lot more educationaround neurodiversity, right,
and you know a lot of changes.
Let's speak a little bit moreabout neurodiversity and what
that might look like, especiallyyou know and your belief in the
appropriate way to educatesomeone that might be
(04:30):
neurodiverse.
Dr. Armstead (04:31):
I just feel like you have to as an educator, and
this is what I do.
As an educator, I feel like Ineed to learn how my students
learn, so I should be teachingin a way that they learn, rather
than trying to get them tolearn in the way that I teach.
That was a struggle I had whenI was in school, because I'm not
(04:55):
a one set type of learner, sothere's certain subjects where
I'm an auditory learner andothers are more visual.
But, growing up, most teachersif you have a student who may be
neurodivergent, it's still thismindset of well, you're just
going to have to figure out howto do it the way that I do it,
and so that's where those to me,that's where the deficiencies
(05:18):
come from, because you're notlearning the child.
You're forcing the child to bewho you want them to be.
Christina McKelvy (05:24):
My bachelor's is in interdisciplinary studies
, with an emphasis on childhoodeducation, and I remember that
we had to form our lesson plansto make sure that we were
individualizing education.
However, in reality, that wasnot.
We weren't able to do that andI know I struggled a lot, just
growing up myself with teacherssaying this is how you need to
(05:49):
learn.
Yes, even though as an adult, Irealized my learning style and
I wish I had that learning style.
I wish they taught me that waywhen I was younger Right, but I
had to become an adult to learnit.
I had to finish my education tofigure out how I needed to
learn back then.
Dr. Armstead (06:06):
Right, it's backwards and some people think
it's more difficult than what itis.
When I say teaching accordingto how your students learn, it's
just basically giving them achance to be the leader in the
classroom, because to me, I feellike the best education is when
the adult is the facilitator.
Because to me, I feel like thebest education is when the adult
is the facilitator, becausethen you really get to sit back
(06:28):
and see what the interests ofall these students are.
So then when you're teachingsomething you can bring that
into it, because even thoughteachers teach the same content
every single year, the way thatthey teach it should not be the
same way every year, becausethey're not the same students
every year.
Christina McKelvy (06:46):
You have kinetic learners, auditory
learners, visual learners, thosethat use all three, and maybe
even outside of that.
Is that still a predominanttheory of the different learning
styles, or has that changed alittle bit?
Or do you have a differentviewpoint?
Dr. Armstead (07:01):
It's the same, but I have this difficulty in
putting students in one type oflearning style, cause that's
what I see a lot of.
So like going back to math, itwasn't until I got older that I
realized that I am a visual andauditory learner.
When it comes to math, if Ihave either, or I struggle on a
(07:23):
serious level.
But usually what we do is wehave students take some type of
test or survey and they'll getkinesthetic learner.
And now everybody thinks inevery subject that's the way
they learn.
But it's not.
It's different in every subject, because if you put me in an
ELA class, I may look like I'mnot paying attention, because
(07:45):
all I need to do is hear it andthen I can tackle the assignment
.
Christina McKelvy (07:49):
I really think that's a really great
point that you're making, thatyou know we put students into a
box saying, okay, you learn.
You know by using your hands.
You know you're an auditorylearner, you're a visual learner
for all subjects.
Where different subjects aredifferent.
Math is very different fromenglish versus science and
thinking back to when I wasyounger, I was very tactile,
(08:13):
kinetic, learning through, likewith science yes love geology
because you were, you know, youheld rocks and you're able to
see it and feel it.
And then the concepts becamenatural and math.
I sucked at math until I tookMath 100.
And it was taught some.
I don't know if it was theRussian style way or whatnot,
(08:35):
but basically I had to write apaper on an equation, a
three-page paper on just oneequation.
Oh wow, yeah, it soundsridiculous.
However, I understood theequation and I found it
fascinating.
So, you know, I think that'sreally that's a really great
point that you make, thateveryone has a different
(08:56):
learning style and everyone hasa different learning style with
different subjects.
Dr. Armstead (09:00):
Yes.
Christina McKelvy (09:01):
So how do you rectify that with our state of
education today?
You know especially public, thepublic school system.
Dr. Armstead (09:08):
I question I know we're gonna solve it now is
because number one, those whoare higher up in education that
have the power to do this, thatand the other, based on their
(09:35):
experience in education.
That's where their belief inits priority comes from.
So if they grew up and they hada traumatic experience in
education, they don't care aboutswitching anything right now.
They don't care to hear hey,this is why students aren't
engaged.
You're teaching it this way.
You need to consider this.
I think the other side of thattoo.
I've noticed, the longer thatI've stayed in the field, that
(09:58):
we are becoming less and lesshuman in the system of education
.
So we are focused on testing,we're focused on grades.
We're not focused on what arethe actual things that are
causing students to be moreaggressive, more disengaged.
The parents to check out.
And when somebody brings thosethings up, it's usually like oh
(10:22):
well, that's just feelings andthose kind of things.
We don't need to consider that,or you know, that's not the
real issue, because no matterhow much money or curriculum
we've thrown at education, wecan all clearly see that it's
not solving the major issues wesee.
Christina McKelvy (10:53):
I'm sitting with that because there's so
many different ideas on how tosolve the crisis of education
and I think a lot of peopleagree that.
You know, individualizededucation is a must and it's not
always doable, especially inlow SES areas.
Dr. Armstead (11:13):
Am.
Christina McKelvy (11:13):
I correct on that, yes.
Dr. Armstead (11:16):
Yeah, I, just so to give you an example I taught
at a title one schoolno-transcript.
(11:52):
And so I told him I said go inmy office screen, yell whatever
you need to do, just don't breakanything.
And then, when you're ready tocome out of there, come sit out
here on the bleachers and let'stalk.
So when he came out and sat onthe bleachers and I just simply
asked him like what's going on?
Like this is not typical foryou, and he told me that A
(12:17):
couple of days ago his fatherhad told him that him and his
siblings were going to go visittheir mom in the hospital, and
so when they got to the hospital, she was already deceased and
the father knew that but did nottell them that.
And so he was saying that hewas talking with another
(12:40):
classmate and he said somethinglike I'm going to beat you up so
bad, I'm going to send you tothe hospital, or something like
that.
And hearing that word hospitaltriggered him and the reason why
I didn't realize it at the time, but the reason why he was so
quick to yell and argue with histeachers all of his teachers
were female and he just lost hismom.
(13:03):
And so I'm sitting there talkingwith him.
His class is over having thisdiscussion.
I just look at him and I'm like, do you need a hug?
And he grabbed me so tight anddidn't let go for the longest
time and from that point on Icould talk to him and tell him
like, look, I get it.
(13:23):
I'll never understand that typeof pain.
But you have to understand thatsome people don't know what's
going on in your life unless youtell them.
So you can't get angry if theydon't know.
But you got to have thatconversation and years after
that I was in a Target.
It was during COVID lockdown,so I had a mask on, I had a
(13:47):
different hairstyle.
And I'm standing there talkingwith my mom and all of a sudden
somebody walks up to me and says, hey, are you, miss Armstead
from Baba Baba?
And I was like yeah.
He was like hey, it's me, and itwas just my voice that he
remembered, so that sticks withme because that's what I mean by
(14:08):
individualizing education isyes, he's going to get his
consequences, yes, he's going toneed some additional help with
academics, but take the time andlet that child know I see you
and I hear you and I value you,because now, no matter where I
(14:28):
am, if that child sees me,they're not going to remember
what I was teaching.
Christina McKelvy (14:32):
They're going to remember this person loved
(14:58):
me and they will work harder.
He felt that and that motivatedhim not necessarily like not
just behaviorally to do better,but academically right and he
succeeded and thrived wow yeah,that's kind of stuff that I I
can have.
I have stories for days let'sgo for it, and so these are
(15:18):
stories that are in your bookyes, yeah, so my book is real
authentic.
Dr. Armstead (15:23):
It Some people have said it's kind of like a
conviction, because I'm notsaying I'm a perfect educator
and I have it all together.
But I think the way that we'retrained to be educators, we
forget sometimes that it's notall meant to be robotic, that
(15:43):
it's not all meant to be robotic.
So when I speak about certainthings like I talk about dress
codes and different things likethat it's not a traditional type
of opinion about it and it getspeople to think like that is
true or I never thought aboutthat, instead of just washing
over everything instead ofwashing over everything, what
(16:07):
are some examples that you wouldwant to share?
Christina McKelvy (16:10):
you know you mentioned the story of you know
this child.
Are there additional um themesin your book that you want to
highlight?
Yes, um.
Dr. Armstead (16:19):
the main thing and it you will see um or who are,
they will see whomever reads thebook is that my main goal for
education is reconciliation.
There's very much a we versusthem when it comes to education.
We meaning those who areemployees of the school, and
then them, the student, theparents and whomever else.
(16:42):
And so, even when it comes toadministration, I will never
forget my first year teaching.
The principal called me intothe office because at the time
you had to go to theadministrator's office to find
out if you had a contract or not, and I was told that I was not
going to be renewed because shefelt that I didn't fit in
(17:05):
education.
When was this?
Christina McKelvy (17:09):
Like the beginning of your career, Like I
guess that's what I'm asking.
Dr. Armstead (17:12):
My very first year of teaching, oh my goodness.
And so she said I didn't fit ineducation and I needed to go
back to college and look atfinding a different career.
And I remember sitting therelike what?
Like I just spent all this timegetting this degree and you
(17:32):
told me I don't fit in educationand I wanted to quit.
Like I tell everybody, I wantedto quit 18 years ago because I
did not want to try to provemyself.
But I believe the reason whyshe felt that way was because I
was different.
And so that goes back to thattitle, where different is seen
(17:55):
as deficient rather thandifferent should be seen as
something that can shift,something for the positive.
I am not a traditional teacher.
I speak about things Itypically.
I've had lots of people tell meyou say what people are
thinking but are afraid to say.
And so my first year ofteaching, I didn't want to go in
there and be a robot.
(18:16):
I was trying to connect with thestudents and play the music
that they enjoyed, and I guessthat's what it means to not fit
in education.
Christina McKelvy (18:24):
And what grade was that?
Dr. Armstead (18:25):
That was kindergarten through fifth grade
.
Christina McKelvy (18:29):
Okay, okay.
So you were told because youwere, because you were different
, you didn't fit that mold.
Your boss basically said goback to college.
Go back to school for anotherfour years, get a different
career.
And you were like no, you.
You bounced back, you had thatresilience and now you're here
(18:51):
as a dean of students.
You mentioned reconciliationearlier.
I'm curious the link betweenhaving that reconciliation you
know, students havingreconciliation and their
resilience in education or ingeneral like that link.
If you see there's a link inthere Once.
Dr. Armstead (19:07):
So basically, what I mean about reconciliation is,
once people know that you wantthem on your team and you're
genuine about it, they are goingto work harder than you in some
instances and they are alwaysgoing to be willing to step up.
But when they feel like, oh,I'm just additional help, I'm
(19:30):
not really needed, then that'swhere we see what we do now.
I believe personally.
I believe that's why parentalengagement is low.
I believe that's why studentengagement is low.
I believe that's why a lot ofteachers are leaving the field,
because there's no.
That's why a lot of teachersare leaving the field because
there's no sense of we're inthis together.
(19:51):
It is very much.
Even me being an administrator,I get flat because I let staff
know I'm not here and you'rehere up top and I'm at.
You know I'm up top and you'reat the bottom.
We're in the same boat.
We need to do this togetherbecause the ultimate goal is
student success, not mine.
Christina McKelvy (20:09):
Yeah, you're a guide and you know, I think
Western society tends to havethat leader like.
I'm up here, you know, look atme, ivory tower.
You know, follow me, I'm theexpert, whereas a lot of other
cultures have more of like.
I'm going to walk alongside you.
Dr. Armstead (20:24):
I did this.
Christina McKelvy (20:25):
I don't know if it's an ABA model, but
someone that I know that's aBCBA and I use this as well.
You know some of my parentsthat I counsel it's I do, we do,
you do, and so I think a lot ofculture is like we're going to
do this together.
You know, observe me, we'll doit together, and now I will have
(20:46):
you do it on your own, but Iwill be there to guide you and
support you instead of I'm theexpert.
look at me, follow me, don'tquestion me yes, that is huge
and I'm assuming that you youquestioned yeah how did you
guess I?
Don't know, it was just a guess, because I did the same thing
(21:10):
and yeah, anyways go ahead.
Dr. Armstead (21:13):
I mean, and it's not me questioning, as though
like I'm questioning somebody'sauthority.
Christina McKelvy (21:19):
It's me saying why do we keep doing this
?
Dr. Armstead (21:24):
Oh yes, I mean, I served on a school board I think
it was three years ago and thatwas the one reason why I
eventually had to step downafter five months, because there
was almost like so much hatredfor me asking questions to get
to the root of the cause lot,because I want to know why is it
(21:44):
that we do this?
Is it because it's what'scomfortable?
Is it because we fear what mayhappen if we step out of that?
Because if it's not working,why keep doing it?
And that's a major thing ineducation right now.
I don't question why we traineducators the way we do to say,
(22:06):
hey, this whole thing sucks andwe need to start all over.
But, like, why are we trainingteachers to believe that when
they get in the classroom,there's perfect students and all
you have to do is be in controland everything is going to be
good, rather than having them doone semester of student
teaching in an alternativeschool and then the other
semester in a gen ed school sothey can see that you know, some
(22:29):
of these students are going tobe in your classroom.
What are you going to do tocreate that connection of being
human first?
Christina McKelvy (22:37):
That's the key being human first.
Dr. Armstead (22:40):
Yes, but it's scary for some people and I
don't understand why.
Christina McKelvy (22:45):
Hmm, to see the human?
Yes, I'm not sure.
Dr. Armstead (22:49):
Okay, or to be human.
I actually got some negativefeedback because I had a
conversation with a student onetime who asked me why, like, was
I married?
And I explained.
I told him no, I'm divorced,I'm a single parent, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
And the adults felt like, oh,you don't need to be that
(23:09):
personal with students, but myattitude is why not?
Then they know if they're in asingle parent household?
Here's somebody else that, okay, cool, she can.
I know what she's going throughbecause my mom is going through
it.
It's not just me.
Christina McKelvy (23:26):
They see themselves in you or they see
their situation in you.
You have that attunement.
Dr. Armstead (23:31):
Exactly.
Christina McKelvy (23:32):
Yeah, and I'm sure that attunement between
educator and student again helpswith that reconciliation you're
talking about, helps with thatstudent moving forward and being
successful.
It does.
It's huge.
Dr. Armstead (23:45):
I mean, think about your favorite teacher and
why they were your favoriteteacher.
And it's because they werehuman.
They made you feel seen andheard, not because they were
this dictator in the classroom.
Christina McKelvy (24:02):
So that's really true, mr Walsh, that was
his name, and I was teased whenI was younger.
A lot so was I.
Dr. Armstead (24:23):
When I was younger .
Christina McKelvy (24:24):
I was very awkward and it was in third
grade, my third grade teacher,and he sent me to his wife's
classroom for the day to helpthe second graders, you know, to
help them out and it was like Iwas kind of like already
questioning, like why is hedoing that?
I came back and all thestudents were super nice to me.
Christina, that's a reallygreat drawing.
Oh, my goodness, you're a greatwriter, christina.
I love your shirt, and a lot ofit was empty platitudes, but
what I found out was he spoke tothem about why are you so mean
to her?
(24:44):
And it was a specific incidentthat happened because it was
ongoing teasing.
A lot of kids were teased youknow I wasn't the only one, but
it was a specific incident thattriggered him to talk to them
and that stuck with me becausehe you know whether you agree
with the approach or not he sawme and he really wanted to nip
(25:06):
that in the bud.
Now that only lasted for a fewmonths because it was third
grade, right, you know, butthat's that has stuck with me
forever.
And the teachers that did notthe other teachers that stick
with me are the teachers thatdidn't see me as human.
Yes, or?
Didn't hear me, didn't see meand human, yes, or didn't hear
me, didn't see me.
Dr. Armstead (25:27):
And I talk about some of those in my book too.
I also.
I do music, so I have music onSpotify and there's one song
called.
Educational Trauma, and that isa song where I talk about a lot
of things that happened to me.
So the good teachers are theones that we remember, but also
those ones that, like they justcreated I just call it
(25:47):
educational trauma they createdsome part of you that you will
never forget about education,and I think that's why it's so
important for me, when I'mtalking with parents, to share
those things, because then theycan understand that just because
I'm in this position doesn'tmean I had a perfect experience.
(26:10):
So because some parents don'tcome to the school because of
the trauma they had when theywere little.
So I want to break that down bysaying, hey, this is what I've
experienced, this is what I'vegone through.
So you see the human sittinghere, but then you also see this
passionate dean of studentsthat's trying to help your child
(26:34):
from a heart perspective.
Christina McKelvy (26:37):
Let's dig into that a little bit more.
Your experience growing upBecause that, you know, sounds
like that played a huge role inyou being an educator.
You've seen the systemic issuesin the field of education.
Wanting to make a change, youknow is.
Are there any pivotal momentsyou would feel okay sharing with
my listeners that helped propelyou to this work?
Dr. Armstead (26:57):
So there's two very specific instances, and one
of them well, actually three.
It started in third grade.
I don't know why third grade iswhere a lot of students have
trauma.
Christina McKelvy (27:08):
I know Right.
Dr. Armstead (27:09):
But I went to.
I was at a Catholic school atthe time and we were coming back
from lunch and the nun wantedeverybody to go to the bathroom
and at the time I didn't have togo to the bathroom, so I didn't
go.
And then we went back to theclassroom and we were in there
for about an hour or so and Ihad to go to the restroom and I
(27:33):
asked her and she said no.
So I asked her a couple moretimes and she was like no, you
should have went when I told youto go.
And I ended up using thebathroom on myself and the whole
class laughing at me and thenher calling my parents and lying
and telling my parents I had anaccident because I had refused
to go to the bathroom and it wasreally just.
(27:56):
I didn't have to go when youtold me to go.
But now that I have to go, nowyou're holding me hostage.
And the reason why that?
That's why I'm not such acontrolling teacher and I don't
get triggered when studentsdon't necessarily want to do
something that I'm asking themto do, because sometimes it's
(28:17):
not like a rebellion thing,sometimes it's just they don't
want to do it.
At the time.
They don't trust me, trust me.
The second instance was math.
I don't know why, when I was achild, me and math, just we did
not get along.
And so it was seventh grade,math.
I was getting bullied in theband class before that class and
(28:46):
so he I remember he wasteaching some kind of I don't
even remember on the board and Ijust it was not clicking.
And so I raised my hand to askif he could explain it one more
time and his exact words werewell, maybe if you weren't
talking you would understand it.
And I just started crying and Iremember it was like a pool of
tears on my desk Again, studentslaughing at me.
He called the principal down,said I was being disruptive to
(29:08):
the class, um called my parentsand told them that I wasn't
paying attention and all thatkind of stuff, and from seventh
grade on I struggled in mathcompletely.
Last instance was high school.
I was heavily, severely bulliedin high school and in fact in
seventh grade I actually hadattempted suicide because of
(29:32):
bullying.
So when I got to high school Iwas just completely at my wits
end and I woke up one morningand I said I'm not going to talk
unless somebody talks to me.
I started school at 7.10 am andschool ended at 2.10 pm.
I did not talk that entire dayso no students spoke to me.
(29:56):
The teacher didn't call on me,no one said hey.
When I was in the hallway, noone acknowledged me.
So I literally sat silent for awhole entire eight hours.
And that pushed me further intoeducation to say, even if this
child does not like me forpersonal reasons, I'm going to
(30:19):
acknowledge them and say hey orgood morning, or how are you?
Because I don't know if thatchild is feeling the same way
that I am, or internalizing thismindset of nobody's talking to
me so I don't need to be here.
So those are very three.
I've gone through a lot butthose are three significant
(30:39):
situations that really, evensome days when I'm like you know
what, maybe I need to get outof education because this is too
tough right now, even some dayswhen I'm like you know what,
maybe I need to get out ofeducation because this is too
tough right now, those are thethings that keep me in it and
push me to have that motivation.
Like it may not be seen rightnow, but later on in life you're
going to see the fruit of yourlabor.
Because, I didn't go through allthat stuff just to suffer.
(31:01):
I believe I went through thatso I could be a different
teacher, even though differentis seen as deficient in
education.
Christina McKelvy (31:09):
Yeah, different is seen as deficient
when it really shouldn't beright.
Yeah, and those experiencesthat you mentioned.
It's interesting.
It's third and seventh grade.
Both are very critical ages.
You know where kids arechanging, you know.
Third, grade eight, nine, you're, and then you're, you know,
(31:29):
years old, seventh grade, Ithink.
It's like 12, 13, high school,you know.
So those are all verysignificant ages and one thing
that was one thing that'sinteresting is in your high
school experience, like you knowthe teacher you mentioned, like
teacher saying hi, even if youdon't like the teacher still, or
(31:49):
if you know the student doesn'tlike you still saying hi, you
know, seeing the human, youmight be the only safe adult
that they have yes, yes, and infact this year.
Dr. Armstead (32:01):
Um, it's funny because usually students say
they're scared of me when theysee me because they say I'm very
stern and serious face, andthen when they see I'm a big kid
, they're like, oh no, she justlooks mean.
But I had a student this year.
He reminded me of myself somuch in high school.
Um, it was a time where I thinkit was a situation where him and
(32:25):
his girlfriend had broke upyeah and all of a sudden he was
just going off campus and I hadbuilt a connection with his mom
and I had texted her like yourson is not on campus, did you
know about it?
She's like no, nobody contactedme.
So she took off work, wentlooking, got him on the phone
(32:46):
and this child was about to walkinto oncoming traffic on I-17
oh my goodness.
And she pulled up to the school,handed me the phone and said I
need you to talk to my son, Ijust need you to talk to, oh, my
lungs.
And I'm like, don't do me.
You are about to do me.
I cannot let you do that.
Christina McKelvy (33:21):
If no one else has said it.
Dr. Armstead (33:24):
I love you, Listen to me.
And so eventually I was able togo and with his mom and get him
and and just talk to him.
And ever since then, just talkto him.
And ever since then there'ssometimes I don't even need to
say a word to him.
He, he knows, I'm just makingsure that you're good.
(33:47):
And I think those thosesituations, and that one
specifically, had I not gonethrough what I went through,
where I felt rejected and I felt, you know what, let me just pop
these aspirin pills I know I'msuper allergic to and then kill
myself, if I hadn't gone throughthat, I would not have been
able to connect with this child.
And so that passion sometimesor that leniency with some
(34:07):
students people see it as mebeing weak or a pushover, but
they don't understand.
It's because I can feel whatthat child is going through,
because I've been there and Idon't want them to do me, I
don't want them to make mymistake.
Christina McKelvy (34:25):
Don't do me, and that was that
self-disclosure.
Dr. Armstead (34:28):
You were telling the child don't do me.
Christina McKelvy (34:31):
You were being human and I'm sure a lot
of teachers would never sharethat much info at the time.
Dr. Armstead (34:37):
No, definitely not .
Yeah, I don't know why it'sscary, though I feel like I just
want I want students tounderstand that where you are
now is not where you're alwaysgoing to be, and to embrace the
fact that you see thingsdifferent, because for many
years of my life, even being aneducator, I tried to do what
everybody else was doing,because that's how I thought I
(35:00):
was going to find success, butactually all it did was suppress
who I was really meant to be,to save these students from
whatever situations they mightget into and it's interesting
(35:27):
because in the field of mentalhealth it's similar.
Christina McKelvy (35:30):
You know, there's the whole blank slate.
You know, don't disclose as thetherapist, again because of that
perception of authority rightand and sometimes that's
appropriate, but other times,you know, when I have disclosed
the clients and said me too, Iunderstand, I see you, I hear
(35:51):
you because I was there.
Our alignment strengthens andI'm still, you know, still
walking alongside them, but itshifts and they have that hope.
Yes, and you know so, I, Icould totally see how in
education it would be similarand that hope, yeah just like
(36:11):
you mentioned, hope it's, it'sit.
Dr. Armstead (36:14):
To me that's the main thing missing in education.
Um if you think about it, yeahtest scores, college
expectations, you know all thethings that are put on children,
that it it suppresses that hopethat you know you can do
something.
Because, even though we arefour years out of the lockdowns,
(36:35):
we have to think about the factthat these young people went
from being social and with theirfriends to silence only through
a laptop.
And then, even when they cameback to school, it was, oh, you
can't sit next to each other,you can't do this, you can't do
that.
And then after that it was, hey, it's normal.
Hey, it's normal.
(36:59):
That doesn't help a childmentally to even understand.
Am I going to actually be ableto function once I'm not in
school, or am I okay because Idon't know what I want to do
after high school?
There's a lot of suppression ofthe concept of giving them hope
, even though there's all thisnegative stuff that they're
still processing through.
Christina McKelvy (37:15):
And would you say that this generation has
less hope for the future thanour generation when we were
growing?
Dr. Armstead (37:23):
up.
I would say so.
My son is currently 16.
And when I hear him talk about,when he says, my generation,
sometimes it actually breaks myheart because it does sound like
they don't have hope, becausethey're looking at the previous
generation, which is theirparents, and how we're
(37:46):
processing and strugglingthrough this.
So they're like, okay, well, ifthey're struggling, what the
heck am I going to do?
But my son also asked thequestion.
He said why is it that thisgeneration has to go through all
of this negative stuff in theworld?
And I said it's because yourgeneration is stronger than mine
.
That's why you were born atthis specific time, because you
(38:09):
guys are going to get older andthis is going to be the
foundation to make you stronger,more self-aware adults.
My generation didn't have to gothrough all that.
I think the craziest thing forme growing up was 9-11 and Y2K
when everybody thought the worldwas going to shut down.
Christina McKelvy (38:27):
Yeah, in 2008 , the economic crisis.
Dr. Armstead (38:29):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christina McKelvy (38:30):
I think, but that didn't really affect me as
much.
But yeah, 9-11, I was asophomore junior.
I was a junior in high schoolme as much.
Dr. Armstead (38:36):
But yeah, 9-11, I was a sophomore junior.
I was a junior in high school,I had just graduated and of
course I was not payingattention to the news.
But my brother told me to turnon the TV and it just,
completely like I explained tomy son, I'm, like you imagine,
going from planes flying andhearing all this noise to now
just silence.
And now you go to the airport.
You got to take your shoes offand your family.
(38:56):
And now you go to the airport.
You got to take your shoes offand your family can't come with
you to the gate, like that wassignificant, but it wasn't a
social silence like they had togo through.
I can never imagine that.
Christina McKelvy (39:08):
Oh, yes, and speaking of today's youth and
the social aspects, yes, thepandemic, that social silence
and I love that term, that issuch an accurate term but you
know, social media plays a hugerole in our youth today.
You know, the young Gen Z andAlpha, I don't know, I don't
(39:35):
remember either.
Alpha I don't know, I don'tremember either.
You know, but yeah, and so I'msure that social media is
obviously has its influence intheir perception of hope in
their future yes, and I thething about that too.
Dr. Armstead (39:52):
Again, me being different and me questioning um.
A lot of teachers want to fightsocial media and the
educational setting, but I Ifind that it's easier if we use
it to our benefit.
So there's been times wherestudents have have asked
questions about certain conceptsor whatever.
Christina McKelvy (40:14):
And.
Dr. Armstead (40:14):
I show them how they can go on TikTok TikTok
especially and get those answersquickly and then have them
teach a classmate you learned it, Now you teach, and if you
can't teach it, that means youhaven't learned it.
Or just pulling up videos thatsomebody may have on there and
(40:37):
having them watch it at thebeginning of class and then
having them have a conversationabout it and just to check in,
and what I find is that if youdon't fight those things, then
again you're seen as human andyour students are going to
respect you.
I play Fortnite because of mystudents.
I play Fortnite because of mystudents I talk about, I stream
(41:10):
my video games online because ofmy students, because they were
in class talking about it allthe time.
So I'm going to waste moreenergy trying to fight and get
them to be quiet than to justsay, oh yeah, let's get back to
what we need to handle.
But social media is alsonegative.
If they are, they don't haveany boundaries with it, and so I
think that's why we have tostop blaming parents and start,
as a system, recognizing that ifwe're irritated with it in our
(41:33):
classroom, let's have thathonest discussion about how it
can be harmful, instead of justremaining quiet and expecting
parents to handle it or thinkingthat a suspension or detention
is going to stop them from usingit.
Christina McKelvy (41:48):
And it doesn't.
Dr. Armstead (41:49):
No, absolutely not .
Christina McKelvy (41:52):
They find a way, they find a way, and so
what are some of the thingsyou're doing besides, you know,
being an administrator?
What are some additional thingsthat you're doing within the
Arizona area or just in generalyou know, to make change?
You know I have some thingslisted, like the homeless
initiative.
Dr. Armstead (42:17):
Yes.
So I started that homelessnessinitiative when I went out I
think it was last summer and Iwas working with another friend
of mine who has a non-profit andpassing out food, and I saw
that there were a lot ofteenagers.
Um, and it broke me because Ijust I cannot imagine and I'm so
thankful that my parents didnot kick me out when I was 18.
(42:39):
But from that I was.
Every time the weather changesor something goes on, it just I
just those are the firstindividuals I think about.
Like something as simple inArizona that we don't think
about is sunglasses.
Imagine experiencinghomelessness and you're walking
out on the streets in 115 degreeweather and you don't even have
(43:00):
sunglasses to protect your eyesor an umbrella.
So I started that initiativeand I want to keep it rolling,
just to continuously be able tohelp those individuals out,
because not everyone who isexperiencing homelessness is an
addict or put themselves in thatsituation.
If it wasn't for my parents, Iprobably would be on the streets
(43:22):
.
But I also go and volunteer in adetention center here in
Phoenix.
I work with another nonprofitand we go in and try to help
those young people who arecurrently incarcerated to think
about a business or a careergoal that they can work to,
(43:43):
create a vision for and developit, so that when they do get
released they do not end up backin there.
Even working with those youngpeople, it's more of again that
(44:11):
being human and showing themthat they're seen, rather than
this hey, I'm not in coach, soto speak, and tell them like,
just don't get stuck on what'shappening right now, because if
you're meant to do somethingspecial in this world, it is
going to be more difficult foryou than the average person,
(44:32):
because if it's easy to createchange, everyone will be able to
create positive change.
So the difficulties that we gothrough, they're not just for us
to go through and suffer.
They're supposed to be so thatwe can use that, in whatever
realm we end up in, to make achange and create that legacy.
Christina McKelvy (44:52):
And, like you mentioned at the beginning of
the episode, all of the changemakers were perceived as
different.
Dr. Armstead (44:58):
Yes.
Christina McKelvy (45:00):
Yeah, and so using that difference to your
advantage and seeing thosechildren that may be different
and help grow, that encourage itstrengthen it and just
acknowledge them.
Dr. Armstead (45:13):
I think a lot of students go unacknowledged yeah,
and that's where they go toschool and they're just like,
well, I don't care.
Or they're out on the streetsdoing things to hurt themselves
because they don't feel likeanybody sees them foster that
(45:37):
hope and being just seeing thehuman humanity and I think
that's something that we'relosing and we need to bring back
, you know, into education, intomental health, into healthcare,
politics, everything,everything, everything, life,
exactly.
Christina McKelvy (45:48):
Well, Dr Armstead, I would like to ask
you this question.
I ask everybody, since we are,excuse me, wrapping up what
gives you hope?
What brings you hope?
Dr. Armstead (46:02):
Wow, that's a.
So there's a few things thatgive me hope.
Um, number one I am a believer.
Um, so God is my ultimate hope.
Um, I have been through some,through some very dark days and,
in fact, in 2020, I almostpassed, and so coming through
(46:23):
that and knowing that I survived, that is what gives me the hope
to focus on the fact that it isgoing to get better and it is
going to be sunshine on theother side of the clouds.
The other thing that gives mehope is my son.
He has seen me in my worst.
(46:43):
He seen me in the midst ofcustody battle, getting laid off
from a job, all those thingsand he still turns around and
tells me I'm learning from youand I'm learning from your
mistakes too, so that I can goand do better.
And that just gives me hopebecause it reminds me that, even
(47:05):
when we don't get it right,there's somebody that's going to
use it to get it right.
So those are the two biggestthings and, of course, my
parents.
I'm the baby of the family, soI'm kind of spoiled, but my
parents have a unique storythemselves and the stuff that
they went through just to be thesuccessful individuals they are
now is still.
(47:26):
That brings me hope because Idon't get stuck on in this
moment.
I have to keep recognizing thatas long as I'm moving, it's
better than me sitting still.
Christina McKelvy (47:41):
As long as I'm moving, it's better than me
sitting still.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on my podcast and
everything you're doing tochange education, to see the
human in your students.
You can find all.
I'll put all your informationin the show notes, but you know
(48:03):
why don't you share?
Where can people find you?
Dr. Armstead (48:06):
Well, I am everywhere.
Christina McKelvy (48:08):
I saw that.
That's why I was like I'll justlet you do it.
Dr. Armstead (48:12):
So because I was on a school board, I can't hide
anymore.
Christina McKelvy (48:16):
I'm on.
Dr. Armstead (48:17):
Instagram at Dr Armstead.
I'm on TikTok at Dr Armstead-AZ.
I am on YouTube, Dr Armstead-AZ, and those are pretty much the
major ways to find me and foranybody listening, just know
that you may support me on someof the things that I say
(48:39):
sometimes, but then other timesyou'll be like I don't know what
she's talking about.
She's crazy.
Christina McKelvy (48:45):
It's not just life, though.
Dr. Armstead (48:47):
You know yes.
Christina McKelvy (48:48):
Um, but we'll thank you so much for you know,
like I said, coming on here andI will post all that
information in my show notes,and, and I will post all that
information in my show notes,and, yeah, let's you know.
I hope that everyone has ahopeful and healing rest of
their day.
No-transcript.
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