January 23, 2024 • 44 mins
This interview with Kiki Walter is both heart retching and uplifting, one that explores the intimate corridors of the personal narrative and its therapeutic impact. Kiki, the editor behind Medium publications such as The Memoirist, Age of Empathy, and Black Bear, shared her experience with her mental health journey, revealing how her dance with depression became one of the cornerstones of her writing.
During this episode we explore the profound healing that comes from sharing and connecting through stories. The journey we discuss in this session is one of transformation – how seeking help at critical junctures can be a beacon of hope, and how community support becomes an integral part of personal growth. Kiki offers insight into bioenergetic therapy and somatic practices, showcasing the liberation these methods can bring.
Finally, we grapple with the complexities of privacy versus openness in personal essays and memoirs. Kiki's anecdotes paint a vivid picture of the delicate decision-making process behind anonymity, and the potential influences these stories can wield on personal relationships. This episode is a tribute to the silent strength that grows within us – a towering sequoia of hope – as we all continue to paint the canvas of our lives with each stroke of resilience and expression.
Find some of her publications here:
Age of Empathy
Black Bear
The Memoirist
Information on where you can find us.
Follow us on Instagram: @hopeologypodcast and the host @writerchristinamckelvy
To support the show, go to: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/hopeologypodcast
Disclaimer: The views reflected by any of the guests may not reflect the views of the podcast host. Some topics may be difficult for some viewers, so proceed at your own risk. This podcast does not replace psychotherapy or advice and is for entertainment purposes only.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Christina McKelvy (00:00):
Welcome to Hopology.
Stories of Hope, healing andResilience.
I'm your host, christinaMcKelvie.
Today we're going to bespeaking with Kiki Walter.
Hello Kiki, how are you?
Kiki Walter (00:09):
I am doing great, thank you.
Christina McKelvy (00:11):
I'm glad you're doing well.
It's Monday.
How was your weekend?
Kiki Walter (00:17):
I've been.
I've had a very busy weekend.
I'm in the middle of a move.
Oh gosh.
Yeah, this weekend it was a lotof going back and forth.
I'm not moving very far away,so it was a lot of packing, a
lot of moving boxes.
It's an exciting time.
Christina McKelvy (00:33):
You know, moving at least for me can be
exciting because it's new and Ilike to organize and go through
things, but the whole packingand unpacking is just always so
daunting, I don't know if that'sthe same for you.
It is very daunting.
Kiki Walter (00:50):
Especially I am kind of a person who is encased
in chaos.
I'm just have a chaotic mind,I'm not super organized, so yeah
it's a lot, but you know I'mhaving fun with it.
Christina McKelvy (01:07):
Encasing chaos.
That sounds like a movie name.
It does.
Kiki Walter (01:12):
I don't really even know if that makes sense, but
it's what popped out of my head.
Christina McKelvy (01:17):
No, it does, it does.
Well you know, kiki, I asked youto come on the podcast because
I've been following a lot ofyour publications on Medium,
black Bear, age of Empathy, theMemorist and I find those
publications really amazing,especially Black Bear.
You know, I have read a few ofthose where it's like stories of
(01:38):
mental health and sobriety andrecovery, and so I just wanted
to chat with you a little bittoday on how you came to create
those different publications andyour own story regarding it.
Tell me a little bit aboutthose publications and, yeah,
how you came to create it.
Kiki Walter (01:54):
Sure, so I have three big publications and then
some smaller ones, but I'll justaddress the big ones right now.
Our number one publication isthe Memorist, and I started that
publication a week after Ijoined Medium.
I was looking for a publicationthat was for memoirists.
(02:15):
That's my genre of choice inwriting that in personal essays
and I couldn't find anythingthat I any publications that I
wanted to publish on, so I justcreated my own and the rest
followed.
Age of Empathy, I acquired fromanother writer, and Black Bear.
(02:39):
I started right around the timethat I began intensive
outpatient treatment fordepression.
And Black Bear.
And also I have experience.
I have a background in mentalhealth writing.
I was a content director forseveral years.
So I'm I know the genre welland I'm comfortable writing
(03:04):
about it.
I'm comfortable editing storiesabout it and I was really
looking for personal stories forall three of my publications.
I really like that personaltouch.
So almost you know, even withthe essays, you know more.
They almost feel like memoirs,because I like when people talk
(03:25):
about themselves.
People relate to people.
Christina McKelvy (03:29):
Yeah it.
It almost helps with theempathetic, empathetic building,
facing compassion and empathywhen you're hearing someone's
story because you're like, oh, Irelate.
Kiki Walter (03:40):
I've been there, yes, yes, and I think that's
especially true for Black Bear.
Many of the comments are insupport, and you know saying me
too.
You know I've been through thisas well so that publication in
particular, people have aconnection there, you know, I
(04:00):
think they really connect to theother writers and you know it's
become a community of its own,much like the memoirist is a
community.
So, then, really fun seeing itgrow and building it.
Christina McKelvy (04:15):
And you said it started a few months ago or
earlier this year.
Kiki Walter (04:20):
I started it, I believe, in December, maybe of
last year.
It was some time around therejust kind of basing off my own
journey when when I would havestarted it, maybe November.
Yeah, seems like I start mypubs in November, so we'll go
with that.
Christina McKelvy (04:40):
Okay, that's the thing.
I tell me a little bit moreabout that your journey, where
you you mentioned you're in IOPyourself when you started Black
Bear and how that might havemaybe helped your own personal
journey through IOP, which forour listeners means intensive
outpatient therapy, or how, viceversa, how maybe that informed
(05:04):
your writing?
Kiki Walter (05:05):
Well, writing, as you know, is very therapeutic.
Yes, so when I startedIntensive Outpatient it was I
did take a writing therapy classand, you know, just writing
really helped me find somebalance that I needed.
(05:28):
And starting the publication,starting Black Bear, I felt like
I was giving back to otherpeople, not just ensuring my
story.
At that time I felt very freeto write about it.
I go back and forth with howmuch I want to say and publish
about my own personal journey,but it was just important to me.
(05:52):
You know, I was like this makessense for me at this time to
start this and I do feel likewriting about my experience in
IOP, writing about my experiencewith depression over the years,
was very cathartic and helpedme immensely, and I think that
(06:13):
it's true for other people whowrite on Black Bear.
I hear that a lot.
Christina McKelvy (06:21):
And in what ways does it help you?
You know, I know for myself.
I read back some of my oldjournals who are like whoa.
Kiki Walter (06:30):
Yes, I've done that .
Christina McKelvy (06:32):
Yeah.
So I'm curious how maybe evenmost recently or over the years
you know, writing your ownmemoirs, how that helped your
personal mental journey.
Kiki Walter (06:41):
Oh, that's a good question, because I actually
started out as an actress andone of the things I always said
was I connected to actingbecause it was a way to get my
emotions out.
I tend to bottle things up andI ended my acting career when I
(07:01):
had my son.
I was 31 years old at the timeand I've always been a writer,
but I started focusing more onwriting as a hobby and for me it
was just a way of getting thoseemotions out again.
It was the same thing pouringmy feelings out on paper
(07:22):
experiences through memoir or anessay or you know a piece about
mental health.
It just gets that angst out.
It gets, you know, the ball ofyou know whatever in your
stomach.
That's just sitting there.
I can pour it out on the paper.
Well, you know the proverbialpaper.
(07:44):
You know I just sit and let myfingers fly on my computer.
And it's like it all comes out,and sometimes that's good, and
sometimes, as I've grown as awriter like, I'll have
Christopher Robbin edit my worka lot of the time, because I'm
not.
I basically write, pour it outand that's it I'm not a big
(08:07):
drafter I'm not, you know sosometimes he's like okay, you
got to rain it in here, rain itin there.
But I just pour it all out.
I don't really think too muchwhen I'm writing.
I don't really think too muchwhen I'm writing.
Christina McKelvy (08:22):
Sounds very similar to the morning pages.
Kiki Walter (08:25):
Yes, it is.
That's in fact, when I stoppedacting and got into writing.
That was one of the firstthings I bought was Julia
Cameron's book.
What's it called?
The oh my goodness, I was just.
I know it's like on the tip ofmy tongue.
Christina McKelvy (08:43):
I was just the artist way.
I was like I was just readingthe artist way.
Kiki Walter (08:46):
Yes, I bought the artists way and I would go on
and off with journaling, but Iloved the concept of morning
papers, whether it was in themorning or not.
That is definitely an approachof mine just letting my fingers
go, letting my mind go andseeing what I get, and then then
(09:07):
I can refine it a little bit.
I'm not really a drafter toomuch, but of course I go through
my work and see if I needanything to add, remove words
that I've used 15 times in oneparagraph that kind of thing.
I'm a much better editor onother people's work.
(09:28):
I'm not so great with myself.
Christina McKelvy (09:32):
I relate to that.
I think you're like readinglike oh my goodness, how did I
write this?
Yeah, so it sounds like there'salmost like a sense of freedom
for yourself.
When you were, you know, whenyou write and you mentioned
letting your emotions outsimilar to acting, and it's
almost like this I'm wonderingif there's like a sense of
safety because, like, at leastwith acting, I'm not me, I'm
(09:56):
acting like someone else, so Ican do this.
Kiki Walter (10:02):
Right, definitely a sense of safety and freedom.
I had, like my ex-husband waskind of controlling.
So I've had like an issue ofgetting into these controlling
relationships in the past and itwas something that was my own,
you know, it was my writing, wasmy own, it belonged to me,
(10:25):
nobody could control it.
But that actually ended up notso true either, because in some
of these past relationships.
I had one long term relationshipwhere he would not like
something I wrote, complainabout it.
I started feeling very censoredin my writing and I'm I don't
(10:48):
usually censor myself.
I don't like that.
So that was one reason Istopped writing for a while was
that particular relationship andin my current relationship,
he's very supportive of mywriting, so that's been really
great.
So sometimes I mean, it reallydepends on the person and your
personality.
But yeah, I get stuck in myhead a lot.
(11:09):
So it is very freeing to writeand get those words out, get
those thoughts out, yeah,without feeling like I'm being
hovered over.
Christina McKelvy (11:22):
Freedom and safety go hand in hand.
For sure, you know, with myclients, I will tell them I was
signed journaling and I willtell them you know that you can
write in your journal and thenrip up the papers, read the
paper if you need to, or writeover it or don't look at it at
(11:44):
all, but you're getting it out.
There's just something aboutwhether that's through writing
or acting or songwriting, Likeyou said getting those emotions
out so they're not bottled up.
Kiki Walter (11:56):
That's funny.
I have a friend who gave mesome really great advice when I
got back into journaling thisyear, which again was about the
time I was in IOP I am veryspecific with the date.
Everything is uniform and hesaid don't do that.
This is your notebook, this isyour book, your journal.
(12:20):
Doodle in it, do whatever comesto you and what you feel.
You don't have to keep it neat,you don't have to keep it super
organized.
Just get your feelings out inwhatever way that might manifest
, whether it's writing ordrawing or scribbling really
hard across the page.
Whatever you have to do, itbelongs to you.
(12:42):
It's your book.
You're not doing it for anyoneelse, you're doing it for
yourself.
So I really loved that advice.
So now I'm using colors and itdoes look like a mess, but it's
mine.
Christina McKelvy (12:56):
Exactly, it's your mess.
Yeah, I love that it's my mess.
Kiki Walter (13:05):
Yes, I think that's a good attitude to have my life
is my mess.
Christina McKelvy (13:11):
And again it's having that space and
freedom, that sense of safety tobe able to be a missed in a
mess and having those emotionsout.
And it sounds like your oldrelationship didn't allow for
that.
But now you have that freedomand so it definitely makes sense
that you came back to writingand started these publications.
Kiki Walter (13:29):
I needed an outlet of some kind.
I'm a very creative person.
So I need some kind of creativeoutlet, whether it's music or
writing, or I went through ajewelry making phase as long as
it's something that I can use.
Christina McKelvy (13:51):
What is it about creativity that you feel
plays a really big part inhealing and recovery?
Kiki Walter (13:58):
and you know.
I think again, it's safety.
It's the safety and freedom Ithink in recovery, whether
you're you know you've sufferedgreat trauma or your depression,
or you're on a sobriety journey, I think that creativity is a
great tool because it helps youthink about your emotions, it
(14:22):
helps you focus your emotions,it just helps with healing
because of the safety aspect, Ibelieve.
And maybe people are creativeand they don't feel they have
mental health issues or you knowwhatever, but I think it can
help everybody in some way.
Being creative, whatever thatmight look like, you know you
(14:44):
can sit and play a guitarmindlessly or make your jewelry
or paint, you know, paint apicture.
And again, I have a friend who'sgotten really into painting and
you know it's a great outletother than writing, besides
writing.
So it's just that whole freeingyour mind and allowing your the
(15:07):
inside of your soul to the youknow depth of your stomach.
Just get it out.
And I think getting it out,learning how to get it out, is
again very therapeutic.
And what you're aiming for tonot be afraid anymore of those
feelings, having that hope,having that drive to move
(15:30):
forward.
Christina McKelvy (15:33):
Yeah, the hope, that drive, not being
afraid and I love what you justsaid allow the inside of your
soul, like allowing the depthsand just having it, like get it
out, like getting out thosefeelings and emotions.
Holding them in just doesn'treally help anybody.
Kiki Walter (15:57):
No holding them in, I found caused physical issues
for me in the past couple ofyears until I went to, until I
went to IOP, I really wassuffering with a lot of physical
stuff going on neurologicalissues and and since IOP I've
had a very freeing experiencewith my body.
(16:20):
So it's I'm not in the pain thatI was anymore and I'm pretty
self aware and I've, you know,been able to manage my
depression.
A lot of things came togetherat once when I went into IOP but
, like I said, I am, I was inthe mental health industry, so I
(16:40):
knew the importance of gettinghelp if you needed help, if you
wanted help, and the timing wasperfect for me and I wanted to
get help getting my headstraight and not just pressure
myself into doing it.
I wanted that safe place and itwas a safe place and I would
(17:02):
highly recommend it to anybodywho's going through an issue.
I mean you don't have to go toin person treatment necessarily.
You could.
You know the IOP program wasall online and I'm I still go to
an alumni group and it was justso great, so great.
(17:28):
I mean it was the best thing Icould have done for myself.
Yeah.
That's when you started BlackBear and that's when I started
Black Bear, and because mentalhealth was such a big part of my
life at that point and wantingto heal and wanting to get to a
better place again that all Iwas thinking about at that time
(17:51):
was mental health.
So yes it was, the timing wasperfect to create Black Bear.
Christina McKelvy (17:59):
Yeah, and I'm curious about you mentioned it
was the perfect time for you togo to IOP.
If you don't mind sharing whatwas the catalyst, or that aha
moment where, like I need, Ineed a little bit more help than
I could offer myself.
Kiki Walter (18:12):
Yeah, I really can't talk about that.
I'll just say that I was in aplace where everything in my
life was just overwhelming and Ijust knew and you know, I knew
in my gut that I could probablyget through it eventually.
But it would be best if I gotsome help.
(18:34):
And the physical issues reallydrove that as well, because I
wasn't sure.
I wasn't sure if I had somekind of serious thing going on
or if it was related to mymental health.
So the physical issues that Iwas suffering from I was having
trouble walking, I had severepain in neuropathy, I had severe
(18:57):
pain in my neck and headaches,I mean the whole thing.
It just and it really madecognitively I had issues going
on.
So, yeah, it was the right time.
And at the same time I decidedto take a sobriety journey.
It was just, I wanted to behealthy, I just wanted to be
(19:19):
healthier.
So that's been about a year forme as well and it's been great.
You know, even drinking a glassof wine or two a week, you know
, is not, was not good for mydepression.
So I decided to, you know, takemy entire life into my hands
(19:41):
and do something about it, dosomething to feel better all the
way around.
Christina McKelvy (19:46):
Well, congratulations.
You said it's been almost ayear, so congratulations for
that.
And you said you wanted to feelbetter and that's like the.
I think that's like the biggestthing right there, right,
wanting to feel better wheneverthat means for you or others.
Yes, yeah, yeah, and it'sinteresting.
(20:06):
You mentioned the physicalsymptoms and you know we won't
go fully into it, but when youhold your emotions in, like I
always like tell you knowclients, like sometimes we're
tense, you know our shouldersare tense and our muscles get
tense and it's because I thinkwe're well, we're tense, you
know we're holding in thoseemotions.
And so when we are feeling freeto be able to express those
feelings in a safe way, a lot ofmy clients will say that they
(20:29):
feel relaxed.
Yeah, we're not just my clients, people myself, I've done that
too, like you.
Just there's a sense of freedom, like you mentioned, and
feeling relaxed and just at ease.
Kiki Walter (20:39):
Well, when I finished IOP, I started going to
and this is going to sound kindof woo woo, but I started
seeing a bio energeticpractitioner.
What's?
Christina McKelvy (20:50):
that.
Kiki Walter (20:51):
So how do you describe it?
Well, we did what's calledtapping.
Yes, so we did tapping.
It's a lot of like mind andbody focus.
So it was kind of like theperfect thing with me, since I
was going through those physicalissues, really using the mind
(21:12):
and the tapping and the you knowtype of.
She also did talk therapy withme, but Okay, so it just was
bringing it all together andlearning how to let go of that
stress and anxiety anddepression that I was holding in
my body, and it was better thanany other therapy I had.
(21:36):
I was trying to see it and oneon one, a psychiatrist,
psychologist at the same time,and he just didn't connect with
me in the same way.
So this bio energeticpractitioner, she's just great,
she's wonderful and she actuallyruns our alumni group as well
and I have a great connectionwith her, which made me feel
(21:58):
safe and free to really exploremyself deeper.
Yeah.
Christina McKelvy (22:08):
Sounds very somatic.
Yeah, I'm not like experiencing.
Kiki Walter (22:11):
Yes, Very much so, and you know, I think many of my
issues were somatic.
So yeah, it's great.
Christina McKelvy (22:25):
Well, that's really that's.
I love hearing your journey.
Like you're, like I have to,I'm having this physical pain, I
have you know these thingsgoing on.
So I need to go to IOP, Ienroll in IOP, I need to start
this publication.
You know and mention that, likeother people are telling you
(22:45):
how inspiring and helpful BlackBear and the memoirs and these
publications are, you know soit's, you're helping others by
helping yourself and, like yes,yes, and it feels great.
Kiki Walter (22:58):
I love, I love that .
Christina McKelvy (23:01):
How has the sense of community been through
Black Bear medium?
You know just or just ingeneral writing.
You know the writing community.
Kiki Walter (23:09):
It's been amazing.
I have, you know my circle offriends on medium and Twitter
and Instagram and you know so in.
It's interesting how eachplatform we relate to each other
differently.
Like comments on medium aredifferent from you know, when
you're getting into a Twittercircle and just in the goofier
(23:32):
and then Instagram, you kind ofsee glimpses of another person's
life.
So it's just really interestingto me how they all work
together and how they'redifferent and and the community
we've built, you know, is justyou're seeing different little
snippets of each person, and wehave a Slack channel for our
(23:53):
editors and we've also opened itup to you know, inviting
certain people if they'd like tobe part of it, and that's been
really great too.
I mean, we're a big family onthere and and that's the thing
about substack that I, you know,I tried substack as well and I
really missed the community feel.
(24:13):
Well, I didn't miss it becauseI was still on medium, but you
noticed it didn't have it.
Yeah, it wasn't the same and thecommunity is supporting one
another is just incredible whenyou find the right people,
especially when you're writingessays and more personal work.
Christina McKelvy (24:33):
Yeah, yeah, I was just going to say that
community really can help withgrowth and healing.
You know that connection, youknow that's just really
something that's been a themethat I've been finding and so it
sounds like even within mediumand the publications you've made
and just writing, you've beenable to find that sense of
community and I'm curious howthat's been beneficial for you
(24:53):
personally.
Kiki Walter (24:55):
Well, like many writers, I'm very much an
introvert and I don't reallyhave a big group of friends
where I live, which is okaybecause I am an introvert.
So, like I have my one reallyclose girlfriend and then some
friendships through my boyfriend, but for the most part I stay
(25:20):
at home.
I'm a homebody.
So the community through mediumhas really given me a sense of
friendship and people I can talkto in a couple of instances
that I can confide in.
It's just brought these coolfriendships and you know it
(25:41):
sounds kind of geeky, you knowall my friends are all online,
but in a way it's not at allyeah.
In a way it's true, and you knowjust supporting each other when
you write something, orsupporting each other, you know,
when you're going through alife change.
It's just been great havingthat group.
Christina McKelvy (26:02):
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm.
All your friends are in yourpocket.
Kiki Walter (26:05):
Yeah, that's exactly right, and I wasn't.
They knew what I was goingthrough when I went to IOP.
But I didn't really talk openlyabout it too much.
You know, I wrote about it acouple of times, but I can also
be a very private person.
Christina McKelvy (26:22):
Yeah.
Kiki Walter (26:23):
So I'm selective with what I put out there on the
internet Pretty wise, eventhough I don't censor what I'm
writing.
Yeah, there are certain topicsI won't I won't write about.
Like, I don't write about mychildren, and that's just a
personal choice I made, actuallystemming from, you know, going
(26:44):
to custody court a number oftimes.
So, yeah, I just I don't reallytalk about them.
If I do, it's in a very generalmanner, yeah, and it's and
writing about other people islike such a big topic.
When you're an essayist or amemoirist, you know, what can
(27:04):
you, how far can you go, whatcan you say?
It really depends on yourrelationships and you.
You know it is a very personalchoice.
I often use real names, firstnames.
I don't use full names, mm, hmm, sometimes I will, you know,
(27:25):
give them fake names if it's asomething I really don't want
them to worry about being online.
But yeah, it's interesting beinga writer of personal stories in
that way because you'rebringing them into your stories
as well.
But you need to keep it aboutyourself and I shouldn't be
about others, because you're notin their heads.
(27:47):
You know, what you've observedand what you've experienced is
belong solely to you and it'sinside of you so you can write
about your experiences.
You can write about yourexperiences, but they're just.
They're your experiences,they're how you've perceived
actions and situations, and youknow there is a way to write and
(28:09):
be considerate, and a lot ofpeople get confused by that.
It's a question I get askedoften.
You know, what do I do aboutwriting about my family or
whatever?
Mm hmm, a lot of common sensereally.
Christina McKelvy (28:24):
Yeah, especially if you're writing a
piece that might not paint thatother individual in the best
light.
Kiki Walter (28:34):
That's right, and I tend to stray away from those,
although I have written about mypast marriage in probably not a
.
I mean, there were issues and Iwould write about them, but I
finished the story usually in ahopeful way, in a hopeful and
positive note.
So you know, I talked about myexperiences with my ex-husband,
(28:58):
but I end it by saying how closewe are today and what good
friends we are.
Has he read them?
Yeah, I hope not.
I hope not.
I don't know.
I don't know if he's read mywork or not.
I'm really shy about it's soweird.
(29:21):
I'm really shy about sharing mywork with people in my life.
Christina McKelvy (29:26):
I understand that, though, because the people
closest to you can say the mosthurtful.
Well, can say fun things.
Kiki Walter (29:34):
Yeah, you worry the most about what they think.
Christina McKelvy (29:36):
Exactly there we go.
Kiki Walter (29:39):
I don't really ship things out on my own for people
to read, like my mom.
I didn't even tell her I waswriting again and after about
nine months she must have beenGoogling me or something.
After about nine months sheshows up as a follower on my
medium.
I'm like okay, well, thesecret's out.
Christina McKelvy (30:00):
Oh, my goodness.
Kiki Walter (30:03):
But that's fine.
She's probably my biggestchampion.
She's always telling me you gotto write a book, you got to
write a book.
But yeah, she is proud of mywriting, so that's cool.
I mean, it's nice to havesomeone who's proud.
Christina McKelvy (30:19):
Yeah, having that cheerleader in.
Kiki Walter (30:21):
Yeah, sometimes she'll comment too much.
I'll be like okay, stop tellingme you love me in the comments.
It's freaking me out, but yeah.
Christina McKelvy (30:33):
I love that oh moms.
Yep, exactly, yeah, I have beenwriting a lot of personal
essays as well, and that issomething that I've been trying
to figure out.
Is you know the who you mentionor who you don't mention, or
how you go about that?
You know, a lot of the essays Iwrite about are my parents, and
both of them have passed.
So that's you know.
(30:53):
It's a little easier.
Kiki Walter (30:55):
Yes, I've written about my parents as well.
There are some topics I'd liketo write about.
My father's passed away now, butI don't want to hurt my mom's
feelings, so there are sometopics I don't touch, but I have
written about her and mystepdad.
But I'm very careful I try notto bring any bitter feelings or
(31:21):
angst into my writing.
When I write about family, Ichoose to write about the good
experiences and you know greatactivities we did and you know
positive things.
When it comes to my family, Idon't feel like it's necessary
to write about how I may havefelt as a teenager regarding my
(31:42):
family.
I was very independent andangsty using that word a lot.
But yeah, so I'm just careful Iwrite about them, but I'm
careful.
Christina McKelvy (31:54):
Yeah, and it's interesting when you, you
know I mentioned earlier thatwhen I read my past journals I'm
kind of like what in the world?
And so when I read my journalsas from when I was a teenager,
talk about angst and I can'timagine.
You know, my perspective havedefinitely changed.
You know, if I was to writebased off of that experience,
(32:16):
that perspective, how differentthat would be, considering, how,
like, looking back at it, andthat is the interesting thing
and I've gone back and looked atthings that I wrote back in
2008.
Kiki Walter (32:28):
And I cringe, I absolutely cringe.
I'm like A.
This is so poorly written.
Christina McKelvy (32:34):
Yes, for me yes.
Kiki Walter (32:36):
I was a mess, see, yeah, and I've redone a couple
of them, rewritten a couple ofthem.
But you're right, like whenyou're at a different, different
place in your life, yourperception can be completely
different From when you wroteabout it the first time.
Yeah, so I've experienced thatas well.
(32:59):
I was blogging back when mommy,bloggers were a big thing and I
considered myself a humorwriter at that time a humor
writer and a memoirist.
But most of my stuff was Idon't know.
I don't find it funny at all.
Christina McKelvy (33:16):
Looking back at it.
Kiki Walter (33:18):
Looking back at it, I'm like why did I call myself
a humor writer?
Because this is so not funny?
I don't know, I must be old andcranky now.
Christina McKelvy (33:35):
I mean, I'll read stuff that I wrote even a
year ago and I'm like, oh mygoodness, why did I put that out
there?
Or I have a blog and I've beenediting my blog because I want
to compile it into something.
And I'll read past blogarticles and I'm like Wow.
Kiki Walter (33:52):
I proofread this before I put it on the internet
yes, you find all the mistakes,all the mistakes you find it's,
and I'm like why didn't I havesomeone look at this?
For me it's a disaster and atthe time I thought it was you
know, brilliant you know whatyou're putting out there is like
really great.
Oh, I'm going to make $1,000for medium for this.
Christina McKelvy (34:15):
No it doesn't work that way.
Yeah, yeah, oh, my goodness,the growth of the growth as an
artist and as a writer.
You know, just as you get older, I think, with it's true, with
age comes wisdom and it reallyshows in our work.
Not my work right now, I'm notsaying that, but like, yeah well
, I think also, with age comesthe ability to free yourself
(34:40):
more.
Kiki Walter (34:41):
I think it's really it's more difficult when you're
young younger to be completelyfree with your writing.
You're holding things in,you're holding things back.
I think there are a lot moreworries, and when you get older
at least for me, I'm speakingfor myself but when you get
(35:03):
older, you just don't give ashit anymore.
You know you're not hereanymore, you know it's like I'm
putting this out there.
This is how I feel, this is myexperience, and I don't care
what anybody else thinks.
Yeah you might care but you knowwhat I mean.
You might care about, like youknow, your mom yeah my mom and
(35:26):
in our, in my podcast it'salways every other, every week,
I say something that I'm likesorry mom, it's kind of the
running joke.
Christina McKelvy (35:39):
Well, I I attended one of your medium for
medium day, one of your talks,and you know I thought that was
amazing.
And you know I do read thedifferent publications,
especially black bear and thememoirs, and I just I find it
wonderful that there's a senseof community and sense of safety
(36:03):
to, you know, for people tocome and write and submit their
stories and just have a place toshare their experiences and
hear about other people'sexperiences, or, excuse me, read
about other people'sexperiences.
I just think that's amazing.
Kiki Walter (36:16):
I could not do it without the help of Chris and
our team of editors.
They're amazing and theybasically run the show.
They're it's just a brilliantteam and they're a family and I
can't thank them enough for whatthey've done to help create a
community and work with writersthe way they do.
(36:38):
I think there is a sense.
At least they think.
What I've been told is thatpeople do love the community
feel of our publications and youknow, from the beginning I've
always wanted it to bewriter-centric, in that we help
the writers, we respect thewriters.
(37:00):
You know there's a sense ofhonor there.
Now we're all writers on theplatform so I don't want anyone
to think I think I'm better thanthem or anything like that.
We're all peers and I wantpeople on my publications to
feel like they are beingrespected for their work.
Christina McKelvy (37:25):
And that's so important and valuable,
especially in this field.
Well, kiki, I like to ask thisquestion to every guest, because
the name of my podcast isHopology, which means the study
of hope, and these stories,hopefully, are glimpses of how
(37:51):
one finds hope, how one developshope, maintains hope, including
resilience and healing.
And so I like to ask where doyou find your hope, or what
gives you hope?
Kiki Walter (38:05):
That's a great question.
What gives me hope is my innerstrength and the knowledge that
I can get through anything andhave been through a lot, and
that there is still positivityin my life.
(38:26):
Of course, you know what givesme hope my children give me hope
, of course.
I'm very close, especially tomy 21-year-old son, who's now in
Chicago, but he and I are verymuch alike.
I have an 11-year-old daughterand it's wonderful seeing her
youth every day and how she'sgrowing.
(38:46):
She's just in that stage wherethey grow so fast.
And my writing knowing that Ican be free in my writing that
that's a special place for meand I just think that, no matter
what I go through, if I haveanother bout of depression
(39:07):
that's significant I can getthrough it.
I know I can get through it.
I've gotten through it beforeand I can get through it again
and feel joy and feel, just feel.
Yeah.
I mean I don't see any finalityin anything.
I just see how things canalways be better and you can
(39:28):
always work to make thingsbetter.
And you know you might notthink that there's a reason to
have hope, but that's got tocome from inside you.
Your hope lives inside you andit's up to you how you let that
manifest.
Christina McKelvy (39:46):
That hope is found in you.
Kiki Walter (39:50):
I hope I worded that in a way that makes sense,
but your hope is inside you andit doesn't die, Even if you
think it does.
It's there.
It's there.
You can always work towardmaking things better and healing
.
Christina McKelvy (40:10):
When you were talking about hope being inside
you, I pictured a tree in yourheart.
You know, a seed and a plant.
It's just slowly growing andit's always growing.
It's always getting large.
Maybe it goes from that littleplant to a giant sequoia.
(40:32):
Yeah, I love that.
Kiki Walter (40:35):
I always say I look at life like a canvas.
You know, and you have yourbroad strokes, you have your
small, detailed lines and youjust keep adding to that canvas
and some of it may have comefrom a negative place or a hard
you know, something difficultthat you went through, and some
of those broad strokes are thegood things in life that you've
(40:58):
experienced and the people andyour relationships and
connections and what you'veconnected to.
You know, whether it's a sportor writing, or there are all
these different pieces that makeup who you are, just like the
branches on your tree, and thereare, you know, all these
different paint strokes thatmake up who you are.
Christina McKelvy (41:22):
We need to find an artist to paint
something like that.
Yes, yes, I love that.
Well, keep you.
This was great.
I again, I do love the workyou're doing and you and Chris
Robin and all your editors, youknow with the different
publications and I look forwardto seeing how they grow, and I
(41:44):
really appreciate that youdecided to come and join me on
my podcast.
Oh, thank you so much forhaving me.
This was great.
Kiki Walter (41:50):
You're welcome.
Welcome to Hopology.
Stories of Hope, healing andResilience.
I'm your host, christinaMcKelvie.
Today we're going to bespeaking with Kiki Walter.
Hello Kiki, how are you?
Kiki Walter (00:09):
I am doing great, thank you.
Christina McKelvy (00:11):
I'm glad you're doing well.
It's Monday.
How was your weekend?
Kiki Walter (00:17):
I've been.
I've had a very busy weekend.
I'm in the middle of a move.
Oh gosh.
Yeah, this weekend it was a lotof going back and forth.
I'm not moving very far away,so it was a lot of packing, a
lot of moving boxes.
It's an exciting time.
Christina McKelvy (00:33):
You know, moving at least for me can be
exciting because it's new and Ilike to organize and go through
things, but the whole packingand unpacking is just always so
daunting, I don't know if that'sthe same for you.
It is very daunting.
Kiki Walter (00:50):
Especially I am kind of a person who is encased
in chaos.
I'm just have a chaotic mind,I'm not super organized, so yeah
it's a lot, but you know I'mhaving fun with it.
Christina McKelvy (01:07):
Encasing chaos.
That sounds like a movie name.
It does.
Kiki Walter (01:12):
I don't really even know if that makes sense, but
it's what popped out of my head.
Christina McKelvy (01:17):
No, it does, it does.
Well you know, kiki, I asked youto come on the podcast because
I've been following a lot ofyour publications on Medium,
black Bear, age of Empathy, theMemorist and I find those
publications really amazing,especially Black Bear.
You know, I have read a few ofthose where it's like stories of
(01:38):
mental health and sobriety andrecovery, and so I just wanted
to chat with you a little bittoday on how you came to create
those different publications andyour own story regarding it.
Tell me a little bit aboutthose publications and, yeah,
how you came to create it.
Kiki Walter (01:54):
Sure, so I have three big publications and then
some smaller ones, but I'll justaddress the big ones right now.
Our number one publication isthe Memorist, and I started that
publication a week after Ijoined Medium.
I was looking for a publicationthat was for memoirists.
(02:15):
That's my genre of choice inwriting that in personal essays
and I couldn't find anythingthat I any publications that I
wanted to publish on, so I justcreated my own and the rest
followed.
Age of Empathy, I acquired fromanother writer, and Black Bear.
(02:39):
I started right around the timethat I began intensive
outpatient treatment fordepression.
And Black Bear.
And also I have experience.
I have a background in mentalhealth writing.
I was a content director forseveral years.
So I'm I know the genre welland I'm comfortable writing
(03:04):
about it.
I'm comfortable editing storiesabout it and I was really
looking for personal stories forall three of my publications.
I really like that personaltouch.
So almost you know, even withthe essays, you know more.
They almost feel like memoirs,because I like when people talk
(03:25):
about themselves.
People relate to people.
Christina McKelvy (03:29):
Yeah it.
It almost helps with theempathetic, empathetic building,
facing compassion and empathywhen you're hearing someone's
story because you're like, oh, Irelate.
Kiki Walter (03:40):
I've been there, yes, yes, and I think that's
especially true for Black Bear.
Many of the comments are insupport, and you know saying me
too.
You know I've been through thisas well so that publication in
particular, people have aconnection there, you know, I
(04:00):
think they really connect to theother writers and you know it's
become a community of its own,much like the memoirist is a
community.
So, then, really fun seeing itgrow and building it.
Christina McKelvy (04:15):
And you said it started a few months ago or
earlier this year.
Kiki Walter (04:20):
I started it, I believe, in December, maybe of
last year.
It was some time around therejust kind of basing off my own
journey when when I would havestarted it, maybe November.
Yeah, seems like I start mypubs in November, so we'll go
with that.
Christina McKelvy (04:40):
Okay, that's the thing.
I tell me a little bit moreabout that your journey, where
you you mentioned you're in IOPyourself when you started Black
Bear and how that might havemaybe helped your own personal
journey through IOP, which forour listeners means intensive
outpatient therapy, or how, viceversa, how maybe that informed
(05:04):
your writing?
Kiki Walter (05:05):
Well, writing, as you know, is very therapeutic.
Yes, so when I startedIntensive Outpatient it was I
did take a writing therapy classand, you know, just writing
really helped me find somebalance that I needed.
(05:28):
And starting the publication,starting Black Bear, I felt like
I was giving back to otherpeople, not just ensuring my
story.
At that time I felt very freeto write about it.
I go back and forth with howmuch I want to say and publish
about my own personal journey,but it was just important to me.
(05:52):
You know, I was like this makessense for me at this time to
start this and I do feel likewriting about my experience in
IOP, writing about my experiencewith depression over the years,
was very cathartic and helpedme immensely, and I think that
(06:13):
it's true for other people whowrite on Black Bear.
I hear that a lot.
Christina McKelvy (06:21):
And in what ways does it help you?
You know, I know for myself.
I read back some of my oldjournals who are like whoa.
Kiki Walter (06:30):
Yes, I've done that .
Christina McKelvy (06:32):
Yeah.
So I'm curious how maybe evenmost recently or over the years
you know, writing your ownmemoirs, how that helped your
personal mental journey.
Kiki Walter (06:41):
Oh, that's a good question, because I actually
started out as an actress andone of the things I always said
was I connected to actingbecause it was a way to get my
emotions out.
I tend to bottle things up andI ended my acting career when I
(07:01):
had my son.
I was 31 years old at the timeand I've always been a writer,
but I started focusing more onwriting as a hobby and for me it
was just a way of getting thoseemotions out again.
It was the same thing pouringmy feelings out on paper
(07:22):
experiences through memoir or anessay or you know a piece about
mental health.
It just gets that angst out.
It gets, you know, the ball ofyou know whatever in your
stomach.
That's just sitting there.
I can pour it out on the paper.
Well, you know the proverbialpaper.
(07:44):
You know I just sit and let myfingers fly on my computer.
And it's like it all comes out,and sometimes that's good, and
sometimes, as I've grown as awriter like, I'll have
Christopher Robbin edit my worka lot of the time, because I'm
not.
I basically write, pour it outand that's it I'm not a big
(08:07):
drafter I'm not, you know sosometimes he's like okay, you
got to rain it in here, rain itin there.
But I just pour it all out.
I don't really think too muchwhen I'm writing.
I don't really think too muchwhen I'm writing.
Christina McKelvy (08:22):
Sounds very similar to the morning pages.
Kiki Walter (08:25):
Yes, it is.
That's in fact, when I stoppedacting and got into writing.
That was one of the firstthings I bought was Julia
Cameron's book.
What's it called?
The oh my goodness, I was just.
I know it's like on the tip ofmy tongue.
Christina McKelvy (08:43):
I was just the artist way.
I was like I was just readingthe artist way.
Kiki Walter (08:46):
Yes, I bought the artists way and I would go on
and off with journaling, but Iloved the concept of morning
papers, whether it was in themorning or not.
That is definitely an approachof mine just letting my fingers
go, letting my mind go andseeing what I get, and then then
(09:07):
I can refine it a little bit.
I'm not really a drafter toomuch, but of course I go through
my work and see if I needanything to add, remove words
that I've used 15 times in oneparagraph that kind of thing.
I'm a much better editor onother people's work.
(09:28):
I'm not so great with myself.
Christina McKelvy (09:32):
I relate to that.
I think you're like readinglike oh my goodness, how did I
write this?
Yeah, so it sounds like there'salmost like a sense of freedom
for yourself.
When you were, you know, whenyou write and you mentioned
letting your emotions outsimilar to acting, and it's
almost like this I'm wonderingif there's like a sense of
safety because, like, at leastwith acting, I'm not me, I'm
(09:56):
acting like someone else, so Ican do this.
Kiki Walter (10:02):
Right, definitely a sense of safety and freedom.
I had, like my ex-husband waskind of controlling.
So I've had like an issue ofgetting into these controlling
relationships in the past and itwas something that was my own,
you know, it was my writing, wasmy own, it belonged to me,
(10:25):
nobody could control it.
But that actually ended up notso true either, because in some
of these past relationships.
I had one long term relationshipwhere he would not like
something I wrote, complainabout it.
I started feeling very censoredin my writing and I'm I don't
(10:48):
usually censor myself.
I don't like that.
So that was one reason Istopped writing for a while was
that particular relationship andin my current relationship,
he's very supportive of mywriting, so that's been really
great.
So sometimes I mean, it reallydepends on the person and your
personality.
But yeah, I get stuck in myhead a lot.
(11:09):
So it is very freeing to writeand get those words out, get
those thoughts out, yeah,without feeling like I'm being
hovered over.
Christina McKelvy (11:22):
Freedom and safety go hand in hand.
For sure, you know, with myclients, I will tell them I was
signed journaling and I willtell them you know that you can
write in your journal and thenrip up the papers, read the
paper if you need to, or writeover it or don't look at it at
(11:44):
all, but you're getting it out.
There's just something aboutwhether that's through writing
or acting or songwriting, Likeyou said getting those emotions
out so they're not bottled up.
Kiki Walter (11:56):
That's funny.
I have a friend who gave mesome really great advice when I
got back into journaling thisyear, which again was about the
time I was in IOP I am veryspecific with the date.
Everything is uniform and hesaid don't do that.
This is your notebook, this isyour book, your journal.
(12:20):
Doodle in it, do whatever comesto you and what you feel.
You don't have to keep it neat,you don't have to keep it super
organized.
Just get your feelings out inwhatever way that might manifest
, whether it's writing ordrawing or scribbling really
hard across the page.
Whatever you have to do, itbelongs to you.
(12:42):
It's your book.
You're not doing it for anyoneelse, you're doing it for
yourself.
So I really loved that advice.
So now I'm using colors and itdoes look like a mess, but it's
mine.
Christina McKelvy (12:56):
Exactly, it's your mess.
Yeah, I love that it's my mess.
Kiki Walter (13:05):
Yes, I think that's a good attitude to have my life
is my mess.
Christina McKelvy (13:11):
And again it's having that space and
freedom, that sense of safety tobe able to be a missed in a
mess and having those emotionsout.
And it sounds like your oldrelationship didn't allow for
that.
But now you have that freedomand so it definitely makes sense
that you came back to writingand started these publications.
Kiki Walter (13:29):
I needed an outlet of some kind.
I'm a very creative person.
So I need some kind of creativeoutlet, whether it's music or
writing, or I went through ajewelry making phase as long as
it's something that I can use.
Christina McKelvy (13:51):
What is it about creativity that you feel
plays a really big part inhealing and recovery?
Kiki Walter (13:58):
and you know.
I think again, it's safety.
It's the safety and freedom Ithink in recovery, whether
you're you know you've sufferedgreat trauma or your depression,
or you're on a sobriety journey, I think that creativity is a
great tool because it helps youthink about your emotions, it
(14:22):
helps you focus your emotions,it just helps with healing
because of the safety aspect, Ibelieve.
And maybe people are creativeand they don't feel they have
mental health issues or you knowwhatever, but I think it can
help everybody in some way.
Being creative, whatever thatmight look like, you know you
(14:44):
can sit and play a guitarmindlessly or make your jewelry
or paint, you know, paint apicture.
And again, I have a friend who'sgotten really into painting and
you know it's a great outletother than writing, besides
writing.
So it's just that whole freeingyour mind and allowing your the
(15:07):
inside of your soul to the youknow depth of your stomach.
Just get it out.
And I think getting it out,learning how to get it out, is
again very therapeutic.
And what you're aiming for tonot be afraid anymore of those
feelings, having that hope,having that drive to move
(15:30):
forward.
Christina McKelvy (15:33):
Yeah, the hope, that drive, not being
afraid and I love what you justsaid allow the inside of your
soul, like allowing the depthsand just having it, like get it
out, like getting out thosefeelings and emotions.
Holding them in just doesn'treally help anybody.
Kiki Walter (15:57):
No holding them in, I found caused physical issues
for me in the past couple ofyears until I went to, until I
went to IOP, I really wassuffering with a lot of physical
stuff going on neurologicalissues and and since IOP I've
had a very freeing experiencewith my body.
(16:20):
So it's I'm not in the pain thatI was anymore and I'm pretty
self aware and I've, you know,been able to manage my
depression.
A lot of things came togetherat once when I went into IOP but
, like I said, I am, I was inthe mental health industry, so I
(16:40):
knew the importance of gettinghelp if you needed help, if you
wanted help, and the timing wasperfect for me and I wanted to
get help getting my headstraight and not just pressure
myself into doing it.
I wanted that safe place and itwas a safe place and I would
(17:02):
highly recommend it to anybodywho's going through an issue.
I mean you don't have to go toin person treatment necessarily.
You could.
You know the IOP program wasall online and I'm I still go to
an alumni group and it was justso great, so great.
(17:28):
I mean it was the best thing Icould have done for myself.
Yeah.
That's when you started BlackBear and that's when I started
Black Bear, and because mentalhealth was such a big part of my
life at that point and wantingto heal and wanting to get to a
better place again that all Iwas thinking about at that time
(17:51):
was mental health.
So yes it was, the timing wasperfect to create Black Bear.
Christina McKelvy (17:59):
Yeah, and I'm curious about you mentioned it
was the perfect time for you togo to IOP.
If you don't mind sharing whatwas the catalyst, or that aha
moment where, like I need, Ineed a little bit more help than
I could offer myself.
Kiki Walter (18:12):
Yeah, I really can't talk about that.
I'll just say that I was in aplace where everything in my
life was just overwhelming and Ijust knew and you know, I knew
in my gut that I could probablyget through it eventually.
But it would be best if I gotsome help.
(18:34):
And the physical issues reallydrove that as well, because I
wasn't sure.
I wasn't sure if I had somekind of serious thing going on
or if it was related to mymental health.
So the physical issues that Iwas suffering from I was having
trouble walking, I had severepain in neuropathy, I had severe
(18:57):
pain in my neck and headaches,I mean the whole thing.
It just and it really madecognitively I had issues going
on.
So, yeah, it was the right time.
And at the same time I decidedto take a sobriety journey.
It was just, I wanted to behealthy, I just wanted to be
(19:19):
healthier.
So that's been about a year forme as well and it's been great.
You know, even drinking a glassof wine or two a week, you know
, is not, was not good for mydepression.
So I decided to, you know, takemy entire life into my hands
(19:41):
and do something about it, dosomething to feel better all the
way around.
Christina McKelvy (19:46):
Well, congratulations.
You said it's been almost ayear, so congratulations for
that.
And you said you wanted to feelbetter and that's like the.
I think that's like the biggestthing right there, right,
wanting to feel better wheneverthat means for you or others.
Yes, yeah, yeah, and it'sinteresting.
(20:06):
You mentioned the physicalsymptoms and you know we won't
go fully into it, but when youhold your emotions in, like I
always like tell you knowclients, like sometimes we're
tense, you know our shouldersare tense and our muscles get
tense and it's because I thinkwe're well, we're tense, you
know we're holding in thoseemotions.
And so when we are feeling freeto be able to express those
feelings in a safe way, a lot ofmy clients will say that they
(20:29):
feel relaxed.
Yeah, we're not just my clients, people myself, I've done that
too, like you.
Just there's a sense of freedom, like you mentioned, and
feeling relaxed and just at ease.
Kiki Walter (20:39):
Well, when I finished IOP, I started going to
and this is going to sound kindof woo woo, but I started
seeing a bio energeticpractitioner.
What's?
Christina McKelvy (20:50):
that.
Kiki Walter (20:51):
So how do you describe it?
Well, we did what's calledtapping.
Yes, so we did tapping.
It's a lot of like mind andbody focus.
So it was kind of like theperfect thing with me, since I
was going through those physicalissues, really using the mind
(21:12):
and the tapping and the you knowtype of.
She also did talk therapy withme, but Okay, so it just was
bringing it all together andlearning how to let go of that
stress and anxiety anddepression that I was holding in
my body, and it was better thanany other therapy I had.
(21:36):
I was trying to see it and oneon one, a psychiatrist,
psychologist at the same time,and he just didn't connect with
me in the same way.
So this bio energeticpractitioner, she's just great,
she's wonderful and she actuallyruns our alumni group as well
and I have a great connectionwith her, which made me feel
(21:58):
safe and free to really exploremyself deeper.
Yeah.
Christina McKelvy (22:08):
Sounds very somatic.
Yeah, I'm not like experiencing.
Kiki Walter (22:11):
Yes, Very much so, and you know, I think many of my
issues were somatic.
So yeah, it's great.
Christina McKelvy (22:25):
Well, that's really that's.
I love hearing your journey.
Like you're, like I have to,I'm having this physical pain, I
have you know these thingsgoing on.
So I need to go to IOP, Ienroll in IOP, I need to start
this publication.
You know and mention that, likeother people are telling you
(22:45):
how inspiring and helpful BlackBear and the memoirs and these
publications are, you know soit's, you're helping others by
helping yourself and, like yes,yes, and it feels great.
Kiki Walter (22:58):
I love, I love that .
Christina McKelvy (23:01):
How has the sense of community been through
Black Bear medium?
You know just or just ingeneral writing.
You know the writing community.
Kiki Walter (23:09):
It's been amazing.
I have, you know my circle offriends on medium and Twitter
and Instagram and you know so in.
It's interesting how eachplatform we relate to each other
differently.
Like comments on medium aredifferent from you know, when
you're getting into a Twittercircle and just in the goofier
(23:32):
and then Instagram, you kind ofsee glimpses of another person's
life.
So it's just really interestingto me how they all work
together and how they'redifferent and and the community
we've built, you know, is justyou're seeing different little
snippets of each person, and wehave a Slack channel for our
(23:53):
editors and we've also opened itup to you know, inviting
certain people if they'd like tobe part of it, and that's been
really great too.
I mean, we're a big family onthere and and that's the thing
about substack that I, you know,I tried substack as well and I
really missed the community feel.
(24:13):
Well, I didn't miss it becauseI was still on medium, but you
noticed it didn't have it.
Yeah, it wasn't the same and thecommunity is supporting one
another is just incredible whenyou find the right people,
especially when you're writingessays and more personal work.
Christina McKelvy (24:33):
Yeah, yeah, I was just going to say that
community really can help withgrowth and healing.
You know that connection, youknow that's just really
something that's been a themethat I've been finding and so it
sounds like even within mediumand the publications you've made
and just writing, you've beenable to find that sense of
community and I'm curious howthat's been beneficial for you
(24:53):
personally.
Kiki Walter (24:55):
Well, like many writers, I'm very much an
introvert and I don't reallyhave a big group of friends
where I live, which is okaybecause I am an introvert.
So, like I have my one reallyclose girlfriend and then some
friendships through my boyfriend, but for the most part I stay
(25:20):
at home.
I'm a homebody.
So the community through mediumhas really given me a sense of
friendship and people I can talkto in a couple of instances
that I can confide in.
It's just brought these coolfriendships and you know it
(25:41):
sounds kind of geeky, you knowall my friends are all online,
but in a way it's not at allyeah.
In a way it's true, and you knowjust supporting each other when
you write something, orsupporting each other, you know,
when you're going through alife change.
It's just been great havingthat group.
Christina McKelvy (26:02):
Mm, hmm, mm, hmm.
All your friends are in yourpocket.
Kiki Walter (26:05):
Yeah, that's exactly right, and I wasn't.
They knew what I was goingthrough when I went to IOP.
But I didn't really talk openlyabout it too much.
You know, I wrote about it acouple of times, but I can also
be a very private person.
Christina McKelvy (26:22):
Yeah.
Kiki Walter (26:23):
So I'm selective with what I put out there on the
internet Pretty wise, eventhough I don't censor what I'm
writing.
Yeah, there are certain topicsI won't I won't write about.
Like, I don't write about mychildren, and that's just a
personal choice I made, actuallystemming from, you know, going
(26:44):
to custody court a number oftimes.
So, yeah, I just I don't reallytalk about them.
If I do, it's in a very generalmanner, yeah, and it's and
writing about other people islike such a big topic.
When you're an essayist or amemoirist, you know, what can
(27:04):
you, how far can you go, whatcan you say?
It really depends on yourrelationships and you.
You know it is a very personalchoice.
I often use real names, firstnames.
I don't use full names, mm, hmm, sometimes I will, you know,
(27:25):
give them fake names if it's asomething I really don't want
them to worry about being online.
But yeah, it's interesting beinga writer of personal stories in
that way because you'rebringing them into your stories
as well.
But you need to keep it aboutyourself and I shouldn't be
about others, because you're notin their heads.
(27:47):
You know, what you've observedand what you've experienced is
belong solely to you and it'sinside of you so you can write
about your experiences.
You can write about yourexperiences, but they're just.
They're your experiences,they're how you've perceived
actions and situations, and youknow there is a way to write and
(28:09):
be considerate, and a lot ofpeople get confused by that.
It's a question I get askedoften.
You know, what do I do aboutwriting about my family or
whatever?
Mm hmm, a lot of common sensereally.
Christina McKelvy (28:24):
Yeah, especially if you're writing a
piece that might not paint thatother individual in the best
light.
Kiki Walter (28:34):
That's right, and I tend to stray away from those,
although I have written about mypast marriage in probably not a
.
I mean, there were issues and Iwould write about them, but I
finished the story usually in ahopeful way, in a hopeful and
positive note.
So you know, I talked about myexperiences with my ex-husband,
(28:58):
but I end it by saying how closewe are today and what good
friends we are.
Has he read them?
Yeah, I hope not.
I hope not.
I don't know.
I don't know if he's read mywork or not.
I'm really shy about it's soweird.
(29:21):
I'm really shy about sharing mywork with people in my life.
Christina McKelvy (29:26):
I understand that, though, because the people
closest to you can say the mosthurtful.
Well, can say fun things.
Kiki Walter (29:34):
Yeah, you worry the most about what they think.
Christina McKelvy (29:36):
Exactly there we go.
Kiki Walter (29:39):
I don't really ship things out on my own for people
to read, like my mom.
I didn't even tell her I waswriting again and after about
nine months she must have beenGoogling me or something.
After about nine months sheshows up as a follower on my
medium.
I'm like okay, well, thesecret's out.
Christina McKelvy (30:00):
Oh, my goodness.
Kiki Walter (30:03):
But that's fine.
She's probably my biggestchampion.
She's always telling me you gotto write a book, you got to
write a book.
But yeah, she is proud of mywriting, so that's cool.
I mean, it's nice to havesomeone who's proud.
Christina McKelvy (30:19):
Yeah, having that cheerleader in.
Kiki Walter (30:21):
Yeah, sometimes she'll comment too much.
I'll be like okay, stop tellingme you love me in the comments.
It's freaking me out, but yeah.
Christina McKelvy (30:33):
I love that oh moms.
Yep, exactly, yeah, I have beenwriting a lot of personal
essays as well, and that issomething that I've been trying
to figure out.
Is you know the who you mentionor who you don't mention, or
how you go about that?
You know, a lot of the essays Iwrite about are my parents, and
both of them have passed.
So that's you know.
(30:53):
It's a little easier.
Kiki Walter (30:55):
Yes, I've written about my parents as well.
There are some topics I'd liketo write about.
My father's passed away now, butI don't want to hurt my mom's
feelings, so there are sometopics I don't touch, but I have
written about her and mystepdad.
But I'm very careful I try notto bring any bitter feelings or
(31:21):
angst into my writing.
When I write about family, Ichoose to write about the good
experiences and you know greatactivities we did and you know
positive things.
When it comes to my family, Idon't feel like it's necessary
to write about how I may havefelt as a teenager regarding my
(31:42):
family.
I was very independent andangsty using that word a lot.
But yeah, so I'm just careful Iwrite about them, but I'm
careful.
Christina McKelvy (31:54):
Yeah, and it's interesting when you, you
know I mentioned earlier thatwhen I read my past journals I'm
kind of like what in the world?
And so when I read my journalsas from when I was a teenager,
talk about angst and I can'timagine.
You know, my perspective havedefinitely changed.
You know, if I was to writebased off of that experience,
(32:16):
that perspective, how differentthat would be, considering, how,
like, looking back at it, andthat is the interesting thing
and I've gone back and looked atthings that I wrote back in
2008.
Kiki Walter (32:28):
And I cringe, I absolutely cringe.
I'm like A.
This is so poorly written.
Christina McKelvy (32:34):
Yes, for me yes.
Kiki Walter (32:36):
I was a mess, see, yeah, and I've redone a couple
of them, rewritten a couple ofthem.
But you're right, like whenyou're at a different, different
place in your life, yourperception can be completely
different From when you wroteabout it the first time.
Yeah, so I've experienced thatas well.
(32:59):
I was blogging back when mommy,bloggers were a big thing and I
considered myself a humorwriter at that time a humor
writer and a memoirist.
But most of my stuff was Idon't know.
I don't find it funny at all.
Christina McKelvy (33:16):
Looking back at it.
Kiki Walter (33:18):
Looking back at it, I'm like why did I call myself
a humor writer?
Because this is so not funny?
I don't know, I must be old andcranky now.
Christina McKelvy (33:35):
I mean, I'll read stuff that I wrote even a
year ago and I'm like, oh mygoodness, why did I put that out
there?
Or I have a blog and I've beenediting my blog because I want
to compile it into something.
And I'll read past blogarticles and I'm like Wow.
Kiki Walter (33:52):
I proofread this before I put it on the internet
yes, you find all the mistakes,all the mistakes you find it's,
and I'm like why didn't I havesomeone look at this?
For me it's a disaster and atthe time I thought it was you
know, brilliant you know whatyou're putting out there is like
really great.
Oh, I'm going to make $1,000for medium for this.
Christina McKelvy (34:15):
No it doesn't work that way.
Yeah, yeah, oh, my goodness,the growth of the growth as an
artist and as a writer.
You know, just as you get older, I think, with it's true, with
age comes wisdom and it reallyshows in our work.
Not my work right now, I'm notsaying that, but like, yeah well
, I think also, with age comesthe ability to free yourself
(34:40):
more.
Kiki Walter (34:41):
I think it's really it's more difficult when you're
young younger to be completelyfree with your writing.
You're holding things in,you're holding things back.
I think there are a lot moreworries, and when you get older
at least for me, I'm speakingfor myself but when you get
(35:03):
older, you just don't give ashit anymore.
You know you're not hereanymore, you know it's like I'm
putting this out there.
This is how I feel, this is myexperience, and I don't care
what anybody else thinks.
Yeah you might care but you knowwhat I mean.
You might care about, like youknow, your mom yeah my mom and
(35:26):
in our, in my podcast it'salways every other, every week,
I say something that I'm likesorry mom, it's kind of the
running joke.
Christina McKelvy (35:39):
Well, I I attended one of your medium for
medium day, one of your talks,and you know I thought that was
amazing.
And you know I do read thedifferent publications,
especially black bear and thememoirs, and I just I find it
wonderful that there's a senseof community and sense of safety
(36:03):
to, you know, for people tocome and write and submit their
stories and just have a place toshare their experiences and
hear about other people'sexperiences, or, excuse me, read
about other people'sexperiences.
I just think that's amazing.
Kiki Walter (36:16):
I could not do it without the help of Chris and
our team of editors.
They're amazing and theybasically run the show.
They're it's just a brilliantteam and they're a family and I
can't thank them enough for whatthey've done to help create a
community and work with writersthe way they do.
(36:38):
I think there is a sense.
At least they think.
What I've been told is thatpeople do love the community
feel of our publications and youknow, from the beginning I've
always wanted it to bewriter-centric, in that we help
the writers, we respect thewriters.
(37:00):
You know there's a sense ofhonor there.
Now we're all writers on theplatform so I don't want anyone
to think I think I'm better thanthem or anything like that.
We're all peers and I wantpeople on my publications to
feel like they are beingrespected for their work.
Christina McKelvy (37:25):
And that's so important and valuable,
especially in this field.
Well, kiki, I like to ask thisquestion to every guest, because
the name of my podcast isHopology, which means the study
of hope, and these stories,hopefully, are glimpses of how
(37:51):
one finds hope, how one developshope, maintains hope, including
resilience and healing.
And so I like to ask where doyou find your hope, or what
gives you hope?
Kiki Walter (38:05):
That's a great question.
What gives me hope is my innerstrength and the knowledge that
I can get through anything andhave been through a lot, and
that there is still positivityin my life.
(38:26):
Of course, you know what givesme hope my children give me hope
, of course.
I'm very close, especially tomy 21-year-old son, who's now in
Chicago, but he and I are verymuch alike.
I have an 11-year-old daughterand it's wonderful seeing her
youth every day and how she'sgrowing.
(38:46):
She's just in that stage wherethey grow so fast.
And my writing knowing that Ican be free in my writing that
that's a special place for meand I just think that, no matter
what I go through, if I haveanother bout of depression
(39:07):
that's significant I can getthrough it.
I know I can get through it.
I've gotten through it beforeand I can get through it again
and feel joy and feel, just feel.
Yeah.
I mean I don't see any finalityin anything.
I just see how things canalways be better and you can
(39:28):
always work to make thingsbetter.
And you know you might notthink that there's a reason to
have hope, but that's got tocome from inside you.
Your hope lives inside you andit's up to you how you let that
manifest.
Christina McKelvy (39:46):
That hope is found in you.
Kiki Walter (39:50):
I hope I worded that in a way that makes sense,
but your hope is inside you andit doesn't die, Even if you
think it does.
It's there.
It's there.
You can always work towardmaking things better and healing
.
Christina McKelvy (40:10):
When you were talking about hope being inside
you, I pictured a tree in yourheart.
You know, a seed and a plant.
It's just slowly growing andit's always growing.
It's always getting large.
Maybe it goes from that littleplant to a giant sequoia.
(40:32):
Yeah, I love that.
Kiki Walter (40:35):
I always say I look at life like a canvas.
You know, and you have yourbroad strokes, you have your
small, detailed lines and youjust keep adding to that canvas
and some of it may have comefrom a negative place or a hard
you know, something difficultthat you went through, and some
of those broad strokes are thegood things in life that you've
(40:58):
experienced and the people andyour relationships and
connections and what you'veconnected to.
You know, whether it's a sportor writing, or there are all
these different pieces that makeup who you are, just like the
branches on your tree, and thereare, you know, all these
different paint strokes thatmake up who you are.
Christina McKelvy (41:22):
We need to find an artist to paint
something like that.
Yes, yes, I love that.
Well, keep you.
This was great.
I again, I do love the workyou're doing and you and Chris
Robin and all your editors, youknow with the different
publications and I look forwardto seeing how they grow, and I
(41:44):
really appreciate that youdecided to come and join me on
my podcast.
Oh, thank you so much forhaving me.
This was great.
Kiki Walter (41:50):
You're welcome.
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