May 20, 2025 • 55 mins
In this tender and powerful episode of Hot + Brave, I’m joined by Jillian Marchand, founder of Exploring Embodiment, for a deep dive into breathwork, reproductive health, and the cultural disconnection so many of us carry in our womb space. We talk about how shame, trauma, and discomfort get stored in the body and how breath can be a gentle way home. Jillian shares accessible tools for shifting your relationship with your womb and honoring your body as sacred, even when it’s hard.
Jillian is a trauma-informed breathwork facilitator, Reiki Master, and the heart behind Exploring Embodiment. Learn more about her work at https://exploringembodiment.square.site
We also cover:
- What breathwork offers us when talk therapy falls short
- Cultural messaging that distances us from the pelvic space
- How to meet discomfort without collapsing into it
- Practical ways to reconnect with your body, even after trauma
This one’s especially for birth workers, doulas, and anyone who has felt numb, angry, or ashamed of their body. There’s healing here.
Early bird is now open for our Maternal Support Practitioner training and you can use the code BIRTHBIRD for big savings (yes, it works on payment plans). www.bebomia.com/doulatraining
I’ll also be speaking next week at the Collaborative Birth Conference in London, Ontario - if you entered our giveaway for a free virtual ticket, we’re announcing the winner later today!
And hey, bebo mia is hiring! If you love sales and birthwork and you’re passionate about reproductive justice, send us an email at info@bebomia.com to apply.
Make sure you subscribe, leave a review, and grab your headphones. Let’s breathe together.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
You are listening to the Hot and Brave podcast with
Bianca Sprague from Bebo Mia,where you will hear brave
stories, hot topics, and truthbombs that will either light
fire to your rage or be the balmyou need for your soul.
SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
Hey, hey, you're listening to the Hot and Brave
podcast where we talk about themessy, beautiful, ragey, sacred
reality of life in this currentworld.
I'm your host, Bianca Sprague,and I'm so glad you're here.
Before we dive into thispowerful episode with Jillian
Marchand, I've got a few updatesand some real life to share with
you.
(00:38):
Because if we're going to talkabout embodiment, it feels right
to start with what's alive in mybody right now.
So this past weekend, my, Iguess, technically ex-con my
cousin-in-law Ashley she came tovisit me from Toronto and we did
so many magical things includinghaving a lovely session with
(00:59):
Jillian Marchand who is my guesttoday and Ashley and I we you
know explored my little town andshe went to our farmer's market
and on Saturday we drove theCabot Trail together oh my god
when I say it was magic I meanit it was this cold spring air
(01:20):
the roof down on the mustangconvertible she rented uh every
time we took off from a like aphoto spot like a pullover of
which we hit all of them wewould scream mustang the sun was
on our faces a little too muchsun i forgot my sunscreen um and
to be honest my nose gotscorched the birch pollen puffed
(01:44):
my eyes up so i look like oh mygoodness you don't even want to
know I don't even know they werelike on fire but it was so worth
it when we pulled into thedriveway 12 hours later it
looked like we had really beento hell and back even though we
sat in a luxury vehicle drivingbut you know we laughed the
(02:05):
whole time we blasted MustangSally and that was the only song
even though I had great playlistready because we talked about
everything and we watched thecliffs and the ocean blur past I
miss her already and I'm I'mjust really grateful she made
the trip.
Sometimes joy just sneaks up onus like that.
And now some exciting thingshappening here at Bebo Miha.
(02:28):
Early bird registration is nowopen.
I finally got all, all the techchanged over.
Uh, so our maternal supportpractitioner training.
Yep.
That's our full spectrum doulacert program.
Um, it is open for registry, uh,open for registration and, you
can use the code birth bird fora huge savings and it does work
(02:50):
on payment plans.
We get that question all thetime.
And if you've been waiting for asign to start your doula
journey, this is it.
Uh, also next weekend I will bein London Ontario for the
collaborative birth conferenceI'll be speaking there I have a
workshop I'm on a panel it'sgoing to be a really beautiful
gathering and you'll get to seeKelly and I so if you want to be
(03:11):
in London Ontario here is alsoyour sign also if you entered
our giveaway for the freevirtual ticket to attend stay
tuned we're going to beannouncing that winner later
today and Babel Mia is hiring weare building out our grassroots
Roots community-led sales team.
And if you are great atconnecting with folks, good at
(03:32):
sales, passionate about birthjustice and reproductive health,
we want to hear from you.
So shoot us an email at info atbabelmia.com to apply.
And another heads up, ourscholarship program will be
accepting applications in acouple of weeks when I get back
from the conference.
We need a little bit more time,but keep your eye on your inbox
(03:53):
and our socials.
If that's something you'rehoping for, you'll be able to
get that application in.
All right, y'all.
Let's talk about breath, bodies,wombs, and all this goodness.
Today's episode is with theincredible Jillian Marchand, who
I've talked about several times.
Jillian is the founder ofExploring Embodiment, a somatic
(04:14):
healing community where shesupports folks on their
self-healing journeys.
She does, oh my goodness, shecan do so many things.
She's a Reiki master and atrauma-informed breathwork
facilitator.
She does cacao ceremonies whichI think is really cool I haven't
had the chance to do that butI've done her Reiki and her
breath work and her sound bathsand she brings her background in
(04:39):
dance to all of her offeringsshe helps people use movement
breath and sound to shift theirenergy and reconnect with their
inner wisdom and thisconversation is so tender and
important in it we're going tobe talking about cultural
messages that keep so many of usdisconnected from our wombs
shame, disgust, trauma, silenceand how we can use breath work
(05:01):
to come home to ourselves.
It's a really nice follow-up tothe conversation I had with Anna
from Sacred Birth Internationala couple episodes back.
So I would recommend listeningto both of them.
They just build on each other ina really lovely way.
And Jillian shares how breathcan help us regulate differently
to discomfort and how we can bethis really gentle way to meet
(05:24):
the parts of ourselves we'vebeen taught to avoid.
And it kind of creates this pathback to the sacred.
So whether you're a doula, abirth worker, or somebody in a
body who has struggled to feelat home there, this episode is
definitely going to speak toyou.
Grab those headphones, take adeep breath, let's get into it.
Oh yeah, and if this show meanssomething to you, it would mean
(05:44):
so much to me if you could leaveus a review or share it with
someone who needs it.
It helps other folks find us andit keeps these conversations
going.
All right y'all, here's myconversation with Jillian.
Hey y'all, I am so excited aboutthis conversation.
I am currently sitting in acavernous beautiful room, hence
there's a bit of an echo, andJillian and I are staring out
(06:08):
over the ocean that is just likeso stunning.
You should see her beautifulhouse.
I've done such amazingbreathwork with her and after
having two transformativesessions, I had to have her on
the podcast to talk about thisamazing work that she does, that
you do.
I'm like talking to you guys,talking to Jillian Here we are.
(06:28):
Hi, Jillian.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Hi.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
Yeah, I'm excited to be here.
My first podcast ever, so I haveno idea what to expect, but I'm
excited to dive in.
We'll be
SPEAKER_02 (06:40):
gentle.
Honestly, y'all, right now we'relike flopped on the floor
looking at the ocean, hopingthat the sound works out for
everything.
Oh, man.
Okay, well, let's start at thebeginning.
What brought you intobreathwork?
Why did you want to explore thisand the womb space like how did
(07:00):
this all intersect
SPEAKER_01 (07:05):
I mean I think very common to a lot of people who
get into this work is it startswith your own struggles with
your own issues and so for me Itwas probably six or seven years
ago.
Everything was kind of coming toa head.
(07:25):
The stress, all of the thingsthat I was going through.
I was struggling with boundaryissues, with not speaking my
truth, and just feeling like Iwas living different realities
than everyone who was around me.
It was like we weren't...
We weren't really talking aboutthe same things.
My partner and I, we could behaving an argument and we're
(07:48):
both clearly in like two totallydifferent realities.
So that's kind of what took mehere was I needed to start
dealing with my shit basically.
Because I kind of had thisintuitive feeling like if I
don't do something, I remembermy heart was just like aching.
And I felt like if I didn't dosomething that I would end up
(08:09):
having heart issues or having aheart attack.
So I reached out to a familyfriend who did breath work and
does intuitive healing and thatjust like completely changed.
shifted the trajectory of mylife.
I got into doing breath workregularly and I started doing
(08:34):
Reiki because I was having pain.
I still am in a job that doesn'tfeel totally aligned, but at the
time I was experiencing so muchpain through my arms from a
shoulder injury that I just hadto take a break and stop.
And so with that, that's kind ofwhat led me to Reiki.
(08:57):
And after I did the Reiki, thenI was just leaning into what
would be the next best step formy own healing.
And so I joined atrauma-informed breathwork
facilitation program just tofurther my own healing, not
knowing what I was getting intoor what I was signing up for.
I just signed up for it, made abig investment.
(09:19):
And then I got in there and itwas, we did all this training,
but but we also had to dopracticums.
So I had to start getting all ofmy own clients and breathing
people every day and that waswhen I really realized that I
could translate the work that Iwas doing for myself into the
collective and into my communityso as soon as I graduated I
(09:42):
immediately started offering myservices and then I was able to
integrate the Reiki as well andsince then I've started
incorporating other modalities Ihave a big background in
movement so I startedincorporating movement and I
started incorporating soundhealing and ceremonial cacao and
(10:04):
then the last year I I felt verycalled to join a program working
with a female physiologist whoreally opened the door for me to
do more womb work and I've justbeen kind of integrating that
now into my life for myself butalso into my offerings because I
(10:26):
know there's so much embodiedwisdom to share.
So that's kind of how I got intoit.
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (10:34):
And I mean, so many practitioners talk about coming
into helping and healing work.
because of their own journey.
Like I would say it's in thetop, I'm going to say top two
reasons why folks become birthworkers is they have or witness
a really empowering, incrediblebirth, or more often, sadly,
they have or witness birthtrauma or a bullshit birth that
(10:57):
left folks, you know, in somekind of state of crisis.
And so, you know, I love that itbecame such a personal thing for
you.
And then you're like, onceyou've got that sorted, you
started sharing this gift.
So as anybody who's beenlistening for the last three
weeks to the podcast, I havebeen talking about Jillian in
(11:18):
every of my episodes, every oneof them, about how just profound
breathwork being integrated intomy work.
So I've had a Jillian shout outevery week.
So I thought it would be just sogreat for us to look at
breathwork and how it cansupport our womb health because
(11:39):
we're in constant struggle withour wombs and it's showing with
how unwell.
And this is by design, y'all.
I know I talk about this all thetime, but this is by design to
have us really disconnect fromour power source for those folks
with wombs and internal sexorgans.
One of the things I love is thename of your business, which is
(12:02):
Exploring Embodiment.
And I'm curious, what does thatmean to you?
Why is this like a radical act,especially for women and gender
expansive folks with a uterus?
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
I love that.
And I think it even connectsback to what you're saying
before, is a lot of us have thisembodied experience of something
that leads us to this.
So...
Exploring is, for me, it's allabout curiosity.
Curiosity has been a reallypowerful tool in my own healing.
(12:37):
I think a big part of it is whenwe first start going into the
body, when we first start beingwith ourselves, there can be a
lot of shame and judgment.
And for me, curiosity was areally, really beautiful tool to
help get through that.
some of the the shame and thejudgment and to just go in with
(13:02):
this like childlike wonder thiscuriosity about why we are the
way that we are, why we havethese patterns, why our body
responds in these ways.
So exploring for me, that's kindof the reason.
It's this exploratory process.
I'm still doing all of my workalongside all of the people that
(13:24):
I'm working with.
So it's also very much a part ofmy own practice.
And then embodiment, gettinginto the body, working with the
body, and...
The reason that I feel this isso important is because, like
you said, systematically, we aredisembodied.
And I personally believe thatthe reason that we are so
(13:46):
disembodied, the reason that thesystems and the powers at be
have us in a disembodied stateis because the body gives us
access to the soul.
And so if...
If we're disconnected from ourbody, we're disconnected from
our soul.
Once we all come back into aplace of empowerment, of being
(14:06):
in our bodies and connected toour intuition and to our soul,
we're gonna create so much magicand new systems in the world
where all of the old stuff iskind of going to become obsolete
because it's created from aplace of disembodiment.
So that's kind of why I I workedwith those two words.
(14:29):
I also really just lovealliteration.
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
I
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
know, right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:32):
Hear, hear.
So
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
those are the words that kept coming to me.
I remember going on hikes andthinking about the words, just
brainstorming with some of mygirlfriends.
And these two words just keptcoming up.
So it seemed fitting.
SPEAKER_02 (14:48):
I love that.
And I think it is...
I mean, the fracture from ourintuition is such...
Like, we have...
external forces have ultimatecontrol over us.
We're at the whim of mood andeconomic political environmental
whims like we're just like kindof getting smashed along I'm
(15:09):
waving from side to side becausethat's the only way I can like
like seaweed kind of this um andyou know when we're talking
about birth work or even justlike body autonomy um trusting
our intuition is so critical butif we don't if it's been severed
and we don't even know what thatvoice sounds like um it's so
hard.
(15:29):
We think we're making a bodychoice, but it's really like a
head choice or a coercion choiceor a stress response or a
reaction instead of a response.
So I think I just love yourwork.
I adore you.
I want to ask you about thisidea of living with soft edges
(15:49):
that you have, which I think isjust a really cool quote.
It's on your website, which Ijust loved.
What does that look like to youwhen you think about that?
Especially when we're thinkingabout our intuition and just
kind of like, I'm making againthis breathing hand motion.
Yeah.
(16:09):
And does it tie intoreproductive health or is this
just like as a generalexistence?
SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
I mean, when I think of the edges, I kind of come
back to the concept of ourwindow of tolerance, we all have
a space with which we canfunction in, which for many of
us who have experienced trauma,that window of tolerance can get
(16:41):
very small where we are veryeasily shifted out of that up
into like anxiety, depression,or up into anxiety, sorry, and
then or down into like apathydepression so when we work with
finding our edges and softeningthose edges it helps us to
(17:05):
expand our window of capacitybecause there are some practices
where they essentially get youto blow through our edges which
we can have very transformativein the moment experiences, but
we cannot integrate them intoour daily lives.
(17:28):
And so when we kind of approachthose edges with a softness,
with a gentleness, it allows usto slowly dissolve.
I'm like trickling my fingers.
I'm a bit French, so I speakwith my hands.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
We really should have filmed this one.
We should have made a video.
We're just like gesturing andmoving on the floor here.
SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
You know, it allows us to start to dissolve those
edges Yes.
and expand our capacity forlife, which is so beautiful
because when we expand ourcapacity to feel more, it's not
just that we're able to feelmore, say, anger or emotions
(18:16):
that typically we wouldn't haveallowed ourselves to feel, but
it also allows us to experiencemore bliss and joy and freedom.
So kind of the window opens inall directions.
So now we get to experience lifewith more zest Yeah, more depth
and dimension.
SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
I love the window of tolerance.
We talk about the like hyper andhypo arousal states.
Anybody in your MSP right now,this is what we've been covering
with mindful care, mindfulpractitioners, mindful patients.
And so I love that you tied thatin.
It's very timely because we justtaught them all of that last
week.
(18:54):
So many of us are taught torelate to our room with shame.
And this is kind of a continuum.
of the conversation I had withAnna from Sacred Birth
International of this like, youknow, shame and fear and
disgust, which is usually partof that first journey into our
first bleed and that like reallymassive life change.
(19:18):
So if anyone wants to deep diveon this topic as well, listen to
the previous episode talkingabout this with Anna.
And so what do you notice inyour own practice about how
people carry these culturalmessages about their
reproductive body?
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Oh my goodness.
It seems to be very widespread,right?
Because like you said, it'scultural.
So we have this shame around theactual physical aspects of it.
We have the shame around bleedsbeing dirty and we need to hide
(19:54):
our tampons and our sleevesbecause people can't know that
we're bleeding.
But I think there's alsosomething that connects to the
body in the sense that we learnin our culture and the
expectations of our culture isthat we are supposed to perform
the same way regardless of wherewe are in our cycle, regardless
(20:16):
of how we feel.
Don't get me started, Jillian.
Right?
There's these expectations.
And then the issue with that isif we're not connected to our
cyclical nature and realizingthat, oh, okay, we actually do
have these cycles and we're notmeant...
to perform the same way in thatsomeone who was born a man, That
(20:40):
is a 24-hour cycle.
So a system that is created bymen for men does not work for
women.
But if we start to apply theseand we don't know our own
cyclical nature, we can start toshame ourselves for not being
good enough.
Like, oh, well, today I'm tired,but I have to still do it.
And then we start to hate ourbodies.
(21:01):
We start to hate our womb.
We start to have...
Resentment.
Resentment towards our bleed andour womb and...
Like look at all the women'shealth issues that we have now.
It's all a sign of us being sodisconnected from the truth.
So disconnected from our bodies.
So disconnected from ourcyclical nature.
(21:23):
And so that is what I see when Iwork with people and we breathe
into the womb.
There's so much shame andresentment there.
towards their bodies in thecycle or they think well it's
just a baby maker and other thanthat it's super fucking
(21:43):
inconvenient am I allowed tocurse on this oh my god have you
met me
SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
yes in fact at the beginning of every episode I do
a whole paragraph about like putyour headphones in y'all because
we talked dirty okay cool yeahno it's um to share because i
promised throughout my chat withgillian i would share some of my
own breathwork experience and iwas feeling like such a strong
(22:11):
presence i call it my ghost wombbecause she's gone but i still
carry the power of her andenergetics and even though that
was not my intention likebecause i've gotten mostly right
with her for being like i'mreally sorry i let The system,
take you from me.
But I was shocked that in myfirst session, halfway through,
(22:33):
that every bit of energy feltlike it was an epicenter from my
womb.
And it wasn't even directingenergy there or consciously
trying to breathe into the area.
And it was just this hot ball ofgold in my...
womb area like a below my bellybutton and it was so powerful
(22:57):
and like how quickly in mysecond session with you that it
was like automatically like mywomb and my hands both started
like they ignited kind of likeas soon as my breathing started
and I say this to everybody herebecause if anybody wants to
explore breathwork not thatyou're going to have obviously
the same experience as me andyou're not going to have the
same practitioner wherever youare in the world but I was so
(23:20):
excited like how autonomic italmost was to once you drop in
and like start kind ofintentionally and powerfully
breathing that it immediatelykind of like ignited the center
of my woman-ness and however youwant to identify with your womb
(23:40):
space.
So I just thought that wasreally cool how it was just like
such a passive thing That's thewrong word.
You know what I'm talking about,though.
SPEAKER_01 (23:48):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
SPEAKER_02 (23:49):
Like, it just, like, they came, like, so linked as
soon as I was doing somethingprofound and intentional.
And I didn't have to be like,all right, now let's give some
love to Ghost Womb.
She was like, bitch, I'm here.
Thank you for breathing.
SPEAKER_01 (24:05):
That's so cool.
And you know what may not be thesame for everyone.
Some people, like, you've done alot of work on yourself.
So it might be easier for youto...
tap into that right away,whereas Some others may have a
lot of protection around thewomb.
So it might be a little bitharder to connect with and
(24:27):
access that because there's alot of layers in the body, a lot
of ways that we've learned toprotect our womb.
SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
Yeah.
And our womb just screams louderand louder.
Like everybody here who has togo through multiple sanitary
products in an hour every periodand their last 14 days and
fibroids.
And firstly, this is not yourfault.
do not hear anything I'm sayingis victim blaming this is the
product of trauma on our bodyand the fact that we're in this
(24:57):
resistance battle and she's justgoing to get louder however your
womb identifies it's just goingto get louder and louder and
louder and that translates asher dis-ease translates to
disease and I just think it's sopowerful.
Grey's friends They all started,like, Gray's always like, oh,
(25:19):
ask my mom if you have somethinggoing wonky with your period or
pain or like you don't know whatto do and I'm always like get
right with her like get rightwith your womb like fall in love
with her fall in love with yourwith your body with your cycle
with this you know whether youchoose to have children or not
like so much of it is we thinkthat it's like about
(25:40):
reproduction and so all theseteens around me are like yeah
but I don't want kids so likewhy can't I just get rid of it
now and how glibly like they'rejust like way waiting for their
hysterectomies.
And, um, it's just such like,that is, I'm like, then you're,
you are always going to strugglewith, with your menstruation.
(26:02):
Like if you hate, if you hatethis part of you, um, or you
find it, um, like that itdoesn't have a function if it's
not going to be housing babiesinstead of like how profoundly
we're connected to theenvironment and the world that
we live in through our cyclesand the seasonal cycles and the
(26:22):
moon cycles.
We're magic.
SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
It's our magic.
Absolutely.
I love how simple that is.
Just get right with your womb.
That's really, really beautiful.
It does make me sad to hear thatthis is the perspective that
you're hearing a lot of peopleof individuals just wanting to
(26:48):
get rid of it because they don'tsee any other use for it.
That's really kind ofheartbreaking to me that It is
so common.
SPEAKER_02 (26:57):
Yeah.
And no surprise, which is why Itry to save as many folks'
uteruses as possible, because nosurprise, the hysterectomy, it
doesn't actually alleviateanything.
My pain stayed the same.
Then now all my organs collapsedinto my pelvic floor.
There's so much.
I actually do free one-on-oneconversations.
(27:20):
If anybody ever...
is like can you tell me abouthysterectomies like the good the
bad and the ugly i'm so happy tojump on a call with you so that
you can make a truly informedchoice because it's a surgery we
minimize and it is a very veryvery big deal and there's lots
of things that people don't knowincluding for example how short
(27:41):
your vagina becomes and ifyou're in a hetero environment
that could be like relationshipdestroying because they cut out
your cervix most of the time andthen cauterize it, which means
you lose significant length.
This dyke didn't really care.
But these are the things that Iwas like, oh, wow, somebody
(28:02):
should definitely tell you thatbefore you have a surgery
because that could really impactyour relationship you have with
your sexual partner.
There's a lot of informedconsent missing from our medical
system.
So much.
For sure.
So much.
So you're doing...
God's work.
This is amazing.
I probably have at least threecalls a month where people are
(28:24):
like, I heard you do this or Iread a blog or you were
interviewed somewhere and yousaid you'll talk for free about
people's uteruses.
I was like, for sure.
My goal is not obviously to talkanybody in or out of a surgery
but I do want you to reallyunderstand that it's the most
common surgery in North America.
(28:45):
The numbers are staggering of Ithink don't quote me because now
I'm mixing up my facts but Ithink one in ten women have a
hysterectomy before they're 40 Ihave to double check that stat
somebody double check and thenwrite to Kelly if that's wrong
fact check all my birth nerdsout there anyway it's very
(29:05):
glibly just like oh we'll justtake it out and it's not it's a
very big deal
SPEAKER_01 (29:10):
yeah because the energetics are still there yeah
if you like energetics is oftenunderlying things that become
physical so if we just cutthings out the energetic root is
still there the unprocessedemotions are still there yeah
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
not
SPEAKER_01 (29:25):
to mention the
SPEAKER_02 (29:25):
endometriosis is still there
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
which is the reason for most people well and how
often do you see people withendometriosis going back again
and again and again for moreremovals they need to remove
more organs they need to cutmore things out yeah so they're
not dealing with the root causeyeah which you know at that
point a lot of people are justso desperate to be out of pain
(29:48):
yeah
SPEAKER_02 (29:49):
and pain is pain is terrible i lived with chronic
pain and through my healing worki would i'm pain free at this
point i mean like i do physicalthings so my body sometimes is
revolts against me
SPEAKER_03 (30:02):
yeah
SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
you're doing your roller derby yeah i hit concrete
at high speed so i have pain buti know why i have that pain yeah
i'm sport injury pain but idon't have chronic pain um and i
existed with chronic pain Um,and so sometimes I find it
irritating when people say that.
So I'm sorry if that made yougrumpy because I know when I've
(30:24):
lived with chronic pain, I waslike, well, I'm really fucking
happy for you.
But I just, I say that because Ididn't have any medical
intervention to deal with mypain.
That was prescription free.
That was like, honestly, justdealing with my shit.
SPEAKER_01 (30:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:37):
Um, okay.
So how can breath work as youknow, speaking about healing,
how can breath work be a tool togently like reconnect with the
womb or the pelvis especiallyfolks who have a history of
trauma or medical harm, becauseI think medical harm does so
much damage that we don't talkabout.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
Well, it's breathing gently into our womb, using...
Using breath patterns like afunctional breath where we're
just breathing in and out of ournose can be really helpful
because that's also going tosupport our nervous system.
But also just Breathing into ourwomb, being present with our
(31:22):
womb, even physically holdingour womb as we do this work and
listening to her.
Listening to the memories, theimages that the womb wants to
show us.
Listening to what she needs andstarting to come back into
relationship because as webreathe and as we stay present,
(31:46):
which many of us, we're so busythat we can't even listen.
So when we start to drop in andwe take that space and we start
to flow the breath into that,not only are we working at like
an emotional level, butphysically we are moving lymph,
(32:06):
we're moving blood flow, we'reopening up space in our fascia
to make more room for the wombto exist.
Culturally, we've beenconditioned a lot of the
clothing is tight and we'reconditioned to hold our bellies
(32:29):
in.
Not this dyke.
If it's not loose with elasticwaist, it doesn't exist in my
closet anymore.
I know, right?
And for me, that's been a bigtransition that I've made too is
getting rid of all of thesetight clothing that's
restricting the movement.
The womb needs space to exist.
(32:49):
And so, Once we start to openthat up, like stop holding our
belly in throughout the day,like not just during breath
work, but during our dailylives, we can start to offer
more space, like let the wombreclaim the space that she
needs.
And
SPEAKER_02 (33:08):
even when like, we're not taught with say even
like, let's go with menstrualpain.
UNKNOWN (33:14):
Um,
SPEAKER_02 (33:14):
I watch again I live I live with a teen and I watch
her like curl into the fetalposition and just get like not
move for the day and just likewrithing again if that feels
comforting and you've got a hotwater bottle and you're liking
it but like it's not providingrelief and it didn't it doesn't
even cross her mind to say likelay on her back in a hip opening
(33:35):
or to like dance or to likestand in the shower and like
sway or like swing her hipswhich we know can dramatically
support sensation management andso like we're we just get like
rigid and more and more liketight and small as we yeah you
know what I mean
SPEAKER_01 (33:56):
oh totally one of the practices that I really like
to do when I'm on my bleed is Ilike to breathe into all of the
different organs so I'll startand I'll breathe into my ovaries
and you can use visualizationsof light going into them
(34:18):
visualizing them expandingfilling with blood even honey
can be really beautiful to workwith almost at a homeopathic
level, calling in the energy ofhoney and expanding, letting
them fill with blood, lettingthem fill with lymph, with
nourishment, and then I'll gointo the uterine tubes.
A lot of times people don't eventhink about the uterine tubes.
(34:41):
And then I'll do the same withthe uterus, with the cervix, and
the whole womb space, the wholepelvis.
And you would be amazed at howmuch pain will subside when you
just offer this intentional,consistent breath and presence
in your body.
SPEAKER_02 (35:01):
Yeah, it's powerful.
And some of the hypnobirthingtechniques are like imagining
your hand has a glove.
I always picture it like asparkly Michael Jackson glove.
you can picture it however youwant.
And then I like run it over theareas that hurt.
Like I still have my ovaries andI can tell which side I ovulate
on.
SPEAKER_01 (35:19):
You're almost doing like a little bit of Reiki.
SPEAKER_02 (35:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, cause that's, there's likea lot of kind of, Reiki-esque
tools in hypnobirthing.
But like, you know, just reallysupporting.
So you're doing it from yourvisualization, you're doing it
from the breath and from theexternal with your hand being
your own healing agent.
It's amazing.
Okay, I just thought of this.
If folks have a history of, say,sexual abuse or incest or, you
(35:46):
know, any kind of sexual trauma,if they jumped into breathwork,
like how much...
I know obviously everyone'sdifferent, but from what you
know of who's providingcertifications and trainings for
folks, how far could abreathwork practitioner take
someone if they're not alsoworking potentially with other
(36:06):
forms of therapy?
I just want to have a littlesafety caveat in here that
SPEAKER_01 (36:10):
just popped in my head.
Yeah, I mean you definitely haveto be careful.
You have to be able to know howto resource safety in your body.
So a breathwork practitionercould teach you how to do that.
So one of the big elements ofbreathwork practice and of
energy alchemy is emotionalbalancing.
(36:32):
So it's important that if you'regoing to breathe into an area of
your body or go into emotionsand trauma in your body, that
you know how to also find safetyin your body so that we can
balance the two.
So that could be just...
noticing as you feel thesensation or the trauma in your
(36:55):
body you could say okay wellwhere can i find safety in my
body And so depending on aperson's trauma, if you do have
the ability to kind of findpockets of safety, you could go
in and work with some type ofsomatic practitioner.
But you definitely want to makesure that you know how to
(37:17):
resource safety in the body.
SPEAKER_02 (37:19):
So if somebody hasn't quite reached that point,
they should probably continuewith some of their other, say,
talk therapy or some other workuntil
SPEAKER_01 (37:25):
they've got to a place?
Well, I would do them at thesame time.
Make sure that you also have aplace to diet.
yeah but then also just beingvery transparent and open with
who you're working with aboutwhere you're at and how how
these things have impacted youwhat your current tolerance is
how how it affects you when yougo into it so that they can have
(37:49):
a more educated perspective andlike well-rounded perspective of
how to support you so when i'mworking with individuals who
have a lot of trauma that's veryheavy and and it takes them like
pretty and like into a lot ofdarkness when they go into it is
(38:14):
i try to i try to make sure thatthe patterns that i'm going to
use the way that we're going tobreathe is very, very
intentional.
So it has to really support thenervous system.
(38:35):
Like I'm not gonna take somebodywho has a lot of unprocessed
sexual trauma into more intensebreath patterns.
It's going to be very, verygentle.
Like maybe where we breathe inthrough the nose and we breathe
out really, really slowly.
Because by lengthening thatexhale, it's going to bring us
(38:55):
into the rest and digest stateof our nervous system.
Whereas somebody like you, forexample, who has more experience
and has the ability to resource,we can go into more activating
breath patterns in your journeybecause I know that you have the
ability to hold that and toresource from within.
So it's really about the breathpatterns that you're using, the
(39:21):
pacing and the depth and the waythat you're breathing and that
can really help.
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
That makes sense.
I just wanted to always offer alittle bit of safety precautions
for folks before they jump intosomething that they may or may
not be ready.
SPEAKER_01 (39:35):
Yeah, and I think a big part of it too is there are
a lot of breathworkpractitioners and not everyone
has done trauma-informedtraining.
So maybe just...
making sure that the person thatyou're working with especially
if you do have a lot ofunprocessed trauma is making
sure that you're working withsomeone who is trained
(39:57):
specifically to work with traumaso that they're not just guiding
you through an activatingholotropic breathwork experience
because that wouldn't besupportive for everyone
SPEAKER_02 (40:09):
yeah That's a good point.
It might
SPEAKER_01 (40:11):
be too much.
SPEAKER_02 (40:12):
Yeah.
What would be a couple questionsthat you would recommend they
ask a practitioner beforeworking with them to draw out
that information withoutnecessarily disclosing their
history of sexual trauma orphysical trauma?
SPEAKER_01 (40:25):
That's a good question.
I would ask what their trainingwas, and it wouldn't hurt to
just ask, do they haveexperience in working with this
particular issue?
I mean, you don't necessarilyhave to out yourself by saying
that, but I do think it'simportant to...
ask directly if they haveexperience with that because if
(40:48):
they don't if they're notcomfortable or maybe they don't
have their own embodiedexperience or experience in
working with somebody else theyjust may not be in a position to
hold you through that experience
SPEAKER_02 (41:01):
yeah also check out how they talk and like what they
post about on their social mediacheck out their websites um like
for example if somebody has saidone time on their site that they
work with um like celebratingall bodies but you go through
their channel and everything islike thin and able-bodied then
they're probably not going to beable to support you if you say
(41:23):
live with a disability or livein a bigger body and so like
people will tell you more aboutthemselves and what they you
know the representation of theinformation that they're sharing
so if they don't share usingtrauma-informed language or
trauma-informed issues that'sthat's also probably yeah
SPEAKER_01 (41:40):
yeah I mean we have to use their own discernment and
kind of feeling it, which Iknow, you know, for everyone,
depending on where you are, youmay, you may not have that level
of discernment yet to kind offeel out someone's energy and
that, but, but yeah, checkingout all of the resources and a
lot of people do offer likecomplimentary calls where you
(42:02):
can feel it out in, in a zoomcall or something like that,
where you can Get a bettersense.
Because a lot of, usually ourbodies know, right?
We get in someone else's energyand we can feel like, is this a
fit or are we like, I'm pushingmy fist together right now.
SPEAKER_02 (42:22):
Another gesture
SPEAKER_01 (42:25):
that I wish you could see.
SPEAKER_02 (42:26):
We're signing the whole podcast.
So there you go, y'all.
Oh man.
Could you very briefly walk usthrough a simple breath practice
or visualization that supportshealing or reconnecting with the
womb?
Like so people can like gettheir head around what does this
look like?
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
Do you mean like a guided practice like right now?
Well, you don't have to do it.
Just to explain what you coulddo.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I would go into what Isuggested before about breathing
into the different organs.
And that doesn't matter if youdon't like if you've had any
organs removed that's totallyfine your body still has the
(43:09):
energetic imprint so you canbreathe into it but just
breathing in and out throughonly your nose slowly maybe it's
five or six counts in and outalmost like an ocean breath if
you're familiar with yoga likean ujjayi breath you can have a
(43:30):
little bit of sound to it But asyou breathe in, you wanna
visualize your breath going intoyour organs.
You could do your whole womb atonce, or you could do different
parts of the womb.
But just breathing, sending yourbreath and your intention there,
and then when you exhale,softening the edges.
(43:51):
Because each inhale, we're gonnakind of reach out and feel those
edges, and then we just softenthe edges and let it re-land in
the body.
And how are people, does
SPEAKER_02 (44:03):
it matter the position they are?
Do people benefit more fromlying down?
Props, what could people expect?
SPEAKER_01 (44:13):
Well, you want to be comfortable.
So I would...
use as many props as you need tofeel comfortable.
Laying on your back can be nice,just with your knees up, feet
flat, because then you'resoftening and bringing the
tissues together in the bellyand the womb space where it's
(44:33):
not stretched out, if that makessense.
So that will help to create somemore...
space for movement i guess butreally you can use any like yoga
props any bolsters that help youfeel comfortable the main thing
is you want to be comfortabledoing it some people could even
do it uh almost in a reverseposition, kind of like a puppy
(44:56):
pose, if you think of yogapositions.
And that pose is also reallygood because a lot of us have
retroverted uteruses.
They say it's common, normal,whatever you want to say in the
medical system, but a lot of ouruteruses are completely out of
alignment.
They're back, they're towardsthe rectum, not where they're
(45:19):
supposed to be.
And so sometimes doing thoseinverse positions and just
taking some some breaths andsoftening can support the body
in softening a little bit closerto its natural alignment
SPEAKER_02 (45:34):
yeah your favorite restorative yoga pose man I love
restorative yoga one of ourstudents was a restorative yoga
teacher and so as a thank youafter her graduation she gifted
me four sessions with her manit's like a notch above a nap
but in like the best way like somany props and like so
comfortable um so you know getunder your blanket and lie
(45:56):
somewhere that feels really goodum you don't have to be like
sitting or in kind of like anyyou want to be warm you want to
be warm
SPEAKER_01 (46:04):
and comfortable blanket
SPEAKER_02 (46:05):
yeah yeah um I was laughing to Jillian because my
hands and arms go numb when I dobreath work and I was trying to
pull the blanket up but Icouldn't feel the fabric so I to
just like using my forearms,like drag it up my torso
SPEAKER_01 (46:23):
because I couldn't feel my hands and arms at all.
Yeah, the physical body can kindof dissolve a little bit when
we're doing breath work to whereyou can only feel the energetic.
So using our physical body canbecome very bizarre and we can
feel almost like our...
Like we can't feel our hands orwe can feel them, but we feel
(46:44):
the energy of them.
So we don't actually feel ourfingers.
SPEAKER_02 (46:47):
Yeah.
They were just, they were like,not like they didn't exist.
They were just like a buzzysparkly feeling at the end of my
hand or my arms.
Um, what is something you wishevery doula or body worker or
like helper healer, um, anybodythat's like either has or
supporting folks with a womb,like, what do you want them to
(47:08):
know about the power of breath?
SPEAKER_01 (47:11):
Hmm.
I just want them to use it.
Like our breath is our lifeforce energy.
It's a way to connect in witheverything.
It helps us on a physical level.
It helps us on an emotionallevel, an energetic level, a
spiritual level.
So I think it's just to startusing it.
(47:32):
It's such a powerful tool andit's always available to us.
It's available to everyone.
Like, everyone can breathe.
Well, everyone should bebreathing if we're...
If you're listening, you'rebreathing.
Everyone can breatheintentionally.
UNKNOWN (47:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:51):
And it can be so supportive for anyone doing
birth work and doulas.
I mean, how often do you seepeople in the...
in the birth rooms and they'retrying to use intentional
breathing.
But of course, it works a lotbetter if you practice these
things before.
Practice
SPEAKER_02 (48:08):
makes permanent.
And ironically, ourtraditional...
traditional, not traditional asin like ancestral, but like
what's happening inpractice-based care is the
complete cutting off of thebreath in birth.
So most of the time we're inthese positions that are
scientifically proven, not tomention like lacking safety and
(48:32):
they're uncomfortable, but likethis jamming your knees to your
chest and holding your breathwhile pushing down this Valsalva
maneuver or purple pushing,which we talked about.
talk about, um, it's, you know,the, they say it's 10 seconds,
but they'll like take a deepbreath in.
They're like, okay, mama, push,push one.
That's so good.
Hold that.
(48:52):
Hold that.
Hold that to keep going.
No, no, no.
Three.
And I'm like, yo, we're at 45actual seconds.
And if that birthing personisn't breathing, guess who else
isn't breathing baby.
And so I'm just like, it seemsso counterintuitive to be like,
Stop breathing.
And so, you know, really gettingto know how you feel when you
(49:18):
breathe.
I nudge my friends all the timeand I'm like, you didn't, you're
not breathing.
Like if we're talking or they'refeeling stressed, I'll be like,
yo, I haven't heard you breathenext to me in like 15 seconds.
And they'll be like, oh yeah, Ihave multiple friends.
They're like, oh yeah, I forgot.
I forgot to breathe.
SPEAKER_01 (49:36):
Yeah.
It's so common, right?
And the cool thing about ourbreath is our breath is directly
connected to the way that we'refeeling, to our emotional
experience.
So there are different breathpatterns.
You'll start to notice this ifyou observe yourself throughout
the day, is you breathedifferently through each emotion
(49:56):
that you have.
And so...
By shifting our breath andworking with our breath, we can
alter our experience.
So holding the breath is...
I mean, there are times, asyou've experienced, the breath
holds.
Oh my God, it's so good! Whenthey can be very, very
beautiful.
And I mean, maybe you know moreabout this, but I do feel if we
(50:18):
have to push to that level,level of all of the straining
that you see with traditionalbirth, like maybe we're just not
ready yet for baby to come out.
SPEAKER_02 (50:31):
Yeah, we're supposed to breathe our babies down
because it happens on its own.
Like we don't actually need topush.
SPEAKER_01 (50:37):
Yeah, it's a function, right?
SPEAKER_02 (50:39):
Yeah, folks in a coma will birth a baby.
Wow.
They're just breathing down.
So like you don't even have tobe conscious to...
give birth.
It's an autonomic function andall of our muscle groups work in
unison to continue to contractand then contract that baby
right on out.
And so, yes, of course, all ofit is signs of rushing and
(51:03):
trying to get it over withfaster.
Now, this is something we couldtalk about all day, but I want
people to be able to find youand connect with you.
We're going to have links in theshow notes, but what are some of
the things that people can do inreal life with you as well as
virtually?
SPEAKER_01 (51:21):
Well, I used to do some things virtually and I've
just been having issues withZoom.
So I canceled my Zoomsubscription.
So right now, all of the stuffthat I'm doing is in person in
Annie Ganesh.
I do lots of private breathwork, Reiki treatment, sound
(51:41):
healing, and then we have tonsof community healing.
I really feel like Havingcommunity is what we are
missing.
And it's a really importantpiece to a lot of our healing
journeys to be witnessed andheld in community.
So we do a lot of differentcommunity sessions as well.
(52:04):
And we try to do them in likefun, different ways.
Some of them we incorporateanimals.
So we do Reiki on participantsas they get to hang out and
cuddle puppies or lambs or goatsand, you know, Cute, cute, cute.
Yeah, right?
So it's like healing on so manylevels.
But I do a lot of that and thenI book like private retreats and
(52:28):
that.
Right now I'm not virtual atall.
I won't be in the future.
If
SPEAKER_02 (52:35):
someone wants to fly you to them, will you go?
Probably.
Great.
So if anyone wants to fly her,she's available.
SPEAKER_01 (52:44):
Yeah, I want to go somewhere hot.
SPEAKER_02 (52:47):
So if anyone listening, preferably like maybe
Bali or like I wouldn't be madat Costa
SPEAKER_01 (52:52):
Rica.
Yeah, I would love to.
That is something that I plan todo eventually is...
is traveling and doing retreatsin warm places, going on deep
dive retreats.
Yes, please.
I've signed up already.
SPEAKER_02 (53:08):
I'm number one on your sign-up list.
I'll connect with all the waysthat you can check out Jillian,
and if you guys want to chatwith her, she'll have her
website, her email, and hersocials there.
Highly recommend.
Jillian, thank you for being onthe podcast.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (53:28):
thank you so much for wanting to bring me here.
I didn't know that you talkedabout me on other ones I'm going
to have to go look at them I'mso curious
SPEAKER_02 (53:36):
I always do my like what's happened over the week
and oh okay beautiful yeah andevery time I was like don't
worry she's coming up in a fewweeks it's coming up in an
episode so I highly encourageboth practitioners and folks who
might be going through their ownreproductive journeys right now
(53:56):
see what's available in yourcommunity for breath work and go
interview them so you can havethem on your resource page if
there's somebody you fall inlove with please send them over
to our free doula directory andthose are all practitioners that
doulas have vetted that say likethey're great and it's really
awesome to have just one bigdatabase Jillian I'll have to
(54:19):
make sure you're on it and soyou can always send them over so
that other people that mightlive in I don't know wherever
you are Baltimore or I don'tknow I always pick Baltimore
anywhere in the world They canjoin that free directory there
on the homepage.
Thank you so much, Jillian.
And thank you everyone forlistening.
And I will see you next week inHot and Brave.
SPEAKER_00 (54:45):
Want to keep hanging out?
We have created a free mindsetmini course to help change
makers and birth workers findbliss in their business.
You're not in this alone.
Let's build together.
Head to www.babomia.com slashbib to grab your space and a
free retreat.
(55:06):
Once again, go towww.babomia.com slash bib to
grab your spot.
We will see you next time on theHot and Brave podcast.
You are listening to the Hot and Brave podcast with
Bianca Sprague from Bebo Mia,where you will hear brave
stories, hot topics, and truthbombs that will either light
fire to your rage or be the balmyou need for your soul.
SPEAKER_02 (00:18):
Hey, hey, you're listening to the Hot and Brave
podcast where we talk about themessy, beautiful, ragey, sacred
reality of life in this currentworld.
I'm your host, Bianca Sprague,and I'm so glad you're here.
Before we dive into thispowerful episode with Jillian
Marchand, I've got a few updatesand some real life to share with
you.
(00:38):
Because if we're going to talkabout embodiment, it feels right
to start with what's alive in mybody right now.
So this past weekend, my, Iguess, technically ex-con my
cousin-in-law Ashley she came tovisit me from Toronto and we did
so many magical things includinghaving a lovely session with
(00:59):
Jillian Marchand who is my guesttoday and Ashley and I we you
know explored my little town andshe went to our farmer's market
and on Saturday we drove theCabot Trail together oh my god
when I say it was magic I meanit it was this cold spring air
(01:20):
the roof down on the mustangconvertible she rented uh every
time we took off from a like aphoto spot like a pullover of
which we hit all of them wewould scream mustang the sun was
on our faces a little too muchsun i forgot my sunscreen um and
to be honest my nose gotscorched the birch pollen puffed
(01:44):
my eyes up so i look like oh mygoodness you don't even want to
know I don't even know they werelike on fire but it was so worth
it when we pulled into thedriveway 12 hours later it
looked like we had really beento hell and back even though we
sat in a luxury vehicle drivingbut you know we laughed the
(02:05):
whole time we blasted MustangSally and that was the only song
even though I had great playlistready because we talked about
everything and we watched thecliffs and the ocean blur past I
miss her already and I'm I'mjust really grateful she made
the trip.
Sometimes joy just sneaks up onus like that.
And now some exciting thingshappening here at Bebo Miha.
(02:28):
Early bird registration is nowopen.
I finally got all, all the techchanged over.
Uh, so our maternal supportpractitioner training.
Yep.
That's our full spectrum doulacert program.
Um, it is open for registry, uh,open for registration and, you
can use the code birth bird fora huge savings and it does work
(02:50):
on payment plans.
We get that question all thetime.
And if you've been waiting for asign to start your doula
journey, this is it.
Uh, also next weekend I will bein London Ontario for the
collaborative birth conferenceI'll be speaking there I have a
workshop I'm on a panel it'sgoing to be a really beautiful
gathering and you'll get to seeKelly and I so if you want to be
(03:11):
in London Ontario here is alsoyour sign also if you entered
our giveaway for the freevirtual ticket to attend stay
tuned we're going to beannouncing that winner later
today and Babel Mia is hiring weare building out our grassroots
Roots community-led sales team.
And if you are great atconnecting with folks, good at
(03:32):
sales, passionate about birthjustice and reproductive health,
we want to hear from you.
So shoot us an email at info atbabelmia.com to apply.
And another heads up, ourscholarship program will be
accepting applications in acouple of weeks when I get back
from the conference.
We need a little bit more time,but keep your eye on your inbox
(03:53):
and our socials.
If that's something you'rehoping for, you'll be able to
get that application in.
All right, y'all.
Let's talk about breath, bodies,wombs, and all this goodness.
Today's episode is with theincredible Jillian Marchand, who
I've talked about several times.
Jillian is the founder ofExploring Embodiment, a somatic
(04:14):
healing community where shesupports folks on their
self-healing journeys.
She does, oh my goodness, shecan do so many things.
She's a Reiki master and atrauma-informed breathwork
facilitator.
She does cacao ceremonies whichI think is really cool I haven't
had the chance to do that butI've done her Reiki and her
breath work and her sound bathsand she brings her background in
(04:39):
dance to all of her offeringsshe helps people use movement
breath and sound to shift theirenergy and reconnect with their
inner wisdom and thisconversation is so tender and
important in it we're going tobe talking about cultural
messages that keep so many of usdisconnected from our wombs
shame, disgust, trauma, silenceand how we can use breath work
(05:01):
to come home to ourselves.
It's a really nice follow-up tothe conversation I had with Anna
from Sacred Birth Internationala couple episodes back.
So I would recommend listeningto both of them.
They just build on each other ina really lovely way.
And Jillian shares how breathcan help us regulate differently
to discomfort and how we can bethis really gentle way to meet
(05:24):
the parts of ourselves we'vebeen taught to avoid.
And it kind of creates this pathback to the sacred.
So whether you're a doula, abirth worker, or somebody in a
body who has struggled to feelat home there, this episode is
definitely going to speak toyou.
Grab those headphones, take adeep breath, let's get into it.
Oh yeah, and if this show meanssomething to you, it would mean
(05:44):
so much to me if you could leaveus a review or share it with
someone who needs it.
It helps other folks find us andit keeps these conversations
going.
All right y'all, here's myconversation with Jillian.
Hey y'all, I am so excited aboutthis conversation.
I am currently sitting in acavernous beautiful room, hence
there's a bit of an echo, andJillian and I are staring out
(06:08):
over the ocean that is just likeso stunning.
You should see her beautifulhouse.
I've done such amazingbreathwork with her and after
having two transformativesessions, I had to have her on
the podcast to talk about thisamazing work that she does, that
you do.
I'm like talking to you guys,talking to Jillian Here we are.
(06:28):
Hi, Jillian.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Hi.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
Yeah, I'm excited to be here.
My first podcast ever, so I haveno idea what to expect, but I'm
excited to dive in.
We'll be
SPEAKER_02 (06:40):
gentle.
Honestly, y'all, right now we'relike flopped on the floor
looking at the ocean, hopingthat the sound works out for
everything.
Oh, man.
Okay, well, let's start at thebeginning.
What brought you intobreathwork?
Why did you want to explore thisand the womb space like how did
(07:00):
this all intersect
SPEAKER_01 (07:05):
I mean I think very common to a lot of people who
get into this work is it startswith your own struggles with
your own issues and so for me Itwas probably six or seven years
ago.
Everything was kind of coming toa head.
(07:25):
The stress, all of the thingsthat I was going through.
I was struggling with boundaryissues, with not speaking my
truth, and just feeling like Iwas living different realities
than everyone who was around me.
It was like we weren't...
We weren't really talking aboutthe same things.
My partner and I, we could behaving an argument and we're
(07:48):
both clearly in like two totallydifferent realities.
So that's kind of what took mehere was I needed to start
dealing with my shit basically.
Because I kind of had thisintuitive feeling like if I
don't do something, I remembermy heart was just like aching.
And I felt like if I didn't dosomething that I would end up
(08:09):
having heart issues or having aheart attack.
So I reached out to a familyfriend who did breath work and
does intuitive healing and thatjust like completely changed.
shifted the trajectory of mylife.
I got into doing breath workregularly and I started doing
(08:34):
Reiki because I was having pain.
I still am in a job that doesn'tfeel totally aligned, but at the
time I was experiencing so muchpain through my arms from a
shoulder injury that I just hadto take a break and stop.
And so with that, that's kind ofwhat led me to Reiki.
(08:57):
And after I did the Reiki, thenI was just leaning into what
would be the next best step formy own healing.
And so I joined atrauma-informed breathwork
facilitation program just tofurther my own healing, not
knowing what I was getting intoor what I was signing up for.
I just signed up for it, made abig investment.
(09:19):
And then I got in there and itwas, we did all this training,
but but we also had to dopracticums.
So I had to start getting all ofmy own clients and breathing
people every day and that waswhen I really realized that I
could translate the work that Iwas doing for myself into the
collective and into my communityso as soon as I graduated I
(09:42):
immediately started offering myservices and then I was able to
integrate the Reiki as well andsince then I've started
incorporating other modalities Ihave a big background in
movement so I startedincorporating movement and I
started incorporating soundhealing and ceremonial cacao and
(10:04):
then the last year I I felt verycalled to join a program working
with a female physiologist whoreally opened the door for me to
do more womb work and I've justbeen kind of integrating that
now into my life for myself butalso into my offerings because I
(10:26):
know there's so much embodiedwisdom to share.
So that's kind of how I got intoit.
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (10:34):
And I mean, so many practitioners talk about coming
into helping and healing work.
because of their own journey.
Like I would say it's in thetop, I'm going to say top two
reasons why folks become birthworkers is they have or witness
a really empowering, incrediblebirth, or more often, sadly,
they have or witness birthtrauma or a bullshit birth that
(10:57):
left folks, you know, in somekind of state of crisis.
And so, you know, I love that itbecame such a personal thing for
you.
And then you're like, onceyou've got that sorted, you
started sharing this gift.
So as anybody who's beenlistening for the last three
weeks to the podcast, I havebeen talking about Jillian in
(11:18):
every of my episodes, every oneof them, about how just profound
breathwork being integrated intomy work.
So I've had a Jillian shout outevery week.
So I thought it would be just sogreat for us to look at
breathwork and how it cansupport our womb health because
(11:39):
we're in constant struggle withour wombs and it's showing with
how unwell.
And this is by design, y'all.
I know I talk about this all thetime, but this is by design to
have us really disconnect fromour power source for those folks
with wombs and internal sexorgans.
One of the things I love is thename of your business, which is
(12:02):
Exploring Embodiment.
And I'm curious, what does thatmean to you?
Why is this like a radical act,especially for women and gender
expansive folks with a uterus?
SPEAKER_01 (12:16):
I love that.
And I think it even connectsback to what you're saying
before, is a lot of us have thisembodied experience of something
that leads us to this.
So...
Exploring is, for me, it's allabout curiosity.
Curiosity has been a reallypowerful tool in my own healing.
(12:37):
I think a big part of it is whenwe first start going into the
body, when we first start beingwith ourselves, there can be a
lot of shame and judgment.
And for me, curiosity was areally, really beautiful tool to
help get through that.
some of the the shame and thejudgment and to just go in with
(13:02):
this like childlike wonder thiscuriosity about why we are the
way that we are, why we havethese patterns, why our body
responds in these ways.
So exploring for me, that's kindof the reason.
It's this exploratory process.
I'm still doing all of my workalongside all of the people that
(13:24):
I'm working with.
So it's also very much a part ofmy own practice.
And then embodiment, gettinginto the body, working with the
body, and...
The reason that I feel this isso important is because, like
you said, systematically, we aredisembodied.
And I personally believe thatthe reason that we are so
(13:46):
disembodied, the reason that thesystems and the powers at be
have us in a disembodied stateis because the body gives us
access to the soul.
And so if...
If we're disconnected from ourbody, we're disconnected from
our soul.
Once we all come back into aplace of empowerment, of being
(14:06):
in our bodies and connected toour intuition and to our soul,
we're gonna create so much magicand new systems in the world
where all of the old stuff iskind of going to become obsolete
because it's created from aplace of disembodiment.
So that's kind of why I I workedwith those two words.
(14:29):
I also really just lovealliteration.
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
I
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
know, right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:32):
Hear, hear.
So
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
those are the words that kept coming to me.
I remember going on hikes andthinking about the words, just
brainstorming with some of mygirlfriends.
And these two words just keptcoming up.
So it seemed fitting.
SPEAKER_02 (14:48):
I love that.
And I think it is...
I mean, the fracture from ourintuition is such...
Like, we have...
external forces have ultimatecontrol over us.
We're at the whim of mood andeconomic political environmental
whims like we're just like kindof getting smashed along I'm
(15:09):
waving from side to side becausethat's the only way I can like
like seaweed kind of this um andyou know when we're talking
about birth work or even justlike body autonomy um trusting
our intuition is so critical butif we don't if it's been severed
and we don't even know what thatvoice sounds like um it's so
hard.
(15:29):
We think we're making a bodychoice, but it's really like a
head choice or a coercion choiceor a stress response or a
reaction instead of a response.
So I think I just love yourwork.
I adore you.
I want to ask you about thisidea of living with soft edges
(15:49):
that you have, which I think isjust a really cool quote.
It's on your website, which Ijust loved.
What does that look like to youwhen you think about that?
Especially when we're thinkingabout our intuition and just
kind of like, I'm making againthis breathing hand motion.
Yeah.
(16:09):
And does it tie intoreproductive health or is this
just like as a generalexistence?
SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
I mean, when I think of the edges, I kind of come
back to the concept of ourwindow of tolerance, we all have
a space with which we canfunction in, which for many of
us who have experienced trauma,that window of tolerance can get
(16:41):
very small where we are veryeasily shifted out of that up
into like anxiety, depression,or up into anxiety, sorry, and
then or down into like apathydepression so when we work with
finding our edges and softeningthose edges it helps us to
(17:05):
expand our window of capacitybecause there are some practices
where they essentially get youto blow through our edges which
we can have very transformativein the moment experiences, but
we cannot integrate them intoour daily lives.
(17:28):
And so when we kind of approachthose edges with a softness,
with a gentleness, it allows usto slowly dissolve.
I'm like trickling my fingers.
I'm a bit French, so I speakwith my hands.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
We really should have filmed this one.
We should have made a video.
We're just like gesturing andmoving on the floor here.
SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
You know, it allows us to start to dissolve those
edges Yes.
and expand our capacity forlife, which is so beautiful
because when we expand ourcapacity to feel more, it's not
just that we're able to feelmore, say, anger or emotions
(18:16):
that typically we wouldn't haveallowed ourselves to feel, but
it also allows us to experiencemore bliss and joy and freedom.
So kind of the window opens inall directions.
So now we get to experience lifewith more zest Yeah, more depth
and dimension.
SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
I love the window of tolerance.
We talk about the like hyper andhypo arousal states.
Anybody in your MSP right now,this is what we've been covering
with mindful care, mindfulpractitioners, mindful patients.
And so I love that you tied thatin.
It's very timely because we justtaught them all of that last
week.
(18:54):
So many of us are taught torelate to our room with shame.
And this is kind of a continuum.
of the conversation I had withAnna from Sacred Birth
International of this like, youknow, shame and fear and
disgust, which is usually partof that first journey into our
first bleed and that like reallymassive life change.
(19:18):
So if anyone wants to deep diveon this topic as well, listen to
the previous episode talkingabout this with Anna.
And so what do you notice inyour own practice about how
people carry these culturalmessages about their
reproductive body?
SPEAKER_01 (19:34):
Oh my goodness.
It seems to be very widespread,right?
Because like you said, it'scultural.
So we have this shame around theactual physical aspects of it.
We have the shame around bleedsbeing dirty and we need to hide
(19:54):
our tampons and our sleevesbecause people can't know that
we're bleeding.
But I think there's alsosomething that connects to the
body in the sense that we learnin our culture and the
expectations of our culture isthat we are supposed to perform
the same way regardless of wherewe are in our cycle, regardless
(20:16):
of how we feel.
Don't get me started, Jillian.
Right?
There's these expectations.
And then the issue with that isif we're not connected to our
cyclical nature and realizingthat, oh, okay, we actually do
have these cycles and we're notmeant...
to perform the same way in thatsomeone who was born a man, That
(20:40):
is a 24-hour cycle.
So a system that is created bymen for men does not work for
women.
But if we start to apply theseand we don't know our own
cyclical nature, we can start toshame ourselves for not being
good enough.
Like, oh, well, today I'm tired,but I have to still do it.
And then we start to hate ourbodies.
(21:01):
We start to hate our womb.
We start to have...
Resentment.
Resentment towards our bleed andour womb and...
Like look at all the women'shealth issues that we have now.
It's all a sign of us being sodisconnected from the truth.
So disconnected from our bodies.
So disconnected from ourcyclical nature.
(21:23):
And so that is what I see when Iwork with people and we breathe
into the womb.
There's so much shame andresentment there.
towards their bodies in thecycle or they think well it's
just a baby maker and other thanthat it's super fucking
(21:43):
inconvenient am I allowed tocurse on this oh my god have you
met me
SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
yes in fact at the beginning of every episode I do
a whole paragraph about like putyour headphones in y'all because
we talked dirty okay cool yeahno it's um to share because i
promised throughout my chat withgillian i would share some of my
own breathwork experience and iwas feeling like such a strong
(22:11):
presence i call it my ghost wombbecause she's gone but i still
carry the power of her andenergetics and even though that
was not my intention likebecause i've gotten mostly right
with her for being like i'mreally sorry i let The system,
take you from me.
But I was shocked that in myfirst session, halfway through,
(22:33):
that every bit of energy feltlike it was an epicenter from my
womb.
And it wasn't even directingenergy there or consciously
trying to breathe into the area.
And it was just this hot ball ofgold in my...
womb area like a below my bellybutton and it was so powerful
(22:57):
and like how quickly in mysecond session with you that it
was like automatically like mywomb and my hands both started
like they ignited kind of likeas soon as my breathing started
and I say this to everybody herebecause if anybody wants to
explore breathwork not thatyou're going to have obviously
the same experience as me andyou're not going to have the
same practitioner wherever youare in the world but I was so
(23:20):
excited like how autonomic italmost was to once you drop in
and like start kind ofintentionally and powerfully
breathing that it immediatelykind of like ignited the center
of my woman-ness and however youwant to identify with your womb
(23:40):
space.
So I just thought that wasreally cool how it was just like
such a passive thing That's thewrong word.
You know what I'm talking about,though.
SPEAKER_01 (23:48):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
SPEAKER_02 (23:49):
Like, it just, like, they came, like, so linked as
soon as I was doing somethingprofound and intentional.
And I didn't have to be like,all right, now let's give some
love to Ghost Womb.
She was like, bitch, I'm here.
Thank you for breathing.
SPEAKER_01 (24:05):
That's so cool.
And you know what may not be thesame for everyone.
Some people, like, you've done alot of work on yourself.
So it might be easier for youto...
tap into that right away,whereas Some others may have a
lot of protection around thewomb.
So it might be a little bitharder to connect with and
(24:27):
access that because there's alot of layers in the body, a lot
of ways that we've learned toprotect our womb.
SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
Yeah.
And our womb just screams louderand louder.
Like everybody here who has togo through multiple sanitary
products in an hour every periodand their last 14 days and
fibroids.
And firstly, this is not yourfault.
do not hear anything I'm sayingis victim blaming this is the
product of trauma on our bodyand the fact that we're in this
(24:57):
resistance battle and she's justgoing to get louder however your
womb identifies it's just goingto get louder and louder and
louder and that translates asher dis-ease translates to
disease and I just think it's sopowerful.
Grey's friends They all started,like, Gray's always like, oh,
(25:19):
ask my mom if you have somethinggoing wonky with your period or
pain or like you don't know whatto do and I'm always like get
right with her like get rightwith your womb like fall in love
with her fall in love with yourwith your body with your cycle
with this you know whether youchoose to have children or not
like so much of it is we thinkthat it's like about
(25:40):
reproduction and so all theseteens around me are like yeah
but I don't want kids so likewhy can't I just get rid of it
now and how glibly like they'rejust like way waiting for their
hysterectomies.
And, um, it's just such like,that is, I'm like, then you're,
you are always going to strugglewith, with your menstruation.
(26:02):
Like if you hate, if you hatethis part of you, um, or you
find it, um, like that itdoesn't have a function if it's
not going to be housing babiesinstead of like how profoundly
we're connected to theenvironment and the world that
we live in through our cyclesand the seasonal cycles and the
(26:22):
moon cycles.
We're magic.
SPEAKER_01 (26:26):
It's our magic.
Absolutely.
I love how simple that is.
Just get right with your womb.
That's really, really beautiful.
It does make me sad to hear thatthis is the perspective that
you're hearing a lot of peopleof individuals just wanting to
(26:48):
get rid of it because they don'tsee any other use for it.
That's really kind ofheartbreaking to me that It is
so common.
SPEAKER_02 (26:57):
Yeah.
And no surprise, which is why Itry to save as many folks'
uteruses as possible, because nosurprise, the hysterectomy, it
doesn't actually alleviateanything.
My pain stayed the same.
Then now all my organs collapsedinto my pelvic floor.
There's so much.
I actually do free one-on-oneconversations.
(27:20):
If anybody ever...
is like can you tell me abouthysterectomies like the good the
bad and the ugly i'm so happy tojump on a call with you so that
you can make a truly informedchoice because it's a surgery we
minimize and it is a very veryvery big deal and there's lots
of things that people don't knowincluding for example how short
(27:41):
your vagina becomes and ifyou're in a hetero environment
that could be like relationshipdestroying because they cut out
your cervix most of the time andthen cauterize it, which means
you lose significant length.
This dyke didn't really care.
But these are the things that Iwas like, oh, wow, somebody
(28:02):
should definitely tell you thatbefore you have a surgery
because that could really impactyour relationship you have with
your sexual partner.
There's a lot of informedconsent missing from our medical
system.
So much.
For sure.
So much.
So you're doing...
God's work.
This is amazing.
I probably have at least threecalls a month where people are
(28:24):
like, I heard you do this or Iread a blog or you were
interviewed somewhere and yousaid you'll talk for free about
people's uteruses.
I was like, for sure.
My goal is not obviously to talkanybody in or out of a surgery
but I do want you to reallyunderstand that it's the most
common surgery in North America.
(28:45):
The numbers are staggering of Ithink don't quote me because now
I'm mixing up my facts but Ithink one in ten women have a
hysterectomy before they're 40 Ihave to double check that stat
somebody double check and thenwrite to Kelly if that's wrong
fact check all my birth nerdsout there anyway it's very
(29:05):
glibly just like oh we'll justtake it out and it's not it's a
very big deal
SPEAKER_01 (29:10):
yeah because the energetics are still there yeah
if you like energetics is oftenunderlying things that become
physical so if we just cutthings out the energetic root is
still there the unprocessedemotions are still there yeah
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
not
SPEAKER_01 (29:25):
to mention the
SPEAKER_02 (29:25):
endometriosis is still there
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
which is the reason for most people well and how
often do you see people withendometriosis going back again
and again and again for moreremovals they need to remove
more organs they need to cutmore things out yeah so they're
not dealing with the root causeyeah which you know at that
point a lot of people are justso desperate to be out of pain
(29:48):
yeah
SPEAKER_02 (29:49):
and pain is pain is terrible i lived with chronic
pain and through my healing worki would i'm pain free at this
point i mean like i do physicalthings so my body sometimes is
revolts against me
SPEAKER_03 (30:02):
yeah
SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
you're doing your roller derby yeah i hit concrete
at high speed so i have pain buti know why i have that pain yeah
i'm sport injury pain but idon't have chronic pain um and i
existed with chronic pain Um,and so sometimes I find it
irritating when people say that.
So I'm sorry if that made yougrumpy because I know when I've
(30:24):
lived with chronic pain, I waslike, well, I'm really fucking
happy for you.
But I just, I say that because Ididn't have any medical
intervention to deal with mypain.
That was prescription free.
That was like, honestly, justdealing with my shit.
SPEAKER_01 (30:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:37):
Um, okay.
So how can breath work as youknow, speaking about healing,
how can breath work be a tool togently like reconnect with the
womb or the pelvis especiallyfolks who have a history of
trauma or medical harm, becauseI think medical harm does so
much damage that we don't talkabout.
SPEAKER_01 (30:58):
Well, it's breathing gently into our womb, using...
Using breath patterns like afunctional breath where we're
just breathing in and out of ournose can be really helpful
because that's also going tosupport our nervous system.
But also just Breathing into ourwomb, being present with our
(31:22):
womb, even physically holdingour womb as we do this work and
listening to her.
Listening to the memories, theimages that the womb wants to
show us.
Listening to what she needs andstarting to come back into
relationship because as webreathe and as we stay present,
(31:46):
which many of us, we're so busythat we can't even listen.
So when we start to drop in andwe take that space and we start
to flow the breath into that,not only are we working at like
an emotional level, butphysically we are moving lymph,
(32:06):
we're moving blood flow, we'reopening up space in our fascia
to make more room for the wombto exist.
Culturally, we've beenconditioned a lot of the
clothing is tight and we'reconditioned to hold our bellies
(32:29):
in.
Not this dyke.
If it's not loose with elasticwaist, it doesn't exist in my
closet anymore.
I know, right?
And for me, that's been a bigtransition that I've made too is
getting rid of all of thesetight clothing that's
restricting the movement.
The womb needs space to exist.
(32:49):
And so, Once we start to openthat up, like stop holding our
belly in throughout the day,like not just during breath
work, but during our dailylives, we can start to offer
more space, like let the wombreclaim the space that she
needs.
And
SPEAKER_02 (33:08):
even when like, we're not taught with say even
like, let's go with menstrualpain.
UNKNOWN (33:14):
Um,
SPEAKER_02 (33:14):
I watch again I live I live with a teen and I watch
her like curl into the fetalposition and just get like not
move for the day and just likewrithing again if that feels
comforting and you've got a hotwater bottle and you're liking
it but like it's not providingrelief and it didn't it doesn't
even cross her mind to say likelay on her back in a hip opening
(33:35):
or to like dance or to likestand in the shower and like
sway or like swing her hipswhich we know can dramatically
support sensation management andso like we're we just get like
rigid and more and more liketight and small as we yeah you
know what I mean
SPEAKER_01 (33:56):
oh totally one of the practices that I really like
to do when I'm on my bleed is Ilike to breathe into all of the
different organs so I'll startand I'll breathe into my ovaries
and you can use visualizationsof light going into them
(34:18):
visualizing them expandingfilling with blood even honey
can be really beautiful to workwith almost at a homeopathic
level, calling in the energy ofhoney and expanding, letting
them fill with blood, lettingthem fill with lymph, with
nourishment, and then I'll gointo the uterine tubes.
A lot of times people don't eventhink about the uterine tubes.
(34:41):
And then I'll do the same withthe uterus, with the cervix, and
the whole womb space, the wholepelvis.
And you would be amazed at howmuch pain will subside when you
just offer this intentional,consistent breath and presence
in your body.
SPEAKER_02 (35:01):
Yeah, it's powerful.
And some of the hypnobirthingtechniques are like imagining
your hand has a glove.
I always picture it like asparkly Michael Jackson glove.
you can picture it however youwant.
And then I like run it over theareas that hurt.
Like I still have my ovaries andI can tell which side I ovulate
on.
SPEAKER_01 (35:19):
You're almost doing like a little bit of Reiki.
SPEAKER_02 (35:21):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, cause that's, there's likea lot of kind of, Reiki-esque
tools in hypnobirthing.
But like, you know, just reallysupporting.
So you're doing it from yourvisualization, you're doing it
from the breath and from theexternal with your hand being
your own healing agent.
It's amazing.
Okay, I just thought of this.
If folks have a history of, say,sexual abuse or incest or, you
(35:46):
know, any kind of sexual trauma,if they jumped into breathwork,
like how much...
I know obviously everyone'sdifferent, but from what you
know of who's providingcertifications and trainings for
folks, how far could abreathwork practitioner take
someone if they're not alsoworking potentially with other
(36:06):
forms of therapy?
I just want to have a littlesafety caveat in here that
SPEAKER_01 (36:10):
just popped in my head.
Yeah, I mean you definitely haveto be careful.
You have to be able to know howto resource safety in your body.
So a breathwork practitionercould teach you how to do that.
So one of the big elements ofbreathwork practice and of
energy alchemy is emotionalbalancing.
(36:32):
So it's important that if you'regoing to breathe into an area of
your body or go into emotionsand trauma in your body, that
you know how to also find safetyin your body so that we can
balance the two.
So that could be just...
noticing as you feel thesensation or the trauma in your
(36:55):
body you could say okay wellwhere can i find safety in my
body And so depending on aperson's trauma, if you do have
the ability to kind of findpockets of safety, you could go
in and work with some type ofsomatic practitioner.
But you definitely want to makesure that you know how to
(37:17):
resource safety in the body.
SPEAKER_02 (37:19):
So if somebody hasn't quite reached that point,
they should probably continuewith some of their other, say,
talk therapy or some other workuntil
SPEAKER_01 (37:25):
they've got to a place?
Well, I would do them at thesame time.
Make sure that you also have aplace to diet.
yeah but then also just beingvery transparent and open with
who you're working with aboutwhere you're at and how how
these things have impacted youwhat your current tolerance is
how how it affects you when yougo into it so that they can have
(37:49):
a more educated perspective andlike well-rounded perspective of
how to support you so when i'mworking with individuals who
have a lot of trauma that's veryheavy and and it takes them like
pretty and like into a lot ofdarkness when they go into it is
(38:14):
i try to i try to make sure thatthe patterns that i'm going to
use the way that we're going tobreathe is very, very
intentional.
So it has to really support thenervous system.
(38:35):
Like I'm not gonna take somebodywho has a lot of unprocessed
sexual trauma into more intensebreath patterns.
It's going to be very, verygentle.
Like maybe where we breathe inthrough the nose and we breathe
out really, really slowly.
Because by lengthening thatexhale, it's going to bring us
(38:55):
into the rest and digest stateof our nervous system.
Whereas somebody like you, forexample, who has more experience
and has the ability to resource,we can go into more activating
breath patterns in your journeybecause I know that you have the
ability to hold that and toresource from within.
So it's really about the breathpatterns that you're using, the
(39:21):
pacing and the depth and the waythat you're breathing and that
can really help.
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
That makes sense.
I just wanted to always offer alittle bit of safety precautions
for folks before they jump intosomething that they may or may
not be ready.
SPEAKER_01 (39:35):
Yeah, and I think a big part of it too is there are
a lot of breathworkpractitioners and not everyone
has done trauma-informedtraining.
So maybe just...
making sure that the person thatyou're working with especially
if you do have a lot ofunprocessed trauma is making
sure that you're working withsomeone who is trained
(39:57):
specifically to work with traumaso that they're not just guiding
you through an activatingholotropic breathwork experience
because that wouldn't besupportive for everyone
SPEAKER_02 (40:09):
yeah That's a good point.
It might
SPEAKER_01 (40:11):
be too much.
SPEAKER_02 (40:12):
Yeah.
What would be a couple questionsthat you would recommend they
ask a practitioner beforeworking with them to draw out
that information withoutnecessarily disclosing their
history of sexual trauma orphysical trauma?
SPEAKER_01 (40:25):
That's a good question.
I would ask what their trainingwas, and it wouldn't hurt to
just ask, do they haveexperience in working with this
particular issue?
I mean, you don't necessarilyhave to out yourself by saying
that, but I do think it'simportant to...
ask directly if they haveexperience with that because if
(40:48):
they don't if they're notcomfortable or maybe they don't
have their own embodiedexperience or experience in
working with somebody else theyjust may not be in a position to
hold you through that experience
SPEAKER_02 (41:01):
yeah also check out how they talk and like what they
post about on their social mediacheck out their websites um like
for example if somebody has saidone time on their site that they
work with um like celebratingall bodies but you go through
their channel and everything islike thin and able-bodied then
they're probably not going to beable to support you if you say
(41:23):
live with a disability or livein a bigger body and so like
people will tell you more aboutthemselves and what they you
know the representation of theinformation that they're sharing
so if they don't share usingtrauma-informed language or
trauma-informed issues that'sthat's also probably yeah
SPEAKER_01 (41:40):
yeah I mean we have to use their own discernment and
kind of feeling it, which Iknow, you know, for everyone,
depending on where you are, youmay, you may not have that level
of discernment yet to kind offeel out someone's energy and
that, but, but yeah, checkingout all of the resources and a
lot of people do offer likecomplimentary calls where you
(42:02):
can feel it out in, in a zoomcall or something like that,
where you can Get a bettersense.
Because a lot of, usually ourbodies know, right?
We get in someone else's energyand we can feel like, is this a
fit or are we like, I'm pushingmy fist together right now.
SPEAKER_02 (42:22):
Another gesture
SPEAKER_01 (42:25):
that I wish you could see.
SPEAKER_02 (42:26):
We're signing the whole podcast.
So there you go, y'all.
Oh man.
Could you very briefly walk usthrough a simple breath practice
or visualization that supportshealing or reconnecting with the
womb?
Like so people can like gettheir head around what does this
look like?
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
Do you mean like a guided practice like right now?
Well, you don't have to do it.
Just to explain what you coulddo.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I would go into what Isuggested before about breathing
into the different organs.
And that doesn't matter if youdon't like if you've had any
organs removed that's totallyfine your body still has the
(43:09):
energetic imprint so you canbreathe into it but just
breathing in and out throughonly your nose slowly maybe it's
five or six counts in and outalmost like an ocean breath if
you're familiar with yoga likean ujjayi breath you can have a
(43:30):
little bit of sound to it But asyou breathe in, you wanna
visualize your breath going intoyour organs.
You could do your whole womb atonce, or you could do different
parts of the womb.
But just breathing, sending yourbreath and your intention there,
and then when you exhale,softening the edges.
(43:51):
Because each inhale, we're gonnakind of reach out and feel those
edges, and then we just softenthe edges and let it re-land in
the body.
And how are people, does
SPEAKER_02 (44:03):
it matter the position they are?
Do people benefit more fromlying down?
Props, what could people expect?
SPEAKER_01 (44:13):
Well, you want to be comfortable.
So I would...
use as many props as you need tofeel comfortable.
Laying on your back can be nice,just with your knees up, feet
flat, because then you'resoftening and bringing the
tissues together in the bellyand the womb space where it's
(44:33):
not stretched out, if that makessense.
So that will help to create somemore...
space for movement i guess butreally you can use any like yoga
props any bolsters that help youfeel comfortable the main thing
is you want to be comfortabledoing it some people could even
do it uh almost in a reverseposition, kind of like a puppy
(44:56):
pose, if you think of yogapositions.
And that pose is also reallygood because a lot of us have
retroverted uteruses.
They say it's common, normal,whatever you want to say in the
medical system, but a lot of ouruteruses are completely out of
alignment.
They're back, they're towardsthe rectum, not where they're
(45:19):
supposed to be.
And so sometimes doing thoseinverse positions and just
taking some some breaths andsoftening can support the body
in softening a little bit closerto its natural alignment
SPEAKER_02 (45:34):
yeah your favorite restorative yoga pose man I love
restorative yoga one of ourstudents was a restorative yoga
teacher and so as a thank youafter her graduation she gifted
me four sessions with her manit's like a notch above a nap
but in like the best way like somany props and like so
comfortable um so you know getunder your blanket and lie
(45:56):
somewhere that feels really goodum you don't have to be like
sitting or in kind of like anyyou want to be warm you want to
be warm
SPEAKER_01 (46:04):
and comfortable blanket
SPEAKER_02 (46:05):
yeah yeah um I was laughing to Jillian because my
hands and arms go numb when I dobreath work and I was trying to
pull the blanket up but Icouldn't feel the fabric so I to
just like using my forearms,like drag it up my torso
SPEAKER_01 (46:23):
because I couldn't feel my hands and arms at all.
Yeah, the physical body can kindof dissolve a little bit when
we're doing breath work to whereyou can only feel the energetic.
So using our physical body canbecome very bizarre and we can
feel almost like our...
Like we can't feel our hands orwe can feel them, but we feel
(46:44):
the energy of them.
So we don't actually feel ourfingers.
SPEAKER_02 (46:47):
Yeah.
They were just, they were like,not like they didn't exist.
They were just like a buzzysparkly feeling at the end of my
hand or my arms.
Um, what is something you wishevery doula or body worker or
like helper healer, um, anybodythat's like either has or
supporting folks with a womb,like, what do you want them to
(47:08):
know about the power of breath?
SPEAKER_01 (47:11):
Hmm.
I just want them to use it.
Like our breath is our lifeforce energy.
It's a way to connect in witheverything.
It helps us on a physical level.
It helps us on an emotionallevel, an energetic level, a
spiritual level.
So I think it's just to startusing it.
(47:32):
It's such a powerful tool andit's always available to us.
It's available to everyone.
Like, everyone can breathe.
Well, everyone should bebreathing if we're...
If you're listening, you'rebreathing.
Everyone can breatheintentionally.
UNKNOWN (47:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:51):
And it can be so supportive for anyone doing
birth work and doulas.
I mean, how often do you seepeople in the...
in the birth rooms and they'retrying to use intentional
breathing.
But of course, it works a lotbetter if you practice these
things before.
Practice
SPEAKER_02 (48:08):
makes permanent.
And ironically, ourtraditional...
traditional, not traditional asin like ancestral, but like
what's happening inpractice-based care is the
complete cutting off of thebreath in birth.
So most of the time we're inthese positions that are
scientifically proven, not tomention like lacking safety and
(48:32):
they're uncomfortable, but likethis jamming your knees to your
chest and holding your breathwhile pushing down this Valsalva
maneuver or purple pushing,which we talked about.
talk about, um, it's, you know,the, they say it's 10 seconds,
but they'll like take a deepbreath in.
They're like, okay, mama, push,push one.
That's so good.
Hold that.
(48:52):
Hold that.
Hold that to keep going.
No, no, no.
Three.
And I'm like, yo, we're at 45actual seconds.
And if that birthing personisn't breathing, guess who else
isn't breathing baby.
And so I'm just like, it seemsso counterintuitive to be like,
Stop breathing.
And so, you know, really gettingto know how you feel when you
(49:18):
breathe.
I nudge my friends all the timeand I'm like, you didn't, you're
not breathing.
Like if we're talking or they'refeeling stressed, I'll be like,
yo, I haven't heard you breathenext to me in like 15 seconds.
And they'll be like, oh yeah, Ihave multiple friends.
They're like, oh yeah, I forgot.
I forgot to breathe.
SPEAKER_01 (49:36):
Yeah.
It's so common, right?
And the cool thing about ourbreath is our breath is directly
connected to the way that we'refeeling, to our emotional
experience.
So there are different breathpatterns.
You'll start to notice this ifyou observe yourself throughout
the day, is you breathedifferently through each emotion
(49:56):
that you have.
And so...
By shifting our breath andworking with our breath, we can
alter our experience.
So holding the breath is...
I mean, there are times, asyou've experienced, the breath
holds.
Oh my God, it's so good! Whenthey can be very, very
beautiful.
And I mean, maybe you know moreabout this, but I do feel if we
(50:18):
have to push to that level,level of all of the straining
that you see with traditionalbirth, like maybe we're just not
ready yet for baby to come out.
SPEAKER_02 (50:31):
Yeah, we're supposed to breathe our babies down
because it happens on its own.
Like we don't actually need topush.
SPEAKER_01 (50:37):
Yeah, it's a function, right?
SPEAKER_02 (50:39):
Yeah, folks in a coma will birth a baby.
Wow.
They're just breathing down.
So like you don't even have tobe conscious to...
give birth.
It's an autonomic function andall of our muscle groups work in
unison to continue to contractand then contract that baby
right on out.
And so, yes, of course, all ofit is signs of rushing and
(51:03):
trying to get it over withfaster.
Now, this is something we couldtalk about all day, but I want
people to be able to find youand connect with you.
We're going to have links in theshow notes, but what are some of
the things that people can do inreal life with you as well as
virtually?
SPEAKER_01 (51:21):
Well, I used to do some things virtually and I've
just been having issues withZoom.
So I canceled my Zoomsubscription.
So right now, all of the stuffthat I'm doing is in person in
Annie Ganesh.
I do lots of private breathwork, Reiki treatment, sound
(51:41):
healing, and then we have tonsof community healing.
I really feel like Havingcommunity is what we are
missing.
And it's a really importantpiece to a lot of our healing
journeys to be witnessed andheld in community.
So we do a lot of differentcommunity sessions as well.
(52:04):
And we try to do them in likefun, different ways.
Some of them we incorporateanimals.
So we do Reiki on participantsas they get to hang out and
cuddle puppies or lambs or goatsand, you know, Cute, cute, cute.
Yeah, right?
So it's like healing on so manylevels.
But I do a lot of that and thenI book like private retreats and
(52:28):
that.
Right now I'm not virtual atall.
I won't be in the future.
If
SPEAKER_02 (52:35):
someone wants to fly you to them, will you go?
Probably.
Great.
So if anyone wants to fly her,she's available.
SPEAKER_01 (52:44):
Yeah, I want to go somewhere hot.
SPEAKER_02 (52:47):
So if anyone listening, preferably like maybe
Bali or like I wouldn't be madat Costa
SPEAKER_01 (52:52):
Rica.
Yeah, I would love to.
That is something that I plan todo eventually is...
is traveling and doing retreatsin warm places, going on deep
dive retreats.
Yes, please.
I've signed up already.
SPEAKER_02 (53:08):
I'm number one on your sign-up list.
I'll connect with all the waysthat you can check out Jillian,
and if you guys want to chatwith her, she'll have her
website, her email, and hersocials there.
Highly recommend.
Jillian, thank you for being onthe podcast.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (53:28):
thank you so much for wanting to bring me here.
I didn't know that you talkedabout me on other ones I'm going
to have to go look at them I'mso curious
SPEAKER_02 (53:36):
I always do my like what's happened over the week
and oh okay beautiful yeah andevery time I was like don't
worry she's coming up in a fewweeks it's coming up in an
episode so I highly encourageboth practitioners and folks who
might be going through their ownreproductive journeys right now
(53:56):
see what's available in yourcommunity for breath work and go
interview them so you can havethem on your resource page if
there's somebody you fall inlove with please send them over
to our free doula directory andthose are all practitioners that
doulas have vetted that say likethey're great and it's really
awesome to have just one bigdatabase Jillian I'll have to
(54:19):
make sure you're on it and soyou can always send them over so
that other people that mightlive in I don't know wherever
you are Baltimore or I don'tknow I always pick Baltimore
anywhere in the world They canjoin that free directory there
on the homepage.
Thank you so much, Jillian.
And thank you everyone forlistening.
And I will see you next week inHot and Brave.
SPEAKER_00 (54:45):
Want to keep hanging out?
We have created a free mindsetmini course to help change
makers and birth workers findbliss in their business.
You're not in this alone.
Let's build together.
Head to www.babomia.com slashbib to grab your space and a
free retreat.
(55:06):
Once again, go towww.babomia.com slash bib to
grab your spot.
We will see you next time on theHot and Brave podcast.
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