May 6, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode of Hot + Brave, we’re joined by Anna Lundqvist of Sacred Birth International (www.sacredbirthinternational.com) to explore one of the most profound and often overlooked shifts in a woman’s life: the transition from maiden to mother. Anna shares how birth can be reclaimed as a sacred rite of passage, what gets lost in our over-medicalized systems, and how we can honor the deep emotional, spiritual, and personal transformation that comes with becoming a mother.
Whether you’re pregnant, postpartum, or walking alongside others as a birth worker, this conversation is an invitation to slow down, remember, and reconnect to your own rites of becoming.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
You are listening to the Hot and Brave podcast with
Bianca Sprague from Bebo Mia,where you will hear brave
stories, hot topics and truthbombs that will either light
fire to your rage or be the balmyou need for your soul.
SPEAKER_03 (00:19):
Hello and welcome back to the Hot and Brave
podcast.
I'm your host, Bianca Sprague,and this is the podcast where we
laugh and we rage and we talk alot about birth.
Before we dive in, just a quickupdate from the Babelmia
universe.
First, if you have been thinkingabout becoming a childbirth
educator, now is the time.
Our CBE certification program is$150 off right now with the very
(00:43):
cute code WISEBIRD.
That's all one word.
Yeah, and this does work forpayment plan as well I will also
be speaking at the collaborativedoula conference this May in a
couple weeks in London Ontarioit's going to be an incredible
space of like learning andconnecting collaborating which
(01:05):
is what's in the name and youknow we get to just do this as
birth workers and change makersin the reproductive health space
so grab your tickets if youhaven't yet it would be so
awesome for some real life timewith my community with me and
you and we'll get to hug andtalk and that feels very
(01:25):
exciting um also if you've beenwanting some personalized
support to grow your doula oryour reproductive health
business i've still got a fewspots open for one-on-one
consulting this spring um so ifyou are ready to build something
sustainable and solo line justreach out i would love to
support you Okay, today on Hotand Brave, we are diving into
(01:47):
one of the most powerful andhonestly one of the most
overlooked transitions in awoman's life, and that's the
sacred shift from maiden tomother.
This is a very genderedconversation we will be having,
and we were really holding spacefor this womanly transition.
So if you, yeah, I just want tolike hold that as a kind of
(02:08):
caveat at the beginning, becausethis passage, it's not just
about giving birth to a babyit's about giving birth to a
whole new self and yet thisculture we live in this profound
transformation is oftenminimized medicalized or ignored
completely like we really don'tknow what to do with it so to
help us reclaim this deep thedeep wisdom of this transition I
(02:33):
am going to be joined by AnnaLundquist and she is the founder
of Sacred Birth Internationalshe's also the host of the
Natural Birth podcast and she'ssomeone who has dedicated her
life to midwifing not justbabies but women themselves
across the thresholds of theirlives.
(02:53):
So Anna brings this really rareperspective as a former midwife
who walked away from the medicalsystem to really embody this
sacred art of what she callsmidwitchery.
So this is like tending to thespiritual and the emotional and
these energetic layers ofbirthing and becoming.
So in the conversation we'regoing to talk about what it It
really means to leave the maidenbehind.
(03:15):
How to honor that grief thatcomes with that loss, which, you
know, there's grief that comeswith any transition or any
change.
And then how do we step into thefullness of the fire of
motherhood?
Today, Anna educates and coachesthousands of women on a daily
basis through her onlinecourses, her coaching mentorship
programs, her podcast, hersocial media platforms, and it's
(03:37):
all about claiming the right ofpassage and optimizing the
chances of really having andempowering a natural birth and
this nourishing, you know,peaceful postpartum.
This is for anyone who has stoodon the edge of something bigger
than themselves and wondered ifthey were ready.
So let's get into thisconversation.
(03:58):
All right, today we have Anna.
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast.
I am so excited to explore thistopic with you.
We had a chance to talk aboutthis before we went live and
this topic this amazing kind oflike sacred, these transitions
from the maiden to the motherand then into the crone.
And I was sharing with you andmany of my listeners already
(04:20):
know that I had a hysterectomyback in 2017, which I just
deeply regret.
But I did a lot of ceremonyleading up to the day of losing
my womb, which they didn't evenlet me take home that I really
wanted.
And a lot of the women, theselike spiritual women around me
were saying like, you know, thisis a step into your crone state
(04:41):
and I remember thinking like I'min my mid-30s like I don't have
I haven't gathered enough wisdomto be able to like impart into
this next stage of my life andso I felt really like this kind
of like complicated transitionstraddling which felt so
different than this journey thatI personally had from maiden to
mother which are these like youknow deeply spiritual and
(05:02):
transformative times so I'm justreally excited to explore this
with you today welcome to thepodcast So excited to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Okay, so I want to just jump in.
So, you know, with at SacredBirth International, you talk
about this like birth as aportal.
And I would love to hear how yousee this kind of like transition
(05:27):
of the maiden to mother as thesacred passage.
Like, what does it encompass?
Like, what happens in thisjourney, rather than just the
physical event of birth?
Yeah.
lots of folks kind of haveboiled it down to.
SPEAKER_01 (05:40):
Yeah.
Wow.
I mean, there's so much tounpack there, but if we go back
to just like, what is a rite ofpassage, right?
Because that's what we're hereto talk about.
is it is a life event whereyou're really transitioning from
one identity to the other rightand rite of passages as women we
(06:00):
have three that are uniquely tous which is when we start our
bleed when we go from you knowyoung woman into becoming
fertile and um you know beingable to create life.
That is our first rite ofpassage.
Our second is the birth, is thebirth portal, going through
that, becoming pregnant,birthing a baby and
(06:23):
transitioning into thepostpartum.
Massive changes within the brainand so much to unpack here.
I mean, we only have a podcasthour or something.
And then we have obviouslymenopause where we again
transition.
And, you know, there's thissaying about, you know, when I
got all goose bumpy.
(07:03):
Yes, and obviously this is notknown or talked about or really
seen as such in our modernWestern culture.
We usually were medicatedthrough all of these stages.
Most women actually don't reallyhave the full experience of
being a cyclic being.
She might go on the pill or getsome sort of, you know,
contraceptive that blocks thecyclic being of her nature.
(07:26):
And as we go through the birthportal also, it's very much
managed and medicalizedgenerally for most of the
population.
So a lot of women don't actuallymeet this power or don't
experience it as such.
She more maybe becomes thepatient.
that is saved from this right.
And the same with menopause.
(07:47):
Again, a lot of women, mostwomen will also be medicated
through that.
So we're missing, we're missingthe experience.
Now, I'm not saying that there'snot a place for all of that to
happen for some women, but I donot believe that we should do
that to 99% of the femininepopulation.
But that is what we're doing inour culture today.
(08:08):
But then there's the otheraspect which we're here to talk
about as well, which is thatspiritual aspect and the
cultural, the emotional, themental aspects of rite of
passages.
So a rite of passage teaches uswhen we talk about these
feminine rite of passages, whatit is to be a woman in our
culture.
So your listeners and yourself,I just want to take you back to
(08:30):
when you had your first bleed,because that informed you about
what it's like to be a woman inour culture.
And for most women, if they tunein and look back, that was one
of either neutrality or shame.
Very few women in our Westernculture that doesn't celebrate
this, that doesn't honor this,that doesn't really honor
(08:52):
actually the feminine in men orwomen or anyone in our culture
truly.
We're really into the verymasculine kind of values in our
world, which we all possess allof it.
When a girl usually gets herbleed, it's either silent in her
family or it's like, oh, are youin pain?
(09:13):
Do you need a panadol?
Like there's some sort of, areyou crampy?
Or there might be somejudgmental comments or just, you
know, not very positive.
And usually that's also maybearound the girls.
Maybe she's first or in middleor in the last.
And there's always some sort of,ooh, I was first or I was last
or it came at school and I bledthrough my pants or whatever.
(09:35):
My dad told me, are you...
Do you have PMS?
There's like this negativeconnotation.
We learn very early what it'slike to be a woman in our
society through our rite ofpassage, the first one, it
informs us.
Very rarely do a woman or agirl, I mean, hear, wow welcome
to womanhood and now you cancreate life let me teach you how
(09:57):
to move in your cycle so thatyou best are served by that
cycle you know how we canactually as cyclic being live
with our four seasons during themonth so that we are
harmoniously moving through lifeand not have maybe this really
crampy painful periods or end upwith so much disease in our
wombs This is very correlated tothe way we live, the stress
(10:19):
levels, how we eat, how we areso disconnected to our bodies,
shape, all of these things thatsit so deeply, also rooted in
how we met the first rite.
Now, we're not here to talkabout that.
We're jumping into the birthportal now.
But it really informs you,though, doesn't it?
It informs you so early on.
And you're also generallymedicated.
So when you get to this timewhen you're going to pass
(10:41):
through the second rite ofpassage, so many women do it
unconsciously.
And also don't realize themassive shift she's going to go
through.
Not only as she conceives a babydoes her brain starts to change
and it continues throughpregnancy, birth and postpartum
for two years.
She's losing gray matter.
(11:02):
She's adding new pathways.
She's reprogramming herpersonality.
And this again...
We meet like, oh, you have mommybrain.
Oh, you're so forgetful.
Or, you know, there's jokes, butthere's like, it's usually a
negative kind of way that youtalk about mommy brain.
And I talk about it.
What a sacred gift.
You can rewire your brain.
(11:23):
You can choose now who you aretoday.
You can totally transform andyou can be, you know, active in
that, in that doing.
You don't have to be passive andthis victim to it.
No.
What do you want to feed yourbrain with?
You know, it's there, obviously,for us to be primed to be this
amazing caregiver to our child,obviously.
And that will be what takes upmost of a mama's brain,
(11:47):
especially, you know, in thatbeginning, the postpartum time,
and it should.
But then we also have theopportunity to be very mindful
of what we feed our brain with,for example.
UNKNOWN (11:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
As you see, I can talk forever about this.
Is there something that's comingup for you that you want to stop
me?
SPEAKER_03 (12:02):
Well, I'm...
Okay, so I'm trying to like...
I was processing as you weretalking because I'm one of three
sisters.
I'm the middle.
And my older sister, she's quitedramatic.
And I was very like...
She's an artist and I was verylike logical and blah, blah.
Anyway, so she's five and a halfyears older than me.
And I remember when she got herfirst period, my mom...
(12:26):
my parents are pretty woo woo somy mom had over her like women's
circle and they she had sewn ohmy god I'm getting like armpit
sweats thinking about it she hadsewn this really beautiful white
nightgown for my sister and theydid a ceremony for her with my
mom's friends this like thisrite of passage ceremony and I
(12:49):
remember sitting at the top ofthe stairs looking down through
the banister being like Thatlooks like the worst fucking
thing to ever happen.
Like, I'd rather be dead thansit in the middle of that circle
while these women do this, like,rite of passage ceremony.
And when I got my period, whichI got it, like, quote, pretty
late relative to, like, the age.
(13:10):
So I was maybe, like, 15.
And I didn't tell anyone becauseI was like, I do not...
want to be in a nightie with mymom's vegan homeschooling
friends having this rite ofpassage ceremony.
And interestingly, I did thesame thing with my birth.
So I've never been medicated.
(13:31):
I birthed unmedicated.
I birthed like Prettypowerfully, but alone.
And then I parented alone and Ilike kind of went through these,
but I, you know, there's timesthat I can feel like the
isolation in it, but I actuallyfound that I felt the most
powerful when I was like kind oflike recharging what I needed.
Like I kept my own sacred space.
(13:53):
And so I'm kind of I'm trying tohold how like listening to your
words, the rite of passage beinglike, where did I sit?
Because periods weren't that bigof a deal in my house.
But all I kept thinking is, I donot want this to be like a
public declaration of this riteof passage.
And I feel like that continuedon through my stages.
So I don't know.
(14:13):
I don't know what you have tosay about that.
It made me laugh thinking aboutthe ceremony of it being so
honored and cherished in myfamily of origin.
SPEAKER_01 (14:22):
Yeah.
You know, there's no right andwrong, right?
Some, you know, some who've hada positive experience, you know,
might have had their parents golike, wow, now we get to go out
and we'll shop something in redfor you.
There's some sort ofsignificance or there's some
sort of honoring or just liketonight we have a nice dinner,
you know, whatever.
It could be a marking like thator just kind words or something
(14:44):
positive.
It doesn't need to be a ceremonywith woo-woo stuff, right?
And it sounds like you just, youknow, with the personality and
the human being you are, thatwas just how you did not want to
be.
Yeah.
(15:15):
a shameful experience thatreally, you know, and it's also,
it teaches us about our cultureat large, not just our family,
but just like how we weretreated at school by boys, by
girls, by, by teachers.
How did they speak about it?
TV, you know, society as a, as alarge teaches us as you know,
what it means to be women in ourculture through that.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:36):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
The same with going through the other two, which
both very much pathologize asbeing woman, truly, and strips
woman off her power.
And even women who want to havea natural birth or want to claim
it as her own, if they step in,which most people do, step into
(15:58):
the hospital system, and evensometimes in the birth center
and home birth midwives also,there is a...
power imbalance where she stillbecomes um the damsel in
distress and especially thefirst time when we talk about
maiden to mother so there's abeautiful other saying that the
maiden can't birth a baby sheneeds to step away and the
(16:20):
mother need to needs to you knowsurface and she's the only one
who is powerful enough to gothrough the right passage of
birth and birth her baby itneeds to be the death of the
maiden and the birth of themother through the birth portal
and yes that you know that canhappen in all kinds of births it
doesn't have to be a naturalbirth absolutely not you can
(16:41):
have an empowering and positivebirth experience in any birth
setting with cesarean withmedicalized birth in all you
know shapes and forms it isabout how you are treated and
the energy you come in with andif you're owning that experience
or not if you are coming in as apatient or a victim or if you're
coming in as that mama lionesschoosing your medicalized birth
(17:01):
choosing your cesarean whateveryou're choosing that it's coming
from a empowerment and not avictimhood or that damsel that
needs to be rescued
SPEAKER_03 (17:10):
right yeah the loss of loss of your voice and um and
like a feeling of a like failurealready that like they had to I
mean look at the language ofbirth um this language of like
good thing we're here to saveyou from your body's inability
to birth and I know I likeroared into motherhood um like I
don't know what happened but Ihulked out of my maiden skin and
(17:32):
I came like I just came to lifeIt's when I started Bebo Mia.
I just took on the world bystorm and it was just really
profound.
And so with these transitions,obviously things have to, I
mean, sometimes they have to dieor they have to step away or we
outgrow them.
So what are some of the thingsyou would identify from this
(17:54):
journey from maiden to motherthat we've shed in order to
really step into that motherrole?
SPEAKER_01 (17:59):
Some women will go through this.
Clinging consciously orunconsciously to their maiden
and never very lately in theirlife step into the mother.
And you know them.
You know women who are in their40s, 50s who are still acting
like 14-year-olds.
So it doesn't necessarily meanjust because you go through this
rite of passage that youactually do what it's meant to
(18:21):
be doing for you.
Again, it is how we approach it.
Whatever kind of birth we have,but there is something magical
about physiological birth thatwe can't get away from.
And that's not negating thatsometimes it ends up being
medical or we're needing otherways of birthing.
But the physiology and thehormones does something very
(18:42):
powerful to women.
We experience the highest we canwhen it comes to the oxytocin
peak.
We have an altered stage ofconsciousness.
you know, the rush of endorphinsand opiates in our own system.
If you've gone through it, youknow that, I mean, so many women
will exclaim hours or evenminutes after birth, I want to
(19:02):
have another baby.
I need to do this again.
They're ready to take on theworld.
Like you said, they become thesereally powerful women that know
their worth and know their powerand don't take any more shit.
There's something that happensas you go through that and
understand how powerful you are.
If you've birthed a baby, youcan do anything because it's
bloody hard.
And so it's just this massivechallenge, right?
(19:25):
This rite of passage.
as she's showing you your power,as I said, right?
We start to practice when webleed.
It shows to us really, trulythrough birth.
And then we become it as we gothrough the fire of menopause.
And so this is what 99.9% ofwomen don't experience,
unfortunately, in our currentmaternity system.
SPEAKER_03 (19:48):
Yeah.
It's almost extinct.
Yeah, it is.
And even like, when we talk iswhat is the role of mother?
And really at this point,because of the patriarchy and
white supremacy and capitalism,the role of motherhood is an
enslaved role of just likeadding more tasks to her to-do
list.
And so it's no surprise thatit's really hard that I find
(20:12):
women simultaneously don't stepinto the powerful role of mother
because they're exhausted by thework of motherhood.
And then they cling to like, Iused to have fun going out
dancing with my friends.
I used to do all of thesethings.
My body used to look like this.
And so we're in this kind oflike transition no man's like
(20:33):
this, you know, this nothingnessof exhaustion and this
disconnect because we don't getto be powerful.
We don't get to actually raiseour children in a way that is
like you know, the role of, ofraising our children.
Instead we, you know, keep themalive and fill out a lot of
forms and buy them lots of shit.
(20:54):
And, and so I feel like a lot ofgrief when I look at where
motherhood is and what I wishfor motherhood, like, which is,
you know, why I started BabelMia and I wanted to empower
people going through thisjourney so that they could
powerfully parent and, and, youknow, go through, see their own
kind of gifts come to fruitionand pass them on to their
(21:18):
children i
SPEAKER_01 (21:19):
think a lot of women when they wake up after having a
baby the first time are likehave this cold shower of
realizing that we live in asociety in a world that actually
doesn't honor women or mothersand that very much like the old
saying of like children supposedto be seen but not heard is also
applicable to mothers that it'snot a supported role, as you
(21:44):
were saying.
Some countries, I know, youknow, Canada, Sweden, we have
better kind of maternity leaveand a bit of more support.
Better.
Still, I was going to say,still, it's not even coming
close to what women actuallyneed as they become new mothers.
We don't have a support network.
We don't live in the tribe, inthe community like we used to.
We're so isolated and alone.
And some thrive like yourself.
(22:05):
You know, we're all differentthere.
But ultimately, whoever we are,we need the practical and
emotional support and women arenot getting that.
And that is a massive thing thatI think contributes to the high
level of postpartum depressionthat we're seeing.
I do not believe that all ofthat is chemical.
I think a large portion of thosewomen are just isolated and so
(22:28):
alone and no one should motheralone if they don't want to.
SPEAKER_03 (22:35):
No, I mean, I would have really loved to have a
great support network.
I found myself mothering alone.
That was not the plan.
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
Right.
And that's the thing, you know,it's, you know, that's the
thing.
So the rite of passage made intomother is it's so multilayered.
So, yeah.
there is that death of themaiden and the birth of the
mother that needs to happen.
We can talk about that, youknow, the identity crisis that
most women in our modern societygoes through because no one
talks about it.
(23:03):
It's just that kind of, oh,sleep now before the babies come
because then you can't.
And, you know, but it's notreally talked about as you know
i see that you know having gonewith walks with so many women
through this portal that theones and they are not many but
the ones who truly understandthat they are now actually
(23:24):
sacrificing the maiden to go andthey are willing to do so for
the love of wanting to be amother and have a child and they
are surrendering into that roleand they're surrendering their
old life to to now dive into thenew they move through this
portal with much lessfrustration and doesn't end up
in the suffering that so manywomen do as they kind of are hit
(23:46):
with this postpartum going likeoh I can't do all the things
that I did before I thought Icould just take my baby with me
everywhere and just be the sameperson and they have to then go
through that grief for maybe avery long extended period of
time for a year or two yearslonger before they end up
accepting where they are.
And I wish women didn't have togo through suffering like they
do, but that we can honestlytalk about that it's gonna
(24:08):
happen.
There needs to be a death of theold and a birth of the new.
You're not gonna, if you're veryhighly identified with your
career and you have to leavethat for a while, you have to
find like, you have to findaccomplishment and fulfillment
in being mother and beingsomething else than what you
identify with.
(24:29):
You can go back to that.
You're never going to go backthe same because you're going to
be changed.
Values are going to change.
Your personality will change.
It's going to happen.
And if you don't accept thatchange, you are going to suffer
until you do.
What you persist persists.
That's just the truth.
SPEAKER_03 (24:46):
Yeah.
And I want to just clarify,because as we're talking about
the role of mother, like itfeels important to say what it
is, because again, all peoplewill typically say is like, I
mean, the risk of hearing whatyou're saying is fall in love
with filling out forms anddriving to daycare and, and
filling out, you know, buyingbirthday gifts for kids you'd
(25:08):
barely know from Gymboree.
And like, you know, that is Thatis not motherhood.
So let's just clarify so thatpeople don't think that in any
way, shape or form, we'retelling them to fall in love
with their 24-7 job of cookingand cleaning and doing the act
of the work of raising children.
(25:28):
What is this role of motherhood?
What does it include?
SPEAKER_01 (25:35):
Well, let's unpack that together.
I mean, what does it mean foryou?
Tell me what that means for you.
SPEAKER_03 (25:40):
Well, One of the things that I found has been the
most powerful for me in my roleas mother is Continuing to very
intentionally, consistentlydoing my own healing work and
then teaching this to mydaughter.
And that takes a lot of time.
Like that takes a lot of time,different modalities of
integrating, of journaling, ofReiki, of breathwork, of Cairo
(26:03):
massage therapy, like spendingtime in nature, like really
being committed to doing betterfor her.
And I would say that's like oneof the biggest pillars.
And it's the pillar that I'vewatched her grow.
Like, cause obviously my work isgetting like faster and easier
the older I get.
And it's getting easier to havethe kind of relationship that's
more adult because she's goingto be 18 this summer.
(26:25):
And so, you know, that work wascritical and I got to do a lot
of it through my actual paidlabor, starting becoming a doula
when she was a baby.
And so I, I, I see the role ofmodeling for her.
So like I came out again, Ican't, I, I, I came out as gay
(26:46):
in college and then was like,oh, I don't know how this is
going to make my life reallyuncomfortable.
And then was in a heterorelationship for two years and
then came out again.
And so I was like that act ofliving my truth and showing her
as a baby and like having hersee me you know, exist
powerfully in the world andchallenge systems and advocate
(27:09):
to protect her voice.
And, you know, these are thethings, as well as some of the
really important skills that Iwant her to have.
So, like, it's important thatshe feels comfortable talking
about money and politics andfeels competent moving through
her life, whether she wants todo those tasks or contract them
out.
But, like, I wanted her to feelcompetent as she existed in the
(27:31):
world.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Yeah.
Well, it sounds like what I hearyou're saying is that you're
really embodying the mamalioness that we spoke about,
SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
right?
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
That, you know, the protector and the provider and
the sustainer and the nurturerof your child.
And that is what being a parent,right?
Motherhood.
And then we can talk about whatthat looks like for everyone and
different, you know, foreveryone.
But I guess it's the...
I think to...
(28:01):
survive also this world like wejust discussed that doesn't
support mothers or parents justdoesn't support at all to be
able to survive that and notdrown potentially in what you
just explained to reallyacknowledge that actually that
(28:21):
this is the most important jobon the planet and to like lean
into the importance of everyday, every mundane, boring,
hard, exhausting moment that youhave birthed new life.
Your job now and forevermore isto serve this new being.
And that might or might not sitwell with you, but that's the
(28:44):
truth.
You've birthed new life.
You are now the caregiver andthe custodian of, you know,
protecting and letting thathuman being obviously find their
own feet and who they are in theworld.
You're not there to reallyinfluence that, you know, to
support that new human to findtheir own way in the world.
And that is the job of becominga parent.
(29:04):
That is the truth.
job now not everyone and verymany don't claim that role they
might just want to have childrenbut also live their life that
they did before and not ready toclaim that actually birthing new
life does give you also theresponsibility of being 100% 24
7 therefore a human being andwhen you have that realization
and you and you accept it andyou lean into it it can give you
(29:27):
a great sense of purpose trulyin life and what is life if not
purpose without purpose andbeing of service actually
there's no happiness now somepeople are like no no no but
actually you know if you look atthat research and everything
what is happiness we're strivingto be happy all the time we're
not happy all the time butfulfillment contentment comes of
(29:49):
being of purpose andself-service and that is
motherhood that is parenthoodAnd if you lean into that, you
can, I think, more so easilyhandle all the shit show that
goes on around you and how hardit is sometimes than if you
resist that.
SPEAKER_03 (30:07):
Yeah.
And I fully, just everybodylistening, because I know I had
a really nice answer for what Ithink Raising Gray is and my
role as mother, but my firstyears were so hard.
They were so hard coming out.
They were so hard in litigation,for custody, which obviously...
I had all the time.
They were so hard withpostpartum mood disorder that
(30:29):
was undiagnosed for two and ahalf years.
And I felt like I could tellthat I wasn't fulfilling my my
role like the true essence ofthe role of motherhood and I
remember feeling so angry aboutit because I was like I'm
wearing you all the time I'mbreastfeeding you I'm you're
never put down you sleep with meand I was like so resentful but
(30:51):
I was like doing all the thingsof like quote attachment
parenting being like why is thisso terrible and it's never
ending and so like this is whatyou know Anne and I are talking
about everyone is like it youit's like more about the what
you're doing like the why andnot the what you're doing
because I was following theactions of you know really
(31:12):
intense attachment parenting butI was suffering and hated I
hated being a mom but Iobviously had this like intense
love and this like I want I wanther to be wonderful and it
wasn't until I stopped resistingwhich took a very many years
after that to take up the liketrue role of motherhood And I
(31:35):
had to do a lot of healing workwith Gray to go back and say, I
didn't honor my role as yourmom, even though we were
together all the time.
And I like on paper was aperfect parent.
And it's been profound.
And just like if it's hopefulfor anybody listening, it was
such an easy process to healfrom that once you name it.
(31:56):
Like once I said to her, like, Iwasn't present, even though I
was next to you all the time.
And I didn't know how to do thisjob.
And I'm learning to do it withyou right now.
And kids are so...
generous with their malleabilityand their open hearts and it was
great because i could pick upeven though i didn't really
(32:17):
understand it until she wasprobably like 10 years old um
and then didn't really reallyunderstand it until she was like
15 years old um and and so ijust want to hold that in case
anybody's feeling grief or likeyou feel like you might have
missed that or done it wrong orlike you you're interested in
upholding the role of mother ina different way
SPEAKER_01 (32:36):
yeah and
SPEAKER_03 (32:38):
so
SPEAKER_01 (32:39):
You did the best you could with the circumstances you
had.
And I think one really, reallycrucial thing is to have radical
self-acceptance through thejourney in a fucked up world
that doesn't support.
If you had done all thosethings, but you had this massive
support network that you couldlean into and rest in that like
24 seven was around you couldlike also hold your baby, cook
(33:01):
for you, clean for you, care foryou, then you wouldn't feel so
resentful.
You would have been filled up byother people.
We don't have that, but that is,that is the origin though.
That's how we used to live notlong ago.
Also in our Western countries,we had our, we lived in, you
know, more of like family, youknow, units, maybe grandma and
grandpa and mom and dad,everyone lived together or at
(33:22):
least close by in the village.
There was a totally differentsupport network that we do not
have.
And so the role today is notalmost possible to do.
especially
SPEAKER_03 (33:33):
possible it
SPEAKER_01 (33:34):
is impossible so you have to have yeah well the thing
so you have to have radicalself-acceptance through this and
you can only do the best of yourability and so you have to you
can't blame yourself for thatbecause you can't be super human
you're not yeah you were nevermeant to be so i think radical
like grace and compassionself-acceptance through this
(33:57):
role is So important becauseyou're doing it in a way that
is, as you say, actuallyimpossible to do it right.
SPEAKER_03 (34:05):
Yeah, for sure.
Oh my gosh, I have so manyquestions.
One of them just popped in.
I had one that I was going toask, but I actually...
How, as we're looking at thesystems and the people around
this person going through thistransformation from maiden to
mother, what are your thoughtsor what comments do you have
(34:26):
about...
how terrifying that is for menin general.
And so, like, how the role inthe hetero context of the, like,
role of fatherhood coming insimultaneously.
Again, all my queers, we'retalking hetero here.
Like, what impact?
(34:47):
Because, you know, throughoutmodern history, there's been a
medication, there's been anumbing.
Like, the whole idea is to...
take away and rob women of theirpower.
What do we do in this situationwhere it's terrifying to
witness?
And so we're having thisdramatic pull with the role of
(35:09):
mother and father and thecomplete inequity in everything
that those two roles hold.
SPEAKER_01 (35:16):
What was your question in that?
So if we would speak about justmen, when it comes to birth, and
also parenthood for that matter,but are even less prepared by
society, less prepared, haveabsolutely no clue.
If women have very little clueabout the transition she's gonna
(35:37):
go through, the man has none,and also no then understanding
what's happening after she'sbirthed.
So for a lot of women, forexample, There is no desire,
some have desire, but some haveno desire for intimacy or
penetration for months,sometimes even years postpartum.
You know, being in thebreastfeeding relationship, if
she's doing that for a longperiod of time, her own identity
(36:00):
crisis, navigating this new rolethat is not supported in
society, drowning most likely inthat and then having a partner
that is not equipped doesn'tunderstand the woman's needs or
what she's going through thechanges of her brain her whole
chemistry and that she feelstouched out most of the time
doesn't want intimacy which forhim is the way she shows love
(36:22):
and he shows love so he doesn'tfeel appreciated and loved so
many couples in the heterosexualrelationships fail in the first
year postpartum so many So manydoesn't make it to one year
because they're not prepared.
No one's prepared for therelationship to change.
The man's not ready for thiswoman to fully change.
Maybe she was on the pill aswell before.
(36:43):
So she's doing a massive shiftof how she feels about him or,
and she's just in this mama babyunit, which is what nature
intended, right?
But in our society where there'sthis nuclear family and no one
understands this, thedisconnection happens for most
couples, for a lot of couplesanyways.
So they're not equipped.
And when it comes to the birthportal, of course, they're
(37:05):
scared.
Men have never been in the birthspace throughout all of time.
It's always been women'sbusiness.
It's only really been, what,maybe 50 years that they've been
divided in?
Yeah, I was going to say 70years.
Maybe, different in everycountry.
Yeah.
Right?
So it's like...
It's really new and for most ofthat time also he has got no
(37:26):
instructions of what he can do,how he can support his woman.
I can't tell you how many as amidwife in the hospital I saw
men sitting on their phonesbeing disconnected as the woman
is lying on the bed with anepidural and there's just
absolutely total disconnectionto what's happening in that
room.
But then there's some men thatdefinitely steps up, more so in
the home birth and birth center,birth space, because there is
(37:49):
more of an awareness usuallyaround those couples and those
women choosing that.
And that relationship usually ismore also connected to those
choices and wanting to be moresovereign in decision-making and
educating themselves.
And I've seen amazing men stepup in the birth space.
You know, his role is to be thepresent presence.
(38:10):
That is his gift as themasculine, actually.
They were amazing at anchoringwomen in labor and being a
steady rock that is what sheneeds from him she doesn't need
him to be in his feminine orlike cuddle her he just needs to
be present hold her be theanchor she can hang from him he
can you know hold her up he canabsolutely give her love and
(38:31):
touch and words of affirmationsbut then she needs a feminine
presence that has seen birthmany times that can really help
her through the scary part oftransition when she's freaking
out or when she's pushing herbaby out the man in that moment
usually doesn't know how tocoach his woman through that
that is where the wise womansits at her side and helps her
(38:52):
through that
SPEAKER_03 (38:56):
oh we've done such a number on birth this like such a
powerful like oh my goodness uhum if we're looking at you know,
what would be some words ofwisdom that you would want to
pass on to somebody who mightbe, you know, preparing to go
through this rite of passage,assuming they have some time to
(39:18):
maybe do some tweaking and fixsome, plug some of these holes
that we're talking about, evenif they're not necessarily
wanting a spiritual birth, butto like really prepare them for
this rite of passage.
SPEAKER_01 (39:33):
Decide to claim it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(39:53):
That is not something that isjust woo-woo and made up.
It's very strong.
And as women, when you'repregnant, the veils between the
worlds are very thin and youhave a stronger sense of inner
knowing.
And you need to trust that.
You're also very malleableduring pregnancy and very
impressionable.
So guard your space.
(40:14):
Look within and find the answersand then go out and seek what
you want.
Whatever kind of birth that isthat feels in alignment for you.
and take charge in a way thatprepare, learn about that.
Learn also about, you know, seekout and learn about the maiden
to mother transition and learnabout, understand that you are
going to go through an identitycrisis, that that's supposed to
(40:36):
happen.
Your brain will change, yourpersonality will change, your
values and everything willchange and start in pregnancy
already grieve what you need togrieve because it's a part of it
when you a part of you will dieso the maiden will die so start
grieving that which you will belosing and start preparing to
step into the mother who needsto be this sovereign woman that
(40:58):
will not take shit and will notbe walked over you need to step
into her because you're going tonow protect another life so you
can't stay in the maiden youneed to step into the mother and
this is something you canjournal about you can talk about
with others who understand thisyou know seek out that there are
women and we have beautifulconnections now all over the
world through internet you knowfind your community online if
(41:20):
you don't have it where you livebecause most of us are still
spread out And don't live incommunity of amazing tribes of
women that can support usthrough this, right?
So seek them out online, right?
And find your tribe that cansupport you as you navigate this
rite of passage.
And claim it.
That's my words.
Like claim it in your way,whatever that looks like.
(41:41):
Don't give it away becausesomeone else will claim it for
you.
Your doctor, the hospital, themidwife.
Don't give it away.
Claim it.
Own it.
Go into and meet your power.
It's fantastic.
SPEAKER_03 (41:52):
Yeah.
You talked about reason.
yeah be excited be very excitedit's a profound experience um
you talked about resources doyou have a few books that you
recommend that could kick offthis exploration of these rites
of passages for our listenersyes I do um I
SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
don't see anyways it's called um Rachel Reed Dr.
Rachel Reed is an amazingmidwife who's written a book
called Childbirth as a Rite ofPassage
SPEAKER_03 (42:24):
um
SPEAKER_01 (42:24):
Yeah.
And that was good for birthworkers.
It's a part of my Secret BirthWorker Mentorship curriculum
books, you know, but also can beread by women who are really
ready to claim her right.
And in any birth setting.
So Rachel is very good at justexploring, yes, rite of passages
and within also the maternitysetting specifically.
(42:46):
So I would say that one.
For a lighter version, I wouldsay Gentle Birth, Gentle
Mothering by Sarah Buckley.
SPEAKER_03 (42:56):
Good old Sarah.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Those two would be my probably my, because they
work for anyone having any kindof birth.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (43:05):
Those are great suggestions.
Many of our listeners are alsobirth workers.
So what advice would you want topass on to them so that they can
hold the space, you know, andreally like witness this rite of
passage with their clients?
UNKNOWN (43:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:21):
So...
I do massive unpacking with mystudents about two and a half
months of the deep inner workand I would say that do inner
work so look at your own rite ofpassages how did you experience
your first bleed you know ifyou've birthed we don't want to
carry like this baggage of ourown unconscious baggage that we
(43:43):
haven't worked through so yourown relationship to your body
sexuality your voicerelationship to authority you
know nature being a psychicbeing being a woman what what
What does that mean to you?
Because it's going to affect howyou actually meet another woman
in her labor process.
You know, your own sounding likevoice, right?
So important that you clear yourown throat chakra to be able to
(44:05):
sit with a woman and maybe helpher sound through your sound,
right?
We can deepen with a woman inlabor as we're humming.
So we're deepening our voice.
We don't have to say words.
We can do sounds.
We can embody.
We can sway with her, right?
So I would say so much, I think,actually, the knowledge...
is secondary anyone can be agood space holder in birth if
(44:26):
they are if they can clean andclear themselves to become the
channel between the heavens andthe earth themselves if they can
open up you know in the quantumfield to their heart and womb
and feel and sense and be veryin tune with their intuition
they're going to be the bestspace holder much more so than
someone who knows all the booksand all the knowledge about
other things women don't need toknow positions to being in birth
(44:48):
or like spinning babies theyneed your presence That is
unafraid.
That is what you need to hold asa birth worker.
That's all y'all.
That's all you have to do.
I know I'm passionate
SPEAKER_03 (45:05):
about this.
If you could whisper one truthinto the ear of every woman who
is standing at this thresholdbetween maiden and mother, what
would you whisper in her ear?
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
You're more powerful than you believe.
And this portal is going to showyou just how powerful you are.
SPEAKER_03 (45:27):
That's beautiful.
Thank you.
You have some interestingprograms for both parents and
practitioners coming up thismonth.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (45:39):
Well, yes.
So this month, my sacred birthworker mentorship starts, which
is a year long journey foranyone who wants to become a
birth worker.
So doula or doulas and midwives.
And I also had a pediatrician gothrough it who wants to deepen
into the sacredness of birth andreally become this, as I spoke
about this sacred space holderand cultivate themselves to
(46:03):
become this very powerfulpresence in the birth room.
So we begin on the 19th of Mayand there's still a few spots
left as we're currentlyrecording this if anyone's
amazing
SPEAKER_03 (46:13):
and you have your natural birth course available
too for parents right
SPEAKER_01 (46:18):
Absolutely.
That is evergreen.
So it's always available.
It's an online course that youcan take in your own pace to
prepare for a natural birth.
So it's really primed tooptimize your chances of having
that if you wish to have anatural birth in hospital, birth
center at home, so any birthsetting.
So it's also working a lot onthat, you know, working through
fears and the subconscious mindand doing more than just
(46:39):
learning about the...
the process you know and thephysiology even though it's
obviously you know also coveringthat or from that holistic and
also spiritual way of seeingthis this portal
SPEAKER_03 (46:51):
That's amazing.
And we're going to have all yourchannels so that folks can
connect with you and see what'shappening with you and all the
beautiful work that you do.
I'm just so grateful that youare here today.
I just I love your work.
I think it's really important tonot lose sight of this really
(47:14):
profound element of birth thatunfortunately is systematically
stripped away.
So thank you.
Thank you for doing thisprotective work of that space.
SPEAKER_01 (47:24):
Thank you so much for letting me speak to you.
It's been an absolute pleasure,both on and off recording.
Excellent.
SPEAKER_03 (47:32):
Thank you so much.
All right, y'all.
Bye now.
SPEAKER_00 (47:40):
Want to keep hanging out?
We have created a free mindsetmini course to help change
makers and birth workers findbliss in their business.
You're not in this alone.
Let's build together.
Head to www.babomia.com slashVIB to grab your space and a
free retreat.
Once again, go towww.babomia.com slash VIB to
(48:06):
grab your spot.
We will see you next time on theHot and Brave Podcast.
podcast.
You are listening to the Hot and Brave podcast with
Bianca Sprague from Bebo Mia,where you will hear brave
stories, hot topics and truthbombs that will either light
fire to your rage or be the balmyou need for your soul.
SPEAKER_03 (00:19):
Hello and welcome back to the Hot and Brave
podcast.
I'm your host, Bianca Sprague,and this is the podcast where we
laugh and we rage and we talk alot about birth.
Before we dive in, just a quickupdate from the Babelmia
universe.
First, if you have been thinkingabout becoming a childbirth
educator, now is the time.
Our CBE certification program is$150 off right now with the very
(00:43):
cute code WISEBIRD.
That's all one word.
Yeah, and this does work forpayment plan as well I will also
be speaking at the collaborativedoula conference this May in a
couple weeks in London Ontarioit's going to be an incredible
space of like learning andconnecting collaborating which
(01:05):
is what's in the name and youknow we get to just do this as
birth workers and change makersin the reproductive health space
so grab your tickets if youhaven't yet it would be so
awesome for some real life timewith my community with me and
you and we'll get to hug andtalk and that feels very
(01:25):
exciting um also if you've beenwanting some personalized
support to grow your doula oryour reproductive health
business i've still got a fewspots open for one-on-one
consulting this spring um so ifyou are ready to build something
sustainable and solo line justreach out i would love to
support you Okay, today on Hotand Brave, we are diving into
(01:47):
one of the most powerful andhonestly one of the most
overlooked transitions in awoman's life, and that's the
sacred shift from maiden tomother.
This is a very genderedconversation we will be having,
and we were really holding spacefor this womanly transition.
So if you, yeah, I just want tolike hold that as a kind of
(02:08):
caveat at the beginning, becausethis passage, it's not just
about giving birth to a babyit's about giving birth to a
whole new self and yet thisculture we live in this profound
transformation is oftenminimized medicalized or ignored
completely like we really don'tknow what to do with it so to
help us reclaim this deep thedeep wisdom of this transition I
(02:33):
am going to be joined by AnnaLundquist and she is the founder
of Sacred Birth Internationalshe's also the host of the
Natural Birth podcast and she'ssomeone who has dedicated her
life to midwifing not justbabies but women themselves
across the thresholds of theirlives.
(02:53):
So Anna brings this really rareperspective as a former midwife
who walked away from the medicalsystem to really embody this
sacred art of what she callsmidwitchery.
So this is like tending to thespiritual and the emotional and
these energetic layers ofbirthing and becoming.
So in the conversation we'regoing to talk about what it It
really means to leave the maidenbehind.
(03:15):
How to honor that grief thatcomes with that loss, which, you
know, there's grief that comeswith any transition or any
change.
And then how do we step into thefullness of the fire of
motherhood?
Today, Anna educates and coachesthousands of women on a daily
basis through her onlinecourses, her coaching mentorship
programs, her podcast, hersocial media platforms, and it's
(03:37):
all about claiming the right ofpassage and optimizing the
chances of really having andempowering a natural birth and
this nourishing, you know,peaceful postpartum.
This is for anyone who has stoodon the edge of something bigger
than themselves and wondered ifthey were ready.
So let's get into thisconversation.
(03:58):
All right, today we have Anna.
Thank you so much for being onthe podcast.
I am so excited to explore thistopic with you.
We had a chance to talk aboutthis before we went live and
this topic this amazing kind oflike sacred, these transitions
from the maiden to the motherand then into the crone.
And I was sharing with you andmany of my listeners already
(04:20):
know that I had a hysterectomyback in 2017, which I just
deeply regret.
But I did a lot of ceremonyleading up to the day of losing
my womb, which they didn't evenlet me take home that I really
wanted.
And a lot of the women, theselike spiritual women around me
were saying like, you know, thisis a step into your crone state
(04:41):
and I remember thinking like I'min my mid-30s like I don't have
I haven't gathered enough wisdomto be able to like impart into
this next stage of my life andso I felt really like this kind
of like complicated transitionstraddling which felt so
different than this journey thatI personally had from maiden to
mother which are these like youknow deeply spiritual and
(05:02):
transformative times so I'm justreally excited to explore this
with you today welcome to thepodcast So excited to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Okay, so I want to just jump in.
So, you know, with at SacredBirth International, you talk
about this like birth as aportal.
And I would love to hear how yousee this kind of like transition
(05:27):
of the maiden to mother as thesacred passage.
Like, what does it encompass?
Like, what happens in thisjourney, rather than just the
physical event of birth?
Yeah.
lots of folks kind of haveboiled it down to.
SPEAKER_01 (05:40):
Yeah.
Wow.
I mean, there's so much tounpack there, but if we go back
to just like, what is a rite ofpassage, right?
Because that's what we're hereto talk about.
is it is a life event whereyou're really transitioning from
one identity to the other rightand rite of passages as women we
(06:00):
have three that are uniquely tous which is when we start our
bleed when we go from you knowyoung woman into becoming
fertile and um you know beingable to create life.
That is our first rite ofpassage.
Our second is the birth, is thebirth portal, going through
that, becoming pregnant,birthing a baby and
(06:23):
transitioning into thepostpartum.
Massive changes within the brainand so much to unpack here.
I mean, we only have a podcasthour or something.
And then we have obviouslymenopause where we again
transition.
And, you know, there's thissaying about, you know, when I
got all goose bumpy.
(07:03):
Yes, and obviously this is notknown or talked about or really
seen as such in our modernWestern culture.
We usually were medicatedthrough all of these stages.
Most women actually don't reallyhave the full experience of
being a cyclic being.
She might go on the pill or getsome sort of, you know,
contraceptive that blocks thecyclic being of her nature.
(07:26):
And as we go through the birthportal also, it's very much
managed and medicalizedgenerally for most of the
population.
So a lot of women don't actuallymeet this power or don't
experience it as such.
She more maybe becomes thepatient.
that is saved from this right.
And the same with menopause.
(07:47):
Again, a lot of women, mostwomen will also be medicated
through that.
So we're missing, we're missingthe experience.
Now, I'm not saying that there'snot a place for all of that to
happen for some women, but I donot believe that we should do
that to 99% of the femininepopulation.
But that is what we're doing inour culture today.
(08:08):
But then there's the otheraspect which we're here to talk
about as well, which is thatspiritual aspect and the
cultural, the emotional, themental aspects of rite of
passages.
So a rite of passage teaches uswhen we talk about these
feminine rite of passages, whatit is to be a woman in our
culture.
So your listeners and yourself,I just want to take you back to
(08:30):
when you had your first bleed,because that informed you about
what it's like to be a woman inour culture.
And for most women, if they tunein and look back, that was one
of either neutrality or shame.
Very few women in our Westernculture that doesn't celebrate
this, that doesn't honor this,that doesn't really honor
(08:52):
actually the feminine in men orwomen or anyone in our culture
truly.
We're really into the verymasculine kind of values in our
world, which we all possess allof it.
When a girl usually gets herbleed, it's either silent in her
family or it's like, oh, are youin pain?
(09:13):
Do you need a panadol?
Like there's some sort of, areyou crampy?
Or there might be somejudgmental comments or just, you
know, not very positive.
And usually that's also maybearound the girls.
Maybe she's first or in middleor in the last.
And there's always some sort of,ooh, I was first or I was last
or it came at school and I bledthrough my pants or whatever.
(09:35):
My dad told me, are you...
Do you have PMS?
There's like this negativeconnotation.
We learn very early what it'slike to be a woman in our
society through our rite ofpassage, the first one, it
informs us.
Very rarely do a woman or agirl, I mean, hear, wow welcome
to womanhood and now you cancreate life let me teach you how
(09:57):
to move in your cycle so thatyou best are served by that
cycle you know how we canactually as cyclic being live
with our four seasons during themonth so that we are
harmoniously moving through lifeand not have maybe this really
crampy painful periods or end upwith so much disease in our
wombs This is very correlated tothe way we live, the stress
(10:19):
levels, how we eat, how we areso disconnected to our bodies,
shape, all of these things thatsit so deeply, also rooted in
how we met the first rite.
Now, we're not here to talkabout that.
We're jumping into the birthportal now.
But it really informs you,though, doesn't it?
It informs you so early on.
And you're also generallymedicated.
So when you get to this timewhen you're going to pass
(10:41):
through the second rite ofpassage, so many women do it
unconsciously.
And also don't realize themassive shift she's going to go
through.
Not only as she conceives a babydoes her brain starts to change
and it continues throughpregnancy, birth and postpartum
for two years.
She's losing gray matter.
(11:02):
She's adding new pathways.
She's reprogramming herpersonality.
And this again...
We meet like, oh, you have mommybrain.
Oh, you're so forgetful.
Or, you know, there's jokes, butthere's like, it's usually a
negative kind of way that youtalk about mommy brain.
And I talk about it.
What a sacred gift.
You can rewire your brain.
(11:23):
You can choose now who you aretoday.
You can totally transform andyou can be, you know, active in
that, in that doing.
You don't have to be passive andthis victim to it.
No.
What do you want to feed yourbrain with?
You know, it's there, obviously,for us to be primed to be this
amazing caregiver to our child,obviously.
And that will be what takes upmost of a mama's brain,
(11:47):
especially, you know, in thatbeginning, the postpartum time,
and it should.
But then we also have theopportunity to be very mindful
of what we feed our brain with,for example.
UNKNOWN (11:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:57):
As you see, I can talk forever about this.
Is there something that's comingup for you that you want to stop
me?
SPEAKER_03 (12:02):
Well, I'm...
Okay, so I'm trying to like...
I was processing as you weretalking because I'm one of three
sisters.
I'm the middle.
And my older sister, she's quitedramatic.
And I was very like...
She's an artist and I was verylike logical and blah, blah.
Anyway, so she's five and a halfyears older than me.
And I remember when she got herfirst period, my mom...
(12:26):
my parents are pretty woo woo somy mom had over her like women's
circle and they she had sewn ohmy god I'm getting like armpit
sweats thinking about it she hadsewn this really beautiful white
nightgown for my sister and theydid a ceremony for her with my
mom's friends this like thisrite of passage ceremony and I
(12:49):
remember sitting at the top ofthe stairs looking down through
the banister being like Thatlooks like the worst fucking
thing to ever happen.
Like, I'd rather be dead thansit in the middle of that circle
while these women do this, like,rite of passage ceremony.
And when I got my period, whichI got it, like, quote, pretty
late relative to, like, the age.
(13:10):
So I was maybe, like, 15.
And I didn't tell anyone becauseI was like, I do not...
want to be in a nightie with mymom's vegan homeschooling
friends having this rite ofpassage ceremony.
And interestingly, I did thesame thing with my birth.
So I've never been medicated.
(13:31):
I birthed unmedicated.
I birthed like Prettypowerfully, but alone.
And then I parented alone and Ilike kind of went through these,
but I, you know, there's timesthat I can feel like the
isolation in it, but I actuallyfound that I felt the most
powerful when I was like kind oflike recharging what I needed.
Like I kept my own sacred space.
(13:53):
And so I'm kind of I'm trying tohold how like listening to your
words, the rite of passage beinglike, where did I sit?
Because periods weren't that bigof a deal in my house.
But all I kept thinking is, I donot want this to be like a
public declaration of this riteof passage.
And I feel like that continuedon through my stages.
So I don't know.
(14:13):
I don't know what you have tosay about that.
It made me laugh thinking aboutthe ceremony of it being so
honored and cherished in myfamily of origin.
SPEAKER_01 (14:22):
Yeah.
You know, there's no right andwrong, right?
Some, you know, some who've hada positive experience, you know,
might have had their parents golike, wow, now we get to go out
and we'll shop something in redfor you.
There's some sort ofsignificance or there's some
sort of honoring or just liketonight we have a nice dinner,
you know, whatever.
It could be a marking like thator just kind words or something
(14:44):
positive.
It doesn't need to be a ceremonywith woo-woo stuff, right?
And it sounds like you just, youknow, with the personality and
the human being you are, thatwas just how you did not want to
be.
Yeah.
(15:15):
a shameful experience thatreally, you know, and it's also,
it teaches us about our cultureat large, not just our family,
but just like how we weretreated at school by boys, by
girls, by, by teachers.
How did they speak about it?
TV, you know, society as a, as alarge teaches us as you know,
what it means to be women in ourculture through that.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:36):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
The same with going through the other two, which
both very much pathologize asbeing woman, truly, and strips
woman off her power.
And even women who want to havea natural birth or want to claim
it as her own, if they step in,which most people do, step into
(15:58):
the hospital system, and evensometimes in the birth center
and home birth midwives also,there is a...
power imbalance where she stillbecomes um the damsel in
distress and especially thefirst time when we talk about
maiden to mother so there's abeautiful other saying that the
maiden can't birth a baby sheneeds to step away and the
(16:20):
mother need to needs to you knowsurface and she's the only one
who is powerful enough to gothrough the right passage of
birth and birth her baby itneeds to be the death of the
maiden and the birth of themother through the birth portal
and yes that you know that canhappen in all kinds of births it
doesn't have to be a naturalbirth absolutely not you can
(16:41):
have an empowering and positivebirth experience in any birth
setting with cesarean withmedicalized birth in all you
know shapes and forms it isabout how you are treated and
the energy you come in with andif you're owning that experience
or not if you are coming in as apatient or a victim or if you're
coming in as that mama lionesschoosing your medicalized birth
(17:01):
choosing your cesarean whateveryou're choosing that it's coming
from a empowerment and not avictimhood or that damsel that
needs to be rescued
SPEAKER_03 (17:10):
right yeah the loss of loss of your voice and um and
like a feeling of a like failurealready that like they had to I
mean look at the language ofbirth um this language of like
good thing we're here to saveyou from your body's inability
to birth and I know I likeroared into motherhood um like I
don't know what happened but Ihulked out of my maiden skin and
(17:32):
I came like I just came to lifeIt's when I started Bebo Mia.
I just took on the world bystorm and it was just really
profound.
And so with these transitions,obviously things have to, I
mean, sometimes they have to dieor they have to step away or we
outgrow them.
So what are some of the thingsyou would identify from this
(17:54):
journey from maiden to motherthat we've shed in order to
really step into that motherrole?
SPEAKER_01 (17:59):
Some women will go through this.
Clinging consciously orunconsciously to their maiden
and never very lately in theirlife step into the mother.
And you know them.
You know women who are in their40s, 50s who are still acting
like 14-year-olds.
So it doesn't necessarily meanjust because you go through this
rite of passage that youactually do what it's meant to
(18:21):
be doing for you.
Again, it is how we approach it.
Whatever kind of birth we have,but there is something magical
about physiological birth thatwe can't get away from.
And that's not negating thatsometimes it ends up being
medical or we're needing otherways of birthing.
But the physiology and thehormones does something very
(18:42):
powerful to women.
We experience the highest we canwhen it comes to the oxytocin
peak.
We have an altered stage ofconsciousness.
you know, the rush of endorphinsand opiates in our own system.
If you've gone through it, youknow that, I mean, so many women
will exclaim hours or evenminutes after birth, I want to
(19:02):
have another baby.
I need to do this again.
They're ready to take on theworld.
Like you said, they become thesereally powerful women that know
their worth and know their powerand don't take any more shit.
There's something that happensas you go through that and
understand how powerful you are.
If you've birthed a baby, youcan do anything because it's
bloody hard.
And so it's just this massivechallenge, right?
(19:25):
This rite of passage.
as she's showing you your power,as I said, right?
We start to practice when webleed.
It shows to us really, trulythrough birth.
And then we become it as we gothrough the fire of menopause.
And so this is what 99.9% ofwomen don't experience,
unfortunately, in our currentmaternity system.
SPEAKER_03 (19:48):
Yeah.
It's almost extinct.
Yeah, it is.
And even like, when we talk iswhat is the role of mother?
And really at this point,because of the patriarchy and
white supremacy and capitalism,the role of motherhood is an
enslaved role of just likeadding more tasks to her to-do
list.
And so it's no surprise thatit's really hard that I find
(20:12):
women simultaneously don't stepinto the powerful role of mother
because they're exhausted by thework of motherhood.
And then they cling to like, Iused to have fun going out
dancing with my friends.
I used to do all of thesethings.
My body used to look like this.
And so we're in this kind oflike transition no man's like
(20:33):
this, you know, this nothingnessof exhaustion and this
disconnect because we don't getto be powerful.
We don't get to actually raiseour children in a way that is
like you know, the role of, ofraising our children.
Instead we, you know, keep themalive and fill out a lot of
forms and buy them lots of shit.
(20:54):
And, and so I feel like a lot ofgrief when I look at where
motherhood is and what I wishfor motherhood, like, which is,
you know, why I started BabelMia and I wanted to empower
people going through thisjourney so that they could
powerfully parent and, and, youknow, go through, see their own
kind of gifts come to fruitionand pass them on to their
(21:18):
children i
SPEAKER_01 (21:19):
think a lot of women when they wake up after having a
baby the first time are likehave this cold shower of
realizing that we live in asociety in a world that actually
doesn't honor women or mothersand that very much like the old
saying of like children supposedto be seen but not heard is also
applicable to mothers that it'snot a supported role, as you
(21:44):
were saying.
Some countries, I know, youknow, Canada, Sweden, we have
better kind of maternity leaveand a bit of more support.
Better.
Still, I was going to say,still, it's not even coming
close to what women actuallyneed as they become new mothers.
We don't have a support network.
We don't live in the tribe, inthe community like we used to.
We're so isolated and alone.
And some thrive like yourself.
(22:05):
You know, we're all differentthere.
But ultimately, whoever we are,we need the practical and
emotional support and women arenot getting that.
And that is a massive thing thatI think contributes to the high
level of postpartum depressionthat we're seeing.
I do not believe that all ofthat is chemical.
I think a large portion of thosewomen are just isolated and so
(22:28):
alone and no one should motheralone if they don't want to.
SPEAKER_03 (22:35):
No, I mean, I would have really loved to have a
great support network.
I found myself mothering alone.
That was not the plan.
SPEAKER_01 (22:42):
Right.
And that's the thing, you know,it's, you know, that's the
thing.
So the rite of passage made intomother is it's so multilayered.
So, yeah.
there is that death of themaiden and the birth of the
mother that needs to happen.
We can talk about that, youknow, the identity crisis that
most women in our modern societygoes through because no one
talks about it.
(23:03):
It's just that kind of, oh,sleep now before the babies come
because then you can't.
And, you know, but it's notreally talked about as you know
i see that you know having gonewith walks with so many women
through this portal that theones and they are not many but
the ones who truly understandthat they are now actually
(23:24):
sacrificing the maiden to go andthey are willing to do so for
the love of wanting to be amother and have a child and they
are surrendering into that roleand they're surrendering their
old life to to now dive into thenew they move through this
portal with much lessfrustration and doesn't end up
in the suffering that so manywomen do as they kind of are hit
(23:46):
with this postpartum going likeoh I can't do all the things
that I did before I thought Icould just take my baby with me
everywhere and just be the sameperson and they have to then go
through that grief for maybe avery long extended period of
time for a year or two yearslonger before they end up
accepting where they are.
And I wish women didn't have togo through suffering like they
do, but that we can honestlytalk about that it's gonna
(24:08):
happen.
There needs to be a death of theold and a birth of the new.
You're not gonna, if you're veryhighly identified with your
career and you have to leavethat for a while, you have to
find like, you have to findaccomplishment and fulfillment
in being mother and beingsomething else than what you
identify with.
(24:29):
You can go back to that.
You're never going to go backthe same because you're going to
be changed.
Values are going to change.
Your personality will change.
It's going to happen.
And if you don't accept thatchange, you are going to suffer
until you do.
What you persist persists.
That's just the truth.
SPEAKER_03 (24:46):
Yeah.
And I want to just clarify,because as we're talking about
the role of mother, like itfeels important to say what it
is, because again, all peoplewill typically say is like, I
mean, the risk of hearing whatyou're saying is fall in love
with filling out forms anddriving to daycare and, and
filling out, you know, buyingbirthday gifts for kids you'd
(25:08):
barely know from Gymboree.
And like, you know, that is Thatis not motherhood.
So let's just clarify so thatpeople don't think that in any
way, shape or form, we'retelling them to fall in love
with their 24-7 job of cookingand cleaning and doing the act
of the work of raising children.
(25:28):
What is this role of motherhood?
What does it include?
SPEAKER_01 (25:35):
Well, let's unpack that together.
I mean, what does it mean foryou?
Tell me what that means for you.
SPEAKER_03 (25:40):
Well, One of the things that I found has been the
most powerful for me in my roleas mother is Continuing to very
intentionally, consistentlydoing my own healing work and
then teaching this to mydaughter.
And that takes a lot of time.
Like that takes a lot of time,different modalities of
integrating, of journaling, ofReiki, of breathwork, of Cairo
(26:03):
massage therapy, like spendingtime in nature, like really
being committed to doing betterfor her.
And I would say that's like oneof the biggest pillars.
And it's the pillar that I'vewatched her grow.
Like, cause obviously my work isgetting like faster and easier
the older I get.
And it's getting easier to havethe kind of relationship that's
more adult because she's goingto be 18 this summer.
(26:25):
And so, you know, that work wascritical and I got to do a lot
of it through my actual paidlabor, starting becoming a doula
when she was a baby.
And so I, I, I see the role ofmodeling for her.
So like I came out again, Ican't, I, I, I came out as gay
(26:46):
in college and then was like,oh, I don't know how this is
going to make my life reallyuncomfortable.
And then was in a heterorelationship for two years and
then came out again.
And so I was like that act ofliving my truth and showing her
as a baby and like having hersee me you know, exist
powerfully in the world andchallenge systems and advocate
(27:09):
to protect her voice.
And, you know, these are thethings, as well as some of the
really important skills that Iwant her to have.
So, like, it's important thatshe feels comfortable talking
about money and politics andfeels competent moving through
her life, whether she wants todo those tasks or contract them
out.
But, like, I wanted her to feelcompetent as she existed in the
(27:31):
world.
SPEAKER_01 (27:31):
Yeah.
Well, it sounds like what I hearyou're saying is that you're
really embodying the mamalioness that we spoke about,
SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
right?
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
That, you know, the protector and the provider and
the sustainer and the nurturerof your child.
And that is what being a parent,right?
Motherhood.
And then we can talk about whatthat looks like for everyone and
different, you know, foreveryone.
But I guess it's the...
I think to...
(28:01):
survive also this world like wejust discussed that doesn't
support mothers or parents justdoesn't support at all to be
able to survive that and notdrown potentially in what you
just explained to reallyacknowledge that actually that
(28:21):
this is the most important jobon the planet and to like lean
into the importance of everyday, every mundane, boring,
hard, exhausting moment that youhave birthed new life.
Your job now and forevermore isto serve this new being.
And that might or might not sitwell with you, but that's the
(28:44):
truth.
You've birthed new life.
You are now the caregiver andthe custodian of, you know,
protecting and letting thathuman being obviously find their
own feet and who they are in theworld.
You're not there to reallyinfluence that, you know, to
support that new human to findtheir own way in the world.
And that is the job of becominga parent.
(29:04):
That is the truth.
job now not everyone and verymany don't claim that role they
might just want to have childrenbut also live their life that
they did before and not ready toclaim that actually birthing new
life does give you also theresponsibility of being 100% 24
7 therefore a human being andwhen you have that realization
and you and you accept it andyou lean into it it can give you
(29:27):
a great sense of purpose trulyin life and what is life if not
purpose without purpose andbeing of service actually
there's no happiness now somepeople are like no no no but
actually you know if you look atthat research and everything
what is happiness we're strivingto be happy all the time we're
not happy all the time butfulfillment contentment comes of
(29:49):
being of purpose andself-service and that is
motherhood that is parenthoodAnd if you lean into that, you
can, I think, more so easilyhandle all the shit show that
goes on around you and how hardit is sometimes than if you
resist that.
SPEAKER_03 (30:07):
Yeah.
And I fully, just everybodylistening, because I know I had
a really nice answer for what Ithink Raising Gray is and my
role as mother, but my firstyears were so hard.
They were so hard coming out.
They were so hard in litigation,for custody, which obviously...
I had all the time.
They were so hard withpostpartum mood disorder that
(30:29):
was undiagnosed for two and ahalf years.
And I felt like I could tellthat I wasn't fulfilling my my
role like the true essence ofthe role of motherhood and I
remember feeling so angry aboutit because I was like I'm
wearing you all the time I'mbreastfeeding you I'm you're
never put down you sleep with meand I was like so resentful but
(30:51):
I was like doing all the thingsof like quote attachment
parenting being like why is thisso terrible and it's never
ending and so like this is whatyou know Anne and I are talking
about everyone is like it youit's like more about the what
you're doing like the why andnot the what you're doing
because I was following theactions of you know really
(31:12):
intense attachment parenting butI was suffering and hated I
hated being a mom but Iobviously had this like intense
love and this like I want I wanther to be wonderful and it
wasn't until I stopped resistingwhich took a very many years
after that to take up the liketrue role of motherhood And I
(31:35):
had to do a lot of healing workwith Gray to go back and say, I
didn't honor my role as yourmom, even though we were
together all the time.
And I like on paper was aperfect parent.
And it's been profound.
And just like if it's hopefulfor anybody listening, it was
such an easy process to healfrom that once you name it.
(31:56):
Like once I said to her, like, Iwasn't present, even though I
was next to you all the time.
And I didn't know how to do thisjob.
And I'm learning to do it withyou right now.
And kids are so...
generous with their malleabilityand their open hearts and it was
great because i could pick upeven though i didn't really
(32:17):
understand it until she wasprobably like 10 years old um
and then didn't really reallyunderstand it until she was like
15 years old um and and so ijust want to hold that in case
anybody's feeling grief or likeyou feel like you might have
missed that or done it wrong orlike you you're interested in
upholding the role of mother ina different way
SPEAKER_01 (32:36):
yeah and
SPEAKER_03 (32:38):
so
SPEAKER_01 (32:39):
You did the best you could with the circumstances you
had.
And I think one really, reallycrucial thing is to have radical
self-acceptance through thejourney in a fucked up world
that doesn't support.
If you had done all thosethings, but you had this massive
support network that you couldlean into and rest in that like
24 seven was around you couldlike also hold your baby, cook
(33:01):
for you, clean for you, care foryou, then you wouldn't feel so
resentful.
You would have been filled up byother people.
We don't have that, but that is,that is the origin though.
That's how we used to live notlong ago.
Also in our Western countries,we had our, we lived in, you
know, more of like family, youknow, units, maybe grandma and
grandpa and mom and dad,everyone lived together or at
(33:22):
least close by in the village.
There was a totally differentsupport network that we do not
have.
And so the role today is notalmost possible to do.
especially
SPEAKER_03 (33:33):
possible it
SPEAKER_01 (33:34):
is impossible so you have to have yeah well the thing
so you have to have radicalself-acceptance through this and
you can only do the best of yourability and so you have to you
can't blame yourself for thatbecause you can't be super human
you're not yeah you were nevermeant to be so i think radical
like grace and compassionself-acceptance through this
(33:57):
role is So important becauseyou're doing it in a way that
is, as you say, actuallyimpossible to do it right.
SPEAKER_03 (34:05):
Yeah, for sure.
Oh my gosh, I have so manyquestions.
One of them just popped in.
I had one that I was going toask, but I actually...
How, as we're looking at thesystems and the people around
this person going through thistransformation from maiden to
mother, what are your thoughtsor what comments do you have
(34:26):
about...
how terrifying that is for menin general.
And so, like, how the role inthe hetero context of the, like,
role of fatherhood coming insimultaneously.
Again, all my queers, we'retalking hetero here.
Like, what impact?
(34:47):
Because, you know, throughoutmodern history, there's been a
medication, there's been anumbing.
Like, the whole idea is to...
take away and rob women of theirpower.
What do we do in this situationwhere it's terrifying to
witness?
And so we're having thisdramatic pull with the role of
(35:09):
mother and father and thecomplete inequity in everything
that those two roles hold.
SPEAKER_01 (35:16):
What was your question in that?
So if we would speak about justmen, when it comes to birth, and
also parenthood for that matter,but are even less prepared by
society, less prepared, haveabsolutely no clue.
If women have very little clueabout the transition she's gonna
(35:37):
go through, the man has none,and also no then understanding
what's happening after she'sbirthed.
So for a lot of women, forexample, There is no desire,
some have desire, but some haveno desire for intimacy or
penetration for months,sometimes even years postpartum.
You know, being in thebreastfeeding relationship, if
she's doing that for a longperiod of time, her own identity
(36:00):
crisis, navigating this new rolethat is not supported in
society, drowning most likely inthat and then having a partner
that is not equipped doesn'tunderstand the woman's needs or
what she's going through thechanges of her brain her whole
chemistry and that she feelstouched out most of the time
doesn't want intimacy which forhim is the way she shows love
(36:22):
and he shows love so he doesn'tfeel appreciated and loved so
many couples in the heterosexualrelationships fail in the first
year postpartum so many So manydoesn't make it to one year
because they're not prepared.
No one's prepared for therelationship to change.
The man's not ready for thiswoman to fully change.
Maybe she was on the pill aswell before.
(36:43):
So she's doing a massive shiftof how she feels about him or,
and she's just in this mama babyunit, which is what nature
intended, right?
But in our society where there'sthis nuclear family and no one
understands this, thedisconnection happens for most
couples, for a lot of couplesanyways.
So they're not equipped.
And when it comes to the birthportal, of course, they're
(37:05):
scared.
Men have never been in the birthspace throughout all of time.
It's always been women'sbusiness.
It's only really been, what,maybe 50 years that they've been
divided in?
Yeah, I was going to say 70years.
Maybe, different in everycountry.
Yeah.
Right?
So it's like...
It's really new and for most ofthat time also he has got no
(37:26):
instructions of what he can do,how he can support his woman.
I can't tell you how many as amidwife in the hospital I saw
men sitting on their phonesbeing disconnected as the woman
is lying on the bed with anepidural and there's just
absolutely total disconnectionto what's happening in that
room.
But then there's some men thatdefinitely steps up, more so in
the home birth and birth center,birth space, because there is
(37:49):
more of an awareness usuallyaround those couples and those
women choosing that.
And that relationship usually ismore also connected to those
choices and wanting to be moresovereign in decision-making and
educating themselves.
And I've seen amazing men stepup in the birth space.
You know, his role is to be thepresent presence.
(38:10):
That is his gift as themasculine, actually.
They were amazing at anchoringwomen in labor and being a
steady rock that is what sheneeds from him she doesn't need
him to be in his feminine orlike cuddle her he just needs to
be present hold her be theanchor she can hang from him he
can you know hold her up he canabsolutely give her love and
(38:31):
touch and words of affirmationsbut then she needs a feminine
presence that has seen birthmany times that can really help
her through the scary part oftransition when she's freaking
out or when she's pushing herbaby out the man in that moment
usually doesn't know how tocoach his woman through that
that is where the wise womansits at her side and helps her
(38:52):
through that
SPEAKER_03 (38:56):
oh we've done such a number on birth this like such a
powerful like oh my goodness uhum if we're looking at you know,
what would be some words ofwisdom that you would want to
pass on to somebody who mightbe, you know, preparing to go
through this rite of passage,assuming they have some time to
(39:18):
maybe do some tweaking and fixsome, plug some of these holes
that we're talking about, evenif they're not necessarily
wanting a spiritual birth, butto like really prepare them for
this rite of passage.
SPEAKER_01 (39:33):
Decide to claim it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(39:53):
That is not something that isjust woo-woo and made up.
It's very strong.
And as women, when you'repregnant, the veils between the
worlds are very thin and youhave a stronger sense of inner
knowing.
And you need to trust that.
You're also very malleableduring pregnancy and very
impressionable.
So guard your space.
(40:14):
Look within and find the answersand then go out and seek what
you want.
Whatever kind of birth that isthat feels in alignment for you.
and take charge in a way thatprepare, learn about that.
Learn also about, you know, seekout and learn about the maiden
to mother transition and learnabout, understand that you are
going to go through an identitycrisis, that that's supposed to
(40:36):
happen.
Your brain will change, yourpersonality will change, your
values and everything willchange and start in pregnancy
already grieve what you need togrieve because it's a part of it
when you a part of you will dieso the maiden will die so start
grieving that which you will belosing and start preparing to
step into the mother who needsto be this sovereign woman that
(40:58):
will not take shit and will notbe walked over you need to step
into her because you're going tonow protect another life so you
can't stay in the maiden youneed to step into the mother and
this is something you canjournal about you can talk about
with others who understand thisyou know seek out that there are
women and we have beautifulconnections now all over the
world through internet you knowfind your community online if
(41:20):
you don't have it where you livebecause most of us are still
spread out And don't live incommunity of amazing tribes of
women that can support usthrough this, right?
So seek them out online, right?
And find your tribe that cansupport you as you navigate this
rite of passage.
And claim it.
That's my words.
Like claim it in your way,whatever that looks like.
(41:41):
Don't give it away becausesomeone else will claim it for
you.
Your doctor, the hospital, themidwife.
Don't give it away.
Claim it.
Own it.
Go into and meet your power.
It's fantastic.
SPEAKER_03 (41:52):
Yeah.
You talked about reason.
yeah be excited be very excitedit's a profound experience um
you talked about resources doyou have a few books that you
recommend that could kick offthis exploration of these rites
of passages for our listenersyes I do um I
SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
don't see anyways it's called um Rachel Reed Dr.
Rachel Reed is an amazingmidwife who's written a book
called Childbirth as a Rite ofPassage
SPEAKER_03 (42:24):
um
SPEAKER_01 (42:24):
Yeah.
And that was good for birthworkers.
It's a part of my Secret BirthWorker Mentorship curriculum
books, you know, but also can beread by women who are really
ready to claim her right.
And in any birth setting.
So Rachel is very good at justexploring, yes, rite of passages
and within also the maternitysetting specifically.
(42:46):
So I would say that one.
For a lighter version, I wouldsay Gentle Birth, Gentle
Mothering by Sarah Buckley.
SPEAKER_03 (42:56):
Good old Sarah.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
Those two would be my probably my, because they
work for anyone having any kindof birth.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (43:05):
Those are great suggestions.
Many of our listeners are alsobirth workers.
So what advice would you want topass on to them so that they can
hold the space, you know, andreally like witness this rite of
passage with their clients?
UNKNOWN (43:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:21):
So...
I do massive unpacking with mystudents about two and a half
months of the deep inner workand I would say that do inner
work so look at your own rite ofpassages how did you experience
your first bleed you know ifyou've birthed we don't want to
carry like this baggage of ourown unconscious baggage that we
(43:43):
haven't worked through so yourown relationship to your body
sexuality your voicerelationship to authority you
know nature being a psychicbeing being a woman what what
What does that mean to you?
Because it's going to affect howyou actually meet another woman
in her labor process.
You know, your own sounding likevoice, right?
So important that you clear yourown throat chakra to be able to
(44:05):
sit with a woman and maybe helpher sound through your sound,
right?
We can deepen with a woman inlabor as we're humming.
So we're deepening our voice.
We don't have to say words.
We can do sounds.
We can embody.
We can sway with her, right?
So I would say so much, I think,actually, the knowledge...
is secondary anyone can be agood space holder in birth if
(44:26):
they are if they can clean andclear themselves to become the
channel between the heavens andthe earth themselves if they can
open up you know in the quantumfield to their heart and womb
and feel and sense and be veryin tune with their intuition
they're going to be the bestspace holder much more so than
someone who knows all the booksand all the knowledge about
other things women don't need toknow positions to being in birth
(44:48):
or like spinning babies theyneed your presence That is
unafraid.
That is what you need to hold asa birth worker.
That's all y'all.
That's all you have to do.
I know I'm passionate
SPEAKER_03 (45:05):
about this.
If you could whisper one truthinto the ear of every woman who
is standing at this thresholdbetween maiden and mother, what
would you whisper in her ear?
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
You're more powerful than you believe.
And this portal is going to showyou just how powerful you are.
SPEAKER_03 (45:27):
That's beautiful.
Thank you.
You have some interestingprograms for both parents and
practitioners coming up thismonth.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (45:39):
Well, yes.
So this month, my sacred birthworker mentorship starts, which
is a year long journey foranyone who wants to become a
birth worker.
So doula or doulas and midwives.
And I also had a pediatrician gothrough it who wants to deepen
into the sacredness of birth andreally become this, as I spoke
about this sacred space holderand cultivate themselves to
(46:03):
become this very powerfulpresence in the birth room.
So we begin on the 19th of Mayand there's still a few spots
left as we're currentlyrecording this if anyone's
amazing
SPEAKER_03 (46:13):
and you have your natural birth course available
too for parents right
SPEAKER_01 (46:18):
Absolutely.
That is evergreen.
So it's always available.
It's an online course that youcan take in your own pace to
prepare for a natural birth.
So it's really primed tooptimize your chances of having
that if you wish to have anatural birth in hospital, birth
center at home, so any birthsetting.
So it's also working a lot onthat, you know, working through
fears and the subconscious mindand doing more than just
(46:39):
learning about the...
the process you know and thephysiology even though it's
obviously you know also coveringthat or from that holistic and
also spiritual way of seeingthis this portal
SPEAKER_03 (46:51):
That's amazing.
And we're going to have all yourchannels so that folks can
connect with you and see what'shappening with you and all the
beautiful work that you do.
I'm just so grateful that youare here today.
I just I love your work.
I think it's really important tonot lose sight of this really
(47:14):
profound element of birth thatunfortunately is systematically
stripped away.
So thank you.
Thank you for doing thisprotective work of that space.
SPEAKER_01 (47:24):
Thank you so much for letting me speak to you.
It's been an absolute pleasure,both on and off recording.
Excellent.
SPEAKER_03 (47:32):
Thank you so much.
All right, y'all.
Bye now.
SPEAKER_00 (47:40):
Want to keep hanging out?
We have created a free mindsetmini course to help change
makers and birth workers findbliss in their business.
You're not in this alone.
Let's build together.
Head to www.babomia.com slashVIB to grab your space and a
free retreat.
Once again, go towww.babomia.com slash VIB to
(48:06):
grab your spot.
We will see you next time on theHot and Brave Podcast.
podcast.
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