July 17, 2025 • 54 mins
Ever wondered why you keep repeating the same patterns or finding yourself in similar situations despite your best efforts? The answer may lie in your personal narrative—the story you've been telling yourself since childhood.
Clinical social worker Ellen Arcamone takes us on a journey into how our personal narratives form, often when we're too young to accurately interpret the world around us. "We come up with the story and take bits and pieces of the movie of our life," Ellen explains. "The problem is we start creating that story when we are very little kids, and it's impossible for us to make sense of what's happening around us."
These narratives aren't merely stories—they're the filters through which we experience everything. They determine how we communicate, form relationships, process emotions, and respond to stress. Most importantly, they're not always based in fact, even though we cling to them as absolute truths.
Through her practice combining Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT), Ellen offers powerful frameworks for recognizing and reshaping our self-limiting beliefs. One particularly valuable skill she shares is "check the facts"—a simple yet transformative approach to distinguishing between our powerful emotions and objective reality.
The conversation delves into radical acceptance, the balance between judgment and curiosity, and how our thoughts directly influence our feelings and behaviors. "Mindset is everything," Ellen states. "Everything starts with a thought. The thoughts are where everything is born, because our thoughts are going to lead directly to a feeling that matches that thought."
What makes this discussion truly special is Ellen's authenticity about her own journey—changing careers at 50 and finding her true calling in helping others discover their authentic selves. Her insights remind us that we're all multidimensional beings capable of growth at any age.
Ready to rewrite your story? Listen now and discover how changing your personal narrative might just be the key to transforming your entire life. Share your thoughts with us and subscribe for more conversations that empower you to live authentically.
Ellen's book recommendation: The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho
More about Ellen:
Ellen Arcamone is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker who uses a client-centered and compassionate, strength-based approach, helping her clients to navigate through life’s transitions and stressors. Ellen believes in the power of change and is extremely passionate about helping her clients to grow, learn, and evolve with a key focus on finding your narrative and changing your story.
Ellen has extensive experience treating addiction, grief, anxiety, depression, adjustment, as well as personality disorders, with a special focus on women’s issues and uses a combination of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), Dialectal Behavioral Therapy (DBT), and Psychodynamic modalities.
https://www.bluestonepsychiatry.health/
House of JerMar: houseofjermar.com.
Instagram: instagram.com/houseofjermar/
YouTube Channel: youtube.com/@Houseofjermar
Read Jeanne's Book: Two Feet In: Lessons From and All-In Life
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What is a personal?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
narrative.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Well, in simple terms , jean, a personal narrative is
our story about ourself.
It's the story we come up withabout ourself, that we tell
ourself.
It's a self-concept and it'sshaped by our subjective
experiences and it is not alwaysfactually correct.
(00:25):
That is.
The problem is that we come upwith the story and we kind of
take bits and pieces of themovie of our life.
We string these thoughts andbeliefs together to come up with
a story.
The problem, main problem, withthe narrative, is that we start
(00:46):
creating that story when we arevery little kids and it is
impossible for us to make senseof what's happening around us or
make sense about our place inwhat's happening around us.
So we come up with our ownversion of that.
For better or worse, it's thescript we stick to, typically
(01:08):
until we find that that scriptis really getting in the way of
us being effective in life.
And then, hopefully, we go andtalk to somebody and we figure
out that we've got the story allmixed up.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Welcome to the House of Germar podcast, where
wellness starts within.
The House of Germar is alifestyle brand, empowering
women to live all in throughinterior design and personal
wellness.
We are a destination for womenready to reimagine what is
possible in their homes andlives and then create it.
We are honored to have you joinus on our mission to empower 1
(01:46):
million women to live all in.
I am your host, Jean Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
Welcome to the House of Jarmarpodcast, where wellness starts
with it.
I'm your host, Jean Collins,and today we are going to talk
about social work and we'regoing to talk about your brain
and how you think and yournarrative.
I can't wait.
(02:07):
This is an episode that is foreveryone.
We all have a narrative.
So today's guest, EllenArchimonde.
I am so excited to have her onhere.
I'm going to read a little bitof her bio, just because I want
to give you guys a high levelabout her, so I'm going to have
to read it, but it will also bein the show notes, so I just
(02:31):
want you to know.
Ellen has extensive experiencetreating addiction, grief,
anxiety, depression, adjustment,as well as personality
disorders, with a special focuson women's issues and she uses
stuff we're going to get into,because I don't know a lot about
all of this.
She uses cognitive behavioraltherapy CBT that I've heard of
and one I've never heard ofdialectal behavior therapy.
I am so excited to talk to you,Ellen.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Thank you so much, Jean.
I'm so happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Oh, I am so happy you are here.
So, just so everybody knows,ellen and I live in the same
town.
We belong to a women'snetworking group and we got
together for coffee and realizedwe just personally have so much
in common.
We are both Leos, we just hadso much to chat about and
normally I'm sort of like, okay,you're a social worker, okay,
that's cool, all right, whatever.
But as soon as we started totalk, she started talking about
(03:16):
this whole concept of personalnarrative and I was just so
interested and fascinated withthe work that she does and her
practice, and not only that, herjourney to get to where she is,
which is really just empowering, exciting, and her following
her passions to do something sheloves.
So I asked her if she'd bewilling to be on the show, which
I'm so grateful for your time.
So, thank you, thank you.
(03:36):
So before we get started, Ialways love to talk about
people's journeys just a littlebit, because you didn't start
out saying like I want to be aclinical social worker or maybe
you did, but I don't think youdid.
So if you can share witheverybody a little bit about
your career journey and how yougot to where you are today, Sure
.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Well, I can say it definitely was not a linear
process.
It was not one way straightahead.
It was taking a lot of twistsand turns and I started out
wanting to be a teacher andquickly changed my major to
psychology and got myself intothe School of Social Work, went
(04:16):
on to get my master's degree insocial work and when I came out
of graduate school I worked forabout three years in
community-based programs, mostlyin lower Westchester, and then
left the field.
I had a personal tragedy andfelt that at that time my heart
(04:37):
just wasn't in it anymore.
I felt that I wanted to take asafer route and went into a
field in the corporate worldwhere I felt that my heart would
be safe and I wouldn't need tobe vulnerable.
So I stayed in that world forapproximately 12 years and
(05:03):
towards the end of that time itwas very clear to me that I was
not in the right place and thiswas not going to be a good fit
for me, that, whether I wantedto accept it or not, my heart
was in being a therapist andconnecting with people and
helping people.
So I bridged that gap back intothe field and fast forward.
(05:28):
I found myself working at apsychiatric hospital, a local
hospital, and fell into thewomen's program there completely
accidentally and before I knewit.
I was sitting in front of agroup of 10 to 15 women every
morning for three hours a daydoing the outpatient program and
(05:50):
, at 50 years old, finally foundmy place in that group.
From the first group that I did, I knew that that is where I
wanted to be, that is what Iwanted to do.
It felt like coming home.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I love that.
I love coming home.
Okay, and just to wrap up yourstory, because I interrupted you
, but I love the emotion of youfeeling at 50, you would finally
come home.
We're going to come back tothat, so I'm gonna let you
continue.
Sorry to interrupt.
Let you continue.
Sorry to interrupt.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
That's okay.
It was a long journey and, as Isaid, one that was completely
unexpected.
Even just falling into thatgroup was accidental.
There Somebody was stepping out.
I was new.
They needed somebody to fill in.
It was going to be temporary atfirst and turned out to be
(06:42):
permanent.
As I said, I felt that it was aperfect match and turned out to
be permanent.
As I said, I felt that it was aperfect match.
And then, after spending sometime at the hospital and getting
the most amazing experiencewith a group of clinical people
that were just so inspiring Ilearned so much from them I felt
that it was time to move on andinto private practice and
(07:03):
joined a couple of doctors fromthat same hospital at a local
practice here in town where I'vebeen for the last few years now
.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
So you are now your own boss.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
I am my own boss now.
How does?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
that feel.
If you think back to thatperson who was back in that job
that you decided wasn't a fitand you could talk to them about
where you are now, how doesthat feel?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
It feels surreal at times and, as I said before,
unexpected.
Again, the journey really isunexpected.
The way you plan for things tohappen never is the way it
actually happens and in myexperience I have found it's
always so much more amazing thanyou ever could have pictured
(07:46):
for yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
So, to answer your question, it is way more than I
ever could have dreamed for wantis they want help to get to
that place in whatever area oflife it is that they're trying
to work on.
(08:07):
Everyone wants to feel likethey're at home and they have
landed and they're purposedriven and they're where they're
supposed to be at that time oflife.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes, definitely.
And also, maybe the mostimportant message of all is that
it's never too late.
Right that when I remember themoment sitting there and
thinking, wow, at 50, really, Ijust have arrived, right, so
just starting, just gettingstarted.
Right, the motor was justgetting started, and that is the
(08:38):
absolute truth.
So whoever is out therelistening, thinking that their
ship has sailed and it is toolate for them, it's never too
late.
It is never too late.
I'm proof of that Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
We both are yes, yes, yeah, all right.
So I have a very fundamentalbasic question what is the
difference between a socialworker and a psychiatrist and
just people who considerthemselves therapists?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Right?
Well, I think the maindifference between a clinical
social worker at LCSW and apsychiatrist is the medical
degree.
So a psychiatrist is a medicaldoctor and a clinical social
worker is not.
And then there is apsychologist who is not a
medical doctor, kind of inbetween, and their focus is on
(09:31):
research and testing.
Clinical social worker is ontherapy.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Okay, I got it.
That might have been basic, butI'm sure I'm not the only
person who has that question,because people throw away the
terms therapist out there a lot.
That question because peoplethrow away the terms therapist
out there a lot and they're notall the same.
Yes, and from what little Iknow about this, not all
therapists specialize in thesame modalities in terms of how
they help their patients, socould you explain a little bit
(09:58):
about that?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yes, so modality of treatment is different.
The modality of treatment thatI primarily use is a combination
of CBT and DBT cognitivebehavioral therapy, which
focuses on our thoughts, anddialectical behavioral therapy,
which is a spinoff of cognitivebehavioral therapy, broken up
(10:22):
into four modules and offers aset of tangible skills.
That modality of treatment wascreated by a woman called Marsha
Linehan in the 80s, and shecame up with this modality of
treatment as she was once apatient herself.
So, having found that nothingwas helping her, she created
(10:46):
this out of the University ofWashington and is still
practicing there today, Ibelieve.
Okay, so one deals with thinkingand the other deals with
modalities therapy focuses onthe connection between thoughts,
(11:08):
feelings and behaviors, thedifference being it's broken up
into modules for and offerstangible skills to use, so
they're called DBT skills.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Got it?
And are the modules like steps,like that you walk somebody
through?
Speaker 1 (11:19):
They are organized by groupings, so they're broken up
into mindfulness, interpersonaleffectiveness, distress,
tolerance and emotion regulation.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Ooh, all terms, I really like, I like that.
Okay, we're going to dig intothat a little bit more, because
I'm going to ask you to give mean example in a little bit Sure,
before we do that, I want totalk about personal narrative,
because that was what we weretalking about when we met for
coffee, that I was so interestedin this concept of personal
narrative.
So what is a personal narrative.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, in simple terms , jean, a personal narrative is
our story about ourself.
It's the story we come up withabout ourself, that we tell
ourself.
It's a self-concept and it'sshaped by our subjective
experiences and it is not alwaysfactually correct.
(12:18):
That is.
The problem is that we come upwith the story and we kind of
take bits and pieces of themovie of our life.
We string these thoughts andbeliefs together to come up with
a story.
The problem, main problem, withthe narrative, is that we start
(12:39):
creating that story when we arevery little kids and it is
impossible for us to make senseof what's happening around us or
make sense about our place inwhat's happening around us.
So we come up with our ownversion of that.
For better or worse, it's thescript we stick to, typically
(13:01):
until we find that that scriptis really getting in the way of
us being effective in life.
And then, hopefully, we go andtalk to somebody and we figure
out that we've got the story allmixed up.
Now another issue with thatstory is that it really does
determine the way you're goingto show up in every aspect of
(13:22):
your life.
So back to the DBT.
It affects the way you're goingto show up in every aspect of
your life.
So back to the DBT.
It affects the way youcommunicate with others, it
affects the way you show up inyour relationships.
It affects the way you regulateyour emotions, the way you're
able to tolerate distress.
So very important to figure outwhat your story is, ask
(13:44):
yourself if it's true and thenseek the true version of that
story.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
How I'm thinking about, like maybe parts of my
story right of how I was growingup, and it makes total sense
when you think about I mightremember situations in a certain
way or I might assume orproject emotions onto someone
else who was part of my storythat are not valid, because that
(14:11):
might not be how it reallyhappened.
But how does a patient gothrough like?
Where do you find the truth?
How do you know what the truthis?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
what the truth is.
Well, that's such a greatquestion, jean.
I think that we need to beskillful in determining what
that truth is.
We have to remember thoughtsand feelings, although
incredibly valid and so powerful, they are not facts.
Facts are facts.
So there is a skill in DBTcalled check the facts.
It is one of my favorites.
I use it personally all thetime and it kind of goes like
(14:51):
this that's a really interestingidea and a really strong
feeling, but do we have anyproof that that is true, real
proof?
So, for instance, maybesomebody's narrative is oh, I'm
so stupid I can't do anythingright.
I never say anything right.
That may be the dialogue thatyou're running in your head.
(15:12):
However, where's your proofthat that's actually true,
concrete proof?
Do we have any?
And the way that it works isthat if we check and we come up
with nothing, we need to bewilling to let that idea go and
perhaps embrace a more accurateversion of what the truth is.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Interesting.
So how does mindset play inthat If you have a thought,
we'll just use you know, I'mstupid, I'm not good at anything
, I can't be successful.
And if that's your thought andyou can realize through working
with someone like you that it'snot based in fact, so maybe that
thought isn't true.
Where does mindset play in whatyou do next?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Where does mindset play in what you do next?
Well, mindset is everything,because everything starts with a
thought.
The thoughts are whereeverything is born, because our
thoughts are going to leaddirectly to a feeling that
matches that thought.
The feeling is a direct resultof what we're thinking, and then
the behavior is a springboardoff of that emotion.
(16:22):
So mindset is everything.
It sets the tone for everythingthat's going to come later.
So it is changing your ideasabout who you are.
And be willing to embrace theidea that there might be another
way to look at things.
(16:42):
Maybe we can't believe it fullyin the beginning, so we can
start with maybe just believingthere might be another way to
see this, just one other versionof this story.
So as soon as we can shift ourperception, even just a
millimeter, everything followsthat.
(17:03):
Then the feeling will match thenew thought that we have, and
then there's no way that ourbehavior can be the same,
because everything else isrealigned.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Interesting, so it feels to me like it's a process.
Yes, it's a journey.
Yes, how do you help yourclients through that process on
a weekly basis, because theystill have to be living life.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Well, I think that the first step is to figure out
what your story is in the firstplace what is the story?
And then helping them figureout where in the world we came
up with the story.
How did we get this version ofyourself?
Oftentimes, others see us moreaccurately than we see ourself,
(17:58):
and not that we need to investeverything into other people's
opinions, because that's adangerous game as well.
However, again, just be willingto entertain the idea that
there might be another way oflooking at things and looking at
yourself.
Right.
So it's uncovering the story,going back, replaying, going
(18:19):
back into childhood not for toolong, just long enough to figure
out how we may have gotten thisversion of the story.
And then take a look at howthat story is working out in
your current state, in thepresent.
Does it match anything?
Does it match what you'refeeling on the inside?
(18:39):
Is your outer world reflectiveof what's going on on the inside
?
Have you built your life aroundthe idea that this story is
actually true?
So getting people to see wherethe story is interfering with
them being effective in thislife?
The limiting self-beliefs thatwe have are real barriers in us
(19:04):
becoming everything that we aremeant to be.
Take my story, for instance.
I could have very easily toldmyself that in my 40s it was way
too late to change careers.
Stay where you are, play itsafe, don't take any risks.
Right In the story of myself,that could have very easily went
(19:26):
another way.
So I think we need to bewilling to challenge the story
and look for other ways that wemight be able to be more
effective.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And our stories.
Jeez, I feel like I have somany of my own personal stories.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Right.
I mean, I have to say, as Ishared with you, jean, I read
your book and I was thinkingabout this narrative
conversation, as I was evenreading through your book and
your ideas of yourself and I wasable to see very specific
places where you change yourstory of yourself.
(20:03):
Your version of you has changedmultiple times throughout your
life.
However, if you didn't bump upagainst yourself that first time
, I can't imagine what you wouldhave continued to believe based
on your thoughts about yourselffrom when you were a kid, right
from my upbringing.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
You know things like you are not as valuable as them.
You don't have the money thatthey have.
You can't play in that samefield, in that same sandbox.
I was raised in a very wealthytown and we didn't have any
(20:45):
money, and so the narrative waslike but you're not like the
other kids.
And then you know that's whyyou don't have friends.
You're not like them because wedon't have money, you can't
have the things that they have.
It's just a fact which is partof the story that has, you know,
gotten me to where I am, whichis to sort of prove that story
wrong.
It's sort of like I'm on amission to prove the story wrong
(21:05):
.
But what's also so interestingand you can tell me if this
comes up with your clients too Ithink there are parts of our
story and our narrative whichare actually very positive, but
we lose sight of them,especially when we're in times
of struggle.
We lose sight of the positiveparts of our narrative, and I'll
use my mother in my example.
(21:27):
Right, I have a challengingrelationship with my mother.
Anyone who knows me, has readmy book, knows that but there
are times that I can reflectback on some of the incredible
strengths I got from my mother.
Like my mother, was an earlypioneer of being independent, of
diversity, of inclusion, ofaccepting everyone else, and so
there were some of the valuesthat my mother stood for that
(21:49):
were ingrained in me very young,and sometimes I forget.
That ability to do anything andbe anybody actually did come
from that story when I wasyounger and that's a positive in
that story.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yes, you're absolutely right, jean, and I
think that this is a greatexample of how every single
attribute we have has pros andcons to it every single one,
right.
So, with you and your mom, yougot that incredible strength
from her and you used it to beso many pros in your life.
(22:26):
We can also see where thatstrength was a con, in that it
prohibited her from being ableto engage in other areas of her
life, right?
So we have this thing calledconfirmation bias, and the focus
is on information that supportsour idea about ourself.
(22:47):
So we are always looking forthe proof that these stories are
true, whether positive or thenegative aspect of it.
So you took the strength thatyou saw in your mom and you used
it to gain and to be better inlife.
So it isn't always negative andnothing is all good or all bad.
(23:11):
We can say that for everysingle attribute that we have,
and I feel like part of ourresponsibility and our job to
ourself in life is to get clearon what our attributes are and
to also recognize where they'reworking for us and, most
importantly, where they'reworking against us, and try to
(23:33):
balance that out.
So it's not that we want toremove these aspects of ourself.
We just want to be the mosteffective people we can be, and
that's by balancing thoseattributes effectively.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I love that.
It's true, and you mentionedsomething that I think is so
important that I want to makesure I just summarize, which is
that it's not all black andwhite.
And so when someone comes intoyou and it's like I can't be
successful, or I'm terrible atthis, or I'm a shitty person or
some of these terms we tend touse to describe ourselves,
especially when we feel reallylow or in a really traumatic
(24:09):
situation, as in a totality ofnegativity, and so you pointing
out that we're not any ofanything, it's not all positive
or all negative.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And so it's trying to help your clients identify that
for themselves.
Oh, absolutely, andunderstanding that, if you could
imagine it in this way, jean, agiant pie with hundreds of
slices in it.
That's what we are.
We are comprised of parts.
We are not one dimensional.
We're humans.
We're complicated, we'remulti-dimensional people, we're
(24:51):
layered, we're multifaceted lotsof different parts to ourself.
So in the world of DBT, one ofthe core principles is that two
opposites coexist.
So I think a lot of the timeswe get trapped in our own labels
.
So, for instance, if you're astrong person, you need to just
(25:11):
be strong.
Dbt tells us that you can bestrong and have weak moments.
You could be smart and haveflaky moments.
You could be committed and feelnon-committed sometimes.
It gives us the room and thefreedom to breathe a little bit
so that we don't have to be onething.
(25:33):
Another core principle in DBT isto travel the middle path,
staying away from the extremes.
Instead of black and whiteunderstanding, we live in the
gray.
The middle path is always thebest path.
Stay away from the all ornothings, so that if we're
(25:55):
strong, I have to be strong allthe time, and then, if we see
ourself as weak, that I show upin weak ways all the time, you
know, the truth is that most ofus fall into the bucket of good
people capable of bad things,right.
So it's just understanding thebalance there, so that you don't
(26:15):
ever have to just be one thing.
You can dip your toe in thepool of every single slice in
the pie, and we're meant to dothat.
We're meant to exploreourselves and to discover all
the different aspects aboutourselves, and to embrace them
all without judgment.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Ah, without judgment.
That's a big one, that's thetricky part, that is so hard.
I know how do you help yourclients not judge themselves,
Because I feel like we are justwired to judge ourselves and
society judges us and socialmedia judges us and our
(26:55):
worthiness.
Very often for so many peopleit feels like it's coming from
the outside, Like are peopleliking me?
Am I doing a good job?
Am I making a lot of money?
Do I have a lot of followers,especially as a small business
owner?
Do I have a lot of followers?
Do I have a lot of clients?
It's like you're constantlyjudged.
How do you help your clientswith that?
That's a big one.
(27:15):
How do you help your clientswith that.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
That's a big one.
Well, I think what you'redescribing is external
validation needing to bevalidated from the outside in,
and I try to help folks do theopposite and self-validate so
that we don't need the externalvalidation.
Now don't get me wrong.
Okay, we all love a compliment,we all love to be told that
(27:39):
we're amazing, we've donesomething amazing, we look
amazing, etc.
Yeah, that's great when we canget it.
The truth is, jean, sometimesthe world just isn't going to
throw you a bone, right.
Just isn't.
And we need to feel good onthose days too.
So it's finding the validationfrom within Now to do that and
(28:01):
to examine yourself without thejudgment.
That's not an easy thing either, and Marsha Linehan, who
created DBT, she knew that somuch that one of the skills in
DBT is called observe withoutjudgment, and that latter part
being the most important, thatwe are observing ourself and
observing our patterns withoutthe judgmental piece of it,
(28:26):
replacing the judgment with asense of curiosity and instead
of wagging our finger atourselves, instead being curious
, being curious.
Huh, I wonder why I think likethat.
I wonder why I feel like this.
I wonder why I just did that,right, being more gentle with
(28:47):
ourself and without sounding toocliche.
Every relationship we haveexternally is going to depend
1000% on the relationship wehave with ourself, and if we are
constantly judging ourself,there's no way that we can't do
that for others, right?
So we eliminate the judgmenttowards others when we can
(29:09):
eliminate it to ourself.
There's no way we can offersomeone else that grace if we
cannot even offer it to ourself,right?
So, again, I think that if wecould learn to look at our
attributes not as good or bad,just as is, and look to see
where they're working for youand working against you.
I mean, we can even takesomething as being a
(29:33):
perfectionist, right that, youknow.
Maybe that has some negativeconnotation to it, you know.
Or perfectionist type A, all ofthat.
Well, you know what?
I've met a lot ofperfectionists in my time and
they are incredibly competent,effective people, right.
So a perfectionist typicallydoes a great job attention to
(29:55):
detail, great performance, allof those things.
So many pros, where it gets tobe a little sticky and the cons
is, you know, typicallynothing's ever good enough,
right.
So it's just learning tobalance that.
But just getting well-versed inthe language of yourself
without the judgment, replace itwith curiosity, without the
(30:18):
judgment.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Replace it with curiosity.
Oh so you said so many words.
I had like a light bulb momenton some of those words.
You said the word sticky.
I was like, oh my goodness, Ilove that because you're taking
a term.
You were talking aboutperfectionism and where
perfectionism gets sticky, andit's not about you.
Purposely, I know you choseyour words carefully.
You purposely didn't say whereperfectionism gets sticky and
it's not about you.
Purposely, I know you choseyour words carefully you
(30:39):
purposely didn't say whereperfectionism becomes negative,
you use the word sticky.
So I just want everyone to hearthat word and really think
about that word, because thatwas really powerful.
I loved that.
You said curiosity, and I thinkwe look at being curious like
I'm curious to learn, I'mcurious to learn new hobbies I
have never thought aboutpersonally, about being curious
(31:02):
about why I might be doingsomething and thinking about my
personal narrative.
I've never really turned thatmirror around with the curiosity
in that sense of why I'm alwaysjust like it needs to just be
fixed, not necessarily why I'mlike I just need to learn how to
do it differently.
So I've never had that mirrorracked to me, which is an aha
moment.
(31:22):
And the last aha moment waslike oh my goodness, so you're
talking about judging and Ialways say to people my daughter
will look at me.
Sometimes she'll be like youare so judgy and I'm like no,
I'm not.
It's like yes, you are, you aresuch a judgy person.
And you were saying that and Iwas like huh, if I'm perceived
as being judgy by my daughter,that means somewhere in there
(31:43):
I'm also judging myself.
Yes, and I should turn aroundand look at what ways am I
judging myself first, becausethere is where there's growth.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Absolutely.
I mean that is it right?
It is working on thatrelationship with yourself and
maybe just trying the next timeyou catch yourself, because
we're all guilty, right, thetrick is to interrupt that
process.
Don't let it go, interrupt it.
Have the insight to recognizewhen it's happening.
(32:14):
Right, that's something wedevelop over time.
Is insight into ourself.
Catch yourself and redirect it.
How can I replace that judgmentwith curiosity?
And as far as the relationshipwith others, I mean, I believe
that everyone that you encounterin life is a full length mirror
(32:37):
and mirroring back to youeverything you need to know
about yourself.
We learn that through theinteractions with other people,
the way we engage, the way otherpeople trigger us, excite us,
anger us, all the things.
We learn everything aboutourself through those
(32:58):
interactions.
We learn what we like, what wedon't like, who we do well with,
who we don't do well with,right, and instead of turning it
and pointing the finger back atthem, just use that mechanism
as a tool to learn more aboutyourself.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, I love that and I always say it's.
If you're unhappy withsomething that's happening, it's
a reflection of somethingthat's happening within you.
And if you want yourenvironment outside to change or
you want the people that you'reinteracting with to change, you
need to first look at you andwhat's going on with you,
because they are, I always say,the mirror, I always say they're
a reflection of you, always andeverything that's happening to
(33:36):
you.
It's all just energy.
I talk about this all the time.
We're all just energy, and soif you feel like everything is
happening negatively, well, thenyou really need to start with
yourself.
And what energy are you puttingout there?
Because we're all just energyand like attracts like.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Right, right, and that would also give you a
glimpse into the filter thatyou're using to see and hear the
world.
So there is this language appout there called the Babbel app
and it's a languageinterpretation app.
And I like to say that we havea Babbel app right here in the
(34:11):
front of our forehead and wetake information in and it runs
through that filter and then itspits out the message to us.
We have to understand thatfilter is directly connected to
your narrative, so the way wetake information in and our
(34:31):
perception is not often accuratebecause it runs through that
filter system and that filtershades the way we see everything
and it determines the way wehear everything.
Right, that somebody could saysomething and our conception of
(34:52):
it is completely misinterpretedbecause it got all jumbled up in
our story about ourself.
Sometimes people don't evenhave to say anything.
It could just be a look thatthey give you and we'll decide
that we know what that lookmeans and that is based on some
previous experience we've hadwith somebody looking at us in
(35:13):
that way and what we decided atthat moment maybe 30 years ago
what that meant.
And we will say, yep, that'swhat it is and we'll stick to it
.
And the more we think somethingand the more intense our
feelings are, the more we havethe ability to convince ourself
that that is the truth.
(35:34):
We've all been guilty of sayingthings like no, I really feel
it, I know it's true, I justknow it, I'm feeling, I know it
is.
Or you know what I've beenthinking about this, I've been
thinking about it a lot, I knowit's true.
Again, our thoughts andfeelings so powerful, so valid,
just not always based in factualtruth.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Such an important message.
So what and this might be aninteresting question If you
don't want to answer it, you cantell me you don't want to
answer it.
But for someone like you whoknows and has the tools and
knows how to rewire yourpersonal narrative, knows the
mindset, knows the way to catchthe sticky, Do you feel like
(36:20):
your brain is like that?
You are just in constanttherapy with yourself?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Oh, that's a great question, jean, and I guess the
short answer is yes, yes, yes, Ikeep accountable.
That being said, as you said,it is an ongoing process.
(36:53):
I think the most importantthing we have to remember is
that our lives and the life thatwe have is a whole entire
process of learning, growing,evolving, shifting and changing.
That requires a lot of patiencewith ourself.
We need to give ourselves roomto grow, room to make mistakes,
(37:16):
room to recognize things.
We learn through our errors.
We learn through makingmistakes.
For me personally also,personally, also honestly, I see
a little bit of myself in everysingle person I speak to.
I grow through helping otherpeople.
(37:43):
Going back to those days doingthe women's outpatient program
at the hospital, I couldremember looking into the faces
of all of these women, justthinking just that that I see
myself in every single one ofyour eyes.
I can recognize a little bit ofmyself.
So maybe that is my way ofhaving this accelerated process
(38:06):
throughout life that I've gotthis great gift of learning
every single day through thework that I do with other people
, where I can really recognizemy own stuff through them and
little pieces of myself, littleparts of your pie.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Yes, correct, I love that, that's good.
Oh, I'm so glad you didn't sayI'm just perfect.
I got it all figured out Please.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Hardly.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, we always say in the coaching world, like
every good coach should have acoach, and if you go to hire a
coach and they don't have acoach, you should be really
curious about why they don'thave a coach.
Because we are constantlylearning and growing and
evolving and so to think thatlike we're done, we're never
done, and that's part of thejourney is to keep growing and
learning and learning new things.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
No, and I think, jean , so many people in this field
and so many of my friends andpeers, we got into this field
because we were seeking answersourself.
We needed to understand thingsabout ourself, about life, about
all of it, about how it allwent down.
So I think that I'm alwaysmindful of that.
(39:17):
What got me into this in thefirst place?
That is because of my own storyand challenging myself and the
stories I've come up with aboutmyself and understanding how
(39:38):
limiting that belief system wasand how false it was, and
understanding where it all camefrom.
And the people around us,although well-intended,
sometimes they just can't showup in ways that we would have
wanted.
Right Back to your own story,and I'm sure the difficulties
(40:02):
that you had with your mom andthe way that she couldn't show
up for you in the ways that youwanted to, those aspects created
part of your own narrative, notintended to.
Just that's just the way thatit goes.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Right, well, and what you said, something there
that's so important, which isalso being able to recognize
that.
I'll use my mother as anexample.
My mother has her own story andmy mother has her own narrative
and she looks at life throughher story and through her
narrative and it took me yearsto figure that out and it
(40:41):
doesn't allow me to accept herbehavior, but it does allow me
to take some grace and notpersonalize some of her
behaviors now, because that isher story and her narrative and
in some ways, she doesn't knowhow to do it any differently
because of her narrative.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Right.
That is your perception of whatis real in this life, right,
and you remind us of a greatpoint, and, being a parent
yourself, you know this right,so that you had the gift of
self-discovery and gaininginsight throughout your life.
Not everyone signs up for thatgig.
Not everyone even understandsthat it's available to them,
that they just don't understand.
So you have to remember thatSomething you just said, that
(41:52):
you haven't accepted.
It, which brings me to a termin DBT that we use a lot, and
it's called radical acceptance,and this is a very difficult one
.
Radical acceptance asks us toaccept all the things we don't
want to, the things we don'tlike, the things we push back on
(42:13):
, the things that have caused uspain and harm.
We don't want to accept them.
However, go back to MarshaLinehan.
Her definition of suffering isour inability to accept reality
on reality's terms, because wekeep coming back to things over
and over, expecting them to bethe way we want them to be, and
(42:37):
then we're incrediblydisappointed when that doesn't
happen.
And we meet with people, placesand things all the time.
Now, we don't have to likethings.
We don't have to give our stampof approval on everything
either.
However, to refuse to thereality of a situation.
A person is going to be painfulin the beginning.
(42:59):
Pain subsides though.
The intensity of pain decreasesover time, right.
(43:20):
The suffering, though, justkeeps us swimming in it over and
over and over again, right.
So, although you don't have tolike the choices your mom made
you don't have to like herdisposition.
You don't have to like the wayshe approaches life.
You don't have to like the wayshe parented you very much have
(43:41):
to accept that that is thereality of who she is, and
without that, you will staysuffering in that relationship.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
That is.
I'm like I'm getting therapy.
Guys.
This is amazing.
But you're right, it'saccepting that she is who she is
and she is who she is becauseof her narrative, and just
accepting that.
That is just.
I love how you said that isjust the reality and that is.
Those are just the facts,that's it Just.
You said that is just thereality and that is.
Those are just the facts.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
That's it.
Just the facts, man, just thefacts.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
They're just the facts, right.
And then when you look at itlike it's just the facts, you're
also I at least can see howover time I could, I could
remove the emotion from thefacts because it isn't an attack
on me, it isn't intentional.
Even if it is, it doesn'treally matter.
It's just the facts.
Because it isn't an attack onme, it isn't intentional.
Even if it is, it doesn'treally matter.
It's just the facts Right.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
And I think that that concept could help us come to
terms with some of the thingsthat we've done, that have
happened in our own lives.
Right, there's parts of ourstory that we must accept.
Yeah, and we have to acceptthem because it's true and it
happened.
We don't have to like it, wedon't have to approve of it, we
(44:57):
don't have to even align with it.
However, we must accept that ithappened.
We must accept we did the thing, we did it, we said it.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
It happened Right.
Yes, it existed, it's out thereit is that's it Out in the
ethers.
Yep, we've all done things.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yes, now once you accept it.
If that's something you don'tlike, you can be responsible for
changing it.
You could pivot, you can changecourse.
However, to deny the existenceof something just keeps you
suffering.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
to deny the existence of something just keeps you
suffering.
You're so wise, oh my goodness,thank you.
I feel like I've learned somuch, so hopefully everybody
who's listening feels likethey've learned the same things,
or just little nuggets alongthe way of what you said,
because you've said so manypowerful things, and before I
move into the last two things Iwant to ask you to close, I just
(45:48):
want to make the statement thatsometimes I think therapists
get such a bad rap becausepeople feel like they go to
therapy and they just talk andno one ever gives them anything
tangible to walk away with.
And what I love about the workthat you do is you actually help
people with tools.
You're not telling them what todo, but you're giving them some
tools and ways of thinking thatcan help them make change, and
(46:11):
so I thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Thank you, thank you so much.
I think the most importantpiece is empowering people to
know that they have it withinthem to make the changes, that
if we can take our power backand stop giving it out to the
world and oftentimes, jean, wetry to control everyone and
(46:37):
everything that's going on, andthat is our way to feel powerful
, and that is not where ourpower lies.
Our power lies in the way werespond to our environment, and
we are fully in control of that.
So I think probably one of thegreatest ahas is giving people
(46:57):
that that, honestly, in the end,you don't even need me.
You can figure all of this outon your own and you can choose
the way you respond by gainingthat insight, doing your
homework into understand why itis you're reacting and
responding in that way.
That's where our personal powerlies.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yes, oh, that's beautiful.
I'm going to be creating alittle, real little mini clip of
that so we can listen to thaton repeat.
All right, I have two things Iwant to talk about before we
have to go, because I've takenup so much of your time and I've
gotten my own personal therapysession, so thank you.
First one is I love to ask myguests that are in the personal
(47:57):
growth wellness space what doespersonal wellness look like for
you.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
what it means, without sounding too corny, is
living a thousand percentauthentically.
And let me just pull thecurtain back on that, because
that is the big words that areon stage Now.
What's behind that is acommitment to everything that I
(48:25):
was just saying, a commitment todoing that deep dive into
yourself, uncovering thatnarrative, ironing it out,
getting a story that's actuallyaccurate.
That is wellness.
Living authentically is livingyour true story, not the
fabricated version of thenarrative that we come up with.
(48:48):
So it's doing all the work andthen getting out on stage and
being your authentic self.
And why?
Because you discovered who thatauthentic self really is.
That is wellness.
When your outer world feelsreflective on what's going on on
the inside and they match,that's wellness.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
And you are living proof of doing that and doing
the work.
I love it.
Yeah, perfect, okay.
One last question I ask all myguests to recommend a book, if
they wouldn't mind, that hasimpacted them either
professionally or personally,because I do feel that books
change lives and I read most ofthe books that my guests
recommend because I just amcontinually learning.
So is there a book that youwould like our listeners to read
(49:33):
or recommend that they read?
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yes, this was a tough one because, as you can imagine
, there's thousands of greatones out there.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
It's hard to pick one .
There's so many great self-helpbooks out there, so many guests
are like I can't pick one, yeah, however, this was easy.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
This was easy.
Yeah, it's the Alchemist.
Oh, yes, absolutely hands downthe Alchemist.
Okay, the story in theAlchemist really boils down to
it's not getting the thing thatwe want the most in life.
That's life.
It's discovering who you are inthe process of getting the
(50:13):
things.
It's the journey that forcesyou to find all the aspects of
yourself right.
That is the gift in life isthat that journey creates who
you're going to become.
So, again, going back to theradical acceptance of accepting
(50:34):
all the parts, the good parts,the not so good parts, the happy
parts, the painful parts,understanding that they were all
part of the process of youbecoming who you are today, I
can tell you wholeheartedly,jean, there's no way I could be
sitting here in this chair, inthis office, doing any of the
(50:55):
work that I have done, withoutall the painful parts of my own
journey that really uncoveredeverything that I was meant to
be in this life and parts that Iam sure I haven't even
uncovered yet.
There is still so much more ofthe journey ahead of me, so many
rocks that I haven't eventurned over yet.
(51:18):
So it definitely is the journey.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
All right, I'm going to have to get that book,
because you're not the firstperson who's recommended that
one and I haven't read it yet.
That's a must read for sure.
A must read, okay good, thankyou so much.
I will put in the show noteshow everyone can get in touch
with you, but I would assumethat you accept clients anywhere
.
People don't have to come andsee you in person in New Canaan.
Correct me if I'm wrong aboutthat, but I would think if there
was someone who doesn't livehere in Connecticut who was
(51:42):
interested in working with you.
Do it via Zoom, is that correct?
Speaker 1 (51:46):
That is correct in the states that I am licensed to
practice in.
So yes, we offer in-person andtelehealth in the three states
that I'm licensed to do clinicalwork in.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Perfect, I love it.
Yeah, but sometimes you knowwhat, even in Connecticut, I
find sometimes I don'tnecessarily have time to drive
and park and, like you know, youdon't ever want that to be the
excuse.
So there are people that I'veworked with for various
modalities here in Connecticutthat don't even live very far
away from me and people are like, why don't you go in person?
I'm like because that is anextra hour.
I have to say that's an extrahour and so sometimes Zoom is
(52:23):
better.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yeah, zoom, we can do Zoom, zoom in the state of
Connecticut and because we are,sucht is and I just find it
really fascinating, so thank youfor your time.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with everybody,
being so open to it and forhelping us and for just being a
really fabulous guest, and Ihope you have a beautiful day.
Thank you so much.
It was so great to be here.
Thanks, jean, okay, and we'llstay in touch.
We'll talk soon.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of the House of
Germar podcast, where wellnessstarts within.
(53:11):
We appreciate you being a partof our community and hope you
felt inspired and motivated byour guest.
If you enjoyed this episode,please write us a review and
share it with friends.
Building our reach on YouTubeand Apple podcasts will help us
get closer to our mission toempower 1 million women to live
all in.
You can also follow us onInstagram at House of germar and
(53:35):
sign up to be a part of ourmonthly inspiration newsletter
through our website, house ofgermarcom.
If you or someone you knowwould be a good guest on the
show, please reach out to us atpodcast at House of germarcom.
This has been a House of Germarproduction with your host, jean
Collins.
Thank you for joining our house.
What is a personal?
Speaker 2 (00:01):
narrative.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Well, in simple terms , jean, a personal narrative is
our story about ourself.
It's the story we come up withabout ourself, that we tell
ourself.
It's a self-concept and it'sshaped by our subjective
experiences and it is not alwaysfactually correct.
(00:25):
That is.
The problem is that we come upwith the story and we kind of
take bits and pieces of themovie of our life.
We string these thoughts andbeliefs together to come up with
a story.
The problem, main problem, withthe narrative, is that we start
(00:46):
creating that story when we arevery little kids and it is
impossible for us to make senseof what's happening around us or
make sense about our place inwhat's happening around us.
So we come up with our ownversion of that.
For better or worse, it's thescript we stick to, typically
(01:08):
until we find that that scriptis really getting in the way of
us being effective in life.
And then, hopefully, we go andtalk to somebody and we figure
out that we've got the story allmixed up.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Welcome to the House of Germar podcast, where
wellness starts within.
The House of Germar is alifestyle brand, empowering
women to live all in throughinterior design and personal
wellness.
We are a destination for womenready to reimagine what is
possible in their homes andlives and then create it.
We are honored to have you joinus on our mission to empower 1
(01:46):
million women to live all in.
I am your host, Jean Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
Welcome to the House of Jarmarpodcast, where wellness starts
with it.
I'm your host, Jean Collins,and today we are going to talk
about social work and we'regoing to talk about your brain
and how you think and yournarrative.
I can't wait.
(02:07):
This is an episode that is foreveryone.
We all have a narrative.
So today's guest, EllenArchimonde.
I am so excited to have her onhere.
I'm going to read a little bitof her bio, just because I want
to give you guys a high levelabout her, so I'm going to have
to read it, but it will also bein the show notes, so I just
(02:31):
want you to know.
Ellen has extensive experiencetreating addiction, grief,
anxiety, depression, adjustment,as well as personality
disorders, with a special focuson women's issues and she uses
stuff we're going to get into,because I don't know a lot about
all of this.
She uses cognitive behavioraltherapy CBT that I've heard of
and one I've never heard ofdialectal behavior therapy.
I am so excited to talk to you,Ellen.
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Thank you so much, Jean.
I'm so happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Oh, I am so happy you are here.
So, just so everybody knows,ellen and I live in the same
town.
We belong to a women'snetworking group and we got
together for coffee and realizedwe just personally have so much
in common.
We are both Leos, we just hadso much to chat about and
normally I'm sort of like, okay,you're a social worker, okay,
that's cool, all right, whatever.
But as soon as we started totalk, she started talking about
(03:16):
this whole concept of personalnarrative and I was just so
interested and fascinated withthe work that she does and her
practice, and not only that, herjourney to get to where she is,
which is really just empowering, exciting, and her following
her passions to do something sheloves.
So I asked her if she'd bewilling to be on the show, which
I'm so grateful for your time.
So, thank you, thank you.
(03:36):
So before we get started, Ialways love to talk about
people's journeys just a littlebit, because you didn't start
out saying like I want to be aclinical social worker or maybe
you did, but I don't think youdid.
So if you can share witheverybody a little bit about
your career journey and how yougot to where you are today, Sure
.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Well, I can say it definitely was not a linear
process.
It was not one way straightahead.
It was taking a lot of twistsand turns and I started out
wanting to be a teacher andquickly changed my major to
psychology and got myself intothe School of Social Work, went
(04:16):
on to get my master's degree insocial work and when I came out
of graduate school I worked forabout three years in
community-based programs, mostlyin lower Westchester, and then
left the field.
I had a personal tragedy andfelt that at that time my heart
(04:37):
just wasn't in it anymore.
I felt that I wanted to take asafer route and went into a
field in the corporate worldwhere I felt that my heart would
be safe and I wouldn't need tobe vulnerable.
So I stayed in that world forapproximately 12 years and
(05:03):
towards the end of that time itwas very clear to me that I was
not in the right place and thiswas not going to be a good fit
for me, that, whether I wantedto accept it or not, my heart
was in being a therapist andconnecting with people and
helping people.
So I bridged that gap back intothe field and fast forward.
(05:28):
I found myself working at apsychiatric hospital, a local
hospital, and fell into thewomen's program there completely
accidentally and before I knewit.
I was sitting in front of agroup of 10 to 15 women every
morning for three hours a daydoing the outpatient program and
(05:50):
, at 50 years old, finally foundmy place in that group.
From the first group that I did, I knew that that is where I
wanted to be, that is what Iwanted to do.
It felt like coming home.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I love that.
I love coming home.
Okay, and just to wrap up yourstory, because I interrupted you
, but I love the emotion of youfeeling at 50, you would finally
come home.
We're going to come back tothat, so I'm gonna let you
continue.
Sorry to interrupt.
Let you continue.
Sorry to interrupt.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
That's okay.
It was a long journey and, as Isaid, one that was completely
unexpected.
Even just falling into thatgroup was accidental.
There Somebody was stepping out.
I was new.
They needed somebody to fill in.
It was going to be temporary atfirst and turned out to be
(06:42):
permanent.
As I said, I felt that it was aperfect match and turned out to
be permanent.
As I said, I felt that it was aperfect match.
And then, after spending sometime at the hospital and getting
the most amazing experiencewith a group of clinical people
that were just so inspiring Ilearned so much from them I felt
that it was time to move on andinto private practice and
(07:03):
joined a couple of doctors fromthat same hospital at a local
practice here in town where I'vebeen for the last few years now
.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
So you are now your own boss.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
I am my own boss now.
How does?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
that feel.
If you think back to thatperson who was back in that job
that you decided wasn't a fitand you could talk to them about
where you are now, how doesthat feel?
Speaker 1 (07:26):
It feels surreal at times and, as I said before,
unexpected.
Again, the journey really isunexpected.
The way you plan for things tohappen never is the way it
actually happens and in myexperience I have found it's
always so much more amazing thanyou ever could have pictured
(07:46):
for yourself.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
So, to answer your question, it is way more than I
ever could have dreamed for wantis they want help to get to
that place in whatever area oflife it is that they're trying
to work on.
(08:07):
Everyone wants to feel likethey're at home and they have
landed and they're purposedriven and they're where they're
supposed to be at that time oflife.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes, definitely.
And also, maybe the mostimportant message of all is that
it's never too late.
Right that when I remember themoment sitting there and
thinking, wow, at 50, really, Ijust have arrived, right, so
just starting, just gettingstarted.
Right, the motor was justgetting started, and that is the
(08:38):
absolute truth.
So whoever is out therelistening, thinking that their
ship has sailed and it is toolate for them, it's never too
late.
It is never too late.
I'm proof of that Exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
We both are yes, yes, yeah, all right.
So I have a very fundamentalbasic question what is the
difference between a socialworker and a psychiatrist and
just people who considerthemselves therapists?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Right?
Well, I think the maindifference between a clinical
social worker at LCSW and apsychiatrist is the medical
degree.
So a psychiatrist is a medicaldoctor and a clinical social
worker is not.
And then there is apsychologist who is not a
medical doctor, kind of inbetween, and their focus is on
(09:31):
research and testing.
Clinical social worker is ontherapy.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Okay, I got it.
That might have been basic, butI'm sure I'm not the only
person who has that question,because people throw away the
terms therapist out there a lot.
That question because peoplethrow away the terms therapist
out there a lot and they're notall the same.
Yes, and from what little Iknow about this, not all
therapists specialize in thesame modalities in terms of how
they help their patients, socould you explain a little bit
(09:58):
about that?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yes, so modality of treatment is different.
The modality of treatment thatI primarily use is a combination
of CBT and DBT cognitivebehavioral therapy, which
focuses on our thoughts, anddialectical behavioral therapy,
which is a spinoff of cognitivebehavioral therapy, broken up
(10:22):
into four modules and offers aset of tangible skills.
That modality of treatment wascreated by a woman called Marsha
Linehan in the 80s, and shecame up with this modality of
treatment as she was once apatient herself.
So, having found that nothingwas helping her, she created
(10:46):
this out of the University ofWashington and is still
practicing there today, Ibelieve.
Okay, so one deals with thinkingand the other deals with
modalities therapy focuses onthe connection between thoughts,
(11:08):
feelings and behaviors, thedifference being it's broken up
into modules for and offerstangible skills to use, so
they're called DBT skills.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Got it?
And are the modules like steps,like that you walk somebody
through?
Speaker 1 (11:19):
They are organized by groupings, so they're broken up
into mindfulness, interpersonaleffectiveness, distress,
tolerance and emotion regulation.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Ooh, all terms, I really like, I like that.
Okay, we're going to dig intothat a little bit more, because
I'm going to ask you to give mean example in a little bit Sure,
before we do that, I want totalk about personal narrative,
because that was what we weretalking about when we met for
coffee, that I was so interestedin this concept of personal
narrative.
So what is a personal narrative.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, in simple terms , jean, a personal narrative is
our story about ourself.
It's the story we come up withabout ourself, that we tell
ourself.
It's a self-concept and it'sshaped by our subjective
experiences and it is not alwaysfactually correct.
(12:18):
That is.
The problem is that we come upwith the story and we kind of
take bits and pieces of themovie of our life.
We string these thoughts andbeliefs together to come up with
a story.
The problem, main problem, withthe narrative, is that we start
(12:39):
creating that story when we arevery little kids and it is
impossible for us to make senseof what's happening around us or
make sense about our place inwhat's happening around us.
So we come up with our ownversion of that.
For better or worse, it's thescript we stick to, typically
(13:01):
until we find that that scriptis really getting in the way of
us being effective in life.
And then, hopefully, we go andtalk to somebody and we figure
out that we've got the story allmixed up.
Now another issue with thatstory is that it really does
determine the way you're goingto show up in every aspect of
(13:22):
your life.
So back to the DBT.
It affects the way you're goingto show up in every aspect of
your life.
So back to the DBT.
It affects the way youcommunicate with others, it
affects the way you show up inyour relationships.
It affects the way you regulateyour emotions, the way you're
able to tolerate distress.
So very important to figure outwhat your story is, ask
(13:44):
yourself if it's true and thenseek the true version of that
story.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
How I'm thinking about, like maybe parts of my
story right of how I was growingup, and it makes total sense
when you think about I mightremember situations in a certain
way or I might assume orproject emotions onto someone
else who was part of my storythat are not valid, because that
(14:11):
might not be how it reallyhappened.
But how does a patient gothrough like?
Where do you find the truth?
How do you know what the truthis?
Speaker 1 (14:28):
what the truth is.
Well, that's such a greatquestion, jean.
I think that we need to beskillful in determining what
that truth is.
We have to remember thoughtsand feelings, although
incredibly valid and so powerful, they are not facts.
Facts are facts.
So there is a skill in DBTcalled check the facts.
It is one of my favorites.
I use it personally all thetime and it kind of goes like
(14:51):
this that's a really interestingidea and a really strong
feeling, but do we have anyproof that that is true, real
proof?
So, for instance, maybesomebody's narrative is oh, I'm
so stupid I can't do anythingright.
I never say anything right.
That may be the dialogue thatyou're running in your head.
(15:12):
However, where's your proofthat that's actually true,
concrete proof?
Do we have any?
And the way that it works isthat if we check and we come up
with nothing, we need to bewilling to let that idea go and
perhaps embrace a more accurateversion of what the truth is.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Interesting.
So how does mindset play inthat If you have a thought,
we'll just use you know, I'mstupid, I'm not good at anything
, I can't be successful.
And if that's your thought andyou can realize through working
with someone like you that it'snot based in fact, so maybe that
thought isn't true.
Where does mindset play in whatyou do next?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Where does mindset play in what you do next?
Well, mindset is everything,because everything starts with a
thought.
The thoughts are whereeverything is born, because our
thoughts are going to leaddirectly to a feeling that
matches that thought.
The feeling is a direct resultof what we're thinking, and then
the behavior is a springboardoff of that emotion.
(16:22):
So mindset is everything.
It sets the tone for everythingthat's going to come later.
So it is changing your ideasabout who you are.
And be willing to embrace theidea that there might be another
way to look at things.
(16:42):
Maybe we can't believe it fullyin the beginning, so we can
start with maybe just believingthere might be another way to
see this, just one other versionof this story.
So as soon as we can shift ourperception, even just a
millimeter, everything followsthat.
(17:03):
Then the feeling will match thenew thought that we have, and
then there's no way that ourbehavior can be the same,
because everything else isrealigned.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Interesting, so it feels to me like it's a process.
Yes, it's a journey.
Yes, how do you help yourclients through that process on
a weekly basis, because theystill have to be living life.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Well, I think that the first step is to figure out
what your story is in the firstplace what is the story?
And then helping them figureout where in the world we came
up with the story.
How did we get this version ofyourself?
Oftentimes, others see us moreaccurately than we see ourself,
(17:58):
and not that we need to investeverything into other people's
opinions, because that's adangerous game as well.
However, again, just be willingto entertain the idea that
there might be another way oflooking at things and looking at
yourself.
Right.
So it's uncovering the story,going back, replaying, going
(18:19):
back into childhood not for toolong, just long enough to figure
out how we may have gotten thisversion of the story.
And then take a look at howthat story is working out in
your current state, in thepresent.
Does it match anything?
Does it match what you'refeeling on the inside?
(18:39):
Is your outer world reflectiveof what's going on on the inside
?
Have you built your life aroundthe idea that this story is
actually true?
So getting people to see wherethe story is interfering with
them being effective in thislife?
The limiting self-beliefs thatwe have are real barriers in us
(19:04):
becoming everything that we aremeant to be.
Take my story, for instance.
I could have very easily toldmyself that in my 40s it was way
too late to change careers.
Stay where you are, play itsafe, don't take any risks.
Right In the story of myself,that could have very easily went
(19:26):
another way.
So I think we need to bewilling to challenge the story
and look for other ways that wemight be able to be more
effective.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And our stories.
Jeez, I feel like I have somany of my own personal stories.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Right.
I mean, I have to say, as Ishared with you, jean, I read
your book and I was thinkingabout this narrative
conversation, as I was evenreading through your book and
your ideas of yourself and I wasable to see very specific
places where you change yourstory of yourself.
(20:03):
Your version of you has changedmultiple times throughout your
life.
However, if you didn't bump upagainst yourself that first time
, I can't imagine what you wouldhave continued to believe based
on your thoughts about yourselffrom when you were a kid, right
from my upbringing.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
You know things like you are not as valuable as them.
You don't have the money thatthey have.
You can't play in that samefield, in that same sandbox.
I was raised in a very wealthytown and we didn't have any
(20:45):
money, and so the narrative waslike but you're not like the
other kids.
And then you know that's whyyou don't have friends.
You're not like them because wedon't have money, you can't
have the things that they have.
It's just a fact which is partof the story that has, you know,
gotten me to where I am, whichis to sort of prove that story
wrong.
It's sort of like I'm on amission to prove the story wrong
(21:05):
.
But what's also so interestingand you can tell me if this
comes up with your clients too Ithink there are parts of our
story and our narrative whichare actually very positive, but
we lose sight of them,especially when we're in times
of struggle.
We lose sight of the positiveparts of our narrative, and I'll
use my mother in my example.
(21:27):
Right, I have a challengingrelationship with my mother.
Anyone who knows me, has readmy book, knows that but there
are times that I can reflectback on some of the incredible
strengths I got from my mother.
Like my mother, was an earlypioneer of being independent, of
diversity, of inclusion, ofaccepting everyone else, and so
there were some of the valuesthat my mother stood for that
(21:49):
were ingrained in me very young,and sometimes I forget.
That ability to do anything andbe anybody actually did come
from that story when I wasyounger and that's a positive in
that story.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yes, you're absolutely right, jean, and I
think that this is a greatexample of how every single
attribute we have has pros andcons to it every single one,
right.
So, with you and your mom, yougot that incredible strength
from her and you used it to beso many pros in your life.
(22:26):
We can also see where thatstrength was a con, in that it
prohibited her from being ableto engage in other areas of her
life, right?
So we have this thing calledconfirmation bias, and the focus
is on information that supportsour idea about ourself.
(22:47):
So we are always looking forthe proof that these stories are
true, whether positive or thenegative aspect of it.
So you took the strength thatyou saw in your mom and you used
it to gain and to be better inlife.
So it isn't always negative andnothing is all good or all bad.
(23:11):
We can say that for everysingle attribute that we have,
and I feel like part of ourresponsibility and our job to
ourself in life is to get clearon what our attributes are and
to also recognize where they'reworking for us and, most
importantly, where they'reworking against us, and try to
(23:33):
balance that out.
So it's not that we want toremove these aspects of ourself.
We just want to be the mosteffective people we can be, and
that's by balancing thoseattributes effectively.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I love that.
It's true, and you mentionedsomething that I think is so
important that I want to makesure I just summarize, which is
that it's not all black andwhite.
And so when someone comes intoyou and it's like I can't be
successful, or I'm terrible atthis, or I'm a shitty person or
some of these terms we tend touse to describe ourselves,
especially when we feel reallylow or in a really traumatic
(24:09):
situation, as in a totality ofnegativity, and so you pointing
out that we're not any ofanything, it's not all positive
or all negative.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
And so it's trying to help your clients identify that
for themselves.
Oh, absolutely, andunderstanding that, if you could
imagine it in this way, jean, agiant pie with hundreds of
slices in it.
That's what we are.
We are comprised of parts.
We are not one dimensional.
We're humans.
We're complicated, we'remulti-dimensional people, we're
(24:51):
layered, we're multifaceted lotsof different parts to ourself.
So in the world of DBT, one ofthe core principles is that two
opposites coexist.
So I think a lot of the timeswe get trapped in our own labels
.
So, for instance, if you're astrong person, you need to just
(25:11):
be strong.
Dbt tells us that you can bestrong and have weak moments.
You could be smart and haveflaky moments.
You could be committed and feelnon-committed sometimes.
It gives us the room and thefreedom to breathe a little bit
so that we don't have to be onething.
(25:33):
Another core principle in DBT isto travel the middle path,
staying away from the extremes.
Instead of black and whiteunderstanding, we live in the
gray.
The middle path is always thebest path.
Stay away from the all ornothings, so that if we're
(25:55):
strong, I have to be strong allthe time, and then, if we see
ourself as weak, that I show upin weak ways all the time, you
know, the truth is that most ofus fall into the bucket of good
people capable of bad things,right.
So it's just understanding thebalance there, so that you don't
(26:15):
ever have to just be one thing.
You can dip your toe in thepool of every single slice in
the pie, and we're meant to dothat.
We're meant to exploreourselves and to discover all
the different aspects aboutourselves, and to embrace them
all without judgment.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Ah, without judgment.
That's a big one, that's thetricky part, that is so hard.
I know how do you help yourclients not judge themselves,
Because I feel like we are justwired to judge ourselves and
society judges us and socialmedia judges us and our
(26:55):
worthiness.
Very often for so many peopleit feels like it's coming from
the outside, Like are peopleliking me?
Am I doing a good job?
Am I making a lot of money?
Do I have a lot of followers,especially as a small business
owner?
Do I have a lot of followers?
Do I have a lot of clients?
It's like you're constantlyjudged.
How do you help your clientswith that?
That's a big one.
(27:15):
How do you help your clientswith that.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
That's a big one.
Well, I think what you'redescribing is external
validation needing to bevalidated from the outside in,
and I try to help folks do theopposite and self-validate so
that we don't need the externalvalidation.
Now don't get me wrong.
Okay, we all love a compliment,we all love to be told that
(27:39):
we're amazing, we've donesomething amazing, we look
amazing, etc.
Yeah, that's great when we canget it.
The truth is, jean, sometimesthe world just isn't going to
throw you a bone, right.
Just isn't.
And we need to feel good onthose days too.
So it's finding the validationfrom within Now to do that and
(28:01):
to examine yourself without thejudgment.
That's not an easy thing either, and Marsha Linehan, who
created DBT, she knew that somuch that one of the skills in
DBT is called observe withoutjudgment, and that latter part
being the most important, thatwe are observing ourself and
observing our patterns withoutthe judgmental piece of it,
(28:26):
replacing the judgment with asense of curiosity and instead
of wagging our finger atourselves, instead being curious
, being curious.
Huh, I wonder why I think likethat.
I wonder why I feel like this.
I wonder why I just did that,right, being more gentle with
(28:47):
ourself and without sounding toocliche.
Every relationship we haveexternally is going to depend
1000% on the relationship wehave with ourself, and if we are
constantly judging ourself,there's no way that we can't do
that for others, right?
So we eliminate the judgmenttowards others when we can
(29:09):
eliminate it to ourself.
There's no way we can offersomeone else that grace if we
cannot even offer it to ourself,right?
So, again, I think that if wecould learn to look at our
attributes not as good or bad,just as is, and look to see
where they're working for youand working against you.
I mean, we can even takesomething as being a
(29:33):
perfectionist, right that, youknow.
Maybe that has some negativeconnotation to it, you know.
Or perfectionist type A, all ofthat.
Well, you know what?
I've met a lot ofperfectionists in my time and
they are incredibly competent,effective people, right.
So a perfectionist typicallydoes a great job attention to
(29:55):
detail, great performance, allof those things.
So many pros, where it gets tobe a little sticky and the cons
is, you know, typicallynothing's ever good enough,
right.
So it's just learning tobalance that.
But just getting well-versed inthe language of yourself
without the judgment, replace itwith curiosity, without the
(30:18):
judgment.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Replace it with curiosity.
Oh so you said so many words.
I had like a light bulb momenton some of those words.
You said the word sticky.
I was like, oh my goodness, Ilove that because you're taking
a term.
You were talking aboutperfectionism and where
perfectionism gets sticky, andit's not about you.
Purposely, I know you choseyour words carefully.
You purposely didn't say whereperfectionism gets sticky and
it's not about you.
Purposely, I know you choseyour words carefully you
(30:39):
purposely didn't say whereperfectionism becomes negative,
you use the word sticky.
So I just want everyone to hearthat word and really think
about that word, because thatwas really powerful.
I loved that.
You said curiosity, and I thinkwe look at being curious like
I'm curious to learn, I'mcurious to learn new hobbies I
have never thought aboutpersonally, about being curious
(31:02):
about why I might be doingsomething and thinking about my
personal narrative.
I've never really turned thatmirror around with the curiosity
in that sense of why I'm alwaysjust like it needs to just be
fixed, not necessarily why I'mlike I just need to learn how to
do it differently.
So I've never had that mirrorracked to me, which is an aha
moment.
(31:22):
And the last aha moment waslike oh my goodness, so you're
talking about judging and Ialways say to people my daughter
will look at me.
Sometimes she'll be like youare so judgy and I'm like no,
I'm not.
It's like yes, you are, you aresuch a judgy person.
And you were saying that and Iwas like huh, if I'm perceived
as being judgy by my daughter,that means somewhere in there
(31:43):
I'm also judging myself.
Yes, and I should turn aroundand look at what ways am I
judging myself first, becausethere is where there's growth.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Absolutely.
I mean that is it right?
It is working on thatrelationship with yourself and
maybe just trying the next timeyou catch yourself, because
we're all guilty, right, thetrick is to interrupt that
process.
Don't let it go, interrupt it.
Have the insight to recognizewhen it's happening.
(32:14):
Right, that's something wedevelop over time.
Is insight into ourself.
Catch yourself and redirect it.
How can I replace that judgmentwith curiosity?
And as far as the relationshipwith others, I mean, I believe
that everyone that you encounterin life is a full length mirror
(32:37):
and mirroring back to youeverything you need to know
about yourself.
We learn that through theinteractions with other people,
the way we engage, the way otherpeople trigger us, excite us,
anger us, all the things.
We learn everything aboutourself through those
(32:58):
interactions.
We learn what we like, what wedon't like, who we do well with,
who we don't do well with,right, and instead of turning it
and pointing the finger back atthem, just use that mechanism
as a tool to learn more aboutyourself.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, I love that and I always say it's.
If you're unhappy withsomething that's happening, it's
a reflection of somethingthat's happening within you.
And if you want yourenvironment outside to change or
you want the people that you'reinteracting with to change, you
need to first look at you andwhat's going on with you,
because they are, I always say,the mirror, I always say they're
a reflection of you, always andeverything that's happening to
(33:36):
you.
It's all just energy.
I talk about this all the time.
We're all just energy, and soif you feel like everything is
happening negatively, well, thenyou really need to start with
yourself.
And what energy are you puttingout there?
Because we're all just energyand like attracts like.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Right, right, and that would also give you a
glimpse into the filter thatyou're using to see and hear the
world.
So there is this language appout there called the Babbel app
and it's a languageinterpretation app.
And I like to say that we havea Babbel app right here in the
(34:11):
front of our forehead and wetake information in and it runs
through that filter and then itspits out the message to us.
We have to understand thatfilter is directly connected to
your narrative, so the way wetake information in and our
(34:31):
perception is not often accuratebecause it runs through that
filter system and that filtershades the way we see everything
and it determines the way wehear everything.
Right, that somebody could saysomething and our conception of
(34:52):
it is completely misinterpretedbecause it got all jumbled up in
our story about ourself.
Sometimes people don't evenhave to say anything.
It could just be a look thatthey give you and we'll decide
that we know what that lookmeans and that is based on some
previous experience we've hadwith somebody looking at us in
(35:13):
that way and what we decided atthat moment maybe 30 years ago
what that meant.
And we will say, yep, that'swhat it is and we'll stick to it
.
And the more we think somethingand the more intense our
feelings are, the more we havethe ability to convince ourself
that that is the truth.
(35:34):
We've all been guilty of sayingthings like no, I really feel
it, I know it's true, I justknow it, I'm feeling, I know it
is.
Or you know what I've beenthinking about this, I've been
thinking about it a lot, I knowit's true.
Again, our thoughts andfeelings so powerful, so valid,
just not always based in factualtruth.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Such an important message.
So what and this might be aninteresting question If you
don't want to answer it, you cantell me you don't want to
answer it.
But for someone like you whoknows and has the tools and
knows how to rewire yourpersonal narrative, knows the
mindset, knows the way to catchthe sticky, Do you feel like
(36:20):
your brain is like that?
You are just in constanttherapy with yourself?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Oh, that's a great question, jean, and I guess the
short answer is yes, yes, yes, Ikeep accountable.
That being said, as you said,it is an ongoing process.
(36:53):
I think the most importantthing we have to remember is
that our lives and the life thatwe have is a whole entire
process of learning, growing,evolving, shifting and changing.
That requires a lot of patiencewith ourself.
We need to give ourselves roomto grow, room to make mistakes,
(37:16):
room to recognize things.
We learn through our errors.
We learn through makingmistakes.
For me personally also,personally, also honestly, I see
a little bit of myself in everysingle person I speak to.
I grow through helping otherpeople.
(37:43):
Going back to those days doingthe women's outpatient program
at the hospital, I couldremember looking into the faces
of all of these women, justthinking just that that I see
myself in every single one ofyour eyes.
I can recognize a little bit ofmyself.
So maybe that is my way ofhaving this accelerated process
(38:06):
throughout life that I've gotthis great gift of learning
every single day through thework that I do with other people
, where I can really recognizemy own stuff through them and
little pieces of myself, littleparts of your pie.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Yes, correct, I love that, that's good.
Oh, I'm so glad you didn't sayI'm just perfect.
I got it all figured out Please.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Hardly.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, we always say in the coaching world, like
every good coach should have acoach, and if you go to hire a
coach and they don't have acoach, you should be really
curious about why they don'thave a coach.
Because we are constantlylearning and growing and
evolving and so to think thatlike we're done, we're never
done, and that's part of thejourney is to keep growing and
learning and learning new things.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
No, and I think, jean , so many people in this field
and so many of my friends andpeers, we got into this field
because we were seeking answersourself.
We needed to understand thingsabout ourself, about life, about
all of it, about how it allwent down.
So I think that I'm alwaysmindful of that.
(39:17):
What got me into this in thefirst place?
That is because of my own storyand challenging myself and the
stories I've come up with aboutmyself and understanding how
(39:38):
limiting that belief system wasand how false it was, and
understanding where it all camefrom.
And the people around us,although well-intended,
sometimes they just can't showup in ways that we would have
wanted.
Right Back to your own story,and I'm sure the difficulties
(40:02):
that you had with your mom andthe way that she couldn't show
up for you in the ways that youwanted to, those aspects created
part of your own narrative, notintended to.
Just that's just the way thatit goes.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
Right, well, and what you said, something there
that's so important, which isalso being able to recognize
that.
I'll use my mother as anexample.
My mother has her own story andmy mother has her own narrative
and she looks at life throughher story and through her
narrative and it took me yearsto figure that out and it
(40:41):
doesn't allow me to accept herbehavior, but it does allow me
to take some grace and notpersonalize some of her
behaviors now, because that isher story and her narrative and
in some ways, she doesn't knowhow to do it any differently
because of her narrative.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Right.
That is your perception of whatis real in this life, right,
and you remind us of a greatpoint, and, being a parent
yourself, you know this right,so that you had the gift of
self-discovery and gaininginsight throughout your life.
Not everyone signs up for thatgig.
Not everyone even understandsthat it's available to them,
that they just don't understand.
So you have to remember thatSomething you just said, that
(41:52):
you haven't accepted.
It, which brings me to a termin DBT that we use a lot, and
it's called radical acceptance,and this is a very difficult one
.
Radical acceptance asks us toaccept all the things we don't
want to, the things we don'tlike, the things we push back on
(42:13):
, the things that have caused uspain and harm.
We don't want to accept them.
However, go back to MarshaLinehan.
Her definition of suffering isour inability to accept reality
on reality's terms, because wekeep coming back to things over
and over, expecting them to bethe way we want them to be, and
(42:37):
then we're incrediblydisappointed when that doesn't
happen.
And we meet with people, placesand things all the time.
Now, we don't have to likethings.
We don't have to give our stampof approval on everything
either.
However, to refuse to thereality of a situation.
A person is going to be painfulin the beginning.
(42:59):
Pain subsides though.
The intensity of pain decreasesover time, right.
(43:20):
The suffering, though, justkeeps us swimming in it over and
over and over again, right.
So, although you don't have tolike the choices your mom made
you don't have to like herdisposition.
You don't have to like the wayshe approaches life.
You don't have to like the wayshe parented you very much have
(43:41):
to accept that that is thereality of who she is, and
without that, you will staysuffering in that relationship.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
That is.
I'm like I'm getting therapy.
Guys.
This is amazing.
But you're right, it'saccepting that she is who she is
and she is who she is becauseof her narrative, and just
accepting that.
That is just.
I love how you said that isjust the reality and that is.
Those are just the facts,that's it Just.
You said that is just thereality and that is.
Those are just the facts.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
That's it.
Just the facts, man, just thefacts.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
They're just the facts, right.
And then when you look at itlike it's just the facts, you're
also I at least can see howover time I could, I could
remove the emotion from thefacts because it isn't an attack
on me, it isn't intentional.
Even if it is, it doesn'treally matter.
It's just the facts.
Because it isn't an attack onme, it isn't intentional.
Even if it is, it doesn'treally matter.
It's just the facts Right.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
And I think that that concept could help us come to
terms with some of the thingsthat we've done, that have
happened in our own lives.
Right, there's parts of ourstory that we must accept.
Yeah, and we have to acceptthem because it's true and it
happened.
We don't have to like it, wedon't have to approve of it, we
(44:57):
don't have to even align with it.
However, we must accept that ithappened.
We must accept we did the thing, we did it, we said it.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
It happened Right.
Yes, it existed, it's out thereit is that's it Out in the
ethers.
Yep, we've all done things.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yes, now once you accept it.
If that's something you don'tlike, you can be responsible for
changing it.
You could pivot, you can changecourse.
However, to deny the existenceof something just keeps you
suffering.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
to deny the existence of something just keeps you
suffering.
You're so wise, oh my goodness,thank you.
I feel like I've learned somuch, so hopefully everybody
who's listening feels likethey've learned the same things,
or just little nuggets alongthe way of what you said,
because you've said so manypowerful things, and before I
move into the last two things Iwant to ask you to close, I just
(45:48):
want to make the statement thatsometimes I think therapists
get such a bad rap becausepeople feel like they go to
therapy and they just talk andno one ever gives them anything
tangible to walk away with.
And what I love about the workthat you do is you actually help
people with tools.
You're not telling them what todo, but you're giving them some
tools and ways of thinking thatcan help them make change, and
(46:11):
so I thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Thank you, thank you so much.
I think the most importantpiece is empowering people to
know that they have it withinthem to make the changes, that
if we can take our power backand stop giving it out to the
world and oftentimes, jean, wetry to control everyone and
(46:37):
everything that's going on, andthat is our way to feel powerful
, and that is not where ourpower lies.
Our power lies in the way werespond to our environment, and
we are fully in control of that.
So I think probably one of thegreatest ahas is giving people
(46:57):
that that, honestly, in the end,you don't even need me.
You can figure all of this outon your own and you can choose
the way you respond by gainingthat insight, doing your
homework into understand why itis you're reacting and
responding in that way.
That's where our personal powerlies.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yes, oh, that's beautiful.
I'm going to be creating alittle, real little mini clip of
that so we can listen to thaton repeat.
All right, I have two things Iwant to talk about before we
have to go, because I've takenup so much of your time and I've
gotten my own personal therapysession, so thank you.
First one is I love to ask myguests that are in the personal
(47:57):
growth wellness space what doespersonal wellness look like for
you.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
what it means, without sounding too corny, is
living a thousand percentauthentically.
And let me just pull thecurtain back on that, because
that is the big words that areon stage Now.
What's behind that is acommitment to everything that I
(48:25):
was just saying, a commitment todoing that deep dive into
yourself, uncovering thatnarrative, ironing it out,
getting a story that's actuallyaccurate.
That is wellness.
Living authentically is livingyour true story, not the
fabricated version of thenarrative that we come up with.
(48:48):
So it's doing all the work andthen getting out on stage and
being your authentic self.
And why?
Because you discovered who thatauthentic self really is.
That is wellness.
When your outer world feelsreflective on what's going on on
the inside and they match,that's wellness.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
And you are living proof of doing that and doing
the work.
I love it.
Yeah, perfect, okay.
One last question I ask all myguests to recommend a book, if
they wouldn't mind, that hasimpacted them either
professionally or personally,because I do feel that books
change lives and I read most ofthe books that my guests
recommend because I just amcontinually learning.
So is there a book that youwould like our listeners to read
(49:33):
or recommend that they read?
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yes, this was a tough one because, as you can imagine
, there's thousands of greatones out there.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
It's hard to pick one .
There's so many great self-helpbooks out there, so many guests
are like I can't pick one, yeah, however, this was easy.
Speaker 1 (49:52):
This was easy.
Yeah, it's the Alchemist.
Oh, yes, absolutely hands downthe Alchemist.
Okay, the story in theAlchemist really boils down to
it's not getting the thing thatwe want the most in life.
That's life.
It's discovering who you are inthe process of getting the
(50:13):
things.
It's the journey that forcesyou to find all the aspects of
yourself right.
That is the gift in life isthat that journey creates who
you're going to become.
So, again, going back to theradical acceptance of accepting
(50:34):
all the parts, the good parts,the not so good parts, the happy
parts, the painful parts,understanding that they were all
part of the process of youbecoming who you are today, I
can tell you wholeheartedly,jean, there's no way I could be
sitting here in this chair, inthis office, doing any of the
(50:55):
work that I have done, withoutall the painful parts of my own
journey that really uncoveredeverything that I was meant to
be in this life and parts that Iam sure I haven't even
uncovered yet.
There is still so much more ofthe journey ahead of me, so many
rocks that I haven't eventurned over yet.
(51:18):
So it definitely is the journey.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
All right, I'm going to have to get that book,
because you're not the firstperson who's recommended that
one and I haven't read it yet.
That's a must read for sure.
A must read, okay good, thankyou so much.
I will put in the show noteshow everyone can get in touch
with you, but I would assumethat you accept clients anywhere
.
People don't have to come andsee you in person in New Canaan.
Correct me if I'm wrong aboutthat, but I would think if there
was someone who doesn't livehere in Connecticut who was
(51:42):
interested in working with you.
Do it via Zoom, is that correct?
Speaker 1 (51:46):
That is correct in the states that I am licensed to
practice in.
So yes, we offer in-person andtelehealth in the three states
that I'm licensed to do clinicalwork in.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Perfect, I love it.
Yeah, but sometimes you knowwhat, even in Connecticut, I
find sometimes I don'tnecessarily have time to drive
and park and, like you know, youdon't ever want that to be the
excuse.
So there are people that I'veworked with for various
modalities here in Connecticutthat don't even live very far
away from me and people are like, why don't you go in person?
I'm like because that is anextra hour.
I have to say that's an extrahour and so sometimes Zoom is
(52:23):
better.
Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yeah, zoom, we can do Zoom, zoom in the state of
Connecticut and because we are,sucht is and I just find it
really fascinating, so thank youfor your time.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with everybody,
being so open to it and forhelping us and for just being a
really fabulous guest, and Ihope you have a beautiful day.
Thank you so much.
It was so great to be here.
Thanks, jean, okay, and we'llstay in touch.
We'll talk soon.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of the House of
Germar podcast, where wellnessstarts within.
(53:11):
We appreciate you being a partof our community and hope you
felt inspired and motivated byour guest.
If you enjoyed this episode,please write us a review and
share it with friends.
Building our reach on YouTubeand Apple podcasts will help us
get closer to our mission toempower 1 million women to live
all in.
You can also follow us onInstagram at House of germar and
(53:35):
sign up to be a part of ourmonthly inspiration newsletter
through our website, house ofgermarcom.
If you or someone you knowwould be a good guest on the
show, please reach out to us atpodcast at House of germarcom.
This has been a House of Germarproduction with your host, jean
Collins.
Thank you for joining our house.
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