August 14, 2025 • 52 mins
What happens when you abandon the corporate career you've spent decades building—with no backup plan? Leigh Burgess knows this territory intimately. After twenty years climbing the healthcare administration ladder at prestigious institutions like Duke and Dartmouth, she found herself sleeping just two hours a night, physically deteriorating, and completely disconnected from her authentic self.
In this raw and revealing conversation, Leigh shares the moment she realized the strategy that had always worked—taking on more responsibility—was now destroying her health and happiness. Her bold decision to quit without a plan led to co-founding a company with her daughter and creating the BOLD framework (Believe, Own, Learn, Design) that now guides individuals and organizations through meaningful transformation.
Leigh offers powerful insights about identity beyond title, challenging the stories we tell ourselves, and redefining success on deeply personal terms. "Your values are really the things that are the filter for your actions and, ultimately, your beliefs," she explains, pinpointing how misalignment in these areas inevitably leads to burnout.
The discussion explores practical exercises for discovering your true "why," techniques for silencing imposter syndrome, and why fear should be viewed as a signal rather than a stop sign. Leigh's vulnerability about her own journey—including how her brother's death when she was six shaped her need to make everyone happy—creates profound connection points for anyone questioning their current path.
Whether you're contemplating a career pivot, recovering from burnout, or simply seeking greater alignment between your values and daily life, this episode delivers both inspiration and tactical frameworks for taking that first bold step. As Leigh wisely notes, "You don't have to have it all figured out—you just need to know the next ten steps."
Ready to discover how choosing yourself might be the boldest and most rewarding move you'll ever make? Listen now and begin reimagining what's possible in your own life.
Leigh's Book Recommendation: The Ambition Trap by Amina AlTai
Leigh's Book: Be Bold Today: Unleash Your Potential, Master Your Mindset, and Achieve Success
More about Leigh:
Leigh Burgess is a visionary leader, dynamic connector, and catalyst for change, dedicated to empowering others to step into their boldness. After over 20 years in the corporate world, she launched Bold Industries Group, a platform that’s redefining what it means to live and lead with purpose. Through her Bold events, the Bold Leaders Collective community, The Bold Lounge Podcast and her impactful speaking and coaching, Leigh inspires changemakers to elevate, lead, and live their boldest and best life.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leighburgess23/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theleighaburgess
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@boldindustriesgroup
Leader-Decide-Matters-Deliver/dp/1394343477
House of JerMar: houseofjermar.com
Empowerment Fundamentals Course: https://members.houseofjermar.com/empowerment-course
Instagram: instagram.com/houseofjermar/
YouTube Channel: youtube.com/@Houseofjermar
Read Jeanne's Book: Two Feet In: Lessons From an All-In Life
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Your values are really the things that are the
filter for your actions and,ultimately, your beliefs.
So my values were, you know,very, very misaligned and that
is why I became burnt out and Ididn't know that when I was
going through it.
I think everyone around meprobably knew it was burnt out,
but I didn't.
I was just working really hardand put my head down doing my
job and couldn't figure out why.
(00:21):
I couldn't figure it out.
I think that was the most, youknow, frustrating thing for me
is like I had figured it outbefore and everything I'd done
before fixed it, which was takeon more responsibility, do more
work, but it wasn't fixing it.
And you know, obviously you getto a point where you just
that's not the answer and itwasn't the answer before.
(00:41):
But I think my values werefamily relationships, time off,
like being, you know, being ableto understand and be creative,
like, because if you don't haveany space for yourself, it's
hard to think.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Welcome to the House of Germar podcast, where
wellness starts within.
The House of Germar is alifestyle brand, empowering
women to live all in throughinterior design and personal
wellness.
We are a destination for womenready to reimagine what is
possible in their homes andlives and then create it.
We are honored to have you joinus on our mission to empower 1
(01:17):
million women to live all in.
I am your host, jean Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
I am your host, jean Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
Welcome to the House of Germarpodcast, where wellness starts
within.
I'm your host, jean Collins,and today we are talking about
being bold.
I am so honored to have LeighBurgess as our guest today.
She wrote a book.
(01:38):
I loved it everybody.
For those of you that can seehere, it is Be Bold Today.
Her journey is reallyfascinating.
Her story is interesting, herbook amazing.
We're going to talk about it.
She's another one coming out andshe just has a really
interesting approach to how youcan manifest and create your own
life and design your own life,and she uses the word design as
(02:00):
the D in bold and those of youwho follow me know I'm a
designer at heart.
So, leigh, welcome to the show.
Thank you very much for havingme.
It's great to meet you, thankyou.
So we are recording this on aTuesday and I will say my
landscapers have just arrived,everyone, so my dogs, I
guarantee, are going to bark.
(02:20):
So just bear with us.
This is real life.
So just bear with us.
This is real life.
So, leigh, talk to us aboutjust at a high level, your
journey in life, because I amsure you didn't start out saying
I want to run this businessthat you have.
You also have your daughter whoworks for you, your books, your
coaching, everything thatyou're doing.
So how did you get to where youare, to have the business that
(02:41):
you have now?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, so obviously the journey is a bit long, but
I'll try to do my best here,just to give you a brief version
, an overview.
So a lot of my career I was inthe corporate setting.
So, from a career perspectiveof the journey, you know, went
to college, went to school, allthat jazz and ended up in, you
know, the place that I wanted tobe, which was in corporate
healthcare.
(03:02):
So a lot of my time I was inlarge academic institutions and
an operations role which I just,you know, really enjoy being in
ops and got to a point in 2020where I was burnt out, ran
pretty hard at you know,incredible institutions, but
just got to a point where I justkept taking on more
responsibility to fix problems.
(03:24):
And it just got to a pointwhere I just kept taking on more
responsibility to fix problemsand it just got to a point where
I just wore myself out inaddition to kind of just an
unhealthy place, and I ended upquitting my job without having a
plan, which is not recommendednor what I normally would do on
any level.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I love that.
I love that, though.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
That is bold, you go it was bold, but I think I had
to choose myself.
Really, my health was really,on every level, had deteriorated
and you know, I gained weight,I wasn't moving, I was reactive.
It was the middle of thebeginning of the pandemic,
whatever the heck you callAugust of 2020.
And I just made the decisionwith my family that you know, we
(04:03):
needed to make a change andtried all the normal stuff
trying to get a job but that's adifficult time to do it in
general and really knew that wecould figure it out.
So I had to really think abouthow to do that, with a short
runway, with a little bit ofsavings, a little bit of
retirement, and my daughter andI co-founded the company.
(04:24):
So she's actually a co-founderof my company.
She had just finished herpost-grad program at MIT and she
also was impacted by, you know,the world shutting down.
So she's 25 years younger thanme, so a great way to also have
a different vantage point.
So that's how we kicked it offand I really needed something to
follow to know what to do next,and I couldn't find anything.
(04:45):
And that's how we kicked it offand I really needed something
to follow to know what to donext, and I couldn't find
anything and that's actually howthe bold framework was created
was just for me to figure out mywhat's next.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I love that and your daughter brings the younger
generation.
No offense to us, but you knowshe really does, which is
amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, definitely a different point of view, a way
to look at things, certainly,and also just an incredible
person to have, you know,insight into what we're doing,
as well as you know, to give mefeedback, because a lot of the
times I think I have to do moreto accomplish what we want to do
, and at times she's very, youknow, very straightforward and
(05:21):
you know to the point andletting me know like no, that's
the opposite of what we need todo.
It's not always more.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oh, I love that, I love that.
So, when you started, was ityou wanted to do coaching?
You wanted a course, like, oryou wanted a book, like where
were you in terms of, oh, thisis and where I'm getting at,
this is like, this is my newidentity.
Like, where were you going withit?
Because, as working moms andjust as women in general, we
(05:51):
tend to define part of ouridentity by our corporate job
and our corporate career andwhat we do.
And so when you make that bigtransition, in that pivot, where
were you seeing?
You know your identity as itwas going to go with this.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, I was 48.
So I honestly felt like I hadlost who I was.
I didn't really know.
I knew I was a very hard worker, really good at my job.
I think there's a myth thatwhen you're in burnout you're
not good at your job, and that'snot it.
You may not be doing it like atthe 100 percent level, but
you're still doing a really goodjob, but you're just extremely
unhealthy.
I think one of the things thatI wanted to do was actually be
(06:28):
able to introduce myself withoutactually stating who I worked
for and what my title was.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
That's actually something I do.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah.
So like, please introduceyourself, but don't tell me
where you work or tell me yourtitle.
I love that and this is likeeveryone kind of pauses.
So I think I had done that.
I didn't think that I reallyfelt like my identity was part
of that, but it truly was.
I mean, it was a wonderful youknow, there were wonderful
places where I worked at Dukeand at Dartmouth and very proud
of those moments.
But I wanted to actually figureout who I was and what my
(06:59):
identity was.
For a little bit I didn't eventhink I'd be going back into
healthcare because I was soburnt out and 20 plus years and
just kind of, you know, justreally worn out.
I really want to explore.
So we had kind of an idea ofjust like, don't limit yourself,
let's just see what thepossibilities are.
(07:19):
We know that we have a littlebit of a runway and let's just
get healthy number one.
And so I did take some time off, believe it or not, even though
that's a very stressful time.
You're like I got to get a joband I got to be able to do all
this.
I need a paycheck, yeah, butyou can't do that if you're a
nub.
And so I really, for the firsttime, took a vacation without a
(07:40):
phone.
I took time off, I took time tobe outside as silly as that
sounds, but when you work incorporate you're not outside
very often, just walking to andfrom the car and so I really did
take time to do that.
And then I explored kind of whatwould be possible.
One of them was events andinterior design.
Really I love both of those.
(08:01):
One of them was around barbecuesauces and music.
We love to grill out and I'm abig music fan, so we were going
to name sauces and rubs andseasoning after songs.
And then there was consulting,which is where I ended up
actually starting.
So I ended up starting inconsulting and creating a model
for that.
Actually, the D90D is designedin 90-90 days, because that was
(08:24):
one of the things that I reallyfelt was a challenge in
organizations was just, we weredoing a lot to get better but it
was taking too long.
So I wanted to work verypointedly and I think I wanted
the organizations to radicallyprioritize what they wanted so
that we could get stuff done in90 days for strategic sprints.
So I ended up starting off inconsulting, never thought about
(08:46):
being a coach, never wanted tohave a podcast, never thought
about having retreats, amembership or every now and then
thought about books, but Ididn't really know if I really
felt that was the time to bedoing that type of thing.
So I think I was still figuringit out initially and I was
looking for what I wanted to doand who I was at 48.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Ooh, which I love that I've had.
I'm listening to you talk andyou and I have such similar
paths.
I did mine.
I did mine at 50.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
So I just did mine two years.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I just did mine two years after you and I did it
like eight months before youbecause I did it starting in
January of 2020.
And that whole, who am I?
And just being so burned out.
And I want to just say onething that you said that I love
so much which phase of ofquestioning whether I really was
good at that job, especiallybecause I got fired.
I didn't quit, I got fired andso, but I was just like you're
(09:54):
talking, I'm like that was me.
I was so burned out, I had noidea who I was.
I just couldn't get excitedabout going back.
It was killing every part of mylife and I didn't realize it
until I was forced to step awayand then trying to figure out
who I am and where do I want togo, and in my journey, just like
yours, similar if I look backat the last five years, I would
(10:15):
have never imagined five yearsago I would be where I am today.
Right, and same is probablytrue for you.
And what I find is interestingabout that is, you know, coming
from a corporate background, wesit down in corporate America
and you're like, ok, what's theone year plan?
What's the three year plan?
What's the five year plan?
You plan it all out, but then,once you start to get into a
(10:37):
different flow and become opento the possibilities that the
universe will bring to you, it'shard to come up with a five
year plan Like do you think now,five years ahead, are you much
more narrow?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I think if I have anything that's a five year,
it's a general.
I want to buy, meaning that youknow I want to get to this
place.
I want to see this excel.
I want to see this end and thisbegin within five years.
Like you know, my five-yearplan I'd love to have 20 acres.
I'd love to be on a farm and berescuing animals in some safer
(11:12):
form.
You are like my soul sister, yes, so like that's like five years
, I think, for me.
I think you know one, you knowmilestone coming up is the end
of the year.
What do I want to do by the endof this year?
And that's really close and,believe it or not, it's you know
, five to six months away.
And then you know for me, ayear from now, like I think
(11:34):
that's reasonable.
But getting anything likefarther out from that that is
totally planned out to the T ischallenging.
But I think there are certainthings within businesses that
you have to do, but it isgenerally not like that five to
10 year plan is how we operateour lives anymore.
At least I don't think I can.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I'm with you, all right.
So before we get into your book, I do have a question.
You created this process, thismethod, this bold framework
let's call it Right and youtalked about how you started
your consulting business andcame up with a framework for
businesses.
How did you deal with theimposter syndrome that I am sure
happened of why is anyone goingto listen to what I have to say
(12:16):
?
And maybe you didn't have it,but I feel like all of us, as
entrepreneurs, have had that,and I asked the question because
I think a lot of people who areconsidering becoming
entrepreneurs struggle with howdo they move forward in that
process.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, I had never been introduced to even being an
entrepreneur.
It wasn't how I was raised.
My parents were entrepreneurs.
I didn't know any entrepreneurs, so doing it to me felt, you
know, like 5x scary, because Ireally didn't even have anyone
to ask and I think one of thebiggest things I had to do was
really be fueled by self-belief,which is why the B of bold is
(12:51):
believe, and I had to believe Icould do it.
Everyone around me believed Icould do it.
But it was interesting that Ihad never felt imposter syndrome
until I was an entrepreneur.
I honestly never had it in thecorporate world.
I was always like, very to thepoint outspoken, I was hired for
getting things done.
I mean, it was just, you know,I felt very much in my place
(13:14):
there, but I felt as anentrepreneur, like I didn't know
what I was doing and it was avery weird thing to be an expert
or, you know, a C-suiteexecutive.
To now I'm running my owncompany but I don't feel like I
know what I'm doing.
So I think how I dealt with itwas really just believing and
understanding.
If I had some type of momentwhere I wasn't believing in
(13:36):
myself, what was coming up Likeif you know, I think for me
there was a sense that I had todo it all, that I had to figure
everything out, and that isn'tthe truth.
You know, like in the sense ofsure you need to know generally
what you're doing and whatyou're about, but I wasn't like
I quit and then what do I do?
I'm sitting at my desk.
I mean, when I gave my notice,I incorporated, so I started the
(13:56):
paperwork with the state andthat, to me, started to open up
like I honestly feel like partsof my brain that had been shut
down, the creative side, thething that think about
possibilities.
You know, I mentioned the fourdifferent businesses, but as
silly as those may sound tosomeone else, those are things
that I find joy in and I reallythe main thing I wanted to do
(14:19):
was find my happy place again.
You know inside me not goingsomewhere because I would be the
beach, but I mean you knowinside me where I want me to be,
like, you know, a happy place,and so I was really looking for
that.
So I think for me, how I dealtwith it was really to really do
the work when it comes to beliefand really ownership, which is
(14:41):
the second letter, and for me Iwas owning way too much stuff
that wasn't mine to own in thefirst place, and so that's where
.
That's where it all started, Ithink belief and ownership.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, oh well, good, I always feel like, at least for
myself.
It was like, even though it wastotally scary and, just like
you, I had no idea how to be anentrepreneur, no clue, and there
was so much I didn't know.
I always used to go back tolike, tapping inward and being
like okay, but you had all thissuccess in corporate America and
you could do that.
(15:10):
You did that, you created that,you manifested that, you worked
hard and you created it.
So if I work hard now and Ireally believe that I have the
capacity to create somethinggreat, even if I can't even
define it or don't know how todo my books or all the other
things, it can happen.
I can figure it out.
I can figure it out.
I'm smart, I can figure it out.
(15:32):
And one of the other thingsthat I learned was I learned how
to ask for help, much more sothan I think I would have had I
been younger.
And I always try to say topeople as a lesson, like learn
from us at this age, asking forhelp is not a sign of weakness,
it's a sign of intelligence, bybeing willing to ask for help
(15:52):
with what you don't know how todo.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Right.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I think I'm getting better atthat.
But I also still get ticked off, I think, when I do finally get
like the gumption up to ask forhelp and then someone's like
nope, and so it happens, but itdoesn't happen all the time.
I think it's like one in 20times, right, most of the time
(16:18):
when you ask, someone will guide, provide or help you kind of
figure it out.
I think there's also the sideof being an entrepreneur that,
honestly, I'll just say for me,like I enjoy not knowing
something and going and tryingto figure it.
I don't know about you, butlike I don't want someone just
to hand me the answers, like Iwant to be like okay, let me
figure this out.
So it's my path or the way thatI would do it.
And that's one of the greatestthings I think you know I know
every day who's in charge.
(16:38):
It's me, right?
So I think, yeah, and I'm notusing my energy to align with.
You know the normal stuff thathappens in any bureaucracy, the
politics, the.
You know somewhat.
You know the relational thingsthat can be all for stressing,
or you know, just take energywithin any type of organization,
which is just normal, butyou're using your energy for
(17:04):
other things, and part of myenergy was figuring it out For
sure, which I love and youcontrol your energy, and that's
so important.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And you control the energy of the people that are
around you and you can choosewho comes into your universe as
an entrepreneur and does theirenergy lift you up and do they
inspire you and challenge you.
And I loved how you talk aboutcontinual learning, which is the
L right, so you talk aboutlearning.
So, before we give away thewhole book in pieces that people
don't understand, it's hard forme not to talk about it.
(17:30):
No, but I, and I was reading, Iwas like oh, my goodness, I do
all these things, I love this.
So let's talk about your book.
So let's talk about BOLD.
So, if you could, let's gobackwards.
Let's just explain what is bold, what does that mean, what are
the acronyms, and then we'llstart there.
Sure.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
So a way I've learned my entire life, really probably
from middle school on, was tomake everything an acronym.
So I remember it, you know, ifI'm studying for a test or or
whatever.
It seemed to have worked.
So I did the same thing withthis, and the reason that I
chose the word bold was that Ifelt like I had made a pretty
bold move, right?
I think before then, the onlytime you ever would hear me say
(18:08):
the word bold was with my team.
I would say we're gonna take abig swing of bold here, we're
going to do it anyway, but we'regonna learn regardless, right?
We're not sure it's notguaranteed.
So for me, bold stands forbelieve, own, learn Design, and
it really is a framework thatyou go through, you know, from
beginning to end, at leastinitially, and then you may go
(18:29):
back and revisit certain piecesor parts of it really throughout
your entire life, because itisn't like you do it once check
and then I move on.
So your beliefs really do guideyour actions, whether you know
it or not.
It's the foundation ofeverything, and really digging
into that and believing inyourself really is what the B
and the B section of theframework are all about, and
(18:51):
understanding your beliefs.
You know how do you talk toyourself, how do you set
yourself up for success.
Are some of those things likewe were just talking about,
imposter syndrome?
Like I have an activity in thebook where you just kind of
write down, you know yourthoughts or things that you're
saying about yourself, and thenit's like, is that really true?
Like you were saying, it's likeno, that's not so, like, let's,
let's write that in our mind.
(19:12):
The ownership piece is reallyabout owning what you should own
and letting go of what youshould not, which sounds a whole
lot easier than it really is inreal life.
But you've really got to do thework here.
And for me, I realized that Iwas never owning anything
positive.
I was always owning what waswrong, what was broken, what
needed fixed, which is coolbecause I love to fix things.
But it isn't cool when youdon't ever celebrate, get happy
(19:36):
about, take a moment and reallyrealize all the things you've
accomplished.
I just really skipped over thatcontinually and it was like,
yeah, we did it.
Okay, what do we need to donext?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Moving on.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, and I think that's also how I ran my career
was like what's next?
What's the peak, let me getthere.
And I would get to it and I'dbe like, wow, that one's taller
over there, I'm going to go overthere, right, okay, go over
there, yeah.
(20:08):
You don't take a moment to pauseand reflect on all that you've
accomplished and the positives.
Yeah, so that really digs intoowning what you should and I
think the other thing that comesalong with this have you been
ascribed, meaning you're tothink a certain way, you're to
be at a certain point?
You know a certain type ofexpectation by just how you were
raised, or maybe by yourculture, or maybe by your
parents, like you know myparents great parents but I was
good to go to school, get adegree, get into corporate.
Keep my head down.
Don't make a lot of fuss, lee,which was, you know usually what
(20:30):
my dad would tell me everySunday dinner keep your head
down.
And that's just not me, but heknows me.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I've known you for all of 25 minutes.
And I would say that does notsound like you at all.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Right, yeah, and then retire and then live your life.
And I was like, well, thatdoesn't make a lot of sense to
me, right, you know we'resupposed to be living while
we're doing it, so you may havethings that also.
You know maybe someone'sfearful of something, or maybe
that they would never do it, sothey've told you never to do it.
So these are things that reallyhave been ascribed, meaning you
didn't subscribe to those typesof beliefs they've been given
(21:05):
to you, and I had to workthrough those too, about just
even being an entrepreneur, notbeing in corporate.
I think the other thing that'sjust important to realize is not
everyone's going to understandwhat you're doing, and that may
hurt a little you know, when itcomes to your friends or your
colleagues or people you thoughtyou had something in common
with, and you're like whoa, likewe only had whatever.
(21:25):
Like maybe the strife or maybethe we didn't you know get along
with a certain person, or weworked on a project, like that's
the only thing we had in common.
Because once you leave thatplace, which was a big piece of
your identity and someonedoesn't know you anymore, then
that means they really didn'tknow you Right was a big piece
of your identity and someonedoesn't know you anymore, then
that means they really didn'tknow you right.
So that's a big piece of theownership too, I think, in there
.
And then the learning is reallyabout applying that growth
(21:47):
mindset on a continual basis ofyou know the PDSA cycle on loop,
like what are we doing?
Why are we doing it?
Let's figure it out, let's getsome data, let's keep going.
Because, you know, I think mydefinition of being bold is
really feeling the fear anddoing it anyway, and I think
that's just really important forpeople to understand.
Fear is not a stop sign, it's asignal, something's very
(22:07):
important, and I think that'sone thing that I continued to
learn through the process andevery day, honestly, as an
entrepreneur.
And D is designed, and thatreally came from.
You know me wanting to designmy life, design my blueprint of
what's my next step and my path,and realizing that I didn't
have to have 500 steps figuredout.
(22:29):
I just needed the next 10, youknow, and that's where we get
into these, like if I don't haveit all figured out by you know,
equals I'm a failure or equalsI don't know what I'm doing.
And I think designing your lifereally is sometimes step by
step.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Couldn't agree more, which is so important.
And you talk in your book aboutbeliefs versus values, which I
thought was really fascinating,and you have exercises in your
book as well.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Can you?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
talk to us a little bit about the difference between
a belief and a value.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, so belief is really?
You know, obviously, what youthink and how you approach a
particular, whether it's asubject or even how you think
about yourself.
Like I am strong, I am smart, Iam intelligent, I can figure it
out.
You know those are things thatare your beliefs, or I believe
people should be honest, right?
I believe that you know Ishould walk around the block
(23:17):
today and be healthy.
You know those are the types ofthings.
When it comes to your beliefs,your values are really the
things that are the filter foryour actions and, ultimately,
your beliefs.
So my values were, you know,very, very misaligned and that
is why I became burnt out and Ididn't know that when I was
going through it.
I think everyone around meprobably knew I was burnt out,
(23:37):
but I didn't.
I was just working really hardand put my head down doing my
job and couldn't figure out whyI couldn't figure it out.
I think that was the most, youknow, frustrating thing for me
is like I had figured it outbefore and everything I'd done
before fixed it, which was takeon more responsibility, do more
work, but it wasn't fixing it.
And you know obviously you getto a point where you just that's
not the answer and it wasn'tthe answer before, but I think
(24:00):
my values were familyrelationships, time off, like
being, you know, being able tounderstand and be creative.
Like, because if you don't haveany space for yourself, it's
hard to think, believe it or not.
That sounds really silly, but Ithink in the sense of like
being creative and beingstrategic, like strategy was,
like, you know, on a Saturdaynight or Sunday morning, you
(24:22):
know, instead of actually reallybeing able to think through
like what do I want to be doing,where am I and how am I going
to like live my life and do thethings that I want to do the way
that I want to do them.
And there was just really notime to think about that when I
was in corporate because it wasjust go, go, go, go go.
And on certain times, yeah, theadrenaline kicks in and that
feels really good.
(24:43):
But I think ultimately, beingmisaligned with your values and
having beliefs that aren'tsupporting what you want to do,
ultimately can just put you in aplace where you need a reset or
you need to rethink, kind ofwhat you're doing.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, which I love, and so you talked about
something which will transitionto something else that I really
loved in your book.
So, first of all, for anyonewho hasn't bought a book, you
have to actually buy the bookbecause there are all these
exercises in there.
So it is very tactical ofthings that you walk people
through.
You explain a lot, it's easy toread, you put the key things in
bold.
You know, for people with alittle ADHD, it's like you
(25:16):
actually make it pretty simpleto follow and you have all all
these key exercises and I feltlike I grabbed a pen and I was
like, oh, let me do this youwrite the book, you, you, you
need it, right, like that's whatthey say.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And yeah, for me, like there's so many great books
out there and some of them arereally dense and I, in my the
way that I think, the way that Iapproach things, like it's hard
for me to sit and read a booklike that, so I wanted it to
have space to breathe, to bepretty.
I really wanted it to be pretty, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Oh my goodness folks, it is beautiful.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
And you know my publisher did an incredible job
with my requests and also kindof dealing with kind of what I,
you know, expected for it.
And it is a gorgeous book inthe sense of you're able to go
through it.
And someone said I appreciateyou saying that if you do like
activities because they saidit's like a workshop in every
chapter is what they said.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
It is, and it's very, very well thought out.
So, before I move on, because Ihave so many questions, but one
I want to talk about, becauseyou did such a good job of
explaining this and you just itpiggybacks off what you just
said about finding the time toreally think.
So you have an exercise inthere about understanding your
why.
Can you talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, because I had no clue what mine was at that
point.
So you can honestly kind oflike tap into what was Lee going
through.
If you read these chapter bychapter and if you've been burnt
out, I bet you're like, oh yeah, that's me too, or I felt that
way, and you feel less alone.
I think when you read the booktoo.
If you've ever kind of been inthose spaces and places but I
(26:44):
had not really thought aboutwhat I could be or what I wanted
to do for a really long time, Ifeel like I didn't know what my
purpose was.
And people will say what's yourpurpose?
You know that's a big, heavyquestion and it isn't one you
usually just rail off unlessyou've kind of aligned and
you're in a great place andthere is a percent of the
(27:05):
population that probably cananswer that pretty quickly.
But I didn't know who I was.
So I really wanted tounderstand what is my why?
Why am I doing this?
Why do I like health care?
Why do I like solving problemsthat scare other people?
You know that was for mesomething I didn't mind, you
know, running into the burningbuilding, but I wanted to know
that we were never going to havea fire again and I was going to
(27:25):
make sure that that happenedright.
So I think you know, from thatperspective, your why is really
your compass, and I needed tosit down and figure that out.
So in the book you kind of gothrough the pieces and parts to
what makes up your why and thenunderstanding for yourself, you
know, maybe your why when youwere 30 isn't the same as 40,
certainly is not the same as 50.
(27:45):
And just taking some space toactually sit down and think
about it, because ultimately, ifyou don't know that, you know,
just going through the motions,you're ultimately not really
fulfilling your purpose.
And I just needed to checkmyself in the sense of that,
because I wasn't really sure WasI supposed to be doing
(28:06):
something different or was Isupposed to use everything that
I've done to this point to dosomething new or to go back?
I really was like that personstanding in front of, like you
know, the fork in the road thathad like 10 forks, yeah, and I
just wasn't sure and no onecould tell me the answer I had
to figure it out for me Comesfrom within.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You have to find it within yourself 100%.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
But we look for answers from other people
sometimes, especially when we'relike, wow, this is a, this is
really important, I don't wantto get it wrong, right, and I
think that where we also, that'swhere we also go back to, I
think, the belief in ourselvesand how we should start there,
like, if you don't think you canfigure it out, why do you think
that?
You know, and you know you havea runway Well, I know I can do
(28:49):
that it's short, but, you know,does it mean I can't achieve it?
And I think, just reallydigging into, like, how are you
talking to yourself?
Because I know that I had to,you know, retrain myself, how I
spoke to myself.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yes, very much so.
Well, and something that Iloved about your why exercise is
it?
When I first read it I was like, oh, that makes sense.
And then you have some examples.
And then I really thought aboutit and I was like what's so
interesting about that is whenyou think about children and we
both have daughters.
And I was like when they're liketwo and a half everything is
why, why, why.
And you give an answer, andthen they're like but why?
(29:24):
And then you give anotheranswer, but why?
And so your exercise isactually so fascinating because
it forced me to sit down andreally think like deeper and
deeper and deeper, and this islike why, Right?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
And it's like OK, we really know that.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Right, like, really, like, really, why, why are you
fearful?
And so it was set.
So thank you for that.
It was a really great exerciseand it also taps into curiosity.
Right, be curious about thesenew things, and that's part of
the learning and the continuallearning that you talk about a
lot Like be curious, beinterested, you know, open
(30:02):
yourself up.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, that's another thing.
I think.
When we're younger we do thatall the time.
We ask why, and we're curiousabout just about everything.
Yeah, and somewhere along theway it gets knocked out of us or
dimmed or muted, you know, ormaybe all three, and you're not
supposed to ask why.
You're just supposed to do whatI said and you know, or how I
told you to do it, just don'teven ask.
(30:24):
And then curiosity is like, youknow, for your off time it's
not like to be, you know, duringworkouts.
You know, and I'm being likeharsh and you know, a little bit
like black or white.
But what I mean by that is likewe seem to do less and less of
that as we get older and Iseriously was craving that.
I was seriously cravingcreativity, curiosity, just
(30:45):
doing the stuff people aren'texpecting of you, coloring
outside the lines, all of that.
Whatever I wanted to do, I justwanted to figure that out.
And if it meant those things,ok, because I hadn't done that
in a very long time and it feltvery foreign.
I'll just say, to start off to,to just, you know, be able to
sleep was something.
(31:06):
As silly as that sounds, causelike towards the end I was
sleeping like just two hours anight, oh which is terrible.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
That doesn't work.
No, it's terrible.
It's terrible so like silly.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Things like that sound.
You know, things that soundsilly are really, really
important.
How you eat, how you move, howyou think about yourself Like I
had to get those in shape beforeI could even think about
jumping back into work.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, and then you start to become someone
different.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And you talked about that you start to like, grow and
become someone different.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And then, all of a sudden at least and I'm sure
this happened to you because youjust mentioned it also you look
around and you're like, hmm,the people that are around me,
they're not understanding thedifferent me, but yet you're
starting to feel more groundedwithin your side yourself,
because you're doing the workand, like your confidence starts
to build, because you feel like, no, that feels good, like,
this feels good, right.
And other people are looking atyou like, no, that feels good,
(31:59):
like this, this feels good Rightand other people are looking at
you like no, because they'restill running that rat race.
They're still doing itdifferently than you are.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yeah, or they think, because you left, you don't know
the same thing that you knewwhen you had a particular title
or were employed by a certainplace.
And at first, like I said, Ithink it was very hurtful
because I was like I'm the sameperson.
Just because I have my ownthing going on doesn't mean I'm
any less qualified.
And I think that you know, likethe prove yourself kind of
(32:28):
stuff, I had to be very carefulthat I wasn't getting back into
that because I think that waspart of my.
My understanding of myself wasthat I was really driven by I'm
not enough.
I got to do more.
I got added in.
I got to do more.
I got to add it in.
I got to do 190%, not 110.
That's low, you know like, andit's mathematically impossible
too for everyone out there.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
It is.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
But like I was driven by that and I didn't know that
until probably, you know, twoyears into even being an
entrepreneur.
I mean I was beginning tofigure it out because I was
making space to figure it out,but because of that I think I
had really driven myself to theplace I was at and in burnout.
And so why did I think I wasn'tenough?
Where did that come from?
(33:12):
And you know, I believe intherapy, I believe in coaching,
and you know, one of the thingsthat is a predominant piece of
that for me, that I figured outjust last year, honestly, at 52,
was that when my brother passedaway, he was 11 and I was 6.
And it was an accident,unexpected.
Both would be bad, but I mean,it was totally just out of left
(33:35):
field and you're six years old,in first grade, and your brother
dies and I saw how hurt myparents were and I saw how sad
they were and I was like I'mnever going to make them cry.
I'm always going to be theperson that makes them happy.
And so I just mentally justwent into that at six and I
think I carried that thread myentire life into just about
(33:56):
everything.
No one's going to be unhappy.
I'm going to try and keepeverybody safe.
I'm going to try and keepeverybody safe.
I'm going to try to keep thebad things from happening and
you know that wears you out andit's impossible to do?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
most likely, at least for me, it was yeah, and that's
your story.
That's the story that you'reputting everything up to.
That's the mirror, is thatstory you've been telling
yourself ever since you were sixand learning that that is the
story and learning how torewrite that story as well as
part, as part of your journey.
Yeah, so I have a question Llearning.
I am always so curious.
(34:29):
What do people like yourself?
How do you keep continuallylearning?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I enjoy really soaking stuff up, so I read a
lot.
So we were talking in the greenroom a little bit at the
beginning about books and I waslike, oh, how do I pick one?
In that sense, but I read a lot.
I try to be around people whowill stretch me.
So you know, you don't want tobe in places.
I don't want to be in the roomwhere I'm the smartest person in
(34:55):
the room.
I want to be the person thatprobably knows the least at
times.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, and that's scary.
And I think in the sense oflike oh, you know, someone's
going to know I don't knoweverything.
Well, that's the whole point,right?
Yeah, you know.
So I think that's one of thethings I do.
(35:24):
No-transcript five people youspend the most time with, it's
true, and so yeah, do yourinventory about who am I
spending time with and thinkabout is that a good ratio of
how I want to be and what I wantto be?
And I think the other thing thatI do is and this is, I think at
times you've got to remindyourself, even as an
(35:46):
entrepreneur is taking time offand taking space to think, and
what I mean by that is nothaving a plan, not having an
agenda, not having a to-do list,and on days I'm really really
bad at that, even recently, likeI, it was our anniversary, our
29th wedding anniversary, and Iwas like trying to plan out the
entire day oh, we'll go to acooking class and we'll go to a
(36:09):
baseball game, and then we'll.
You know, I just want to showyou how much I love you and
we'll do all these things andwe'll learn to sail.
And this was like one day.
And then I'm exhausted, right,I was getting worn out just
planning it and I was like hedoesn't really need all that.
He doesn't really want all that, he just wants to hang out.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
He just wants to spend time with you.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, so what do we do?
We went to dinner and we walkedaround.
We walked 10 miles in one day,so like that's that's an example
of something that's probablyapproachable for people, but
like you don't have to have itall figured out, and I think
that's the thing that's mostimportant for me now is just
having some space andunderstanding my vision for
where I wanna be and how I wannaget there.
If you don't have a visionmeaning what are my goals, how
(36:50):
am I setting myself up forsuccess?
And you may need to.
You know tune that I try to dothat quarterly.
It's not something that youknow.
Whatever my goal was in January,it may change by March or April
.
That doesn't mean I'm a badperson.
It doesn't mean I'm a failure.
It means I'm paying attentionto, kind of you know, the market
of my life in a way.
If you think of the stockmarket, it changes daily and
(37:11):
there's some things you're nevergoing to do just because of the
change, meaning, oh, it went upor down.
Oh, I'm not going to sell today.
Right, I'm going to stay steady.
Your life is like that too.
With your goals, oh, I'm notgoing to change my goal.
But then there are times thatyou need to like maybe something
you started isn't doing as wellas you thought.
You have all the data that saysyou should probably stop doing
(37:32):
it.
Well, you should probably stopdoing it.
Stop doing it then.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
So those are the types of things Because I think.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
sometimes we have a goal and we think, oh, if I
change my goal or if I make itlower, that means I've failed.
At least in my mind, I don'tknow if that ever plays.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Oh, I'm the same.
Oh yeah, change the goal.
It means I failed.
You moved the pin, so thereforeyou failed.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
So, like the scorecard for myself, I needed
to really retune that or changeit in a sense of it is okay to
change it as long as it makessense for what you want to
accomplish.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, and did you find?
Because I did this justrecently, just this year, I
redefined success for myself.
Oh, for sure, and I found, I,because, coming from corporate
America, success was so bound bynumbers and metrics and smart
goals.
And, and so I learned just thisyear it took me just this year
(38:26):
to be five years how to changehow I view success and
incorporate some of successaround new people that I meet,
new things that I learn and sortof developing benchmarks for
myself that are more than justthe metrics of running a
successful business as anentrepreneur.
Did you do something similar,Because I found it was like an
(38:48):
aha moment and I was like whydid it take me so long to figure
that out?
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, 100%.
I think we're trained that way,right, you know, even from grad
school, like I've talked about.
When you're in healthcareadministration, which is like
you get your MBA in healthcare,you even dress up in a suit for
school, and I didn't even knowthat that's crazy.
(39:11):
I, you know, I turned up thefirst day in a hoodie and jeans,
and I may even had a rip in myjeans, I don't know, and
everyone was in a two piece suitand we didn't have a lot of
money.
I was a young mom, I was in,you know, grad school and I was
like how am I going to buy asuit?
Like I don't, they're expensive.
And so it was just kind of likeit's ingrained in you, like how
you're going to operate andwhat you're going to do, and I
(39:32):
kind of get it.
But I do feel like you get intoa place or space in any
organization that you work andyou start to assimilate, right,
you start to fit in which, youknow you don't always want to
stand out, I guess, but you wantto be you.
So, whatever that is, that'swhat you should be.
But there is some sense ofassimilation that has to happen
(39:52):
within organizations andsometimes we assimilate too far
back and we lose who we areright, and sometimes we
assimilate too far back and welose who we are Right.
And I think success to me wasalways my title and was what I
got paid, and for me that meantI could take care of my family
ultimately, and that's what itwas all about.
And it's not what it's allabout, you know like.
(40:14):
To me, success now is like didI get outside?
Am I walking?
Am I, you know, playing withthe dogs?
Am I, you know, havingconversations with my family?
Because those were things thatI couldn't do before, I wasn't
doing like I should Believe itor not, those are success
metrics for me now, totally.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
And it's a whole different definition.
In maybe two or three yearsI'll redefine it.
I bet I will, you know, becauseI think it should change.
It isn't just one definition,it's not one dimension, because
you're not one dimension.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Right, no, it shifts as you grow.
Yeah, so you are an author andyou have a second book coming
out.
Can we talk about your secondbook for a little bit Just?
To give a plug to that.
What's your second book about?
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah.
So, believe it or not, secondbook in two years.
Two years, two books it'scoming out on the same day.
Yeah, I've been in book.
I think that's a little crazytoo, so I don't recommend that.
But I'm like, hey, why not?
Yes, you know, because it wasjust an opportunity that came to
me from Wiley and had theopportunity to take the bold
framework really to the nextlevel for organizations and
(41:19):
leaders and, since I had beendoing the consulting, really
being able to talk about mymodel.
But why I wanted to write thisparticular book was because I
couldn't understand, from aperspective of what keeps people
from taking that bold move,that first step, which is the
hardest step for people, whatkeeps them from that space?
And a lot of the times it'sfear.
(41:40):
So I wanted to understand theneuroscience around making bold
decisions.
So it's really about yourdecision-making process and then
really understanding andcounting the things that measure
boldness.
These are new metrics for yourdashboard versus, kind of some
of the ones we always see.
(42:01):
But you know how many risks hasyour team taken?
You know how many times haveyou, you know, had to you know,
retool or reset or do somethingnew within your you know your
team or within your organizationbecause of a change?
And I think you know those arejust two like little examples of
things that we can measure.
So the new book and I think youknow those are just two like
little examples of things thatwe can measure.
So the new book really isaround, you know, taking the
(42:25):
model, the bold framework.
And then really, how do you usethat?
You know in organizations Likewhat are the beliefs of our
organization?
What is my team owning thatthey shouldn't?
You know who's not owning whatthey should, those types of
things, how are we applying?
What we learned Because I alsofind, at least in healthcare,
and I bet this happens in otherorganizations is that our
(42:46):
dysfunction is cyclical, meaningthat we fix a problem a hundred
times the same way you knowthat learning, they're missing
the L of the learning Right.
And there was, like you know, aleadership change or or change
in the budget or maybe a newregulation, and then we we seem
to kind of, you know, do the,you know run around the fire
(43:08):
drill and I really can't standthat.
And you know, for me it wasjust trying to understand how do
we not do that?
How do we really, you know,maintain and understand what
we're learning and not solve thesame problem a hundred times?
Maintain and understand whatwe're learning and not solve the
same problem a hundred times?
So that was a big part of ittoo, but it's really, for me,
the evolution of the frameworkand seeing it pulled into this
was very exciting.
(43:28):
Writing for two years and I'mworking on my dissertation
another level for me.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
And so I'm excited to have the book come out.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
We're kind of in those final phases and excited
it's out there for pre-order nowif you'd want to get it.
The Bold Leader.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
The Bold Leader.
We're going to link it in allthe show notes.
I love it, all right.
So I have two more questionsfor you, with three actually,
since we're on a podcast, I wantyou to talk about your podcast,
because you also have a podcastand it's a great way for other
people to tap in and listen tosomething else.
So what made you start apodcast and tell everybody what
your podcast is about?
Speaker 1 (44:03):
The podcast again like wasn't something I thought
I would ever be doing, had noidea how to do it or even you
know where to begin.
So we just celebrated our thirdyear Congratulations, super
excited about that, and a lot ofthe technical pieces again.
My daughter she learned she'san incredible learner and she
has a team as well.
The podcast really came aboutwhen I was coaching started to
(44:27):
coach people becauseorganizations, as I was doing
the consulting, asked me tocoach the leaders on the plan
that we had and coach reallyaround some of the factors of
being bold, because I thinkthere's some myths around.
You know, being bold, thatpeople don't realize that you
will have self-doubt.
You know you won't always feelconfident, those type of things.
(44:48):
You're still human folks, you'restill a human being, not just
being like a dive-in risk takeryeah just because you're bold,
right, and so I think you knowthat was just really important.
(45:13):
But they were being bold andthey didn't even know it, and I
think that's that's really true,because I never went into a
room like, oh I'm, I'm bold, I'ma this, I'm a that.
No, I was doing things thathelp people be bold or
understand failure or change orthose types of things.
So the podcast really is kindof runs the continuum of quiet
moments of bold up to the bigger, larger moments of bold.
It could be an athlete, itcould be an author, it could be
(45:36):
every day you and me be anauthor.
It could be everyday, you andme.
And you know they're doingthings that I never could think
I could.
You know whether it's, you know, surviving cancer or creating
something for you know, my childwho passed away, so that you
know that never happens again.
I mean, these are the types ofthings that you know.
Oh, I'm not bold, I'm like,okay, you know, let's talk about
that.
(45:56):
So I think the bold loungereally was something that was
born out really just wanting toamplify other people's bold
moves that help people seethemselves in others, meaning
it's okay to not know or it'sokay to figure it out or look
what she did.
You know she made it throughand I'm not by myself and I have
someone to look toward that youknow really has done the things
that I've done.
(46:16):
So it's really meant to justhopefully inspire and help
people see that being bold comesin all shapes and sizes?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yes, and you have lots of quotes in your book from
people who've been on yourpodcast.
And they are so inspiring, ohincredible, just so inspiring
and just some incredible wordsof wisdom, and an amazing
quantity of words of wisdom aswell, from your guests.
So I encourage everybody gocheck out the podcast.
We'll link it in the show notesalso.
Well, thank you.
(46:45):
So you do a lot of things and Ijust personally am curious.
You do so many things rightCoaching, consulting, podcasts.
You write all these things.
Do you have a favorite?
Speaker 1 (47:12):
I think I really enjoy the podcast.
I always say this to the team Ihave the easy part you don't
see me editing or doing anythinglike that because I know I
could not and it's just at adeeper level.
I really, really enjoy that.
The other thing that I enjoyprobably and it's a newer thing
that I do is, you know, justhaving quality time with groups
(47:34):
of people.
So the mastermind is somethingthat I do now.
It's six months long.
I really feel like you haveopportunity to get to know each
other and those types of things,and I really enjoy writing Like
I.
I think I want to take a littlebreak after this one, you know,
just a little breather, but I,you know, I really, really enjoy
that and you know, I think thatleads to so many things like
(47:55):
meeting new people and travelingand talking to people and
speaking and to me that's whatit's all about is like just
making a positive difference inthe world, and I think through
those things I can do thatreally well.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Oh, you are so inspiring, I love it.
All right.
Last question, which I ask allmy guests, okay, especially
since you're an author right, wetalked about this before a huge
proponent of books, and I loveto have people recommend a book
or multiple books that theythink has a book has really
impacted them, either personallyor professionally, that they
would recommend that thelisteners go and read, yeah, so
(48:28):
what book or books would youlike to recommend?
And obviously we will link allof yours in the show notes.
But what would you like torecommend?
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Yeah, I'm a big author proponent as well, so I
appreciate this question.
So the one that I looked at inmy pile that is across from my
desk is the Ambition Trap byAmina Altai.
So it really takes ambition andredefines healthy ambition
versus unhealthy ambition and Ithink to me it was eye opening
(48:57):
in the sense of kind of how Ilooked at that word, just like
anyone could look at the wordbold and it could get a bad rap.
Ambition, I think, can get abad rap too, but it was really
how to understand ambition thenalso how to apply it to your
life.
So the Ambition Trap by AminaAltai would be the one I would
pick.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
I love it.
You're the first guest in awhile who recommended a book
that I've never heard of.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Okay, good, it's newer, so that's.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, it's newer from May, so that's maybe I love
that and ironically I was out todinner the other night and had
a whole debate with mygirlfriend about the word
ambitious, yeah, oh very cool,which is very ironic.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
You should have her on your podcast.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
She was putting it in a negative tone and I was like
what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (49:38):
No, and so we had this whole debate about the word
ambitious.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
So that's sort of the universe talking to me that I'm
supposed to read that book.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
So that's fine yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
All right, before we go, is there anything that I did
not ask you, that you want tomake sure you communicate to the
audience?
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah, I think the main thing is just start.
Whether you know when you thinkabout being bold, if that feels
like a very overwhelming, youknow idea, just start.
Whether it's you know buyingthe book or you know going
through the pieces of you knowhow are you talking to yourself,
just some of the initial thingsthat we talked about, and just
realizing.
You don't have to have it allfigured out, don't let that keep
(50:12):
you from who you want to be orhow you want to be.
Just take the first step, and Ithink that's sometimes, you
know, challenging for peopleeven to understand what that is,
and sometimes it's just evenwriting it down.
And so start today.
Write your goals down or writewhere you want to be by the end
of the year, and then starttaking the steps towards it.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
I love it One step at a time.
Oh, thank you so much, lee, formaking the time.
I really appreciate it.
It's been a pleasure to meetyou.
Your energy, your story is soinspiring and I see so many
similarities in my own life toyou, and one of the gifts I
think that we have of having apublic platform is being able to
inspire people with our storiesso they don't feel so alone,
and your book does a great jobof doing that.
(50:53):
Getting the chance to talk toyou has really helped me do that
, so thank you so much for yourtime and we will stay connected.
Yeah, thank you so much.
You're welcome.
Good luck with your book launchtoo.
Yeah, thanks.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of the House of
Jermar podcast, where wellnessstarts within.
We appreciate you being a partof our community and hope you
(51:14):
felt inspired and motivated byour guest.
If you enjoyed this episode,please write us a review and
share it with friends.
Building our reach on YouTubeand Apple Podcasts will help us
get closer to our mission toempower 1 million women to live
all in.
You can also follow us onInstagram at House of Jermar and
sign up to be a part of ourmonthly inspiration newsletter
(51:37):
through our website,houseofjermarcom.
If you or someone you knowwould be a good guest on the
show, please reach out to us atpodcast at houseofgermarcom.
This has been a House of Germarproduction with your host, jean
Collins.
Thank you for joining our house.
Your values are really the things that are the
filter for your actions and,ultimately, your beliefs.
So my values were, you know,very, very misaligned and that
is why I became burnt out and Ididn't know that when I was
going through it.
I think everyone around meprobably knew it was burnt out,
but I didn't.
I was just working really hardand put my head down doing my
job and couldn't figure out why.
(00:21):
I couldn't figure it out.
I think that was the most, youknow, frustrating thing for me
is like I had figured it outbefore and everything I'd done
before fixed it, which was takeon more responsibility, do more
work, but it wasn't fixing it.
And you know, obviously you getto a point where you just
that's not the answer and itwasn't the answer before.
(00:41):
But I think my values werefamily relationships, time off,
like being, you know, being ableto understand and be creative,
like, because if you don't haveany space for yourself, it's
hard to think.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Welcome to the House of Germar podcast, where
wellness starts within.
The House of Germar is alifestyle brand, empowering
women to live all in throughinterior design and personal
wellness.
We are a destination for womenready to reimagine what is
possible in their homes andlives and then create it.
We are honored to have you joinus on our mission to empower 1
(01:17):
million women to live all in.
I am your host, jean Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
I am your host, jean Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
Welcome to the House of Germarpodcast, where wellness starts
within.
I'm your host, jean Collins,and today we are talking about
being bold.
I am so honored to have LeighBurgess as our guest today.
She wrote a book.
(01:38):
I loved it everybody.
For those of you that can seehere, it is Be Bold Today.
Her journey is reallyfascinating.
Her story is interesting, herbook amazing.
We're going to talk about it.
She's another one coming out andshe just has a really
interesting approach to how youcan manifest and create your own
life and design your own life,and she uses the word design as
(02:00):
the D in bold and those of youwho follow me know I'm a
designer at heart.
So, leigh, welcome to the show.
Thank you very much for havingme.
It's great to meet you, thankyou.
So we are recording this on aTuesday and I will say my
landscapers have just arrived,everyone, so my dogs, I
guarantee, are going to bark.
(02:20):
So just bear with us.
This is real life.
So just bear with us.
This is real life.
So, leigh, talk to us aboutjust at a high level, your
journey in life, because I amsure you didn't start out saying
I want to run this businessthat you have.
You also have your daughter whoworks for you, your books, your
coaching, everything thatyou're doing.
So how did you get to where youare, to have the business that
(02:41):
you have now?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, so obviously the journey is a bit long, but
I'll try to do my best here,just to give you a brief version
, an overview.
So a lot of my career I was inthe corporate setting.
So, from a career perspectiveof the journey, you know, went
to college, went to school, allthat jazz and ended up in, you
know, the place that I wanted tobe, which was in corporate
healthcare.
(03:02):
So a lot of my time I was inlarge academic institutions and
an operations role which I just,you know, really enjoy being in
ops and got to a point in 2020where I was burnt out, ran
pretty hard at you know,incredible institutions, but
just got to a point where I justkept taking on more
responsibility to fix problems.
(03:24):
And it just got to a pointwhere I just kept taking on more
responsibility to fix problemsand it just got to a point where
I just wore myself out inaddition to kind of just an
unhealthy place, and I ended upquitting my job without having a
plan, which is not recommendednor what I normally would do on
any level.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I love that.
I love that, though.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
That is bold, you go it was bold, but I think I had
to choose myself.
Really, my health was really,on every level, had deteriorated
and you know, I gained weight,I wasn't moving, I was reactive.
It was the middle of thebeginning of the pandemic,
whatever the heck you callAugust of 2020.
And I just made the decisionwith my family that you know, we
(04:03):
needed to make a change andtried all the normal stuff
trying to get a job but that's adifficult time to do it in
general and really knew that wecould figure it out.
So I had to really think abouthow to do that, with a short
runway, with a little bit ofsavings, a little bit of
retirement, and my daughter andI co-founded the company.
(04:24):
So she's actually a co-founderof my company.
She had just finished herpost-grad program at MIT and she
also was impacted by, you know,the world shutting down.
So she's 25 years younger thanme, so a great way to also have
a different vantage point.
So that's how we kicked it offand I really needed something to
follow to know what to do next,and I couldn't find anything.
(04:45):
And that's how we kicked it offand I really needed something
to follow to know what to donext, and I couldn't find
anything and that's actually howthe bold framework was created
was just for me to figure out mywhat's next.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I love that and your daughter brings the younger
generation.
No offense to us, but you knowshe really does, which is
amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, definitely a different point of view, a way
to look at things, certainly,and also just an incredible
person to have, you know,insight into what we're doing,
as well as you know, to give mefeedback, because a lot of the
times I think I have to do moreto accomplish what we want to do
, and at times she's very, youknow, very straightforward and
(05:21):
you know to the point andletting me know like no, that's
the opposite of what we need todo.
It's not always more.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Oh, I love that, I love that.
So, when you started, was ityou wanted to do coaching?
You wanted a course, like, oryou wanted a book, like where
were you in terms of, oh, thisis and where I'm getting at,
this is like, this is my newidentity.
Like, where were you going withit?
Because, as working moms andjust as women in general, we
(05:51):
tend to define part of ouridentity by our corporate job
and our corporate career andwhat we do.
And so when you make that bigtransition, in that pivot, where
were you seeing?
You know your identity as itwas going to go with this.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Yeah, I was 48.
So I honestly felt like I hadlost who I was.
I didn't really know.
I knew I was a very hard worker, really good at my job.
I think there's a myth thatwhen you're in burnout you're
not good at your job, and that'snot it.
You may not be doing it like atthe 100 percent level, but
you're still doing a really goodjob, but you're just extremely
unhealthy.
I think one of the things thatI wanted to do was actually be
(06:28):
able to introduce myself withoutactually stating who I worked
for and what my title was.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
That's actually something I do.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah.
So like, please introduceyourself, but don't tell me
where you work or tell me yourtitle.
I love that and this is likeeveryone kind of pauses.
So I think I had done that.
I didn't think that I reallyfelt like my identity was part
of that, but it truly was.
I mean, it was a wonderful youknow, there were wonderful
places where I worked at Dukeand at Dartmouth and very proud
of those moments.
But I wanted to actually figureout who I was and what my
(06:59):
identity was.
For a little bit I didn't eventhink I'd be going back into
healthcare because I was soburnt out and 20 plus years and
just kind of, you know, justreally worn out.
I really want to explore.
So we had kind of an idea ofjust like, don't limit yourself,
let's just see what thepossibilities are.
(07:19):
We know that we have a littlebit of a runway and let's just
get healthy number one.
And so I did take some time off, believe it or not, even though
that's a very stressful time.
You're like I got to get a joband I got to be able to do all
this.
I need a paycheck, yeah, butyou can't do that if you're a
nub.
And so I really, for the firsttime, took a vacation without a
(07:40):
phone.
I took time off, I took time tobe outside as silly as that
sounds, but when you work incorporate you're not outside
very often, just walking to andfrom the car and so I really did
take time to do that.
And then I explored kind of whatwould be possible.
One of them was events andinterior design.
Really I love both of those.
(08:01):
One of them was around barbecuesauces and music.
We love to grill out and I'm abig music fan, so we were going
to name sauces and rubs andseasoning after songs.
And then there was consulting,which is where I ended up
actually starting.
So I ended up starting inconsulting and creating a model
for that.
Actually, the D90D is designedin 90-90 days, because that was
(08:24):
one of the things that I reallyfelt was a challenge in
organizations was just, we weredoing a lot to get better but it
was taking too long.
So I wanted to work verypointedly and I think I wanted
the organizations to radicallyprioritize what they wanted so
that we could get stuff done in90 days for strategic sprints.
So I ended up starting off inconsulting, never thought about
(08:46):
being a coach, never wanted tohave a podcast, never thought
about having retreats, amembership or every now and then
thought about books, but Ididn't really know if I really
felt that was the time to bedoing that type of thing.
So I think I was still figuringit out initially and I was
looking for what I wanted to doand who I was at 48.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Ooh, which I love that I've had.
I'm listening to you talk andyou and I have such similar
paths.
I did mine.
I did mine at 50.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
So I just did mine two years.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
I just did mine two years after you and I did it
like eight months before youbecause I did it starting in
January of 2020.
And that whole, who am I?
And just being so burned out.
And I want to just say onething that you said that I love
so much which phase of ofquestioning whether I really was
good at that job, especiallybecause I got fired.
I didn't quit, I got fired andso, but I was just like you're
(09:54):
talking, I'm like that was me.
I was so burned out, I had noidea who I was.
I just couldn't get excitedabout going back.
It was killing every part of mylife and I didn't realize it
until I was forced to step awayand then trying to figure out
who I am and where do I want togo, and in my journey, just like
yours, similar if I look backat the last five years, I would
(10:15):
have never imagined five yearsago I would be where I am today.
Right, and same is probablytrue for you.
And what I find is interestingabout that is, you know, coming
from a corporate background, wesit down in corporate America
and you're like, ok, what's theone year plan?
What's the three year plan?
What's the five year plan?
You plan it all out, but then,once you start to get into a
(10:37):
different flow and become opento the possibilities that the
universe will bring to you, it'shard to come up with a five
year plan Like do you think now,five years ahead, are you much
more narrow?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I think if I have anything that's a five year,
it's a general.
I want to buy, meaning that youknow I want to get to this
place.
I want to see this excel.
I want to see this end and thisbegin within five years.
Like you know, my five-yearplan I'd love to have 20 acres.
I'd love to be on a farm and berescuing animals in some safer
(11:12):
form.
You are like my soul sister, yes, so like that's like five years
, I think, for me.
I think you know one, you knowmilestone coming up is the end
of the year.
What do I want to do by the endof this year?
And that's really close and,believe it or not, it's you know
, five to six months away.
And then you know for me, ayear from now, like I think
(11:34):
that's reasonable.
But getting anything likefarther out from that that is
totally planned out to the T ischallenging.
But I think there are certainthings within businesses that
you have to do, but it isgenerally not like that five to
10 year plan is how we operateour lives anymore.
At least I don't think I can.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I'm with you.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I'm with you, all right.
So before we get into your book, I do have a question.
You created this process, thismethod, this bold framework
let's call it Right and youtalked about how you started
your consulting business andcame up with a framework for
businesses.
How did you deal with theimposter syndrome that I am sure
happened of why is anyone goingto listen to what I have to say
(12:16):
?
And maybe you didn't have it,but I feel like all of us, as
entrepreneurs, have had that,and I asked the question because
I think a lot of people who areconsidering becoming
entrepreneurs struggle with howdo they move forward in that
process.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, I had never been introduced to even being an
entrepreneur.
It wasn't how I was raised.
My parents were entrepreneurs.
I didn't know any entrepreneurs, so doing it to me felt, you
know, like 5x scary, because Ireally didn't even have anyone
to ask and I think one of thebiggest things I had to do was
really be fueled by self-belief,which is why the B of bold is
(12:51):
believe, and I had to believe Icould do it.
Everyone around me believed Icould do it.
But it was interesting that Ihad never felt imposter syndrome
until I was an entrepreneur.
I honestly never had it in thecorporate world.
I was always like, very to thepoint outspoken, I was hired for
getting things done.
I mean, it was just, you know,I felt very much in my place
(13:14):
there, but I felt as anentrepreneur, like I didn't know
what I was doing and it was avery weird thing to be an expert
or, you know, a C-suiteexecutive.
To now I'm running my owncompany but I don't feel like I
know what I'm doing.
So I think how I dealt with itwas really just believing and
understanding.
If I had some type of momentwhere I wasn't believing in
(13:36):
myself, what was coming up Likeif you know, I think for me
there was a sense that I had todo it all, that I had to figure
everything out, and that isn'tthe truth.
You know, like in the sense ofsure you need to know generally
what you're doing and whatyou're about, but I wasn't like
I quit and then what do I do?
I'm sitting at my desk.
I mean, when I gave my notice,I incorporated, so I started the
(13:56):
paperwork with the state andthat, to me, started to open up
like I honestly feel like partsof my brain that had been shut
down, the creative side, thething that think about
possibilities.
You know, I mentioned the fourdifferent businesses, but as
silly as those may sound tosomeone else, those are things
that I find joy in and I reallythe main thing I wanted to do
(14:19):
was find my happy place again.
You know inside me not goingsomewhere because I would be the
beach, but I mean you knowinside me where I want me to be,
like, you know, a happy place,and so I was really looking for
that.
So I think for me, how I dealtwith it was really to really do
the work when it comes to beliefand really ownership, which is
(14:41):
the second letter, and for me Iwas owning way too much stuff
that wasn't mine to own in thefirst place, and so that's where
.
That's where it all started, Ithink belief and ownership.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, oh well, good, I always feel like, at least for
myself.
It was like, even though it wastotally scary and, just like
you, I had no idea how to be anentrepreneur, no clue, and there
was so much I didn't know.
I always used to go back tolike, tapping inward and being
like okay, but you had all thissuccess in corporate America and
you could do that.
(15:10):
You did that, you created that,you manifested that, you worked
hard and you created it.
So if I work hard now and Ireally believe that I have the
capacity to create somethinggreat, even if I can't even
define it or don't know how todo my books or all the other
things, it can happen.
I can figure it out.
I can figure it out.
I'm smart, I can figure it out.
(15:32):
And one of the other thingsthat I learned was I learned how
to ask for help, much more sothan I think I would have had I
been younger.
And I always try to say topeople as a lesson, like learn
from us at this age, asking forhelp is not a sign of weakness,
it's a sign of intelligence, bybeing willing to ask for help
(15:52):
with what you don't know how todo.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Right.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I think I'm getting better atthat.
But I also still get ticked off, I think, when I do finally get
like the gumption up to ask forhelp and then someone's like
nope, and so it happens, but itdoesn't happen all the time.
I think it's like one in 20times, right, most of the time
(16:18):
when you ask, someone will guide, provide or help you kind of
figure it out.
I think there's also the sideof being an entrepreneur that,
honestly, I'll just say for me,like I enjoy not knowing
something and going and tryingto figure it.
I don't know about you, butlike I don't want someone just
to hand me the answers, like Iwant to be like okay, let me
figure this out.
So it's my path or the way thatI would do it.
And that's one of the greatestthings I think you know I know
every day who's in charge.
(16:38):
It's me, right?
So I think, yeah, and I'm notusing my energy to align with.
You know the normal stuff thathappens in any bureaucracy, the
politics, the.
You know somewhat.
You know the relational thingsthat can be all for stressing,
or you know, just take energywithin any type of organization,
which is just normal, butyou're using your energy for
(17:04):
other things, and part of myenergy was figuring it out For
sure, which I love and youcontrol your energy, and that's
so important.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
And you control the energy of the people that are
around you and you can choosewho comes into your universe as
an entrepreneur and does theirenergy lift you up and do they
inspire you and challenge you.
And I loved how you talk aboutcontinual learning, which is the
L right, so you talk aboutlearning.
So, before we give away thewhole book in pieces that people
don't understand, it's hard forme not to talk about it.
(17:30):
No, but I, and I was reading, Iwas like oh, my goodness, I do
all these things, I love this.
So let's talk about your book.
So let's talk about BOLD.
So, if you could, let's gobackwards.
Let's just explain what is bold, what does that mean, what are
the acronyms, and then we'llstart there.
Sure.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
So a way I've learned my entire life, really probably
from middle school on, was tomake everything an acronym.
So I remember it, you know, ifI'm studying for a test or or
whatever.
It seemed to have worked.
So I did the same thing withthis, and the reason that I
chose the word bold was that Ifelt like I had made a pretty
bold move, right?
I think before then, the onlytime you ever would hear me say
(18:08):
the word bold was with my team.
I would say we're gonna take abig swing of bold here, we're
going to do it anyway, but we'regonna learn regardless, right?
We're not sure it's notguaranteed.
So for me, bold stands forbelieve, own, learn Design, and
it really is a framework thatyou go through, you know, from
beginning to end, at leastinitially, and then you may go
(18:29):
back and revisit certain piecesor parts of it really throughout
your entire life, because itisn't like you do it once check
and then I move on.
So your beliefs really do guideyour actions, whether you know
it or not.
It's the foundation ofeverything, and really digging
into that and believing inyourself really is what the B
and the B section of theframework are all about, and
(18:51):
understanding your beliefs.
You know how do you talk toyourself, how do you set
yourself up for success.
Are some of those things likewe were just talking about,
imposter syndrome?
Like I have an activity in thebook where you just kind of
write down, you know yourthoughts or things that you're
saying about yourself, and thenit's like, is that really true?
Like you were saying, it's likeno, that's not so, like, let's,
let's write that in our mind.
(19:12):
The ownership piece is reallyabout owning what you should own
and letting go of what youshould not, which sounds a whole
lot easier than it really is inreal life.
But you've really got to do thework here.
And for me, I realized that Iwas never owning anything
positive.
I was always owning what waswrong, what was broken, what
needed fixed, which is coolbecause I love to fix things.
But it isn't cool when youdon't ever celebrate, get happy
(19:36):
about, take a moment and reallyrealize all the things you've
accomplished.
I just really skipped over thatcontinually and it was like,
yeah, we did it.
Okay, what do we need to donext?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Moving on.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, and I think that's also how I ran my career
was like what's next?
What's the peak, let me getthere.
And I would get to it and I'dbe like, wow, that one's taller
over there, I'm going to go overthere, right, okay, go over
there, yeah.
(20:08):
You don't take a moment to pauseand reflect on all that you've
accomplished and the positives.
Yeah, so that really digs intoowning what you should and I
think the other thing that comesalong with this have you been
ascribed, meaning you're tothink a certain way, you're to
be at a certain point?
You know a certain type ofexpectation by just how you were
raised, or maybe by yourculture, or maybe by your
parents, like you know myparents great parents but I was
good to go to school, get adegree, get into corporate.
Keep my head down.
Don't make a lot of fuss, lee,which was, you know usually what
(20:30):
my dad would tell me everySunday dinner keep your head
down.
And that's just not me, but heknows me.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
I've known you for all of 25 minutes.
And I would say that does notsound like you at all.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Right, yeah, and then retire and then live your life.
And I was like, well, thatdoesn't make a lot of sense to
me, right, you know we'resupposed to be living while
we're doing it, so you may havethings that also.
You know maybe someone'sfearful of something, or maybe
that they would never do it, sothey've told you never to do it.
So these are things that reallyhave been ascribed, meaning you
didn't subscribe to those typesof beliefs they've been given
(21:05):
to you, and I had to workthrough those too, about just
even being an entrepreneur, notbeing in corporate.
I think the other thing that'sjust important to realize is not
everyone's going to understandwhat you're doing, and that may
hurt a little you know, when itcomes to your friends or your
colleagues or people you thoughtyou had something in common
with, and you're like whoa, likewe only had whatever.
(21:25):
Like maybe the strife or maybethe we didn't you know get along
with a certain person, or weworked on a project, like that's
the only thing we had in common.
Because once you leave thatplace, which was a big piece of
your identity and someonedoesn't know you anymore, then
that means they really didn'tknow you Right was a big piece
of your identity and someonedoesn't know you anymore, then
that means they really didn'tknow you right.
So that's a big piece of theownership too, I think, in there
.
And then the learning is reallyabout applying that growth
(21:47):
mindset on a continual basis ofyou know the PDSA cycle on loop,
like what are we doing?
Why are we doing it?
Let's figure it out, let's getsome data, let's keep going.
Because, you know, I think mydefinition of being bold is
really feeling the fear anddoing it anyway, and I think
that's just really important forpeople to understand.
Fear is not a stop sign, it's asignal, something's very
(22:07):
important, and I think that'sone thing that I continued to
learn through the process andevery day, honestly, as an
entrepreneur.
And D is designed, and thatreally came from.
You know me wanting to designmy life, design my blueprint of
what's my next step and my path,and realizing that I didn't
have to have 500 steps figuredout.
(22:29):
I just needed the next 10, youknow, and that's where we get
into these, like if I don't haveit all figured out by you know,
equals I'm a failure or equalsI don't know what I'm doing.
And I think designing your lifereally is sometimes step by
step.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Couldn't agree more, which is so important.
And you talk in your book aboutbeliefs versus values, which I
thought was really fascinating,and you have exercises in your
book as well.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Can you?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
talk to us a little bit about the difference between
a belief and a value.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, so belief is really?
You know, obviously, what youthink and how you approach a
particular, whether it's asubject or even how you think
about yourself.
Like I am strong, I am smart, Iam intelligent, I can figure it
out.
You know those are things thatare your beliefs, or I believe
people should be honest, right?
I believe that you know Ishould walk around the block
(23:17):
today and be healthy.
You know those are the types ofthings.
When it comes to your beliefs,your values are really the
things that are the filter foryour actions and, ultimately,
your beliefs.
So my values were, you know,very, very misaligned and that
is why I became burnt out and Ididn't know that when I was
going through it.
I think everyone around meprobably knew I was burnt out,
(23:37):
but I didn't.
I was just working really hardand put my head down doing my
job and couldn't figure out whyI couldn't figure it out.
I think that was the most, youknow, frustrating thing for me
is like I had figured it outbefore and everything I'd done
before fixed it, which was takeon more responsibility, do more
work, but it wasn't fixing it.
And you know obviously you getto a point where you just that's
not the answer and it wasn'tthe answer before, but I think
(24:00):
my values were familyrelationships, time off, like
being, you know, being able tounderstand and be creative.
Like, because if you don't haveany space for yourself, it's
hard to think, believe it or not.
That sounds really silly, but Ithink in the sense of like
being creative and beingstrategic, like strategy was,
like, you know, on a Saturdaynight or Sunday morning, you
(24:22):
know, instead of actually reallybeing able to think through
like what do I want to be doing,where am I and how am I going
to like live my life and do thethings that I want to do the way
that I want to do them.
And there was just really notime to think about that when I
was in corporate because it wasjust go, go, go, go go.
And on certain times, yeah, theadrenaline kicks in and that
feels really good.
(24:43):
But I think ultimately, beingmisaligned with your values and
having beliefs that aren'tsupporting what you want to do,
ultimately can just put you in aplace where you need a reset or
you need to rethink, kind ofwhat you're doing.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah, which I love, and so you talked about
something which will transitionto something else that I really
loved in your book.
So, first of all, for anyonewho hasn't bought a book, you
have to actually buy the bookbecause there are all these
exercises in there.
So it is very tactical ofthings that you walk people
through.
You explain a lot, it's easy toread, you put the key things in
bold.
You know, for people with alittle ADHD, it's like you
(25:16):
actually make it pretty simpleto follow and you have all all
these key exercises and I feltlike I grabbed a pen and I was
like, oh, let me do this youwrite the book, you, you, you
need it, right, like that's whatthey say.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
And yeah, for me, like there's so many great books
out there and some of them arereally dense and I, in my the
way that I think, the way that Iapproach things, like it's hard
for me to sit and read a booklike that, so I wanted it to
have space to breathe, to bepretty.
I really wanted it to be pretty, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Oh my goodness folks, it is beautiful.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
And you know my publisher did an incredible job
with my requests and also kindof dealing with kind of what I,
you know, expected for it.
And it is a gorgeous book inthe sense of you're able to go
through it.
And someone said I appreciateyou saying that if you do like
activities because they saidit's like a workshop in every
chapter is what they said.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
It is, and it's very, very well thought out.
So, before I move on, because Ihave so many questions, but one
I want to talk about, becauseyou did such a good job of
explaining this and you just itpiggybacks off what you just
said about finding the time toreally think.
So you have an exercise inthere about understanding your
why.
Can you talk about that alittle bit?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, because I had no clue what mine was at that
point.
So you can honestly kind oflike tap into what was Lee going
through.
If you read these chapter bychapter and if you've been burnt
out, I bet you're like, oh yeah, that's me too, or I felt that
way, and you feel less alone.
I think when you read the booktoo.
If you've ever kind of been inthose spaces and places but I
(26:44):
had not really thought aboutwhat I could be or what I wanted
to do for a really long time, Ifeel like I didn't know what my
purpose was.
And people will say what's yourpurpose?
You know that's a big, heavyquestion and it isn't one you
usually just rail off unlessyou've kind of aligned and
you're in a great place andthere is a percent of the
(27:05):
population that probably cananswer that pretty quickly.
But I didn't know who I was.
So I really wanted tounderstand what is my why?
Why am I doing this?
Why do I like health care?
Why do I like solving problemsthat scare other people?
You know that was for mesomething I didn't mind, you
know, running into the burningbuilding, but I wanted to know
that we were never going to havea fire again and I was going to
(27:25):
make sure that that happenedright.
So I think you know, from thatperspective, your why is really
your compass, and I needed tosit down and figure that out.
So in the book you kind of gothrough the pieces and parts to
what makes up your why and thenunderstanding for yourself, you
know, maybe your why when youwere 30 isn't the same as 40,
certainly is not the same as 50.
(27:45):
And just taking some space toactually sit down and think
about it, because ultimately, ifyou don't know that, you know,
just going through the motions,you're ultimately not really
fulfilling your purpose.
And I just needed to checkmyself in the sense of that,
because I wasn't really sure WasI supposed to be doing
(28:06):
something different or was Isupposed to use everything that
I've done to this point to dosomething new or to go back?
I really was like that personstanding in front of, like you
know, the fork in the road thathad like 10 forks, yeah, and I
just wasn't sure and no onecould tell me the answer I had
to figure it out for me Comesfrom within.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
You have to find it within yourself 100%.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
But we look for answers from other people
sometimes, especially when we'relike, wow, this is a, this is
really important, I don't wantto get it wrong, right, and I
think that where we also, that'swhere we also go back to, I
think, the belief in ourselvesand how we should start there,
like, if you don't think you canfigure it out, why do you think
that?
You know, and you know you havea runway Well, I know I can do
(28:49):
that it's short, but, you know,does it mean I can't achieve it?
And I think, just reallydigging into, like, how are you
talking to yourself?
Because I know that I had to,you know, retrain myself, how I
spoke to myself.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yes, very much so.
Well, and something that Iloved about your why exercise is
it?
When I first read it I was like, oh, that makes sense.
And then you have some examples.
And then I really thought aboutit and I was like what's so
interesting about that is whenyou think about children and we
both have daughters.
And I was like when they're liketwo and a half everything is
why, why, why.
And you give an answer, andthen they're like but why?
(29:24):
And then you give anotheranswer, but why?
And so your exercise isactually so fascinating because
it forced me to sit down andreally think like deeper and
deeper and deeper, and this islike why, Right?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
And it's like OK, we really know that.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Right, like, really, like, really, why, why are you
fearful?
And so it was set.
So thank you for that.
It was a really great exerciseand it also taps into curiosity.
Right, be curious about thesenew things, and that's part of
the learning and the continuallearning that you talk about a
lot Like be curious, beinterested, you know, open
(30:02):
yourself up.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, that's another thing.
I think.
When we're younger we do thatall the time.
We ask why, and we're curiousabout just about everything.
Yeah, and somewhere along theway it gets knocked out of us or
dimmed or muted, you know, ormaybe all three, and you're not
supposed to ask why.
You're just supposed to do whatI said and you know, or how I
told you to do it, just don'teven ask.
(30:24):
And then curiosity is like, youknow, for your off time it's
not like to be, you know, duringworkouts.
You know, and I'm being likeharsh and you know, a little bit
like black or white.
But what I mean by that is likewe seem to do less and less of
that as we get older and Iseriously was craving that.
I was seriously cravingcreativity, curiosity, just
(30:45):
doing the stuff people aren'texpecting of you, coloring
outside the lines, all of that.
Whatever I wanted to do, I justwanted to figure that out.
And if it meant those things,ok, because I hadn't done that
in a very long time and it feltvery foreign.
I'll just say, to start off to,to just, you know, be able to
sleep was something.
(31:06):
As silly as that sounds, causelike towards the end I was
sleeping like just two hours anight, oh which is terrible.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
That doesn't work.
No, it's terrible.
It's terrible so like silly.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Things like that sound.
You know, things that soundsilly are really, really
important.
How you eat, how you move, howyou think about yourself Like I
had to get those in shape beforeI could even think about
jumping back into work.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, and then you start to become someone
different.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
And you talked about that you start to like, grow and
become someone different.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
And then, all of a sudden at least and I'm sure
this happened to you because youjust mentioned it also you look
around and you're like, hmm,the people that are around me,
they're not understanding thedifferent me, but yet you're
starting to feel more groundedwithin your side yourself,
because you're doing the workand, like your confidence starts
to build, because you feel like, no, that feels good, like,
this feels good, right.
And other people are looking atyou like, no, that feels good,
(31:59):
like this, this feels good Rightand other people are looking at
you like no, because they'restill running that rat race.
They're still doing itdifferently than you are.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yeah, or they think, because you left, you don't know
the same thing that you knewwhen you had a particular title
or were employed by a certainplace.
And at first, like I said, Ithink it was very hurtful
because I was like I'm the sameperson.
Just because I have my ownthing going on doesn't mean I'm
any less qualified.
And I think that you know, likethe prove yourself kind of
(32:28):
stuff, I had to be very carefulthat I wasn't getting back into
that because I think that waspart of my.
My understanding of myself wasthat I was really driven by I'm
not enough.
I got to do more.
I got added in.
I got to do more.
I got to add it in.
I got to do 190%, not 110.
That's low, you know like, andit's mathematically impossible
too for everyone out there.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
It is.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
But like I was driven by that and I didn't know that
until probably, you know, twoyears into even being an
entrepreneur.
I mean I was beginning tofigure it out because I was
making space to figure it out,but because of that I think I
had really driven myself to theplace I was at and in burnout.
And so why did I think I wasn'tenough?
Where did that come from?
(33:12):
And you know, I believe intherapy, I believe in coaching,
and you know, one of the thingsthat is a predominant piece of
that for me, that I figured outjust last year, honestly, at 52,
was that when my brother passedaway, he was 11 and I was 6.
And it was an accident,unexpected.
Both would be bad, but I mean,it was totally just out of left
(33:35):
field and you're six years old,in first grade, and your brother
dies and I saw how hurt myparents were and I saw how sad
they were and I was like I'mnever going to make them cry.
I'm always going to be theperson that makes them happy.
And so I just mentally justwent into that at six and I
think I carried that thread myentire life into just about
(33:56):
everything.
No one's going to be unhappy.
I'm going to try and keepeverybody safe.
I'm going to try and keepeverybody safe.
I'm going to try to keep thebad things from happening and
you know that wears you out andit's impossible to do?
Speaker 2 (34:09):
most likely, at least for me, it was yeah, and that's
your story.
That's the story that you'reputting everything up to.
That's the mirror, is thatstory you've been telling
yourself ever since you were sixand learning that that is the
story and learning how torewrite that story as well as
part, as part of your journey.
Yeah, so I have a question Llearning.
I am always so curious.
(34:29):
What do people like yourself?
How do you keep continuallylearning?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I enjoy really soaking stuff up, so I read a
lot.
So we were talking in the greenroom a little bit at the
beginning about books and I waslike, oh, how do I pick one?
In that sense, but I read a lot.
I try to be around people whowill stretch me.
So you know, you don't want tobe in places.
I don't want to be in the roomwhere I'm the smartest person in
(34:55):
the room.
I want to be the person thatprobably knows the least at
times.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, and that's scary.
And I think in the sense oflike oh, you know, someone's
going to know I don't knoweverything.
Well, that's the whole point,right?
Yeah, you know.
So I think that's one of thethings I do.
(35:24):
No-transcript five people youspend the most time with, it's
true, and so yeah, do yourinventory about who am I
spending time with and thinkabout is that a good ratio of
how I want to be and what I wantto be?
And I think the other thing thatI do is and this is, I think at
times you've got to remindyourself, even as an
(35:46):
entrepreneur is taking time offand taking space to think, and
what I mean by that is nothaving a plan, not having an
agenda, not having a to-do list,and on days I'm really really
bad at that, even recently, likeI, it was our anniversary, our
29th wedding anniversary, and Iwas like trying to plan out the
entire day oh, we'll go to acooking class and we'll go to a
(36:09):
baseball game, and then we'll.
You know, I just want to showyou how much I love you and
we'll do all these things andwe'll learn to sail.
And this was like one day.
And then I'm exhausted, right,I was getting worn out just
planning it and I was like hedoesn't really need all that.
He doesn't really want all that, he just wants to hang out.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
He just wants to spend time with you.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
Yeah, so what do we do?
We went to dinner and we walkedaround.
We walked 10 miles in one day,so like that's that's an example
of something that's probablyapproachable for people, but
like you don't have to have itall figured out, and I think
that's the thing that's mostimportant for me now is just
having some space andunderstanding my vision for
where I wanna be and how I wannaget there.
If you don't have a visionmeaning what are my goals, how
(36:50):
am I setting myself up forsuccess?
And you may need to.
You know tune that I try to dothat quarterly.
It's not something that youknow.
Whatever my goal was in January,it may change by March or April
.
That doesn't mean I'm a badperson.
It doesn't mean I'm a failure.
It means I'm paying attentionto, kind of you know, the market
of my life in a way.
If you think of the stockmarket, it changes daily and
(37:11):
there's some things you're nevergoing to do just because of the
change, meaning, oh, it went upor down.
Oh, I'm not going to sell today.
Right, I'm going to stay steady.
Your life is like that too.
With your goals, oh, I'm notgoing to change my goal.
But then there are times thatyou need to like maybe something
you started isn't doing as wellas you thought.
You have all the data that saysyou should probably stop doing
(37:32):
it.
Well, you should probably stopdoing it.
Stop doing it then.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
So those are the types of things Because I think.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
sometimes we have a goal and we think, oh, if I
change my goal or if I make itlower, that means I've failed.
At least in my mind, I don'tknow if that ever plays.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
Oh, I'm the same.
Oh yeah, change the goal.
It means I failed.
You moved the pin, so thereforeyou failed.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
So, like the scorecard for myself, I needed
to really retune that or changeit in a sense of it is okay to
change it as long as it makessense for what you want to
accomplish.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, and did you find?
Because I did this justrecently, just this year, I
redefined success for myself.
Oh, for sure, and I found, I,because, coming from corporate
America, success was so bound bynumbers and metrics and smart
goals.
And, and so I learned just thisyear it took me just this year
(38:26):
to be five years how to changehow I view success and
incorporate some of successaround new people that I meet,
new things that I learn and sortof developing benchmarks for
myself that are more than justthe metrics of running a
successful business as anentrepreneur.
Did you do something similar,Because I found it was like an
(38:48):
aha moment and I was like whydid it take me so long to figure
that out?
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah, 100%.
I think we're trained that way,right, you know, even from grad
school, like I've talked about.
When you're in healthcareadministration, which is like
you get your MBA in healthcare,you even dress up in a suit for
school, and I didn't even knowthat that's crazy.
(39:11):
I, you know, I turned up thefirst day in a hoodie and jeans,
and I may even had a rip in myjeans, I don't know, and
everyone was in a two piece suitand we didn't have a lot of
money.
I was a young mom, I was in,you know, grad school and I was
like how am I going to buy asuit?
Like I don't, they're expensive.
And so it was just kind of likeit's ingrained in you, like how
you're going to operate andwhat you're going to do, and I
(39:32):
kind of get it.
But I do feel like you get intoa place or space in any
organization that you work andyou start to assimilate, right,
you start to fit in which, youknow you don't always want to
stand out, I guess, but you wantto be you.
So, whatever that is, that'swhat you should be.
But there is some sense ofassimilation that has to happen
(39:52):
within organizations andsometimes we assimilate too far
back and we lose who we areright, and sometimes we
assimilate too far back and welose who we are Right.
And I think success to me wasalways my title and was what I
got paid, and for me that meantI could take care of my family
ultimately, and that's what itwas all about.
And it's not what it's allabout, you know like.
(40:14):
To me, success now is like didI get outside?
Am I walking?
Am I, you know, playing withthe dogs?
Am I, you know, havingconversations with my family?
Because those were things thatI couldn't do before, I wasn't
doing like I should Believe itor not, those are success
metrics for me now, totally.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
And it's a whole different definition.
In maybe two or three yearsI'll redefine it.
I bet I will, you know, becauseI think it should change.
It isn't just one definition,it's not one dimension, because
you're not one dimension.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Right, no, it shifts as you grow.
Yeah, so you are an author andyou have a second book coming
out.
Can we talk about your secondbook for a little bit Just?
To give a plug to that.
What's your second book about?
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah.
So, believe it or not, secondbook in two years.
Two years, two books it'scoming out on the same day.
Yeah, I've been in book.
I think that's a little crazytoo, so I don't recommend that.
But I'm like, hey, why not?
Yes, you know, because it wasjust an opportunity that came to
me from Wiley and had theopportunity to take the bold
framework really to the nextlevel for organizations and
(41:19):
leaders and, since I had beendoing the consulting, really
being able to talk about mymodel.
But why I wanted to write thisparticular book was because I
couldn't understand, from aperspective of what keeps people
from taking that bold move,that first step, which is the
hardest step for people, whatkeeps them from that space?
And a lot of the times it'sfear.
(41:40):
So I wanted to understand theneuroscience around making bold
decisions.
So it's really about yourdecision-making process and then
really understanding andcounting the things that measure
boldness.
These are new metrics for yourdashboard versus, kind of some
of the ones we always see.
(42:01):
But you know how many risks hasyour team taken?
You know how many times haveyou, you know, had to you know,
retool or reset or do somethingnew within your you know your
team or within your organizationbecause of a change?
And I think you know those arejust two like little examples of
things that we can measure.
So the new book and I think youknow those are just two like
little examples of things thatwe can measure.
So the new book really isaround, you know, taking the
(42:25):
model, the bold framework.
And then really, how do you usethat?
You know in organizations Likewhat are the beliefs of our
organization?
What is my team owning thatthey shouldn't?
You know who's not owning whatthey should, those types of
things, how are we applying?
What we learned Because I alsofind, at least in healthcare,
and I bet this happens in otherorganizations is that our
(42:46):
dysfunction is cyclical, meaningthat we fix a problem a hundred
times the same way you knowthat learning, they're missing
the L of the learning Right.
And there was, like you know, aleadership change or or change
in the budget or maybe a newregulation, and then we we seem
to kind of, you know, do the,you know run around the fire
(43:08):
drill and I really can't standthat.
And you know, for me it wasjust trying to understand how do
we not do that?
How do we really, you know,maintain and understand what
we're learning and not solve thesame problem a hundred times?
Maintain and understand whatwe're learning and not solve the
same problem a hundred times?
So that was a big part of ittoo, but it's really, for me,
the evolution of the frameworkand seeing it pulled into this
was very exciting.
(43:28):
Writing for two years and I'mworking on my dissertation
another level for me.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
And so I'm excited to have the book come out.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
We're kind of in those final phases and excited
it's out there for pre-order nowif you'd want to get it.
The Bold Leader.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
The Bold Leader.
We're going to link it in allthe show notes.
I love it, all right.
So I have two more questionsfor you, with three actually,
since we're on a podcast, I wantyou to talk about your podcast,
because you also have a podcastand it's a great way for other
people to tap in and listen tosomething else.
So what made you start apodcast and tell everybody what
your podcast is about?
Speaker 1 (44:03):
The podcast again like wasn't something I thought
I would ever be doing, had noidea how to do it or even you
know where to begin.
So we just celebrated our thirdyear Congratulations, super
excited about that, and a lot ofthe technical pieces again.
My daughter she learned she'san incredible learner and she
has a team as well.
The podcast really came aboutwhen I was coaching started to
(44:27):
coach people becauseorganizations, as I was doing
the consulting, asked me tocoach the leaders on the plan
that we had and coach reallyaround some of the factors of
being bold, because I thinkthere's some myths around.
You know, being bold, thatpeople don't realize that you
will have self-doubt.
You know you won't always feelconfident, those type of things.
(44:48):
You're still human folks, you'restill a human being, not just
being like a dive-in risk takeryeah just because you're bold,
right, and so I think you knowthat was just really important.
(45:13):
But they were being bold andthey didn't even know it, and I
think that's that's really true,because I never went into a
room like, oh I'm, I'm bold, I'ma this, I'm a that.
No, I was doing things thathelp people be bold or
understand failure or change orthose types of things.
So the podcast really is kindof runs the continuum of quiet
moments of bold up to the bigger, larger moments of bold.
It could be an athlete, itcould be an author, it could be
(45:36):
every day you and me be anauthor.
It could be everyday, you andme.
And you know they're doingthings that I never could think
I could.
You know whether it's, you know, surviving cancer or creating
something for you know, my childwho passed away, so that you
know that never happens again.
I mean, these are the types ofthings that you know.
Oh, I'm not bold, I'm like,okay, you know, let's talk about
that.
(45:56):
So I think the bold loungereally was something that was
born out really just wanting toamplify other people's bold
moves that help people seethemselves in others, meaning
it's okay to not know or it'sokay to figure it out or look
what she did.
You know she made it throughand I'm not by myself and I have
someone to look toward that youknow really has done the things
that I've done.
(46:16):
So it's really meant to justhopefully inspire and help
people see that being bold comesin all shapes and sizes?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yes, and you have lots of quotes in your book from
people who've been on yourpodcast.
And they are so inspiring, ohincredible, just so inspiring
and just some incredible wordsof wisdom, and an amazing
quantity of words of wisdom aswell, from your guests.
So I encourage everybody gocheck out the podcast.
We'll link it in the show notesalso.
Well, thank you.
(46:45):
So you do a lot of things and Ijust personally am curious.
You do so many things rightCoaching, consulting, podcasts.
You write all these things.
Do you have a favorite?
Speaker 1 (47:12):
I think I really enjoy the podcast.
I always say this to the team Ihave the easy part you don't
see me editing or doing anythinglike that because I know I
could not and it's just at adeeper level.
I really, really enjoy that.
The other thing that I enjoyprobably and it's a newer thing
that I do is, you know, justhaving quality time with groups
(47:34):
of people.
So the mastermind is somethingthat I do now.
It's six months long.
I really feel like you haveopportunity to get to know each
other and those types of things,and I really enjoy writing Like
I.
I think I want to take a littlebreak after this one, you know,
just a little breather, but I,you know, I really, really enjoy
that and you know, I think thatleads to so many things like
(47:55):
meeting new people and travelingand talking to people and
speaking and to me that's whatit's all about is like just
making a positive difference inthe world, and I think through
those things I can do thatreally well.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Oh, you are so inspiring, I love it.
All right.
Last question, which I ask allmy guests, okay, especially
since you're an author right, wetalked about this before a huge
proponent of books, and I loveto have people recommend a book
or multiple books that theythink has a book has really
impacted them, either personallyor professionally, that they
would recommend that thelisteners go and read, yeah, so
(48:28):
what book or books would youlike to recommend?
And obviously we will link allof yours in the show notes.
But what would you like torecommend?
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Yeah, I'm a big author proponent as well, so I
appreciate this question.
So the one that I looked at inmy pile that is across from my
desk is the Ambition Trap byAmina Altai.
So it really takes ambition andredefines healthy ambition
versus unhealthy ambition and Ithink to me it was eye opening
(48:57):
in the sense of kind of how Ilooked at that word, just like
anyone could look at the wordbold and it could get a bad rap.
Ambition, I think, can get abad rap too, but it was really
how to understand ambition thenalso how to apply it to your
life.
So the Ambition Trap by AminaAltai would be the one I would
pick.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
I love it.
You're the first guest in awhile who recommended a book
that I've never heard of.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Okay, good, it's newer, so that's.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, it's newer from May, so that's maybe I love
that and ironically I was out todinner the other night and had
a whole debate with mygirlfriend about the word
ambitious, yeah, oh very cool,which is very ironic.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
You should have her on your podcast.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
She was putting it in a negative tone and I was like
what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (49:38):
No, and so we had this whole debate about the word
ambitious.
Speaker 2 (49:40):
So that's sort of the universe talking to me that I'm
supposed to read that book.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
So that's fine yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
All right, before we go, is there anything that I did
not ask you, that you want tomake sure you communicate to the
audience?
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yeah, I think the main thing is just start.
Whether you know when you thinkabout being bold, if that feels
like a very overwhelming, youknow idea, just start.
Whether it's you know buyingthe book or you know going
through the pieces of you knowhow are you talking to yourself,
just some of the initial thingsthat we talked about, and just
realizing.
You don't have to have it allfigured out, don't let that keep
(50:12):
you from who you want to be orhow you want to be.
Just take the first step, and Ithink that's sometimes, you
know, challenging for peopleeven to understand what that is,
and sometimes it's just evenwriting it down.
And so start today.
Write your goals down or writewhere you want to be by the end
of the year, and then starttaking the steps towards it.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
I love it One step at a time.
Oh, thank you so much, lee, formaking the time.
I really appreciate it.
It's been a pleasure to meetyou.
Your energy, your story is soinspiring and I see so many
similarities in my own life toyou, and one of the gifts I
think that we have of having apublic platform is being able to
inspire people with our storiesso they don't feel so alone,
and your book does a great jobof doing that.
(50:53):
Getting the chance to talk toyou has really helped me do that
, so thank you so much for yourtime and we will stay connected.
Yeah, thank you so much.
You're welcome.
Good luck with your book launchtoo.
Yeah, thanks.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of the House of
Jermar podcast, where wellnessstarts within.
We appreciate you being a partof our community and hope you
(51:14):
felt inspired and motivated byour guest.
If you enjoyed this episode,please write us a review and
share it with friends.
Building our reach on YouTubeand Apple Podcasts will help us
get closer to our mission toempower 1 million women to live
all in.
You can also follow us onInstagram at House of Jermar and
sign up to be a part of ourmonthly inspiration newsletter
(51:37):
through our website,houseofjermarcom.
If you or someone you knowwould be a good guest on the
show, please reach out to us atpodcast at houseofgermarcom.
This has been a House of Germarproduction with your host, jean
Collins.
Thank you for joining our house.
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