September 25, 2025 • 50 mins
What if the end of your marriage could become the beginning of your most authentic life? That's exactly what happened for Clover Lam, who transformed her devastating divorce into a complete life reinvention—retiring at 40, moving to Bali, and creating a business that helps other women navigate their own post-divorce journeys.
Clover's story begins with a shocking moment of clarity. While living in Hong Kong with her husband, a voice inside whispered: "You don't love him, you're only here for security." Though she initially ignored this intuition, two months later her marriage ended anyway, leaving her emotionally shattered and questioning everything. Rather than staying stuck in victimhood, Clover embraced vulnerability and began the deep work of peeling back layers of societal conditioning to rediscover her authentic self.
This radical self-examination led her to travel solo to 47 countries, discover financial independence, and ultimately retire from her 20-year flight attendant career to become a post-divorce wellness coach.
One of the most powerful insights Clover shares challenges our cultural assumptions about women's happiness. Statistics reveal that never-married, child-free women are actually the happiest demographic group—contrary to societal narratives that tie women's worth to marriage and motherhood. This freedom from conventional expectations allows women to design lives that truly align with their authentic desires.
Now living as a digital nomad in Bali, Clover embodies the transformation she teaches. She's surrounded by entrepreneurs and wellness practitioners who understand that inner wellness directly translates to outer success. Through her coaching practice and content creation, she's turning her pain into purpose, helping other women discover that divorce isn't the end of their story—it might just be the beginning of their most radiant chapter.
Ready to transform your own heartbreak? Connect with Clover to learn about her upcoming Bali retreat and discover how your greatest pain might become your greatest purpose.
Clover's Book Recommendation: Many Lives, Many Masters" by Dr. Brian Weiss
More about Clover:
Clover Lam is a post-divorce wellness coach, viral content creator, and the founder of The Divorce Glow-Up — a transformational method helping millennial, child-free women rebuild their lives from the inside out after heartbreak.
Divorced at 30, retired early by 40, Clover turned her own healing journey into a powerful framework that fuses mindset reframe, emotional healing, and financial empowerment. She built a $500K+ net worth on a $60K salary, quit her 20-year career, and moved to Bali solo — not to escape life, but to fully claim it.
Now, she guides women through a holistic 8-pillar process rooted in embodiment, identity, money, and self-worth — teaching them how to rewrite their story, reclaim their power, and glow from a place of authenticity.
https://www.instagram.com/thedivorceglowup
House of JerMar: houseofjermar.com
Empowerment Fundamentals Course: https://members.houseofjermar.com/empowerment-course
Instagram: instagram.com/houseofjermar/
YouTube Channel: youtube.com/@Houseofjermar
Read Jeanne's Book: Two Feet In: Lessons From an All-In Life
WELCOME TO OUR HOUSE!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Because what I realized the shame that comes
from society and the brokennessthat we feel inside as women
that maybe we're over 40, wedon't have children often comes
from societal narratives andconditioning.
And because of my whole healingprocess of me questioning every
(00:21):
single thing possible, then Istarted, started question wait,
is this true?
That if we don't have childrenas women now we're no longer
worthy?
And so I really went down thatpath of wait a second.
I don't think that's true,because statistics actually says
the happiest group are nevermarried no children.
(00:45):
Women are the happiest groupare never married no children.
Women are the happiest group ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Welcome to the House of Jermar podcast, where
wellness starts within.
The House of Jermar is alifestyle brand, empowering
women to live all in throughinterior design and personal
wellness.
We are a destination for womenready to reimagine what is
possible in their homes andlives and then create it.
We are honored to have you joinus on our mission to empower 1
(01:15):
million women to live all in.
I am your host, jean Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
Welcome to the House ofJormamar podcast.
I'm your host, jean Collins,and today, oh my goodness,
everyone I am so excited I haveClover Lamb on the show.
This woman talk about inspiring,talk about just a badass
(01:37):
entrepreneur, someone who isembracing wellness all the way.
She has made so many risks.
She has stepped outside of hercomfort zone and anyone else's
comfort zone.
She started her own business.
She retired at 40.
She got divorced at 30.
Her business, the Divorce, glowUp.
She has a whole process and Iam so excited to talk to you and
guess what?
She's coming to us from Bali.
(01:59):
Hello, yes, clover, welcome tothe show.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Thank you so much for the amazing introduction.
I'm super excited to share myjourney with your audience.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Oh, I can't wait Now.
I don't.
Normally I try not to readpeople's bios, but I am going to
read just a smidge of thisbecause your bio is so good.
So you are a post-divorcewellness coach, a viral content
creator, which we're going totalk about that because I got to
tell you she's built thisamazing following and the
founder of the Divorce Glow Up.
It's a transformational methodhelping millennial child-free
(02:30):
women rebuild their lives fromthe inside after heartbreak.
Oh my, we have so much to talkabout.
All right, so let's take a stepback and let's start with your
story and how you got to beingan entrepreneur and being the
head of the Divorce Glow Up.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, Well, of course it has to start with my own
divorce 10 years ago.
And I remember I was having apretty good time I was living in
Hong Kong at the time with myex-husband and one day I was
just brushing my teeth, havingmy morning routine I would
(03:11):
glance at my own reflection inthe mirror and a voice came out
and it said you don't love him,you're only here for security.
So I realized that was like myhighest self was speaking to me,
but of course I ignored it.
I was like, ah, there was notmuch wrong with our marriage,
(03:33):
like I'm just overthinking, so Ijust suppressed it, didn't
really think much.
And lo and behold, two monthslater my ex-husband said the d
word divorce and I was shockedstill, even though I had that
like intuition ping two monthsbefore.
But I was still like shatteredcompletely.
(03:56):
I was really shocked.
I was emotionally dependent onhim, financially dependent on
him.
I even geographically movedfrom Canada to Hong Kong for his
career advancement and so whenhe left, I was left with like
the anchor is gone, my identityis gone and like even I wasn't
(04:17):
even home.
So that pain felt like a deathbut also a rebirth.
So I really took that as anopportunity to question
everything, really Revaluateeverything in my life.
And from there I went back to myold job, which felt kind of
(04:38):
like a walk of shame, becauseeverybody knew I was like, oh,
she's, you know, moving to HongKong with her husband, she's
going to have this great life,and now I'm going to be like,
sorry guys, I'm back, so that,however I like lean into it, and
(04:59):
I became more vulnerable.
Well, before you shit talk me,let me actually just tell you
what happened.
And it became this likeconnection point that I had with
people and before Brene Brownwas a thing I realized
vulnerability it's actually likethe antidote of shame.
So, like I really like got intoit.
(05:22):
And then I started travelingmore using my flight attendant
benefits and traveled to 47countries, so many of them solo,
pushed myself out of comfortzone in every single way and
stumbled across financialindependence as well, because
the first thing that I realizedI really had to take care of
(05:44):
myself for after divorce issecurity, because my highest
self said to me you're only herefor security.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Right, yes, yes, you listened.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, and nobody is here to save me anymore, so I
really have to save myself.
So that was when I leaned intothe concept of financial
independence.
Retire early, they call it FIRE, and I've been investing ever
since, and it's been 10 years,so now I have my investment
portfolio.
So I retired early, quit my20-year flight attendant job and
(06:18):
now moved to Bali.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Okay, and you skipped so many things in that story
that I know about you, so I'mgoing to pull some other things
out of there.
Which is amazing, like retiringat 40 is unbelievable.
Having financial freedom isincredible.
Let's talk about what made youdecide I'm ready to retire, I'm
going to leave the flightattendant world and I'm going to
(06:41):
go find something else that wasactually not a spontaneous
decision, although it seemedlike that, but it was actually a
five-year planning process.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
So during COVID I got laid off temporarily from the
flight attendant job and so, youknow, when you had all that
time, you go inward, you reflectand you look at what's
happening even deeper than whenI was divorced.
So I realized that flightattendant lifestyle is fun but
(07:20):
it wasn't really my highestcalling and I knew that when I
first got hired.
But I got comfortable Like thelifestyle.
It's like I worked only 10 daysa month, I had a pension, my
flight was essentially free Likeit's so cheap that it's free.
So it was kind of hard to let goof that comfort and it was also
(07:42):
the safety net that I couldcome back to after my divorce.
So I felt like, okay, that'sjust something I need to hang on
to.
But then during COVID it reallypushed me further into like
wait, what is my highest selfreally wanting me to do?
But I didn't have a thing rightthat, could you know, provide
(08:03):
me me monetization.
So that's a lot of fear goingthrough my head and my body.
I could feel it like coursingthrough my veins and so it
paralyzed me in so many ways,and then I tested different
ideas business ideas like Istarted something called
unconventional asians.
(08:23):
It's a podcast, uh, featuringreally badass Asians who are not
in the STEM field, like doctor,engineer, lawyers.
I think Asians would understandwhat I'm saying because that's
the only three jobs that we'reallowed to do, um, so things
like that.
That I was like opening myselfup to like coaching, to therapy
(08:45):
and to life beyond justself-development but healing and
the possibility of what I coulddo with my life, and as I
tested, that didn't really workout.
And then I went to moneycoaching because I of my
financial independence.
That didn't really likeencapsulate everything about me
and eventually I now pivoted todivorce.
(09:08):
Wellness coaching for women,because it's really my life's
work, my whole life story.
That encompasses everything,and so that's why I am here.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
That is, um, I really you are so incredible because
you also do the work.
So I have a question.
What's so interesting is as youtalk, the work.
So I have a question.
What's so interesting is, asyou talk right and I'm familiar
with all this right Doing thisinner work, asking the hard
questions, stepping outside yourcomfort zone, but a lot of
people are paralyzed at step one.
They are paralyzed at evenasking the questions and even
(09:41):
like trying to find a path.
So how?
For yourself personally and Iknow that's what you help people
with now but for yourselfpersonally, while you're going
through it, what did youactually do during COVID to try
to uncover this path foryourself?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I have a framework called the Radiant Self
Reclamation and what I realizedbecause I was exposed to all
these healing modalities andthese coaches on my
unconventional Asian platform, Irealized the healing process is
about unraveling what's notyours, yeah.
(10:16):
And this radiantself-reclamation method?
It's that I find that allpeople are born like a diamond.
Imagine a diamond in the middle.
You were born perfect, radiant,resilient.
It has some edges, but it'slike a specific, unique
blueprint to you, because everydiamond is very unique but it's
(10:39):
perfect.
But then we go through lifeputting on this mask, these
layers, to protect that radiantself, because society tells you
you shouldn't be too loud, toomuch, whatever you know, and so
we keep putting on layers, thisfacade, over and over again, so
(11:00):
that we're so far away from ourauthentic radiant self.
And I think that divorce wasthe cracking open of those
layers of now you'rereevaluating everything in your
life, let's question everythingand peel back those layers.
Then you can finally come backto your authentic self.
(11:20):
So the divorce was the initialinitiation of that process and
COVID was the even deeper layer,because it's always like
peeling an onion.
And then I really then came tothat truth of who I am now.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, how did you feel about having a narrow
purpose like a narrow targetaudience?
Speaker 1 (11:45):
oh, that feels so good because I was experimenting
for so long and everythingseems like they go together, but
they don't.
So I was kind of throwingspaghetti at the wall, yeah, and
it felt like, was I doingsomething wrong?
People always tell us we need aniche, and so this is like the
(12:07):
perfect thing that encapsulateseverything about what I do, but
it's like clear enough and aboutwho I'm serving, which is like
the perfect combination.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Right, exactly, yes.
Well, and I will tell everybodyI know you from Brand Builders
Group and which we are both apart of, which is really about
helping build a personal brandand finding your niche and
finding your purpose and whatyou are mission-driven messenger
for and really what that is foryou, and then helping you build
that out into the world.
And so I can see some of thatwork in what you're doing and
(12:42):
just how clear you are about whoyou are to serve.
And one of the other brandbuilder things are we're best
positioned to serve the personthat we once were, and I find
for myself personally, I attractexecutive women who are in the
same space, you know, burned out, overwhelmed at crossroads.
That is my niche, that was me,and so your niche is so you,
(13:04):
because you are serving womenthat you once were and have come
out of it.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Exactly yeah, and we're in our purpose.
We turn that pain into purpose.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You did Correct.
Now let's talk about one otherthing which is unique about you.
You also don't have anychildren, and you talk about
that as a powerful thing, so canyou talk a little bit about
that?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Because what I realize the shame that comes
from society and the brokennessthat we feel inside as women
that maybe we're over 40, wedon't have children often comes
from societal narratives andconditioning.
And because of my whole healingprocess of me questioning every
(13:45):
single thing possible, then Istarted question wait, is this
true?
That if we don't have childrenas women now we're no longer
worthy?
And so I really went down thatpath of wait a second.
I don't think that's true,because statistics actually says
the happiest group are nevermarried.
(14:08):
No children.
Women are the happiest group ofpeople and the second happiest
group of people, who also livethe longest, are married men
Right Interesting.
So that means that marriedwomen oftentimes have to do a
lot of the emotional labor, thehousework, but they're also
(14:30):
working because we have comeinto a society where you know
the feminine empowermentmovement, where we're allowed to
have jobs.
Now we can make money, but themasculine hasn't caught up to
the emotional intelligence thatthey are providing us.
So there is an imbalance of theinvisible work that women have
(14:52):
to put in and not beingacknowledged for it, and so I
think a lot of us are waking upto question is that like a
patriarchal conditioning or isit something that we truly want?
And it's a question that I'veasked myself after divorce why,
why do I want kids beyond whatsociety told me that it's why I
(15:18):
want it, and I realized myanswer was legacy is why I
wanted kids.
But legacy doesn't have to bedone through a child, correct.
It can be done through mywisdom that I'm sharing with
people and I then find that mybusiness is my baby.
Yes, and this is my legacy andI can actually help more people,
(15:41):
not just the one kid or the fewchildren that I'm going to bear
.
Say never when I find the rightpartner.
Maybe I will do that one day,but at this point in my life I
don't see myself in it and thatis okay, and I've completely
made peace and happy with thatdecision.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Which is a lot of work, and I think you can offer
that as value to so many womenwho really struggle with that
and really, at your core, beingspace of being okay with where
they are now and trusting that,however it's meant to be in the
future is how it is meant to be.
All right, let's talk aboutBali.
(16:34):
Okay, what?
So?
I've been following you onInstagram and your whole like
Bali experience, which is, oh myGod, amazing.
So how did you decide Bali iswhere you're going next?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Mm.
So as a flight attendant I'vetraveled a lot and before COVID
I actually slow traveled likedigital nomads.
Before digital nomads was evena thing.
I already knew of thatlifestyle.
With even a thing I alreadyknew of that lifestyle and a lot
(17:08):
of the financially independentpeople that I know are already
living that lifestyle.
So I've tried Bali, I've triedThailand, I've tried Vietnam,
all these popular spots and Iknow Bali it's the eat, pray,
love destination.
Yes, it is Uh-huh, yeah, and Icome to to Bali, not actually as
the reason most people thinknot to be in paradise, which it
(17:31):
is, but it's actually to focuson my business.
Yes, because most people, mostwomen who go through heartbreak,
tends to love Bali for thehealing energy and for the
community, and so this isactually the first reason why
I'm in Bali.
But I talk about alignment alot and it is very aligned to me
(17:52):
, like down to how I like todress, like Bali island life.
That's actually how I like todress and how I like to express
and the food that they have here.
It's what I like to eat and thecost of living is so affordable
that it just like everythingjust works perfectly and there's
(18:12):
such a big digital nomadentrepreneur community here that
I can learn from each other andjust oh, it's so amazing.
I go to meet up groups likethree times a week, just
learning from so many otherpeople, and so this is like the
perfect place for me to reallyfocus on my business and thrive
and not have to worry too muchabout finances.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yes, you post things and you'll be like here's my
meal for five US dollars and I'mlike, oh my goodness, that's
insane.
So, just for people who mightnot know, how would you define a
digital nomad?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
A digital nomad to me is someone who can work
remotely, so they work on thelaptop and they're not confined
to a location.
So basically, locationindependent Right.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Okay, and you went to Bali with like a suitcase of
stuff and that was it, a bigsuitcase, a check-in suitcase
and a backpack.
Amazing.
And how long.
When you left, how long wereyou intending to stay?
Like, what was your plan?
Oh, like forever.
So what did you do witheverything else you own?
(19:26):
You're like I don't ownanything else, I only because I
remember you were posting oninstagram about the process of
having to like narrow it down towhat you were going to bring.
Yeah, so what did you do withall the other?
And I just asked this becausewe're often so attached myself,
personally, I definitely am toour personal belongings and that
those are part of us and partof your journey.
(19:47):
Is that you don't have all ofthat with you while you're doing
this journey and building thisbusiness?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, that's just such a great question because
the thing is I have done thisseveral times of moving places
and purging things.
Part of my unique story withfinances is that I used to own
real estate and the financialindependent space actually talks
about investing.
So I made the really crazychoice of selling my condo to
(20:17):
rent a room and invest theequity into socks, and that
opens up a lot of flexibility.
Now to be able to live in aroom, that means you have to let
go a lot of stuff.
Yes, but it was a veryconscious choice because I
noticed myself, even when I ownthe condo, I literally only stay
(20:40):
in the room Like I actuallydon't use the living space, and
so I'm like wait, if I don'teven use that space, why am I
paying for it?
So it's not really for me asacrifice.
The rest of the time I'm outtraveling anyways, and so now
I've built this life where I'mdoing the same thing, and so
when you don't have that muchspace, you naturally pare down
(21:05):
your belongings, but then thisdigital nomad lifestyle that I'm
embracing really forced me togo even further down into like a
suitcase, because the thing iswith traveling is that you are
the person who carries yourstuff.
Yes, and it's so uncomfortableevery time if you do have to and
(21:29):
I'm like a small girl for me tolike carry that many things,
yes, and so for me it's more mysanity that I'm saving, that I
can always buy little things onthe road that I would need, that
I can dispose of later, but Ionly keep the things that truly
like, maybe have meaning, andthey're surprisingly a stuffed
(21:52):
animal that I'm bringing thatare taking up so much space.
But to me it's like a memory.
But everything else to me canbe disposed.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Can go Right.
And you did bring your pillow,I thought that was really cute.
You brought.
You're like, I'm going to bringmy pillow and you carried your
pillow on the plane.
I remember you being gratefulthat you had your pillow, so in
your journey in Bali.
So where have you landed now?
In terms of how long are yougoing to stay in the place that
you are renting right now?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, I'm in this current place for four months,
four more months, because I havethe visa for Bali for six
months.
Okay, got it.
This is more tax things, butalso weather.
So I came from Raincouver, wecall it, and so I really don't
(22:39):
want to repeat that againwhenever possible, and so I'm
escaping the rainy season fromBali.
So I'm going to leave inNovember to go to Thailand, when
it's perfect weather in ChiangMai also a digital nomad haven
and then go to Vietnam, which isthe perfect timing during
February and April.
So this is like optimizingtaxes and weather, basically.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Okay, all good things , all good things.
So in your journey to gettingto living in the place that
you're living in now, you didsome exploring and stayed in
different places to get a lay ofthe land.
What was the hardest aboutgoing through that process?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Great question Lifestyle design really knowing
what you want, want whatelements make you happy as a
person and everyone is sodifferent.
Yes, I don't care too muchabout space, like how much space
I need, but I need convenience,so I prioritize that over the
(23:41):
amount of space that I have.
So I noticed that about myself.
I like water a lot, yeah, beingcloser by the beach, and so I
prioritize that too.
So I don't know if you knowabout Bali, the different
pockets of it.
I'm in the beach side, thebeachy towns called.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Chenggu.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And then there's also Ubud, which is where Iprela was
built, but it's all like lushgreens and forests and there's
no beach, and that's why I'm notthere, because I know that I
like the beach.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You want the beach.
Right, you post about the beach.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
The beach looks amazing, yeah, amazing just
being aware of, like, what yourvalues are, how you, what lights
you up, I think, with lifestyledesign is how I come to this
place, and costs as well,because I was a money coach and
so I like try to optimizeeverything possible right, right
(24:34):
, you're living.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
You are living off a budget.
Let's, yeah right, like moneyis not infinite, you are living
off a budget, but you're doingan amazing job of doing it.
So let's talk about creatingcontent.
And then we're going to diginto your formula and everything
that you do in coaching.
But let's talk about content.
What may you have in yourdescription of who you are as a
content creator?
You create a lot of content onInstagram.
You, I think, create a lot ofvaluable content, yet have come
(24:59):
across one of the challengesthat people have on social media
of getting the wrong type offollowers, who are not positive,
are not welcoming, are notsending out positive notes about
what you're posting.
So first let's talk about howdid you decide you wanted to
create content and put yourselfout onto social media creating
this content?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I think there needs to be a role model, be a role
model especially in this type oftaboo topics that people don't
really talk about, especiallyfor Asians I think that is quite
(25:39):
rare.
So there's a lot of shame thatcomes in to the whole topic of
divorce.
And I've done my walk of shamefor many years and I'm no shame
anymore so not to say I'mcompletely no shame, but I've
processed a lot of it and so Ifeel the it would be such an
inspiration for others for me tobe the guinea pig, to put
(25:59):
myself out there, so then theycan see that, hey, I can be the
permission for you to have yourbest life after divorce.
It's not the end of the world,really.
And yeah, and I don't know ifyou know about human design, yes
, and human design, I'm a 3-5profile, okay, so it means it's
the life experimenter, so it isthe guinea pig that I'm going to
(26:23):
go into the hole, let me findwhat's inside the hole and I'll
come out and like so you don'trepeat the same mistake.
So that's kind of what I'm likeliterally wired to do and I'm
like not afraid to do it andit's fun for me.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yes, yes, well, I remember when I first started
following you and you werestarting to create content, it
was like you created it allhorizontally and I'm like, but
that doesn't really work onreels.
And then you like figured itout and you were like, okay,
wait, let me.
And you were just so honest,though, about like I'm kind of
playing, I'm just sharing mylife, I'm trying to figure out
what people want to know, whatpeople want to see.
You were really honest about it.
(26:57):
How do you deal with the peoplethat respond negatively?
How do you keep that frompenetrating your energy?
Because it's hard not to takeit personally.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
That was an entire process.
It's the inner work that we'vebeen doing that is helping me
navigate that, not to say that Istill don't get bothered by it.
I think I still have like maybe5% left, but at the beginning
it was very, very triggering toall the wounding that I needed
(27:27):
to see.
And one good thing about likethe whole in-lure work is that I
think triggers areopportunities for healing, yes,
and so if I get bothered bythose comments, that is that
okay, perfect opportunity.
Let me see what, what I do.
I need to really heal, and sothe more that comes, it almost
(27:49):
becomes like um, like a leveragethat I can either use it as
content to empower more women orI just see them as projections
of what society is still dealingwith and why my work is even
more important than ever.
So then these women feel likewow, okay, like she gets
(28:11):
projected on a lot.
Well, three, five projector alsocan project it on a lot and so
just like making peace with okay, like being in the limelight,
getting trolls is actually agood sign, because people
actually care enough for astranger to use their energy to
(28:33):
write something on your postactually means you made it right
so it's like, oh so when thefirst day that I ever got trolls
, I'm like, oh my god, I made it.
That is such a made it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
That is such a good reframe.
That is such a good reframe itreally is, because it's hard
when people don't see the valuein your message and your message
is so personal.
It's hard to not take thatpersonally as a personal insult
to you, but I love the reframeof it and I also like how you
reframed it as they areprojecting, which is also so
(29:06):
important when we talk aboutgrowth, work like someone else
is projecting themselves ontoyou.
That doesn't mean it's actuallyeven about you, it's actually
about them.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I mean, of course, there is accountability as well,
and so it's like which part ofit is projection from their side
and which part is it it'striggers on my side and being
able to even discern that waspropelling my growth actually.
So these tools were helping mein a way, for my healing.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
That's so great, so wonderful, all right.
So let's talk about yourbusiness, because you are in
Bali and to some people, if theyonly follow you every once in a
while, it looks like you knowmassages, incredible food,
walking on the beach.
But yet I know you actuallywork like eight hours a day.
You actually are working.
You go to a workspace and work.
(29:57):
So what are you working on?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
There is a lot of pieces to building a business,
as we know.
But on the outside, people see,oh, you're making content.
How hard can that be?
But imagine you're making likea mini movie where you're the
director, you're the actress,you're the script writer, you're
the videographer, you're theeditor just that, just that's
(30:23):
just content.
A videographer, you're theeditor, just that, just that's
just content.
Right, and then you have tothink of ideas.
So that's like you doing that.
It's already a full-time job andyou're managing the people's
comments.
And then there's the backend oflike, okay, you're going to
build your message.
Uh, what kind of program areyou developing?
What kind of thought leadershipthat is original, that is yours
(30:44):
, what kind of framework?
And so those are the thingsthat I was working on.
So then I can deliver quick winsfor my clients that create
transformation, because I'm notlike.
I'm really about authenticityand integrity, and so I've
walked the walk.
But I also need to create toolsfor my clients to be able to
(31:05):
get results.
And so testing on myself andmaking sure to simplify all the
things that I've been doing inthe past in a way that is simple
to understand, and so all theseinner workings is happening in
the background that I'm workingaway, which it's not really seen
(31:26):
, you know, it's just really inthe background work Right and it
takes a lot of time to createthat content, to create a
framework, to create whateverthat content is that you're
going to give to your clientsthe steps, the process
explaining it though, thequestions, the probing, the work
it's.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
It's a lot to build that.
I don't know that peopleappreciate that quite enough.
So how do your coaching clientsfind you?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
A lot of them come from Instagram.
They do, yeah.
So right now I'm also doingnetworking in Bali as well as
another way to get the words outthere, so it can be a word of
mouth, and being on podcasts andjust basically exposing myself
as in many ways as possible.
(32:12):
So that is how I am getting myexposure right now.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Do you ever have days where you have a little
imposter syndrome, like isanyone going to care?
Is this really a value?
Does anyone really want to buymy services, work with me, all
the things?
Does that ever happen Likeevery day?
Okay, good, thank you.
I'm glad to know you're humanAll right Every single day.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Welcome to being an entrepreneur, everybody.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
This is real life, exactly so what do you do?
What specifically do you do todeal with that?
Because fear and impostersyndrome is very, very real for
entrepreneurs, especially whenyou are trying to pave a way
that feels very personal andthat is new and that doesn't
exist.
What do you do to deal withthat?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I think I needed to have evidence.
Sometimes I don't trust likethe oh, believe in yourself, and
all of that stuff.
I need like tangible evidenceto believe it.
And so right now, when I'mtalking to my clients, talking
with potential clients, I seethat like something is clicking
within them and it's like okay,that is working or what is not
resonating.
And just tweaking that as thethree, five and so even that
(33:26):
process to me is actually reallyfun and realizing how much I
actually know when I talk topeople, because sometimes you're
completely blinded by your owngifts because you kind of take
it for granted, of course, butwhen you reflect that back out
and you're like, oh, actuallymaybe I've done something in my
(33:47):
life and so that's helping mereally affirm.
And the second thing is Itaught I talked to Chad I call
him Chad, chad GBT, and I reallylike even the trolls and stuff
like that.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
It's like, oh, I'm having a lot of self-doubt.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I call him Chad, chad GBT, and I really like even the
trolls and stuff like that.
It's like, oh, I'm having a lotof self-doubt, Like I'm typing
all the things Like, why am Ihaving all these thoughts and
the validation that comes back,but also not just you know, all
acknowledgement, but what arethe blind spots that I needed to
see so that I can become better?
And just knowing that, like,any new skill is not supposed to
(34:27):
be perfect and your client onlyneeds you to be a few steps
ahead, not all the way, and infact, if you're too perfect,
you're not relatable.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yes, and and that's a mentor.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, it's about how can you care enough for them to
lift them up?
Just right, a few steps up.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Right, and you don't have to have it all figured out
either in order to be able tomake that step.
And we never will Right, whichis such an important point,
because so many people don'tstep into their purpose and
don't step into their callingbecause they don't.
They feel like they don't haveit all figured out, and you've
mentioned that a couple of times.
Like you knew, being a flightattendant, wasn't it?
(35:09):
But you weren't sure what was.
And that's a very common space.
And even entrepreneurs, as weare building our business, we
don't always know where it'sgoing and representing to people
and showing them that that'sactually okay.
This is a journey.
Everything in life is a journey.
There is no end.
The end is when you die, butit's all a journey, and so you
(35:29):
make such an important point,and I've had other coaches and
entrepreneurs come on and say,as a coach, you just have to be
a few steps ahead of wheresomeone is, because you already
know more, have done more,experienced more and have value
to add to them, which isbeautiful.
So let's talk for a minuteabout wellness within your life,
because you are in Bali and tome, I'm like Bali massage,
(35:54):
facials, incredible food outside, sun, exercise, walk beach, so
meditate to me feels very likehome.
Everyone is meditating,everyone is tapping in Nord,
everyone is living this veryinner wellness lifestyle.
Is it really like that?
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yes, and it's so motivating when everyone is
doing that.
Yeah, is it and everyone has abusiness.
So it's okay, like everyone,because I think, as
entrepreneurs, there's thisdrive to be always improving in
a way, and so we're motivated,we're growth mindset, and so we
(36:39):
know that you're how you prepareyour vessel yes, how, and the
energy that you give off willtranslate to the outcomes of
your business.
So inner wellness translates toouter wellness, right, and so
it has to be that balance.
And so being in Bali which issomething very interesting I
never thought of, but obvious inhindsight is there is this
(37:01):
spiritual energy about Bali thatmakes you confront a lot about
yourself.
Interesting.
It's a bit feminine in natureand it's been said multiple
times by other cultures, byother healers that have moved
from a different country to Bali.
It attracts a certain type ofpeople.
(37:22):
So you're like you either itfeels so uncomfortable that you
will leave Bali or you face ithead on, and so everyone who is
here then it's gravitatingtowards that, like higher
version of ourselves that we'reworking towards Doing the work.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Is that the one thing that surprised you the most, or
are there other things thathave surprised you?
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I don't think it was surprising because I've been
here before, but it just morelike how crowded it is now since
the pandemic because there'smore remote work, there's more
digital nomads around the worldand so bali has kind of become
that place for a lot of us.
Also, the cost of living andinflation is getting out of
(38:10):
control in like first worldcountries and so a lot of people
are kind of doing the four-hourworkweek concept like from tim
ferris, so they call it geoarbitrage, meaning making money
from the us like usd right, likegreat currency, but then like
spending indonesian rupee out,just like yes so that's like
(38:34):
just that alone you're getting agreat lifestyle for nothing,
but you're still making a lot,and so that's how you save money
, that's how you can invest thedifference and stuff like that,
and so I think everyone whocomes here like understand that.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yes, and that is so powerful.
It's like that.
I went to Portugal recently andthe cost of living there is so
inexpensive compared to theUnited States.
But everyone we spoke to waslike but if you're making money
here, it's not, it's actuallyvery expensive.
So the key is you need to bemaking US type of money, doing
something remote, and then havethat be what's supporting your
(39:09):
lifestyle in a country likePortugal or Bali or all these
places where it's less expensive.
That's the financial key to it.
Do you want to talk at allabout your eight step process,
your pillar process?
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah for sure.
Yeah, it's really my owntransformational process that
I've gone through in the past 10years in the most condensed,
simple way possible.
So the first two steps, it'sreally inner wellness, right,
it's about peeling that, thoseonion layers that you've been
(39:45):
masking towards your radiantself.
So it's first rewriting thestory mindset of going from
being a victim of divorce to avictor.
Yes, and how do you catchyourself when you're going back
into that victimhood?
(40:06):
And we all do in our own way,right, like the thoughts in our
mind.
And I have a process, a toolcalled the peace tool, that
actually gets you back into,like wait, which thoughts do I
want to choose right now?
Yes, so that's a first pillar.
And then emotional healing, ofcourse.
(40:27):
But emotional healing wasinteresting is that most people
think they're feeling, butthey're actually thinking what
they're feeling?
Ah, yeah, big difference, bigdifference.
But yes, you know the book, theBody Keeps the Score.
But yes, you know the book, thebody keeps the score.
Emotions and trauma is storedin the body, not the mind.
So a lot of people, their firststep, which is great, it's
(40:49):
therapy, but a lot of timesthat's like mind stuff, it's the
stories, right.
So the second step is actuallythe somatic stuff, the nervous
system stuff, and so emotionalhealing because I'm certified in
embodiment is how I teach myclients to process the emotions
out of the body as it comes, sothen it can be released.
(41:11):
Yes, so that's the unravelingpart of my program, yeah, and
then the third part is nowfinding that radiant self,
reclaiming your, your identityLike who?
are you after the marriage?
Who do you want to be?
That highest self right.
And then now you have thefoundation, because you have
kind of removed the traumathat's not yours, and then you
(41:35):
know who you are and then youcan glow up in all the areas of
your life, like money, like yourlifestyle design, like your
body, your health, findingfriends after divorce, because
we tend to lose a lot of people,um, and also dating again if
you want to.
And how do you date fromwholeness not desperation.
(41:57):
Yes, you'll attract somethingvery different yeah, and so this
process is in order.
So then you're doing thingslike on a foundational level,
like my mistake was datingpretty quickly after divorce.
Yes, because I needed to feelvalidated, like, oh, I'll be
worthy again if I someone elselike likes me, someone wants me
(42:19):
yeah.
But, like now, I realize that'sstep eight, not step one, and so
I hope to help my clients, likenot to repeat the same mistakes
that I did, to go through thepain again, like after divorce,
the date, and then like, getlike abandoned or whatever
You're reliving it.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
You're hurting yourself again.
Right, it's just more pain ontop of the pain you have from
before.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
So how do we spare you from the pain.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yes, now do some people come to you even though
they are the ones who havechosen the divorce.
So divorce has been theirchoice, but yet they still have
to deal with a lot of the sameprocess emotion unraveling inner
work 100%.
And I think, a lot of the sameprocess emotion unraveling inner
work 100%.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
And I think a lot of the ones that chose to get
divorced it's like a lot of themcome from maybe having a
narcissistic ex-husband, and sothey love their ex-husbands.
It's just that this is sounhealthy that they have to
leave.
Yes, and that pain is still thesame.
(43:24):
It's because you love thatperson so much, but you also
love them and love yourselfenough to be like, okay, I can't
do this, but you're so used tobeing with that person and you
built a whole life with them.
So you still have to rebuild.
Yes, right, you still have togrieve, you still have to let go
of all those layers.
So it's a similar process.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yes, I could see that .
All right, what's on yourbucket list?
What else do you want to do?
Obviously, you have travelplans, but what else?
Speaker 1 (43:57):
What else do you want to do?
Of course I'm building mybusiness want to do.
Of course I'm building mybusiness.
But personally, something justcame up to me is I saw there is
underwater modeling, what's that?
So I always as a kid wanted tobe a mermaid.
Okay, yeah, because I loveswimming.
(44:18):
I was a competitive swimmer, Idid open water swimming, but
then I want to combine it withlike photography, like that's
like really beautiful, but thenI cannot hold my breath for a
very long time underwater, eventhough I was a very good swimmer
.
I've been like breathe prettyoften.
So it would be so cool, if Ican like, because I saw someone.
(44:40):
Someone in Bali actually has acourse that help you post
underwater and havevideographers and photographers
to actually create those photosfor you.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
And so that's so cool , it's on my bucket list.
I love that.
That's different.
Yeah, that is stretchingyourself tapping into your child
freedom.
That's incredible.
What a fun thing.
All right, so is there anythingthat I did not ask you that you
want to be able to share aboutyour journey or your business or
how you're trying to helppeople?
(45:13):
No I think you've coveredeverything Good, but then that's
good, all right.
Before we close, I always askeveryone to recommend a book.
I'm a true believer.
Books change lives, a book thathas impacted them either
personally or professionally.
So what book or book somepeople can't narrow it down to
one.
Would you like to recommend tothe listeners that they should
read?
Speaker 1 (45:32):
This book is so perfect because it encapsulates
everything that we talked about.
It's called Many Lives, manyMasters, by Dr Brian Weiss.
Yeah, because nobody talksabout this book.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I've never heard of it, and that's rare.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
This book is interesting.
It's a true story of apsychiatrist doing past life
regressions on a young patient.
Ooh, so, and the things thatshe's been saying?
She would go through differentlifetimes and describe even the
death process in between, yes,but most importantly, what she
(46:08):
learned from each lifetime.
And she would paint so manydetails to like that historical
time as well, yes, and so if youbelieve in incarnation, you
could say like this is prettyreal, because she was able to
actually like, cite the detailsof history.
As a young girl, like thatshouldn't happen.
(46:28):
But anyways, the whole moral ofthe story that I got from it was
that each lifetime that you'rehere for is to learn lessons for
your soul to evolve and to grow.
So that means that everystruggle is the gift for your
soul to ascend.
(46:49):
And so then now and I read thisbook, like in my late teens,
like 18, 19, pretty young andI've gone through a lot of other
trauma child trauma in my past,where my parents got divorced,
my dad always committed suicide,all the things Right and so
I've turned basically everystruggle into like an
(47:11):
empowerment process of okay, youknow what my soul wanted?
This, this is how I grow, andso I think that's why it has
kept me going through all theseyears, whenever something hard
happens and I just like keepturning that pain into purpose,
keep turning it into empowerment, and I think this is the whole
purpose of my life, so then Ican actually help other women do
(47:33):
the same.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Beautifully said.
Oh, that is great, but I'mgoing to have to check that book
out.
I love when someone recommendsa book I haven't heard of before
and that's very rare, so I amout.
I love when someone recommendsa book I haven't heard of before
and that's very rare, so I amexcited.
I will check that book out,clover.
Thank you so much.
It is nighttime for you in Bali.
It's morning for us in theStates, so I thank you for the
time.
You are so inspiring.
You are so fun to follow onInstagram.
(47:56):
We will make sure we tageverything in the show notes so
that people can reach out to youand if you are a woman who is
coming off divorce, thinkingabout divorce in any of that
framework, absolutely reach outto Clover because she can really
help you.
So I thank you.
You are a beautiful soul.
Thank you for the time.
Enjoy Bali.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Thank you so much for having me, and actually it's
okay for me to plug.
I might have a retreat comingup next year in Bali and so if
anybody would love that idea, DMme, give me your email, I can
put you on the mailing list andI can give you all the
information.
So if that's something that youwant to do to have the divorce
(48:36):
glow up after divorce, that's aninvitation for you.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
That is fantastic, and I will make sure we include
that in the show notes as well,because you can plug away.
A retreat with you would be areally special experience.
So thank you for that.
I hope you have a beautiful dayand I'm excited for us to stay
connected.
Thank you for being a guest.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Thank you so much, Jean.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Thank you for joining us for another episode of the
House of Jermar podcast, wherewellness starts within.
We appreciate you being a partof our community and hope you
felt inspired and motivated byour guest.
If you enjoyed this episode,please write us a review and
share it with friends.
Building our reach on YouTubeand Apple podcasts will help us
(49:17):
get closer to our mission toempower 1 million women to live
all in.
You can also follow us onInstagram at House of Jermar and
sign up to be a part of ourmonthly inspiration newsletter
through our website,houseofjermarcom.
If you or someone you knowwould be a good guest on the
show, please reach out to us atpodcast at houseofjermarcom.
(49:39):
This has been a House of Jermarproduction with your host, Jean
Collins.
Thank you for joining our house.
Because what I realized the shame that comes
from society and the brokennessthat we feel inside as women
that maybe we're over 40, wedon't have children often comes
from societal narratives andconditioning.
And because of my whole healingprocess of me questioning every
(00:21):
single thing possible, then Istarted, started question wait,
is this true?
That if we don't have childrenas women now we're no longer
worthy?
And so I really went down thatpath of wait a second.
I don't think that's true,because statistics actually says
the happiest group are nevermarried no children.
(00:45):
Women are the happiest groupare never married no children.
Women are the happiest group ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Welcome to the House of Jermar podcast, where
wellness starts within.
The House of Jermar is alifestyle brand, empowering
women to live all in throughinterior design and personal
wellness.
We are a destination for womenready to reimagine what is
possible in their homes andlives and then create it.
We are honored to have you joinus on our mission to empower 1
(01:15):
million women to live all in.
I am your host, jean Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
Welcome to the House ofJormamar podcast.
I'm your host, jean Collins,and today, oh my goodness,
everyone I am so excited I haveClover Lamb on the show.
This woman talk about inspiring,talk about just a badass
(01:37):
entrepreneur, someone who isembracing wellness all the way.
She has made so many risks.
She has stepped outside of hercomfort zone and anyone else's
comfort zone.
She started her own business.
She retired at 40.
She got divorced at 30.
Her business, the Divorce, glowUp.
She has a whole process and Iam so excited to talk to you and
guess what?
She's coming to us from Bali.
(01:59):
Hello, yes, clover, welcome tothe show.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Thank you so much for the amazing introduction.
I'm super excited to share myjourney with your audience.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Oh, I can't wait Now.
I don't.
Normally I try not to readpeople's bios, but I am going to
read just a smidge of thisbecause your bio is so good.
So you are a post-divorcewellness coach, a viral content
creator, which we're going totalk about that because I got to
tell you she's built thisamazing following and the
founder of the Divorce Glow Up.
It's a transformational methodhelping millennial child-free
(02:30):
women rebuild their lives fromthe inside after heartbreak.
Oh my, we have so much to talkabout.
All right, so let's take a stepback and let's start with your
story and how you got to beingan entrepreneur and being the
head of the Divorce Glow Up.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, Well, of course it has to start with my own
divorce 10 years ago.
And I remember I was having apretty good time I was living in
Hong Kong at the time with myex-husband and one day I was
just brushing my teeth, havingmy morning routine I would
(03:11):
glance at my own reflection inthe mirror and a voice came out
and it said you don't love him,you're only here for security.
So I realized that was like myhighest self was speaking to me,
but of course I ignored it.
I was like, ah, there was notmuch wrong with our marriage,
(03:33):
like I'm just overthinking, so Ijust suppressed it, didn't
really think much.
And lo and behold, two monthslater my ex-husband said the d
word divorce and I was shockedstill, even though I had that
like intuition ping two monthsbefore.
But I was still like shatteredcompletely.
(03:56):
I was really shocked.
I was emotionally dependent onhim, financially dependent on
him.
I even geographically movedfrom Canada to Hong Kong for his
career advancement and so whenhe left, I was left with like
the anchor is gone, my identityis gone and like even I wasn't
(04:17):
even home.
So that pain felt like a deathbut also a rebirth.
So I really took that as anopportunity to question
everything, really Revaluateeverything in my life.
And from there I went back to myold job, which felt kind of
(04:38):
like a walk of shame, becauseeverybody knew I was like, oh,
she's, you know, moving to HongKong with her husband, she's
going to have this great life,and now I'm going to be like,
sorry guys, I'm back, so that,however I like lean into it, and
(04:59):
I became more vulnerable.
Well, before you shit talk me,let me actually just tell you
what happened.
And it became this likeconnection point that I had with
people and before Brene Brownwas a thing I realized
vulnerability it's actually likethe antidote of shame.
So, like I really like got intoit.
(05:22):
And then I started travelingmore using my flight attendant
benefits and traveled to 47countries, so many of them solo,
pushed myself out of comfortzone in every single way and
stumbled across financialindependence as well, because
the first thing that I realizedI really had to take care of
(05:44):
myself for after divorce issecurity, because my highest
self said to me you're only herefor security.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Right, yes, yes, you listened.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Yeah, and nobody is here to save me anymore, so I
really have to save myself.
So that was when I leaned intothe concept of financial
independence.
Retire early, they call it FIRE, and I've been investing ever
since, and it's been 10 years,so now I have my investment
portfolio.
So I retired early, quit my20-year flight attendant job and
(06:18):
now moved to Bali.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Okay, and you skipped so many things in that story
that I know about you, so I'mgoing to pull some other things
out of there.
Which is amazing, like retiringat 40 is unbelievable.
Having financial freedom isincredible.
Let's talk about what made youdecide I'm ready to retire, I'm
going to leave the flightattendant world and I'm going to
(06:41):
go find something else that wasactually not a spontaneous
decision, although it seemedlike that, but it was actually a
five-year planning process.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
So during COVID I got laid off temporarily from the
flight attendant job and so, youknow, when you had all that
time, you go inward, you reflectand you look at what's
happening even deeper than whenI was divorced.
So I realized that flightattendant lifestyle is fun but
(07:20):
it wasn't really my highestcalling and I knew that when I
first got hired.
But I got comfortable Like thelifestyle.
It's like I worked only 10 daysa month, I had a pension, my
flight was essentially free Likeit's so cheap that it's free.
So it was kind of hard to let goof that comfort and it was also
(07:42):
the safety net that I couldcome back to after my divorce.
So I felt like, okay, that'sjust something I need to hang on
to.
But then during COVID it reallypushed me further into like
wait, what is my highest selfreally wanting me to do?
But I didn't have a thing rightthat, could you know, provide
(08:03):
me me monetization.
So that's a lot of fear goingthrough my head and my body.
I could feel it like coursingthrough my veins and so it
paralyzed me in so many ways,and then I tested different
ideas business ideas like Istarted something called
unconventional asians.
(08:23):
It's a podcast, uh, featuringreally badass Asians who are not
in the STEM field, like doctor,engineer, lawyers.
I think Asians would understandwhat I'm saying because that's
the only three jobs that we'reallowed to do, um, so things
like that.
That I was like opening myselfup to like coaching, to therapy
(08:45):
and to life beyond justself-development but healing and
the possibility of what I coulddo with my life, and as I
tested, that didn't really workout.
And then I went to moneycoaching because I of my
financial independence.
That didn't really likeencapsulate everything about me
and eventually I now pivoted todivorce.
(09:08):
Wellness coaching for women,because it's really my life's
work, my whole life story.
That encompasses everything,and so that's why I am here.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
That is, um, I really you are so incredible because
you also do the work.
So I have a question.
What's so interesting is as youtalk, the work.
So I have a question.
What's so interesting is, asyou talk right and I'm familiar
with all this right Doing thisinner work, asking the hard
questions, stepping outside yourcomfort zone, but a lot of
people are paralyzed at step one.
They are paralyzed at evenasking the questions and even
(09:41):
like trying to find a path.
So how?
For yourself personally and Iknow that's what you help people
with now but for yourselfpersonally, while you're going
through it, what did youactually do during COVID to try
to uncover this path foryourself?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I have a framework called the Radiant Self
Reclamation and what I realizedbecause I was exposed to all
these healing modalities andthese coaches on my
unconventional Asian platform, Irealized the healing process is
about unraveling what's notyours, yeah.
(10:16):
And this radiantself-reclamation method?
It's that I find that allpeople are born like a diamond.
Imagine a diamond in the middle.
You were born perfect, radiant,resilient.
It has some edges, but it'slike a specific, unique
blueprint to you, because everydiamond is very unique but it's
(10:39):
perfect.
But then we go through lifeputting on this mask, these
layers, to protect that radiantself, because society tells you
you shouldn't be too loud, toomuch, whatever you know, and so
we keep putting on layers, thisfacade, over and over again, so
(11:00):
that we're so far away from ourauthentic radiant self.
And I think that divorce wasthe cracking open of those
layers of now you'rereevaluating everything in your
life, let's question everythingand peel back those layers.
Then you can finally come backto your authentic self.
(11:20):
So the divorce was the initialinitiation of that process and
COVID was the even deeper layer,because it's always like
peeling an onion.
And then I really then came tothat truth of who I am now.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, how did you feel about having a narrow
purpose like a narrow targetaudience?
Speaker 1 (11:45):
oh, that feels so good because I was experimenting
for so long and everythingseems like they go together, but
they don't.
So I was kind of throwingspaghetti at the wall, yeah, and
it felt like, was I doingsomething wrong?
People always tell us we need aniche, and so this is like the
(12:07):
perfect thing that encapsulateseverything about what I do, but
it's like clear enough and aboutwho I'm serving, which is like
the perfect combination.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Right, exactly, yes.
Well, and I will tell everybodyI know you from Brand Builders
Group and which we are both apart of, which is really about
helping build a personal brandand finding your niche and
finding your purpose and whatyou are mission-driven messenger
for and really what that is foryou, and then helping you build
that out into the world.
And so I can see some of thatwork in what you're doing and
(12:42):
just how clear you are about whoyou are to serve.
And one of the other brandbuilder things are we're best
positioned to serve the personthat we once were, and I find
for myself personally, I attractexecutive women who are in the
same space, you know, burned out, overwhelmed at crossroads.
That is my niche, that was me,and so your niche is so you,
(13:04):
because you are serving womenthat you once were and have come
out of it.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Exactly yeah, and we're in our purpose.
We turn that pain into purpose.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You did Correct.
Now let's talk about one otherthing which is unique about you.
You also don't have anychildren, and you talk about
that as a powerful thing, so canyou talk a little bit about
that?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Because what I realize the shame that comes
from society and the brokennessthat we feel inside as women
that maybe we're over 40, wedon't have children often comes
from societal narratives andconditioning.
And because of my whole healingprocess of me questioning every
(13:45):
single thing possible, then Istarted question wait, is this
true?
That if we don't have childrenas women now we're no longer
worthy?
And so I really went down thatpath of wait a second.
I don't think that's true,because statistics actually says
the happiest group are nevermarried.
(14:08):
No children.
Women are the happiest group ofpeople and the second happiest
group of people, who also livethe longest, are married men
Right Interesting.
So that means that marriedwomen oftentimes have to do a
lot of the emotional labor, thehousework, but they're also
(14:30):
working because we have comeinto a society where you know
the feminine empowermentmovement, where we're allowed to
have jobs.
Now we can make money, but themasculine hasn't caught up to
the emotional intelligence thatthey are providing us.
So there is an imbalance of theinvisible work that women have
(14:52):
to put in and not beingacknowledged for it, and so I
think a lot of us are waking upto question is that like a
patriarchal conditioning or isit something that we truly want?
And it's a question that I'veasked myself after divorce why,
why do I want kids beyond whatsociety told me that it's why I
(15:18):
want it, and I realized myanswer was legacy is why I
wanted kids.
But legacy doesn't have to bedone through a child, correct.
It can be done through mywisdom that I'm sharing with
people and I then find that mybusiness is my baby.
Yes, and this is my legacy andI can actually help more people,
(15:41):
not just the one kid or the fewchildren that I'm going to bear
.
Say never when I find the rightpartner.
Maybe I will do that one day,but at this point in my life I
don't see myself in it and thatis okay, and I've completely
made peace and happy with thatdecision.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Which is a lot of work, and I think you can offer
that as value to so many womenwho really struggle with that
and really, at your core, beingspace of being okay with where
they are now and trusting that,however it's meant to be in the
future is how it is meant to be.
All right, let's talk aboutBali.
(16:34):
Okay, what?
So?
I've been following you onInstagram and your whole like
Bali experience, which is, oh myGod, amazing.
So how did you decide Bali iswhere you're going next?
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Mm.
So as a flight attendant I'vetraveled a lot and before COVID
I actually slow traveled likedigital nomads.
Before digital nomads was evena thing.
I already knew of thatlifestyle.
With even a thing I alreadyknew of that lifestyle and a lot
(17:08):
of the financially independentpeople that I know are already
living that lifestyle.
So I've tried Bali, I've triedThailand, I've tried Vietnam,
all these popular spots and Iknow Bali it's the eat, pray,
love destination.
Yes, it is Uh-huh, yeah, and Icome to to Bali, not actually as
the reason most people thinknot to be in paradise, which it
(17:31):
is, but it's actually to focuson my business.
Yes, because most people, mostwomen who go through heartbreak,
tends to love Bali for thehealing energy and for the
community, and so this isactually the first reason why
I'm in Bali.
But I talk about alignment alot and it is very aligned to me
(17:52):
, like down to how I like todress, like Bali island life.
That's actually how I like todress and how I like to express
and the food that they have here.
It's what I like to eat and thecost of living is so affordable
that it just like everythingjust works perfectly and there's
(18:12):
such a big digital nomadentrepreneur community here that
I can learn from each other andjust oh, it's so amazing.
I go to meet up groups likethree times a week, just
learning from so many otherpeople, and so this is like the
perfect place for me to reallyfocus on my business and thrive
and not have to worry too muchabout finances.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yes, you post things and you'll be like here's my
meal for five US dollars and I'mlike, oh my goodness, that's
insane.
So, just for people who mightnot know, how would you define a
digital nomad?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
A digital nomad to me is someone who can work
remotely, so they work on thelaptop and they're not confined
to a location.
So basically, locationindependent Right.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Okay, and you went to Bali with like a suitcase of
stuff and that was it, a bigsuitcase, a check-in suitcase
and a backpack.
Amazing.
And how long.
When you left, how long wereyou intending to stay?
Like, what was your plan?
Oh, like forever.
So what did you do witheverything else you own?
(19:26):
You're like I don't ownanything else, I only because I
remember you were posting oninstagram about the process of
having to like narrow it down towhat you were going to bring.
Yeah, so what did you do withall the other?
And I just asked this becausewe're often so attached myself,
personally, I definitely am toour personal belongings and that
those are part of us and partof your journey.
(19:47):
Is that you don't have all ofthat with you while you're doing
this journey and building thisbusiness?
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah, that's just such a great question because
the thing is I have done thisseveral times of moving places
and purging things.
Part of my unique story withfinances is that I used to own
real estate and the financialindependent space actually talks
about investing.
So I made the really crazychoice of selling my condo to
(20:17):
rent a room and invest theequity into socks, and that
opens up a lot of flexibility.
Now to be able to live in aroom, that means you have to let
go a lot of stuff.
Yes, but it was a veryconscious choice because I
noticed myself, even when I ownthe condo, I literally only stay
(20:40):
in the room Like I actuallydon't use the living space, and
so I'm like wait, if I don'teven use that space, why am I
paying for it?
So it's not really for me asacrifice.
The rest of the time I'm outtraveling anyways, and so now
I've built this life where I'mdoing the same thing, and so
when you don't have that muchspace, you naturally pare down
(21:05):
your belongings, but then thisdigital nomad lifestyle that I'm
embracing really forced me togo even further down into like a
suitcase, because the thing iswith traveling is that you are
the person who carries yourstuff.
Yes, and it's so uncomfortableevery time if you do have to and
(21:29):
I'm like a small girl for me tolike carry that many things,
yes, and so for me it's more mysanity that I'm saving, that I
can always buy little things onthe road that I would need, that
I can dispose of later, but Ionly keep the things that truly
like, maybe have meaning, andthey're surprisingly a stuffed
(21:52):
animal that I'm bringing thatare taking up so much space.
But to me it's like a memory.
But everything else to me canbe disposed.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
Can go Right.
And you did bring your pillow,I thought that was really cute.
You brought.
You're like, I'm going to bringmy pillow and you carried your
pillow on the plane.
I remember you being gratefulthat you had your pillow, so in
your journey in Bali.
So where have you landed now?
In terms of how long are yougoing to stay in the place that
you are renting right now?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, I'm in this current place for four months,
four more months, because I havethe visa for Bali for six
months.
Okay, got it.
This is more tax things, butalso weather.
So I came from Raincouver, wecall it, and so I really don't
(22:39):
want to repeat that againwhenever possible, and so I'm
escaping the rainy season fromBali.
So I'm going to leave inNovember to go to Thailand, when
it's perfect weather in ChiangMai also a digital nomad haven
and then go to Vietnam, which isthe perfect timing during
February and April.
So this is like optimizingtaxes and weather, basically.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Okay, all good things , all good things.
So in your journey to gettingto living in the place that
you're living in now, you didsome exploring and stayed in
different places to get a lay ofthe land.
What was the hardest aboutgoing through that process?
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Great question Lifestyle design really knowing
what you want, want whatelements make you happy as a
person and everyone is sodifferent.
Yes, I don't care too muchabout space, like how much space
I need, but I need convenience,so I prioritize that over the
(23:41):
amount of space that I have.
So I noticed that about myself.
I like water a lot, yeah, beingcloser by the beach, and so I
prioritize that too.
So I don't know if you knowabout Bali, the different
pockets of it.
I'm in the beach side, thebeachy towns called.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Chenggu.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
And then there's also Ubud, which is where Iprela was
built, but it's all like lushgreens and forests and there's
no beach, and that's why I'm notthere, because I know that I
like the beach.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
You want the beach.
Right, you post about the beach.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
The beach looks amazing, yeah, amazing just
being aware of, like, what yourvalues are, how you, what lights
you up, I think, with lifestyledesign is how I come to this
place, and costs as well,because I was a money coach and
so I like try to optimizeeverything possible right, right
(24:34):
, you're living.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
You are living off a budget.
Let's, yeah right, like moneyis not infinite, you are living
off a budget, but you're doingan amazing job of doing it.
So let's talk about creatingcontent.
And then we're going to diginto your formula and everything
that you do in coaching.
But let's talk about content.
What may you have in yourdescription of who you are as a
content creator?
You create a lot of content onInstagram.
You, I think, create a lot ofvaluable content, yet have come
(24:59):
across one of the challengesthat people have on social media
of getting the wrong type offollowers, who are not positive,
are not welcoming, are notsending out positive notes about
what you're posting.
So first let's talk about howdid you decide you wanted to
create content and put yourselfout onto social media creating
this content?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I think there needs to be a role model, be a role
model especially in this type oftaboo topics that people don't
really talk about, especiallyfor Asians I think that is quite
(25:39):
rare.
So there's a lot of shame thatcomes in to the whole topic of
divorce.
And I've done my walk of shamefor many years and I'm no shame
anymore so not to say I'mcompletely no shame, but I've
processed a lot of it and so Ifeel the it would be such an
inspiration for others for me tobe the guinea pig, to put
(25:59):
myself out there, so then theycan see that, hey, I can be the
permission for you to have yourbest life after divorce.
It's not the end of the world,really.
And yeah, and I don't know ifyou know about human design, yes
, and human design, I'm a 3-5profile, okay, so it means it's
the life experimenter, so it isthe guinea pig that I'm going to
(26:23):
go into the hole, let me findwhat's inside the hole and I'll
come out and like so you don'trepeat the same mistake.
So that's kind of what I'm likeliterally wired to do and I'm
like not afraid to do it andit's fun for me.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yes, yes, well, I remember when I first started
following you and you werestarting to create content, it
was like you created it allhorizontally and I'm like, but
that doesn't really work onreels.
And then you like figured itout and you were like, okay,
wait, let me.
And you were just so honest,though, about like I'm kind of
playing, I'm just sharing mylife, I'm trying to figure out
what people want to know, whatpeople want to see.
You were really honest about it.
(26:57):
How do you deal with the peoplethat respond negatively?
How do you keep that frompenetrating your energy?
Because it's hard not to takeit personally.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
That was an entire process.
It's the inner work that we'vebeen doing that is helping me
navigate that, not to say that Istill don't get bothered by it.
I think I still have like maybe5% left, but at the beginning
it was very, very triggering toall the wounding that I needed
(27:27):
to see.
And one good thing about likethe whole in-lure work is that I
think triggers areopportunities for healing, yes,
and so if I get bothered bythose comments, that is that
okay, perfect opportunity.
Let me see what, what I do.
I need to really heal, and sothe more that comes, it almost
(27:49):
becomes like um, like a leveragethat I can either use it as
content to empower more women orI just see them as projections
of what society is still dealingwith and why my work is even
more important than ever.
So then these women feel likewow, okay, like she gets
(28:11):
projected on a lot.
Well, three, five projector alsocan project it on a lot and so
just like making peace with okay, like being in the limelight,
getting trolls is actually agood sign, because people
actually care enough for astranger to use their energy to
(28:33):
write something on your postactually means you made it right
so it's like, oh so when thefirst day that I ever got trolls
, I'm like, oh my god, I made it.
That is such a made it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
That is such a good reframe.
That is such a good reframe itreally is, because it's hard
when people don't see the valuein your message and your message
is so personal.
It's hard to not take thatpersonally as a personal insult
to you, but I love the reframeof it and I also like how you
reframed it as they areprojecting, which is also so
(29:06):
important when we talk aboutgrowth, work like someone else
is projecting themselves ontoyou.
That doesn't mean it's actuallyeven about you, it's actually
about them.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I mean, of course, there is accountability as well,
and so it's like which part ofit is projection from their side
and which part is it it'striggers on my side and being
able to even discern that waspropelling my growth actually.
So these tools were helping mein a way, for my healing.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
That's so great, so wonderful, all right.
So let's talk about yourbusiness, because you are in
Bali and to some people, if theyonly follow you every once in a
while, it looks like you knowmassages, incredible food,
walking on the beach.
But yet I know you actuallywork like eight hours a day.
You actually are working.
You go to a workspace and work.
(29:57):
So what are you working on?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
There is a lot of pieces to building a business,
as we know.
But on the outside, people see,oh, you're making content.
How hard can that be?
But imagine you're making likea mini movie where you're the
director, you're the actress,you're the script writer, you're
the videographer, you're theeditor just that, just that's
(30:23):
just content.
A videographer, you're theeditor, just that, just that's
just content.
Right, and then you have tothink of ideas.
So that's like you doing that.
It's already a full-time job andyou're managing the people's
comments.
And then there's the backend oflike, okay, you're going to
build your message.
Uh, what kind of program areyou developing?
What kind of thought leadershipthat is original, that is yours
(30:44):
, what kind of framework?
And so those are the thingsthat I was working on.
So then I can deliver quick winsfor my clients that create
transformation, because I'm notlike.
I'm really about authenticityand integrity, and so I've
walked the walk.
But I also need to create toolsfor my clients to be able to
(31:05):
get results.
And so testing on myself andmaking sure to simplify all the
things that I've been doing inthe past in a way that is simple
to understand, and so all theseinner workings is happening in
the background that I'm workingaway, which it's not really seen
(31:26):
, you know, it's just really inthe background work Right and it
takes a lot of time to createthat content, to create a
framework, to create whateverthat content is that you're
going to give to your clientsthe steps, the process
explaining it though, thequestions, the probing, the work
it's.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
It's a lot to build that.
I don't know that peopleappreciate that quite enough.
So how do your coaching clientsfind you?
Speaker 1 (31:51):
A lot of them come from Instagram.
They do, yeah.
So right now I'm also doingnetworking in Bali as well as
another way to get the words outthere, so it can be a word of
mouth, and being on podcasts andjust basically exposing myself
as in many ways as possible.
(32:12):
So that is how I am getting myexposure right now.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Do you ever have days where you have a little
imposter syndrome, like isanyone going to care?
Is this really a value?
Does anyone really want to buymy services, work with me, all
the things?
Does that ever happen Likeevery day?
Okay, good, thank you.
I'm glad to know you're humanAll right Every single day.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Welcome to being an entrepreneur, everybody.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
This is real life, exactly so what do you do?
What specifically do you do todeal with that?
Because fear and impostersyndrome is very, very real for
entrepreneurs, especially whenyou are trying to pave a way
that feels very personal andthat is new and that doesn't
exist.
What do you do to deal withthat?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I think I needed to have evidence.
Sometimes I don't trust likethe oh, believe in yourself, and
all of that stuff.
I need like tangible evidenceto believe it.
And so right now, when I'mtalking to my clients, talking
with potential clients, I seethat like something is clicking
within them and it's like okay,that is working or what is not
resonating.
And just tweaking that as thethree, five and so even that
(33:26):
process to me is actually reallyfun and realizing how much I
actually know when I talk topeople, because sometimes you're
completely blinded by your owngifts because you kind of take
it for granted, of course, butwhen you reflect that back out
and you're like, oh, actuallymaybe I've done something in my
(33:47):
life and so that's helping mereally affirm.
And the second thing is Itaught I talked to Chad I call
him Chad, chad GBT, and I reallylike even the trolls and stuff
like that.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
It's like, oh, I'm having a lot of self-doubt.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
I call him Chad, chad GBT, and I really like even the
trolls and stuff like that.
It's like, oh, I'm having a lotof self-doubt, Like I'm typing
all the things Like, why am Ihaving all these thoughts and
the validation that comes back,but also not just you know, all
acknowledgement, but what arethe blind spots that I needed to
see so that I can become better?
And just knowing that, like,any new skill is not supposed to
(34:27):
be perfect and your client onlyneeds you to be a few steps
ahead, not all the way, and infact, if you're too perfect,
you're not relatable.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yes, and and that's a mentor.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, it's about how can you care enough for them to
lift them up?
Just right, a few steps up.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Right, and you don't have to have it all figured out
either in order to be able tomake that step.
And we never will Right, whichis such an important point,
because so many people don'tstep into their purpose and
don't step into their callingbecause they don't.
They feel like they don't haveit all figured out, and you've
mentioned that a couple of times.
Like you knew, being a flightattendant, wasn't it?
(35:09):
But you weren't sure what was.
And that's a very common space.
And even entrepreneurs, as weare building our business, we
don't always know where it'sgoing and representing to people
and showing them that that'sactually okay.
This is a journey.
Everything in life is a journey.
There is no end.
The end is when you die, butit's all a journey, and so you
(35:29):
make such an important point,and I've had other coaches and
entrepreneurs come on and say,as a coach, you just have to be
a few steps ahead of wheresomeone is, because you already
know more, have done more,experienced more and have value
to add to them, which isbeautiful.
So let's talk for a minuteabout wellness within your life,
because you are in Bali and tome, I'm like Bali massage,
(35:54):
facials, incredible food outside, sun, exercise, walk beach, so
meditate to me feels very likehome.
Everyone is meditating,everyone is tapping in Nord,
everyone is living this veryinner wellness lifestyle.
Is it really like that?
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Yes, and it's so motivating when everyone is
doing that.
Yeah, is it and everyone has abusiness.
So it's okay, like everyone,because I think, as
entrepreneurs, there's thisdrive to be always improving in
a way, and so we're motivated,we're growth mindset, and so we
(36:39):
know that you're how you prepareyour vessel yes, how, and the
energy that you give off willtranslate to the outcomes of
your business.
So inner wellness translates toouter wellness, right, and so
it has to be that balance.
And so being in Bali which issomething very interesting I
never thought of, but obvious inhindsight is there is this
(37:01):
spiritual energy about Bali thatmakes you confront a lot about
yourself.
Interesting.
It's a bit feminine in natureand it's been said multiple
times by other cultures, byother healers that have moved
from a different country to Bali.
It attracts a certain type ofpeople.
(37:22):
So you're like you either itfeels so uncomfortable that you
will leave Bali or you face ithead on, and so everyone who is
here then it's gravitatingtowards that, like higher
version of ourselves that we'reworking towards Doing the work.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Is that the one thing that surprised you the most, or
are there other things thathave surprised you?
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I don't think it was surprising because I've been
here before, but it just morelike how crowded it is now since
the pandemic because there'smore remote work, there's more
digital nomads around the worldand so bali has kind of become
that place for a lot of us.
Also, the cost of living andinflation is getting out of
(38:10):
control in like first worldcountries and so a lot of people
are kind of doing the four-hourworkweek concept like from tim
ferris, so they call it geoarbitrage, meaning making money
from the us like usd right, likegreat currency, but then like
spending indonesian rupee out,just like yes so that's like
(38:34):
just that alone you're getting agreat lifestyle for nothing,
but you're still making a lot,and so that's how you save money
, that's how you can invest thedifference and stuff like that,
and so I think everyone whocomes here like understand that.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yes, and that is so powerful.
It's like that.
I went to Portugal recently andthe cost of living there is so
inexpensive compared to theUnited States.
But everyone we spoke to waslike but if you're making money
here, it's not, it's actuallyvery expensive.
So the key is you need to bemaking US type of money, doing
something remote, and then havethat be what's supporting your
(39:09):
lifestyle in a country likePortugal or Bali or all these
places where it's less expensive.
That's the financial key to it.
Do you want to talk at allabout your eight step process,
your pillar process?
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah for sure.
Yeah, it's really my owntransformational process that
I've gone through in the past 10years in the most condensed,
simple way possible.
So the first two steps, it'sreally inner wellness, right,
it's about peeling that, thoseonion layers that you've been
(39:45):
masking towards your radiantself.
So it's first rewriting thestory mindset of going from
being a victim of divorce to avictor.
Yes, and how do you catchyourself when you're going back
into that victimhood?
(40:06):
And we all do in our own way,right, like the thoughts in our
mind.
And I have a process, a toolcalled the peace tool, that
actually gets you back into,like wait, which thoughts do I
want to choose right now?
Yes, so that's a first pillar.
And then emotional healing, ofcourse.
(40:27):
But emotional healing wasinteresting is that most people
think they're feeling, butthey're actually thinking what
they're feeling?
Ah, yeah, big difference, bigdifference.
But yes, you know the book, theBody Keeps the Score.
But yes, you know the book, thebody keeps the score.
Emotions and trauma is storedin the body, not the mind.
So a lot of people, their firststep, which is great, it's
(40:49):
therapy, but a lot of timesthat's like mind stuff, it's the
stories, right.
So the second step is actuallythe somatic stuff, the nervous
system stuff, and so emotionalhealing because I'm certified in
embodiment is how I teach myclients to process the emotions
out of the body as it comes, sothen it can be released.
(41:11):
Yes, so that's the unravelingpart of my program, yeah, and
then the third part is nowfinding that radiant self,
reclaiming your, your identityLike who?
are you after the marriage?
Who do you want to be?
That highest self right.
And then now you have thefoundation, because you have
kind of removed the traumathat's not yours, and then you
(41:35):
know who you are and then youcan glow up in all the areas of
your life, like money, like yourlifestyle design, like your
body, your health, findingfriends after divorce, because
we tend to lose a lot of people,um, and also dating again if
you want to.
And how do you date fromwholeness not desperation.
(41:57):
Yes, you'll attract somethingvery different yeah, and so this
process is in order.
So then you're doing thingslike on a foundational level,
like my mistake was datingpretty quickly after divorce.
Yes, because I needed to feelvalidated, like, oh, I'll be
worthy again if I someone elselike likes me, someone wants me
(42:19):
yeah.
But, like now, I realize that'sstep eight, not step one, and so
I hope to help my clients, likenot to repeat the same mistakes
that I did, to go through thepain again, like after divorce,
the date, and then like, getlike abandoned or whatever
You're reliving it.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
You're hurting yourself again.
Right, it's just more pain ontop of the pain you have from
before.
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
So how do we spare you from the pain.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yes, now do some people come to you even though
they are the ones who havechosen the divorce.
So divorce has been theirchoice, but yet they still have
to deal with a lot of the sameprocess emotion unraveling inner
work 100%.
And I think, a lot of the sameprocess emotion unraveling inner
work 100%.
Speaker 1 (43:03):
And I think a lot of the ones that chose to get
divorced it's like a lot of themcome from maybe having a
narcissistic ex-husband, and sothey love their ex-husbands.
It's just that this is sounhealthy that they have to
leave.
Yes, and that pain is still thesame.
(43:24):
It's because you love thatperson so much, but you also
love them and love yourselfenough to be like, okay, I can't
do this, but you're so used tobeing with that person and you
built a whole life with them.
So you still have to rebuild.
Yes, right, you still have togrieve, you still have to let go
of all those layers.
So it's a similar process.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yes, I could see that .
All right, what's on yourbucket list?
What else do you want to do?
Obviously, you have travelplans, but what else?
Speaker 1 (43:57):
What else do you want to do?
Of course I'm building mybusiness want to do.
Of course I'm building mybusiness.
But personally, something justcame up to me is I saw there is
underwater modeling, what's that?
So I always as a kid wanted tobe a mermaid.
Okay, yeah, because I loveswimming.
(44:18):
I was a competitive swimmer, Idid open water swimming, but
then I want to combine it withlike photography, like that's
like really beautiful, but thenI cannot hold my breath for a
very long time underwater, eventhough I was a very good swimmer
.
I've been like breathe prettyoften.
So it would be so cool, if Ican like, because I saw someone.
(44:40):
Someone in Bali actually has acourse that help you post
underwater and havevideographers and photographers
to actually create those photosfor you.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
And so that's so cool , it's on my bucket list.
I love that.
That's different.
Yeah, that is stretchingyourself tapping into your child
freedom.
That's incredible.
What a fun thing.
All right, so is there anythingthat I did not ask you that you
want to be able to share aboutyour journey or your business or
how you're trying to helppeople?
(45:13):
No I think you've coveredeverything Good, but then that's
good, all right.
Before we close, I always askeveryone to recommend a book.
I'm a true believer.
Books change lives, a book thathas impacted them either
personally or professionally.
So what book or book somepeople can't narrow it down to
one.
Would you like to recommend tothe listeners that they should
read?
Speaker 1 (45:32):
This book is so perfect because it encapsulates
everything that we talked about.
It's called Many Lives, manyMasters, by Dr Brian Weiss.
Yeah, because nobody talksabout this book.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I've never heard of it, and that's rare.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
This book is interesting.
It's a true story of apsychiatrist doing past life
regressions on a young patient.
Ooh, so, and the things thatshe's been saying?
She would go through differentlifetimes and describe even the
death process in between, yes,but most importantly, what she
(46:08):
learned from each lifetime.
And she would paint so manydetails to like that historical
time as well, yes, and so if youbelieve in incarnation, you
could say like this is prettyreal, because she was able to
actually like, cite the detailsof history.
As a young girl, like thatshouldn't happen.
(46:28):
But anyways, the whole moral ofthe story that I got from it was
that each lifetime that you'rehere for is to learn lessons for
your soul to evolve and to grow.
So that means that everystruggle is the gift for your
soul to ascend.
(46:49):
And so then now and I read thisbook, like in my late teens,
like 18, 19, pretty young andI've gone through a lot of other
trauma child trauma in my past,where my parents got divorced,
my dad always committed suicide,all the things Right and so
I've turned basically everystruggle into like an
(47:11):
empowerment process of okay, youknow what my soul wanted?
This, this is how I grow, andso I think that's why it has
kept me going through all theseyears, whenever something hard
happens and I just like keepturning that pain into purpose,
keep turning it into empowerment, and I think this is the whole
purpose of my life, so then Ican actually help other women do
(47:33):
the same.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Beautifully said.
Oh, that is great, but I'mgoing to have to check that book
out.
I love when someone recommendsa book I haven't heard of before
and that's very rare, so I amout.
I love when someone recommendsa book I haven't heard of before
and that's very rare, so I amexcited.
I will check that book out,clover.
Thank you so much.
It is nighttime for you in Bali.
It's morning for us in theStates, so I thank you for the
time.
You are so inspiring.
You are so fun to follow onInstagram.
(47:56):
We will make sure we tageverything in the show notes so
that people can reach out to youand if you are a woman who is
coming off divorce, thinkingabout divorce in any of that
framework, absolutely reach outto Clover because she can really
help you.
So I thank you.
You are a beautiful soul.
Thank you for the time.
Enjoy Bali.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
Thank you so much for having me, and actually it's
okay for me to plug.
I might have a retreat comingup next year in Bali and so if
anybody would love that idea, DMme, give me your email, I can
put you on the mailing list andI can give you all the
information.
So if that's something that youwant to do to have the divorce
(48:36):
glow up after divorce, that's aninvitation for you.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
That is fantastic, and I will make sure we include
that in the show notes as well,because you can plug away.
A retreat with you would be areally special experience.
So thank you for that.
I hope you have a beautiful dayand I'm excited for us to stay
connected.
Thank you for being a guest.
Speaker 1 (48:53):
Thank you so much, Jean.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Thank you for joining us for another episode of the
House of Jermar podcast, wherewellness starts within.
We appreciate you being a partof our community and hope you
felt inspired and motivated byour guest.
If you enjoyed this episode,please write us a review and
share it with friends.
Building our reach on YouTubeand Apple podcasts will help us
(49:17):
get closer to our mission toempower 1 million women to live
all in.
You can also follow us onInstagram at House of Jermar and
sign up to be a part of ourmonthly inspiration newsletter
through our website,houseofjermarcom.
If you or someone you knowwould be a good guest on the
show, please reach out to us atpodcast at houseofjermarcom.
(49:39):
This has been a House of Jermarproduction with your host, Jean
Collins.
Thank you for joining our house.
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