September 11, 2025 • 52 mins
In honor of September being National Recovery Month, we are exploring what exactly a recovery coach is, and why you might want one, even if you don't identify as having an addiction. In this illuminating conversation, Stephanie Hazard—a recovery coach with 25 years of personal sobriety—redefines our understanding of recovery support beyond traditional treatment models.
"A recovery coach is someone who has lived experience plus professional training, to support an individual who is either curious or struggling with substances," explains Stephanie. Whether you're questioning your relationship with alcohol, exploring sobriety, or maintaining long-term recovery, coaches serve as bridges to help you navigate from where you are to where you want to be. Unlike therapists or sponsors, recovery coaches work shoulder-to-shoulder with clients, providing structured support while developing personalized wellness strategies.
The conversation delves into fascinating territory around changing societal attitudes toward alcohol. From the evolution of non-alcoholic beverage descriptions (from "non-alcoholic" to "spirit-free") to the World Health Organization's statement that no amount of alcohol is safe, we're witnessing a profound shift in how people approach substances. More individuals—particularly those in their 50s and 60s—are choosing alcohol-free lifestyles not because they identify as having problems, but for overall health and longevity.
Perhaps most compelling is Stephanie's methodology for helping clients build both internal and external "recovery capital." Through practical tools like the Recovery Capital Scale, coaches help identify areas for growth while developing alternative coping mechanisms and celebration rituals. The goal isn't just symptom management but creating sustainable wellness across all life dimensions. As Stephanie poignantly shares, "My job as a coach is to put myself out of the job" by empowering clients with the skills and confidence to navigate life's challenges independently.
Ready to explore your relationship with substances or enhance your wellness journey? This episode offers transformative insights whether you're in recovery, sober-curious, or simply interested in optimizing your health. Listen now and discover how recovery coaching might be the missing piece in your wellness puzzle.
Stephanie's book recommendation: "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz.
More about Stephanie:
Stephanie Hazard is a sought-after recovery coach who works with individuals and families across the country. In recovery for twenty-five years, her experiential knowledge, expertise, and professional training empower her to help others achieve and sustain recovery and wellness. Stephanie launched her private coaching practice, A Path Toward Recovery in 2021, and co-founded Capstone Wellness Coaching which offers support services to young adults and adolescents. Her book about recovery coaching will be released next year and distributed by Simon and Schuster.
https://www.pathtowardrecovery.com
https://www.instagram.com/a_path_toward_recovery_/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
A recovery coach is someone who has lived experience
plus professional training, tosupport an individual who is
either curious or strugglingwith substances.
Curious about theirrelationship, maybe wanting to
make a change in theirrelationship.
(00:21):
Maybe, you know, we've heardsober curious.
We've heard about people whoare choosing to be alcohol free.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
But the coach acts as the bridge to help a person get
from where they are to wherethey want to be, which I love
how you define that for me,because I had no idea I'd never
even heard of a recovery coach.
You reached out.
I'm like what is a recoverycoach?
I don't really understand.
Welcome to the House of Germarpodcast, where wellness starts
(00:53):
within.
The House of Germar is alifestyle brand, empowering
women to live all in throughinterior design and personal
wellness.
We are a destination for womenready to reimagine what is
possible in their homes andlives and then create it.
We are honored to have you joinus on our mission to empower 1
(01:13):
million women to live all in.
I am your host, jean Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
Welcome to the House of Germarpodcast, where wellness starts
within.
I'm your host, jean Collins,and today's guest.
We are going to talk aboutrecovery.
September is National RecoveryMonth, so we are going to talk
(01:35):
about recovery and I met ourguest, stephanie Hazard.
She lives in my town.
We met for coffee and Ipersonally will say I didn't
even really understand what arecovery coach was and what she
did, and I was so fascinatedwhen I got to meet her about
what she does, how she helpspeople.
Her own personal story is soinspiring and she has a mission
(01:59):
to really help people not onlyfind recovery, maintain recovery
, but also holistic wellness,and I love that.
So, stephanie, welcome to theshow.
Thank you, oh, it's so good tohave you.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yes, I love that.
We're neighbors and we get todo this.
This is fantastic here.
This is right in our ownhometown of New Canaan.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
It's great.
It's great, but yet we alsohave the privilege of touching
people all over the world, whichis a really special gift and
hopefully I got that right.
September is National RecoveryMonth.
Did I say that correctly?
Yes, that's exactly right, yes,All right, so let's start off
with a little bit about yourstory and your journey, about
(02:45):
how you got to where you are,because we also have connections
as single moms.
There's a lot that we have incommon, so if you wouldn't mind
sharing with people what yourjourney was to get to become the
professional that you are inthe recovery space.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
That's.
Yes, it's been a long journey,but it's been the most
worthwhile and the mostwonderful experience that I can
say, Next to actually having myson, the actual birth of my
child, my experience, myrecovery journey truly has been
(03:22):
the biggest gift.
So I got sober, although Ididn't even call it sobriety.
I was only willing to take abreak from drinking alcohol 25
years ago.
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Congratulations.
Let's just stop for one second.
Congratulations, that is huge.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Congratulations.
That is huge Thank you.
And it ties into being a singlemom because I got sober when
Jack, my son, was eight and he'snow 34.
So actually, when I think aboutmy sobriety in those terms, it
sounds like a lot of time.
So I would also say that,because I was a single mom, I
(04:06):
think that sort of raised myawareness.
I had another person who wasdepending upon me and I think we
talk about you may have heardthe term like you have to hit
bottom, or did the person have ahigh bottom or low bottom?
I think that raised the bottomfor me because there were
(04:29):
certain things that I had to doas a single mom that I was
noticing I was having a hardtime doing and that really got
my attention.
Specifically, I could wake upin the morning with a brutal
hangover, still get Jack on thebus, but then, like, literally
crawl my way back into bed andcall in to work sick.
(04:52):
That was a sign that my lifewas becoming unmanageable, right
, and then there were many othersigns.
As I say, I started moving thegoalposts on what was acceptable
and what was unacceptable.
So I got to a place where Iactually felt sort of frightened
(05:14):
.
I was frightened about what Iwas doing.
I was frightened that I hadcravings for alcohol.
I mean, I began.
I'm writing a book aboutrecovery and recovery coaching
and I talk about the undertowthe undertow of this disease.
So I didn't know if I was analcoholic or not, but I can tell
(05:36):
you I was scared that I wasbecoming one.
Alcoholism runs on both sides ofmy family.
My grandmother died ofalcoholism and my grandfather on
my dad's side had severephysical symptoms from alcohol
consumption, as did my ownfather.
(05:56):
In any event, just because it'sin the genes, does that mean
I'm going to become an alcoholic?
No, it's in the genes.
Does that mean I'm going tobecome an alcoholic?
No, but am I maybe predisposed?
Yes, so I had the willingnessto take a break and so the
(06:17):
journey began with that and Ihad a wonderful therapist who
also said to me hey, listen, I'mhappy to meet with you, but the
auntie is no drinking ordrugging.
And I was like very offended bythat.
Yeah, I was what me?
I live in a cute little housein Greenwich, connecticut.
I go to book club, I playedtennis, I'm volunteer, I'm a
(06:39):
good girl, I don't drink or drugand, truth be told, there was a
lot of drinking, a lot ofdrinking than I was doing alone
as well, not in public.
So in any event, she encouragedme to check out some 12-step
meetings.
I had heard of AlcoholicsAnonymous, I had heard of
(07:01):
Al-Anon, and I have to say thatwhen I started going to 12-step
meetings and I began to hearsort of meet myself through
other people and I began to hearmy story from out of the words,
out of the mouths of completestrangers I mean, I'm
identifying with people and whatthey're doing.
(07:23):
Long story short, I decided tostay and you know, I did what I
was asked to do.
I'm a little bit of a peoplepleaser, certainly in recovery
from people pleasing, but itserved me in a good way because
(07:43):
I wanted to, you know, to do thenext right thing, get a sponsor
, follow her guidance, and Iwanted gold stars.
I think my self-esteem was solow at the time that I came in,
but anyway, that was how thebreak turned into a longer break
(08:05):
and a longer break and, like Isaid, now it's been 25 years
that is amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
When in that journey did you decide I want to leave
my corporate America job andmove into actually recovery as a
job?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
So thank you for the question.
I started volunteering forSilver Hill Hospital and I
served on the board of anothernonprofit that's based in
Connecticut that helps peoplewith substance use disorders
it's called Liberation Programs.
So I started working orvolunteering helping other
people outside of my advertisingand marketing biz dev jobs and
(08:54):
I don't know exactly when it was, but that the idea of booking a
new client and receiving acommission and doing it it just
began to ring very hollow.
At the end of the day, workingon behalf of a company selling
(09:15):
something to somebody else, justlost its appeal.
I was, I just I did not feelfulfilled.
But I did feel very fulfilledwhen I was volunteering and
helping other people andactually feeling as the CEO of
that company has a men's house,it's sober living, and I
(09:54):
actually had a meeting with himand I was talking about the idea
of potentially opening up awomen's house and I was kind of
giving him a hard time likeyou've got the guy thing all
figured out.
But what about you know, hello,what are you doing for you know
, women?
And he was great.
He said hey, you know, this issomething in our strategic plan,
(10:17):
but we're not quite there yetto have a sober residence for
women.
So he said but staff, I'd lovefor your involvement and to
include you, but in the meantimeI think you would make a great
coach.
Truly, he planted the seed andhe said there's a training.
It's totally different from12-step work.
(10:39):
And I took the bait and I was alittle skeptical because I had
never heard of the term coaching.
I thought it sounded sort oflike paid sponsorship.
And what I just want to say,jean, is, back then, seven years
ago, almost eight years ago, Ihad never heard of the term
(11:03):
recovery coach.
Years ago I had never heard ofthe term recovery coach.
And when I went for thetraining and I did the training
through the ConnecticutCommunity for Addiction Recovery
, it opened up my eyes to thisnon-clinical support role.
And that is what a recoverycoach is.
A recovery coach is someone whohas lived experience plus
(11:29):
professional training to supportan individual who is either
curious or struggling withsubstances, curious about their
relationship, maybe wanting tomake a change in their
relationship, maybe, you know,we've heard sober curious, we've
heard about people who arechoosing to be alcohol free.
(11:50):
But the coach acts as thebridge to help a person get from
where they are to where theywant to be.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Which I love how you define that for me, because I
had no idea.
I'd never even heard of arecovery coach.
You reached out.
I'm never even heard of arecovery coach, you reached out.
I'm like what is a recoverycoach?
I don't really understand.
Can you explain the role thatyou play as it relates to
connecting the dots with some ofthe others?
So if someone is in AA, forexample, or someone is in Silver
(12:21):
Hill, which is a hospital nearus that helps with this, where
do you come in in connecting thedots between the other programs
that people are involved in andthe ways that you help people?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Well, the coach can enter the picture at any point
on the continuum of care.
That's what we'll refer to itas.
So there could be someone whois at Silver Hill or another
treatment center and they'regetting ready to discharge home.
The discharge planner, which is, or the therapist that they are
(12:53):
working with the individual intreatment, might suggest adding
a recovery coach to thedischarge treatment plan.
So I might get a call which Ioften do from Silver Hill and
I'm asked to come over and meetwith the client, meet with the
therapist and discuss the roleof coach so that when that
(13:15):
person discharges home andthey're about to re-engage with
their life, their family, maybeeven their job.
I am part of the football team,right, I'm on the team, right,
and so we I like to refer tothat as the care team, right?
So it's an integrated care teamand I'm working maybe with that
(13:39):
person's, as I said, therapistperson's, as I said, therapist.
If they start going to 12-stepmeetings, I might have a
conversation with the sponsor.
That's not mandatory, none ofit's mandatory, but I'm there as
a support.
Beam is that individual's allyand advocate, and I would say a
(14:02):
best practice is when we're allsinging from the same song sheet
.
But maybe there's somebody whohasn't gone to treatment, right,
and so how does that personfind a coach?
Their physician might recommenda coach, their therapist might
recommend a coach.
The coaches typically.
You know, we're meeting withindividuals at least twice a
(14:26):
week and having daily check-ins.
Yeah, that's a lot.
So we are in this person's lifelike we are shoulder to
shoulder with them.
So a lot of folks I mean, ifyou were to say walk into
Recovery Community Center, ifyou were to say walk into
Recovery Community Center, sayyou're up in Bridgeport or
Hartford and you don't have alot of resources recovery
(14:57):
coaches are actually there onthe premises of recovery
community organizations, so youcan find a coach there.
But coaches are in prisons orin emergency rooms.
You can find them, but theytypically, like I said, they can
come into the equation at anypoint in time.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Right.
How long do you typically workwith your clients?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So I'm certified for substance use disorder and also
eating disorders.
So the length of engagement forsubstance use disorder and what
does that even mean?
Somebody who is struggling witha substance so it could be
alcohol, it could be arecreational drug, it could be a
prescription medication butit's at least three to six
(15:40):
months.
Yeah, I would think so, butit's at least three to six
months.
Yeah, I would think so.
And then, as a certified eatingdisorder coach, that engagement
is typically longer.
That's at least six months to ayear.
You know, we could do aseparate podcast on the
difference, with thesimilarities between coaching
somebody who suffers with aneating disorder and somebody
(16:03):
with substance use disorder,sufferers with an eating
disorder and somebody withsubstance use disorder.
My job and this is what I willsay until the end of time my job
as a coach is to put myself outof the job.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, so really truly , that's to help, it's
strength-based.
So I'm helping the individualbuild their internal recovery
capital and their externalrecovery capital so they can go
out onto the high seas of lifenavigating for themselves.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
word is for this, but is there a specific process or
tool set, toolkit that you kindof walk people through to
educate them as part of thecoaching process?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Such a great question .
Thank you, because we don't.
I mean sure I think sometimesI'm shooting from the hip and
I'm seeing what comes up in themoment, but there is a
methodology.
Okay, I in my professionaltraining have been given
specific tools to use withclients.
Okay, and the book that I'mwriting spells is a stand-in for
(17:18):
me as a coach and takes theindividual through that my
process.
But it's not, it's not minebecause I, it's an amalgamation,
it's like it's.
This pulls from so manydifferent trainings that I've
had and also pulls from thingsum, tools and strategies that I
(17:40):
used personally that worked forme.
So it's I take individuals inthe book, I take them through
that methodology or through thatprocess.
So there are lots of actionableassignments and a lot I mean
listen, everybody's unique.
(18:00):
But having a roadmap and someguardrails to provide some
structure to help people say,okay, how do I get from where I
am to where I want to be, ishelpful.
It's helpful versus how am Iever going to get there?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
The mountain seems too high.
Yeah, yes, is it possible foryou to give us an example, just
to make it really practical forpeople, of what might be part of
the initial step, what might besomething that you actually
help someone do or identify orfigure out as part of the first
step when they are working withyou?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
So the very first step is actually having the
individual share with me what'sbeen working, what's not been
working and what recovery, andif the word recovery is like a
bridge too far, what doeswellness look like for them?
(19:03):
It's not my wellness, it'stheirs, and I'm not here to
dictate or mandate.
That's not what coaching is.
So the very first step is whatdoes recovery or wellness look
like for you?
And then the next question isand how can I help with that
(19:23):
recovery today?
And so, after we have adiscussion and I hear from them
maybe they want to talk aboutsomething in the past, but my
focus as a coach is not it's notthat I won't go there with a
client, but my focus is verymuch present day with an eye
(19:43):
toward the future.
We will then sit and use a toolcalled the Recovery Capital or
Wellness Capital Scale.
I actually ask them about 15 or20 questions we do it together
that are designed to illustrateor illuminate how much internal
(20:04):
and external capital they have,meaning, what resources do they
know about or they don't knowabout?
What have they tried?
What haven't they tried Somepeople like.
One of the questions is do youspend time with people who are
actively engaged in recovery andwellness and some people are
(20:25):
going to score that as a five,like I would score that as a
five because I spend a lot oftime with those people, and then
you would have somebody whowould score one because they're
like I don't know any of thosepeople.
I'm curious, but I don't know.
We actually take the lowestscores.
Those are the ones that I ammost interested in.
(20:47):
That's where we start turningthe dial first Right and that's
where we start making someadjustments and start making
some changes and where I mightstart making some suggestions.
That makes sense.
(21:12):
Actually pause and actually,you know, do go through this so
that they can see for themselveswhere they might want to, like
I said sort of turn the dialfirst and make some adjustments,
yeah, and I would think thatyour clients can really
appreciate the journey that youpersonally have been on.
(21:35):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Right, that makes the best coach.
That's.
The best coach is someone whohas been in their shoes.
Not exactly the same.
It's never the same because, asyou said, everyone's unique.
However, wherever they are intheir journey, you've been there
.
Unless they've been sober for30 years, you haven't gotten
there yet, but otherwise you'vebeen in their place.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, I mean, or I've had somebody else who's, or I
have a very similar experience,right.
Here's what I love aboutcoaching and I share.
I will share my experience whenit's appropriate.
I don't share my story just to,oh my God, well, let me tell
(22:18):
you about.
You know, that's really notbenefiting the individual and so
I quote, self-disclose what Ithink is going to help the
individual right, and when itpertains to something that they
might be struggling with.
I have a lot of female clientswho may not have full-blown
(22:42):
eating disorders, but there'ssome disordered eating.
I'm seeing a huge spike inwomen who are using GLP-1s to
help lose weight, so I mightshare about the struggle I had
with an eating disorder.
I have other clients who havehad sexual trauma and talk about
(23:07):
that and that might come up and, as a trauma informed coach and
from somebody with livedexperience, that might come up
but it's not always appropriate.
I mean I had one male clientwho was a cardiologist and my
talking about sexual abuse andsurviving that trauma.
(23:29):
That's not, it doesn't relate,it doesn't.
No, it's what would beappropriate.
But he was a single dad, Right,and my lived experience and
being sober as a single mom waslike so helpful.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yes, you find the ways that you can connect.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
What sort of trends are you seeing in terms of
people wanting to be sober,curious, alcohol free?
What trends are you seeing interms of people coming to you
with that curiosity?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
So the trend is more and more people are coming right
.
I mean, it used to be on a menuin a restaurant you would see
non-alcoholic beverages.
Menu in a restaurant, you wouldsee non-alcoholic beverages.
It was called non-alcoholicbeverages.
Then it became, like I don'tknow, mocktails, alcohol-free.
(24:29):
And then I was recently inCalifornia and they described
drinks that don't have alcoholspirit-free.
I was like, oh my God.
(24:52):
So why I bring that up is simplyas an illustration that the
idea of not drinking and beingalcohol-free has expanded, has
grown exponentially.
I think there are so manyarticles that are being written
about it and it's across theglobe.
So, and I would also say thatthe WHO coming out last year or
the year before with the reportthat the World Health
Organization that there is nosafe amount of alcohol to drink
(25:16):
right, and all of the healthinformation that is coming more
far forward.
In fact, the country of Irelandstarting in 2026, is going to
put cancer warning labels on allalcoholic beverages because
alcohol is a personage.
I don't think the US is readyfor that yet, but the point
(25:39):
being that more and more peoplehave come to me they wouldn't
identify as an alcoholic or anaddict or someone who has severe
substance use disorder.
Yes, they're sober, curious.
And the work that we dotogether is really the work that
(26:00):
where I spend the bulk of mytime, which is not just symptom
management but it's on growingwellness, and that is what
really supports an individual insustainable results Right,
building a broader and strongerfoundation of wellness.
(26:24):
That is where we begin toreally see that person thrive.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
And I could see how that also.
You're building a way of life,and with that way of life comes
the confidence and the toolsthat someone needs as they
navigate in the world that isnot necessarily alcohol-free,
because I would imagine that isone of the largest challenges
for people who are sober,curious or want to be
(26:53):
alcohol-free is how do you livein a world that is not
necessarily like that?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
That's right, beautiful, you just said it
right, because that's achallenge.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
But I will say I personally know and I was out to
dinner the other day with afriend of mine who's a few years
older than me, butapproximately my age, and she
said it is unbelievable how manypeople she knows now in their
50s and early 60s that don'tdrink anymore and that it's
becoming more and more commonfor a wide variety of reasons,
(27:27):
but overall health happens to beone of them.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yes, and I think it's health and wellness and
longevity.
We're talking about wellnessand talking about and this is in
the book as well and how I wastrained but to look at the eight
dimensions of their lives andtheir health and their wellness.
I would say also that thebeverage companies are doing a
(28:21):
great job of making you knowalcohol-free beverages and a
lifestyle look fun.
I think a lot of people stillare worried or think my God, if
I stop drinking, all the fun'sgoing to stop.
Yeah, it's a big one.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I totally hear.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And especially during the summer months.
I mean, this is like toeverybody.
You know, oh my God, it's likesummer, everybody wants to have
a drink.
You know, frozen rosé, whatever, but they're great.
Non-alcoholic rosés, they'regreat.
Non-alcoholic beers, they'regreat mocktails, they're great
non-alcoholic beers, they'regreat mocktails.
Everybody's having a lot of funexperimenting.
(29:00):
So it's no longer.
I'm sorry, o'doul's, but it'sno longer.
If I want to have anon-alcoholic, I have to drink
an O'Doul's, which just tastesterrible.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah.
So let me ask you a questionabout mindset, and I don't know
the answer to this.
So I'm curious, right, becauseI focus a lot on mindset and
what I do.
Do you help people with theirmindset as part of this recovery
?
And I ask this because I thinkI'm like very many people right,
I love wine I drink a lot lesswine now than I did before, for
(29:32):
sure but it's like oh, I had agreat day, let's celebrate and
have a glass of wine.
Oh, I had a shit day, let'shave a glass of wine, and so
it's like the wine, but it'sthis mindset and it's like you
can justify it, no matter what.
And so I am sure I am speakingand there are many people that
(29:52):
can relate, which is why I'mbringing up the question Do you
help people with how to reframethat thought?
Because, in that way ofthinking, the wine is like the
answer no matter what.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
There's nothing wrong with the thinking right.
I've had a hard day, I want torelax, I want to take the edge
off, or I've had a fantastic,something really exciting
happened and I want to celebrate.
There's nothing that's sonatural and human.
So the question really is whatdo you celebrate with?
Alcohol is or at least for me,I realized was a way to
(30:34):
self-soothe, realized was a wayto self-soothe versus a coping
skill or something that I woulduse for self-care.
So there's a little distinctionthere.
Eating a pint of ice cream isself-soothing.
Eating a portion of ice creamis self-care.
If I feel like having that as atreat, oh, I like that Right.
(30:58):
So I'm making the distinction.
So what I would work on, saywith you as a client, is to ask
you what other things oractivities do you do, or could
you try that help relax yournervous system or bring you
(31:19):
peace, or take the edge off andcome up with four or five, and
then to celebrate what thingsring your chimes, what things
make you feel like you'recelebrating right, and ask you
not to take away that.
(31:40):
We never want to take somethingaway without replacing it.
So the mindset is okay, it'sjust what is the thing or the
activity, and that's where thecoaching would come in.
That's where we would starttrying some other things on for
size.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, it's very interesting because I also think
so much of what we do we do outof natural behavior, and so
I'll use alcohol again as anexample.
Right, I grew up with ahousehold that drank wine while
they cooked, and so it was.
You know, that's part of thatprocess, that's part of that
(32:19):
activity, that's part of thatenjoyment of cooking was the
drinking the wine while you cook.
That is a habit I'll say formyself that I've managed to
break, and, and a lot of that is, is repeatedly doing something
different than that, and youknow so I'll make you know,
cocktails with juice or whatever.
(32:39):
Sometimes I'll put it in a, youknow, in a Cosmo glass or
whatever, a glass of wine.
But I found, if I can getmyself personally out past that
habit stage of it, yes, then thedesire or the craving or the
interest in that substance doesgo down.
Just like if I'm used to havingchocolate as dessert after
dinner, every single day I cravechocolate and it takes a while
(33:06):
to break that.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
You are highlighting something so essential, right?
So some of this is habitual,right.
And then practicing newbehaviors or developing.
I had a client, for instanceand that was so part of her
routine to pour the first glassof wine while she was cooking
(33:28):
and the classical music went onand the whole thing.
It was like a setting, so whatwe worked on together, because
that was a period of time whereshe just felt quote like the
alcohol was calling to her.
She had her partner take overdinner prep and she went and
practiced playing the piano.
Ah, I like that.
(33:49):
So it she had, she we didn't,you know it what she would
didn't just sit alone in a roomand, you know, have a difficult
time not being able to prepdinner.
But that was the change that wemade.
And instead, practicing thepiano, which was something that
she loved in the time went bylike that.
(34:10):
So, developing, working with acoach and I think sometimes it's
so hard when we're on our ownbecause just having that ally,
that advocate, that buddy,that's going to help you.
You know they're your partnerwith that, your accountability
partner.
Yes, if you tell your coach,work on with your coach, okay.
(34:32):
So tonight, instead of doing X,I'm going to do Y.
Okay, so tonight, instead ofdoing X, I'm going to do Y, and
then you're texting with thecoach after you did Y.
That keeps you accountable.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, I can totally see that.
And also I think sometimes it'shard to be brutally honest with
the people that are in ourlives and I find sometimes for
myself it is I tell my coachthings that I don't necessarily
like run right off and tell mypartner immediately.
It's like the first, likereally getting it out there
(35:05):
about my fear or struggle.
A lot of times it actuallystarts with someone else that it
just feels safer and a coachcan play that role.
I know for me it does.
And then after there's I foundfor me it's interesting after
I've then done it it's like ittakes the stigma off of saying
it so I then can go to thepeople who are closer to me and
(35:26):
be like you know, I am sofearful, I have this imposter
syndrome, I have whatever, likeall these things that are going
on because I've alreadyexpressed it and verbalized it
to someone else.
It's a weird thing, it's aweird dynamic, but I think a
coach can play that reallyimportant role in someone's life
and in their journey becauseyou can sometimes share first
(35:47):
and that person normally you'vehired them as a coach because
they can relate to where you arein life.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And there's no judgment right.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
No, but it's a privilege.
You know, jean, it's aprivilege to be a coach, it's a
privilege to be in a person'slife and to be that confidant,
to be that ally.
They may not have the languageyet or they may be worried how
something's going to go over orhow somebody might receive
something.
(36:16):
Maybe they have a therapist,maybe they don't have a
therapist Right, maybe theydon't really have somebody yet
that they feel a family memberor whatever that they can run
things by.
So, as I said, I feel as thoughit's a great privilege and we
get to practice things together,we get to talk about issues or
(36:41):
challenges together, and I thinkthat whenever we share
something that we struggle withwe say it in the rooms of AA
that a problem shared is aproblem halved.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So you're cutting it in half, right, it's just
getting it out and into thelight.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, which is really powerful.
So I have a couple morequestions and then I know we
have to go because I'm taking somuch of your time.
So one thing I'm curious aboutis the age range of people who
come to you.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Oh, my yeah, Well, it's pretty.
It's from 17 years old to 72.
That's what I thought, andthat's my current range.
Right now, my 17-year-old isentering college and is in
eating disorder recovery, okay.
And my 72-year-old justcompleted treatment and she's
(37:41):
just transitioned inpatienttreatment for alcohol use
disorder and she's just cominghome.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Okay, yeah, that's the gamut.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
And so, of course, what's so important, Jean, is
that it's the right fit, andeven it's got to be a chemistry
thing.
You don't have to match cardson every front, but it does have
to be a good fit, and typicallyI meet people either in person
or via Zoom so that we both canfeel what that feels like Right.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Sure, of course, yes, yeah, not everybody lives in
Connecticut that you helpcorrect Right.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
No, I work all over the world.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Yes, I just wanted to make sure, because I know in some
professions you can only do itin certain states and there are
laws about that.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
So, sarah, in the clinical world, right?
So therapists have to belicensed in certain states.
I, as a recovery coach, mycertification is just that, but
it does not preclude me fromworking in any state.
So I work both in person and Ialso work virtually.
(38:51):
I also work as not just a coachbut also as a companion.
So I have a woman who struggleswith compulsive overeating and
she lives in Wichita, kansas.
So I'm going to Wichita for aweek in August and rotating with
another coach living in withher to help model and practice
(39:15):
the, if you will, recovery stepsof a wellness plan and also a
meal plan to help recalibratewhat she's doing.
So the companion work is quiteintense.
That's 24-7, typically livingin with the client.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, that's a lot.
That's a lot.
What do you do for yourself sothat you are not absorbing any
negativity or stress from yourclients, Because they're all
struggling right.
They wouldn't need a recoverywellness coach if they weren't
in a place of some form ofstruggle, growth, development.
So what do you do for yourselfto keep you in your wellness
(39:53):
zone?
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yes, you're right.
As my trauma supervisor, louLabent, says, we are the
scaffolding for our clients'nervous systems.
Yeah it's a lot scaffolding forour clients.
Nervous systems yeah, it's alot.
And so with that means comescertainly not just an important
responsibility, but I'm also theshock absorber for some of
(40:16):
their struggle and what they'regoing through.
So I do a couple of things,several things actually.
So I have a supervisor, right.
So if I am feeling activated ordysregulated or if I am feeling
depleted as a result of work Imay be doing with a client,
right, I'm just a person inrecovery.
(40:37):
I'm not bulletproof yeah, nowI'm going to bring it to my
supervisor.
But I also have a therapist andI also go to recovery support
meetings.
But the fun stuff well, that'snot that it's not fun.
But the other stuff is walking,my dogs, I swim, I love to play
(40:58):
tennis, I pray, I meditate.
Walking is a big outlet for meyeah, me too and also writing.
So my self-care practice hasincreased and developed over the
years as a result of being arecovery coach.
(41:18):
I'm all in on self-care.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
I have to be, you have to be, I love it, which is
why you and I connect on so manylevels.
In that sense, yes, it's soimportant and it's so important.
I have to be, you have to be, Ilove it, which is why you and I
connect on so many levels.
In that sense, yes, it's soimportant and it's so important.
I have to just emphasize thisto everybody who's listening.
It is so important, no matterwhat you're doing in life or
what your job is or what yourrole is, that you have to take
the time to fill your cup andtake care of you, and everything
(41:43):
you're doing is to help peoplewith their overall wellness, and
part of that is helping themrecognize the ways in which they
need to fill themselves andcare for themselves and also
have a confidence that that'sokay and that that's not being
selfish, that it's a requirementto being your best self and to
living your best life is to havea practice of the ways that you
(42:03):
take care of you.
So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
And I'm sure you've heard the analogy within.
It's a little scary, but youknow, your mom, the plane is
going down, your two childrenare sitting next to you.
Your impulse is to put theoxygen masks.
No, the first place you put theoxygen mask is on yourself, so
that you're going to stay, asyou said, that my cup is full,
(42:28):
that's rest, that's sleep,that's nutrition, that's
(42:53):
self-care in all the departments, so I can show up and be able
to have ample resources and alot of patience and you know,
and an ability to be thatlistener and to be that
co-regulator with somebody else.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah, that's a big job.
Thank you for doing it.
Okay, so before we run out oftime, we're going to talk about
books for a minute.
You have a book coming out andthis is like a real book with a
real publisher.
Yeah, I was like I waspublisher.
I was like, wow, that is soimpressive.
6, 2026.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
I'm hoping that we might be able to go get it to
have it be published inSeptember, but that's up to the
(43:53):
powers that be.
I'd love to sync it up withNational Recovery Month.
If that's meant to happen,it'll happen of next year.
But I really have to say I'vealways wanted to write a book,
but I credit my son withprompting me, because he was the
(44:13):
one who said you know, mom, youreally should write a book
about some of this stuff,because, as I was sharing with
him about being a recovery coachand some of the experiences I
was having and people who'vebeen in the most destitute of
circumstances to now be livingtheir lives in this beautiful,
(44:33):
wonderful way I don't takecredit for that that's their
recovery.
So the process started aboutfive years ago and I was on the
beach in Nantucket with my son,my family, other family members
and we were hashing out whatwould it be like to write a book
about being a recovery coach,how would I even start the
(44:59):
process, what would it even looklike?
What could the chapters be like?
So we were having this veryspirited conversation and it was
COVID, so we were really.
I think that just added to theintensity of us being together
because we hadn over.
I see him walking over and thisis actually the preface of the
(45:27):
book and I thought, oh my God,it's the beach police.
He's coming to say we're notsix feet apart, I'm not.
So this gentleman, this completestranger, comes over and he
says I couldn't help it overhere and please forgive me, I
don't mean to eavesdrop, Icouldn't help but overhear.
And please forgive me, I don'tmean to eavesdrop, but whatever
(45:47):
you do, please, please writethis book.
And he said my son, zachary,died of a heroin overdose last
summer and had he had a recoverycoach, he might I still get
goosebumps, he might still behere, wow.
And I looked at him and we allwere moved to tears and I
(46:13):
invited him to tell us a littlebit more about his son.
And he did, and he opened upand the tears came and he told
us that he had a period ofrecovery and then he got engaged
and to celebrate the engagementhe picked up and he didn't make
it.
(46:33):
He overdosed accidentally.
And so I got my marching ordersfrom a complete stranger and I
turned to a friend of mine who'sa literary agent she's a dear
friend from the school I went toin New York City and I said,
(46:54):
jane, do you think this has legs?
Do you think this has any?
You know?
Do you think I could moveforward with this in a
meaningful way?
Move forward with this in ameaningful way.
And she was my ally and shesaid keep going, keep going,
keep going.
And after three and a halfyears of working on the book
(47:15):
proposal, she signed me.
I love it, and she pitched itto multiple publishers and we
were offered a book deal,february this year, that's
amazing Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
That is Thanks.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
I have to say it's been a labor of luck.
It is not for the faint ofheart.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
It is not.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
No, and you've written a book, yes it's not.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
It's not for the faint of heart, but it's a
powerful thing to be able to doit.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
And yours really has the power to help a lot of
people.
So thank you for that.
Yeah, okay, so before we go,obviously we will talk about
your book.
Your book will be linked in theshow notes when it comes out.
We'll link that.
It's coming all of that in theshow notes so that everyone will
know.
But I also like to ask myguests to recommend a book that
has impacted them personally orprofessionally that they think
the listeners should read.
(48:04):
So what book would you like torecommend?
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Well, this is a book that was recommended to me when
I was struggling with somethingand when I say struggling, it
was a relationship, and I wasvery in a lot of emotional pain
about sort of the state of therelationship.
(48:28):
And the book that wasrecommended to me was and I have
it here the four agreements,and it's an it's.
I want to say it's an easy read, it's not heavy, it's not, but
it was so enlightening.
And so the author is don miguelruiz and I loved this book and
(48:51):
especially the second agreement,which is don't take anything
personally so powerful, right,and you know you talk about
internal wellness.
It used to be for me that Iwould be happy.
I think that my happiness wassort of dependent upon the
(49:12):
exterior.
It used to be yeah, you know,used to sort of be dependent
upon external relationships orexternal, and this shifted that
barge, so that I would like tosay that it's helped me become a
safe harbor for myself and thearbiter of my own peace.
(49:34):
Yeah, it's powerful, my innerwellness doesn't depend on
others.
But this book, the FourAgreements, I could read it once
a year and I oftentimes willjust pick it up and just quick
jump into any old chapter andit's just beautiful wisdom?
Speaker 2 (49:52):
I agree it is, and every time I read it I take away
something different because,depending on where you are,
there are lessons and things youcan take away from it anytime
you read it.
So I love that suggestion.
Thank you so much, stephanie.
You are doing such incrediblypowerful work and I thank you.
I learned.
I learned a lot, and I'm sureour listeners learned a lot, and
(50:13):
we will put how everyone canreach out to you if people are
interested in working with you.
We'll put all that in the shownotes.
So I thank you for taking thetime.
I thank you for the work thatyou do.
It's truly from the heart andit's really impactful, and it so
aligns with my mission of justwanting to empower people to
live better lives because it ispossible, you're living proof
and you're there to help.
So thank you so much for beinga guest.
(50:35):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
I really appreciate the time and so appreciate the
conversation.
Jean, you're such a light and Ireally just thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
You are very welcome.
I hope you have a beautiful day.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of the House of
Jermar podcast, where wellnessstarts within.
We appreciate you being a partof our community and hope you
felt inspired and motivated byour guest.
If you enjoyed this episode,please write us a review and
(51:06):
share it with friends.
Building our reach on YouTubeand Apple Podcasts will help us
get closer to our mission toempower 1 million women to live
all in.
You can also follow us onInstagram at House of Jermar and
sign up to be a part of ourmonthly inspiration newsletter
through our website,houseofjermarcom.
If you or someone you knowwould be a good guest on the
(51:28):
show, please reach out to us atpodcast at houseofgermarcom.
This has been a House of Germarproduction with your host, Jean
Collins.
Thank you for joining our house.
A recovery coach is someone who has lived experience
plus professional training, tosupport an individual who is
either curious or strugglingwith substances.
Curious about theirrelationship, maybe wanting to
make a change in theirrelationship.
(00:21):
Maybe, you know, we've heardsober curious.
We've heard about people whoare choosing to be alcohol free.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
But the coach acts as the bridge to help a person get
from where they are to wherethey want to be, which I love
how you define that for me,because I had no idea I'd never
even heard of a recovery coach.
You reached out.
I'm like what is a recoverycoach?
I don't really understand.
Welcome to the House of Germarpodcast, where wellness starts
(00:53):
within.
The House of Germar is alifestyle brand, empowering
women to live all in throughinterior design and personal
wellness.
We are a destination for womenready to reimagine what is
possible in their homes andlives and then create it.
We are honored to have you joinus on our mission to empower 1
(01:13):
million women to live all in.
I am your host, jean Collins,and I invite you to become
inspired by this week's guest.
Welcome to the House of Germarpodcast, where wellness starts
within.
I'm your host, jean Collins,and today's guest.
We are going to talk aboutrecovery.
September is National RecoveryMonth, so we are going to talk
(01:35):
about recovery and I met ourguest, stephanie Hazard.
She lives in my town.
We met for coffee and Ipersonally will say I didn't
even really understand what arecovery coach was and what she
did, and I was so fascinatedwhen I got to meet her about
what she does, how she helpspeople.
Her own personal story is soinspiring and she has a mission
(01:59):
to really help people not onlyfind recovery, maintain recovery
, but also holistic wellness,and I love that.
So, stephanie, welcome to theshow.
Thank you, oh, it's so good tohave you.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yes, I love that.
We're neighbors and we get todo this.
This is fantastic here.
This is right in our ownhometown of New Canaan.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
It's great.
It's great, but yet we alsohave the privilege of touching
people all over the world, whichis a really special gift and
hopefully I got that right.
September is National RecoveryMonth.
Did I say that correctly?
Yes, that's exactly right, yes,All right, so let's start off
with a little bit about yourstory and your journey, about
(02:45):
how you got to where you are,because we also have connections
as single moms.
There's a lot that we have incommon, so if you wouldn't mind
sharing with people what yourjourney was to get to become the
professional that you are inthe recovery space.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
That's.
Yes, it's been a long journey,but it's been the most
worthwhile and the mostwonderful experience that I can
say, Next to actually having myson, the actual birth of my
child, my experience, myrecovery journey truly has been
(03:22):
the biggest gift.
So I got sober, although Ididn't even call it sobriety.
I was only willing to take abreak from drinking alcohol 25
years ago.
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Congratulations.
Let's just stop for one second.
Congratulations, that is huge.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Congratulations.
That is huge Thank you.
And it ties into being a singlemom because I got sober when
Jack, my son, was eight and he'snow 34.
So actually, when I think aboutmy sobriety in those terms, it
sounds like a lot of time.
So I would also say that,because I was a single mom, I
(04:06):
think that sort of raised myawareness.
I had another person who wasdepending upon me and I think we
talk about you may have heardthe term like you have to hit
bottom, or did the person have ahigh bottom or low bottom?
I think that raised the bottomfor me because there were
(04:29):
certain things that I had to doas a single mom that I was
noticing I was having a hardtime doing and that really got
my attention.
Specifically, I could wake upin the morning with a brutal
hangover, still get Jack on thebus, but then, like, literally
crawl my way back into bed andcall in to work sick.
(04:52):
That was a sign that my lifewas becoming unmanageable, right
, and then there were many othersigns.
As I say, I started moving thegoalposts on what was acceptable
and what was unacceptable.
So I got to a place where Iactually felt sort of frightened
(05:14):
.
I was frightened about what Iwas doing.
I was frightened that I hadcravings for alcohol.
I mean, I began.
I'm writing a book aboutrecovery and recovery coaching
and I talk about the undertowthe undertow of this disease.
So I didn't know if I was analcoholic or not, but I can tell
(05:36):
you I was scared that I wasbecoming one.
Alcoholism runs on both sides ofmy family.
My grandmother died ofalcoholism and my grandfather on
my dad's side had severephysical symptoms from alcohol
consumption, as did my ownfather.
(05:56):
In any event, just because it'sin the genes, does that mean
I'm going to become an alcoholic?
No, it's in the genes.
Does that mean I'm going tobecome an alcoholic?
No, but am I maybe predisposed?
Yes, so I had the willingnessto take a break and so the
(06:17):
journey began with that and Ihad a wonderful therapist who
also said to me hey, listen, I'mhappy to meet with you, but the
auntie is no drinking ordrugging.
And I was like very offended bythat.
Yeah, I was what me?
I live in a cute little housein Greenwich, connecticut.
I go to book club, I playedtennis, I'm volunteer, I'm a
(06:39):
good girl, I don't drink or drugand, truth be told, there was a
lot of drinking, a lot ofdrinking than I was doing alone
as well, not in public.
So in any event, she encouragedme to check out some 12-step
meetings.
I had heard of AlcoholicsAnonymous, I had heard of
(07:01):
Al-Anon, and I have to say thatwhen I started going to 12-step
meetings and I began to hearsort of meet myself through
other people and I began to hearmy story from out of the words,
out of the mouths of completestrangers I mean, I'm
identifying with people and whatthey're doing.
(07:23):
Long story short, I decided tostay and you know, I did what I
was asked to do.
I'm a little bit of a peoplepleaser, certainly in recovery
from people pleasing, but itserved me in a good way because
(07:43):
I wanted to, you know, to do thenext right thing, get a sponsor
, follow her guidance, and Iwanted gold stars.
I think my self-esteem was solow at the time that I came in,
but anyway, that was how thebreak turned into a longer break
(08:05):
and a longer break and, like Isaid, now it's been 25 years
that is amazing.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
When in that journey did you decide I want to leave
my corporate America job andmove into actually recovery as a
job?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
So thank you for the question.
I started volunteering forSilver Hill Hospital and I
served on the board of anothernonprofit that's based in
Connecticut that helps peoplewith substance use disorders
it's called Liberation Programs.
So I started working orvolunteering helping other
people outside of my advertisingand marketing biz dev jobs and
(08:54):
I don't know exactly when it was, but that the idea of booking a
new client and receiving acommission and doing it it just
began to ring very hollow.
At the end of the day, workingon behalf of a company selling
(09:15):
something to somebody else, justlost its appeal.
I was, I just I did not feelfulfilled.
But I did feel very fulfilledwhen I was volunteering and
helping other people andactually feeling as the CEO of
that company has a men's house,it's sober living, and I
(09:54):
actually had a meeting with himand I was talking about the idea
of potentially opening up awomen's house and I was kind of
giving him a hard time likeyou've got the guy thing all
figured out.
But what about you know, hello,what are you doing for you know
, women?
And he was great.
He said hey, you know, this issomething in our strategic plan,
(10:17):
but we're not quite there yetto have a sober residence for
women.
So he said but staff, I'd lovefor your involvement and to
include you, but in the meantimeI think you would make a great
coach.
Truly, he planted the seed andhe said there's a training.
It's totally different from12-step work.
(10:39):
And I took the bait and I was alittle skeptical because I had
never heard of the term coaching.
I thought it sounded sort oflike paid sponsorship.
And what I just want to say,jean, is, back then, seven years
ago, almost eight years ago, Ihad never heard of the term
(11:03):
recovery coach.
Years ago I had never heard ofthe term recovery coach.
And when I went for thetraining and I did the training
through the ConnecticutCommunity for Addiction Recovery
, it opened up my eyes to thisnon-clinical support role.
And that is what a recoverycoach is.
A recovery coach is someone whohas lived experience plus
(11:29):
professional training to supportan individual who is either
curious or struggling withsubstances, curious about their
relationship, maybe wanting tomake a change in their
relationship, maybe, you know,we've heard sober curious, we've
heard about people who arechoosing to be alcohol free.
(11:50):
But the coach acts as thebridge to help a person get from
where they are to where theywant to be.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Which I love how you define that for me, because I
had no idea.
I'd never even heard of arecovery coach.
You reached out.
I'm never even heard of arecovery coach, you reached out.
I'm like what is a recoverycoach?
I don't really understand.
Can you explain the role thatyou play as it relates to
connecting the dots with some ofthe others?
So if someone is in AA, forexample, or someone is in Silver
(12:21):
Hill, which is a hospital nearus that helps with this, where
do you come in in connecting thedots between the other programs
that people are involved in andthe ways that you help people?
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Well, the coach can enter the picture at any point
on the continuum of care.
That's what we'll refer to itas.
So there could be someone whois at Silver Hill or another
treatment center and they'regetting ready to discharge home.
The discharge planner, which is, or the therapist that they are
(12:53):
working with the individual intreatment, might suggest adding
a recovery coach to thedischarge treatment plan.
So I might get a call which Ioften do from Silver Hill and
I'm asked to come over and meetwith the client, meet with the
therapist and discuss the roleof coach so that when that
(13:15):
person discharges home andthey're about to re-engage with
their life, their family, maybeeven their job.
I am part of the football team,right, I'm on the team, right,
and so we I like to refer tothat as the care team, right?
So it's an integrated care teamand I'm working maybe with that
(13:39):
person's, as I said, therapistperson's, as I said, therapist.
If they start going to 12-stepmeetings, I might have a
conversation with the sponsor.
That's not mandatory, none ofit's mandatory, but I'm there as
a support.
Beam is that individual's allyand advocate, and I would say a
(14:02):
best practice is when we're allsinging from the same song sheet
.
But maybe there's somebody whohasn't gone to treatment, right,
and so how does that personfind a coach?
Their physician might recommenda coach, their therapist might
recommend a coach.
The coaches typically.
You know, we're meeting withindividuals at least twice a
(14:26):
week and having daily check-ins.
Yeah, that's a lot.
So we are in this person's lifelike we are shoulder to
shoulder with them.
So a lot of folks I mean, ifyou were to say walk into
Recovery Community Center, ifyou were to say walk into
Recovery Community Center, sayyou're up in Bridgeport or
Hartford and you don't have alot of resources recovery
(14:57):
coaches are actually there onthe premises of recovery
community organizations, so youcan find a coach there.
But coaches are in prisons orin emergency rooms.
You can find them, but theytypically, like I said, they can
come into the equation at anypoint in time.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Right.
How long do you typically workwith your clients?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So I'm certified for substance use disorder and also
eating disorders.
So the length of engagement forsubstance use disorder and what
does that even mean?
Somebody who is struggling witha substance so it could be
alcohol, it could be arecreational drug, it could be a
prescription medication butit's at least three to six
(15:40):
months.
Yeah, I would think so, butit's at least three to six
months.
Yeah, I would think so.
And then, as a certified eatingdisorder coach, that engagement
is typically longer.
That's at least six months to ayear.
You know, we could do aseparate podcast on the
difference, with thesimilarities between coaching
somebody who suffers with aneating disorder and somebody
(16:03):
with substance use disorder,sufferers with an eating
disorder and somebody withsubstance use disorder.
My job and this is what I willsay until the end of time my job
as a coach is to put myself outof the job.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, so really truly , that's to help, it's
strength-based.
So I'm helping the individualbuild their internal recovery
capital and their externalrecovery capital so they can go
out onto the high seas of lifenavigating for themselves.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
word is for this, but is there a specific process or
tool set, toolkit that you kindof walk people through to
educate them as part of thecoaching process?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Such a great question .
Thank you, because we don't.
I mean sure I think sometimesI'm shooting from the hip and
I'm seeing what comes up in themoment, but there is a
methodology.
Okay, I in my professionaltraining have been given
specific tools to use withclients.
Okay, and the book that I'mwriting spells is a stand-in for
(17:18):
me as a coach and takes theindividual through that my
process.
But it's not, it's not minebecause I, it's an amalgamation,
it's like it's.
This pulls from so manydifferent trainings that I've
had and also pulls from thingsum, tools and strategies that I
(17:40):
used personally that worked forme.
So it's I take individuals inthe book, I take them through
that methodology or through thatprocess.
So there are lots of actionableassignments and a lot I mean
listen, everybody's unique.
(18:00):
But having a roadmap and someguardrails to provide some
structure to help people say,okay, how do I get from where I
am to where I want to be, ishelpful.
It's helpful versus how am Iever going to get there?
Speaker 2 (18:21):
The mountain seems too high.
Yeah, yes, is it possible foryou to give us an example, just
to make it really practical forpeople, of what might be part of
the initial step, what might besomething that you actually
help someone do or identify orfigure out as part of the first
step when they are working withyou?
Speaker 1 (18:42):
So the very first step is actually having the
individual share with me what'sbeen working, what's not been
working and what recovery, andif the word recovery is like a
bridge too far, what doeswellness look like for them?
(19:03):
It's not my wellness, it'stheirs, and I'm not here to
dictate or mandate.
That's not what coaching is.
So the very first step is whatdoes recovery or wellness look
like for you?
And then the next question isand how can I help with that
(19:23):
recovery today?
And so, after we have adiscussion and I hear from them
maybe they want to talk aboutsomething in the past, but my
focus as a coach is not it's notthat I won't go there with a
client, but my focus is verymuch present day with an eye
(19:43):
toward the future.
We will then sit and use a toolcalled the Recovery Capital or
Wellness Capital Scale.
I actually ask them about 15 or20 questions we do it together
that are designed to illustrateor illuminate how much internal
(20:04):
and external capital they have,meaning, what resources do they
know about or they don't knowabout?
What have they tried?
What haven't they tried Somepeople like.
One of the questions is do youspend time with people who are
actively engaged in recovery andwellness and some people are
(20:25):
going to score that as a five,like I would score that as a
five because I spend a lot oftime with those people, and then
you would have somebody whowould score one because they're
like I don't know any of thosepeople.
I'm curious, but I don't know.
We actually take the lowestscores.
Those are the ones that I ammost interested in.
(20:47):
That's where we start turningthe dial first Right and that's
where we start making someadjustments and start making
some changes and where I mightstart making some suggestions.
That makes sense.
(21:12):
Actually pause and actually,you know, do go through this so
that they can see for themselveswhere they might want to, like
I said sort of turn the dialfirst and make some adjustments,
yeah, and I would think thatyour clients can really
appreciate the journey that youpersonally have been on.
(21:35):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Right, that makes the best coach.
That's.
The best coach is someone whohas been in their shoes.
Not exactly the same.
It's never the same because, asyou said, everyone's unique.
However, wherever they are intheir journey, you've been there
.
Unless they've been sober for30 years, you haven't gotten
there yet, but otherwise you'vebeen in their place.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, I mean, or I've had somebody else who's, or I
have a very similar experience,right.
Here's what I love aboutcoaching and I share.
I will share my experience whenit's appropriate.
I don't share my story just to,oh my God, well, let me tell
(22:18):
you about.
You know, that's really notbenefiting the individual and so
I quote, self-disclose what Ithink is going to help the
individual right, and when itpertains to something that they
might be struggling with.
I have a lot of female clientswho may not have full-blown
(22:42):
eating disorders, but there'ssome disordered eating.
I'm seeing a huge spike inwomen who are using GLP-1s to
help lose weight, so I mightshare about the struggle I had
with an eating disorder.
I have other clients who havehad sexual trauma and talk about
(23:07):
that and that might come up and, as a trauma informed coach and
from somebody with livedexperience, that might come up
but it's not always appropriate.
I mean I had one male clientwho was a cardiologist and my
talking about sexual abuse andsurviving that trauma.
(23:29):
That's not, it doesn't relate,it doesn't.
No, it's what would beappropriate.
But he was a single dad, Right,and my lived experience and
being sober as a single mom waslike so helpful.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yes, you find the ways that you can connect.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
I do yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
What sort of trends are you seeing in terms of
people wanting to be sober,curious, alcohol free?
What trends are you seeing interms of people coming to you
with that curiosity?
Speaker 1 (24:04):
So the trend is more and more people are coming right
.
I mean, it used to be on a menuin a restaurant you would see
non-alcoholic beverages.
Menu in a restaurant, you wouldsee non-alcoholic beverages.
It was called non-alcoholicbeverages.
Then it became, like I don'tknow, mocktails, alcohol-free.
(24:29):
And then I was recently inCalifornia and they described
drinks that don't have alcoholspirit-free.
I was like, oh my God.
(24:52):
So why I bring that up is simplyas an illustration that the
idea of not drinking and beingalcohol-free has expanded, has
grown exponentially.
I think there are so manyarticles that are being written
about it and it's across theglobe.
So, and I would also say thatthe WHO coming out last year or
the year before with the reportthat the World Health
Organization that there is nosafe amount of alcohol to drink
(25:16):
right, and all of the healthinformation that is coming more
far forward.
In fact, the country of Irelandstarting in 2026, is going to
put cancer warning labels on allalcoholic beverages because
alcohol is a personage.
I don't think the US is readyfor that yet, but the point
(25:39):
being that more and more peoplehave come to me they wouldn't
identify as an alcoholic or anaddict or someone who has severe
substance use disorder.
Yes, they're sober, curious.
And the work that we dotogether is really the work that
(26:00):
where I spend the bulk of mytime, which is not just symptom
management but it's on growingwellness, and that is what
really supports an individual insustainable results Right,
building a broader and strongerfoundation of wellness.
(26:24):
That is where we begin toreally see that person thrive.
Sure.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
And I could see how that also.
You're building a way of life,and with that way of life comes
the confidence and the toolsthat someone needs as they
navigate in the world that isnot necessarily alcohol-free,
because I would imagine that isone of the largest challenges
for people who are sober,curious or want to be
(26:53):
alcohol-free is how do you livein a world that is not
necessarily like that?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
That's right, beautiful, you just said it
right, because that's achallenge.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
But I will say I personally know and I was out to
dinner the other day with afriend of mine who's a few years
older than me, butapproximately my age, and she
said it is unbelievable how manypeople she knows now in their
50s and early 60s that don'tdrink anymore and that it's
becoming more and more commonfor a wide variety of reasons,
(27:27):
but overall health happens to beone of them.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yes, and I think it's health and wellness and
longevity.
We're talking about wellnessand talking about and this is in
the book as well and how I wastrained but to look at the eight
dimensions of their lives andtheir health and their wellness.
I would say also that thebeverage companies are doing a
(28:21):
great job of making you knowalcohol-free beverages and a
lifestyle look fun.
I think a lot of people stillare worried or think my God, if
I stop drinking, all the fun'sgoing to stop.
Yeah, it's a big one.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I totally hear.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And especially during the summer months.
I mean, this is like toeverybody.
You know, oh my God, it's likesummer, everybody wants to have
a drink.
You know, frozen rosé, whatever, but they're great.
Non-alcoholic rosés, they'regreat.
Non-alcoholic beers, they'regreat mocktails, they're great
non-alcoholic beers, they'regreat mocktails.
Everybody's having a lot of funexperimenting.
(29:00):
So it's no longer.
I'm sorry, o'doul's, but it'sno longer.
If I want to have anon-alcoholic, I have to drink
an O'Doul's, which just tastesterrible.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah.
So let me ask you a questionabout mindset, and I don't know
the answer to this.
So I'm curious, right, becauseI focus a lot on mindset and
what I do.
Do you help people with theirmindset as part of this recovery
?
And I ask this because I thinkI'm like very many people right,
I love wine I drink a lot lesswine now than I did before, for
(29:32):
sure but it's like oh, I had agreat day, let's celebrate and
have a glass of wine.
Oh, I had a shit day, let'shave a glass of wine, and so
it's like the wine, but it'sthis mindset and it's like you
can justify it, no matter what.
And so I am sure I am speakingand there are many people that
(29:52):
can relate, which is why I'mbringing up the question Do you
help people with how to reframethat thought?
Because, in that way ofthinking, the wine is like the
answer no matter what.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
There's nothing wrong with the thinking right.
I've had a hard day, I want torelax, I want to take the edge
off, or I've had a fantastic,something really exciting
happened and I want to celebrate.
There's nothing that's sonatural and human.
So the question really is whatdo you celebrate with?
Alcohol is or at least for me,I realized was a way to
(30:34):
self-soothe, realized was a wayto self-soothe versus a coping
skill or something that I woulduse for self-care.
So there's a little distinctionthere.
Eating a pint of ice cream isself-soothing.
Eating a portion of ice creamis self-care.
If I feel like having that as atreat, oh, I like that Right.
(30:58):
So I'm making the distinction.
So what I would work on, saywith you as a client, is to ask
you what other things oractivities do you do, or could
you try that help relax yournervous system or bring you
(31:19):
peace, or take the edge off andcome up with four or five, and
then to celebrate what thingsring your chimes, what things
make you feel like you'recelebrating right, and ask you
not to take away that.
(31:40):
We never want to take somethingaway without replacing it.
So the mindset is okay, it'sjust what is the thing or the
activity, and that's where thecoaching would come in.
That's where we would starttrying some other things on for
size.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, it's very interesting because I also think
so much of what we do we do outof natural behavior, and so
I'll use alcohol again as anexample.
Right, I grew up with ahousehold that drank wine while
they cooked, and so it was.
You know, that's part of thatprocess, that's part of that
(32:19):
activity, that's part of thatenjoyment of cooking was the
drinking the wine while you cook.
That is a habit I'll say formyself that I've managed to
break, and, and a lot of that is, is repeatedly doing something
different than that, and youknow so I'll make you know,
cocktails with juice or whatever.
(32:39):
Sometimes I'll put it in a, youknow, in a Cosmo glass or
whatever, a glass of wine.
But I found, if I can getmyself personally out past that
habit stage of it, yes, then thedesire or the craving or the
interest in that substance doesgo down.
Just like if I'm used to havingchocolate as dessert after
dinner, every single day I cravechocolate and it takes a while
(33:06):
to break that.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
You are highlighting something so essential, right?
So some of this is habitual,right.
And then practicing newbehaviors or developing.
I had a client, for instanceand that was so part of her
routine to pour the first glassof wine while she was cooking
(33:28):
and the classical music went onand the whole thing.
It was like a setting, so whatwe worked on together, because
that was a period of time whereshe just felt quote like the
alcohol was calling to her.
She had her partner take overdinner prep and she went and
practiced playing the piano.
Ah, I like that.
(33:49):
So it she had, she we didn't,you know it what she would
didn't just sit alone in a roomand, you know, have a difficult
time not being able to prepdinner.
But that was the change that wemade.
And instead, practicing thepiano, which was something that
she loved in the time went bylike that.
(34:10):
So, developing, working with acoach and I think sometimes it's
so hard when we're on our ownbecause just having that ally,
that advocate, that buddy,that's going to help you.
You know they're your partnerwith that, your accountability
partner.
Yes, if you tell your coach,work on with your coach, okay.
(34:32):
So tonight, instead of doing X,I'm going to do Y.
Okay, so tonight, instead ofdoing X, I'm going to do Y, and
then you're texting with thecoach after you did Y.
That keeps you accountable.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, I can totally see that.
And also I think sometimes it'shard to be brutally honest with
the people that are in ourlives and I find sometimes for
myself it is I tell my coachthings that I don't necessarily
like run right off and tell mypartner immediately.
It's like the first, likereally getting it out there
(35:05):
about my fear or struggle.
A lot of times it actuallystarts with someone else that it
just feels safer and a coachcan play that role.
I know for me it does.
And then after there's I foundfor me it's interesting after
I've then done it it's like ittakes the stigma off of saying
it so I then can go to thepeople who are closer to me and
(35:26):
be like you know, I am sofearful, I have this imposter
syndrome, I have whatever, likeall these things that are going
on because I've alreadyexpressed it and verbalized it
to someone else.
It's a weird thing, it's aweird dynamic, but I think a
coach can play that reallyimportant role in someone's life
and in their journey becauseyou can sometimes share first
(35:47):
and that person normally you'vehired them as a coach because
they can relate to where you arein life.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And there's no judgment right.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
No, but it's a privilege.
You know, jean, it's aprivilege to be a coach, it's a
privilege to be in a person'slife and to be that confidant,
to be that ally.
They may not have the languageyet or they may be worried how
something's going to go over orhow somebody might receive
something.
(36:16):
Maybe they have a therapist,maybe they don't have a
therapist Right, maybe theydon't really have somebody yet
that they feel a family memberor whatever that they can run
things by.
So, as I said, I feel as thoughit's a great privilege and we
get to practice things together,we get to talk about issues or
(36:41):
challenges together, and I thinkthat whenever we share
something that we struggle withwe say it in the rooms of AA
that a problem shared is aproblem halved.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So you're cutting it in half, right, it's just
getting it out and into thelight.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, which is really powerful.
So I have a couple morequestions and then I know we
have to go because I'm taking somuch of your time.
So one thing I'm curious aboutis the age range of people who
come to you.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Oh, my yeah, Well, it's pretty.
It's from 17 years old to 72.
That's what I thought, andthat's my current range.
Right now, my 17-year-old isentering college and is in
eating disorder recovery, okay.
And my 72-year-old justcompleted treatment and she's
(37:41):
just transitioned inpatienttreatment for alcohol use
disorder and she's just cominghome.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Okay, yeah, that's the gamut.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
And so, of course, what's so important, Jean, is
that it's the right fit, andeven it's got to be a chemistry
thing.
You don't have to match cardson every front, but it does have
to be a good fit, and typicallyI meet people either in person
or via Zoom so that we both canfeel what that feels like Right.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Sure, of course, yes, yeah, not everybody lives in
Connecticut that you helpcorrect Right.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
No, I work all over the world.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Yes, I just wanted to make sure, because I know in some
professions you can only do itin certain states and there are
laws about that.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
So, sarah, in the clinical world, right?
So therapists have to belicensed in certain states.
I, as a recovery coach, mycertification is just that, but
it does not preclude me fromworking in any state.
So I work both in person and Ialso work virtually.
(38:51):
I also work as not just a coachbut also as a companion.
So I have a woman who struggleswith compulsive overeating and
she lives in Wichita, kansas.
So I'm going to Wichita for aweek in August and rotating with
another coach living in withher to help model and practice
(39:15):
the, if you will, recovery stepsof a wellness plan and also a
meal plan to help recalibratewhat she's doing.
So the companion work is quiteintense.
That's 24-7, typically livingin with the client.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, that's a lot.
That's a lot.
What do you do for yourself sothat you are not absorbing any
negativity or stress from yourclients, Because they're all
struggling right.
They wouldn't need a recoverywellness coach if they weren't
in a place of some form ofstruggle, growth, development.
So what do you do for yourselfto keep you in your wellness
(39:53):
zone?
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yes, you're right.
As my trauma supervisor, louLabent, says, we are the
scaffolding for our clients'nervous systems.
Yeah it's a lot scaffolding forour clients.
Nervous systems yeah, it's alot.
And so with that means comescertainly not just an important
responsibility, but I'm also theshock absorber for some of
(40:16):
their struggle and what they'regoing through.
So I do a couple of things,several things actually.
So I have a supervisor, right.
So if I am feeling activated ordysregulated or if I am feeling
depleted as a result of work Imay be doing with a client,
right, I'm just a person inrecovery.
(40:37):
I'm not bulletproof yeah, nowI'm going to bring it to my
supervisor.
But I also have a therapist andI also go to recovery support
meetings.
But the fun stuff well, that'snot that it's not fun.
But the other stuff is walking,my dogs, I swim, I love to play
(40:58):
tennis, I pray, I meditate.
Walking is a big outlet for meyeah, me too and also writing.
So my self-care practice hasincreased and developed over the
years as a result of being arecovery coach.
(41:18):
I'm all in on self-care.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
I have to be, you have to be, I love it, which is
why you and I connect on so manylevels.
In that sense, yes, it's soimportant and it's so important.
I have to be, you have to be, Ilove it, which is why you and I
connect on so many levels.
In that sense, yes, it's soimportant and it's so important.
I have to just emphasize thisto everybody who's listening.
It is so important, no matterwhat you're doing in life or
what your job is or what yourrole is, that you have to take
the time to fill your cup andtake care of you, and everything
(41:43):
you're doing is to help peoplewith their overall wellness, and
part of that is helping themrecognize the ways in which they
need to fill themselves andcare for themselves and also
have a confidence that that'sokay and that that's not being
selfish, that it's a requirementto being your best self and to
living your best life is to havea practice of the ways that you
(42:03):
take care of you.
So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
And I'm sure you've heard the analogy within.
It's a little scary, but youknow, your mom, the plane is
going down, your two childrenare sitting next to you.
Your impulse is to put theoxygen masks.
No, the first place you put theoxygen mask is on yourself, so
that you're going to stay, asyou said, that my cup is full,
(42:28):
that's rest, that's sleep,that's nutrition, that's
(42:53):
self-care in all the departments, so I can show up and be able
to have ample resources and alot of patience and you know,
and an ability to be thatlistener and to be that
co-regulator with somebody else.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah, that's a big job.
Thank you for doing it.
Okay, so before we run out oftime, we're going to talk about
books for a minute.
You have a book coming out andthis is like a real book with a
real publisher.
Yeah, I was like I waspublisher.
I was like, wow, that is soimpressive.
6, 2026.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
I'm hoping that we might be able to go get it to
have it be published inSeptember, but that's up to the
(43:53):
powers that be.
I'd love to sync it up withNational Recovery Month.
If that's meant to happen,it'll happen of next year.
But I really have to say I'vealways wanted to write a book,
but I credit my son withprompting me, because he was the
(44:13):
one who said you know, mom, youreally should write a book
about some of this stuff,because, as I was sharing with
him about being a recovery coachand some of the experiences I
was having and people who'vebeen in the most destitute of
circumstances to now be livingtheir lives in this beautiful,
(44:33):
wonderful way I don't takecredit for that that's their
recovery.
So the process started aboutfive years ago and I was on the
beach in Nantucket with my son,my family, other family members
and we were hashing out whatwould it be like to write a book
about being a recovery coach,how would I even start the
(44:59):
process, what would it even looklike?
What could the chapters be like?
So we were having this veryspirited conversation and it was
COVID, so we were really.
I think that just added to theintensity of us being together
because we hadn over.
I see him walking over and thisis actually the preface of the
(45:27):
book and I thought, oh my God,it's the beach police.
He's coming to say we're notsix feet apart, I'm not.
So this gentleman, this completestranger, comes over and he
says I couldn't help it overhere and please forgive me, I
don't mean to eavesdrop, Icouldn't help but overhear.
And please forgive me, I don'tmean to eavesdrop, but whatever
(45:47):
you do, please, please writethis book.
And he said my son, zachary,died of a heroin overdose last
summer and had he had a recoverycoach, he might I still get
goosebumps, he might still behere, wow.
And I looked at him and we allwere moved to tears and I
(46:13):
invited him to tell us a littlebit more about his son.
And he did, and he opened upand the tears came and he told
us that he had a period ofrecovery and then he got engaged
and to celebrate the engagementhe picked up and he didn't make
it.
(46:33):
He overdosed accidentally.
And so I got my marching ordersfrom a complete stranger and I
turned to a friend of mine who'sa literary agent she's a dear
friend from the school I went toin New York City and I said,
(46:54):
jane, do you think this has legs?
Do you think this has any?
You know?
Do you think I could moveforward with this in a
meaningful way?
Move forward with this in ameaningful way.
And she was my ally and shesaid keep going, keep going,
keep going.
And after three and a halfyears of working on the book
(47:15):
proposal, she signed me.
I love it, and she pitched itto multiple publishers and we
were offered a book deal,february this year, that's
amazing Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
That is Thanks.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
I have to say it's been a labor of luck.
It is not for the faint ofheart.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
It is not.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
No, and you've written a book, yes it's not.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
It's not for the faint of heart, but it's a
powerful thing to be able to doit.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
And yours really has the power to help a lot of
people.
So thank you for that.
Yeah, okay, so before we go,obviously we will talk about
your book.
Your book will be linked in theshow notes when it comes out.
We'll link that.
It's coming all of that in theshow notes so that everyone will
know.
But I also like to ask myguests to recommend a book that
has impacted them personally orprofessionally that they think
the listeners should read.
(48:04):
So what book would you like torecommend?
Speaker 1 (48:07):
Well, this is a book that was recommended to me when
I was struggling with somethingand when I say struggling, it
was a relationship, and I wasvery in a lot of emotional pain
about sort of the state of therelationship.
(48:28):
And the book that wasrecommended to me was and I have
it here the four agreements,and it's an it's.
I want to say it's an easy read, it's not heavy, it's not, but
it was so enlightening.
And so the author is don miguelruiz and I loved this book and
(48:51):
especially the second agreement,which is don't take anything
personally so powerful, right,and you know you talk about
internal wellness.
It used to be for me that Iwould be happy.
I think that my happiness wassort of dependent upon the
(49:12):
exterior.
It used to be yeah, you know,used to sort of be dependent
upon external relationships orexternal, and this shifted that
barge, so that I would like tosay that it's helped me become a
safe harbor for myself and thearbiter of my own peace.
(49:34):
Yeah, it's powerful, my innerwellness doesn't depend on
others.
But this book, the FourAgreements, I could read it once
a year and I oftentimes willjust pick it up and just quick
jump into any old chapter andit's just beautiful wisdom?
Speaker 2 (49:52):
I agree it is, and every time I read it I take away
something different because,depending on where you are,
there are lessons and things youcan take away from it anytime
you read it.
So I love that suggestion.
Thank you so much, stephanie.
You are doing such incrediblypowerful work and I thank you.
I learned.
I learned a lot, and I'm sureour listeners learned a lot, and
(50:13):
we will put how everyone canreach out to you if people are
interested in working with you.
We'll put all that in the shownotes.
So I thank you for taking thetime.
I thank you for the work thatyou do.
It's truly from the heart andit's really impactful, and it so
aligns with my mission of justwanting to empower people to
live better lives because it ispossible, you're living proof
and you're there to help.
So thank you so much for beinga guest.
(50:35):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (50:35):
I really appreciate the time and so appreciate the
conversation.
Jean, you're such a light and Ireally just thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
You are very welcome.
I hope you have a beautiful day.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of the House of
Jermar podcast, where wellnessstarts within.
We appreciate you being a partof our community and hope you
felt inspired and motivated byour guest.
If you enjoyed this episode,please write us a review and
(51:06):
share it with friends.
Building our reach on YouTubeand Apple Podcasts will help us
get closer to our mission toempower 1 million women to live
all in.
You can also follow us onInstagram at House of Jermar and
sign up to be a part of ourmonthly inspiration newsletter
through our website,houseofjermarcom.
If you or someone you knowwould be a good guest on the
(51:28):
show, please reach out to us atpodcast at houseofgermarcom.
This has been a House of Germarproduction with your host, Jean
Collins.
Thank you for joining our house.
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